CBC says western alienation is either foolish, overly emotional, or based on a lie
Episode Stats
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170.18207
Summary
Justin Trudeau has been on vacation for two weeks straight, and the rest of the country is on vacation. The CBC is busy trying to figure out how to deal with the growing number of Westerners who are getting restless, and they have a plan.
Transcript
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Hello, my rebels. Today, I do something that you may find a little bit abusive. I play
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extended clips from a CBC show at you, and I apologize in advance, but I do so
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only as an example of the kind of gross anti-Alberta ooze that emanates from the CBC.
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I normally would not inflict it on you. I quote from, I show you clips from a CBC panel,
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and I read to you from just a super gross CBC essay that they published about Alberta.
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Unbelievable. And I'll leave you to listen to it. You'll hear my conclusion at the end.
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Before I get out of the way, let me invite you to become a premium subscriber of Rebel News.
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Go to premium.rebelnews.com. It gives you the video version. And especially today,
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when I show you a bunch of clips of a video, I think it really adds to the experience. I know
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you to get a premium subscription. It's eight bucks a month, and it supports the Rebel. All right,
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Tonight, Trudeau's CBC state broadcaster looks at Western alienation and says
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it's either foolish, overly emotional, or based on a lie. It's November 4th, and this is the Ezra LeVant Show.
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Why should others go to jail when you're a biggest carbon consumer I know?
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There's 8,500 customers here, and you won't give them an answer.
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The only thing I have to say to the government about why I'm publishing it is because it's my
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Justin Trudeau has been on holiday for pretty much two weeks straight. He's back out in Tofino
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surfing again. I mean, there's nothing for him to bother talking about, is there? I mean, sure.
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Hundreds of layoffs at Husky Energy in Calgary. Another Western energy company named Citadel just
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up and left Canada for the U.S. The energy giant, and Canada wants the largest Canadian company of
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any kind. By the way, it just announced that it's moving its head office to the U.S. No big deal.
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Well, Trudeau's busy surfing some gnarly waves, dude. I mean, he'll get back to things when he needs
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to, dude. In the meantime, his surrogates at the CBC have been dispatched to handle the Westerners who
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are getting a bit restless. I caught this clip online. It's a CBC reporter named Katie Simpson.
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Literally not a single liberal member of parliament was willing to speak to the N-CANA move in the
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United States. So Katie Simpson and the CBC stepped up to fill the void. It's how you get ahead of the
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CBC. I mean, she still has a ways to go to catch up to Rosemary Barton, who literally sued the
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Conservative Party mid-campaign. Oh, but she's trying. So Katie Simpson had Jason Kenney, the
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Premier of Alberta Honour Show, and it was quite something. Now, take a look. I'm not going to show
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you all of the exchange. I'm not actually going to show you most of Kenny's answers, though they
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were actually pretty good. Because my point today is to show you the CBC, and by extension, the Media
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Party, and their approach to Western issues. That's my purpose today. Kenny's answers were pretty good.
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An N-CANA CEO who has since said, since the decision announcing that they are going to shift
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their headquarters to the United States, they're rebranding, he has said publicly that he is
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adamant the political climate has nothing to do with the decision to move its headquarters and to
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Hmm. What a bizarre question. In fact, Simpson herself is the liar. The world price of oil is the
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world price. I mean, we Canadians do get a little bit less than the world price because the pipeline
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bottleneck, sometimes a lot less. But the world price is the world price. The North American price
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of gas is pretty much the same, pretty much on both sides of the Canada-U.S. border. But in Canada knows
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its future is in the U.S. because they're not being attacked down there every day in the United States.
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The U.S. has a fraction of our oil reserves. And we have a lot of gas, too. But they're drilling and
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fracking and mining it down there as fast as they can. They're not only the world's largest producer
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now, they're a net exporter competing against us in Canada, actually. And Canada's not dumb.
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They know which side of the border they want to be on. Everything from taxes to regulations to just
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not being attacked. Here's the founder of NCANA, Gwen Morgan, helping the slow kids at the CBC. This is
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about moving to where you're not being demonized and taxed and attacked. Duh. But back to Katie Simpson
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of the CBC. I mean, you know that Trudeau loves oil and gas. I mean, this is her argument. Trudeau loves
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oil and gas. He doesn't hate it because, because get this. Now, you said in an interview with the
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Globe and Mail that this is not just about in Canada. It's about the broader decline of the
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Canadian energy industry. I'm going to quote something that you said, which I think is a
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deliberate policy of the Trudeau government. Now, why specifically say that when the Trudeau
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government bought a pipeline? Well, they bought a pipeline after having killed two pipelines.
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But they didn't, they didn't kill the pipelines. If you're talking about Energy East, they didn't
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kill that. That was a decision made because of regulatory, but I'll let you finish your answer.
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That Elmer Fad moment was gorgeous. Yeah, the government bought an existing
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70-year-old pipeline called Trans Mountain. It wasn't actually for sale, by the way. It wasn't in
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jeopardy being shut down or anything. It has been quietly pumping away for three generations now.
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Trudeau bought it, paying about a billion dollars more than it was worth, just to shut up the
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company that owned it, Kinder Morgan. Because, of course, they have this massive plan to expand the
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pipeline, to win it. And that's been delayed and delayed and delayed. And after the liberals killed
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Northern Gateway and killed Energy East, killing this would be shocking to any remaining investors
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in the country. So Kinder Morgan was about to throw in the towel, as had other pipeline companies
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like Energy East, when Trudeau changed the rules and delayed them. And if this last pipeline would be
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abandoned, that would be a reputational disaster for Canada. So Trudeau spent $4.5 billion overpaying
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massively for an old pipeline just to pay off the company so they didn't squawk about their proposed
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new pipeline not getting built. It wasn't really for sale, the old pipeline. It was just a way to
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send them $1.2 billion in hush money to get them out of Canada so they wouldn't make a scene.
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It allowed Trudeau to claim to the oil patch that he was very interested in building the pipeline. Sure
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I am, but not to actually have to build it, to preserve some liberal seats in BC or whatever the
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election plan was. Not one foot of that pipeline expansion that twinning has happened, despite the
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$4.5 billion payment. That was just for the existing pipeline. Not one foot of the new pipe has been
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bought. How could it be? It needs another $7, $8, $9, $10 billion anyway. One last question for
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Kenny from Katie Simpson. Do you think that taking this line of attack against the Trudeau liberal
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government is only stoking those frustrations of people in Alberta, people in Saskatchewan as well?
