Children in fear due to climate change fear mongering： Here's how to help
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Summary
In this episode, Michelle Sterling from Friends of Science joins me to talk about how climate change anxiety is manifesting in a generation of small children, and who s to blame. She s doing something in her own little way to alleviate those fears in small children.
Transcript
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Hey Rebels, you're listening to a free audio-only recording of my weekly Wednesday night show,
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You can watch or listen whenever you feel like it.
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Tonight my guest is Michelle Sterling from Friends of Science, and we're talking about
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the undue anxiety about climate change manifesting in a generation of small children, and we're
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Adults are making their irrational fears about climate change contagious for children now.
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I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed, and you're watching The Gunn Show.
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Some children find spending time in nature distressing because it can trigger feelings
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of anxiety and despair linked to climate change.
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Friends, that was a very recent headline in the Daily Mail, one of the world's largest
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These troubling emotions and their link to climate change have been studied by University
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of Columbia researchers for the British Psychological Society.
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Children and teenagers were triggered by the natural world and their inability to control
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what was happening to the, quote, unraveling biosphere, the team said.
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However, the good news to come out of the study, though, was that the remedy for this fear
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of the natural world was increased exposure to the natural world.
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There is strong evidence that children are happier, healthier, function better, know more
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about the environment and are more likely to take action to protect the natural world when
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Several studies found that children's connection with nature increased with time spent in natural
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Now, I read this as kids worry less about their effect on nature when they spend time in nature
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and they get to see how resilient nature is, but also kids value nature when they're in
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it as opposed to when they experience it in a book.
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And they're then compelled to become conservationists rather than radical environmentalists.
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Now, joining me today to talk about the issue of adult climate change anxiety manifesting
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in little children and how she's doing something in her own little way to alleviate those fears
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in small children is Michelle Sterling from Friends of Science.
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Joining me now from her home in Calgary is good friend of the show, friend of mine, Michelle
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Michelle, I wanted to have you on the show because you're actually doing something and
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we'll get to that in a little bit in a way that I think you're doing work that nobody else
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is to alleviate some of this anxiety that all the adults are infecting kids with about
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But first, please, because you've done some work on this.
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You've done actually a few videos on the Friends of Science YouTube channel about how kids just
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But I mean, the Daily Mail is one of the world's largest publications.
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I think on some days it is the world's largest publication.
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And this isn't the only article of its kind that I've seen, that some children are finding
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spending time in nature distressing because it can trigger feelings of anxiety and despair
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And the researchers use words like the children are triggered by the natural world and their
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inability to control what was happening to the unraveling biosphere.
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It seems like these studies are designed to elicit a certain response from the kids.
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It's like, you know, a solution in search of a problem.
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Yes, well, that study is, you know, quite a novel thing because this woman reviewed a number
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of different pieces of research that are out there.
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And these are all quite diverse pieces of sociological research on children's perceptions of nature.
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And most of the thrust of the paper seems to be trying to incorporate the idea that if you love
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You'll be kind to pets and animals and such like.
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And there's a lot of talk in there about how spending time in nature makes one feel at one
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And one of the interesting things is that one of the studies she mentions had a survey of
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And so because children can't really talk at that age, they kind of use their parents as
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So, you know, what are you really trying to ascertain from a two and a half year old who
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can't speak and has no greater understanding of the world?
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You know, a child who when their mother or father leaves the room, they often will start
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crying because their parent is gone and they don't quite understand that they're just in
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You know, so you're surveying people who have no sense of the complex world and yet trying
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to draw some conclusions about how they feel in nature.
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One of the other things I found quite interesting is that one of the surveys found that children
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as young as five are afraid of the world getting too hot.
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So, you know, you start to question, what have we inculcated in the very smallest children
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And then they wonder why they're afraid to go into nature.
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I think it's quite evil to do this to young children.
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I think young children need to live with hope for the future and not fear that they're in
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I mean, if a doomsday cult did this to children, we would call it child abuse.
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But when the environmental movement does it, we say, OK, well, it's a legitimate psychological
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disorder, this anxiety that kids are experiencing.
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Now, you have actually been sort of on the forefront of trying to undo what I would call
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the Greta Thunberg effect, this amplification of children's role on the front lines against
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I mean, Greta Thunberg is telling children that not only is the world going to end because
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of your parents, but if you do not, if it is to be saved, it must be saved by the children.
