Fresh & Fit - May 03, 2024


Sulaiman Ahmed And Destiny Debate Israel Palestine Conflict!


Episode Stats

Length

1 hour and 53 minutes

Words per Minute

208.97586

Word Count

23,670

Sentence Count

1,796

Misogynist Sentences

18

Hate Speech Sentences

172


Summary

In Part 2 of the 3peat, we have two special guests in the house, Salimone and Destiny, and we debate Islamophobia and other taboo topics. We also have an interview with Sneeko with the W Single Mom, and a little bit of After Hours with Rude Boy doing bad man things. Also, Myron cooked a lying, money-hungry, black melon chicken. Also, Big bro Myron talks about how he's going to go work in the military and how he plans on doing it, and why he's not going to stop being a brokie. And of course, we get into the latest episode of the Threepeat, where we do an expose on a certain cloud chaser, and it's a doozy! Stay tuned to the end of the episode to find out who won and who lost in the first round of the debate. Stay Tuned for Part 2, coming soon! - The Freshly Packed Crew Thank you for listening and supporting the show, and stay tuned for more episodes coming soon. -The Freshly Packed Crew . -J.J. Frisk and the Freshly Podcast. . . . and we are live! And we are going to do another 3peat! ! -Suleem and Ahmed ( ) Thanks for listening to the show. , and keep it fresh, brozz Love ya'll! -JBredren , J.B. Bredren, J-J. & Ahmed, J-Bran, J.R. & J-Broke Selleen, JB, JT, and J-E-Suleen, . , J-O-Bredran, J.E. & J.V. and J.J., J.O. J&B. J. B. BEDREN . J. O. J-U-R. -J-O. -A.S. - J.A.Bran - J-A. & B. -YANKEES, JAMIE, JE-BRAKE, JK -JE-AYANDS, JAY-AJ -JK, SONGS, JUICY, JORDAN, JARED -JAY-SUNG, JAX-SUELL, JOKER, JORO, JACOB, JAVE, JOSY-SUMMOR, JERRY-SWEET, JOMIE-BEN, JAWE-DUCHE, AND THE PODCAST!


