Dave Chappelle was attacked at a Starbucks by a woman who thought he was anti-transgender and anti-semitic. Comedian Dave responded to the attack with a series of tweets and jokes about the incident and the fallout. On this week's episode of Mug Club, host Jeff Perla sits down with Douglas Murray, author of The War in the West, to discuss the events that took place yesterday and what we can expect from the rest of the week.
00:03:05.000I mean, a few more people have been, you know, assaulted in a Molotov cocktail from yesterday, but it feels like everything is about the same.
00:03:14.000So we'll be talking not only about that, the reactions yesterday, the fallout, and what we most likely see taking place throughout the week, but I'll be sitting down here today with Douglas Murray, author of The War in the West.
00:03:28.000He is a brilliant guy, also happens to be gay, but that's not all he is.
00:03:42.000And I do think, man, Karen Carpenter, you guys can, you know what, comment below, name that film reference there for people who don't know what we're talking about.
00:03:55.000Something that affects our life directly is what happened with Dave Chappelle yesterday.
00:03:58.000And, you know, it's actually sort of providential that I didn't discuss the conversation I had at Starbucks yesterday.
00:04:04.000We were going to do that on Mug Club with someone who went on a tirade against Dave Chappelle before this happened, saying that he was anti-trans and that she didn't like his jokes about sexual assault.
00:04:13.000Well, this is what we're seeing right now.
00:04:14.000We are seeing a culture of violence because how long can you go on Accusing people of being Nazis, accusing people of being racist, telling women that men want to remove their rights of bodily autonomy before people on the left start treating folks like us like actual Nazis.
00:07:00.000Well, like I've said it on the show before, I had opened for Dave before he went away, and then I opened for him when he came back, and it's just interesting to see, especially now, his last special, he included an entire story about his trans friend who committed suicide, included in there, and that wasn't good enough.
00:07:19.000And the reality is, is that just shows that even if you try, To give somebody what they want and to try to, you know, ingrain yourself into their life and show a little bit of empathy, it doesn't matter.
00:08:48.000So I had to go to Starbucks and she was talking about Dave Chappelle, this younger barista, and she was saying, I don't like his trans jokes.
00:08:54.000I think that his jokes about sexual assault.
00:08:56.000I was like, you really don't know, do you?
00:08:58.000That, you know, it's not bold and brave to beat women, for example, in a swim meet.
00:09:02.000It's a brave move to walk away from $100 million at Comedy Central, which Dave Chappelle did.
00:09:07.000He actually had skin in the game, serious skin in the game.
00:09:43.000Yeah, it's just, yeah, it really was a sad time.
00:09:46.000But he had this brilliant show, and his friends, you know, a couple of his friends still did the show, they still went with it, and even though the Chappelle Show without Dave there, they really tried to keep playing it.
00:09:56.000And Dave has always been, I think Killing Them Softly is one of the most brilliant stand-up specials you can ever watch.
00:10:04.000It's hilarious, he punches on all sides, and it's very personal and real and funny and good.
00:10:10.000He writes three hours of material a week?
00:10:13.000He gives everything that has been asked of comedians.
00:10:17.000Whether you agree with him or not, and I disagree with him on a whole lot, everything that is asked of a good comedian, Dave Chappelle, has given and then some.
00:12:07.000Let me be really clear about my position on this.
00:12:09.000If that person never walked again and had to sip his food through a straw, I'm not saying that's ideal, I don't wish it upon them, it wouldn't be an injustice.
00:12:16.000You and I both know when we are, when you're on stage, especially when someone comes up with a replica gun as he did, you can't know the intent.
00:12:23.000You absolutely have to eliminate that threat.
00:12:25.000If someone is storming a stage violently, you are, uh, you're taking that risk that you could lose your life.
00:12:32.000Because you are putting someone else In fear of theirs.
00:12:35.000Just like if you mug someone at knife point.
00:13:47.000You can just find Spokane Comedy Club if you want to go see it.
00:13:49.000I'm working out some material for a fall tour, and you'll be doing these dates this weekend.
00:13:53.000You know, I told you about this before when I was doing Lesson Left before even the pandemic on stage, and I was saying, well, look, you'll kind of experience it.
00:14:01.000And a lot of people think, because a lot of people out there want to act like martyrs on both the left and the right, that it's just, well, okay, you're blowing it out of proportion.
00:14:10.000I'm surprised that that guy got that close.
00:14:12.000That would never happen at one of our shows.
00:14:14.000Oh, 15 years ago, I remember going into, like, the Deep South to perform, and just what bouncers would do to a heckler, you know, before really people had camera phones.
00:14:27.000But it's sad that this is what it's come to.
00:14:29.000That people who are just simply trying to go up on stage, make jokes, have fun, Everybody around you, when you stand up and scream or shout or get upset, without even this.
00:16:09.000When you say this person is a Nazi, this person is a fascist, right?
00:16:13.000They say, they use the term yesterday, sexual fascism.
