On today's show, Alex Jones is joined by Nate Blakeslee, Jeff Norman, Vicky Karp, Ray McGovern, Nadia McCaffrey, and more! Also, the latest on the Bush administration, including the latest in the Valerie Plame scandal.
00:00:41.000We're going to be live for the next three hours, and my producer's gone absolutely crazy today.
00:00:48.000We have five guests coming up, and we'll even squeeze some phone calls in, coming up in about 30 minutes.
00:00:55.000Jeff Norman, Executive Director of U.S.
00:00:57.000Tour of Duty, former CIA analyst Ray McGovern, and Gold Star mom who lost her son in Iraq, Nadia McCaffrey.
00:01:09.000And then coming up in the middle of the broadcast, in an hour and a half, Nate Blakeslee, former editor of the Texas Observer, he broke the Tulia story for the Observer in 2000.
00:01:20.000His new book, Tulia, Race, Cocaine, and Corruption in a Small Texas Town.
00:01:26.000We'll be telling you the latest developments on Tulia and his new book with an inside view of it.
00:01:31.000This is where they would just randomly, literally come in and just swoop up whole streets of black people And drag them off to be put in private prisons building widgets.
00:02:06.000And the way she just systematically went through the admitted fraud with these electronic touchscreen, no record voting machines and even the optical scan systems are fed through these systems, through these machines.
00:02:24.000And I thought, you know, we haven't talked enough about election fraud and the system that's being put in place since 2004, the end of the last election, it's time to Time to bring some of the great folks on that are fighting this, so Vicki Karp will be joining us in the third hour for much of the third hour.
00:02:47.000Senior military torture investigator has been found dead.
00:03:33.000And again, George Bush is just a puppet, so if the Globalists do decide to remove Bush, the party just continues on, but now we have to learn the names of all the new players who are the new frontmen.
00:03:47.000They did the exact same thing with Nixon and many others.
00:03:52.000Wilma ties Atlantic hurricane season record.
00:03:56.000The 05 Atlantic hurricane season record tied a 72 year old record for the busiest ever with the formation of a tropical storm.
00:04:04.000Wilma today will tell you about that as well.
00:05:18.000The film documents dozens of confirmed cases of government-sponsored terrorism worldwide.
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00:08:33.000We're now on the second segment of this Monday edition, the 17th day of October, 05-118.
00:08:38.00005, a lot of big guests coming up today.
00:08:40.000We'll be documenting the electronic voting machine fraud being put in place nationwide.
00:08:46.000I mean, if you were powerful politicians and they're private corporate handlers and owners, wouldn't you want to seize control of the voting systems and have absolute power?
00:09:00.000We'll also talk about the latest corruption involving Lord Cheney and Lord Bush, and these ongoing indictment rumblings.
00:09:09.000And we've got former Chief CIA Analyst for Ronald Reagan, as well as George Bush Sr., Ray McGovern coming up, as well as the mother of a dead vet.
00:10:38.000And of course, we've caught the British military Running around dressed up like Arabs shooting people with bombs and carrying out bombings and we've caught the Israelis doing it and it's been in all the big Israeli papers.
00:10:53.000So, to even try to wade into this discussion takes hours, and we've done many broadcasts on it, and I do have an upcoming film that gets into these other cases of terrorism that were government-sponsored.
00:11:06.000But, just interesting to see this article.
00:11:08.000Indonesian president accuses Western intel of being behind Bali bombings.
00:11:15.000An extraordinary documentary produced by Australian Public Television, Inside Indonesia's War on Terrorism, will be rebroadcast this evening.
00:11:28.000In the program which first aired on October 12th, the blind former president of Indonesia, Reportedly, more trusted than any other official in the country, told SBS TV Dateline Australia's state-run public TV that the horrendous Bali bombing, which killed more than 200 Indonesians, was planned and carried out by Indonesian police or military personnel at the behest of Western powers.
00:11:55.000Well, the Indonesian government admits that in the 60s and 70s and 80s, They carried out bombings all over the country and blamed it on their enemies.
00:12:04.000I mean, that's not even... That's the mainstream news right there.
00:12:09.000Again, it's like Herman Roosevelt, 30-something years after he carried out bombings and sniper attacks with thousands of hired thugs in 1953 in Iran,
00:12:26.000In the mid-eighties, he goes on and does an NPR interview, which I've heard, in which they re-aired segments of just a couple years ago, on NPR, where he brags about carrying out terror attacks to blame it on... ...Mozart!
00:12:41.000Again, for those that are tuning in for the first time, do you understand?
00:12:47.000Twenty, thirty, forty years after the fact, our government admits they've carried out terror attacks to blame it on their enemies in Europe.
00:13:52.000This is why I go into overdrive so often.
00:13:55.000This is why I start frothing at the bit, chomping at the bit, because... I could talk for the next three hours about this, but I don't have the time.
00:14:09.000And, you know, last week I didn't even cover an article out of St.
00:14:14.000Louis where they announced that They're going to use your cell phone, the feds in the state are, in using Missouri as a test state, they're going to use your cell phones, not just transponders that are going to be in the inspection stickers that we barely beat this year in Texas, it would have been law next year, but they're still implementing despite not having a law, but side issue.
00:14:44.000It runs right alongside it simultaneously.
00:14:47.000They just calmly announced that we're going to use your cell phone to track you from point to point and if you're speeding, we're going to give you a ticket.
00:15:01.000If you're speeding, we're going to mail you a ticket off that cell phone.
00:15:06.000And then of course there was another report out of a Saudi Arabian company, and they're already making it the law in Saudi Arabia, Where they are going to use transponders and the stickers and the inspection stickers and the cell phones and radio readers just different redundant systems to track everything you do and to tax you and that's going on here in the United States now being implemented.
00:15:50.000Bush, a few months ago, signed the order that all of your prescriptions, everything you buy, that's prescription, whether it be a prosthesis, whether it be prescription strength, ibuprofen, everything you do, whether it be herpes medicine or a diaphragm,
00:16:13.000Everything you, you go, Prozac, Ritalin, whatever, is instantly uploaded to a federal database every time you do it.
00:16:42.000In 2001, October 1st, 2001, all cell phones in the country, by law, that were to be sold from that point on, are satellite tracked down to 15 feet via cell towers.
00:16:57.000The cell towers triangulate and then that's relayed to satellite and then that's beamed to FEMA data banks that then share that data with local emergency management FEMA command bases that are really federal command bases that have been built all over the country.
00:17:13.000And I sat there after they passed the law that then was to be implemented in over the next five, six years People would email me, laugh at me, criticize me.
00:20:59.000The ideology powering the Democrats and Republicans is not liberalism or conservatism, but globalism.
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00:24:13.000Louis, I have articles out of Texas, I have articles out of Montana.
00:24:21.000Headline, Montana may track cell phones for data traffic collection and it says that every move you make, everything you're doing will be wirelessly tracked down to exactly where you are and relayed into a state grid to quote, help other drivers.
00:24:39.000But of course, that's the Department of Transportation.
00:24:42.000Then you have the Department of Public Safety.
00:24:45.000They're going to be using it for law enforcement.
00:24:51.000And I was just talking to John Harmon there in the break, who's answering the phones and running the show, and he said that their big chain of grocery stores up there in Minnesota That suddenly, at all the self-checkout lanes, they've put the thumb scanners in.
00:26:41.000From upstate New York to certain areas of Texas to Minnesota, the reports are pouring in from London and in Berlin and Tokyo.
00:26:52.000And people are now signing up, they're enrolling.
00:26:56.000And then the next plan is, as we keep warning people, in 2008 they're going to simply say, okay, you've got to enroll in this now because of identity fraud.
00:27:08.000Meanwhile, most identity fraud is caused by the companies buying and selling and trading huge chunks of consumer data with other companies.
00:27:17.000That is where the lion's share of identity theft happens.
00:27:20.000But they're going to convince you of the false data that this will keep you safe.
00:27:24.000Again, they create the crisis and offer you the solution.
00:27:49.000Yeah, it's at Cup Foods, you go to the self-checkout lines, and it's called the Pay-By-Touch Service, and it just automatically deducts right out of your bank account.
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00:32:00.000Let's face it, we know that we're less than perfect when it comes to our diets.
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00:33:02.000Mondays and Fridays from 11 to 2 Central.
00:33:06.000Back from 9 to midnight Central Standard Time.
00:33:08.000Monday through Friday from 11 to 2 central back from 9 to midnight central standard time I'm Alex Jones your host the websites are Infowars.com and PrisonPlanet.com We have the InfoWar, because there's a war on for your mind attempting to stop these private, corporate, corrupt interests from turning our planet into a prison.
00:34:03.000I've been to the biometric conferences.
00:34:05.000They come right here to Austin all the time.
00:34:07.000I have been reading their industry publications for a decade.