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Is this line of attack against liberals stoking those sentiments of separatism in the West?
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Yeah, don't you see? Standing up for the oil patch, acknowledging its grievances, that's stoking
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Western separatism. No, sister, the West has been stoked. Carbon taxes on its key industry. Three pipelines
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shut down. Energy East, Northern Gateway, and the Trans Mountain expansion. The daily abuse.
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Angus Reid's polling shows that half of all Westerners are interested in leaving.
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They're not necessarily there yet. Maybe not quite half of them, but in each province, they're
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strongly or moderately in favor. Even in Manitoba, 36% think so. So they're interested in separatism.
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Kenny's not stoking anything. Getting a pipeline built, as Kenny wants to happen, scrapping the
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carbon tax, as Kenny wants to happen, that would actually de-stoke separatism. But that ain't
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happening. That ain't happening. Anyways, with Kenny off the line, Simpson could get back to her
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Alberta bashing without any pushback. She started by talking to her kind of Westerner, a left-wing
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activist professor from Winnipeg. Get a load of this.
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Well, I think definitely it's a two-way street here. Alberta's been for a very long period of
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time been benefiting economically off the mere geographical location in which they live.
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Is that why Alberta's wealthy? Just dumb luck? They just happen to be sitting on some oil and
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gas? No hard work, no technology, no risk-taking, no ingenuity. Just happen to be on? Yeah, the
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CBC likes that kind of Westerner. But here's the icing on the cake. CBC went to their Western
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Canada specialist, a liberal journalist in Montreal named Martin Patrican. Listen to this.
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Let's have a listen to what Premier Jason Kenney had to say earlier on the show when I asked
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him about his claim that there is a deliberate policy in play to shut down the oil sands.
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Prime Minister Trudeau himself said he wants to phase out the oil sands, and much of the senior
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political staff in their government worked for organizations in the past that were explicitly
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committed to landlocking Canadian energy. So yes, I do think that it is ultimately their
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intention to, as to quote the Prime Minister, phase out the oil sands.
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So, Liz, okay, I heard, I think I heard, Negan, I heard you react to that. What do you, what
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do you make, what do you make of what, or Marty, it was Marty who reacted to that. Marty, I think
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sounded like a Marty script. That was a Marty. Marty, can I get you weigh in on what do you
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make of what Mr. Premier Kenney had to say there? Stephen Harper intimated the exact same
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thing in saying that the majority of the oil sands have to stay in the ground in order
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for Canada to make any sort of dent in its carbon emissions. Also, to say that Justin Trudeau,
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it's absurd, to say that Justin Trudeau has an active policy to landlock Alberta oil is a
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demonstrable lie. They're literally building or twinning a pipeline right now to get more of
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that oil to the coast. There's this break in logic with this guy. And if we can talk about
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Encana for a second, several business realities. Business goes where business is. Encana is more
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invested in natural gas than it is in oil sands. Encana has more active acreage in terms of fracking
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in the United States than it does in Canada. By moving to the United States, they have access,
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as Marie said, to that capital of the United States. They also go and basically benefit from
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the very boom that is depressing demand for oil, pardon me, for Canadian-sourced natural gas
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right now. So the idea that they're doing this out of spite, out of anything else,
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it's a plain business decision. But in politics, as in journalism, three is a trend. And as Marie said,
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again, Alberta, like Quebec, has this visceral attachment to its things. And Kenny's building
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a billy-pupplet of it. He's using that. And he's saying this absolute patently absurd stuff about
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the Trudeau government not wanting to landlock Alberta oil to mark political. This guy is,
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it's patently absurd. It doesn't make any sense.
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Kenny is so absurd. I mean, it's absurd to say Trudeau's against oil and gas, isn't it? I mean,
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it's absurd. It's absurd to say Trudeau wants to phase out the oil sands. That's absurd.
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I've said time and time again, and you're all tired of hearing me say it, you can't make a choice
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between what's good for the environment and what's good for the economy. We can't shut down the oil sands
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tomorrow. We need to phase them out. We need to manage the transition off of our dependence on
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fossil fuels. It's absurd to say Trudeau wants to phase out the oil sands. Who would say that?
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And you heard the Alberta expert from Montreal, the pipeline is literally being built right now.
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You heard him say that. Really? Really? Because every few months, liberals say, oh, hey, guys,
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we're just any moment now, we're just a little bit more. We're going to totally build that pipeline.
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You bet we will. I mean, every few months they make the same announcement that they're going to
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start building it any minute now. I mean, $4.5 billion. You bet. It never is. It hasn't been.
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It won't be built. Not as long as Gerald Butt is in charge. You know,
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the anti-oil staffer in Trudeau's office. We think that the oil sands have been expanded too rapidly
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without a serious plan for environmental remediation in the first place. So that's why we don't think
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it's up to us to decide whether there should be another route for a pipeline. Because the real
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alternative is not an alternative route. It's an alternative economy.
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Yeah. No. But Patrickan can't believe how absurd and plain old stupid Kenny in Alberta is. I mean,
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the pipeline's being built literally right now. That's what his sources in downtown Montreal bars
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tell him. Yeah. Lest you think this is just one kooky show in the CBC, I want to show you an op-ed
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that the CBC ran online this weekend by that happy fellow there, Raymond Critch.
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Alberta, I get it. You're mad. We've been here before and we're here to help. That's the headline.
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Let me read a bit. But first, here's a pro tip. When someone says we're from the CBC and we're here
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to help, that's the time to hang on to your wallet, guys. This is such an infuriating and gross
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op-ed I'm going to read you. It makes Martin Patrickan look well-informed
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and calm. Let me read some of it to you. Sounds like you guys are pretty mad over there.
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I get it. And as your friend, hi guys, I've let you, I'll let you vent for a minute.
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She says, I've let you vent for a minute. Now we need to talk. I get that you're all pretty pissed off
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that most of the rest of the country didn't vote conservative in the federal election.
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Is that why Alberta is mad? Because Montreal and Toronto didn't vote conservative? Is that why
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they're mad? Or is Alberta mad because Trudeau and his liberals have killed three pipelines?
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Is taxing Canadian oil producers but exempting U.S. and OPEC oil imports from the carbon tax?
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I've literally never heard anyone say, I'm going to separate because Montreal isn't voting
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conservative. That's not a thing. Let me read some more. I hear that, but here's why that happened.