00:16:15.000By the way, in the comments, no one actually made a case as to what sexual fascism is or certainly how this Roe v. Wade being overturned just having to do with the first trimester in state regulations would affect anyone in a sexually fascist way.
00:16:29.000It's so silly I don't even know how to say it.
00:16:40.000But they want everyone to believe that you are Hitler, that Donald Trump is Hitler, that now Dave Chappelle is Hitler, and so it makes it justifiable to treat those people inhumanely.
00:16:52.000No one's going to watch it change my mind and say, hey, I should go out and kick the ass of every single blue-haired lesbian on campus.
00:16:59.000If I had a dollar for every Jewish comedian I know who's been called Hitler in the last three years, I'd retire.
00:17:06.000It's like, do you even know who you're talking to?
00:17:08.000And then the Jewish comedian would shake you down for it.
00:18:32.000Yeah, it's so funny because so many people do point out the black KKK sketch that he did in the early 2000s, and it's almost pointed out so much to the point that it's hacky, but it's insane because it's real now.
00:18:46.000You're calling him a white supremacist and a Nazi, and at one point it was a parody because it was so absurd it couldn't possibly exist in our culture, and this is when I was 23.
00:19:44.000Now, Elizabeth Warren, let's look at the kind of unhinged rant that you hear from our representatives and see if when they talk about Donald Trump-inspiring violence, well, okay, you see what Elizabeth Warren said, you saw what AOC said, and then you see actual violence, right?
00:19:58.000You see actual violence take place last night.
00:20:00.000Here's Elizabeth Warren, well, as far as I can remember, the most famous non-Native American yesterday, ranting about Roe v. Wade.
00:20:08.000This is what the Republicans have been working toward this day for decades.
00:21:48.000Also interesting that she talks about how this will fall on black women, this will fall on poor women, considering if you understand the history of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger, a eugenicist and a racist, they deliberately set up shop in black neighborhoods and targeted poor people because they saw it as a form of eugenics.
00:21:59.000So this is something that I guess maybe she doesn't necessarily know her own history.
00:22:02.000And isn't it always convenient when they bring up, and I'm not saying that there are no women like this, just to be clear, But the vast majority are not the upstanding citizen who is the upstanding mom who's working three jobs every day and already has a family and simply can't afford another child, therefore she needs an abortion.
00:22:24.000That's the scenario they always paint.
00:22:26.000The upstanding person who has made no irresponsible decisions, who is not, while we're talking about bodily autonomy, not in charge of her own sexual decisions, could have not prevented this in any way, even though she is of course responsible and took all proper countermeasures Uh, and, uh, happens to have a family already existing and was raped, therefore needs an abortion.
00:22:44.000That's, that's who this is going to fall upon, says Elizabeth non-Native American Warren.
00:24:29.000They're trying to gin up riots and protests right now so that people stay home and don't vote.
00:24:34.000Or they're trying to convince enough people out there that the right is as extreme as they are, believing that, you know, kids should be put on puberty blockers.
00:24:41.000This is what your former vice president said, that affirming your child's gender, meaning not their gender, is one of the most important things you can do.
00:24:48.000They're trying to say, look at how extremist the right is.
00:24:50.000They're trying to remove your right to abortion.
00:24:53.000Let's make sure that message is heard up until and including elections.
00:24:56.000This isn't any different than the playbook where Kamala Harris Said they should keep rioting!
00:25:00.000And of course you see it, and just like clockwork, you see the protests, and you know it's going to get violent because it's never not.
00:25:11.000I also tweeted about it two nights ago, just to be clear, and I don't say this to say, look how good I am at predictions.
00:25:16.000It's so that you guys can take it to the bank.
00:25:18.000I want you to be able to observe the patterns, where Dave Chappelle shouldn't be a surprise.
00:25:23.000I want you to be able to keep your head in a swivel and be on guard and protect yourself when you see decisions like this taking place, or when you see, for example, the 2020 election, most free and most fair of all time.
00:25:35.000I want you to understand That you could be in danger.
00:25:43.000And I'm not in the business of making a lot of predictions.
00:25:45.000This is one in which I felt 100% confident.
00:25:47.000Two days ago on Twitter, I wrote that the, uh, leaker of the draft will undoubtedly be hailed as a hero by the left.
00:25:52.000It's a clear intimidation tactic to pressure justices.
00:25:55.000And, uh, that of course the left will respond as they always do when things don't go their way with violence and destruction.
00:26:00.000You can follow me on Twitter to see more of those because now you're not, you know, if you try and hit the follow button, your cursor doesn't go.
00:27:16.000They just sound like demonic banshees.
00:27:19.000Well, that's all it is, is there's some rage inside of you, something you haven't dealt with mixed with the fact that you're an idiot that makes you run out and behave like that.
00:27:28.000And who could ever possibly insinuate that those people are not pro-life?
00:27:33.000And of course, that's not all you're seeing.
00:27:35.000You're seeing the violence in the streets.
