In this episode of Change My Mind, we discuss whether or not women should not be in roles of combat in the military. Olivia, a former high school wrestler and current Texas Women's University student, and Ploy, a young lady who is also a wrestler, have very differing opinions based on their experiences.
00:02:22.000I don't know how familiar you are, if at all, with the Change My Mind kind of format, but it's basically a way for us to rationalize our positions on seemingly controversial topics.
00:02:30.000To clarify my stance today, yeah, I don't believe that women, and I use the term women here because it is exclusively for women that we've lowered PT requirements and standards and barriers to entry in the military and the police force as far as enlisted services, as far as combat roles.
00:02:51.000I don't believe that they should be in roles of physical combat where they would encounter violence for a multitude of reasons, largely because of safety issues both for them, but more importantly, their squad mates and the citizens they're sworn to protect.
00:03:05.000If you disagree with me, I'm more than happy to hear why and change my mind.
00:03:10.000Alright, so, um, I know you said, like, your main concern with it is, um, the women joining are lowering the PT requirements, so I don't necessarily... The military has lowered it so they can join.
00:03:22.000Yeah, I don't necessarily think that, um, that should mean that women should not be in combat roles.
00:03:29.000I mean, if your problem with that is that the PT requirements are being lowered, I think... I don't think the PT requirements should be lowered.
00:03:43.000But I don't feel like that should mean that, like, just women shouldn't be in combat roles in general, because there are those, like, exceptions of women who are just, like, oh, sorry.
00:03:51.000Women who are just, like, naturally stronger or bigger or, like, stuff like that that would be able to keep up with the natural PT requirements.
00:05:03.000I think I think that my problem with the statement is just it was very broad because like there's always exceptions and There's like there's a lot of woman that I could just think off of the top of my head that could make it well there I would bet you it's not a lot off the top of your head.
00:05:32.000For example, right now in the Marines, this stat kind of blew my mind.
00:05:35.000A woman in the Marines can do half as many pull-ups as a man and get a perfect score.
00:05:40.000And that's not the only standard I'm using.
00:05:41.000I'm just using it because it's a very clear metric.
00:05:44.000But when we're talking about this, the reason this is broad is because legislatively the only reason that our standards have been lowered, to the point of them being frankly kind of embarrassing for our military, is to accommodate women.
00:06:51.000So my only my only issue with the statement is it just said women like and obviously I knew that's just like a broad statement.
00:06:58.000It's hard to fit it all on the sign and say, because from 1971 to this, you know, we went from less push-ups to no push-ups.
00:07:05.000We went from pull-ups to less pull-ups to no pull-ups, to not even doing a leg tuck.
00:07:09.000Like, that's tough to fit on a sign, but that's the policy of the military is to be more inclusive, and to be more inclusive, you're less ready.
00:07:14.000Yeah, no, I don't think inclusion should matter for things like, like I get, like, people want, like, inclusion here and there, representation, like, stuff like that.
00:07:23.000But, like, when it comes to, like, serious things... You just rolled your eyes.
00:07:26.000Inclusion... Sounds like maybe you're tired of that a little bit.
00:07:31.000But, um, I'm saying when it comes to, like, things like the military, the PT standards, I don't think they should be dropped because even though that'll mean technically less women will be able to join, I think the ones that would join would be the ones that actually belong and, like, would be able to keep up and, like, actually, like, do their job professionally.
00:09:28.000Let me hear it because you do have biological men going into women's wrestling.
00:09:31.000I hate that and I know a lot of people want to be like it's inclusion matters but by taking like biological men and allowing them to compete in women's sports you're taking away from The biological woman because you're gonna have all these biological men dominating the categories and then you'll confront someone about that and you'll be like well if it's just a coincidence and if testosterone doesn't play a big role in this then how is it every they'll go from like the like 150th best in the men's category and then instantly to the first in the women's category.
00:10:01.000Like there's a reason we have a men's division and a woman's division.
00:10:04.000And that's why we're here today, because I've done men should not compete in women's sports, biological men should not compete in women's sports, and boy was I met with screeching from the people you were discussing.
00:11:05.000It's a nice... It's a welcome break from some of the people on this campus.
00:11:08.000So, you know, there are these studies you can find, and they were largely conducted in Japan, that a woman is 60% as strong as a man.
00:11:14.000And I was thinking, I'm like, that doesn't sound right.
00:11:16.000And then when I looked it up, well, these were studies in Japan, and there's a very big difference between, for example, Nordic, you know, males and females, the men are much bigger than the women, than Japanese men are to Japanese women.
00:11:26.000These were very limited instances of, like, a leg press, you know, where they would sort of measure the actual contractile strength of the muscle, but not in a practical fashion.
00:11:33.000So, in that same study, I believe, or in that paper at least, they measured grip strength.
00:11:38.000And you know, this is important in wrestling.
00:11:39.000It's particularly important in judo, because you're grabbing fabric.
00:11:42.000Most women are weaker in their grip than 95% of men, but they took women from judo, from wrestling, from Olympic weightlifting, the most elite Olympic athletes, female athletes, and their grip strength was still weaker than 75% of men.
00:12:06.000I wouldn't even be too shocked, because, like, I think, like, because of, like, TV and, like, all, like, the, um, like, the roles that, like, certain, like, like, women are put in, where they, like, just have, like, Yeah, they have a chick beat up five guys.
