Louder with Crowder - Biological Men Should Not Compete in Women's Sports (Part 3)

00:00:00.000 If you feel like you're a woman and everyone around you is just constantly saying biological man, biological man, biological man.

00:00:07.000 Doctors.

00:00:08.000 Doctors.

00:00:08.000 What?

00:00:09.000 That's different.

00:00:10.000 I mean, okay, sorry, let me rephrase that.

00:00:12.000 ♪♪ ♪♪

00:00:36.000 Welcome back to the final installment of my Change My Mind trilogy, Biological Men Should Not Compete

00:00:42.000 in Women's Sports.

00:00:44.000 In part one, we sat down with Isaac, and although we had major disagreements, he proved to be articulate, respectful.

00:00:49.000 As you saw in part two, we all endured a very dark middle chapter filled with deception, regret, and smug journalism.

00:00:58.000 Will today's third act find redemption for humanity, or will we once again find ourselves assailed by activist cartoon characters in army surplus jackets with nothing to lose but their dignity, meaning nothing to lose?

00:01:09.000 Well, here we go!

00:01:13.000 Our first conversation, again at UNT today, was between me and a student named Hugh.

00:01:17.000 Hugh's hoping our conversation is more constructive than the one we had in Part 2.

00:01:22.000 So, Hugh, thanks for sitting down, brother.

00:01:26.000 I'll hold it, just because sometimes people try and steal expensive microphones.

00:01:29.000 Yeah, I get it.

00:01:29.000 You know, just had someone run by and try and throw a milkshake, which I believe was...

00:01:34.000 I believe it was a woman, though it wasn't very ladylike.

00:01:36.000 It's just a waste of a damn milkshake, you ask.

00:01:38.000 I don't know if it's a milkshake, I don't know if it's a Frosty, I don't know if it's some kind of a... Sorry, we just have to... No, I get it.

00:01:44.000 Every now and then a milkshake can contain concrete or acid because, you know, today's modern left is so tolerant.

00:01:50.000 We have to run into this.

00:01:51.000 I'm not saying you, I'm just saying this is what we run into on campus.

00:01:53.000 No, I get it.

00:01:54.000 Hugh, thanks for sitting down.

00:01:56.000 I don't know how familiar you are with kind of what this is at all or what the program is.

00:02:01.000 I'll give you the brief version.

00:02:03.000 It's just a way for people to sit down and hopefully rationalize their positions on what are often seen as controversial topics.

00:02:10.000 Often, we are successful with that.

00:02:12.000 So, today, obviously, and this is sort of something we had planned before, but now that Leah Thomas just won the NCAA Women's Championship, one of the races, I do not believe that biological men, biological males, should be allowed to compete in women's sports.

00:02:31.000 Hugh, if you disagree with me, which is why I assume you're sitting down, feel free to make your case and change my mind.

00:02:36.000 So, I disagree.

00:02:38.000 I believe that For one thing, I don't think it should matter.

00:02:42.000 I think it should be about the sport.

00:02:43.000 I think if you're passionate about the sport, and you're into swimming or whatever, it shouldn't really matter.

00:02:50.000 But, there is definitely something to be said about... Can I ask you something real quick just before?

00:02:55.000 What do you mean, it shouldn't matter?

00:02:57.000 So, it meaning, I don't think it should make a difference whether or not you have a penis, or whether or not you have a vagina, whether or not you participate in women's or men's sports.

00:03:05.000 So you just believe that there should be no divisions at all?

00:03:08.000 It should just be all men and women compete against each other?

00:03:10.000 Not quite.

00:03:11.000 So here's what I think.

00:03:12.000 Oh, okay.

00:03:12.000 So it does matter.

00:03:13.000 So, my position's a little bit more nuanced than that.

00:03:17.000 Sorry.

00:03:17.000 Oh, okay.

00:03:18.000 If you're born with a penis, right, and you start taking hormone therapy, it changes the way your muscles work.

00:03:24.000 grow, right? So like after a couple of years or after a couple of months, you know, you're

00:03:28.000 on estrogen, your muscles change and they start growing like, you know, female muscles

00:03:35.000 do. And you're not actually given that much of an advantage.

00:03:38.000 Or you're not, they don't have as much of an advantage as you think they might, you

00:03:41.000 Are you sure about that?

00:03:41.000 know?

00:03:42.000 Well, I guess I'm not sure, but I'm also not sure about anything because I'm a f***ing

00:03:48.000 mongrel, you know what I mean?

00:03:49.000 Don't start it off that way.

00:03:51.000 Then why are you sitting down?

00:03:52.000 Well, they already know that.

00:03:53.000 Yeah, but I don't know that.

00:03:55.000 It's not fair for me to beat up on a quote-unquote f***ing moron.

00:03:58.000 I'm not trying to... So, okay, I haven't... I don't have scientific peer-reviewed studies at my back.

00:04:04.000 to quote. That's just as I understand it. You take these hormones, it changes the way

00:04:09.000 your body works, your body becomes more feminine, you lose that masculine muscle mass that you

00:04:16.000 might have. And so after a couple of months of hormone therapy, a couple of months or

00:04:19.000 a year, it doesn't make that much of a difference.

00:04:23.000 Now what if that was entirely incorrect?

00:04:26.000 If that were entirely incorrect, then yeah, that would be completely different.

00:04:31.000 But then I think we need to re-evaluate.

00:04:33.000 So let's say it's entirely incorrect, it would be different, you mean that males should compete with biological males and biological males should compete with biological females.

00:04:39.000 Assuming that just a couple months, or even a year, or even two years of the hormone replacement therapy doesn't make that much of a difference.

00:04:46.000 If it doesn't make that much of a difference, I think that You could make that argument.

00:04:50.000 But I also think it's more about the sport.

00:04:51.000 It doesn't make much of a difference.

00:04:52.000 It doesn't make much of a difference.

00:04:53.000 I think it's more about the sport.

00:04:54.000 No, as a matter of fact, two reasons why.

00:04:56.000 Yeah.

00:04:57.000 I know you're going to go to a separate argument, but I want to kind of hold you to what you just said because I think maybe we agree.

00:05:02.000 Because this is something a lot of people don't know.

00:05:04.000 They've done these studies.

00:05:05.000 They've conducted them.

00:05:06.000 And I always make all the references available on the website as this goes up.

00:05:11.000 After a year, so two points, after a year of hormone replacement therapy, hormone suppression specifically for a man, from a man to a woman, they lose about 5% of their total strength, muscle density, actual volume of muscle.

00:05:25.000 Okay?

00:05:27.000 There are also other benefits that remain.

00:05:28.000 So first off, it's not about testosterone when you're taking it.

00:05:31.000 Testosterone in utero and testosterone specifically through puberty, it's not just muscle strength.

00:05:36.000 Anyone who's done strength training or sports knows there's muscle volume, there's muscle strength, there's muscle density, there's fast-twitch muscle fibers, there's slow-twitch muscle fibers.

00:05:45.000 There's anaerobic capacity, there's VO2 max, there's lung capacity, there's bone density, there's red blood cell count, there's connective tissue strength, ligament strength, which is about 80% higher in men.

00:05:57.000 And those are not reversible.

00:05:59.000 As a matter of fact, even after an entire year, after two years, after a year, it's 5% of a loss.

00:06:06.000 That's not a big loss.

00:06:07.000 And you see that, by the way, with, let's use Leah Thomas as an example, and I have a second point.

00:06:13.000 If you look at Leah Thomas, the man who just won the females swim meet, the 200 meter, 500 meter, placed fifth and won one of the other ones, those times wouldn't have even placed top 500 or top 800.

00:06:26.000 Talking about, beat the Olympic silver medalist, wouldn't even place top 500 against men.

00:06:33.000 Reduce that by 5%, it's still not even close.

00:06:36.000 So, okay.

00:06:37.000 They still have an unbelievable advantage.

00:06:38.000 That's why we have men's and women's sports, right?

00:06:41.000 To try and keep it fair and for the safety of the players.

00:06:44.000 Second...

00:06:45.000 Um, not only that, uh, you were saying, if, if, if, your second point there was, I'm trying to remember what it was that you were saying.

00:06:52.000 Uh, so my second point is that it should be more about the sport.

00:06:55.000 I think, it shouldn't really matter.

00:06:56.000 Oh, and also, I should also mention, sorry, that's what I was thinking about, is we have these different, uh, studies.

00:07:00.000 Also, the IOC doesn't require any hormone replacement therapy whatsoever.

00:07:03.000 Yeah, that's kinda, that's different.

00:07:04.000 I think, the big problem right now with We just don't know enough.

00:07:10.000 There's going to be a lot of experimenting with trying to figure out whether or not trans people can, you know, how to include them in these sports, how to include them in these activities, in these competitions.

00:07:19.000 How about not experimenting at the cost of biological females?

00:07:22.000 No, that's definitely, I think if that's the case, it's messed up.

00:07:25.000 But also, mistakes happen.

00:07:27.000 I think that Well, there's a difference between mistakes happening and thrusting them upon women.

00:07:33.000 Because I'm sure that, obviously, I would imagine on college campus, at least somewhat of a feminist, you support women's equal rights.

00:07:40.000 Yeah.

00:07:40.000 Yeah?

00:07:40.000 Certainly women's right to compete fairly and safely.

00:07:44.000 Right?

00:07:44.000 We both would.

00:07:45.000 So let's not thrust an experimentation upon women when all the empirical and anecdotal data that we have thus far shows it's unfair to them.

00:07:52.000 There's a difference between mistakes happening.

00:07:54.000 Well, I don't... I haven't looked at all the data.

00:07:57.000 I haven't, you know, checked out all that stuff.

00:07:59.000 I can't say whether or not that's true or not.

00:08:01.000 I do believe in it.

00:08:02.000 I think if that's the case, yeah, it's totally unfair.

00:08:04.000 They should totally... Okay.

00:08:06.000 They should totally fix that.

00:08:07.000 They should totally, you know, do whatever they need to do.

00:08:10.000 Do whatever they need to do to make it fair for everyone competing.

00:08:14.000 Which is what we've always done, which is biological males compete with males, and biological females compete with females.

00:08:19.000 But I also don't think it's fair to exclude them.

00:08:22.000 And that's also different, you know, you said yourself... Well, no one's excluding them.

00:08:25.000 Sorry, well, if you have, you know, people with penises, if we have a penis division and we have a vagina division, doesn't that mean that the trans athletes in the male division and the female division are at a disadvantage, naturally?

00:08:38.000 Or also, what about the other way around?

00:08:41.000 Yes, taking steroids.

00:08:42.000 It's illegal already.

00:08:43.000 So in other words, these issues already exist.

00:08:45.000 If you're a male, you can't compete with biological females.

00:08:48.000 and they compete in the female division, wouldn't that give them more of an advantage?

00:08:53.000 Yes, taking steroids.

00:08:54.000 Right.

00:08:55.000 It's illegal already.

00:08:56.000 Right.

00:08:56.000 So in other words, these issues already exist.

00:08:58.000 If you're a male, you can't compete with biological females, and if you're a biological female,

00:09:02.000 you're not allowed to take steroids.

00:09:03.000 Keep those rules.

00:09:04.000 Then why don't we have a third division for everyone to compete?

