Fresh & Fit - April 01, 2024


Fresh Debates @MohammedHijab on Christianity vs Islam


Episode Stats

Length

2 hours and 5 minutes

Words per Minute

190.17545

Word Count

23,848

Sentence Count

1,827

Misogynist Sentences

40

Hate Speech Sentences

86


Summary

In this episode of the Fresh Fit Podcast, we sit down with one of the most respected Islamic scholars in the world, Dr. Muhammad Hijab. We discuss his journey to becoming a household name in the Islamic world, how he got started in his career, and what it takes to be a Muslim-American in the modern world. We also discuss the importance of having a mentor and how important it is to have a mentor to guide you in your career and life. We hope you enjoy this episode and stay tuned for our upcoming live event on April 26th in Miami, Florida. Tickets are on sale now! Stay tuned for more information on our upcoming event. Thank you so much for all the support, stay tuned, stay safe, and Stay Fit! - The Fresh Fit Crew Hosted by: & Produced by Featuring: , , and . We are live in Miami on the 26th of April, and we are looking forward to seeing all of you in person. Stay tuned to the website for tickets to our live event down here in Miami! and the details on our live show on the 27th. - Stay Tuned for the live event coming up on the 25th of March! Stay Blessed, Stay Fit, Stay Safe, Stay Happy, and God Bless! (and Stay Blessed! ) and - Don't Tell a Friend, Cheers, - Cheers! Cheers - Matt, Matt, Matt, TK, Tim, & Cheers - - , TK ( ) - EJ & Matt, AKA: The FreshFit Podcast :) AND . . - TAYO ( ) , ... ! CHECK OUT THE Podcast, , EJUY ( ) & , JUYO ( , & ( ) - , CHEERS ( ) - CHEERED ( ) ( ) . (THAT'S ( ) AND , AND ( ), (CHEERS, ) ( ( , ) , AND ( ) & CHEVERYTHING ( ) // ( AND ) AND ( ) !! ; PODCAST ( ) ... ( & ) ! , BABY