00:12:20.000It becomes kind of like a normal thing to think about.
00:12:43.000You look at everything with men, like the bone density, fast stretch fibers.
00:12:46.000No, but no, you're absolutely right, and I think, look, I think what you've said is very reasonable.
00:12:50.000I think as a woman with skin in the game, because, you know, you wrestle, what I would, and I've been asking, I've actually met quite a few women here who have really been wonderful to speak with.
00:12:58.000I would ask you, not forcing you, this is not patriarchy, that you present your reasoned viewpoints on a campus where they would be less than popular when women bring up the kind of arguments that I encounter.
00:13:08.000We need women like you who are well-spoken, who understand the differences, to be able to speak out because I do think that a lot of women are afraid if they have a differing opinion from what they're supposed to have.
00:13:19.000A lot of girls have expressed that today.
00:14:27.000So, Ploy, I don't know how familiar you are, if at all, with kind of the Change of Mind segments, but it's designed to hopefully allow people to rationalize their positions on seemingly controversial topics.
00:14:46.000I do not believe that women, biological women, should be in combat roles, meaning enlisted services.
00:14:52.000For example, police roles that would involve violent altercations because of the fact that they are not only physically less capable, but it also brings up safety issues as it relates to not only themselves, but their brothers in arms.
00:15:06.000And I say women just because It could be men who don't meet these PT requirements either, but we've only systematically lowered the standards in our military police force for women, and they fail anyway.
00:15:19.000So, I was talking to the guy over there before about it, and my take was on, so I think it's an issue based on the format, on how we test it between men and women, rather than it being an issue between men and women, because The example I used is, so I'm a wrestler.
00:15:36.000I'm on the wrestling team in my school.
00:17:07.000No, if we're saying, for example, if your position is, hey, if we return to the standards of the 70s, for example, the same exact standards that were required of men, and women met those, sure.
00:17:33.000For every percentage point you increase a squad of police with women, every percentage point of women that you add to it, the chances of them being the victim of violence, the entire squad goes up 20%.
00:17:45.000So we don't have the real world data of those elite capable women, but if we did return to those standards and the data would bear out that they were just as capable, I would have no problem.
00:17:54.000But wouldn't it be an argue not on women, then, and based on... You're saying, like, the standards have lowered so much.
00:17:59.000Wouldn't that be the issue on the standards?
00:18:19.000And so, legislatively, it's that those women shouldn't be in combat.
00:18:24.000There are plenty of women right now in combat roles who are supremely unqualified and they make their squad mates, uh, they put them in danger.
00:19:07.000If you're talking to me, I think, I think, personally, when you're talking about police force, when you're talking about the military, I think there is, there should be more money going into, you know, training.
00:19:18.000I know that right now, training with defusing situations isn't very good.
00:19:29.000I'm not very like Familiar with that, but I know the training isn't as good as it could be and I feel like for me I Feel like my problem like I came here for this like to talk to you It's more like one my problem is with the question because I feel like the question is way too generalized.
00:19:46.000That's not a question It's a statement the statement is to generalize.
00:19:49.000I'm sorry and I just feel like My issue is more with, you're saying, the standard rather than the biological difference.
00:19:57.000Yes, but hopefully, let me try and clarify again.
00:20:01.000We have only legislatively, because of the modern feminist movement, lowered the standards, which I believe is sexist, because women are weaker and less capable than men.
00:20:10.000So we have only lowered them for women.
00:20:11.000We haven't lowered them for anyone else.
00:20:39.000I said, could you say that because of the technological advancements we have today in the military and in artillery, that there is a less physical demand in the military?
00:20:53.000I was going to say, and you're saying combat roles, but there are a lot of combat roles that don't necessarily need as much physical demand.
00:21:16.000In the military, For example, combat roles, aside from the reflexes, where women are not quite as quick as men, they tend to make very proficient pilots.
00:21:24.000I still don't have any problem with intel officer roles.
00:21:27.000Or if it's, for example, drone operation, where these tests can be blind, right?
00:21:31.000The issue is the tests for physical combat readiness are not blind.
00:21:35.000They are inherently, I argue, sexist, in that they are embarrassingly low for women, and the real world, so we might say, Sure, there are technological advancements.
00:21:44.000It doesn't change the fact that the bone fracture rate is astronomical for women the second you put them under load-bearing, which makes sense because of less bone mineral density.
00:21:52.000The fact that they're discharged for physical disability at a rate much higher than men, and also, by the way, several multiples higher, to be discharged with PTSD, to require psychotropic medication.
00:22:02.000So there is a psychological component, where we've also lowered some of those standards exclusively for women.
00:22:08.000I believe that's inherently sexist, but more importantly, it doesn't make us a safer fighting force to lower those standards.
00:22:16.000For the... When you're talking about psychologically, I feel like there is... Like, I feel like it is sexist towards men.
00:22:22.000I do feel like men should be taken as seriously when it comes to mental health and military as women are, and I feel like there is both issues with both sides.
00:23:07.000Women should not be out there where they're going to deal with a guy my size on PCP.
00:23:10.000But even if you are in IT, even if you are, like, when you are in the military, you're at risk for... Well, I'm talking about police force because I think it's more clear here.