00:09:06.000 I mean, why don't we have a... I'm on board.

00:09:07.000 How about that?

00:09:08.000 Would that be fair?

00:09:09.000 I think that would be fair.

00:09:10.000 I just think it's lame that... A third division?

00:09:10.000 I think that'd be cool.

00:09:12.000 A third division would be great.

00:09:13.000 Even a fourth and a fifth or fifty-fourth because there are, you know, many genders?

00:09:16.000 Let's have sixty-nine, why not?

00:09:17.000 F*** it, who cares?

00:09:18.000 Okay, so I think you... Here's the thing.

00:09:19.000 You just said you're a f***ing idiot.

00:09:19.000 Yeah.

00:09:20.000 Yeah.

00:09:21.000 You actually have maintained the most tenable position you have today.

00:09:25.000 Let me explain to you.

00:09:26.000 And I don't mean that.

00:09:26.000 I'm not just shining your ass here.

00:09:30.000 I don't know why anyone would shine anyone's ass.

00:09:31.000 I don't know why that's an expression.

00:09:32.000 You've had your ass shined?

00:09:33.000 Get a good ass shining today?

00:09:35.000 You go to the train station, do your shoes?

00:09:39.000 Sex, the argument that's presented on campus, right, and I don't really agree with this that sex and gender are different because it's a very modern theory and gender was a grammatical term, but I think we would both agree that what is taught as transgenderism is sex is biological, gender is societal, right, gender is social.

00:09:55.000 That's the current status of, that's what's being taught today in gender studies.

00:10:00.000 Okay.

00:10:02.000 It's not a position that can be argued, if you say gender and sex are different, to then say also you can identify as a biological female.

00:10:10.000 What you just said is actually remarkably consistent, that, okay, have a third division, because this is a gender issue, it's not a biological issue.

00:10:17.000 And like you're saying, even though it sounds absurd to you, and it sounds absurd to me, if you say 69, however many genders, the truth is, if gender is separate from sex, Then we would have to maintain that sports, male, female, men's, women's divisions are separated by sex, by biology.

00:10:33.000 It's the only fair way to do it.

00:10:34.000 It's the only fair shake that women get.

00:10:36.000 And then if people identify as a different gender, I'm fine doing a third category and I'm genuinely, I'm okay doing a fourth and fifth category if they want to do that.

00:10:43.000 So we say that's a fair Compromise?

00:10:45.000 Yeah, I think that's what, I mean, it's honestly, it should be more about the sport, you know?

00:10:49.000 It should be about the integrity of the activity that you're doing.

00:10:52.000 It should be about the athletes.

00:10:53.000 It should be about the people who actually care about it, you know?

00:10:56.000 Yeah.

00:10:57.000 It shouldn't just be about trying to win.

00:10:58.000 Like, and granted, I don't think that, you know, Leah Thomas or whatever, I don't even, honestly, I don't follow sports.

00:11:03.000 I didn't even know that, you know, that was happening.

00:11:05.000 But it's not about just, you know, trying to get a gold medal, you know?

00:11:08.000 It's about swimming.

00:11:09.000 It's about, it's about moving your damn arms in the water.

00:11:11.000 It's about kicking your legs.

00:11:12.000 It's, it shouldn't be about, Well, sports are about winning.

00:11:15.000 I mean, yes, sports are definitely about winning.

00:11:18.000 But it should be about the competition.

00:11:19.000 It should be about, you know, the integrity of the sport.

00:11:23.000 And as long as that's being maintained, that's cool.

00:11:25.000 I agree with you.

00:11:26.000 There's no integrity in beating up on women.

00:11:28.000 But we need to find a way to include trans people in that.

00:11:28.000 Exactly.

00:11:31.000 We need to find a way to include them in that.

00:11:33.000 Because honestly, they just want to live their lives.

00:11:36.000 They just want to compete in these sports like anyone else.

00:11:38.000 And if they don't have an outlet to do that, if the only way that Leah Thomas can compete and feel like herself is by competing in the female

00:11:47.000 division, well then yeah, it is unfair.

00:11:50.000 But it's also unfair to her to say, you know what, you can't compete, sorry.

00:11:55.000 Your life as a swimmer is over.

00:11:56.000 Your life as an athlete, no longer.

00:11:57.000 Is it unfair to a heavyweight to say you can't compete at bantamweight?

00:12:01.000 Biology is biology and sports are separated by biology.

00:12:03.000 That's not unfair.

00:12:04.000 It would be unfair to say you can't eat at a diner.

00:12:06.000 It would be unfair to say you can't rent at this apartment because you're trans.

00:12:09.000 It's not unfair to say you can't compete in the biological women's division.

00:12:12.000 We just made a lot of progress, now you're going back on it with a different gender division, I agree with.

00:12:19.000 It's a little bit different, I think, than having a heavyweight compete in a featherweight.

00:12:25.000 Trans people, they're biologically different.

00:12:27.000 I mean, if we're talking about biology, when you take these hormones, it does have an effect on your body, but there isn't even a trans lead.

00:12:35.000 There isn't even a lead for Leah Thomas.

00:12:37.000 So what should she have done?

00:12:39.000 There is a lead for Leah Thomas.

00:12:40.000 It's the men's swimming division.

00:12:42.000 But that's not quite true.

00:12:43.000 And Leah Thomas wasn't that good as him.

00:12:45.000 Leah Thomas is a male.

00:12:46.000 I don't believe that.

00:12:47.000 Leah Thomas is a biological male.

00:12:50.000 Leah Thomas was born with a penis, and that would mean yes, biologically, that she was born as a man.

00:12:56.000 Leah Thomas was born with a penis, an XY chromosome.

00:12:58.000 Leah Thomas had more testosterone and overall sex hormones in utero.

00:13:03.000 Leah Thomas went through puberty, which defines bone density.

00:13:06.000 Defines ligament strength.

00:13:07.000 Defines VO2 max.

00:13:08.000 Defines red blood cell count.

00:13:10.000 Defines contractile strength of muscular tissue.

00:13:13.000 Leah Thomas went through all that and Leah Thomas was competing as a male up until only a couple years ago.

00:13:18.000 Just like Fallon Fox was a male who fathered children and then two years later shattered a woman's orbital bone.

00:13:24.000 Come on, that's not fair.

00:13:25.000 No, but it's not quite fair to say that she is biologically just as male as you or me, right?

00:13:31.000 Because after taking estrogen and after taking all that stuff, it did affect her.

00:13:36.000 I mean, you said it yourself, right?

00:13:38.000 There's at least a 5% change, right?

00:13:40.000 Which is far less than the difference between, for example, a heavyweight and a light heavyweight.

00:13:44.000 The point is the difference is so radical.

00:13:46.000 It's so radical between, come on, this is one thing too, between men and women.

00:13:50.000 There might be a radical difference between men and women, but I think there's also a radical difference between trans women and biological men, and people who are biological men that identify as biological men.

00:14:02.000 No.

00:14:02.000 Physiologically?

00:14:04.000 No one's argued that up until very recently.

00:14:06.000 You believe that someone who identifies... So, if tomorrow I start identifying as a woman, you believe that biologically I'm different than most of the men here?

00:14:14.000 No, but I think you'd be an asshole, because that's not how transgenderism works.

00:14:18.000 Yes, it does.

00:14:18.000 That's exactly what's happened.

00:14:19.000 That's what happened with Mary Gregory, a female powerlifter.

00:14:21.000 That's what happened with Janae Kroc, a male-to-female powerlifter.

00:14:24.000 There's a documentary on Amazon called Transformers.

00:14:27.000 A Transformer.

00:14:28.000 Yeah, Michael Bay, crappy one, Transformers.

00:14:30.000 Transformers, what I believe it is, was Matt Krokoszynski, some Polish name I can't pronounce, then became Janae Marie.

00:14:39.000 And dominates in women's divisions.

00:14:41.000 You see this with female powerlifters.

00:14:43.000 You see it with male-to-female transgender powerlifters.

00:14:45.000 You see it in cycling.

00:14:47.000 Records being set.

00:14:48.000 Yes, I could do that.

00:14:49.000 I could, in one year's time, it would be the exact same scenario as Leah Thomas.

00:14:53.000 Identify as a woman.

00:14:55.000 And in many sports, two weeks' time.

00:14:59.000 According to the International Olympic Committee, I wouldn't have to undergo any hormone replacement therapy at all and just say, I'm a woman.

00:15:05.000 How do you know?

00:15:06.000 Well then that's just something that needs to be regulated.

00:15:08.000 That's just a rule that needs to be added.

00:15:10.000 That's something that needs to be accounted for.

00:15:12.000 But I also think it's a little disingenuous to say, oh yeah, I'm a man and now tomorrow I'm a woman and I'm going to compete in these women's sports.

00:15:20.000 That's exactly what Lea Thomas did.

00:15:22.000 I don't think that's exactly what Leah Thomas did.

00:15:24.000 On the biological frame of reference, yes.

00:15:26.000 But there's a lot more to sports and there's a lot more to life than just biology.

00:15:31.000 No, not to sports.

00:15:32.000 To sports, it's about winning and we separate them by biology.

00:15:36.000 You may not like it, but that's why we separate them.

00:15:38.000 And that's why I think we both agreed before, if they want to have a third to keep it fair and to keep it safe, We can have sports based on additional genders, but have the traditional, the original sports of male and female, which is separated by biology, to be fair, just like weight classes, just like age brackets.

00:15:55.000 And then if someone wants to identify a different way, we'll say, well, in order that we protect women, and also you not feel marginalized, you can compete in a third division.

00:16:03.000 Well, I think that's where this disconnect is.

00:16:06.000 I absolutely believe that.

00:16:06.000 I still believe that.

00:16:07.000 But I also don't think that there's no way that a trans athlete can compete right now in a trans division.

00:16:14.000 And so for Leah Thomas, I feel bad for her because if she wants to compete, there's no trans league for her to compete.

00:16:20.000 But do you feel bad for the woman?

00:16:22.000 Do you feel bad for all the women who Leah Thomas beat?

00:16:25.000 Do you feel bad for the 80 plus women who have now lost out on scholarships and international rankings?

00:16:30.000 Yeah!

00:16:30.000 Of course I feel bad for them, but I feel just as bad for them as I do Leah Thomas.

00:16:33.000 At the end of the day, I don't know any of those women just like I don't know Leah Thomas.

00:16:33.000 Because you know what?

00:16:37.000 And I think that we should consider everyone's ability to compete.

00:16:41.000 We should consider everyone's, you know... So then what's the solution?

00:16:45.000 Well the solution is, for this Leah Thomas situation, I don't f***ing know.

00:16:49.000 I'm not involved in swimming, I don't know if they need to have a different... What's the solution for men and women sports, male and female sports, which has always been separated by biology, it cannot be changed no matter how many hormones you take, what's the solution?

00:17:04.000 Continue going with what we have done to ensure the safety and equal opportunity of women, that's why Title IX exists, or upend all of it so that we don't hurt some people's feelings?

00:17:13.000 It's not just black.

00:17:14.000 It shouldn't be so black and white.

00:17:16.000 It shouldn't just be this or that.

00:17:17.000 Then what is the solution?

00:17:18.000 A solution?

00:17:19.000 Have a trans league.

00:17:20.000 First of all, have a trans league.

