ANDREW CHAPADOS ｜ Freedom is for Fascists？ with Lincoln Jay
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Summary
In this episode, I speak with Lincoln, a reporter covering the Truckers' Convoy in the midst of the massive federal government crackdown on the convoy and the thousands of protesters surrounding them. He talks about the situation on the ground, the police crackdown, and the people on the other side of the conflict.
Transcript
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Lincoln thanks for joining me I know you've been in a place recently that doesn't have as much
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freedom as Miami is that true yeah I was in uh just got back to Toronto from Ottawa uh late last
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week I was there since the 28th of January covering the truckers convoy as we all know
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that was for so long man how like did you expect to be there for that long
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no I originally packed for two days so I said uh the I was in the intention was two days originally
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and then obviously we realized that the truckers weren't leaving so Ezra told me to stay and three
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weeks later yeah that's what did it seem like they were planning to stay for as long as possible right
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away because there are so many rumors about people taking tires off their trucks and and and just
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parking there for as long as possible was the feeling from the get-go that they weren't going
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to stay or did they sort of escalate when the government escalated do you think yeah they
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like the majority of truckers that we spoke to their intention was to stay for sure it was just
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hard to gauge on the ground we kept on thinking that truckers were leaving we were seeing trucks
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move to different spots with what's made us think that they were leaving but uh all in all I would
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say the majority of the trucks were stayed there for the the duration of the three-week period and uh
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it wasn't until the very end when the police which we all saw the police crackdown that a lot of the
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truckers just said I'm going to get out of here instead of getting my truck damaged uh towed so
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impounded whatever the case may be so uh I was so point being majority of the truckers stayed until
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uh the very end but a lot of them got out of town real quick when the uh when they heard police were
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coming now we fast forward to you know when they first started saying that they're going to start
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laying charges down did people start to dissipate right away or was it a slow trickle of people
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leaving or how how quickly did people start to leave their posts there well basically what happened
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was so this all happened on the 18th I believe of so the 18th of February is when the police actually
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came in and started to basically sweep out the convoy but uh two days uh two days prior to that
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so on the Wednesday they started handing out these notices these blue notices uh from the Ottawa police
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saying that uh if you're a part of the convoy you know if you have a car a vehicle parked on the streets
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of Ottawa that is part of the convoy you must leave the area now you're facing threats of arrest
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etc etc so they kind of warmed up the uh the protesters the supporters the truckers and then
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the following day they handed out a the same kind of notice but this time it was red so I guess they
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were just giving sort of two warnings and then on the Friday they came and uh and basically full
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the uh full force of the police came to sweep out the uh the convoy a lot of the stuff we saw
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whether it's people being trampled having their trucks being broken into by police did that frighten
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people or did that make them want to stay more I'd imagine there's a lot of old people there who
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started once they started busting out horses running people over and SWAT teams busting in
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windows that they might have gotten a little scared yeah it was like even me being on the ground like
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you know I'm a journalist so I feel like I have some sort of protection although not really because
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we saw Andrew Lawton got pepper sprayed Alexa Lavoie got shot with the tear gas canister Guillaume
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uh one of our cameramen got pepper sprayed so I I but even still I still felt like I had a little bit
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more protection if I played it right if I didn't get too close to the what they were calling the
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front line which is basically the line that the police officers made various different units from
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Canada and then the protesters on the other side so at times it would get very tense and you know
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people were legitimately trying to hold the line so stop the police from coming up and moving in on
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the convoy without real like they weren't being violent about it they were just kind of you like
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just you like a human chain and it was so easy to get mixed up in that chain and there was elderly
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people we saw and in my live stream you can see an old man collapses some people were saying a heart
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attack stroke can't confirm any of that but he was on the ground from the crowd you know just basically
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backing up on him so uh it you know it depends I would say that a lot of the people once they saw that
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it was getting really crazy a lot of the older people and stuff they kind of got out of the crowd