00:23:16.000Okay, so you're switching to police force now instead of the military.
00:23:18.000No, but I've said combat roles and I've said both police force when I sat down.
00:23:22.000So if you're talking about drones, that's technically combat.
00:23:24.000I was very clear in saying, and let me restate, I'm not saying that women cannot be in the military.
00:23:28.000I'm not saying that women cannot be in the police force.
00:23:30.000I'm saying that lowering the standards, as we have done decade after decade after decade, to increase female recruitment as part of a diversity agenda has resulted in more violence against women and a less capable military and police force.
00:23:44.000So in the police force, we're not talking about drones.
00:23:47.000We're talking about being out there having to apprehend someone physically.
00:24:43.000It's remained stagnant since about 2000, but increased dramatically.
00:24:46.000As that number has gone up of women and we've lowered requirements, that's when we face the recruitment crisis.
00:24:50.000Now, I'm not saying it's because women have been enlisted, but it unequivocally cannot be argued that recruiting more women increases our capacity to recruit.
00:26:27.000I've been completely, it was... We had, for the first time ever, we had a girl on my team besides me, but for the most part, I've always been the only girl.
00:27:15.000Why do you think that as a rule, when we're creating women's divisions and men's divisions in wrestling, for example NCAA championships and certainly international wrestling, why do women not wrestle men?
00:27:28.000If you do the word play here, why do women not wrestle men?
00:29:02.000These are people who have been on my program.
00:29:04.000Kayla Harrison, two-time Olympic gold medalist in judo.
00:29:08.000And on the program, I say this because would we both agree that the only American to ever win a gold medal in judo, and she won two, probably qualified to discuss.
00:29:15.000She said it wouldn't even be close with men.
00:29:21.000Because I do agree, I said in the beginning, there is a biological difference between male and female, between muscle mass.
00:29:26.000Not just muscle mass, bone density, fast twitch muscle fibers, reflexes.
00:29:31.000So we would agree there's a reason that it's separate.
00:29:32.000But when you said it to me in the beginning, I thought you meant in general and I said I can't say that because in high school I've only wrestled male, I don't have the...
00:30:53.000We can argue that there is a biological difference, but again, you're also talking about people have guns, they have a less technological advancement.
00:31:00.000Today's military, technologically, is off the charts.
00:31:03.000Like, it is crazy how much money we put into the military every single day, technologically advancing ourselves.
00:31:20.000For the same reason I support women being able to carry firearms, and I actually support them carrying firearms because it's the only way to be stronger than a man.
00:31:51.000Because I'm saying between men and women, I'm saying in the police force in general, like, I don't remember the exact, like, number, so I can't really quote on this, but I know for a fact that there is not enough training on de-escalation.
00:32:05.000Like, they barely do any training on it at all.
00:32:08.000I agree with the statement that women are... I agree that they should train that robustly.
00:32:12.000Okay, I agree that you're saying, like, men and women, like, women are physically smaller, we are biologically different, but I'm saying, in general, you can't put the whole argument on just women rather than putting it on a structural problem.
00:32:25.000Right, and I believe the structural problem is because of the matriarchy and the problem with feminism trying to lower standards to accommodate women.
00:32:30.000But can't you say it's also sexism because it's the idea that, like, I was saying before, like, you were talking about in the military how a lot of it is, um, there's a lot of things given to women and it's, like, men should be, um, we're talking about, like, for example, mental health, for example, and we were saying that, like, um... Women are more likely to have PTSD, be discharged... But it's also because men aren't treated as seriously for it because it's, like, That could be true.
00:32:51.000It's an inference, but I think your inference might be correct.
00:33:02.000I think it's probably a little of column A, a little of column B. I think we have quite a lot of data that shows that men tend to perform better under high compression stress scenarios than women in general.
00:33:11.000There are always exceptions to the rule.
00:33:13.000And it tends to be more traumatic for women.
00:33:15.000And then especially when you combine being on the receiving end of a traumatic injury in the military Same thing in the police force.
00:33:26.000So you have some understanding of, I would say, controlling or subduing the human body, right?
00:33:30.000That's what all grappling arts are, whether it's Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, wrestling, Judo.
00:33:34.000I do believe that should be trained in the police force so that you don't have to use a weapon.
00:33:38.000I think that we need higher standards, as a matter of fact.
00:33:39.000I think every member of the police should have basic grappling capabilities so that they don't have to, for example, grab their gun or grab their taser.
00:33:58.000You can't de-escalate with a large, strong, likely inebriated man who doesn't want to go back to prison if he sees a small, weak woman trying to de-escalate.
00:34:07.000He knows that he has a trump card and he can attack you.
00:34:47.000And they teach us about, like, different things about the human, like, behavior and things like that.
00:34:51.000I feel like, the way I think about it is I feel like cops should be taught that because they should be taught how to behave and be, like, not behave, but you know, how to, like... Oh, I agree with what you're saying.
00:35:18.000And if you're not physically up to the task, and the women in our police force, the vast majority are not, not all of them, but the vast majority are not, that's a problem.
00:35:25.000If I can, let me give you, this is, we've talked about the empirical and anecdotal story.
00:35:37.000There's the Olympic team, and like, and then everyone else, there aren't very, it doesn't happen in high school.
00:35:43.000But now I'm a new father, and I've also coached kids.