00:17:21.000 Have more divisions where more people can compete.

00:17:24.000 Why don't we just have an augmented league where you can have robot legs, you know?

00:17:24.000 F**k it.

00:17:27.000 Let's just see how far we can push the human body.

00:17:29.000 We actually do have that.

00:17:30.000 We actually do.

00:17:31.000 There was a guy at the South African who had no legs and he had those bent back paper clips that he ran on.

00:17:36.000 And then he killed his girlfriend.

00:17:38.000 Yikes.

00:17:39.000 Well, I mean, you know, I think that... You don't remember that story?

00:17:43.000 I don't remember that story.

00:17:44.000 It was running around, it looked like he was from that Sector 9 movie, like those prawns.

00:17:50.000 He was running around in these little, like, bent-back metal paperclips.

00:17:53.000 And then people were complaining that he had an unfair advantage.

00:17:55.000 And they're like, well, he doesn't have any legs.

00:17:56.000 And it's like, well, yeah, but those are basically mechanical at that point.

00:17:59.000 But then also, if he wanted to compete, how could he?

00:18:02.000 There's no, you know, mechanical thing to compete, you know.

00:18:05.000 You don't get to.

00:18:06.000 That's kind of lame.

00:18:07.000 That's lame to the sport.

00:18:10.000 That's lame to the activity.

00:18:11.000 That does a disservice to people who want to participate in these activities.

00:18:15.000 I want to set a bench press record.

00:18:18.000 I want to set a world bench press record.

00:18:20.000 Can I use a crane?

00:18:23.000 I think you're going about the sport wrong if you're just trying to break a record, because there's a lot more involved in breaking records than that.

00:18:30.000 Not to these women who are afforded scholarships and coaching jobs, right?

00:18:33.000 Right.

00:18:33.000 We have to acknowledge that's important.

00:18:35.000 It's not fun to be an NCAA, you know, it's not fun to be a silver medalist at the Olympics like the lady who had to play second.

00:18:42.000 It's a tough, tough life.

00:18:43.000 Right.

00:18:44.000 And then you're ripping it from them because someone who was a middling to low-end male swimmer decided, I'm going to be a woman next year.

00:18:51.000 I don't think that's fair, and I don't think it's looking out for the best interests of women.

00:18:55.000 But I also think it's unfair.

00:18:58.000 You're talking so much about women, and you're talking so much about the rights of these people, but what about the trans people?

00:19:02.000 Do they not also have rights?

00:19:04.000 Are they not also humans that breed just like us?

00:19:07.000 I don't think that it's a right to compete in sports.

00:19:09.000 That's what we're talking about.

00:19:10.000 If we're just talking about sports, yeah.

00:19:13.000 It's a little unfair.

00:19:14.000 If they want to take a dump at a Target in a muumuu with some eye makeup, I don't care.

00:19:19.000 The hatred with which you speak about them... What hatred?

00:19:25.000 The way that you talk about them, it's not respectful to them.

00:19:29.000 How have I spoken about them that's disrespectful?

00:19:31.000 I just don't think they should be allowed to beat up on women or beat women at sports.

00:19:36.000 No, that's fair, but is there not an underlying... What do you think about trans people as a group?

00:19:42.000 Do you hate them?

00:19:43.000 No, of course not, I don't hate them.

00:19:45.000 Of course not, I don't hate them.

00:19:48.000 No, I don't hate them at all.

00:19:50.000 I feel sorry for many of them.

00:19:53.000 In what way do you feel sorry for them?

00:19:55.000 Well, I think that we're dealing with a demographic that, now we're getting off of the topic here, but I think we're dealing with a demographic that has a 19 times the suicide rate of the general population.

00:20:05.000 That's a 42% attempt at suicide rate.

00:20:08.000 And I don't think that denying the realities, the constraints of biology, And the human condition is helping them.

00:20:16.000 I think that we're actually putting many of them, and especially when you involve hormone replacement therapy, and when we know what estrogen does to the male body, when we know what excess estrogen does to the female body, we are, in an attempt to coddle them, rather than seek assisting them, we're putting them into a shallow, young, cancerous grave.

00:20:40.000 So then do you think that transgender, or being trans, is a disease more than it is a lifestyle choice?

00:20:46.000 No, I don't think it's a disease.

00:20:48.000 I think that you would have to look at a very, very strong, not only correlation, but causation, because you would look at both pre- and post-op, the suicide rate doesn't improve.

00:20:59.000 The attempted suicide rate is about 41-42% pre-op.

00:21:02.000 It's about 41-42% post-op.

00:21:04.000 The mental health issues are through the roof.

00:21:07.000 uh... the regrets upon transitioning even though very few than actually do

00:21:11.000 go through with the bottom surgery for replacement therapy is very very hot

00:21:15.000 so uh... i think we have to look at that and say okay why is this happening

00:21:19.000 in this community and how do we actually more effectively address that

00:21:23.000 than just say however you identify compete that way and uh... we used to

00:21:27.000 say gender and sex were different but now will allow them to be one of the

00:21:31.000 same in sports i don't think it's productive

00:21:35.000 it honestly for me it breaks my heart because i think about the fact that you

00:21:39.000 know the suicide rate is super high So many of them are killing themselves.

00:21:42.000 So many of them are so unhappy.

00:21:44.000 Part of that's because society hates them because of the way that so many people treat them.

00:21:48.000 I mean, if you feel like you're... I think that's part of it.

00:21:51.000 I think there's certainly a mental health aspect of it.

00:21:54.000 But I also think that if you feel like you're a woman, and everyone around you is just constantly saying

00:22:00.000 biological man, biological man, biological man.

00:22:02.000 Like doctors.

00:22:03.000 Doctors. What? That's different. I mean, okay, sorry, let me rephrase that.

00:22:08.000 I don't think that it's fair to only think about the rights of women in sports

00:22:19.000 without also talking about trans mental health.

00:22:22.000 I mean, there's so much that goes into all of these issues.

00:22:25.000 No, I agree.

00:22:26.000 I agree, but I think they're separate issues.

00:22:27.000 I think that biological men, we both agree, biological males should not be allowed to compete with biological females.

00:22:33.000 And sure, we can address the mental health issues.

00:22:35.000 You know, it's interesting that you bring up, I don't agree with the premise that it's because society hates them.

00:22:41.000 I don't agree with it because, matter of fact, minorities in this country, minorities historically, have a lower rate of suicide, right?

00:22:49.000 Black people have a two and a half times lower rate of suicide than white individuals.

00:22:52.000 Suicide, I don't know if you know, is almost entirely a middle-aged white male problem.

00:22:58.000 Also, I don't believe that they have it worse than Jews and Auschwitz because that's a 25% attempted suicide rate.

00:23:03.000 Do we believe that a transgender individual in 2022, because they can't set another women's swim meet record, is going to attempt suicide because they have a worse life than Jews in Auschwitz, they have a worse life, they're being treated worse in society than American slaves.

00:23:17.000 Nowhere else, nowhere else can you find this high of an attempted suicide rate outside of people with severe psychiatric conditions that we address.

00:23:28.000 And in this case we're saying, well no, rather than addressing someone, let's say who's paranoid schizophrenic, we're going to say no, those delusions are real.

00:23:35.000 That's what we're doing right now.

00:23:36.000 That's why the suicide rate is so high.

00:23:38.000 That's why it doesn't get better after treatment.

00:23:40.000 It's a very heartbreaking reality.

00:23:43.000 We've tried it this way now for a couple of decades, and it hasn't yielded good results.

00:23:47.000 It's yielded worse results.

00:23:48.000 So then you do think that transgenderism is a disease?

00:23:50.000 I mean, or do you think...

00:23:51.000 I think they, by their own declarations, there is rampant mental health issues in the transgender

00:24:00.000 community, right?

00:24:01.000 They have said that they...

00:24:02.000 But you think it's a disease.

00:24:03.000 You think it's something that needs to be ironed out.

00:24:04.000 You think that they just need to figure out how to feel happy in their body?

00:24:07.000 I think that if someone is biologically a male, I think right now, you're a man, right?

00:24:12.000 And I can tell that you're a man.

00:24:13.000 You can tell that I'm a man.

00:24:14.000 We don't need to do all the college doublespeak here.

00:24:18.000 I think for you to look down right now at your penis, and for you to go through with what it takes to cut that off, I want you to, this is a mental exercise, I want you to think about for a second, what kind of a mental place you would need to be in to hate your penis so much that you have it cut off and turned into a non-functioning vagina for the rest of your life.

00:24:38.000 Which, by the way, will very likely prevent you from ever achieving sexual climax again.

00:24:43.000 To think of the mental state that you would have to be in.

00:24:47.000 Genuinely, put yourself there.

00:24:49.000 That's not a healthy place to be mentally.

00:24:54.000 I don't know if it's as black and white as that.

00:24:56.000 I think there's a gray area where it's not just about, you know, cutting off your penis.

00:25:02.000 It's about feeling better in your own body.

00:25:04.000 It's about, if you look at yourself in the mirror, you know, and you look at your f***ing cock and you're like, oh man, I just, I can't live with this thing.

00:25:13.000 It doesn't feel like me.

00:25:16.000 Who am I to say, you know what, you can't go ahead and cut it off?

00:25:19.000 I mean, who are we to stop them from doing that?

00:25:21.000 I'm not saying you can't.

00:25:23.000 Right, I'm not saying you can't.

00:25:24.000 I just don't think it's fair to characterize it as hateful for me to say that seems pretty severe.

00:25:32.000 It seems extreme, but that also just shows how uncomfortable they feel in their body.

00:25:37.000 I mean, I can't imagine looking at myself every day and just not feeling like Myself.

00:25:45.000 I mean, if you had to live every day inside someone else's body and never feel like yourself, that's, that's hell.

00:25:51.000 Well, it's your own body.

00:25:52.000 Well, okay.

00:25:53.000 It is your own body.

00:25:54.000 You just believe it's someone else's body.

00:25:55.000 If it doesn't feel like your own.

00:25:56.000 If you're unhappy with it, if you're so, if you're, I mean, if it's so bad that you are talking about, you know, changing your body, getting bottom surgery, it's, it's, it is a bad mental state, but it's also.

00:26:09.000 Good.

00:26:10.000 We agree.

00:26:10.000 It's a bad mental state, but not in the same way that, And it's not corrected by going through with the transition.

00:26:16.000 It gets slightly worse.

00:26:18.000 I think that's on an individual case-by-case basis.

00:26:21.000 No, statistically.

00:26:21.000 And I think it depends.

00:26:22.000 The attempted suicide rate stays the same post-op.

00:26:25.000 And again, it's double that of Jews and Auschwitz.

00:26:27.000 Right.

00:26:28.000 And I think that matters.

00:26:29.000 I think that matters because people will throw out the moniker as you did, you know, hate.

00:26:33.000 There's no hate.

00:26:35.000 Just like I've had people in my family who, you know, have struggled with severe bipolar disorder.

00:26:40.000 I don't hate them when I say, look, you're not seeing things clearly.

00:26:43.000 I've had to do that.

00:26:45.000 I've had to have interventions and say, this is not accurate.

00:26:49.000 It's clouded by your mental health condition.

00:26:53.000 Not a disease, there's a difference between a psychiatric condition and a disease.