Transcript

00:06:46.000 And we are live.
00:06:46.000 What's up, guys?
00:06:47.000 Welcome to Fresh Red Podcast, man.
00:06:48.000 We're here with two special guests, Destiny and Sulem and Ahmed.
00:06:50.000 Let's get into it!
00:06:51.000 Let's go!
00:07:38.000 I never told Sarah what she was in.
00:07:41.000 All right, and we are live.
00:07:42.000 What's up, guys?
00:07:42.000 Welcome to Freshly Podcast, man.
00:07:44.000 Part two of the three-peat.
00:07:45.000 Earlier, we went ahead and did an expose on a certain cloud chaser, which ruled, you know, it is.
00:07:52.000 We've got two special guests in the house, man.
00:07:53.000 We've got Salimone and Destiny.
00:07:55.000 We're going to debate a couple topics here.
00:07:58.000 A quick announcement is rumble.com slash freshlyfit, castleclub.tv.
00:08:01.000 Get the crypto course.
00:08:02.000 Link is live right now.
00:08:03.000 Top of the description.
00:08:04.000 Get in there.
00:08:04.000 Stop being a brokie.
00:08:05.000 And, yeah, go ahead and get in there, man.
00:08:08.000 Let's get right into it.
00:08:08.000 Yeah.
00:08:09.000 So, guys, the way this debate is going to work is I'm going to basically ask an open-ended question, and I'm going to give each party two minutes or 2.30, right, to go ahead and give their full stance uninterrupted, and then another individual will go ahead and give their full stance uninterrupted, and then we can go ahead and do a back-and-forth after the first round,
00:08:26.000 at least when the stances are made.
00:08:28.000 The first topic we're going to...
00:08:30.000 Well, actually, you know what?
00:08:31.000 Hold on.
00:08:31.000 Before you...
00:08:31.000 What the hell am I doing?
00:08:32.000 Introduction!
00:08:33.000 Yo, we are so familiar with y'all, we forgot to introduce y'all ninjas.
00:08:37.000 Yo, uh, Desi, I'll start with you, man.
00:08:39.000 Can you introduce us to the people for the people that have been living under a rock?
00:08:42.000 Yeah, I do politics and philosophy on YouTube.
00:08:44.000 I'm far left or far right, depending on who I'm arguing with.
00:08:46.000 And today we're going to talk about my Islamophobia.
00:08:50.000 Fantastic.
00:08:51.000 Alright.
00:08:51.000 Welcome to the show, Desi.
00:08:53.000 Welcome back.
00:08:55.000 I'm Suleman.
00:08:55.000 I'm on Twitter.
00:08:57.000 I investigate certain things.
00:08:58.000 And yeah, same topics.
00:08:59.000 Politics and philosophy and theology.
00:09:02.000 Awesome.
00:09:03.000 All right.
00:09:03.000 And he was here actually the other day for his own personal interview.
00:09:07.000 Yes.
00:09:07.000 Really good.
00:09:07.000 It was a great time.
00:09:08.000 It's on Rumble, guys.
00:09:09.000 I know some are like, where'd the interview go?
00:09:10.000 Guys, it's on Rumble because we talked about a bunch of taboo topics that YouTube doesn't like.
00:09:14.000 But it's there on Rumble.
00:09:14.000 Go check it out.
00:09:16.000 Like I said before, guys, a bunch of our cunts are going to have to be on Rumble for obvious reasons.
00:09:19.000 Yeah.
00:09:20.000 Real quick, I'll read the chats and then we're going to get right into this debate.
00:09:23.000 Cool.
00:09:23.000 Because some chats came in on the end of the last show and I want to make sure I'll show y'all some love.
00:09:26.000 Shout out to Sneeko with the W Single Mom.
00:09:29.000 And Sneeko, just to answer your question, I think we're going to have an after hours tonight.
00:09:32.000 Fresh and Rude Boy doing bad man things.
00:09:34.000 You can't mess up again, Brigren.
00:09:36.000 Bredren.
00:09:37.000 Bredren.
00:09:38.000 Bredren.
00:09:39.000 It's a G there.
00:09:40.000 I don't know.
00:09:40.000 Cool it now.
00:09:41.000 Trust me, he's good, man.
00:09:42.000 He's chilling.
00:09:43.000 Jason Todd said, have you heard?
00:09:44.000 She started a charity GoFundMe, apparently.
00:09:46.000 I know.
00:09:46.000 We made fun of her for it.
00:09:48.000 Sneeko's a millionaire, dating $10.
00:09:49.000 Donating $10.
00:09:51.000 Imagine the accent that kid is going to have.
00:09:56.000 Yeah, it's going to be crazy.
00:09:57.000 Myron cooked this lying, money-hungry black melon 304 like sesame chicken.
00:10:01.000 Also, keep it to go work fresh.
00:10:02.000 Thank you so much, Metro.
00:10:03.000 Fuck you, haters.
00:10:04.000 There has been no damage done to the FNF brand.
00:10:06.000 The audience is bigger than ever.
00:10:07.000 Big bro Myron.
00:10:08.000 I appreciate that, JFrisk.
00:10:09.000 Fresh, how do I need to save up to hit...
00:10:12.000 What?
00:10:13.000 This nigga, bro.
00:10:15.000 It's Kuma-san says, I just want to say, what's up with all the haters, especially the ones with platforms?
00:10:19.000 I know y'all stomach bubbly.
00:10:20.000 You can go take a shit now.
00:10:21.000 Hey, bro, it is what it is.
00:10:22.000 Haters gonna hate.
00:10:23.000 They still watch.
00:10:26.000 Anything else?
00:10:27.000 And guys, it's going to be 50 and up will be red for this pod because obviously we want to make sure that we focus on the debate and not have interruptions.
00:10:34.000 Collazo goes WFresh for nutting.
00:10:37.000 Got an eBay business and hit 1.5k profit in April and climbing.
00:10:40.000 I work out two times a day, work on my business, work in the military and still find time to smash these hoes down to Marco.
00:10:45.000 You fresh are like brothers.
00:10:47.000 Okay.
00:10:49.000 And then we got here various layers.
00:10:52.000 This came from before.
00:10:52.000 Various layers.
00:10:53.000 Rantam from Rumble says, have a great day, gentlemen.
00:10:55.000 Keep up the great work.
00:10:56.000 CEO of Network, Big Boss.
00:10:57.000 I appreciate that.
00:10:58.000 Let's go!
00:10:58.000 And then we got Collazo.
00:11:00.000 He says...
00:11:00.000 We just read it.
00:11:02.000 Oh, okay.
00:11:02.000 We let's go.
00:11:03.000 So, first question.
00:11:05.000 First question, guys.
00:11:05.000 I'm just going to go ahead and I'm going to start the timer here.
00:11:07.000 We'll start with...
00:11:08.000 Destiny's kicking it off.
00:11:10.000 Open-ended question.
00:11:11.000 Is Islam the path?
00:11:14.000 And I'll just leave it open-ended and you can go ahead and take any one.
00:11:18.000 I'm a big champion of American liberal democracy.
00:11:21.000 I think that people like to push certain religions because things become trendy over time.
00:11:26.000 But I think the important thing to keep in mind is right now America runs the world.
00:11:29.000 We don't just run it militarily.
00:11:30.000 We don't just run it economically.
00:11:32.000 We also run it culturally.
00:11:33.000 And I think the reason why is because our values allow so many different types of people to come here.
00:11:38.000 Like, just look at the four of us around this table.
00:11:40.000 Like, how many people here are from other countries or whose parents were immigrants?
00:11:43.000 Like, the The only country in the world where all of these different types of people, different types of religions, different types of ideologies can come together and then form a business in a capital-free investment environment and then broadcast that to the entire world on American invented technology is the United States of America.
00:11:58.000 No Islamic country has done that.
00:12:00.000 Ottoman Empire fell.
00:12:02.000 Nobody's replaced it since.
00:12:03.000 None of these Islamic countries are able to take as much culture as we have and kind of like mix them all together in the way that the United States has.
00:12:10.000 And I worry sometimes that people that champion certain types of religions do so in kind of a militant way and do so in a bit of an exclusionary way as well.
00:12:18.000 For instance, you should be able to make fun of anybody who you want.
00:12:21.000 I think that you guys probably agree with that here more than anybody else.
00:12:24.000 I agree with it on my platform, obviously.
00:12:27.000 A lot of Muslim people don't agree with it.
00:12:28.000 In France, when they did the Charlie Hebdo drawings of Muhammad, there were people that broke into that comic facility and they killed people because they were so upset that, you know, people drew the Muhammad, you know, Salaf, whatever the fuck you say, praise be upon him, and they decided to go and kill the dude.
00:12:43.000 Kill the dudes, kill multiple people on that attack.
00:12:45.000 I don't like the fact that for the people that champion Islam, it seems like they do so in an exclusionary manner, that everybody has to be Islamic, that everybody has to be part of their religion, and that they can attack and kill people who disagree with their religion, because I think one of the most beautiful things about the United States is the fact that we can tell a cop to fuck off,
00:13:01.000 that we can tell a Christian to fuck off, that we can tell I want Muslims to fuck off, that we can draw whatever we want, make fun of whatever we want, make porn out of whatever the fuck we want.
00:13:07.000 And I would think that that is the coolest thing in the United States, and I think that that's what allows us to even do what we're doing here today.
00:13:12.000 And I don't think any Islamic country or Muslim majority country has been able to achieve the world domination that the United States has when it comes to military, economy, and most importantly, culture.
00:13:21.000 All right.
00:13:22.000 That's two minutes on the dot.
00:13:23.000 Okay.
00:13:24.000 Thank you, Destiny.
00:13:27.000 So first of all, I agree with his analysis of America and American culture in current times.
00:13:34.000 When he's mentioned about advancements, that's right in current times, but then obviously that's failing and ignoring the entire history, right?
00:13:40.000 So what that demonstrates is you don't need to be a specific culture or religion because if you look at history, it was many of the advancements that were made both in science, culture, literature, The renaissance in terms of Greek philosophy, theology, science, all of it came from the Islamic civilizations.
00:13:58.000 So they weren't backward, they were actually visionary in the past.
00:14:02.000 Obviously things develop, things change.
00:14:04.000 In terms of Islam being exclusionary, that's completely not true.
00:14:07.000 Islam within Or totalitarity allows all religions, cultures and psychologies within it.
00:14:15.000 Now in terms of what he's talking about in terms of freedom, I'm for all the freedom.
00:14:18.000 The problem is we're seeing in real time that this propaganda no longer works because in reality we've seen it.
00:14:25.000 You speak against Judaism, you speak against Zionism, and they completely want to censor you.
00:14:29.000 You're not allowed to mention the Holocaust in certain countries because you're going to be locked up, put in the gulags.
00:14:33.000 You're not allowed right now in the United States.
00:14:35.000 You can't even do BDS in 34 states because of Zionism.
00:14:40.000 So as much as he wants to say, it's not.
00:14:42.000 And when you look at extremism, yes, there are extreme elements within Islam.
00:14:45.000 One isn't going to deny that.
00:14:46.000 But from a proportional perspective, we've seen it.
00:14:49.000 The extremism that's happened within Zionism.
00:14:51.000 And so extremism is bred from different ideas, cultures, and it's even from atheism.
00:14:54.000 We've seen a huge amount that's happened in terms of atheism.
00:14:58.000 So extremism is everywhere.
00:14:59.000 Now, in terms of Islam, I've got no issue with people being Muslim, Christian.
00:15:03.000 They could be what they want, right?
00:15:03.000 No problem whatsoever.
00:15:04.000 My issue is when there's dual standards.
00:15:06.000 So someone like Destiny feels pretty chill about attacking Muslims.
00:15:10.000 No problem.
00:15:10.000 All good.
00:15:11.000 As long as you're willing to debate the ideas, right?
00:15:12.000 But the same type of people Basically lose their minds if you're willing to talk about Judaism.
00:15:18.000 They'll call you anti-Semitic.
00:15:19.000 They'll want to put you in jail.
00:15:21.000 So there is these dual standards and Judaism has the same standards that Islam has.
00:15:26.000 The only difference is someone like Destiny won't call them out.
00:15:29.000 And obviously we know why.
00:15:30.000 So when you say you run the world, I guess America does from a corporate perspective, but not from a corporate perspective.
00:15:35.000 Okay.
00:15:36.000 I'll turn it over to you, Destiny.
00:15:39.000 What's your response to that?
00:15:41.000 Yeah, there was the Islamic Golden Age.
00:15:42.000 It came and it went.
00:15:43.000 We got democracy from the Greeks.
00:15:45.000 We got multiculturalism and we got former expanded governments from Romans.
00:15:49.000 We got the whole industrial age from Europe.
00:15:51.000 We got the age of the Catholic Church.
00:15:53.000 These civilizations come and they go and we don't go back to them.
00:15:56.000 Sometimes people have a lot to contribute to the world, and then we get those things, and then the world moves on.
00:16:00.000 You just never turn around and go back.
00:16:02.000 If there was such an Islamic golden age, and if Muslims contributed so much to the world and so much to world culture, why did they lose it all?
00:16:07.000 What happened to it?
00:16:09.000 Why don't we see them continue to dominate today?
00:16:12.000 And so far as, like, in the United States, you can't make fun of Nazis, or you can't make fun of Jews, or you can't make fun of whatever.
00:16:17.000 You can make fun of whatever you want here.
00:16:18.000 The laws will protect you doing whatever.
00:16:20.000 That doesn't mean you don't necessarily get hosted on any platforms.
00:16:22.000 But, I mean, again, like, yeah, there might be some platforms that would ban you if you I don't have to worry about getting banned.
00:16:31.000 I have to worry about getting beheaded.
00:16:33.000 I think there's a significant difference there.
00:16:34.000 I think I'd rather be worried about Susan coming after me on YouTube than I would be about Abdel coming after me to murder me because I said something about his religion that he doesn't like.
00:16:43.000 I think you said Abdull.
00:16:45.000 Abdull.
00:16:45.000 Okay.
00:16:46.000 Your response to that?
00:16:47.000 So, first of all, let's take the last one.
00:16:49.000 So yeah, you may have to worry about Abdull basically being an individual who doesn't follow the rules of Islam and basically has his ego.
00:16:55.000 Just like you'd probably be worried about Weinstein getting angry with you and stabbing you because you went against Judaism.
00:17:00.000 Or for example, if you're walking in Israel just because you're a Christian, getting spit on.
00:17:02.000 Or if you're basically...
00:17:05.000 A different religion, if you're a Muslim or Christian, being killed by Brett Weinstein or whatever the name is.
00:17:09.000 So you've got these ideas in many cultures.
00:17:13.000 In terms of what you said, of course, we received democracies from the Greeks, but do you know how we got that information from the Greeks?
00:17:17.000 It was from the Muslims.
00:17:19.000 And you're right, civilisation start and end.
00:17:20.000 So in reality, your argument is this is the current civilisation.
00:17:23.000 And based on your own argument, it will end.
00:17:25.000 And actually, many historians say that the pro-territarians within any society become the dominant.
00:17:30.000 And right now, according to even historical literature, the pro-lateral...
00:17:37.000 We're good to go.
00:17:40.000 We're good to go.
00:17:50.000 Whether you're able to, someone like Destiny, able to attack Islam, and he's fine.
00:17:54.000 He even said, I hate Islam, sorry.
00:17:56.000 But he would never say, I hate Judaism, even though Judaism is much more extreme.
00:17:59.000 Any problem someone like him would ever have with Islam, I've always explained and I've always shown that Judaism is much more extreme in all aspects, in all endeavours.
00:18:09.000 So yeah, in terms of YouTube being banned.
00:18:11.000 So yeah, you can deep platform someone, you could take someone's voice away.
00:18:13.000 That's one aspect.
00:18:14.000 But also we've seen the genocidal nature of extremist regimes, whether it comes from all religions or no religions.
00:18:21.000 And we've seen that in real time right now.
00:18:22.000 Just a final point.
00:18:25.000 There's a reason why we're on YouTube discussing this right now.
00:18:29.000 And we're going to be talking about Zionism in rumble.
00:18:31.000 So that says it all.
00:18:32.000 Okay.
00:18:34.000 I mean, I'll shit on Judaism, but the problem is not many people care.
00:18:39.000 If I go online and I start talking about, like, apparently Jewish people bite off foreskins or some shit when they circumcise kids, like, every Jewish friend I have or every Jewish guy online will be like, yeah, that's pretty weird.
00:18:47.000 We don't really do that much anymore.
00:18:48.000 That's what everybody will say.
00:18:49.000 If I go online and I talk about marrying a fucking nine-year-old, or if I do, like, here's a funny picture of Muhammad AI-generated, I've got like five million death threats in my inbox.
00:18:57.000 It's not even remotely close.
00:18:58.000 We can pretend that we're just as worried about a Weinstein stabbing you for being Christian as we would be about Muhammad beheading you for being Christian or Jewish.
00:19:08.000 But, I mean, where are all of the Muslims trying to immigrate to?
00:19:11.000 And where are all of the Christians and Jews going?
00:19:13.000 I don't see this reverse, like, Christians and Jews feeling like they can find safe havens in these Arab-majority Muslim countries.
00:19:18.000 I do see a lot of Muslims from those countries trying to go to Europe and trying to go to the United States, and I think there's a reason for that.
00:19:23.000 Okay.
00:19:23.000 Okay, so just...
00:19:24.000 Oh, go ahead.
00:19:25.000 So the first thing is, yes, you would be banned in all forms of social media if you said Jews try to basically bite the foreskin.
00:19:33.000 I mean, Lucas Gage is a...
00:19:34.000 I've tweeted this out before, right?
00:19:35.000 Lucas Gage is a prime example of someone who calls Jews out and completely is banned.
00:19:40.000 So you would, in terms of death threats, I mean, I've had a huge amount of death threats from Zionists, right?
00:19:43.000 And I've had my name on a missile, so let's not pretend that this is only happening one way, right?
00:19:47.000 And proportionally, there's two billion Muslims.
00:19:49.000 There's only a small people, small number of Jews, and yeah, The death threats are disproportionate.
00:19:53.000 In terms of when you talk about marrying an animal, someone like you is an example that you would be willing to mention that.
00:19:57.000 And again, you probably, and I know you don't know the epistemology and the hermeneutics behind that argument, but you wouldn't mention about Judaism, which literally says marry three-year-olds.
00:20:05.000 And this is an example of when we're mentioned, as an example, when I mention in debates, they lose their minds.
00:20:10.000 They'll block me.
00:20:11.000 They'll try and cancel me.
00:20:12.000 And this has happened on many platforms.
00:20:13.000 So it does happen indeed.
00:20:15.000 I think Weinstein, you meant, Weinstein is a Jewish name, so you probably just got confused there.
00:20:19.000 And the last bit about immigration.
00:20:20.000 So, of course, The reason people emigrate to Western countries, and not obviously Israel, is because due to Zionist agenda, basically Muslim countries have been bombed to the ground.
00:20:31.000 Now, when there's certain countries that have basically not been bombed to the ground, we're seeing emigration happening.
00:20:36.000 We're seeing basically people from Britain go to Dubai and go to UAE. So it's not specifically about that, but it's really about a 20-year, even longer, psychological impact of destroying these countries for Israel.
00:20:54.000 We'll get into that.
00:20:56.000 I got one question and then we'll switch over.
00:20:58.000 Follow-up question because we've already been on the topic.
00:21:01.000 Is Islam a religion of peace?
00:21:02.000 Who wants to take it first?
00:21:03.000 I'll go two minutes so you can take your stance and then we can go from there.
00:21:07.000 Who wants to take that first?
00:21:09.000 I can go first, I guess.
00:21:11.000 I don't know if we'll disagree on this.
00:21:12.000 My background is Catholic.
00:21:13.000 I grew up in the Archdiocese in Omaha, Nebraska.
00:21:16.000 I've seen a lot of different things between different Catholic churches.
00:21:19.000 I've seen a lot of different things in a Catholic church.
00:21:20.000 I don't like generalizing any one particular religion because it feels really silly to do so.
00:21:24.000 If you look at the culture and how people operate in Saudi Arabia, and then you compare that to the people, the Houthis in Yemen, you compare that to absolute monarchs in the Gulf states compared to the secular dictatorship in Egypt compared to the Islamists.
00:21:38.000 Muslimist dictatorship, the Ayatollah in Iran.
00:21:40.000 There are so many different types of Muslim people all over the world.
00:21:44.000 Muslims in the United States are going to be way different.
00:21:46.000 Muslims in Miami are going to be way different than Muslims in Dearborn, Michigan, or Muslims in Europe, in France and Paris, in London.
00:21:53.000 It depends.
00:21:54.000 Everybody's so different.
00:21:55.000 I wouldn't say that Islam is a religion of peace, but I also wouldn't say that Christianity is a religion of peace.
00:21:59.000 What about Judaism?
00:22:00.000 Judaism is, I wouldn't say anything is the religion of peace.
00:22:03.000 No, I think that people can be violent with religions and people can be not violent with religions.
00:22:08.000 It really just depends on the individual actors.
00:22:10.000 I do think that Islam kind of has a problem sometimes and that Islam kind of has baked into it more political ideology, which I think can be problematic.
00:22:17.000 But, I mean, there are like two billion Muslims on the planet.
00:22:19.000 And I think that they're, you know, ironically enough, that was brought up in the last point, is like these countries have been destroyed.