00:27:36.000You're going to see it get worse, I guarantee you.
00:27:38.000And of course, this is going to probably play up to the election.
00:27:42.000Now, it could backfire, because the left is seen as a party of not respecting rule of law, and you particularly see it with Latino Americans.
00:27:49.000In the recent polling, which we talked about yesterday.
00:27:51.000But they want this to serve as a highlight, like with the pandemic.
00:27:55.000They want something that they can point to every single day, going into an election, going, the Republicans want to take your freedoms away!
00:28:53.000The fact that you can be this angry about something that's not directly affecting you in the moment just shows me that you have no problems.
00:29:00.000Maybe that's the issue with an extremely free country.
00:29:03.000It's, oh, we have it so good we have to invent stuff to be enraged about.
00:29:33.000So this is from Vox, wrote, seriously, shout out to whoever the hero was within the Supreme Court who said, Fuck it, let's burn this place down.
00:29:41.000So this isn't, again, we're not talking about fringe elements.
00:29:44.000You're talking about a fringe element that, by the way, is not even conservative when you're talking about January 6th
00:29:49.000and wasn't even as violent as just last night.
00:29:51.000To be clear, the only person who was seriously hurt, who was killed, was a protester.
00:31:32.000This is where you see... You know what fascism is?
00:31:35.000Is if I am here on this program, and we have to be careful just in using the term line in the sand, because the overlords at big tech might interpret that as a call to violence, when they actually allow real calls to violence.
00:34:18.000I thought I had to contribute, which I didn't.
00:34:20.000For people who don't know, and I want to get into a few things that I just find very interesting as far as your point of view, what's this book about, The War in the West, specifically?
00:34:27.000The War in the West is sort of a culmination of three books I've written, starting with A Strange Death of Europe about migration, then The Madness of Crowds, which was about all the crazy stuff going on with trans and women's rights and gay rights and all that stuff and then this is this is a sort of culmination of it which is just basically my best attempt to try to explain what I think is actually going on in our time which is essentially a war on everything that's ours and an admiration and love of everything that isn't so that you know
00:34:55.000We admire all traditions apart from our own.
00:34:58.000The cool thing to do is to love things from other places and to hate everything from our own civilization.
00:35:07.000So that, you know, we're now, I do it in four parts, the war on white people, which I think is an absolute catastrophe waiting to happen, where you tell the majority population that they're appalling and have nothing to be said for them and they have no reason to be proud.
00:35:21.000And you say this as an obscenely white person.
00:35:35.000But if I sought from minority status, I could.
00:35:38.000But no, the basically, I mean, I think that this this thing of, right, only one group you're allowed to be racist about, and that's white people.
00:35:46.000So I described that the war on white people.
00:35:48.000The War on Western History, which is obviously just, we've decided to ransack everything in our past, take it all down, all the heroes, there's no one left, and completely rewrite all Western history to say it's only about slavery, racism, and colonialism, because of course the rest of the world did nothing wrong at all in history.
00:36:05.000No, I mean, I don't know if you've seen, they're going gangbusters in North Africa.
00:36:12.000And then the third one is the War on Western Religion, which is Not just our Judeo-Christian religion but the secular religion as well.
00:36:21.000I mean the war on enlightenment values which is just unbelievable and some people might not realize just how advanced that is.
00:36:26.000And then the war on Western culture where just every single thing that's been produced from the buildings to the art, the music of the West is also just looked at through this anti-racism lens.
00:36:39.000You know it's all terrible because it's created by those By people who are guilty of those three terrible things, being white, being male, and being dead.
00:36:48.000And as you know, it's particularly unforgivable to die, because none of the critics who attack the dead white males will ever experience that.
00:36:57.000I thought you were going to say if you're a kamikaze.
00:37:16.000Well, if we're going, we're talking about sort of the birth of modern civilization, you know, Western civilization, if we're going back to even like Rome, you know, lots of gay stuff.
00:37:48.000It's the last channel on Terrestrial, and they made a documentary called Lesbians Go Mad in Lesbos, and a whole ship of lesbians landed on the island of Lesbos as if they were going to commune with their place of origin.
00:38:01.000Of course, the poor locals just had this horror.
00:38:04.000They live in a very charming island, and suddenly these women are going around waving dildos in the street.
00:38:08.000I know, I just imagine there's some beautiful, you know, sun-kissed Mediterranean woman oiling herself on the beaches and then just someone runs in, crushing a natty ice can, like, let's do this!
00:38:50.000Um, so, okay, I want to, because you just covered a lot of ground there.
00:38:53.000Let me ask you this off the bat, because I know people watching will have a question on this.
00:38:56.000You define yourself, or I have heard you describe yourself, I don't want to misread, as a Christian atheist or an atheist Christian, am I right?
00:39:07.000Well it means I'm not a believer in God, or at least I find it very hard to believe in God.