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I think that's a horrific responsibility to put on kids.
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But you've been actually doing your best to undo this through a series of videos like you
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have a video, popular video over on the Friends of Science YouTube page that says, I don't want
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And you break down the climate exploitation of children.
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Well, I don't want to die stems from a mother in Toronto whose child was at school.
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And I think it was the 3% project that came in.
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And they showed, you know, how catastrophically the world is going to end to a group of children.
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They were children were being funneled in and out of the library for this presentation.
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And, you know, a lot of the kids were like, I don't want to die.
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So this very brave mother went to the press and got a story published about it, exposing
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And I don't think that parents are really aware of the kind of influence that's going
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And I guess in one sense, we can see that with the We Charity thing blowing up, where
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people finally realize, wait a minute, our kids are being indoctrinated in schools by people
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And that's what we see with the whole Greta Thunberg thing, where behind her are a group
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of green billionaires who are pushing carbon offset trading.
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Native advertising is sort of a recent development in advertising where a sponsored article appears
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in the news as if a credible editorial article sanctioned by, you know, a newspaper and written
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by journalists when it's really a sponsored thing.
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So Greta is perceived as a real citizen, you know, traveling the world with her message.
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But actually, behind her are people who own Time Magazine, people who own a big ad agency,
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people who are running a social engineering, social media platform with when they started
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with their IPO, they had 100 million users, you know, that that's, that's the kind of power
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Um, and actually, left wing journalist and author, Corey Morningstar has written lots and
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She's done fantastic research on this whole sort of capitalist, green crony capitalist movement
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And, you know, how people are just being incredibly duped by it all.
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But it's, it's really tragic, because we have children who are terrified now of nature,
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of their future, existential doom is very high.
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I was reading a report the other day, um, about a child in, uh, in, I think it was in
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Australia, who was suffering from a climate delusion.
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They almost died from not drinking water, because they thought if they drank more water,
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um, it would prove, it would mean that Australian bushfires would be out of control, you know,
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So when you take small people, and you give them these impressions, it can just go right
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to the, um, nth degree with them, and they don't have a context to make better sense of
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it, especially if their parents are also, you know, eco nuts.
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Yeah, especially if this is the world in which children live, and it's hard for kids to escape
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it, even if they have reasonable parents, um, the schools are completely infected with this.
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This is, this, this climate doom and gloom, it's the common parlance of science in school.
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Um, and so, it's hard for even good parents to prevent their children from becoming contaminated
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Right, and, and also in schools, as noted in this paper in a number of these studies, um,
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you know, when you and I grew up, or, or say your kids living out on the farm, you know,
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We used to go sit under a tree and watch the ants, you know, we used to go into the backwash
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We used to watch our dog being chased around by a coyote and chasing back.
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You know, these were like normal things for us.
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Um, the, the way to spend an afternoon was to go for a walk in the woods or a walk in the
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So, yes, there is a fear of nature on the one hand, because it's very big.
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And I think that that's actually, you know, a common theme in Canadian literature and art.
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If you go back to, say, the, um, uh, the group of seven, and you look, I call them the lucky
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seven, but when you look, you know, their art, nature is very stern and imposing and threatening.
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Um, and when you think of the vast expanses here, yes, it can be very threatening.
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But when you grow up in nature on a farm or when you go camping and hiking, then you learn
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to live with nature and enjoy it and be prepared for those fearful things.
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But what schools are doing now, and according to many of the things in the study, many of
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the papers in this study, you know, they're just using nature trips as a means of pushing
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So you're not actually teaching kids to enjoy nature and just observe it and be there and
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You have this end game that you want to impose upon them that, you know, completely, um, detracts
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You know, it's funny how you, um, as you were speaking about the group of seven, I thought
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about how sometime in the last 50 years, we, the switches flipped as human beings, especially
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And I think especially because of our, just our geography, the size of our country, the
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kind of, uh, climate in which we live, um, we realized that nature could be dangerous and
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it was foreboding and much bigger than us, um, something that we could barely dream to
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And now, according to environmentalists, nature is something to be feared, but not because
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we, we can't control it, but because we do control it by our behavior.
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Um, just as you were speaking of that, I was thinking of the Jack London story, uh, to
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Um, I think it's really worth people reading that, especially city people who, you know,
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It's like, read this old time story of a prospector who goes alone with his dog into the woods,
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And along the way, um, he falls into the stream, gets soaked.
