Cancelling Keystone XL： Biden's gift to Trudeau
Episode Stats
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Summary
Tom Harris of the International Climate Science Coalition joins me on The Gun Show to discuss the cancellation of the Keystone XL pipeline, Joe Biden and his new anti-oil alliance with Justin Trudeau, and why he thinks this is a gift to the Prime Minister.
Transcript
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Oh hello Rebels. You're listening to a free audio only recording of my weekly Wednesday night show
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The Gun Show and this week you're in for a real treat. Maybe you can hear some buzzing and whirring
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and humming in the background. That's because I'm standing beside the cooler at the Whistle Stop
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Cafe in Mirror and my show is filmed on location here this week because this has become my office.
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Now the show is not about the Whistle Stop. It is about Keystone XL and Joe Biden and how Canadian
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politicians are handling the cancellation of the Keystone XL pipeline and my guest tonight to discuss
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all those things and more is Tom Harris of the International Climate Science Coalition. Now if
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you like listening to the show then I promise you're going to love watching it but in order to watch you
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Is Justin Trudeau happy to let Joe Biden be the bad guy? I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed and you're watching The Gun Show.
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Well Keystone XL is officially cancelled with a stroke of the pen by new president Joe Biden. It
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still feels gross to say that doesn't it? Now Keystone XL was stalled by the Obama administration
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that was the administration that Joe Biden was the vice president of. However it was pushed forward
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nearly immediately by President Trump and I think it's a common misconception that the pipeline isn't
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built. It is. The cross-border section is in the ground. But Joe Biden is undoing all of that
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continuing to landlock Canadian oil and gas since that pipeline would take oil from the oil sands through
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Hardesty, Alberta all the way to the Gulf of Mexico. Now I have a friend, a guest on the show tonight
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who thinks that this is Biden's gift to Trudeau. That Trudeau gets to outsource his anti-oil nature
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to Joe Biden so that Trudeau doesn't have to be the bad guy. My guest tonight is Tom Harris from the
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International Climate Science Coalition. He has an incredible article in the Toronto Sun about Joe
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Biden, Trudeau and their new anti-oil alliance. And he joins me in an interview we recorded in my vehicle
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because I have been on a great burger stakeout in central Alberta where there is a bit of a rebellion
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against the cancellation of dine-in food service here in Alberta. So it is not the usual studio
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quality that you expect but I will assure you the content it's there. Have a listen.
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So joining me now from his home in Ottawa and me from my car in the middle of small town Alberta is
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Tom Harris of the International Climate Science Coalition. Tom thanks so much for your patience with
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me today but also for taking the time to talk to me. I read a really incredible article about something
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that I think is the top of mind for many Albertans but many people in Canada who care about foreign
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influence in our politics and about energy security for all of North America. And that article in the
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Toronto Sun was titled Killing Keystone XL is Biden's gift to Trudeau. And I think you know who wrote
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that. Yeah I wrote it because it suddenly struck me that you know Trudeau is constantly calling himself
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a climate warrior you know and he and Catherine McKenna dressed up in superhero costumes to try and show
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how they're really you know climate uh climate campaigners climate activists etc. And those are his
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primary friends when it comes to this file. I don't think it is the the oil sector workers but at the
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same time he has to put on the face of looking like he cares about the workers. So who's he going to
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alienate? Is he going to alienate his climate activist friends by allowing the Keystone XL to continue or is he
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going to alienate normal Canadians by cancelling one of the most important projects in Canada? So Biden has
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done him a huge favor because now he doesn't have to make any decision. He doesn't have to annoy anybody
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because he just says well Joe Biden did it. There's nothing I can do about it. Sorry move on.
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You know that it really was an easy out for Trudeau that you know he hands off the um being the bad
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guy over to Joe Biden um and Trudeau thinks that he can skate unscathed for never actually ever
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supporting Keystone XL. And I think it's been uh really remarkable as an Albertan to see
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the lack of support for what appears to be 11,000 jobs that were instantly nuked by the cancellation
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of Keystone XL versus how Trudeau was willing to break the law um for SNC-Lavalin jobs um he
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backed a crooked Quebec engineering company a company that is accused of buying hookers for
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Muammar Gaddafi's kids. He was willing to break ethics laws for that and yet we get a you know it's
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it's Biden so it's whatever that's what we get here in Alberta when it comes to Keystone XL.
