In this episode of Change My Mind, Steven and Gabriela discuss the controversial topic of whether or not there are only two genders. They discuss the history of the gender binary, the current state of transgenderism in the United States and globally, and the role of intersex people in society.
00:00:00.000But you're a classical liberal in that sense, because even though we disagree, you can sit down, express your point of view, and some people on the left view that in and of itself as adding fuel to the fire.
00:01:02.000We went from the argument back then of gender being socially constructed and existing outside of a binary to now arguing that there are limitless genders and biological terms for sex being used interchangeably with those of gender.
00:01:15.000She is now the first female and openly transgender four-star officer with the U.S.
00:01:21.000Public Health Service Commissioned Corps.
00:01:23.000A transgender female inmate has been moved to a men's prison after impregnating two other biological female inmates.
00:01:32.000After studying Leah Thomas' times, from male to female, he says, statistically, she is an outlier.
00:01:40.000So why the drastic change in record time?
00:01:43.000And how exactly did the students at Texas Women's University rationalize it?
00:01:48.000Well, meet Gabriela, who may just have provided my favorite conversation in all of Change My Mind history.
00:02:30.000I don't know how familiar you are, if at all, with the kind of change-of-mind concept, but... Okay, so it's an opportunity to sit down and hopefully rationalize our positions on seemingly controversial topics.
00:02:43.000This is one that, to me, is interesting because I'm revisiting it.
00:03:57.000And I know many people that of course do agree with this.
00:04:03.000Again, I very much disagree because I view sex and gender as two things.
00:04:08.000And typically, whenever you hear about biological sex, typically it's male or female.
00:04:15.000Of course, you have people who are intersex and stuff like that, and I do view gender and sex as two different things, and I definitely do view gender as a spectrum.
00:05:22.000But that's not what's even being taught today.
00:05:23.000So, for example, you have this administration, Joe Biden, referring to Rachel Levine not as our first woman four-star admiral, but first female.
00:05:33.000And now when you look on government forms, if you're transgender, you will check the female box, depending on the form.
00:05:39.000So we are using them fundamentally interchangeably, and I would say the reason for that is because it was only up until very recently that sex and gender were used interchangeably.
00:05:48.000The idea that they are separate is a very modern theory.
00:05:52.000I would argue it's not rooted in reality.
00:05:54.000It started with French existentialism and then through postmodern feminism.
00:06:00.000And now we end up at the point where no one can agree on how many genders there are or what we should do with children who are transgender because we've decided to tear down an institution but have replaced it with nothing.
00:06:42.000It probably smells like a turtle cage.
00:06:45.000No, what I was saying is the idea that gender and sex are separate is very new and it's not used consistently anymore because you now have men and women checking, for example, transgender male to females, checking female boxes, not woman boxes on government forums.
00:07:00.000You have the Former President of the United States Joe Biden, President of the United States, referring to Rachel Levine as the first female four-star admirable, right, Secretary of Health.
00:07:11.000They're using, they're using biological terms and the reason for that is that they've always been interchangeable until very recently.
00:07:20.000That's a very modern change and I would argue that that's why they're not even able to be consistent with that.
00:07:24.000So I don't understand the basis for someone saying that gender is separate from sex if it's not even agreed upon by the left and transgender activists today.
00:07:35.000So, you say that it wasn't until very recently.
00:07:40.000I don't know how recent you're talking.
00:07:44.000So it actually, and I would encourage you, if you do, you can go research this, because if I provide people my resources, they think I'm just lying, but I make them publicly available.
00:07:52.000Started with, there was a lady named, there was someone named Simone de Beauvoir, 1949, was the first person to say that sex is biological and gender is societally constructed, right?
00:08:02.000This was the first time that idea was floated.
00:08:04.000But it still existed within the binary that women could identify as men, but men could identify as women, but not this idea that there were other genders.
00:08:14.000It was still two, but that it was largely societal.
00:08:18.000It was reiterated by a few other people.
00:08:20.000Then, you may have learned this in college, the John Money Twins study.
00:08:34.000I believe the other from a drug overdose because he sexually molested them.