00:26:57.000 An actual disease state.

00:27:00.000 And I think to mischaracterize that as hate is also what creates this bully pulpit that causes real harm to women in women's sports.

00:27:08.000 And look, I think you care about people.

00:27:12.000 I would appreciate, though I don't demand, that you maybe recognize that I do as well.

00:27:18.000 I just have a different approach to it and different solution to it.

00:27:22.000 And I believe that women need to be defended just as much Just as much as other people do.

00:27:30.000 And I think we agree on the third division.

00:27:33.000 I agree.

00:27:34.000 I don't think that you're a hateful person, but I think that your efforts to help and fix the trans community are misguided.

00:27:42.000 And I think that your efforts could be better spent helping them.

00:27:46.000 With the platform that you have, with the audience that you have, you could do so much to make their lives better.

00:27:51.000 In a way that, you know, in a way that you don't have to advocate for them, Well, I think we have a pretty big voice right now, as we see.

00:27:57.000 Women of the year, right?

00:27:58.000 We have trans there.

00:28:00.000 Female admiral, not woman admiral, female admiral Rachel Levine just had a man, a transgender woman, sorry, biological male, transgender woman, just win a medal at the NCAA swim meet.

00:28:12.000 And today I'm choosing to use my voice for the Overwhelming majority of female athletes who often sort of get silenced.

00:28:18.000 That's fair, but how often do you choose your voice to talk about suicide translating?

00:28:23.000 I just did.

00:28:25.000 I just did.

00:28:25.000 That was through something else.

00:28:27.000 Yeah, I just did.

00:28:28.000 We've done that.

00:28:28.000 We've done their only two gender exchange online.

00:28:30.000 That's a separate discussion.

00:28:31.000 But today we're specifically talking about sports.

00:28:33.000 But thank you, brother.

00:28:34.000 It's freezing.

00:28:34.000 Get some hot packs or something.

00:28:36.000 Thanks, Hugh.

00:28:37.000 There you have it.

00:28:38.000 While Hugh and I didn't find a lot of common ground, I appreciate that he was able to actually sit down and listen to an opposing point of view while presenting his own.

00:28:46.000 If you want to learn more about this channel's point of view, be sure to subscribe, and most of all, just tune in to The Daily Show, Monday through Thursday, live at 10 a.m.

00:28:53.000 Eastern.

00:28:53.000 They can't all be change my mind, mostly due to the security costs, but live weekday morning shows is the next best thing.

00:29:00.000 See you tomorrow.

00:29:01.000 Back to the topic at hand, of course, The college campus is filled with many a strange beast, as you've all well seen.

00:29:09.000 However, there are a lot of great people that come out to change my mind, and this day was no exception.

00:29:13.000 We came across a number of kind and intelligent students, and some of them, like this young lady, even offered some valuable insight.

00:29:22.000 Fair enough.

00:29:23.000 Thank you for your contribution, sweetheart.

00:29:25.000 Next up, and our final interview, we have our boy Jackson.

00:29:28.000 Let's close this one on a strong note.

00:29:30.000 Jackson, don't know how familiar you are at all with kind of what this segment is or what

00:29:34.000 it is that we do, but it's the opportunity to hopefully rationalize our positions on

00:29:39.000 what are sort of controversial topics.

00:29:41.000 What I've noticed is people will often have rational discussions on topics that are maybe

00:29:44.000 inconsequential and something that, you know, evokes a visceral or emotional response, it

00:29:49.000 goes out the window.

00:29:50.000 And unfortunately, on college campus, college campuses across the country, you often are

00:29:54.000 only presented with one point of view.

00:29:56.000 And so hopefully this allows people to be able to expose themselves to different points

00:29:59.000 of view.

00:30:00.000 So today, obviously, this is something we were planning to talk about for a while.

00:30:04.000 And then we just had the NCAA swim meet this last weekend.

00:30:08.000 So now it's a hot button issue.

00:30:10.000 I don't believe that biological males should be allowed to compete with women.

00:30:17.000 In sports.

00:30:17.000 Sure.

00:30:18.000 If you disagree with that, I'd love to hear your case.

00:30:21.000 You're more than welcome to change my mind.

00:30:23.000 I find it interesting as well that when you come to college campuses, it is, you know, usually biased in one direction.

00:30:23.000 I could try.

00:30:30.000 In recent times, this campus has been a little bit more mixed.

00:30:32.000 I'm sure you came here because of the recent news.

00:30:35.000 What do you mean it's biased in one direction?

00:30:37.000 Usually, a campus is, depending on a geographical location, is going to be biased in a political direction, left or right.

00:30:44.000 Well, it's always left.

00:30:46.000 Depends.

00:30:48.000 What college campus would you give me an example of that's biased right?

00:30:50.000 I mean, we're in Texas, man.

00:30:52.000 Yeah, I can't think of one.

00:30:53.000 I mean, the only one I can think of really in the country would be A&M, and even then, when you look at professors and stuff like that, it's pretty... A&M definitely is conservative.

00:31:00.000 I didn't mean to interrupt you, but... No, no, that's fine.

00:31:02.000 A&M definitely is conservative, but, you know, there's a large... the mass majority of Texas is, you know, country towns.

00:31:09.000 I came from a little country town.

00:31:11.000 My high school graduation class was 200 people, so it's like... I gotta tell you, I've never gone to a college campus and experienced conservative bias.

00:31:17.000 Statistically, that's almost non-existent.

00:31:19.000 I can give you the least schools you should go to, because you would love them.

00:31:21.000 Like private Christian colleges, I can imagine, but... No, no, no, public schools.

00:31:23.000 Public colleges.

00:31:24.000 Really?

00:31:25.000 In the state of Texas.

00:31:25.000 That are conservatively biased.

00:31:27.000 A&M is definitely one.

00:31:28.000 Texas Tech, definitely one.

00:31:30.000 You know, Raider Rash is their thing, so... Okay.

00:31:33.000 Either way, it's besides the point.

00:31:35.000 No, no, look, it's not something that I've experienced.

00:31:37.000 There's a lot of people that think just like you.

00:31:39.000 Well, that's not really where I go to visit.

00:31:40.000 That's why I visit places like UT and places like UNT.

00:31:45.000 Well, UT's a little bit mixed, too.

00:31:47.000 UT Austin?

00:31:47.000 UT Austin's pretty damn liberal.

00:31:49.000 Yeah, UT Austin's pretty liberal.

00:31:50.000 No, I prefer to actually have conversations with people from opposing points of view.

00:31:54.000 That's kind of one of the things that we do, because I don't really like an echo chamber, left or right.

00:32:01.000 So, yeah, I know it would be really easy for me to sit down with nothing, but as a matter of fact, today we haven't had a single conservative sit down.

00:32:06.000 And that's because we give the right of way to people who disagree.

00:32:06.000 Yeah.

00:32:08.000 I mean, there are conservatives here.

00:32:09.000 I see what you mean.

00:32:09.000 No, there are.

00:32:10.000 There are, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:32:11.000 Now, of course, we're not going to have someone who tried to throw a, you know, a, whatever it was, a frozen latte or milkshake.

00:32:16.000 Somebody threw something at you?

00:32:17.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, right there.

00:32:18.000 You see?

00:32:18.000 Oh, I see.

00:32:19.000 It's a waste of a good Frosty.

00:32:21.000 Well, either way.

00:32:22.000 I don't know if it's a Frosty or not, but... I haven't acted violently or anything.

00:32:24.000 No, I appreciate it.

00:32:25.000 I like a good conversation.

00:32:27.000 So I'm sure you would condemn the violence and the disruption as well.

00:32:27.000 Well, good.

00:32:30.000 It definitely is not necessary.

00:32:32.000 Yeah, it's not.

00:32:32.000 I don't even know what this guy's doing either with the Yoda thing.

00:32:35.000 He's just doing him.

00:32:36.000 I don't know.

00:32:37.000 That's definitely a probe to see where I'm at.

00:32:39.000 I don't know what radical trans liberation now means, but okay.

00:32:42.000 I'm not sure either.

00:32:43.000 It's a little bit of a mixed message.

00:32:45.000 I appreciate that you and I can find some common ground on that.

00:32:49.000 I would almost argue it's nonsensical.

00:32:51.000 A Yoda mask and radical trans liberation now?

00:32:54.000 I don't know what inference to make, and he won't speak, so it's not like I'm going to be able to figure it out.

00:33:00.000 He's just doing it.

00:33:01.000 He's just, well, he's just being a little bit of a p***.

00:33:05.000 But, yeah, I don't think that biological males should be able to compete with women.

00:33:10.000 Biological women in female sports.

00:33:13.000 What do you disagree with on that, and how would you want to change that?

00:33:15.000 I think, as a whole, that issue...

00:33:19.000 It's only in the current times.

00:33:22.000 Our world is changing every day.

00:33:23.000 And especially on this campus, you can see a lot of different opinions and views and different people doing what they want to do.

00:33:30.000 And I don't feel that that affects me in any way.

00:33:32.000 When it comes to sports, it's a little different.

00:33:35.000 I think this time in history is very special because we are so connected.

00:33:39.000 We've been connected for a few decades now, but at this point, really, we're exploring that connection even more.

00:33:44.000 What do you mean by connected?

00:33:45.000 The internet.

00:33:46.000 Okay.

00:33:47.000 So just this connection.

00:33:48.000 I think there could be a strong case that we're not very connected.

00:33:50.000 I don't know if you've been on Twitter lately.

00:33:52.000 Oh, I have.

00:33:52.000 I don't feel warmly connected to my fellow man.

00:33:54.000 But no, I agree with your point.

00:33:56.000 Not, you know, connected, it doesn't always have to be positive.

00:33:58.000 Yes, exactly.

00:33:59.000 We can be connected in assholeishness.

00:34:00.000 Yeah, sure.

00:34:01.000 Sure.

00:34:01.000 Yeah, I have free speech, but Twitter's a little different.

00:34:04.000 Either way.

00:34:05.000 Yeah.

00:34:05.000 I think... It's Satan's rectum, Twitter.

00:34:09.000 Interesting.

00:34:10.000 Okay, well, either way.

00:34:11.000 Figuratively.

00:34:13.000 Sports are different.

00:34:15.000 I think this time, everything's changing every day.

00:34:17.000 I think sports, at one point, there shouldn't be gender involved.

00:34:23.000 I feel like it should just be... Well, it's not involved.

00:34:25.000 Gender's not involved in sports.

00:34:27.000 How do you mean?

00:34:28.000 It's sex.

00:34:29.000 Yeah.

00:34:30.000 Are you saying that gender and sex are the same thing?

00:34:32.000 No, I misspoke.

00:34:33.000 But sure, sex.

00:34:34.000 I'll replace that.

00:34:35.000 Well, I'm not trying to correct you.

00:34:39.000 Actually, I appreciate that you're being consistent because I have had people sit down today and say that sex and gender are the same thing.

00:34:47.000 I'm not 100% sure.

00:34:49.000 The news is changing every day.

00:34:50.000 So, I'll go with sex for now.

00:34:53.000 As long as... Well, that's what gender theory is, right?

00:34:55.000 That's what modern gender studies is.

00:34:57.000 And this goes back to Simone de Beauvoir and Judith... Biological sex is what you mean.

