On today's show, Alex Jones takes a lot of phone calls from listeners, talks about the Aztecs, the Mayans and the Aztec empire, and how they were involved in human sacrifice. He also discusses the Iraq War and the massive amount of money being wasted on the war effort.
00:00:54.000Now already on this Thursday edition, the 21st day of December 2006, I'm going to attempt to control myself today and take a lot of your phone calls in the first hour and a half.
00:01:06.000Then we are scheduled to have one of the main anthropologists live in studio who worked on the film Apocalypto with Mel Gibson.
00:01:16.000And it'll be the last time I talk about Apocalypto at any length, but I interviewed her Sunday, and it was just amazing, but in the hour we had, only 40 minutes of that radio time on the new Sunday show I do, we were unable to get into all the facets I wanted to cover.
00:01:32.000And it's not just about Apocalypto, or the Aztecs, or the Mayans.
00:01:36.000It's about the mindset of the professors, the anthropologists at major universities that came out and said that human sacrifice is, quote, valid, That it is something that is basically good.
00:01:51.000I have the quotes here, and this is the attitude out of what I guess you'd call the mainline left, that every culture is good but Western culture.
00:02:03.000Well, I think every culture is independent of itself, but basically similar in that we have a blood lust.
00:02:11.000There is a wish for carnage and destruction and bloodletting.
00:02:20.000in Mesoamerica, and that's what those folks are and were, or whether you are a Germanic tribe in the hills of Deutschland, or if you are a Druid in England, or the Romans with their form of human sacrifice in the arena.
00:02:38.000Why does this run through the course of human history?
00:02:41.000We'll be talking to a preeminent anthropologist on this subject who speaks fluent ancient Mayan And she'll be in the studio with us, and she'll also talk about some of her interactions with Mel Gibson in the post-production of the film.
00:03:25.000They want almost $100 billion in supplemental spending package.
00:03:31.000That will be $170 billion allotted for the war next year alone.
00:03:34.000for the war next year alone, just for the war.
00:03:39.000We now have a defense budget that in the last six years has ballooned from $500 billion to $800 plus billion a year.
00:03:51.000Now when you hear on the news, you'll hear that the main spending is $600 billion.
00:03:58.000But then when you add in all the other supplementals, we are getting very, very close to $1 trillion dollars a year.
00:04:08.000One trillion dollars a year, and of course, most of that goes into no-bid contracts and scams, and the final juice is being sucked out of the country.
00:04:21.000The New World Order spider is basically finishing off our innards.
00:04:26.000My main goal is that when the Depression comes, when the massive crash comes, the globalists will be dancing around, posing as your saviors yet again, I want you at that point to at least know your enemy and know who did it to you.
00:04:41.000They've already knocked us over, okay?
00:04:44.000They've already hit us and hit us hard.
00:04:46.000But most Americans are delusional and don't know that.
00:04:49.000So we're here so that as things become more apparent to you, you will then become completely enraged and join us in the fight against the new world order.
00:05:04.000After a year in production and traveling to distant lands, my new film Terror Storm is complete.
00:05:10.000Shocking declassified government documents prove that Western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.
00:05:18.000Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.
00:05:25.000Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spies, Secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
00:05:37.000Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.
00:05:41.000It's an anthology of government crimes.
00:05:43.000Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.
00:05:48.000Get your copy today on Infowars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling toll-free 1-888-253-3139 or watch it right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv.
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00:07:01.000You can legally eliminate credit card debt, which has been fraudulently created by the banks.
00:07:06.000Since its creation in 1913, the Federal Reserve has not been held responsible for its own debt.
00:07:11.000So why should you, the hard-working American, be harassed for yours?
00:07:15.000There's a double standard when it comes to being responsible for debt, and unlike the Federal Reserve, the people of this country can't print more money when needed.
00:07:22.000Day of Jubilee has created a successful program designed for people that want to stop harassing calls and threatening letters from bill collectors.
00:08:17.000Modern mainline so-called conservative talk radio is there to neutralize conservatives To control your political energies and ensure that you don't get in the way of America going into receivership to the global crime syndicate.
00:08:36.000And I was driving into the work this morning and doing a few errands around town so I listened to talk radio about 30 minutes.
00:08:43.000And I heard two different national talk show hosts, as I was skipping around on the dial, saying, you're going to love this!
00:09:18.000Or, while they've got you all horrified of Kwanzaa, which wouldn't even get any traction if they didn't give it so much attention, or while they've got you worried about the boogeymen that the Muslims are going to get you, they say nothing about how the government, both Republican and Democrat, are doing everything they can to get rid of our borders and bring in unlimited amounts of third world populations from every corner of the globe.
00:09:44.000And I started the show with this yesterday and I'm going to do it again.
00:09:47.000I was on a national talk show with Lars Larson and he was defending the North American Union now.
00:09:55.000I'm a liberal conspiracy theorist because I'm against it and it's for the security of America and it's free market and let's just hand our infrastructure over to foreign companies.
00:10:10.000Of course it wasn't selling Every caller that called in while I was on agreed.
00:10:17.000They couldn't find callers that disagreed with me, so they just stopped going to calls, and then later in the show, the callers all agreed with me after I was gone.
00:10:30.000And that's because we've actually won the fight for the hearts and minds of the American people.
00:10:37.000I mean, I could start the show today with the fact that the Pentagon wants a supplemental funding of $99.7 trillion.
00:10:55.000That's 99,700,000,000 added to what they're doing.
00:11:05.000And we can talk about how the war is wrong and how it's designed to give America a bad name, how we're being used by the globalists to do their dirty work.
00:12:04.000They know the CIA assessment states that our troops being there makes it worse. .
00:12:11.000So why should I sit here and address the 22-23% of Americans?
00:12:17.000Or the 30% of the troops that want to stay in a foreign land so defense contractors can make a bunch of money and so the oil won't flow so the oil companies can try to keep the price of oil high.
00:12:33.000Because I was all ready to go on the air and, you know, give an impassioned diatribe against the war and go over the evidences, but the people know a lot of the evidence.
00:12:46.000So really the only illusion there is in the delusional 22-23 percent who are listening out there who don't care what the American people want, don't care what the Constitution says, don't care if we were lied to war, for them they've got to have quote, victory!
00:13:08.000It's a ego thing and you can tell them, Here's the Pentagon plan.
00:13:32.000Our government has been caught with its agents staging bombing attacks on the British, the U.S., and the Israelis to stir up sectarian violence.
00:13:39.000Do you understand it's a meat grinder into which our troops are being crammed?
00:13:44.000What you call victory isn't going to be allowed.
00:13:49.000And they still look at you and go, well I heard you say all this was going to happen, and you're right about it.
00:13:56.000A lot of these conservatives, if they want to be called conservatives, fine, you're a conservative.
00:14:00.000I call you phony conservatives, brainwashed conservatives, mixed up conservatives.
00:14:08.000I mean, there's not one of you out there that can say I was wrong.
00:15:01.000But no, that's why they don't declare wars anymore, and they've gone from 50 years ago, every American knew the President prosecuted a war, and did what Congress said, executed the war, till today, even most liberals think you're not supposed to question the President, or that he's the one that wages war.
00:15:21.000He's the guy that decides how the war is going to be run.
00:15:25.000That's why there's an Armed Services Committee in the House and Senate.
00:15:28.000They Make the decisions and the President executes them!
00:15:42.000So you got 78% of Americans in major polls, 78 or 77 depending on which poll, scientific polls against the war, The troops, seventy percent, want to come home.
00:15:57.000The government's own assessments, that they don't like to publicize, but our public, say our troops being there makes it worse.
00:16:03.000Pentagon battle plan saying, break it in three parts, sectarian war, build permanent bases, de-industrialize, spread civil war into the entire region, get the Arabs all killing each other, and it's working like a charm.
00:16:18.000People say Bush has failed, the war is a disaster, Well, it's a disaster for you when your son doesn't come home.
00:16:25.000It's a disaster for you when your son's going to get lung cancer from DU.
00:16:29.000And you're sitting there, you'll probably finally wake up then when his guts are pouring out on those sheets.
00:16:56.000When the government said from the start, victory was decades of war, never leaving, millions of dead Iraqis, 654,000 in the last three and a half years, that's victory.
00:17:13.000And America demonized worldwide The biggest media owner in the world, news-wise, is News Corp.
00:17:22.000Their newspapers, their television stations demonize America from Australia to Germany to England.
00:17:29.000But here domestically, it's so two-sided, folks.
00:17:34.000We, the American people, have gone from the most loved to the most hated by design.
00:17:39.000The very same globalists tried this with the Vietnam War.
00:17:43.000Fifteen-year war from 1960 To 1975, officially kicked off, but still no declaration, in 1964 with another staged event, Gulf of Tonkin.
00:17:56.000And so even those of you out there that support the war, do you support the will of the American people?
00:18:30.000No, we've got to win, and then the government can't even tell you what winning is.
00:18:35.000But if you want to go read what their actual... It's like the drug war.
00:18:39.000The cops will tell you, well yeah, there's more drugs than ever, and more people in prison, and more problems, but we're going to win this war.
00:18:46.000We just got to get rid of the whole Bill of Rights.
00:18:49.000The war was never meant to be won according to the stated goals of eradicating narcotics.