00:08:38.000And the reason that's important is because, as you've acknowledged, that was taught on college campus.
00:08:42.000If you raise a twin as a boy and a twin as a girl, it was proof that it was societally constructed.
00:08:47.000But it actually had lethal ramifications.
00:08:49.000Both of them had all kinds of mental health disorders and ended up offing themselves, which is a tragedy.
00:08:54.000But it still, even with John Money, existed within the binary.
00:08:58.000Only until Judith Butler in the 80s and 90s did they say gender is societally constructed and, by the way, there are more than two genders.
00:09:06.000And it was not created by, it was not a theory that was floated from scientists, from doctors.
00:09:12.000It was floated from existentialists and feminists.
00:09:15.000It's not rooted in reality, and before that, gender was really a grammatical term.
00:09:19.000You know, from the romance languages, like, I speak... French is my first language, or, you know, any of the languages based in Latin, right?
00:09:30.000It's not like it's something that's been agreed upon for a long time, and now we've come full circle, where we're using them interchangeably again, because we're calling transgender men to women females.
00:10:27.000Now this matters, right, because, for example, if someone fills out on a government form, right now, they'll fill out their sex and say they're a biological male, but they fill out female.
00:10:37.000Or when they're admitted to the hospital, right, often it's a biological term, but if they identify that way, they will often fill out, or legally they can fill out, how they identify.
00:10:48.000As a nurse, as a doctor, you need to know what you're dealing with.
00:10:51.000Absolutely, and yes, like you said, on documents now, you can legally do the gender that you identify with, which amazing, great step forward for that.
00:11:07.000But those people do have to make sure that they're like, hey, biologically, this is what I was assigned to at birth, and you treat them using those metrics.
00:11:16.000However, that doesn't mean that you don't treat them with respect or treat them In some instances, it's illegal to ask the follow-up question, right?
00:11:29.000In other words, if someone comes in who's biologically a male but identifies as female, if you follow up and say, well, were you born a male?
00:11:36.000You're actually not allowed to ask that question, depending where you are.
00:11:39.000In certain countries, that's actually considered discrimination, because they identify.
00:11:44.000Well, even in certain areas, there have been lawsuits in the United States that are right now going up to the Supreme Court, and I think that matters.
00:11:49.000For example, we now hear men can get pregnant.
00:11:53.000You know as a nursing student, it's not true.
00:11:56.000Again, it's very different, because if you view men only from a biological standpoint and not just how they identify, then sure, biologically males cannot be, but if you identify as a male, but you have female reproductive organs, then yes, you can get pregnant.
00:12:29.000But they don't tell you that they were born a male or a female.
00:12:32.000This is something that we are facing in our medical establishments right now That's why Johns Hopkins said we won't perform the sexual reassignment surgery He just saw this from the NHS in the UK that they have a problem with it They've removed language from their website because they're finding that there are serious health consequences that come along with this and I would say I understand I think I think I understand where you're coming from.
00:14:43.000I think this should just be a very calm conversation.
00:14:47.000Yes, historically transgender youth, especially in sentences performed by things such as the
00:14:53.000Trevor Project, it seemed that transgender youth are four times more likely to commit
00:14:57.000suicide than their cisgender counterparts.
00:15:00.000And that goes even higher with people of color, especially Native American slash indigenous people.
00:15:07.000And while that is there, I don't think that is a They're committing suicide because I may be a hundred percent Misinterpreting what you were saying how how you meant that whenever you said it But it came off as though you meant that in a way of like they're committing suicide because they're transitioning Yeah, well the sense of like they're almost being forced to transition
00:16:04.000Well, they didn't have the same attempted suicide rate.
00:16:08.000Jews in the Holocaust didn't have a four-time suicide rate, not even close.
00:16:12.000Americans pre-civil rights, what I'm saying is people who have been discriminated against and truly, I think we would both agree, abused and mistreated, even if you go to gays, for example, in the United States in the 80s during the HIV epidemic, right, where they were very stigmatized.
00:16:26.000They didn't have anywhere near this attempted suicide rate, and it exists both pre and post-op.
