Latest episode of Alex Jones Live from Austin, Texas on the Conspiracy Theories Podcast. Professor David Ray Griffin, expert on the 9/11 inside job, best-selling author, and best selling author will be joining us today to discuss the latest propaganda involved in the cover-up that is unraveling at the seams, busting holes in their fraud is at record levels, and the famous MI5 agent who blew the whistle on, well, government bombings in England, where they would blame it on their political enemies.
00:00:43.000We're going to be live for the next three hours.
00:00:48.000Professor David Ray Griffin, expert on the 9-11 inside job, best-selling author, will be joining us coming up in the third hour to discuss Well, all the latest propaganda involved with the 9-11 cover-up that is unraveling at the seams, busting holes in their fraud is at record levels.
00:01:15.000And the famous MI5 agent who blew the whistle On, well, government bombings in England, where they would carry out bombings, the evidence shows, to blame it on their political enemies, whistleblower David Shaler will be joining us, coming up in the second hour.
00:01:36.000And, folks, he hasn't been doing a lot of interviews, in fact, really any that we can find, since he got out of prison for six months.
00:01:48.000They admit that what he said was true about the government.
00:01:51.000It's just that he's not supposed to violate his secrecy orders and tell the public when the British government is engaging in criminal activities.
00:02:00.000And he's also going to talk about 9-11 with us today.
00:02:03.000He's going to get into how the British government will plant fake news stories to then discredit people that are exposing them.
00:02:13.000They do this over and over again, very similar to Karl Rove putting out fake documents in the midst of a scandal.
00:02:21.000Everything about the scandal is true, but the particular document will be a fake.
00:02:25.000The media will pick up on the fake, ignoring all the other real documents, and then disprove the fake, thus discrediting the whole lot.
00:02:36.000That's why I've been very suspicious, I've said this for the last two weeks, of the Downing Street Memo.
00:02:43.000Last Thursday night on Coast to Coast AM, George Norrie asked me what I thought of the Downing Street Memo, and I said it was extremely suspect.
00:02:53.000That was at the start of the special Fifth Hour that he did.
00:02:57.000And I said, well, we know from other documents and their own admissions that they lied about WMDs, but notice the media doesn't focus in on, say, the Niger Uranium Yellow Cake document.
00:03:09.000No, that gets ignored, but they're focusing on these Downing Street, now 7 Memos.
00:03:16.000One or two of them will probably be fake, and now it looks like that may be the case.
00:03:30.000It's really easy to figure out what they're up to once you know their game.
00:03:35.000Now if you say there's memos that Bush had prior knowledge of, or that Bush lied, or that Bush made stuff up, they'll go, no, no, no, that's a fake.
00:03:43.000You can go, well, I have the document written by Dick Cheney.
00:05:07.000Learn that secret with my new film, Martial Law 9-11 Rise of the Police State.
00:05:12.000Martial Law plumbs the depths of the New World Order's ideology, their philosophy, out of the ashes of the September 11th tragedy.
00:05:19.000A dark empire of war and tyranny has arisen.
00:05:21.000The Constitution has been shredded, and America is now a police state.
00:05:24.000This film exposes not just who was behind the 9-11 attacks, but the roots and history of its orchestrators.
00:05:29.000Martial Law is a blazing spotlight piercing the electronic Berlin Wall of controlled corporate media.
00:05:34.000Plumb the depths of the elite's minds, their ideology, their driving philosophy, and uncover the power-mad cult of death that has sworn to turn the Earth into a prison planet.
00:05:41.000Discover the documentary for yourself before it's too late.
00:05:44.000Call toll-free to get a copy of Martial Law.
00:05:46.0001-888-253-3139 or visit InfoWars.com and the secure shopping cart.
00:05:49.000Or visit Infowars.com and the secure shopping cart.
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00:07:53.000888-216-2461 That's 888-216-2461 Big Brother Mainstream media.
00:08:39.000Second segment, eight minutes, 40 seconds into this first hour. - Club.
00:08:44.000We do have former MI5 agent who blew the whistle on government-sponsored terrorism coming on in the second hour, David Shaler.
00:08:54.000Then in the third hour, Professor David Ray Griffin will also be joining us to talk about the latest developments concerning 9-11 and the ongoing establishment desperate cover-up that is going on.
00:09:13.000oil hit a record above $59 a barrel on Monday, with traders fearing both strong demand and limited supply, pushing most Asian share markets lower, but prompting strong gains in resource shares.
00:09:30.000Traders place the next psychological target for crude at $60 a barrel after a threat on Friday against Western consulates in OPEC member Nigeria jolted a market that already was worried about tight supplies.
00:09:44.000The oil market is on a permanent test.
00:09:48.000Can it keep up with the demand in any one period?
00:09:51.000To the Commonwealth Bank of Australia Commodities Analyst Tobin Gorey.
00:09:56.000Supply is tight and demand is still growing.
00:09:59.000The euro tumbled against the dollar after European Union leaders failed to agree on a budget, deepening a crisis triggered after French and Dutch voters rejected a proposed EU constitution.
00:10:12.000Japan's Nikkei share average fell 0.24% in morning trading, threatening a six-session winning streak.
00:10:20.000MSCI's index of non-Japanese Asian share markets rose 0.1%, supported by Australia's S&P ASX 200, where resource shares jumped.
00:10:31.000Hong Kong's Hang Shing Index was the region's biggest gainer, up 0.27% by 0240 GMT time, while South Korea's Kossipi was the top loser off 0.8%.
00:10:47.000The benchmark at Singapore was down by a fifth, while Taiwan edged up 0.1%.
00:10:53.000Oil sales and scales and new peaks eyes the $60 benchmark.
00:11:00.000Again, they have soared to their all-time high right now, ladies and gentlemen.
00:11:07.00059.18 and right now hours into trading it looks like it may even go higher.
00:11:15.000Just talking about the police state, Army could patrol UK streets, young Britons enjoying Drink-soaked knights out around Britain this summer could soon be in for a shock, a report said late on Saturday.
00:11:31.000Troops patrolling the streets to keep order in an attempt to crack down on alcohol-fuel disorder.
00:11:37.000Dozens of towns around the country will draft in military police to help civilian officers arrest drunken yobs, the Sunday Telegraph reported.
00:11:47.000Home Secretary Charles Clark has ordered the Initiative following an experiment at a town in Hertfordshire, Southern England, where military police were used to patrol the streets late at night.
00:12:06.000We have BBC reports from two years ago where Ukrainian troops in Scotland were pulling families out of cars on rural dirt roads.
00:12:19.000And searching vehicles, families were crying, fathers got mad, violence was even threatened by some of the Scots, normally very peaceful people.
00:12:30.000And then they said, oh, it's just a drill, we apologize.
00:12:56.000Thousands of cameras, thousands of microphones, more going in routinely, federally funded everywhere.
00:13:02.000But we look at England a few years, about three or four years ahead of us with all this police state mechanisms.
00:13:10.000In most areas they're ahead of us, in some they're not.
00:13:14.000Texas barely defeated, thanks to you, the listeners of this broadcast, because the news never picks it up, transponders in all of our inspection stickers that would be used to start taxing us via the radio readers that have already been put up on all the major roads.
00:13:30.000They put those radio readers up five years ago, all over the state.
00:13:35.000I first saw them eight years ago in Houston and San Antonio.
00:13:39.000And they now admit exactly what they are.
00:13:42.000I simply went online many years ago and searched out the companies selling them and found that those indeed were radio frequency readers and now, lo and behold, they're announcing what they've done.
00:13:56.000But with the military, about six years ago, I was given video that we air on the TV show at Fiesta.
00:14:06.000A big party they have in downtown San Antonio every year.
00:14:10.000I've never been, but I hear it's a lot of fun.
00:14:49.000It's all in my new film, Martial Law, where everyone going into the towns, period, the children, the mothers, the fathers, are searched by Alabama Defense Forces, literal goon squads.
00:15:05.000Out there with their armored vehicles and their guns, searching the vehicles.
00:15:11.000We've had special forces training all over the country, urban warfare drills, with the marines, the army, and foreign troops trying to take over our cities.
00:15:21.000And now, all over the country, we're hearing that the military is out helping run DUI checkpoints and quote, searching the vehicles.
00:15:28.000I mean regular army, regular marines, but not on our border, not on your life.
00:15:39.000Is training you to live under martial law.
00:15:41.000Tony Blair has introduced legislation where the people will be arrested in mass and shipped to quote rest and relocation centers in their emergency relocation contingency plan.
00:15:57.000So whatever you're seeing in England is now being done here.
00:16:02.000In fact about two months ago During Mardi Gras, we aired a local newscast that we were given, and this is in one of the weekly TV reports, out of Galveston, Texas, where a regular Army and National Guard teamed up along with the State Guard to shove on citizens, to arrest people with police, They arrest you if you don't have an inspection sticker for any, any reason, you're instantly arrested.
00:16:30.000And it showed the troops yelling and screaming at the citizens, marching down the parade, bugging their eyes out of everyone.
00:16:45.000Ministers have ordered the army onto the streets to join an all-out summer campaign against anti-social behavior and violent behavior by yobs.
00:16:54.000That's a British term for basically drunken teenagers.
00:17:08.000Well, it's like two years ago, one of the most highly decorated RAF fighter pilots of World War II, and this guy had the equivalent of the Congressional Medal of Honor, I forget the name of it, the Royal Cross or something, but it said in the reports that he was like one of the most ten decorated British RAF people, okay?
00:17:28.000They broke it in his house, they beat him up, they broke it in his house over ten times, He finally aimed a toy gun at them and said, get out of here.
00:18:26.000Well, while he was under cancer treatment three years ago, the guy breaks in, is raping his wife, trying to stab her.
00:18:36.000He fights back, she breaks a light over the guy's head, and there were discussions of charging her for hitting him over the head as he's stabbing the Beatle.
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00:22:17.000The stage is being set for the reemergence of gold as a common sense alternative to a fiat paper currency that gets weaker every day.
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00:24:17.000A giant prison is being built for all of us.
00:24:21.000Illegitimate criminal groups have seized control of our western governments, are openly setting up a police state, and they're telling us it's patriotic to not ask questions and to do whatever they say, and to go along with whatever wars they push.
00:25:59.000It's like in the middle of the torture Photos of Abu Ghraib coming out, these photos of Iraqis being urinated on by British troops were released, and then it turned out it was the British government that released those fakes.