00:18:55.000The narcotics trafficking corporations that had a monopoly into this country had lost their monopoly and prohibition had ended so they lost that cash cow and so they lobbied to make narcotics illegal and to create federal police and arm them to go after drug dealers and that was back in the twenties and it's never going to end!
00:20:02.000Listeners of the network are familiar with the Federal Reserve Note and understand the risks of deficit spending.
00:20:07.000Therefore, with catastrophic events, it comes as no surprise that some banks have currently placed limits on the amount of cash depositors can remove from their accounts.
00:20:15.000A fractional reserve system means only a small portion of your deposit is held in reserve for immediate withdrawal.
00:20:20.000Deficit spending will skyrocket through FDIC if the government is forced to insure deposits during a bank run followed by a depressed economy.
00:20:28.000A current effort is underway by the Fed along with other central banks to increase liquidity for depositors.
00:20:33.000However, an increase in money supply without equal expansion in productivity can cause inflation.
00:20:38.000In order to achieve strength and stability, I recommend a conservative portion of all investments to be calmly repositioned into gold and silver.
00:20:46.000While paper investments currently have been driven by debt, gold on its own has held value for over 6,000 years.
00:20:53.000For more information call 1-800-686-2237.
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00:21:59.000David J. Smith for Newswatch Magazine.
00:22:03.000Did you know there's a secret group that wants the government to spend itself in the bankruptcy?
00:22:08.000Did you know that current President Bush has the largest percentage of increase in spending than any Democrat has ever had?
00:22:15.00038% higher than Bill Clinton's highest budget.
00:22:18.000We'd like to help you understand why these things are happening and more about Bible prophecy by offering you an absolutely free one-year subscription to Newswatch magazine.
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00:24:18.00097% don't want existing roads being seized and turned into toll roads.
00:24:24.00099% don't like Supreme Court rulings saying private interest can take your property if they lobby local governments openly says they can pay them off.
00:24:40.000Americans don't like what our government's doing.
00:24:44.000Almost 80% don't like the war, but it doesn't matter.
00:24:49.000So I just want the people that are pro-war, who think they're running things, and think they're part of the system, and I want you to really think about the fact that it doesn't matter what you think.
00:25:08.000And so I want you to consciously understand that.
00:25:11.000Because so many of these people who go along with the New World Order and make excuses for it, they think they're part of the power structure.
00:25:21.000They're associating their whole identity with George Bush.
00:25:29.000George Bush, Hillary, Chuckie Schumer, Reid, they're all for the war.
00:25:34.000They're not just for leaving the troops like they were.
00:25:36.000Oh no, no, no, Bush has said he doesn't want more troops.
00:25:42.000Which is exactly what the Pentagon was actually calling for.
00:25:46.000And now they're Shanghaiing, we've confirmed this, they're Shanghaiing regular Navy and regular Air Force out.
00:25:58.000of their services that they signed up for enforcing them into ground forces and they've got four carrier groups that have been in the Gulf for a month the Persian Gulf and we told you that was a threat in Iran well now the White House says I have the AP right here that this is a threat to Iran and again you got good old boys out there but it doesn't matter that you're there supporting it they don't even need you let's just be clear about that
00:26:25.000But still, it's important to look at your psychology, that 22%.
00:27:23.000You're good, stick a plastic flag on your car, feel good, and just go into the night.
00:27:30.000Meanwhile, there is a growing group of Americans who are true warriors who are here defending the Republic in its last minutes of light as night falls and as the true assault builds up inside and outside our walls.
00:27:48.000And I will repeat, I am here Yelling as loud as I can from my rooftop, from my hilltop, that the enemy is at the gates and within the gates.
00:28:00.000And the enemy within the gates, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Republican and Democratic parties, are doing everything they can to lower that drawbridge to let the even larger force in.
00:28:13.000And I am sitting here trying to grab and stab and bayonet neocons in the Infowar off of the levers As they do everything they can, just screaming with hatred right now, everything they can, tooth and nail, to lower that drawbridge and open those gates.
00:28:33.000And they're screaming that we're traitors, telling the undecided in the crowd, Help us!
00:28:41.000I have the clips here, and we've written articles about it, where there have been calls for Matt Damon to be arrested, There have been calls for Keith Oberman to be arrested and put in concentration camps.
00:28:59.000The neocons now in unison for Michael Savage to Rush Limbaugh to Fox News to Michael Gallagher to Laura Ingraham.
00:29:07.000They're now openly calling us American Al Qaeda and saying we all need to be arrested.
00:29:14.000I've had old friends who I've protested, you know, with going back ten years ago Walk up to me and tell me that I need to be arrested.
00:29:31.000Because we're trying to stop them from opening the gates.
00:29:37.000So, we're going to come back and go to David, Bill, and many others that are patiently holding.
00:29:41.000And we'll continue to try to man the gates here.
00:30:02.000Hello friends, Alex Jones here with an important question.
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00:33:13.000Another red tag man declaring independence.
00:33:19.000And ain't their bodies down on a bloody wall.
00:33:27.000We know that this war was designed to make hundreds of billions of dollars a year for the defense contractors on top of what they were making In a black hole, no-bid contract, nightmare land.
00:33:45.000We know it was designed to make the world hate us.
00:33:48.000We know it was designed to break up Iraq and hurt those people and commit genocide against them.
00:33:57.000We know it was about destabilizing the entire region.
00:34:03.000To have widening, even worse, conflicts in the future.
00:34:08.000We know the American people, close to 80% are against it!
00:34:14.000But you watch, we'll be there in 2 years, in 5 years, in 10 years, in 20 years!
00:34:22.000The New World Order doesn't like a war where we go in there with a line of tanks and take over the enemy and Just take over the government and set up a central bank and then get the resources.
00:35:05.000You're going to get your heart's desire.
00:35:07.000A lot of you at a sick subconscious level want to bury your kids.
00:35:11.000You want to be out there with the 21-gun salute and a bugler.
00:35:18.000You want to stick stickers all over your car and tell everybody how you're in the military and how your children are in it and you're big warriors and, man, you're over there fighting them dirty Arabs.
00:35:39.000I mean, just do not think for a minute that you're going to draft any of my family.
00:35:44.000Do not think for a minute I'm going to go breathe your uranium.
00:35:48.000Do not think for a minute that I'm going to be part of this in any way.
00:35:53.000And for the rest of the American people who aren't for all of this and who have seen at least enough to know it's wrong, I salute you, I thank you for being sane.
00:36:07.000And now we have to recognize what we're living in.
00:36:10.000On every issue, the government is doing the opposite of what the American people want.
00:36:15.000They have national polls on the New Freedom Initiative, even with the polls spinning it to make it look good.
00:36:21.000Forced psychological testing, forced drugging, for everyone ages 4 to 18, 90 plus percent in major polls were against it.
00:36:30.00090 plus percent in major polls, they ran the gamut, they were all above 90, were against the Real ID Act.
00:37:23.000So it had to get bad before it was going to get better.
00:37:27.000And so now we have to set about showing the American people how their will, but not just their will, what is constitutional is being ignored at every step of the way.
00:37:42.000The Democrats put out all that lip service about ending the war and getting our troops out of there.
00:37:48.000That's because they knew the American people wanted that.
00:39:17.000The Pentagon wants the White House to seek an additional $99.7 billion to fund the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan according to information provided by the AP.
00:39:25.000The military's request, if embraced by the President and approved by Congress, would boost this year's budget for those wars to about $170 billion.
00:40:52.000Now Democrats are swaggering around, going, well, we've taken control of the process, now we're doing what's right in the war, well now the war's okay.
00:41:05.000Overall, the war in Iraq has cost about $350 billion.
00:41:09.000Combined with the conflict in Afghanistan and operations against terrorism elsewhere, the cost has topped $500 billion.
00:41:15.000According to the Nonpartisan Congressional Research Service, The additional funds approved would push this year's cost of the war in Iraq to about $50 billion over last year's record of $70 plus billion.
00:41:29.000A description of the Pentagon request was provided by a person familiar with the proposal who asked for an anonymity because the person was unauthorized to release the information.
00:41:38.000So we've got that right there and we have top Democrats coming out Who want to increase trip levels.
00:41:49.000And that means trips that have been there three and a half years will start their fifth tours in about six months.
00:41:55.000Imagine you sign up for three years, you're going to be there four years later.
00:42:58.000So that kind of tells me that he has interest in that avenue.
00:43:01.000And also another frame of the show fixated on this large eyeball that stayed there for about five seconds and kind of drifted into the street level overview.
00:43:13.000No point to the movie of that being any kind of relevant.
00:43:16.000They just had a big ol' eyeball on the front of the TV just looking at you for five or eight seconds and I was just... I found that kind of interesting.
00:43:27.000With all the corruption, with all the knowledge of corruption, with all this long-term, dirty dealing, decade of decadence, when will these people be held accountable in serious measures?
00:43:40.000Well this is how corruption works, and the corrupt know this.
00:43:43.000Either they go for broke and take everything over, or they finally collapse and lose.
00:43:47.000So it's built in, it's incentivized for them to bring in total tyranny.
00:43:52.000And so it may just continue and continue and get worse and worse and worse.
00:43:55.000And they're changing all the laws to take your property, to take your guns.
00:44:00.000They'll twist it and say it's conservative.
00:44:02.000They're now saying it's for security to have a North American Union.
00:44:05.000So all the neocons are saying we must have it.