00:16:31.000And the reason that I bring it up is because I think that you're, I mean, I think you're a kind person, I think you're obviously a respectful person, but limited time I've had with you.
00:16:38.000I think it's misframed, for example, where people think if I say the solution is not transitioning or changing the entire societal structure to limitless genders, it's not because my heart doesn't break for these people, it's because Okay.
00:16:53.000That's a very interesting viewpoint to have.
00:16:54.000Again, I don't necessarily agree with it.
00:16:56.000transitioning doesn't make it any better, it may make it worse.
00:17:26.000I can see that aspect of it because I have that viewpoint.
00:17:32.000Whereas people perhaps like you may not, and that was very polarizing, I apologize for that.
00:17:38.000No, no, no, I understand, and actually... But people from your viewpoint perhaps may not be able to see it, but I do know a lot of queer people do have a lot more of those issues.
00:17:50.000Not necessarily, but it was because how they were treated.
00:17:53.000Which is why, again, I don't necessarily agree that it is because it is of transitioning Well, what I'm saying is, for example, and I would like to go back to the term queer, where you can probably educate me, because it means different things to different people, and honestly, I feel sometimes that I don't get a handle on it.
00:18:43.000I have suffered from clinical depression in my life, to a very severe degree.
00:18:48.000So I can relate to it and I have again because I was very much a fish out of water.
00:18:53.000I can relate to it in a way that might surprise people, even though I'm a white male.
00:18:56.000I was an English-speaking, half-American, conservative male in a socialist, liberal province that forced me into French schools.
00:19:03.000And I think that rather than someone saying it was because of the mistreatment, but examining, finally, my issues that I could control, where I did suffer from depression and ADHD, that it helped me a lot.
00:19:17.000I did have people who enabled it at certain periods of time, rather than getting to the root cause.
00:19:21.000What I'm saying is, when you look at the mistreatment of groups throughout history, they still don't have anywhere near the attempted suicide rate of transgenders, including queer women, in the Bible Belt.
00:19:32.000It's still not 4 times or 18 times, so there must be another variable there, and if we shut down the dialogue, we may never actually examine what that variable is.
00:19:44.000Like I said, again, I don't 100% agree with that, especially because I'm viewing it from a youth standpoint of younger, of, say, people my generation, because I know for a fact that our generation probably has the most mental health issues that this country has ever seen, and it's because of circumstances that have happened as we have grown up.
00:20:05.000Let me ask you this, would you say, are you Generation Z?
00:20:09.000Would you say, and I don't want to mischaracterize this, statistically I would say this is true, but would you say that Generation Z is probably or arguably the most open-minded generation as it relates to these gender issues?
00:20:23.000So when you combine that with the fact that your generation still has more mental health issues than all that have come before it, How do you juxtapose that and say it's because of mistreatment?
00:20:32.000It's the most tolerant generation of all time, and they have more mental health issues than, for example, men coming back from World War II.
00:20:40.000I think that's actually a great question.
00:20:46.000I know, which is why I think it's an absolutely great conversation.
00:20:49.000So, the reason I believe that Gen Z does have the most mental health issues is you have to realize that we start, what, the very first year is 1998.
00:21:01.000So that means that what you have 1999, 2000, 2001, the very first people were in this generation were three years into their lives was 9-11, which was arguably the worst terrorist attack that has happened in the United States and on American soil.
00:21:23.000Many Gen Z, they don't even remember it.
00:21:25.000I feel really old when I talk about it.
00:21:37.000But you do have to realize that the world, especially in America, changed very drastically after 2001.
00:21:43.000It changed very drastically after, there's very much a, and this is taught in history classes, there's very much a difference between Pre 9-11 and very much a difference between post 9-11 and post 9-11 is seen as its own part of history because a lot of things have changed nowadays kids in my generation aren't allowed to go outside because they're too worried about safety whereas
00:22:11.000People may ask how old you are, is that right?
00:22:20.000My parents growing up were just allowed to go outside and their parents didn't care where they were, whereas my parents were like, no, you're a girl, you can't go outside by yourself, even if it is in suburbia.