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Ironically, it's probably because I'm a Newfoundlander that I get it. First, most of us have been paying
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attention to the science for a long time now, and we're convinced that climate change is real,
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man-made and potentially catastrophic. You know he's an uptalk. So for a party to act like it's not
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happening seems a little odd. Hey guys, take it from me because I'm a friend and an expert. I mean,
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a liberal lawyer from Newfoundland who would possibly know more about science than him.
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Hey guys, it's catastrophic. So much so that the oil sands have to be shut down. Not Newfoundland's
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offshore oil, mind you. No, no, no. And no tanker ships will be banned off the East Coast.
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Just export tankers off the West Coast, mind you. But take it from me, a liberal in Newfoundland.
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Guys, sorry, but we just have to say, you got to shut down your industry. I mean, science says so,
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okay? Oh, and the child actor says so. How dare you? Guys, it's settled. I'll read some more.
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Second, like most guys, I'm a guy. I've got plenty of friends who are women. I swear I do.
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And a few friends who are gay, lesbian, or transgender. You know that. I'm not lying.
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They're pretty shocked about what's been happening in the States. Some are terrified it could happen
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here. And Andrew Scheer gives them no comfort from that fear. Quite frankly, he scares the crap out of
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them. Well, what exactly? Has Donald Trump banned abortion or something? I wasn't looking.
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In any event, is that why Western separatism is on fire? Because of transgenderism or feminism
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or abortion? I don't think I'm particularly outing anybody. But if we're comparing, I don't know,
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who's more gay or gay friendly. I think Calgary's going to beat St. John's. Alberta's had two women
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premiers to Newfoundland's one. I could go through the list like that, I guess. But it's ridiculous
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because that's insane. It has nothing to do with Western alienation. And this ain't a friend of Alberta
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commiserating. This is concern trolling. This is someone telling Alberta that they're actually bigoted
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and racist and transphobic and sexist and, by the way, stupid and dinosaur-ish when it comes to
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science. This is a long-winded insult, this column, opposing his friendship. I love you guys, but you're
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stupid bigots and science says so. It's a smear. It's a lie. It's bizarre. I'll hazard a bet that this
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author, Raymond Critch, hasn't spent a week in Alberta in his whole life. All right, let me read some more.
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Third, this obsession with tax cuts has got to stop. It's getting to be a fetish.
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Oh, guys. What are you talking about? The fact that Westerners don't want to pay a carbon tax,
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that's not a fetish. That's just not wanting to be taxed with another kind of a GST, a tax on
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everything, especially a tax designed especially to go after Alberta. That's what that, it's not a
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fetish, you weirdo. Here's the biggest, bizarrest lie in the whole piece. My father, a fisherman,
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was the same age I am now, 39, when the Cod Mortorium happened in 1992. 40,000 people working
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in an industry on which our identity was built were out of work overnight because of an environmental
00:19:47.000
problem. Sure, from where we sat, it didn't look like the cod stocks were gone. My family's inshore
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fishing operation in St. John's had seen record catches in the previous years. That said, the
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science was clear, and doing nothing about it was no longer an option. So he's comparing running out
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of fish, as in the resource is gone, which everyone lamented, everyone in the country lamented,
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everyone wished they would come back. And some steps have been taken to try and bring it back.
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He's comparing overfishing with the deliberate, willful decision to kill the oil industry in its
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prime. Because the science is clear, guys. What science? Every day, 100 million barrels of oil
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will be bought and sold, whether it's bought from OPEC or America or Russia or from Canada. It is being
00:20:40.920
bought and sold every day. What is the clear science on shutting down the oil sands and buying
00:20:46.780
oil instead from America or OPEC? Does the science say that's no longer an option? So this is about
00:20:53.320
science, eh? Hey, Albert, I'm sorry you don't like the way you're being abused, but take it from a
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leading scientist at the CBC. Science says you have to lose your jobs. And I know, buddy, but you'll get
00:21:07.880
over your rage. Now come give me a hug because I really like you and I really respect you. And now I'm
00:21:13.880
going to talk down to you a little bit more. So I understand that you're scared and that fear is
00:21:22.840
making you angry. I don't blame you. That said, we can't pretend climate change isn't real anymore.
00:21:30.460
And we can't sit back and not do whatever we can to stop it, guys. That's going to hit you first and
00:21:36.500
hardest. It sucks to be you guys. Oh, man. Don't worry. We need to support you guys while you start
00:21:43.860
to transition away from the boom days of oil and into whatever, you know, whatever kind of economy
00:21:50.380
comes next. May not be pretty, but you know, it sucks to be you, but you won't be going through it
00:21:57.100
alone. I'll be here guys. Hey, you're getting mad. Good. Let it all out. No, you're not mad at me and
00:22:06.580
how rude and stupid and ill-informed and insulting and condescending I am. No, no. You're not mad that
00:22:14.320
the CBC takes your taxes and spends it on idiots abusing Alberta like that. No, no, guys, you're really
00:22:22.880
mad because you're scared. And you're scared because of science. But the science says you have to pay
00:22:29.660
taxes to change the weather. Don't you know that's what science says? Science says so. I love you guys.
00:22:37.060
Sorry it's going to be tough for you. So we'll support you guys. You'll transition away from your jobs.
00:22:45.060
All right. His work's done now. What a good ally he is. Yeah, if I didn't know any better,
00:22:52.580
I'd say the CBC isn't actually working for Trudeau anymore. I'd say they're working for the
00:22:57.320
Western separatists. Because anyone who watched that CBC show or read that CBC article would be
00:23:09.140
Welcome back. Well, as I tell you from time to time, there are so few books these days,
00:23:26.860
especially in Canada, with a freedom orientation or a conservative orientation, that if we ever
00:23:33.360
detect one, boy, we want to tell you about it. And I've got just the book for you today. It's called
00:23:40.040
The Victim Cult, How the Culture of Blame Hurts Everyone and Wrecks Civilizations. And it is written
00:23:50.100
by Mark Milkey, who is a scholar and an activist and a successful author. And I'm delighted to have
00:23:58.460
him join us now via Skype from, you're in Calgary. Am I right, Mark? I am. Thanks for having me on.
00:24:03.920
It's great to see you. Congratulations on the new book. You've written a lot of great books
00:24:09.320
from the taxpayer's point of view in the past. Tell me about The Victim Cult. What's it about?
00:24:17.420
Well, we all know someone who thinks like a victim, right? And they may have been legitimately,
00:24:21.300
you know, hurt at some point in their life, or you may encounter someone who's faking it.