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Yeah exactly and of course Trudeau has been laying the groundwork for the cancellation of this
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pipeline forever really and in fact it's interesting that in the French version of his speech just last
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week he was saying and he didn't say this in the English version as far as I know but regardless he
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said that Biden's objectives and his uh perspectives actually align very nicely with Trudeau's.
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So he's sort of saying it's okay for you to cancel the pipeline um and and also of course as I say
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he's been laying the foundation for the cancellation by promoting the mindset that we have to stop
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you know go to carbon neutral by 2050 and and uh so and out of one side of his mouth he says oh yeah
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sure I stand up for the Keystone pipeline but then the other side of his mouth he's he's supporting the
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climate scare and of course the climate folks want to end all fossil fuels and this is where I think
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Jason Kenney and a number of the American governors are really off base in their arguments in favor of
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the pipeline they're constantly saying well you know it's a much cleaner way to transport fuel
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than by trucks or by rail and they're right that's that's completely true but it's irrelevant to the
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climate activists and the people who want to kill all fossil fuels because sure they killed Keystone XL
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and if they start doing it by truck more they'll try and kill that if they want to do it by rail or by
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ship or by doesn't really matter their overarching objective is to kill all fossil fuels so so the
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next thing Kenny says is well you know if the Americans don't get the oil from us they're going
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to have to get it from foreign dictators well yeah that's true also but again it's irrelevant and
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Sheila you know I made up a bit of an analogy I think that will show how silly uh their arguments are
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and their arguments are destined to fail because they're saying on the one hand we have this great
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climate crisis and you know the war room when they were defending the project after Biden's
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cancellation if you actually look at the statements they made uh what are they called the um Alberta
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uh let's see here we go it's called the Canadian Energy Center that's their war room they actually
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use language that boosts the climate scare in their rebuttal to Biden okay and even the Canadian
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Chamber of Commerce Parambidi did the same thing so all these groups seem to feel that they can give
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virtue signaling to the climate scare and that there won't be consequences well of course there are
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consequences the consequences are that Biden says and and he could assemble a very good uh television ad
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for Canadians if he wanted go through YouTube pull out videos of Kenny of Scott Moe of Trudeau saying
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we have a climate scare we have to go carbon neutral put them together into an ad and say
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Biden would say to Canadians okay we're doing what your leaders want you should be thanking us for
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saving your poor starving polar bears but instead you know they use weakling arguments from Canada and
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the governors what they really should simply say is look you cannot run uh an industrial society on
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wind and solar power because if you look at Biden's um comments over the over the months he's actually
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been suggesting you can replace oil with wind and solar you can't do it and the second thing is of
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course the keystone is causing no climate crisis and that's something that they're all afraid to say
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and yet without saying that they're not addressing the major reasons that Biden killed it and of course
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Obama in 2015 so they're just skirting the issue and they're going to lose and they continue to lose and
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they will always lose if they don't address the primary issue well and I think it's even worse than
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just losing they're actually conceding too much of the battleground they're moving the front lines
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closer to themselves when they can see the language of the left don't even talk about climate change then
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just talk about the sheer economics of it the sheer unreliability as you point out of uh wind and solar
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that you cannot run an economy on wind and solar Tom it has been minus 30 here okay you got to thank God
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every day for the miracle of fossil fuels to keep Canadians alive in these extreme temperatures where
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we are I mean it is really the miracle of fossil fuels that we are able to live and thrive and continue
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to dig up fossil fuels in this economy to help everybody else yeah exactly in this entire climate
