In a fictional nightmare future dystopia, the Ministry of Truth is based off of the BBC, where Black is White, Left is Right, and we are joined by Guy Smith, producer, director, and host of the primetime Sunday program, 9/11 conspiracies for the BBC.
00:00:14.000He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
00:00:18.000And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
00:00:25.000In the Encyclopedia Britannica 1999 edition, if you turn to yellow journalism, it details William Randolph Hearst helping organize and stage propaganda for the Spanish-American War, the enactment of the Federal Reserve, and many other globalist imperial programs.
00:00:44.000There's only one other media group in history known for being more associated with the government and propaganda.
00:00:53.000George Orwell, of course, fashioning the character Winston off of himself in the Ministry of Truth in a fictional nightmare future dystopia, fashioned the Ministry of Truth off of the BBC, where black is white, Up is down, left is right, and we are joined by Guy Smith, producer, director who made the Primetime Sunday program, 9-11 Conspiracies for the BBC.
00:01:47.000And, yeah, Chertoff's cousin, the Homeland Security Director, telling me it wasn't a hit piece, and then it was.
00:01:55.000I was talking about a previous Previous hit piece.
00:01:58.000Guy, you told me over the phone that it wasn't a hit piece, but you also laughed and said you don't believe the stuff we've put out.
00:02:07.000I mean, can you honestly say that this isn't an attempt at debunking?
00:02:11.000Yeah, Alex, I really appreciate coming on your show, and I admire much of the work you do in talking about subjects that perhaps the mainstream media doesn't want to talk about.
00:02:22.000But we didn't set out to do a hit piece, as you call it.
00:02:25.000What we did is that we set out to investigate the evidence and to see where it led us.
00:02:30.000And if it turned out that some of the conspiracy theories were true, I would have gladly said that in the film.
00:02:36.000You know, we're not acting on behalf of any government agency, or, you know, we're not part of some conspiracy.
00:02:44.000Is it funded and controlled by Tim Downing Street?
00:02:47.000The BBC is funded by the public through a licence fee system.
00:02:51.000It's a complicated system which doesn't really operate, doesn't have any similarity to anything that operates in the States.
00:02:58.000But basically, people who have a television in Britain have to pay a tax.
00:03:02.000They pay that tax to the government and then the government hands it on to the BBC.
00:03:06.000And just two years ago they made the director of the BBC resign and apologizing for putting out pieces claiming that Blair knew about WMDs and other things.
00:03:15.000Now all totally admitted the BBC was right there.
00:03:18.000Well, I mean, that's a whole different story.
00:03:21.000But I mean, I can gladly talk about that if you like.
00:03:24.000But I guess the main thing is to talk about the program that we made last night and, and that you said a hit piece.
00:03:30.000And I'm saying, it's not a hit piece, what it's doing is investigating the conspiracy theories.
00:03:35.000And we did that in an objective and a balanced way.
00:03:38.000And we followed the evidence, we followed the trail.
00:03:41.000And we followed where the trail led us.
00:04:05.000Yeah, but Alex, you know that you carry a lot more weight than any debunkers, and when you come on air, you have a lot more impact than anybody who's an expert or anything like that.
00:04:16.000Very condescending and sarcastic and complete.
00:04:21.000You had your say in the film and you know many people will watch the program and they can make up their own minds.
00:05:10.000Shocking declassified government documents prove that western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.
00:05:19.000Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.
00:05:26.000Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
00:05:38.000Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.
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00:05:48.000Get your copy today at Infowars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling toll-free 1-888-253-3139 or watch it right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv.
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00:08:52.000I mean, you interviewed me for like three hours at the grass, you know, and you followed us around and we're taping off and on during a five-hour event at night, and the next day you interviewed me, you videotaped the two-hour radio show, then you interviewed me about two hours after.
00:09:04.000I talked to you constantly on the phone for weeks before that.
00:09:10.000My point is, are you denying that you had eleven debunkers and three 9-11 truthers in the film, and are you denying that they had a lot more time than we did?
00:09:21.000We interviewed three main conspiracy theorists, you, Dylan Avery and Jim Fetzer.
00:09:27.000Your views represent many other people in America, I accept that, and likewise those of Dylan Avery and Jim Fetzer, and they had a good say in the program.
00:09:39.000We gave them a lot of attention and a lot of opportunity to voice their views in the program.
00:09:45.000And the program then went to investigate the claims that you and the other two guys are making.
00:09:50.000And that's what we did in the program.
00:09:52.000If it turned out that the trail that we followed led us to a different conclusion, we would have said that.
00:10:01.000All I can report is what we found out.
00:10:04.000In the end, people must make up their own views as to whether they want to believe us or they don't.
00:10:10.000I'm not trying to force this down anybody's throat.
00:10:13.000I'm not trying to force anybody to accept what we're saying.
00:10:18.000I'm just saying, look, this is what we did.
00:10:20.000Why didn't you have, say, Kevin Ryan of Underwriting Laboratories, their own internal report said that 1,800 degree jet fuel couldn't melt steel that doesn't melt, and it was molten.
00:10:37.000How does 1,800 degrees melt steel that non-structural raw steel doesn't start melting till 2,554 degrees structural hardened steel until 3,300?
00:10:48.000And those are numbers people can just pull up instantly on any engineering website.
00:10:54.000Why didn't you guys include that in your film?
00:10:57.000Well, the reality is that we had 59 minutes and frankly we could have spent all day talking about just the Twin Towers.
00:11:05.000We covered a lot of ground in the program.
00:11:07.000Everything from the hijackers arriving in America before the attacks through to how the government tried to, the CIA and the FBI, tried to cover up their mistakes after the attacks.
00:11:18.000So, you know, we only have 59 minutes, just as now we only have this one hour for this program.
00:11:23.000There's not everything we can talk about.
00:11:25.000So we decided to concentrate on some things more than others.
00:11:28.000Now, clearly, one can make a whole hour just discussing the melting point of steel and exactly what happened to the Twin Towers.
00:11:33.000But I guess the bottom line with the Twin Towers is, are you saying that they were demolished?
00:11:40.000Now, if you were, then one has to look at why that happened and how that happened.
00:11:45.000And we looked into that and we came to the conclusion that the evidence just doesn't support that conspiracy theory.
00:12:06.000Paul Watson, you want to comment on the NOVA piece?
00:12:10.000Firstly, I would like to say that I actually counted 13 debunkers compared to so-called conspiracy theorists, so it was an even greater number.
00:12:19.000And I would ask Mr. Smith, why, when we've had government officials, scientists, first responders, MI5 agents on this show talking about our side of the evidence.
00:12:30.000Did he decide to give ten minutes to a producer of a sci-fi show that went off the air five years ago?
00:12:48.000Basically, that it's a modern religion of delusionals.
00:12:53.000Now, in the Nova piece, It shows... Paul, you've measured it and timed it.
00:13:00.000Give him the exact seconds, and it comes out to about 55 seconds for the towers to fall, but in reality they fell in a little over 10 seconds, so even the NOVA piece is false, Paul.
00:13:12.000If you take the conservative estimate and say the towers fell in 14 to 16 seconds, what we've got is Mr. Smith in the documentary near the beginning when he talks about controlled demolition.
00:13:24.000He uses a graphic animation from Nova, which is a PBS scientific documentary, which depicts the collapse of the Twin Towers at a rate of 6 floors per second, meaning that the total collapse of each tower would have taken around 66 seconds.
00:13:42.000So it's a patently false and misleading graphic to use and my question is, you know, will there be a retraction of this graphic which is blatantly false and misleading and only lends to the bias that was already decided on in dismissing questions about controlled demolition?
00:14:06.000I don't know, you're talking about it coming from NOVA.
00:14:07.000It was actually made by the BBC, that graphic.
00:14:10.000Well, the point is it was used on the NOVA program as well, I don't know.
00:14:14.000But the point is, if you're suggesting that the World Trade Center was demolished by explosives, then I would say, where is the cast iron evidence to back that up?
00:14:31.000Craig Bartmer, who was in the news, on record, giving citations, on the pile for 5 days, there when 7 collapsed, has reported, and I've got now over 15 firefighters and police coming on in the next week.
00:14:43.000We're lining them all up for one show.
00:15:55.000Okay, so we not only have that, and again, there's over 15 coming on the show, we've already had a bunch of them on.
00:15:59.000I've interviewed Bartmer for a video for an upcoming film in New York, he can barely breathe.
00:16:04.000Now, he tried to be interviewed by you, and you didn't want to talk to him, and he said that he was there, and they said, get back, they're going to bring the building down.
00:16:13.000Now, you just heard clips, I'm asking you, why didn't you want to talk to a police officer?
00:16:18.000Well, um, I don't know about that particular police officer, um, but... But you met him!
00:16:36.000Well, look, we could spend all day talking about whether there was molten steel or whether it was something else in the basement of the World Trade Center.
00:16:44.000But what you have to do is to look at the bottom line theory.
00:16:47.000Now, if you're saying those Twin Towers were demolished, I have yet to understand why they were demolished.
00:17:12.000The CIA, the FBI, Defense Intelligence, it was a giant intelligence building and it had the command center FEMA claimed they were there the night before, then they tried to retract, and Giuliani, in congressional testimony, admitted they were running Tripod 2, a drill of an attack on the complex, so they'd already moved out the night before to the end of the pier.
00:17:32.000But is it really plausible, do you think, that World Trade Center 7 would have been demolished, and five years later, nobody who was involved in planting those demolition charges wouldn't have spoken to their wife or girlfriend or come forward and admitted that they were part nobody who was involved in planting those demolition charges wouldn't have spoken Hold on, let me finish.
00:17:53.000How did they have Tuskegee for 40 plus years?
00:17:56.000Killing black men with syphilis secret.
00:17:58.000The atomic soldiers, the ringworm children in Israel where they radiated 110,000.
00:18:03.000The Manhattan Project kept secret with over 100,000 people involved.
00:18:08.000The people who were involved in that and black ops know they'd be killed the minute they went public.
00:18:13.000Well, I mean, yeah, you talk about the Manhattan Project, and that's a very interesting example, but it's something that's quite different, because here, remember, 3,000 American citizens died, or American and citizens from other countries as well, including Britain.
00:18:28.000So, you know, it's like, you seem to think that we're trying to cover something up.
00:18:33.000You know, we're not covering anything up.
00:18:35.000All we're doing is looking at the evidence in an objective, dispassionate way and trying to test whether it stands up to discrimination.