00:24:26.320
But either way, the question is, what do you do with that, right? And the danger is,
00:24:31.120
is that you dwell on the past. But think about victims. I mean, friends, family, people with that
00:24:36.200
psyche, that mentality, where they're always looking to the past, not the future, blaming the past for
00:24:40.560
what's happening now, sometimes not taking responsibility, but then multiply that by millions
00:24:45.500
of people. That's when it becomes dangerous. It's irritating on a personal level. When people engage
00:24:51.620
in kind of a victim psyche themselves, they may harm their own lives if they can't get out of a rut that
00:24:57.360
they're in. And again, they may legitimately have been harmed at some point, and I wouldn't downplay
00:25:01.700
that. But if they don't get past that, and if a society with millions of people think of themselves
00:25:08.100
as victims, then you've got a real problem. And that's where the wrecking civilization aspect of
00:25:13.320
the victim cult comes in. Now, are you talking about people who regard themselves as a victim
00:25:17.880
by reason of race or sex or sexual orientation? Or what do you mean by en masse? Do you mean people
00:25:26.660
who- Well, it can be those. It can be something else. So for example, a couple of chapters,
00:25:33.420
or the introductory chapter in the book, I look at what I call mild, moderate, and murderous victim
00:25:39.460
cults. But let's start with the mild. American college students, for example, and some in Canada,
00:25:44.320
some of the most privileged people in history, though, they often don't know it because they
00:25:48.160
don't know their history. So for example, four years ago, we're just past Halloween. Four years
00:25:52.680
ago, just before Halloween at Yale, there was an email sent out by the administration at Yale saying,
00:25:58.080
be really careful about the costumes you wear this Halloween, right? Don't wear blackface.
00:26:02.220
Our prime minister missed that one. Don't wear this and that sort of costume. Well, some of the
00:26:07.220
students are irritated because this is treating them like children. And they write to one of their
00:26:12.120
masters at Silliman College, which is where some of them live at Yale. And the professor agrees with
00:26:16.880
them, sends out an email actually trying to compliment Yale students and saying, I think
00:26:20.460
you're grownups. I think you know what to dress like. But she gets into a cultural appropriation
00:26:24.640
issues, tries to think through it honestly with students in an email. This thing blows up. A lot of
00:26:30.440
students are offended at Yale. There's a thousand people that march one day around Halloween at Yale
00:26:36.520
four years ago to protest her email and cultural appropriation. One fifth of the undergraduate
00:26:42.100
body. They think of themselves as potential victims of cultural appropriation.
00:26:46.400
And they're at one of the most elite schools in America. They're either rich now or they're about
00:26:50.420
to be rich, but they're culturally powerful, but they love it. That was their Halloween costume.
00:26:55.900
They were dressing up as victims when in fact they're the privileged. I guess that was their
00:27:01.920
former Halloween right there, Mark. Right, exactly. And that's an example of fake victimhood. And I
00:27:08.320
give other examples of that, both in Canada and the United States. But then you get into, you know,
00:27:13.220
people that have been harmed. And how do you think through that, right? So Japanese Americans were
00:27:17.760
harmed. They were interned during the war. I think we were right to compensate them as governments did in
00:27:23.900
the 1950s and again in the 1980s. But there are victim cults that go viral. And this is the dangerous
00:27:29.440
part. So for example, when I did the research, this book took about eight years from beginning to end.
00:27:34.360
I started to do some research and you see this victim psyche throughout history. So most people
00:27:39.940
are aware, I think, if they have any historical literacy of the Germans and what happened after
00:27:45.200
1933 and Adolf Hitler. And they know, for example, the awful evil race theories, the pseudoscience that he
00:27:52.580
got into and how Germany got into that. What they don't know is that Germans thought of themselves
00:27:58.200
as victims long before Adolf Hitler came along, long before World War I and the Versailles Treaty.
00:28:03.740
Germans thought of themselves as victims at least back to the early 1800s. And the interesting thing
00:28:08.780
is they were. They were victims of the French. The French had occupied parts of Germany in the late
00:28:14.200
1700s and early 1800s. Now, after the Germans eject the French from German lands, the problem is that
00:28:22.080
Germans trying to recreate some sort of national identity can't get out of this notion that they're
00:28:26.980
victims. So they think of themselves still as victims of the French. They think of themselves
00:28:31.120
as victims of Jews. They think of themselves as victims of English liberals. They think of
00:28:35.580
themselves. And I take language from Occupy, you know, that could have been taken from Occupy Wall
00:28:40.720
Street. Germans in the 1800s think of themselves as victims of capitalists. So this goes on for more
00:28:47.680
than a century. And of course, Adolf Hitler capitalizes on this in his rise to power in 1933 and
00:28:53.400
beyond. And Germany is a great example, a tragic example, a horrific example of a population that
00:28:59.680
becomes enamored with thinking themselves of victims and refusing to learn from cultures outside of
00:29:05.120
themselves. Well, let's talk about Canada in 2019. Because I know that in the United States,
00:29:12.920
in the democratic primaries, the question of reparations for African Americans, it's a real
00:29:18.480
question. And different candidates are giving their opinions on it. And I like to think that,
00:29:24.080
well, in Canada, we were part of the British Empire, which banned slavery, banned the slave trade,
00:29:29.960
and then later actually sent the Royal Navy out to stop the slave ships. So if anything,
00:29:37.500
we were part of the good guys fighting against slavery before it was cool, hundreds of years ago.
00:29:43.400
So we don't have the same history as the United States and their slave economy. I'm not saying
00:29:51.480
there was never any slavery in Canada, but certainly not the institutionalized on mass slavery of
00:29:56.540
America. But I see some of the reactions to American slavery, like Black Lives Matter,
00:30:03.960
they're being imported into Canada, even though we don't have that same history. And I don't think we
00:30:10.920
ever had significant Jim Crow laws. It just wasn't a big thing. But I think there's so much money and
00:30:20.920
political power and cool associated with the victim cult that we're importing it from places where
00:30:26.840
maybe it was real to places like Canada, where it shouldn't be a thing.
00:30:31.340
Well, precisely. And this is part of the problem is people will reach back and blame present
00:30:36.340
circumstances for what happened 100 or 200 or 300 years ago, or even 1000 years ago.
00:30:42.180
But the question of reparations for slavery is an interesting one in the United States. And I quote
00:30:46.660
Thomas Sowell and others. And you look at the issue and Thomas Sowell says, look, black American families
00:30:52.740
were quite together is the best way to put it in the 1930s began to disintegrate in the 1970s, 1980s.