00:44:07.000You're American Al-Qaeda if you aren't for it.
00:44:22.000Here's the reality, you and many others are standing together shoulder by shoulder with the members proving it, that we're trying to expose these people.
00:44:30.000People are coming out, people are talking, they're not shutting up, they're not afraid to be an American and stand up for this country.
00:44:36.000that I believe still is the greatest country in the world.
00:45:22.000The show is called Infowars and that's the greatest title you can possibly put on it because it is an information war.
00:45:27.000I was talking to friends and family about Skull and Bones and how our president and John Kerry are the Skull and Bones and there's many people inside the high elite societies that are coming from this grooming organization of skull and bones, and they had no idea the guy was in skull and bones.
00:45:42.000They were thinking of this happy Texan who just praises Jesus, but all the while he was kissing skulls and eating on Adolf Hitler's silverware.
00:45:49.000And it's like these people have no idea of the underground lifestyles of these people.
00:45:55.000And when I tell them this, they're looking at me like, man, I did not know that.
00:48:19.000By 2000, all but two states were taking biometrics and had already federally standardized with a barcode, a magnetic strip, So what they do is they put it in place, then they make a law.
00:48:35.000Like Bush was already spying on American citizens, then he gets in trouble and tries to pass a law.
00:48:40.000Or he's already grabbing citizens and sending them to torture camps, then he passes the law.
00:49:05.000Then, in 2005, they passed the REAL ID Act that, under federal law, all states had to adopt federal standards and be integrated into the database.
00:49:19.000Well, most states had already done it.
00:49:25.000But, just like, here's an example, they have a regional Sports Illustrated.
00:49:29.000Well, they've got like ten different brands of Sports Illustrated.
00:49:31.000Basically the same articles inside, you're buying it from Sports Illustrated, but it has your regional look, your regional teams.
00:50:25.000Ten years ago, I went into the state driver's license facility in North Austin with over a hundred great Americans, and I laid out and gave a speech and said everything that was going to happen and held up the executive order and read it.
00:51:05.000After a year in production and traveling to distant lands, my new film Terror Storm is complete.
00:51:10.000Shocking declassified government documents prove that western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.
00:51:18.000Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.
00:51:26.000Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
00:51:37.000Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.
00:51:41.000It's an anthology of government crimes.
00:51:44.000Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.
00:51:48.000Get your copy today at Infowars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling toll-free 1-888-253-3139 or watch it right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv.
00:52:00.000More than 700 chemicals have been found in our drinking water And did you know that you can have greater exposure to these chemicals by taking a hot shower than when you drink the water?
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00:54:45.000The government has its cannons pointed at you, the police are militarized, are arrogant, have been trained to be against us.
00:54:54.000The military has been trained to take our guns, to put us in camps, and now we didn't have Alex Jones warning you about secret concentration camp programs.
00:55:01.000It's professors, it's talk show hosts, it's all these people can talk about and they lick their lips and go, one more attack and you're all going in camps.
00:55:11.000Here's a local newscast, and when I saw this newscast, I knew of course it would be on every other ABC newscast in the country, because they produce these nationally, then send the video down locally, so it gives it the illusion of local, but it's the same message.
00:55:25.000You must all take vaccines, it's the law.
00:55:27.000There is no more mercury in the vaccines, it's the law.
00:55:30.000The mercury's in the vaccines, it's good for you.
00:55:34.000You know, the national ID card is here, it's good for you.
00:56:58.000Oh, it isn't face-scanning cameras going up everywhere bad, tracking everything you do and where you go, it's that, oh, sometimes they give false IDs, we need to fix that and then it's okay.
00:57:09.000You see, to give the illusion of Non-partisanship or the illusion of not having an angle, they will create a false debate that isn't the central issue.
00:57:20.000Just another tactic, you know, all written in New York by the psychological warfare experts.
00:57:40.000Yeah, a lot of your top editors are CIA, Defense Intelligence, National Security Agency, or they're part of other big private think tanks that get government funding.
00:59:35.000Draw a picture of a gun in art class, you get arrested.
00:59:39.000It's all about taking behavior that is innocent and criminalizing instead of someone getting in trouble for hugging or something like that.
01:00:03.000We have a guest in studio, one of the main anthropologists on the film, Apocalypto, to talk about just humans' bloodlust, why this runs through all cultures, and about the film some.
01:00:13.000But I've always been into the Aztecs and what happened down there and the Mayan culture overall.
01:00:19.000So that's, you know, you've heard me talk a lot about it.
01:00:20.000That's why we're covering this on a few shows.
01:00:28.000In the U.S., Daimler Chrysler's Portland-based Freightliner unit will build a $300 million truck plant in Mexico, but then lay off 4,000 North American employees.
01:00:57.000Yes, Alex, this is Mark, and I'd like to go ahead and let you know this is Mark Clayton for anybody out there who thinks that you should be ashamed to associate with Alex Jones.
01:01:09.000I'm proud to have gotten through today to be able to talk to you, Alex, and I want to thank you personally for one of the most important pieces of journalism in exposing the Bohemian Grove in American history.
01:01:22.000I worked with the late William J. Gill in our last small and ignominious push to try to halt our march into a complete and total free trade empire, which we are now in and there is no retreat from.
01:01:38.000He personally knew people for years who went to the Bohemian Grove, and he never knew anything about this Moloch idol worship.
01:01:49.000I told him about that, and I brought your video in, and I showed that to him.
01:01:54.000Incidentally, just in case you're wondering, he's the man who is mainly behind influencing Pat Buchanan to abandon the neoconservative free trade ideology, and then come out with his protectionist stance for his 1990 ... for his first presidential run.
01:02:13.000So, when I showed him your video, Alex, he said... Now, this is a man who had a who's who of the people he knew in American history.
01:02:23.000He had a whole stack of biographies, a whole bookcase full of biographies of people he knew.
01:02:31.000He said, when he saw that, he said, this would explain all of the insanity I've been dealing with for all these years.
01:02:38.000He personally worked for Richard Mellon Scaife, one of the financiers of the conservative movement of our lifetime, and Richard Mellon Scaife went out to the Bohemian Grove quite often, according to Bill Gill.
01:02:53.000Now, it's no small wonder that Bill Gill was not invited to the Bohemian Grove, because Bill Gill is a patriot, and he would never sell out his country for a bunch of garbage, moloch, idol worship.
01:03:07.000Well, and it's not just the bizarre drunkenness and the sex and the Moloch stuff.
01:03:12.000It's also, we've gotten transcripts of the Lakeside Chats, which are all New World Order in nature, get rid of U.S.
01:03:18.000sovereignty, bring in one world government.
01:03:22.000Well, I really appreciate everything that you've done, Alex.
01:03:26.000I've started a website with my cousin.
01:03:28.000I've had seriously... Fire the website out.
01:03:57.000After a year in production and traveling to distant lands, my new film Terror Storm is complete.
01:04:02.000Shocking declassified government documents prove that Western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.
01:04:10.000Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.
01:04:17.000Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, Secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
01:04:29.000Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.
01:04:33.000It's an anthology of government crimes.
01:04:35.000Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.
01:04:40.000Get your copy today at InfoWars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling toll-free 1-888-253-3139 or watch it right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv.
01:04:52.000Hello folks, this is Alex Jones introducing you to the incredible Berkey Solar Charger.
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01:05:19.000Its multi-voltage capabilities, multiple adapters, and rechargeable batteries provide for flexible source of auxiliary backup power.
01:05:27.000Simply place the Berkey solar charger in the sun, plug in your application, and you have power.
01:05:32.000Disconnect your application, and the system automatically begins charging its own rechargeable batteries.
01:05:37.000Get the incredible Berkey solar charger for only $75 by calling New Millennium at 888-803-4438.
01:07:47.000I just wanted to say that I love you and that You work harder than anybody else that I've ever seen, but I have three questions, quick questions.
01:07:55.000Number one, there's so much evidence covering 9-11 from every angle, exposing it as an inside job and nothing's happening.
01:08:03.000Nobody's getting arrested, nobody's getting impeached, no jail.
01:08:06.000Number two, Bush just came out and said he needs more troops.
01:08:26.00084% of Americans in a New York Times, ABC News poll, Angus and Reed, very scientific, very respected, believe they're being lied to about the official 9-11 story.
01:08:36.00036% of Scripps Howard News Service, Ohio University, extremely respected, believe it is a total inside job, with 68% believing there's a cover-up.
01:08:46.000So, any way you cut it, the majority think they're being lied to, and a large portion of the public, when they get a cold phone call, and that's a scary call, how do you think the government did it?
01:09:00.000Studies show in polling data, that if it's a really controversial question, people will err on the side of conservatism, and I don't mean on the classical sense, I mean, you know, they'll say what's more mainstream to their mind.
01:09:15.000But still, All these prominent people have gone public on 9-11, more and more every day, every week.
01:09:22.000We've had a 9-11 whitewash commission.
01:09:23.000You know, first Bush didn't want an investigation, because he knew it would become kind of a Warren report, like with Kennedy, which the whitewash itself would be a road map to show the lies and the fraud.
01:09:39.000And so he appointed Henry Kissinger as the chairman.
01:09:42.000Everybody freaked out, you know, calling him independent.
01:09:45.000It now has come out that for at least four years Kissinger has been at the White House every week advising Rove and Bush on the most minute details.