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and that's really lost on people who are deciding that we need to get off fossil fuels from their cozy
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little cubicle in the tides foundation building in San Francisco yeah exactly you know the whole concept
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that you can support an industrial society with wind and solar I mean this is what I call magical thinking
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it's equivalent to new age spiritualism where they talk about uh new age prism power you know how
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I mean it's truly ludicrous and and you know I made up a bit of an analogy I should explain
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let's say when the government's ready to distribute COVID-19 vaccines there's an anti-vaccination group
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who's opposing it so the government says well if you don't let us distribute it people are going to have to
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go to the black market to get this COVID-19 vaccine and besides we're working hard on prison power which
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of course the anti-vaccines say will cause you know we will solve COVID okay so it's ridiculous I mean
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obviously the only way that you could win that argument is is to demonstrate that the vaccine is safe if in
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fact it's safe to demonstrate it's safe and you have to state point blank no prison power new age
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prison power is magical thinking it does not kill COVID-19 and but you know Jason Kenney and others
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it's almost like they're saying please forgive us for our oil because we're still working on wind and
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solar power you know yeah and it's just so pathetic really um Mark Garneau's statement we were we respect
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and understand I think is what he said our foreign affairs minister well yeah we respect and understand
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we don't respect but we do understand it's purely political in the United States you know they're
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saying well you know if the Canadians don't sell us their oil they're just going to sell it somewhere
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else they're missing the point too the objective of the climate activists is to stop all production of
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the oil sands yeah sure we could send it somewhere else if in fact big protests and pipelines you know go
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through and the protests don't stop it um but but people are not taking a strategic overview and the
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overview is simply that pipelines are one mechanism but they want to kill all the mechanisms they want
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to blow up all the bridges of fossil fuels out of the oil sands indeed they want to blow up all the bridges
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of fossil fuels everywhere so a lot of the arguments are are pretty darn weak you know what they really
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should be saying is you need fossil fuels and here's why and here's their benefit and they're
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not causing a climate crisis so now we should move on do you know I'm happy that you brought up that
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the idea that we do need to take a broader overview of the environmentalist activist movement I was actually
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talking to my friend Robbie Picard from oil sands strong yesterday and he said he does not think these
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Americans understand really what's at play here that in Canada I suppose because of our awareness through
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you know Stephen Harper's government wanting to audit these environmental charities and in Alberta you
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know we've we see the activism from the environmental movement blocking our pipelines it you know it started
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with Northern Gateway it's continuing with uh Trans Mountain Energy East was a target now Keystone XL
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we see the influx of foreign funded money how they use um the indigenous people to as basically human
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shields for what they're doing and they round up the useful idiots to block pipelines and I don't think
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that they really truly understand what's about to be unleashed on them in the United States with
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Biden in power because these are the people who put Biden and Kamala Harris in power these are the
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green new dealers these are the Naomi Clines and they don't care about science they don't care about
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the economy they want to end fossil fuels and they are just those watermelons with the red center
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wrapped in the green outside and I think a lot of the American uh industry the oil and gas industry is
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going to be really caught off guard at how quickly it's going to become very very difficult to get a
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project done in the United States oh yeah yeah we don't take a strategic view on lots of things I mean
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we fight these as individual battles the coal people fight by themselves natural gas will even oppose
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coal because they think they can get a market share right but but I mean it's like Ben Franklin said we
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either all stand together or we all hang together I mean the fact is fossil fuels are the target across the