Transcript

00:03:42.000 And we are live.
00:03:42.000 What's up, guys?
00:03:43.000 Welcome to Fresh Up Podcast, man.
00:03:44.000 We got Muhammad Hijab in the house, man.
00:03:45.000 We're gonna be doing this virtually.
00:03:46.000 Let's get into it!
00:03:47.000 Let's go!
00:04:37.000 Hey, we're live.
00:04:38.000 What's up, guys?
00:04:39.000 Welcome to the Fresh Fit Podcast, man.
00:04:40.000 It is Monday.
00:04:41.000 We got a special guest in the house, guys.
00:04:42.000 We got a three-peat for you guys, by the way.
00:04:43.000 We got Hammond Hijab now, and then we got TK Kirkland coming in a little bit later, and then obviously we're going to do an after-hour show for you guys.
00:04:49.000 With him.
00:04:50.000 Yes, it's going to be lit.
00:04:51.000 Quick announcement.
00:04:52.000 Two main things, guys, really.
00:04:53.000 Rumble.com slash Fresh Fit.
00:04:54.000 That's the home base for us.
00:04:55.000 CastleClub.tv.
00:04:56.000 And then the tickets.
00:04:57.000 Guys, we're having a live event here in Miami, April 26th.
00:05:01.000 Don't miss out, special guests, girls, and, of course, us in the studio live for you guys.
00:05:06.000 So go check it out.
00:05:07.000 Tickets are down below, pinned, and in the comments.
00:05:09.000 Totally affordable, too, man.
00:05:10.000 It's going to be down here in Miami.
00:05:11.000 We want to get as many of you guys out there as possible, meet as many of you guys in person.
00:05:14.000 It's going to be lit.
00:05:15.000 We're excited.
00:05:15.000 But without further ado, man, we've got a special guest in the house.
00:05:18.000 You guys have been requesting us to do a collab with him for a very long time, and I'm glad that he made time for us today.
00:05:22.000 Welcome to the podcast, Mohamed Hijab, man.
00:05:25.000 Thank you very much for having me, my friend.
00:05:26.000 How are you doing?
00:05:27.000 You alright?
00:05:27.000 How are you, man?
00:05:28.000 I'm good.
00:05:28.000 I'm good.
00:05:29.000 Welcome, welcome.
00:05:30.000 Yeah, I'm good.
00:05:31.000 I'm glad we're able to make this happen, man.
00:05:34.000 So for the audience that might not, I mean, obviously I'm very well aware of who you are.
00:05:38.000 You know, shout out to Sneeko for linking us, by the way, and creating that contact.
00:05:43.000 But can you, you have a huge YouTube channel yourself, huge following, probably one of the most famous Islamic scholars in the world.
00:05:50.000 But for those that don't know, can you please introduce yourself to the people?
00:05:54.000 Well, I mean, look, as you mentioned, content creator, I would probably call myself in the most neutral way.
00:06:00.000 I've been online for about eight years now, producing all kinds of content relating to, I would say, for example, Islam, religion, politics, society, philosophy.
00:06:12.000 Obviously, I've had lots of debates, which are high-profile debates.
00:06:16.000 Recently, I had one with Piers Morgan.
00:06:20.000 Yeah.
00:06:33.000 There was two.
00:06:34.000 The initial one I had with Piers Morgan accumulated, I think, probably about eight and a half million views.
00:06:40.000 Yeah.
00:06:40.000 And then the one with Shmoli about, I don't know, like five million or something.
00:06:44.000 But it was a heated debate.
00:06:47.000 And Piers Morgan referred to it as the most combative debate in TV history.
00:06:53.000 A lot of people, when they watch that debate, consider it to be a very controversial debate.
00:06:56.000 So, yeah, I mean, there's been a lot of high-profile moments and interesting times, you know what I mean?
00:07:01.000 Yeah, so can you take us through your evolution of how you got here?
00:07:05.000 Obviously, you're very respected in the space and in the religious world.
00:07:08.000 How did you get to this point?
00:07:10.000 What was your background like?
00:07:11.000 Well, I've been going to university for a very long time.
00:07:18.000 And at the same time, I've been doing Islamic studies.
00:07:22.000 So because I've been doing multiple degrees over the span of maybe about 11, 12 years now, I found an outlet in being able to disseminate information, edify people, which was YouTube, actually.
00:07:36.000 So I found that YouTube and social media, the internet in general, allows you to get through to people in a way, in a manner, that classrooms and lecture halls don't allow you to do so.
00:07:48.000 So it's...
00:07:50.000 Yeah, for me it's input and output.
00:07:52.000 I've been learning and then I've been teaching.
00:07:54.000 So I've been trying to edify the people and also learning from the people as well.
00:07:59.000 It's been a very transformative experience for me in the last nine years.
00:08:03.000 And I know you're pursuing your PhD when I was looking into some of your stuff.
00:08:08.000 How far away are you from getting your doctorate?
00:08:12.000 I'm nearly done.
00:08:13.000 I'm just writing it up and stuff like that.
00:08:15.000 Hopefully, I should be finished with that.
00:08:18.000 As I mentioned, I've kind of had enough of university number from because I've been doing multiple degrees.
00:08:23.000 I think I've done four now.
00:08:25.000 I've done four.
00:08:26.000 By one year's time, I would have done six.
00:08:28.000 So that's a lot of degrees, and I think I'm going to retire at that point.
00:08:32.000 Well, let me ask you this.
00:08:33.000 Oh, sorry, please.
00:08:35.000 I was going to ask you.
00:08:37.000 I just want you to finish your thought before I ask.
00:08:40.000 Yeah, I was just talking to my friends about this the other day.
00:08:43.000 When you do that many examinations, from when you were a kid, and you do that many essays, and you do that many dissertations or whatever it may be, you get tired.
00:08:56.000 And so it's been interdisciplinary for me.
00:08:58.000 I've done a history masters, for example.
00:09:00.000 I've done something in philosophy of religion.
00:09:03.000 I've done something in politics.
00:09:05.000 You know, I mean, I've done obviously Islamic, I've done two Islamic studies degrees.
00:09:09.000 So there's lots of things I've been doing along the way.
00:09:11.000 I found it interesting.
00:09:12.000 I find it enjoyable to do that kind of thing.
00:09:15.000 Do you know what I mean?
00:09:15.000 But now, at the tail end of my studies, I've actually had enough of it a little bit.
00:09:20.000 And so, yeah, I feel like the next step for me is probably focusing a little bit more about the teaching side than the learning side.
00:09:28.000 Gotcha.
00:09:29.000 And I totally feel you there, man, because just for me, even going to college and getting a bachelor's degree was a pain.
00:09:33.000 So I can only imagine pursuing multiple degrees, pursuing a doctorate, writing all those essays, going to lectures, writing dissertations like you were mentioning earlier.
00:09:42.000 It gets very monotonous very quickly, especially when you've been in the education system for a while.
00:09:46.000 But let me ask you this.
00:09:47.000 So I've always, at least in America, I don't know what it's like in the UK. I'm assuming it's fairly similar.
00:09:53.000 The education system tends to be extremely liberal.
00:09:57.000 The people in the education system tend to swing left, be more woke, so to speak.
00:10:03.000 As a Muslim, which naturally the religion is fairly conservative, how are you able to maneuver in the education system without dealing with headaches or problems?
00:10:16.000 It depends on what you think.
00:10:17.000 I've been to four universities.
00:10:18.000 So like each university, actually each and every single one of them that I went to in the United Kingdom have been left-leaning universities.
00:10:25.000 Yeah.
00:10:25.000 Right.
00:10:26.000 So I'll be honest, there's pros and cons from like a Muslim traditional perspective of going to a left-leaning place.
00:10:32.000 The pro of it is that they are quite, I mean, obviously you'll know this, they're quite inclusive in that sense.
00:10:38.000 So they are afraid to say or do things that are going to offend you as a Muslim.
00:10:43.000 They're aware of your cultural sensitivities and so on.
00:10:46.000 Obviously the cons are well known.
00:10:47.000 I mean, I think we're all aligned on some of the cons in woke culture and leftism in general.
00:10:53.000 And obviously being around that, I don't like to see and be around some of that stuff, you know what I mean, as an individual.
00:10:59.000 It's not my taste.
00:11:00.000 It's not something I enjoy to see.
00:11:04.000 However, I mean, I think the pros actually are more than the cons, from my angle at least, because at least I can get my job done.
00:11:10.000 Yeah, I've had issues, but, you know, at the end of the day, when you're doing your dissertations, when you're doing your examinations in the United Kingdom, they have a degree of anonymity.
00:11:19.000 So like, for example, when I was doing A-levels in this country, which is like the equivalent of SATs in America, I've done well in my A-levels because no one knew who I was.
00:11:28.000 Do you know what I mean?
00:11:28.000 I scored high grades because no one knew who I was.
00:11:31.000 When I got to university, once again, there were anonymity things.
00:11:35.000 But here's the thing.
00:11:36.000 I have actually suffered in the United Kingdom as a result of my views.
00:11:41.000 For example, I used to work as a school teacher at one point.
00:11:44.000 And this was famous news.
00:11:45.000 In fact, one person that you interviewed, which is Tommy Robinson, was part of the reason for this.
00:11:50.000 While I was working as a school teacher, and there was this kind of like, they were doing it, they called it the Freedom March.
00:11:56.000 Then me and Ali Dawah came down, this was in 2018, it's a public record, you can probably check this if you wanted to.
00:12:00.000 We went and wanted to challenge Tommy Robinson.
00:12:02.000 In fact, Tommy Robinson had actually invited Ali to be one of the speakers of the event.
00:12:08.000 So last minute, we went there.
00:12:10.000 Last minute, they cancelled him being the speaker.
00:12:13.000 And then we got beaten up, basically, because there was like hundreds of them.
00:12:18.000 They rushed us, which means they came in and tried to beat us up.
00:12:22.000 Wait, physically?
00:12:24.000 Try to beat you up?
00:12:25.000 Physically?
00:12:26.000 Yeah, beat us physically.
00:12:28.000 Yeah, it wouldn't be any other way.
00:12:29.000 I mean, there was maybe 30 assailants or something like that.
00:12:32.000 Do you know what I mean?
00:12:33.000 So what happened is...
00:12:36.000 After that, my school contract got cancelled.
00:12:40.000 So I couldn't work as a school teacher anymore.
00:12:42.000 So I realized that for me as a Muslim that has these views in the West and the United Kingdom, it's either censorship or it's, you know, it's not just censorship from a social media platform, which is something we're afraid of.
00:12:58.000 We're speaking to Sneaker, obviously he's been censored and blocked off YouTube and stuff like that.
00:13:04.000 But it's also the fact that you get fired from jobs.
00:13:07.000 You get managed out of things.
00:13:10.000 You can't be free.
00:13:12.000 You cannot be free as a conservative, if you like, traditionalist Muslim.
00:13:16.000 So these are some of the things that I suffered growing up and stuff like that in this country.
00:13:20.000 And so I had to make my living as a content creator.
00:13:24.000 It wasn't actually my ambition.
00:13:26.000 I wanted to do some kind of work and at the same time do content creation.
00:13:32.000 But It just so happened that everything forced me towards this.
00:13:37.000 Because it's not just that I became unemployed, but it became unemployable when I had certain views.
00:13:43.000 Like for example, the views of LGBT. For Muslims, just like Orthodox Jews and many Christians, you know, we don't believe that homosexuality is an acceptable morality, for example.
00:13:55.000 So having that view is unacceptable to the majority of society in the West.
00:14:00.000 Especially in London.
00:14:01.000 So it's forced me into this corner, I would say.
00:14:06.000 Wow.
00:14:08.000 Because we've been told, especially in the UK, there's no free speech at all.
00:14:13.000 And from the laws as well, whatever you say can be used against you, but work-wise or, for example, even regular-wise.
00:14:19.000 Yeah, you guys are fairly restricted in your ability to speak and convey your ideas.
00:14:24.000 Have you been to the United States before?
00:14:27.000 I'm assuming you probably have.
00:14:28.000 I've been to the United States four times, been to Canada about five times.
00:14:32.000 I would say, look, it's on a legislative level, it's true that in the United States of America, there are broader legal allowances in terms of what you can say, because you don't have the equivalent of hate speech legislation.
00:14:47.000 And things like defamation of character, libel, and stuff like that is much easier to prove in the United Kingdom than it is in the United States.
00:14:54.000 So I think you're right to say that in the United States, there's definitely more freedom of speech embedded both in constitutional law and institutions generally.
00:15:03.000 But you know, when we speak about freedom of speech, it's not just...
00:15:06.000 I think it's a mistake to think that freedom of speech is something that it's only a governmental reality.
00:15:12.000 Like in other words, so long as there's laws that allow or prohibit freedom of speech, that freedom of speech is present or absent in a particular society.
00:15:21.000 Because the assumption there is that government is in control of all things that happen.
00:15:26.000 In a society.
00:15:26.000 Well, it's not the case.
00:15:27.000 You've got government that controls part of society, but also you've got, for example, institutions.
00:15:33.000 Elon Musk, as an example, is a very, you know, influential person, and therefore his platform could be said to be, in many ways, more powerful than some governmental institutions.
00:15:43.000 So if he decides to take people off and on his platform, that's an implementation of freedom of speech, or lack thereof, on a platform.
00:15:50.000 Likewise, YouTube.
00:15:52.000 And a lot of these companies are US-based companies.
00:15:55.000 So the point is that freedom of speech shouldn't just be thought of as, okay, if it's in law, then it's present in society.
00:16:03.000 If it's not in law, then it's not present in society.
00:16:05.000 Because you have all these institutions and companies.
00:16:07.000 And one could even make a democratic argument against people like Elon Musk.
00:16:12.000 Because he's almost yielding the power of a representative, for example, parliamentarian or member of Congress, without being voted in.
00:16:25.000 Okay.
00:16:26.000 So this is an issue here because you have people that have power, the power of politicians that have not been voted in.
00:16:31.000 So this is a threat to democracy in many ways.
00:16:34.000 Good point.
00:16:35.000 But these are complex discussions.
00:16:36.000 But the point is that what I wanted to bring to the table was that the absence or the presence of freedom of speech is not just contingent on constitutional law, statute law, or otherwise.
00:16:46.000 It can also be the institutions and the players, the main players of said institutions.
00:16:53.000 Okay.
00:16:53.000 And so maybe there should be a discussion about whether or not certain main players need to have some kind of a check from the people if it's a democratic mandate that people are looking for.
00:17:05.000 So Elon Musk or let's say whoever it is that owns YouTube or Mark Zuckerberg or whoever it may be, you know, as I say, I reckon that they have more influence than the majority of politicians.
00:17:16.000 That's a fantastic point that I never really thought about.
00:17:19.000 That's pretty profound because if you really think about it, these people control platforms that actually have the reach and the ability to utilize this free speech that we talk about, but what do they do?
00:17:31.000 Thank God for Elon Musk.
00:17:32.000 He brought a bunch of people back.
00:17:34.000 He made X. Obviously, X still has its terms and conditions and everything else like that, but it's way more open than other platforms.
00:17:40.000 But you're right, man.
00:17:42.000 Zuckerberg over at Facebook, Adam Massari over at Instagram, all these guys, they have more power than politicians do because they're able to regulate speech on their platforms, which in turn obviously is the vehicle from which you're going to use to get your message out there.
00:17:56.000 And if they don't like what you've got to say, then unfortunately you get canceled.
00:18:00.000 Yeah.
00:18:00.000 I mean, to be fair, it is their platform, so understandable.
00:18:03.000 But when it comes to free speech, you're right.
00:18:05.000 There really is any free speech because governments don't control everything.
00:18:08.000 They control a small portion, but these companies do control a lot.
00:18:11.000 Yeah.
00:18:12.000 So, yeah.
00:18:12.000 That's a good point.
00:18:13.000 That's what it is, you know.
00:18:14.000 I had a question, if you don't mind your job.
00:18:17.000 What do you think about Christianity and atheism separately?
00:18:22.000 So we'll take one at a time.
00:18:23.000 Obviously, with Christianity, as Muslims, we believe in Christ.
00:18:27.000 We believe that Christ is the Messiah.
00:18:29.000 We believe that he's a prophet.
00:18:31.000 We believe that he was sent by God.
00:18:33.000 We believe that he was given wonders and miracles and signs, as it's mentioned in the book of Acts in the Bible.
00:18:39.000 He was a man amongst men that was sent with wonders and miracles and signs that God did through him.
00:18:46.000 That's a biblical verse.
00:18:47.000 And that biblical verse there in the book of Acts is everything we agree with.
00:18:52.000 That God did those things through him.
00:18:55.000 So we believe that, you know, Christ cured the leper, that he cured the blind with God's permission.
00:19:02.000 But here's the difference between Islam and Christianity.
00:19:04.000 So whereas we would say as Muslims that Christ was, yes, he was the Messiah, he was one of the greatest people who ever graced this earth.
00:19:12.000 We consider anybody who rejects Christ We're good to go.
00:19:30.000 Likewise, you cannot be a Muslim and attack or abuse or besmirch Mary, son of Mary, which is the mother of Christ.
00:19:40.000 Those two figures are mentioned in the Quran.
00:19:42.000 In fact, Allah mentions that Mary is the best woman on the earth.
00:19:49.000 That he has chosen you above all women on the earth, even more so than any of the prophet's wives or any of the prophet's daughters or anybody else.
00:19:58.000 So Mary for us is the most important woman to have ever lived.
00:20:02.000 There's a whole chapter in the Quran, chapter 19, which is the chapter of Mary.
00:20:08.000 Which recounts some of the stories there relating to Mary.
00:20:10.000 So, we don't believe God, Jesus is God or the Son of God.
00:20:15.000 That's the main difference.
00:20:16.000 We do not believe that Jesus can be God.
00:20:20.000 We do not believe that it's conceivable, it's intelligible or that it's possible that anybody with a date of birth is God.
00:20:28.000 Let me say that again.
00:20:29.000 We do not believe that it's possible, that it's conceivable or intelligible that anybody with a date of birth is God, because God is the Eternal.
00:20:39.000 Jesus is not the eternal, at least the physical manifestation of Him.
00:20:43.000 He was born of a certain time.
00:20:45.000 He had a mother.
00:20:47.000 You know, in the Quran it says, That Him and His mother used to eat food, which indicates limitation.
00:20:54.000 Because if you're eating food, how can you be God?
00:20:57.000 So the point is that we believe that Jesus never even claimed to be God.
00:21:03.000 There is no good evidence that Jesus claimed to be God.
00:21:07.000 There's scanty evidence in the Bible, and the Bible itself is an unpreserved text we consider to be.
00:21:12.000 So it's a corrupted text.
00:21:15.000 So our views on Christianity is as follows.
00:21:17.000 We agree that Christ and Mary are great figures, but we think that history has distorted The image of Christ and Mary and this idea of the Trinity was a historical development.
00:21:33.000 That what happened was, in the Roman Empire, when Constantine adopted Christianity, because what happened in the beginning was, Christians were a persecuted minority.
00:21:46.000 Then what happened was, in the year 313, there was the Edict of Milan, and, you know, Constantine, who was the then, you know, Emperor of the Roman Empire, he embraced Christianity.
00:21:58.000 He had a dream and so on, and then he embraced Christianity, and then he spread Christianity throughout the Roman Empire.
00:22:03.000 That's how Christianity spread.
00:22:05.000 When Christianity spread, the Roman Empire already had mythologies that were adopted from ancient Greek mythologies, like Mithraism, for example.
00:22:13.000 You can check out Mithraism online.
00:22:16.000 And most of these mythologies consisted of a godhead of some sorts, father, son, this kind of relationship.
00:22:23.000 And so it's easy to see that in the Roman Empire, how Christianity evolved due to the adoption, amalgamation, and synthesis of these ideas, which were otherwise, you could say, pantheistic, polytheistic ideas,
00:22:41.000 mythological ideas, into the canon of Christianity.
00:22:46.000 And that is even evidenced by some of what you call early church fathers.
00:22:50.000 So you have someone called Justin Marta.
00:22:52.000 And in his works, he's discussing in primary source materials, he's saying that just as you guys believe in Jupiter and the Sun, we also believe in the Father and the Sun.
00:23:03.000 So in other words, he's trying to...
00:23:06.000 Make close the proximity between pagan belief and Christian belief.