00:34:11.000It's going to be hooked into the RFID like a huge wireless Google network.
00:34:16.000Everything you buy, everything you sell, everything you do, instantly uploaded to a database that the government and corporations have access to.
00:34:24.000It's going to cause incredible identity theft.
00:34:27.000Again, most identity theft are large corporate transfers and sales of data.
00:34:36.000So I have mainstream news articles from the Associated Press, Casper Star Tribune, you name it here, where every cell phone action you're doing is being tracked.
00:34:45.000You're being tracked down the road by your cell phone, being triangulated through local FEMA bases.
00:34:53.000The thumb scanners are going in the grocery stores everywhere.
00:34:55.000They're going to force you onto these.
00:34:59.000We'll be talking to John Harmon, who's running the board right now, coming up the next hour for a few minutes, finish up his story.
00:35:06.000You know, now the big grocery stores in Minneapolis-St.
00:35:08.000Paul, they phase out the service checkout lanes.
00:35:12.000Everybody's still trying to go to the one or two service lanes they've got.
00:35:16.000And then they just phase those out completely.
00:35:18.000That's now happening in Austin, and you don't have a choice.
00:35:21.000You've got to use self-serve, and then, oh, you've got to thumb scan.
00:35:39.000And they've got a lot of peaceniks going.
00:35:40.000This will cause a global air of peace.
00:35:43.000We'll all love each other after this happens.
00:35:46.000A lot of well-meaning people, but this will end all crime.
00:35:51.000But what it'll do is bring in an era of tyranny the likes of which the globe has never seen.
00:35:57.000Can you imagine Hitler if he had these type of mechanisms?
00:36:01.000You build a government big enough to give you anything you want, it's big enough to take it all away.
00:36:08.000Alright, I am digressing, it's just that this is all coming to pass now.
00:36:12.000Everything we read in industry publications a decade ago is now happening, and it is slavery.
00:36:19.000For the next 45 minutes or so, I'm really honored to be joined by an individual who we've had on several times before.
00:36:26.000I had a chance to interview him for a documentary that I've got coming out soon, as well as many of you have already seen it on the TV show or at PrisonPlanet.TV.
00:36:35.000Former high-level CIA analyst in the Reagan and Bush of 41 administrations, and of course that's Ray McGovern, He's been an outspoken critic of the faulty, well, I shouldn't call it faulty, the lies, the manufactured intelligence to go to war, and many other issues.
00:36:53.000Then of course, Jeff Norman, Executive Director of U.S.
00:36:56.000Tour of Duty, he's been organizing all over the country to have speeches and expose this and have rallies.
00:37:02.000And Jeff, of course, was grabbed by Rumsfeld's goons for asking the God a question at a press conference.
00:37:11.000And then of course, We're also joined by gold star mom Nadia McCaffrey, who is of course with us under sad circumstances, but at least she is bringing good out of the bad, trying to save other people's sons and daughters.
00:37:28.000Her son was killed as part of this whole whole action that's going on over in the Middle East and Central Asia.
00:37:38.000So to all three of you, thank you for coming on.
00:37:50.000Now, obviously with three of you on here, we've got to kind of crystallize the information you're bringing forward, but why are you here in Austin?
00:38:00.000Well, this evening we're speaking at the LBJ Center for Public Policy at 7 o'clock.
00:38:06.000It's going to be a discussion with those who are in general support of the war and those of us who think that the war was misguided from the outset and that we ought to figure out ways to get out.
00:38:22.000Who are they going to have up against you?
00:39:14.000Well, we're here to tell the truth and get the information out there that is otherwise being ignored or distorted, and you're right, we were here in August while Cindy Sheehan was down in Crawford, and the enthusiasm was so great that we came back this soon.
00:39:30.000And I can clarify who is on the program tonight, if you'd like.
00:39:36.000Okay, Nadia and Ray will be speaking against the war, and the two people who are in favor of the war, one is Trampas Crowe, who is A graduate student, actually, at the LBJ School, and he is also an Iraq veteran.
00:39:50.000And the other person who will be embracing the U.S.
00:39:53.000occupation of Iraq and trying to defend it is Sarah Binion, and she is an adjunct professor at Austin Community College specializing in international relations.
00:40:34.000I mean, I need to pass on the truth, especially since I did the trip last year to the Middle East with the peace delegation comprised of five parents who had lost their son in Iraq.
00:40:49.000We needed to see the situation for ourselves, and we did.
00:40:54.000So after what we saw, we need to bring the truth back, and we need to speak out clearly, loudly.
00:41:02.000Every new excuse or new package or raft of lies and propaganda that has been launched by the neocons in the last four or five years, it's all been proven to be patented, manufactured lies, premeditated lies, not accidental lies.
00:41:22.000I'm surprised they can even find people, though these two, Trampus Crowe and This other person, don't sound like their credentials stand up against the credentials, obviously, of a mother who lost her son, and Jeff Norman, of course, yourself, high-level CIA analyst.
00:41:40.000I mean, frankly, aren't they losing the war because no matter how many Fox News channels they have, we have the truth?
00:41:49.000Well Alex, it is true that there has been a sea change over the last several months and we now have polls indicating that as many as two-thirds of the American people think the war is a bad idea.
00:42:01.000The question is how to have a respectful discussion on these issues with people coming at it from different viewpoints.
00:42:10.000And what I hope we model this evening is precisely that.
00:42:13.000A chance to show that the people from different perspectives can address these issues in a civil way, unlike what you'll hear on a lot of the radio these days.
00:42:24.000And address them in a concerted way so that people can see what the options are.
00:42:30.000In other words, should we, quote, stay the course, end quote?
00:42:34.000We'll have to see how those folks defend that course.
00:43:18.000We know it's personal for you, and it's personal for all Americans who don't want to be involved in a War of Aggression, a unprovoked war of profiteering.
00:43:30.000Specifically, tell us about your son and what happened to him.
00:43:51.000They share The way I feel, and they also think that we shouldn't be in Iraq.
00:43:59.000My son was betrayed, I feel, by his government because he trusted what he was told when he left.
00:44:07.000He was a National Guard to start with, and he enlisted after 9-11, wanting to make a difference, to help out people within the country.
00:44:15.000He didn't want anything like 9-11 to happen again, and he wanted to be here to help.
00:44:21.000Instead, he was deployed to Iraq, he was killed, and he was the first National Guard to be killed from California from his unit in 58 years.
00:44:33.000Wow, that's quite an interesting distinction.
00:44:37.000How long was your son there, and if I may ask, how did he pass?
00:45:28.000You're saying it was a sneak attack or spies?
00:45:31.000It was hostile, definitely, and it's considered to be a so-called insurgent.
00:45:39.000Um, a third sniper arrives on the scene and fire at the three of them, but especially Patrick because... Well, this is what we hear from the armchair quarterback neocons that literally swill beer and eat pizza and watch the war coverage.
00:46:22.000Only one member of Congress has a son that's ever been to Iraq?
00:46:27.000Ray McGovern, can you comment on that?
00:46:30.000Yeah, this is a main part of the problem, Alex.
00:46:34.000I was talking to an audience outside of Milwaukee at a very posh suburb, and one well-heeled gentleman came up and said, what's your problem?
00:46:44.000There are only four or five soldiers dying every week, and we do need the oil, don't we?
00:46:48.000You have to admit that that's a very small price to pay for the oil we need.
00:46:53.000I could hardly believe my ears, because I dare say many Americans subconsciously are thinking these thoughts.
00:46:59.000But here was a fellow articulating it.
00:47:39.000My son wouldn't have to go to Iraq and Well, I know Rangel and others who've had him on have said, yeah, that's why we need to draft all the rich kids.
00:47:46.000Look, they're never going to write the law where it happens to their kids, or they're going to be managing the PX 500 miles from any combat.
00:47:57.000Well, if we spread the truth around, Alex, and you're a big help in this, we can educate folks to realize that they've been had and that this war has nothing to do with democracy or freedom or defending, quote, our way of life.
00:48:12.000What it has to do with is enriching the pockets of the folks that support this administration and enabling us to try to exert our power throughout the world, particularly in the Middle East.
00:48:23.000But, Ryan McGovern, I had Congressman Ron Paul on Last Thursday.
00:48:39.000And Ron Paul, we have a transcript of it on PrisonPlanet.com, but the interview's there as well, he said Bush is trying to take over and set up martial law.
00:48:47.000He said Bush, and Ron Paul's been on this show over two dozen times, he's never talked like this, he said the evidence is clear, He's trying to set up a dictatorship.
00:48:59.000Well, it does seem as though the folks that have his ear are held meant on giving a wider purview, wider responsibilities to our military, witness what they're talking about now, and giving the military primary responsibility for catastrophes, for hurricanes, and so forth.