00:26:14.000Because there were all these other real photos, they wanted to get out ahead of the story with fakes, then a week later discredit the fakes.
00:26:23.000And they always get caught doing this, but it's in the back of the paper and the average person thinks, oh, they're all fakes then.
00:26:32.000This has all the hallmarks of a sting operation, Paul Watson wrote.
00:26:36.000The Murdoch Papers released the Downing Street Memo story worldwide despite the fact the British government has already admitted that the information in the documents is true and many more which essentially said the same thing were later released.
00:26:48.000This one document was photocopied allowing the mainstream media to raise questions about its authenticity and kill the story.
00:26:55.000Forget the fact that Bush told his own biographer that he wanted to invade Iraq.
00:27:00.000And be a war president back in 99, that's his own biographer.
00:27:03.000Forget the 98 and 2000 PNAC documents which called for removing Hussein as a means of getting a foothold in the Middle East.
00:27:14.000That means Bush never planned to invade Iraq all along and never lied about WMD to justify it.
00:27:19.000He was just an unfortunate victim of misguided intelligence.
00:27:23.000Now the intense activist pressure to get the mainstream media to cover the Downing Street Memo is thrown back in their face, and alternative research is discredited, while the establishment gets another pat on the back.
00:27:34.000It's amazing how they keep employing the same tactic, and people keep falling for it.
00:27:39.000The Pentagon admits multiple cases of Koran abuse in its own reports, but in this one instance Newsweek's source may have been wrong when he said that they flushed it down the toilet, when they only threw it in the toilet and urinated on it.
00:27:53.000This means that any allegations of Koran abuse are null and void.
00:27:57.000This means that Guantanamo Bay really is a nice place to stay, a holiday home, according to Rush Limbaugh.
00:28:03.000The Bush AWOL story was known and admitted for years, but the CBS documents related to the one specific time period of Bush's military service may be forgeries.
00:28:12.000That means the whole story collapses and Bush never went AWOL.
00:28:17.000An investigation by the History Channel includes that 1,000 of thousands of pieces of evidence of Gladio used to prove the world was round is slightly inaccurate.
00:28:34.000An investigation by the History Channel concludes that one of the thousands of pieces of evidence used by Galileo used to prove the world was round is slightly inaccurate.
00:28:44.000Therefore, any further claims of the world being round are now pure conspiracy theory.
00:31:00.000More than 700 chemicals have been found in our drinking water.
00:31:04.000And did you know that you can have greater exposure to these chemicals by taking hot showers than when you drink the water?
00:31:09.000That's because many chemicals are inhaled when they evaporate, and others are absorbed through the skin.
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00:31:32.000Hospitals, restaurants, and water treatment facilities use this media to reduce chlorine, iron, heavy metals, and bacteria.
00:33:49.000Before I get back into the news, though, last week, this week's showing of Martial Law at the Alamo Draft House on South Lamar was sold out.
00:34:01.000It was basically already sold out last Tuesday, or nine days before we were even going to show it.
00:36:03.000Then the extras on the DVD are 25 minutes long.
00:36:06.000So it comes out to a little over 3 hours long.
00:36:10.000But we show 235 minutes in the theatrical release.
00:36:16.000And martial law of 9-1-1, rise of the police state.
00:36:21.000Out of the ashes of September 11th, tragedy of dark empire of war and tyranny has risen.
00:36:25.000The Constitution has been shredded and America is now a police state.
00:36:29.000This film exposes not just who was behind 9-11 attacks, but the roots and history of its orchestrators.
00:36:34.000Learn the terrifying secret that holds the future of the world in its grasp.
00:36:38.000From the front lines of the police state to the darkest sanctums of the secret society that controls it, martial law reveals the master plan of a group hell-bent on capturing America today and tomorrow the world.
00:36:51.000The New World Order has set in motion the Fourth Reich.
00:36:54.000Martial Law is a blazing spotlight piercing the electronic Berlin Wall of controlled corporate media.
00:36:59.000Plumb the depths of the elite's minds, their ideology, their driving philosophy, and uncover the power-mad cult of death that has sworn to turn the Earth into their own prison planet.
00:37:08.000Discover the documented truth for yourself before it's too late.
00:37:54.000Or just write to me, Alex Jones, at 3001, South Lamar, L-A-M-A-R, Suite 100, Austin, Texas, 78704.
00:38:06.000Or go to prisonplanet.tv, and for 15 cents a day we have monthly and yearly subscriptions You can see all 12 of my films, a whole bunch of other documentaries, my weekly TV reports, my best audio interviews, my book, Paul Watson's book, a bunch of other e-books.
00:38:25.000It's the best deal out there, PrisonPlanet.TV.
00:40:17.000It is unconstitutional, and that's a whole other discussion.
00:40:22.000There's complex reasons why it's unconstitutional, but it's also a lot of really simple reasons why it's unconstitutional.
00:40:30.000Why does he say it's unconstitutional?
00:40:33.000Um, you know, I don't remember off the top of my head.
00:40:35.000He didn't really get into that too much, but he just, uh, uh, crunched some numbers and said, if you put in X number of dollars at a simple 5 percent, um, percentage rate, after about, you know, 30, 40 years or so, you should walk away with well over a million dollars, but clearly that doesn't happen with anyone who's getting Social Security.
00:42:56.000But still, it's attached to your lungs, it's attached to your heart, it's making you have heart problems because it's simply grown into some of your nerve endings.
00:43:07.000The doctors look at it and tell you, we really can't cut this thing out.
00:43:19.000That, you see, now they've got us, and so now, it's, oh, let's privatize, which actually, uh, brings you deeper down the slippery slope, because they're gonna run a bunch of different scams with that.
00:43:33.000Now, if they just said, period, that, uh, and I've looked at the different plans, but let's say they said, we're gonna take half the money of young people, and they can invest it anywhere they want, As long as it's a quote, you know, not somebody selling mineshafts or miracle magic health products, then they would still get almost a million dollars.
00:43:58.000And then take the other half their money and put it in for the people that are currently on social security.
00:44:04.000The problem is, social security payments are so much larger compared to what people have paid in, plus you have the problem with what they say doesn't exist.
00:44:15.000Inflation, that it wouldn't even be near the amount to pay people what they're currently getting, and people are living on that!
00:44:37.000They've always wanted a big government that they can use to control the population.
00:44:43.000And the left won't tell you that, and neither will the conservatives, the Rush Limbaugh's of the world, who won't talk about how Bush is for gun control, who won't talk about how Bush is for open borders, who won't talk about how Bush appoints all these pro-abortion judges, who won't talk about Bush signing on to UNESCO.
00:44:57.000No, he'll just say you're a communist if you're against Bush.
00:45:01.000And the poor, pathetic left is against Bush for all the wrong reasons.
00:45:07.000And talk about how the evil Matt Grudge and Limbaugh are attacking Clinton, Hillary hangs out with Rupert Murdoch.
00:46:24.000There was another article out of Eastern Europe where they grabbed this nun who had just become a nun six months ago and they crucified her and killed her.
00:46:58.000It's normally, the devil worshippers are normally the people posing as the preachers.
00:47:03.000Posing as the conservative Christian president.
00:47:06.000But people just can't believe it because of the trappings of goodness.
00:47:13.000And that's why I'm going to cover this article now out of Fox News.
00:47:16.000It's actually Associated Press posted on Fox News.
00:47:20.000Louisiana town stunned by church child sex ring.
00:47:25.000From his storefront next door, Donald Moore got an up close look at the strange changes that went on at the once bustling Hosanna Church.
00:47:34.000For one thing, the congregation had dwindled to a handful of reclusive members who chased away visitors.
00:47:41.000For another, the windows were painted white so no one could see in, and just before it closed its doors, for good a couple years ago, eight dump trucks came in and spread dirt over the church's back lot.
00:47:53.000Last month, these suspicions played out in the way almost no one in this southeastern Louisiana town of 5,000 could have imagined.
00:48:03.000Nine people, including the pastor, his wife, and a sheriff's deputy were accused of engaging in cult-like sexual activity with children and animals inside the hall of worship.
00:48:14.000Eight now face child rape charges that could bring the death penalty.
00:48:20.000You can't believe something like this was going on right under your own feet, and church members have admitted it.
00:48:24.000They were sacrificing, and there's a pentagram inside the church.
00:48:28.000Authorities said witnesses have described the use of robes, Pentagrams on the church floor?
00:48:33.000Well, why not make these people president then?
00:48:36.000Bush goes to a place where they do that.
00:48:45.000Authorities said witnesses have described the use of robes, pentagrams on the church floor, sex with a dog, and the sacrifice of cats, the alleged victims.
00:48:54.000Suspected to number up to two dozen include children ranging from infants to young teens, some of them the offspring of those accused.
00:49:03.000I've been a prosecutor in some rape cases and child molestation cases, but I've never heard of a group accused of doing anything like this said the Tang Phemia I can't pronounce this.
00:49:16.000Parish Sheriff Daniel Edwards, a former state prosecutor.
00:49:20.000Investigators believe the abuse case in 99 and continued until the church closed in 03, but it was not until a woman called from Ohio in April saying she had fled to protect her child.
00:49:31.000The police claim they had even an inkling of what had happened.
00:49:35.000About the same time, the church pastor, 45-year-old Louis Lamponica, Uh, walked into the neighboring Livingston Parish Sheriff's Office, sat down, and according to investigators, named names of detailed activities inside the church.
00:49:50.000Lamb Monica was arrested, followed by eight other authorities, said, uh, and described as central members of the ring.
00:49:58.000All but one are being held without bond, even the tipster from Ohio, Nicole, uh, Bernrad, Was arrested on rape charges along with her ex-husband.
00:50:11.000So you know it's bad when they're even arresting the tipster.
00:50:56.000And they've got a vaccine they want to give you, because they care about you.
00:51:02.000Hey folks, Alex Jones here, announcing the release of my most comprehensive documentary exposing the New World Order's orchestration of the September 11th attacks yet.
00:51:09.000In my new film, The Masters of Terror, we chronicle the globalist master plan for world domination.
00:51:14.000The Masters of Terror details how the elite are using manufactured terrorism to drive the world population into accepting tyranny.
00:51:20.000Witness in horror the execution of the September 11th attacks and the ensuing whitewash.
00:51:25.000Attached was society control grid, infallible microchips, mass mind control, militarization of police, concentration camps, foreign troops massing on U.S.