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He's got a few matches, but he doesn't succeed.
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And, you know, when you read that, you understand that humans do live on this edge with, um, the
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climate and with the environment that we're in.
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And the only thing that has saved us from that is our ability to move technology forward,
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to understand engineering, to create all the many wonderful comforts that we have, like
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an insulated house, you know, cause people used to live in a hut, but, um, but along the
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Like when you see historic images, people painting pictures of flowers and trees and
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landscapes, there's obviously a great sense of joy and glory and wonder that goes along
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with the fact that they lived in very difficult and fearful times.
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That especially urban people are so separated from the realities of survival that they can
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only see nature as a means to a climate change narrative rather than seeing themselves as
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Now, moving on to, um, I guess the flip side of this debate about, you know, kids being infected
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with, uh, climate, uh, climate anxiety, there are some young people who are actually being
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infected by climate realism and they are being attacked by the liberal media.
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Um, and it's funny to see the liberal media, um, complain about our side of the debate using
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words like climate realism to describe how we feel about climate change.
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When they insist that we should use words like climate denialism.
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And so it's funny to hear them get angry because we don't use the words that they think are
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accurate when they're the ones who started off with global warming, then it was climate change,
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then it was, uh, climate weird, weirding, whatever it is, global weirding, global weirding.
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I mean, like they are constantly shifting the words to fit what's going on or what isn't going
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And yet when we say we're just realists, we probably think that humans do affect the environment
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around them as anything within an environment would, but we don't think it's a catastrophe
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And when we have kids step up and say, I refuse to be a worry wart, they get attacked by grownup
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And I thought liberal journalists were against that sort of thing.
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There's recently an article in the New Republic where, um, uh, Giulio Corsi and, uh, Stella
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Levantisi, uh, Giulio is, um, PhD student at candidate at, uh, Cambridge university, which
00:19:21.340
Um, and he and Stella, who's a journalist in Italy, uh, um, joined forces to write a polemic
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against Naomi site, uh, because they say, well, her, um, realism is actually the new form
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And then they also mentioned us as the notorious deniers, friends of science.
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Of course, this, uh, fabulous PhD candidate researcher didn't even bother to contact us
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to ask us what our, uh, perspective is on climate change.
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He just assumed it from the smog blog and the smog blog is of course set up by an Al Gore
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So this is a very improbable, uh, source of impartial information.
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So, um, yeah, they just went after Naomi, uh, for, um, you know, not accepting the alarmist
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viewpoint for being a denialist and went after us.
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And, and, you know, so I wrote an article on medium, um, on the blog medium, you know,
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talking about climate dogma versus scientific inquiry.
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Like if these people are investigative journalists and PhD candidates, why wouldn't they look into
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Why wouldn't they interview some of the people whose references she refers to and see whether
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or not she actually has, uh, any value to her position?
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Um, so it's, it's, um, you know, it's, uh, funny to see that people at universities, um,
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not only no longer value academic freedom, they actively try to suppress freedom of speech
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So what, what is the world going to come to, you know, when we're raising children who are
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afraid of nature and afraid to ask questions and terrified that the world will end.
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And they're ending up as PhD candidates in, uh, what used to be one of the top universities
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in the world, you know, writing a, a bullying name calling article to smear a 19 year old young
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woman who happens to think for herself, you know, she should be at Cambridge.
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I read that, um, new Republic article and I got the same sense that I got when I was reading
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through the article about the nature studies causing dis and nature causing distress in kids.
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It was very clearly an article written and the conclusions had already been drawn before
00:22:09.260
And, um, you know, it's pretty clear when they don't reach out to the other side, they
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They, they don't care how, uh, you want to represent yourself.
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They just care about their vision of what you had to say.
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And even if they reach out and disagree with us, you know, but state what we think, and then
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you can counter it in any way you want, but, uh, at least have that courtesy and journalistic
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integrity to, uh, find out from the actual source rather than relying on what is obviously
00:22:53.000
We've talked about the problems of the anxiety.
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I want to now talk about the solutions that you're sort of bringing forward.
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You've done a two videos now that are sort of geared towards smaller children.
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Um, I think my daughter is going to love seeing the little bunny family that she has in her
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bedroom featured in a video that you have done called, uh, the tiny rabbit family.