00:22:24.000 I mean, I'm pretty sure that Arabs have probably killed each other more than any Western intervention countries have.
00:22:29.000 At least for the 1900s and onwards, or the 1920s and onwards at least.
00:22:33.000 Real quick, Destiny, if you're going to choose a religion to go to, let's just say you're going to choose a religion to go towards, which would it be?
00:22:39.000 Islam, Christianity, Buddhism?
00:22:41.000 Well, I feel like, damn, if Jews run the world, they're secretly in charge of fucking everything.
00:22:44.000 I feel like I want to be with those dudes.
00:22:46.000 Okay.
00:22:47.000 From all the things that I've learned about religion, I like Christianity, because I feel like the coolest cheerleader guy is Jesus, because he's super selfless, he's obviously strong, he's God, he does all this shit, but he handles, he treats everybody with respect, even sinners, don't judge the sinner, judge the sin.
00:23:01.000 I feel like Jesus is the prime example of if every single person on the planet could be a particular figure, he would be the one that you would want to be like.
00:23:08.000 So, fuck the Jews for killing him, I'll say that, okay?
00:23:11.000 All right!
00:23:13.000 That's about to be criminalized.
00:23:14.000 I'll turn it to you Suleiman.
00:23:15.000 Is Islam a religion of peace?
00:23:17.000 I agree with his assessment actually in the first part of it, right?
00:23:21.000 The individuals, it depends on the individuals and also on top of that as well, it depends on the sex and ideas and ideologies, right?
00:23:28.000 So I agree with it.
00:23:29.000 In terms of Islam being a political ideology, again, this is like a false norma and false notion that's applied.
00:23:34.000 Because actually every ideology, whether it's Western or religious, has political elements in it, from Greek, from Plato's Republic, to even current times when you've basically got these scenarios happening.
00:23:46.000 Actually, within the United Kingdom, Judaism actually has their own legal courts, they have their own police, so they have their own kind of political framework, even within Western countries.
00:23:56.000 So when people make that argument, it's basically based on either Propaganda or they're seeing certain extreme elements within Islam and assuming and basically applying that to everybody else.
00:24:06.000 But everything else, I agree with his assessment.
00:24:08.000 In terms of Arabs killing each other, that's also fake as well, but we'll talk about that.
00:24:11.000 I guess he's going to talk about Syria, but again, that was because of Western intervention.
00:24:15.000 Okay.
00:24:16.000 All right.
00:24:16.000 So that...
00:24:18.000 Should I read some chats?
00:24:19.000 Then we're probably going to cut to rumble here because now we're going to get into the other stuff.
00:24:23.000 One thousand.
00:24:36.000 My friend, do you not see all the Castle Club videos that we put on there on the side?
00:24:40.000 Bro, you guys get behind the scenes and no one else gets.
00:24:41.000 Yeah, and we do live streams on there for y'all as well, man.
00:24:44.000 I mean...
00:24:46.000 But we do need to do the Zoom calls.
00:24:47.000 You're right about that.
00:24:48.000 We will get y'all the Zoom calls, man.
00:24:50.000 We've been traveling a lot for the past month and a half or so.
00:24:53.000 So we got y'all.
00:24:54.000 Don't worry.
00:24:55.000 Let's see here.
00:24:58.000 Alright.
00:24:59.000 Alright, we're off YouTube?
00:25:00.000 Cool.
00:25:00.000 Now we're on Rumble.
00:25:01.000 Okay, so I'll go ahead and start with the first question here, which is, let's see here.
00:25:09.000 It is, should America fund Israel?
00:25:13.000 Why or why not?
00:25:15.000 That is the first question.
00:25:17.000 I'll turn it to Destiny.
00:25:18.000 You want to go first?
00:25:19.000 He can go first.
00:25:20.000 I've gone first every time.
00:25:20.000 Suleiman, you can go first.
00:25:22.000 Should America fund Israel?
00:25:24.000 You need a pen?
00:25:24.000 Yeah, please.
00:25:25.000 Okay, take that real quick.
00:25:27.000 Hey, girls, get another pen.
00:25:29.000 Right, okay.
00:25:29.000 So should America fund Israel?
00:25:31.000 I'd say no whatsoever.
00:25:33.000 And the reason is because it's a foreign country.
00:25:35.000 And basically every country should put their own interests first.
00:25:38.000 So the fact that you basically got our foreign nation appropriate in that country, and I say the same thing about United Kingdom as well, so we can apply to both in case they think it's a Brit talking about America.
00:25:45.000 Yeah.
00:25:46.000 A foreign nation, you should never have a scenario where a foreign nation is basically being controlled by a foreign entity.
00:25:53.000 Now, if America wasn't funding Israel, you wouldn't have many of the problems that we have in the Middle East.
00:25:57.000 If you believe in this idea, which many of us don't, but even if you believe in this idea of might is right.
00:26:02.000 Well, might should be based on individual bases.
00:26:04.000 It shouldn't be based on, for example, America's might being used by lobbyists within America to basically destroy the country.
00:26:11.000 If you also want safety in America, you would ensure that you don't basically help or be complicit with basically a crazy nation that is basically destroying the Middle East, trying everything in its power to cause world war.
00:26:24.000 Look at America.
00:26:25.000 When I come here, I'm shocked at the level of poverty that's here, the level of how people are struggling on the streets of America.
00:26:31.000 There was a study come out recently that people are trying to decide whether to pay the bills or whether to basically have food.
00:26:42.000 So when you've got Americans doing that and then this money is going to Israel or going to Ukraine or many of these foreign nations, you're basically having a scenario where Americans are struggling.
00:26:50.000 The second thing is all this does is benefit the military-industrial complex.
00:26:54.000 And again, who controls the military-industrial complex?
00:26:56.000 Who controls the governments?
00:26:57.000 It's again Israel.
00:26:58.000 If China, Russia or any other foreign nations were in the same situation, no one would accept it.
00:27:02.000 So yeah, I believe that America should not be funding foreign nations when it comes to war.
00:27:06.000 I'm not a pro complete exclusionary ideology that I would just not logistically I don't think that makes sense even from a multi popularity perspective but you should not have a scenario where you basically have a foreign nation that controls America and then because of that it's acting the way it's what what Israel would never ever act in the way it's doing with Iran if it didn't have this idea that we're gonna get America we're gonna get Britain we're gonna get these foreign nations to come and back us up okay that is two minutes go ahead Destiny your response Yeah,
00:27:33.000 I think it's just a really basic game theory.
00:27:35.000 If you live on a block with 10 people and you say, hey, nobody's allowed to form any alliances, we all have to be on ourselves or on our own, what's going to happen is two neighbors are going to team up, three neighbors are going to team up, five neighbors are going to team up, and then you who are all like individuals are going to be like, okay, well, Fuck us, because now five neighbors are going to come and beat one guy.
00:27:52.000 Five neighbors are going to come and beat another guy.
00:27:53.000 Another guy will join them.
00:27:54.000 Six guys will go and beat the one guy.
00:27:55.000 You have to form alliances in the world.
00:27:57.000 It's the way that the world works.
00:27:59.000 We can't navigate the world pretending that if we decide to pull all of our money back from everybody, that everybody else in the world is going to do the same.
00:28:05.000 If the United States leaves some particular place, Russia will fill the absence.
00:28:09.000 China will fill the absence.
00:28:10.000 They've already tried to do it in the Middle East.
00:28:12.000 Russia's trying to do it right now in Eastern Europe.
00:28:14.000 And you've got China who wants to do it all over the...
00:28:17.000 South China Sea.
00:28:18.000 So the idea that we can just back away from everything and then lose the security of our trade routes?
00:28:24.000 What if China or Russia says, sorry, we're actually going to turn off your microchips.
00:28:26.000 We're going to turn off your access to Taiwan.
00:28:28.000 We're going to turn off your shipping to Africa.
00:28:31.000 We're going to turn off your shipping to Europe.
00:28:32.000 We would have to say, oh, well, I guess we can't do anything because we hate the military-industrial complex.
00:28:36.000 Military-industrial complex, like Theodore Roosevelt said, is incredibly important.
00:28:39.000 We need to guarantee U.S. ability to trade and interact with countries with our Navy.
00:28:43.000 It's the reason why we have one, and it's why we've been so prosperous.
00:28:45.000 It's why these microphones probably come from other countries.
00:28:47.000 It's why every single thing in this room was shipped in somewhere else.
00:28:49.000 It was on the backs of the security of what the United States Navy is able to provide.
00:28:53.000 So, yeah, we have to have alliances.
00:28:54.000 We have to work with other countries.
00:28:56.000 We have to have people that are on our side because if they're not on our side, they're going to join somebody else.
00:28:59.000 If somebody's about to come and knock your door down and America says, eh, we're not going to help you, they're not going to sit there and have their house be demolished.
00:29:04.000 They're either going to join the enemy or they're going to join somebody else.
00:29:06.000 You know, I don't think the move in World War II would have been to say, like, oh, well, we'll let Nazi Germany take over the entirety of Europe and we'll see what happens after that.
00:29:13.000 Hopefully they don't come for us, even though Japan did with Pearl Harbor.
00:29:17.000 Yeah, I think that having alliances is important.
00:29:18.000 I think that it ensures our ability to operate in the world freely.
00:29:21.000 I think it gives us access to all sorts of other countries and cultures in ways that we wouldn't otherwise.
00:29:24.000 And I think that that is a value that we should absolutely continue to champion in the United States.
00:29:27.000 Okay, I don't think you heard my argument because I literally said don't be exclusionary, right?
00:29:33.000 So I agree that you need alliances.
00:29:35.000 I agree that you need trade agreements.
00:29:37.000 What I am saying is do not Basically, give money away to a country that is then destabilizing a region and actually having threats in your own country and then have a scenario where your own people are struggling.
00:29:49.000 These are two different things.
00:29:50.000 You can, for example, the United States has trade agreements with Saudi.
00:29:54.000 That's probably not a great example because of the Houthis.
00:29:56.000 But, for example, the United States have trade agreements with the UAE. They have trade agreements with...
00:30:01.000 Jordan and many other countries, it doesn't mean that they're basically financially funding them to help with the genocide or basically financially funding them to help destabilize the region.
00:30:10.000 The whole problem what we have is when the United States has become the tool of Israel, you have a scenario where the entire region is...
00:30:19.000 Basically, there's complete havoc in the region.
00:30:21.000 That causes a problem within the region and is actually a threat to the United States from a financial perspective and from a stability perspective and a safety perspective.
00:30:29.000 And on top of that as well, it's a problem in terms of...
00:30:34.000 We're good to go.
00:30:57.000 We're good to go.
00:31:16.000 Sending money for basically no reason other than destabilizing the region and gifting that money, essentially.
00:31:22.000 Hence why you had basically a bill go through now, which was basically to gift them because they're struggling right now.
00:31:27.000 Iron Dome is financially supported by America, which again gives them that vigor to basically start being so crazy and destabilizing the region.
00:31:34.000 When you look at many of their acts, they've done them acts thinking, we've got this backup from the United States so we can act irrationally.
00:31:41.000 And when you've got an irrational actor, the risk for us is that there could be one or three.
00:31:46.000 Yeah, I mean, when you look at who's destabilizing the Middle East right now, I don't think Israel is the source of the destabilization.
00:31:52.000 I think Iran and their funding of Hezbollah in Lebanon, or Iran's funding of the Houthis in Yemen, or Iran's funding and support for Hamas in Israel, I think that this is a far greater source of destabilization than anything that the United States might be contributing.
00:32:04.000 If you look at raw cost of lives, the Iran-Iraq war cost some one to two million lives, which is more than Every single Israeli-Palestinian-Arab conflict combined times ten.
00:32:14.000 So it's not even close to the level of destabilization.
00:32:17.000 And then when we look at, like, we're destabilizing the Middle East by supporting Israel, we need to pull out so what?
00:32:21.000 It can look more like Yemen?
00:32:22.000 So it can look more like Syria?
00:32:26.000 So it can look more like Iraq or Iran?
00:32:28.000 Like, what are our stable bastions of thriving Muslim-majority, you know, theocracies or dictatorships in the Middle East that we want everything to look more similar to?
00:32:38.000 I think that Israel is doing pretty good considering they're sitting on land with almost no natural resources.
00:32:42.000 All of their industry comes from technology and the agriculture that they've brutally terraformed the land to support.
00:32:48.000 I think that it's good to support Israel there.
00:32:49.000 I think that they do a lot of good for the United States.
00:32:51.000 I think they give us a good eye into the Middle East.
00:32:52.000 I think it's a good example of a democratic country working even in the Middle East better than anything else surrounding them.
00:32:57.000 And I think we should continue to support said country because, yeah.
00:33:01.000 So the things you mentioned, right?
00:33:02.000 The problem is you mentioned all those countries and we're like, look at those countries.
00:33:05.000 But those countries are only like that because of the US bombing them for Israel.
00:33:10.000 You mentioned the Iran-Iraq war, but there was a huge amount of loss of life, right?
00:33:14.000 But what actually happened with that?
00:33:15.000 You basically had a scenario where one of the countries was the number one best economy in that region.
00:33:21.000 The other one was the number four best economy in that region.
00:33:23.000 And again, it was because of Western kind of...
00:33:30.000 We're good to go.
00:33:58.000 You mentioned Iran.
00:33:59.000 Iran was a democracy until America came and destabilized it and basically ended the democracy in America in the 50s.
00:34:06.000 And then you basically put the monarchs in and then again they got turned over.
00:34:09.000 So you have the same scenario.
00:34:11.000 So when you look at it, the acts of Iran when it comes to financially funding the defense That you've got against Israeli aggression in the Middle East or, for example, Israeli aggression through America because they're forcing them through the control of the United States.
00:34:26.000 As you said, they run the world.
00:34:27.000 I mean, you said it with mocking, but in reality, it was completely accurate.
00:34:31.000 They run the United States of America and then they're forcing the destabilization of those countries.
00:34:36.000 And also, for example, you've completely forgot...
00:34:39.000 The fake weapons of mass destruction, which again was done for Israel to destroy Iraq when a million Iraqis plus were killed.
00:34:49.000 But what were they killed for?
00:34:50.000 They were killed for nothing and hence why many people who I know, such as Lucas Gage, realised that, wait, I'm fighting this war for this foreign nation and they had an epiphany and realised that the Zionist state is a huge problem for world peace.
00:35:04.000 Yeah, the United States and the West was not the reason for the Iran-Iraq war.
00:35:08.000 The United States did not tell Saddam Hussein to invade Kuwait.
00:35:11.000 The United States did not tell Saddam Hussein to gas the Kurdish people.
00:35:14.000 The United States did not tell Assad to gas his own people.
00:35:16.000 The United States was not the instigator for the Syrian civil war.
00:35:19.000 The United States did not cause the Arab Spring to erupt all across the Arab world.
00:35:25.000 That the United States is so singularly powerful that it can uniquely disrupt and cause all of these countries to fall into disarray is probably more reflection on those countries than any U.S. foreign policy.
00:35:34.000 I acknowledge that, especially through the Cold War, the United States was quite interventionalist in probably negative ways in a lot of different countries, and the Middle East is not accepted from that.
00:35:42.000 However, a lot of that was only possible because of the destabilization that already existed in these countries.
00:35:46.000 Even with the installation of the Shah, the only reason why that was even able to happen is because that country was experiencing massive issues relating to unemployment.
00:35:53.000 That's why they wanted to nationalize the oil fields.
00:35:54.000 That's why BP and Great Britain begged us to come in and help them control the assets that they'd invested all that money into.
00:36:00.000 I'm not saying that US or foreign action is perfect here, but these countries all have issues relating to how they run, relating to how their leaders conduct themselves in war, relating to, you know, Yeah.
00:36:32.000 Then maybe they don't need to be rulers.
00:36:35.000 If they could be so easily meddled with or so easily influenced by the United States because of things that have happened, you know, 30, 40, 50 years ago, I don't know if that's like a strong argument for the stability of any of these countries.
00:36:45.000 Because again, if it's not us meddling in them, what?
00:36:46.000 It would be what?
00:36:47.000 The Soviet Union?
00:36:48.000 It would be China?
00:36:49.000 You know, we can say no, but like people complain about, oh, you know, Al-Qaeda came from the Mujahideen and blah, blah, blah.
00:36:54.000 Well, who did we fund them to fight off?
00:36:55.000 It was because the Soviets were trying to install their own government in Afghanistan.
00:36:58.000 Yeah, again, world meddling is not unique to any country.
00:37:00.000 We don't do it as much as we used to, and I understand that there are issues that happen in the Middle East because of some meddling, but they can't all be blamed on the United States.
00:37:06.000 Okay, that's two minutes.
00:37:07.000 Suleiman, your response to that?
00:37:09.000 Cool.
00:37:10.000 Yeah, so look, this is just completely inaccurate and changing history to what it is, right?
00:37:15.000 Like, it's pretending that basically in 1988, when them students took off over the U.S. Embassy and exposed the fact that the U.S. directly intervened and overthrew the democracy in Iran, didn't happen.
00:37:28.000 Like, everybody knows that happened.
00:37:30.000 Like, how can you say it didn't happen?
00:37:31.000 Everybody knows it.
00:37:32.000 When you mentioned the Arab Spring, right?
00:37:34.000 So some of it was...
00:37:36.000 Organic, right?
00:37:36.000 But the vast majority of it was inorganic.
00:37:38.000 I can give you Syria as an example.
00:37:40.000 Syria was completely inorganic.
00:37:42.000 You had basically a scenario where there was people protesting, which you have in many countries, disagreeing with Bashar, and then this was propagated through the media, through the West, To essentially cause a huge amount of protest because this is what they do.
00:37:56.000 They know that when you propagate a certain amount of information and you cause a populist to basically be in open arms, you can basically destabilise the country.
00:38:04.000 And that's what they did.
00:38:05.000 So that happened for sure.
00:38:07.000 In terms of...
00:38:10.000 You made a huge contradiction because first you said very early on that, yeah, we are America.
00:38:16.000 America dominates.
00:38:17.000 We dominate everyone.
00:38:18.000 And now you're saying it's completely unfathomable that the United States could dominate.
00:38:23.000 But this is, again, in Accra, because when you look at the actual situation that occurred, and we mentioned them, the United States was involved.
00:38:30.000 So, for example, when you look at Saddam Hussein, Saddam Hussein had very good relations with the United States.
00:38:33.000 His actions were...
00:38:39.000 We're good to go.
00:38:59.000 Power to do so, but not the military power, not the other aspects that basically intelligence and various other things that which the United States basically provides.
00:39:07.000 So when you look at that region, and when I say the United States, I'm saying it's for Israel.
00:39:11.000 It's for that country because they want destabilization.
00:39:15.000 If you want, I'll give you another 30 if you need to finish.
00:39:18.000 No, no, something.
00:39:18.000 You did?
00:39:18.000 Okay.
00:39:19.000 I'll turn it to you.
00:39:20.000 Destiny, then we can hit the next topic if you guys feel it.
00:39:22.000 Yeah, I mean, stable countries don't have protests that turn into attempted coups.
00:39:26.000 It just doesn't happen, no matter how strong you think the United States is.
00:39:28.000 When I say that we dominate, I mean that we dominate economically and we dominate culturally.
00:39:32.000 Everybody listens to our music, everybody listens to our movies, everybody watches our podcast.
00:39:36.000 You probably got people in the Middle East watching this podcast right now, as long as it's not illegal in their particular country to watch.
00:39:40.000 That's what I mean when I talk about U.S. domination.
00:39:41.000 I don't mean we're necessarily intervening in every single country.