00:35:48.000You have a lot of moms, for example, who when they have sons, they will tell them, if they're dealing with a bully, and I had this, they say, you walk up to him and you tell him that he better stop.
00:37:38.000I feel like over time, he was giving the example, it wasn't me, he was saying like, police officer gets trained at a job, freshly trained, whatever, physically built, whatever.
00:37:47.000Years go by, he gets fat, he gets slow, you know, he doesn't get retrained.
00:37:50.000The training basically just leaves his head.
00:37:53.000I feel like, if you're talking about like that, it's...
00:38:10.000Would you agree with me, and I've talked about this on the show, that not only should officers have to display not only physical capabilities as far as strength, endurance, being fit, they also should have to display physical capabilities, for example, in grappling.
00:38:21.000I think she should also have mental physical capabilities.
00:38:54.000But I'm saying, you're saying women shouldn't do it at all, but I'm saying if there is a higher exam, if it's the same as men, and if women pass it, are you saying... If we hold them to the highest standard possible, and the women, you know, probably 1-2% of women who apply pass, and afterwards we would look at the real world data and they're just as effective in the police force or military, I would have no problem with it.
00:39:52.000Hopefully you don't run into a bunch of Dagestanis or Eastern Bloc people because boy, they are monsters on the mats.
00:39:57.000They grow up wrestling bears from when they're three years old.
00:39:59.000But yeah, I have quite a few friends who have gone to international competitions, more so Greco-Roman because that's more practiced internationally.
00:40:12.000A little bit of disagreement, though I wouldn't say contentious, and I always appreciate someone willing to step out of their comfort zone.
00:40:17.000Hopefully some positions might be reconsidered after the conversation.
00:40:20.000Now, our next guest was really a bright spot in the day because she brought something completely new to this installment.
00:40:49.000Uh, my position, and sometimes you can't fit it all on the sign, I do not believe that women, uh, biological women should be in roles of physical combat, enlisted forces, a police force where they would encounter physical violence, uh, simply because they're more likely to be the victim of violence, uh, they're less safe, and so are their brothers in arms, uh, and that people are sworn to protect.
00:41:10.000And legislatively, we have been systematically lowering the barrier to entry and physical and mental requirements in order to accommodate women in these enlisted forces.
00:41:19.000I think that's a horrible course to be on.
00:41:23.000If you disagree with me, I'm more than glad to hear you change my mind.
00:41:26.000I mean, I'm more here to just learn about the other side.
00:41:28.000I mean, serving our country takes a lot of heart to even begin to think about.
00:42:30.000We're not accomplishing that by lowering the physical standards and the requirements to a point of, frankly, becoming a national embarrassment in order to accommodate women.
00:44:18.000If you haven't thought about it, then maybe you don't have your point of view established, and that's okay.
00:44:22.000Well, that's part of why I'm here, is to see how that stands up against something else that I'm not familiar with.
00:44:28.000Well, I mean... Can I ask you something?
00:44:30.000Why do you think you're unfamiliar with my stance?
00:44:31.000Because it's shared by at least half the country.
00:44:35.000Well, I've not really taken a lot of consideration myself in being in the forces, and so I haven't really looked personally.
00:44:41.000I bet that could look good for me or someone like me.
00:44:45.000And I know women who have served and fought and men who have served and fought, so my general consensus is that they served, you know?
00:44:52.000So to me, it's really not that much about it.
00:44:56.000I guess for me it would depend person to person and that would, I guess, it would really create a lot of problems and I do see that with individualizing someone who's serving so much based on all these different things.
00:45:13.000Like I know I'm inqualifiable because I'm tiny.
00:45:16.000You could shoot a bazooka and I'd go flying, you know?
00:45:18.000If you shot a bazooka at me, I'd go flying.
00:45:20.000That's kind of the purpose of a bazooka.
00:45:22.000I don't think any of us would survive a... Oh, you mean if you fired it and I kicked it?
00:45:27.000But I do believe that with such a difficult task of serving your country in any sense, I mean, it could be taxing even if you're not in a combatant role.
00:45:55.000I can see, to me, I think it should really be, um... I guess, gosh... It's cool to be on the spot like this because now I really get to, like, think about it.
00:46:24.000There are a lot of different people who can't fight for a lot of different reasons.
00:46:28.000But I think instead of, at least for me personally, instead of worrying about the kind of people we put in, we can focus on how we can make them the best, even if that might mean We're not barring them on a personal level, though.
00:46:44.000We know you're interested in this, but this might be a better fit.
00:46:46.000And that doesn't necessarily mean that we can bar them in a combatant sense.
00:48:44.000You know, I think that when we're dealing with people complaining about, in some cases, very justified police brutality, And the same reason I support women carrying firearms.
00:48:53.000Because a firearm makes a woman, like you just said, you're small.
00:48:57.000You're as strong as a man if you know how to operate a firearm.
00:48:59.000I believe I'm as strong as a man in a different capacity.
00:49:02.000No, I'm talking about in a physical altercation.
00:49:04.000There's no way that a man will not overpower you, for example.
00:49:12.000In other words, you can use your firearm.
00:49:14.000If a woman is physically less capable, as a cop, she has to use her firearm.
00:49:21.000That will increase the likelihood of police brutality, let alone, of course, the incidents of violent attacks against women in the police force and their brothers in arms, and it's much higher.