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And you've written a book, you're turning the second video into a book.
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Um, I couldn't be happier that there's somebody out there who is just giving kids the straight
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facts about nature, about the environment, um, without any sort of ideology, except an ideology
00:23:46.640
And that's really, really, you know, kind and, and, uh, supportive, uh, cause we, of
00:23:55.280
Uh, but I, you know, the main thing is, uh, for me, I want to help calm people down.
00:24:02.660
First of all, um, I also did a video review of, uh, Margaret Klein Solomon's book, uh, um,
00:24:14.100
I think it's called anyway, uh, you know, she's the clinical psychologist behind the
00:24:18.480
whole idea of your house is on fire, our house is on fire.
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Um, uh, so I want to first try and help people calm down and then secondly, offer them just
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That's not loaded with facts and not loaded with fear, but just something that opens that
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door and gives people an opportunity to think, oh yes.
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You know, and in the tiny rabbit family, we basically have, um, the little boy contemplating
00:24:49.560
And then he ends up in a kind of a dream sequence going on a tour of the universe with his family
00:24:54.980
or not the universe, the solar system with his family.
00:24:58.260
And they realize how big the sun is, you know, cause lots of people say, oh, the sun isn't
00:25:04.840
Well, it's a big factor in climate change and people usually go along with that theme
00:25:11.020
that it's not because they have no idea how big it is in proportion to the earth.
00:25:15.600
It's true that we're very, very far away from the sun, but when you see the scale and ratio,
00:25:23.220
So I'm just trying to set a little bit more context for people, give them, as you say,
00:25:33.200
Um, you know, in, um, a paper that came out a couple of years ago and you and I did an interview
00:25:41.000
And it was, uh, by, uh, uh, Wins and Nicholas and they were the people who came up with the
00:25:48.820
grand idea that you could save the planet by having one less child, you know, and then,
00:25:56.980
Well, you know, actually one of those big container ships puts out the equivalent pollution
00:26:02.500
of like 50 million cars, the equivalent CO2 emissions of 20 million cars.
00:26:08.280
So you going vegan or not having a child is not going to save the planet.
00:26:12.760
Uh, like these big industrial emitters, that's where the challenge is.
00:26:17.260
If you accept the thesis of global warming, and even if not, you should certainly look
00:26:23.320
at the pollution from some of these large emitters.
00:26:29.260
We've really reduced pollution here, um, noxious pollutants, but that's where the challenge
00:26:37.080
And it's something that we can address with technology, but you not having a child or you
00:26:41.720
turning children into a carbon footprint instead of a person, that's not where you're going
00:26:47.820
Um, you know, and it's sick and it really leads to, I think, children starting to think,
00:26:53.700
Hey, you know, A, I should never have been brought into this world.
00:26:59.100
I listened to an interview on the New Republic by Emily Atkin.
00:27:03.620
And this common theme that I should not bring children into the world in a climate constrained
00:27:09.640
Well, people were thinking that about nuclear warheads back in the sixties.
00:27:12.820
You know, they got over it, but of course that was not pervasive as it is today with
00:27:19.240
And, you know, in that interview, it's so depressing because they're talking about children as if
00:27:25.340
Um, and the one host is actually saying, well, I, I actually have a child, you know, waiting
00:27:32.840
for these other two who don't have children and aren't going to have them like jump on
00:27:38.080
And he says, you know, and Ashley, we'd like to have another child because we don't want
00:27:54.440
Sometimes they're trouble, but you know, most of the time they're just really the grandest,
00:27:59.980
um, uh, experiment that a person could ever be involved in.
00:28:05.180
And it's, it's a miracle that children come into this world.
00:28:08.880
We still are not very clear on how this magically happens.
00:28:12.920
We know the process, but we, you know, we can't control that either.
00:28:17.180
So, uh, it's a terrible, terrible, terrible thing that we're doing to children's psyche.
00:28:24.440
Now, Michelle, can you tell us where people can get your first book?
00:28:30.920
Um, because I was shocked to learn that you wrote a children's book.
00:28:33.300
You didn't tell me, and, uh, you are turning the, uh, the rabbit family into a book also,
00:28:39.740
but tell us about the, the first book that came up.
00:28:42.740
Uh, the first kid-friendly climate tale book is, uh, about the little hedgehog family.