00:39:11.000I'd say maybe agnostic is better, but obviously I'm a Christian because I was born in a Christian civilization, a Christian country, brought up a Christian.
00:39:19.000So I mean you might, there are people who lose their faith or don't have faith and are Jewish or Muslim, but that's not the same thing as a Christian atheist.
00:39:26.000Well, I was going to say, because with, you know, for example, Jews, you can be a Jew through religion, through faith, through ethnicity, or through culture.
00:39:51.000No, I see it as someone who's Not necessarily a Christian, believing it in the literal sense, the way that all Christians do, but a Christian sympathizer, like you're talking about, how it acts as the foundation for Western civilization, the Judeo-Christian values, as opposed to the edgy atheists who would just say, well, if I need a god to tell me not to murder or steal, then... Sure.
00:40:13.000No, I mean, I've known all the edgy atheists, as you call them, and I mean, I just think it's absurd not to concede the fact that much of what we have in America, like Britain, Canada, is derived from Christian ethics, Christian ideas.
00:40:44.000So I think that, you know, you should just concede these things where they're true, and even if they're against your interests.
00:40:50.000And obviously, atheists are against their interests very often, but nevertheless.
00:40:53.000And I also say that it's important to concede this because you should try to work out, I think, whether you want to engage in sawing off a branch of a tree that you're sitting on.
00:41:13.000I think it's the, like I've always said, it's not the extremes where people say, if I need a guy to tell me to not murder, well, first off, that's also not necessarily universal.
00:41:49.000I mean, if I was Jewish, it would be more straightforward because I'd just be a practicing Jew who didn't believe.
00:41:55.000Well, but that's because you would be born Jewish ethnically.
00:41:59.000It would be like, let's say you converted to Judaism, you know, because you had a lady who was Jewish, but then you left her and then you left, but you called yourself Jewish.
00:42:08.000It's like, well, but you're not Jewish.
00:42:12.000I mean, Christianity is obviously a different matter, but I just think that if you, also if you not only recognize that it's where you've inherited some of your ideas or many of your ideas from, but also ideas that you like, why would you go to war with them?
00:42:26.000I mean, this was a position I arrived at some years ago.
00:42:29.000The philosopher Roger Scruton is a great friend.
00:42:31.000He also wrote this, at the very least don't war on it.
00:42:36.000Why would you war on something whose products you like?
00:43:04.000In historic terms, as well as in the world today, and we would be very, very stupid if we assumed that the kind of civilization that we like is by any means the default civilization.
00:44:04.000I don't know why we didn't just take it.
00:44:06.000That's the one thing, I don't know if you, in the UK, you know, but I've talked about this with Donald Trump.
00:44:09.000He forced people to pay attention by saying things that were reasonable and the media would say was offensive.
00:44:15.000So, I don't know if you remember his quote where he said, I would only go if we take the oil and the media's like, can you believe he said we would take the oil?
00:44:20.000And people at home are like, yeah, we're not.
00:44:25.000That is the norm historically and it's only us that thinks it's unusual and odd.
00:44:33.000There's a graph in one of Steven Pinker's books about average deaths by violence in society and shows, you know, as I point out in this book, contrary to the sort of Western idea that, you know, you have, you know, you have guilty people in the West and everyone else is innocent, including, you know, all native people.
00:44:53.000If you look at the stats on it, like, 60 more percent of, like, in native populations among tribes, people in Africa and elsewhere, the males die violent deaths.
00:45:05.000This is compared to, like, a small single-digit percentages of males dying violent deaths in Europe in the 20th century, in our worst century.
00:46:01.000It was only a few hundred, so do the math.
00:46:03.000It was all of the other enslaved and pillaged and oppressed people who said, we're going to take our chances with the guys in the shiny hats.
00:46:09.000And I don't know if you saw this, but just the other day they found another pile of, you know, sacrificed bodies somewhere in Central America.
00:46:18.000And it's a sort of reminder of something that people in America have forgotten, which is that these These sort of allegedly, you know, more native, more rights to the land's people, you know, they weren't great.
00:46:28.000And I don't know if you saw, but like a year ago, the California School Board had this thing where they got in religious education lessons, they got the kids to do chanting to the Aztec gods.
00:46:53.000Well sometimes you have to sacrifice a child in order to throw off the chains of systemic racism.
00:46:58.000Yes, well, this seemed to me, I mean I thought, and also if this God was actually true and was summoned from the dead, he'd be very surprised if the California school board asked for him to come back.
00:47:07.000And I know you're sort of an agnostic, atheist, Christian, so sympathizer, but in the Christian worldview, if you're praying to the God who sacrifices children, that's a demon.
00:48:42.000Which brings me to my, you know, my question, and actually I think you've already answered.
00:48:45.000I was going to say, I notice you don't say like, like Muslim atheist, and that's largely because half of you would have to kill the other half.
00:48:56.000When I first started writing about Islam, about 20 years ago, I was told there was an event at a university in London where somebody stood up and said at an event, I was born a Muslim but I'm a non-Muslim now, and the whole place went bananas and the event had to be called off because everyone started attacking each other.