00:35:00.000 It goes through John Money, Judith Butler.

00:35:02.000 And by the way, these people who believe that gender was a social construct, they still believe that people could maybe be Man or woman within the societal construct, but it was always within a binary.

00:35:11.000 You're only talking about the 1990s when that changed this idea that there could be many different genders.

00:35:16.000 But even on this campus right now, in your gender studies classes, they teach that gender is societal, social construct, and sex is biological.

00:35:24.000 That is the current curriculum.

00:35:27.000 Interesting.

00:35:28.000 And I just want to make sure that we're clear on that.

00:35:29.000 No, listen to me.

00:35:30.000 I think that what you were saying is consistent, so I actually do appreciate that.

00:35:33.000 Yeah, I'm consistent as is Keith, I don't know.

00:35:36.000 Either way, sports, right now, there's not a lot, there's a lot happening, is what I'm saying.

00:35:42.000 Either way, in a few years, I'd like to see just, and not based on gender or sex or anything, it's just, this is basketball, we all play, you know what I mean?

00:35:51.000 I know you might think I'm crazy, but I mean... No, I don't.

00:35:54.000 I just think that you just ended women's sports forever.

00:35:57.000 No, no, exactly not.

00:35:58.000 The issue is not in... I see what you mean.

00:36:02.000 The biological differences in male... Yeah, women wouldn't be able to compete ever.

00:36:05.000 They would just lose at every sport.

00:36:06.000 With the exception of shooting sports.

00:36:09.000 I think there should be... I'm not a professional, obviously.

00:36:12.000 I'm not well-versed in this field.

00:36:14.000 I'm not... I'm only in, you know, a few sports.

00:36:17.000 Either way, this...

00:36:19.000 This sports issue, I feel like it's just a topic to grab onto that are happening right this second.

00:36:26.000 It wouldn't be happening in a few years.

00:36:27.000 Maybe we would figure something else out.

00:36:29.000 What do you mean in a few years?

00:36:30.000 How would we figure it out?

00:36:31.000 There would be some discussion here.

00:36:33.000 Well, that's what we're having.

00:36:34.000 Exactly right now.

00:36:35.000 But you just...

00:36:35.000 Discussion.

00:36:38.000 I'm not trying to be a smart-ass here, but correct me if I'm wrong, I just heard you say that it's just everyone playing together.

00:36:42.000 Sure.

00:36:43.000 Yeah, that's what I said.

00:36:44.000 Okay, so that's what you think we should move toward?

00:36:46.000 Sure.

00:36:46.000 And you understand that that would... I think that's an option.

00:36:48.000 You understand there are no more female athletes?

00:36:50.000 I think that male and female are equal.

00:36:53.000 I know there are biological differences in strength and that kind of thing.

00:36:56.000 Well, that's what sports are about.

00:36:58.000 Exactly, I understand that.

00:36:59.000 But, these sports aren't always going to be, you know, the rules change every day.

00:37:03.000 That kind of thing?

00:37:05.000 The NBA's rules are not the same as 10 years ago, 20 years ago.

00:37:08.000 There's new rules at every point in time.

00:37:11.000 So I feel like we would be able to figure something else out.

00:37:17.000 It wouldn't just be one issue changing at the same time.

00:37:20.000 We would combine the sports.

00:37:21.000 There would also be new legislation inside of the, if that's the right word for it, inside of the NBA or any sports category.

00:37:30.000 To try and make it so that women could compete?

00:37:33.000 Sure.

00:37:36.000 How would you, for example, let's take the NFL.

00:37:41.000 Let's take, I don't know if there is women's contact football, honestly.

00:37:45.000 Yeah, there is.

00:37:45.000 There is?

00:37:46.000 Yeah.

00:37:46.000 Okay.

00:37:49.000 Let's take, well you know what, let me take an example, not to be anecdotal, but I'm taking an example that has actually taken place because there haven't been that many, you know, intersex sporting matches.

00:37:58.000 But what does take place pretty regularly, and it's a non-contact sport, soccer.

00:38:02.000 So the Women's National Soccer Champions, have you seen this?

00:38:05.000 No, I haven't.

00:38:06.000 Yeah, it's like the Women's, I don't know if it's the National Soccer Champions or like the Women's World Cup winners will regularly play high school boys and lose.

00:38:14.000 Interesting.

00:38:15.000 So what rule sets do you think you could, rather than just going with, right, what we have, which is male and female sports for the safety and fairness of the players, right?

00:38:25.000 It's to protect the players and to protect their opportunities.

00:38:27.000 I feel like that one is the better one.

00:38:29.000 Well, okay, what would we change as far as rules that would somehow offer women who have not only less strength, not only less muscle mass, not only higher body fat, not only lower bone density, not only 80% lower connective tissue strength, not only less lung capacity, not only lower VO2 max, not only a lower red blood cell count, Not to mention general height and dimensions.

00:38:58.000 What rule changes do you think could possibly be implemented, for example, in soccer, wrestling, basketball, football, swimming, that would allow an even playing field for biological women?

00:39:15.000 I like that you're trying to bombard me with all these topics, but I'll pick one.

00:39:18.000 Well, I'm just saying, look, we know that men... No, I understand what you're saying.

00:39:22.000 Do we disagree that biological males have a significant athletic advantage over biological females as a general rule?

00:39:28.000 Biological male and female are separate.

00:39:30.000 They're different, but that doesn't have to occur.

00:39:34.000 I'm saying with time, there could be medical advancements to change how the male and female bodies work.

00:39:39.000 That's exactly what biological females who are claiming to be men, that's exactly what they're taking.

00:39:44.000 called steroids. That's a little different. No it absolutely is. That's exactly what

00:39:49.000 what biological females who are claiming to be men, that's exactly what they're taking.

00:39:54.000 Claiming to be? Yeah.

00:39:57.000 Trans men.

00:39:58.000 Yeah, they're taking steroids.

00:40:00.000 I see.

00:40:01.000 You do know that, right?

00:40:01.000 Yeah, they take hormones.

00:40:03.000 Yeah.

00:40:04.000 As well as steroids.

00:40:05.000 Anabolic.

00:40:05.000 Hormones.

00:40:06.000 Steroids are illegal.

00:40:07.000 Currently.

00:40:08.000 Right.

00:40:09.000 I'm trying to make the point of, in time, we never know.

00:40:12.000 Maybe they should all be legal.

00:40:14.000 Let the games begin.

00:40:15.000 Everyone is on steroids.

00:40:16.000 Yeah.

00:40:17.000 They all die very young because of cancer.

00:40:19.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:40:21.000 I'm not saying the current steroids.

00:40:23.000 I think you see what I'm saying.

00:40:24.000 With time, this could all happen.

00:40:27.000 Okay, but we're today, 2022.

00:40:28.000 It's not possible.

00:40:30.000 We just had someone who was a biological male, who is a middling to low-end male swimmer, who just won first place, who just beat out a silver medalist.

00:40:40.000 Very hard to get a silver medal, by the way.

00:40:42.000 Beat a female silver medalist.

00:40:44.000 Sure.

00:40:45.000 With a time that wouldn't even rank top 500 against men.

00:40:49.000 The point you're making, I understand it completely.

00:40:53.000 It would not apply in the future.

00:40:54.000 It may not apply in the future.

00:40:56.000 That's exactly right.

00:40:56.000 But it certainly applies today.

00:40:58.000 So what do we do today?

00:40:59.000 Can't do anything today.

00:41:00.000 Well, at least I can.

00:41:02.000 So, but will we agree then today that we need to continue with ensuring the safety and fairness for players, specifically for female athletic opportunities?

00:41:10.000 I believe that just like how there is in states like California, there's testing with marijuana use in different areas.

00:41:16.000 And the state government is governing that rather than the federal government, and the federal government is letting it as a test run.

00:41:22.000 Same kind of thing.

00:41:23.000 Sports right now, it's kind of just a test run.

00:41:26.000 There's no offense to any athletes whatsoever, but everyone's trying their best.

00:41:30.000 We always have.

00:41:32.000 But I feel that we've got to have some test runs to figure this stuff out.

00:41:36.000 We can't just argue about it right now.

00:41:37.000 Well, I understand what you're saying and I appreciate your idea, you know, sort of presenting the idea of federalism to sports.

00:41:43.000 That's not lost on me.

00:41:46.000 That being said, we have the empirical evidence, you know, the evidence like I just presented as far as the difference in physiology.

00:41:52.000 That doesn't change.

00:41:53.000 Maybe many years from now it'll change.

00:41:55.000 We can't do anything right this second.

00:41:56.000 By the way, his wife was a horrendous bitch.

00:41:58.000 She took his whole wallet when he was giving her that cash.

00:42:01.000 She takes the wallet and doesn't even give him enough gas money to get home.

00:42:04.000 Especially now, knowing what we know about gas prices today, what do you think they're going to be in the Jetsons future?

00:42:07.000 I digress.

00:42:08.000 I mean, I love the Jetsons.

00:42:10.000 I do too.

00:42:10.000 I love every character, but I wouldn't tell anyone a bitch.

00:42:12.000 Okay, well I think Mrs. Jetson, at the very least, she's pushing the envelope there.

00:42:17.000 I think that's theft.

00:42:19.000 Uh, and also that robot maid.

00:42:21.000 That robot maid.

00:42:22.000 Come on.

00:42:22.000 I'm telling you, that's the future.

00:42:24.000 Yeah, that's the future.

00:42:24.000 I mean, if you compare that to the future, we have no idea what's going to happen tomorrow.

00:42:27.000 But, uh, we have no idea, but we know what's happening today.

00:42:30.000 So there's the empirical data, which is all these differences that, obviously, the male athlete benefits from biologically.

00:42:36.000 That's undeniable.

00:42:37.000 Um, and then there's the anecdotal.

00:42:40.000 Well, we have Leah Thomas, but that's not the only example.

00:42:42.000 You have men who've then switched, biological males who've then switched to females, who've set records in cycling, who've won track, right?

00:42:51.000 I think in track it's, for example, let's say it's 1% of the population.

00:42:54.000 It might be 1 to 1.6% of the athletic student body that are trans, but they will, in certain sports, dominate 66% of the top spots.

00:43:01.000 90% in powerlifting, right?

00:43:04.000 Mary Gregory was a powerlifter, set these all-time records for women.

00:43:08.000 There's cycling, there's swimming like we've just discussed, there's powerlifting, there's Olympic weightlifting.

00:43:15.000 Laurel Hubbard who made it, who won these medals until Laurel Hubbard made it to the Olympics and then due to an injury had to pull out and also was 43, which is not typical of Olympians.

00:43:24.000 There have been over 80 opportunities, meaning scholarships and international rankings, that have been yanked out from under women today because of this new experiment.

00:43:34.000 We know that when you allow the biological male to compete against biological women, that it's an unfair playing field today.

00:43:41.000 And it's not even close.

00:43:43.000 There are obvious biological differences.

00:43:45.000 I understand what you're saying.

00:43:46.000 But I feel as if whether or not they're trans or not is just a current day issue.

00:43:53.000 Okay.

00:43:54.000 I think you would agree.

00:43:55.000 But it is a current day issue.

00:43:56.000 Exactly.

00:43:56.000 So what do we do today?

00:43:58.000 I can't say.