00:49:16.000A military has been built up as an instrument of power by these folks that has never existed in its potency, this kind of potency, before.
00:49:24.000And so I think we all need to look at this, because there are laws against using the military in law enforcement capacities, and we need to get to our congressmen and senators and say, look, enough of this stuff.
00:49:37.000Bring the National Guard home, have the National Guard do these duties under the supervision of the governors, and don't let the U.S.
00:49:44.000military take over the security functions of this country, because that's not what it was invented to do.
00:49:50.000Well, it's every classical sign of a dictatorship.
00:49:54.000Pushing national ID cards, putting cameras up everywhere, getting rid of any due process, secret arrest of citizens, They don't need to get rid of Posse Comentatus.
00:50:06.000He'd use the regular army in a disaster.
00:50:08.000And then, the training of the domestic troops.
00:50:42.000And if somebody does this kind of provocation, big, violent explosion of some kind, we have to not take the word of the masters there in Washington that this was some terrorist event, because it could well be a provocation allowing them, or seemingly to allow them... We'll be right back.
00:51:22.000The Constitution has been shredded, and America is now a police state.
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00:54:29.000And every day, articles about, hmm, maybe this will keep us safe.
00:54:35.000Has nothing... I mean, all these scientists and doctors have said, That if there's some type of bio-attack, martial law will do nothing.
00:54:44.000None of the money is going towards actual first responders or medical teams.
00:54:48.000It's all about an excuse to take over.
00:54:51.000And you were saying that if there is some attack, while the indictments are going on, I would add, some convenient attack, we've got to ask where that's coming from.
00:55:01.000Please continue and finish up what you were saying, Ray.
00:55:04.000Well, we've just got to be very careful not to be taken in.
00:55:09.000You know, things get even worse than they are now.
00:55:40.000So we just have to be alert as citizens and not take what the government dishes out as gospel.
00:55:48.000Well, Ray, the sources we trust, that in the past we found out to be very accurate, one of them Ron Paul, others in the White House, around the White House, Capitol Hill, Blue, and others say that Bush is throwing fits, screaming and yelling, that there's actual disintegration going on in there right now, that they're panicked for the last month.
00:56:08.000But at the same time, I get the intel that they're still as arrogant as ever, just pushing their whole agenda as things start to crumble up from under them.
00:56:17.000And Ron Paul said that it's clear that they are delusional and mentally ill right now.
00:56:24.000Well, they've been delusional all along.
00:56:26.000I think the best outcome would be for the President to take his bike out there in Maryland, just to ride around for the next month or two, and let Fitzgerald come back with the indictments and see what the administration, how they'll cope with that, because it's going to get pretty intense pretty soon.
00:56:44.000And when you talk about Rove and Libby, well, Rove is simply the President, and Libby is simply the Vice President, and these things go a lot higher, Because they have to do with the lies used to justify this war.
00:56:57.000But to be specific, you're always, and others back in the 80s and early 90s, called them the crazies at the Pentagon in their kind of walled, sequestered romper room.
00:57:07.000But I mean, now we have Ron Paul calling them delusional.
00:57:12.000The only hope really here is Patrick Fitzgerald and his integrity, and it looks like he's got lots of it, which is a rare commodity in Washington.
00:57:21.000The indictments are going to come down and they're going to touch the President and the Vice President specifically.
00:57:50.000My best guess is that it was done at home here by folks very willing to do this kind of task for the likes of Louis Libby and his boss, Vice President Cheney.
00:58:03.000Have they bitten off more than they can chew, Ray, in the intelligence community that's sick of lying for them?
00:58:09.000Well, they have, and it depends on us to hold them to it.
00:58:12.000Because if we're not educated, if we're not strong and have the courage of our convictions, they'll get away with it once again.
00:59:06.000He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
00:59:10.000And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
00:59:15.000Well, we really ought to be thankful for people like Ray McGovern, former CIA analyst who briefed Ronald Reagan and George Bush, the first.
01:00:28.000It's just that they're going to be having a debate pro-con for the war.
01:00:32.000And I've just heard the pro-war crowd.
01:00:34.000They have... They are congenital liars.
01:00:40.000And I don't know about these two particular people they're going to be debating, but in every case it's been the same.
01:00:46.000I mean, you have to be an idiot or a liar to push this war.
01:00:50.000It's one of the most unjust flagrantly fraudulent wars in history.
01:00:54.000We're about to break, this is a quick segment, but going to Nadia McCaffrey.
01:00:59.000Nadia, you had some points you wanted to make, namely about armored Humvees.
01:01:03.000You know, we hear on Neocon Radio that there's plenty of armored Humvees, but I've talked to troops coming back, who've just been getting back in the last month, most of them still don't have armored Humvees.
01:02:24.000It's a sea change in what I'm used to.
01:02:26.000I've been watching things in Washington for 45 years now.
01:02:31.000We no longer have a free press in any meaningful sense of that term and so the premium is on folks like you and others to tune into the alternative press and get the real scoop and the internet is one of the prime resources for that.
01:02:48.000We just have to be a little bit more imaginative in ways to use that terrific facility.
01:03:36.000We'll talk to Jeff Warman when we get back as well.
01:03:39.000I got several other important questions for our guests who I just really want to thank and who I just appreciate.
01:03:44.000I mean, they're traveling the country of their own time and money to tell you the truth, folks.
01:03:53.000Hey folks, Alex Jones here, and I'm very excited to announce the release of my bombshell documentary film, 9-1-1, The Road to Tyranny, on DVD.
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01:07:42.000They're all a bunch of soft little chicken hawks, never wore a uniform, never been in combat.
01:07:48.000And they just, I mean, it's admitted, Richard Perle shows off to women who are just disgusted by him Cocktail parties by talking about, you know, I can invade countries if I want to.
01:08:41.000And then Bush says, I'm not going to stop torturing people.
01:08:44.000But then Alberto Gonzalez gets confirmed and won't even Step away from his memos calling for torture.
01:08:53.000And I agree with Ray McGovern when he said during the break that this shows that Rove is distracted right now, you know, off trying to save his own hind end.
01:09:01.000But, you know, that's what scares me, Ray McGovern, is that they seem to be even more out of control, more arrogant, more in your face right now.
01:09:14.000You know, our Constitution was written by some very foresighted people who had provisions for what happens when a president starts acting like a king.
01:09:27.000And they wrote right into that basic document a very orderly procedure.
01:09:31.000The remedy to be followed under such circumstances, and that remedy is called impeachment.
01:09:36.000And just the fact that the Republican Party, the President's party, dominates the legislature right now, that is no excuse.
01:09:44.000No excuse for our representatives to avoid pressing articles of impeachment against the people who would besmirch our country's name and endanger our own soldiers.
01:09:59.000By having an openly avowed policy of torture, consistent with military necessity and as appropriate, and who decides what's appropriate, but the President of the United States.
01:10:10.000This is a king, this is not a president.
01:10:12.000The way you get rid of a king is to impeach him.
01:10:15.000Well, Ray, back in your day at the CIA, torture was not some routine procedure.
01:10:21.000It certainly went on and people went to prison for doing it.
01:10:25.000Now it's just out in the open being codified as some huge policy arm.
01:10:31.000But then I read my history books, but you're an analyst.
01:10:43.000I mean, how are they openly pushing torture?
01:10:47.000Well, Alex, I served two years as an officer, an infantry and intelligence officer, and we had to memorize that manual that prohibited this kind of treatment.
01:11:34.000And if our churches can't wake up If our people cannot wake up and make themselves a little different from the populace in the 30s in Nazi Germany and do something about this, if they can't face torture and tell the President this is wrong, then I fear for the future of our country.
01:11:53.000I mean, no one's ever promoted torture openly.
01:11:57.000I mean, the Nazis didn't even do that.
01:12:00.000No, and you know, it all came to a head last week when Senator McCain, who knows something about torture, having been tortured himself, put a little amendment on the Defense Authorization Bill.
01:12:12.000The amendment said, we simply will not torture anymore.
01:12:15.000We'll follow the procedures in the Army Manual for Interrogation.
01:12:19.000Cheney descended on those folks that wanted to do that amendment and said, we're going to veto that bill if you have that amendment in it.
01:12:27.000And anyhow, what happened, and to his credit, McCain persisted, and last week the Senate vote was 90 to 9 for the amendment prohibiting torture.
01:12:39.000And your two Senators here in Texas, I have to say, Kay Bailey Hutchison, voted the correct way against torture, but this fellow John Cornyn, I don't know, I don't know how you justify voting for torture, but I would hope that you Texans listening in will ask John Cornyn, now why is it that you favor torture?
01:12:59.000He voted against an amendment which said we should adhere to the Army Manual having to do with interrogation of POWs, and Cornyn voted against it with eight other Republicans.