00:49:12.000By now, by the way, interestingly enough, by the last five years or so I've discovered actually it's not uncommon at events for people to publicly or certainly afterwards, you know, sort of semi-publicly announce that they are a non-Muslim now, that they're a Muslim atheist.
00:49:27.000And that actually gives me some hope because it suggests that people are more free to leave the religion if they're in the West than they used to be.
00:49:35.000And that actually the sort of freedoms that other people enjoy in the West to go in and out of religions as they see fit could actually be allowed to apply to Muslims as well, which is all... Yeah.
00:49:50.000They say like, ah, it's one of the fastest growing religions.
00:49:53.000Yes, if you count cell block D. I have a friend in the UK, a journalist called Julie Birchall, and she some years ago said, we were talking about the issue of women who convert to Islam, which is a very interesting point.
00:50:06.000Well she said, she said, Douglas said, they're the same stupid bitches what write letters to prisoners who've mass-murdered people and asked to marry them.
00:50:15.000So there is a certain type of woman who writes to convicts and wants to be their lover.
00:50:23.000Yeah, I write that to female inmates, but it's just a conjugal visit, so I just want to put a smile on their face.
00:50:28.000Well, of course, now we know, from the trans prisoners that we were told wouldn't ever happen, that women can be impregnated by fellow female inmates.
00:50:38.000We had that episode removed from YouTube, where we discussed that story.
00:50:42.000And they removed it, so now we have to be careful, because they said, oh, you can't do that, because that would insinuate... It's like, hold on a second, I didn't say all trans people are inmate rapists.
00:51:48.000Some would debate you over, you know, this small fact of the cock.
00:51:52.000So let me ask you about this, because actually I do want to talk about Islam and the West a little bit, then we can move on to kind of talk about not just Islam in the West, but also, you know, you sort of talked of I mean, if people want to use the term sort of original sin, but really implicit bias and the idea of the sins of our fathers and slavery.
00:52:09.000And that, to me, has been very interesting.
00:52:11.000There've been quite a few pieces of writing on the North African slave trade, the Mediterranean, all that.
00:52:16.000Like you just said, listen, I want to be clear, slavery, bad.
00:53:20.000It was claimed at Guantanamo Bay that an American officer had flushed the Qur'an and my friend Mark Stein wrote a piece the next day titled My Qur'an Won't Flush.
00:54:17.000Flashpoints have stemmed from a series of organized rallies since Thursday led by the leader of a Danish far-right political party currently on tour in Sweden.
00:54:28.000Inflammatory events that include the actual burning or threat of burning of the Quran.
00:54:35.000And it's War in the West, author Douglas Murray.
00:54:36.000I assume it's available on Amazon for as long as they... Absolutely.
00:54:39.000Were you about to say something right from this video?
00:54:41.000No, I was just going to say, I actually mentioned that Quran burning always leads to that.
00:54:46.000If you remember in America when that Florida pastor said he might burn a Quran.
00:54:52.000He got a call for David Petraeus asking him not to.
00:54:55.000If you're in America and you want to burn a crown, you can get straight to the top of the Pentagon within hours.
00:55:02.000By contrast, I think two years ago it was reported in some of the press that some Bibles
00:55:07.000had been burnt in Portland, Oregon at an Antifa protest.
00:55:13.000And this was immediately denounced by various people as being Russian propaganda and much
00:55:54.000It's only with the Qur'an, it's only with Islam.
00:55:56.000Well, it's also very physical, right, when people, this is also why the idea of, you know, dipping bullets in like baking grease, when people used to talk about this in the war on terror, it's because when you are dealing sometimes in that situation with But we have in most of the West, we've completely just agreed to the terms of Islamic blasphemy.
00:56:13.000So they believe in a very physical manifestation of heaven that you go to the body you have here
00:56:16.000And so the Quran is very important to its very physically holy whereas for us. It's just it's just another it's a
00:56:21.000communication device for we Don't yeah, God isn't the Bible. It's just a thing
00:56:26.000But we have we have in most of the West we've completely just agreed to the terms of Islamic blasphemy. I mean we
00:56:35.000Some years ago, I should have just mentioned Mark Stein, but we used to speak each year, every five years, at the reunion of the Danish cartoons controversy.
00:56:45.000By the last time there was an anniversary, I think the 10th anniversary, not only would none of the papers, including the paper that originally published the cartoons, publish them again, But the only place in Denmark, which it was safe, because they'd had another attack on a free speech event just before, the only place safe enough to have our event was the Danish Parliament, because it's the only building with walls thick enough to withstand a bomb.
00:57:11.000Castle walls like those of the Christiansborg in Copenhagen.
00:57:15.000But the point is that we've basically conceded this point, that you shouldn't insult Mohammed, you shouldn't draw Mohammed, you've got to go on those terms, you've got to call him the Prophet and all that stuff, and they've made the price of not doing that quite high.