01:09:55.000So imagine, Kissinger's running the White House and then he's going to be appointed chairman of the, quote, independent commission.
01:10:04.000And that's, again, another insult to our intelligence.
01:10:07.000And so they go ahead and have Hamilton Commission, the Keene-Hamilton Commission, two big insiders, just as big as Kissinger, just less known.
01:10:19.000They put out a 400 and something page lie.
01:10:23.000And so in the court of public opinion, they've been convicted of 9-11.
01:10:29.000But the problem is, the establishment is so corrupt, so many of the judges are corrupt, so many of the police are corrupt, so many of the grand juries are just rubber stamps who are told what to do, because they never research what their real role is, that this corruption just goes on.
01:10:45.000I mean, 20 years ago, people went to prison for no-bid, secret contracts to companies that their wife was a board member of.
01:10:54.000Vice President does it now, nothing's done.
01:11:22.000Nobody goes to jail, nobody gets in trouble.
01:11:25.000The American people get mad about Enron and Global Crossing and a few things, so they send Martha Stewart to prison for doing absolutely nothing.
01:11:34.000It's like she's got a crooked toenail and they're busy basically axe-murdering our society, but she goes to jail for the crooked toenail.
01:11:48.000And rightfully so, but he was just a front man for a big drug cartel, big money laundering op, and big intelligence op, and he dies conveniently.
01:12:04.00090 plus percent don't want the toll roads on existing roads, don't want North American Union, don't want national ID cards, don't want forced psychological testing and drugging, don't like airport screening, don't like any of this!
01:12:19.000But the government is going to continue to push it, the media is going to continue to push it, because they're owned by the big private banks, they're owned by the defense contractors that own big pharma.
01:12:28.000You know, I have a friend, a good friend who works for Continental Airlines in security.
01:12:32.000He said I could say that, just don't say his name.
01:12:35.000He's at the Austin-Berkshire Airport, and he saw News 8 Austin earlier this year.
01:12:44.000Interview, he said it had to be over 40 people.
01:12:47.000A huge line of people that were walking by.
01:12:49.000They were interviewing him, had the permission of the airport.
01:12:53.000Of course, because it was going to be a puff piece.
01:13:46.000The fact that they get on the TV and radio, and I know I've been beating this drum a little because it's important, and tell you it's the law, you gotta take vaccines.
01:14:17.000And so it's all the neocons and the fake liberal media all together telling us we're the minority, telling us we're bad, telling us we're conspiracy theorists, telling us we're kooks, telling us all this.
01:14:30.000And so if you expect some judge to order, you know, the Investigation, or to call in a grand jury, or some district attorney to, and for indictments to be handed down.
01:15:04.000From Arizona to Illinois, to Texas, to Miami, to California, to Minnesota.
01:15:16.000The code breakers, the interpreters, the FBI agents, up on the news saying, Up on the housetop, on the National Press Club saying, I'll be arrested if I tell you what I know.
01:16:25.000The other question was, uh, Scholar for 9-11 Truth.
01:16:29.000You know, I try not, just like I said the other day, other shows that are unfortunately failures, almost all the other Patriot shows aren't, I mean, are not even 1-10th.
01:16:39.000In fact, there's no show even 1-10th the audience of this one.
01:16:44.000And I wish that wasn't the case, but it's because people don't like to tune in and constantly hear gossip and dirty laundry being aired.
01:16:53.000I do not agree with Jim Fetzer on his Directed Energy Weapons Space Beam business, but I'm not trying to get in a fight with people.
01:17:08.000And I don't agree, and I think that Professor Jones is acting like a gentleman, and has had some things done to him that aren't right.
01:17:26.000I mean, you're talking about legends in people's own minds.
01:17:28.000I mean, if I thought I was the end-all be-all of 9-11 Truth, I'd be a legend in my own mind.
01:17:34.000You get a bunch of scholars together, 400 and something of them, and you're going to have fights, and you're going to have power struggles.
01:18:03.000Really, the news here isn't about of the, well, if it's 84%, I mean, we're talking about 230-something million people who believe we're being lied to about 9-11.
01:18:21.000So why should it be about two individuals?
01:18:23.000See, when I talk about 9-11, it isn't, I'm the only one you can trust.
01:19:10.000The stage is being set for the reemergence of gold as the common sense alternative to a fiat paper currency that gets weaker every day.
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01:20:51.000David J. Smith for Newswatch Magazine.
01:20:56.000Did you know that the Lennon School of Political Warfare has laid down a plan for a third world war that will destroy both Christianity and Communism at the same time?
01:21:06.000From the rubbles of this war, the Illuminati will establish their world government, prophesied in Revelation Chapter 13.
01:21:13.000Communism said they would pretend to collapse, and when America had begun to disarm, the combined communist world would launch a surprise attack and smash us with their clenched fists.
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01:23:15.000Yeah, a lot of people would think that if I came out and said, this group's good, that group's bad, all the years I've been savage and attacked by different organizations, or when other people were fighting with each other, that that somehow is a good thing.
01:23:31.000And overall it isn't because it actually just gives more attention to it and then sends people to the negative bilge instead of busy getting informed on what they can prove for themselves and then going out and proselytizing and waking up others.
01:23:46.000Let's go ahead and talk to, who's up next here?
01:23:50.000Lewis in New Jersey, you're on the air, go ahead.
01:23:55.000I just wanted to... I just had three items.
01:23:58.000I wanted to just run them off real quick.
01:24:01.000I just wanted to let you know I was looking into the whole vaccine issue myself and called Merck and I was actually transferred to their National Service Center, they said, for legal reasons.
01:24:14.000And that they, yeah, like you say, claim that the vaccines no longer have mercury in them, except for one, they've got the guy said, one adult vaccine.
01:24:25.000Okay, well I read the AP last week where they admit all the vaccines have it.
01:24:29.000What they did was make available lots that don't.
01:24:32.000They go, no, no, no, the vaccines don't have mercury.
01:24:35.000Well, yes, they have some available in small lots that aren't, but then the CDC and the Food and Drug Administration get sued by families asking them to take the mercury out and they say no.
01:24:47.000And then I have the AP reporting they've increased the amount of mercury, and then I have newscasts saying mercury is good for your brain, it's in the vaccines, keep taking it!
01:24:55.000Well, regardless, I've made the decision not to vaccinate, Mike, I have a one-year-old.
01:24:59.000Hey, look, sir, when you're there looking at the vaccines, just ask the doctor, how dare you ask, let me see the ampule, let me see it before you load it into an injector, into a syringe, and it'll say thimerosal, if it says thimerosal, that is mercury.
01:28:24.000And overall, as a society, as a species, we're safer when we grow backbones, when we get a spinal transplant, and just go ahead and go into this fight 110%.
01:28:50.000Did you ever wonder how an opera singer that hits a high note is able to shatter a wine glass?
01:28:59.000Well, the glass has a natural resonance.
01:29:01.000If the resonant frequency force making the glass vibrate is big enough, the size of the vibration will become so large that the glass shatters.
01:29:08.000Using this similar principle, Royal Raymond Rife discovered that disease organisms can be destroyed using different resonant frequencies.
01:29:14.000The BioSolutions Frequency Instrument uses the same technology for relief or elimination of pain and disease conditions with no side effects.
01:29:22.000The 2006 BioSolutions Plus is the easiest to operate frequency instrument ever developed.
01:29:27.000Its easy reference guide will allow you to begin using the instrument within minutes.
01:29:31.000Simple step-by-step instructions using pictures are easy to follow.
01:29:35.000Customer satisfaction is guaranteed or your money back.
01:29:54.000Listeners of the network are familiar with the Federal Reserve Note and understand the risks of deficit spending.
01:29:59.000Therefore, with catastrophic events, it comes as no surprise that some banks have currently placed limits on the amount of cash depositors can remove from their accounts.
01:30:07.000A fractional reserve system means only a small portion of your deposit is held in reserve for immediate withdrawal.
01:30:12.000Deficit spending will skyrocket through FDIC if the government is forced to insure deposits during a bank run followed by a depressed economy.
01:30:20.000A current effort is underway by the Fed along with other central banks to increase liquidity for depositors.
01:30:25.000However, an increase in money supply without equal expansion in productivity can cause inflation.
01:30:30.000In order to achieve strength and stability, I recommend a conservative portion of all investments to be calmly repositioned into gold and silver.
01:30:38.000While paper investments currently have been driven by debt, gold on its own has held value for over 6,000 years.
01:30:45.000For more information, call 1-800-686-2237.
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01:31:56.000From his Central Texas Command Center, deep behind enemy lines, the information war continues.
01:32:02.000It's Alex Jones and the GCN Radio Network.
01:32:08.000In the last 24 hours, the big telecommunications lobbying consortium globally has announced a bunch of different plans to openly begin shutting down the web.
01:35:04.000Protesters are asking for help to defend Internet freedom.
01:35:16.000The group SaveTheInternet.com delivered thousands of signed petitions.
01:35:20.000With a single refrain, save our internet.
01:35:23.000Every day as more and more citizens learn about the issue of net neutrality, they realize that the internet as they know it is very much at risk.
01:35:33.000SaveTheInternet.com is turning the tide in this battle.
01:35:36.000Exploding to over 800 groups from across the political spectrum.
01:35:43.000Artists, internet celebrities, and over 1 million internet users like us who petitioned Congress to protect net neutrality.