01:13:11.000And it's going to be really interesting to see if the House of Representatives honor that amendment or whether they succumb to White House pressure to allow this amendment to be defeated.
01:13:27.000When I've read his memos on air, he just plays that little word game, that delusional game, and says, well if we don't call it torture, it isn't torture, even if they die while we're tabling them.
01:13:39.000And for those that don't know what tabling is, and the descriptions that have come out in the Army's own reports, Is that they have the people put excrement in a big bucket, and then they put somebody up on a dolly, on a plank, and then slide their head down into it.
01:13:55.000I mean, Ray, how did they send people to prison for torturing when they were ordered to do it, and then meanwhile Gonzales openly admits that he wrote memos saying it was good?
01:14:07.000Yeah, well that's the supreme indignity.
01:14:09.000When he was up for confirmation, he did not disavow these memos.
01:14:14.000Colin Powell, to his credit, and he deserves very little credit these days, but at least he spoke out against torture.
01:14:20.000But Speedy Gonzales speeded his own little memo up to the President the day before he got the memo from Colin Powell.
01:14:27.000So they clearly wanted... Well, the President on the evening of 9-11 told Richard Clark, the anti-terrorism fellow, and Don Rumsfeld Look, I don't care what the international lawyers say, we're gonna kick some ass.
01:14:49.000And so, it's a direct, direct dissent down into Crawford, Texas, where the counter-demonstrators had signs saying, kick their ass and take their gas.
01:15:10.000I mean, I can think of nothing more anti-Christ than torturing people, Ray.
01:15:15.000Well, that's why I say if the Christian churches, like the real ones, you know, not the ones that are Christian in name only, if the Methodists and Catholics and Presbyterians and Episcopalians can't get their act together enough to speak out to their people and say, we think it's wrong that our government hasn't openly avowed
01:15:38.000Well, it's almost like Bush wants to embarrass this country, and I think that's part of a larger program.
01:15:53.000Jeff Norman and Nadia McCaffrey, you guys are going to be there speaking tonight, and they're debating this evening, 7 o'clock, LBJ Library and Museum.
01:16:05.000You really can't miss it, folks, but any other points you'd like to make?
01:16:09.000Well, you know, it's not actually the library, it's the LBJ School of Public Affairs, which I guess is close, and I'd like to give the number of... To be specific, it's all the same building, so I'd like to... It is, alright.
01:16:18.000Alright, so regarding the possibility of any venue change, let me give the number for information over there, if I might.
01:16:27.000And I'd also like to point out, if any people want to speak to their local representative, or their state representative actually, John Cornyn, about why he is so in love with torture, his address is 221 West 6th Street, Suite 1530.
01:16:42.000So perhaps some concerned citizens might want to go over there and find out about it.
01:16:48.000You also brought up a very interesting point before about the illegal paying of journalists to disseminate propaganda.
01:16:54.000And Ray's former colleague, Mel Goodman, who worked with him in the CIA, wrote a very interesting op-ed, which is up on our website, ustourofduty.org, in which he suggested that maybe Robert Novak was among those who was paid off.
01:17:09.000And I think that's the first time anyone has linked this illegal buying of the media to the, uh, Valerie Plain.
01:17:14.000Well, I mean, it's well known, paid off, the guy's whole life, his whole position has been a, has been a neocon He's been moiling for them since day one.
01:17:27.000In fact, give us the website, please, Nadia, for the Gold Star Vets as well, Ray, the Intelligence Veterans for Sanity.
01:18:01.000Well, I'm glad that you've gone public, Nadia, and I appreciate your courage.
01:18:05.000People should come down and support you tonight.
01:18:07.000Ray, give us the website that you're a member of.
01:18:10.000Yeah, well, you know, we're too busy running around the country spreading truth around, Alex, to maintain a website, so the best thing to do is Google either my name, Ray McGovern, or Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, and you'll come up with pretty much everything we've done recently.
01:18:27.000Yeah, you guys have done a massive, a massive amount of work, and hopefully we can make it through all of this, all of this craziness, and I really do appreciate all three of you for coming on.
01:18:59.000Being in government means never having to say you're sorry.
01:19:02.000What part of unconstitutional do you not understand, George?
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01:22:56.000Folks, I said that when Bush got into office, they may use him to really bring in the New World Order and then flush him down the toilet when they're done with it.
01:24:26.000So we have two distinguished lawyers simply contradicting each other at this point.
01:24:31.000Um, look, what's amazing about this debate is the following.
01:24:34.000On July 30th, the CIA referred to the Justice Department the leaking of Valerie Wilson, or Valerie Plame's name, for investigation under the, what's it called, the Intelligence... Foreign Intelligence and Identities Act.
01:24:48.000There's almost no chance, I think, that Rove or Libby are going to be prosecuted for violating that act.
01:24:53.000On the other hand, the CIA began this process of a criminal investigation.
01:24:58.000It went from a Justice Department investigation to a special prosecutor at Christmas of 2003.
01:25:03.000and I now think, and I hate the criminalization of politics, and I think it's really ridiculous when you step back and say, of all the leaks that have come out in the last four or five years, is this the one leak that deserves to be prosecuted, of possibly classified information?
01:25:15.000But talking to people pretty close to both Libby and Roe, outside of government, who therefore can talk about it, I think they expect the worst now.
01:25:28.000I believe, if I had to predict, and I don't know more about this than anyone else reading the papers, that both Libby and Roe will be indicted, not for what the original referral was about, but for some combination of disclosing classified information, or perhaps fairly to fully, be fully candid with federal investigators or with be fully candid with federal investigators or with the grand jury.
01:26:29.000Wheels within wheels, lies within lies, propaganda within propaganda, wheels within wheels.
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01:33:19.000When you become decadent, you become basically mentally stunted.
01:33:24.000We become very numb to what's happening.
01:33:28.000I mean, empathy is, you see somebody that's hit by a car and they're splattered all over, and you see that they're in pain, you have a feeling of pain.
01:33:37.000And by the way, I've read the psychology, I've read the sociology, I've read the science behind it.
01:33:42.000That's because your brain, deep down, associates that incredible pain with that happening to yourself.
01:33:49.000I mean, really, empathy is a self-survival mechanism.
01:33:54.000The yuppies and ne'er-do-wells out there think that if they only care about themselves, everything's going to be alright.
01:34:02.000Well, I only care about me, and that's how I get ahead.
01:34:05.000Number one, that's not how we're supposed to operate.
01:34:08.000You're going to be a very unhappy person.
01:34:11.000But more importantly, it creates a society, a toxic society, where nobody cares about anybody and everything falls apart.
01:34:20.000And I'm not trying to get up here and preach, folks.
01:34:23.000I mean, I'm not the nicest person in the world.
01:35:34.000The point I'm trying to make here before we go to our next guest is that when you don't care about innocent people that are in prison, or you say, oh, they're all guilty, Well, then you're going to be treated like that, too!
01:36:02.000Now, when I learned about the Thulea, Texas case many years ago, and I've interviewed almost everybody under the sun surrounding, you know, this case, including some of the victims, I was amazed because, I mean, I knew that crime labs in Boston and crime labs in Houston and the FBI crime lab... Frederick Whitehurst, the head of the FBI crime lab's comment was that it was industrialized fraud.
01:36:40.000But Tulia was a sterling example because you had people who weren't, who didn't have drugs.
01:36:46.000You had people who had no criminal record.
01:36:48.000Old farmers in a small town where the old aristocracy in the town The town had shut down, so literally the local big boss hog types just opened these prisons.
01:37:10.000And they would just go out and scoop up masses of black people with no criminal records and just throw them into prison.
01:37:16.000The juries would give them 20 to 90 years in prison.
01:37:19.000It came out that it was all completely manufactured.
01:37:22.000The governor finally had to Had to give clemency or pardon most of them, and some people are still in prison!
01:37:30.000So without further ado, we're going to talk to Nate Blakeslee, former editor of the Texas Observer.
01:37:36.000He also writes for the Texas Observer currently, and he wrote the new book, The Tulia Story, and his new book is simply called, Tulia, Race, Cocaine, and Corruption in a Small Texas Town, and he also is now writing for Texas Monthly.
01:37:53.000And I appreciate you sitting through that diatribe there, Nate, but, I mean, if we don't get angry about innocent people going to prison, none of us are safe, are we, Nate?
01:38:04.000No, I would say you hit a bunch of the themes in the book in that introduction, and, you know, obviously one of the major ones is abuse of police power, and this is one of the prime examples in recent history.
01:38:14.000Well, tell us, I mean, for those that don't know about Thulia, it's still relatively unknown.
01:38:22.000Well, what happened was, in the summer of 1999, there was a major drug bust in Tulia, which was unusual in and of itself, because it's such a small town.
01:38:53.000There were a few stories about, well, should so many of these defendants have been black?
