Pastor Mark Leach joins the show to talk about the election results, the anti-Semitism in the campaign, and why he thinks the Greens are going to fail to live up to their potential in the next three years.
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00:00:47.340Welcome back to the Yamini Report, and what a week it has been, my goodness.
00:00:53.540Did anyone predict it to play out like this? I don't know.
00:00:59.160Look, I can say I predicted half of it to my wife privately. I wasn't so brave to do it publicly.
00:01:06.160However, I think one thing we can all agree on now is we need God's help.
00:01:12.640So this week we have Pastor Mark Leach. Welcome to the show, mate. How are you doing?
00:01:17.980I'm great. Thanks, Avi. Look, 100% agree. We need God's help.
00:01:24.100I think we need God's help all the time, irrespective of particular election results.
00:01:29.640But yeah, I'm doing well, and it's just great to talk to you and talk to your listeners and hope people get something useful out of this.
00:01:37.360So how are you reacting to the election result? How do you see this?
00:01:42.180Well, I mean, given that my whole focus for the last 18 months has been how do we combat anti-Semitism and push back the hatred around Australia,
00:01:56.780I'm extremely happy that the most racist, anti-Semitic and divisive political party who stood on a platform of anti-Israel hatred,
00:02:10.120that the Greens have not extended, have not garnered substantial electoral support.
00:02:16.680I mean, I'm extremely happy about that, that Australians have rejected that kind of divisiveness and that kind of hatred.
00:02:22.100So as we speak, Adam Bant is still, his seat in Melbourne hasn't been...
00:02:28.640I think it's gone. I think he's going to lose it.
00:03:16.040You know, the Labour Party historically has been a really strong friend of Israel.
00:03:21.060Australia's had bipartisan support for Israel since its inception, you know.
00:03:25.880And so I'm delighted that that pressure on the hard left, that anti-Semitic, anti-Israel pressure will now be relieved from the Labour Party.
00:03:35.600And then we'll see how they govern over the next three years.
00:03:39.680If it's just about Israel, the issue of Israel, I don't think Albanese gives me much hope.
00:03:45.980Looking at his personal history, he has a long history, essentially being one of the Greenies that used to attend these protests.
00:03:54.200But I do agree with you that this was an astounding rejection.
00:03:58.860And it's probably good for the Greens as well, to be fair.
00:04:06.860But for them, it's a good lesson in like,
00:04:10.860Hey, guys, why don't you go back to focusing on getting the environment wrong, instead of, you know, taking up this due hatred cause that everyone's kind of rejecting.
00:04:25.620Well, anyone, you know, it's interesting when you look at who's voting for them, they're getting a lot of the young TikTok audience.
00:04:32.140That's who's voting for people that are learning about the Middle East conflict from 30 second clips that they're getting from paid propagandists.
00:04:41.720But they're losing their older, more sensible.
00:05:21.780Um, I think the problem that the Greens have is trying to work out how the, what they stand for now, because in one sense they've been so successful or we all agree that we should care for the environment.
00:05:36.320Like that's no longer a radical proposition.
00:05:38.500And in fact, labor have taken over probably all their, you know, environmental policies, apart from some of their crazy energy policies.
00:05:45.140So the Greens, when that, in their original, you know, raise on debt, their primary task of championing the environment, everybody's now doing that.
00:05:55.100Well, an embrace of Marx or radical Marxism, uh, you know, hating Australia, pulling it down and hating Israel.
00:06:01.940Like, I just don't think that's a great platform to try and win votes on in Australia.
00:06:06.800Uh, and I don't know what they're going to do about that.
00:06:09.140Um, I hope they just wither away and die, you know, political parties, these minor parties, like the Democrats, you know, they come into, they, they come up for a while and then they lose their, their kind of their reason and they, they, they drop away.
00:06:22.400So I'm, I, I, I, I, I'm hoping that's what will happen or they'll get back to caring about koalas.
00:06:29.140Now back to labor, labor's obviously got now a huge mandate.
00:06:34.660Um, and yeah, maybe they'll become a little bit more sensible in their, um, in their treatment of Israel, in their wording or the, you know, I think the other message, not, not just the Greens, even within those highly Muslim populated areas that there was a swing to them.
00:06:51.980So, yeah, I think, I think even, uh, in those areas they were rejected and so they're probably going to be emboldened and empowered to know that they don't have to bend over backwards for the Islamists because even when the Islamists campaign against them, they're still going to win.
00:07:08.880Um, but do you think on other issues, uh, you know, uh, other concerns here within Australia from the Labor Party is, I guess, their bend towards communist China and, uh, you know, woke ideologies, other, other wokes of, you know, the transgender, the radical, uh, uh, gender theories and all this other stuff that they're pushing.
