On today's show, host Andrew Yang is joined by conservative commentator Amala Ekpenobi, host of the new show, Unapologetic, and journalist Louis Brackpool of Rebel News UK. They discuss what it means to be a conservative in the 21st century, and why it's important to have a conservative perspective.
00:02:39.620Secondly, I used to be a former leftist, and I think about that time and reflect on it a lot.
00:02:46.180And I think a lot about how I was influenced and who broke through to me to make me realize that maybe I'm on the wrong side of history here.
00:02:53.760And a lot of it had to do with compassionate conservatives who were willing to go through the issues and talk about their perspective, talk about the progressive perspective, and really state their understanding as to why somebody might be progressive on these issues.
00:03:07.180But work their way over to that conservative side and sort of explain why it's a little bit more logical and maybe a little bit more fulfilling to be on that end of things.
00:03:16.880And certainly, I think looking at the younger generation right now, both in the U.S. and Canada and worldwide, we need younger people talking about these things because that's who's truly getting captured by the progressive left in all of this.
00:03:30.140Something I've noticed, especially with yourself, Will Witt, people like John Doyle, and something I've been trying to do is not self-censor myself.
00:03:37.920And I feel like a lot of people, let's say, in our sphere of politics have been trying to do their best to be completely honest, unapologetic, you might even say, and just, you know, really – sorry about that – and really just put the point across and not have to self-censor ourselves.
00:03:54.520Is that something you're going for? Because I know you're getting a lot of backlash from maybe the right places, but we'll get into that in a bit.
00:04:00.740But is that something you're trying to tell yourself with your show is to not, you know, cut any corners or self-censor yourself?
00:04:06.240Oh, absolutely. I think honesty is truly the best policy in standing by your values.
00:04:11.480Of course, if somebody brings an argument or some evidence that proves me wrong, I also don't want to self-censor in that way.
00:04:18.200I want to admit, hey, I don't know what we're talking about right now, or I'm not as well-versed in this topic yet, let me do some research, or, you know, I was wrong about something that I said prior.
00:04:28.240And people are not doing that anymore.
00:04:31.200It's become abundantly clear that everybody is just comfortable coming at all of these topics as confidently as possible and acting like they're an expert on any given topic on any given day.
00:04:40.780And I don't want to be that type of person. I really just want to be honest with myself, honest with the people who are watching.
00:04:48.360And I think honest conversations like that and true dialogue is going to be what breaks through much of the polarity and divisiveness that we're experiencing right now.
00:04:57.980Lewis, as a notoriously polite person, do you think it's time to finally, you know, start to not pull any punches?
00:05:05.280Let's not say we're not Donald Trump, where we just want to call, I would never say he's short and fat.
00:05:10.780I would never say something like that, as Trump said about Kim Jong-un.
00:05:13.820But is it time to start being, I don't want to say unapologetic again, is it time to start, you know, stop with the self-censoring, say exactly what you mean.
00:05:24.900And if people have a problem with it, then they can watch something else or they can bring up an argument that actually refutes what you're saying.
00:05:30.620I think Amala touched on something that's extremely important.
00:05:36.280And what that is, is how you need to be able to say, give your honesty.
00:05:43.700But on top of that, if you do get something wrong, you own it and you reflect on it and then you grow from it.
00:05:51.160So, yeah, I think you should be unapologetic about what you say.
00:05:57.600And I think that you should spearhead your conversation in a way that's going to enlighten people.
00:06:03.380But if you shouldn't be scared, however, to get things wrong.
00:06:09.100I mean, I think that's what discredits a lot of people.
00:06:12.060I've seen a lot of commentators online, especially a lot younger commentators who decide to go on this venture and all of a sudden, if they're proved wrong, they have some kind of almost meltdown about it and they can't own up to their own discrepancy.
00:06:30.460So, yeah, I think Amala hit the nail on the head when she said, you know, it's OK to be wrong almost and, you know, it's OK to sort of own that.