01:38:57.00039 of the 47 were black and there's only about 250, maybe 300 black people in town.
01:39:04.000But there were very few questions raised about the methods he used and about whether or not these cases were actually legitimate to begin with.
01:39:14.000Until some investigative reporting and the observer reporting that I did focused on whether or not these cases were actually legit.
01:39:22.000And that's when things started to really unravel.
01:39:25.000And it came down like a house of cards and we think so many times that Tyranny is invincible, but really, it's a house of cards and along comes a wind and blows it over, but...
01:39:36.000For those that also aren't aware of the case, he had also done this in a bunch of other towns, so the numbers were even larger in the total.
01:39:46.000was... Actually, he had never been a narcotics agent, and that's kind of another galling aspect of this story, too, but he did have a terrible, terrible track record as a law enforcement officer.
01:39:58.000was he would use his father's good name.
01:40:01.000His father was a well-known Texas Ranger from West Texas who passed away.
01:40:05.000And he would rely on his father's good name to get these deputy sheriff's positions in these small towns and generally he would run up a bunch of bills, make a general ass of himself until they were just about ready to get rid of him and then he would disappear, literally, in the middle of the shift and everybody would be left holding the bag.
01:40:23.000That was his record coming into Tulia.
01:40:25.000He had never done any kind of narcotics enforcement.
01:40:27.000And what I tried to show in the book is how did we get to this state of affairs in the drug world where a man like this can be hired to do narcotics enforcement and not only hired in the first place, but allowed to do narcotics enforcement the way he did it, which was no corroboration of any kind for virtually any of his cases.
01:40:46.000Never had video, never even had a second officer to say yes he was where he said he was on the day he was there.
01:40:52.000So it's, the book is about an incredible decline in standards in narcotics enforcement in the United States.
01:40:58.000Well since you mention that, on the word of some crackhead who literally can hardly get out of bed in the morning, they'll SWAT team my house looking for drugs.
01:41:07.000I mean all of us are in danger, I mean I'm sure you've heard of the cases of where the Yeah, well at least Coleman was a cop.
01:41:12.000As you say, sometimes the person who's making the cases is not even a law enforcement officer.
01:41:16.000He's a snitch or a confidential informant.
01:41:17.000you know they boss in the old man's house and shooting five times and there's just thousands of these cases not frankly and second yeah well at least coleman was a cop as you say sometimes the person is making the cases is not even a law enforcement officer he's a snitch or a confidential informant and that is a that's part of the mo of this type of task force that hired coleman that these are the guys really are given narcotics enforcement a bad name in texas
01:41:44.000These guys operate outside of the normal Department of Public Safety narcotics.
01:42:07.000And that illustrated just how degraded law enforcement had become outside of these task forces.
01:42:13.000And the thing that really got me about that story was that the district attorney admitted That they routinely did not test evidence, did not test the cocaine until the cases were ready to go to trial.
01:42:25.000And so all you had was these narcs doing these field tests in which they were the only person present to say whether it was or was not cocaine.
01:42:33.000And then if the case never went to trial, which as you know most drug cases never go to trial, usually it's a plea, a cop-out, then the drugs were never tested at all.
01:42:42.000It's a breakdown in the system that comes from a lack of checks and balances.
01:42:52.000Number one, the drug war's gotten double the funding in the last ten years, and there's more cocaine and heroin on the streets than ever before.
01:43:00.000Number one, the thing is a fraud and a failure at first base.
01:43:05.000Then you move through this constellation of corruption, and I mean, I want to know how they sleep at night sending innocent people to prison.
01:43:15.000Well, I tried to get inside Coleman's head as much as I could and I think Coleman was the narc, of course, in the Tulia case.
01:43:22.000I think what it was about mostly for him was trying to save his professional career, or as Mel Brooks said, save his phony baloney job.
01:43:32.000He had ruined his reputation through his past conduct in law enforcement.
01:44:15.00090-year sentences for delivery of $200 worth of cocaine.
01:44:18.000Kids with no prior records getting the maximum.
01:44:21.000In fact, that's why I originally went to Tulia.
01:44:24.000I wanted to speak to the jurors about what it was that they felt about delivering small amounts of cocaine was morally equivalent to raping or murdering somebody because that's what they were given these first-degree sentences.
01:44:49.000Therefore, it didn't really matter how much evidence there was.
01:44:53.000They didn't need to have much more evidence than this man's word because they knew the family.
01:44:57.000Keep in mind, this is a really small town.
01:44:59.000So once you get on the list as somebody who's an undesirable, you're in a lot of trouble.
01:45:05.000And I lay more blame, really, on the district attorney and the sheriff and the task force for even making these cases and allowing them to come before attorneys in the first place.
01:45:16.000What I've heard from so many people inside this case is, if you were a young black man dating a white girl, you're going to prison.
01:45:24.000That did come up more than once in my interviews.
01:45:26.000In fact, it came up so many times that I would stop mentioning it, and it would still come up.
01:45:30.000And that does seem to be sort of, if you want to get the answer to the question, why does somebody give the maximum sentence for such a piddling crime, I think you do have to talk about race.
01:45:42.000And one of the things people did want to talk about in that town when you talked about race was what they called racial mixing or interracial dating or interracial sex.
01:45:49.000And it had become a much more common phenomenon, obviously, than it was in their parents' generation.
01:45:54.000And it was a great cause for concern in that town, and I do think that some of that sentiment underlies at least the length of the sentences involved.
01:46:02.000Well, no one's safe when you can get 90 years in prison because people don't like you.
01:46:07.000Why would he go after old black ranchers with no criminal record?
01:46:13.000I mean, why would he just... I mean, did he get sloppy at the end?
01:46:17.000Well, I think at first he was working off a list of names that the sheriff gave him, either in writing or verbally.
01:46:25.000I think the sheriff told him, look, we know who the troublemakers are in this town.
01:46:28.000These are the people we want you to get rid of.
01:46:30.000And by troublemaker, I mean anybody that's ever given them any kind of trouble at all, including what we were just discussing about this interracial sex issue.
01:46:40.000I think the sheriff probably expected to make about eight or ten cases, and most of them would be crack or marijuana, because that was sort of the pattern of drug use in that community that the sheriff sent him into.
01:46:49.000But instead, He started filing scores and scores of powdered cocaine cases, and he just wouldn't stop.
01:46:56.000He filed 40 against 47 different defendants.
01:47:00.000And if you stop and look at the numbers, there's only maybe 250, 300 black people in the town of Tulia.
01:47:06.000He indicted 39 of them for delivering powdered cocaine.
01:47:09.000That's over 1 in 5 of the adult population of the black community in Tulia.
01:47:23.000And it's everybody's community that this is happening to.
01:47:25.000But as Tony Brown has said on this show, they will take disadvantaged communities and target them.
01:47:30.000And so you'll have an over-concentration or over-saturation.
01:47:35.000That is, to boil it down, they'll get it even more severely.
01:47:39.000But other communities, and we're now even seeing in some of the South Texas areas, which is something that you may not have been aware of, that will have Hispanic majorities then kind of doing things to whites and blacks.
01:47:54.000So this can happen to any group at any time.
01:48:21.000Are there any other facets that the public may not be aware of?
01:48:24.000Well, one of the things I wanted to make sure people understood is this is not just another story of those crazy Texans being Texans, but this was actually a program that was funded by the federal government.
01:48:36.000It's commonly called the Byrne Grant Task Force Program.
01:48:41.000And that's what funded this operation in Thule, and that is what has funded a lot of the more scandal-ridden programs in Texas in narcotics.
01:48:51.000The idea behind the Byrne Grant was that we can't put a DEA agent in every town, but maybe we can get the sheriffs and the local PDs to group together, form these regional task forces, if we'll send them the money.
01:49:01.000The problem was that all they did was send them the money.
01:49:03.000They never checked up to see exactly how well these things were performing.
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01:54:38.000And I know that our guests probably won't go that far, but I'm saying if the shoe fits, wear it.
01:54:44.000Comments on what I've been talking about here, Nate.
01:54:48.000Well, I think people have gotten to the point where they're ready to give up, in some circles, on this particular drug task force program.
01:54:56.000And by that I mean there seems to be some enthusiasm waning in Washington for this program, partly because of the Thulia scandal.
01:55:04.000There was a pretty major budget cut in the last couple of years.
01:55:08.000And then here in Texas after the Thulia scandal, They announced a major reorganization of the program.
01:55:13.000They were going to put it under DPS Narcotics.
01:55:15.000And then the task forces just started dropping one after the other after Thulia, in part because of funding cuts, but also in part because they're all afraid of when their Thulia is going to come, when their multi-million dollar lawsuit is going to come, as happened in Thulia after the exonerations.
01:55:30.000They get together with their insurance companies and the county judges and they say, you know, it's time to get out.