00:07:33.780I mean, they're welcome to countries, they're self-loathing, everything else.
00:07:38.260Um, are we going to see, do you think the Labor Party is going to move away from that or this is their chance to double down or do you feel like they were only doing, they were only pushing those agendas really to, to please the left of their own party plus, um, their alliance with the Greens?
00:08:00.760I, I think the big task ahead of us as Australia is to recapture our confidence in the Australian project, as it were, in Western civilization, in this extraordinary country that we've managed to build since 1788.
00:08:24.160Built obviously on, um, on a lot of tragedy and, and violence against our, the original inhabitants, which is tragic, but it's the way all nation states really come to being.
00:08:35.460But, but since then we have built this extraordinary country and I would say, uh, over the next 20, 30 years, well, actually probably listen over the next five to 10 years.
00:08:46.200The challenges we're going to face as a country are monumental, the demographic decline that here, uh, moving to a post consumer society as we have fewer workers and more old people.
00:08:57.940And so people aren't buying stuff, the rise of AI, the proliferation of, of Islamist groups, the changes geopolitically as the U S withdraws, um, what happens in China and in our part of the world, uh, as they face demographic crisis.
00:09:12.200Uh, and then, you know, the, the temptation we're going to do what every country around the world is doing, which is try to solve our demography by importing lots of people.
00:09:21.200So in all of that, how do we bring people into an Australian, uh, an Australian-ness that can actually unite us and stop us fragmenting into sectarian politics and identity politics.
00:09:35.200So what worries me about labor and, uh, more generally-
00:09:41.200I'm glad that you circled back to my question because I feel like you just asked my question a lot better.
00:09:47.200What worries me is that nobody is thinking about these big issues and nobody is confident enough in that we're all, we're, we're, we're, we're tempted, they're being tempted as everybody is to play the identity politics, the divide, the conquer.
00:10:03.200To not think about a, a much, a better story that can actually unite us.
00:10:08.200And I think the challenges around our social cohesion are only going to increase.
00:10:12.200We're going to become a largely, so for example, the thing you didn't mention Indian migration.
00:10:16.200So everyone's like, bring the Indians in, right?
00:10:18.200Okay. Well, so what does that mean for Australia?
00:10:24.200So our cricket should get better, which would be fantastic.
00:10:26.200And, and there is an overlap culturally, but in seasons of great migration, how do we build social cohesion?
00:10:35.200And I go back to the Jewish community.
00:10:37.200The risk is when societies fragment into identity politics and when we face massive economic stress, as I think we will over the next five to 10 years, massive, massive turbulence.
00:10:51.200History shows us we tend to scapegoat the Jews.
00:11:22.200I dare say the Labour Party is only going to exacerbate all of that by signing us up to plenty more debt by giving away what they call free stuff.
00:11:50.200So I would rather, I would like to, I'm hoping the voices of kind of fiscal responsibility, economic restraint and prevail in the Labour Party.
00:12:00.200And look, the job of Australia, of the opposition, I mean, one thing, the challenge for the Liberal Party is, you know, a government is only as strong as the opposition.
00:12:07.200So it's absolutely critical that the Liberal Party get their act together.
00:12:12.200And, and I think if the Liberal Party can articulate a better vision for Australia that will unite us all, that's economically sound, that is courageous and visionary.
00:12:21.200And if the, and by the way, this, I'm, I'm frustrated with the independence at a Freedom Party.
00:12:27.200The guys on the right are also disillusioned ex-libs who, you know, put the major parties last kind of narrative.
00:12:32.200We need to bring, we need, we need a movement to hold the government to account.
00:12:36.200And, um, so if the Liberal Party, and you've seen that in Victoria, in your state, right?
00:12:41.200When, when there's no credible opposition to government, government becomes, uh, profligate, incompetent.
00:12:48.200And in the worst case, which I'm not suggesting about Victoria, cause I don't know enough, but certainly around the rest of the world, governments that aren't, aren't held to account by strong opposition inevitably become corrupt and self-serving.
00:12:59.200So as Australians, we need a strong opposition, we need a viable opposition, and we need some courageous, visionary leadership to unite us around a better story to navigate these difficult times.
00:13:12.200So, obviously watching mainstream media, I'm sure you're just refreshing the, um, ABC for that tally.
00:13:19.200But one thing that I've noticed watching the media since, uh, the election on Saturday night is the narrative that the Liberal Party failed, their failure was all because the Liberal Party became too Trumpian.
00:13:36.200Do you think that there's any truth to that?
00:13:39.200I think there's a bit of truth in the sense that it seemed to me
00:13:45.200the Trump, the sort of the chaos of the Trump tariffs and backwards and forwards and this, the, you know, appearing to abandon Ukraine.