00:28:48.640
And, uh, basically we just took the video that we did and turned it into a book, but the video
00:28:53.960
is sort of like the little girl hedgehog waking up in the middle of the night in a nightmare,
00:28:59.340
you know, dreaming of all the doom and gloom that Greta has imbued her with.
00:29:08.640
Little brother comes running in and he is afraid of Greta too.
00:29:11.660
And then dad shows up and he's like, what's going on?
00:29:14.560
You know, and realizes that these fears have just, um, mushroomed far beyond reality.
00:29:20.180
So he, he, he treats it like the monster under the bed, you know, like I'll show you where,
00:29:26.200
what the climate change monster is and like flips the bed over and there's nothing there.
00:29:30.580
So, you know, it's just a very simple way of trying to say, look, this is way out of proportion.
00:29:39.160
Come back down to earth and, you know, climate change is real, but it's something that goes
00:29:47.480
on every day and has gone on for 4.5 billion years and will continue to go on.
00:29:56.420
The name of the book and where people can get it?
00:29:58.860
Um, I can't remember the name of the book off the top of my head.
00:30:09.780
I'll get, uh, my producer to show a, uh, a page of the book so that people know.
00:30:16.500
Don't ask me the byline or not the byline, but the, the, uh, title of the Suzuki book.
00:30:24.600
I'm always struggling to remember, um, what kind of mean thing I said about, uh, David Suzuki.
00:30:31.680
Um, Michelle, how do people support the work that you do at Friends of Science?
00:30:36.120
Because you're not a big operation, um, but you're one of maybe two or three organizations
00:30:42.280
in the entire country doing the kind of work that you're doing.
00:30:48.860
Uh, you can go to our main page and there's a little membership donate button in the corner,
00:30:56.020
Um, maybe if you're strapped for cash, that doesn't work for you.
00:30:59.620
So you can share our stuff, um, watch, learn, talk with your family and friends.
00:31:06.020
And, um, you know, overall, I would say we need to calm the climate hysteria down and we
00:31:13.940
need to advocate for sensible, uh, affordable, uh, due diligence on climate and energy policies
00:31:22.300
and, and make sure that, uh, these very large ENGOs are not out of control.
00:31:27.620
I wanted to mention, we just released a report called Dark Clouds of Conflict of Interest.
00:31:33.240
And I don't think people realize that there's a, an amassing of power in the ENGO community
00:31:41.180
that is beyond compare to anything of the electorate or Canadian Taxpayers Federation
00:31:47.580
or any of these little groups that support the oil sands.
00:31:50.540
Um, and they're advocating for a climate accountability law, which we don't need.
00:31:57.760
But if it were implemented, it would completely devastate, devastate our economy in Canada.
00:32:04.000
Um, so we've got this new report called Dark Clouds of Conflict of Interest.
00:32:08.420
And if you think the sort of billion dollar, we charity scandal was a problem for taxpayers,
00:32:14.760
you need to look at this and see what kind of billions of dollars they are planning to spend.
00:32:21.820
And, um, uh, you know, part of that, they're, they're advocating for a $210 a ton carbon tax.
00:32:30.700
So think what that'll do to your home economy and to this country.
00:32:38.440
Well, Michelle, I want to thank you so much for coming on the show,
00:32:41.060
for being this beacon of calm in a world of climate hysteria.
00:32:45.720
Uh, I wish you the best of luck on the new book, um, whatever that title will be.
00:32:56.060
I like to call what is happening to the world's children, the Greta Thunberg effect.
00:33:08.860
The privileged, hectoring teenage climate activist has told children that not only is their world ending,
00:33:16.420
but if it were to be saved at all, it must be saved by them.
00:33:22.120
And her voice, it's been amplified by teachers and politicians and especially the media.
00:33:28.240
It's creating a neuroses in a generation of children and everybody involved should be absolutely ashamed of what they've done.
00:33:36.000
Children deserve the facts in a way that they can understand,
00:33:39.300
but they also deserve to be raised with a sense of hope and not fear and hopelessness that the climate activists want them to have.
00:33:47.900
This all so that the climate activists can mobilize these children into an army for change.
00:33:58.360
I'll see everybody back here in the same time, in the same place next week.
00:34:01.840
And remember, don't let the government tell you that you've had too much to think.