00:23:12.000 So it's clear that the idea of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit was something which was adopted by the Romans.
00:23:18.000 That's why the early Christians, for example, the Ebionites, didn't believe in this.
00:23:24.000 And the idea of the Trinity is clearly developed such that the Holy Spirit joined the party as co-equal, co-eternal only in the late 4th century according to J.N.D. Kelly in his book, Early Church Fathers.
00:23:36.000 So you can see that there was a binitarianism and then that transformed into a trinitarianism.
00:23:41.000 Now what we're saying is that this whole idea of God, this is not something God sent.
00:23:46.000 It's not something that you even find in the Old Testament.
00:23:48.000 Abraham didn't believe in the Trinity.
00:23:52.000 That's what the Quran states.
00:23:53.000 That Abraham wasn't a Jew or a Christian.
00:23:59.000 He was submissive to one God.
00:24:01.000 That's what he was.
00:24:01.000 He didn't believe in Muhammad.
00:24:03.000 We don't say that he did.
00:24:04.000 He was the prophet of the time.
00:24:06.000 So Abraham didn't believe in the Trinity.
00:24:08.000 We don't believe there's any evidence.
00:24:10.000 There's scanty to no or zero evidence.
00:24:12.000 So this is the point.
00:24:14.000 Islam separates itself from Christianity in so much it says that We don't believe that Jesus was God.
00:24:20.000 It cannot be possible or fathomable, plausible, intelligible, conceivable that a man who is limited is God who is unlimited.
00:24:30.000 A man with a beginning is God which does not have a beginning and so on.
00:24:35.000 That's the main difference.
00:24:37.000 So, just to respond, I get what you're saying, and I have a family that's a Christian, Muslim as well, so I do understand both sides of the religion on some level.
00:24:46.000 But let me ask you this.
00:24:47.000 So, in that regard, if Jesus isn't God as you say, what about the Bible?
00:24:54.000 Should we follow the Bible as well as the Word of God, or no?
00:24:59.000 You see, that's a great question because here's what we believe.
00:25:02.000 And it's not just we the Muslims believe it.
00:25:04.000 Yes, we the Muslims believe it, but this is now consensus in Christian scholarship.
00:25:09.000 The idea that the Bible itself now has become corrupted, which means that there have been things that have been put into it and things have been taken out of it, which is why you have contradictory versions of the Bible.
00:25:21.000 We have the New International Version, the King James Version.
00:25:24.000 The Revised Standard Version, all of them have contradictory information.
00:25:27.000 They're not all the same because they depend on different manuscripts.
00:25:30.000 And you can refer to the works of Bruce Mesker, who wrote a book on the corruption of the Bible.
00:25:36.000 He was a Christian himself.
00:25:38.000 So it's not actually...
00:25:40.000 Controversial in the 21st century to state that the Bible, both the Old and New Testaments, have been corrupted thoroughly.
00:25:49.000 They have been ravaged with corruption.
00:25:52.000 They have corruption in every chapter, in fact.
00:25:58.000 And so we, as Muslims, the relationship we have with the Bible is we would say there's some truth in it, but some falsehood inside of it.
00:26:06.000 And for us to discern what's the truth, we go to the Qur'an because we believe it's the final revelation.
00:26:12.000 You see, it's the final revelation which distinguishes and sieves out and filters out the truth from the falsehood.
00:26:19.000 And so our relationship with the Bible is that we would say, as any historian would frankly, that some parts of it are voracious and are acceptable, and other parts of it are interpolations, corruptions, and false, frankly.
00:26:33.000 So I can't argue that the Bible wasn't changed because things have been changed over a period of time.
00:26:38.000 I'm not going to lie to you there.
00:26:39.000 But back in the day, let's say Moses himself, did he have the Quran?
00:26:46.000 Pardon?
00:26:46.000 Moses.
00:26:47.000 Yes.
00:26:47.000 The prophets back in the day, they doubt the Quran?
00:26:50.000 So we believe that Moses was sent the Torah, and that's the same thing as what the Jews believe.
00:26:55.000 So the Torah was sent to Moses.
00:26:58.000 The Torah is the Torah.
00:27:00.000 Now, Christians have a book called the Old Testament.
00:27:03.000 Jews have the same book, but they call it the Hebrew Old Testament.
00:27:06.000 The first five books of that book is what Jews refer to as the Torah, beginning from Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and so on.
00:27:17.000 Now, we would say about this is that this is not actually the Torah.
00:27:22.000 These five books are not actually the Torah.
00:27:25.000 But you can see this, number one, in the fact that there's no chain of narration which links Moses to these five books.
00:27:32.000 Number two, that if you see the first manuscripts that we have of the Old Testament in general, they're about a thousand years after Moses, frankly.
00:27:43.000 They're a thousand years after Moses.
00:27:45.000 So there's no connection between, for example, the Dead Sea Scrolls or whatever it may be, and Moses in a direct way.
00:27:56.000 The second thing is that we believe that there was an original book sent to Moses and that that book was corrupted.
00:28:04.000 But the corruption that we have now of the first five books It's not necessarily the Torah that Moses was originally sent, but there may be remnants of it which are.
00:28:13.000 So once again, as a historian, look into it.
00:28:16.000 Now, historians say, for instance, there's something called documentary hypothesis.
00:28:20.000 Documentary hypothesis is the idea that there's so many different authors of the Bible.
00:28:24.000 This is the dominant school of thought now in secular history, that there have been so many different kinds of authors of the Bible.
00:28:31.000 They all bring different things to the Bible, and it is what it is.
00:28:35.000 We would say there are some things in the Bible which are true.
00:28:38.000 I mean, if you open the Bible with all due respect, the first page of the Bible has contradictions inside of it.
00:28:44.000 The first page.
00:28:46.000 For example, it says in the beginning God created the night and the day, and on the first day God created the night and the day.
00:28:55.000 But on the fourth day, according to Genesis 1, on the fourth day God created the sun.
00:29:01.000 But how can you have night and day without the sun?
00:29:05.000 On the third day, God created the vegetation, like the plantation, the shrubbery.
00:29:10.000 But how can you have plants and vegetation without the sun?
00:29:15.000 In Genesis 2, verse 5, which is the second page of the Bible, It said that no plant has sprung up yet.
00:29:22.000 So I thought in Genesis chapter 1, it said that on the third day God created the plants.
00:29:28.000 But then in Genesis chapter 2 verse 5, it says there's no plants.
00:29:32.000 So are there plants or no plants?
00:29:33.000 So there's internal contradictions.
00:29:35.000 There's external contradictions.
00:29:37.000 I mean, that's why most of the people of today in the 21st century have resorted to what you call metaphorizing the biblical text.
00:29:47.000 So they're spiritualizing it.
00:29:49.000 They're saying this is not what it's meant to be.
00:29:50.000 It's just a metaphor.
00:29:51.000 That's why there's so many contradictions inside of it.
00:29:54.000 And this was not the dominant idea back in the days.
00:29:57.000 There's only really the Alexandrian school, who are like origin of Alexandrian others, that used to do that.
00:30:03.000 But apart from that, no bona fide church father used to do that, frankly.
00:30:07.000 Apart from the Alexandrian school.
00:30:10.000 So in other words, people have resorted To metaphorize in the Bible because of the contradictions inside of it.
00:30:17.000 And they can't solve those contradictions.
00:30:19.000 And so what we would say is that a true book from God cannot have contradictions.
00:30:24.000 That's why the Quran says that if this book was from other than God, you would have found in it many contradictions.
00:30:29.000 You would have found in it many contradictions.
00:30:33.000 And that's the challenge that we put to humanity.
00:30:36.000 That if the Quran is truly from other than God, then why are there no contradictions inside of it?
00:30:41.000 And so this is one of the many challenges that we put to humanity.
00:30:46.000 Go ahead.
00:30:47.000 Okay.
00:30:47.000 Thanks for your explanation.
00:30:49.000 I think it was really good.
00:30:50.000 I just question it because in my belief, I think Jesus was God and is God.
00:30:57.000 And at the same time, how do you dictate what's real and not in the Bible?
00:31:01.000 Like for example, I know you said it was changed numerous times, but how do you dictate what's real and what's not real in your sense?
00:31:09.000 Because I've seen many times in the Bible where he says, I am God in different ways.
00:31:13.000 But in your stance, you're saying it's not true because things have changed over the years.
00:31:18.000 But how do you know what's real and what's not in the Bible?
00:31:21.000 So what is God?
00:31:22.000 Let me ask you this.
00:31:23.000 What is God?
00:31:25.000 The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
00:31:27.000 The one that guides us through our daily life.
00:31:30.000 Do you define God as the all-powerful, the all-knowing God?
00:31:35.000 Do you define God in those terms, like the beginning, no beginning, no end?
00:31:39.000 Do you define God as the one who's all-powerful, the creator of the universe?
00:31:42.000 Yes.
00:31:43.000 Okay, so when you pray to God, you are praying to the creator of the universe?
00:31:48.000 Yes.
00:31:49.000 Alright, so if you're praying to the creator of the universe and the one who's all-powerful, the one who's without limitation, the one who is all-knowing and so on, there are many things about Jesus which make him impossible to be God.
00:32:04.000 For example, if he's a human being, he is limited in knowledge.
00:32:08.000 And in fact, if you look at the book of Mark chapter 13, I think verse 34, you'll find that he went to the tree and he didn't know if it was in season.
00:32:17.000 He didn't know when the hour was going to be.
00:32:19.000 For example, he said no one knows when the hour is going to be except for the Father.
00:32:24.000 So if Jesus is God, how come he's lacking in knowledge when we've already defined God as being all knowledgeable?
00:32:32.000 What would you say to that?
00:32:34.000 Okay, so...
00:32:36.000 As God being all-knowing and being the father, right?
00:32:39.000 Let's say Jesus is his son, right?
00:32:42.000 Maybe as a father, you don't tell your son everything that you want him to know up front.
00:32:47.000 Maybe things need to be hidden.
00:32:48.000 But the son is meant to be all-knowing because the son, Jesus is meant to be all-knowing.
00:32:52.000 Okay.
00:32:53.000 The Holy Spirit is meant to be God, because the Trinity says the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God.
00:32:59.000 If no one, according to the Bible, it says no one knows the hour except for the Father, okay?
00:33:04.000 So, does the Holy Spirit know the hour according to the Bible?
00:33:09.000 I've not seen the verse saying that, but I would assume yes.
00:33:13.000 No, no.
00:33:14.000 The verse says the opposite of that.
00:33:16.000 So the verse says that no one knows the hour except for the Father, right?
00:33:21.000 Which means that the Holy Spirit is precluded, is not included in that.
00:33:25.000 So if that's the case, if the Holy Spirit is meant to be God, and being God means knowing everything, then there's a contradiction there.
00:33:34.000 Do you see the point?
00:33:36.000 I see what you're saying.
00:33:37.000 Yeah, so a contradiction is meant to be false.
00:33:40.000 It's wrong.
00:33:41.000 So if you're speaking to, for example, you know, when you speak to your guests on intersexual dynamics or whatever, and then one of them says, you know, if one of those women come, you know, one of those escorts, or sorry to say, well, I don't know what they are.
00:33:54.000 If one of them, I don't know what they are.
00:33:56.000 But let's say one of those escorts come and say, what do you consider yourself?
00:33:59.000 You say to her, what do you consider yourself?
00:34:01.000 So you say, okay, you know, she says, I'm 7 out of 10.
00:34:07.000 And then two minutes later, she says, I'm a 6 out of 10.
00:34:11.000 And then two minutes later, she goes, I'm a 1 out of 10.
00:34:13.000 You're going to say this is a grand contradiction.
00:34:16.000 Either that or you're confused.
00:34:18.000 So if Jesus is meant to be God, he has to be all-knowing.
00:34:23.000 If the Holy Spirit is meant to be God, he has to be all-knowing.
00:34:26.000 But he can't be all-knowing and not know when the hour is because then that precludes a part of very essential knowledge.
00:34:31.000 You see the point?
00:34:33.000 Yes, but just going back to the first thing you said about the Bible contradicting itself, how would I know that that hasn't been changed too?
00:34:41.000 See, here's the problem.
00:34:42.000 How would I know that that verse hasn't been changed as well?
00:34:46.000 You get what I'm saying?
00:34:47.000 What verse?
00:34:47.000 Oh yeah, exactly.
00:34:48.000 Yeah.
00:34:49.000 So you've got layers of problems here.
00:34:51.000 You've got issues here.
00:34:52.000 But hold on.
00:34:52.000 You've got one issue that you don't even know what verse has been changed and what hasn't.
00:34:56.000 Then you've got the other issue, which is that the concept of God according to Christianity is contradictory.
00:35:00.000 Because you have one God...
00:35:03.000 So Jesus is God, the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, but there's only one God, you see.
00:35:10.000 So this ain't no contradiction that I'm outlining right here.
00:35:13.000 Because if you went to your child who's seven years old, and you said to him, look, we believe that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, but there's only one God, and you do this, and you show your three fingers like that.
00:35:25.000 I'm pretty sure that your child is going to say...
00:35:27.000 This is a problem here, Dad, you know, because this is something which is basic, that this is a contradiction in the idea of conception of God.
00:35:37.000 All Christians, Catholics believe in this, Protestants believe in this.
00:35:41.000 And so Islam solves the problem, because what Islam does for you, it says, there's only one God, Jesus was not a God.
00:35:47.000 He was, yes, a great man.
00:35:49.000 He was the Messiah.
00:35:50.000 He was a prophet.
00:35:51.000 We accept Jesus.
00:35:52.000 We believe He's the second coming, all of that kind of stuff.
00:35:54.000 But to believe that He's actually God, that we pray to Him, when He Himself, according to the Bible, was on a cross, and He was saying, God, God, why have you forsaken Me?
00:36:05.000 Who is He even speaking to then?
00:36:07.000 Like, in the Bible, this is what He's mentioned.
00:36:09.000 God, God, why have you...
00:36:13.000 Forsaken me.
00:36:14.000 So it seems to me that this would be a grand contradiction.
00:36:17.000 And if he did die and then was resurrected, as in Easter, because we're in Easter time, as what the, you know, the Christians believe.
00:36:26.000 If that was the case, then who was running the universe at that time?
00:36:30.000 You know?
00:36:31.000 You could say, well, his body died and his soul didn't...
00:36:34.000 Really, it's hermeneutical gymnastics.
00:36:38.000 Mental acrobatics.
00:36:39.000 That's what we have to do in order to believe in things like this, brother.
00:36:42.000 I have to be honest with you.
00:36:44.000 Okay.
00:36:45.000 So just real quick, and then this is my last point here.
00:36:47.000 So you mentioned earlier about showing your son or your daughter three fingers, saying one is God.
00:36:52.000 But you mentioned earlier that God is all-knowing, powerful, almighty, correct?
00:36:56.000 Right.
00:36:57.000 So, as a man, who are we to question his logic and judgment for his creation, which is basically us questioning him as being God.
00:37:07.000 So you're saying three in one doesn't make sense to us, but it makes sense to him.
00:37:11.000 You know what I'm saying?
00:37:12.000 And then, just real quick here, you mentioned...
00:37:15.000 Jesus isn't God as well.
00:37:16.000 You can use the argument with every single girl that comes on your podcast and says, look, I'm a transgender.
00:37:21.000 I'm this, I'm that.
00:37:22.000 We'll say, look, it doesn't make sense to you, but it makes sense to God.
00:37:25.000 Truth is not relative.
00:37:26.000 Truth is objective.
00:37:28.000 But hold on.
00:37:28.000 Like, for example, if I said 2 plus 2 equals 4, you cannot say, well, 2 plus 2 equals 4 to me, but it doesn't mean it to you or to God.
00:37:35.000 If 2 plus 2 equals 4...
00:37:38.000 It's not something which is static.
00:37:39.000 All kinds of absurdities will result.
00:37:41.000 So for example, the law of non-contradiction, yeah?
00:37:44.000 That you cannot have two opposite things at the same place at the same time existing together.
00:37:48.000 You cannot have a tall, short man.
00:37:50.000 You cannot have, you know, a squared circle and so on and so forth.
00:37:55.000 If you do away with this rule, then any absurdity follows.
00:38:00.000 That's a logical precept.
00:38:01.000 If you do away with the law of non-contradiction, any absurdity follows, which means truth is not even something which is obtainable anymore.
00:38:09.000 There's no such thing as truth.
00:38:11.000 If you remove the laws of logic, then there is no such thing as truth.
00:38:15.000 An absurdity can follow from that.
00:38:17.000 Yeah, that would apply to people, human beings, but to God, you're putting a lot of restriction.
00:38:22.000 You know what I'm saying?
00:38:23.000 But real quick, so...
00:38:24.000 No, no, no, just on this point, I wouldn't agree because I'm saying to you that the laws of logic apply.
00:38:32.000 God is the one who, we would say, He is the one who set the laws of logic Himself.
00:38:39.000 The thing is, if you don't believe in the laws of logic, and for example, non-contradiction, or for example, 2 plus 2 equals 4, if you don't believe in any of that, then you can't have a conversation with anyone about anything because there's no common ground.
00:38:50.000 You can never find out what truth is.
00:38:52.000 Okay, so creation itself, who decided 2 plus 2 plus 4?
00:38:57.000 Mandate, right?
00:38:59.000 I'm just saying, on a basis, 2 plus 2, who decided that?
00:39:04.000 Who decided 2 plus 2 equals 4?
00:39:06.000 Is that a serious question?
00:39:08.000 I'm asking you.
00:39:09.000 No one decided 2 plus 2 equals 4.
00:39:11.000 How did it come about?
00:39:14.000 Look, mathematics is a language.
00:39:17.000 Mathematics is a language.
00:39:20.000 Actually, it's a tautology.
00:39:22.000 Tautology is when you say the same thing twice.
00:39:25.000 2 plus 2 is an expression of 4.
00:39:28.000 The equal sign in mathematics shows that 2 plus 2 is equivalent to 4.
00:39:33.000 Do you get it?
00:39:34.000 So it's like, say, a tautology, if I'm saying, it's raining, it's raining, I'm saying the same thing twice.
00:39:38.000 It's always true.
00:39:39.000 So because in logic, a tautology is always true, anything with an equal science in mathematics is also always true.
00:39:47.000 No one decided that.
00:39:49.000 That's something which you call an objective truth.
00:39:51.000 If you don't have it, you won't be able to do physics, you won't be able to do science, you can't do logic, you can't even have a conversation.
00:39:57.000 I agree.
00:39:58.000 Let me tell you something, brother.
00:39:59.000 I'll be honest with you, my friend.
00:40:00.000 What is your name again?
00:40:02.000 Fresh.
00:40:04.000 Fresh, my friend, if you really believed in what you're talking about right now, which is that you're okay to think that potentially the laws of logic or mathematics can be relative...
00:40:16.000 Then really, where you see it right now...
00:40:20.000 That's not the argument though.
00:40:22.000 What is the argument?
00:40:23.000 If I'm God and I'm the creator, I'm almighty, I don't follow the rules of logic or whatever you say as man.
00:40:30.000 Why would I do that?
00:40:31.000 I'm just questioning because I want to know from your opinion, how can you question God himself?
00:40:36.000 If he's a creator and almighty.
00:40:37.000 I'm telling you, brother, that 2 plus 2 equals 4.
00:40:40.000 2 plus 2 equals 4 is something which is tautological.
00:40:43.000 Yeah, for man.
00:40:44.000 It is something which is true always and it's objectively true.
00:40:46.000 But not for God, though.
00:40:48.000 You get what I'm saying?
00:40:48.000 It's objectively true for God as well, yes.
00:40:51.000 No, but you're putting that on God himself.
00:40:53.000 How can you do that?
00:40:53.000 I'm not putting it on God.
00:40:54.000 God put it on us.
00:40:55.000 You just did!
00:40:56.000 God put that on us.
00:40:57.000 No, as man, but not as God himself.
00:40:59.000 God put that on us.
00:41:00.000 I don't put anything on God.
00:41:01.000 God made it so that the universe...
00:41:05.000 The universe and our minds, a priori, all the logical precepts that we come to, are based on what you call the laws of logic.
00:41:15.000 Do you get it?
00:41:16.000 If you do away with the law, like I said before, if you do away with the laws of logic, everything fails.
00:41:21.000 Do you get me?
00:41:24.000 You can't have a discussion about anything.
00:41:26.000 We're going to disagree on this point.
00:41:29.000 Okay, no problem.
00:41:30.000 The fact is 2 plus 2 is 4 in the human world.
00:41:33.000 I'm just saying in God's realm, it could be in anything.