00:39:44.000 We do try to intervene in some countries, but it's not because—if you look at the history of Yemen, Yemeni destabilization didn't happen because of the United States.
00:39:51.000 This has been a destabilized country for decades.
00:39:55.000 There have been fights going back to, from my recollection, at least the 60s, where tons of Middle Eastern countries have huge investments in what's going on in Yemen and supporting different leaders.
00:40:16.000 I don't think a lot of it is defensible.
00:40:23.000 Or to say that these countries have no autonomy and they just can't resist and they're getting constantly overthrown and school students funded by the United States and Twitter are able to completely destroy the entire country of Syria.
00:40:32.000 I think that there are more fundamental problems that exist there if another country can give you a gentle push and all of a sudden your country falls into chaos.
00:40:38.000 Okay, you have a response to that?
00:40:40.000 I can respond to it.
00:40:42.000 And then we'll move into the next topic.
00:40:44.000 So look, the problem is that you are now making the argument that when you don't have, when someone isn't doing protests, and then there isn't outside interference, that that can't overthrow the country.
00:40:57.000 But that is completely inaccurate.
00:40:58.000 We're seeing the college protests in the United States where they're basically the government is so harshly Harshly attacking the students and stopping them from doing so.
00:41:06.000 Now imagine there was foreign intervention in that and you could basically have a scenario where the entire country could be overthrown.
00:41:12.000 You could have that scenario.
00:41:13.000 If a populist is enough Right down the middle, where people have had enough, you can easily overthrow a country.
00:41:20.000 And we've seen that history shows it.
00:41:21.000 Iran, how was Iran overthrown?
00:41:22.000 They overthrew the democracy in this way.
00:41:25.000 How did even the monarchy get overthrown?
00:41:27.000 They got overthrown because they started a printing press and then people had issues with the monarchy.
00:41:32.000 And again, that was because of American-Israeli intervention.
00:41:35.000 So you can have a destabilization from foreign actors.
00:41:38.000 Hence why the United States and the United Kingdom have been so...
00:41:43.000 So specific about not having a foreign intervention, it's why you guys want to ban TikTok, right?
00:41:47.000 Because of foreign intervention.
00:41:48.000 Why not be chill about it?
00:41:49.000 Because you think the foreign intervention can cause destabilization in a country.
00:41:53.000 So every country knows that external forces are able to and do try and destabilize a country.
00:41:59.000 And that doesn't mean that the country is weak.
00:42:01.000 Sometimes a country could be like 50-50.
00:42:03.000 You could have a country which, for example, in Turkey where you've got people like Erdogan who's more towards Islamic ideals, for example, or you've got the secularists.
00:42:09.000 That country, if America wanted to basically do it and they tried to do it with Golan and so on and so forth, they could basically push it to have it being overthrown.
00:42:18.000 So this can happen quite easily.
00:42:20.000 Okay.
00:42:21.000 I'll go to the next topic now, unless you had something that you want to follow up on that one.
00:42:25.000 Who started this one?
00:42:26.000 Do you remember?
00:42:27.000 Oh, shit.
00:42:28.000 I think Suleiman started this one.
00:42:29.000 I think I started it, yeah.
00:42:30.000 No, he started it.
00:42:31.000 Because...
00:42:31.000 No, I think it was me.
00:42:32.000 I think it was me.
00:42:32.000 It was him, because Destiny started the first two.
00:42:34.000 Yeah, yeah.
00:42:35.000 There you go.
00:42:37.000 I would just say that if you look at the United States and you compare TikTok to whatever the U.S. was doing in Syria or whatever the U.S. is doing in any other country, TikTok is a massive application that is downloaded on over 200 million phones in the United States.
00:42:53.000 The United States is not doing a propaganda campaign on that level.
00:42:57.000 When we say that the United States is overthrowing all of these Middle Eastern countries, we're talking about these incredibly subtle things that are very hard to source or very hard to find.
00:43:03.000 That is in no way comparable to day talk.
00:43:04.000 And also, the comparison of college students right now on U.S. campuses, they're not about to overthrow the government.
00:43:09.000 It's going to be a drama, it's going to be a meme for a week or two more or however long this lasts, and then they're going to go back to school and everybody's going to forget about it because that's how protests typically go in the United States.
00:43:16.000 And when you say in the United States, like, you know, couldn't...
00:43:19.000 Foreign powers, you know, try to influence you guys.
00:43:21.000 And like, well, couldn't that be happening now?
00:43:22.000 It is happening now, of course.
00:43:22.000 But the United States is a stable democracy.
00:43:24.000 So the idea of this country being cooed by a bunch of college students is a lot less likely because we have stronger institutions here and we guard our democratic principles here much closer than other countries do.
00:43:32.000 Okay.
00:43:33.000 So the next topic, great arguments on both sides, guys.
00:43:35.000 Really great stuff.
00:43:37.000 The second question, and this one might be a little bit more controversial.
00:43:40.000 Is Israel committing a genocide?
00:43:44.000 Is Israel committing a genocide at this very moment?
00:43:48.000 Who wants to take this?
00:43:49.000 You started first last time.
00:43:51.000 So, Desi, you want to kick this one off?
00:43:53.000 Yeah, sure.
00:43:55.000 Reset the clock.
00:43:57.000 I think it's important that when we consider genocide, we have to consider that a country is operating with the highly special intent to completely, or it's a highly special intent to eliminate, in whole or in part, a group of people.
00:44:08.000 And the origination of this hatred, of this desire to eliminate a group of people, can't simply be part of war.
00:44:14.000 It has to be something special.
00:44:16.000 It has to be something different.
00:44:18.000 It's highly specialized when we're talking about genocide.
00:44:20.000 I think that we have to be really careful when we set the precedent of these two people at war, therefore, one person is genociding the other.
00:44:26.000 Because what you essentially do in that case is you rob every single nation of the ability to go to war.
00:44:31.000 You know, was the United States engaged in genocide against Afghanistan?
00:44:34.000 Is Russia engaged in genocide against Ukraine?
00:44:37.000 Did we engage in genocide against Japan when we nuke them or when we firebomb Tokyo?
00:44:43.000 You know, like in every single conflict that you have, there's going to be one group of people trying to defeat another group of people.
00:44:48.000 It can't all be genocide.
00:44:50.000 So I think that if we want to claim that Israel is engaged in genocide, I think that we need to be very careful when we look at that highly special intent.
00:44:55.000 And I think we need to be careful that we're not confusing military actions, which there are a lot of, with genocidal actions.
00:45:01.000 There could be individual people that are engaged in genocidal rhetoric or in genocidal action, and I think if that's happening, those individual people, of course, should be held responsible.
00:45:08.000 But I think that if we look at the overall action of Israel, we see that, like, you know, 30,000 people have been killed and, like, twice as many bombs have been dropped.
00:45:17.000 We see that the amount of warning Israel takes to try to, you know, have people flee from one side to the other.
00:45:21.000 You know, Israel's like, hey, you guys need to leave.
00:45:24.000 Basically two weeks before any military operations began, when they're making phone calls to apartment buildings, when they're spending $500,000 on missiles to, like, precisely target people.
00:45:32.000 The idea that Israel is engaged in some genocidal action while also taking all of these precautions, while opening up more and more humanitarian ways to get food in, you know, while...
00:45:40.000 They're doing all these things.
00:45:41.000 It just doesn't really make sense, other than just, like, screaming the death toll over and over again, or saying, women and children, this number, and here's the death toll, and just screaming that over and over and over again.
00:45:50.000 There is no real argument here that Israel is engaging in genocide against any of the people in Gaza.
00:45:54.000 Okay.
00:45:55.000 Salim, I'll turn it to you.
00:45:56.000 Yeah, he defined genocide correctly, and he said that it's to eliminate a whole or part of a people.
00:46:02.000 And what we're seeing is a genocide.
00:46:04.000 It is the elimination of a part of a people because of their basic ethnicity, which is being Palestinian.
00:46:10.000 It's obviously not based on religion because these guys are killing Christians and Muslims and oppressing Jews in Israel, but that's a separate point.
00:46:17.000 Now, coming back to it, right?
00:46:18.000 The ICJ have also stated that there is a plausible case for genocide.
00:46:23.000 Now, when Destiny's made his argument, he's not explained that, according to his definition then, what would be a genocide, because he's given many examples of certain acts that occurred, but then he's not explained what genocide is, because if he's saying that whenever there is an act of war, there can't be genocide,
00:46:40.000 that is inaccurate.
00:46:42.000 Now, coming back to it, there has been a huge number of people who've been killed, more than 40,000.
00:46:47.000 The vast majority of them are women and children.
00:46:50.000 And he mentioned that they're targeting precisely.
00:46:53.000 If they're targeting precisely, which is what his last point was, And then they're killing so many women and children, that literally tells you that the intent is to kill women and children, unless they're not targeting precisely.
00:47:05.000 In addition to that, they claim that they are trying to go for Hamas.
00:47:08.000 Up to now, we have no idea how many Hamas people have been killed.
00:47:12.000 They initially were getting exposed because there was one to two hundred.
00:47:15.000 So they were claiming that for every one Hamas, there was two hundred.
00:47:19.000 And when they started getting exposed so badly, they changed the numbers.
00:47:22.000 They changed the numbers and now they're like, oh, 13,000 Hamas people have been killed.
00:47:27.000 Let's look at their numbers.
00:47:28.000 If they say 13,000 Hamas people have been killed, when at that point there was 32,000 people had been killed, and the US themselves...
00:47:36.000 Israel's own ally said that 25,000 of them were women and children.
00:47:40.000 According to the argument, all the males are Hamas.
00:47:44.000 They can't even be a male civilian who isn't Hamas.
00:47:47.000 And then many of the women and children are Hamas.
00:47:50.000 Like, how crazy is that?
00:47:51.000 Do they actually think people are that dumb?
00:47:52.000 No.
00:47:53.000 In reality, they are committing a genocide.
00:47:55.000 They are trying to take out an entire people.
00:47:56.000 And they're doing it because they are Palestinian.
00:47:59.000 So there's two essential elements when we're defining genocide.
00:48:02.000 You need the special intent, and then you need to combine it with some action.
00:48:06.000 Eliminating a group of people, in part, is not qualifying as a special intent.
00:48:10.000 The special intent has to be absent any reason for war.
00:48:13.000 It can't just be, I'm going to war with somebody, so I'm trying to blow up, like, you know, part of the military installation, trying to blow up some city.
00:48:17.000 That's not enough.
00:48:18.000 Otherwise, every single war would be genocide.
00:48:20.000 We have to ask ourselves, what is the difference between genocide and war?
00:48:24.000 And if you look at the Israeli operation right now on the Gaza Strip, well, what started it?
00:48:27.000 October 7th, an act of war.
00:48:29.000 Well, what are they doing?
00:48:29.000 Conducting military operations, like you would in war.
00:48:32.000 You know, what are all the planes shooting at?
00:48:33.000 What are all the artillery shooting at?
00:48:35.000 Is it really only 35,000 people have been killed with all of these Israeli munitions, with all of the Israeli airstrikes?
00:48:40.000 Who goes to genocide a group of people while telling all of them to flee first?
00:48:44.000 Who goes to genocide a group of people while saying like, hey, we're going to make phone calls, and hey, we're going to open up humanitarian corridors, and hey, we're going to try to ensure that enough aid is getting in?
00:48:51.000 Who does this?
00:49:04.000 We're good to go.
00:49:10.000 We're good to go.
00:49:14.000 And the chief surgeon of that al-Shifa hospital said they weren't.
00:49:17.000 We found CCTV footage that showed hostages literally being taken into the hospital, with the doctors literally observing it.
00:49:23.000 We saw Amnesty International say in 2014 that they know that al-Shifa hospital is operating an interrogation room.
00:49:28.000 All of these things have been well documented by NGOs, by international humanitarian organizations and everything, but for some reason we all ignore it when we talk about Hamas.
00:49:35.000 Hamas does everything they can to induce civilian death, and they continue to do so because they know that it benefits them internationally because people continue to obsess over the numbers.
00:49:42.000 The ICJ did not say that there is a plausible case of genocide happening right now.
00:49:45.000 They said that it was plausible that the rights of the Palestinians were being infringed based on the genocide convention.
00:49:49.000 The ex-leader, the ex-president of the ICJ literally just did an interview on the BBC clarifying this, that they were not asked to rule on the plausibility of the genocide.
00:49:57.000 There's not even a part in that genocide convention that tells a state not to commit genocide.
00:50:00.000 It's just telling people to protect their rights against it, and it is plausible, meaning that prima facie, if the facts are true, it could be the case that the Palestinians are having their rights to not be genocide and infringed, but the International Court of Just does not make an actual ruling on that.
00:50:12.000 And then also, as a real quick final point, when we say 7,000...
00:50:15.000 Hamas themselves claim that 7,000 to 8,000 people that have been killed were literally militants, and that's the Hamas numbers.
00:50:21.000 If that's true, then the ratio of militants to civilian killed in this war is already exceeding every single prior military conflict, and that's operating in the most densely populated urban environment ever against an enemy militant that is explicitly trying to induce as much civilian death as possible.
00:50:35.000 Yeah.
00:50:36.000 Okay.
00:50:37.000 I'll turn it to you, Sullivan.
00:50:39.000 Right.
00:50:39.000 So, I mean, what you said is accurate, but then again, you applied it inaccurately, right?
00:50:43.000 So you said that there needs to be intent, right?
00:50:45.000 There needs to be action, and then you can actually attack part of the population.
00:50:50.000 So you try and take out part of the population.
00:50:51.000 You try to genocide part of the population.
00:50:53.000 That's what's happened.
00:50:54.000 You have the intent because you admitted that they're precisely targeting people.
00:50:58.000 So the intent is there.
00:50:59.000 They're precisely targeting the children.
00:51:01.000 Their actions have demonstrated that they are precisely targeting We're good to go.
00:51:26.000 When they were doing that, they killed their own hostages in the same manner.
00:51:29.000 When people were in their air trucks, they did the exact same thing.
00:51:33.000 In terms of the booby traps, obviously that's just fake news.
00:51:35.000 In terms of Al Shafar, that was the biggest debunked...
00:51:38.000 I'm surprised that these debunked propaganda pieces are being used here because we've already debunked them.
00:51:43.000 Al Shafar wasn't a military installation.
00:51:45.000 Al Shafar had nothing in it.
00:51:47.000 The most embarrassing thing was some of those videos where they were showing weapons in...
00:51:51.000 In certain areas where they couldn't even be in MRI rooms.
00:51:56.000 So they were, if they've been exposed so badly in terms of Al Shafar, Al Shafar was not a military place.
00:52:01.000 What happened was there were some injured people who were taken there because injured people, irrespective of whether they're civilians or not, will be taken to certain hospitals.
00:52:08.000 And that happens.
00:52:09.000 And that happened to the Israeli hostages as well because they were injured.
00:52:13.000 And then doctors do their oath of looking after them and that's what they did.
00:52:16.000 Unlike the Israeli doctors who were basically supporting this genocide and supporting the attack on hospitals.
00:52:21.000 This attack, this fake news about hospitals only because there was Oprah about the first hospital they attacked and they got exposed so badly.
00:52:28.000 In terms of the ICJ, this is fake news, what you're saying.
00:52:30.000 They literally said it was a plausible case of genocide.
00:52:32.000 And then you said, oh, and they're saying...
00:52:33.000 That the case was there to show that there was a genocide.
00:52:36.000 So you admitted it in your own argument.
00:52:38.000 Hamas' number never said there were 7,000 or 8,000 Hamas people killed.
00:52:42.000 That is the most fakest news ever.
00:52:43.000 Hamas keeps saying that there's not been those numbers.
00:52:46.000 In terms of 35,000, I don't think there's that much.
00:52:47.000 I think there's much more, much more.
00:52:48.000 Okay.
00:52:49.000 And then I think you started this one, right?
00:52:51.000 So yeah, you started this one.
00:52:53.000 So we could get your last side and then your last side and then we'll go to the next question.
00:52:57.000 You guys cool with that?
00:52:58.000 Yeah.
00:52:59.000 Intentionally attacking people is not the special intent to commit genocide.
00:53:02.000 The special intent to commit genocide has to be higher than just attacking a foreign nation that you're at war with.
00:53:07.000 It has to be higher.
00:53:08.000 Again, the crucial part here is you have to be able to differentiate genocide from just war.
00:53:14.000 When you talk about al-Shifa hospital has been debunked, no it hasn't.
00:53:17.000 They tried to debunk the first one.
00:53:18.000 They did it with very little satisfaction.
00:53:21.000 But then Israel literally came back through and found that al-Shifa had been re-inhabited by Islamic Jihad, by Hamas, and they had a whole other fight a month ago here.
00:53:29.000 It lasted two weeks.
00:53:30.000 Were they fighting for two weeks against Palestinian civilians in that hospital?
00:53:34.000 The idea is that they've arrested 900 people as part of their rate, 500 that they've already confirmed as being part of Hamas or being part of Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
00:53:41.000 There's no way that that second siege took two whole weeks if it was just civilians.
00:53:45.000 It doesn't make any sense.
00:53:46.000 It's impossible.
00:53:47.000 We're good to go.
00:54:08.000 We're good to go.
00:54:29.000 Hamas is not actively trying to engage in exactly this type of behavior.
00:54:33.000 And then to say, oh, well, I've never heard of that before.
00:54:35.000 Again, if you trust these international organizations like Amnesty International, Amnesty International has it in part of their report for the 2014 going over a protective edge with that whole military operation.
00:54:45.000 They show that there is an interrogation torture room as part of the al-Shifa hospital.
00:54:49.000 This isn't even contested.
00:54:50.000 And part of these international humanitarian communities anymore.
00:54:52.000 And again, the ex-president of the ICJ came out and said, we did not rule that genocide was plausible.
00:54:59.000 She said that verbatim on the BBC, because that is not what they were tasked with ruling.
00:55:03.000 All right.
00:55:04.000 And then, Suleiman, you can finish it, and then I will, I think you go first for the second question, because Destiny went first on this one, then Destiny will get last word on the next one.
00:55:12.000 All right, go ahead.
00:55:13.000 Right, so coming back to it, right, of course there has to be special intent because the intent needs to be there to do it.
00:55:18.000 That doesn't mean, and what is the intent for?
00:55:20.000 Intent isn't to kill.
00:55:21.000 No one said that.
00:55:22.000 It's the intent for genocide.
00:55:24.000 And we've said that intent was there to have genocide, to do genocide.
00:55:27.000 And the prime example is you admit that they specifically target certain areas as precise attack.
00:55:33.000 If you're precisely attacking and you're killing so many women and children, that demonstrates your intent.
00:55:39.000 In terms of what you mentioned about Hamas, Hamas, look, in terms of October the 7th, they were resisting occupation.
00:55:44.000 And so, again, this is another false notion where you try and make it look like things started on October the 7th.
00:55:49.000 In terms of Al Shafar, the two weeks thing, that is completely fake, right?
00:55:52.000 Because in reality, what happened was they'd completely darkened the area.
00:55:56.000 Nobody knew what happened.
00:55:57.000 What we do know is as soon as it was undarked or we were able to see what actually happened, we saw a scenario where they had killed so many civilians.
00:56:06.000 They had massacred so many people.
00:56:09.000 We saw graves with 200 people, 300 people, 400 people.
00:56:13.000 It was crazy.
00:56:13.000 It was one of the worst massacres we'd ever seen.
00:56:16.000 This history will remember the level of massacre that occurred around the area of Al Shafar.
00:56:21.000 Not specifically Al Shafar Hospital.
00:56:23.000 It wasn't Hamas.
00:56:24.000 These guys went and just absolutely pillaged and destroyed the place.