00:51:32.000soil, the USA Patriot Act, Super Big Brother Total Information Awareness Network, and much, much more.
00:51:37.000It is absolutely vital that everyone see the masses of terror.
00:51:40.000Only by exposing the perpetrators of September 11th can we stop them from carrying out the next wave of attacks and destroying our constitutional republic.
00:51:46.000Order online now at Infowars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling 1-888-253-3139.
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00:53:59.000Coming up, right when we start this next hour, we're going to have David Shaler, member of MI5, former member of MI5, with just unbelievable member of MI5, former member of MI5, with just unbelievable revelations on internal terrorism by the government in England.
00:54:20.000Terrorism obviously involved with the government in 9-11.
00:54:25.000This is going to be a major news-making interview and we're honored to have him coming up.
00:54:42.000I called Paul Watson yesterday, sent him some notes, asked him to write an article about this, and he outdid my greatest expectations of him.
00:54:53.000Rush Limbaugh plumbs new depths of perversion, releases Gitmo t-shirt line, oxy-cotton quaffing bush-worshipping torture apologist Rush Limbaugh has plumbed a new low in both sickness and inaccuracy.
00:55:06.000Limbaugh has been hawking a new line of caps, t-shirts, mugs that depict the Guantanamo Bay detention camp in Cuba as a holiday resort.
00:55:14.000The t-shirt above reads, Your Tropical Retreat from the Stress of Jihad.
00:55:18.000Another reads, I got my free Quran and free prayer rug at Gitmo.
00:55:22.000And another, my moolah and I went to Club Gitmo and all I got was this lousy t-shirt.
00:55:29.000Limbaugh has been promoting the products on his radio show in an attempt to bolster the Bush Administration's recent assertions that Camp X-Ray really is a nice place to stay in the face of its critics calling for the camp's closure.
00:55:42.000Recall that this is the same Rush Limbaugh who last year said, and we have that clip on the website, that Abu Ghraib prison guards were just having a good time and blowing off some steam.
00:55:54.000Army reported to Abu Ghraib list activities that Limbaugh defines as harmless fun, they include breaking chemical lights and pouring a phosphoric liquid on detainees, sodomizing detainees with chemical lights, I can't read some of this.
00:56:09.000Positioning a naked detainee goes on raping children, a male guard having sex with a female detainee, rape, beating detainees to death.
00:56:22.000All of the above are great ways to relax, according to Rush Limbaugh.
00:56:25.000Raping children and beating people to death is a harmless fraternity fun.
00:56:30.000We know from every investigation, government disclosure, prisoner testimony and whistleblower testimony that exactly the same, even worse, procedures are taking place at Guantanamo Bay.
00:56:41.000The Abu Ghraib torture policy was the same one being used previously at Gitmo.
00:56:46.000The policy was called Copper Green and it was masterminded by Donald Rumsfeld.
00:56:50.000Does it sound like a summer holiday camp to you?
00:56:53.000Numerous different detainees have upon their releases confirmed that torture is taking place And that people are routinely beaten to death.
00:57:01.000Been a whole bunch of deaths at Gitmo.
00:57:04.000Oh, but of course those dirty terrorists would say that they hate America.
00:57:42.000And others for trivial things such as not presenting their papers at checkpoints, over freedom, or selling alcohol without a license.
00:57:51.000The Guantanamo prisoners were described by the London Guardian as Pakistani and Afghan farmers, shoemakers and taxi drivers who were forced to fight for the Taliban.
00:58:00.000Most of those people are Stone Age cave dwellers who can't even find America on a map.
00:58:05.000Jamal Al-Harith related how he suffered a brutal attack by U.S.
00:58:08.000military police because he refused to have a mystery injection.
00:58:13.000During the beating, the officers barked in Automated unison.
00:58:26.000Suicide attempts are common and after it was admitted by the Pentagon that there were five and three weeks, the news media mysteriously shut up and stopped talking about it.
00:59:05.000He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
00:59:10.000And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
00:59:16.000Alright, 25 seconds into the second hour of worldwide transmission against tyranny.
00:59:21.000It's not about left or right, it's about right and wrong.
00:59:24.000Understanding who stands to gain from terrorism.
00:59:28.000Looking at the police state grid being built around us.
00:59:32.000I briefly, in the last hour, got into Rush Limbaugh.
00:59:35.000I heard him yesterday saying how wonderful Gitmo is, how it's a vacation place.
00:59:39.000So we just posted all the admissions of torture and everything else on PrisonPlanet.com.
00:59:45.000I hope you'll get this article and get it out to everybody.
00:59:50.000Coming up in the next hour, Professor David Ray Griffin will be joining us to talk about the latest cover-ups on 9-11, and to talk about the great debate we had, myself and of course him, up against a few individuals in Coast to Coast AM last Thursday into Friday morning.
01:00:06.000So that's coming up in the third hour.
01:00:09.000But for this hour, and we will open the phones up in about 30 minutes, I am extremely honored To be joined by a gentleman who went to jail for telling the truth.
01:00:34.000He burst upon the public consciousness in August of 97 with articles in the mail on Sunday about mismanagement and misdeeds at his former employers.
01:00:44.000And it gets into basically the British government being behind terror bombings and so much more.
01:00:51.000And he can also speak about them planning false evidence to then create false leads to then discredit news stories later.
01:01:33.000Well then, I joined MI5 in very peculiar circumstances, because I actually was previously a journalist and a protester, but in the early 1990s there was a recession and no jobs in journalism.
01:01:44.000But I came to apply for an ad that looked like a job in journalism.
01:01:47.000It didn't say it was MI5, it said Godot isn't coming, after a play by Samuel Beckett, and the job it described sounded like a job in journalism about being up with current affairs and being able to write and analyse information.
01:01:58.000So I set off my CV, And during the first interview, they wouldn't tell me what the job was.
01:02:02.000During the second interview, to start with, they wouldn't tell me what the job was.
01:02:05.000And then halfway through, it became apparent it was MI5.
01:02:08.000But I must be the most unlikely person ever to have worked for the British Intelligence Services, because I don't come from the kind of background like James Bond or George Smiley.
01:02:18.000I didn't go to Oxford or Cambridge Universities, which is normally the profile of people who work there.
01:02:23.000And I joined really to stop terrorism.
01:02:25.000I mean, obviously, when I did join, there was an IRA campaign going on in Britain.
01:02:30.000But one of the first things I found was that the services couldn't actually stop terrorism even when they were in possession of information.
01:02:38.000Well, we're going to break here in a moment and come back and have a long segment and plenty of time to talk, but just in a thumbnail sketch, describe your six years with MI5.
01:02:49.000Well, as I say, it was two lots of things.
01:02:51.000They couldn't actually stop terrorist attacks when they were in possession of reliable information.
01:02:55.000But obviously more worryingly, and most worryingly, was I was briefed on an operation carried out by MI6 using a Libyan, within Libya, a member of Libyan military intelligence to try and assassinate Colonel Gaddafi.
01:03:09.000But the member of Libyan intelligence was an associate of Osama bin Laden.
01:03:14.000And MI6 paid tens of thousands of pounds of taxpayers' money to him to try and assassinate Gaddafi.
01:03:21.000That operation failed and innocent people died.
01:03:23.000But the worrying implications of that operation were, of course, if this man had taken power in Libya, we've had an associate, bin Laden, in power in a country which is, of course, oil-rich.
01:03:59.000Learn that secret with my new film, Martial Law 9-11 Rise of the Police State.
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01:05:51.000Yes, there is a choice, a real alternative, when it comes to news and information.
01:05:58.000The GCN Radio Network has become a world leader for those who want to know the truth.
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01:06:50.000From his Central Texas Command Center, deep behind enemy lines, the information war continues.
01:07:01.000It's Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
01:07:04.000Right after 9-11, an Air Force colonel in San Francisco went public detailing inside knowledge and...
01:07:22.000And also the publicly available facts that showed a government inside job concerning September 11th, this foundational event for a total police state takeover.
01:07:35.000We've had Bob Dole's former Chief of Staff on.
01:07:39.000Bob Dole's former Chief of Staff, Stanley Hilton, who sued Bush twice and always gets thrown out for government involvement in 9-11 and he's represented hundreds of the victim's family members.
01:07:52.000We've got Michael Meacher, who was number three in the Blair government, writing the headline, The War on Terror is Bogus, and saying if the government didn't do it, they certainly had total prior knowledge and helped it along.
01:08:03.000We have Andres von Bulow, German Defense Minister, Minister of Technology, going public on this broadcast.
01:08:09.000Another former Minister of Defense has also gone public.
01:08:15.000We've seen George Galloway on this broadcast when I brought up government involvement in 9-11, when I said, couldn't they carry out more terror to attack Iran?
01:08:23.000He said, absolutely, that's a real threat.
01:08:26.000We've got, of course, Mr. Reynolds, going public last week, former Chief Economist, Department of Labor, saying all the evidence points towards an inside job.
01:08:37.000Prominent professors like David Ray Griffin.
01:08:40.000I can't list all of them, ladies and gentlemen.
01:08:42.000General Milton K. Parton has exposed government involvement in Oklahoma City.
01:10:24.000But technically, that shouldn't stop them.
01:10:26.000And in the past, of course, I've been put in prison twice.
01:10:29.000I went to prison once in France when they tried to extradite me.
01:10:32.000And to give you an idea of what this was like, I was at the time trying to get Tony Blair to investigate my evidence about MI6 funding Al-Qaeda in 1996 to assassinate Colonel Gaddafi.
01:10:45.000And of course, because I was trying to approach Tony Blair to do this, The British Intelligence Services didn't want that, so they had me arrested in France and thrown in prison.
01:10:53.000Of course, that story did emerge, but only because the New York Times was brave enough to publish it.
01:10:58.000And once it was published in the New York Times, the British press could actually publish.
01:11:01.000But of course, I wasn't in a position to be able to give my evidence because I was locked up.
01:11:06.000And that is the way they've played this game all the way across.
01:11:08.000They've tried to lock me up, they've tried to take people to court.
01:11:11.000I actually blew the whistle as well about one of the biggest bombs ever to have gone off, the Bishopsgate bomb in London.
01:11:18.000And again, the incompetence of MI5 meant that they didn't stop that, even though they had prior warning of the attack.
01:11:25.000And would you believe the editor of the magazine who published my article was also convicted under this court order, basically.
01:11:33.000So they're using any method they can to try and shut me up.