01:35:53.000Together we blocked an attack in the Senate in 2006 and sent dozens of internet freedom fighters to the new Congress.
01:36:01.000But the gatekeepers are launching a counterattack on Washington and on your state legislature.
01:36:07.000We need to raise the alarm now to make neutrality the law in our new Congress.
01:36:12.000Man the battle stations at SaveTheInternet.com.
01:36:24.000To sign the petition, call your congresspeople, and share this message with friends.
01:36:29.000And stay tuned for our plan to build a faster, more open, and accessible internet in 2007.
01:36:35.000Use the Internet to save the Internet at savetheinternet.com.
01:37:08.000The phone companies get up and lie and say, we need to start shutting this down and not let people do this.
01:37:13.000And their other big scam is the Internet's dying because there's too much traffic on it.
01:37:19.000But at their actual big consortium meetings in Chicago and Austin and London in the last three years, and we've covered their minutes each year, just typing the Internet is dead.
01:37:29.000They say they're going to shut down the hubs, shut down the systems, and make the old internet, the real internet, fail and then force you on the internet too.
01:37:39.000So they've got a bunch of different strategies in here to do this.
01:37:42.000To charge for emails, to charge if you're able to get around on the internet, just to go through their hubs when you're already paying for it.
01:37:49.000But also, just to start, it's kind of like they built toll roads right next to the existing roads.
01:37:55.000And just like in the real toll road agreements here in Texas with Sintra, they have agreements where if they don't make enough money on their new toll roads, they can shut down our roads to force them to use their roads.
01:39:25.000It's like a football game where they go, okay, now we're going to break one of your feet, we're going to tie one of your hands behind your back, and now you can get on the field and play with us.
01:39:59.000Also, I wanted to just ask for more people in Hollywood.
01:40:03.000If they know what's going on, you know, if they're aware of what's going on and have questions about 9-11 to come out, you know, start a group for, you know, Hollywood for 9-11 Truth or something.
01:40:57.000The popular mechanics type people and others that come out.
01:41:00.000First the government said fire made the steel melt.
01:41:03.000Then they said fire weakened the steel and made it buckle and fall and pancake.
01:41:08.000But they don't ever want to talk about Building 7.
01:41:10.000Underwriting laboratories that underwrote the buildings looked at Tower 1, 2, and 7 and said that fire couldn't do that.
01:41:17.000The firefighters on record, and we have video of it, said it was like a foundry, pools of molten steel gushing Now, you think jet fuel does that?
01:41:26.000It burns at well below a thousand degrees what it takes to even weaken steel.
01:41:30.000You have people standing in the holes where the hottest fires were burning, and they're not melting, but giant four-foot-round steel columns are melting to where it was like a foundry.
01:41:40.000The firefighters said it was columns just gushing liquid steel.
01:42:38.000Alright, there should be a webpage out there that basically, in layman terms, breaks down everything, all the executive orders, like 1100 or 1010990 that You know what I'm talking about?
01:42:58.000We can put you in FEMA camps, put you in slave labor camps.
01:43:01.000I mean, it's all in the executive orders.
01:43:03.000Well, my idea is to have something there that breaks it down really simple for anybody to see and then has a link to the page where you can see it for yourself.
01:43:11.000I've actually written an article and others have written articles where they do show executive orders and break them down.
01:43:26.000Any listener out there, put something together.
01:43:28.000Someone that does know how to make a webpage.
01:43:31.000Yeah, no, you can put a lot of the stuff out there, but new things happen faster than you could ever even read them, much less analyze them and post them.
01:43:38.000That's the problem with tens of millions of laws.
01:43:44.000The reason I've spent a couple of segments on different shows talking about this is because I'm just a minor buff, you know, been down to Some of the Mayan and Aztec ruins in Southern North America.
01:43:57.000Watch the Discovery Channel shows like everybody else.
01:44:03.000So when I was a kid, I got drug around quite a few of these.
01:44:06.000And I remember the tour guides and the archaeologists and the people and the books I read, you know, saying they sacrificed tens of thousands depending on which tribe it was.
01:44:15.000Saying that this went on for thousands of years, and reporting how they skinned people and ripped their jaws out and tortured them, and how they took hallucinogenic drugs and did all this stuff.
01:44:24.000And then Mel Gibson makes Apocalypto, and for condensing all these different cultures together into two and a half hours, I thought it was pretty darn accurate.
01:45:01.000It's offensive to Mayan people, not the ones we've talked to, folks.
01:45:04.000It's offensive to those of us who try to teach cultural sensitivity and alternative worldviews that might not match our own 21st century Western ones, but are nonetheless valid.
01:45:25.000I'm not against Mesoamerican people, but I'm not against Romans of today either.
01:45:32.000By the end of it, I mean, sometimes thousands of people in a week would die.
01:45:35.000They would just run the circus, you know, 12 hours a day.
01:45:38.000And this was more of a stylized murder.
01:45:41.000And by the end, they were throwing babies, women into wild animals, just mass killing, burning people on pyres, burning Christians.
01:45:49.000Sometimes they'd conquer a city, salt the earth, and kill half the population.
01:45:53.000I mean, those are real, written-down Josephus accounts.
01:45:57.000And so if I talk about the barbarous behavior of what humans do over and over again, this is the norm, not the exception.
01:46:03.000Mass sacrifice, fires, burning, war, murder, piles of dead bodies, bloodletting, hallucinating, priests, sacrificing animals, guts spilling out everywhere.
01:46:16.000Humans have this desire, have this taste, have this drive, and so when I talk about The bog people of Ireland, they find all the nobles with their brains bashed out and their throats slit in the peat bogs.
01:46:27.000When I talk about all of that, I'm not bashing the Irish.
01:46:32.000But boy, you talk about the Mayan, you talk about the Aztecs, you talk about these different cultures down there, they will get mad.
01:46:39.000They will get mad in a hurry because you're not allowed to talk about this.
01:46:46.000The Nazis had a culture of killing and murdering and skulls and death.
01:46:49.000And I can say I disagree with that culture and think it was pretty darn out of control and decadent and evil.
01:46:54.000And whenever they come at me with that, I come back at them with the Nazi thing and they go, oh yeah.
01:46:59.000So I just don't get her vicious attack on Mel Gibson.
01:47:02.000She says, first he went after the Jews, now he's done with them, he's going after the Mayans.
01:47:06.000Though this film had a lot of Mayans in it, Mayans that have seen it like it.
01:47:09.000We've got, and we're going to break and come right back to her, Barbara McLeod on with us.
01:47:14.000She is also a pilot who does stunt flying, done 52 continuous rotations.
01:47:22.000She earned her Ph.D. in anthropology in 1990, specializing in Mayan hydroglyphic decipherment so she can read and speak these ancient languages.
01:47:35.000She was brought in to vet and make sure the film was accurate with the language.
01:47:40.000I mean, he could have just done it in English like everybody else does it.
01:47:43.000I mean, Mel Gibson is trying to make this as riveting as possible.
01:47:45.000We're going to break in a moment, but Barbara, thank you for coming on with us.
01:48:21.000What are some of the things we can talk about in the next hour and ten minutes when we get back?
01:48:24.000Well, you've already kicked it off with the idea of human bloodlust, and I would like to zero in on how some of that bloodlust is channeled into rights of animal sacrifice and human sacrifice, which are also very, very common.
01:48:38.000In religions around the world, including our own.
01:48:41.000And I think we should talk about just types of sacrifice and how different cultures deal with this and how that ties into how the Aztecs and the Maya chose to deal with it.
01:48:54.000And to maybe push it ahead into an idealization of how do we deal with this bloodlust?
01:49:00.000How do we channel it in a way that creates peace and harmony and contains it?
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01:52:51.000Barbara McLeod is our guest here in studio.
01:53:03.000Out of the gates, I want to talk about what you did on the film so people get an idea about that.
01:53:07.000First off, I was just thinking, not only is Mel Gibson and myself, anybody that talks about the Mayans doing human sacrifice, the Aztecs, You know, either it doesn't exist or we're evil.
01:53:18.000I've had the modern occultists, I guess kind of the druid type folks, the pagans, email me, call me and go, there was no human sacrifice in Europe either.
01:54:04.000You know, if you've got somebody to go to war with, then you've got a way to channel it.
01:54:08.000But whether or not you've got somebody to go to war with, there have to be other ritualized ways of channeling it.
01:54:14.000And one of the more common ones that I won't say it's absolutely universal, but it's common in cultures around the world that have to our knowledge have had no contact with each other.
01:54:25.000It's the idea of scapegoating someone or picking someone of the community or something in the community on which all the sins of the community can be heaped and then that is ritually sacrificed as an offering to God or the gods and it helps to purge the community of sin.
01:54:45.000That's what they do at Bohemian Grove.
01:54:46.000They do a mock sacrifice and they say we're putting all our cares, all our problems on this voodoo doll.
01:54:53.000Right, and that idea is a very common one.
01:54:55.000I would say it's one of those archetypal motifs.
01:54:58.000Why do you think those old men at Bohemian Grove, I was in the crowd, they were taking it very serious.
01:55:02.000They were very solemn and, yeah, kill them, get them, get them.
01:55:05.000It was just an effigy, but they were getting off on it.
01:55:08.000Well, they've, I assume, I mean you were there, so I can only guess that they've already been drawn into the ritual atmosphere that Ritual creates sacred space.