00:56:27.000 There is, again, zero evidence from people saying that Al Shafar had any facilities.
00:56:31.000 Actually, their videos got exposed.
00:56:33.000 When we looked at the videos, none of them were inside Al Shafar.
00:56:35.000 None of them had actual bases in Al Shafar.
00:56:37.000 The calendar was so embarrassing.
00:56:39.000 They'd created it.
00:56:40.000 The weapons, they brought them in.
00:56:41.000 It was so, so embarrassing.
00:56:45.000 Um...
00:56:46.000 In terms of safe zones, completely fake news that there's only one safe zone.
00:56:49.000 There's been many safe zones.
00:56:50.000 Rafa is an example of a safe zone that was attacked and was killed and many innocent people were killed in safe zones.
00:56:56.000 I posted many videos in terms of people being killed in safe zones.
00:57:00.000 In terms of the WCK that was attacked, it's so embarrassing.
00:57:05.000 It had the logos on there.
00:57:06.000 These guys knew that that was one of the few places that they're going to allow to give aid.
00:57:10.000 They bombed one, then they bombed a second, and then they bombed a third, and they did it, and they killed Americans and British people.
00:57:16.000 This is the level of the genocidal nature of this.
00:57:18.000 They know there's no blowback for their actions.
00:57:20.000 Okay.
00:57:22.000 So, good point.
00:57:23.000 So, the next question we're going to get into, and this one, I think Suleiman's going to kick this one off, and then Destin will get the last word.
00:57:29.000 Is anti-Semitism used to stop free speech?
00:57:34.000 The question again is, or the topic is, is anti-Semitism used to stop free speech?
00:57:40.000 Go ahead, bro.
00:57:41.000 Of course it is!
00:57:43.000 And I hope Destiny's consistent on this because he gave us a whole speech at the beginning about how you could basically attack Islam and there should be no problem with it.
00:57:49.000 We've seen it.
00:57:50.000 The same people who were crying and crying and crying about identity politics are the same people who are literally crying about anti-Semitism.
00:57:59.000 You basically look at the US government saying that anti-Semitism has occurred when hardly any anti-Semitism has occurred in the universities.
00:58:05.000 Again, many of those claims were debunked.
00:58:08.000 What they really don't want, and they've said it and they proved it by the bill that was sent to the House of Congress, they don't want you to call out the state of Israel because as soon as you call out that state, they're going to be exposed.
00:58:16.000 So that's anti-Semitism.
00:58:17.000 You can't Call out the Zionist control of America and Britain, because again, that's going to be anti-Semitism.
00:58:23.000 And what they've done as well with anti-Semitism, they made the parameters so broad that anything can be anti-Semitism.
00:58:29.000 So for example now, and these are the same people who used to cry about identity politics when it comes to racism, when it comes to Islamophobia, when it comes to these various other things.
00:58:36.000 So yeah, anti-Semitism has been used to end free speech.
00:58:40.000 They did it in certain European countries when it was denial of the Holocaust.
00:58:43.000 Why isn't an individual able to have free speech and deny it?
00:58:46.000 And then they did that.
00:58:47.000 In the United States, you guys had about, as I believe it, 32 states that don't even let you freely take part in BDS, which is boycotting Israel.
00:58:55.000 This is the level of propaganda that occurs.
00:58:57.000 And now the university protests have been shut down based on these false accusations of anti-Semitism.
00:59:03.000 You see people being banned on Twitter for this.
00:59:05.000 Elon Musk...
00:59:06.000 Twitter is the most free speech platform.
00:59:08.000 And yet, he's banned from the river to the sea because it's a call for genocide when it clearly isn't.
00:59:13.000 It's interpretation.
00:59:14.000 One side says it is, one side says it isn't.
00:59:16.000 And it's not even against the law.
00:59:18.000 And yet, they made that into illegal.
00:59:21.000 Just based on...
00:59:22.000 Anti-Semitism, they've made it illegal to say that they're attacking the fact that Christ is saying Christ is king is anti-Semitism.
00:59:27.000 They want to edit the Bible.
00:59:28.000 They want to basically make it so that anyone who calls out this Zionist terrorist regime, you basically have a scenario where you're basically given these false accusations of anti-Semitism.
00:59:37.000 I say...
00:59:38.000 Stop that.
00:59:39.000 Allow free speech.
00:59:41.000 In a country where the First Amendment was created, where they allowed free speech, they're destroying the very country.
00:59:45.000 As he said, the best country for a reason, but now it no longer is going to be.
00:59:49.000 Okay, Destiny, I'll turn it to you.
00:59:50.000 Is anti-Semitism used to stop free speech?
00:59:52.000 I think to some extent it can be.
00:59:54.000 I think that all identity politics is.
00:59:55.000 But this isn't unique to Jews.
00:59:57.000 Again, Muslims will threaten to kill you if you post pictures of Muhammad on Twitter.
01:00:00.000 There's not a bigger attack against freedom of speech than somebody threatening to behead you because you drew a picture of their favorite superhero.
01:00:05.000 I think that's pretty insane.
01:00:06.000 I think that one of the things I don't like when we talk about anti-Semitism a lot, and people do this a lot, is people aren't honest about their positions.
01:00:13.000 I think in the United States, you should be allowed to be anti-Semitic.
01:00:15.000 That's part of your constitutional God-given right.
01:00:16.000 You can be a Nazi.
01:00:17.000 You can be an anti-Semite.
01:00:18.000 You can be a pro-Semite.
01:00:19.000 You can be whatever you want.
01:00:20.000 In the United States, that's protected speech.
01:00:21.000 You might get banned on some platforms for it, but you have the right to say those things.
01:00:24.000 That being said, there'll be people that will walk around and say things like, oh, no, I'm not anti-Semitic.
01:00:28.000 I just think that there's a reason why Jews have been kicked out of every single country they've ever been a part of, and I think that Jews are also controlling the United States of America, and I think that Jews in the United States of America also have more allegiance to Israel, and I think that Jews were actually behind 9-11, and I think that Jews actually have special warnings.
01:00:38.000 And it's like, okay, well, okay.
01:00:39.000 At some point, whatever you call anti-Zionist basically has a one-to-one overlap with whatever anti-Semitism is.
01:00:44.000 At least own it, right?
01:00:45.000 I'll say I'm Islamophobic when I fight against Muslims online.
01:00:47.000 If I was going to fight against Jews online over their dumb religious shit, I'd say I'm anti-Jewish or whatever the fuck.
01:00:51.000 But don't sit here and pretend that, oh no, it's just me doing my talking points and I had no idea that using these phrases was considered anti-Semitic.
01:00:57.000 I had no idea that walking up to a Jew and saying, Christ is king!
01:00:59.000 I don't think any fucking Christian has ever said that until it became popular to use it as a way to bully fucking Jewish people.
01:01:06.000 I grew up Catholic for, I was a Catholic for 12 years.
01:01:08.000 I don't remember hearing all the screaming about Christ as king.
01:01:11.000 Yeah, and as far as the university protesters go, listen, you have a right on the university to protest, but it is a university.
01:01:18.000 You have to do it in an appropriate manner and place, or time, manner, and place, meaning you're not allowed to set up encampments for weeks and weeks, or days and days.
01:01:24.000 You're not allowed to block students from going to class.
01:01:26.000 You're not Occupy.
01:01:49.000 Yeah, occupy Wall Street.
01:01:50.000 Like, no.
01:01:51.000 I mean, like, people are...
01:01:52.000 When situations get violent, they get drawn out.
01:01:54.000 Eventually, the cops are going to come in and they're going to shut it down.
01:01:56.000 That just happens with every single protest.
01:01:57.000 It's going to continue to happen with every single protest.
01:01:58.000 It doesn't mean that there's some unique violation of your freedom of speech.
01:02:01.000 Okay.
01:02:03.000 Suleiman, I'll turn it to you.
01:02:04.000 Yeah, I've already answered this whole Muslims will kill you and behead you, yeah?
01:02:06.000 I've just given many examples within the Zionists who do the exact same thing, but in a much worse manner.
01:02:11.000 And disproportionately, it's a lot worse.
01:02:12.000 Now, in terms of what he said, this is the propaganda that Zayos do, right?
01:02:16.000 They want to make it so that...
01:02:18.000 Anti-Zionism is the same as anti-Judaism, which is not, right?
01:02:22.000 Judaism is not the same as Zionism.
01:02:23.000 There's Jewish people in Israel that are oppressed.
01:02:25.000 But yes, the Zionist control, and remember, there's much more Christian Zionists than there is Jewish Zionists, of the United States is prevalent.
01:02:32.000 And these people want to end it and make it the same because they want to make it look like that you're being anti-Semitic so that you basically have a scenario where you're put in prison or they take away your job.
01:02:40.000 Or they take away their career.
01:02:41.000 You saw that very first Harvard letter where there was an uproar just because the students were calling out the treatment of the Palestinians and they said they're not going to get a job.
01:02:47.000 They're not going to get a career.
01:02:49.000 So this is what happens.
01:02:50.000 In terms of if somebody says that the Jews could chuck them out of 109 countries, look, this is a position that I don't agree with, but...
01:02:57.000 It is a position that people should be allowed to have.
01:02:59.000 They should be able to have that position.
01:03:00.000 You shouldn't be able to stifle free speech.
01:03:02.000 And this is what's happened by the Zionist structure because the difference is he can be Islamophobic and he's got no problem.
01:03:07.000 He's on YouTube.
01:03:08.000 He's on everywhere.
01:03:08.000 But he can't do the same thing to Zionists.
01:03:10.000 Hence why we moved to Rumble when we were talking about this.
01:03:13.000 So he knows it.
01:03:13.000 I know it.
01:03:14.000 We all know it.
01:03:15.000 And people could get banned.
01:03:17.000 I've been banned of Buy Me A Coffee.
01:03:18.000 We've been banned of many platforms for this reason, right?
01:03:21.000 Because this is what they do.
01:03:22.000 And it's not just platforms.
01:03:23.000 It's law.
01:03:24.000 Denying the Holocaust is law.
01:03:26.000 You look in this, how is the Congress that they're going to pass?
01:03:28.000 That's going to be law.
01:03:28.000 So it's a legal aspect.
01:03:30.000 Christians, of course, they said Christ is king.
01:03:31.000 This is their position.
01:03:32.000 They're like, well, this is ridiculous to say that this isn't part of Christianity.
01:03:34.000 Also, having the belief that basically the Jews killed Jesus, they're allowed to have that position because, again, this is their ideological position.
01:03:40.000 You shouldn't have no issue with it whatsoever.
01:03:42.000 In terms of the university protests, the reason they banned it has nothing to do with certain regulations that were not met is because the Zionists were being exposed.
01:03:49.000 Everyone was talking about it in the media.
01:03:50.000 There was going to be a huge amount of movement.
01:03:53.000 And they had to stop it.
01:03:53.000 This is very different to the BLM. What did they do with BLM? They allowed it to cascade.
01:03:58.000 They allowed it to grow.
01:03:59.000 They were burning cars.
01:04:00.000 They allowed it to go on for so long.
01:04:01.000 And yet these university students sitting peacefully, they basically banned them.
01:04:05.000 Alright.
01:04:05.000 Turn to Destiny then.
01:04:07.000 And then if you guys want to do one more round, we can.
01:04:09.000 Like a fire round.
01:04:10.000 And then we can go to the next question.
01:04:12.000 This is heavy, man.
01:04:12.000 Holy smokes.
01:04:13.000 Yo, shout out to...
01:04:15.000 You guys are both making fantastic.
01:04:16.000 We're getting a lot of content as well because we're speaking so fast.
01:04:19.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:04:19.000 You guys are...
01:04:19.000 It's like a rap battle.
01:04:21.000 Hold on.
01:04:21.000 We got over here Kendrick Lamar.
01:04:23.000 We got a drink over here.
01:04:24.000 This is probably one of the best well done...
01:04:27.000 One of the best debates, man.
01:04:28.000 Drake or Kendrick Lamar?
01:04:29.000 You know, obviously, like I told y'all before, I'm just moderating it, man, making it fair for both parties so they can get their points because I think it's really important to be able to have these ideas and hash them out together.
01:04:39.000 So, Destiny, it's on you.
01:04:41.000 I'll give you your two minutes and then we'll go to Suleiman if you guys want.
01:04:45.000 We can do a fire round if you guys want to finish it off.
01:04:47.000 Holy.
01:04:48.000 Yeah, I mean, I would be opposed to making anti-Zionism or anti-Semitism illegal in the United States.
01:04:54.000 I don't think anybody's making it illegal in the United States.
01:04:55.000 I haven't seen that.
01:04:56.000 I don't think the bell in Congress is making it illegal.
01:04:58.000 I think it is providing it the same protections that you have for, you know, attacking somebody for their sexuality or attacking somebody for their religion if you're like an employer or if you like own a house and you're trying to rent a house to people.
01:05:06.000 I don't think they're making anti-Zionism illegal.
01:05:08.000 There's this talking point again that you can attack Islam but you can't attack Judaism.
01:05:13.000 The reality is nobody really cares that much about the religion of Judaism.
01:05:18.000 Most Jews in Israel don't care about the religion of Judaism.
01:05:22.000 The people that are going to care the most are going to be those in the fucking West Bank They're trying to set up their little settlements and everything.
01:05:27.000 They're not going to be online fighting with you on Twitter.
01:05:29.000 Again, I can go online.
01:05:29.000 I go on Twitter and I can shit on Jews in like 15 different ways and nobody gives a fuck because more of the crazy aspects of the Jewish religion, nobody actually cares about.
01:05:36.000 Like, most Jewish people won't defend it.
01:05:37.000 Whereas if I go online and I start talking about A.E. Sheriff, I start like putting pictures of Mohammed online, I've got like 15 million death threats in my inbox.
01:05:44.000 But yeah, I mean, to reiterate, like, yeah, you should be able to, if you want to deny the Holocaust, if you want to deny, you know, Zionists their right to a country, if you want to say all those things in the United States, it should be allowed to be done and I believe it It's still a lot to be done, and there's no way to stop that unless the First Amendment is somehow revoked in the United States.
01:05:58.000 If you're upset because people are banning you from certain platforms for it, then I would say that, yeah, I mean, that is what the platforms are doing, but I mean, that's not a freedom of speech violation.
01:06:07.000 And I don't even know if I'm fully bought into this idea that Zionists get more protection than anything else.
01:06:11.000 It feels like most of the media coverage has been insanely pro-Palestinian.
01:06:14.000 If you look at Twitch, for instance, the platform that I'm banned from, Hassan Piker is literally the face of Of fucking Twitch politics.
01:06:20.000 And Hamas Piker is literally an avowed supporter of terrorist attacks against Israel, of the destruction of the Israeli state, and will support, you know, the Houthis and the Hamas and the Palestinians in any way, shape, or form.
01:06:29.000 And I'm sure when you go on YouTube, you find a ton of pro-Palestinian support as well.
01:06:32.000 So this idea that you don't have support for Palestinians that's allowed to flourish on these social media platforms isn't even true in and of itself.
01:06:39.000 All right, so if you guys want, we can have a fire run here where you guys can respond to each other and whatever.
01:06:45.000 Did I go first then?
01:06:46.000 Yeah, because I think you went first.
01:06:47.000 Oh, did I? Yeah.
01:06:48.000 No, no, wait, because I had the last word last time, so he should get the last word this time.
01:06:51.000 And then we can ask him to do a fire run.
01:06:52.000 He should get his...
01:06:53.000 I can't remember.
01:06:55.000 I thought he went first.
01:06:55.000 No, no, he was supposed to get the last word on this one.
01:06:57.000 No, I think it was me.
01:06:58.000 But I actually can't remember.
01:06:58.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:06:59.000 It is him.
01:06:59.000 Okay.
01:07:02.000 No, because Destiny went first the first time.
01:07:04.000 Because anti-Semitism, I think I talked first about why anti-Semitism isn't free speech.
01:07:08.000 Okay, yeah.
01:07:08.000 So if you go first, that means he finishes it.
01:07:10.000 Wait, am I right?
01:07:11.000 Oh, yeah, you're right.
01:07:12.000 So, yeah, Destiny was supposed to get the last one on this one, which he just did just now.
01:07:16.000 But if you guys want, because I saw that you wanted to address something, you can do a fire round while I put two minutes on the clock, and you guys can go back and forth.
01:07:23.000 30 seconds, that'll be probably easier.
01:07:24.000 Yeah, go for it.
01:07:25.000 Yeah, I was gonna give three minutes for both y'all to go ahead and actually be able to both speak.
01:07:30.000 Oh, discuss it, right?
01:07:31.000 Yeah, you can actually openly discuss it.
01:07:32.000 I'll put three minutes on the clock.
01:07:34.000 We'll fire around for this.
01:07:35.000 You guys can both just...
01:07:36.000 Look, I think we're in agreement, right?
01:07:37.000 We don't want censorship, right?
01:07:38.000 I think we're both in agreement.
01:07:39.000 It doesn't matter if it's Judaism, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia.
01:07:41.000 It doesn't matter what it is.
01:07:42.000 I believe you can, if you speak about things, you can do it.
01:07:44.000 Like, even your point about Aisha, I wanted to debate you on it because I knew your points were weak, yeah?
01:07:48.000 So I would much rather debate you than do drama.
01:07:49.000 So I completely agree with you in that regard.
01:07:52.000 But people do care about Judaism.
01:07:53.000 This is a misnomer.
01:07:54.000 Like, when you basically attack Judaism online, you get basically hate speech.
01:07:58.000 Even on Twitter, we had hate speech violations for certain Jewish practices.
01:08:00.000 Or, for example, Jewish rabbis having protections in Israel after committing, for example, rape or paedophilia or whatever it may be.
01:08:06.000 So we got warnings on that.
01:08:07.000 People, even when we looked at, like, for example, Jewish rabbis I've been in charge of Pornhub, I believe.
01:08:12.000 There was basically a huge amount of claims of anti-Semitism.
01:08:14.000 So that does happen on that.
01:08:16.000 So in terms of the reason you don't shit on Jews is because you know that it's somewhere you don't want to go down, right?
01:08:22.000 You know it's the issues in the cause.
01:08:23.000 We know the risks we take when we attack Zionism.
01:08:25.000 I mean, to be clear, I shit on Jews if they're there to shit on, but like most of what you're bringing up, like they do like Jews control all of porn.
01:08:31.000 Like these aren't even attacks on the Jewish- No, I didn't sell porn.
01:08:32.000 I said porn hub.
01:08:33.000 Okay.
01:08:34.000 Yeah, whatever.
01:08:34.000 These aren't even attacks on Judaism.
01:08:37.000 This is just like- Because if it's a rabbi doing it, right?
01:08:39.000 It is.
01:08:39.000 It is.
01:08:40.000 How?
01:08:40.000 Because if it's a clergyman, a clergyman represents the religion.
01:08:43.000 So if an imam did it, it doesn't mean it would have a bit- people would think that you're basically attacking an imam and you're trying to attack Muslims or Islam in a way.
01:08:50.000 So it would be like that.
01:08:51.000 So it is- When people attack priests for meddling with little boys, I don't think they're necessarily attacking their religion.
01:08:55.000 You don't think they're trying to basically expose the religion?
01:08:59.000 No, I disagree.
01:08:59.000 I don't think so.
01:09:00.000 I think too.
01:09:00.000 And in terms of Hassan Piker, I don't know who he is, but I don't know his positions.
01:09:04.000 But what I can say is there is a significant amount of content that is not allowed in those platforms.
01:09:09.000 And in Twitter, Twitter is a prime example because when you look at the level of de-boosting that happens on pro-Palestinian accounts compared to Zionist accounts, it's significant.
01:09:16.000 The only difference is the whole world is with Palestine.
01:09:17.000 Wait, you think the de-boosting on Twitter is happening for Palestinians?
01:09:21.000 Yes, I can give you my example.
01:09:22.000 So I get Much more engagement than Zio accounts.
01:09:25.000 I'm like the biggest political engaged account.
01:09:27.000 But if you look at my views, they're much more lower.
01:09:29.000 So it means the algorithm is somehow not pushing me even though my engagement is much higher.
01:09:32.000 Isn't that literally all open source now ever since Elon Musk took over?
01:09:34.000 Did you literally see what gets boosted?
01:09:35.000 You can't see the reasoning for this.
01:09:37.000 Two minutes?
01:09:37.000 You can't see the reasoning for this.
01:09:38.000 Okay.
01:09:39.000 I don't think any of these are being de-boosted.
01:09:40.000 I think there's plenty of pro-Palestinian accounts that are getting lots of engagement.
01:09:43.000 You're not understanding.
01:09:43.000 I'm not saying that they're completely shadow banned.
01:09:45.000 I'm saying that, let's take my example, right?
01:09:47.000 So the likes, retweets, and shares on mine are much more than any other account on Twitter in politics.
01:09:51.000 And yet the views are lower.