00:41:36.000 What's God's realm?
00:41:38.000 I'm proposing that 2 plus 2 equals 4 in every possible world.
00:41:44.000 That's what I'm proposing.
00:41:45.000 But how do you know?
00:41:46.000 You're not God.
00:41:47.000 If you put it in a modal logic format, it's the same thing.
00:41:50.000 No...
00:41:51.000 Okay.
00:41:52.000 With a possible worlds format.
00:41:54.000 Like, for example, something called modal logic.
00:41:57.000 There's no contradiction in that.
00:41:59.000 For you to say 2 plus 2 is not equal to 4 in all possible worlds, you have to show me a contradiction of 2 plus 2 equals 4.
00:42:06.000 No, but I'm not talking about, for example, us as human beings.
00:42:10.000 Let me be honest with you, Fresh.
00:42:12.000 I honestly don't believe that you would put your life on the fact that 2 plus 2 is not equal to 4 in every possible world.
00:42:19.000 But you are forced to talk about it like this because you know you cannot defend the Trinity without rejecting logic.
00:42:27.000 Well, the reason why is because you mentioned before the Bible has contradictions.
00:42:30.000 I don't want to go into that because obviously speaking, you could just say it's wrong or right.
00:42:33.000 I'm just saying naturally, if you look at God as a creator, being almighty, if he decides 2 plus 2 is 3...
00:42:43.000 2 plus 2, you cannot be decided to be 3.
00:42:49.000 Because what that would be, that itself, that process is an impossibility.
00:42:54.000 It's like saying God can create a squared circle.
00:42:56.000 So the process of deciding that 2 plus 2 equals 3 is not possible in the real world.
00:43:01.000 It's in the category of logical classification called impossibilities.
00:43:08.000 Do you get it?
00:43:09.000 And impossibilities cannot exist in the real world.
00:43:11.000 So, for example, a squared circle cannot exist in the real world.
00:43:14.000 Likewise, the decision or the act of deciding that 2 plus 2 equals 3 cannot be made true in the real world.
00:43:21.000 Do you get it?
00:43:23.000 I get you, bro.
00:43:25.000 Okay, let's move on to the next thing, brother.
00:43:27.000 We can think about this in our own time, religion.
00:43:30.000 I wanted to speak about more your stuff, guys, because, you know, I know you guys do intersexual dynamics.
00:43:34.000 Let me ask you a question, guys.
00:43:36.000 I want to get to it, which is, what do you decide is a high-value man?
00:43:41.000 I want my role in this as well, because we spoke about religion.
00:43:45.000 I let people decide what they think is right.
00:43:48.000 But you guys are, let's say you're specialists now.
00:43:51.000 This is your area.
00:43:52.000 I want to pick your brains a little bit because I think you don't know.
00:43:55.000 Your impact is actually quite a significant impact.
00:43:58.000 And I think that you actually made some very interesting contributions, you know, especially what now they call it the men's rights movement or, you know, men's activism.
00:44:08.000 And I think some of your contributions, frankly, are good.
00:44:12.000 I've heard some of them.
00:44:13.000 I watched on YouTube.
00:44:14.000 I wanted to start with this question.
00:44:16.000 What do you guys think is a high-value man?
00:44:19.000 How do you define it?
00:44:19.000 You want to go first?
00:44:20.000 Go ahead.
00:44:20.000 You go ahead.
00:44:21.000 Go ahead, man.
00:44:22.000 No, I don't want to continue real quick.
00:44:25.000 I want to go further in religion, but it's fine.
00:44:27.000 I mean, y'all can if you guys want.
00:44:30.000 No, let's do a topic.
00:44:32.000 I mean, this is a subjective thing, right?
00:44:34.000 For everyone, it's going to be different.
00:44:36.000 So I don't really think there's a truly wrong or right answer.
00:44:40.000 But what I will say is that it's going to probably err on the side of, obviously, a higher earner than average.
00:44:48.000 Someone who has respect from other individuals, has a network of people that are also on his level as far as status, whether it's financial, social, etc.
00:44:58.000 And he's somebody that other people want to essentially be like.
00:45:02.000 I mean, to put it bluntly, is the guy that other women want to be with and other men want to be, if I'm going to put it very simply.
00:45:09.000 How about you, Fresh?
00:45:09.000 What do you say about this?
00:45:11.000 So the term high value, the word itself, I get it, is being used wrong.
00:45:15.000 Yeah, we hate using that term.
00:45:16.000 We never use it.
00:45:17.000 We actually never use that term.
00:45:18.000 Yeah.
00:45:18.000 Ever.
00:45:19.000 I hate it.
00:45:19.000 But it means something in the world today, so we use it sparingly.
00:45:23.000 But I would say...
00:45:24.000 I'm intrigued by it.
00:45:26.000 I'm not necessarily...
00:45:27.000 I'm not throwing what you're saying out the window.
00:45:29.000 Fresh, were you going to say something?
00:45:31.000 No, no, no.
00:45:32.000 I was going to just define high value for me.
00:45:34.000 Go on, go ahead, please, yeah.
00:45:35.000 So it just means a man that has worked on himself, he's successful in his own right, has a network of people around him that care about him and respect him, and at the same time has value to the marketplace.
00:45:45.000 For example, maybe it could be singing, it could be, for example, his business, it could be, for example, his skill set to the public.
00:45:51.000 Whatever that may be makes him high value in the eyes of other people as a whole.
00:45:55.000 That's what I would say.
00:45:56.000 Would you say that, and this is a question to both of you, is this an intrinsic classification or is it extrinsic?
00:46:01.000 In the sense that if it's intrinsic, then, for example, like a block of gold, it has intrinsic value.
00:46:07.000 But let's say, for example, like, you know, let's say a TikToker, yeah, doing some kind of a video dancing or something like that.
00:46:15.000 You couldn't say that that has intrinsic value, but its value is dictated by the marketplace.
00:46:19.000 So is your classification of a high value man, is it more intrinsic or extrinsic in that sense?
00:46:25.000 So I would say it's up to the individual.
00:46:28.000 Because I made a song, High Value Man.
00:46:31.000 Funny song, by the way.
00:46:32.000 But the term itself, high value, was used as a precursor for wearing watches and chains and having success, cars and girls.
00:46:41.000 But that was my opinion at the time what high value was.
00:46:44.000 But as you evolve, you become more placed on different aspects of life.
00:46:48.000 And maybe for you, maybe just a tiktoker that's on the internet with a lot of views.
00:46:51.000 So I think it's just up to the person or individual what they decide for that to be.
00:46:57.000 I've got a take on this, guys.
00:46:59.000 I don't know what you guys think of this.
00:47:01.000 Yeah, go ahead.
00:47:03.000 Hello?
00:47:03.000 No, go ahead.
00:47:04.000 We got you.
00:47:05.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry.
00:47:06.000 So I was going to say, look, I get what you guys are saying, especially when you speak about men and women, yeah?
00:47:12.000 But here's my take on this.
00:47:14.000 I think there's a kernel of truth in what you guys are saying, but I think it's mostly in the economic marketplace.
00:47:20.000 So for example, here's what I would say.
00:47:22.000 When you guys use the term high value, you're usually using it in terms of what women would be attracted to, i.e.
00:47:30.000 vis-a-vis something like hypergamy.
00:47:32.000 And there's ample evidence, there's a Quing study, which I think is the most authoritative, that hypergamy is true, in the sense that if a woman is given a choice between a man with a satiris paribus, everything else remaining the same, a man who's a higher earner versus a lower earner,
00:47:49.000 she's always going to go for the higher earner, in fact.
00:47:51.000 And that's the truth.
00:47:53.000 Likewise, a lot of the stuff about what you say about women, women who have less experience in what you call a body count or something like that, it's true that that's probably in the market, sexual market value is probably going to be less ceteris paribus, everything else remaining the same.
00:48:09.000 However...
00:48:10.000 Here's the thing that I would think that is important to distinguish between.
00:48:15.000 This is why I asked you the question about intrinsic versus extrinsic.
00:48:19.000 Because in this very strict parameter of how the other or the opposite gender sees that person for marriage or long-term committal relationship or even casual relationship, that this whole high-value man has weight.
00:48:34.000 This term has weight.
00:48:36.000 But if we're talking about intrinsically, as like, for example, remember I gave you the example of the block of gold versus the TikTok video.
00:48:43.000 Intrinsically, a high-value man has always classically meant, usually in ethics, for example, all the way up to Christian morality and Islamic morality and Jewish morality, most of the world's cultures, a high-value man or a high-value woman, Has always been like a virtuous man or a virtuous woman.
00:49:00.000 So virtue dictates the value of someone on an intrinsic level.
00:49:05.000 Virtue.
00:49:06.000 So what is virtue?
00:49:07.000 Like, in the past, even before Christ, you had a person called Aristotle who died 323 BCE. He wrote a book called Nicomachean Ethics.
00:49:16.000 And he had something called Virtue Ethics, which basically, like, he mentioned some of the key virtues for human beings.
00:49:23.000 The most important one for a man That makes him high value, opposite to a woman, and this is what I'm putting forward.
00:49:30.000 In that paradigm, and also in the paradigm of Islam and Christianity, I would argue, and Judaism, is bravery.
00:49:37.000 I'll put it this way.
00:49:38.000 If you had the most rich man in the world, but he was a coward, he'd not be a high value man.
00:49:44.000 It would be a disqualifier.
00:49:46.000 On an intrinsic level.
00:49:47.000 Yes, he might be sought after.
00:49:50.000 It might be sought after in terms of like women might still want to be with him, but they don't really want to be with him because of what he is or who he is.
00:49:58.000 They want to be with him because of what he can offer.
00:50:01.000 In other words, they want to be with his money, really.
00:50:03.000 They want to have access to his money.
00:50:05.000 So they're using him, utility value.
00:50:08.000 Yeah, they're using him for his money because they're trying to access funds.
00:50:11.000 That's what they're trying to do.
00:50:12.000 He's basically an ATM machine.
00:50:14.000 And so what I wanted to distinguish between is a high value man on an intrinsic level who exhibits things like temperance, magnanimity, forgiveness, mercy, kindness, but most and chief most among which is bravery because a man needs bravery more than a woman to provide and protect.
00:50:35.000 So, I would agree with that, but my thing is, that's why I was very, because you only spoke about it from the female lens, like how women deem the guy high value, but what I'm saying is that you garner the respect of other men, and a coward does not garner the respect of other men.
00:50:51.000 That's why it's very important, like when I look at this term, not to just look at it from the lens of what females are attracted to, rather, what do other men respect?
00:51:06.000 That's right.
00:51:15.000 That you're a virtuous man and that you're not a coward when other men respect you.
00:51:19.000 Because men, we tend to value other men based on their meritocracy.
00:51:22.000 And that meritocracy is encapsulated in a bunch of different traits.
00:51:26.000 Are you honest?
00:51:27.000 Are you a man of your word?
00:51:28.000 Are you trustworthy?
00:51:30.000 Can I trust you to get something done and get it done when you say you're gonna get it done?
00:51:35.000 Are you willing to stand up for not just yourself, but for other people that you love and care about?
00:51:41.000 So cowardice has never been respected.
00:51:43.000 I would say that the virtue, that argument that you're making, which I agree with actually, falls into the other men respecting you because that's what men respect is meritocracy.
00:51:54.000 Well, I see what you're saying, but here's the thing.
00:51:56.000 So this is an interesting parameter, but it's also an economic one.
00:52:00.000 So folks, I agree with what you said.
00:52:01.000 I think that other men would respect meritocracy.
00:52:04.000 Another man with a lot of money, right?
00:52:07.000 They would never respect a man who's a coward, even if he has a lot of money.
00:52:10.000 So here's the point.
00:52:11.000 I think that a lot of the red pill stuff that we get involved in and stuff, or the discussions that we have, we overemphasize How much money we have to make in order to satisfy or to attract other women.
00:52:27.000 And we under-emphasize the virtue aspect of it.
00:52:31.000 And I'm not saying that the money aspect of it is not important.
00:52:34.000 I'm pretty sure that the money aspect of it is important, especially depending on how generous the man is.
00:52:39.000 Because if the man is not generous, which is one of the virtues, having a lot of money is not a problem.
00:52:43.000 It doesn't matter.
00:52:44.000 Even the woman, if she finds him to be stingy and wealthy, that combination will never work out because she knows what he's trying to do.
00:52:52.000 So I feel like maybe, I don't know, moving forward with like fresh and fit and stuff, if we focus on the virtue aspect of things a little bit more, because I feel like the society is moving on to a degenerate state, bro.
00:53:05.000 I'm not going to lie to you.
00:53:07.000 And that is fueled by hedonism and capitalism, and also this idea that now Mammoth is the new god, which is the god of money.
00:53:17.000 The god of money is the new god.
00:53:19.000 People are now chasing money and hedonism and frivolous pursuits.
00:53:25.000 They think that, for example, Ronald Tomasi wrote a book called The Rational Mail, right?
00:53:30.000 He's had them on your show before.
00:53:31.000 I've read the entire book cover to cover.
00:53:33.000 And he mentions in his book that, you know, you need to sleep with 50 women or whatever it may be in order to achieve certain levels so you can really have the experience, yeah, to be with women.
00:53:44.000 I think I've seen you, Fresh, mention something like that before because I watched a video before with you guys and Sneeko having a discussion on Destiny.
00:53:51.000 Yeah, we've all, Fresh calls it spinning, not Fresh, excuse me, Rollo calls it spinning plates or plate theory.
00:53:55.000 Yeah.
00:53:55.000 I call it getting experience, right, and being able to understand how the sexual marketplace works.
00:54:03.000 But yeah, I mean, sorry, you were saying?
00:54:05.000 But on this point, bro, here's what I would say.
00:54:07.000 Yeah.
00:54:09.000 There is no evidence...
00:54:11.000 There is no evidence that having sex with a lot of women translates into an ability to understand women in the context of a committed relationship or a longevity relationship.
00:54:22.000 There is no evidence of that.
00:54:24.000 So this is where the red pill makes a lot of claims, assertions, but they're not backed because the idea is I feel like there's just ad hoc justifications and rationalization for hedonism.
00:54:37.000 Which is effectively just doing whatever you want and whatever you desire.
00:54:41.000 But really, let's assess this claim.
00:54:44.000 The claim that if you have sex with a lot of women, that that's going to lead to you knowing women more and therefore having a stronger relationship, more longevity relationship with some kind of woman.
00:54:54.000 But it doesn't seem to me that there's any evidence to that effect.
00:54:57.000 Because I was looking at some studies on casual sex.
00:55:01.000 Yeah.
00:55:02.000 And I was looking at, there was like five or six of them that have been done.
00:55:05.000 And all of those studies, first of all, they're mixed.
00:55:07.000 They're contradictory, funny enough.
00:55:09.000 Some of them say that, yeah, they harm women.
00:55:11.000 Actually, most of them say they harm women.
00:55:12.000 Casual sex harm women.
00:55:13.000 That is a consensus psychological finding.
00:55:16.000 It harms men too, a lot of these studies, but it doesn't harm it.
00:55:19.000 Some of them say it harms men.
00:55:21.000 Some of them say it doesn't harm men.
00:55:22.000 Yeah.
00:55:23.000 There's no study that says it helps them in relationships.
00:55:25.000 Do you know what I mean?
00:55:26.000 Yeah, of course not.
00:55:27.000 And they would never run a study like that because it would be considered unethical, right?
00:55:30.000 And we know that, you know, when they run these studies, they have to be politically correct.
00:55:33.000 They got to get funding.
00:55:33.000 They have to do it in a certain way to get the blessing.
00:55:36.000 But what I will say is with the whole...
00:55:41.000 Body, sleeping with women or whatever it may be.
00:55:43.000 It's not necessarily to understand women better.
00:55:46.000 It's to understand the women that you don't want to necessarily be with.
00:55:48.000 And I think that's half the game because what ends up happening, right?
00:55:51.000 And remember, I mean, you're in the UK, so you know this too.
00:55:54.000 I mean, the UK is going through this as well.
00:55:56.000 We live in a very hyper-sexualized world where women are more promiscuous than ever before.
00:56:00.000 So my thing is, right, I look at it like, and I was just having a discussion with Andrew.
00:56:04.000 He's a devout Orthodox Christian, and he saw my perspective on this too.
00:56:07.000 If you're going to try to meet a woman in the West where they are promiscuous, they don't necessarily adhere to gender roles when it doesn't benefit them, they want a man that makes money, but they don't want to necessarily submit, etc., I think it's very important for you as a man to identify these women early on and not bring them into your life.
00:56:26.000 Because the beauty of religion, right, whether it's Christianity or Islam or Judaism is that it basically had an institution of shame and it had what I call training wheels to keep women honest with their man.
00:56:39.000 It pretty much shamed them for not doing things that they were supposed to do.
00:56:42.000 But these training wheels are effectively gone.
00:56:44.000 We live in a secular world now.
00:56:45.000 And unless you're a very religious man and you're meeting a very religious woman, it's going to be very difficult for you to find a woman that's virtuous.
00:56:51.000 So my thing is, I think...
00:56:53.000 And the other reason why I think this is so important is because...
00:56:57.000 When you get married, right, luckily, you know, in Islam, you can't just go to a mosque, go to an imam, he'll marry you, boom, done.
00:57:04.000 You don't got to worry about the state being involved.
00:57:06.000 But most people don't get married that way.
00:57:08.000 They get married through the state.
00:57:09.000 And with the way the family courts are set up, with the way divorce is set up, with the way it's basically an entire industry against men, I look at it like, if you're going to go ahead and you want to have a family one day, which is the nuclear family, which is the backbone of society, and you want to get married...
00:57:25.000 You are taking on a tremendous amount of risk and I don't want you to go in blind.
00:57:28.000 However, if you're getting married and the state isn't involved and there's no severe consequences to you financially, then sure, go ahead and be less sexually experienced and meet a woman because at least you're not going to be severely punished for it.
00:57:39.000 But my thing is, the reason why I even gave that idea like, hey, get with more women so that you understand them, is because I just don't want men to deal with the whores of the family court.
00:57:49.000 Now, is it the best solution?
00:57:51.000 Probably not, but I think it's a pragmatic one given the world that we're in now.
00:57:57.000 Here's the thing.
00:57:57.000 I just want to know what the evidence is of, for example, having intercourse with multiple women, what benefit, like let's say 50 to 30, what benefit are you alleging that it has on the man?
00:58:10.000 That's a fair question.
00:58:11.000 Every man has different competence, right?
00:58:13.000 So one guy might be able to hook up with 10 girls and be like, okay, you know what?
00:58:16.000 I get it.
00:58:18.000 It is what it is.
00:58:19.000 But another guy might be incompetent, might be an idiot.
00:58:23.000 Everyone's...
00:58:24.000 Level of adaptation is different.
00:58:26.000 So I'm not saying, oh, have a hard 50 and don't get married.
00:58:29.000 It's like, no, if you find a girl that's worthy, that's fine.
00:58:32.000 And I would argue that, like, our podcast is like, we're able to kind of fast line it where, you know, remember, this information hasn't been out for very long.
00:58:39.000 So people are kind of learning now through us talking about it on our platform, etc.
00:58:43.000 So they might not necessarily have to even hit 50 because they're learning from our mistakes.
00:58:46.000 You know, the Chinese say...
00:58:48.000 But if they do get 50, what's the benefit of that?
00:58:50.000 What do they get from that?
00:58:53.000 Well, hopefully, depending on the individual, they are able to identify women that are worthy versus ones that aren't.
00:58:59.000 In a sexual capacity?
00:59:02.000 Well, I'm also assuming that this person would be seeing this woman.
00:59:05.000 If they're just looking to have sex, then obviously it's going to be a waste.
00:59:08.000 But I'm talking about, you know, you're obviously corning this woman, you're hanging out with this woman, etc.
00:59:13.000 You're seeing her.
00:59:14.000 But look, my friend had your book.
00:59:16.000 I was trying to look for it myself.