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or just kept their distance but matter of fact is just to see the police you know smashing the windows
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of the rigs just no questions asked just dragging the truckers out and we've seen the videos of them
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you know kneeing protesters while making arrests multiple officers on top of one uh protester so
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the only violence I saw was from the police you know I was there for three weeks on the ground and
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there was no violence from protesters within the convoy the only violence was when the police came
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let's talk about when Alexa got shot by the gas canister I guess it was um so what was what did
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you see from that what was going on at the time did you think it was justified force for them to be
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shooting this stuff into the crowd how did you feel about the whole situation so basically that was day
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two so the whole crackdown from the police happened over two days so basically they uh cleared out an area
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of Wellington Street which is where the majority of the demonstration have been taking place
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and then they basically formed a line and then camped out on that line uh overnight and then once
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again in the morning we got word that there was a huge uh police presence uh not far from uh where
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it had ended the previous night so they just they just trickled in and uh you know we started going
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live and then next thing you know so they would just say they would all the police would just start
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saying move move and that's when they had batons and they would basically just they're trying to
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just gain ground right to eventually sweep the whole convoy out so as that was happening we started
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hearing pops going off like pops and we assumed they're just tear gas canisters but they were so
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loud because they were being fired from a rifle so that happened and I didn't even realize I was on my
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live stream and I didn't even realize I just saw people commenting saying Alex is injured Alexa's leg
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people were saying Alexa's leg is broken you know like just a whole bunch of things so I didn't know
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what was actually happening until uh I saw her about an hour and a half later she's a trooper and
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she came back and told me what had actually happened and uh you can see uh you can see a slight angle of
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her running off after she got shot in my live stream but at the time I had no idea and then realized
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after that she literally got shot point blank in the leg with I don't know the name of the rifle but
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it's a rifle that shoots tear gas canisters and uh yeah it's crazy to think of there's a lawsuit there
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isn't there I don't know how much you heard about it but there was like people saying that that was
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staged I don't know if you heard that that Alexa's Alexa being shot was staged because you know how we
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have websites that we get up like people think that there's a and I remember one for Avi and many
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when he was arrested and people thought that was staged so not and David Menzies of course which you
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were also there for where people think that we actually send people in to get hurt like that
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and just because we have a web team who's able to put up a website that it must be faked it's it's
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wild stuff and I know we're in a position now where most people don't believe everything they
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see and they shouldn't but how does it feel thinking that people you know they think what
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you're involved in is is staged and faked and we can go back to David Menzies if you want to
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getting roughed up by the RCMP yeah it's crazy to think because I'm there you know boots on the
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ground actually you know putting in my time and effort you're just trying to show people what's
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actually happening that's why I went live just to like so people just so basically people can't
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have those excuses right so that they can't say it's cut up they can't say it's edited if you just
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go live you know everything is there for you to judge you can come up with your own conclusions from
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the live feed and it's just crazy that people come up with these theories these rumors whatever you
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want to call them when all the evidence is right there you can't stage that there's just no
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way so I think it's just they're just trolls just people just trying to create something out of
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nothing and it's so obvious to anyone that's seen the footage that's seen the live streams that's not
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the case and even with the you know we didn't go live for with David Menzies when he got his head
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slammed by Trudeau's RCMP officers but even though there's just no arguing the footage they're just
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there's no arguing the footage and people are just going to say what they say now tell me about some of
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the media coverage that this got obviously we're up here in Canada our own little bubble
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when Sean Hannity's people called does that freak you out a little bit yeah it's just crazy to be
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honest I can just consider myself lucky I was on a hot story it had international tension everybody was