00:30:59.300
And he says, you can't blame, you know, the breakdown, for example, of the black American family on
00:31:04.340
slavery, because they were, you know, black Americans are doing in terms of family structure,
00:31:09.860
okay, in the 1930s, 1940s, way up until the 1970s. In the case of Canada, you're right, there's been
00:31:16.420
sort of this import of that sort of thinking or that that the importation of that kind of politics.
00:31:21.300
But you also see it in indigenous circles, right, where there's a call for compensation,
00:31:27.300
that sort of thing or restitution. Now, the problem with this is people don't connect the dots.
00:31:32.180
If they look back and say, what happened 50 years ago, or 100 years ago, is why I am in my position
00:31:37.860
today, they make sometimes the wrong link. And in fact, the inspiration for the book came from this,
00:31:43.140
where I saw First Nations leaders, some, not all, but First Nations leaders time and again,
00:31:48.660
make the wrong link. So they look back 50 years or 150 years or 300 years, and say, the reason my
00:31:54.500
particular reserve is poor today is because of that. No, there's a more current reason. It has to do with
00:32:00.580
the geography. As I try to explain in the victim cult, if you look at geography, for example,
00:32:06.420
most First Nations reserves in the country are in the middle of nowhere, or in the north, or both.
00:32:11.540
And they're not close to educational opportunities. They're not close to income opportunities. And
00:32:17.380
therefore, that's why you find poverty on reserves. That's why you find the average,
00:32:22.260
aboriginal income in Canada is lower than others. But the moment you go away from reserves,
00:32:26.740
and you do a comparison, an apple to apple comparison, which I do in the victim cult,
00:32:30.820
I look at those, you know, young aboriginals, ages 25 to 34, compare them to other young Canadians,
00:32:37.060
ages 25 to 34. And guess what? If you have a degree, if you have a diploma, you earn as much
00:32:43.860
as any other Canadian as an aboriginal Canadian. Why? Because you're probably not in reserve,
00:32:49.620
you're likely in an urban center, and you have the same access to education and income and other
00:32:55.140
opportunities as other Canadians. And so there is this notion that we should be compensating
00:33:00.100
for what happened 50 or 100 years ago. And I say, well, no, because you're not your ancestor,
00:33:06.100
for one thing, you're not the person who lived 50 years ago, 100 years ago, who did experience
00:33:10.580
gross discrimination and prejudice, and what I call in the book, apartheid.
00:33:15.140
Right. But that's gone. It really is. There isn't institutional discrimination today against
00:33:20.740
First Nations. What there is, in fact, is sometimes race and gender quotas and other
00:33:25.700
other type quotas that favor, you know, certain groups. So in fact, we've tried rightly or wrongly,
00:33:31.700
in the case of quotas, and other sort of, you know, programs, we've tried to correct for the past. But
00:33:38.020
today, the problem for aboriginal Canadians is not institutionalized racial racism. You might
00:33:44.580
meet an occasional racist in your personal life, but there's no institutionalized racism. It's been
00:33:50.340
abolished decades ago. The problem is still reserved in the middle of nowhere. And when people look back
00:33:56.500
and try and blame the past too often, they actually miss the link. And what that means, tragically,
00:34:01.300
is they won't look for the real cause of their problems today. Or in some cases and other examples,
00:34:05.860
they won't take responsibility for their own lives and their own choices.
00:34:08.820
Yeah. You know, I used to follow a department of the CBC called CBC Aboriginal. It's now called CBC
00:34:15.780
Indigenous. Because I was interested in those stories. I'm originally from the West. I have an
00:34:20.420
interest in entrepreneurial Indian bands, like Chief Clarence Louis was one of my favorite interviews of
00:34:25.700
all time. You got 600 plus First Nations. Some of them are doing some amazing things. I started
00:34:32.740
following CBC Aboriginal. And I had to stop because it was nothing but highlighting bad news,
00:34:43.060
sickness, crime, dysfunction, suicide, welfare. It was, you know, frankly, if someone were racist and
00:34:52.740
were trying to make aboriginal people look awful, I'm not sure how different it would be from the CBC
00:34:59.380
Aboriginal feed, which, and you know, I used to do searches, I should do these again. I checked how
00:35:04.820
many times Chief Clarence Louis of the Osoyoos Indian Band, one of the most successful, wealthy
00:35:11.620
bands in Canada, employs so many people, including non-aboriginals. I compared how many times his name,
00:35:18.340
Chief Clarence Louis, was published in mainstream newspapers compared to
00:35:24.100
the chief from Attawapiskat, the dysfunctional Indian band in Northern Ontario that had a crisis.
00:35:31.780
Theresa Spence was her name. It's almost like the entire establishment prefers
00:35:39.220
Aboriginal folks to be victims, to be poor, to be begging for help, as opposed to the heroes who don't
00:35:46.660
get any ink or air time. It's almost like they have no time for Indians who can live without the
00:35:51.300
government or some other side. I found it very depressing. And this is from the CBC,
00:35:55.620
which claims to be pro-Aboriginal. Well, it contradicts the narrative, I guess,
00:35:59.460
and the assumption. Again, the assumption is often that because of past wrongs, that explains today.
00:36:05.540
Well, it doesn't actually. So I grew up near Kelowna. Same thing as you mentioned about Clarence Louis,
00:36:10.100
the West Bank First Nation, has always been kind of entrepreneurial and capitalist. The fellow who
00:36:15.700
wrote my book, Ellis Ross, now a politician, but he started with his Heisler First Nation as an elected
00:36:23.140
counselor. And I met Ross this past spring. And it was interesting, because again, the book,
00:36:28.260
the inspiration for the book came from looking at some First Nations leaders who keep repeating
00:36:32.180
the same mistakes, keep blaming the past, not learning from Clarence Louis, not learning from Ellis
00:36:39.060
Ross. Well, I heard Ellis Ross speak at an event here in Calgary, and he basically said,
00:36:43.700
listen, I don't think like a victim. Some tragic things have happened, including to his reserve,
00:36:49.060
historically, before, you know, before the reforms of the last couple of decades, especially.
00:36:54.420
So there's no doubt that people in his First Nation historically were victimized. But what he
00:36:59.540
figured out very quickly, he could be angry, and he could want to take revenge. And that was his first
00:37:03.540
impulse, he said. And he writes this in the victim cult in the forward. But Ellis says,
00:37:08.740
I had to figure out, okay, but how are we going to move forward? And what he figured out was,
00:37:13.060
we're on a coast, we can work with natural gas companies, we can get LNG off the shore here,
00:37:19.940
and we can make a lot of money doing so by working with the energy sector. And so Ellis Ross wrote the
00:37:25.860
forward for me. And in fact, he was told, and he tells the story in the forward in the victim cult,
00:37:30.500
that when he was on council, that hides the First Nation, some of his fellow counselors said,
00:37:35.060
in effect, you should take advantage of the fact that your parents went to residential school.