01:55:34.000So we're all the way down to 25 task forces, and actually I think this morning it's 23 from a high of 50 in the late 90s.
01:55:41.000So this particular program seems to be on the way out.
01:55:45.000Well, I'll tell you, I mean, I'm not exaggerating.
01:55:48.000Roving bands of people in camo playing Rambo.
01:56:11.000I mean, I've been to houses in Travis County where they just walk off the street and searched all the houses.
01:56:18.000And I mean, talking to old ladies, and they make them sit in fire ants, and then, you know, no drugs are found, and they go into the renter's house and make fun of him for having a Playboy.
01:56:30.000I mean, it's like, well, we didn't find drugs, but what's this Playboy?
01:56:35.000Yeah, the whole innocent-have-nothing-to-fear mentality seems to reign on those search warrants these days, or lack of search warrants, and that phenomenon you just described of shutting down an entire street, the bust-out as they call it, this is why they call them the jump-out boys in Texas, these task forces.
01:56:51.000They call them the jump-out boys because they do just that.
01:56:53.000They'll come in, they'll park a van and get down to the street and they'll jump out and try to get everybody to stay where they are until they can search everybody.
01:57:00.000That's part of their, you know, they'll do these undercover operations that last six or twelve months, they'll build up a huge stack of arrest warrants, and then they'll try to go serve them all at once before anybody has a chance to run off, and that's when you get those big, sort of, police state-style jump-outs like you just described.
01:57:16.000Well, in one case, oh, it's a whole other issue.
01:57:20.000Sir, I really appreciate you coming on with us.
01:57:58.000He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
01:58:02.000And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
01:58:08.000If you heard the last 30 minutes, we were talking to a Texas Monthly writer, former editor of the Texas Observer, Nate Lakesley about Thule, Texas.
01:58:36.000It was in the mid-1990s that I began to watch the news, read the newspaper, research what the MJTF were doing.
01:58:47.000And folks, they don't even look for reports of drugs.
01:58:50.000They don't even... I mean, in some of the cases we saw, they would just... You're talking about women in camo flak jackets with big long red nails, with machine guns, with, you know, guys on roids stomping around slapping on their rear ends, laughing and kicking the family dog as people cry and cower and nothing illegal is found.
01:59:12.000Well, we saw some marijuana plants in your backyard.
01:59:16.000And it's blood weed that grows everywhere.
01:59:19.000I mean, I don't know a backyard around here that isn't mowed continually that doesn't have some blood weed.
01:59:26.000And then Margo Fraser, that disgusting sheriff we had, got up on TV!
01:59:33.000Because I went out there and covered it and made a big stink about it.
02:00:59.000I mean, you take some little police force of 10 people and you give them a million bucks to be MJTF, And then all these guys, all these Barney Fives become Commando Kings.
02:01:10.000They're going to shoot their own cops.
02:03:42.000America's future depends on the truth getting out.
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02:06:13.000Vicki has become one of the national leaders of Amongst many who are fighting to expose the fraudulent nature of these electronic voting machines and how they're designed to have back doors and how the big companies have been caught red-handed stealing elections.
02:06:35.000But still the average person by the time they read the newspaper is, oh there were a few problems but a federal commission's fixing it and then their fix is
02:06:44.000federal funds to put the fraudulent machines in everywhere but this weekend I went with my wife and children down on the Texas beach just to spend time with the family for a few days and I don't watch TV but I said you know I'm gonna watch some preachers and so I was watching TV and I was just like man you know these are great preachers and a lot of good information but
02:07:12.000The underlying theme was, be positive, be positive.
02:08:24.000But to make a long story short and sweet, which is impossible for me to do, as you know well, the windbag that I am.
02:08:36.000If my leg is cut off, And blood is squirting 15 feet.
02:08:43.000I can tie a tourniquet around my leg, pull my shirt off, tie a tight knot around my leg and save my life, or I can be positive and just say, no, I'm losing weight right now.
02:08:57.000My leg's cut off at the knee, blood sprang out of giant arteries and veins, but everything's okay.
02:09:04.000No, it is a positive action to admit that my leg is cut off and to tie a tourniquet around it.
02:09:11.000It'd be like if I said, I'll just be positive.
02:09:14.000I can build a boat made out of lead, a solid block of lead, and claim that it's a boat, and here I'll tie myself to it and throw it into the ocean, and if I'm just positive, why, this block of lead will float on top of the water.
02:09:30.000Well, you're going to have a really bad experience if you try that, so please don't try it.
02:09:36.000No, I'm very positive, folks, but it was every show, night after night, I was watching it, hours of it, and most of what they were saying was great, but there was this underlying thing of, be positive, ignore the bad, and there was nothing about the New World Order, there was nothing about the loss of liberty, there was nothing about I mean, it's a preacher's job to be fighting corruption, to be tackling the tough targets.
02:09:59.000I saw some documentary about Billy Graham, the Great Souls, or something.
02:10:04.000And it was just all about how he didn't rumple feathers, and he just gave a positive message, and it saved all these people.
02:10:11.000Well, are these people really saved, folks?
02:10:13.000I mean, again, I'm not trying to be a preacher here, it's just that Every time I get on and tell you what the transponders are going to do, or every time I get on and tell you what they're going to do with RFID, or every time I get on and tell you what they're going to do with your cell phone, the tax and trace, now mainstream news, I get emails going, don't be so negative.
02:10:32.000Or every time I get on the air and talk about electronic voting machines being a fraud.
02:11:06.000And just in closing before we go to Vicki, a little side caveat story.
02:11:12.000All over the country, gas stations, banks, grocery stores, shopping malls, theme parks, gotta thumb scan, gotta face scan, gotta wear an RFID bracelet, oh you get half off, you get 10% off.
02:11:28.000They put in 10 self-serve lines, and after a year, they pull the two service lines.
02:12:04.000Briefly, tell folks... I mean, describe what you heard on this show and now what you're witnessing at the major grocery store chain in your town.
02:12:15.000I went to the self-checkout line, and sure enough, now they have the thumb scanners in.
02:12:21.000And, you know, it has nothing to do with security or identity theft.
02:12:26.000It has everything to do with getting everyone into this database system, where eventually, you know, everything will be tied into the database.
02:12:36.000You know, medical records, bank account, everything.
02:12:44.000You were talking about how most the people have now, you know, don't like using the self-checkout, but they keep cutting it back.
02:12:50.000I mean, I've gone to Home Depot and Albertsons, folks, at like 8 o'clock, 10 o'clock at night, and now I'm told that Albertsons is like this all the time.
02:13:11.000You said the news was announcing that As this was being implemented, the 2 million people in Minneapolis-St.
02:13:16.000Paul, or over half the population, had already enrolled in this, but when you were there, you took notice of how many people really were using it.
02:13:25.000Yeah, no one was using them, and they said on the 10 o'clock news that they already had like 2 million sign-ups.
02:14:14.000There's so much I want to do, so much I want to bring you folks, and here I am bugging the fellow that answers the phones and runs the show and does the job of three people.
02:14:24.000Get in there and get me video of that!
02:15:29.000Vicki, I want to get into the election fraud, but if you can right now, tell us how you woke up to all this.
02:15:35.000I have to give you the credit for that.
02:15:36.000I was, as I am now, sitting in my car on my way to get a bite to eat, and I heard you interviewing Dev Harris on the radio about two summers ago.
02:15:45.000And I pulled over and started taking notes to make a Toastmasters speech out of it, because I thought, man, this stuff... I actually didn't believe my ears, but when I got on her website, I found out that she was only able to cover just a few of the unbelievable points about the D-Bulb software that she discovered on the Internet, and how it was pretty much, as she clearly discovered, designed for fraud.
02:16:10.000I started out by giving talks to my Toastmasters groups, and then the next thing I knew, I was talking to Republicans, Democrats, the Truth Seekers here in Austin, Legal Women Voters meetings, other citizens.
02:16:22.000I've been taking it not on the road out of town too much, but within the city of Austin.
02:16:28.000I've become a local spokesperson for it.
02:16:31.000And then ran into my friend Abby Delosier, who's been helping and doing a great job of media.
02:16:37.000Well, it's hard to do a great job with most of the media.
02:16:41.000We put on these two press conferences in Washington, D.C.
02:16:44.000last year for Bev Harris and a couple of computer programmers who demonstrated six ways to hack an election with Beebold and Pecoya software.
02:16:56.000Well, I want to go over all this because, again, folks, one piece of literally thousands of pieces of red-handed, you know, coup de grace evidence Is the fact that they actually found the manual online with the software on their website.
02:17:13.000Their idiot programmers had left it on the server where the public could find it through a back door.
02:17:19.000And it was a manual on how to steal elections.
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02:22:03.000If you go to infowars.com, we've got some links to some of the current news articles about Vicki's work.