00:06:40.520And I think that's what separates people nowadays from, say, a good reporter, a good journalist or a good commentator from the others.
00:06:48.220You two, in particular, I think, get a lot of backlash from whichever woke leftist crowd you want to call it.
00:06:56.540Lewis, I want to get to you in a second, because I think yours has to do with you being one of the spearheading voices in your country.
00:07:02.880And there's not a lot of other people who are brave enough to say the stuff you're saying.
00:07:07.300But Amala, there was something that you posted, I think, on TikTok.
00:07:11.000You want to tell people what that was first and foremost?
00:07:14.400Sure. So I'll make a long story very short.
00:07:16.900I found a very prominent TikToker on the platform by the name of Dylan Mulvaney, who's happened to become very famous.
00:07:22.9402.4 million followers all by making day in the life content about being a trans woman.
00:07:29.040Is that the guy from his car who says day whatever is a woman?
00:07:33.400Yeah. So Dave's 40 of being a girl, these things like that.
00:07:36.940And even goes as far as to say, you know, I'm not going to identify as a woman because a woman is a strong term and implies maturity.
00:07:47.220I saw how many views and how many likes that they were getting, looking through the comments of just these really mostly young women supporting this and saying this is such a great ideology to uphold.
00:07:59.620You know, the typical leftist talking points.
00:08:01.400And I thought, OK, somebody should make a video about this.
00:08:03.600So I went through it and was reacting to the TikToks on my podcast, even saw one where Tampax, we all know what that company is used for, has offered Dylan a sponsorship.
00:08:25.780So I took a very respectful approach, even decided to use Dylan's proper, you know, use the pronouns that Dylan chose in my podcast.
00:08:33.780It's to just talk to leftists and have this compassionate plea for why this is not the best route in leading your life.
00:08:41.440And it's certainly not something that we should be teaching to children as something that's normal or going to garner you success in your life.
00:08:48.000And, of course, Dylan caught on to this podcast, says that he did not watch it, but I would imagine he did, and made a whole video about it.
00:08:55.900And this video has millions of views now, and the left just immediately pounced on me.
00:09:03.980I was getting told how much of a transphobe I was, that I should kill myself.
00:09:09.100And, you know, just the typical cycle of a conservative being called out, and then the leftists jump on them and call them all the phobics in the east.
00:09:18.560So that's where we're at right now with that.
00:09:23.260Why do you think they respond this way, though?
00:09:26.120Whomever the people may align with or where they fall, why do you think the response is, instead of trying to prove you wrong or thinking about it or anything, why is the response, die, amala, die?
00:09:38.460Because whenever I see Brian Stelter say something stupid that I disagree with, I don't go and message him and email him.
00:09:44.480What do you think is the actual motivation behind that?
00:09:46.660Well, when I was a leftist, I found that it is very hard to make logical arguments for the things that you're saying.
00:09:54.140So when somebody comes to the table with a logical, reasonable argument for why they believe what they believe and you have nothing to counter that, it does make you angry.
00:10:04.740And that defensiveness just comes out because you don't want to give up that ideology, something that you've subscribed to maybe your whole life or for the past few years and something that you believe to be true.
00:10:16.140And suddenly you're hearing somebody who is a biological woman telling you, no, wait a minute, you don't just get to claim womanhood.
00:10:24.100And when you don't have an argument to actually fight back, it makes you very angry.
00:10:28.860So I completely understand why people respond the way that they do.
00:10:32.320Maybe they should reevaluate because it's not such a fun experience to go through.
00:11:07.600I mean, as you know, I think I get a lot of hate for talking about various different subjects, similar to Amala's as well, with the trans debate, of course, illegal immigration, the COVID stuff.
00:11:48.940There are many prominent commentators that have received so much of this horrible dialogue from random people online, coincidentally hiding behind anonymous accounts, which, you know, it says a lot about people who decide to hurl abuse from, you know, someone with a cat as like a profile picture, you know.