00:37:39.700
And Ellis said, no, I'm not going to do that. Because in their case,
00:37:44.500
they told me, he said, in the speech last spring, where he gave this in Calgary, Ellis Ross says,
00:37:50.420
look, they have a different view of residential schools. And so when I heard him speak, I said,
00:37:55.460
I thought, you know, Ellis, you're probably the perfect guy to write this. And he agrees with me
00:37:58.900
that there's a real danger in getting stuck, because some people were victims of residential
00:38:03.220
schools. But he thinks there's a real danger in making that causal for everything else. And he
00:38:08.980
said to his fellow counselors, and he writes this in the forward in the victim cult, I'm responsible
00:38:13.700
for my life. My problems were not the result of residential schools. They were a result of my own
00:38:19.140
choices, which he changed. And what I love about that is it shows that you have human agency. And I
00:38:24.660
think the danger in the victim cult for a lot of people, again, even if they truly have been victimized,
00:38:29.940
they're not denying that that happens. And it happens every day. The danger for people
00:38:34.740
is they then become stuck. And they think their problems are always someone else's fault,
00:38:40.260
and that they have no choices, and that they can't move forward. I mean, if you are racist,
00:38:44.500
that's the best way to trap people, tell them that they have no choices, that they can only be what
00:38:49.300
others tell them to be. One of the things I do in the victim cult near the end of the book,
00:38:52.900
is I look at the example of early Asian, East Asian immigration to Canada and United States.
00:39:00.820
And what you find is, is there is, you know, horrific discrimination against Chinese Canadians,
00:39:06.100
Chinese Americans, Japanese Canadians, Japanese Americans. But what I do in the book is I look at,
00:39:11.380
at how they dealt with that. They didn't accept discrimination and prejudice. They fought back,
00:39:16.740
they went to court, they tried to talk to politicians whenever they could. Early Chinese Americans,
00:39:21.780
early Japanese Canadians, they fought back. So that was number one. Number two, they also said,
00:39:27.220
look, we're going to do what we can to have a life despite the discrimination and prejudice from
00:39:31.540
white Americans. I specifically look at California and the United States. But early Asian Americans
00:39:37.460
fight back. They also try and be entrepreneurial, and they are. The other thing they do is they
00:39:42.740
constantly aim for integration. They don't give in to the races. And today you hear all sorts of
00:39:48.260
people saying, what we need is a pure culture, pure Aboriginal culture, or pure culture X.
00:39:53.220
And that's what will save us. Don't culturally, don't use my culture, don't appropriate my culture.
00:39:58.900
Early Asian immigrants to the United States and Canada had the opposite view, which is we want
00:40:03.460
to integrate because that's where success is. And lastly, what I found with early Chinese and
00:40:09.220
Japanese Americans, because the statistics were available, you look back as early as the 1920s and
00:40:14.260
the 1930s. And you find Japanese and Chinese Americans, their children attending high school
00:40:21.460
and college and graduating at rates higher than white Americans. And this is happening in the 1920s,
00:40:28.020
when really discrimination and prejudice against Asian Americans is at its peak.
00:40:32.740
So what's the lesson? The lesson is that, look, you don't have to accept being a victim and you don't
00:40:38.500
have to just, you know, and I'm not saying don't fight back. I'm saying do fight back if you're a
00:40:42.500
victim. But for heaven's sake, don't allow someone else to circumscribe your life or the tragic things
00:40:48.260
that have happened to stop you from moving forward. And Asian Americans are a great positive example,
00:40:53.140
as are the early examples here in Canada, Japanese and Chinese immigrants, you know, 1850 onwards,
00:40:58.740
who said we want a different life. And frankly, both groups made Canada and the United States live
00:41:04.020
up to our ideals, right? The life and the pursuit of happiness in the case of the United States,
00:41:08.420
but, you know, a just society and good government in the case of Canada.
00:41:12.260
You know, a lot of the victim mentality, and I would closely connect it to the racism industry,
00:41:20.180
the victim industry and the racism industry, I think is Marxism transposed on other things,
00:41:26.020
not just the, you know, the owners versus the workers. I think, I mean, this isn't my own theory,
00:41:34.020
this is how it's explicitly taught, that the Marxist lens is you've got whites at the top,
00:41:39.860
minorities underneath, straights at the top, gays underneath, men at the top, women underneath,
00:41:45.220
like they're trying to apply that class structure to other identities, and trying to get you to think
00:41:51.460
of yourself as, I'm not a person, I'm a right-handed, blue-eyed, green-eyed, you know, to break you down
00:41:59.300
into irrelevant characteristics. And the trouble with that is it forces you to become either a victim
00:42:08.100
or a bully, and no one wants to be a bully. And I think it's an attempt to gin up trouble where none
00:42:15.300
exists. Just as I think that today's working class is the wealthiest in history, I think in Canada
00:42:22.420
especially, minorities of every sort are doing better than ever in history, and in some measures,
00:42:30.740
and you identified some, are even ahead of the old stock population. I know, for example, women are a
00:42:38.260
majority of university students, especially in medicine. I don't know the stats for visible minorities,
00:42:45.220
but I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's at least at par with the population, maybe even more.
00:42:50.100
We see in places like California, the government's actually discriminating against Asian kids to keep them
00:42:56.100
out. That suggests to me that they're doing very well. I think the whole thing is an industry.