01:11:37.000Now, I think, in retrospect, the MI6 funding of Al-Qaeda to try and get rid of Gaddafi was the attempt to create an Al-Qaeda state in North Africa, which would be run by associates of Osama Bin Laden.
01:11:49.000And, of course, once we had that situation, it would be an excuse for the UK and the US to invade, as they did in subsequent years, in Iraq.
01:11:57.000I believe that was the start of the kind of efforts of the New World Order to change the Arab world, basically.
01:12:02.000So, back in 1991, You get into MI5 and you're there working for them.
01:12:10.000When did you first start to get inklings of what was really going on?
01:12:14.000Well, I worked in the section that dealt with communists and Trotskyists and so on, which is a bit of a hangover from the Cold War.
01:12:21.000I mean, bearing in mind the Cold War by that time had been finished for two years, these sections still existed.
01:12:26.000And I saw how they manipulated political protest groups, how they penetrated legitimate groups like the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, Uh, and other mainstream political groups in this country.
01:12:39.000Well, are they trying to radicalize and get them to provocateur?
01:12:44.000There was one case in an anarchist group in this country called Class War, which was virtually being run by an agent of the state.
01:12:50.000He was actually a full-time policeman who lived six days as an anarchist and one day as a policeman.
01:12:55.000And he was running class war, essentially.
01:12:57.000Without him, the organization would have been incapable of doing anything at all.
01:13:01.000Yeah, we found that here, too, so... Yeah, so that was the first sort of tip-off that something was wrong.
01:13:07.000When I worked on the IRA desk, I came across other things as well.
01:13:11.000I mean, we've just recently had an inquiry here into Bloody Sunday, the events of 1972, when 13 innocent Catholics were gunned down by the British Army.
01:13:19.000And the British Army tried to lie their way out of it.
01:13:29.000And I had to go on the record again, risking prosecution, to say that the agent who'd claimed this was in fact totally unreliable and known by the services to be what was called a bullshitter.
01:13:41.000Sir, I know that in England you can talk like that, and I understand that RTV does that now too, and I understand that it's from a document, but we can't use that type of language here.
01:14:06.000But yeah, that was the word they used anyway.
01:14:07.000I understand that's a public document and that's something that needs to be discussed, but now, so you're in the Communist desk, then you move to the IRA desk.
01:14:25.000There was almost like an institutional failure to be able to get to grips with the IRA, but when MI5 took over the role for a police service in Britain, And when they did so, they started off by tapping people's phones who were no longer a threat on the basis of false information, and they didn't incorporate the records from this police organisation, so all the investigations were slowed down, and during that period the IRA carried out more frequent attacks than before or since.
01:14:55.000And interestingly as well, when I first moved to the Middle Eastern section, I was handed an operation that was already begun into a journalist who worked for the Guardian newspaper in Britain, She would have done absolutely nothing wrong other than have some money paid into her account.
01:15:08.000It was done through official channels, so there really could be no suspicion.
01:15:11.000But MI5 failed to follow procedure, and again on the basis of inaccuracies obtained a warrant off the government to tap her phone for a year.
01:15:19.000But what was worse was they wanted to go into her house and do what I think in the US would be called a sneak and peek search.
01:15:25.000Uh, where they go in covertly, and they get a warrant to do so off the government, they go in covertly, but as part of that operation, they were going to get this Guardian journalist's daughter arrested on trumped-up charges in the US, would you believe?
01:15:37.000Uh, this is the kind of thing that was going on all the time.
01:15:41.000Back off your phone again, I apologize, I keep giving you all these instructions.
01:15:49.000Essentially yes, and I mean, the thing with the IRA as well, where people were arrested, and people in MI5 knew these people were not guilty.
01:15:57.000And those comments were not passed on to the police, so people were held on remand for a long time.
01:16:02.000These cases were dropped before people went to court, but they should have been stopped a lot earlier.
01:16:06.000They were knowingly innocent people in prison.
01:16:11.000It was kind of just, yeah, police harassment really.
01:16:14.000And the same thing has happened with two Palestinians called Jawed, Botman and Samar Al-Ami who were convicted of conspiracy to cause the attack on the Israeli embassy in Britain in 1994.
01:16:27.000But MI5 didn't disclose two documents which indicated their innocence.
01:16:31.000One document indicated another group had carried out the attack and the other document was the belief of an MI5 officer that the Israelis had actually bombed their own embassy.
01:16:41.000They'd let off a controlled explosion to try and get better security.
01:16:43.000And yet these documents were never shown to the trial judge, let alone the defense.
01:16:50.000Everything we're talking about today is posted.
01:16:53.000London Guardian, London Telegraph, BBC.
01:16:56.000We have a whole MI5 David Shaler section on PrisonPlanet.com.
01:17:02.000And I want now to get into the Omaha bombing and other bombings where we have MI6 actually as the leaders of the bombing groups, ordering people to carry out bombings.
01:17:13.000I mean, we're not just talking about knowing about a bombing and letting it happen, or just funding it.
01:17:18.000I mean, let's get into that right now.
01:17:21.000I don't know enormous amounts about the actual over-half bombing itself, other than the fact that, I mean, certainly they were, again, tipped off beforehand.
01:17:29.000It appears that they, you know, they say they ought to take the blind eye to this already.
01:17:33.000They actually were actively trying to let it happen.
01:17:35.000Well, what about the articles where you have agents in at the highest levels of the groups, they're kneecapping people and they don't carry out attacks?
01:17:43.000I mean, that's, I mean, I've got the articles here in front of me.
01:17:45.000Oh, yes, there was the case of State Knife, in which State Knife, an agent of MI5 and the Army Intelligence, was actually torturing and killing other agents who were bravely risking their lives to report upon the IRA to stop those attacks.
01:18:02.000Now, I mean, that is absolutely unforgivable, it really is.
01:18:05.000Interestingly, when his name was first revealed, the agent State Knife, somebody called, I can't remember his name, Scappatacci, When that first came out, the services tried to pin the blame on me for leaking it to the media, which I didn't do.
01:18:19.000But of course, by doing that again, they were trying to put my life at risk from attack from loyalist terrorist groups.
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01:23:04.000Coming up in the next segment, we'll take some calls for our guest, former MI5 officer, David Shaler.
01:23:12.000And of course his partner, who he's helped write a book with, Spies, Lies and Whistleblowers, Annie Michon, former MI5 herself, is available through Amazon.UK.
01:23:27.000And so you can go over to that Amazon and order the book there if you like.
01:23:32.000I would imagine it's probably available through the USAmazon.com, though I don't know.
01:23:37.000But because of the constraints of time, David, let's just run through it in little condensed versions.
01:23:47.000What happened with using Al-Qaeda to go after Gaddafi, again showing it's a British MI6 connected control group?
01:23:53.000Then into Steak Knife, one of the key cases you uncovered, where the government really is behind bombings and shootings.
01:24:00.000And then let's get into your take on 9-11.
01:24:04.000Well, to talk about the detail of how they actually funded Al-Qaeda in Libya, I mean, the initial approach was made by somebody who they codenamed Tonworth, who serves as a Libyan military intelligence officer.
01:24:16.000He first walked into the British Embassy in Tunis and asked to see an MI6 officer.
01:24:21.000But he made it very clear at the time that he was leading a group of Islamic extremist terrorists.
01:24:27.000But what he said, of course, crucially, is if he took power, he would hand over the two Lockerbie suspects for trial to Britain.
01:24:33.000So that's what interested MI6 to start with.
01:24:36.000But then, around about Christmas 1995, somebody whose name's in the public domain, David Watson, an MI6 officer dealing with Libya, came to see me and told me that they'd been earmarked $40,000 to start with to fund this man, which he gave to Tunworth In about, in January 1996.
01:24:55.000He then made further payments to Tungus.
01:24:58.000We're not sure how many, but we got the impression they were the same sort of amounts again.
01:25:02.000So we could be talking something in the region of about $120,000, $160,000 in all.
01:25:05.000And then I actually saw evidence of the attack from, would you believe, another side.
01:25:12.000I was reading other intelligence reports, and suddenly I read about an attack.
01:25:17.000And of course, because we'd seen the modus operandi that this agent had proposed, The way they were going to carry out the attack had been put in a report prior to the attack, when I saw descriptions of an event in Libya in which Colonel Gaddafi's car was attacked with either a grenade or a bomb, but unfortunately it was a cavalcade of cars, and they got the wrong car, the car they blew up was in fact not Gaddafi's, Gaddafi's bodyguards got him out, but then of course, subsequently innocent people were killed.
01:25:45.000So I saw it from independent sources, I then asked MI6 about this, and they said yes, That was our man, i.e.
01:25:53.000the man they'd been paying the money through to carry out this operation.
01:25:56.000They saw this as a success, even though, of course, they failed to carry out the operation properly by killing Gaddafi, and, of course, innocent people had died.
01:26:04.000And, you know, I was in the service to try and stop terrorism not to become party to terrorist attacks funded by the British government.
01:26:10.000And the example, I guess, of a success for them is striking fear into Gaddafi and also showing they had an active, ready-to-engage group under their control.
01:26:19.000But we see Al-Qaeda against the Russians.
01:26:21.000We see Al-Qaeda in the late 90s against the Serbs.
01:26:26.000Over and over again, we see Al-Qaeda working as clients for Western intelligence.
01:26:33.000I mean, the more I see of this, the more I'm convinced that the problems of the world are created by Uh, particularly MI6 and the CIA by funding groups.
01:26:41.000I mean, the reason that Saddam Hussein was in a position to invade Kuwait in 1991 was because he had been funded and been given weapons by the British and the Americans.
01:26:49.000The same as you're saying with what's been run.
01:26:56.000And if it wasn't, if they weren't actually actively funding these organizations, they were certainly letting them, uh, become more powerful than they were so they could create An environment of fear, and they could go to the government and say, look, we need to have more powers, more restrictions of civil liberties, more powers of arrest and detention, and so on.
01:27:14.000Let's go back, let's go back to Steak Knife, though.
01:27:19.000I've got, like, 30 articles, mainstream plus, I've got a big printout here, where the evidence is clear, MI6 and others are literally, in many cases, leading and funding and commanding terror groups.
01:27:41.000Yeah, it was Army Intelligence, which is a thing called the Forces Research Unit in Northern Ireland.
01:27:47.000And what they were doing, let's say, they had this agent called State Knife Known, his real name was Scappatacci, and what they were doing is they were using him to torture and kill other agents, reporting for, for example, the Royal Austin Constabulary, or reporting to MI5, but also helping those groups carry out attacks on innocent Catholics.