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talking about it at uh at one point and you know when you're really in Ottawa you could feel the buzz the
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energy about it we saw Fox News on the ground there which I don't think they come I don't think
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they put people in Canada too often like that unless it's a big story so I think it's something
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I'll remember forever definitely and just uh you don't really again you don't really realize when
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you're in the thick of it how big of a story it actually is and how much of an impact it may or may
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not have but looking back at it just no regrets on the coverage I did for sure yeah that's like six
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seven or eight million people watching live there however many Hannity has you think about that while
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you're doing it that's great I did never did a live stream before going to Ottawa I just it was
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all so new to me Yankee one Yankee our social media guy which I'm sure a lot of you guys know who he is
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he uh he kind of just coached me through how to do the live streams and you know said it would be
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valuable to do them so and same with the I was doing some uh on Getter and that just kind of
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introduced me to it and just kept on doing them and then I kind of got a little bit more comfortable
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with doing the live broadcast but I don't think there's any preparing for when like Hannity calls
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Fox News I was just just thinking in my head just don't screw up yeah pretty much right and then
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there's that other one I think it was the hill where they tried to bait you into talking a little
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bit like Charlottesville which is something before you or I were ever even in like news media
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happened before like we weren't even in 2017 I think neither of us were in like the media when
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this was going on and this guy sort of just and and after the fact I sort of looked into him and
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he's kind of like their guy who tries to get people he's like their Washington like I'll call
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them shill kind of guy uh and any feelings on that about a guy who basically like the segments about
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Ottawa and all of a sudden somebody tries to basically ruin your credibility
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like one of your first like big uh exposures to U.S. audiences yeah so
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basically when people when they when some different stations and stuff were reaching out to me in
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Ottawa because we only had like a couple people on the ground there so I was getting reached out to
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a little bit and I would just ask Sheila if what she thought about it so Sheila said yeah just go for
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it with the hill I we were so busy down there I didn't really have time to do my research and
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and kind of like I prepared what I could but not to like break down who I'm going in front of and
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who's going to be asking me questions and they were just really quick hits so I didn't really think
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anything of it so I set up my usual spot and uh everything was going everything was great as we
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were leading up to actually going on air the so it was a panel of three hosts and uh it was one
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female I forget her name and then two male hosts I forget I forget their names and basically uh it
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was all good they were they were chatting with me just mainly the female host was chatting with me
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and I was getting good vibes overall from it and then even the show opened up good they started asking
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me questions and this guy just brought up Charlottesville two or three times throughout the
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interview and I just I just dodged just kind of no commented it because I really have no comment on it
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so I just said that and then he asked me again right before the show is about to end he asked me
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for a final time he's like why don't you want to comment on Charlottesville you know he's like it's
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just leaving me with a bit of discomfort and I'm just and then the female host actually uh she kind of
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intervenes and she's like why are you she actually defended me and she's like why are you asking him
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these questions we're we're talking about the truckers convoy why are you bringing this up
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and basically I just answered I said I was in college at the time like I have no clue what you're
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talking about so I could feel that it was just that they were baiting me or something or at least
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the one the one guy was definitely baiting me I could feel the energy right away and it kind of
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shook me when I was getting interviewed I didn't expect it at all just to bring up something so out
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of the blue such a such a different topic but it was nice to see that uh the co-host defended me and
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looking back at it I'm happy I did it it was a good experience to see that not everyone not all media
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outlets that reach out to you are going to try and uh give you exposure that's in your favor
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so and Jimmy Dore also broke down the interview too which kind of was the cherry on top yeah it's
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interesting that I'm pretty familiar with the hill I mean I we all most people know that they're left
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wing but that morning show that they do is supposed to be like fairly down the middle and just reporting