01:09:52.000 And a Zayo account gets hardly any engagement, but the views are significant.
01:09:55.000 So why is the accounts getting the view when mine's not?
01:09:57.000 As an example, mine's just an example of many pro-Palestinian accounts.
01:10:00.000 And the reason is because there is some, and by the way, Twitter is still the best one.
01:10:02.000 It's just I know how Twitter works, so I can give that as an example.
01:10:05.000 So there is a de-booster just to maybe balance it out because the whole world is with Palestine.
01:10:09.000 I think the more likely thing is that some things are being botted and some things aren't.
01:10:12.000 The idea that there are people who work at Twitter that are trying to sneak code in to just de-boost certain things.
01:10:16.000 There are so many engineers that would be looking at this.
01:10:18.000 I think that people that are private investors in Twitter would be like, why are you doing this?
01:10:21.000 I don't know if this is even good for our wallets to be getting rid of organically viewer-generating engagement content.
01:10:27.000 Everybody complains that they're getting de-boosted when they're doing good enough.
01:10:32.000 They've done it on YouTube.
01:10:32.000 I don't think there's any evidence of this actually happening.
01:10:34.000 It's been shown since the day.
01:10:36.000 That's time.
01:10:36.000 That's three minutes.
01:10:37.000 Shout out to you guys for being so goddamn civil.
01:10:42.000 Okay, so the next question.
01:10:44.000 Okay, and they're getting spicy as we go here.
01:10:48.000 Should Zionists be able to hold government office?
01:10:51.000 Again, the question is, should Zionists be able to hold government office?
01:10:57.000 I'll go first because he'll know my argument then.
01:10:59.000 It'll be fair for him to respond.
01:11:01.000 Okay.
01:11:01.000 I think that'll be fair on him.
01:11:03.000 Dustin, are you okay with that?
01:11:05.000 As long as you're okay with it.
01:11:06.000 I'm doing it for his benefit because then he knows my argument because I'm probably going to make the...
01:11:09.000 Okay, so if you go first, that means he's going to end again.
01:11:11.000 You okay with that?
01:11:11.000 Yeah, yeah, I'm sure.
01:11:12.000 Okay, go ahead.
01:11:12.000 Take it away.
01:11:13.000 I'll turn the clock on.
01:11:15.000 So, look, I don't think...
01:11:17.000 So Zionists, so if Zionist, if the definition of Zionist is somebody who just wants a state of Israel, of course, they should hold office, right?
01:11:23.000 What the problem is, is what I believe that someone shouldn't hold office in the United States is when they have Jew...
01:11:30.000 A citizenship.
01:11:31.000 So they basically don't have loyalty.
01:11:32.000 You mean Israeli citizenship, right?
01:11:34.000 No, no.
01:11:34.000 Any Jewel citizenship.
01:11:36.000 But that includes Israeli.
01:11:37.000 Oh, I'm so sorry.
01:11:37.000 You're saying dual citizenship?
01:11:39.000 Yeah, yeah.
01:11:39.000 Oh, it sounds like Jew citizenship.
01:11:40.000 Oh, no, no, no.
01:11:41.000 I'm sorry.
01:11:42.000 I just took my 30 seconds away.
01:11:43.000 Don't put my name on a missile.
01:11:45.000 I'll give him an extra 10.
01:11:46.000 Don't worry.
01:11:46.000 Don't put my name on a missile again.
01:11:47.000 It's the one that you understand, so you're good.
01:11:49.000 Don't worry.
01:11:50.000 I'll give you extra time, Solomon.
01:11:51.000 Go ahead, please.
01:11:51.000 So, dual citizenship, right?
01:11:56.000 Because then you basically got loyalty to two different countries.
01:11:58.000 Now you could be Israeli, you could be like, for example, they make the same arguments about Ilhan Omar as well.
01:12:02.000 And because your loyalty should be the United States and you shouldn't have someone, for example, if someone's got loyalty to Russia and the United States, there's going to be problems with that loyalty.
01:12:08.000 But then in addition to that, and I make a further argument with that, and that is this, that somebody who holds the opportunity for a right to return also should not hold office in the United States and the United Kingdom.
01:12:19.000 And the reason for that is because someone can be Hold the opportunity to have right to return.
01:12:24.000 They can destroy the United States.
01:12:26.000 They can destroy the United Kingdom.
01:12:27.000 They can basically use it for the interest of Israel.
01:12:30.000 And then they can go back to Israel and based on their right to return.
01:12:34.000 Now your retort that will be, that's anti-Semitic because now you're basically saying no Jewish person can hold office.
01:12:39.000 And my retort that is, if you stop the Israeli...
01:12:43.000 A supremacist ideology of right to return, then you wouldn't have that problem.
01:12:47.000 And so therefore, my argument is very simple, and it is.
01:12:50.000 If you have dual citizenship, you shouldn't hold office.
01:12:52.000 If you have right to return, you shouldn't hold office.
01:12:54.000 And that way you know that the American interests are being put first and the interests of Britain are being put first.
01:13:00.000 And the same problems you have in the United States, we have the exact same problems in Britain.
01:13:03.000 So any argument I'm making there, you can apply to my country as well.
01:13:09.000 I think it's in the U.S. Constitution that you cannot be a citizen of another country, so I'm okay with that in terms of the presidency.
01:13:21.000 In terms of barring every single federal office from anybody having dual citizenship, Um, I don't have like super strong feelings on it, but I feel a little bit weird about it.
01:13:30.000 I think that's probably okay if dual citizens are, you know, like members of Congress.
01:13:33.000 Maybe, maybe not, but I'm like 51, 49.
01:13:35.000 I wouldn't care that much on it.
01:13:37.000 Um, in terms of saying you can't be a citizen if you have like a right of return, well, I don't think that really works.
01:13:42.000 One, we don't really have the right to dictate in other countries.
01:13:44.000 No, not a citizen to hold office.
01:13:45.000 To hold office.
01:13:46.000 Yeah, but I'm saying if giving the right of return automatically disbarks you from holding office, it would be really strange because then effectively any country could just shut down whoever is president.
01:13:56.000 Let's say we find out that Biden is part Irish or something, and all of a sudden the Republic of Ireland is like, actually, we're going to give right of return to every Irish person.
01:14:03.000 Does Biden have to renounce his Irishness or something?
01:14:05.000 Or couldn't you mess with any single member in office if a right of return is granted?
01:14:10.000 It just seems like a really big clusterfuck of issues.
01:14:13.000 Yeah, I don't have a strong position for, like, if people have dual citizenship, you know, maybe it's questionable, like, do we really want somebody voting on whether or not we should go to war with the country if they hold a citizenship in that country?
01:14:23.000 I think you can make, like, strong arguments on either side of that.
01:14:25.000 Like, should somebody have to revoke their citizenship just for running for office?
01:14:29.000 Would this go all the way down to, like, the governor and the state assembly level?
01:14:32.000 Like, maybe just for, you know, federal office, we would say this, but, yeah, I don't have strong opinions on this one or another, but I I don't agree with, like, if they've got right of return, every single Jew is disbarred from holding office, because then any country that offers a right of return means that, like, anybody from these types of countries wouldn't be allowed to hold office.
01:14:45.000 Okay.
01:14:46.000 Your response to that?
01:14:47.000 So, um...
01:14:49.000 In terms of Congress, the problem with your argument is that you're saying that the US president can't have dual citizenship, but then people who are Congress, people who are part of the senators, can essentially, who decide policy, who decide if you're going to go to war in certain aspects, in terms of policy,
01:15:04.000 procedure, whatever it may be.
01:15:05.000 The things that can cause the destruction of the United States, if they put certain policies that internally can cause the destruction of the entire fabric of Western society, for example, certain people would make the argument, as an example, certain liberal ideas, Then you would basically be able to destroy a foreign nation based on those ideas.
01:15:21.000 Hence why I agree with the constitution in terms of the president and I think it should be cascaded down.
01:15:26.000 In terms of the right to return, yeah, look, there will be problems with it for sure, right?
01:15:30.000 Because it's not a clean position.
01:15:32.000 The problem is there's only one nation that has this supremacist ideology, which is Israel, where you have a right to return.
01:15:37.000 It's merely because of your inherent race.
01:15:41.000 And so for that reason, you have a problem where someone can go to the United States and destroy the nation and then use the right to return to go back.
01:15:49.000 And this is the problem we have.
01:15:50.000 And that's why to safeguard the country.
01:15:53.000 To safeguard the country from foreign intervention, which is something that Americans seem to be caring about.
01:15:57.000 They talk about Russian intervention and Chinese intervention, but for some reason they don't care about Israeli intervention.
01:16:02.000 A country who literally is forcing the United States to go to war, is forcing the United States to basically have less security, have more financial issues and so on and so forth, then I think when it becomes that major...
01:16:13.000 You need to know that whoever is making decisions, they're making those decisions solely based on American interests and for the betterment of the United States.
01:16:20.000 Because I'm all for, like, I agree with you at the beginning, there's a reason America is the best country in the world, and it should be left to do so, not without foreign intervention.
01:16:27.000 Okay.
01:16:28.000 A little bit of time on the clock with that one.
01:16:30.000 What's your response to that, Destiny?
01:16:31.000 Yeah, again, I don't have strong feelings on most of this.
01:16:34.000 The strongest one, just on the right of return, I don't know every country's immigration policy, but I'm sure there are other countries that allow you the ability to immigrate if you've got some ancestry or if you've got some ethnic tie to some particular thing.
01:16:45.000 I'm sure that's the case.
01:16:46.000 I just don't have every policy on hand.
01:16:47.000 I know that, like, in the United States, if you've got parents that are U.S. citizens, you've got a right to go to the United States.
01:16:52.000 If you're born on a U.S. base anywhere, you get a U.S. passport.
01:16:54.000 But I don't know every single country's immigration policy.
01:16:56.000 I wish I did.
01:16:58.000 Nationality is different to risk, though.
01:17:00.000 Yeah, sure.
01:17:01.000 But again, I mean, what is the nationality you have if both your parents are American, right?
01:17:06.000 We don't have a race that we can have to call an American race.
01:17:11.000 So, yeah, I don't know.
01:17:12.000 Also, I mean, yeah, no, I don't know.
01:17:14.000 I feel like other countries here probably have other types of ability to return depending upon your ethnic background or religious background.
01:17:20.000 I don't know every country.
01:17:21.000 Okay.
01:17:22.000 Alright, so we'll move on to the next topic here.
01:17:25.000 The big one.
01:17:26.000 Yeah, this is a big one here, and you guys obviously are definitely going to disagree with, and I'm glad we're on Rumble on this one.
01:17:33.000 Was October 7th a military operation or a terrorist attack?
01:17:38.000 Again, the question is, or the topic is, was October 7th a military operation or a terrorist attack?
01:17:46.000 I'll take it to, I think you started last time, so Destiny, you can start on this one, and we'll do a fire run at the end of this one, and I'll let you take it.
01:17:56.000 Yeah, a military operation seeks to accomplish military goals.
01:17:59.000 If you're doing an invasion and you're a military, there's probably some military goal you're trying to accomplish.
01:18:04.000 Hamas very clearly had no military goal they were trying to accomplish.
01:18:06.000 The goal was to incite terror in the citizens.
01:18:08.000 That's why thousands of rockets were launched at the beginning of the invasion.
01:18:11.000 That's why when they cut through and they started going into Israel proper, they hit up kibbutzes, some of which had nothing to do with the military.
01:18:16.000 They went to that Nova festival and they killed, raped, and took hostages from tons of people there.
01:18:20.000 These people didn't present any sort of actual...
01:18:26.000 We're good to go.
01:18:52.000 Response to this with a war.
01:18:54.000 Okay.
01:18:56.000 All right, with another minute to spare, Suleman, let's go with you.
01:18:59.000 Yeah, look, it was a military operation, right?
01:19:02.000 You don't need to be a military to conduct a military operation.
01:19:05.000 They're not allowed to have a military, right?
01:19:06.000 So what the actual target was to go to do a military operation, the kibbutzes did hold military personnel, hence why that was their target.
01:19:16.000 The Nova Festival was never meant to be there.
01:19:18.000 It was extended by a day without anybody knowing it.
01:19:21.000 They were meant to go to the kibbutz, get the Israeli hostages, military personnel, and swap them for the Palestinian hostages that are kept in Israeli prisons.
01:19:30.000 And they are the same, because in reality many of them have not been held trial, they've basically been kept there, and they've basically been abused.
01:19:36.000 The only difference is when the state of Israel does it, it's called prisoners, and when basically Palestinian does it, or Hamas does it, it's called hostages.
01:19:43.000 That's the only difference.
01:19:44.000 It's just a difference in language.
01:19:46.000 Look, raped, that is the biggest fake news ever.
01:19:49.000 Like, this mass rape propaganda has been debunked.
01:19:51.000 There's no evidence for this whatsoever.
01:19:53.000 I would like Destiny to provide evidence of there have been an actual real evidence of rape.
01:19:58.000 Because this is just like fake news that's been debunked.
01:20:00.000 Just like the 40 beheaded babies that we debunked.
01:20:02.000 Just like any baby being killed by Israel, we debunked.
01:20:05.000 So all of this has been debunked.
01:20:07.000 They didn't plan to take 200 hostages.
01:20:09.000 It's actually the opposite.
01:20:11.000 They did not expect...
01:20:23.000 We're good to go.
01:20:32.000 We're expected to have such a multitude of hostages.
01:20:35.000 And remember, all of our arguments are based on Israeli news.
01:20:38.000 So really, the arguments are much stronger because this is even by their own news, they're making these arguments.
01:20:43.000 One thing I appreciate what Destiny said is that they wanted to kill, they wanted to go after the Israelis, the state of Israel.
01:20:48.000 And he is very much accurate in that because he didn't say Jews, because in reality, it was an attack on the state as opposed to a people because the Hamas charter is very clear that they don't have no issues with Jewish people.
01:20:58.000 Okay.
01:20:59.000 I'll turn it to you.
01:21:01.000 And again, the topic is, was October 7th a military operation or a terrorist attack?
01:21:07.000 Yeah, so the idea that the Nova Festival was moved today, this is a multi-day festival.
01:21:10.000 I mean, you could look at all the flyers beforehand.
01:21:12.000 It's not like this was just one day.
01:21:13.000 And also, the idea that it was moved and nobody knew, if that was the case, then how did the party people know to go to the festival?
01:21:18.000 That doesn't make any sense.
01:21:20.000 And also, when you're paragliding in and you see a bunch of people partying, I mean, like, what are you thinking?
01:21:23.000 Like, are you radioing back to base?
01:21:24.000 Well, Mohammed, I don't know what to do.
01:21:26.000 There's a bunch of partygoers here.
01:21:26.000 Oh, fuck.
01:21:27.000 I guess we just have to fucking kill them all.
01:21:28.000 I didn't know they'd be there.
01:21:29.000 Like, take as many houses as possible.
01:21:30.000 Like, mow down as many motherfuckers as you see.
01:21:31.000 Like, we have videos.
01:21:33.000 We say it all comes from the IDF. That's not true.
01:21:35.000 These dumb motherfuckers were recording videos of themselves.
01:21:36.000 You have videos of people walking up and down porta-potties, shooting in with their assault rifle.
01:21:40.000 But maybe they think that there are secret IDF soldiers hiding in those.
01:21:42.000 I don't know.
01:21:42.000 Maybe they operate from porta-potties in Hamas so much that they think the IDF does it as well.
01:21:46.000 The idea of the 40-beheaded baby thing...
01:21:47.000 Wasn't true.
01:21:48.000 Israel never said it.
01:21:49.000 This was a misreport by the media.
01:21:50.000 If you try to trace down where that original claim came from, it originated from Twitter.
01:21:54.000 It did not come from any Israeli reported source.
01:21:57.000 Again, everybody can go look for it.
01:21:58.000 You can go find it.
01:21:59.000 That original source is not an Israeli source.
01:22:01.000 We can say the mass rape propaganda, but, I mean, we've got tons of eyewitness reports of hearing rapes happening and witnessing rapes happening.
01:22:08.000 Now we've had people that were hostages that have come out who have said that they were sexually assaulted, and they know that other hostages were being sexually assaulted.
01:22:13.000 And we've got a lot of charred bodies and a lot of dead people whose underwear were torn off, bodies where there was blood coming out of the vagina, bodies where the genitalia were shot over and over again.
01:22:23.000 But the problem is that when you've got an invading terrorist organization that is raping you, they also tend to kill you as well.
01:22:28.000 It's pretty hard to get away from that.
01:22:30.000 We're good to go.
01:22:46.000 Yeah, we can say that arguments are made all from the Israeli news, but I mean, whose fault is that?
01:22:50.000 I mean, Hamas isn't open about anything.
01:22:52.000 You know, when we go through and we try to audit Israel on some of these, you know, massacres in the past or some of the bad actions they've done, we can only do that because Israel is a democracy and we have the ability to actually audit them.
01:23:00.000 That's why Israel hosts its own criticism in the form of B'Tselem or in the form of Haaretz.
01:23:04.000 What is the Hamas equivalent to B'Tselem?
01:23:06.000 What is the Hamas equivalent to Haaretz?
01:23:08.000 They don't host any of their own criticism.
01:23:09.000 They throw people on buildings and they kill people who think that they're in opposition to the government there.
01:23:13.000 Two minutes.
01:23:13.000 Okay.
01:23:15.000 All right.
01:23:16.000 I'll turn it over to Suleiman.
01:23:17.000 So in terms of Nova Festival, you misunderstood what I said.
01:23:20.000 I didn't say it was moved.
01:23:21.000 I said it was extended and I provided significant evidence on my Twitter page that it was extended.
01:23:24.000 It was meant to be one day and then it ended up being increased to two and then three days.
01:23:30.000 So that's what I said.
01:23:31.000 So no, they weren't expected.
01:23:32.000 Not because it was moved, but because it was extended.
01:23:34.000 In terms of 40 Beheaded Babies, I've done a thread on this.
01:23:37.000 What you're saying is fake news.
01:23:38.000 It was reported by a journalist.
01:23:39.000 It was also reported by I-24 News, which is...
01:23:43.000 Run by a very good friend of Netanyahu.
01:23:45.000 That's where some of this fake news about 40-beheaded babies was propagated.
01:23:50.000 And by the way, there were zero babies killed.
01:23:52.000 The only people killing babies is the Zionist terrorist regime.
01:23:56.000 So when you mention terrorists, I think you're talking about the Zionist regime.
01:23:59.000 When you said that the hostages were assaulted, there's no evidence of that.
01:24:03.000 Many of the eyewitness testimonies have been exposed.
01:24:05.000 For example, Riz Cohen.
01:24:07.000 He literally said, oh, I heard it.
01:24:09.000 And then later on, he changed his testimony to say, oh, I saw it.
01:24:11.000 There was another guy who said that he saw 29 people being raped, and then again, it got exposed as being a lie.
01:24:16.000 So many of these eyewitness testimonies are by settlers, or basically Israeli liars, who want to perpetuate the lies.
01:24:23.000 Look, they had GoPro cameras.
01:24:24.000 They want you to believe that they had GoPro cameras, and they malfunctioned, that nobody saw anything.
01:24:28.000 So whenever these atrocities occurred, for some reason, the GoPro cameras stopped working.
01:24:32.000 It's the most ridiculous argument ever, but they want you to believe that.
01:24:36.000 In terms of people being charred, People were charred.
01:24:39.000 We saw it.
01:24:39.000 It got charred by Israelis when they were using Apache helicopters.
01:24:42.000 As an example, 200 Palestinians were killed, or as they say, Hamas people, or the resistance were killed, and they basically counted them as Israeli numbers, and then later they found out, no, they weren't Israeli, they were Palestinian.
01:24:52.000 So that's how they were killed.
01:24:54.000 They were killed their own people as well as they killed them.
01:24:56.000 And this is the problem.
01:24:57.000 The Israelis killed many of their own people because they lost their minds when they came there.
01:25:01.000 This is the problem that they don't want to speak about.
01:25:04.000 So that's the thing about the time.
01:25:06.000 And in terms of Israelis, you can't trust anything.
01:25:07.000 They lie and lie and lie.
01:25:08.000 Remember when they were about Shirin Abu Akleh, they claimed that they didn't kill her.
01:25:11.000 And then later on, this got exposed, that they did actually kill her.
01:25:14.000 And it's only when it got exposed.
01:25:15.000 So yeah, you can't trust the Israeli news.
01:25:17.000 They lie until they get exposed.