02:22:10.000And you know I don't lavish people with praise normally, it's just that Anybody who from zero in just a few years is able to reach millions of people needs to be commended.
02:22:22.000And anybody who is informed and involved and passionate can have that type of effect.
02:22:49.000But we've caught them red-handed, Vicki.
02:22:55.000Well, I'd say that the non-belief of the public is one of the biggest obstacles we have on getting something done.
02:23:02.000I want to say regarding, you know, the proof that's out there, Alex, I don't think we have actual proof of a specific election official or individual hacking an election, but what we do have is a lot of evidence about how easy it is, about the obvious features of the software, both Diebold and Sequoia, both of which had their software, left their software online, as you said, on the web.
02:23:26.000So the software of those two companies, of the top four, have been reviewed very carefully.
02:23:31.000And Bev Harris and her team of experts, in particular, have discovered just recently even more flagrant, obvious design features for hacking.
02:23:43.000And so what we have is we don't have exactly a red-handed situation, which would be great.
02:23:49.000But we do have a lot of evidence that the software of these two companies, at least, was designed for fraud.
02:23:57.000Well, Vicki, when I say red-handed, when Diebold has a convicted computer hacker, convicted for computer crimes, running the California elections for Diebold, and then you have all sorts of weird number flipping, There have been thousands of cases with these big companies with just all sorts of fraud.
02:24:58.000I mean, there is all kinds of evidence.
02:24:59.000And that there was voter suppression involved there and voter discrimination as well as electronic voting machine manipulation and very likely a rigged recount there as well.
02:25:23.000As you said, you can take the software, you can take these machines, and in 30 seconds, experts are able to break in right in front of the news media.
02:25:33.000You guys have had press conferences in Houston, in DC, all over.
02:25:47.000We would love to know the answer to that.
02:25:49.000Well, the first big hack that Bev discovered was the hidden second set of books in the D-Bulb software, in what's called the central tabulator software.
02:26:01.000That's where all the final vote totals are stored.
02:26:04.000What she discovered was that separate precinct totals within a county were stored, for example, on one screen.
02:26:13.000And then the final totals would be stored on another screen of the software program.
02:26:19.000She could get in a back door and get to the final vote total page or screen, flip election results and come out and then getting back into the official version, which the election officials are showing when they get in there, the election results would have been flipped.
02:26:37.000And then magically and literally, folks, hundreds and hundreds of elections, that very thing happens.
02:26:50.000And long before people even knew about this, we would call it flipping.
02:26:53.000Back in the 98 election, for Save Our Springs and other issues, I have seen numbers actually flip.
02:27:01.000Yeah, it's a phenomenon that's occurred in so many places.
02:27:05.000I would advise listeners to get on the votersunite.org website, and there's all kinds of statistical evidence there.
02:27:15.000That's one of my best sources for information.
02:27:45.000Hey, Jack Blood here from Deadline Live.
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02:30:44.000We're talking to Vicious Card, voting integrity activist and lecturer.
02:31:08.000Vicki, joining us via cell phone from here in Austin, Texas.
02:31:12.000Vicki, can you, I mean specifically, as I heard one of the speeches you gave recently, and of course I was aware of much of the information you were covering, but I'd like to hear you recap that for the audience.
02:31:23.000But you were talking about cases of major universities looking at Bev Harris and her scientist findings, and many others.
02:31:32.000I mean, this is the integrity of our republic, of our voting system.
02:31:38.000And then you've got these companies saying it's proprietary, you can't look under the hood, shut up, just trust us.
02:31:45.000For decades before that, we've had voter news services.
02:31:49.000Some secretive group with armed guards who magically tells us who wins the election?
02:32:01.000Well, I think Bev and her team, they've come up with some even more explosive evidence about the default software in recent months.
02:32:11.000And that can be found in detail on blackboxvoting.org, her website, to capitalize it for you.
02:32:19.000There's a computer programmer and security engineer from Finland named Hari Hursti, H-U-R-S-T-I.
02:32:26.000And she met up with him in Florida and he's been doing contract work for her.
02:32:31.000And so they actually had an invitation from an election official in Leon County, Florida, Ian Fancho, who I wish every election official in the country had the integrity of this man.
02:32:42.000He'd been sold the Diebold optical scan counters, which are used to count paper ballots.
02:32:48.000He wanted them to come in and just see what they could do to the software that ran those op scan counters and just see if that system was as secure as what he had been told by the vendors and the state, and I guess the Secretary of State's office.
02:33:01.000And they went in there, and I think also Dr. Herbert Thompson was there, and Cynthia McKinney was a witness, and Representative Corinne Brown.
02:33:10.000And they went a couple of times, and they just tore that software apart, came in and hacked in several different ways.
02:33:18.000Within, you know, 60 to 90 seconds and but what a disturbing thing that they found.
02:33:23.000Two of the disturbing things they found that up till now I don't think have been out there.
02:33:28.000One, these optical scan counters which some people take comfort in because they're counting paper ballots which is of course everybody's looking to return people that have been
02:33:38.000You know, working on this, you're saying, let's go back to paper ballots, but when you have these optical scan counters, they have the same software that I was describing earlier, the same central tabulator software that has the secret backdoor, and Harry Hersey found that there's a, there's like a programming card that you, that downloads all the totals from each counter.
02:34:00.000He found a live program in the, he, that called, that refers to it as the electronic ballot box, and this little card Well, for those that don't know, I wanted to understand how this worked.
02:34:09.000the central tabulator to tally up the vote there's a live program in there that can manipulate the totals into the central tabulator however it's programmed to do well for those that don't know I wanted to understand how this worked back in 1996 I went and worked downtown at the old convention center there and And you even get paid.
02:34:33.000It's like six, seven bucks an hour to run the machines.
02:34:38.000And all I would do is make sure the ballots that people have done, you know, the bubble scantrons, the optical scanners, like an SAT test in college or high school, were facing the right direction and stacked properly when they've been put in the ballot box.
02:34:53.000And then after we had fed these into the big machines, they'd all been shipped there in ballot boxes, they then come up with this little computer card package, and they cram it into the machine and then pull it out, then they walk over and stick it into a bigger computer.
02:35:10.000And so again, it's already computerized, and that's exactly what we were told by computer hacking experts and people that have been exposing this in the past, is that it was a very primitive system, mainly of flipping.
02:35:24.000And we did indeed catch a lot of flipping.
02:35:27.000We had seen flipping even before I discovered this was a national problem, Vicky.
02:35:32.000So we've got to go back to the actual paper ballots that are looked at by humans, the old-fashioned way we used to do it.
02:35:41.000Absolutely, and not only that, and counted in public view.
02:35:45.000And that's the part where I lose a lot of people.
02:35:52.000I've heard people say, well that's so archaic.
02:35:54.000And recently, when I gave the talk you were referring to, that I gave recently to a citizen's group, I had somebody say, but what about the networks?
02:36:02.000They want to report the results quickly.
02:36:26.000I'm not sure which ones, but I know those two do.
02:36:28.000Well, Stalin said, I don't care who casts the votes, I care who counts them.
02:36:32.000Absolutely, and so, you know, it's unfortunate that within the movement of people that are trying to get our elections back, there has been, I guess, a sort of a division, unfortunately, and a lot of the people are working to promote legislation to add printers to the machines, but see, that's the other part of what Harry Hersey discovered, is that you can add a printer to one of these machines, and at least on the Diebold software, That count can still be manipulated to where you could get a paper ballot slash receipt.
02:37:01.000You don't usually get to walk out with that.
02:37:03.000But you can get something that verifies the way you just voted, but the machine will be recording something different.
02:37:22.000No one's seen it, but we know that Deebold has that feature.
02:37:25.000So why should we trust that the others don't have it?
02:37:27.000Nobody can prove that you don't have it if they won't let you see the software.
02:37:31.000Well, we know back in the late '90s, Karen Sunlightner, county commissioner, was losing, but in the middle of the night, when she threw a fit and started crying, the county clerk came and comforted her, It was in the paper and magically she won.
02:37:51.000And then it was in the paper that the state looked at what the county clerk had done, who I know you know and I don't want to say anything mean about, but they looked at what she'd done and said, oh, she accidentally double-counted ballot boxes and falsified signatures and broke safety seals.
02:38:06.000So, you know, we have all the old-fashioned stuff.
02:38:08.000We have LBJ and Box 13 and stuffing the ballot boxes, but still, that doesn't allow the industrialized, mass nature of this.
02:38:20.000We can fight good old-fashioned corruption, and I think the answer is having citizens being involved, having the paper ballots counted at the precinct, then being double-checked and recounted with witnesses and video cameras, with live feeds on the internet, at the downtown facilities, and to not have these things touch a dirty computer.