00:18:42.000Guy Smith, no modern steel building, and you can show some two-story thing in England or some two-story thing that's tar-roofed in Chicago, no modern steel building has ever fallen.
00:18:53.000Look at the Madrid, 100-foot white-hot flames, almost two days burning, no major steel members collapsed.
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00:23:49.000293 8024 that's 920 293 8024 and ask for Robert don't wait any longer to get your life back in order we don't need no education We don't need no thought control.
00:24:32.000We'll let you run for a few minutes, and I'll shut up and hear what you have to say.
00:24:35.000But I'd like you to answer this question, because we've answered yours.
00:24:37.000I kept begging you, please let me cover Operation Northwoods, the official U.S. Constitutional government plan to carry out 9-11 style attacks to blame it on a foreign enemy.
00:24:46.000I said Gulf of Tonkin was staged, now declassified, Operation Ajax in Iran.
00:24:52.000That's so important that there is a past M.O.
00:24:54.000You know, the people who try to debunk us always say, why would they do it?
00:24:59.000Trillions in oil, billions in opium, control, military contracts, domestic police state, just like Hitler burned his own Reichstag.
00:25:07.000You told me no, Northwoods isn't going in here, it doesn't fit into it, it doesn't matter.
00:25:13.000Now tell me why, if you made a film about the 9-11 Truth Movement, why you wouldn't cover the central issues of the history of government-sponsored terror and the history of plans to carry out terror against the American people.
00:25:29.000Operation Northwood is fascinating, and from a historical point of view, it's a very interesting story.
00:25:36.000But I have yet to see any evidence that links Operation Northwood to what happened on 9-11.
00:25:43.000There's no doubt that the American government and other governments, no doubt the British government as well, has been involved in all sorts of operations in the past.
00:25:52.000False flag operations, as you call it.
00:25:56.000I mean, as you mentioned, the Gulf of Tonkin is a very interesting example.
00:26:02.000But I have no evidence, and I have yet to see any convincing theories that show that what happened with the proposal of Operation Northwoods was put into practice on 9-11.
00:26:15.000Well, this is why it's important, Guy.
00:26:20.000Let's say a 6'2 grey haired man with a red birthmark on his left cheek is videotaped Robbing a bank and pistol whipping the clerk.
00:26:31.000And then the police run through a database of mug books and they notice that a bank robber who fits that description got out of prison six months ago and lives in the area.
00:26:41.000And they go by his house and they pull him over when he leaves and he's got the cash in the trunk.
00:26:46.000If you've got people that have done this before and plan to do this, my goodness, I think that's pretty darn important.
00:27:19.000I don't know, to be honest, because I haven't investigated the Canadian assassination.
00:27:23.000Well, the debunkers are losing because 92% of Americans in major polls know the truth now, Guy.
00:27:28.000Yeah, well, I don't know about JFK, to be honest, but what I do know is that I haven't seen any evidence that links Operation Northwoods to what happened at 9/11.
00:27:39.000There's no doubt, as I said before, that there are lots of operations that have happened in the past that have been carried out by the American government and other governments that are very unsavory.
00:27:48.000But that doesn't mean to say that 9/11 was one of those operations because I haven't seen the evidence.
00:27:53.000If you show me the evidence, you know, then I'll believe it.
00:27:56.000It shows that they've planned this before and they've carried out operations before.
00:27:59.000What it shows is that 40 years ago there were people who thought that things like this could be done and should be done.
00:28:06.000And then in 64 it was done with Tonkin and in 67 it was done with the Liberty and similar things, Operation Gladio in Europe, but let's just go back...
00:28:17.000doesn't prove that the present occupants of the White House and I'm not defending them anyway I'm just saying I haven't seen the evidence why would British SAS members last year caught dressed up like Arabs driving around shooting people with plastic explosives but well let's just keep on Operation Northwoods remote all I'm saying is that just because there was this plan 40 years ago it doesn't prove that the current occupants of the White House dusted it off and put it into practice in
00:28:43.000Even though PNAC said we need a helpful Pearl Harbor event and Brzezinski said we needed a Pearl Harbor event.
00:28:50.000By the way, Brzezinski said two weeks ago in congressional testimony that there may be a false flag attack blamed on Iran in this country.
00:28:57.000Well, I think the PNAC report didn't say we should have a Pearl Harbor event.
00:29:02.000It said it would help, minus that catalyzing event.
00:29:06.000And then Brzezinski said it would help.
00:29:08.000I don't think it says actually it would help.
00:29:11.000I think what it says is that it wouldn't happen unless there was a Pearl Harbor.
00:29:15.000Gene, we want to invade these countries.
00:29:19.000We need to use this disaster for a new world order.
00:29:21.000Well, I mean, I hear what you're saying.
00:29:24.000I guess people who disagree with what you're saying would say If it really was then a plot, why would the PNAC report writers publish their report in advance and put it all over the internet?
00:32:02.000Alex Jones here with an important question.
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00:34:28.000Our guest is Guy Smith, BBC producer, director.
00:34:31.000We appreciate him coming on and letting us go over the piece that he put out.
00:34:37.000And now I'd like to give Dylan Avery a chance to ask a few questions and then of course Guy can ask questions of him or make statements if he'd like and then Paul Watson to come back in.
00:34:47.000Dylan Avery, producer of Loose Change 1 and 2.
00:34:50.000That, by the way, we carry at InfoWars.com and PrisonPlanet.com, where you can watch for free at Google Video, as well as my film, Terror Storm.
00:35:00.000Dylan, do you have any questions or comments for him?
00:35:03.000Yeah, my first one is, how can I drop out of something I never attended?
00:35:09.000Well, your narrator referred to me as a self-professed dropout, indicating that I actually went to college and stopped attending.
00:35:16.000When in reality, I applied for Purchase College twice, and because the film program there is entirely selective, I was not selected.
00:35:23.000So in all of your research, I found it interesting that you couldn't even get the facts about me right.
00:35:28.000And of course, that's been one of the rumors is that you're this evil dropout.
00:35:31.000I mean, you know, so is Bill Gates and Rush Limbaugh and Dick Cheney for that matter.
00:35:35.000But the point is, is that you'd mentioned earlier you thought that would be in the piece.
00:35:40.000Yeah, guy, you talk about he's a self-professed dropout, but you don't have video of Dylan saying he was a dropout because he never went to college.
00:35:47.000Yeah, I know Dylan didn't go to college.
00:35:49.000I guess the way we use the term dropout in English, I don't know about American, is somebody who doesn't go the conventional route.
00:35:57.000It doesn't mean literally that you dropped out of college because I know that you... Let me bring Paul Watson up.
00:36:03.000Let's bring Paul Watson from Sheffield on.
00:36:06.000Paul, does dropout mean you never went to college?
00:36:09.000No, drop out implies explicitly that you went to university and were not able to complete the course ergo you dropped out.
00:36:18.000That's what it means in America, that's what it means in England.
00:36:20.000Well, it can also mean that you drop out of a system or you drop out of society, you know, it can mean a lot.
00:36:27.000Well, listen, I am a college dropout, even though I had a 3.8 grade average because I didn't need it.
00:36:33.000Now, Steve Watson that works in our research department has a master's degree in political science and foreign affairs, so he thinks it's an inside job, too, but he has a master's degree.
00:37:07.000you know there's nothing more to it than that well you know what maybe Paul in Sheffield it means different so maybe somebody from London born and bred London call in 1-800-259-9231 let us know does drop out me never went to college because in my book that's not what it means and Paul says you're incorrect Come on Guy, we know it's a snipe at Dylan Avery.
00:37:29.000You know, like he's some gutter snipe miscreant out there rubbing his oily hands together and attacking the beautiful crown's operation.
00:37:41.000We interviewed Dylan for the film and we showed how his film has had enormous impact and it's been viewed tens of millions of times all around the world.
00:37:48.000And we were trying to make a serious point.
00:37:50.000We were showing how now conspiracy theories can proliferate through the internet in a way that they couldn't have done in the past.
00:37:57.000Do you think there should be some type of regulation to stop this type of hateful spread?
00:38:23.000My first one is, you know, Guy, your narrator makes a lot of jabs about how we're disrespecting the family members and how we're going to continue to ask questions no matter how much it displeases the victims.
00:38:34.000Have you ever heard of the Jersey Girls?
00:38:41.000The head of the biggest victim's family group who lost his son in the attacks said that he believes it's an inside job.
00:38:51.000We have the transcript and the audio on PrisonPlanet.com and he said this last year and he said that more than half of his members believe it's an inside job.
00:39:39.000Well, I think the passports, as I understand it, were found by passers-by and handed in to the FBI.
00:39:46.000Oh my gosh, just like all the confession letters.
00:39:49.000Hey, I tried to get you to talk about how the Dean of the Defense Language School said three of the hijackers trained in a secret program in 2000 in Monterey, California.
00:39:58.000I tried to get you to cover Newsweek, where hijackers were reportedly trained at the Pensacola Naval Air Station.
00:40:04.000I tried to get you to interview Mr. Springman, the former head of the U.S.
00:40:06.000Embassy, who was told, let them into the U.S., they're really anti-terror fighters, and that their terror designation's a cover.
00:40:13.000Guy, why didn't that make it in the film?
00:40:15.000Well, there are over 50 different conspiracy theories around 9-11.
00:40:31.000What's the bottom line that you're trying to say, Alex?
00:40:34.000Are you saying that we're part of this conspiracy?
00:40:38.000Well, I'm saying that just like people in Russia or Germany or China couldn't believe the government had gone bad and then later they had to admit it,
00:40:47.000I think that you have a preconceived notion, a preconceived view, and I'm saying you disregarded most of the key evidence, like 44,000 US troops and 18,000 British troops massed in Tajikistan and Uzbekistan in the four months before 9-11, and Newsweek and Associated Press reporting that Bush, the day before the attacks, had the launch orders to attack Afghanistan on his desk.
00:41:10.000Well, I mean, it's very difficult to answer some of these points, because what you're doing is you're quoting things that you claim that you've heard, and there's some things that are on the internet and... No, they're mainstream!
00:41:24.000What about the two FBI agents that went to prison for insider trading before 9-11?
00:41:31.000Well, I don't know the details of that particular story, but I do know that there are a lot of stories that are circulating on the internet that are not based on fact.
00:41:48.000Do you know where the story of the Israelis not being in the building came from?
00:41:51.000It came from Harots and the Jerusalem Post, because Odigo instant messaging head said, yes, we got a call that something was going to happen, get our people out of the building, and most 9-11 researchers say that Israel clearly wasn't running the attacks.