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board of the climate activists they want to get rid of all of them and it may be true that in the short
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term natural gas benefits from coal's demise but in the long run bang bang bang bang they want to knock
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them all off and so you should support coal if you're a natural gas person because you're next
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and you should support natural gas if you're an oil person because you're next they want to end the
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whole thing and in my opinion Sheila if if Premier Kenney is brave enough to have a war room and to have
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this study into foreign influence then he should be brave enough to say look there's never been a
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proper open public hearing in Canada about the science that we say or that the activists say is
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backing the climate scare so we're going to hold a hearing we're going to invite in scientists from
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different points of view we're going to have it available to the public I'm not going to judge
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Premier Kenney could say I'm not a climate expert but I'm going to let the experts Professor Patterson
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from Carleton or Ian Clark from Ottawa U many many experts know the climate scare is ridiculous
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and when the public would hear that it would pave the way for him to start saying the things that he
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should say he doesn't have to do it now but get it started because it's never happened in Canada
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that's the thing that he should do and as I say if he's brave enough to write or to start the war room
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and and have this report which the Globe and Mail is you know completely attacking today then yeah you might
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as well do the right thing and the right thing is to try to show that there is no climate crisis and
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certainly even if there were the contribution of the oil sands is trivial in comparison with what's
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happening in China where they have no limits and they're going to build coal stations forever
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so that's what you should do yeah and I I agree now I do appreciate how vocal Premier
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Kenny has been um especially selling the plight of Alberta to our American friends um he did a great
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job on Fox News but again he he's sort of conceded too much ground to the environmental left he even went
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on MSNBC uh that festering liberal hotbed to uh sell the Alberta viewpoint and I think maybe they let
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him on because he was a Canadian and they just assume we're all socialists um but I think it is
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fascinating to see how Premier Kenny is leading the charge on this issue and Justin Trudeau is just sort
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of shrugged his shoulders and and put his head down and again I think it goes back to how you describe
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that this is Joe Biden's gift to Trudeau this is Joe Biden he gets to be the bad guy in Canada because
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we can't vote for him and he gets to be the good guy to the environmental movement in in the United
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States yeah exactly and I think Kenny is completely right to have no patience with Trudeau with Garneau
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with our ambassador to the United States because their responses were extremely weak and as he said
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if you compare it with other times when he was defending eastern Canadian interests it was entirely
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different but you know in some of those broadcasts it was really interesting because I was watching a few of
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them last night including that one and they would have Kenny come on and he'd present the standard
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arguments you know cleaner uh you know Americans are our friends and and all these things but then
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immediately after him they would have an an anti-oil sands activist come on and they would not emphasize
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that they would emphasize it's the climate scare just like Obama said and just like Biden said and you
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think oh that's interesting um Kenny didn't even really address that except to say oh please forgive us
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because we're working to reduce greenhouse gases he didn't really address the fact that their scare
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is is ridiculous I mean it doesn't make any sense so you hear these two arguments being presented it's
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like somebody saying well how tall are you oh well I'm white uh yeah that's nice but how tall are you
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and and they keep answering something different you know and not just something different but pardon me for
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being over five foot seven I'm sorry I'm working on seeming smaller exactly please forgive us for our
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oil because we're working on wind and solar no they should say wind and solar are hopelessly pathetic
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when it comes to really supplying proper energy so that's the other side of the equation he has to be
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direct on the climate he has to be direct on the real sources of energy if you go anywhere in the