00:57:29.000And occasionally people like this Danish politician try to make this point, it's just, you know, it's never done in an ideal way.
00:57:34.000But, you know, it's always that thing.
00:57:37.000Well, see, that's the difference, I think, between just trying to, and I totally support his right to do it, just trying to incite some sort of controversy, whereas I did the Quran challenge back in 2009.
00:57:47.000I did a Three Stooges routine of Muhammad beating his two wives, his six-year-old wife, and we did the Bob Ross.
00:57:54.000Now, the idea there is, that's pretty funny, the idea was Bob Ross is so tone-deaf he doesn't realize he's all jovial, he's painting Muhammad.
00:58:02.000But I don't need to agree with the reasoning that anyone is doing it, but I will say it makes it very difficult for people like me to stand out there and just treat Islam as you would any other religion in the realm of comedy when everyone else is terrified of it.
00:58:19.000Like you say, it creates this almost mass hypnosis.
00:58:21.000There's a terrific Dutch comedian called Hans Tewin.
00:58:25.000And he has a line in one of his recent shows, he said, he said, people say to me, why don't you take the mickey out of Islam like you do with other religions?
00:58:32.000And I say to them, but what is funny about Islam?
00:58:36.000When I think of Islam, I just think of joie de vivre.
00:58:45.000I mean, and if not, you know, they could the good thing is they get to take it out on their their broads.
00:58:49.000So it relieves the old tension to loosen the shoulders.
00:58:53.000Do you think As someone who defines yourself as a Christian atheist, we can discuss that there on Mug Club on the disagreement, but going with that premise, do you think that Islam, meaning actual Islam, not people who've left the faith or sort of secularists who at one point were Muslim,
00:59:12.000Dr. Ben Carson got into a lot of flack for this where he said that the Quran is not compatible with the Constitution, but that was effectively echoing the idea that the Quran and Sharia law are not compatible with Western civilization.
00:59:24.000Do you think that's an accurate assessment?
00:59:26.000Well, it's not compatible if you were to try to put the laws of the Qur'an in place, obviously not.
00:59:33.000But I think there might be a misunderstanding about that, which is, can it work underneath the law of the land?
00:59:37.000Well, obviously it does, because lots of Muslims are just peaceful and go about their daily life with their beliefs.
00:59:41.000It would only be if you tried to impose the laws of it on America that, of course, it wouldn't work.
00:59:44.000But that brings us to a problem, doesn't it?
00:59:46.000Anywhere that you have a majority Muslim, it does become the law of the land.
00:59:49.000And so that's where people talk about... Well, that's what I got into some trouble about over a couple of books about the strange death of Europe was
00:59:57.000that it was subtitled Immigration, Identity and Islam and what everyone, what my
01:00:03.000critics hated about the book was that I kept coming back to this point which is
01:00:09.000that when a number of believers get above a certain level the question of
01:00:17.000You have to hope that you've got lots of unbelievers, or not devout people, because if you were to get a certain percentage of devout people, then obviously the customs of your own country are going to change.
01:00:28.000And they'd have to because the people have changed.
01:00:32.000But that's among all the unpopular points I've ever managed to make in my life.
01:00:37.000Going into that one is one of the least popular.
01:00:39.000People hate the idea that somebody moves from one country to another and doesn't immediately take on all of the values of the country they've moved to.
01:00:49.000Well, that's the issue here, really, in the United States, right?
01:00:51.000They're an extreme minority, Muslims, compared to the general population.
01:00:56.000But the concern is, anywhere you look where there is an Islamic country, Sharia does become the law of land, which is very different, by the way.
01:01:03.000Judeo-Christian principles, and I think that you, I don't know if you read about it in this book, but I know that you've talked about it at length, inform The values that are the foundation of the law of this country.
01:01:15.000There isn't a biblical prescription for the laws of a society that might consider itself a part of modern Christendom.
01:01:22.000The Koran is different because it is just as much a set of political beliefs, values, and a set of rules as it is a religion, and that's why it's so different.
01:01:30.000Yeah, that's always been a big problem.
01:01:31.000It's a political project as well as a religion.
01:01:34.000People can avoid the political project and just be involved in the sort of spiritual part.
01:01:38.000But, yeah, I mean, it's a case in majority Muslim countries across the Middle East and the Far East that, you know, if you actually try to enact what's there, it's not a happy situation.
01:01:51.000I don't know with Islam compared to, you know, a lot of sort of the Eastern, whether it's like Buddhism, Taoism, or, you know, what I very, you know, colloquially refer to as the inconsequential religions.
01:02:03.000That, uh, you know, I don't know that you can just sort of do tantric yoga and, you know, okay, it's just something I dabble in.
01:02:09.000Islam is not always something you dabble in, because they say if you dabble and you go in and out, the prescription is for you to be killed.
01:02:14.000Well, most Western people don't understand that, you see.