00:42:05.000May have been in some small support role because MI6, Mossad, Chinmet, CIA are all joined at the hip.
00:42:11.000That's a real report that indeed there were warnings.
00:42:14.000The Arabs weren't in the buildings either because they had warnings and there were locals doing insider trading.
00:42:30.000Are you denying that Odigo's head was in the newspapers in Israel saying they got a warning?
00:42:34.000Clearly showing they weren't involved because they were public, going, you know, we got warnings.
00:42:38.000I think what you've done here, Alex, is you've raised a very interesting and important point, and that is that much of what is on the internet about 9-11 is based on news reports.
00:42:49.000Now, those news reports are not necessarily always accurate.
00:42:52.000What happens, as we've seen with the conspiracy theory alleging that 4,000 Jews didn't turn up for work that day, is that the story gets into the media and then it gets twisted and distorted, like what we call in England, Chinese whispers.
00:43:06.000And it just continues and proliferates and becomes more and more complicated.
00:43:11.000And what we tried to do in our research was to go back to primary sources, to eyewitnesses, and we presented that information.
00:43:20.000Now, I fully accept that many people who are listening to your program won't accept that.
00:43:25.000All I'm asking people to do, I guess, is to watch our program with an open mind, Well, Mr. Smith says let people come to their own conclusions.
00:43:32.000How is that possible when the program is laden with so much bias?
00:43:52.000My question is, how can Mr. Smith justify using the strong implication on numerous occasions throughout the documentary that questioning the official story of 9-11 is insulting and hurtful to the victims?
00:44:06.000How can he justify such a blatant and cynical attempt to emotionally sway the viewer when we've had Bill Doyle on the program, who is the largest representative, the largest group of 9-11 families, and it was a government cover-up in itself in the very hours after 9-11, The result of which, now we have a situation where 20% of the first responders are dying from that government cover-up.
00:44:29.000And by the way, major medical institutions admit their lungs are full of asbestos and concrete, and we have the internal EPA documents where they were ordered to shut it down and cover it up.
00:44:40.000That's been in all the major US newspapers, and we were called conspiracy theorists on that.
00:44:45.000The truth is, every time the government does something wrong, they just say we're conspiracy theorists.
00:45:24.000You had some psychological test on there where basically you're a bunch of shut-in nuts and it's a religion.
00:45:29.000And you had some fiction writer get up there from the Lone Gunman and the X-Files for the show, the producer, and basically say that it's a religion that we have.
00:45:40.000Steel doesn't melt until over 2700 degrees.
00:45:43.000And there were people in the wounds of those buildings, waving, begging for help, and then giant columns severed right next to them, and then there was molten steel.
00:45:53.000Well, I mean, again, I come back to the fundamental point.
00:45:58.000You're saying that it was an inside job carried out by the American government to start a war for oil in the Middle East and in Asia.
00:46:08.000I hear that view and I accept that there are many people who believe that view.
00:46:13.000All I can say is that having looked at the story, having researched the story, having talked to many eyewitnesses, we don't come to the same conclusion in our program.
00:46:23.000Hey, I've played eyewitnesses saying, get back, they're going to blow up the building, and I've got a bunch of other clips I can play.
00:46:28.000I give the actual witnesses, I give names, we sent you police officers, we sent you people, and you didn't interview them, and you make these large, broad-brush statements about how you've disproven what we've said, and it isn't true.
00:46:41.000Does Mr. Smith admit that there was a bias in editing before the editing of his program, and that he had already come to the conclusion Yeah, he told me that at P.F.
00:46:53.000Chang's restaurant that he didn't agree with me about this stuff.
00:47:00.000You're held to a higher standard as a BBC journalist to produce the Balance Programme and you've already come to a bias before you've even finished the filming.
00:47:11.000We went into this project with an open mind.
00:47:14.000And let's face it, if supposing during our research we had found that some of these conspiracy theories were true, We would have certainly put that into the film, because actually, it would have made a much more dramatic and sensational film.
00:47:26.000We'd be all over the front page of the newspapers this morning.
00:47:29.000Yeah, and then Blair wouldn't take a bunch of your funding again and make your director resign.
00:47:37.000Everybody knows they've been censoring the BBC!
00:47:40.000Hell, in your country, they arrested Robin Page for saying that rural communities deserve rights!
00:47:48.000I can absolutely give you an assurance that nobody is trying to censor what we were saying in this program.
00:47:54.000And if we had found through our objective research some evidence to back up the theory that World Trade Center 7 was demolished or United 93 didn't crash at Shanksville, then we would have put that into the program.
00:48:26.000He was talking about why people believe in conspiracy theories nowadays, and I think he made a very valid point about how in the past we found it difficult to understand what was going on in our world, so we created myths, and now what we're doing is doing much the same sort of thing.
00:48:58.000Now, I hear what you're saying, and there are many people who will agree with you, but some of the people who oppose what you're saying and who disagree with what you're saying may ask this question, and that is, why is it that nobody in the five years since 9-11 who is involved in that conspiracy why is it that nobody in the five years since 9-11 who is involved in that conspiracy has come Because it would only take a few hundred people to run the op.
00:49:24.000Many people that were involved, I believe they were involved in a simulation.
00:49:57.000They covered up, until they wanted to, 5,000 dead U.S.
00:50:02.000troops, just like the Russians covered up their true losses in Afghanistan.
00:50:06.000So don't tell me for a minute they can't keep Black Ops secret.
00:50:10.000I am absolutely convinced that if there was a Black Ops, as you say, on 9-11, it first of all would have involved not just hundreds but thousands of people.
00:50:21.000And I'm quite sure that that Black Ops would have leaked by now.
00:50:25.000That people, you know, tell their wives, they tell their girlfriends, they tell their priests they feel guilty about what they've done.
00:50:31.000This was a black ops operation, if what you say is true, that was against the American people.
00:50:37.000I'm absolutely certain that that story would have leaked out by now.
00:50:51.000And people like Sybil Edmonds who want to talk have been gagged, and FBI agent Robert Wright has been told he'll be arrested if he tells people what he knows.
00:50:59.000All he said is the Butch's vacation with the bin Laden.
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00:55:10.000Well, I don't know whether there's a one-world government being formed or not.
00:55:15.000The brief of our program was to look at what happened at 9-11.
00:55:18.000Yeah, but I mean, I had dinner with you.
00:55:20.000You don't think Dr. Kelly was killed even when he said he was.
00:55:23.000You don't think Diana was killed by the government even when she said it.
00:55:25.000I mean, she said, Charles says he's going to kill me in a fake auto accident, and you just poo-poo that.
00:55:29.000I mean, that'd be like if I said, Billy Bob says he's going to kill me with a battle axe, and I'm killed a week later and people saw Billy Bob walking away.
00:55:40.000Paul, quickly, fire your final questions at his lordship.
00:55:44.000Well, in a sense, Mr. Smith tags us with the label of conspiracy theorists when he supports the official conspiracy theory.
00:55:52.000And in doing so, he uses a sole clip of a firefighter on 9-11 discussing damage to Building 7's sprinkler system, while omitting literally dozens and dozens of reports both footage and from the official firefighter tapes who reported bombs at all levels of the Twin Towers and Building 7.
00:56:12.000And that is not part of his documentary which suggests clear bias because he's using individual clips to-- - Yeah, he keeps saying show evidence, we show it and then he ignores it. - The evidence that we presented in the program is the evidence that we believe to be credible There are many stories that World Trade Center 7 was demolished by explosives.
00:56:36.000I have yet to see any credible evidence that stands that theory up.
00:56:40.000Just as I have yet to see any... So the fact that it's bought in bombs is not credible?
00:56:56.000Well, it's interesting because as well as hearing from the likes of you, I've also had many emails and calls from people who are saying that we're giving too much air time to the conspiracy theories.
00:57:07.000So I guess It's like one can't please everyone all the time.
00:57:11.000No, no, we understand, and I appreciate you at least coming on this show.
00:57:15.000Real fast, Dylan Avery, final question.
00:57:18.000Yeah, you know, throughout the documentary and throughout this interview, Guy talks a lot about following the evidence and how he feels that he covers the 9/11 truth movement, when in reality, as you mentioned, Alex, there was a glaring omission from this BBC documentary that any objective documentary would have covered.
00:57:33.000Although he lauded the fact that two of the hijackers live with a tested FBI informant, he refused to ask Senator Bob Graham why, on the morning of 9-11, He was meeting with George Tenet of the CIA and the head of the Pakistani ISI who had wired Mohammed Anna, the lead hijacker, $100,000 right before the attacks.
00:57:51.000Yeah, the role of the Pakistani ISI is a fascinating story and that's actually something that we could well be returning to in another program.
00:57:59.000We might be making a whole program about that connection between Pakistan and the hijackers.
00:58:04.000Getting another bucket of white paint out for that, huh?
00:58:08.000I'd say watch this space because that is a very interesting story.
00:58:12.000Guy Smith, I appreciate you spending time with us, and I hope to get you back up in the future in the next few months as this develops.
00:59:06.000He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
00:59:10.000And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
00:59:19.000We first interviewed him almost three years ago, and he's been on the case for a lot longer than that.
00:59:27.000Yesterday, at the end of the broadcast, my radio producer walked in with the Salt Lake City Tribune headline, Nichols McVeigh had high-level FBI help.
00:59:36.000Here is the Desert News headline, Nichols says bomb was FBI op.
00:59:42.000We've known this from a massive mountain of confirmed evidence.
00:59:47.000since just months after the horrible attack that killed 163 people back in 1995.
00:59:53.000But now Jesse Trinidue, on the trail of who murdered his brother in federal prison, Kenneth Trinidue, and we have the horrible autopsy photos up on Infowars.com and PrisonPlanet.com, has literally been spending much of his life on this case, has literally been spending much of his life on this case, a successful attorney and lawyer counselor in his own And I just got in touch with him this morning after I learned of this last night.
01:00:22.000I went on coast-to-coast AM and covered it.
01:00:25.000And he joins us now for the next 30 minutes, and I hopefully will be able to line him up for an hour early next week so we can get into more detail.
01:00:35.000He's given us some of the documents, the case.
01:00:37.000Those are going up on Infowars.com right now.
01:00:56.000You, if I'm not mistaken, were the first one to broadcast this story back in 2004.
01:01:01.000Well, now it's really broken wide open thanks to your work.
01:01:04.000We've got three minutes before break and we'll come back in detail at all, but just out of the gate, tell us in a nutshell about yourself, about your brother, how you got involved in this case, and now the prison interview you did with Larry Nichols.