00:43:59.000 I don't know.

00:44:00.000 What is the right thing to do?

00:44:01.000 The right thing to do is... The right thing to do today.

00:44:05.000 With male and female sports?

00:44:07.000 I think... I'll get to it real quick.

00:44:09.000 Okay.

00:44:09.000 The right thing to do is obviously complicated.

00:44:12.000 You know, no matter what you do, you're going to annoy someone.

00:44:16.000 I don't think it's complicated.

00:44:17.000 I think the first part is... You don't think it's complicated?

00:44:18.000 No, I think you'll annoy somebody, but I don't think it's complicated, as far as the right thing to do.

00:44:22.000 Would you say that coming to an agreement is always 100% one direction?

00:44:26.000 Wait, what do you mean?

00:44:27.000 Coming to an agreement.

00:44:28.000 Like, say, an election.

00:44:29.000 Yeah.

00:44:30.000 It's not usually one way.

00:44:31.000 Somebody's gonna be mad either way.

00:44:32.000 Right.

00:44:33.000 So, in this way, we have to, you know, tread lightly to figure out what would be the right way to go.

00:44:39.000 Capitulate to less than 1% of the population at the expense of 50% of the population.

00:44:44.000 Less than 1 to 50?

00:44:44.000 Yeah, less than 1% being transgender individuals.

00:44:48.000 By switching up the way that we've done sports, again, which exists... I can't confirm the statistic, but keep going.

00:44:54.000 Yeah, the highest number I've ever heard is 1.6% of the population is trans.

00:44:59.000 Sure.

00:45:00.000 Let's call it one.

00:45:01.000 Let's call it one to two percent.

00:45:02.000 Does that sound fair?

00:45:03.000 One to two percent.

00:45:04.000 I have no idea of the statistics, so I think... I'll give you a one to two spread, okay?

00:45:08.000 And some numbers are even lower than that.

00:45:09.000 So I'm trying to pick the number that I think is most generous.

00:45:11.000 One point something percent.

00:45:13.000 But fifty percent of the population are female.

00:45:17.000 Sure.

00:45:18.000 And a hundred percent, at least up until recently, of female athletic competitors We're biological females.

00:45:24.000 So to capitulate here, when we're trying to not offend 1-point-something percent of the population, we are, unfortunately, shortchanging 50 percent.

00:45:33.000 Women, who want to compete.

00:45:35.000 Listen, this affects their lives, right?

00:45:37.000 Scholarships, getting a scholarship, getting an Olympic medal, getting a coaching job.

00:45:41.000 These things have serious ramifications, right?

00:45:44.000 Sport is a great way for people.

00:45:46.000 Particularly those of lower socioeconomic status.

00:45:48.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:45:49.000 It equalizes the playing field.

00:45:50.000 And now we're making that unfair because a certain very small percentage might be offended.

00:45:55.000 This specific issue would be best talked about by a female athlete or just a female altogether.

00:46:00.000 I'm a white male.

00:46:03.000 My input here is not as valuable as a female athlete or a female altogether.

00:46:07.000 No matter if they're trans or not.

00:46:09.000 You know what?

00:46:09.000 I actually agree with you on that.

00:46:11.000 I actually... Well, I don't agree with you in that you can't have an opinion.

00:46:14.000 I think your opinion, depending... Sorry, I just touched your leg.

00:46:21.000 It also gets warm.

00:46:23.000 It's the only warm thing around here.

00:46:24.000 Where are you guys usually based?

00:46:27.000 We're just around Texas, general area.

00:46:29.000 I keep it ghost-like.

00:46:30.000 And by the way, that dog is as cute as a button.

00:46:33.000 It's very distracting to me right now.

00:46:37.000 What were we talking about this before?

00:46:38.000 Sorry, that dog was just... What were we talking about?

00:46:42.000 That's the problem with cute puppies.

00:46:45.000 It's right in my line of vision.

00:46:48.000 The marginal differences and then comparing that...

00:46:53.000 The damn puppy ruined it for the rest of us.

00:46:55.000 Oh, no, you said that you were a white male.

00:46:56.000 Oh, yes, exactly.

00:46:57.000 I think that if your opinion is founded on sound research and data, and it's based in fact, yeah, I think it doesn't matter if you're a white male, and it doesn't matter if you're a black male, it doesn't matter if you're a black female, white trans, I think there's a correct opinion at the end of the day, or there's correct information and there's incorrect information, and sometimes you make an inference based on that.

00:47:16.000 Now, I do agree with you, however, Women, in many cases, particularly feminists, have said, no vagina, no opinion.

00:47:23.000 And so they have marginalized the opinions of men on this issue, which is interesting to me, because there's a pretty big spread if you actually look at the polling data.

00:47:36.000 And I usually don't like to point to polls, except in this scenario, where you're polling female athletes, like their opinions obviously matter.

00:47:41.000 So if you look at men, generally speaking, if you look at poll after poll, when they ask men, should biological males be allowed to compete in women's sports, men overwhelmingly say no.

00:47:51.000 Which is interesting because we don't really have a dog in that fight.

00:47:53.000 No biological female has come over and dominated the men's sports.

00:47:56.000 It doesn't happen.

00:47:57.000 It's never happened.

00:47:58.000 But overwhelmingly, non-female athletes have supported it, saying, sure.

00:48:03.000 Because women, generally speaking, are empathetic people, right?

00:48:06.000 They're understanding people.

00:48:07.000 I think that's a great quality of women.

00:48:09.000 I believe that's some form of bias, in that form.

00:48:11.000 Like, I feel like I'm a very empathetic person.

00:48:14.000 Sure, I think you are, but I think as a general rule, women are more conscientious than most men.

00:48:18.000 I see what you mean, but I don't agree.

00:48:21.000 Well, I think if you look at the polling, you know, men are more pragmatic in the sense they go like, well, no, that's not fair.

00:48:25.000 Men shouldn't be able to compete against women, so they oppose it.

00:48:27.000 Then you look at women who are not female athletes, they support it.

00:48:30.000 Then you look at the polling of female athletes, they're against it.

00:48:34.000 Because most of the feminists who say biological men should be allowed to compete in women's sports don't have a dog in that fight.

00:48:40.000 All of a sudden, when you pull the female athletes, it's very different.

00:48:43.000 Yeah, I could see what you mean, but at the same time, my point still stands.

00:48:48.000 I am not, you know, a woman, and you're not a woman, I don't think, at least.

00:48:52.000 I wouldn't assume.

00:48:53.000 You did assume, and you assumed correct.

00:48:55.000 But okay, either way.

00:48:58.000 The difference is, we We don't wake up every day as a female.

00:49:04.000 We don't go through our lives getting catcalled or these kind of things.

00:49:07.000 These horrendous things.

00:49:08.000 I'm sure you have a wife or a girlfriend of some form.

00:49:10.000 And you here, you know, it's not easy.

00:49:13.000 Sure.

00:49:14.000 And my life's not that bad.

00:49:16.000 Like, I can't complain.

00:49:18.000 There's not a lot of things that I have to deal with because I was born this way.

00:49:24.000 It's interesting seeing... Was that a Lady Gaga reference?

00:49:29.000 I like the fact that, but either way, you know, certain things like, this may sound stupid, but I drive a purple truck, okay?

00:49:36.000 You drive a purple truck?

00:49:37.000 Yeah, purple truck.

00:49:38.000 Why's that stupid?

00:49:39.000 No, I love my truck, it's not stupid.

00:49:41.000 The point I'm about to make is interesting.

00:49:42.000 That purple truck makes you a pump!

00:49:46.000 Interesting.

00:49:47.000 Purple's a pimp color.

00:49:48.000 Another one with that.

00:49:48.000 I love purple.

00:49:49.000 Keep your pimpin' strong, man.

00:49:50.000 The point I'm trying to make is I get profiled for driving that vehicle.

00:49:55.000 So, in my little country towns, you know, I'm profiled because that vehicle's driven mostly by a certain type of people.

00:50:02.000 Who?

00:50:03.000 Pimps?

00:50:04.000 I don't know.

00:50:05.000 Either way, I get pulled over and... Wait, are you saying that you get profiled because they think it's a black guy or because they think it's a gay guy?

00:50:12.000 No, it's definitely not either of those.

00:50:15.000 Either way, on my ticket... Wait, what do you mean it's not either of those?

00:50:18.000 How are you being profile?

00:50:19.000 I don't understand.

00:50:19.000 Listen, on my ticket, I get, as you know, they pull up to me and everything.

00:50:25.000 They already write the ticket out.

00:50:26.000 My race is incorrect every ticket I've received.

00:50:30.000 What race do they write?

00:50:32.000 Hispanic is the race that they write.

00:50:34.000 Oh, okay.

00:50:35.000 Interesting.

00:50:36.000 So, either way... Is it an El Camino?

00:50:38.000 No.

00:50:40.000 That's a little interesting.

00:50:42.000 Why is that interesting?

00:50:44.000 Because I wouldn't think purple truck Hispanic.

00:50:47.000 You're not from a bunch of towns.

00:50:48.000 Alright.

00:50:50.000 I assume, at least.

00:50:51.000 I don't know.

00:50:51.000 Is it like more of a mauve?

00:50:53.000 Or are we talking like Joker purple?

00:50:55.000 It's completely deep purple.

00:50:58.000 That sounds like a nice truck!

00:50:59.000 Yeah, it's a beautiful truck.

00:51:00.000 Either way.

00:51:03.000 What I'm trying to say is, if I can make a comparison or a metaphor of some form, my purple truck was born how it is, born, you know, in a factory, but I'm not complaining whatsoever, I do not mind, but I have been profiled for that truck.

00:51:20.000 So if you can make the comparison to a female living in this world... Yeah.

00:51:24.000 You know, I can't say for sure, but you know, I've had girlfriends, like, it's not easy.

00:51:30.000 And even more so for someone who is trans, or someone who is non-binary, or someone who is... I was with you up until that last point.

00:51:38.000 Yeah, I agree with you that it's not easy.

00:51:41.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:51:41.000 And I don't think we should make it harder on women by allowing biological males to kick the shit out of them.

00:51:46.000 It shouldn't be harder on anyone.

00:51:47.000 I feel that people should be equal.

00:51:50.000 People can be empathetic no matter their sex.

00:51:53.000 People can be whoever they want to be.

00:51:55.000 And I think the current times are going to change.

00:51:59.000 People can't be whoever they want to be or whatever they want to be.

00:52:02.000 I believe they can.

00:52:03.000 There are biological and physiological limitations to everybody.

00:52:06.000 There's ethical differences.

00:52:09.000 Things like murder.

00:52:10.000 I wouldn't want to be Hitler.

00:52:12.000 There are biological realities.

00:52:13.000 There are physical realities.

00:52:14.000 For example, your height is your height.

00:52:17.000 Your bone density is your bone density.

00:52:18.000 You can get a surgery to change your height.

00:52:20.000 You can get a surgery to change your height, but again we're talking about extreme exceptions to the rule, the general rule.

00:52:26.000 There are still, and by the way that is still not creating a world in which you weren't designed with biological limitations.

00:52:34.000 I understand what you're saying, you've managed to use surgical, modern surgical medical advancements to maybe change your height.

00:52:42.000 It's not the same thing as claiming you weren't born a certain height.