00:12:16.500But listen, I try to, you know, just think it's water off the duck's back.
00:12:22.920You know, you just you have to try and just get on with it.
00:12:25.360And in a way, I take it in a strange stride because, like Amala said, these these people can't formulate arguments that well.
00:12:34.840So their only way of trying to argue with someone is to try and attack them so they feel uncomfortable.
00:12:42.640They're trying to get you to feel uncomfortable in your own skin.
00:12:46.500So for them to message you these horrible, horrible things, if you admit defeat and if you if you start to feel almost just to cave into this defeat, you will lose.
00:14:14.640I even want as far as to create a whole segment on my show called Devil's Advocate, where I bring on prominent conservatives and I debate them as a leftist because I know the talking points.
00:14:24.660Because every time I reach out to somebody, it's either no response or no, we're not interested.
00:14:28.960And I've even on the show said, Dylan, if you want to come on this trans TikToker, I would love to have you on.
00:14:53.560I'm like, you are anyways, we are now knee deep in Twitter.
00:14:59.260I don't know, 2.0, we can call it the whole new Twitter is people's accounts that are banned are just popping up out of nowhere.
00:15:05.380And it's really weird to me seeing the people in mainstream media and other places basically reject free speech as it is written in the U.S. Constitution.
00:15:14.920Elon Musk saying that he basically wants it to follow the law and people have a problem with that.
00:15:19.240I think the lady on the view said it was a white supremacist point of view to have this.
00:15:25.560I know on CNN they said it was a party that if there's no rules at a party, is it somewhere where you want to go to?
00:15:32.480Like what party out house party has rule like other than don't destroy the place?
00:15:39.640Where do you think Elon takes this to you guys?
00:15:43.200Do you think we go to a place where it's, you know, you can say racist things, you can say hateful things as long as you're not breaking the law and that's going to be completely allowed?
00:15:56.180Well, in the UK we have a lot of different laws.
00:16:00.840I think we're basically living in a dystopian novel over here.
00:16:04.720So we have a new thing that's being pushed through legislation called the Online Safety Bill.
00:16:10.260And yes, it is as horrible as it sounds, where they basically want to eradicate any kind of discourse, whether it be grotesque discourse, all the way through to just questioning efficacy of the old Vs.
00:16:29.440And, you know, I don't want to get you, you know, censor or anything like that, Andrew.
00:17:00.240So with this new this new Twitter 2.0, if this safety bill goes through.
00:17:06.860I mean, it it doesn't really matter what where we stand over in the UK.
00:17:11.900Look, we don't like horrible, distasteful discourse.
00:17:16.040But being someone who is passionate about free speech and advocates for it, it's like, you know, it's like it's like saying, do you know what?
00:17:25.100I love food, but we should ban all junk food.
00:17:42.620For us in the UK, it's a bit topsy turvy.
00:17:45.680We had non-hate crime incidents for two years where hundreds of thousands of people had police knock on their doors because they might have posted something a bit spicy on Facebook or Twitter.
00:17:58.360So, you know, the law is pretty strange over here and it's continuing to possibly get worse.
00:18:26.560But I think it's a good starting point.
00:18:28.880And I think it's woken a lot of people up to realize that we should be having open discourse, no matter how much you disagree with it.
00:18:38.240Omala, why do you think people are so afraid to have the ability for anyone to say whatever they want?
00:18:43.500You can go outside in America and walk outside and scream something into the void and it's not illegal.
00:18:48.360But why is it such a problem when it's online?
00:18:50.880Is it because it's targeted at people or because it could be, you know, be seen as bullying?
00:18:54.880Why do you think they have this point of view?
00:18:56.800Well, we're in this new worldview now that life is supposed to be cushy and completely devoid of offense and nobody should ever say anything that hurts you in any way or makes you feel uncomfortable.
00:19:06.300And we've really coddled Americans in a lot of ways and made this culture where young people especially are so sensitive to this sort of thing and they are so invested in PC culture.