01:55:21.000One goes into that sacred space in a formal way and you put certain aspects of yourself aside and you take on certain other aspects of yourself.
01:55:32.000You may put on a robe or put on those Boy Scout uniforms or whatever it is that they're wearing.
01:55:39.000And you take on a new personality and so solemnity, if that's part of the ritual, solemnity is going to be, you know, it's going to be consolidated by the community in that sacred space.
01:55:49.000So it literally spreads from person to person, the attitude.
01:55:53.000Yeah, it's something that they're also trained to do, that they learn in the process of becoming initiated into that, that they set aside certain aspects of themselves as they go into that sacred space.
01:56:05.000Yeah, Mike Hanson was going, oh, I like this, and we're all looking at him, and Mike was like, oh, this is nice!
01:56:09.000I was like, Mike, no, no, look, they're all real serious.
01:56:14.000Okay, we're going to break here in a moment.
01:56:15.000We have plenty of time coming up in the next segments, but just give us an idea of your training first, and then we'll come back, talk about how you got involved in Apocalypto, and then go into the film itself, then into the wider aspects of anthropology.
01:56:32.000I've been studying the Maya for about 35 years.
01:56:36.000And I did my initial training at the University of Washington in Seattle.
01:56:40.000I wasn't a Mayanist at that time, but while I lived in Seattle, I made my first trip down to the Maya area to explore caves.
01:56:47.000I was very seriously into cave exploring for many years before that.
01:56:51.000And so I jumped into cave exploring in Belize and started finding my artifacts in all the caves, as well as sacrificial burials or interments.
01:57:01.000Actually, they're not truly interments.
01:57:03.000They were just bones laid out under stones, or full bodies laid out under stones and left behind in caves, along with artifacts.
01:57:11.000And I became really interested in all this stuff, went back, finished up my degree in anthropology, went into the Peace Corps, and was hired by the archaeology department of the country, to study caves and to help develop national park programs, as well as...
01:57:27.000We'll finish up when we get back and then get into Apocalypto with our guest.
01:57:33.000If you would like a copy of this show, come to GCNlive.com and reserve it today.
01:58:13.000We'll be live Christmas Eve on the Sunday show.
01:58:16.000We're talking about the film Apocalypto and the Mayanists, that's the people that study it, I guess the subdivision of anthropology, who got upset by the film and then claim that the Mayan didn't like it.
01:58:26.000Though, the Mayans we've talked to and that my guests have talked to did like the film.
01:58:30.000And it's as accurate as you can get trying to condense all these different cultures into, I guess you could say, a two and a half hour film.
01:58:44.000And Barbara McLeod, who's an anthropologist, is here with us.
01:58:47.000She was telling us how she got into caving, how she got into anthropology, and she was continuing and then leading up to getting involved in Apocalypto, what she did there in the post-production, trying to make sure that they got the language just right, and later she'll be speaking in that language with us.
01:59:08.000Okay, well, I think that I got into the Maya through my very strong interest in caving and my exposure to these wonderful caves down in Belize.
01:59:19.000And I came back after that first trip down there as a Peace Corps volunteer.
01:59:24.000My job was to study the caves for the archaeology department, help them develop a national parks program, And also report back to the archaeology department about the artifacts that I was finding in caves.
01:59:39.000And it also allowed me to have firsthand evidence for human sacrifice, because the caves are full of it.
01:59:47.000So after five years of this kind of work, I moved to Austin and went to graduate school and got a master's degree and then a PhD in anthropology.
01:59:57.000And I started out in archaeology, but I actually slid over onto the linguistic side of the fence because I've always been very, very interested in languages and The Mayan languages fascinated me.
02:00:08.000I had a lot of exposure to different speakers of Mayan languages in Belize.
02:00:11.000Haven't you pioneered a lot of discoveries and developments now with your knowledge of the language?
02:00:17.000Not only in the studies of the languages, but also in the studies of the hieroglyphs.
02:00:22.000Because I was one of the early pioneers in the linguistic approach to hieroglyphic decipherment.
02:00:27.000Identifying the little bits and pieces of affixes that you see on hieroglyphs, and determining not only that they were verbs, but understanding what kinds of verbs they were.
02:00:39.000And so that really helped to break open the understanding that we have absolute grammatical integrity in the hieroglyphic script.
02:00:46.000It represents an ancient spoken language.
02:00:48.000So that's been what's most fascinated me.
02:00:51.000I'm, of course, very, very interested in what they said, but it's how they said it that really excites me the most because that's my frontier and that's my major contribution.
02:01:03.000Who is this art teacher at UT that's so mad at Mel Gibson?
02:01:09.000I do know her, actually, and she's a friend of mine.
02:01:12.000We haven't had a chance to talk about Apocalypto, and sparks might fly if we did, but I suppose maybe there'll be an opportunity in the future.
02:01:20.000No, she's very serious about her study of the Maya.
02:01:25.000She was a graduate student here at UT and she's kind of come up through the ranks and studied with a lot of well-known expert people and now she's a professor here at UT.
02:01:35.000But it seems what she's saying is, I just don't like the view this gives.
02:01:39.000She doesn't really say anything he's doing is inaccurate.
02:01:41.000Oh, well, a cave drawing they show is from an earlier period with a head being chopped off and blood spewing.
02:01:47.000She doesn't deny it isn't from that whole culture down there.
02:01:50.000She just nitpicks, you know, how he took, he had to condense these cultures together in two and a half hours.
02:01:55.000You know, I mean, you can't show 3,000 years of history in two and a half hours.
02:02:00.000Well, you can't even take a chronological slice of history all from one period and show it all in two and a half hours.
02:02:08.000And I think my sense of it, not having talked to Julia directly, is that what she's most reacting to, her knee-jerk reaction, is to the violence, that she personally can't stomach it.
02:02:20.000But that's like the pagans who call me and say there wasn't human sacrifice in Europe.
02:02:27.000Our religion doesn't have that at its roots, and I'm sorry it does.
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02:06:12.000There is no doubt the Iraq War, and I've said this many times, is a form of sacrifice.
02:06:17.000In fact, I've read, going back to the Hundred Year War between the French and British...
02:06:20.000Where the Royals are all cousins and they're riding to each other saying, we've got problems with our economy, we've got uprisings, let's have a war.
02:06:28.000Where it's spelled out they're having wars, as George Orwell said in 1984, really against their own populations more than it is against a neighbor.
02:06:36.000It's a way of unifying the tribe, getting their minds off ideas, Because elites know that the average person wants to wage war, even subconsciously.
02:06:49.000And so they use wars as a way to channel that energy out of the country against a foreign enemy.
02:06:54.000In fact, you were telling me off air last time we spoke about you guys talking to Mel Gibson, talking and, you know, discussions of, this is just like, and he also said that on national television, this is like human sacrifice over in Iraq and what's happening there.
02:07:10.000Well, he did express that opinion several times as we were going through the work in the sound studio.
02:07:17.000We didn't have an opportunity to talk about it at length because we're just taking short breaks, but he truly believes that the war in Iraq is a kind of profane mass sacrifice.
02:07:34.000In fact, I have a mainstream news article today about huge secret societies that are now discovering all over the western world.
02:07:39.000Helmut Schmidt, German Chancellor, wrote in his autobiography, Men and Powers, that, oh, I do rituals at a grove in Germany, but I love doing the rituals in California.
02:07:50.000Why do you think there's this need, especially in people that seek real power, to be involved in so much ritual, i.e., even if it's like Anton LaVey, I was watching a video clip of him the other day, and he said, oh, we don't really kill people here at the Church of Satan, we do mock sacrifices.
02:08:17.000You do it through bringing power in from elemental sources, and you use magic to consolidate and concentrate it and channel it toward the desires of the community.
02:08:30.000Well, I mean, that's my point, and that's why you're here and we appreciate you being here.
02:08:35.000Mel Gibson, you know, in his films, tries to point out real things that have happened or, you know, to take real things and consolidate them into, you know, some type of fantasy realm so it's more easily understood.
02:08:45.000But sacrifice and mock sacrifice and all enrichable runs our society, but somehow in modern Western culture, you're laughed at like you're crazy if you even talk about it existing.
02:08:57.000Well, I think it's clear that it did exist worldwide and that in large measure human sacrifice does seem to have faded.
02:09:06.000I can't promise that it's not going on somewhere.
02:09:09.000But we have a lot of evidence that in times past, a century ago, and certainly a thousand years ago, there was a lot of it going on.
02:09:18.000And I mentioned one purpose of it and another purpose of it I think it's just simply that a lot of people conceive of the relationship with God or gods as being one of giving and taking.
02:09:30.000That if they ask the deities for something, they give something in return.
02:09:36.000And a lot of people do believe that that something has to be something precious and valuable And the closer it is to one's own flesh and blood, the better, the more valuable it is.
02:09:46.000Well, it's like I'm a Christian and every night before dinner we say a prayer.
02:11:07.000And I mean, one of the reasons that they did it during the Vietnam War was so that their own Indian people who were over there in Vietnam could come home safely, not be killed.
02:11:17.000That they did it in order to have blessings upon their soldiers.
02:11:20.000So they use it for all kinds of reasons to serve the community.
02:11:24.000Now this is something that I say, you know, if you're going to give something of yourself, well, that's a different story than taking the life of something else.