01:28:09.000Well, also, I mean, I've got the articles here, if people refused to carry out bombings, he would kill them.
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01:31:49.000From his Central Texas Command Center, deep behind enemy lines, the information war continues.
01:32:02.000It's Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
01:32:10.000Well, you can hear the interesting sounds of the busy London Park and nearby highways, which kind of adds to the whole effect, but we're really honored to have him joining us.
01:32:22.000He is David Shaler, former MI5, and of course the book's out, with another MI5 agent, spies, lies, and whistleblowers.
01:32:29.000And we're going to be going to your calls here in a little while, but I want to get more into government-sponsored terror in England, then what really happened with Princess Diana, and then his take on 9-11.
01:32:38.000And I'm finding out from, you know, John and Casey and Fred and Emmett and Troy and everybody else, who exactly is calling for David Shaler, because that's who we're going to.
01:32:48.000And coming up next hour, Professor David Ray Griffin, Talk about our debate last Thursday night on Coast to Coast AM and the latest 9-11 developments.
01:32:58.000But going back to David Shaler, David, during the break I said, look, I've got all these articles here and you're the source of a lot of them, you're not the source of a lot of others, but this just bolsters what you're saying about Steak Knife and about IRA and really countless examples.
01:33:16.000of anarchist groups, communist groups, IRA bomber groups, being headed up, being driven, being radicalized by MI6, MI5, Army Intelligence, or groups they're funding.
01:33:29.000And I said clearly that these groups are behind the terrorism, and you had a comment to that.
01:33:46.000Well, the interesting thing about the, say, the, the, the collusion and the, uh, uh, the British state using terrorist groups in Northern Ireland for killing innocent Catholics and so on, um, the problem with that as well is that Tony Blair has helped the cover-up.
01:34:00.000Tony Blair, um, took out court injunctions to stop the media reporting these concerns when somebody blew the whistle.
01:34:06.000He has blocked, so far, all prosecutions which should result from this, of course, because these people They're guilty of conspiracy to murder and conspiracy to cause terrorism.
01:34:15.000They should be going to prison for a very long time.
01:34:17.000The current Prime Minister is doing everything in his power to try and pervert the course of justice and obstruct justice to stop these things coming out properly, basically.
01:34:32.000Well, I think that the reason that the stuff happened with the IRA in Northern Ireland was because the IRA bombed The Conservative government during their conference in 1984 in Brighton in England, and they saw that as a kind of, you know, beyond the usual kind of attacks because members of the cabinet were severely injured and so on.
01:34:54.000And I think as a result of that they ordered a kind of shoot to kill policy.
01:34:58.000And you'll notice as well that, probably we don't mention the book, but we should mention was that in Gibraltar there were three Certainly members of the IRA who should have been arrested were actually just gunned down in cold blood by the SAS, even when they had their hands... And this again was to try and frighten people away from the IRA.
01:35:34.000I mean, we have instances where the government is literally funding the agents who are in control of groups that are carrying out bombings and shootings.
01:35:55.000Yeah, as I say, John Stevens, who was the most senior policeman in Britain at the time, went over, you know, did an extensive inquiry.
01:36:03.000As usual in these circumstances, he was actually attacked in the media.
01:36:06.000You know, MI6 has many friends in the media, has a section called Information Operations, who plant stories about people that they don't like.
01:36:15.000And he got, he had his character trashed and so on, but he stuck to his job.
01:36:21.000And then, of course, his inquiry was burnt down in Northern Ireland in very suspicious circumstances.
01:36:26.000And again, there's been an allegation... That is, physically, his office was firebombed?
01:36:50.000And he's recommended that certain people be prosecuted, including somebody called Brigadier Gordon Kerr, who's a member of the British Army, a member of the 4th Research Unit, who appears to have been the person directing these attacks within the Army.
01:37:07.000Now, as I say, those prosecutions have not happened yet because so far they seem to have been blocked by Tony Blair.
01:37:17.000Any other key areas you want to talk about concerning the IRA before we get into Princess Diana and then 9-11?
01:37:23.000I think we can go on to Princess Diana.
01:37:26.000I mean, one thing I can mention about the service on a very small level was, in one of the operations I was involved in, the services, would you believe, took 12 days to pass on intelligence about an IRA member.
01:37:38.000And in that time, he carried out two bombings, two large-scale bombings against gas terminals in the northeast of England.
01:37:45.000When I tried to point this out to my bosses I was told to shut up and I wrote a brief for government about it because I was so appalled and my boss got hold of the brief before I went out to government and changed the wording of the brief to make it look like the intelligence had arrived after the bombings rather than 12 days beforehand.
01:38:04.000So again, this is what happens, this is how they cover up their tracks when they get things wrong, this is how they misrepresent information to government.
01:38:12.000But, I mean, I would say over and over again, it's like the FBI cooking the bomb and training the drivers in the first World Trade Center bombing, and then when they get caught, oh, they got it wrong.
01:38:20.000I mean, this gives them control, this gives them bigger budgets.
01:38:25.000I mean, this is why I think I say they were so slow to tackle the IRA when I was working that section in 1992.
01:38:32.000It was almost to try to create a climate of fear amongst the public, so that they could then lobby government to introduce more and more restrictive laws, and make it easier to arrest and detain people.
01:39:47.000In fact, we're actually covering things that I have made a point of going to the police and swearing to under oath.
01:39:53.000You know, saying to people, I want to do this under oath.
01:39:56.000I am not just going to give you information.
01:39:57.000I am quite prepared for you to judge my information and to, you know, to say that's how honest I'm being.
01:40:04.000I will swear to under oath so that if I'm lying there's a criminal penalty and you can take me to court.
01:40:09.000But David, I mean, I've seen the different reports.
01:40:11.000Despite all their demonization of you and others, it seems that you're actually quite popular with the British people.
01:40:17.000Well that's right because the British people can see through this kind of thing.
01:40:21.000We had a recent general election and it was a real wake-up call for the government because once they had to go out and knock on people's doors to campaign for support they suddenly realised that people were in Britain massively concerned about these issues in connection with the Iraq war and the The failure of the intelligence services to gather proper intelligence about Iraq.
01:40:40.000Now the reason I want to, and remember to back off your phone sir, the reason I want to talk about Diana is because you guys have covered this, it's been in the news, it's also I believe in the book, that we have these cases of them, if you've got a bunch of documents coming out, they'll then put out this info, that gets picked up, they later get to discredit it, trying to discredit the whole thing, Tell us what really happened in a condensed form with Diana and some of the dirty tricks they played.
01:41:11.000The dirty trick you're talking about is known as the straw man technique, where you set something up to knock it down.
01:41:16.000In this case, shortly after the accident, someone called Oswald Le Winter, who I knew from my time in the service, was an MI6 agent.
01:41:29.000agent of influence, had tried to sell documents to Mr. Al-Fayed for $20 million, indicating that MI6 and the CIA were involved.
01:41:39.000And that's the father of the man that Princess Diane was going to be marrying?
01:41:54.000Uh, the way that technique works is they're encouraging, obviously, to use these documents to prove a conspiracy.
01:42:00.000But of course, as a former officer, I knew those documents were forgeries.
01:42:04.000I could see for about six good reasons why they were not genuine intelligence documents.
01:42:08.000And it was being parroted by media you knew that was disinfo.
01:42:12.000Yeah, so I knew it was disinformation, yes.
01:42:15.000And of course the way that works is Mr. Al-Fayed would go big with those documents, and then of course they would turn around and be able to say the documents were very clearly forgeries, and of course then people think that the whole conspiracy is a lie, basically, and is all an invention, a fabrication.
01:42:33.000Well, it didn't work because I was able to come in with my expertise and say to Mr. Al-Fayed, these documents are forgeries, you're being set up.
01:42:40.000Now, the interesting thing about Oswald Lewinsky, who tried to sell these documents to him, was that I'd come across him putting out misinformation about the Lockerbie case, would you believe?
01:42:49.000I worked on Lockerbie, and in fact, MI6 would try to put out misinformation to blame Iran for Lockerbie, rather than Libya.
01:42:57.000So, the same character is over and over again?
01:43:03.000Same character is over and over again, yeah.
01:43:05.000I mean, I've taken a look at the evidence around the Princess Diana case, and again, there's so much convincing stuff about cars being switched at the last minute, Armory Paul being paid £75,000.
01:43:19.000The camera's being turned off an hour plus to get her to the hospital.
01:43:22.000She said, Charles has told me he's going to kill me in a fake auto accident.
01:43:27.000Exactly, yeah, and this is, at least at the moment, almost very, very belated.
01:43:31.000The police in Britain are now trying to investigate this.
01:43:34.000But, again, the problem is this investigation is taking place 8 years after the events happened.
01:43:41.000Why do you believe that, I mean, clearly the evidence says they killed her.
01:43:46.000Well, I believe there could be a number of reasons, not least because the British Royal Family could not stand the idea of the mother of the future King of England being married to, or having the child, of a Muslim, because the British royal family are quite racist and so on, and I don't think they were prepared to accept that.
01:44:06.000There are other reasons as well, I mean there are theories that in fact Prince William is not the son of Prince Charles, and that of course she knew this.
01:44:17.000And there was a case of a bodyguard to Princess Diana called Barry Manachy, who was alleged to be certainly having an affair with the princess, who died in very suspicious circumstances as well in a car accident.
01:44:29.000And there was also, in this particular accident, the mention of a blinding flashing light again, as happened in the case of Princess Diana.
01:44:37.000We also know Richard Tomlinson, the former MI6 officer, gave evidence to the French judge saying that MI6 were going to use that technique against Slobodan Milosevic in Serbia.
01:44:48.000Yeah, hit the drivers with a blinding burst.
01:44:51.000Yeah, the Russians use that to blind some of our sailors on a ship.
01:44:58.000Now, let's get into 9-11, because I talked to you last week on the phone, and you had some comments about 9-11 from your expertise being inside MI5.
01:45:07.000Yeah, I mean, obviously, when I first started to follow 9-11 in the papers, I was very worried by certain reports emerging.
01:45:17.000Like, for example, obviously, normally, post-incident, there's a forensic investigation of a site.
01:45:22.000It is, in fact, a criminal offense to interfere with a crime scene.
01:45:27.000And yet, in the case of 9-11, all the metal from the buildings is shipped out to China.