02:38:47.000Well, and to demonstrate to the public what that might look like, that's why we're going to be holding what we call a parallel election with paper ballots here in Austin in Travis County, November the 8th.
02:38:58.000We won't be able to cover very many precincts.
02:39:00.000It's going to be kind of a, this is our first try at doing something like this, but we're going to be inviting voters.
02:39:06.000To come out after voting on the heart machines and come out and cast their ballot again on paper and then invite them to come back at 7 o'clock and actually watch the votes be counted.
02:39:16.000Okay, and is there a local website where we can find out more about this?
02:39:21.000Well, there will be in a few days, but for now people can just call 775-3737 and to get more information, but I think we may, we've been getting a lot of great response and a lot of volunteers Basically, a lot of it coming from Radio Free Austin publicity, and we're so grateful for that.
02:39:43.000We're looking to have a real widespread political spectrum.
02:39:48.000I know all over the city you guys are going to be doing this.
02:39:51.000Just to demonstrate, I mean it's a great tactic to show the media what a real election looks like to illustrate this.
02:40:29.000The amount of evidence to try to chronicle it all, and I've been saying day one, don't let them go with a printer because they'll just print the fraudulent, they'll give you your results but then fraudulently announce the total results later and you have no way of verifying this.
02:40:50.000But if Diebold, which we keep talking about Diebold, they're the biggest Seller and maintainer of electronic voting machine systems in the country.
02:41:01.000They're the same people that are one of the biggest providers of ATM machines or automatic teller machines.
02:41:08.000Folks, if automatic teller machines had this type of software or this type of program, no one's data, no one's bank account would be safe.
02:41:16.000I mean, imagine them putting the data on the internet with the codes that a 10-year-old could go into the Diebold systems into your bank account and take your money.
02:41:25.000Those things are built very, in a very secure fashion.
02:41:28.000But then they also then simultaneously put out machines that are designed, and I've also talked to programmers, it's been in the news, not just to get in, but then to cover their tracks when they go out.
02:41:43.000There's so many layers of... Well, Hari Hirst, here's a quote from him.
02:41:48.000He compared the scanners, and this is the Diebold optical scanners, to a house with an unlockable revolving door.
02:41:56.000And he said, the system has the mother of security holes and no apparent cure will produce system safety.
02:42:03.000And after witnessing all the hacking that he and Herbert Thompson did, you know, Bev was asked, At a hearing recently, if she thought there was any way to fix the problem.
02:42:12.000You know, there's so many ideas being thrown around, like adding some sort of a cryptography where you get some barcode or something, you go home to your computer and check and see if you did or didn't vote.
02:42:23.000If your vote was or was not recorded or whatever.
02:42:26.000There are all these different suggestions that are just adding other layers of technology.
02:42:31.000Now it's part of the National ID Card!
02:42:34.000Well, yeah, and that's, yeah, we know how ridiculous that idea is.
02:42:37.000Anyway, her question, the question posed to her was, is there any way that she could see that you could, you know, through technology, to fix this?
02:42:45.000And she said, she said, without having hand-counted paper ballots, there's just no way to ever figure out the hack.
02:42:50.000And she has said that, as you were saying, of course, we know paper ballot elections aren't foolproof.
02:42:55.000We know that ballot boxes can be stuff, but you can't Flip an election and flip a million votes for a candidate with one stroke of a key on a computer keyboard with paper ballot elections.
02:43:10.000Well, history shows that, and there's a reason the politicians are so arrogant right now.
02:43:16.000There's a reason Rick Perry smiles at us when 98% of Texans are against the toll roads or major streets.
02:43:24.000There's a reason he just laughs at you.
02:43:26.000Because they've got enough of their machines in place now, already, to frustrate the will of the people.
02:43:33.000And that's why we're seeing election results that we've never seen before.
02:43:38.000In California, Gray Davis won all the areas where they didn't have Diebold machines, but in the major populated cities, Arnold then won by about 10% and that flipped it.
02:43:53.000Normally, not normally, always with demographics, it's more evenly distributed.
02:43:58.000Now we're seeing Howard Dean lose on all the Diebold machines and John Kerry win on all the Diebold, but then Howard Dean then wins on all the others.
02:44:09.000Folks, understand, we're seeing the fraud.
02:44:13.000And again, I'm not saying I like Howard Dean, I'm not saying I like Ray Davis.
02:44:17.000The point is, we report on the clear evidence.
02:44:21.000I mean, it's right there, and we're just willing to look at it for what it is.
02:44:29.000And then, you know, exit polls, which have been Considered reliable for years, and we even used them in Venezuela, and Ukraine I think got a second election based on exit polls that didn't agree with official results.
02:44:42.000However, here, in the United States, in the 2004 election, exit polls are being thrown out, saying, oh, well, they're not matching up, they're not being done right, or they're not reliable.
02:44:52.000But studies have been done by mathematicians and statisticians about the results of exit polls from 2004's election, And likelihood of them being so far off from the official results, and after boiling down the data, the consensus was that there was a 1 in 969,000 chance that exit polls could have been so long in predicting the outcome of the 2004 presidential election.
02:45:18.000There's so much evidence at my home office.
02:45:23.000I've got boxes and files and filing cabinets filled with it.
02:45:28.000Unpronounceable numbers with 50 something zeros.
02:45:29.000mainstream very much reporting on this naturally. - It was in the gazillion quadrillions, I mean, unpronounceable numbers, you know, with 50 something zeros, it's not true, 48 zeros, that you would have the exact same drill, the exact same places at the exact same time that you would have the exact same drill, the exact same places at the exact same time for And that was only with a ten year meme.
02:46:19.000In fact, when Bev did her first, when she first discovered that Diebold software, that was in July of 2003, I believe.
02:46:25.000And in July, She did her first hack with the help of a computer programmer, executed her first hack, which took her a few minutes then, now it's down to like less than 60 seconds.
02:46:37.000But in the same time frame, Johns Hopkins University computer scientists and security engineers got hold of that software and they did a very intensive study and the short conclusion was, they said electronic voting was a threat to our democracy.
02:46:55.000Of course, they should have said republic, but anyway.
02:46:59.000I mean, this is mathematicians, this is computer science experts, engineers, looking at this.
02:47:07.000And just a program note, I said we'd take calls, but what happened is everybody called in from the first two hours that wanted to call, because I had five guests on today, and then no one's even able to get through to talk to you, Vicki Karp.
02:47:21.000So I'm just going to let all the callers go right now, and maybe, If somebody is able to get through who wants to talk to Vicki Carb about her work or about Harris' work or any of it, then you'll be welcome to 1-800-259-9231.
02:47:36.000We'll take one or two calls in the next segment.
02:47:42.000Normally, I take calls throughout the whole three hours, but some days we have guests on and I want to cram a few on today, but if it's not on topic, we can't.
02:47:51.000Because we're specifically talking about election fraud.
02:47:54.000And we have caught governments, mayors and others in good old classic fraud many times, but you're right, Vicki, that this is the mother of just institutionalized Stealing of our process, and do you agree with me that that's why we see such arrogance now out of government?
02:48:15.000Is because it's kind of an unspoken snickering that they know this is happening?
02:48:20.000I do, and I'd like to add on to that after the break.
02:48:23.000Okay, we'll wrap things up with Vicki Karp on the other side, take a few calls, and maybe have time to plug the videos and books that I hope you'll get.
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02:51:55.000Alright, Steve and Paula, all the calls we have time to take, both from Missouri.
02:52:02.000We'll go to them here in just a minute or two.
02:52:05.000Vicki, you wanted to comment on the point we were just making before the break?
02:52:09.000Yeah, about officials being kind of smug.
02:52:11.000I think that they have good reason to be because In the very Hegelian sense, the federal government has created a situation through the Health America Vote Act where they have states and individual counties going out there and purchasing these electronic machines so that they can get federal funds that are being held out there as a carrot and they have until January of 2006 to buy them or they don't get the federal funds.
02:52:40.000And this was all created as a so-called result, the problem, reaction, solution situation.
02:52:46.000It was so clear to me in the 2000 election in Florida, where I think that election was stolen, where the so-called hanging chad... And then Chuckie Simmer has a plan, and him and George Bush team up, and then they have six billion dollars, and then they put these in all over the country.
02:53:04.000It's only for certain special machines.
02:53:06.000Here's the federal money, we're helping.
02:53:09.000They have people begging for them because they're afraid they're going to miss out on the federal money.
02:53:13.000And the excuse that is being used is the reason why counties have to upgrade.
02:53:18.000Well, it's like taking money from the mafia.
02:53:21.000I mean, it's always going to be loan shark.
02:53:24.000But the good news is, though, Vicki, a bunch of states are saying no to those machines.
02:55:43.000Well, I can provide information, and we will have a website up soon, but I would say that if you want to, if you've made a note of that phone number, when we have our website up, we can give you links The information that we're using.