00:49:29.000So for the same reason that I like women civilians to be able to carry firearms, the flip side of that coin is I want female police officers to not have to use their firearms.
00:49:38.000Unfortunately, it's a biological reality that they do.
00:49:40.000If they're dealing with a guy my size on PCP, you're going to need to use a gun.
00:49:44.000And I don't want to see women getting killed and getting beaten up out there.
00:50:34.000Now, I don't want to speak out of turn.
00:50:35.000I think that might have been a change my mind first, in that Jay didn't really seem to have any opinions, at least strong opinions, one way or the other, but was willing to sit down, and I appreciate her willingness to do so, which, by the way, is why we always make all of the references available at loudearthcrider.com.
00:50:53.000You can click the link in the description to peruse at will and learn more on this topic.
00:50:57.000Also, if you enjoy this series and want them to continue, please consider commenting below which topic you'd like to see next on Change My Mind.
00:51:04.000And hit that like button so that YouTube can throttle this anyway.
00:51:21.000You remember faces but the name, like, I have to... So in my mind I'll go Anihilator, so that then I'll remember your name, but I might accidentally say Anihilator.
00:52:39.000So today, let me kind of state my position.
00:52:43.000I do not believe that women should be in combat roles, meaning roles where they would encounter physical violence, enlisted forces, infantry, or in the police force where they would have to be subduing violent perpetrators.
00:52:56.000Because it not only is less safe for them, it's less safe for their brothers in arms, and it's less safe for us as a country, the citizens they're sworn to protect.
00:53:04.000I specifically say women because I support a physical meritocracy, but we have only lowered
00:53:09.000the standards to allow more women into the military and police force.
00:53:14.000So that's why I have a problem specifically with women in combat roles who can meet lower
00:53:18.000physical requirements and still get the same job.
00:53:21.000If you disagree with that or you think I missed something, I'd love to hear you.
00:53:54.000I don't think that I think it's an impediment of the troops together as a whole because you think of them as Our military is as one that they don't see.
00:54:05.000You're white or you're a woman or a man when it comes down to combat I Well, one thing that my grandfather has told me when he was in combat was, he's like, I didn't care who it was.
00:55:16.000We've now moved to the plank because women were not passive.
00:55:20.000If we're talking about them all as one, my issue is that it's not blind.
00:55:25.000It is creating a separate, lower standard for women to join the same combat roles.
00:55:31.000How does that make those out there in the front lines safer?
00:55:34.000To have someone who's less qualified, less capable, but because they're a woman they get the same spot.
00:55:39.000Well, I mean, I think it also kind of depends on, like, when you come in.
00:55:44.000Like, there's, you have to think about it, like, A, there's a lot of high schools that go straight into the military because that's their one option, or that's the option that they choose.
00:55:51.000So, just as any corporate job would be, like, you have your entry level, No, she absolutely didn't.
00:56:20.000I won't have to ask her, but I don't think so.
00:56:22.000Let's assume that what I'm saying is not untrue.
00:56:24.000Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that, for example, women can meet a much lower physical requirement, and not only physical, but certain mental requirements, reflex requirements, that women can achieve a far lower score, or they even have to meet far lower physical standards.
00:56:41.000I'm telling you, I'm giving you my word, it is the case with the Marines, it is the case with the Army, it is the case with municipal police forces.
00:57:20.000Now, to put, say, because there are some women who can do 25 push-ups, burpees, and all these types of things, and complete the whole nine yards.
00:57:29.000Very, very few, that's why we lowered the standards for them.
00:58:02.000But as far as the whole thing of like mental stability and all this type of stuff, I think that's attacking women as just a gender's character.
00:58:40.000The fact that they can't get pregnant because, like, they can also get injured.
00:58:44.000So, I'm like, for certain things, like... Well, it's interesting that you bring that up because women, the bone fracture rate, far, far higher for women when they're out there in the field.
00:58:52.000Their disability discharge rate is up in the 60-something percent higher than men.
00:58:57.000And I think the percentage of men from the military discharge who get PTSD, it's in the single digits.
00:59:05.000But also it's kind of the fact of not just the combat issue, but it's also the fact of other men in the military taking a stance against that woman.
00:59:32.000I'm saying in wartime, you need to be a beast.
00:59:35.000I get it, but I'm just saying, like, I don't think that's a correct way to describe or build a conversation of, well, this is a... War is war.
00:59:45.000War is a mental game, physiological game of combat strategies, all that.
00:59:51.000So you have to be smart, you have to think quick, and I get it, yes, there's a physical factor.
01:00:07.000So very few women who can, but a lot of men can.
01:00:10.000What statistic or what percentage of women who cannot handle the military?
01:00:15.000We have such little data on, for example, the standards in the Army where you had to do a certain amount of pull-ups, a certain amount of push-ups, a certain amount of sit-ups.
01:00:22.000You had to do your run, depending on the year, how many miles.
01:00:35.000But it's a really small sample pool because to get women in combat roles, it only started when they immediately lowered the PT requirements.
01:00:42.000So we lowered them to the point where, okay, no more push-ups.
01:00:45.000For example, in the Army, no more pull-ups at all.
01:00:52.000In the Marines, women can do half as many pull-ups, achieve a perfect score.