01:02:35.000And the government said it was, they tried to have his body cremated before we saw him, and then finally, We get him home, but we never had a motive, and that was difficult to say to people why the FBI especially would have killed him and tortured him.
01:02:50.000Now, we're going to get to that later, but in the process of your investigation, you've now got the documents, the affidavit has been sealed, so you can't talk about certain names, but before it got sealed by the feds in a desperate attempt to block this evidence from coming out, We do have the names, we do have the information, because you were able to tell different news reporters about this, in particular the Desert News, Desert Rain News, before that happened.
01:03:17.000So we're going to go over this after the break, but I want to get into how you got in contact with Larry Nichols, why he's now gone public, and by the way, his story fits exactly with what the FBI, police, investigators, and many others have brought forward in the What 11 plus years since the OKC bombing in 1995.
01:04:02.000Shocking declassified government documents prove that western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.
01:04:10.000Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.
01:04:18.000Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
01:04:30.000Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.
01:04:34.000It's an anthology of government crimes.
01:04:36.000Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.
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01:06:55.000He's the T-Rex of political talk, Alex Jones, on the GCN Radio Network.
01:07:00.000It is the 22nd day of February, Thursday, 2007.
01:07:04.000One of the most important broadcasts I've ever done.
01:07:08.000It is the 22nd day of February, Thursday, 2007.
01:07:14.000One of the most important broadcasts I've ever done.
01:07:17.000It was almost three years ago that I interviewed Jesse Trinidad, whose brother Kenneth Trinidad was murdered.
01:07:24.000That's how this lawyer got on the case.
01:07:26.000And my God, does it fit him with all the other evidence we have.
01:07:29.000Unfortunately, it shows that the Oklahoma City bombing of the Alfred P. Murrow building was an inside job.
01:07:36.000Here's the headline out of the Desert News.
01:07:38.000And before the filing was sealed, the reporters were able to see it.
01:07:43.000Now, our guest is unable to specifically talk about the filing.
01:07:47.000And the most shocking allegation, the 19-page signed declaration by Nichols, assertion that the whole bombing plot was an FBI operation that McVeigh let slip during a bout of anger that he was taking instructions from Former FBI official Larry Potts, who helped run the Ruby Ridge debacle, very senior, personal friends, very high level with the then FBI director.
01:08:13.000McVeigh also said he was part of a secret military assassins team who had been recruited out of the military.
01:08:40.000Basically, I didn't start out to solve the Oklahoma City bombing.
01:08:44.000I started out to find out who killed my brother and why.
01:08:48.000It all started in the Probably December of 95 or January of 96 and I got an anonymous call.
01:08:55.000The caller said that my brother had been killed by the FBI, that it was a case of mistaken identity, that it was an interrogation and got out of hand, that my brother fit the profile, the caller said.
01:09:06.000Of a group who were robbing banks and to fund the tax, get the money to fund the tax on the federal government.
01:09:12.000So somebody had a conscience and called you?
01:09:17.000I thought it was far-fetched, unbelievable.
01:09:20.000And then about six months later I read a story in the Los Angeles Times about a man named Richard Lee Guthrie who was found hanging in his cell while in federal custody.
01:09:30.000He was supposed to give a tell-all interview the next day before he died.
01:09:37.000He was a member of a group called the Midwest Bank Robbery Gang.
01:09:40.000And the story said he had robbed banks to get money to attack the federal government.
01:09:45.000And they didn't have a photograph of Guthrie, though, just the story.
01:09:48.000And then shortly before he was executed, I received a message from Timothy McVeigh, who told me that when he saw my brother's photograph and heard what happened to him, he knew that the FBI killed my brother because they mistook him for Richard Lee Guthrie.
01:10:02.000And Guthrie, I believe, was John Doe, too.
01:10:05.000In the description for my Pejando 2 when my brother was picked up was white male, 5 foot 9, powerful upper body build, dark complected, believed to be in Canada or Mexico, driving mid-1980s Chevrolet pickup, dragon tattoo left forearm.
01:10:21.000My brother comes across the border in San Diego in his friend's 1986 Chevrolet pickup, Five foot nine, powerful upper body build, dark complected, dragon tattooed left forearm.
01:10:33.000The only other person I know of with that description was Richard Lee Guthrie.
01:10:36.000So they clearly killed your brother and Guthrie in prison with the same classic hanging.
01:12:00.000Let's walk through how you were able to get in touch with Nichols, how he tried to contact John Ashcroft, how the media was then blocked from ever being able to reach him, how you were able to get in, and what Larry Nichols told you.
01:12:11.000Well, Terry Nichols reached out to me apparently before he contacted me several years ago.
01:12:18.000He had written to Attorney General Ashcroft, volunteering to tell everything he knew about the bombing and the others involved.
01:12:26.000Not only did no one from Attorney General Ashcroft's office followed up with Nichols.
01:12:32.000They actually issued, apparently, an order barring him from all contact with the media.
01:12:37.000It was thereafter that he reached out to me and I was able to get in to see him and spend a day and a half with him.
01:12:42.000Describe how he reached out, what you had to go through to be able to meet with him, and what happened in an hour and a half meeting.
01:12:51.000Basically, I was able to come in under the radar.
01:12:53.000I'm sure that if they'd known why I was there, I would never have gotten in.
01:12:57.000But you're a lawyer, you're a counselor, that probably helped you out.
01:13:00.000I'm sure it did, but the real story is that this man apparently wants to tell his story.
01:13:06.000Now, I can't assure your audiences that what he says is true.
01:13:11.000You, sir, have more knowledge about the... I mean, you're relating things about the history of the bombing case that I wasn't aware of, so you apparently have studied this a long time and know a lot about it, a lot more than I do.
01:13:23.000Well, I made my first film about it in 1997, but I've just interviewed literally hundreds of experts on the subject.
01:13:31.000Now, I know they've sealed this, but we can talk about what the press has reported and any other facets you feel comfortable in getting into.
01:13:42.000That I don't feel comfortable talking about, but this I can tell you what is already out there in the public record as a result of this lawsuit, the lead meat.
01:13:53.000Uh, when you sue under the Freedom of Information Act, there, for documents, government documents, there are two exemptions that are bulletproof that you cannot get around, that you will not get the documents.
01:14:09.000That's, the other one, the other two are, uh, if there's an ongoing criminal investigation Or if the government has promised anonymity or confidentiality to informants.
01:14:22.000I was fearful that the government would come back, the FBI would come back and say they had reopened the investigation.
01:14:27.000In which case I would have gotten nothing.
01:14:29.000Instead they came back and told the federal judge that they had promised confidentiality to four informants.
01:14:36.000And please not to turn over any documents.
01:14:38.000Well the judge said he would allow them to black the names out.
01:14:44.000And the documents show that the FBI's informants were robbing banks and armored cars with Tim McVeigh to get the money to construct the bomb.
01:14:53.000And that one of the four informants was actually the explosives instructor who taught them how to make the bomb.
01:15:00.000Now to be specific here, this could be creating the history, the ledger, and this is what McVeigh said, they were staging fake robberies to create the illusion that it was an organic domestic group that was going to carry out the attacks.
01:15:13.000Classic black ops, where they go out and engage in criminal activities as a smoke screen.
01:15:19.000That's basically what some of the things that Nichols said.
01:15:31.000The, as I said, the documents are, it's not me making this up, the documents show that at least as recently as two days before the bombing that they actually called Elohim City asking for help, and this was reported by one of the informants, that four months before the bombing another informant had not only reported the plan, but had said that they had actually scouted the target.
01:15:57.000Now, Hal was one of the informants earlier, and she tried to warn them, and then they tried to arrest her and charge her, telling her to shut up.
01:16:05.000They did prosecute her, but she wasn't convicted.
01:16:11.000And, uh, so many of these things had, uh, I would not have gotten where I am today on this, but for people have, and I don't know who has done it, had leaked me copies of records.
01:16:23.000There's a lot of feds that don't like killing kids in a daycare.
01:16:28.000And that made my case in front of the federal judges.
01:16:31.000I had, unknown to the FBI, I had two copies, two documents already about this operation.
01:16:38.000And so when I asked for the records, they came back, the FBI did, and reported to the judge that there were no such documents.
01:16:46.000And then I filed those two copies, and then the FBI came back and said that they were fake, and I had an affidavit from an FBI agent who said they were real.
01:16:54.000And with that, the judge lost all patience with the FBI.
01:16:59.000And then later, didn't it turn out that similar documents and some of the same documents had been released before, but without some of the names blacked out, and then that proved they were real?
01:18:21.000And I was surprised how quickly they were able to get everything sealed.
01:18:27.000Final segment with you, sir, after this quick break.
01:18:29.000Other key facets we'll walk through and delineate here with our guest, attorney-at-law Jesse Trinidou, whose brother was brutally tortured to death, Kenneth Trinidou.
01:18:43.000The bottom line is, no man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on a-coming.
01:18:49.000Texas Ranger Captain Bill McDonald, we'll be right back.
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01:23:25.000What's going to happen with this 19-page affidavit that has been filed?
01:23:31.000And what are some of the materials you sent us today that we posted on InfoWars.com?
01:23:35.000Well, first of all, again, Mr. Jones, I want to thank you for, may have been the first, I think you were the first person to report this story back in 2004 and didn't say it was crazy.
01:23:47.000What I filed that affidavit for was to get an order from the judge to allow me to take the deposition of Terry Nichols and to videotape that deposition.
01:23:56.000That's the only way his story will ever get out there.
01:24:39.000But Steven Jones didn't bring that out?
01:24:41.000I don't think they were allowed to bring it out.
01:24:43.000If I recall correctly, and I wasn't paying attention to the trial, that the judges would not allow any evidence of other people being involved.
01:24:49.000Well, bottom line, Nichols and yourself are in grave danger while this is sealed, and I know you can't violate this federal proceeding in a seal order, but I mean, these documents, you just said it, the defense detailing inside job, did the federal documents detail that?
01:25:16.000Bottom line, your educated inside view of this, off the cuff, why do you think the government was involved orchestrating this?
01:25:25.000Well, I don't know if they intended it.
01:25:28.000I think, my feeling is that the FBI had Fumbled the ball so badly at Waco and Ruby Ridge that I do remember this, that they were under constant pressure and criticism from Congress and from the media and from the public.
01:25:45.000I think they put together this harebrained idea at Elohim City to lure in all these militia groups under the pretense of teaching them how to rob banks and armored cars and attack the federal government.
01:25:57.000And I think they planned to catch them in the act.
01:25:59.000I don't, for a moment, think they intended The bombing to take place?