00:22:33.000We have to deal with a lot of Because the world is very much changing, and in a lot of places it's changed for the worse.
00:22:42.000And especially since we have a lot of media that typically just pummels you with all these bad things that are happening in the world, that very much changes a generation.
00:22:52.000And if you are constantly seeing that, and you are constantly exposed to life-changing things, dead bodies, wars, terrorist attacks, It very much changes your perception on life.
00:23:06.000And it's very easy for people in my generation to feel hopeless because of that, not because we're open-minded.
00:23:12.000I believe that our generation is so open-minded because we see all the bad things happening in the world.
00:23:19.000Because we're like, oh, we can at least be compassionate for one another.
00:23:32.000I've changed my mind on issues in the past.
00:23:34.000I don't think you've changed my mind on this issue, but what you have done is present a compelling argument that I think should be included.
00:23:40.000I've discussed this in the past, that we certainly do have... Let me put it this way.
00:23:45.000I don't think that this Generation Z has it harder than 16-year-olds on the beaches of Normandy.
00:23:52.000But I believe they had a sense of purpose, right?
00:23:53.000That they were fighting an evil Nazi regime, whereas I do think Your point is well taken.
00:24:00.000When you combine this constant flow of information, and yes, negativity, with what I do think is, considering this kind of, like you said, post-911, post-war, in the global sense, generation, a lack of purpose, that It's a chronic stressor rather than an acute one.
00:24:20.000And I can see how that can be damaging.
00:24:22.000You have to remember that a lot of those boys that were sent off in the war also, a lot of them typically lied on their things to go off to war because that was something they needed for their families and stuff like that.
00:24:57.000We've all lived through a global pandemic, but I was in high school whenever that happened, and I was supposed to be graduating, and we had to wear masks, we had to social distance from each other, and it was very hard to have that social thing as it was for everyone in the world.
00:25:14.000We've had all sorts of things that have happened within our lifetime that are these big global events, which is why I don't think it's... I don't think being open-minded is inhibiting us at all.
00:25:25.000No, and I wasn't saying... because you're two kind of separate issues.
00:25:30.000I think we both agree there are more mental health issues with this generation than previous generations.
00:25:33.000But what I am saying is that this generation, for example the transgender suicide statistics, don't really change generationally.
00:25:40.000So you would think that transgenders from, let's say, millennials, from Gen X,
00:25:44.000you would think that the rates would be higher there.
00:26:11.000It's the only place that has a 40, over 40% attempted suicide rate, which is approximate with transgender individuals.
00:26:17.000Which brings me kind of to another point.
00:26:20.000I really do think it's a thoughtful point that you made and I actually would like to go do more research and actually look at the before and after 9-11 mental health issues.
00:28:12.000It shouldn't be an ethical quandary, but now it is.
00:28:15.000And what I would say is, look, we've had two genders, and we understand, I think you seem intelligent enough to know that I acknowledge the 0.01% who are intersex, and these are anomalies.
00:28:25.000It's not the same as the transgender issue.
00:28:31.000I believe that that was from a study in 2002, and I believe the number now is about 1.7%, which is about the same number of redheads in the world, so that's like 70... I know that study that they brought up, but then actually we had a, what's his name, a journalist, Scaramucci, I can't remember his name, when I was at UTD, try and bring that up, and in that very study, it actually said the number is closer to .01.
00:28:58.000So even in that study, they had misread the statistics.
00:29:03.000It's certainly not over 1%, but we can disagree.
00:29:07.000I would maintain it's not only a 2002 study.
00:29:09.000There have been studies reiterated since then.
00:29:12.000But even then, what I would say is this.
00:29:13.000Let's say it's 1% for the sake of argument.
00:29:16.000In nursing school, for example, it's certainly a higher percentage of people who are born without a limb than people who are intersex.
00:29:23.000But you're still taught, in biology class, there are exceptions.
00:29:26.000Human beings generally have two arms, two legs.
00:29:29.000For example, you use hearing aids, right?
00:29:32.000But in biology, I'm sure, in nursing school, they probably teach you basics about the ear drums, right?