00:59:18.000 It's cool.
00:59:18.000 Oh, nice.
00:59:20.000 I was trying to find something.
00:59:22.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:59:22.000 And actually, I was flicking through it right before I spoke to you.
00:59:25.000 And I like that, like, you know, the...
00:59:28.000 The statistics you have on here, one of them that you had on here was, for example, that a man will spend 30 hours or something like this, doing 30 hours doing speed dating online in order to just get one date, 1.46 date in the year or something like that.
00:59:46.000 Now, what I'm saying is that to get 50 women, look, you know it's a numbers game and I know it's a numbers game.
00:59:52.000 The feasibility, the amount of man hours that you're going to need to put in to have intercourse with 50 women that are not prostitutes, according to your statistics that you mentioned, right?
01:00:01.000 The amount of man hours, we're talking about if he's going to use Tinder or some kind of an app.
01:00:06.000 And according to these stats, he's going to need to do a lot of that, right?
01:00:09.000 And the question of benefit here is an important one.
01:00:12.000 Obviously from a religious standpoint, Muslims, Christians and Jews all agree that sex shouldn't even be done outside of marriage.
01:00:19.000 Now, it is still possible to marry 50 women.
01:00:21.000 I mean, I'm not saying you cannot marry and divorce 50 women.
01:00:24.000 It's a possibility.
01:00:25.000 But I'm not necessarily saying...
01:00:28.000 That one should do that.
01:00:29.000 Of course, we wouldn't agree that one should do that.
01:00:32.000 The point I'm trying to get at is that there isn't actually any good evidence that having intercourse with that many women would give you a kind of benefit in the relationship.
01:00:41.000 In fact, you could argue for the opposite.
01:00:43.000 Because if you get sex very easily, going back to the idea of virtue, then you can be less restrained in your sexual appetites.
01:00:54.000 And this is something that in virtue ethics is referred to as temperance.
01:00:57.000 So if you're less restrained, you don't have as much, you don't have as much restraint, for example.
01:01:03.000 You don't have self-control.
01:01:04.000 And if you don't have willpower and self-control in one area, you're less likely to have it in other areas.
01:01:10.000 And I've read that in a book Willpower, funny enough, by Roy Baumeister.
01:01:14.000 Very fantastic book.
01:01:15.000 I recommend it.
01:01:16.000 But he mentioned the point that if you have willpower in one area, for example, he mentioned fasting, religious fasting as an example, Roy Baumeister.
01:01:25.000 If you have willpower and discipline in one area, it's transferable to other areas.
01:01:31.000 The idea of getting 50 women having sex with them, which is difficult anyway, according to these stats, because just because you're dating a woman, it doesn't mean you're going to have sex with her.
01:01:38.000 As you know, like for the average person, you guys might not be the average person because, you know, from a status perspective, you guys have got, you know, big channel, good money coming in.
01:01:47.000 The guy's wearing a nice Rolex red face.
01:01:49.000 I like it.
01:01:50.000 They're fresh.
01:01:51.000 And you're wearing a nice watch as well.
01:01:53.000 It's chocolate.
01:01:54.000 You guys are well put together.
01:01:55.000 Thank you, bro.
01:01:55.000 Thank you, bro.
01:01:57.000 So, not everyone is fresh and not everyone's my own gains.
01:02:00.000 Yeah.
01:02:00.000 And so it's not going to be easy to get sex like that.
01:02:03.000 So, for them to put 30 hours to 50 hours to get one date, and then after that, to get like 100 of those dates, maybe 30, I don't know how many, what the numbers would be, a conversion rate.
01:02:13.000 Five dates to one woman having sex, maybe?
01:02:15.000 I don't know.
01:02:17.000 Keep in mind, right, because people tend to criticize my, you know, my idea that you should have sex with 50 women.
01:02:24.000 But there's a bunch of other things I tell the guys to have in place as well.
01:02:27.000 They should make a certain amount of money, 35 years old, be in shape.
01:02:31.000 They need to have a bunch of things in line so that they can be in a position.
01:02:35.000 And the reason why I say this, like, so here's what it is.
01:02:39.000 Make six figures a year or more, have six months or a year of savings, be in shape, 50 women, and then be 35 years old.
01:02:46.000 The reason why I say have these five things in place is because most women will look at you as a higher status, more attractive male, which will inevitably put her in her feminine, put you in your masculine, so the relationship ends up actually working because we all know what happens when you deal with a rambunctious woman.
01:03:04.000 Now, does that mean that if the person reaches 10 bodies, 20 bodies, 30, 40, and he has other things in place, oh, no, sorry, baby, I can't commit to you because I need to hit 50.
01:03:14.000 No.
01:03:14.000 And like I said before, with our podcast, we might be able to curb it where they don't need to necessarily hit that number.
01:03:18.000 But I'm speaking from a general perspective for most people, and then also as far as the book goes with the dating stuff.
01:03:24.000 This is why I'm such a big proponent of not relying on online dating.
01:03:27.000 I tell people, meet girls through your friends, meet girls when you're out, meet them out in real life, use Instagram.
01:03:33.000 We have multiple different ways that you need to go ahead and source women.
01:03:37.000 Now, with that said, of course, if you're religious, then this might not necessarily apply to you because you're...
01:03:43.000 You're going against your religious beliefs.
01:03:44.000 But my thing is this, if you're a religious guy, right, and you can't do this, that's totally fine.
01:03:49.000 The only thing I ask is I want them to make sure that they don't get married with the state.
01:03:54.000 You don't need to hit this body count number if you're getting married and it's just religious strictly and there I see.
01:04:00.000 Look, a lot of what you said there is very reasonable.
01:04:03.000 I don't think it's wrong for a man to aspire to make a certain amount of money.
01:04:09.000 I don't think it's wrong for them to put themselves in the place.
01:04:12.000 I think it's actually quite praiseworthy, frankly.
01:04:14.000 You know, there's nothing wrong with that.
01:04:15.000 My only issue is that the reason why I mentioned the 50 body count thing...
01:04:19.000 This is my analysis, Brian.
01:04:21.000 You can tell me what you think.
01:04:23.000 We're living in a time historians refer to as Pax Americana.
01:04:27.000 It's a time where America is a superpower, and as a result, Western countries have not had to have wars where they themselves are in danger in the ways that they had in the past.
01:04:38.000 It's more like incursions or invasions or whatever it may be.
01:04:41.000 As a result, we in the West are living in a state of relative ease and comfort.
01:04:47.000 Arthur Schopenhauer, a famous philosopher, he said that human beings or humankind, mankind, vacillates between extreme boredom and extreme fear.
01:05:00.000 I think now we're living in an age of extreme boredom because we're not fearing that someone's going to kill us in a war context.
01:05:08.000 As a result...
01:05:09.000 We are missing what most cultures in the past referred to as rites of passage for men.
01:05:14.000 This is where the masculinity crisis comes in.
01:05:17.000 Because before, a man could prove that he is a man by stepping on the battlefield.
01:05:21.000 Now, that kind of opportunity is no longer afforded to us on the same kind of level.
01:05:28.000 And as a result, we have invented rites of passage for men so that they can feel like they have gone through a certain process and now they're men.
01:05:36.000 And what I see with the Red Pill movement is that they've invented arbitrary and ad hoc rites of passage, which actually feed more into hedonistic liberal thinking.
01:06:01.000 He didn't necessarily give a hard number.
01:06:03.000 He just calls it plate theory.
01:06:05.000 Yeah, I mean, what I'm saying to you is, in the time it would take you to find non-prostitutes that are 50 in number that you can have sex with in the West, you can spend making money for yourself, you can spend working on yourself, you can spend improving your bravery,
01:06:22.000 improving your proficiency, your strength.
01:06:25.000 Because the thing is, I feel like there's an underlying assumption with the red pill movement, yeah?
01:06:30.000 And the assumption almost is that we should live our lives to make ourselves most marketable for women.
01:06:35.000 And I feel like that in irony...
01:06:38.000 That's not true.
01:06:39.000 That's not what we...
01:06:40.000 At all.
01:06:41.000 So I've always said...
01:06:42.000 Go on, go on.
01:06:43.000 And I talk about that in the book, too, is I want the guy to be the best version of himself, and then the women are a byproduct of it.
01:06:50.000 And I'm very explicit about that in the book, that like, hey, I don't want guys running around chasing women, spending a bunch of time and money and resources on women that don't necessarily want them, because what will end up happening is what you mentioned before.
01:06:59.000 He'll be looked at as a utility.
01:07:01.000 So I want the guy to develop these characteristics Of obviously sticking to his word, having these masculine traits, being a leader, being dominant, being assertive, going out there and conquering the world and becoming successful, becoming a catch, then the women are a byproduct.
01:07:15.000 Because whenever guys go ahead and chase women, a lot of problems arise.
01:07:18.000 So I tell guys, focus on yourself first and then the pursuit of women can come after.
01:07:22.000 That's why I said be at least 35 years old.
01:07:24.000 Beautiful.
01:07:25.000 It's good that you cleared that up.
01:07:26.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
01:07:27.000 Yeah, it's fantastic.
01:07:28.000 So now my question is, if they're focusing on themselves, why are they doing it?
01:07:33.000 Are they doing it?
01:07:34.000 Is there a purpose in life, which is an objective purpose in life that they are striving towards, or are they just doing it?
01:07:41.000 For another reason.
01:07:43.000 So what's the reason that they're doing all these things?
01:07:44.000 That's a fantastic question.
01:07:45.000 So, right, if I give you a gun, right, you can either choose to use it as a tool to hunt, to eat, or you can use it to commit crimes, right?
01:07:55.000 But I'm giving you the tool, and then it's up to you how you want to use it.
01:07:58.000 That's exactly what this knowledge is.
01:08:01.000 Some guys are going to use it to find their wife, be able to, you know, filter out the women that are worthy versus the women that aren't worthy, and they're able to use this skill set to their advantage for building a nuclear family.
01:08:10.000 Other guys are going to use it for more hedonistic things that you disagree with, which I see your perspective on that.
01:08:16.000 But my thing is I want to at least equip them with the tools so that they can decide what they want to do with their life.
01:08:21.000 Because my fear is I don't want them to get in a situation where the woman is dictating everything because the guy is aloof and not aware of what's going on in naïve.
01:08:28.000 And I think that aspect of it is probably where you excel the best and most because that aspect of it appeals to something deep within every single man, which is the ambitious drive to become better.
01:08:39.000 And so long as we're...
01:08:41.000 These things are very important that we're clarifying that we're not doing this because...
01:08:44.000 Of any woman.
01:08:45.000 And you know, like, I'm not sure if you've come across these archetypes, you know, the alpha male, the sigma male, and the beta male archetypes.
01:08:51.000 You've seen them online, and the differences between them.
01:08:53.000 You see, the sigma male archetype usually has what you're talking about.
01:08:57.000 He doesn't really care about what the woman is doing or saying or thinking.
01:09:01.000 Whereas the alpha male...
01:09:02.000 It's more his, you know, he is a status figure and as a result women are coming towards him and so on.
01:09:08.000 So here what I'm trying to advocate is more in line with that Sigma male archetype rather than the Alpha male or Beta male archetype.
01:09:15.000 So what I wanted to add as well is that the thing with Red Pill, bro, is There's a few elusive but important things in the manual of Red Pill, which I think you need to be aware of.
01:09:29.000 So, for example, if you look at Ronald Tomás' book, he mentions that this is not an ideology, but this is a praxology.
01:09:36.000 I don't know if you've come across this terminology, yeah?
01:09:38.000 Yeah.
01:09:40.000 And then he proceeds, in the end of his book, to writing down what he talks about as eight laws, or I think twelve iron laws, right?
01:09:51.000 Now, I know they're suggestive.
01:09:53.000 They're not prescriptive from one angle.
01:09:56.000 They're not obligatory.
01:09:57.000 You don't have to do them.
01:09:58.000 The 50 rule, the vasectomy that he talks about, all those kind of things, which are arbitrary in my opinion, and there's scanty evidence for their benefit, like I've said before, right?
01:10:06.000 But the vasectomy, the lack of family, don't get married, you know, these kinds of things that he talks about.
01:10:11.000 Don't get married and, you know, the iron laws and how many people you have to have sex with and all that kind of thing.
01:10:17.000 He does advocate for marriage.
01:10:18.000 He just doesn't advocate with how we do it today, with the state being involved.
01:10:24.000 And I totally, totally sympathize with that viewpoint, especially with the woman taking half of your wealth.
01:10:30.000 We would consider that to be a grand injustice anyway.
01:10:34.000 And a lot of the things about how a woman can withhold the children, and that's where I agree with Red Pill.
01:10:39.000 That's totally where I agree with them.
01:10:40.000 I think that's where the strongest arguments lie.
01:10:43.000 However, I'm going back to the point that there's something quite elusive about this situation because when something becomes ideological, when does something become ideological?
01:10:52.000 It becomes ideological when it becomes what you call teleological, when it becomes prescriptive to some extent.
01:10:58.000 And something can become prescriptive to some extent even if someone's making suggestions and giving advice.
01:11:03.000 I feel like Rollo Tomasi doesn't understand this point, because I saw his discussion with you and Sneeko and Destiny, and although I don't like the Lata person I just mentioned, Destiny, there, I don't like him.
01:11:13.000 I feel like he's a weasel of a man.
01:11:14.000 I don't think he's even a man.
01:11:15.000 I actually don't think he's a man, let alone a high-value man.
01:11:18.000 He's not even a man.
01:11:20.000 Him, Ben Shapiro, and all these other people that I mentioned in that discussion, they're not even men.
01:11:24.000 They don't even meet the threshold of men.
01:11:26.000 But putting that to the side, what I'm saying is that The red pill ideology is prescriptive and therefore it meets the threshold of ideological.
01:11:36.000 And so the Quran asks a question.
01:11:42.000 Do they have partners with God that have legislated that which he has not permitted?
01:11:48.000 When someone tells me to do something or not to do something, the question is from what greater authority are you coming with this information?
01:11:54.000 And people like Roland Tomasi, with all due respect to him, because he is a clever guy and he's respectable and I've seen his book and some of the stuff I totally agree with him on it.
01:12:01.000 But what authority do you have to give me iron laws or any kind of laws?
01:12:06.000 Do you know what I'm trying to say?
01:12:07.000 I showed a picture of him to some of the guys, some of the MMA fighters.
01:12:10.000 I don't know who they are.
01:12:11.000 Him with his hat and his ponytail and this kind of thing.
01:12:14.000 And they looked at him and said, this is a guy who's written a book.
01:12:17.000 Tell me what you think.
01:12:18.000 The first thing they said to him is, this is not the guy that's going to tell me how to be a man.
01:12:24.000 Well, would you respect him?
01:12:25.000 No, no, no.
01:12:25.000 I mean, you know, if you want, I can absolutely facilitate you guys having a discussion.
01:12:29.000 I think it'd be a great discussion.
01:12:30.000 But, you know, I can't really speak to his views.
01:12:33.000 I mean, me and him agree on a lot of things.
01:12:35.000 I don't have, you know, I don't have the nine iron rules like he does.
01:12:39.000 But I'd be happy to, you know, facilitate that discussion if you want to talk about that.
01:12:44.000 I mean, debate-wise, it'd be great.
01:12:46.000 I'm open to speak to anybody.
01:12:48.000 But the point I'm making to you is, going back to the point that we, in the West, we have these rites of passage that we think we have to go through in order to be men.
01:12:56.000 But the truth is, the rites of passage that you have to go through in order to be men is increasing and bettering all those virtues which are seen by cross-culturally, cross-religions, Christians, Muslims, Jews, everyone can agree, all those things.
01:13:11.000 Are good things, like for example, being brave, temperance, for example, having magnanimity, for example, having forgiveness, for example, being loving, for example, not being foolhardy, for example, not being cowardly, for example, and so on and so forth.
01:13:24.000 Do you get what I'm trying to say?
01:13:25.000 So if someone works on those things, increases their knowledge, and from our perspective as Muslims, has faith, that's when they attain...
01:13:33.000 A high-value man status.
01:13:35.000 That's what it is.
01:13:36.000 So high-value man for us is the virtuous man.
01:13:40.000 If the person cannot reach, if he's a coward, it doesn't matter how much money he is.
01:13:45.000 I don't care if Bezos or Musk.
01:13:47.000 If Musk one day is walking the street, Elon Musk, and he's with his kid, or he's with his wife, and someone slaps his wife, or shouts at his wife, or spits on his wife, and he cannot intervene and defend in a proper manner, or at least tries to defend her, I don't care how much money he's got,
01:14:05.000 how many platforms he owns, how many companies he's got.
01:14:07.000 He doesn't even meet the threshold of man anymore.
01:14:11.000 He's not even a man anymore, let alone high-value man.
01:14:14.000 It doesn't matter how much money you've got.
01:14:16.000 That's on an intrinsic level.
01:14:18.000 Yes, he's always going to have women that are going to want him.
01:14:20.000 But they're not going to want him for him.
01:14:21.000 They're going to want him for what he has.
01:14:24.000 He is a walking ATM machine.
01:14:25.000 He would be.
01:14:26.000 Do you get what I'm trying to say?
01:14:28.000 So that's where I feel like...
01:14:30.000 The emphasis should be also.
01:14:33.000 So, here's the thing.
01:14:34.000 So, and I don't blame you for this.
01:14:36.000 A lot of people don't know this stuff, but we do daytime shows, right?
01:14:39.000 Similar to this one that we're doing right now, where, obviously, you're a special guest, so we're not doing it today.
01:14:44.000 But on Mondays, we talk about how to earn money, right?
01:14:46.000 And obviously, earning, with becoming successful, earning money, you have to have certain characteristics of being disciplined, exercising temperance, being dedicated, etc., and putting off hedonism a lot of the times to become successful.
01:14:56.000 On Wednesdays, we talk about how to properly date and vet women.
01:14:59.000 And then on Fridays, we answer We answer questions.
01:15:01.000 We tell guys that they need to get in shape, etc.
01:15:03.000 So, unfortunately, right, and this is kind of one of the things, me being very open here about our podcast, our daytime shows don't get as much views and clips and virality because...
01:15:13.000 Oh, I see.
01:15:13.000 I see it.
01:15:14.000 You see what I'm saying?
01:15:15.000 Like, no one clips when I yell at men and tell them to stop being pussies.
01:15:18.000 No one clips when I tell them to, you know...
01:15:20.000 Honor your guys near you and have a good circle of men and be good to those men.
01:15:23.000 They never click that stuff because that's not exciting.
01:15:27.000 They want to see us dunk on random bimbos on after hours, and that's where people go viral.
01:15:32.000 But they never get to see the other side.
01:15:34.000 What we talk about, I've been very adamant about loyalty.
01:15:36.000 I mean, one of the biggest criticisms I get is people say, oh, you're loyal to a fault.
01:15:40.000 You support people all the time.
01:15:43.000 They gave me so much criticism for standing by Andrew when he was going through that bullshit with the thing.
01:15:48.000 But to me, it's second nature because that's just a masculine trait where if you're my friend, I don't give a fuck what anyone says about you.
01:15:54.000 I know that you're innocent and I'm going to defend you regardless of whether it's popular or not.
01:16:00.000 But obviously, these things that we talk about never get highlighted, unfortunately.
01:16:04.000 What gets highlighted is us dunking on bimbos and they assume that that's all we talk about.
01:16:08.000 But we do really focus on trying to get guys to self-improve and have these virtuous traits that you're talking about, not being a coward, sticking to your word.
01:16:16.000 Not being a backbiter, standing by your friends when they need you.
01:16:19.000 Because that is something that I agree with you that is lost in the West in general.