00:13:58.200Um, I think that freaked a lot of people out in Australia and mainstream media and the Labour Party were very quick to associate, um, Dutton with Trump for their own political advantage.
00:14:13.200I didn't see a lot of Trumpian thinking in the Liberal Party.
00:14:18.200I thought by the end of the campaign, at some point, they seem to adopt, they seem to do the very opposite of Trump.
00:14:26.200So, which was to adopt a small target strategy.
00:14:29.200We will just, Aussies will be so fed up with, with elbow and labour cost of living so bad housing crisis is so bad.
00:14:36.200If we just don't say much, they'll turf them out.
00:14:55.200Nothing could be further from the truth.
00:14:57.200I think, I think our politics is a, is a politics of timidity driven by pollsters.
00:15:06.200Uh, partly that's a result of compulsory voting.
00:15:09.200But I think it's also partly, we have a generation of political leaders who actually don't have a vision for Australia that is compelling and can unite us.
00:15:18.200They haven't done the work of articulating that and developing that.
00:15:21.200And we need that kind of intellectual and cultural leadership going forward.
00:15:34.200I, I, I, I like the, I like the long answer.
00:15:36.200I'm, I just want to, cause it's kind of segue to my next question.
00:15:40.200No, the answer is no, but the media, you can see the media already and certain liberal politicians already trying to frame it that way to make sure that the liberal party becomes stays, it becomes labor light.
00:15:55.200For the last thing they want is a genuine, robust center-right conservative party.
00:16:01.200That's the way, that's the way I read it.
00:16:03.200I read it that, that, that the ABC is working overtime to ensure that the, that, that the lesson learned by the liberal party is to go even further left.
00:16:13.200Where it's absolutely ridiculous to argue that, that Dutton, you know, was running on principle.
00:16:20.200On most issues, he was running just labor light.
00:16:23.200You know, when they said net zero by 2030, he's like, we'll do it by 2050.
00:16:26.200When they talk about immigration, he's like, we'll do a little less than you.
00:16:31.200And so there just was no real practical point of difference.
00:16:34.200The only ones was really nuclear, which I don't think they sold it very well to Australia.
00:16:39.200Um, and you know, to credit where credit is due, he was very strong in his support for Israel direct and for Jews in Australia, but it's not necessarily just like Gaza is not a winning, um, sale for, for the Greens.
00:16:55.200I don't think, I think just Aussies are like more worried about what's happening here and the position to take probably is, yeah, we support Israel, but let's focus on Australia.
00:17:04.200Um, let's, let's, let's bring Australia forward.
00:17:07.200Having said that, I know that I am meant to be just asking you the questions and I can't help myself and inject my personal view on it.
00:17:15.200I did give you a chance. Let's, let's be on, let's be fair.
00:19:08.200Cause how would we, how would we reinterpret that for 2024, 2025 or the next 10 years?
00:19:14.200A deep sense of what it is to be Australian that, you know, fundamentally we're a Judeo-Christian civilization.
00:19:20.200So I think Menzies and Howard were deeply rooted in that tradition and those values.
00:19:26.200So conservative in the best sense that, you know, there's a thousand years of English history that have shaped how we see the world.
00:19:35.200There's 3,000 years of Jewish history in how to organize society based on the Torah, based around the 10 commandments.
00:19:43.200And I think Menzies and Howard and the best of the conservative tradition honors that, builds on that, unashamedly confident in it.
00:19:53.200That's saying limited government, small government, uh, no politics of envy, but a politics of aspiration, uh, courageously addressing the fact that people don't want to have kids because they're scared of the future.
00:20:08.200Menzies and Howard were optimistic about the future.
00:20:11.200So we have to say as a species under God, we're capable of extraordinary things.
00:20:16.200And, and, and the politicians for the last 20 years, particularly under the climate emergency and then COVID, they gain power by making people afraid.
00:20:25.200And it, and we're all doom and gloom and, and everything's cooked and we're all a mess.
00:20:30.200If you trust us, we can see way through say, no, no, as a species, we're capable of extraordinary innovation.
00:43:54.200Um, uh, it is frustrating to see, uh, such a violent person literally attack somebody in front of so many witnesses and be allowed to attack again.
00:44:05.200Police come and they let him go and he, he, he came three times.
00:44:08.200He, he, he essentially attacked three times.
00:45:05.200Um, Marie, you make some good points here.
00:45:08.200The, the, the, if you guys should have, if you watched the video, um, you'll see that the argument that one of the activists who was a refugee himself was making is that, um, when I said, well, should we send back?
00:47:58.200Joanne says, humanity is seeing the Gazans.
00:48:01.200We're all there chilling, uh, cheering on and laughing when the Bibas babies were murdered in horrific ways, strangled and then mutilated to cover up their atrocities in the way they were killed.