01:00:55.000And then what happened is a lot of women were complaining because they felt singled out.
01:00:59.000Because they had a standard for men and they had a standard for women, women were still failing.
01:01:02.000So they created a gender-neutral test that was the same test for men and women, kind of between the two standards, which I disagree with.
01:01:08.000I think it should be the higher standard.
01:01:10.000Less than 10% of men failed, 65% of women failed.
01:01:15.000So 55-65% failed a gender neutral test designed to accommodate women.
01:01:19.000There is no way to lower the standards anymore and still have women in physical combat roles.
01:01:25.000We've lowered the standards of physical combat readiness to a degree that frankly is embarrassing to accommodate women and they still, the majority of them still fail.
01:01:33.000And assuming that I'm not lying, Right?
01:01:36.000And I would encourage you to go do the research on the PT requirements.
01:03:03.000And the guy next door is more likely to be hurt.
01:03:05.000I don't think, this is my thing, I don't think that it should be someone else.
01:03:09.000Now if the government makes a ruling saying whatever, that's fine.
01:03:13.000But I don't think as people in a society where our police force or our military is being questioned, rather they're men or women, I think that you should stand by that person.
01:03:25.000Be like, if a woman in the military or the police force is there and you see something going on, okay, that's their job, for one.
01:03:37.000So it's not, I don't think that it's your, you have the right to think whatever you want, but I don't think you should be able to really question, rather that person's doing their job capable, when you haven't put yourself on that line or have not That doesn't matter.
01:03:56.000Objectively, they're not as qualified.
01:03:58.000That's not me calling their character into question.
01:05:40.000And a big part of that is because criminals know, unfortunately, they can overpower women because male criminals are often stronger than women.
01:05:47.000Especially when you add to the component illegal stimulants.
01:08:44.000And I think we agree, I just want the policy to reflect that.
01:08:47.000We should have standards that are difficult, right, that are certainly high if we're talking about people in physical roles that require physically extraordinary capabilities, whether you're a man or a woman.
01:09:06.000Right now we are doing the opposite of that as a matter of policy.
01:09:10.000And that leads to, unfortunately, women in compromised situations and victims of violence.
01:09:15.000So, I guess my question is, in this argument, because I've heard, not just you, and I'm not, what I'm trying, I'm not trying to just base your argument off other arguments that I've heard from other people.
01:09:26.000But, when I hear some of these other arguments, it's, well, it's in the betterment of women, or in a kind of a sexist role of women shouldn't No, I don't feel they do.
01:10:24.000But besides the point of those statistics, is it just the biological Just the biological anatomy of women that you believe that should not be in combat.
01:10:37.000Rather it's, like you said, the bone density.
01:10:42.000Strength, bone density, endurance, anaerobic capacity, ability to perform reflexively under stress.
01:10:48.000Any physical metric that you can use to apply to the most effective fighting force.
01:10:52.000The vast majority of women fail miserably in comparison to men.
01:10:55.000And what does that compare to other countries?
01:10:59.000I haven't looked up all of the other countries, but if you believe that, for example, a Lithuanian woman is much stronger than an American woman and the men are weaker and that differential is closed, I just, I would be very hard-pressed to believe it.
01:11:11.000No, because I'm saying, like, you have the statistics for our military.
01:11:15.000Have you done your research on our military versus other military, either women or men?
01:11:22.000Well, it's a very large sample size, so why would that change anything?
01:11:24.000And as it relates to our military, I think the stats are enough.
01:11:55.000They either have a lower standard for women, or they've created a gender-neutral test so women can pass, and I would be willing to bet my life that far fewer women pass than men on standards of physical rigor across the world.
01:12:05.000Well, maybe you should do your research and compare it to the United States.
01:12:07.000That's my only thing is, like, when people give these statistics... Well, because I'm dealing with American policy.
01:12:11.000I know, but I'm... And we agree on the American policy being silly.
01:12:55.000The policy right now is lower standards for women because the government believes that women are so incapable, they need to have such low physical standards applied.
01:13:03.000So if you disagree with that, then I think it is up to us.
01:13:05.000I mean, like, yes, but is it up to enforce it?
01:14:11.000It's there's a lot of things that just not this one subject that needs to be talked about.
01:14:16.000I think there I think I believe that there's more important things than can women be in combat that we need to focus on like schooling like let's make sure like kids have meals let's make sure that kids are all getting the same education before we start talking about other things.
01:14:33.000Well, I've done many of these, and we have done them on school choice, for example.
01:14:35.000I'm a huge supporter of school choice and school vouchers.
01:14:46.000But I'm just saying, like, I just believe, like, I believe, like, the way that it's phrased, I think it could be phrased better, but I mean, it is what it is.
01:15:56.000To be clear, I am not saying that women should not be in the military, or in the police force.
01:16:01.000I don't want them to be in a situation where they will encounter Physical violence if they're not physically capable.
01:16:06.000Women can be detectives, they can be interrogators, they can be negotiators, they can do fantastic work with intel, they can be operating drones, they can be pilots.
01:16:13.000I'm just talking about roles that have physical standards, or did, for a reason.
01:16:18.000So do you think the same way when it comes to operating like a gun or any type of...
01:16:33.000If a man is attempting to rape a woman, sexually assault or overpower a woman, her best chance is to carry a firearm.