00:29:36.000Basics about the ear canal, and say, and there are exceptions to these rules, but this is generally the human anatomy.
00:29:43.000We are now asking people to restructure how we teach biology based on a very small percentage, and if we say, well, no, two genders is wrong, if you tear down that, what I would say is a fundamental structure in society, I think you need to replace it with something equally concrete, not, it could change at any time.
00:30:03.000You say that we're teaching people that there's more than there actually is.
00:30:12.000Yes, as far as sex, we're not being taught.
00:30:15.000Sure, it is mentioned that there are intersex people, and I don't think that we should look over those people because they have identities.
00:30:23.000And they present their own set of medical things that you have to look into because nowadays you hear a lot of stories about intersex people who No, I don't overlook, but I'm saying how we teach it.
00:30:44.000How we teach it is that we have male and female, like you said.
00:30:46.000They teach two, and they teach there are some exceptions.
00:30:49.000But they don't teach that there are limitless sexes.
00:30:51.000No, because sex and gender again are two things and we are taught that they are two separate entities.
00:30:56.000But that's not where we are though, right? Because when you have people, again, this would be, I would agree with you,
00:33:39.000But let me ask you this, and I would like to go back to the sort of the queer topic, but... I didn't use that term, the queer topic, but the term and how it identifies, because it does tie into this.
00:33:48.000I have asked this question here today, and understand this is not a gotcha, it is a serious concern for someone like me as a father.
00:33:55.000The idea now, and when I brought this up in 2018, people said that's absurd, you're trying to be incendiary.
00:34:05.000The idea of transitioning, of puberty blockers for children.
00:34:08.000You're a nurse as well, you're going to be a nurse, apologies.
00:34:16.000One person who is pro-LGBT agreed with me.
00:34:20.000One person did not believe that children should be allowed to make those decisions to transition.
00:34:25.000If we can't find common ground that children are in no position to make permanent decisions regarding their biological makeup and blocking puberty or undergoing gender reassignment surgery, as civil as this discourse has been, I don't think there's any hope to find common ground.
00:34:41.000Where do you line up on children transition?
00:34:44.000I personally, just because I think that's completely different from what is being advertised right here.
00:34:51.000Well, no, let me explain to you why it's not.
00:34:56.000I believe that it should be up to the child and the parents, up to doctors, up to... I don't think it should be made illegal because that just... there are very... How do I phrase this?
00:35:15.000Sorry, I'm trying to get my... I will say, I completely believe it should be illegal for the same reason that 10-year-olds can't consent to sex.
00:35:56.000I'm not sure that the rates of gender reassignment surgery in trans children is very high, for the fact that most doctors are not going to want to do that, as it is seen that most doctors aren't wanting to do gender reassignment surgeries, as you mentioned earlier with John Hopkins saying, I don't know about that.
00:36:18.000Well, since it hasn't happened yet, but if we open it up, for example, there are lawsuits against Johns Hopkins right now, right?
00:36:24.000Just because we haven't done it yet, it's because there have been archaic fossils like me who say, well, we can't allow children to transition.
00:36:31.000If we allow it, you're going to have a much, much higher number, right?
00:36:53.000Let me give you, and this is something that is, and this is something that is important, again.
00:36:57.000With children, for example, children who identify as transgender, if you do nothing, if you do nothing, if you don't intervene, the lowest number you will find from a larger study is about 85%.
00:37:07.000There are numbers as high as 97% of them grow out of it completely.
00:37:12.000They were a tomboy, some of them were gay, right?
00:37:16.000The moment you intervene and you administer puberty blockers or hormone replacement therapy, the number goes down to zero.
00:37:25.000And by the way, once that number goes down to zero, that means that 100% of those children are now in the 42% attempted suicide demographic.
00:37:32.000But who's to say that the children that don't get help before aren't also going to be in that same geographic?
00:37:39.000Statistically, they grow out of it, and it was a phase.
00:37:42.000It was a phase for most of these kids.
00:37:44.000It's 85 to 97 percent where they grow out of it, just like kids grow out of a lot of things, right?