02:11:54.000And it was a test, because when push came to shove, then a substitution was made.
02:12:01.000There was a ram caught in a thicket, and Abraham was told by an angel that the ram would serve as a substitution.
02:12:08.000I think that that was the charter for animal sacrifice in the ancient Hebrew tradition.
02:12:13.000We were talking earlier about Jesus on the cross really ending what we think of as, at that point, modern human sacrifice.
02:12:19.000Then it was modern, with his final sacrifice.
02:12:23.000Well, in the ritual sense of human sacrifice, yes, absolutely.
02:12:26.000I think that people who become Christians and who truly embrace Jesus Christ as their Savior and really, really transfer that bloodlust that they have to that expiation that goes with Christ's death on the cross.
02:12:41.000No longer have that bloodlust or want to channel it toward human sacrifice.
02:12:45.000Now, this may be stepping on a few toes, but if you look at the Crusades or you look at the Inquisition, you can see that even a church built around this very pure and beautiful idea Well, I think it's about the cult of power that Orwell writes about in 1984, where O'Brien's torturing Winston, and he says, we are the priests of power.
02:13:03.000within an institution that's built upon this pure transformation that we still, at the edges, have the ability to have it fall apart.
02:13:11.000Well, I think it's about the cult of power that Orwell writes about in 1984 where O'Brien's torturing Winston, and he says, we are the priests of power.
02:13:20.000And really, I think human sacrifice, once it grew from just sacrificing an animal because this is your meat, you're going to burn it, you don't get to eat it, that is, quote, giving something, to capturing your enemies and sacrificing them for terror and control.
02:13:34.000I mean, at the end of the day, it's just about that exercise of authority and everybody seeing that authority.
02:13:40.000Well, and I still think that there's an important line to be drawn between giving something directly of oneself, one's own person, one's own body, You can do it through ascetic practices.
02:13:49.000You can do it through the sweat lodge, for example, which is something I've participated in where you go and sit with the community people and just sweat and sweat and sweat until you can hardly stand it anymore.
02:14:01.000And there is a tradition within the sweat lodge of giving flesh as well.
02:14:04.000I've never done that, but I understand it.
02:14:08.000I think that that's on one side of the line and taking the life of something else is on the other side.
02:14:14.000And yet I do see that there's a bridge between them psychologically.
02:14:17.000And I understand how one is a step away from the other.
02:14:21.000How did it develop from all your studies from the societies 4 or 5 thousand years ago in Mesoamerica?
02:14:28.000How did it grow up to the Aztecs sacrificing thousands at a pop?
02:14:32.000Well, I can only guess that it's just, you know, when bloodlust still exists and it cannot be spiritualized.
02:14:40.000In other words, the tradition is simply to maintain it concretized and as the population grows and as the need grows, and here we have a situation of a very large population, in the case of the Aztecs, an expansionist population.
02:14:55.000I mean, they were, you know, they were into empire building.
02:15:11.000And in the case of very large populations, who are very dependent upon sunshine and rain to grow their crops.
02:15:20.000Friendly relationships between themselves and the supernatural is more and more vital.
02:15:26.000As the population gets larger and larger, because they become more vulnerable to any failure of those things.
02:15:33.000So if you have, for example, a drought and too much sun, the crops dry up, and you don't look at it as a scientific issue, but you look at it as a out of balance supernatural issue, then you're going to have to come up with some solution that propitiates the gods.
02:15:47.000And I really think that it's got to be Tied into that in some way.
02:15:51.000Sounds like global warming being caused by the sun, but they're going to tell us it's being caused by cars and give us a global tax, which has nothing to do with stopping global warming.
02:16:00.000Well, my personal view about global warming, and I don't consider myself an expert, is that there must be a very strong natural underpinning to it, but there's no doubt that we also contribute to it as human beings, because Human beings are, you know, we're... But a lot more than cars is just impervious cover.
02:16:25.000And it's also what we do to our rivers, you know, just as an aside from global warming.
02:16:29.000It's what happens in the way that we develop rivers such that when we do get a lot of rain, then those rivers are out of control because the rainwater doesn't have a chance to soak into the surrounding earth.
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02:22:03.000Before this hour ends in about 36 minutes, we will take just a few calls that are specifically about apocalypto or about anthropology at 1-800-2599-231.
02:22:15.000But specifically on topic, on issue, please, callers.
02:22:18.000Barbara McLeod, anthropologist, worked on Apocalypto.
02:22:20.000Let's get into Apocalypto, and let's get into some of the behind-the-scenes stuff.
02:22:24.000Okay, well, first of all, I worked on Apocalypto this fall.
02:22:29.000My first trip to Los Angeles was in the middle of September, and my fourth trip was at the beginning of November.
02:22:37.000And I know they wrapped up all of their post-production stuff about the middle of November, and I was on call here in Austin during that period, until they actually turned it all over to Disney, who distributed it.
02:22:49.000They sure did, and I think that they would have liked to have more time.
02:22:53.000So they were really scrambling during that last phase, and we were doing 10-12 hour days during that period, because there was just so much to be done.
02:23:01.000They brought in all the principal actors, brought them in from all over.
02:23:06.000A lot of them were living in Canada or elsewhere in the United States, and they had everybody in, including Rudy Youngblood, who is the star of the film.
02:23:34.000He's been in a number of other films playing Native American people.
02:23:37.000He was in New World, and he was in Black Robe, which was a really interesting film that came out about, I don't know, 20 years ago now.
02:23:45.000And, uh, and, you know, they're all really great people.
02:23:47.000I had a great interaction with all the principal actors, and I really like and respect them all.
02:23:54.000Then they brought in a lot of other actors, people that just, you know, hired for a show to come in and do voiceovers.
02:24:00.000And this is Mel Gibson going back and trying to get the language just right.
02:24:04.000Doing the best he can to get the language just right.
02:24:07.000Now, I was there to try to nitpick about the language, and if it had been my druthers, I would have nitpicked a little more, but we were dealing with a serious time constraint.
02:24:18.000But my job, since they were doing overdubs anyway, and the main reason was not so much that the language wasn't pronounced correctly, but that they had bad audio from the original production.
02:24:29.000And some of it had to do with the fact that there was just distortion or noise on top of the dialogue that they couldn't get out.
02:24:38.000They had a speedboat nearby in one case when they were filming some of the critical dialogue and they just couldn't, they couldn't wipe it out.
02:26:20.000And I mean, you really get... Yeah, you really get immersed in this.
02:26:24.000So, I was there giving linguistic cues and helping people, since we were overdubbing anyway, helping people improve the pronunciation, get some of those glottalized consonants in there.
02:27:12.000We're going to break, and I want to come back, and you're going to read two different scenes or sub-parts of scenes directly from the script in English, then in Yucatec, and this is amazing stuff, and then some more behind-the-scenes stories about the post-production of the film Apocalypto, still number one in the theaters, last time I checked, going into its third week.
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02:30:43.000I've been so busy the last few years making other films, I've never gotten my first seven documentaries on DVD. - I've never gotten my first seven documentaries on DVD. - Okay.
02:31:03.000Well now, Matrix of Evil, Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports Exposed, The Masters of Terror, America Destroyed by Design, my first film made in 97, and the Police State Trilogy, three DVDs, Police State 2000, Police State 2 The Takeover, Police State 3 Total Enslavement.
02:32:20.000Until the end of the year, you get five plus months, almost half a year free when you sign up for a year, Or a month, $5.95.
02:32:28.000All my interviews in studio, like the one you're hearing right now, all the local TV shows, my book, Paul Watson's book, all 15 of my films, in super high bandwidth down to low bandwidth for PrisonPlanet.tv members.
02:32:39.000Be sure and take advantage of that now.
02:32:42.000Going back to my guest, and then we do have a few callers here that we'll be able to go to who are on topic as well, Demetrius and Bill and others.
02:32:50.000Let's continue with getting into the film, and then also some of the criticisms by some of the liberal anthropologists, if you want to call them that, criticizing Gibson, saying it's too violent, it's scary, when in your letter you wrote to us, Countering them, you said he didn't show them ripping people's jaws off in ritual torture.
02:33:09.000He didn't show, you know, a lot of the things.
02:33:13.000I mean, is it accurate that they stuck people's heads on these poles, Barbara?
02:33:18.000Well, there certainly is some evidence that they did things like that, that they piled them up.
02:33:22.000I mean, we've got archaeological evidence of platforms that are completely embellished with carved skulls.
02:33:29.000And I've seen, from the work that I've done in caves, Piles of skulls that were undoubtedly decapitation sacrifices.
02:33:38.000And you can see that in the vertebra of the chop.
02:34:54.000And then he sits down in the chair and she's cutting his hair as we are working through the scene with the high priest upon the temple ripping people's hearts out.
02:35:04.000And of course in that scene you don't actually see the cut.
02:35:17.000They certainly could have made it worse, and there's a lot of Hollywood stuff out there that is visually much more shocking.
02:35:22.000Oh yeah, where they show the apocalypto.
02:35:25.000I think they really toned it down, and as you mentioned, there are cases of ritual torture that we know about that are documented for the ancient Maya that were not shown in the film at all.
02:35:35.000They could have made it a lot more graphic than they did.
02:35:37.000Well, the point I'm making though, from that story, is that the young girl cutting his hair didn't get upset.