01:16:22.000 It's something that's lost in Gen Z, especially where for them, it's all about making content and going viral.
01:16:28.000 There's no honor almost in today's day and age.
01:16:32.000 So I agree with you on that.
01:16:33.000 It's just that unfortunately, that doesn't get pushed in the algorithm as much.
01:16:36.000 They always clip our other stuff.
01:16:37.000 Our more degenerative content gets clipped, which is unfortunate.
01:16:41.000 Yeah, that is the truth.
01:16:43.000 That is the truth.
01:16:44.000 I can see you.
01:16:44.000 I can see what you're saying.
01:16:47.000 Sorry, Fresh, you were trying to say something, right?
01:16:49.000 Nah.
01:16:51.000 I get it because he didn't understand what we do outside of the dating show.
01:16:54.000 Yeah, I mean, and I don't knock them.
01:16:55.000 We're coming from a secular standpoint, of course.
01:16:57.000 It's not going to be religious.
01:16:58.000 It's very secular, worldly.
01:17:00.000 So our point of view, our actual steps are going to be more like, I want to say...
01:17:04.000 And actually, funny point, people that are religious, I'll refer them to people that are more religious.
01:17:09.000 I've had Muslim guys ask me, like, hey, how do I go about this?
01:17:12.000 And I'm like, you know what, dude?
01:17:13.000 You're religious.
01:17:14.000 Go to someone like Muhammad Hijab.
01:17:16.000 He'll advise you on how to deal with dating in the modern-day marketplace based on your religion.
01:17:21.000 Because what I'm telling you is secular advice, and it's not going to align with what you're supposed to be doing.
01:17:26.000 Even Christians, they call into the show, amen.
01:17:29.000 Here's one piece of advice I'd give you, Myron.
01:17:30.000 And forgive me if this comes across as a bit too forthright, yeah?
01:17:35.000 Recently, I've seen some clips where some, you know, Islamophobic guests have been attacking the religion.
01:17:41.000 And you gave...
01:17:42.000 I know what your style is.
01:17:43.000 I understand it.
01:17:44.000 Your style is to let people speak.
01:17:45.000 You believe in a free speech and all this kind of thing.
01:17:47.000 I fully understand.
01:17:49.000 But there comes a time where, okay...
01:17:52.000 You need to exhibit some of those virtues that we're talking about in the sense that, okay, if they're talking about your religion, because you're a Muslim, right?
01:17:58.000 Yeah.
01:17:59.000 Like, fresh in the beginning, even though he did try his best, and I respect him for that.
01:18:03.000 He was, when I was speaking about, you know, the Bible and Christianity, he wanted to push back.
01:18:07.000 He did want to push back, and he, you know, was thinking, and he was really being, you know, inquisitive and so on.
01:18:15.000 I would want to see a bit more of that, brother.
01:18:17.000 You know what I'm trying to say?
01:18:18.000 If people are attacking Islam, because...
01:18:20.000 Let me tell you something.
01:18:21.000 We need to have as much an emotional investment in the principles that we hold to be true as we do with issues to do with gender and so on.
01:18:30.000 For example, I've seen you get mad a few times with some woman in your studio that was, I don't know, saying certain things and then she left and you got mad at her.
01:18:39.000 You got vexed.
01:18:41.000 Now, let me tell you something.
01:18:43.000 The companions of the Prophet, companions of the Prophet Muhammad, when things would be said about him, attacks, slurs, and so on, they would get vexed because they have an emotional attachment to religion.
01:18:56.000 And so...
01:18:57.000 Malcolm X famously said, the man that stands for nothing will fall for anything.
01:19:03.000 And so I feel like it's not a problem if you want to bring Tommy Robinson.
01:19:06.000 I've seen him on your show before or anybody else.
01:19:09.000 But I feel like there needs to be pushback when they come with nonsense about the religion.
01:19:14.000 And if not, like, okay, you might say, well, I don't have the knowledge for that.
01:19:18.000 But say, for example, Tommy Robinson, you can call him out and say, so how come you haven't debated...
01:19:23.000 Mohammed Hijab or somebody else who's also offered you that in the past and you haven't done it.
01:19:28.000 Why are you coming and speaking about it with me, for example?
01:19:31.000 But so long as there is some kind of a reaction that the Muslim audience can say, okay, this guy, he's one of us and yes, he has the same emotional investments as we do.
01:19:41.000 Just like Fresh, in the beginning, you can see he has an emotional investment to Christianity.
01:19:45.000 He even brought out the pendant.
01:19:47.000 Now, as we're talking, I don't know if you had it in.
01:19:49.000 Well, I had some verses here for you as well.
01:19:51.000 You should debate Sam Shuman as well.
01:19:53.000 That would be a good debate.
01:19:54.000 You know, I think so.
01:19:56.000 So, okay, I guess...
01:19:57.000 Yeah, I mean, I've debated David Wood in 2018.
01:20:00.000 It was one of the most monumental debates, I think, Christian-Muslim debates in the last century.
01:20:06.000 Potentially the most, you know?
01:20:08.000 And it's been watched like tens of millions of times across different languages.
01:20:13.000 So if someone wants to see a debate between me and a Christian, that's the most monumental one.
01:20:16.000 Me versus David.
01:20:17.000 I get Myron's standpoint as well, but I get what you're saying too.
01:20:20.000 But he just likes the guest speak because for our show, even you yourself, we let you talk the whole time because you're the guest, you know?
01:20:26.000 But...
01:20:26.000 Yeah, so I'll address that because obviously people gave me some criticism for that.
01:20:30.000 So I know you mentioned if you stand for nothing, you fall for anything.
01:20:35.000 For me, I stand for free speech.
01:20:36.000 That's the most important thing to me, right?
01:20:38.000 And one thing that I'm really big on is even if I disagree with you, I will divorce my emotions from what you say to let you say your piece because I think it's very important that people are able to say what they want to say uninterrupted and sometimes without pushback.
01:20:53.000 Now, and I'll explain what I mean by not giving pushback sometimes.
01:20:57.000 On that show, because people tend to forget context, right?
01:21:00.000 One of the girls on the panel asked Laura, Hey, you're banned all over social media.
01:21:05.000 Why?
01:21:06.000 Then she went into her views on Islam, why she was banned, etc.
01:21:10.000 Though I don't agree with it, and I also don't agree with a bunch of her opinions on foreign policy, especially with Israel, etc.
01:21:18.000 I respect the fact that she's a guest, she's answering a question from another member on the panel, and though I don't agree with her, I'm going to let her answer that question.
01:21:27.000 And to go ahead and try to have a debate with her about Islam and religion and everything else like that in the middle of a podcast where we have nine other women at the table and we have 30,000 people watching, it would be counterproductive to the show.
01:21:38.000 Yeah, but do you employ the same exact attitude when it comes to people that are opposing you on your gender issue discussions?
01:21:47.000 Like, for example, like I said, there are clips of you when you're speaking to those, I don't know what they are, prostitutes, escorts, what they are.
01:21:53.000 Sorry to say, no disrespect to them, because now sex work has become a thing.
01:21:57.000 So, are they sex workers?
01:21:59.000 Those guests that you have.
01:22:01.000 But basically, one of those episodes, you got mad.
01:22:05.000 We saw you getting mad because she was saying things that were triggering you.
01:22:08.000 And my point is that, look, it's not a problem, even if you do have a guest.
01:22:12.000 Which one was I getting mad at?
01:22:13.000 Keep in mind, that's hours of content.
01:22:15.000 I can't remember.
01:22:16.000 But you got mad at one and you kicked her out, right?
01:22:18.000 You kicked somebody out.
01:22:19.000 It's built up, though.
01:22:20.000 It's not just like randomly.
01:22:21.000 Yeah, so normally when I kick a girl out, again, this is the negative side of clips.
01:22:25.000 When you see me tell a girl, get the fuck up outta here, That's typically after two hours of hurting the part of the show, being annoying, over-speaking, interrupting the other guests on the show.
01:22:36.000 I really try to exercise a lot of patience when women are misbehaving on the podcast and being difficult, right?
01:22:43.000 And when you see me blow up and tell them, get the hell out of here, that's typically been the culmination of multiple hours of them being annoying.
01:22:48.000 And the audience knows that's watching, but unfortunately it gets clipped and they make it look like, oh, this guy just kicked her out and went crazy because she disagreed with him.
01:22:54.000 And I even say it before I do the show, I will never kick you off for disagreeing with me.
01:22:58.000 I will only kick you off.
01:23:00.000 If someone came on your show and started talking about...
01:23:03.000 Have you got kids?
01:23:04.000 No.
01:23:06.000 If someone started talking about your mum, yeah?
01:23:09.000 And then, like, sorry to say, went hard with your mum.
01:23:12.000 So your mum is this and this and this.
01:23:14.000 I'm not even going to mention anything, yeah?
01:23:15.000 But if they started doing that and they're a guest on the show, how would you react?
01:23:19.000 Would you let them say whatever they want?
01:23:21.000 Well, I mean, that's, I don't think that, uh, I don't know if that's the, that analogy kind of aligns with what we're talking about.
01:23:29.000 It's the free speech thing.
01:23:29.000 So like, in a sense, you could argue, well, this is a free speech situation, you know, let them say whatever you want.
01:23:35.000 If they know her personally, or let's say she's a public figure, let's say she's a public figure or they know her personally and they start attacking her.
01:23:42.000 Yeah.
01:23:43.000 Would, would you accept that or would you challenge that?
01:23:45.000 People do it all the time.
01:23:46.000 They say, oh, your mom doesn't, you know, who raised you, your mom.
01:23:50.000 People have made insults about my mom all the time.
01:23:52.000 I just, it is what it is.
01:23:53.000 I think the protection of free speech overrides my personal feelings towards that individual.
01:24:00.000 So you would have that, you'd do that if someone was like, because here's the thing.
01:24:04.000 We have, this goes back to virtue then, because free speech means you can also speak.
01:24:11.000 Of course.
01:24:11.000 That's what it means.
01:24:12.000 Of course.
01:24:12.000 So there's no contradiction in free speech if someone says something that you disagree with, that you challenge them, or that you defer them.
01:24:19.000 Do you get what I'm trying to say?
01:24:20.000 And by the way, just on that point, free speech is not a holy cow.
01:24:25.000 Like, free speech is not God.
01:24:27.000 Do you get what I'm trying to say?
01:24:28.000 Because now people speak about free speech.
01:24:29.000 I understand that.
01:24:30.000 But Muhammad, you missed the point.
01:24:32.000 When she gave that answer, that was in response to another girl on the panel.
01:24:38.000 So, why am I going to push back when she's saying why she got banned?
01:24:42.000 Does that make sense?
01:24:43.000 Like, she said, oh, I got banned.
01:24:44.000 I didn't watch that, to be honest.
01:24:45.000 I didn't watch that.
01:24:46.000 And that's the problem, because people just see the clips and they don't see the context.
01:24:49.000 They think, oh, you just stood there when she talked about Islam.
01:24:52.000 She was simply answering a question.
01:24:54.000 She was just answering a question from one of the panelists.
01:24:56.000 That's how that clip even came about, but no one ever puts the context in there.
01:25:00.000 Mm-hmm.
01:25:01.000 Do you understand where I'm coming from?
01:25:02.000 That, okay, free speech doesn't mean, doesn't preclude that you can also respond in kind with aggression and emotion.
01:25:09.000 Like, for example, like I said before, if your parents, either or both of them were public figures, and they were being attacked or besmirched online, yeah, then you can respond to that.
01:25:19.000 If you are being besmirched, if someone comes and says to you, listen, you're a scumbag, this, this, that, whatever, and defaming you and whatever, and you respond in kind, I'm sure you've probably done your fair share of refutations and repudiations in the past.
01:25:30.000 So what I'm trying to say is that we as Muslims, in terms of how we consider our holy prophet, we have red lines.
01:25:40.000 Obviously, Andrew Tate has spoken about this at length when he said that when he came into Islam, one of the things that attracted him to Islam was the boundaries.
01:25:48.000 Well, the red lines that Islam put.
01:25:50.000 So for us as Muslims, there's wars that have started in Islamic history as a result of things that were said and done, which were deemed to be disrespectful.
01:26:01.000 Okay.
01:26:02.000 So these are every man.
01:26:04.000 One of the things that you'd put as like the virtues is that every man has to have consequences in it.
01:26:09.000 And if they think it's okay to come speak to someone like Myron Gaines, who has clout and he has status in the community, who's part of the men's activism movement, And go for his religion effectively in front of him and that he's not really going to care about or something like that.
01:26:25.000 That actually deprecates your character in a certain way.
01:26:28.000 Because then if they speak about your religion today, tomorrow they're going to speak about your mum.
01:26:31.000 And after tomorrow they're going to speak about your dua.
01:26:33.000 Do you get it?
01:26:34.000 I disagree.
01:26:35.000 Because again, context is important.
01:26:37.000 I disagree.
01:26:38.000 I strongly disagree with that.
01:26:40.000 I feel like there is something to be done in this regard, but it's up to you.
01:26:45.000 Obviously, this is your platform and your thing, but this is just my two cents on this issue.
01:26:49.000 Well, again, I understand your two cents, but again, context matters.
01:26:53.000 If someone asks her a question and she responds as to why she was banned on social media, Then what is there to debate?
01:27:01.000 Like she's saying, these are my views.
01:27:02.000 This is what got me banned.
01:27:03.000 Okay.
01:27:04.000 And then we just move on because, again, that episode was not designed to have a religious debate and go back and forth.
01:27:09.000 Me and Laura have already talked, you know, offline of our differences of opinion when it comes to American foreign policy, Islam, etc.
01:27:17.000 And I tell her, I don't agree with you.
01:27:18.000 But I'm not going to hurt.
01:27:20.000 I don't want to flog it at all.
01:27:20.000 I think we both understand each other's perspectives now.
01:27:22.000 I don't want to flog it at all.
01:27:24.000 Like I said before, so long as you understand where I'm coming from.
01:27:27.000 No, I completely understand.
01:27:28.000 And if she made comments like that, and we were having a different type of show, and there weren't nine other girls on the panel, and one of them didn't ask her personally for her opinion, because that's what she asked was, tell me why you got kicked off, and she gave her a reason why.
01:27:44.000 I can't really argue with her about why she got kicked off.
01:27:47.000 That's not...
01:27:48.000 Does that make sense?
01:27:49.000 I totally understand what you're saying.
01:27:53.000 But someone can do that in an underhanded manner.
01:27:55.000 For example, the same analogy can be applied back to the whole mother thing.
01:27:59.000 Someone can say, well, the reason this is because you're mother.
01:28:01.000 But once again, if someone brings it up, it's a disrespect, effectively, bro.
01:28:07.000 So anything that could be considered to be a disrespect.
01:28:11.000 Famously, Khabib, when he was with Connor, And Conor tried to underhandedly disrespect Khabib by putting drink on his table and stuff like that.
01:28:20.000 He responded in kind.
01:28:22.000 He wasn't having it.
01:28:23.000 And then after when Conor said, you know, it was all business, he didn't accept that.
01:28:28.000 Because there's a degree of seriousness that you need to exhibit on issues that are serious.
01:28:34.000 Do you know what I'm trying to say?
01:28:36.000 Because otherwise you'd be seen as capricious and frivolous as an individual.
01:28:39.000 We don't want to be seen...
01:28:41.000 Yeah, we could all have fun.
01:28:42.000 I'm a joker as well.
01:28:43.000 I like to have fun and joke and have a good time.
01:28:47.000 Do you get what I'm trying to say?
01:28:48.000 But there's a time to have fun and there's a time to get serious.
01:28:51.000 And so I just feel like when it comes to religion and family, faith and family in particular, these two things are always going to be red lines for any man and should be always red lines for any man.
01:29:01.000 That's why even the Quran instructs us not to attack religions of other people and mock them.
01:29:06.000 Yeah, we can disagree.
01:29:07.000 We can talk about the corruption, the Bible, and someone can say, well, the Quran is corrupted, and, you know, someone can say this.
01:29:13.000 But to mock another religion now.
01:29:15.000 So if I were to come and Fresh is a very polite guy, if I try to attack him and say, you know, this and that, and try to mock him, that would be something that Islam doesn't allow.
01:29:23.000 And otherwise, shouldn't be allowed in the sense that a man shouldn't allow for another man.
01:29:30.000 Now, obviously, I'm not saying anything about laws.
01:29:32.000 I'm not making a political argument here.
01:29:33.000 I'm not saying, oh, therefore, we should ban this or we should ban that.
01:29:36.000 I'm just making the point that a man has to have his boundaries.
01:29:41.000 Can I just say one thing?
01:29:42.000 Oh, go ahead.
01:29:43.000 I understand what you're saying.
01:29:44.000 That's your opinion about the show and Myron's take.
01:29:47.000 But I would say this about the show.
01:29:49.000 Our guests, we respect totally.
01:29:52.000 So whatever they say, as a guest, for example, you talk for a long time.
01:29:55.000 I mean, listen, I want to chime in as well.
01:29:57.000 But you know what?
01:29:57.000 You're the guest while you speak.
01:29:59.000 The point is, with the show, me and Myron, whatever guest comes on the show, their opinions, their actual, I want to say, mindset, for example, their ideologies is on them.
01:30:08.000 They talk.
01:30:08.000 People know our opinion, our stance on things.
01:30:10.000 And look, people know he's Muslim and he does his thing.
01:30:12.000 It's more like, you know what, she's a guest, she can talk.
01:30:14.000 Pretty much.
01:30:15.000 Yeah, especially in response to someone's question, because the Islamic community tried to come at me for that, and I was like, okay, well, they don't know the context that she was answering a question, and that's why it is.
01:30:25.000 But, you know, it is what it is.
01:30:27.000 But also, it might be that you didn't know that this is how you should react.
01:30:31.000 Because actually, Islamically speaking, you've got to respond to that.
01:30:35.000 Like, there's an ayah in the Quran that says, وَإِذَا رَأَيَاتِ اللَّهِ يُكْفَرُوا بِهَا وَيُسْتَحْزَأُ بِهَا فَلَا تَقَعَضُوا مَعْهُمْ حَتَّى يَخُضُوا فِي حَدِيثٍ غَيْرِهِ You know, there's a verse that said, if people attack the religion and the ayat and the verses of God and you see them mocking it,
01:30:53.000 don't sit with them.
01:30:55.000 People who basically say that, you don't sit with them until they speak about something else.
01:31:00.000 Otherwise you'll be just like them.
01:31:01.000 No.
01:31:02.000 And that's where me and you disagree.
01:31:04.000 Because I'm okay with platforming people that disagree with me.
01:31:06.000 I'm okay with platforming someone like yourself who's a developed Muslim.
01:31:09.000 I'm okay with platforming someone that you disagree with, like a Zionist.
01:31:13.000 I platform people even if I don't agree with their takes.
01:31:17.000 And I understand from a religious perspective that can be seen as haram.
01:31:20.000 But I'm not a religious guy.
01:31:21.000 And my thing is, I think it's very important To be able to platform and bring people on with differing views, right?
01:31:28.000 No, no, I'm not against you platforming them.
01:31:31.000 I'm just saying the response to how you platform them.
01:31:33.000 Like, you can platform them, but respond to certain things they say about Islam, religion, prophets, you know.
01:31:40.000 If someone attacked Jesus, like, someone came on and attacked Jesus Christ, the same thing can be said.
01:31:45.000 I would say that that shouldn't be acceptable.
01:31:46.000 Do you get it?
01:31:48.000 Now, they can do it, but I would respond to them.
01:31:50.000 That's what I'm saying.
01:31:51.000 All I'm saying is I would respond to them.
01:31:52.000 If someone came and said, Jesus is this and Jesus is that, I would get vexed on that basis.
01:31:57.000 I would have to respond on that basis.
01:31:59.000 Do you get what I'm saying?
01:32:00.000 So, yeah.
01:32:02.000 I'm not saying they don't platform them.
01:32:03.000 You can platform you like.
01:32:05.000 Alright, so, I'll wait for the debate between you and Sam Schumann.
01:32:08.000 When's it happening?
01:32:11.000 I don't know.
01:32:11.000 I never thought a man with that kind of level was someone that should be on my radar because I don't know how many even how subscribers he's got is unqualified, untrained.
01:32:21.000 I beat his best friend who is much more qualified and trained than him.
01:32:24.000 So I don't know.
01:32:25.000 You just mentioned his name to me.