01:45:33.000There are no forensications done on that metal.
01:45:36.000Now that, to me, suggests that they never wanted anybody to look at that metal because it was not going to provide the evidence they wanted to show people that it was Al-Qaeda.
01:45:45.000Now the majority of Americans in polls, upwards of 90% of CNN poll, believe government had prior knowledge and consciously failed to act.
01:46:02.000I mean, the more I look at it, you realize that it's not incompetence.
01:46:06.000You realize that there are FBI officers all over the country.
01:46:09.000Colleen Rowley is obviously the one who managed to get a congressional hearing.
01:46:16.000You know, you talked about how you were threatened with arrest and then arrested twice for trying to defend your country from government terrorists and government funding of terrorists.
01:46:25.000But I have the press conference in 2002 with FBI agent Robert Wright, with David Shippers, the impeachment lawyer, and Judicial Watch.
01:46:34.000They all held up letters, they were threatened with arrest if they told the people what they knew, but luckily they'd already been on this broadcast months and months before they were blocked, and said we were ordered specifically not to stop Al-Qaeda.
01:46:48.000So, I mean, the government must be desperate if our own government's threatening to arrest people now.
01:46:55.000Well, exactly, I mean, this is the way the world's going at the moment, isn't it?
01:46:58.000I mean, people who want to tell the truth It's like the Soviet Union.
01:47:02.000You have to face house arrest, you have to face imprisonment possibly, or them carrying out invasive investigations which involve looking at your bank accounts or messing around with your bank accounts and so on.
01:47:14.000Without something else, I know the services do as well as they make illegal financial inquiries in Britain.
01:47:19.000In the case of the Guardian journalist I was telling you about, they access their bank accounts without getting a court order.
01:47:25.000And that again is a crime in this country.
01:47:44.000There was intelligence indicating there were those kind of attacks.
01:47:47.000There were FBI intercepts saying it in the days before the attacks, and I can tell you, when you look at it all, that is a big, big intelligence picture, and yet these people were crucially stopped from doing their jobs, stopped from trying to protect the American people.
01:48:02.000So, you're looking at a situation in which you almost have a coup d'etat, because you've got to bear in mind there were, um, there were weapons discovered on planes that didn't take off on 9-11.
01:48:12.000Now, it's just been obviously postulated that they were going to attack perhaps the White House, Capitol Hill.
01:48:17.000That looks to me like an attempt to destroy American government and declare a state of emergency, in fact a coup d'etat, a violent coup d'etat.
01:48:26.000No, I agree, and it was good agents that the internal criminal cabal didn't control that actually frustrated, it looks like a general from all the evidence we have, disregarded orders to stand down and shot down Flight 93 headed towards the capital for total decapitation of the government.
01:49:34.000And I say, you know, this whole thing, they're just looking for a, they let it happen, well, they made it happen to create a trigger to allow the invasion of Afghanistan, the invasion of Iraq, and of course what they're trying now is to do the same thing with Iran and with Syria.
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01:52:41.000Well, it's clear that we've got to get former MI5 officer David Shaler back on.
01:53:50.000David, I was very curious to know whether, first and foremost, whether or not the average British person's public opinion Or the public opinion in Britain does reflect the corruption of government.
01:54:04.00080% of people believe they killed Diana.
01:54:20.000And they are sharing this information, and there is enormous concern about these things in this country.
01:54:25.000But we are, in some ways, powerless to be able to do anything about it.
01:54:28.000We just recently had a general election, and we know nobody was offering us anything different about the war or about civil liberties, basically.
01:54:36.000Yeah, the Labour and the Tories may have little fights over petty issues, but when it comes down to the brass tacks, they're in agreement.
01:54:46.000Yeah, I mean, Michael Howlett supported the invasion of Iraq, even though many of us in this country are trying to get Tony Blair put on trial in front of the International Criminal Court, because what he did was clearly a war crime.
01:54:59.000They've got the Downing Street memos, and they're saying, oh, something might be fake.
01:55:03.000This is classic, where all this is admitted, the lies, the premeditated nature, but then they might bring in some fake document.
01:55:10.000Well, yeah, I mean, that's the problem, but I mean, you know, there's a clear case against Tony Blair, and I think that perhaps when he resigns as Prime Minister, the International Criminal Court will go after him, because otherwise it sets a dangerous precedent.
01:55:22.000If he's allowed to get away with it, then he's going to be the next kind of Third World dictator who's going to invade somebody's country and get away with it.
01:55:32.000I have one other question for yourself.
01:55:35.000At any point in time in the future, are you willing to make available to your subscribers the source code to your news articles so that we can reproduce it upon the web?
01:56:09.000Well, you know, David mentioned the documents he's seen showing Israeli involvement in bombing their own embassy, and yeah, they told UPI that Sharon will target Americans here without judge or jury and kill us, and Bush had no comment on that.
01:56:26.000Well, the Israeli, Sharon, already has a record of being part of the Stern gang who carried out attacks against British troops when British troops were still in the area about, I think, 30 years ago.
01:56:37.000Um, so there's already a record of Sharon being involved in terrorism, and it doesn't surprise me if he uses terrorism again.
01:56:45.000In the case I was talking about, it's quite clear to me that the Israelis bombed their own embassy, and of course they then framed two innocent Palestinians who have now done ten years in prison for crimes they didn't commit.
01:56:58.000And it wasn't, like I say, that it didn't become public very quickly, but there are other documents available indicating their innocence.
01:59:19.000Okay, is this Larry Silverstein, the owner of Building 7?
01:59:23.000Is he going to spend any time in jail or prison?
01:59:26.000Well, for those that don't know, he owned the entire complex, but owned Building 7 for like 10 years before that.
01:59:32.000And he says that they blew up Building 7, and he will not respond to media phone calls from everybody, and I think they just hope it all goes away.
01:59:42.000Let's ask David Shaler if he's aware of that.
01:59:44.000David, the bizarre collapse of the buildings and the owner saying they blew up Building 7.
01:59:49.000Yeah, I mean, I know that's a matter of public record because I've seen the footage of him saying so, and I think what he's trying to do now is deny that the word pole meant to demolish the building, which, again, is just ludicrous.
02:00:06.000Well, what I've heard is he's now said that he's admitted to saying they pulled the building, but he's now tried to deny that the word pull in that context is demolished.
02:00:36.000Yeah, I mean, I've obviously seen the results of terrorist explosions and so on.
02:00:41.000And, uh, you know, no terrorist explosion has ever brought down a building.
02:00:46.000I mean, when the IRA put something like a thousand tons of homemade explosive in front of the Baltic Exchange Building and Bishop's Gate and let off the bomb.
02:00:54.000Of course, all the glass came out and the building shook a bit, but there was no question about building falling down.
02:00:59.000And it's just, it doesn't abode a lot of physics for buildings to fall down in the way the World Trade Center came down.
02:01:26.000And what I find very suspicious is that obviously after 9-11 there were certain firemen who actually managed to escape.
02:01:32.000We were talking about Explosions in the building.
02:01:35.000And I've talked to them and they've been told to shut up, David.
02:01:38.000Exactly, but what I found even more worrying was, do you remember, I think it was about a month or a week after 9-11, a plane went down in Queens where a lot of those firemen lived.
02:01:48.000And so a whole lot of the firemen who'd escaped 9-11 were actually killed then, and you wonder if that was a way of effectively silencing them.
02:01:56.000David Shaler, anything else you want to say in closing?
02:02:00.000Thank you very much for having me on the program, and I obviously lead a very difficult life because I'm persecuted by the British government who tried to blacklist me and stop me from earning a living.
02:02:09.000So if people could buy my book, I'd be very grateful because it means that I can carry on the good fight.
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02:05:46.000He's the T-Rex of political talk, Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
02:05:53.000Alright, we've got about 50 minutes of broadcast left and about 40 of that Of that 40 or 50 minutes of broadcast, about 40 minutes of it will be time that we have with our guest.
02:06:08.000Again, we're into the third hour, 8 minutes and 25 seconds into the third hour of this Monday, June 20, 2005 edition.
02:06:16.000I wanted to get into Rush Limbaugh saying that there's no torture going on.
02:06:19.000They're having a great time at Guantanamo Bay.
02:06:21.000Just like he said, it's a great time at Gitmo.
02:06:24.000We've written a detailed article He's debunking all of this and he's now selling t-shirts about how great this Gulag concentration camp high-tech torture facility is.
02:06:59.000And of course the new Omissions and Deceptions report.
02:07:01.000He's got a new report out detailing hundreds of their lies since the last time he was on with us a few months ago.
02:07:08.000I got him on because I know he was probably frustrated last Thursday night Friday morning, bearing on coast-to-coast AM with those other two guys, especially Lance, it was amazing.
02:07:21.000Though Norrie did a pretty good job, and I appreciate Norrie having the debate, I know that our gentlemanly scholar was not one to behave like a piranha, like I did, and get in there at the feeding trough to expose the New World Order.
02:07:35.000Uh, but he tried to get his information out, but, uh, so he can go over some of the points he was unable to discuss.
02:07:41.000Uh, we are here joined by, uh, David Ray Griffin.
02:07:43.000Uh, David, we just had, uh, David Shiler on the MI5 whistleblower exposing government-sponsored terror, and he agrees that 9-11 looks like an inside job, so seems like anybody and everybody who's got two brain cells rubbed together agrees with us.
02:07:59.000Well, we're not quite there yet, but certainly it looks like things are changing at least a little bit more than they were just a few months ago.
02:08:10.000Well, preceding us Thursday night, they had Mr. Reynolds on, the former high-level Bush advisor.
02:08:19.000Yeah, it's quite interesting that if somebody who can be portrayed as an insider says something why a little bit of the world pays attention so at least the UPI and the Washington Times picked this up and also an organization M.E.R.
02:08:41.000Middle East Review said on the basis of the Reynolds article they were now calling for a full-scale media investigation so it's got the potential To be a kind of breakthrough article.
02:08:57.000I mean, it's very different than the Wall Street, than the Downing Street memo, of course, but coming at about the same time, it might turn out to have a similar effect.
02:09:07.000Well, we've shot down so many of their walls and defenses and prepared the ground that as more people defect, the globalists are going to have a problem.