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mushy middle you're gonna lose and that's why they continue to lose now I want to talk to you about
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something that is unrelated but it is one of those fronts in um you know climate skepticism that is
00:21:21.800
under attack um and that is our ability to talk about these things and you've had a 35 year
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battle with the cbc you've been fighting the cbc long enough for your fight with cbc to have their
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own kids in school yeah tell us all about this yeah well it started in 1986 when they were covering
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the space shuttle challenger launch that was coming up in january exactly 35 years ago tomorrow on tuesday
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on thursday and um the interesting thing was that they kept saying like many of the media
00:21:59.280
that nasa was not launching with the reliability and regularity of the uh french arian rocket and
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of course it was very cold in florida then in fact there were icicles on the oranges so I called the
00:22:11.720
cbc the national who were criticizing nasa on the on the tv for not launching with the frequency of the
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arian and I explained to the producer I said you know there you can't compare a manned booster with an
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unmanned booster I mean if the unmanned one blows up they lose a lot of money but nobody dies
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they didn't really have any patience but the cbc kept pushing and of course lots of media across the
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united states were doing the same thing so nasa eventually overruled their engineers who were
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concerned about safety with respect to the launch they hadn't launched ever at such low temperatures
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there are various components they didn't know how well they would work and so they launched anyway
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and on the 28th of january 1986 we had the challenger disaster where the whole crew was lost it was
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actually driven largely by media and so you know I called cbc up because then they started to
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criticize nasa for launching at that time and I called up the producer and said well you know
00:23:08.360
they're doing what you were saying they should do now you're just cutting them up again so they
00:23:13.920
it was it was really bad and they had no interest again whatsoever so I realized at that time as an
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aerospace engineer if I was going to get this covered reasonably correctly I had to learn about how to be a
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media person myself so I took a course at algonquin it worked out pretty well because I got into the
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climate area and space and all sorts of things but you know one uh interesting chapter in the battle
00:23:37.320
with cbc was in the year 2000 I wrote a letter to them saying you keep saying there's a consensus in the
00:23:43.560
climate science community about the causes of climate change as far as I know there is none show me that
00:23:49.200
there is one so the president of the cbc assigned the omswoodsman who then was david bazay who's since
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passed away uh to actually prepare a report to show there was a consensus in the climate science community
00:24:00.760
and a little later I got a 10 page answer and I thought oh this is great we'll see what he says
00:24:06.020
and I went through it not a single scientist not a single scientific organization was referenced
00:24:11.720
what he did is he looked at other media and what he showed was that in those 10 pages he showed
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there was a consensus in the media that there was a consensus in the climate science community
00:24:23.480
so I wrote to the president and I said well he hasn't demonstrated anything about consensus in the
00:24:28.600
climate science community he's starting there's a consensus in the media like so what and the president
00:24:33.240
was very satisfied the case was closed I got a job with Bob Mills as the legislative assistant for
00:24:39.280
the opposition environment critic and of course the party wouldn't want me to fight with the cbc when
00:24:44.800
i'm working for the party so i had to drop it but since then you know there's even been one instance
00:24:49.920
for example where i went in for an interview with radio canada cbc's uh radio and uh they took the audio
00:24:57.280
of my interview and they rearranged sentences to make it say or make me say things i didn't really say
00:25:04.800
now i got i was able to give them a bit of a black eye because i had my own recording of the original
00:25:11.040
interview smart put that up along with theirs and i said to the public is that fair and of course i
00:25:17.680
got a lot of people saying no it wasn't and even today i mean same thing they get on they censor their
00:25:23.200
comments pages you know your content is disabled and i write to them i'm not breaking any of your rules
00:25:29.200
like why can't i talk about some of the benefits of donald trump why can't i talk about an alternative
00:25:34.880
perspective on covid or climate change no answer i get on again i say well i'm trying again i'm not
00:25:40.800
breaking any of your rules delete so they continue to do it and people have got to appreciate that
00:25:47.920
whatever they hear on cbc is extremely biased in these topics and often totally wrong and if you try
00:25:54.720
and correct them even if you're an expert in the field as i was at the time they just ignore you
00:26:01.520
we have seen this firsthand we had a viewer of ours who knows a little something about something he
00:26:10.320
was watching i think it was the national and they were talking about these islands off the east coast
00:26:15.360
that are you know constantly changing and being eroded by the ocean and so they're shrinking but then
00:26:20.880
they're growing in other places as these things tend to do that the sand just doesn't disappear it