00:43:01.060
I'm drawn to something. In one of my chapters, I actually look at this notion of, okay, is Canada
00:43:07.460
sort of inherently institutionally racist? Well, a lot of the laws against institutionalized racism
00:43:13.460
and even discrimination on gender, you know, were changed in the 1950s. In the case of Ontario,
00:43:18.420
there's laws that begin to be passed that say you cannot discriminate at the workplace. You cannot
00:43:22.660
discriminate, you know, in rental accommodation based on your skin color, for example. This starts in
00:43:28.420
the 1950s. And I think part of the problem with, you know, the victim cults today and the identity
00:43:34.100
politics movement, which are identified in kind of this, this class, you know, this class warfare now
00:43:39.140
overlaid onto identity politics is that people don't know their history and they don't know that
00:43:43.780
actually institutional discrimination began to be wiped away in the 1950s and 1960s. But even,
00:43:49.940
you know, despite that, you know, now 70 years ago, in the case of the 1950s, almost,
00:43:55.780
I mean, you do see evidence of success of groups. I mean, for example, in 1980, I look at the Canadian
00:44:03.220
census, census data. And in 1981, Korean Americans, sorry, Korean Canadians make about 13% less than,
00:44:11.060
you know, old stock Canadians, right? Japanese Americans make 13, Japanese Canadians, rather,
00:44:16.660
make 13% more than mainstream Canadians. Now, this is really odd. I mean, are we discriminating
00:44:23.300
against the society Korean Canadians in 1981? Because their average pay is 13% lower? If we're,
00:44:31.300
if Canada is like a haven of, you know, the nastiest type of bigots from around the world,
00:44:37.300
how does that explain how Japanese Canadians who were heavily discriminated against just decades
00:44:41.940
before, now earn more than the average Canadian 13% more as of 1981? So the data doesn't often support
00:44:49.060
what people think, but somehow there's this institutional hidden racism in Canada.
00:44:54.820
And that really comes from, again, this identity politics movement, the notion of white privilege.
00:44:59.940
I point out, you know, one of the interesting things, and I write about in one of the chapters
00:45:03.860
in the victim cult, is I'm in Hong Kong in 2013. And what do I hear from people who are really not
00:45:11.300
European origin or British, right? They're, you know, they're mostly from, you know, China proper,
00:45:17.380
but of course, emigrated to Hong Kong over the last 150 years, or ancestors had always lived there.
00:45:22.980
I was told in 2013, by politicians and civil servants, and business people, there are three
00:45:28.580
things we want to keep the rule of law, including the British legal code, our anti-corruption efforts,
00:45:33.540
because they were comparing it to China, to Beijing, to the corruption in business and
00:45:37.220
courts and politics in China, and they wanted to keep capitalism. Here was a non-European culture
00:45:43.300
saying, we understand what makes people successful. It's capitalism. It's the rule of law. A British
00:45:49.700
legacy, right? And yet we deal with kind of people who think they're victims of the British still in
00:45:55.060
Canada a century later. I mean, it's kind of crazy, Ezra. We're talking with Mark Milkey. He's the author
00:46:00.820
of The Victim Cult, How the Culture of Blame Hurts Everyone and Wrecks Civilizations. Mark, you mentioned
00:46:06.660
Thomas Sowell at the beginning of our conversation, and I think it was also him who said that reparations
00:46:13.220
are paying money to people who themselves didn't suffer, and from people who themselves didn't do
00:46:22.260
anything wrong. He said it much more elegantly than that. And that's the thing. You mentioned
00:46:27.140
the stats from 30, 40 years ago. You mentioned anti-discrimination laws from the 60s and the 50s.
00:46:33.060
Canada was 95% white back then. Old stock Canadian. I mean, there's Aboriginal folks, but
00:46:43.380
it was extremely white. And that goes to my point about we didn't have slavery like America. So if you
00:46:50.900
have people in Canada today who are minorities, many of them are first-generation immigrants,
00:46:55.860
they weren't discriminated against by Canadians. And by the way, newcomers to Canada now didn't
00:47:04.420
discriminate against Canadians themselves. It's, I really think we're importing fake solutions from
00:47:11.860
other countries. Well, and fake problems. Yeah, no, and fake problems. I mean, there was a, you know,
00:47:17.620
there was a degree of slavery in Canada in the late 1700s, early 1800s. But it actually was attacked
00:47:23.140
by the governor of the day, imitating William Wilberforce in the United Kingdom, who was raging
00:47:29.220
against slavery early on in the late 1700s, early 1800s. Spence, he's a famous British parliamentarian
00:47:35.300
who led the charge against slavery in Great Britain in the late 1700s and early 1800s. And the
00:47:40.900
early governors of Canada long before Confederation picked up on that and began to push back as did
00:47:46.580
some judges in the late 19th and early late 18th and early 19th centuries. So the notion, yeah,
00:47:53.780
there is this, again, this imitation of US politics. Now, the problem though, with compensation
00:47:58.740
arguments, I'm not against all compensation. As I write in the book, I think liberal democracies do
00:48:04.420
on occasion compensate people, right? I mean, you can go to court, for example, if your property is
00:48:09.060
stolen by government and say, that's not fair, I want it back, or I want compensation. That's
00:48:13.700
reasonable. So the question is, who's getting compensated, right? I would say, you know, if
00:48:18.820
you've been harmed by the state or someone else, or your family has, maybe your parents, maybe even
00:48:23.380
your grandparents. But if you go back much further than that, I think it's a real stretch. And that's
00:48:28.580
kind of the problem with compensation arguments for slavery 200 years ago, or maybe what the British did
00:48:33.860
in 1860 in Canada. Racist and prejudiced and, you know, as terrible as some policies were in 1860
00:48:41.460
in this country. Yeah. Theoretically, I could have a claim against the Russians from which I came in 1903.
00:48:48.980
After a while, it's ridiculous. Well, let me ask you, how's your book being received? Because
00:48:54.260
you have an ally. You mentioned the Aboriginal man who wrote the foreword for you. Ellis Ross.
00:48:59.460
Yes. And we talked about other folks who are abandoning the victim mentality. How is your book
00:49:06.900
being received? Has it been denounced by the victim industry? Or are they open minded to it?
00:49:13.220
Well, we'll see. It's just been released. But I can tell you that I've had several editors on the
00:49:17.300
book when I worked with my literary agent, but also the editors on the book near the end. I didn't know
00:49:23.380
any of them. One in particular, for example, was from Lethbridge originally, now lives in Toronto,
00:49:28.820
works for my literary agent. And she was initially skeptical of the book. And she thought, well,
00:49:35.060
is this just kind of a rant? Are you are you blaming the victim? And as she read through it,
00:49:39.620
she wrote me a very nice note and said, Mark, you know, your arguments are very persuasive.
00:49:44.580
Another editor said, you know, look, this is strong stuff. I mean, you're talking a tough issue.