01:32:27.000 No one really proposed.
01:32:29.000 I don't even think he called me.
01:32:30.000 I don't even know.
01:32:32.000 Okay.
01:32:33.000 I was looking to debate Tommy Robinson, you know, because you had him on your show.
01:32:37.000 You said you're going to set that up.
01:32:39.000 Yeah, I was talking with him a few weeks ago, and he said he'll do it.
01:32:44.000 It's only fair that someone, you know, like myself, should debate someone like Ben Shapiro, bro.
01:32:51.000 Because how many years have I been in the game?
01:32:53.000 How many millions of views have I amassed?
01:32:55.000 Do you know what I'm trying to say?
01:32:56.000 So why do I need to get some...
01:32:57.000 Yeah, I can...
01:32:58.000 I go to the streets and talk to people like, you know, Shamone or whoever it may be.
01:33:03.000 Do you know what I'm like?
01:33:04.000 Unholy Schmoly and these guys.
01:33:05.000 I haven't got a problem.
01:33:06.000 I've never actually turned down a debate.
01:33:08.000 I'm actually in a park.
01:33:09.000 I've been in a park 300 times debating anyone who wants to debate me.
01:33:12.000 I go in the streets of London, bare-chested.
01:33:16.000 I come out and say, anybody who wants to talk to me can talk to me, bro.
01:33:20.000 And it's called Speaker's Corner.
01:33:22.000 I come out and say, anyone who wants to chat to me, anyone who wants to debate me, I've been there 300 times online.
01:33:27.000 There's videos of it.
01:33:28.000 I've never denied a fight and I've never denied a debate.
01:33:31.000 Tommy Robinson denied both.
01:33:33.000 Tommy Robinson, because he's not my size, I said, bring any heavyweight in the world.
01:33:38.000 I'll fight him.
01:33:39.000 MMA rules.
01:33:40.000 So long as you fight a man that's your way.
01:33:43.000 And then we have a debate afterwards.
01:33:45.000 So that it can be a conversational and it can be a physical altercation.
01:33:50.000 We disagree.
01:33:51.000 You want to put hands on me?
01:33:53.000 I want to put hands on you in a physical and legal manner.
01:33:55.000 So let's put hands on each other.
01:33:57.000 If it's dishonorable that a man of my size and my height, 6'7", 275 pounds, Yeah?
01:34:06.000 Someone of my size.
01:34:08.000 If it's dishonorable that I'm going to put my hand on a small guy, then I'll fight anybody.
01:34:13.000 I opened it up for him.
01:34:14.000 I said, anybody in dunya, bro, in the world, come.
01:34:18.000 And then we'll get you an opponent.
01:34:21.000 He wasn't interested in that.
01:34:22.000 So, when people propose new names for me like this Shimon and this Shmoli and this and that, I've never said no to anybody, bro.
01:34:30.000 I say yes too much.
01:34:32.000 Just like some of those prostitutes that you have on your show.
01:34:35.000 I always say yes.
01:34:38.000 We do bring a multitude of girls from different, obviously the OnlyFans girls are the ones that go viral, but we've had doctors on the show, we've had lawyers on the show, we've had law enforcement on the show, we've had women that are professional, we've brought religious women on.
01:34:50.000 Are they prostitutes?
01:34:51.000 Do you go to the directory of prostitutes and just go and call them up and say, listen, we'll give you this much money instead of doing a sexual act, come on TV? No, never, never.
01:35:02.000 You know, that's not a misconception.
01:35:03.000 How do you get these?
01:35:04.000 If you don't mind me asking.
01:35:06.000 I mean, I have a team that does it.
01:35:07.000 So they go ahead and source us from different places, whether it's a college campus or out and about or whatever.
01:35:11.000 That's how we've been able to get a diverse panel of women on.
01:35:14.000 But also, they're not all sex workers.
01:35:16.000 They're not all, yeah.
01:35:17.000 Some have degrees, some have real jobs, some are mothers.
01:35:20.000 We got a doctor on last week.
01:35:21.000 Yeah.
01:35:21.000 We literally had a specialist on last week that's a doctor that does...
01:35:24.000 They're not all sex workers.
01:35:25.000 Yeah.
01:35:26.000 That does surgery.
01:35:26.000 To be fair.
01:35:27.000 But that's a common misconception is that we only bring OnlyFans girls on.
01:35:29.000 But we actually do bring a multitude of different girls.
01:35:32.000 OnlyFans.
01:35:32.000 Okay.
01:35:33.000 So are there OnlyFans?
01:35:35.000 There have been girls, absolutely, that do OnlyFans, right?
01:35:38.000 But we've also had a bunch of women that work professional jobs.
01:35:41.000 Every panel that we have, there's a few women on the panel most of the time that do some type of professional work or educate or whatever, because we try to have it where we have women from different walks of life on the podcast.
01:35:52.000 I think that's very important to bring different perspectives.
01:35:54.000 But a majority are not OnlyFans.
01:35:56.000 We actually got the data on it.
01:35:57.000 What's the percentage?
01:35:59.000 I'll pull it up on the side here.
01:36:01.000 Out of 2800, ages from 18 to 49, 46 different US states, 325 different job titles.
01:36:13.000 And OnlyFans is one of them.
01:36:14.000 So we've brought on a bunch.
01:36:16.000 But I get it.
01:36:17.000 And that's kind of what it is with our podcast.
01:36:19.000 People look at the clips and they kind of run with the narrative a lot of times.
01:36:22.000 Which I'm not blaming you.
01:36:23.000 I mean, obviously, it's a lot of content.
01:36:24.000 You're not going to go through every two to three hour podcast two times a day.
01:36:28.000 It's a lot.
01:36:29.000 And I understand that time is...
01:36:31.000 No, no.
01:36:31.000 I understand where you're coming from.
01:36:33.000 I understand where you're coming from.
01:36:34.000 But there was something I was going to say.
01:36:36.000 It's a very important point to clear up.
01:36:37.000 Because I think most people just think they're prostitutes, frankly.
01:36:41.000 Maybe we should do Dawah to them.
01:36:43.000 Maybe we should actually speak to the prostitutes.
01:36:45.000 The loudest ones are the ones that you see on the clips.
01:36:49.000 What goes viral is the loudest, craziest girls.
01:36:52.000 The girls that are quiet that aren't like that.
01:36:54.000 They don't get a lot of airtime.
01:36:55.000 No one hears them talk because they don't talk.
01:36:58.000 They're listening.
01:36:59.000 They're listening.
01:36:59.000 Processing it.
01:37:00.000 And then after the show, they'll be like, oh, we agree with you.
01:37:02.000 But they don't want to say it on the show because, like I said, women tend to be more scared of being exiled than men, right?
01:37:08.000 For us, being a coward is a problem.
01:37:10.000 For them, being a coward is not a big deal.
01:37:11.000 It's actually in their survival makeup.
01:37:13.000 So they won't speak up during the show.
01:37:15.000 But unfortunately, those girls never get light.
01:37:17.000 The crazy ones do that are the sex workers or whatever.
01:37:22.000 We were talking about something I was going to mention before this.
01:37:26.000 What topic were we on just right before?
01:37:28.000 Oh, his story, him getting...
01:37:31.000 No, no, no, no.
01:37:31.000 Just literally just now before the...
01:37:33.000 Religion?
01:37:34.000 No.
01:37:34.000 Damn it, man.
01:37:36.000 Okay, that's fine.
01:37:37.000 Should we read chats?
01:37:39.000 I think we got TK in the house too.
01:37:40.000 Yeah, we do.
01:37:40.000 So we'll wrap up here in a little bit.
01:37:42.000 I'll read these chats real fast.
01:37:44.000 We got what?
01:37:45.000 We got 13?
01:37:46.000 No, 14K, y'all in here, man?
01:37:48.000 I'll tell you guys.
01:37:49.000 Between Rumble and YouTube.
01:37:51.000 We have...
01:37:52.000 Okay.
01:37:54.000 Wiping goes...
01:37:55.000 No!
01:37:56.000 What the hell?
01:37:57.000 No, no.
01:37:58.000 What the fuck, man?
01:37:59.000 No, not today.
01:38:00.000 Okay, so he says, the Trinity isn't a contradiction.
01:38:04.000 Godhead has three distinct persons.
01:38:06.000 Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
01:38:07.000 Godhead is a being.
01:38:09.000 A person and beings are distinct.
01:38:10.000 Completely logical.
01:38:12.000 Other.
01:38:12.000 Clown trying to use logic to explain the nature of supernatural being.
01:38:16.000 SMH. Yeah, so this distinction between person and essence, yeah?
01:38:23.000 Who made this distinction and why?
01:38:27.000 So, for example, is this distinction found in the Bible?
01:38:30.000 You won't find this distinction is made in the Bible.
01:38:32.000 This distinction is made by church fathers who tried to reconcile the idea of the Trinity.
01:38:38.000 People like Augustine, for example.
01:38:40.000 Augustine, who's a 5th century, 4th, 5th century writer.
01:38:46.000 He made these kinds of decisions.
01:38:48.000 He had a whole book called De Trinitatis, like multiple volumes.
01:38:53.000 And they all recognized the problem.
01:38:55.000 They all recognized the problem with the Father being God, the Son being God, and the Holy Spirit being God.
01:39:01.000 So to try and solve the contradiction, they said, yeah, but it's one essence, but three different persons.
01:39:06.000 There's a difference between Uzziah and Persona.
01:39:08.000 That's what they said.
01:39:09.000 But the first question, therefore, is...
01:39:12.000 Is this a biblical distinction?
01:39:14.000 No, it's not a biblical distinction.
01:39:16.000 These kind of philosophical distinctions are not there.
01:39:18.000 Number two, it doesn't even solve the problem.
01:39:20.000 Because you've got three unique, distinct centers of consciousness.
01:39:26.000 So if the Father has a center of consciousness, the Son has a center of consciousness, the Holy Spirit has a center of consciousness, that's three distinct entities that we're talking about.
01:39:33.000 And each of them individually are God.
01:39:36.000 So the Father is God.
01:39:37.000 The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God.
01:39:40.000 Yet, despite me holding three fingers up to this camera right now, you want me to believe that this is one.
01:39:48.000 I'm saying that if this is one, then I'm losing my mind.
01:39:53.000 Then I'm no longer operating on that logical paradigm.
01:39:58.000 Either that, or what you're saying is illogical.
01:40:01.000 And I go with the latter.
01:40:02.000 Okay.
01:40:02.000 But again, like I said earlier, because as a man...
01:40:07.000 Logic isn't everything, right?
01:40:09.000 To God.
01:40:10.000 Because God is God.
01:40:11.000 That sounds like something a bimbo would say, though.
01:40:13.000 No, no, no.
01:40:13.000 That's something like a bimbo, like an emotional bimbo, like logic isn't everything.
01:40:16.000 You speak to her, you give her facts, and she'll just say, like, you know, logic ain't anything.
01:40:19.000 But you're putting on God restraints.
01:40:23.000 You can't do that.
01:40:24.000 I'm just saying that argument right there.
01:40:27.000 Yeah.
01:40:28.000 Well, I'm saying this, I'm not putting on God restraints.
01:40:30.000 I think that if you're saying God is limited, that will be putting God on God restraints.
01:40:34.000 If you're saying God is a man, there's no clearer way of putting restraints on God, but to call him a restrained being.
01:40:41.000 I mean, who is the one who's putting restraints on God?
01:40:44.000 The one who's saying he's unrestrained, unrestricted, unlimited, or the one who's saying, in fact, he is a man who is God?
01:40:52.000 Which means his restraint is limited.
01:40:54.000 Come on.
01:40:55.000 We all know the answer to this question.
01:40:57.000 So what I'm saying is, if you want to do away with logic, then you can't have a conversation with anyone about anything.
01:41:03.000 You should close down Fresh and Fit and say that we have decided to close down Fresh and Fit because we have decided there's no such thing as logical truths.
01:41:13.000 And so when the woman comes on, the bimbo comes on, and the talk, what's that thing called?
01:41:18.000 That thing, that sex thing.
01:41:21.000 OnlyFans.
01:41:22.000 That sexting OnlyFans.
01:41:23.000 I don't know much about this.
01:41:25.000 It's not false piety.
01:41:26.000 I actually don't know about it.
01:41:26.000 I've never been on it.
01:41:27.000 Okay.
01:41:28.000 And so the OnlyFans woman comes on and she starts talking about her emotional arguments, which are in contradiction to logic.
01:41:34.000 You can just accept her arguments because the truth is relative in that sense.
01:41:40.000 Because her truth is different.
01:41:41.000 My truth is different.
01:41:42.000 Two plus two could be different here, in a different world.
01:41:45.000 It could be different there.
01:41:46.000 It could be anything different.
01:41:47.000 So when a transgender comes or a woke person comes, you can just say, well, the truth is relative.
01:41:51.000 Anything is fine.
01:41:52.000 See, you're a very good debater, bro, but you lack our context.
01:41:56.000 The problem I'm trying to raise you here is that, like, ultimately, I'm saying, man-to-man, logic applies.
01:42:02.000 But with God, it doesn't apply.
01:42:03.000 So you're putting logic onto God.
01:42:05.000 It's like, what are you doing?
01:42:06.000 Yeah, well, we've heard this argument before, bro.
01:42:08.000 As I said to you before, logic is an expression that has come from God.
01:42:13.000 It's not something that is impinging on his will.
01:42:15.000 For man, not for him.
01:42:17.000 You know what I'm saying?
01:42:19.000 No, no.
01:42:20.000 What we're saying is that logic is something that God has enforced upon everyone.
01:42:25.000 Do you get me?
01:42:26.000 For humankind, yes.
01:42:28.000 Yeah, that's it.
01:42:29.000 But not for himself.
01:42:29.000 So we have to operate on logic, otherwise there's no going forward in any discussion.
01:42:33.000 Again, context.
01:42:33.000 There's no way.
01:42:34.000 You're not hearing what I'm saying.
01:42:35.000 I'm just saying context here doesn't play to God.
01:42:37.000 But okay, it's fine.
01:42:38.000 Let's move on.
01:42:39.000 So can God not exist?
01:42:44.000 He's God.
01:42:44.000 He can do whatever he wants to.
01:42:46.000 Okay, so atheism could be true in certain cases then, yeah?
01:42:49.000 No.
01:42:50.000 Is that what you're saying?
01:42:50.000 What I'm saying is, is that you're telling me that because...
01:42:54.000 If God can be a man, so surely God cannot exist, can decide to take himself out of existence.
01:42:59.000 God created man, right?
01:43:00.000 So I'm assuming, maybe using logic here, that if you create a man, he can create a man in his image, right?
01:43:07.000 For himself.
01:43:07.000 Okay, can God decide not to be a God?
01:43:12.000 Do you know?
01:43:15.000 I didn't hear that.
01:43:16.000 I didn't hear your answer.
01:43:17.000 No, I'm asking you.
01:43:18.000 Can God decide not to be a god?
01:43:20.000 No, I'm asking you.
01:43:21.000 Can God take himself out of existence?
01:43:23.000 That question in itself makes no sense.
01:43:29.000 Brother, come on, man.
01:43:30.000 So you're telling me that question makes no sense.
01:43:33.000 But the question that you've been asking, which is the same thing.
01:43:36.000 So God can be a man because logic doesn't apply to God, but God can't take himself out of existence.
01:43:41.000 You see what I did there?
01:43:42.000 Because that question doesn't make sense.
01:43:44.000 No, obviously it's satire.
01:43:45.000 But what I'm telling you is that God can do whatever he wants to do.
01:43:48.000 Bro, if he's allowed to be a man, then he should be able to take himself out of existence, which you've agreed that he can.
01:43:53.000 So then in that case, atheism could be true then.
01:43:55.000 Like I said, he can do whatever he wants to do.
01:43:57.000 He's God.
01:43:57.000 I can't question his judgment.
01:43:59.000 I can't question what he does.
01:44:00.000 He made us in his image, but he's God through and through.
01:44:03.000 He's almighty.
01:44:04.000 Can God create a rock so heavy that he can't lift?
01:44:07.000 See, this argument, again, again, again.
01:44:10.000 You're trying to put me in this corner, but God is limitless, bro.
01:44:13.000 I'm not going to question him.
01:44:14.000 So sure, if God is limitless, he can't be a man.
01:44:16.000 So hold on.
01:44:17.000 Is Jesus a liar?
01:44:19.000 Jesus never claimed to be God.
01:44:20.000 Where did he claim to be God?
01:44:21.000 Where did Jesus say, I am God?
01:44:23.000 So, why do all the disciples talk about him being the son of God?
01:44:27.000 Are they liars?
01:44:28.000 Son of God.
01:44:29.000 Son of God is different to God, by the way.
01:44:32.000 Okay, but we're talking about, for example, God himself, right?
01:44:35.000 Say again?
01:44:36.000 Okay, so, I'm just saying, everyone is pointing towards him being, right?
01:44:43.000 The son of God.
01:44:45.000 What does son of God mean?
01:44:47.000 What does it mean?
01:44:48.000 Son of God, God himself.
01:44:50.000 Son of God, God himself.
01:44:52.000 So wait a minute.
01:44:53.000 When in the Bible it's mentioned, when it's mentioned in Matthews, that blessed be the peacemakers for they shall be called the sons of God.
01:45:02.000 So any peacemakers are son of God.
01:45:06.000 Is that a ceremonial title or is that a biological title?
01:45:10.000 Okay.
01:45:32.000 But in likeness, he was God.
01:45:35.000 Philippians is not Jesus himself speaking.
01:45:37.000 That's a book of, by the way, Paul, yeah?
01:45:39.000 I agree.
01:45:39.000 So that's Paul.
01:45:40.000 Paul, by the way, never met Jesus, just to let you know.
01:45:43.000 He never met him.
01:45:44.000 So you're giving me the works of a man who never met Jesus Christ.
01:45:50.000 I'm asking you where did Jesus himself say that stuff?
01:45:52.000 Did Paul meet Muhammad?
01:45:55.000 Pardon?
01:45:55.000 Did Paul meet Muhammad?
01:45:58.000 No, he didn't.
01:45:59.000 What's that got to do with what we're talking about, though?
01:46:00.000 But again, I'm just telling you that just because I never met a person doesn't mean I don't know about them from other disciples.
01:46:09.000 Say that again.
01:46:10.000 He's not a disciple.
01:46:11.000 Paul is not a disciple.
01:46:13.000 He wasn't alive when Jesus was alive.
01:46:15.000 I'm saying all the accounts of everybody that talk about Jesus Christ, when he was alive, speak about him being that person.
01:46:22.000 Being what?
01:46:23.000 The Son of God.
01:46:25.000 Okay, so what do you mean by the Son of God?
01:46:27.000 What do you mean by it?
01:46:28.000 Like, God himself on earth.
01:46:31.000 Okay, that's not what the Son of God means in any ordinary language or any terminological language.
01:46:36.000 The Son of God means that it can either mean adoption or it can mean biological son, begotten son.
01:46:43.000 So I'm asking you, what do you mean by the Son of God?
01:46:47.000 Well, in terms of this example right here, like, obviously we could be sons of God too, but the actual title for Jesus Christ is King, Christ the Lord.
01:46:58.000 So that would be his full title.
01:46:59.000 He was never king on the earth, by the way.
01:47:02.000 According to your narrative, according to the New Testament, he was whipped by the kings and killed by the kings.
01:47:06.000 He's coming back.
01:47:07.000 He was killed by the kings.
01:47:08.000 But he'll be back.
01:47:11.000 He was killed by the kings, according to your narrative.
01:47:13.000 He was never a ruler of any polity.
01:47:15.000 He's coming back.
01:47:17.000 So why should he be called king, even by your standard?
01:47:20.000 I didn't say it.
01:47:21.000 He was never king.
01:47:21.000 No one called him king.
01:47:22.000 It's in the Bible.
01:47:23.000 I didn't say it.
01:47:24.000 No, but no one called him king from a political perspective.
01:47:26.000 He wasn't a king.
01:47:27.000 He wasn't a sovereign of a nation.
01:47:28.000 Well, in their eyes, definitely not.
01:47:30.000 But he is.
01:47:31.000 Sure.
01:47:31.000 So what does it mean to be king?
01:47:33.000 What does it mean?
01:47:35.000 I'm trying to make the argument here that you're putting...
01:47:38.000 How could he be crucified?
01:47:40.000 Sorry?
01:47:40.000 How can a king say, Eli, Eli, I'm lama sabachthani, God, God, why have you forsaken me?
01:47:44.000 Because he died for our sins.
01:47:45.000 I understand what you're saying, but how can a king, okay, who's a sovereign, be put in a position like that?
01:47:52.000 Asking God to help him?
01:47:54.000 Well, again, I'm not trying to dictate how God moves.
01:47:59.000 I'm just telling you, and especially history itself, what happened, and him saying to people, listen, you know what?
01:48:05.000 My father put me in this position to save you guys.
01:48:09.000 It's what it is.
01:48:09.000 I'm not arguing that.
01:48:10.000 I'm just saying, like, you're saying that God has limitations and he doesn't have any limits at all.
01:48:15.000 That's what I'm saying.
01:48:17.000 He learned himself to become...
01:48:19.000 Yeah, I'm making the argument that God doesn't have any limits and that if God were to become a man or to not exist, that that would put a limitation on God.
01:48:27.000 Do you get it?
01:48:28.000 If God ceased to exist, that is the ultimate limitation, but there is no God then.
01:48:33.000 If you've accepted that God cannot exist, then atheism can be possible in certain contexts.
01:48:42.000 So, what we're talking about here, bro?
01:48:44.000 So hypothetically...
01:48:44.000 What you're telling me...
01:48:45.000 A rock existing...
01:48:47.000 Okay, what is right now?
01:48:50.000 Which is, basically, he died...
01:48:52.000 Pardon?
01:48:53.000 He died for his sins.
01:48:54.000 That's history, correct?
01:48:56.000 That's not history.
01:48:57.000 That's your history.
01:48:57.000 That's a 2,000-year-old history, which is contradictory.
01:49:00.000 Where's his body, then?
01:49:00.000 Pardon?
01:49:01.000 Where's his body, then?
01:49:03.000 Where's his body?
01:49:04.000 Yeah.