00:52:47.000 That's where we differ, definitely.

00:52:49.000 The difference is, you weren't physically that way, but in your mind, you know, you may be something different.

00:52:54.000 You know, if you decide tomorrow you want blonde hair, are you going to dye your hair?

00:52:57.000 You know, you weren't blonde, but maybe you could say... But we're not talking about blonde-haired guys competing against... Yeah, but it's not a... I would say it's not a valid comparison when we're discussing... I think, look, I think we're... I appreciate what you're saying.

00:53:09.000 And I do think that you're right, that there are going to be, as a matter of fact, I've talked about this, if you can live probably another 30, 40 years, you'll be a part of a generation that can live significantly longer, or probably never much longer than 120 years old, but live healthily until your later age.

00:53:24.000 I mean, even right now, we're seeing this hormone replacement therapy as you get older.

00:53:28.000 As a matter of fact, that's a big problem.

00:53:30.000 It's also a problem with transgender hormone replacement therapy, because we know how cancergenic it is.

00:53:36.000 No, it's not debatable.

00:53:37.000 We know that if you inject estrogen or you provide excess estrogen to the male endocrine system, that it's not good.

00:53:44.000 As a matter of fact, do you know what the first thing is if you're a woman with high estrogen levels?

00:53:47.000 And if you're a woman, you have breast cancer.

00:53:50.000 First thing they put you on.

00:53:52.000 I just... Aromatase inhibitors.

00:53:53.000 Estrogen blockers.

00:53:53.000 I understand what you're saying.

00:53:54.000 I thoroughly enjoy that.

00:53:57.000 I know everyone makes this point, but you do come to college campuses.

00:53:59.000 You know, I'm pursuing my education.

00:54:01.000 Well, we do this, by the way, we also do this not on college campuses.

00:54:04.000 I understand, but you know, the ones that go popular.

00:54:06.000 The reason you keep coming back is for the college ones.

00:54:09.000 We actually do just as many on street corners.

00:54:11.000 I'm sure you do just as many.

00:54:13.000 But what do we do today in 2022?

00:54:14.000 With male and female sports?

00:54:16.000 I cannot say.

00:54:16.000 I'm not a female.

00:54:17.000 I'm not transgender.

00:54:18.000 I'm not, you know, in these sports.

00:54:20.000 Okay, but let's say an overwhelming majority of females say, it's not fair.

00:54:24.000 But then transgenders, this is where we are, biological men, biological males who say that they are the woman gender, say, well, I want to compete with biological females.

00:54:35.000 But the biological females say, no, it's not fair.

00:54:37.000 What do we do?

00:54:39.000 I can't say.

00:54:40.000 These type of rules and things... But there do need to be rules.

00:54:45.000 Of course there has to be rules to this world.

00:54:46.000 So what's the solution?

00:54:48.000 I can't say.

00:54:48.000 We understand that we can't live in a world where that's the case.

00:54:52.000 We do have to have rules.

00:54:53.000 This current world is a testing ground for tomorrow.

00:54:58.000 Everything we do today is just going to affect how we do tomorrow.

00:55:01.000 So what do we do today?

00:55:02.000 Can't say.

00:55:03.000 Okay, so then I will just say, I'll hang my balls out there, and it's very cold outside, so they're going to be tiny.

00:55:09.000 Raisinets.

00:55:10.000 We do it the way we've always done it, and we do it in accordance with what most biological female athletes want.

00:55:15.000 Biological males, regardless of how you identify, compete with biological males.

00:55:20.000 Biological females compete with biological females.

00:55:22.000 I think, I understand exactly what you're saying, and your point could directly be compared to women's suffrage.

00:55:28.000 You know, males at the time of women's suffrage wanted, you know, They wanted it to be the way it was.

00:55:34.000 Actually, that's not true.

00:55:35.000 Did you know that?

00:55:36.000 I don't believe it.

00:55:37.000 Yeah.

00:55:37.000 Did you know that actually it was a majority of women didn't want the right to vote?

00:55:40.000 Did you know that?

00:55:41.000 I can't confirm your statistics.

00:55:42.000 Yeah.

00:55:42.000 Well, let me explain to you why, actually.

00:55:43.000 It's very interesting.

00:55:44.000 I had a lady named Karen Strong on the show, and this is kind of her specialty.

00:55:46.000 Karen?

00:55:47.000 Yeah, Karen Strong.

00:55:48.000 Yeah, I know.

00:55:48.000 Her name is Karen Strong.

00:55:50.000 And she is.

00:55:50.000 She's a feminist.

00:55:52.000 And the reason for this was, well, first off, women's suffrage, right?

00:55:55.000 You're talking about women getting the right to vote.

00:55:57.000 How'd that happen?

00:55:59.000 Of course, the voice of women to be heard.

00:56:02.000 No, no.

00:56:02.000 How did women get the right to vote?

00:56:05.000 Women's voices were heard.

00:56:07.000 Okay, how were they heard?

00:56:08.000 You know I can't answer those questions exactly.

00:56:11.000 So, you're just trying to embarrass me.

00:56:13.000 No, I'm really not.

00:56:15.000 Men were the exclusive right holders to voting, right?

00:56:19.000 Women were not allowed to vote, right?

00:56:21.000 Sure.

00:56:21.000 Okay.

00:56:22.000 Then, women were allowed to vote.

00:56:23.000 Sure.

00:56:24.000 So, there was a change.

00:56:25.000 Who changed it?

00:56:26.000 The change was made by the human race.

00:56:28.000 The change was made by men.

00:56:30.000 Women didn't have a say in the vote if they could vote, right?

00:56:32.000 My point is... No, my point is this is a misrepresentation.

00:56:35.000 This is a misrepresentation that men... Well, no, my point here is this is a misrepresentation and I think it matters because if you don't understand history fully, you're doomed to repeat it.

00:56:43.000 repeated something. Right. The majority of men said males, we use the term males because

00:56:48.000 back then of course they wouldn't even have a chip in their brain for modern

00:56:50.000 gender theory, but men voted to give women the right to vote. The reason

00:56:55.000 that a majority of women didn't want the right to vote is because a lot of people

00:56:57.000 don't understand this that historically, now I'm not saying that women shouldn't

00:57:00.000 have the right to vote, just to be clear, I'm just explaining the historical

00:57:02.000 context. Voting came with certain responsibilities like the draft, like

00:57:07.000 owning property, like paying taxes, like bucket duty, which was mandatory

00:57:11.000 voluntary firefighter service. And women said, oh if that's what we have to do to

00:57:15.000 vote, we don't want it. And then men had the vote for them to vote and they said,

00:57:20.000 by the way, you don't have to do any of that stuff, only the men do. So a lot of

00:57:23.000 people don't understand that. That's a big reason why.

00:57:26.000 I think that...

00:57:28.000 Obviously, it changed over time.

00:57:30.000 There was a testing period, which I would say we were in now, comparatively, and it changed over time to benefit, what I would say, the majority of people.

00:57:40.000 As it's become normalized now, I mean, how can you say it didn't benefit us?

00:57:46.000 Nah, I think women strip to vote sometimes.

00:57:48.000 Interesting.

00:57:49.000 I don't agree with you.

00:57:50.000 That's okay.

00:57:50.000 You don't have to agree with me.

00:57:51.000 I certainly think women should have the right to vote.

00:57:53.000 Exactly.

00:57:55.000 Yeah, I think we've seen some bad votes, and I think we've seen some buyer's remorse from women voting.

00:58:00.000 Them voting, where they're like, well, you know what, this is like, we've talked about women who thought, well, it's okay for the trans issue, and now they go, oh, hold on a second, we can't have them competing in our sports.

00:58:06.000 It's like, well, look behind you, there's a slippery slope.

00:58:09.000 However, I do think it's one thing, and this is the beauty of college campus, is you're dealing in a sort of nebulous, right?

00:58:16.000 Like, well, this, so maybe tomorrow.

00:58:18.000 There does need to be a solution today.

00:58:21.000 And if you're talking about something that involves biological differences, physiological differences, which can cause actual harm, not to mention even removing opportunities from biological females, you stick with the rules that you have.

00:58:35.000 And if you want to create a third division, let that be the experimenting ground, not at the cost of women's opportunities.

00:58:40.000 That's why Title IX exists.

00:58:42.000 I believe there shouldn't be any discrimination, no matter who the person is.

00:58:46.000 So you consider a biological male, if the sporting organization, the governing body says, you have to compete with biological males, or in a third division, an inter-gender division, but not with biological females, you see that as discrimination?

00:59:00.000 Yes, absolutely.

00:59:00.000 Okay, so your solution is to let biological males compete with women?

00:59:05.000 I think I could compare your point to mine, where you'd see in the back segregation.

00:59:12.000 There's a different baseball league for both.

00:59:17.000 Would you not call that discrimination?

00:59:19.000 Yeah, of course that's discrimination by definition.

00:59:22.000 And then all of a sudden when the, I can say this because former Vice President Joe Biden said it, the United Negro League, once they mixed it, guess what?

00:59:29.000 There weren't too many great white baseball players.

00:59:32.000 I believe there still is.

00:59:33.000 There are some, but the point is, the point is they wanted to keep them out because we knew that there was some black speed and power, my friend.

00:59:41.000 I feel like that's extremely racist to say.

00:59:43.000 Really?

00:59:43.000 To say that black people are better athletes than white people in certain sports?

00:59:46.000 I think so, yeah.

00:59:47.000 Really?

00:59:47.000 Have you watched an NBA game?

00:59:49.000 I'm not going to say either way.

00:59:50.000 Is it racist to say that the majority of the NBA is black?

00:59:53.000 I'm not going to say either way.

00:59:55.000 Is it racist for me to say that black people are typically better at basketball than the average white person?

00:59:59.000 I have no idea.

00:59:59.000 I don't know the statistics.

01:00:01.000 I guess by definition it's racist, but I don't think that you would find a single black person here who disagrees.

01:00:07.000 I think that's a pretty broad point you're making.

01:00:10.000 And obviously I'm not one to say I'm not a person of color.

01:00:12.000 But you just said it's racist, so you did speak on behalf of black people.

01:00:15.000 I would call it racist, absolutely.

01:00:16.000 To say that black people are To say that they make up a higher percentage of the NBA than white people?

01:00:21.000 No.

01:00:21.000 To say that they're... That's not what he said.

01:00:26.000 In general... Sure.

01:00:28.000 What did you exactly say?

01:00:29.000 Let me give you a different one.

01:00:30.000 In general, black people, black males, at the elite level, are faster than white males.

01:00:36.000 I feel like that's a racist statement.

01:00:39.000 Check any of the land speed records.

01:00:41.000 I don't know the statistics, of course.

01:00:42.000 Look at the top ten.

01:00:42.000 You're not going to find a Whitaker I see what you're saying.

01:00:46.000 I don't agree.

01:00:46.000 I don't agree with your statement.

01:00:48.000 Your statement.

01:00:48.000 That's not what you said.

01:00:49.000 That's not what you originally said.

01:00:51.000 Your statement.

01:00:52.000 My statement, that at the elite level, black males tend to run faster times than white males.

01:00:57.000 That's not what you said.

01:00:58.000 At the elite level, black males are faster than white males.

01:01:02.000 That's not what you originally said.