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on Washington news and I think that surprised a lot of people and like you mentioned Jimmy Dore talked
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about it who's I think he's basically an anarchist I'm not sure what his actual like he would call
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himself but like him defending it was really funny um did any of the mainstream Canadian outlets reach
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out to you like were you on any of those were you on any CTVs or CP24 or anything no that isn't that
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interesting yeah I think looking back at it now I think it was all um I think it was all American
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outlets yeah it wasn't any any Canadian outlets they all had their their experts and their people
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on the ground that they want to talk to we would see them out out there every day but I just they
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don't I think it's obvious they don't want anything to do with with rebel news yeah it's it's pretty sad
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there Colin DeMello CTV news um reporting live um what year are we on of of lockdowns now like we're
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just in Ontario things or passports are getting lifted you've been reporting on this along with
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the others for at least two years now first question did you ever think it'd be this long
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second question do you think we ever actually get out of this stuff yeah it's crazy to think how long
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it's actually been um when I when I remember I was working as a waiter before I was even in this
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world I was just finishing up college and you know I remember just saying to one of my co-workers
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in the restaurant I was like it was like the night before they were it was a night before it
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was my final shift at the restaurant they were shutting stuff down the next day and we're just
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like I have a feeling this isn't gonna this is gonna be the last time I'm gonna see you for a
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while and just like we just had a feeling that this was that's something that there was something
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more and that this was going to last a long time but I don't think anybody thought that we'd still
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be dealing with it that we were just going to be coming out of lockdown what was it two months ago
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after there's a majority of the country's double vaccinated so I don't think anybody thought that
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this was this was going to go on this long and second question is where do I see this going do
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you think it's going to end do you think we're actually going to end and or do you think we're
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just going to move on to something else that's what most people are saying we're just going to move
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on to a climate lockdown or there's going to be another you know bio thing going on I don't know
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it's hard to it's hard to tell you're seeing Teresa Tam now you know they're doing giving the
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whispers again saying that yes we you know they are lifting the vaccine passport provincially but
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now but they're saying as usual that you know they will bring them back if necessary if things continue
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to spike I believe in the fall so I don't know it's just so hard to predict half of me believes that
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we are kind of exiting it the other half of me believes that we're going to see them come back or
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we're going to see masks come back if they're eventually lifted so I don't know it's it's just
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hard to tell I don't know watching police interactions for this long now what's your
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opinion on them been like has it changed for better or for worse and do you think that the general public
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opinion has changed as much as I do because I used to look at myself you'd see those videos I don't
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like I have my opinions on the George Floyd's and the Arbery's and the guy who tried to kidnap
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his kid and everything else shot and all this stuff all these cops all the black lives matters and
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everything and it's like you know what police have a tough job you take that position but then you start
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working up here during lockdowns and all of a sudden the police are ticketing you for shaking hands
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there's the one day where yourself myself writer Dave and producer Efron were reporting and the
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cops didn't like us standing next to each other they try to disperse us for standing near next to
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each other on a street corner does your opinion change going forward or do you are you just a little
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bit more cautious how do you feel about policing now it depends there's good cops and there's bad cops
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I have multiple friends some that I grew up with went to high school with that are police officers
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now I know they're good guys but at the same time it's hard for me to look at police officers who are
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taking the over the time and a half pay to come down to Ottawa and to you know treat these protesters
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like like animals to be quite frank and again you could tell when you're out there you can tell that
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a lot of the officers didn't really want anything to do with it they kind of just wanted this over and
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done with I'm sure they just went for the money but at the same time you see so many police officers
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just acting so viciously so it's really hard to tell I don't want to categorize all them into one
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into one category because they're all different but definitely there's a there's a different sense for