01:49:05.000 Oh wait, hold on, hold on.
01:49:06.000 Do you think that everybody that lived on the earth 2,000 years ago, we have their bodies and we can identify them?
01:49:12.000 No, but someone of that stature and that prominence, for example...
01:49:16.000 Yeah, that's not an argument.
01:49:17.000 That's called an argument from silence.
01:49:19.000 That's called an argument from silence.
01:49:21.000 So it's not where's his body.
01:49:22.000 That's not...
01:49:22.000 We both live in an ascension.
01:49:24.000 The Muslims believe in Jesus was ascended.
01:49:26.000 And also in the Bible, it's mentioned that Jesus was ascended.
01:49:29.000 That's why we both believe he's alive now, actually.
01:49:31.000 So we don't believe that he was dead.
01:49:34.000 That's the first thing.
01:49:34.000 The second thing is, in terms of the crucifixion and resurrection, we're talking about an alleged history, which is, by the way, contradicted.
01:49:44.000 Because you have early accounts, for example, in the Talmud, which is a Jewish book, saying that Jesus wasn't crucified, but instead he was stoned.
01:49:55.000 What you call the Babylonian Talmud is mentioned that he was stoned.
01:49:59.000 Other early accounts of the Gnostics, they mentioned that he was substituted, in fact.
01:50:04.000 So you have early accounts from different histories that say different things about what happened to him on the cross.
01:50:11.000 So if it was so clear, like you say, then how can we have primary source material from different places that have contradictory information about how he died or if he died, even?
01:50:23.000 Can you answer that?
01:50:24.000 Well, again, I wasn't there, and you weren't either.
01:50:26.000 Okay, so imagine this.
01:50:28.000 Imagine if you wasn't there, so I'm saying to you, imagine this.
01:50:32.000 Imagine God is going to put people in hell for a 2,000-year-old history which has contradictions in it.
01:50:39.000 So, for example, look, yeah, if you did...
01:50:42.000 I agree.
01:50:42.000 Pardon?
01:50:43.000 I agree.
01:50:43.000 You're right.
01:50:44.000 Yeah.
01:50:44.000 So imagine this.
01:50:45.000 Imagine you've got a history exam, yeah?
01:50:47.000 Mm-hmm.
01:50:47.000 And there's only one question on the history exam.
01:50:50.000 The history exam says the following.
01:50:52.000 It says, did Jesus die for your sins?
01:50:55.000 Did Jesus die on the cross?
01:50:57.000 Was he resurrected?
01:50:58.000 Two questions.
01:50:59.000 Did he die on the cross?
01:51:00.000 Was he resurrected?
01:51:01.000 Which is the whole point of Easter, yeah?
01:51:03.000 There's two questions on the history exam.
01:51:05.000 I say no.
01:51:06.000 I click on both things, and I have academic reasons.
01:51:09.000 I've just cited them.
01:51:10.000 Based on historical...
01:51:12.000 Information, primary source information, as I said to you, Babylonial, Talmud, diagnostics, and so on.
01:51:17.000 I have historical information.
01:51:19.000 I say that one and two, no, I don't believe he was crucified or resurrected or any of that stuff.
01:51:24.000 So that means because I have this view of history as a historian or an academic or otherwise, that now I must spend my entire afterlife and eternity sizzling, burning, cracking, popping, In a fire,
01:51:40.000 do you think that was something that a merciful God would do?
01:51:43.000 If I don't believe that Jesus died for my sins, I must be eternally damned, doomed, destroyed in a hellfire.
01:51:53.000 Forever.
01:51:53.000 This is not a religion, brother, that makes any sense.
01:51:57.000 Already we've spoken about three in one, and one in three.
01:52:00.000 That's number one.
01:52:01.000 And number two, we've spoken about this idea of the crucifix you brought up.
01:52:05.000 And I'm telling you, on both accounts, these things don't make sense.
01:52:09.000 And if you're sincere, brother, I'm saying to you, it's Ramadan for us.
01:52:12.000 Let me say this to you.
01:52:13.000 If we're sincere about the situation, honestly, There's only one solution, which is to believe there's only one God that is the creator of the heavens and the earth, that is not begotten, that does not beget, does not have children, himself is not a child of anybody,
01:52:30.000 that there's nothing like him, he's the all-powerful one, he's the all-knowing one, He is the one who wills anything that he wants to will.
01:52:39.000 That's the God that we should believe in.
01:52:41.000 That's what's going to give you power and strength.
01:52:43.000 As a man on a Fresh and Fit podcast, what's going to give you power and strength is believing that the most powerful one is your Lord, not the one who, quote unquote, humbled himself and died on a cross and humbled a week.
01:52:55.000 Because when you attach yourself to weakness, you become weak.
01:52:58.000 And when you attach yourself to the ultimate strength, you become strength.
01:53:02.000 You become strong.
01:53:03.000 And that's why we have a saying in Islam.
01:53:07.000 There's no strength and power except with God.
01:53:09.000 The all-powerful one.
01:53:11.000 The all-strong one.
01:53:13.000 So what I'm saying to you is...
01:53:15.000 Look into Islam properly, brother, because I think, hopefully I've planted the seed into your heart today by looking at the key doctrines of Christianity and showing you how nonsensical they are on an ordinary analysis for a lay person.
01:53:27.000 It does not require a scholar.
01:53:29.000 It's just easy to see that these things don't make sense, brother.
01:53:34.000 And what makes sense is that there were prophets.
01:53:36.000 Abraham, Moses, Jesus.
01:53:38.000 We believe that all prophets, they came for one thing and one thing only.
01:53:42.000 To tell people to worship one God and to do good by their fellow man.
01:53:48.000 That's why they came.
01:53:49.000 To worship the God, the creator of the heavens and the earth.
01:53:52.000 The universe.
01:53:53.000 And then to do good by their fellow.
01:53:54.000 That's what we believe as Muslims.
01:53:55.000 That's what Islam is.
01:53:56.000 That's what it means.
01:53:57.000 I appreciate the knowledge, the feedback.
01:54:00.000 I respect it.
01:54:02.000 Thank you very much Fresh.
01:54:03.000 I will say Jesus is not weak though.
01:54:05.000 He's very strong.
01:54:07.000 But listen, I'm not a debater.
01:54:08.000 It's one of your opinions on these things here and your actual truth, which I appreciate as well.
01:54:12.000 And yeah, let's continue.
01:54:14.000 Thank you, bro.
01:54:15.000 No, no, I appreciate that.
01:54:16.000 Appreciate that, bro.
01:54:16.000 It's just because the question that came to us was a Christianity-related question.
01:54:20.000 Yeah, yeah, I get it.
01:54:21.000 Thank you, bro.
01:54:21.000 Appreciate that.
01:54:23.000 Okay, I'll fly through these because we got TK in the house and we're a little bit behind.
01:54:27.000 Next time, I didn't realize that you guys were going to have a whole full-on debate about Christianity versus Islam.
01:54:33.000 No, no, no.
01:54:33.000 I just have questions.
01:54:34.000 I'm not debating it.
01:54:34.000 I just want to see, like...
01:54:36.000 Listen, he's a less debater, bro.
01:54:38.000 Fresh versus hijab is the goal we all waited for.
01:54:40.000 Fresh, you gave the best defense.
01:54:42.000 God gives logic, not hijab.
01:54:44.000 Okay.
01:54:45.000 And it looks like it's split here.
01:54:47.000 Excellence, some people agree with hijab, some people agree with fresh.
01:54:50.000 Excellence advice to hijab from a Muslim viewer.
01:54:52.000 You were invited on an FNF show but are condescending and arrogant.
01:54:55.000 It's embarrassing.
01:54:56.000 They're tired of you.
01:54:57.000 Muslims are respectful and non-arrogant.
01:54:59.000 Respect to all people.
01:55:00.000 Love.
01:55:00.000 Excellence said that.
01:55:02.000 No, he gave his opinion on what he saw.
01:55:05.000 To be fair, bro, if you're watching the show without watching it in full context, you don't see everything.
01:55:10.000 How would he know?
01:55:12.000 Yeah, I know.
01:55:13.000 Well, I mean, the thing is, many of your bimbo guests were going to consider you guys to be arrogant.
01:55:18.000 It's just that when you make an argument with force, there's always going to be people that take offense.
01:55:23.000 Do you get what I'm trying to say?
01:55:24.000 And usually that's the last card resort for someone who doesn't have anything to say about something or hasn't got a logical response.
01:55:31.000 They'll just say, oh, they'll go for the meaner argument.
01:55:34.000 Oh, for the disposition argument.
01:55:36.000 Oh, your disposition wasn't to my liking.
01:55:37.000 I'm not here to entertain anybody.
01:55:40.000 If I wanted to entertain any of the guests, I'll make a freak show.
01:55:43.000 I'll do some funny things.
01:55:45.000 I can do that as well.
01:55:46.000 But, you know, if someone doesn't like my demeanor, of all due respect, I don't care.
01:55:50.000 Like, you know what I'm trying to say?
01:55:51.000 Who the hell?
01:55:52.000 I mean, this person is probably a Pornhub addict.
01:55:55.000 You know, what's that thing they call it?
01:55:58.000 The OnlyFans addict, do you get what I'm saying?
01:56:01.000 You know, this guy is probably in pot noodle now because he's by himself and he's one of the people that has been on Tinder for all this time.
01:56:07.000 Can't find a date.
01:56:08.000 He's coming to the champ and he wants to ask the champ, talk to the champ and say about arrogance and demeanor.
01:56:14.000 Come on.
01:56:14.000 I will say, Hijab, I did see your video on porn and how to think about it and it was a very good breakdown of what you should do and what it really is and what you're lacking when you do that.
01:56:24.000 So that was a very good video.
01:56:26.000 Okay, it goes here.
01:56:28.000 Crew, and I'll just fly through these.
01:56:29.000 Use logic, please.
01:56:30.000 So once Moses went out to take a bath and put his clothes over a stone, and then the stone ran away with his clothes.
01:56:39.000 Moses followed the stone, saying, No.
01:56:45.000 Okay.
01:56:46.000 Jude goes, okay, we read that one already.
01:56:49.000 Okay, here's some rumble rants.
01:56:51.000 Okay, Jocasta says, a jab throwing shots at the show with the prostitute's comments is the arrogance that turns people off.
01:56:56.000 Secondly, the Quran doesn't have direct quotes from Jesus either, so your gospel argument is futile.
01:57:01.000 Okay.
01:57:03.000 WJab cooked this to Kufar.
01:57:05.000 Sticker, bro.
01:57:07.000 W, vasectomy, L, religion.
01:57:09.000 Okay.
01:57:10.000 W, Christians working in the club.
01:57:11.000 That's Sneeko again.
01:57:12.000 And he goes, Potter, goblins.
01:57:14.000 Yeah, I know you don't talk here, bro.
01:57:17.000 Okay.
01:57:19.000 Okay, Vax don't care about you fresh.
01:57:21.000 Okay.
01:57:23.000 Is that it?
01:57:24.000 Oh.
01:57:25.000 The three fingers belong to one hand.
01:57:27.000 Your logic is not sound.
01:57:28.000 Okay, that was in response to the three fingers thing.
01:57:30.000 Okay.
01:57:31.000 Three fingers belong to one hand, but I've got five fingers on the hand.
01:57:35.000 So there are five persons in the Trinity today.
01:57:37.000 Gotcha.
01:57:38.000 What else do we got here?
01:57:39.000 That's it?
01:57:40.000 Oh.
01:57:41.000 There's more.
01:57:42.000 Law of Relativity is a mathematical law.
01:57:44.000 Einstein was famous for this.
01:57:46.000 Okay.
01:57:47.000 And then we got...
01:57:48.000 Debating God and religion is not quite right because God simply says the wisdom of man, meaning the baiters, is foolishness in the eyes of God.
01:57:55.000 You can't read your own book and use it to confirm the book itself and to disprove another religious book.
01:58:00.000 Okay.
01:58:01.000 Okay.
01:58:01.000 I clipped the good moments, Myron.
01:58:06.000 Okay, that's from Ryan L.O.D. All right.
01:58:08.000 And then Mr.
01:58:09.000 Zabata says, Jesus claims to be God, Matthew 2.23, John 8.58, Exodus 3.14, Matthew 11.12, John 14.1-7.
01:58:21.000 And then Dean for Truth.
01:58:22.000 Isn't it good to dispense advice for a person who lives a different lifestyle than yours that's best for them?
01:58:28.000 WFNF? Dean for Truth.
01:58:30.000 Okay.
01:58:31.000 And then Say Christ is King Fresh.
01:58:32.000 There is power in the name.
01:58:33.000 Jesus, gang.
01:58:34.000 Shout out.
01:58:34.000 Yeah.
01:58:35.000 So it's split here.
01:58:36.000 We got a lot of, like, you know, obviously there's Muslim viewers, there's Christian viewers.
01:58:40.000 They're going to have different things here.
01:58:42.000 And then someone else says Christ is King.
01:58:45.000 Okay.
01:58:46.000 Is that it?
01:58:46.000 No, no.
01:58:47.000 Five more.
01:58:48.000 Logic Bomb says...
01:58:49.000 Hijab debate with Jay Dyer?
01:58:51.000 Jay Dyer?
01:58:52.000 Who's that?
01:58:52.000 I don't know who that is.
01:58:54.000 And then Hijab throwing shots at the show.
01:58:56.000 No, we read that one already.
01:58:58.000 WFNFWT, thanks DGBuild.
01:59:00.000 WMireFresh, stand on business, Christ is King.
01:59:02.000 Okay.
01:59:03.000 And then Waylo.
01:59:04.000 So if Jesus is God and he died for our sins, then you believe that not only God can die in addition to that he died at the hands of his own creation.
01:59:11.000 Also the Bible says God is not a man.
01:59:13.000 Okay.
01:59:14.000 Sharpshooter, bro, I tried to send y'all someone who breaks down the bio, but it was blurred.
01:59:19.000 Hijab, you are wrong.
01:59:20.000 Okay.
01:59:21.000 Myron, keep 100 women who are experienced care more about a man's sexual performance than his love for her.
01:59:26.000 That's why men should sleep around before getting serious.
01:59:29.000 I mean, in some way, that is very telling.
01:59:33.000 I mean, yeah, I didn't go into all the weeds of it, guys, because obviously that wasn't the purpose of today's show, but I see your perspective.
01:59:40.000 This is from Silent Chaos.
01:59:42.000 Hey, Muhammad, are certain men exempt from the rule of having a maximum of four wives?
01:59:45.000 Also, are boxers like Devin Haney exempt from Ramadan if they have to train for a fight?
01:59:48.000 Not a bad question.
01:59:51.000 What do you think, Hijab?
01:59:53.000 No, I mean, he wouldn't be exempt if he has to trade for a fight.
01:59:56.000 So he should do what, like, a lot of these other guys do and come outside of Ramadan and fight outside, like in Hamzat and Islam Makhachev and a lot of these, Khabib, famously, he didn't, none of these guys used to fight or still do fight in Ramadan.
02:00:10.000 So that's just something they can do.
02:00:12.000 The second question is about, what was it?
02:00:14.000 What's the first one?
02:00:15.000 The other one was, can you pull it back up?
02:00:18.000 Oh, is there a rule?
02:00:20.000 Are certain men exempt from the rule of having a maximum of four wives?
02:00:26.000 Nah, not really.
02:00:27.000 Not today.
02:00:28.000 That's the max, right?
02:00:29.000 Not today.
02:00:30.000 Yeah, not today.
02:00:31.000 But I mean, obviously, one can marry and divorce.
02:00:34.000 Okay, fair enough.
02:00:35.000 And then marry again and divorce again.
02:00:38.000 But I'm not saying that that's something that, you know...
02:00:40.000 Marriage in Islam is a very easy process, by the way.
02:00:43.000 It is.
02:00:44.000 Like, if someone wants to get married, it's not like this whole, like, ceremony and stuff.
02:00:47.000 You don't need to do any of that.
02:00:48.000 Really, just to avoid zinnah, it's a five-minute process, really.
02:00:52.000 Like, I'm only saying this because, obviously, Myron, we want you to keep you safeguarded and chased as well.
02:00:58.000 Which is the fact that, for example, if you have a Muslim or Christian or Jew, because Muslims are allowed to, Muslim men are allowed to marry Christian women or Jewish women.
02:01:06.000 Muslim women are not allowed to marry Christian men or Jewish men, only Muslim men.
02:01:10.000 But Muslim women, sorry, Muslim men are allowed to marry Christian and Jewish women.
02:01:14.000 So say, for example, you met a Christian woman or a Jewish woman, yeah, or a Muslim woman, and you want to marry her, all you would do is you'd get two witnesses, And two witnesses, two male witnesses, male witnesses, who are Muslim,
02:01:30.000 that they would effectively witness what you're saying.
02:01:35.000 Consent is given on both sides.
02:01:37.000 You'd give her a dowry.
02:01:38.000 The whole process will take five minutes.
02:01:41.000 And if her father gives permission, according to three schools of thought, he's required.
02:01:45.000 If not, then according to one school of thought, he's not even required.
02:01:48.000 So...
02:01:49.000 Really and truly, it's a five minute process and you don't need to fall into what would be considered to be a major sin in the religion of Islam.
02:01:57.000 Which is to commit zinnah.
02:01:58.000 Which is extramarital or premarital fornication or whatever it is.
02:02:03.000 When marriage is made so easy.
02:02:05.000 And they say you don't want to be with the woman anymore.
02:02:06.000 You don't want to be with her anymore.
02:02:08.000 Then you discuss and then you can divorce.
02:02:10.000 It's not like Catholicism.
02:02:11.000 It's not like Catholic religion.
02:02:13.000 Where you're trapped into the marriage and so on.
02:02:15.000 And that, you know, it's a death to us part.
02:02:17.000 No, if you don't want to be with her, you don't have to be with her.
02:02:20.000 So yeah, you can marry up to four wives.
02:02:21.000 You can have four wives at one time.
02:02:24.000 And if you don't want the wife, then you can divorce her and you can get a new one.
02:02:28.000 That's what you can do.
02:02:30.000 Okay.
02:02:31.000 What else do we got here?
02:02:32.000 That's it?
02:02:33.000 Cool.
02:02:34.000 No, this is great.
02:02:35.000 I definitely, I had a bunch of questions here, Mohamed, that we didn't get to get to because we talked about the other stuff.
02:02:40.000 But we'll definitely bring you back and I want to ask more questions about the religion itself so that people can get a better understanding of Islam because obviously there's a lot of negative stereotypes that I wanted you to kind of debunk, but we didn't have time today, unfortunately.
02:02:52.000 And where can they find you, bro?
02:02:53.000 Yeah, but yeah, where can they find you?
02:02:55.000 Yeah, so you can just put my name, Mohamed Hijab, on YouTube.
02:02:59.000 As you mentioned, it's quite a big channel.
02:03:00.000 It's quite easy to find.
02:03:02.000 And you'll see, if you want to see more debates, I've done lots of debates with Christians, lots of debates with atheists.
02:03:07.000 That's something that me and Fresh and everyone else would agree with.
02:03:09.000 And we've done a lot of gender debates.
02:03:11.000 Like, I've done lots of debates against feminists as well.
02:03:13.000 You know what?
02:03:13.000 Before Fresh and Fit and Red Pill, by the way, I had a ton of things about feminists.
02:03:20.000 I was, you know, really...
02:03:23.000 I'm ravaged, if you like, you know, by the community and by outside the community because I used to be talking directly about feminism and stuff like that.
02:03:31.000 So there's also stuff if you wanted to have arguments against feminism.
02:03:35.000 I've done lots and lots of work on that as well.
02:03:38.000 No, that's awesome, man.
02:03:39.000 I'd like to bring you back to talk about Islam, the religion, and kind of educate the people.
02:03:44.000 And then also, I think I have someone in mind that would be a great person that you could talk to.
02:03:49.000 He's an Orthodox Christian, Andrew Wilson.
02:03:51.000 I think that'd be a great conversation between the two of them and we could set it up.
02:03:54.000 Yo, real quick, you know what you should do, bro?
02:03:56.000 Since these prostitutes are on the show, why don't you do a virtual after hours?
02:04:00.000 Have a virtual after hours?
02:04:02.000 Have him on the pod with the girls?
02:04:03.000 Tell these three or fours, any feminists, what do you need to hear from over there?
02:04:07.000 They can sit right here.
02:04:09.000 Tell them what's up.
02:04:09.000 That'd be funny, bro.
02:04:10.000 That'd be funny, actually.
02:04:12.000 What do you think?
02:04:14.000 Yeah, whatever you want.
02:04:16.000 I don't have any problem.
02:04:17.000 I'll speak to anyone you want me to speak to, brother.
02:04:21.000 Yeah, we'll set something up like that in the future, man.
02:04:23.000 I think it'll be great.
02:04:24.000 But I definitely want to have you back on again after, maybe after Ramadan, because I know it's a holy month and fasting is not easy.
02:04:32.000 But yeah, we could definitely do it.
02:04:33.000 But guys, check him out.
02:04:34.000 His YouTube is huge.
02:04:35.000 I think one of the biggest Islamic channels on YouTube.
02:04:38.000 Go check him out.
02:04:39.000 And bro, it was great to have you.
02:04:41.000 And just real quick, I think as Christians and Muslims, we do believe in God.
02:04:47.000 And I do believe as well that we can disagree to, you know, We'll agree to disagree.
02:04:51.000 But at the same time, we shouldn't hate each other.
02:04:53.000 You know what I'm saying?
02:04:54.000 No, of course not.
02:04:55.000 Of course not.
02:04:56.000 Of course not.
02:04:56.000 Of course not.
02:04:57.000 Cool.
02:04:58.000 Guys, go check them out.
02:04:59.000 Look, we're all one community.
02:05:00.000 We're all one family.
02:05:01.000 If you guys need anything from me as well, then I'm here.
02:05:05.000 Awesome.
02:05:05.000 Appreciate it, bro.
02:05:06.000 All right, guys.
02:05:06.000 You guys take it easy.
02:05:07.000 We'll catch you guys.
02:05:08.000 We're going to be back with TK Kirkland here in the next five or ten minutes, man.
02:05:11.000 Sorry we're behind schedule.
02:05:13.000 Mohamed, thank you for coming on.
02:05:14.000 We'll catch you guys.
02:05:14.000 Peace.
02:05:17.000 I'm so far away I just ran, I ran for my life