01:01:04.000 That is what I said.

01:01:05.000 In this past point, but earlier, your statement was the characteristics of black people versus any other person.

01:01:11.000 That black people tend to be more successful in athletics than white people, yes.

01:01:16.000 I'm not saying the statistics are racist.

01:01:18.000 I'm saying your statement regarding black people is racist.

01:01:21.000 Based on statistics.

01:01:23.000 That doesn't matter.

01:01:24.000 And it's certainly not inferring that they're inferior.

01:01:28.000 Debatably, that's maybe what you are inferring.

01:01:32.000 That all the land speed records, that all the 100 meter dash records are held by black people and not white people, that that's racist?

01:01:38.000 That's not what I'm saying.

01:01:39.000 How is that suggesting they're inferior?

01:01:40.000 The statistics aren't racist.

01:01:42.000 Okay.

01:01:43.000 I'm saying your statement was.

01:01:45.000 Okay, so how do I address the statistic that all land speed records... You can just say it outright.

01:01:49.000 You don't have to get paranoid.

01:01:50.000 It's just black people.

01:01:51.000 But that is what I said.

01:01:52.000 You still said it was racist.

01:01:54.000 No, I was referring to your statement.

01:01:55.000 Okay, so how do I say All of the top land speed records on two feet at the elite level are held exclusively by black males.

01:02:06.000 Exactly how you just said it.

01:02:07.000 So that's not racist?

01:02:08.000 Nope.

01:02:09.000 But it's racist for me to say that, as a general rule, in the elite category, when you're looking at the elite of the elite, runners, black males are faster than white males.

01:02:17.000 That's not racist.

01:02:18.000 That's exactly right.

01:02:19.000 That's not how you stated it.

01:02:20.000 How did I state it?

01:02:20.000 The earlier statement was you were describing, obviously, with a little bit of a racial motif in the background, black people's characteristics.

01:02:31.000 I don't understand.

01:02:31.000 What do you mean racial motif in the background?

01:02:34.000 You trying to say that there's some kind of an undertone that's racist?

01:02:36.000 I'd say a black person or a white person are people.

01:02:39.000 Right.

01:02:40.000 There don't need to be clarifications on the differences between the two.

01:02:43.000 But I was addressing a specific instance of athletic capability.

01:02:46.000 You were, and then you went off on that little tangent, and then came back to it to try to cover it up.

01:02:50.000 I never addressed the differences between black and white people outside of an athletic context.

01:02:55.000 No, no, you didn't.

01:02:57.000 You said, you gave characteristics of black people, which I would have called racist.

01:03:02.000 No.

01:03:04.000 You give different characteristics.

01:03:08.000 I won't repeat them.

01:03:08.000 I can't repeat them, sorry.

01:03:09.000 They were said.

01:03:10.000 I can't say them in black.

01:03:11.000 I would never say those words.

01:03:12.000 No, no, no.

01:03:12.000 Well, the good thing is here we have a loop.

01:03:14.000 What did I say?

01:03:14.000 I don't understand what...

01:03:15.000 I'm trying...

01:03:16.000 I can't say...

01:03:16.000 I remember saying black people are more athletic, right?

01:03:18.000 More athletic.

01:03:19.000 Faster.

01:03:20.000 I said speed and power.

01:03:22.000 Right? I'm talking about baseball.

01:03:23.000 Are you talking about United Negro League?

01:03:25.000 No, no, no.

01:03:27.000 That's obviously a term that was used.

01:03:29.000 Okay.

01:03:30.000 So I can't possibly...

01:03:33.000 I'm saying not in the word itself, but the way you stated it is racist.

01:03:38.000 Okay, so it's not the word, it's the way I stated it that in general the elite black athletes are faster than the elite white athletes.

01:03:46.000 You can say that.

01:03:47.000 Yeah, but you believe that's racist.

01:03:48.000 Okay, so you believe that's racist.

01:03:49.000 That's fine, we just disagree on that, and I don't see that as something that most black people would disagree with.

01:03:56.000 But we can ask some, we can find some people who will show an answer.

01:03:59.000 I think that you're, I think that, I think one thing that I will say, is first off, I appreciate you sitting down, aside from the accusation of racism, or saying that the statement was made in a way that you believe was racist.

01:04:09.000 Aside from that, I think you've kept it remarkably civil.

01:04:13.000 But I will say, I don't think this has been very productive.

01:04:16.000 I don't believe so either.

01:04:17.000 And the reason is because you live, especially on college campus, you are afforded the luxury of not having to offer solutions in the real world.

01:04:28.000 And there aren't many places where that's the case.

01:04:30.000 Well, because you don't deal with these consequences right now.

01:04:32.000 You're pursuing your education.

01:04:34.000 You're obviously taken aback by something else.

01:04:37.000 Well, I think that's actually a discriminatory thing to say.

01:04:40.000 How do you say it?

01:04:40.000 What about someone who decided not to go to a university or college, but someone who's creating a business?

01:04:45.000 Someone who's learning a trade?

01:04:46.000 Are they not pursuing an education?

01:04:48.000 No, they are pursuing an education, absolutely.

01:04:49.000 But they don't get the deal simply in the philosophical, right?

01:04:52.000 They have to answer pragmatically, like, wait, hold on a second, there's a bottom line to this profit.

01:04:56.000 Wait, hold on a second, am I doing this job correctly or I'm not?

01:04:59.000 You're afforded a luxury of being able to express ideas without bringing them to their endpoint solution.

01:05:03.000 And so that's a big purpose to the change my mind ideas.

01:05:06.000 If you're going to change my mind, right?

01:05:08.000 And this is an actual exercise.

01:05:09.000 I'm not intending to change your mind.

01:05:10.000 That's why you sit down.

01:05:11.000 But, you know, I think this is important.

01:05:13.000 What are you studying?

01:05:15.000 Cybersecurity engineering.

01:05:19.000 Was this thrown or did this fall?

01:05:20.000 I think it fell.

01:05:21.000 Oh, okay.

01:05:22.000 I'm used to objects throwing.

01:05:23.000 Yeah, I don't know.

01:05:24.000 Um, I think, uh, uh, what are you studying?

01:05:28.000 Cybersecurity Engineering.

01:05:29.000 Cybersecurity Engineering?

01:05:30.000 Yes.

01:05:30.000 Oh, okay.

01:05:31.000 So, that's a field where, really quickly, you're going to find out, once you go into the workforce, if you're good or you're bad at your job.

01:05:38.000 Yeah, debatably.

01:05:39.000 No, not debatably.

01:05:41.000 Your ass will be fired.

01:05:42.000 I'm going to be good.

01:05:43.000 Okay, right.

01:05:44.000 But I'm saying, if you're not good, you'll be fired.

01:05:46.000 Yeah.

01:05:47.000 Because it either worked, you either kept them secure, you either kept them secure, you didn't.

01:05:51.000 That's not, it's not black and white like that.

01:05:54.000 Ones and zeros.

01:05:55.000 As an employer, I can tell you it is pretty black and white.

01:05:57.000 Jobs are performance-based.

01:05:58.000 No, absolutely.

01:05:59.000 I understand that.

01:06:00.000 Not so much in the realm of higher education.

01:06:01.000 But I'm saying, you know, there's situations that occur.

01:06:04.000 Maybe a boss like that.

01:06:05.000 Okay.

01:06:05.000 It wouldn't be up to you.

01:06:06.000 I'm saying there's other options.

01:06:07.000 I didn't say it would be up to me.

01:06:09.000 I mean, as a boss.

01:06:10.000 I think you're doing the word salad thing, which I know is very fun to do in universities and colleges.

01:06:16.000 No, you're saying it wouldn't be up to you.

01:06:17.000 I never said it was up to me.

01:06:18.000 What I was saying is that there's going to be an objective... No, I didn't mean you.

01:06:20.000 I meant as a boss.

01:06:21.000 You as a boss.

01:06:22.000 Right.

01:06:23.000 A boss will determine if your job is good or bad.

01:06:25.000 If you had a bad day, maybe you fired somebody.

01:06:27.000 That's not up to the person.

01:06:29.000 See what I mean?

01:06:29.000 It's just one example.

01:06:30.000 It's up to the employer.

01:06:31.000 Say again?

01:06:32.000 It's up to the employer, through objective parameters set, if you're good at your job or not.

01:06:36.000 Whereas that doesn't really apply here, right, on college.

01:06:38.000 I mean, relatively, there are grading systems.

01:06:41.000 Okay, but if I were a professor... Sure.

01:06:44.000 And I was grading you on solutions provided.

01:06:46.000 Sure.

01:06:47.000 You'd have to get a 0%.

01:06:48.000 You could be biased.

01:06:50.000 Okay, I'm sure I could be biased.

01:06:52.000 I would argue that you haven't presented any solutions, because you've said you don't have them.

01:06:56.000 Yeah, I do not.

01:06:57.000 I'm a white male.

01:06:58.000 But in order to... Well, it's not because you're a white male.

01:07:00.000 I believe it is.

01:07:00.000 That's not why you don't have any solutions, my friend.

01:07:02.000 Don't hide behind the white male thing.

01:07:05.000 It is.

01:07:05.000 To say that you're a white male, therefore you don't have solutions, you can still present one.

01:07:08.000 No, I'm saying... You have a dog in the fight.

01:07:10.000 Enter the arena.

01:07:12.000 Especially if you are going to change someone's mind.

01:07:15.000 Especially if you're going to convince someone to your point of view.

01:07:18.000 You do need to offer.

01:07:21.000 Some kind of a quantifiable solution.

01:07:23.000 And that's how the world works.

01:07:25.000 Now, I've done that and I know you... I don't even necessarily know that you fully agree or disagree.

01:07:30.000 I just know that you don't really know what it is that you think should be done.

01:07:33.000 And I think that that's... I agree.

01:07:35.000 I think that's honestly representative of a lot of...

01:07:37.000 Well, there is when it harms people in the real world, like women.

01:07:40.000 Being overconfident is also a source of damage.

01:07:44.000 Yeah, I don't think that saying biological men, biological males compete with biological males, and biological females compete with, again, likewise, I don't think that's a problem with overconfidence.

01:07:54.000 I think if so, then, oh my gosh, doctors and epidemiologists and physiologists and biologists are cocky as s***, so.

01:08:01.000 But, man, I do appreciate you sitting down.

01:08:03.000 Jackson?

01:08:04.000 Jackson.

01:08:04.000 Jackson?

01:08:05.000 See, my talk with Jackson really highlights the problem with universities and how the obfuscation of objective truth really absolves students of providing concrete answers to real issues in the real world.

01:08:16.000 Now, Jackson isn't a bad kid and I do appreciate him sitting down with me, but the lack of argument or ability to even articulate an objective position is exactly where institutions like UNT have failed students in the first place.

01:08:31.000 At UNT, no less.

01:08:32.000 The Harvard of Denton County.

01:08:34.000 Now if you want to see more of these, smash the like button and comment below which topic you'd most like to see covered next.

01:08:40.000 And if you think this video has helped you understand this topic better, please consider sharing it and subscribing or tuning in tomorrow at 10 a.m.

01:08:47.000 Eastern.

Louder with Crowder - April 11, 2022

Biological Men Should Not Compete in Women's Sports (Part 3) | Change My Mind

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