00:37:49.000I don't think that's... I don't necessarily agree with that, because, especially in, again, may I ask, are you in the LGBTQ community?
00:38:00.000No, I'm not LGBT, but I'm talking about the fact that most of these children, some of them do say, you know what, it turns out, I have a friend actually on the show, said, I thought I was trans, turns out I was just a gay man.
00:38:11.000So some of those 90 something percent end up being gay or lesbian.
00:38:16.000But they all grow out of claiming to be transgender.
00:38:20.000Only when you intervene and you change the neurochemistry, which we know if you administer puberty blockers or estrogen or testosterone, right?
00:38:26.000That changes the way the brain develops.
00:38:28.000Now you've actually changed their course.
00:38:29.000They grow out of it and no longer identify as trans if there's no intervention when they are children.
00:38:35.000But who's to say that they can't detransition?
00:38:38.000Because, again, that argument is brought up a lot.
00:38:43.000It's actually, they've discovered that it's kind of being blown up, kind of out of proportion, the number of people.
00:38:51.000The media very much blows up the number of people that are detransitioning whenever it's not as big as many people think.
00:38:59.000They're dismissed and they're marginalized.
00:39:00.000But, if that number, if that's so significant, and the argument of people transitioning is like, oh, what if they want to de-transition?
00:39:10.000Why can't you say the same thing for these children?
00:39:13.000Again, gender reassignment surgery... Because it's the Hippocratic Oath, first do no harm, and puberty blockers, and intervention, hormonally on a child.
00:39:22.000Absolutely does more harm than doing nothing.
00:39:26.000Maybe the harm, some people would argue the harm is minimal, but no one is arguing that puberty blockers do not come with the risk of sterility, a high risk when compared to other drugs.
00:39:35.000No one is arguing that puberty blockers often stunt growth permanently.
00:39:40.000No one is arguing that administering testosterone to a teenage girl will change her body, her bone mineral density, which to an unnatural degree, no one is arguing that or that estrogen for a young boy will result in developmental abnormalities in their
00:40:19.000You were fundamentally taught that not only is the physical body something that you treat, Mental the mind is also something those are two very interconnected things in order for a person to be healthy Not only do they have to have a healthy body, but they also have to have a healthy mind So with that I'm looking at it at the sense of if these children Again, because me and you look at that suicide rate very differently, which is where I think we're coming at kind of like this
00:40:50.000I think we both have concern, though, which I appreciate.
00:40:58.000Because, again, I think that I'm not 100% sure that children should have gender reassignment surgery just because it's a very invasive procedure.
00:41:09.000I don't believe that they should be able to have that until they're 18.
00:41:29.000The problem is, in other words, if you were to be able to say, If we intervene, this is medically necessary for their mental health, but the attempted suicide rate stays the same, irrefutably.
00:41:41.000You've now performed, by what you've described, and I agree with you, a very medically invasive, whether it's surgery or puberty blockers, and you've not improved the mental health.
00:41:50.000As a matter of fact, you could make it worse once that child grows up and realizes, oh my god, I would have grown out of it, but they never were given the chance to.
00:41:57.000I think... And again, you can medically detransition.
00:42:02.000Not everybody can with puberty blockers.
00:42:55.000Going through puberty and when you're an adult capable of making decisions, deciding to transition.
00:42:59.000Yeah, like I said, I do think we're hitting our wall, which is... but that's completely okay.
00:43:06.000I think we have more common ground than maybe... I understand where you're coming from, and I really do appreciate how respectful you've been.
00:43:12.000I'm sorry that these hooligans have been yelling.
00:43:30.000No, you can call me whatever you want.
00:43:31.000Okay, because I know some people... I grew up very much where manners aren't very much a thing and I know some other places it's like if you're called sir, like you're calling them old, that's rude.
00:43:41.000No, no, you can call me whatever you want.
00:43:43.000You've been very respectful and I really have enjoyed our conversation.
00:43:45.000Historically, queer has been used to mean the word strange, odd.
00:43:50.000Okay, queer. I was like, I was like, I'm so sorry.
00:43:54.000Um, so yes, uh, historically queer has been used to mean the word strange, odd.