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policing now it seems like they are acting they're following orders a lot more and I don't know it's a
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lot harder to just simply back the blue you really have to characterize them individually
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what do you think now is the way forward for us as like a province or even a country in terms of
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who to vote for because we thought we had the conservative party in charge of us for a while
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with Doug Ford and then in Alberta and everything and it turns out that their way of governing is
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still taking away your rights do you have any thoughts just from like a person or voters perspective
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about what you think the next move forward should be for us as a people like not even who to vote for
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but like what type of thing should we be looking for I think it's hard to say who to vote for a lot of
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people like a lot of people that I was speaking to in Ottawa while I was covering the truckers convoy
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were very excited about Pierre Polyev being elected the leader of the conservative party but a lot of people
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at the same time were like he's just another politician so it's just hard to tell I think
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moving forward though the thing that just needs to be respected all across the board is not coercing
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and not coercing people to take a vaccine that they simply don't want to take for whatever reason
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that's their own and simply the mandates the all these things are just infringing on people's rights
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and we see the rest of the world around us slowly starting to lift these mandates and basically put
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COVID in the past so whoever is whoever whoever we elect whoever should be in power in Canada
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needs to understand that and respect people's rights and not coerce people for not taking a vaccine
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do not fire people for not taking a vaccine and simply if do not force people to wear a mask
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if you can respect all those things like those are the main things that's uh that's changed Canada
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from what it once was to what it is now and no more lockdowns do you think people are going to
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stop wearing masks it's going to be 50 50 maybe a bit it's so tough to say some people really like it
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some people really like to please people that was one of your early predictions was the um you know
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people wanting to use a mask as a way to hide from public yeah I think that's true I think that's
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very true that I think a lot of people just like to wear the mask just because it kind of like if
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they're shy or whatever the case may be I think the mask is kind of like a form of protection almost
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you know you can hide a lot of your emotions your facial expressions and just cover it up with the mask
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I think it's true hopefully we're not I think once that once enough people do it people will stop
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doing it as in take it off I think it's one of those social things that like no matter what it's
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not going to be preferable to wear a mask you get it's sweaty after minutes I try not to ever wear one
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what do you think is going to be the next uh big thing that's going to happen in Canada
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that we're going to send you to cover for six weeks I don't know I feel like there I feel like so
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many people got so excited over what we saw happen with the truckers and the convoy that
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I think I wouldn't be surprised if there's going to be something similar to like that similar to
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that in the near future I don't know if it's a convoy to another part of Canada where they
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basically do the same thing and uh and park out front of somewhere I just don't know so many things
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did happen behind the scenes while the truckers were there and uh a lot of people believe that it
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helped push help push COVID behind us even more so I'm not sure it's tough to predict uh but if I had to
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if I had to guess I would say yes there will be something in the in the near future that uh people
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are going to get behind I don't know if it'll be a convoy but what exactly is that going to be I
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don't know so Lincoln we were talking about some fake news with the trucker protests in Ottawa people
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thinking conspiracies how closely are you watching Ukraine Russia right now and are you as skeptical as
00:22:00.600
I am of everything given what we've learned the past couple years with COVID and everything
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I at first I was kind of just you know it's just like when COVID hit you don't know what to you're
00:22:13.440
trying to filter through everything right there's basically breaking news and you're just trying to
00:22:18.420
filter out what's real what's not I don't know it's so hard to predict right now I'm hearing mixed
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stories I like to talk to Dave our our editor and he kind of gives me a good consensus on on what's
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going on I just don't know once again we're seeing these crazy images like I don't know if you saw with
00:22:36.300
the cardboard uh the cardboard AK-47s yeah I did see that guy that was run on Fox News you know and
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I've seen that and then I saw the Time Magazine cover of the lady who uh was in some sort of bombing and
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people are saying that's from 2018 so I don't know when I see them using images that aren't related
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to the actual conflict it definitely sends out some red flags for sure so I don't know what to make of