00:19:20.140So I think that's a problem for the average person who's really fighting back against somebody like Elon Musk owning Twitter.
00:19:26.360As far as the elites are concerned and people like Brian Stelter, they're really concerned with people having freedom of speech.
00:19:33.000I think they know the strongholds that Twitter has specifically on the American mind, on what we see, on what we're aware of, on the narrative that we subject ourselves to.
00:19:41.880And they are not comfortable with now conservatives and even classic liberals being able to enter that space in a way that is dissident from what they've always been saying.
00:19:51.180During COVID for the past two years, Twitter was just an arbiter for the COVID narrative and constantly posting about it, made their own COVID tab for all the news and all the CDC updates and regulations.
00:20:02.300And now they're facing a future where that might not be the case.
00:20:05.860And if you can get one kernel of truth amongst all the lies, people are going to find that.
00:20:10.780I think something that would satisfy the media is if they started making announcements of Alex Jones is coming back in 10 days.
00:20:17.260Donald Trump is coming back in 30 days.
00:21:18.340It would be admitting that your own platform isn't as important as the other one.
00:21:22.100Well, he did make truth social as a response to this whole Twitter thing, at least in part.
00:21:27.420So I think admitting that is admitting that once Twitter is back and you're able to be on it, maybe you let the whole truth social thing go and you you get back on it.
00:21:34.760He was in his presidency putting out tweets like three in the morning and we think he doesn't want to be on Twitter anymore.
00:21:41.220I think he's going to join and he might he might hold out for a little bit, but he'll be back.
00:21:45.540Now he's putting out truths at three in the morning.
00:21:58.820I also have written down Biden that's being reported that he might cancel all debt.
00:22:04.720Now, I mean, I read this student debt that is I read this and I hear what can I do desperately to save myself from getting completely ruined in the the midterms and to bump my approval rating down from the low or from the low 30s up to the mid to high 30s.
00:22:44.820Oh, I for one, I don't think it's going to happen.
00:22:47.040This is just sort of this lie that we roll out every single four years to make people who are in college feel better and go and cast their votes.
00:22:53.720So I don't think it's going to happen.
00:22:55.400We're talking about trillions of dollars here.
00:22:57.560And I think about 45 million Americans who still have student loan debt in this country.
00:23:36.420Now, should we have a discussion about how expensive higher education is?
00:23:40.240Certainly, because you have people going to school paying $50,000 a year to get a gender studies degree, which is virtually useless.
00:23:47.420So that's a discussion we should be having, but we should not be talking canceling debt right now, especially with the rates of inflation we're experiencing.
00:23:57.500I don't know if, Olivia, you can quickly look that up.
00:23:59.940But I think to add $3 trillion of debt onto the national debt immediately, it's going to have terrible consequences.
00:24:09.800All of a sudden, it's like printing $3 trillion, because all of a sudden, people don't have to put that back in the system.
00:24:16.060So all of a sudden, imagine you have a bank account, and you're the government, and all of a sudden, you've put a red $3.4 trillion on that.
00:24:24.160That's going to have real negative consequences.
00:24:26.120And I don't think the people who have student debt actually think about that.
00:24:29.960They really want it to be all about their own struggle.
00:25:03.020If they're going to spend money on nonsense all the time, whether it's, you know, the next level of fighter jet or somebody's campaign, something like that, why can't they just spend a couple trillion dollars to make school free?
00:26:29.860That's just not how the real world works.
00:26:31.560And the fact that this, well, the Biden administration has come out and said, yeah, we're going to propose to, of course, scrap this is absolutely dreadful.
00:26:41.340I mean, you can't just, like you said, you can't just keep adding debt to what you already have.
00:26:46.980That's literally, it's going to devalue.
00:26:48.900It's going to, it's just going to be a total mess.
00:26:51.800Remember, cost of living is up, as it is, everywhere in the West as well.