00:26:26.160
moves somewhere else is that's how you know those are the laws of thermal dynamics things just don't
00:26:31.600
disappear they get moved around and restructured and end up somewhere else so the viewer saw this and
00:26:39.120
saw cbc presenting just one side of it saying the yes indeed these little islands are being eroded
00:26:45.920
but that's because of climate change it's because of you know rising tides because things are melting
00:26:53.280
and this is all because of climate change and so he wrote to the ombudsman and said actually no this is
00:26:59.600
you know all we this has always been happening there and you know the the shoreline changes all the time
00:27:06.240
and the sand is deposited deposited elsewhere and complained that it was an unbalanced view of it
00:27:13.760
and the ombudsman wrote him back and said that while that i suppose very well may be true we will
00:27:23.920
never present two sides of the debate when the topic is climate change ever that is cbc policy that there
00:27:34.080
are not two sides that the skeptics are 100 wrong 100 of the time on everything well and you know they do it
00:27:41.680
it on other fields too i mean uh i used to be a member of a church and cbc interviewed one of the
00:27:47.440
top parishioners in the church and they asked him a question and he answered the question they asked him
00:27:53.520
the same question again he answered the question they kept asking him the same question he finally
00:27:58.080
got frustrated and he answered kind of angrily they took that clip and they put it on air because they
00:28:03.440
were trying to show i mean presumably they were trying to show that our group was a right-wing radical
00:28:09.360
angry church group and so they do it on all kinds of things you know like there's no way we should
00:28:15.040
be funding the cbc i mean if they want to stand or or not on their own volition that's that's their
00:28:20.800
business but for the canadian taxpayer to pay for that extremely biased coverage in many fields is just
00:28:27.120
wrong well and they know the taxpayer won't pay for it out of their free will that's why they're so
00:28:33.440
opposed to to the possibility of having to go the pbs route oh yeah you know just one quick point on the
00:28:40.800
climate issue um what jason kenney should be saying also is we can't stop climate change no matter what
00:28:47.040
you believe about the science so we should work on adaptation we should help people adapt to climate
00:28:53.360
change whatever the cause burying cables underground you know helping reinforce buildings that are falling
00:28:59.120
down in the north where the permafrost is melting of course it's increasing in other places due to
00:29:03.680
natural change so that's the thing but in canada there's only 13 percent of the money going to
00:29:09.440
adaptation to helping real people today and the rest of it all goes to this fairytale idea that you can
00:29:15.920
actually stop climate change so that's where the emphasis has to shift it has to shift over to
00:29:21.600
sensible adaptation to help real people now well any again that's a great point to make that canada is
00:29:30.960
so small in the grand scheme of things large country tiny population tiny contribution to greenhouse gas
00:29:39.280
emissions if you think those are doing something to the planet so we are never going to compel china
00:29:46.720
and india to de-industrialize so if indeed you do think that you know greenhouse gases are are changing
00:29:55.920
things then let's figure out how to best deal with that change as opposed to de-industrialize ourselves
00:30:04.080
have no impact on anything and watch china take over the world yeah exactly that's exactly how i would put
00:30:10.880
it too it's like you're in a in a lifeboat an inflatable lifeboat and you're puncturing it with
00:30:16.560
a pin and somebody else is using a chainsaw and you get after the pin punctures yeah and that would
00:30:24.080
assume that the climate theory is right which i don't believe it is but if it were we're just a
00:30:30.000
little tiny pinprick in comparison with china's chainsaw i mean we're gonna have no impact except
00:30:35.680
ruin our economy for nothing now tom you're being very kind because i am on my phone in my vehicle at a
00:30:44.160
diner rebellion and you are actually recording this zoom call on your side um so uh i don't
00:30:51.920
want to take up too much of your time and i guess too much of your hard drive space but if you wouldn't
00:30:56.480
mind telling everybody where they can find the work that you do support the work that you do and please
00:31:02.160
don't forget to tell everybody about your excellent podcast yeah sure my podcast first if you do a google
00:31:09.040
search for tom harris and exploratory journeys you can hear the various podcasts the most recent one
00:31:14.880
was susan crockford uh a phd yeah phd in zoology who specialized on polar bears and she points out that
00:31:22.480
the polar bear population has approximately tripled since the 1960s so they're not in danger but we have
00:31:29.840
climate scientists and all sorts of people so that's where you can find it um and our web page for learning
00:31:35.200
more about us is climate science international dot org great tom thanks so much for being so generous
00:31:42.320
with your time and generous with your hard drive space and patient with me as i'm from my car and i
00:31:48.640
hope we can have you back on the show again very soon yeah and thank you to the rebel for your work
00:31:53.280
because without you i don't think we'd have anywhere near the knowledge that we do of what's really going
00:32:11.440
i do think our american friends have no idea what's coming their way i think the biden presidency has
00:32:18.080
unleashed anti-oil anti-fossil fuel anti-human activism in a way that i think our american friends are
00:32:27.760
completely unprepared for best of luck to them we've experienced that for at least the last
00:32:35.440
five years here in canada and maybe even longer as anti-oil activists masquerading as the charitable
00:32:44.320
sector move to landlock our oil and gas sector with foreign money well everybody that's the show for
00:32:52.320
tonight thank you so much for tuning in i'll see everybody back here in the same time in the same
00:32:57.200
place next week maybe i'll be in my car on a burger steak out maybe i'll be back here in studio who
00:33:03.520
even knows any more in these unpredictable times but what i can tell you is please remember don't
00:33:10.720
let the government tell you that you've had too much to think