00:23:00.860
it yeah I'm torn between you know people doing that on purpose and people just being bad reporters
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there's that Adam Kinzinger guy um and we can just look up his Twitter and bring it up he had the
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ghost of Kiev guy which was the Sam Hyde comedian photoshop um and then there's people using footage
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of bombings from I think it was from 2018 a gas explosion that you have a girl yelling at a
00:23:29.060
soldier the girl was actually like a Palestinian little girl so maybe we can have a little bit of
00:23:33.720
a mashup of all the things that have been proven wrong but it's gotten to the point here where I'm not
00:23:38.580
seeing and I'm sure by the time this even airs that I'm going to be proven wrong by some stuff but
00:23:44.260
I'm not seeing the people dying in the streets I'm not seeing anything other than some buildings
00:23:50.160
being shot with missiles which is in my guess when that happens that means somebody's firing
00:23:55.540
from this building like an apartment building but um I'm kind of coming at it from the angle of
00:24:01.560
Ukraine is this notoriously corrupt country where the Clintons and the Obamas and the Bidens love to
00:24:07.900
work out of and now all of a sudden how do you notice the sort of like the social media machine
00:24:13.520
behind it like whenever we have like a BLM thing or a rainforest thing it's the same sort of deal where
00:24:19.120
it's like you're a good person if you support this and change your flag and everything do you get that
00:24:23.960
feeling that it's got like that artificial push yeah for sure it's like when everyone posted the
00:24:29.980
black screen on their Instagram it just seems like that and it's just when when the the mainstream
00:24:37.080
media just completely jumps over a story so quickly and it's just the number one story I don't know
00:24:42.440
immediately all these red flags just start going up I just they've been there's been so many things
00:24:48.500
that they've said over this COVID period that we now know are just completely not true and they were
00:24:55.180
just willing to push that narrative whatever it may be with vaccines with masking everything that we
00:25:01.420
were told was effective that turned out to be not effective at all so it's just it's just
00:25:08.860
it's you just have to be so cautious when mainstream media is running these stories and then now with
00:25:15.800
the internet with all these all other alternative sources we're able to see the other side of the
00:25:20.020
story and uh and see what's actually happening I think it's too early to tell what's really happening
00:25:24.880
but uh I guess time will tell who do you watch who you look to for these things besides Dave
00:25:29.940
Sputnik is good they just banned uh RT and Sputnik in Europe on on YouTube it's good I think it's going
00:25:39.000
to get to this point where everything they did with you know people who are unvaxxed they're going to
00:25:44.620
start being treating that in the same way as they do with Russians you know what I mean like they're
00:25:48.620
already um they kicked them out of the Olympics they kicked them out of the World Cup uh Russian
00:25:54.260
teams aren't allowed to be in the soccer tournaments right now people want Alexander Ovechkin to speak
00:25:59.280
up and everything uh Dominic Hasek the former goalie said that all NHL players who are Russian
00:26:04.700
should be suspended I don't know how that makes any sense but uh I feel like we're just going down
00:26:10.560
this line we're like oh we found another group of people we can otherize and this is supposed and
00:26:16.040
as long as we're making ourselves feel like we're good people then it's okay but where does that
00:26:20.920
exactly end and I think this is going to be the first example like you can say uh unvaccinated
00:26:26.480
people are endangering other people and whatnot but like just being a Russian person now is enough
00:26:32.220
to to be criticized for your government it doesn't make any sense to me makes makes no sense so you're
00:26:37.980
just gonna you're just gonna throw all Russians under this one bubble and say that all Russians uh should
00:26:44.860
be held responsible for what their leader is doing so you know that Russian that Russian vodka company
00:26:51.480
that's been boycotted so what do they have a is it does Putin have stocks in it like why is that
00:26:56.980
related to uh why is that related to uh to what's happening with the with the war it's just that's
00:27:04.620
another point when they're just when everybody is just jumping on something so quick they're boycotting
00:27:09.840
everything from that country there when I don't know I think it's just common sense to realize that
00:27:15.060
you can't just put everybody under one umbrella well it's like why is it companies doing this it's
00:27:21.680
like it's the new cool thing to do but like why is the first thing that a company's responsibility is
00:27:28.140
to determine like it's like trying to please the government or the but Joe Biden's gonna love us if
00:27:34.280
we stop doing dealings with this Russian company when in the end of the day we know that like a
00:27:38.220
a communist dictator is not gonna thank you at the end of the day they're just gonna you know hurt you
00:27:43.700
if you're not doing what they they want and that's sort of the pressure I feel like these companies
00:27:48.600
have succumbed to and they all just started doing it one by one just like with lockdowns just like
00:27:53.920
with Black Lives Matter on the basketball court everybody if you remember the brief period of time
00:27:58.580
where like every video game had to have a BLM message and ever and Amazon had to have it it's like
00:28:04.100
there's now these social norms that as long as a big company or the government pushes it now it's
00:28:10.440
something you have to do and if you're not you're outcast for some reason I'm not sure I understand
00:28:14.380
it it stems from the top down it's some very powerful and influential a company a media company
00:28:21.940
a social media platform like at the very top they basically send the message and then it's like a
00:28:27.420
domino effect and all these media companies all these all these platforms underneath them just
00:28:32.640
follow suit whether they truly believe it or not makes me feel like high school okay I'm gonna pass
00:28:38.440
out from the lights and I was sick for like six days so I'm gonna have to cut it short here before
00:28:44.440
I fall asleep um on this table and die thanks everybody for watching and sticking around for
00:28:49.940
this extra segment with Lincoln J Lincoln MJ on Twitter um anything else we want them to follow
00:28:56.100
you on no that's it just Twitter it's where the fame is where the cloud is it's producer Efron is
00:29:01.900
the um the the blue check mark of producer Efron looms over us his his influence gets to us you know
00:29:08.760
when you get that retweet from a blue check mark Efron grows in power each and every day that's how
00:29:14.540
you know you made it yeah exactly all right thanks for joining us thanks for being subscribers
00:29:18.920
and loyal viewers of rebel news plus have a great week you guys