01:02:16.000Most Western people, again, they think that, um, you might do Islam, you might do yoga, it's kind of the same thing.
01:02:30.000Well, you know what, before we go to the Mug Club Extended, he asked me, he came in, he was very polite, he said, now, is that colored water?
01:02:45.000One thing I do like, though, I was reading about this, Islam, you know what, look, credit where it's due, child rapists get crucifixion, execution.
01:03:12.000The rehabilitation rate is very, very low.
01:03:16.000But a lot of people, while we're sort of talking about this sin of Have you been watching on HBO, Winning Time, the Lakers story?
01:03:26.000It's pretty good, apparently not very accurate, but one of the players was going on this monologue in the show.
01:03:32.000He was speaking to the actor who portrays Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and talking about how this sin of slavery in America and how they look at black people and how, you know, my mother used to say, Mom, My mom used to say, God loves you, but I would say, why did we start at the bottom?
01:03:49.000And she said, well, that's because God loves white people more.
01:04:18.000And that's a number that people didn't believe when we make our references publicly available because they thought that can't be right.
01:04:23.000Sort of like there are more trees now than at any point in the 19th century.
01:04:28.000And when people understand that a big reason for that is modern sort of mega farms, so a lot of the land after, you know, when really we were a sedentary lifestyle, right?
01:04:35.000You had the agricultural revolution before the industrial revolution.
01:05:18.000But you know, there's this thing in America where not only are people injected with this idea that
01:05:26.000they specifically did it, but they also have no context of what happened in the rest of the world.
01:05:31.000They don't know that if up to 12 million people were taken across the Atlantic in the transatlantic slave trade, most not to America remember, but maybe up to 18 million, 1.8 million, were taken east in the slave trade of Yes.
01:05:46.000Black Africans selling their brothers and sisters eastwards to the Arabs.
01:06:46.000But I'm very keen that people get out of this because this thing of saying to one group of people, and again that the majority, you're guilty.
01:06:56.000No American life today is guilty of the slave trade.
01:06:59.000By the way, also, they don't have inherited guilt.
01:07:02.000If we're going to go into the concept of inherited guilt, let's do inherited guilt for everybody.
01:07:06.000Let's go and find who in Africa is guilty because their ancestors sold their neighbors.
01:07:12.000Let's find out who in America is descended from slaves and slavers.
01:07:17.000If you want to do this, this is going to be the ugliest damn exercise you've ever tried.
01:07:21.000They're talking now about reparations again in the United States without realizing, you know, this is a country where it appears to be outrageous to demand somebody shows ID when they go to the voting booth.
01:07:33.000And they're talking about working out who is owed reparations for something that happened to their ancestors 200 years ago?
01:07:43.000Americans and others have to stop falling for this thing of inherited guilt.
01:07:48.000You're not guilty for anything you didn't do.
01:07:50.000You're guilty for things you did yourself, but again going back to the Christian ethic, the sins of the father.
01:07:54.000The sins of the father ethic is deemed to be wrong for all sorts of reasons, but the sins of the great great great great could have possibly done something father ethic No way.
01:09:09.000And then you have a gap, and now you have kids where it's been revived.
01:09:12.000And like I said, so they don't know that this conversation has taken place, and we sort of said, all right, so now we get, okay, Fresh Prince.
01:09:18.000The biggest name in all of cinema and television is going to be Will Smith.
01:09:22.000And we're going to be watching and consuming black culture.
01:09:25.000I think, I mean, for crying out loud, you look at the collaboration efforts that have taken place between hip-hop artists And punk rock artists, I think, was it Pearl Jam?
01:09:35.000There's a generation that's got a totally wrong view of what this society is, what the Western societies are.
01:09:43.000You know, when I was growing up in Britain in the 80s, you know, the main evening news was read on main channel by a very famous black female broadcaster, and the main news on the other channel was read by a famous black male broadcaster.
01:09:55.000We didn't lack black representation at all.
01:10:57.000One goes into lockdown when a pair of shoelaces is found, a wet shoelace is found hanging on a hook and somebody says this is an attempted lynching.
01:11:16.000There is a part, at least, of this generation that's coming up that believes that they live in a country where the KKK routinely gather on campuses or just wander alone, you know.
01:11:28.000When I was in Seattle a little while ago, they had the Whole Foods, what was left of it, had a great big sign up saying, racists are not welcome here.
01:11:35.000Well, we didn't think that it was a gathering place for the Klan.
01:11:39.000What's the view you've got of your country that is so off?
01:11:44.000No, and you know who's probably more responsible for, uh, racists in 2022 than the Klan?
01:11:51.000And I'm only saying that half-joking, because obviously the content is crap, but, you know, we had, uh, uh, Family Matters, we'd have Fresh Prince of Bel- it was very mixed.
01:11:57.000And now, you've siloed BET and Tyler Perry, this is the Black Channel.
01:12:02.000And a big part of that is you don't want to culturally appropriate.
01:12:05.000And so you have people who are afraid to take part in each other's cultures.