00:49:49.780
But, you know, your compassion comes through. I think they understood that what I was pointing at was,
00:49:55.220
listen, something Alexander Solzhenitsyn said, and I quoted in the introductory part of the victim
00:50:00.180
cult. It's really easy for all of us, no matter our background, no matter ethnicity, like my
00:50:05.060
grandparents suffered. You know, I mean, your ethnicity or your background, rather, as you're,
00:50:10.180
you know, Jewish, I think most people know, I mean, there's no shortage of victims in the Jewish
00:50:14.420
community. And I mean, legitimate, like harmed people, obviously, to put not too fine a point on it,
00:50:19.780
to understate it. So there's no shortage of victims around the world. But what people who,
00:50:24.580
um, I think have read my book thus far, the feedback I get is they get that there's, um,
00:50:30.740
there's a need to say, yes, we recognize some people are harmed, but again, don't get stuck
00:50:35.700
there because then you're your own worst enemy. Then you're there. You're letting the racist and
00:50:40.020
you're letting the bullies of history win. So don't get stuck there. And Alexander Solzhenitsyn also made a
00:50:45.060
very key point that I quote in the introductory part of the book, which is, uh, and Alexander
00:50:50.260
Solzhenitsyn for your viewers that don't know him was a Soviet dissonant fought against communism
00:50:54.900
and was put in a gulag in the second world war because he didn't agree with communism anymore.
00:50:59.940
Um, but have light bulb moments. And one of them was a lot of the people around him thought if only
00:51:05.620
we got rid of those other people who are evil and Solzhenitsyn says, be very careful. The dividing
00:51:11.300
line between good and evil is in our hearts and you got to be really careful. And the problem is
00:51:15.860
even when you're victimized, and I portray the Hutus, for example, in Rwanda, victimized by the
00:51:21.940
minority Tutsis earlier in the 20th century, they come to power. What do they do? They victimize the
00:51:27.460
Tutsis. It leads to a genocide in 1994. Why? Because they thought the problem was in other hearts.
00:51:33.700
And it's important to recognize that good and evil, um, is in all of our hearts. And just because one
00:51:39.300
has been victimized, but especially if one hasn't been, you got to be really careful, uh, not to
00:51:44.740
blame someone else, but perhaps take responsibility for your own choices and believe that you have
00:51:49.140
choices, even if you've been victimized. I mean, it's a, it's a difficult thing to grasp for people
00:51:53.780
or a tough pill to swallow, but I think Solzhenitsyn was right. And I think, uh, I think there's some
00:51:59.540
optimism in that. And I give the, I give the story, if I may, at the end of the book of my grandmother
00:52:03.860
who, you know, was transported around central Europe, starting right around world war one,
00:52:09.140
never got to school, never learned how to read, eventually made her way to Canada in 1927,
00:52:13.940
marries my grandfather. Uh, you know, the, the man who became my grandfather several years later,
00:52:18.660
um, they had some tough, tough things happen to the 1920s and 1930s, but I never remember,
00:52:25.540
I was in Kelowna growing up. They were, they were alive for the first 20 years of my life. I never
00:52:29.540
remember my grandfather or my grandmother complaining about the land they lost, the
00:52:33.620
family members they lost, including my grandmother's sisters, two of them. Um,
00:52:38.180
but they brought the best from the old country. I remember them planting fruit trees and flowers,
00:52:42.660
which they would have remembered from Ukraine, where my grandmother grew up in Poland, where
00:52:46.180
my grandfather grew up. And I remember that for all of their lives, they brought beauty into Canada
00:52:51.380
and it was really terrific. They didn't think like victims, even though they were.
00:52:54.500
Sure. Well, that's a great note to end on Mark. And I hope this book takes off. I hope it is read
00:53:00.980
by those who are tempted, um, to take, I don't even, I'm not even going to call it the easy way.
00:53:06.820
It's maybe the morally easy way to say all the bad things done to me were done by someone else.
00:53:11.860
And let me blame someone. I hope your book's a hit. Uh, it's great to talk to you about it. It's called
00:53:16.580
the victim cult. I think we're going to put this whole interview on YouTube and we'll email it to our
00:53:21.140
subscribers. Cause I think they'll want to see a book like this standing athwart all the other
00:53:26.740
books that propose victimology. It sounds like yours is an antidote. Congratulations to you, my friend.
00:53:32.340
Thank you. All right. There we have it. Mark Milky is an author and I encourage you to check it out.
00:53:37.780
The link below this video takes you directly to the Amazon page where you can get a copy of the book.
00:53:44.100
The ebook Kindle version is $9.99 and the print version, which is 316 substantial pages is $28.95.
00:54:04.980
On my monologue Friday about the Canadian military participating at a Chinese sports competition
00:54:09.620
and Chinese military vets starting an association here in Canada. Robert writes,
00:54:16.180
soldiers of the People's Liberation Army have taken an oath to China. I don't think it expires on their
00:54:20.580
retirement from the military. These people should not be admitted to Canada for residence or citizenship.
00:54:26.340
Well, you're sounding positively like you have a Canadian identity. Who let you in here?
00:54:33.540
Yeah. Do you think Trudeau's going to stand up for a Canadian identity at all, let alone against China?
00:54:38.420
Edward writes, Trudeau's record of secret relations with China should be of concern to not only Canadians,
00:54:45.860
but all of our allies. Yeah, I don't know if you saw over the weekend, Susan Rice,
00:54:51.300
the disgraced former national security advisor to Barack Obama. She said to Canada, if you go with Huawei,
00:54:59.700
that's the Chinese telecom company, to build your 5G networks in Canada, it will basically let the Chinese
00:55:06.820
intelligence services listen in to everything and control and interfere with everything. And that will
00:55:11.940
put Canada in jeopardy in terms of maintaining its preferred security relationship with our other
00:55:18.980
allies, called the Five Eyes. You know, US, UK, Australia, New Zealand and Canada. I don't think Trudeau
00:55:25.220
cared. I think Trudeau would actually welcome joining the Chinese circle of influence. I really think he
00:55:31.780
would. I know that sounds crazy, but show me a single action he's taken to the contrary.
00:55:41.220
I'm so glad you featured and interviewed Gary McHale. This is a brave and eager attempt to make
00:55:46.260
Canadian voices heard, and we should all be grateful to him having the courage to do this
00:55:50.820
on our behalf. Well, we sent our friend David Menzies down to the court in Ottawa today, so I look
00:55:55.860
forward to his report. Look, it's a long shot, and Gary McHale is not a lawyer himself. Private prosecutions
00:56:02.180
are designed for citizens to go to court directly, or with a private lawyer. The odds are against it,
00:56:08.900
but I thought it was worth interviewing him, and we'll have David's full report later. I actually
00:56:12.980
don't know the result of things, even as I record this. Well, that's today's show. On behalf of all us
00:56:19.220
here at Rebel World Headquarters, to you at home, good night, and keep fighting for freedom.