01:26:04.000Well, that's what the VATF tried to leak and claim.
01:26:08.000The same thing every time they get caught in England with British Intel carrying out tax, they always claim they just missed it.
01:26:15.000And let me tell you, sir, I've studied this.
01:26:18.000They may tell some of their VATF that showed up in bomb gear a minute after the bomb went off, but for the insiders, they meant to bomb it the whole time.
01:26:26.000You know, that building was blown from the inside out.
01:26:29.000Well, I'm not an explosive instructor, but my personal view is that it got away from him.
01:26:55.000I mean, I've seen this a hundred times.
01:26:56.000In fact, I've never really seen a big case where it isn't the Feds running it.
01:27:02.000Well, my experience, at least in this case, has been whenever you have three people who get together to criticize the federal government, two of them will be informants.
01:27:12.000We've got about a minute and a half left.
01:27:13.000Any other key points you'd like to add, sir?
01:27:15.000Other than that they've not denied it.
01:27:18.000I mean, the accusations I've made against the FBI are that they set up this operation, that they had informants who robbed banks with McVeigh to fund the attack, that they had an informant who was the explosive instructor and taught them how to make the bomb, and they got away from them.
01:27:33.000They have not once denied those accusations.
01:27:35.000They have just begged this federal judge not to order the release of the documents.
01:27:40.000Now, clearly, if I made those accusations against you, wouldn't you have denied them?
01:27:45.000Then we have Danny Colson who claimed he got up there in just an hour or so from Dallas by car with the hotel receipt that he was there the night before.
01:27:53.000One other thing I might add is it's my understanding that the BBC is going to run an hour special on the bombing and perhaps the government's involvement.
01:28:57.000Being in government means never having to say you're sorry.
01:29:00.000What part of unconstitutional do you not understand, George?
01:29:04.000In today's world full of tyranny and injustice, sometimes it seems the only thing we still have is our freedom of speech.
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01:32:06.000To paraphrase that passage in the Bible, there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed.
01:32:14.000You throw something into the deepest depths of the ocean, it will one day be tossed back onto the shore.
01:32:21.000Again, I just think about my job, what I do.
01:32:26.000This morning, as I was scrambling, setting up this guest, and reading news articles, and going back and doing research, refreshing my memory, I just literally almost hit my knees and thank God that I'm in this position.
01:32:41.000I never thought that I would be a radio broadcaster internationally.
01:32:48.000I never thought I'd be doing what those old gumshoes did long ago, what the straw hat reporters did.
01:32:55.000And here we are, 21st century front line muck records engaging the New World Order at point-blank range.
01:33:07.000It's scary too to do what we do because we're going toe-to-toe with these guys.
01:33:11.000We're going against them 110% to bring them down.
01:33:14.000I would have been all over this story and been on the phone with Trinidou yesterday and I would have had Trinidou on Coast-to-Coast AM with me last night.
01:33:20.000I didn't even think to call Coast-to-Coast AM to get on the show.
01:33:24.000I didn't think to even call Trinidad, even though he was in the article, and I broke the story, as you heard him say, because I was too busy down at the law office filing lawsuits on someone, which makes me even madder at them for the lies they put out, that I have to spend all this money to get my good name back!
01:34:17.000The Wisconsin professor who's been all over national and international television exposing 9-11.
01:34:22.000And then I don't even know now if I want to have that Cliff Kincaid, neocons, conservatives clothing on in the third hour, but I've got him coming on just so you can hear the type of stuff these people put out.
01:34:50.000Let me just read over these articles now to give you some more background on Oklahoma City, because this is a direct line into 9-11.
01:35:01.000Nichols McVeigh had high-level FBI help.
01:35:07.000Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols says a high-ranking FBI official apparently was directing Timothy McVeigh and the plot to blow up a government building and might have changed the original target of the attack according to a new affidavit filed in the U.S.
01:35:25.000The official and other conspirators are being protected by the federal government in a cover-up to escape its responsibility for the loss of life in Oklahoma.
01:35:34.000Nichols claims in the February 9th lawsuit.
01:35:39.000And let me just add, I was talking to Jesse Trinidad during that three minute break, and he added some more points.
01:35:46.000He said that he was out of time, he had to go to court, but that he never has been called a kook, never been called a liar, never been demonized by the FBI.
01:35:55.000They're just desperately trying to ignore him.
01:36:04.000The official and other conspiracists are being protected by the federal government.
01:36:09.000Documents that supposedly help back up his allegations have been sealed to protect information in them, to protect the informants, such as social security numbers and dates of birth.
01:36:25.000Nichols does not say what motive the government would have to be involved in the bombing.
01:36:33.000The affidavit was filed in a lawsuit brought by Salt Lake City Attorney Jesse Trinidou, who believes his brother's death in a federal prison was linked to the Oklahoma City bombing.
01:36:44.000The lawsuit, which seeks documents from the FBI under the Federal Freedom of Information Act, alleges that authorities mistook Kenneth Trinidou for a bombing conspiracy And that guards killed him in an interrogation that got out of hand.
01:37:19.000He's got the double point shock Wounds all over his body, under his arms, of course we don't post these, but genitals, feet, huge, what looked like electrical burns where the prods weren't working, so they just hooked something up to a wall outlet, uh, slit his throat, beat his whole head in, just, I mean, this guy's purple from end to end.
01:37:43.000In the app today, but Nichols says he wants to bring closure to the survivors and families of the attack on the Alfred B. Murrah building.
01:37:54.000He alleges that he wrote then Attorney General John Ashcroft in 2004, offering to help him identify all parties who played a role in the bombing, but never got a reply.
01:38:05.000Nichols, serving a life sentence at the U.S.
01:38:08.000Penitentiary Administrative Maximum Facility in Florence, Colorado.
01:38:12.000McVeigh, who carried out the bombing, was executed in 2001.
01:38:16.000McVeigh and Nichols were the only defendants indicted in the bombing.
01:38:19.000However, Nichols alleges others were involved.
01:38:22.000McVeigh told him he was recruited for undercover missions while serving in the military, according to Nichols.
01:38:28.000He says he learned sometime in 95 that there had been a change in the bomb target.
01:38:32.000It was going to be Nebraska, Omaha, Dallas.
01:38:35.000They were looking at different places.
01:38:36.000But there had been a change in the bombing target and McVeigh was very upset by that.
01:38:43.000There, in what I believe was an actual slip of the tongue, McVeigh revealed the identity of a high-ranking FBI official who was apparently directing McVeigh and the bomb plot, Nichols says in the affidavit.
01:38:52.000So again, two newspapers have seen this, now they shield it.
01:39:02.000Nichols also says that McVeigh threatened him and his family to force him to rob Roger Moore, an Arkansas gun dealer of weapons and explosives.
01:39:11.000He later learned that the robbery was staged so Moore, who was in on the phony heist, could deny any knowledge of the bombing plot if stolen items were traced back to him, Nichols claims.
01:39:20.000He adds that Moore allegedly told his attorney that he would not be prosecuted in connection with the bombing because he was a protected witness and there's federal documents.
01:39:28.000Moore could not be reached for comment Tuesday.
01:39:37.000In addition, Nichols says McVeigh must have had help building the bomb.
01:39:41.000The evidence that he and McVeigh built the day before the bombing did not resemble the one that ultimately was used, Nichols says, and displayed a level of expertise and sophistication that neither man had.
01:39:52.000There's a lot more than what this article put.
01:39:54.000You just heard the lawyer who's got the affidavit filed did the day and a half of interviews with him.
01:40:02.000Now let's read the DesertNews.com story.
01:40:06.000All these are up on InfoWars.com and PrisonPlanet.com with a whole bunch of pages of documents, federal documents, for the first time being posted at InfoWars.com right now.
01:40:19.000In fact, I'm told they've been up for 30 minutes.
01:40:28.000Boy, that's an interesting headline out of a mainstream newspaper.
01:40:31.000Detailed confession filed in Salt Lake about Oklahoma City plot.
01:40:38.000The only surviving convicted criminal in the April 19, 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrow Federal Building in Oklahoma City is saying his co-conspirator Timothy McVeigh told him he was taking orders from a top FBI official and orchestrating the bombing.
01:40:58.000...him that he was taking orders from a top FBI official in orchestrating the bombing.
01:41:04.000A declaration from Terry Lynn Nichols filed in U.S.
01:41:07.000District Court in Salt Lake City has proven he wanted the most detailed confessions by Nichols to date about his involvement in the bombing as well as the involvement of others.
01:41:16.000The declaration was filed as part of a Salt Lake City attorney Jesse Trinidou's pending wrongful death suit against the government for the death of his brother in a federal corrections facility in Oklahoma City.
01:41:28.000Trinidou claims his brother was killed during an interrogation by FBI agents when agents mistook his brother for a suspect in the Oklahoma City bombing investigation.
01:41:37.000The most shocking allegation in the 19-page signed declaration is Nichols' assertion that the whole bombing plot was an FBI operation and that McVeigh let slip during a bout of anger that he was taking instruction from former FBI official Larry Potts of Ruby Ridge fame.
01:41:59.000Potts was no stranger to anti-government confrontations, having been the lead FBI agent in Ruby Ridge in 92, which led to the shooting death of Vicki Weaver, the wife of separatist Randy Weaver.
01:42:12.000Potts also reportedly involved in the 51-day siege of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas in 93, which resulted in the fire that killed 81 Branch Davidian followers.
01:42:22.000He's now a former FBI agent, by the way.
01:42:28.000Potts retired from the FBI under intense pressure and criticism for the cover-up of an order to allow agents to shoot anyone seen leaving the Weaver Cabin at Ruby Ridge.
01:42:36.000When contacted, the FBI's main office in D.C.
01:42:38.000said it would not provide immediate comment on Nichols' claims Tuesday.
01:42:42.000Nichols claims that in December 1992, McVeigh told him that while he was serving in the U.S.
01:42:47.000Army, he'd been recruited to carry out undercover missions for the Secret Assassination Squad.
01:43:20.000You kill me, you got God to deal with, punks.
01:43:23.000In the next few years, the two men hatched a bombing plot in October 1994.
01:43:28.000McVeigh and I stole explosives From a quarry in Marion, Kansas, consisting of 8.5 cases of boxes containing 229 2.5-inch sticks of gel-type explosive known as Tovex.
01:43:41.000Again, they told everybody it was fuel oil.
01:44:00.000One example is that McVeigh allegedly attended a gun show in Knob Creek, Kentucky in 93.