01:16:39.000The flip side of that is why I want female police officers to have to meet the same standards as men, because if they're not physically capable, they have to go to their gun.
01:16:57.000Police officers need to be ultra-physically capable so that they don't have to use their guns, so that they can de-escalate, so we have less police brutality.
01:17:04.000I want fewer police having to use their firearms or use their taser as possible.
01:17:08.000But in the same case of when you say that Yes, like when you say police brutality, I see, as a black person, I see more men grabbing, white police officer men, grabbing their guns when it's in defense of a black person, whether it's a woman or a man.
01:17:26.000Yeah, that's a topic for another day, but statistically, yeah, it's actually, when you're talking about armed white men, they're actually more likely to be shot by officers than black men.
01:18:08.000I would hope that their training has been enough to where they are capable, if I am getting attacked, that they can help me.
01:18:15.000Fight off an attacker or whatever, but as far as that, I think right now, until the policies change, until we, like you said, everyone votes and makes their decision on where they stand.
01:18:58.000I don't know how much she's going to be able to help me and that's based on a reality and I think that that is horrible because women will forever be held in doubt because of the diversity hire and the double standard.
01:19:08.000For the same reason that affirmative action in college is a problem, because unfortunately people will go, does that person deserve to be here?
01:19:14.000Or is it an affirmative action result?
01:19:15.000And I think that that's the bigotry of low expectations.
01:19:20.000And yeah, unfortunately it harms women and unfortunately in a lot of these situations they harm people of color.
01:19:25.000And I think that the tests need to be blind.
01:19:54.000So, see, it's always hard to have a discussion when the opposing point of view insists that your research is simply made up, and it's why it's always valuable to have the references and make them available, which, by the way, you can go see for yourselves at loudmouthcrider.com.
01:20:06.000Also, ladies, small bit of advice, take it or leave it, when your loving father suggests that you do something, like research your ACDC sweater, not a bad idea to listen to him.
01:20:16.000Dads tend to know best, especially when it comes to music from their era.
01:20:20.000Okay, let's bring this tugboat to shore and see if we can finish this on a high note.
01:20:24.000Oh yeah, we have two lovely ladies here, Jewel and Caitlin.
01:20:28.000I don't know how familiar you are at all with what we do with these segments.
01:20:31.000It's hopefully a way where people can kind of rationalize their positions on sometimes controversial topics.
01:20:37.000Yeah, I don't believe that women Should be in combat roles and like you mentioned police officer roles if it's a role that includes violence or the possibility of being physically overpowered or enlisted forces roles.
01:20:49.000Because of the fact that it makes not only women unsafe who are in the line of fire but also their brothers in arms less safe.
01:20:58.000I think there are a multitude of ways that women can serve in the military and in the police force, but those that require extraordinary physical capabilities are not amongst them.
01:21:07.000And if you disagree with that, I'd be more than happy to hear why and change my mind.
01:21:12.000Well, I'm not really the type of person to be like, what you think is wrong and what I think is right.
01:21:16.000I'm open to hearing other people's perspectives on things.
01:21:20.000I'm not really like, No, you think, we don't think the same, you're wrong, you know?
01:21:24.000So, what I'm like hearing from you is like, I'm not necessarily hearing like women are better, or women, men are better and women aren't, it's just like the physical attributes of what's different.
01:21:37.000So, um, okay, you saying by like, they shouldn't be in physical roles, how do you think like that, do you think like, I don't know what I'm trying to say.
01:21:48.000Do you think that women can, um, I don't know, work up to being physically capable?
01:22:03.000And that's the reason for this topic is, you know, we've created different tests since the 70s, you know, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, where we've reduced the physical requirements to try and accommodate women.
01:22:14.000And they still fail at a rate that's significantly higher than men, several multiples higher than men.
01:22:18.000I mean, they even just created a gender neutral test in the army that they now have to scrap
01:22:22.000because less than 10% of men were failing, but 65% of women were failing.
01:22:26.000And these are tests that no longer include pull-ups, push-ups.
01:22:28.000And if you look at the results, once they get out into the field of battle, women get
01:22:33.000hurt a lot more and members of their squad get hurt a lot more.
01:22:36.000I mean, they suffer bone fracture rates at several times, you know, multiple rate.
01:22:41.000They get disability discharges, 65% more than men.
01:22:45.000In the police force, they're far more likely in their whole squad to be violently attacked if there's a woman there, and in large part it's because this is a role that requires physical capabilities.
01:22:54.000So if we're saying, if women could meet those standards, yeah, my position, I would agree with you if it's, we raise it to the highest standards that we've had, keep those, and women who can meet those, sure.
01:24:28.000I have a problem with putting women, and we are doing this, in combat roles where not only they are more likely to be hurt, but their brothers in arms are more likely to be hurt as a result of someone who's unqualified being put on the force.
01:24:40.000So I'm not saying they should be at home cooking or cleaning.
01:24:42.000There are many, many ways that women can serve in the military and the police force.
01:24:48.000So, like, is this topic coming from you from a place of, I think men are better and women are less inferior, or where is it coming from where you stand?
01:25:16.000But we've done that topic as well, and we've had people say that I'm transphobic for suggesting that.
01:25:21.000And I think that there are rules in which, you know, women serve valuably, and they have in the military, and in the police force.