02:35:42.000She certainly didn't miss a step in what she was doing.
02:35:47.000She's also looking obviously at Mel's head, so she doesn't do a bad job, but she was completely exposed to the whole thing and just carried on.
02:35:58.000Can we tell the story about the parrot?
02:36:01.000Don't say what he said, or maybe we shouldn't.
02:36:23.000And it was going to go, Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Chooking!
02:36:31.000And I trained one of the actors to say this, you know, so it was actually recorded.
02:36:36.000It was recorded by a couple of different people in case they decided.
02:36:44.000We'll see if people can puzzle out the riddle now.
02:36:46.000But anyway, when the hair cutter was done and she was packing up the lead, Mel said, well, you know, you didn't see any of this stuff.
02:36:53.000This was, uh, this was all, you know, secret stuff.
02:36:56.000And I kind of chimed in and said, yeah, right, you didn't see any, any heads rolling down the steps or hearts being offered to the gods and things like that.
02:37:38.000There wasn't time for a lot of anything.
02:37:41.000I guess the stories you told me sounded like a lot.
02:37:43.000There wasn't a lot, but it was enough to get a sense of how Mel feels about things.
02:37:50.000One of the other things that I contributed to, which ended up not being in the film, was that after the captives were taken and tied to those bamboo poles so they could be marched, do that forced march through the forest for a couple of days, I suggested that maybe we should have them shouting Curses and things at these people are obviously, you know, out to really screw them over.
02:38:13.000I mean, they've already devastated the village, killed half the people.
02:38:16.000And so I helped, Nicolas and I kind of collaborated and came up with a bunch of curses, you know, things that mayas say to one other when they're, either when they're joking around or when they're truly angry at one another.
02:38:29.000And so we cooked up a bunch of these things in Yucatec.
02:38:33.000Before we read these, I also wanted to ask about the different screenings that were shown to Mayim.
02:38:39.000Just to wrap it up, I think that once they laid the score down, they decided that they couldn't really use that material.
02:38:45.000There were other things that I helped to develop that ended up not being used, and I really think it has to do with just the competition with the score, and they decided that the score should just dominate.
02:39:07.000And that's one of the things that's so stimulating about it, and I think that's one of the things that has, in fact, angered the people who don't like it, is because they still are sucked into it.
02:39:25.000They didn't do that, but I've been to Chichen Itza with a ball playing court with hundreds of skulls carved in, and the Mayan, you know, archaeology professor who's giving the big tour says, oh yes, of course they killed, blah, blah, blah.
02:39:37.000But then you get up here and there's almost like a cover-up going on.
02:39:40.000Well, I haven't read Julia's article in a while, it's been a few days, but she does mention, I believe... No, no, no, she doesn't.
02:39:55.000But then you've got a t-shirt from a big meeting you guys had and I mean it's got heart chopping right on the cover with some green demon coming out.
02:40:03.000This is straight out of one of the Maya Screenfold books from the post-classic.
02:40:08.000Can you hold it more that way for the camera, thanks.
02:40:57.000It's probably a ceiba tree, which is one of the most important and dominant trees in the forest there.
02:41:04.000And that bird, we call him the principal bird deity, he's found throughout Maya history that we are able to document.
02:41:11.000And the murals, in fact, you made reference to the pre-classic murals that are somewhat copied in the film as they walk through the tunnels.
02:41:19.000There's a recent discovery of some just amazing Preclassic murals from northeastern Guatemala.
02:41:38.000They were in the process of building their empire.
02:41:41.000They'd conquered their neighboring people.
02:41:42.000What about the whole civilization itself?
02:41:44.000Well, you know, I think that as far as I can tell, you know, you look at the scale on which they practiced human sacrifice, And you look at the concentrations of people, I can't say that they were in a state of environmental decline that's depicted in the Apocalypto, because they seem to have it pretty well together as far as I know.
02:42:05.000But they were also definitely conquering people all over Mexico and down into Central America.
02:42:12.000Before we run out of time, let's go through this in Ucatec.
02:42:16.000Okay, well, what I have here is the text of the speech of the high priest.
02:42:21.000This is the sacrificing priest up on the temple in Apocalypto.
02:42:25.000And it'll give you some idea of what the rationale is.
02:42:28.000Now, this isn't taken straight from a Maya document, but I know that there were Maya people and a Maya archaeologist involved in writing this piece of text.
02:42:37.000I was not involved in writing it, but I was involved in helping the actor pronounce it again when we did the overdubs.
02:42:45.000But just let me read part of it quickly to you in English and then I'll give you the Yucatec.
02:42:50.000These are the days of our great lament.
02:44:41.000And then Mel said that that was something personal, you know, that somebody had basically beat him up when he was a kid and said almost or some story with a bully.
02:44:49.000So there's also an imprint of Mel Gibson kind of personalizing some things into the film as well.
02:44:53.000And that's a very common device or expression of storytellers to put part of their story into the film.
02:45:02.000Unless they're doing a documentary and trying to make it as objectively scientific as possible, Yeah, sure, the nitpickers.
02:45:07.000I mean, he just took a lot of real stuff, combined it in, and even put some of his own, you know, life experiences in.
02:45:18.000Okay, this is... I did this on Sunday.
02:45:20.000I'm happy to do it again because it's really my favorite piece of the script.
02:45:24.000But this is the scene early on when Jaguar Paw and his friends and his father encounter a group of people passing through that part of the forest.
02:45:41.000They've obviously been through some kind of Battle and they're trying to ask permission to pass through that part of the forest and then as they as they depart, they've traded to meet with some for some fish.
02:45:56.000As they depart, they say, our lands were ravaged, and then they pass on through the forest.
02:46:00.000Actually, they say, our lands were ravaged, and then Jaguar Paw comes back with, your lands were ravaged?
02:46:06.000And they say, yes, we're going to go and, you know, seek a new beginning.
02:46:09.000And at that point, Jaguar Paw's father calls him back, because he does not want him to go ahead and engage these people in this conversation.
02:46:18.000And hear about all the scary stuff, and then bring it back to the village.
02:46:22.000So now he gives him this lecture about fear.
02:46:25.000So, he says, and I'll give it to you, I'll give the English inter-linearly here.
02:48:06.000They always become completely dominating.
02:48:09.000And our own elite today is doing horrible, evil things right out in the open.
02:48:13.000But just like Aztecs or Mayans during this whole period, the general public just accepts it because we've been raised up in it.
02:48:21.000And that's why I think history itself is important.
02:48:23.000And I think Mel Gibson has really given us a window into a lot of things that were happening just south of us that most people on this planet, most even Mexicans in Mexico aren't aware of.
02:48:35.000We'll come back and quickly talk to Demetrius and Bill with their quick questions on the other side in the final segment.
02:48:40.000Demetrius and Bill with their quick questions.
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02:52:14.000I just started listening like three weeks ago.
02:52:18.000And everything you say is scary, but I'm glad to hear it, because I do believe that our government, you know, doesn't always look out for our best interests.
02:52:27.000And I kind of had this in the back of my head, but everything you hear makes more sense, especially the 9-11 Truth Movement.
02:52:33.000And a lot of people in my community and that I know are real ignorant about it.
02:52:37.000But regarding anthropology in general, there was a book I read by the author Eric Fromm, and he analyzes, like, The psychological side of politics and just human nature in general.
02:52:49.000And I would like to ask the doctor, what does she make of, like, different cultures that had killed an animal like a bear, or had did sacrifices, but at the same time, after they had performed the sacrifice, they actually did a ritual to, like, kind of honor the animal that they killed, as if they were... Yeah, Dr. McCloud, I mean, specifically, what is the question?
02:53:14.000I mean, I know that human nature, you know, she said that there's a bloodlust, you know, but is there something, you know, from studies of ancient cultures that shows that there's also like a side of human nature that really doesn't want to kill?
02:53:37.000Yeah, I see where you're going with that.
02:53:39.000My experience with that is mostly from Native American peoples of both North America and Central America.
02:53:45.000There is this idea that if we have to hunt, and we do because we are meat eaters, you know, we are biologically programmed to be omnivores.
02:53:56.000And so we do kill, we do take life, and a lot of the Native American people have a ritual.
02:54:02.000In fact, the ritual takes place Not only after, but before.
02:54:22.000What about the arrow correction with about three days at the end of the Mayan calendar, and I think it's ironic that it ends a month before, after Hillary's Before Hillary's term will be up.
02:54:37.000Well, I think it's really interesting that it's tied in with the winter solstice, too.
02:54:41.000I mean, I think that's the most interesting part of it.
02:54:43.000There's actually a two day correction to the calendar, and it has to do with the way in which the correlation was developed.
02:54:51.000And it was corrected when people... But let's be clear, you don't believe things end on 2012, and the actual Mayan documents that you've read from the stone shows that they just mean a new cycle begins.
02:55:03.000Well, I'm one of the people that's involved in deciphering the phrase from the last time it happened, back in 3113 B.C.
02:55:09.000So I know what they say there, and they say, we'll change, or we'll be changed The hearth at the mouth of the sky.
02:55:20.000And I know from other studies of my iconography... That means culture.
02:55:24.000They conceive of the sky as a house, as a deified house, and the hearth is the heart of culture.
02:55:33.000Yeah, so people running around saying, even if you believe what the Mayans are saying, and again, we don't, it's their religion, it doesn't end in 2012.