02:09:20.000It is going to get harder and harder and with, you know, the polls down for approval in Iraq, they're going to have to work harder to sell that story and maybe a few of the news people now will start to become a little more skeptical and actually maybe ask a follow-up question like when Bush and Blair were being interviewed about the Downing Street memo
02:09:48.000I mean, you've got it there in black and white, that according to the head of British intelligence, the people in Washington, and he had been talking to George Tenet, said the intelligence was being fixed around the policy, that is, the policy of going to war with Iraq.
02:10:07.000And one fellow finally asked Bush and Blair about that, and they both just said, you know, Bush said, nothing could be further from the truth, and Blair said, Oh no, the intelligence was not being fixed around policy.
02:10:23.000In other words, both of them just said, black is white.
02:10:30.000But maybe now, as the war gets increasingly unpopular, maybe they'll get emboldened, and maybe that increased boldness will spill over into 9-11.
02:10:46.000I mean, I'm not holding my breath yet, but I think it's at least possible.
02:10:50.000Well, 9-11 is the foundational event, as you and others have said, and this is what they're building their whole house of cards on, and it is a sandy area they've decided to construct their additional prods on.
02:11:03.000The problem is, is that when you've got all the official Air National Guard documents that come out, the official ones, not debatable, saying Bush went AWOL, They then bring out a fake one.
02:11:34.000But then they, it looks like, are sneaking more fake documents in to then discredit those and thus try to discredit the whole argument.
02:11:42.000That would seem to be a quite strong possibility.
02:11:47.000You know, to refer to the debate the other night, and connected to the point you just made about the difficulty of making the case, when people really, if they will start really looking at the official story, and the lengths to which people have to go to defend it,
02:12:09.000Then it becomes apparent rather quickly that either the people who are defending it don't know what they're talking about or they're saying things that are patently false.
02:12:20.000Let's take two examples of things said by my friend Peter Lance the other night.
02:12:27.000He claimed that it would be ridiculous to think that people could have got into the World Trade Center to wire the buildings, or then in the last minute, the last week, fix the explosives, because John O'Neill was in charge of security for the World Trade Center.
02:12:49.000His first day at work was September 11th, and I never got to say that!
02:12:53.000And I didn't either, you know, we were near the end of the program, and you always have to take the choice, do you want to Bring up the point you want to bring up, which is new information, or do you want to rebut what somebody else says and then they're going to jump back in and you lose your time?
02:13:09.000Well, you know, I wrote a note on that and then forgot to ever get back to it because he'd throw out so much, and then he said, oh, they clearly blew up seven, but that's no big deal.
02:13:19.000Yeah, so to say that John O'Neill on the first day of work could have retroactively prevented So, I mean, here's a case where Peter is a very bright guy and has done a lot of research related to 9-11, but he simply didn't know that that was the first day of work.
02:13:38.000And so, that's the kind of response you get.
02:13:41.000What about how he laughed at shadow government?
02:13:43.000I mean, everybody admits they're constructing a system to take over the government.
02:13:47.000They passed the doomsday bill in January.
02:13:52.000Yeah, well, you know, everybody, we're all human, and we all get attached to our own theories, and we don't want a theory that's going to reduce the importance of our theory.
02:14:17.000Yeah, let's take the other example then that Peter Lantz used.
02:14:23.000He just accepted this preliminary NIST report, the report by the National Institute of Standards and Technology, that said, well, the towers would have come down obviously because the That when the airplanes hit, they would have knocked the fireproofing off of the steel.
02:14:57.000And so I wanted to ask Peter, you know, if we'd had time, I wanted to say, well, you know, If you've got a steel grate in your fireplace and you're burning logs in there, why, you better get some fireproofing on that steel or, you know, it's going to melt.
02:15:12.000And, you know, it's so obvious to us that steel does not melt from ordinary hydrocarbon fires.
02:15:19.000And yet, if NIST comes out and says, well, that's what happened, the fireproofing got knocked off, and therefore, you know, that's such an enormous therefore when you think about The miles of steel that were in that building, and steel is an excellent conductor of energy, and these were huge steel columns up the middle and also pretty big steel beams horizontally,
02:15:47.000Now there were some trusses, too, but there were steel beams.
02:15:51.000Yeah, they focus on the small trusses as if that has anything to do with the main superstructure.
02:15:56.000Yeah, and also, you know, the idea that those rather small fires that in Tower No.
02:16:06.0002, the South Tower, had been burning only 56 minutes, Because we've had, as you've talked about on your show many times, you've had all these fires, like the Philadelphia fire of 91, Madrid fire of this year, where the fire was really raging throughout most of the building, and Philadelphia I believe was 19 hours, and still the building did not collapse.
02:16:33.000It, you know, maybe a little of the steel might have stagged a little.
02:17:03.000Well, white would be the, white would be hotter, yeah.
02:17:07.000That would, you know, you need this acetylene torch where you get a high mixture of oxygen to produce fires that are hot enough to begin to make steel melt.
02:17:20.000So, but it just shows the power of the will to believe.
02:17:24.000If you want to believe something, you will grasp at the straws and find them credible.
02:17:29.000Well, isn't the official story almost like a religion?
02:17:34.000Well, I think that's a good analogy because, you know, people think of, when they think of the will to believe, they think of religious dogma.
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02:22:35.000But a conspiracy is just two or more people getting together to engage in some activity that they don't want anybody else to know about.
02:22:44.000That's just business strategies, anything.
02:22:46.000You can call anything a conspiracy, but who has the motive for 9-11?
02:22:49.000David, we've got about 35 minutes or so left here.
02:22:53.000Later, I'm going to take a few calls, but that's near the end.
02:22:56.000I know there's probably a lot you want to talk about, Professor David Ray Griffin, but briefly, back to that debate, it would blow me away.
02:23:02.000They'd play a clip Of the informants and FBI people arguing about how the government cooked the bomb and was going to let the bombing go forward of the World Trade Center, and then that was their evidence that the government wasn't involved?
02:23:16.000I mean, this was really bizarre what we were getting from the people we were debating.
02:23:23.000Well, yeah, I mean, there were many bizarre elements.
02:23:28.000It's, as I say, it's back to the, I think, the issue of the will to believe and also people get their own pet theories.
02:23:37.000So, like for Peter, it's very important.
02:23:40.000He's put a lot of work, you know, years researching Al-Qaeda.
02:23:45.000So the thought that Al-Qaeda isn't as important as he thought it is, you know, would be a very frightening thought.
02:23:53.000And likewise, Mike Levine has his own theories that about how it's always government incompetent and certainly there's an enormous amount of competence in the government as there is in everything.
02:24:05.000You know I've been on faculties and if you've been in a faculty meeting you learn about incompetence from otherwise very bright people.
02:24:16.000So there's incompetence all around but to say that to turn that into a universal And say there are no genuine conspiracies by the government because these people are too incompetent.
02:24:29.000Well, that's a gross generalization and confuses, you know, people at a certain level with other people.
02:24:36.000The people who would have planned this would have been, in terms of operations, you'd be talking about the people at the Pentagon.
02:24:45.000You'd be talking about perhaps very high-level people in intelligence agencies.
02:24:53.000And also these private groups, the defense contractors themselves that carry out a lot of operations on their own.
02:24:59.000Yeah, and there are lots of things that go off pretty well.
02:25:03.000If we talk about the attack, the initial attack on Iraq, Uh, you know, that was a well done operation.
02:25:12.000Yeah, we got people that put space shuttles into space.
02:25:14.000We got people that create fish infusion bombs.
02:25:20.000So I guess they're just all a bunch of incompetent, drooling, uh, idiots.
02:25:23.000But, but, you know, uh, Professor, going back three and a half years ago, you were a kook if you said prior knowledge.
02:25:29.000Now everyone admits prior knowledge in that they quote, funded the terrorists, but it was all on accident.
02:25:34.000So the mere fact that we push them, even those that we debate, to, oh, it's incompetence, shows who's winning the fight for the minds and hearts of people.
02:25:45.000Let me move to this question that you brought up of conspiracy theories, because that's still the bugaboo, you know, that people simply are frightened with being associated with a conspiracy theory.
02:25:59.000They've drummed that into the American mind so thoroughly, That conspiracy theories are all, you know, kooky.
02:26:10.000But the issue is, you know, you've got in science, you've got all sorts of theories.
02:26:15.000You know, plate tectonics was originally a far out theory under the name of continental shift.
02:26:22.000And now everything that's done in terms of earthquake predictions and so on is based on plate tectonics.
02:26:29.000When Einstein developed his theory of relativity, why, that was just thought, you know, impossible.
02:26:37.000And on down the way, of course you've had a lot of theories that have been disconfirmed.
02:26:42.000So that shows you can't just say because something's a theory, Um, you know, either accept it or reject it.
02:26:49.000You have to look at each one in terms of its own merit.
02:26:52.000But as we study 9-11, you'd have to be a wild-eyed conspiracy theorist, you know, believing in things that the evidence doesn't show if you think the official story is true.
02:27:02.000Yeah, so let's, uh, why don't we look at the, uh, the collapse of the buildings and just to illustrate that.
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02:30:36.000nineteen ninety five the g_c_n_ live dot com or call toll three eight seven seven three hundred seventy six forty five this show is documented Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
02:30:59.000Folks, reality is not inside your head.
02:31:19.000Well, regardless of what you believe, the facts are still the facts.
02:31:22.000Let me just say this before we go to David Ray Griffin and then we'll go to your calls after he has some more time to go over the evidence.
02:31:30.000You know that somebody on a dialysis machine in a cave didn't have NORAD stand down, didn't do war games of flying planes in the buildings that morning.
02:32:57.000And then we say, well, we don't want to believe this, let's look at the evidence.
02:33:00.000And then you look at the evidence, only one country, and other governments have looked at this, only one country, forget somebody in a cave, only one country could pull this off in America.
02:33:13.000Now, if you want to learn the truth, go to InfoWars.com or PrisonPlanet.com and get Martial Law, my new film.
02:34:27.000David Ray Griffin, before we get into the collapse of the buildings, which my audience knows all about, and before we get into a few other questions I've got for you before calls, tell us about your two great books.
02:34:41.000Well, the first book, The New Pearl Harbor, disturbing questions about the Bush administration in 9-11, It was simply a summary, for the most part, of the work that people such as you and many others who got in far before I did had already done.
02:35:02.000And I just saw a need to put it together in some sort of organized and fairly compact and readable form.
02:35:09.000And you don't draw conclusions, you go, here's the facts!
02:35:12.000Yeah, I certainly draw the conclusion that there is an enormous amount of prima facie evidence that the official story is wrong and that if the government is lying about the official story then that certainly suggests the government is complicit.