00:44:03.000Um, I still use it when watching, it used to be a term like on boxing, they say,
00:44:07.000the guy gets, you know, like clipped, they would say, oh, let's put him on queer street.
00:44:10.000And that just means that he's, he's out of it.
00:44:13.000So it wasn't even a sexual term, it was just like queer street meant you're close to getting knocked out.
00:44:20.000But, uh, queer ended up being used as a derogatory term towards LGBTQ plus people, which is, because, of course, words, of course, have their trajectory in history, their usage.
00:44:32.000It happens a lot with a bunch of different terms.
00:44:35.000Um, but now, um, the, a lot of LGBTQ plus people, that's what the Q is in LGBTQ, right?
00:44:49.000It's just very... But the Q is used... Queer is very much, especially in the community, is used as an umbrella term.
00:45:00.000Just to encompass people that perhaps wouldn't want to identify as anything else, don't prefer other labels.
00:45:11.000So you're not lesbian, does queer mean that you're, you're not bisexual, but you're not lesbian, does queer mean, what does queer mean then?
00:45:19.000Because again, I would be like, okay, bisexual, lesbian, I understand.
00:45:21.000I think, again, I think very much like the whole gender identity thing.
00:45:26.000I think it's just kind of how you personally identify.
00:45:30.000I use queer just because I don't feel as though anything else truly encompasses me as a person.
00:45:38.000You can always tell me if they're too invasive.
00:45:40.000Do you mean as far as your orientation, or your gender, or both?
00:45:52.000So again, it would seem to me that that would fit under bisexual.
00:45:59.000I don't feel 100% comfortable talking 100% about it, or especially just on camera.
00:46:06.000So typically people that are bisexual experience, and again you probably are going to hear this and be like, I don't know.
00:46:17.000Which is why I think it's wonderful to explain a little bit more.
00:46:22.000I'm genuinely curious because I've had different people give me different definitions of queer.
00:46:27.000Yes, so um, like I said, queer is very much used as an umbrella term for a lot of different people and I like that label a lot just because it's not ultra specific because again it's just an umbrella term and it's not like I'm picking and choosing at things just because I'm not a huge fan of labels because I realize that a lot of people Right.
00:47:13.000Or more, typically bisexual people, the definition within the community and which is more widely accepted is those that are attracted to two or more genders.
00:47:46.000Yeah, that is very hard for people to grasp, but it's very much two genders, or very much two or more genders.
00:47:57.000Which is, again, that whole concept goes with our... there are only two genders, because especially underneath, like, things such as bisexual or even labels such as pansexual, which is not often talked about.
00:51:38.000It's just, it's rooted in not only a very different worldview, but I would argue, like, there is a lot of data to reflect We're going down a very dangerous path with like children transitioning and unfortunately you've seen here today people get shouted down and that's something we have to get past even if
00:51:58.000Even if I was baby Hitler, which I'm not!
00:52:00.000I'm just saying that, you know, we need to be able to have these conversations.
00:52:03.000And I really appreciate you doing that.
00:52:05.000I think a big part of that is probably because, kind of like me, you know, I was raised as a conservative Christian in a very, very left, right, very left.
00:52:54.000But I grew up seeing conservatives as very intolerant and it was just because the conservative people that I had in my life were very intolerant in the sense of they're not open to conversation.
00:53:06.000Which is why, um, today, whenever I see people walking by and just being like, oh, blah blah blah, I'm just like, you either, one, should ignore it, it's, if, ignore it, or, I, adding fuel to the fire isn't that great, it's...
00:53:23.000It's just, there's no... If you can't have a conversation about it, nothing's gonna get done.
00:53:27.000But you're a classical liberal in that sense, because even though we disagree, you can sit down, express your point of view, and some people on the left view that in and of itself as adding fuel to the fire.
00:54:51.000The worst thing is, so it's this woman who's in, she's like a victim of a guy who had locked up, had inbred in the basement, and had a bunch of children, and she's obsessed with locking people, and trying to make them her babies.
00:55:05.000So she forcefully breastfeeds them, and she's inbred.