01:25:18.000 My argument about Israel was that if we actually had independent sources, the situation would be much worse.
01:25:24.000 So even with Israeli sources, the lies are being exposed.
01:25:26.000 Okay.
01:25:28.000 Yeah, again, I've never heard anything about the festival being extended by one day.
01:25:32.000 It seems like there's a lot of people that were able to stay there even though the festival was extended.
01:25:35.000 But let's assume that all of that was true.
01:25:36.000 Even if it was extended by one day, why kill everybody at the festival?
01:25:39.000 There's no reason for that.
01:25:40.000 If you show up and you come upon a festival and you're like, oh, it's not supposed to be here, why would you start killing them?
01:25:44.000 We've seen the bodies.
01:25:46.000 You know, I... I asked you for the source on that, and I understand we're not going to have sources like right here in the middle of a debate, but that 40-beheaded baby thing did not come from an Israeli source.
01:25:54.000 That's why you said a journalist, and then you said I-24 News.
01:25:58.000 I don't believe that there was an Israeli source for any of that story.
01:26:01.000 A lot of it got spread around on Twitter, but none of this actually came from Israel.
01:26:04.000 None of this came from the government, none of it came from the IDF. It was memes that started to get snowballed on Twitter, and then started to get spread around, and people talked about it, but there was no actual...
01:26:10.000 I think?
01:26:29.000 But that's because it was a three-minute clip that went viral on Twitter that got cut from a larger conversation.
01:26:33.000 If you find the original conversation that exists on Facebook, he literally starts talking about rates right after that three-minute cut.
01:26:37.000 They just didn't include it in the original Twitter video because it was cut down for a time or something.
01:26:41.000 I'm not entirely sure.
01:26:42.000 When we say that we can't trust anything that the IDF says, I mean, we can run with that, but why would I trust anything Hamas says?
01:26:48.000 Hamas literally put out a flyer saying that...
01:26:51.000 We don't kill civilians.
01:26:52.000 We would never do this, despite the fact that dead Hamas soldiers are being found with documents on them, giving them explicit instructions on how to ask for people to take their clothes off, how to ask for people to come with them, or how to take people hostage.
01:27:02.000 And then we've got videos of them taking people hostages.
01:27:04.000 We've got videos of people walking up and down cars seeing charred bodies and seeing dead people in cars.
01:27:08.000 This was way before IDF choppers showed up and started firing.
01:27:11.000 You don't think that any of these Israeli citizens that were walking up and down the highways finding all of the dead bodies, you don't think that any of them would have noticed that there were Apache helicopters that were raining down hellfire on any of the cars?
01:27:19.000 None of this actually happened.
01:27:20.000 There would have been people reporting it.
01:27:21.000 There would have been people posting videos of it.
01:27:23.000 Okay.
01:27:24.000 Turn it to Suleiman.
01:27:24.000 Oh, that's crazy.
01:27:25.000 You're saying there was no Apache helicopters.
01:27:26.000 We literally got the evidence of it.
01:27:28.000 We've got Israeli literal news.
01:27:30.000 Harit's saying that basically in Kibbutz Beri, they start shooting short artillery fire and killed...
01:27:36.000 I think?
01:27:52.000 What you're not understanding is when the Nova Festival was there, they weren't expecting it.
01:27:55.000 So then the plan wasn't there.
01:27:56.000 What they didn't expect was for the Israelis to lose their mind and start attacking them and killing them and basically applying the Hannibal Directive in a mass scale.
01:28:05.000 Hannibal Directive is they kill their own people so that they don't become hostages.
01:28:08.000 That's what happened.
01:28:09.000 So it wasn't Abdul, let's kill it.
01:28:11.000 It was Epstein.
01:28:12.000 Let's not kill these...
01:28:13.000 Let's not kill these...
01:28:14.000 Let's just shoot everyone.
01:28:16.000 Don't let any hostages out because we're going to have to negotiate.
01:28:18.000 That's actually...
01:28:19.000 What happened?
01:28:20.000 In terms of Riz Cohen, I said to you, and it is, his testimony changed.
01:28:24.000 And you mentioned in terms of the hostages held by Hamas.
01:28:30.000 Bro, as soon as the hostages came out, all of them were literally saying they treat us really well, they didn't abuse us, they didn't sexually assault us.
01:28:36.000 And then what happened was, the Israelis were like, what the hell?
01:28:39.000 These Hamases, these guys are making Hamas look good.
01:28:41.000 Like, they're treating them like angels.
01:28:42.000 They're treating them so well.
01:28:43.000 They're giving them food as they're eating food themselves.
01:28:45.000 And then what they did was, when they started releasing hostages, they kept a blockade.
01:28:49.000 And they didn't let them speak to the media for weeks and months to put the propaganda into their minds to control them, to manipulate them and make them lie.
01:28:57.000 That's actually what happened.
01:28:59.000 You talked about Hamas having documents.
01:29:00.000 This is the most ridiculous argument ever.
01:29:01.000 Like, no one believes it's all fake.
01:29:02.000 Like, oh, we were left with a passport.
01:29:04.000 We were left with some documents.
01:29:05.000 Hamas are very clear.
01:29:06.000 The charter is very clear.
01:29:07.000 They have no issue with...
01:29:10.000 In terms of Jews, Christians, or Muslims, their charter is literally saying that they want freedom for the Palestinians.
01:29:16.000 So in reality, the Hamas charter is very clear and their actions are very clear.
01:29:19.000 This was a military attack to save their own people.
01:29:25.000 Okay.
01:29:26.000 And I think, Destiny, you went first on this one, right?
01:29:29.000 Maybe?
01:29:30.000 Yeah.
01:29:30.000 Yeah, I think you did.
01:29:32.000 So Suleiman got the last word.
01:29:33.000 We could do a lightning round if you guys are good.
01:29:35.000 Then I got one more question.
01:29:36.000 Sure.
01:29:37.000 Yeah, real quick.
01:29:38.000 Yeah, we could do a lightning round here.
01:29:39.000 Then that way you guys can go ahead and have the open dialogue with each other.
01:29:42.000 I saw that you guys had some things.
01:29:43.000 You had one too?
01:29:44.000 Yeah.
01:29:44.000 All right.
01:29:45.000 Yeah, for the hostages that came out initially.
01:29:47.000 Yeah, the first hundred hostages that came out didn't say anything about mistreatment, of course, because they only let people out that had family members that were still being held hostage.
01:29:54.000 You're not going to come out and be like, yeah, they're treated like shit in there.
01:29:56.000 I think they're raped everybody.
01:29:57.000 That's not true.
01:29:58.000 A lot of the hostages came out, yes, because they only allowed women and children and families to come out.
01:30:02.000 Some of the hostages were, but some of them weren't.
01:30:04.000 And this was a fake news, but this was what Zionists made.
01:30:06.000 They made the argument that when that woman came out and literally said, we've been treated really well, they were like, oh, husband's still there.
01:30:11.000 And we actually checked it.
01:30:11.000 It was fake news.
01:30:12.000 So this is like the fake news.
01:30:13.000 You don't think there's anything Do you have family members that are still being held from any of the...
01:30:15.000 No, no, I just said some of them work, but some of them are.
01:30:16.000 Even if it's not family members, the fact that you would come out and start talking about the hostages when they release you, wouldn't it make sense to tell...
01:30:21.000 So why are they talking about it now, then?
01:30:22.000 Well, now, because I don't even know if there are any hostages left alive.
01:30:24.000 Israel just tried to do...
01:30:25.000 No, because Israel tried to do a ceasefire where they wanted to trade 40 hostages, and for some reason Israel's coming out of 33, because it sounds like Hamas doesn't even have 40 hostages to trade.
01:30:32.000 Well...
01:30:32.000 Well, the thing is, Israel has killed a lot of their own hostages.
01:30:35.000 That's happened for sure.
01:30:35.000 But in reality, what's happened is, the reason they need to negotiate is because the disagreement, why no ceasefire is agreed, is because Hamas want a permanent ceasefire.
01:30:43.000 Because the last ceasefire, what happened was, when they got their own Palestinian hostages back, even within them seven days, the Zionists took more hostages.
01:30:50.000 So this is the problem.
01:30:51.000 So it's illogical from Hamas' perspective.
01:30:53.000 Hamas has been asking for a 10-year ceasefire, okay?
01:30:55.000 Not a permanent ceasefire, because they want to qualify with 10 years, because they still want to go to war with Israel in the future.
01:30:59.000 But regardless, they don't have the right to ask for it.
01:31:01.000 No, they want a permanent ceasefire.
01:31:01.000 That's not right.
01:31:01.000 They want a permanent ceasefire.
01:31:02.000 You can't ask, you can't capture hostages and then make demands off of having hostages.
01:31:06.000 That's not how military conflict works.
01:31:08.000 And then when you bring up the...
01:31:08.000 No, but that's happened in the past because Israelis have hostages.
01:31:11.000 Previously, what's happened is they've traded one Palestinian hostage for 1,000 Israeli hostages.
01:31:16.000 Wait, hold on.
01:31:17.000 I'm sorry.
01:31:17.000 Wasn't that the exact opposite?
01:31:19.000 Wasn't that the start of 2008 where they had one Israeli hostage and they traded him for 1,000 Palestinians?
01:31:23.000 That's why I'm not.
01:31:24.000 Also, you bring up the attack helicopters.
01:31:27.000 You bring up the attack helicopters.
01:31:28.000 Yes, because war crimes pay off.
01:31:30.000 Yes, that Apache helicopters were shooting.
01:31:32.000 The Israelis were killing little people.
01:31:33.000 That happened in places where there were holdouts from Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad that were still fighting.
01:31:39.000 You bring up Kibbutz Bari.
01:31:39.000 No, no, that's not right.
01:31:40.000 That's not right.
01:31:41.000 Why were there 200 charged Palestinians and 100 charged Israelis?
01:31:45.000 Because they weren't differentiated.
01:31:46.000 They did the Hannibal Directive, and this is from Israeli sources.
01:31:48.000 Israeli sources confirmed that they applied the Hannibal Directive.
01:31:50.000 Nope, they did not, because that Hannibal Directive has never been confirmed.
01:31:53.000 It's in Haaretz.
01:31:54.000 No, the Haaretz article that everybody cites, and I've read the original article on this, because Blumenthal cites it in the great zone.
01:31:58.000 There's not one article, there's many articles.
01:31:59.000 Do you find it strange?
01:32:00.000 Okay, if you're aware of that article- Check my threads.
01:32:01.000 If you're aware of that article, do you think it's strange that the article had that they had fired on some likely Israeli civilians without even putting it on the headline?
01:32:07.000 Wouldn't that seem like a really big story?
01:32:08.000 Say it again?
01:32:09.000 In the article that you're talking about, because the original language is in Hebrew.
01:32:12.000 I don't even know if this was published in English.
01:32:13.000 In the Hebrew, they literally say at one point that they had shot, and there were probably some Israeli people that were still being held by a mosque.
01:32:18.000 Not so many.
01:32:18.000 It was not many.
01:32:19.000 That word was never used.
01:32:20.000 How many were killed in Kibbutz Beri?
01:32:23.000 Total?
01:32:23.000 Or when the IDF came back through?
01:32:25.000 We don't know how many were killed after that.
01:32:28.000 Well, according to Haritz, it was either 118 or 181.
01:32:30.000 There's no shot that story exists.
01:32:33.000 You don't think they'd be screwed?
01:32:35.000 Check my thread on when the baby was killed.
01:32:38.000 We'll look for it afterwards.
01:32:39.000 Who killed Elias Khan?
01:32:40.000 The baby.
01:32:41.000 We'll look for it afterwards, but for Apache, I don't know the name of every single person that got killed.
01:32:45.000 Who killed the baby?
01:32:45.000 The one baby.
01:32:47.000 Three minutes?
01:32:49.000 But I see that you guys are obviously very...
01:32:51.000 I'm not going to end this, so I'll put another two minutes on the clock because I think this is important to hash out this discussion.
01:32:57.000 Go ahead.
01:32:57.000 Who killed the baby?
01:32:58.000 The only people...
01:32:58.000 The only baby that was killed.
01:33:00.000 I mean, we talked...
01:33:00.000 They were talking about having babies and killing babies.
01:33:02.000 Babies are important.
01:33:03.000 Who killed the one Israeli baby?
01:33:04.000 The only people that were getting killed...
01:33:06.000 I don't know the name of every single person killed them.
01:33:08.000 That's great.
01:33:08.000 This is the one factory that you've remembered.
01:33:10.000 But we can all look at this afterwards.
01:33:11.000 So if we Google 187 Israelis killed by IDF Haaretz, we're going to find a Haaretz article that confirms that.
01:33:17.000 And nobody else in Israel, nobody else talking about that?
01:33:19.000 No, no.
01:33:19.000 What the article will confirm is that there was shot artillery fire by the Israelis and in Kibbutz Beri, 118, 180 people were killed at that time.
01:33:26.000 Oh, no.
01:33:27.000 Hold on.
01:33:27.000 How would they know who was killed before and who was killed after?
01:33:29.000 If the Israeli response was hours later, how would they have known who got killed initially and who got killed afterwards?
01:33:32.000 No, because we've got eyewitness testimony.
01:33:34.000 Yasmin Parra says that basically what happened was the Israelis were shooting indiscriminately.
01:33:38.000 This was an Israeli woman.
01:33:39.000 Yasmin Parra, you do know, is an Israeli woman.
01:33:41.000 She did many interviews and when they were getting exposed, they stopped her interviews and basically made sinister.
01:33:45.000 The shooting indiscriminately into the Kibbutz happened after...
01:33:58.000 We're good to go.
01:34:25.000 No, no, you're not understanding.
01:34:26.000 Because they weren't able to differentiate.
01:34:27.000 There's even a report saying that what Hamas did was they were walking slowly.
01:34:30.000 So because they were walking slowly, they didn't understand.
01:34:32.000 They couldn't differentiate between Hamas and a civilian.
01:34:34.000 And hence why they thought, you know what, we need to make sure that we basically take them out.
01:34:37.000 And that's what they did.
01:34:37.000 So in reality, that's what happened.
01:34:39.000 So they did kill a large proportion of their own people.
01:34:41.000 Look, some civilians were killed by Hamas.
01:34:43.000 I'm not saying that.
01:34:44.000 This isn't like some kind of thing.
01:34:46.000 But what I'm trying to say is the actions of Israel have demonstrated that what they did was they killed a significant number of their own civilians.
01:34:52.000 Some factions.
01:34:52.000 It's a factual disagreement.
01:34:53.000 I don't think the timeline matches up.
01:34:54.000 Hamas came in, they went back, they killed him on the way back.
01:34:56.000 They killed a lot of people.
01:34:57.000 This is what I'll do.
01:34:58.000 To make sure that we can hash this out, this is what I'll do.
01:35:00.000 Well, it's a factual disagreement, so I don't think.
01:35:03.000 I was going to put one more minute on the clock for each of them so they can go ahead and give their timeline, right?
01:35:10.000 And that's it.
01:35:11.000 That way it can be, yeah.
01:35:13.000 Both of them can put their timeline out.
01:35:15.000 Listen, I know who killed the baby.
01:35:18.000 What?
01:35:22.000 And it's exactly what I said earlier.
01:35:24.000 If the United States isn't helping, you're gonna get Chinese intervention.
01:35:27.000 You're gonna get Chinese intervention in Gaza.
01:35:29.000 That's an outside joke.
01:35:30.000 So she's a Zayo, then.
01:35:33.000 That's where the Zayo's gonna be, right?
01:35:34.000 This nigga, bro!
01:35:36.000 So this is what I'll do.
01:35:37.000 Is one minute okay or two minutes okay for both of you?
01:35:39.000 I'm chill because I think people get both arguments.
01:35:41.000 I think 30 seconds.
01:35:43.000 So I'll give you guys both 60 seconds on the clock to give your timeline because this is very important.
01:35:49.000 I want everybody to hear both perspectives openly without any type of interruption.
01:35:53.000 Who wants to go first?
01:35:56.000 I think that when you talk about the IDF killing their own civilians, it's a common code that people use to try to hand wave how many people Hamas killed when they came in.
01:36:04.000 The idea that Israel was killing people in Kibbutz Beri, but somehow Hamas was still operating in the Nova Festival doesn't make sense.
01:36:10.000 Hamas came through the fence.
01:36:12.000 Paragliders came over and rockets shot.
01:36:14.000 They hit up kibbutzes first.
01:36:15.000 You can see the whole path and the whole timeline.
01:36:17.000 And then they also went to that NOVA festival, and then they started driving back.
01:36:19.000 Now, as they were fleeing some of the kibbutzes, there were some people that were locked.
01:36:23.000 They've got these little emergency rooms that they hide in because of rockets and hot fires all the time over the Gaza Wall.
01:36:29.000 And as the IDF came in, they were already, I think, generally gone from the Nobel Festival, but there were still some lingering Hamas elements that were, and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, that were fighting in some of these kibbutzes.
01:36:38.000 And as the IDF came in, they engaged with and they got into conflict with some of the Hamas soldiers that were in some of these kibbutzes.
01:36:43.000 And as a result, there might have been, I don't even know if a single Israeli death has been confirmed from that, but there might have been some Israeli people that had been killed while Hamas was operating there.
01:36:50.000 But the idea that the IDF came in quick enough to be responsible for all the deaths in the kibbutzes, but then somehow missed everybody that was further into Israel, into the Negev, The Nova Festival just doesn't make any sense.
01:37:01.000 They would have never made it back to Gaza if the IDF was already there blowing people up at the kibbutzes.
01:37:05.000 Okay.
01:37:06.000 I'll turn it to you, Suleiman, so you can give your side.
01:37:08.000 Yeah, of course.
01:37:08.000 So basically, you had a scenario where Hamas came in, right?
01:37:11.000 And then they basically did go to the kibbutzes.
01:37:13.000 They went to various kibbutzes, kibbutz, very kibbutz, and then various other kibbutzes, and many stationed military personnel, and they were at the Nova Festival.
01:37:20.000 His argument is that the Israeli military will only That's just ridiculous.
01:37:29.000 There was a multi-operational situation that occurred.
01:37:31.000 They had the Apache helicopters and the Apache helicopters were basically attacking and burning people from atop.
01:37:37.000 And it was people who were trying to get back to Gaza, but they did do it and they basically applied the masks Because what the aim was is we don't want any hostages to do so.
01:37:47.000 This is the directive that Israel have.
01:37:49.000 A directive is this.
01:37:50.000 We'll kill our own people because then we don't have to negotiate them as hostages.
01:37:54.000 And we've seen that throughout the history that they've done that.
01:37:56.000 In terms of the kibbutzes, separate to that, they were basically, they had people and the Israeli claim is that they had hostages there.
01:38:02.000 They tied them up and whatever it may be.
01:38:03.000 And then the Israelis came in and they basically killed their own people.
01:38:07.000 They basically started attacking Hamas and then they killed their own people.
01:38:09.000 And this is confirmed by Yasmin Parag.
01:38:10.000 Can I ask one quick question and he can answer it?
01:38:11.000 How are the bodies burned by the Apache helicopters?
01:38:15.000 Are they like long distance flamethrowers?
01:38:18.000 If Apache helicopters are shooting guns and missiles, how are the bodies burned?
01:38:21.000 Would they be exploded?
01:38:22.000 So in terms of the specific way, I don't understand how it works, but in terms of what you look at, what they did was they bombed the people.
01:38:28.000 So if you look at the chart people, it was from the helicopters, it was from up top.
01:38:31.000 So if you look at the actual cars, you look at it and there's artillery on the top of the cars.
01:38:35.000 So how would that happen without there being a helicopter?
01:38:36.000 Because we have videos of us throwing grenades into the cars.
01:38:39.000 We see them do it.
01:38:39.000 So Hamas has got helicopters?
01:38:40.000 No, they're just tossing grenades into the cars.
01:38:42.000 On the top of the cars.
01:38:45.000 They came in with RPGs as well.
01:38:46.000 We have videos of that too, of them shooting rocket launchers and shit.
01:38:49.000 So you're basically making the argument with 200 cars.
01:38:51.000 If you look at it, it's a line of cars.
01:38:54.000 Significant line.
01:38:55.000 Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of cars.
01:38:56.000 And they're done with RPGs.
01:38:57.000 That's ridiculous.
01:38:58.000 It was done by the helicopters.
01:38:59.000 It was done by the Apache helicopters.
01:39:00.000 And it was done from the top.
01:39:01.000 And there's no video footage of that by anybody going there?
01:39:03.000 There's...
01:39:03.000 Isn't that crazy?
01:39:04.000 There's not a single person of all the people coming back to the cars.
01:39:07.000 Not a single person of all the helicopters.
01:39:09.000 There's video footage of the Apache helicopters.
01:39:12.000 Shooting people on the Gaza fence at the wall.
01:39:14.000 No, no, no.
01:39:15.000 That was outside the Nova Festival because the Nova Festival, the problem with it was it was right next to the border.