02:35:35.000But in that book I simply was calling for a real investigation.
02:35:41.000Now remember that I was writing that book before the 9-11 report had had uh... come out and now for ten months we've had this travesty yeah but then when i thought the uh... the nine eleven report and i i knew by the way that uh... the nine eleven commission had uh... had seen my book because many people had been it to them uh...
02:36:06.000it even happened that at my school bookstore some people came in and said well we work for the nine eleven commission and we're looking for copies of uh... david christian book Well, they've been questioned about it.
02:36:18.000One of them, I think, Hamilton, admitted he's heard of it.
02:36:21.000Yeah, well, actually, a nun friend of his, an old-time friend, called him up and said, Lee, we've got a book here you and your colleagues need to read, and a colleague of mine is going to fly it on a red-eye tonight to And bring it to your office.
02:36:38.000So he knew it was coming and this colleague did indeed.
02:36:44.000Take 12 copies to the Commission and put them in Hamilton's office, gave them to his secretary and said, these are for the Commission.
02:36:51.000And that's a whole other discussion, what the Commission did.
02:36:54.000In fact, as an addendum to your new book, the 9-11 Omissions and Deceptions Report, but also you've written another addendum to that, right?
02:37:03.000Well, I've written a little article in which I've summarized, because people had asked me, You know, you say the 9-11 Commission Report, omissions and distortions, well how many, assuming that the omissions, you know, that's one kind of lie, lies of omission and then lies of distortion, how many lies did you find?
02:37:23.000And I, well I don't know, there are a whole bunch, so I went through and Worked it out and summarized them, and I had identified 115 things that I thought were lies.
02:37:33.000And give folks the title of that article so they can Google it.
02:37:37.000Yeah, it's just called the 9-11 Commission Report, a 571-page lie.
02:37:44.000Okay, and people can find your two books, and most bookstores are at Amazon.com or through your publisher.
02:37:48.000Give us the publisher, and then I want to get into some more discussion, because we're almost out of time.
02:37:53.000Yeah, the Interlink Books is the publisher.
02:38:01.000But now, during the break, I said, hey, I want you to answer this question.
02:38:06.000Clearly, you believe it's number four, total complicity involvement, all the evidence goes that direction, but why did these controllers think they would get away with this?
02:38:14.000I mean, let's try to war game their mindset.
02:38:17.000I mean, we know Brzezinski, we know that Cheney, we know others said we need this attack, but why did they think they could get away with something like this?
02:38:26.000Well, I think maybe three major factors, at least.
02:38:31.000One is simply that they They know that the major media favor, in general, the expansion of the American empire.
02:38:42.000Do you think they were underestimating the margining alternative media?
02:38:47.000Well, I don't know, but it does remain a fact that it's still only a fairly small percentage of the people who know about this, and even though it's a growing minority, It's hard for this to get traction because there's, you know, there's no public forum for these things to be discussed.
02:39:10.000Like, we can't get on Fox News and communicate with millions of Americans, tens of millions of Americans, simultaneously.
02:39:21.000I think they knew that the major media would, for the most part, simply parrot the official story and ridicule the any conspiracy theory that developed likewise a factor in this is that they knew that from previous experience this would be the case so if you look at the Kennedy assassination for example Even though now, the proof is in.
02:39:48.000I mean, we're talking about absolute proof.
02:39:51.000Eyewitnesses, people that were, yeah, you know, they said they did it, yeah.
02:39:54.000Yeah, well, yeah, and it's just so extensive.
02:39:56.000The medical evidence and all of this, you know, it's summarized in recent books by, edited by James Fetzer.
02:40:04.000Well, I mean, I've even had the press secretary's father, the personal lawyer of LBJ on.
02:40:13.000But still, you don't get any discussion of this in the media, you know, these many decades later.
02:40:19.000So they still ridicule the Grassy Knoll crowd, you know, anybody who rejects the Warren Commission and thinks there were shooters at the Grassy Knoll, even though it's absolutely proved now that there were.
02:40:32.000So I think it's the past history of the media, plus the fact that That they have people at certain levels in the media who will stop certain stories from going forward.
02:40:45.000David Scheindler, MI5, called them agents of influence.
02:40:48.000I mean, intelligence officers are everywhere in the media.
02:40:51.000And I think a third factor then is the phenomenon of the big lie.
02:40:55.000That it's such a big operation and such a big lie that for many people that just settles it a priori because You know, of course, that was a Nazi theory, that if you tell people a really big lie, it's just so big they say it can't possibly be true.
02:41:15.000They wouldn't think of doing such a thing.
02:41:19.000And so they could count on an enormous crime.
02:41:24.000You know, and I was that way the first year and a half.
02:41:28.000I would hear these rumors that the government did it.
02:41:32.000And I would think, well, even the Bush administration wouldn't do this.
02:41:37.000And, you know, I knew about Pearl Harbor.
02:41:54.000Well, we've got to think about the people they killed, and they deserve the truth to come out.
02:42:00.000Let's get into just three or four of the key things that can be proven are total frauds, and then let's take some calls.
02:42:06.000Well yeah, if we just look, you say your listeners know about it, but let's just summarize that we can take Morgan Reynolds' article in which he summarizes ten characteristics of controlled demolition and these collapses have all ten of them.
02:42:26.000So first of all, virtually free fall speed, that's what controlled demolition does.
02:42:31.000And even if fire could bring down a building, it couldn't bring it down in, say, 10 seconds.
02:42:39.000Again, that's the whole purpose of controlled demolition.
02:42:43.000Placing the explosives very precisely.
02:42:47.000So the buildings don't fall down sideways.
02:42:50.000This is rocket science level to be able to have them, like building 7, fall in a neat pile.
02:42:55.000Oh yeah, you know, Mark LeRoux, the head of Control Demolition, Inc., he has an interview in a recent New Scientist in which he describes how he goes in and he studies it for months on end and is very careful, you know, and then has films of it to make sure that everything went off just in the proper order.
02:43:16.000So it's a very precise science and you can't, you know, even if you could bring down a building with fire you could not count on it coming straight down.
02:43:26.000Well a lot of times these companies plant it for months and still it doesn't fall exactly right.
02:43:32.000A third factor, the concrete was pulverized into tiny, very tiny dust particles and Jim Hoffman has done an analysis of the amount of energy this would take And he's shown that it would take at least a hundred times the amount of energy that gravity could have provided.
02:43:53.000And yet the official story is that gravity brought the buildings down once, you know, the fire weakened them.
02:44:00.000And they just ignore the fact that there was not anywhere close to the amount of energy that would have required to pulverize the concrete.
02:44:09.000And then fourth, the The debris, not only this dust from the pulverized concrete, but steel and aluminum pieces were blown out from the building several hundred feet.
02:44:42.000And then the total collapse of the building, the thing that I keep coming back to, because it's one of the big lies of the 9-11 Commission Report.
02:44:51.000I think I've said this before on your show, but it bears repeating.
02:44:55.000That those 47 massive tower columns that constituted the core, the inner core of each tower, even if one could bring themselves to believe the pancake theory, that the floors pancake down, you still would have had those Sticking a thousand feet up in the air.
02:45:35.000When you see pictures of them going up, You see those towers, those columns sticking way up above the part of the building that has already been constructed.
02:45:45.000But not here, they just get blasted off in these little sections.
02:45:48.000And so they, the buildings collapse then into a pile of rubble about three stories high.
02:45:55.000So all those columns had to be severed.
02:45:58.000And as if fire, you know, fire and gravity could do that.
02:46:03.000So, as you say, the official story, if anybody will look at it precisely, is just absolutely ludicrous.
02:46:09.000When one talks about probability theory... And then we have Larry Silberstein saying we pulled it, refusing to answer questions, and then we have reporters being told, get back, we're going to pull it.
02:46:22.000So, yeah, with Building 7, and then you look at, as I point out in the book, my second book, if you examine the collapses of buildings 7 and then the towers there are some differences but for the most part they all share these 9 or 10 standard characteristics and so You know, it's a pretty easy, logical philosophy.
02:46:48.000And again, with their theory, if you can disprove any part of it, the whole thing falls.
02:46:52.000And if we can disprove every part of it, it would take hours to do it, and you've done it, I've done it.
02:47:10.000- Yeah, you mentioned it's only conspiracy theories if you haven't researched this subject, and it was quite obvious during the debate, Bravo, by the way, you two gentlemen, it's quite obvious who Peter Lance is working for. - Well, I don't know that we can conclude that.
02:47:25.000I don't ever like to impugn anyone's motives or sincerity, and I know Peter, I think he is. - Yeah, regardless of what Peter Lance is up to, the former Nightline producer, we just know he's wrong.
02:47:39.000You had mentioned earlier, or you had touched on it, and that's the theory of cognitive dissonance, where people reject the information that's not in line with their previous thoughts or actions.
02:47:49.000That's one of those biggest hurdles I think we're facing in this 9-11 thing, and my question to both gentlemen is, what What is it going to take?
02:47:58.000I mean, I'd hate to see this backfire in our faces, because we all want the truth to come out and we all want these perpetrators to end up in prison, but what's going to happen to the leadership of this country in the interim, and how are we going to prevent the United Nations from trying to come in and take over?
02:48:12.000Alright, thanks for the call, Professor.
02:48:18.000I don't think there's any problem with the United Nations.
02:48:21.000I mean, it was created to be a completely impotent organization, and the ones who set it up certainly succeeded in that.
02:48:29.000It can't do anything that the leading nations don't want it to do.
02:48:32.000It's really just a front for a business for the industrialists.
02:48:35.000But I think the point that he makes is a good one.
02:48:39.000I think many people in authority say, you know, we just can't expose the truth.
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02:52:15.000It's not enough with the breaks and things.
02:52:17.000And I want to jam a few more calls in here from David and Mike and Dana.
02:52:23.000But real fast, Professor, finish up what you were saying about the last caller.
02:52:27.000Yeah, I was just going to say, I think he makes a good point that I think many people who know the official story is wrong and that our government was complicit say, look, If we expose that, that's going to bring down the whole government.
02:53:42.000They're going to use this to, you know, I mean, the studies indicate that global warming, if it is not slowed down enormously, I mean, we're talking about I agree with you on environmental crises and genetic engineering, but that's a whole... We've got to get you back up, Professor.
02:53:58.000Let's take a couple final calls real fast.