01:44:08.000At this gun show, McVeigh had the opportunity to make contact with about 20 people who were bomb experts.
01:44:12.000McVeigh told me that he himself had no knowledge about how to construct a bomb, but that he always wanted to gain more knowledge about how to conduct bombs.
01:44:21.000Nichols says he knew McVeigh was building the bomb in November '94.
01:44:24.000He left for the Philippines to get away from the area to avoid being implicated.
01:44:28.000"I did not want to be present when McVeigh did explode a bomb.
01:44:31.000Consequently, I left for the Philippines to be out of the country," he wrote.
01:44:34.000This is basically the newspaper whitewash of all this, folks.
01:44:38.000Now, the statement contradicts findings by Congressman Dana Rohrabacher, who studied the bombing, has made public last year, It indicated nickels had traveled to the Philippines to receive bomb training from impossible foreign terrorists.
01:44:56.000You've got white supremacists, you've got militias, you've got sheet-dipped Special Forces McVeigh, you've got bank robbers running around.
01:45:03.000But you've got Arabs at the scene and those videotapes have been sealed, but I've interviewed the police and others and FBI's on record saying they saw the sealed surveillance tapes showing the Arabs.
01:45:14.000So then it gets so confusing, you're like, did the mob kill JFK?
01:45:24.000You have different levels of deniability.
01:45:28.000Then you got bombs inside that Jane Graham, who was the head of HUD, was going through one of the maintenance sides to get up quicker.
01:45:35.000She was late to work, and she saw guys drilling the columns, planting large sticks of gray butter the day before.
01:45:45.000After hearing about the bombing of the Federal Building, which killed 168 adults and children, Nichols said he panicked when his name came up on the radio and he wanted to turn himself in, but not before hiding evidence, including explosives, using the bombing.
01:45:57.000The claims made in the declaration have added yet more twist to the mystery surrounding the bombing.
01:46:01.000Some familiar with the bombing's history, St.
01:46:03.000Nichols' claims seem to indicate the FBI put McVeigh up in the plot as a draw for radicals, but that the situation got out of control and McVeigh became a runaway informant.
01:46:16.000I mean, how many of those British bombings, oh, we didn't stop it in time.
01:46:21.000Then you turn out the guy cooking the bombs, British intel, the guy driving it's British intel.
01:46:27.000We've had those men on the show, by the way.
01:46:30.000After reviewing the declaration, Rohrabacher told the Desert Warning News that Nichols' claims should be investigated, but a tree with extreme skepticism.
01:46:38.000I need to caution people to remember that Terry Nichols is a mass murderer.
01:46:41.000Of course, Rohrabacher a month ago was on CNN going, there's a conspiracy, a cover-up of Oklahoma!
01:47:01.000They were trained here by the CIA in the 80s, brought back in at the end of Desert Storm.
01:47:07.000Source, Washington Post, LA Times, Society Press.
01:47:12.000Then there's stuff like this, WorldNet Daily.
01:47:15.000Was FBI early arrival in Oklahoma City?
01:47:18.000Hotel receipts show top terror man showed up nine hours before blast.
01:47:23.000Danny Colson was in the DFW of Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex area and he said that oh he couldn't get on a Southwest Airlines in time to fly up there so he drove and got there in a record two hours but then people reported he was there in less than an hour after the bombing.
01:47:40.000Then it turns out he checked into a hotel Nine hours before the blast, the FBI's top counter-terrorism agent checked into an Oklahoma City hotel nearly nine hours before a truck bomb nearly leveled the Alpha P Murrah building, according to a receipt obtained by WorldNet Daily, despite claims that he was in Texas the morning of the attack.
01:48:07.000The Embassy Suites Hotel, Danny Coulson, then director of the FBI's Terrorism Task Force, founding commander of the Bureau's Hostage Rescue Team, was dated April 19, 1995, with a check-in time of 0.20, or 1220 AM.
01:48:18.000with a check-in time of 0.20 or 12:20 a.m.
01:48:56.000The existence of the receipt and subsequent questions it raises surrounding the F.B.I.' 's official denial of prior knowledge of the O.K.C.
01:49:11.000Since the bombing, listen to this, officials of the Department of Justice have repeatedly assured victims that the F.B.I.
01:49:16.000had no prior knowledge of any plot to bomb the Murrah Building.
01:49:20.000My paper said Wednesday, however, evidence of Coulson's clandestine trip fits squarely with substantial bodies of details found in hundreds of pages of other official documents obtained via Freedom of Information Act requests.
01:49:32.000The paper is evidence revealing weeks of planning by an elite corps of drug and counter-terrorism experts who were closely monitoring members of various far-right groups that considered religious extremists and threats to the safety and security of our nation.
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01:50:56.000It's here, after a year in production and traveling to distant lands, my new film Terror Storm is complete.
01:51:02.000Shocking declassified government documents prove that western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.
01:51:10.000Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.
01:51:18.000Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
01:51:29.000Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.
01:51:33.000It's an anthology of government crimes.
01:51:36.000Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.
01:51:40.000Get your copy today on Infowars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling toll-free 1-888-253-3139 or watch it right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv.
01:52:18.000Yeah, I know you're picky about not having pathogenic bacteria, organic chemicals, heavy metals or foul tastes and odors in the water, so I packed our Sport Berkey Purifiers!
01:52:29.000You know, this is a terrific cabin, and wow, have you noticed the beautiful weather?
01:53:21.000Before we end this hour, I do want to remind all of you that I'm a documentary filmmaker, and my film, Road to Tyranny, was the first film out on 9-11.
01:53:32.000I put out an emergency version of it that was only available for a few months two weeks after 9-11 which was just a presentation with video clips and three months later in early 2002 I released the three-hour film which right under three hours 45 minutes of 9-11 The Road to Tyranny is the definitive documentary on Oklahoma City alone.
01:53:56.000Surveillance tape of the Iraqi Republican Guard hired by the CIA, brought in by George Bush Sr.
01:54:03.000In case locals caught them, they were going to claim Arabs did it.
01:54:07.000And I've interviewed the police, the state police.
01:54:20.000You also had white supremacists involved.
01:54:22.000All these groups, so they could blame different groups for it later.
01:54:26.000But it was entirely a government bombing with a diversionary provocateur truck bomb outside with explosives inside blowing the building out.
01:54:33.000General Benton K. Parton's in the film.
01:54:35.000All the clips, all the documentation, the newscast where they're reporting unexploded bombs and they're removing the bombs.
01:54:55.000We, of course, go into the attack in 1993 where the FBI cooked the bomb, trained the drivers, provocateur-ed the whole incident with the attack there.
01:55:04.000And then of course we go into 9-11 where they can't count on provocateurs anymore or patsies.
01:55:09.000They just totally staged the event themselves and we walk through that and then show you why they wanted to do it, the police state and the wars they wanted to start.
01:55:17.000And we said in the film in 2002 they're going to invade Iraq and they're going to invade other countries, Iran, Syria, because we went off the PNAC, documents themselves.
01:55:27.000The film just gets better with time, more and more accurate with time as things flesh out.
01:55:32.000You need to get 9-11 The Road to Tyranny if you don't have it on DVD or VHS.
01:55:36.000It's over three hours with the extras, but the film is close to three hours and it's got about, what, 30 minutes of extras at the end that I did.
01:55:46.000Because it's more of a second edition later in 2002.
01:55:48.000There's only been three editions of it, but that's the final edition of Road to Tyranny.
01:55:53.000All three of my Police State films are now in a box set for $34.95.
01:55:58.000Police State 2000, which shows the Marines trying to put you in camps, admitting they're trying to take your guns and put you in camps, and the FEMA camps, and the whole Police State grid, then Police State 2, the takeover, then Police State 3, total enslavement.
01:56:12.000It's what one of the films is three hours long the others are over two so we're talking about Almost 10 hours of footage on those three DVDs in one box set available at InfoWars.com.
01:56:24.000We've got 9-11 Inside Job, InfoWars.com, black baseball caps now available.
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01:56:32.000We've got little FM transmitters you can plug into your computer and play the radio show for a couple houses around you or you can boost it with an antenna and go several hundred feet further.
01:56:42.000Those are now available at InfoWars.com.
01:56:46.000And your purchase of these items not only gets you more informed and to have these key tools on your shelf in your library, it supports what we're doing here in my growing staff and the different operations we've launched against the globalists in our war against their tyranny and dehumanization.
01:56:59.000The toll-free number to call and order the films as well is 1-888-253-3139.
01:58:30.000Guys, get me the list of the five affiliates we got last week.
01:58:34.000Because I keep saying I'm going to plug them, and I never get a proper list.
01:58:37.000I hear the names, I thank the program directors, and then I just forget about it.
01:58:41.000I want to get that and thank them before this hour ends, and I want to thank them on the Sunday show that's gotten a lot of new affiliates as well.
01:58:48.000We're just so blessed, so thankful to God.
01:58:50.000Big guest coming up, eyewitness to government operatives and the 7-7 bombings in 2005.
01:59:57.000Is there anybody who's tracking, though, the growth of the epidemic?
02:00:01.000The Helios Society has tried to, they've been robbed once and there's been fire bombings as well of the doctor who worked in the prisons in Little Rock.
02:00:15.000And so there's been some strange deaths as well.
02:00:49.000I'm just curious if he would agree with you about the solution that they're proposing, or if he would be saying it's not 3%, it's 10%, that kind of stuff.
02:00:59.000Well, listen, that's not me just saying 3%.
02:01:01.000I mean, there's a bunch of different studies, and even the UN study, you know, says, well, humans are 6% of it, but still is the tipping point.
02:01:22.000My next question has to do with Ron Paul and Mike Rivera has been talking about the Jefferson Manual and that it takes one governor to start the impeachment procedures.
02:01:32.000And that is starting up in New Mexico and several other states.
02:01:35.000Okay, so Ron Paul isn't in a position to start that as well?
02:01:40.000They already used it against him in his last campaign ineffectively when he came on my show and said Bush should be impeached.
02:01:47.000That was already used against Paul, so I don't know if he will call for something like that, because then it would be misinterpreted by conservatives.
02:01:54.000But certainly, he says anyone who voted for the war should be removed and impeached.
02:02:54.000Shocking declassified government documents prove that western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.
02:03:03.000Terror Storm proves that not only was 9-11 an inside job, but the attacks of 7-7 in London were carried out by British intelligence.
02:03:10.000Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
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02:03:26.000It's an anthology of government crimes.
02:03:28.000Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.
02:03:32.000Get your copy today on Infowars.com or PrisonPlanet.com or by calling toll-free 1-888-253-3139 or watch it right now online at PrisonPlanet.tv.