01:39:20.000 And so what they did was when they shot it, they shot it right there because that's the whole point.
01:39:23.000 What people have got issue with the Nova Festival is why would you hold also such a festival which is right outside the prison camp?
01:39:29.000 I'm pretty sure the kibbutzes are closer to the wall than the Nova festival was.
01:39:33.000 The Nova festival was right next to the border.
01:39:34.000 Wasn't it like 10 to 15 kilometers away?
01:39:36.000 The Nova festival was right next to the border.
01:39:37.000 This is why people have got a problem with their actions as well.
01:39:39.000 No, people have a problem because they don't like it anywhere in the south.
01:39:41.000 Sorry?
01:39:42.000 People don't like the festivals anywhere in the south.
01:39:44.000 But they wouldn't be happy if they were in the north or in the middle of the country either.
01:39:46.000 No, no, the problem is when you're holding a festival right outside a prison, you're basically flaunting it in the face.
01:39:50.000 But anyway, that's not the reason they were attacked, but I'm just demonstrating to you why it was right next to the border.
01:39:54.000 That explains it because this is some of the arguments that people were making.
01:39:56.000 Okay.
01:39:57.000 Alright, I thought that was really, I know we went out the time there, but I think it was really important to hash out both perspectives and get both sides out.
01:40:03.000 This will be the final question.
01:40:05.000 And this is kind of one I thought about while you guys were discussing.
01:40:09.000 Does Israel run American foreign policy?
01:40:14.000 I will go ahead, because I've seen you guys kind of oppose this, but we'll go ahead and just ask that question, because that's really a big elephant in the room here, I think, that everyone talks about.
01:40:23.000 Does Israel run American foreign policy?
01:40:25.000 Who wants to go first on this?
01:40:27.000 So everyone feels fair, we can do a lightning round at the end where you guys can go ahead and I'll put like three minutes on the clock like last time.
01:40:34.000 I think the United States has an interest in Israel.
01:40:36.000 I don't think that means Israel runs foreign policy any more than Ukraine runs foreign policy, any more than anybody else runs foreign policy that we've got an interest in.
01:40:43.000 I think that Israel's an important ally in the Middle East.
01:40:44.000 I think they're our shining beacon of democracy in the Middle East.
01:40:48.000 We trade with them a lot.
01:40:48.000 They do a lot of tech work for us.
01:40:49.000 We get a lot of information from them.
01:40:51.000 They help us in terms of securing Other allies in the region and fighting against Iran.
01:40:55.000 So I think it's pretty obvious why we support Israel and the idea that we have some unique attachment to them or that we're hypnotized or mindfucked by them into supporting them.
01:41:02.000 I just don't think there's any evidence for that.
01:41:04.000 Okay.
01:41:04.000 That was short and sweet.
01:41:06.000 So your stance is that foreign policy with Israel is no different than Ukraine or other countries that we have.
01:41:13.000 We probably like them a little more because of the history, but I don't think it's anything more special than that.
01:41:16.000 Okay, fair.
01:41:18.000 So we just like them a little bit more, right?
01:41:20.000 So APAC is a prime example of how they run U.S. politics.
01:41:25.000 Basically, they themselves say, what, 95 to 98% of the people that they endorse are guaranteed to basically...
01:41:32.000 I think?
01:41:47.000 Or mainly more left, the people who were the Democrats did not care because Israel controls American politics, both from the left and the right.
01:41:54.000 And same with UK politics.
01:41:55.000 It doesn't matter if you're Keir Starmer or if you're Rishi Sunak, it doesn't matter if you're Donald Trump or you're Biden, you are controlled by the Israeli regime.
01:42:01.000 So what then happens is the actions of the Israelis basically direct America on how to act and therefore they direct the funding, they direct all aspects of it.
01:42:11.000 It's why someone like Speaker Johnson, as soon as he comes in, despite the farah that he comes in with, He literally did not care about issues within America.
01:42:19.000 Many Americans care about the border.
01:42:20.000 They care about these things.
01:42:21.000 But he actually went immediately and said, I'm going to give funding to Israel.
01:42:25.000 It's not something that is, ah, I like him slightly more.
01:42:27.000 Like, who literally does that unless you're literally controlling the politics?
01:42:31.000 I mean, in Twitter, we have something called AIPAC tracker.
01:42:35.000 And it literally is.
01:42:35.000 As soon as someone from America, a senator or congressman, makes a statement which is full-on pro-Zio, you literally have him showing, look, they've received this much money from the Zios.
01:42:44.000 They've received this much from the lobby.
01:42:45.000 And everybody knows.
01:42:46.000 And it's well known as well, intrinsically, not just from the financial aspect, that you literally have to be pro-Israel, pro-Israelis to have an opportunity to run for office.
01:42:54.000 That is extreme foreign intervention.
01:42:56.000 The irony of the same people crying about Russian intervention, crying about Chinese intervention, when a foreign state is explicitly and intrinsically running your country.
01:43:07.000 Okay.
01:43:07.000 Turn it to Destiny.
01:43:09.000 Yeah, I think that Israel is really popular with the American people.
01:43:11.000 I think, unfortunately, 9-11 didn't really do a good job at PR for Muslims.
01:43:15.000 I think there were a lot of problems related to that.
01:43:17.000 I think the Iraq and the Afghanistan War probably put a bad taste in our mouths relating to Muslims.
01:43:22.000 And I think that Israel has just always enjoyed, you know, at least since 66 or 67, like, pretty broad support from the United States.
01:43:27.000 And we just have viewed them more favorably than other people in the region.
01:43:30.000 The idea that there's some special relationship that they have or some, like...
01:43:33.000 Super ability to garner support in the US. I just think that for pretty understandable reasons, they even look at the October 7th attacks.
01:43:39.000 You get stuff like this.
01:43:40.000 You get stuff like rockets coming over walls constantly.
01:43:43.000 You get stuff like people that are saying they want to destroy an entire country over and over again.
01:43:46.000 It's not really surprising why people in the United States would be more favorable to a democracy like Israel than they would to an Islamist, theocratic regime in the Gaza Strip.
01:43:55.000 Okay.
01:43:56.000 Turn it to you, Salim.
01:43:57.000 So, first of all, 9-11.
01:43:58.000 I mean, there's evidence to suggest that Israel was involved in that.
01:44:01.000 So, I don't know what that argument is coming from.
01:44:02.000 Again, to cause Americans to go to the Middle East and basically cause destruction in the Middle East.
01:44:08.000 You mentioned Afghanistan and Iraq.
01:44:09.000 Well, I already explained it.
01:44:10.000 This was done for the Israelis.
01:44:11.000 You are previously providing evidence that American foreign policy is specifically for Israel.
01:44:15.000 You mentioned October the 7th.
01:44:16.000 What's October the 7th got to do with America?
01:44:17.000 It's because you, in your mind, you know that when you attack Israel...
01:44:22.000 What's going to happen is Israel's puppy, America, has to jump in and basically protect it.
01:44:26.000 That's literally the position that you're making.
01:44:28.000 In reality, when you said that Hamas is an Islamist regime, I don't know what argument you're making from that because if you look at the Hamas charter, they're very clear that their charter is based on equality, fairness and justice.
01:44:39.000 Difference.
01:44:40.000 To the Netanyahu regime, to the Likudan regime, which is using biblical references in terms of explaining their actions, calling their adversaries biblical terms such as the Amalek.
01:44:50.000 If anybody is using religious terms to strike or using this as a political religious war, it is the Zionist regime.
01:44:58.000 Okay.
01:44:59.000 Destiny, rebuttal to that.
01:45:00.000 This has been one of the most civilized debates, well organized man.
01:45:04.000 Yeah.
01:45:07.000 There's not really any way to fight against any of the claims because there's not any meat to any of these.
01:45:12.000 I mean, we can go over the 9-11 truth or stuff.
01:45:14.000 I kind of did it with Ryan Dawson here.
01:45:16.000 I'm not really convinced that there's much meat there.
01:45:18.000 We can go over the idea that Israel forced the United States to go to war in Afghanistan.
01:45:22.000 I'll do that if...
01:45:22.000 Do you want to go into the 9-11?
01:45:23.000 I have a question real quick.
01:45:25.000 That's fine.
01:45:26.000 That happened recently.
01:45:27.000 Sure.
01:45:27.000 So, Stiko...
01:45:29.000 Hold on, before we do this, because this is completely off topic.
01:45:31.000 Oh, sure.
01:45:31.000 Are you guys content with the discussion we had?
01:45:34.000 I don't think there's any special thing.
01:45:35.000 Yo, Don DeMarco is one of you guys.
01:45:37.000 Good job, Emmanuel, for doing the Palestinian-Israel debate.
01:45:39.000 Probably one of the most civilized, well-structured debates.
01:45:41.000 And thank you guys for being so civil and fucking professional.
01:45:44.000 Sorry, go ahead.
01:45:45.000 So, you and Stiko did a stream recently, and religion was brought up.
01:45:50.000 Christianity...
01:45:51.000 Islam.
01:45:52.000 And there was a fundamental point that was brought up about Aisha.
01:45:56.000 Age of consent.
01:45:58.000 You don't have to go to question, he didn't give a direct answer.
01:46:02.000 Now I ask a question to you guys here on the panel.
01:46:03.000 What is the age of consent in Islam, you would say?
01:46:06.000 How do you know Aisha was nine?
01:46:09.000 Uh, because I think it said she was like playing with dolls.
01:46:12.000 No, how do you know she was playing?
01:46:12.000 Where did you get the information from?
01:46:13.000 Don't they give the age in the Quran for her?
01:46:15.000 It's not in the Quran.
01:46:16.000 Fake news.
01:46:17.000 Okay, where is it?
01:46:18.000 You tell me.
01:46:18.000 You're the one who talks about it more than anyone I know.
01:46:20.000 I asked Nico about it because he was the one coming on.
01:46:21.000 No, but you've talked about it.
01:46:22.000 I'm not.
01:46:23.000 No, no, no.
01:46:23.000 You've talked about it.
01:46:24.000 No, no, listen.
01:46:25.000 It's fine.
01:46:25.000 You can talk about anything.
01:46:26.000 When you talk about it, you should be educated on it.
01:46:27.000 You've talked about it on social media.
01:46:29.000 You tweet about it.
01:46:29.000 I want to know where you got the information from.
01:46:31.000 I got it because it triggers the fuck out of Muslims.
01:46:34.000 That's why I bring it up.
01:46:35.000 But here's the reality.
01:46:37.000 You can tell me that it's not found anywhere in the Quran, but when I bring up, hey, Aisha was nine, and I start getting death threats, it feels like people want to fuck nine-year-olds.
01:46:43.000 That's the feeling that I get.
01:46:44.000 Now, if it's the case of, like, where are you even getting this from, bro?
01:46:46.000 That's not even true, then they would just say it.
01:46:47.000 But instead, there's, like, literally a plethora.
01:46:49.000 There's more defenses of fucking nine-year-olds from the world of Islam than there is from the entire world of fucking libertarianism, okay?
01:46:54.000 Like, when you go online, there's like 50 million different videos that talk about why Anisha, she was actually really developed for nine years old, and the dolls she was playing with were actually like Super Barbies for like adolescents or teens or whatever.
01:47:03.000 Again, you're going into propaganda.
01:47:05.000 The point is, you do not know where you got it from.
01:47:06.000 So this is the problem when people don't have the education or knowledge.
01:47:09.000 They literally try and blog it, right?
01:47:11.000 So in reality...
01:47:12.000 And this is the issue you have.
01:47:14.000 You do not understand how Islamic epistemology and hermeneutics work.
01:47:17.000 It is not mentioned in the Quran.
01:47:18.000 In account of Muslims, the Quran is certain knowledge.
01:47:21.000 And then you have basically other things, such as hadith, such as the opinion of the scholar, which is not considered certain knowledge.
01:47:26.000 Some people agree with it.
01:47:27.000 Some people disagree with it.
01:47:28.000 It could be false.
01:47:29.000 It could be true.
01:47:29.000 It's not certain information.
01:47:30.000 So when you say Aisha was nine, this is mentioned in hadith.
01:47:34.000 But...
01:47:35.000 But there is all the alternative hadith that basically give the idea that she was actually more older than nine.
01:47:41.000 She was 18.
01:47:41.000 So if your position is that, look, having sex with nine-year-olds is pedophilia, I agree with you, right?
01:47:47.000 But even though I've seen videos of you trying to basically...
01:47:50.000 Isn't the hadith that it comes from, like, one of the...
01:47:53.000 Which hadith is it?
01:47:53.000 Isn't it one of the most cited, most trusted hadiths?
01:47:55.000 Or is this just one part we don't like of it?
01:47:56.000 No, no, so the hadith, so any hadith, and this is the problem, any hadith, what we have is basically passed on from one person to another, to another, to another.
01:48:04.000 So any hadith, every single Muslim scholar will tell you, epistemologically, is a probabilistic knowledge.
01:48:09.000 Probabilistic means it could be right, or it could be wrong.
01:48:12.000 It could be true, it may not be true.
01:48:13.000 And therefore, it has no tenets when it comes to Islam.
01:48:15.000 So if someone was to reject, example, the hadith about Aisha B9, he would not leave the fold of Islam, because She's not rejecting the tenets within the religion.
01:48:23.000 So her being 9, so my position she was 18, as an example, right?
01:48:26.000 Because I think that hadith has epistemological issues, as well as the person who narrated that hadith has memory issues.
01:48:33.000 So again, this is an attack on Islam.
01:48:35.000 This is an attack on that specific people, anyone who believes that hadith, or for example the hadith.
01:48:40.000 Why don't we just say that then?
01:48:43.000 Because, again, the problem...
01:48:44.000 Why isn't it on Twitter when you bring it up?
01:48:45.000 Because, like, you bring up, like, why don't you make fun of Jews?
01:48:47.000 When I ever bring up, like, what about the pianist circumcision thing?
01:48:49.000 Every Jewish guy goes, oh, that's fucking weird.
01:48:50.000 That's what I see.
01:48:51.000 When I bring up the Aisha thing, okay, well, I haven't found any Jew that wants to defend it to me, okay?
01:48:55.000 Maybe that Rabbi Shmuley guy I've ever talked to him, maybe he would, because that guy seems fucking insane.
01:48:58.000 But whenever I bring up anything on Twitter about, like, Aisha, it's, like, fucking World War III. It's, like, World War, like, Muhammad edition, where I've got, like, so many people in mind.
01:49:06.000 No, no, no, you've admitted it, because the reason when you bring it up, it's not based on academia, epistemology, anything like that.
01:49:12.000 It just triggers people.
01:49:13.000 No, you do it to basically attack people.
01:49:14.000 Yeah, I do.
01:49:15.000 I think most Muslims in the United States and in Europe, I don't think they want to have sex with nine-year-olds.
01:49:19.000 I don't think they would support that.
01:49:20.000 They clearly don't.
01:49:21.000 And if you ask them, most people would say, look, the argument, those who even believe it, they'll be like, look, we accept it, but it was physically, emotional development is a different type.
01:49:29.000 And I don't agree with these arguments.
01:49:30.000 I'm just saying.
01:49:31.000 They make those arguments, but they say right now, the development is later, mentally and physically, and therefore it should be much later.
01:49:36.000 So even their argument isn't that you should have sex with nine-year-olds.
01:49:38.000 The reason you get that response is because you specifically are doing it to attack a person Three minutes.
01:49:43.000 And so people are emotional.
01:49:44.000 So people are going to provide an emotional response.
01:49:45.000 That's the way it works.
01:49:46.000 Go ahead.
01:49:47.000 The Quran 65-4.
01:49:49.000 I don't know how that works, but you're saying that it proves that she was of a younger age.
01:49:54.000 Impossible.
01:49:54.000 It's not in Quran.
01:49:55.000 They're saying in the chat.
01:49:56.000 I'm not really sure about that.
01:49:57.000 Impossible.
01:49:57.000 Fake news.
01:49:58.000 What he's saying is epistemologically in Islam, the Quran is considered the direct word of God.
01:50:03.000 Every letter written in the Quran is true.
01:50:06.000 Given from Allah or whatever.
01:50:08.000 But hadiths are oral traditions that are passed down from other people and the credibility of the hadiths and the interpretation of them can be called into question and you can have like imams debating between the validity between hadiths.
01:50:17.000 And there's a mechanism to work out the authenticity.
01:50:19.000 Sure.
01:50:19.000 Okay.
01:50:21.000 Are you guys satisfied with that?
01:50:22.000 I think you brought up a good point.
01:50:23.000 If that was the case, why doesn't every Muslim just say that?
01:50:26.000 No, because there are Muslims who believe that she was nine.
01:50:28.000 And so the point is when he's attacking them, it's attacking them for their specific position.
01:50:33.000 And so obviously they're emotionally connected to that position.
01:50:36.000 But my point is, My issue with destiny is he didn't know what he was arguing, where it come from, the source of it, and he didn't know the epistemological and hermeneutical reasons.
01:50:46.000 He was just doing it to attack Muslims, and he's admitted that, and obviously hence why he gets the response he did.
01:50:51.000 Sneaker got real triggered.
01:50:53.000 That's fucking funny.
01:50:54.000 That's some viral though.
01:50:55.000 Oh my god, okay.
01:50:57.000 I didn't watch the Sneaker one.
01:50:58.000 I'll read the chest out of the Sneaker, he'll be here in a little bit.
01:51:00.000 I'm curious, what percentage of Muslims think you agree with that?
01:51:04.000 Agree with what?
01:51:05.000 With your hadith interpretation there.
01:51:07.000 So it's a good question.
01:51:09.000 Right now, classically.
01:51:12.000 Right now?
01:51:13.000 So classically, I would say the vast majority, right now I'd say the minority.
01:51:16.000 Okay.
01:51:17.000 Wait, right now the minority agree with you or disagree with you?
01:51:19.000 Agree with me.
01:51:20.000 Minority agree with me.
01:51:20.000 So the majority of Muslims right now think that Ayesha was nine years old.
01:51:22.000 That's right, yeah.
01:51:23.000 Wait, what the fuck was the point of all this then?
01:51:25.000 Because I'm trying to explain to you.
01:51:27.000 No, no, the point is because you have to understand how hermeneutics work and you need to understand that what you're attacking isn't Islam.
01:51:33.000 You're attacking a certain position that some people have within Islam, even if it's the majority.
01:51:37.000 That was my point I was trying to make.
01:51:39.000 And actually my position is a position that was held by a large proportion in the early century.
01:51:44.000 So for example, the person who narrated the hadith, his own teacher wouldn't take that hadith of him as an example.
01:51:50.000 So it wasn't accepted as much in that time.
01:51:51.000 Is that the guy with the bad memory?
01:51:52.000 Yeah.
01:51:53.000 Just so the audience understands?
01:51:53.000 Yeah, it's the guy with the bad memory.
01:51:55.000 Okay.
01:51:56.000 So Imam Malik, who was his teacher, who's one of the founders of Sunni legal theory, did not take that narration from him.
01:52:03.000 Okay.
01:52:04.000 We've still got two minutes on the clock.
01:52:05.000 Anything else that you guys want to...
01:52:06.000 Okay.
01:52:06.000 I just want to make sure all parties are satisfied.
01:52:08.000 That was a great discussion.
01:52:09.000 I'll read the chats, and we'll close this out.
01:52:11.000 Girl show.
01:52:12.000 Yeah.
01:52:12.000 Cool.
01:52:13.000 What do we got here?
01:52:14.000 We got...
01:52:15.000 Destiny is Dayuth.
01:52:16.000 Suleiman and Meyer know what I'm saying.
01:52:19.000 And Fresh beat the Ching Chong lying whore in court.
01:52:21.000 You got this.
01:52:22.000 Okay.
01:52:22.000 Thanks, bro.
01:52:23.000 Yeah, man.
01:52:23.000 I mean, when you got the truth on your side, there's nothing really that can happen.
01:52:26.000 Yeah, I mean...
01:52:26.000 What else we got here?
01:52:27.000 Pretty much.
01:52:27.000 That's it?
01:52:28.000 Cool.
01:52:29.000 Yo, Destiny, thank you guys so much for coming.
01:52:31.000 Where can the people find you guys?
01:52:32.000 Yeah, youtube.com slash destiny.
01:52:35.000 That's it.
01:52:35.000 Cake.com slash destiny.
01:52:37.000 And Suleman, where can the people find you?
01:52:38.000 Twitter.
01:52:39.000 One of the biggest political commentators on Twitter right now, man.
01:52:43.000 $500,000 plus.
01:52:44.000 I didn't know that Destiny was RP, man.
01:52:45.000 That was awesome.
01:52:47.000 Just kidding.
01:52:48.000 Hey guys, I hope you guys enjoyed this debate, man.
01:52:50.000 No, I appreciate it.
01:52:51.000 Destiny is the first Zayo I've debated who literally didn't interrupt.
01:52:54.000 I was ready for him to interrupt and start calling him a Zayo and it didn't happen.
01:52:57.000 You didn't get a chance for me to call him a Zayo.
01:53:00.000 Oh, man.
01:53:01.000 Hey guys, I hope you guys enjoyed it.
01:53:02.000 I'll be back with some lovely ladies.
01:53:03.000 Nico's going to be in the house with Sonny Fast.
01:53:04.000 It's going to be a great time.
01:53:05.000 We'll catch you guys back here in a little bit.
01:53:06.000 Peace!
01:53:07.000 I ran, I ran so far away I just ran, I ran all night and day