01:12:08.000And so really now we've created, just like we have with music, just like we have with television in general, right, sort of the consumption of entertainment, everything is fragmented.
01:12:18.000And they now do this thing of, the worst is in the publishing industry in a way.
01:12:24.000That may sound rarefied but I can tell you.
01:12:27.000People say there aren't enough people of colour represented and there aren't enough trans people being published.
01:12:33.000Every publishing house is scouring the land for any transsexual they can find to publish a memoir.
01:12:41.000This is bonanza publishing decade if you're trans, or if you're a woman, or if you're a person of color.
01:12:47.000It's completely the opposite of the way it's portrayed.
01:12:52.000And the part of that is they don't even know that black people have a very, very rich history of publishing and writing books before they came along to save them, and suddenly force people into the publishing industry.
01:13:06.000It's a complete misunderstanding of the past and the present.
01:13:10.000And it's just, I don't know how you course-correct people who've got a completely wrong vision of everything up till themselves, and also misunderstand their own era.
01:13:20.000Well, I think you're doing your part, and I will say, I think someone like you can do a certain amount.
01:13:27.000And the only language that I think these people speak, for example, we were just talking about
01:13:31.000the language of shame with jihadists, is embarrassment, is turning them into a mockery.
01:13:36.000A lot of these, that's why they hate the term social justice, where the term woke, and then
01:13:39.000they try, they're trying to reappropriate it back.
01:13:42.000They can't stand being made into a mockery.
01:13:44.000That's why they go after comedians so hard.
01:13:46.000I mean, you think about it, the Christian right, they didn't even really go after, like,
01:13:50.000South Park when South Park had started.
01:14:02.000They haven't gone after, there have been some, but not en masse like you're seeing now with whoever it is, Dave Chappelle, Bill Bird, take your pick that given week, Dave.
01:14:12.000So there's, you know, me and Dave kind of doing our part is just, okay, the only language I think that they speak effectively is mockery.
01:14:17.000Unfortunately, there's been only academics on the right sort of balancing it because we've conceded a lot of that territory culturally.
01:14:25.000Well, it's not just conceding it culturally, although that's true.
01:14:28.000It's also, I mean, basically there is just fear in the culture.
01:14:39.000And so it's quite easy to create fear.
01:14:44.000What is going on in the West at the moment, about the West, is generated by fear.
01:14:49.000And basically, the analogy I use for this is It's the woke left operating like a shepherd with a sheepdog.
01:14:56.000Have you ever seen that masterful thing that happens?
01:14:59.000In order to make the herd move in the direction you want, you don't have, you don't, the dog doesn't run right into the middle of the herd.
01:16:39.000You mentioned the sort of sheepdogs and this herding.
01:16:43.000Which I was just talking about this recently because I have a friend, and I've done a little bit of dog training as more of a hobby, but we've had dog trainers come in.
01:16:49.000You've met Joe Louis, a dog that big and that powerful.
01:16:52.000If you don't have him in line, it's a problem.
01:16:54.000Someone has a chihuahua, they bite you, whatever.
01:16:56.000He bites somebody, I'm on the nightly news.
01:18:02.000Well, by the way, I don't want to stretch... In other words, I want to ragdoll them, but I don't want to kill them, is what I'm saying.
01:18:06.000I would also like to have my dog attack them.
01:18:08.000I don't want to stretch this analogy, but let me risk it.
01:18:13.000One of my contentions at the moment is that people in the West, particularly white Westerners, have been in a very strange position in recent years.
01:18:21.000We've been what I describe as polite and courteous.
01:19:49.000Now, of course they haven't thought about it, which is why they're obsessing with the stupid Halloween costumes each year.
01:19:55.000They haven't thought about it because it is absolutely impossible, this idea.
01:19:59.000The point with Western culture was that we didn't appropriate, we appreciated other cultures, we went out and found them, and when we admired them, we brought it into our own culture.
01:20:08.000There's nothing to be ashamed about about that.
01:20:11.000So, at some point, In the current era, it has to be possible to turn around and say, I'm sorry, I'm done with feeling guilt, I'm done with apologizing for things I didn't do, I'm done with being told I should feel shame for things, I'm done with being told that there's nothing good about my culture, my history, or my background, and here's the standoff, you don't respect my ancestors and my culture, why should I respect yours?
01:20:50.000Though I think that just ends up being another form of slavery, I'm not entirely sure.
01:20:53.000I want to talk about the differing views sort of in the UK and the United States as we go to Mug Club, because being raised in Canada, it's really just they want to be American so desperately, even though they have the queen on their money, that it might be a little bit different from where you were raised.
01:21:08.000And you mentioned America quite a bit.
01:21:09.000The book is The War in the West, Douglas Murray.
01:21:12.000We're about to talk about some things that...
01:21:15.000I'm not a mind reader, but I assume things that couldn't be permitted here on YouTube, you can feel free to get me demonetized all you want once we're done with Club YouTube.