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02:05:58.000He's Alex Jones on the GCN Radio Network.
02:06:02.000And now, live from Austin, Texas, Alex Jones.
02:06:06.000Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. ladies and gentlemen.
02:06:26.000Now 8 minutes, 42 seconds into this second hour.
02:06:30.000And for the balance of the hour, I'm extremely honored to be joined by Steve Watson of Infowars.net and PrisonPlanet.com from London, England, and Daniel Obuchacki, also joining us from England.
02:06:46.000On the morning of 7-7-2005, three bombs blew up, destroying three different train passenger carriages, killing quite a few people, tragically.
02:06:59.000Over an hour later, a bus that had been specifically singled out and redirected, and these reports had already come out by other witnesses, exploded.
02:07:11.000Causing quite a few deaths and injuries.
02:07:14.000And then it came out that the former head of Scotland Yard's Public Relations, Peter Powers, had been hired to run a drill for the exact same trains, exact same times, being bombed, the exact same day.
02:07:29.000And we've had the actuary mathematics done on that.
02:08:28.000We had surmised from all the evidence something hadn't detonated on the bus.
02:08:33.000People reported there was not an Asian man down there.
02:08:37.000People reported that suddenly there was just an explosion.
02:08:40.000Folks had reported that the bus had been singled out and diverted.
02:08:43.000I talked to bus drivers who'd heard about it.
02:08:45.000I talked to technicians who worked in that bus terminal about strange things and strange technicians working on that bus.
02:08:52.000And so we, from the evidence we had, something hadn't gone off simultaneously in the bus, so they redirected it.
02:08:57.000While they were redirecting it to make sure it went off from all the evidence we have, MI6, MI5, or some private agency that was carrying this out, clearly in collusion with the government, needed time to cover up what was happening with the bus because something had gone wrong.
02:09:12.000So for an hour and several minutes, they were announcing a power surge had caused some type of explosions.
02:09:20.000Now, you've got three blown up trains, dead people everywhere.
02:09:26.000They're coming out, bleeding, dying, they're telling everyone bombs went off, and the police are saying, no, no, no, it's a power surge.
02:09:33.000Meanwhile, black sedans, blue sedans, motorcycles are directing this particular bus, the Hackney bus, to Tavistock Park, Tavistock Square.
02:09:45.000On board that bus is Daniel Obuchieke, and Daniel is there and he's now going to tell you what he witnessed.
02:09:58.000Now, other eyewitnesses interviewed by police, and again, most police aren't involved in this.
02:10:03.000That's why we have Scotland Yard going.
02:10:04.000We don't think these guys knew they had bombs.
02:10:07.000We don't think that they were suicide bombers.
02:10:09.000We think someone gave them these packages.
02:10:11.000But then you've got the problem of one of the bombers' passports, ID cards being found at two different bombings, and somebody messed up in the planting.
02:10:20.000You've got Benjamin Netanyahu being admitted to Associated Press at least 30 minutes before getting a call and being told, don't get on the trains, stay in your hotel room.
02:10:58.000Tell us a little bit about yourself, and then give us a nutshell, give us a thumbnail sketch of what happened on that bus that morning, what you witnessed, and then any more details that you haven't already given us for the InfoWars.net story.
02:11:12.000And I first want to say, thank you for your courage, sir.
02:11:15.000Tell us first about yourself and how you got the courage to go public.
02:11:22.000I was born, bred, work in London and that day I was on my way to work in Old Street and there was some kind of disruption going on.
02:11:33.000We were told it was a power surge and we were evacuated and that's how I became to be on the bus.
02:11:41.000And then after that the bus left Houston full of passengers who were Also evacuated and the bus seemed to be going nowhere so I looked out because I was standing on the lower deck because I wasn't sure whether I was on the correct bus and then I peered ahead and I saw these two cars which were a Mercedes and a BMW blue and black which seemed to be in front of the bus holding it up
02:12:11.000And it was diverted about four or five minutes later down towards Tavistock Square.
02:12:20.000And I think the results are quite evident for everyone else to see what took place in Tavistock Square.
02:12:28.000Please continue with once you got to the square what you saw.
02:12:32.000Oh well, after the explosion you can understand I was on the floor so It took about five seconds till the noise had actually quietened down and then I just got up and then I ran and escaped and ran straight down the street.
02:12:53.000After a few cases down the street I saw a man holding a camera.
02:13:01.000It was walking towards me, filming the bus itself.
02:13:06.000I was confused by this and I stopped and skidded to a halt and looked Left, right, and what was going on.
02:13:14.000Then I looked behind me and I saw the bus, the upper deck of which had been completely destroyed by the bomb explosion.
02:13:24.000And then I just, I think at that point my mind must have just changed into some kind of, I was really not frightened, but I was aware that something, a myth was going on and I was just looking at the people moving into the actual space on the square.
02:13:48.000There were guys who were hanging around.
02:13:50.000There was a row of policemen who were just standing there in yellow fluorescent suits, jackets.
02:14:01.000There was this guy filming and I'm saying, what is going on here?
02:14:04.000It was just not, it didn't feel right.
02:14:07.000So, um, I actually went and helped some woman who had been walking beside the bus.
02:14:12.000She was covered in blood and then I helped her to get some kind of help at the hotel which was further down the square and I passed this gentleman who seemed to have acquired some kind of injuries, but I can understand for the life of me how this was possible because he was 40, 50 meters away from the bus itself.
02:14:35.000So he was making a lot of noise and trying to get people's attention, but I just saw his actual injuries as fake.
02:14:44.000In fact, you write in your description that within 60 seconds he had a bandage on his head and there weren't even paramedics around him.
02:15:00.000Well, he had a bandage around his head and his trouser leg had been He was lit neatly along the seam and he was rolling on the pavement.
02:15:11.000This was 50 metres away from the bus itself.
02:15:14.000The bus bomb itself blew backwards so one lady who was at the back where I was standing, I was standing in the centre of the bus or by the window, she actually died and someone walking behind the bus also died.
02:15:29.000So the bus blew backwards, the bomb blew backwards.
02:15:33.000So this guy is just a complete Fake injury and he was just some guy who was I don't know what his role was specifically there were a lot of people observing I noted some people were running forward the medical staff and the medical professionals were you could tell who they were because they were trying to see what they could do for people half of them some people were just they weren't going to make it some people they were trying to do something for them but then there were these other people who were just
02:16:04.000How many seconds, I mean, how long did it take you to get out of the bus, and then how long did it take you, could you say 60 seconds, to then notice that this guy is way up the street with a bandage on his head rolling around?
02:16:15.000I left the bus within 12 seconds, I got down that street in another 10 seconds, so within 25 seconds I had witnessed the cameraman and about 15 seconds after that I actually noted this chap so it was within 45 seconds he was actually with some kind of headband and lying on the street.
02:16:40.000I don't know how he got there because if it was a bus blast he must have been flung about 40 to 50 feet and that is not really feasible with the injuries which he was displaying.
02:16:54.000And it was the wrong direction from the way the blast went.
02:17:07.000Guys in blue bottoms and who had rucksacks, they were kind of foot soldier types.
02:17:14.000There were about two or three people who were just standing in the doorway, just watching everything.
02:17:19.000And there was another guy who was coordinating everything, coordinating, he was in plainclothes and coordinating police, when they finally came forward to actually do something.
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02:22:16.000Daniel Obuchak, he is our guest, born and bred Londoner.
02:22:23.000Talking during the break, it was just unbelievably powerful.
02:22:27.000I remember making Terrorstorm and saying to Rob, my editor here in the office, I go, that photo looks fake.
02:22:35.000Bandages all over his face, thinly placed, no blood except on his chest, and it looked like it was put on out of a ketchup dispenser, little squirters that you use just kind of dribble down the front.
02:22:50.000And so many times my instincts are right.
02:22:53.000Well, it turns out that's the individual that, within 60 seconds, was flopping around and prancing around in front of cameras and all the waiting police.
02:23:01.000And notice that they didn't... all over every major newspaper in the world, all over every major television network in the world, every news program in the world, no one interviewed him, no one said, where is he now?
02:23:20.000everywhere and please relay and repeat the words you told me during the break Daniel please in your own words I'll lay this out yeah this guy he he was the one that got my kind of curiosity going because I walked past there with this escorting this woman who was hurt and then I saw him he had this bandage around his head
02:23:45.000his leg seemed to his child's leg was torn and this was within 45 less than 60 seconds after the explosion A time before any medical staff had come forward and the thing about him was he just seemed so fake so I thought this man must have had prior knowledge, prior intelligence and he was positioned here.
02:24:36.000I actually spent about two days searching, and then I got two images of him, and that's what you see on WorldWideWebTheForceBomb.com, which is my site, where the truth and the facts of what happened in Tavistock Square that day are.
02:24:54.000Now, again, your story meshes with all the other witnesses, all the other evidence we have, but I want to be clear before I bring Steve Watson up in the next segment, who wrote this with you, and I really am thankful for his great journalistic skills and your courage.
02:25:06.000Going back, specifics, slow down, take your time.
02:25:12.000When you see the blue and black Mercedes and the motorcycle cop and the discussion with the bus driver and it's redirected, let's go back to when they first directed you in the bus to Tavistock Square.
02:25:25.000Okay, yeah, um, well, what do you want to know?
02:25:28.000The bus was... Just slow down and describe everything to me.
02:25:31.000Just slow down and tell me how they pulled up, what they did, what they, you know, what their body motions were like, just everything, what they looked like.
02:25:39.000Okay, it left Houston Bus Station and proceeded down Houston Road.
02:25:44.000It was supposed to go straight from Houston to Kings Cross, but these two cars were blocking its path.
02:25:52.000And then after a short time, a police motorcyclist whizzed up on his bike and had a word with one of the drivers.
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02:31:04.000I I know that it's not big and spectacular like 9-11, but a lot of people died and it was used when the British nation was refusing to go along with the war in Iraq when Tony Blair had barely hung on to his position when he had lost almost the entire majority that the Labour Party had in Parliament.
02:31:26.000And it came right when they were having their big G8 Summit in Glen Eagles.
02:31:31.000And it was used as a grandstanding platform to say, see, the terrorists are hitting us.
02:31:37.000And every indices, every piece of evidence, even Scotland Yard and other police forces who had real detectives out were going, these guys weren't suicide bombers.
02:31:58.000You add all these, there's hundreds of points.
02:32:00.000We put them in the film Terror Storm, that I hope you'll get from Infowars.com.