01:25:28.000But I think this idea that everyone has to be equal on all fronts is, I really think it's harmful.
01:25:33.000I honestly agree because like like recently like with the whole like like the gender topic and everything like there's been a lot of topic of some like feminist women like um being like like we scientifically don't necessarily need men anymore for what they add to like creating children and everything like that like it can genetically create like children for women and put them in their bellies and everything in a lab you know but then if you think about it and you look at the the bigger picture like Like...
01:26:05.000In the trades field, most of the trades workers are men.
01:26:53.000I just feel like God made a man and a woman for one reason, you know?
01:26:58.000Men are supposed to do this, women are meant to do this, and I do agree that men are more physically capable at the end of the day.
01:27:06.000What do you think about, sounds like we found quite a bit of common ground, most people aren't aware, but what do you think about the fact that we've continually lowered physical requirements for the military
01:27:49.000I think that, like, changing the whole, like, requirements and everything like that, like, it's given people the mindset of, like, Like, I can do this now because, like, it's changed.
01:28:02.000When, I feel like if they would've just left it alone and they would've left it at the same, like, you have to do this A, B, or C, or you can't get in, you know?
01:28:10.000Like, if they would've just left it at that, like, like, there are some bad, badass women that could've done it, and they could've gone in, you know?
01:28:16.000Like, I'm not saying, like, it's a large percentage or a small percentage or anything, but I am saying there are some women that could do it, and then that would just make it even more rewarding.
01:28:24.000I feel like everybody gets the same opportunity nowadays when Necessarily, they don't deserve that.
01:28:40.000And I don't think it's fair that... You know what, I would correct you and say, it's not that it's not fair, it's that it's not right.
01:28:46.000Because people do this because they say it's fair, but when we go into that, a lot of people don't know this, for example, in the Marines, a woman can do half as many pull-ups as a man and get a perfect score.
01:29:07.000In the Marines, they don't have a gender neutral test.
01:29:09.000In the Marines, a man has to do twice as many pull-ups to get a perfect score.
01:29:13.000So a woman can do half and get a perfect score.
01:29:16.000But they're out there on the same battlefield, fighting the same enemy.
01:29:19.000And I know that I've been accused, and I will continue to be accused of sexism in maintaining my position, but I just don't want to see a woman who can't do pull-ups out there get her head caved in, you know, because she's not qualified to be there.
01:29:41.000Women are far more likely actually to experience like PTSD, be discharged for that, and that's not to say that women are mentally weaker, it's to say that women are mentally, I would argue, more adept at other situations that men wouldn't handle very well.
01:29:54.000Going out there with a gun and fighting terrorists where you're not able to shower and you're not eating for days is one of those where test after test shows that men perform better.
01:30:04.000But not when it comes to making sure that, as you mentioned, children are taken care of.
01:30:57.000More emotionally in touch with... People who are sensitive.
01:31:01.000Yeah, like more emotionally in touch with like... Who would have expected that at a women's university?
01:31:06.000They're just a lot more... I don't know, I guess just like...
01:31:11.000I'm more emotionally involved with these kind of things, like, oh that's it, they're going to tell you that you're sexist, and they're going to, they're like, oh, you know, people come here, like, women can do anything, you know?
01:31:20.000Like, yeah, sure, women can do anything, but that doesn't mean that we're not genetically made to not be violent.
01:31:29.000I don't know why that's, men can't give birth, and statistically, women can't do pull-ups.
01:31:33.000Yeah, I mean, there's just so many things that a man is made for versus a woman, and people here don't see the difference in that, like people in here, a lot.
01:31:41.000It's just because of the generation we're growing up in and the generation we're becoming.
01:31:45.000So you say that your position might be less than popular on a campus like this?
01:31:50.000Let me ask you this, because women, for the same reason, they're more agreeable, right?
01:33:28.000I'm a very confrontational person, and if someone were to come to me and say... And tell me my opinion's wrong, I'd be like, well... A man can get pregnant, like... Absolutely, no.
01:33:37.000Or like, I can turn into a guy if I want to.
01:33:40.000Like, I just don't think that that is physically...
01:33:44.000All I ask is that you have those conversations here on campus, because unfortunately, you know, women... I say this, there's no group of people, maybe black Americans, who are more overly represented in the media, but whose voice is actually completely unrepresented, than women.
01:33:59.000Everyone sees women, they assume, right, that when they talk about women voting, it's pro-Roe v. Wade, pro-LGBTQ in women's sports, you know, pro-progressivism as opposed to any type of traditional gender roles.
01:34:11.000And that doesn't mean that they're fixed, but meaning that recognizing the differences between men and women, it's assumed that women are a monolith.
01:34:18.000And unfortunately, I think a big part of it is because women like you are nice, which is, you'd still be nice, but don't be afraid to speak out.
01:34:48.000So Brownwood is an hour away and the campus and the campus life and the community, completely different.
01:34:56.000If you were to have this same conversation there, you would get completely different answers and it would honestly be less controversial there.
01:35:04.000But the majority of students are Male students that are white.
01:35:10.000I would say though, having done this, that's actually never been the case because even if, let's say, the student body is more varied in their points of view, it ends up being a few people who dominate the conversation on any campus.
01:35:19.000Oh yeah, because they're the ones that want the conversation that have a different view.