02:32:03.000That's why it's so important we spend about 30 minutes of the two-hour film, or a little bit more than 30 minutes, in London, documenting this.
02:32:12.000We were there two weeks after the attacks.
02:32:15.000And we show newsstands where there's literally like 15, 20 newspapers and magazines, and it's all Pictures of the bombing, and half of them are this guy with the thin, one layer of bandage.
02:32:27.000Understand, folks, I've worked for a large animal vet.
02:32:53.000And if you even put that on a scuff on your knee that really doesn't bleed but kind of just seeps, you know, when you're playing touch football and you fall down on your knee and it just kind of seeps.
02:33:02.000I mean, even if it was just seeping, just a microscopic graze, it would stick to his face.
02:33:10.000No, it appears to be a cap, woven heavily on the top, and then just thin, thin one straps around his face, like it was some type of already woven helmet he just put on his head.
02:33:21.00045 to 60 seconds after the blast, he's flopping around, way towards the front, 50 yards north of it.
02:33:29.000There's other people videotaping, spook types walking around, and then no interviews with him, we never learn his name, he's just, you remember the guy with the bandage.
02:33:40.000And those eyes have it all, ferret-like, scanning, calculating, and I just remember going, man, that is, something's going on, that doesn't look right.
02:33:50.000And then he has like a potato, a ketchup bottle, you know, that you spray onto your potatoes, you spray onto your french fries, it, like a dribble on his shirt.
02:34:03.000And you take movies like The Quiet American by Graham Greene, which is based on real events, they just changed the names.
02:34:09.000That's when the Times of London reporter, who's based there in southern Vietnam, he's been recruited by the CIA guy, he doesn't know he's CIA, and the CIA guy is actually running terror attacks to blame it on the North to escalate the war.
02:34:24.000This is before the war really kicks off in the late 19th century.
02:34:28.00050s and it's based on true stories that really happened and then all of a sudden he doesn't know he didn't know the guy's CIA and some of these bombings blow up in the square and kill all these women and children and then he's running around the CIA guy giving orders in Vietnamese and the Times of London writer just goes and just leans back and realizes well literally the man you're listening to right now saw something just like you see in that movie
02:34:58.000just like what you see in that fictionalized account of real events in Vietnam.
02:35:27.000Well, it took the Police Investigating Anti-Terrorist Branch of Scotland Yard seven months to question me.
02:35:37.000I actually called them, contacted the Emergency Information Hotline the following day, but they didn't get back to me until the end of January 2006.
02:35:48.000And I just felt it was as though they were trying to whitewash me, to make out that I was not even there, to actually completely dis... dis... make it look as though I was not...
02:36:07.000That's what the Fourth Bomb, the book, is about, and what I went through.
02:36:11.000I had some surveillance, some... I don't know whether they were MI5, Anti-Terrorist Branch, or what government organization, but I had a lot of probing.
02:36:23.000I even had... I even gave an interview with a journalist called Duffy, he was working for the Sunday Mirror, and he showed me a picture, this was a week after the actual 7-7, he showed me a picture of Hasib Hussain, and then he asked me, "Have you seen this person?" And I said no, and about a day or two
02:36:48.000after that, then, Hasib Hussain was named as the bus bomber in the British press.
02:36:56.000And let's be clear, none of the people on the bus said they saw any Asian men?
02:37:46.000There's a place called the Honorable Artillery, um, Barracks, and that's ten minutes from where I worked, and that is where they kept all the dead bodies from the 7-7 attacks.
02:37:58.000So the police outside there, every time I used to walk past, they used to, uh, Have something to say, call my name or something like that.
02:38:07.000And I think it was just a campaign trying to put psychological stress and pressure upon me because obviously if it came down to me testifying, they want me to be deemed unfit to testify or something like that.
02:38:22.000And I think they just didn't want a public inquiry anyway.
02:38:26.000So they got their own way and there was no public inquiry.
02:38:39.000I had arranged to meet someone from the office, and then I got there, this guy came after me, so I actually ran into this building, and then he ran in there and followed me, and I actually hid in some offices.
02:39:28.000If they want to do what they want to do, go ahead and do it.
02:39:31.000The truth is going to be out there, regardless.
02:39:33.000So, I just tried to escape from him by ducking into some building, and then he followed me.
02:39:40.000You know, I just thought here, see, and I'm stupid, my instinct was I would have gotten a fight, but you're smart because by then you knew it was police, and actually they would have then got you claiming you just assaulted an officer, and you know, the 50 cameras on you in the surveilled city of four and a half million would have all malfunctioned, and they would have claimed you assaulted an officer.
02:40:36.000Any other key points you want to bring up here with Daniel?
02:40:41.000I was just going to say, why do you think it is that the police didn't ask you to come in and give a statement straight away, but it was later revealed that They relied on the testimony of people who were at the scene, but you know, they were either injured or even unconscious in some cases.
02:41:03.000And also, could you talk about some of the phone calls that you got from, you said you got some phone calls from different police departments across the country.
02:41:12.000And you posted those up on your website as well.
02:41:18.000Yeah, they were from the West Yorkshire Police Constabulary.
02:41:22.000They were the police constabulary investigating the four alleged bombers and one of them He decided to call me one evening and suggest something which I couldn't make out.
02:41:37.000I said, hey, you've got the wrong number, guy.
02:41:39.000But he continued and called the following day and I recorded it and posted it on the web.
02:41:44.000It just says that I had a vehicle which was involved with transporting something or other to do with the investigation into the 7-7 bombings.
02:41:55.000You know, I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what, I forgot to do this.
02:41:59.000John, will you go to his website and uh...
02:42:03.000And again, Daniel, give my producer at the network your website again.
02:42:48.000It wasn't as much as I had hoped it would.
02:42:53.000They just took my details, but what they did was, um, he rushed through it.
02:42:58.000It took four hours, but he rushed through it.
02:43:00.000He was, it wasn't really as if they were depending on my information and eyewitness accounts.
02:43:07.000as a vital part of their inquiry because, of course, they had already completed their inquiries or whatever they wanted to say were their inquiries months ago.
02:43:19.000So what they did was they waited until they had worked out their story and then kept me running and then brought me in and just said, hey, okay, what's your story, just so that they could do their paperwork.
02:43:31.000But that's all it was, just paperwork.
02:43:37.000The diagram, are you talking about which one Because there's been quite a few.
02:43:42.000Oh yeah, the bus diagram, which they, um, asked me to, um, sign.
02:43:48.000The bus diagram which they asked me to mark out, um, where the people were sitting on the bus and where the people were standing and what happened on the bus, it, the diagram was the complete Wrong layout for the bus.
02:44:03.000And I said to the anti-terrorist branch detective who was taking my statement, this is completely incorrect.
02:44:11.000So by me signing this, that's just going to render everything which I've told you inadmissible.
02:44:29.000Steve, there's a lot of other facets to this.
02:44:32.000Any other questions you've got for the guest we have?
02:44:35.000Yeah, I would also point out that, you know, Daniel had a shirt, which I believe he still has, with, you know, victim's blood on it, which should have been taken for forensic testing, but they weren't even interested in that either.
02:44:52.000It's just they've worked out previously You know, a line to take on this, and they weren't deviating from the line, even though you've got, you know, a first-hand witness here saying this is incorrect.
02:45:02.000You've got a layout of the bust which is incorrect.
02:45:05.000I mean, if this doesn't tell us that we need an independent inquiry on this, then what else does?
02:45:15.000Knowing what you know now, knowing all the evidence concerning government involvement or black ops involvement, intelligence involvement in past attacks and in the 7-7 attack, seeing your bus erected by these shadowy government characters, seeing people on the ground seconds after it happened, the fake bandages, what do you think was really going on there?
02:45:38.000Who do you think was behind the bombings?
02:47:30.000Yeah, I mean, if we do delve into a bit of the evidence, we've got, you know, numerous advance warnings from other intelligence agencies, from French, Spanish, the Saudis, who said, you know, gave an exact time frame for this, and Scotland Yard themselves, who, you know, told the Israeli Embassy on the very morning, minutes before that it was going to
02:47:52.000It was going to go off, and Benjamin Netanyahu, who was in a hotel on Tavistock Square, which is a point that is often missed, he was told to stay in the hotel, which, you know, that kind of proves that they had precise location information as well, so we need to keep working towards outing the truth on this.
02:48:13.000Well, we need to put this guy's face up everywhere, and we've got, look, we've got technologies to scan his face, do a composite by reducing to the lines beneath the bandages.
02:48:24.000I actually know some police sketch artists who can, we can use computer mapping to get this guy's face.
02:48:36.000This is the type of stuff we'll cut it six feet under, but what the hell?
02:48:49.000After a year in production and traveling to distant lands, my new film, Terror Storm, is complete.
02:48:54.000Shocking declassified government documents prove that western governments are orchestrating terror attacks against their own populations as a pretext to enslave them.
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02:49:10.000Terror Storm chronicles the lies that took us to war in Iran, a White House program to disseminate fake news, NSA spying, secret police torture, the latest 9-11 information, and much, much more.
02:49:22.000Terror Storm is the definitive guide to the history of government-sponsored terrorism.
02:49:26.000It's an anthology of government crimes.
02:49:28.000Terror Storm is a film that everyone who wants to be truly informed must see.
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02:52:30.000Somebody said he came from New Orleans, where he got in a fight over a Cajun queen and a crashing blow from a huge right hand sent a Louisiana fella to the promised land, Big John.
02:52:54.000I tell ya, the courage of our guest, Daniel Obachiki, the courage of Steve Watson, they're over there in London in one of the biggest police states in the world.
02:53:05.000I mean, you try to videotape on the street, they come over and tell you to shut it off.
02:54:04.000And even when I was trying to work and get jobs, they were getting in there and holding me, preventing me from gaining employment.
02:54:13.000So I had to fight back somehow And the only way to get back is by making sure what it is they didn't want to be out there was out there.
02:54:23.000So that's what the book, the forthcoming book, theforthbomb.com and the website, It's all about just to, it's actually something which is helping me as well, helping me get through it.
02:54:38.000I saw a little note in your narrative that you exclusively gave us, sections of the book, but you mentioned that the publisher's like, well let's not get into the guy with the bandages, that's not too important.
02:54:48.000What do you mean that's not too important?
02:54:53.000He is referred to in the book but it doesn't actually enhance the story that much.
02:54:59.000There is another guy who was in the square that day, an agent, who I'm going to put something on one of the Internet sites, like Google TV or something like that, which shows you he's actually directing the police and everything.