City of Calgary's out-of-control spending on employees was uncovered, then ignored
Episode Stats
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Summary
William MacBeth from Save Calgary joins me to talk about how much Calgary City Council and Mayor Naheed Nenshi are costing the city of Calgary, Alberta, a lot of money, and why it's time for the city to do something about it.
Transcript
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Hello Rebels, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed and you're listening
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to a free audio-only recording of my Wednesday night show, The Gun Show.
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However, you can watch or listen to it whenever you feel like because we're on the internet
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Now tonight my guest is my friend William Macbeth from Save Calgary.
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Looks like Calgary's ultra-progressive mayor is on Santa's naughty list.
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I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed and you're watching The Gunn Show.
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Look at this report as published, first in the Calgary Herald, but as penned by the folks
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A property that started with a $3,500 tax bill in 2006 but was subject to inflation-only
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increases since 2007 would receive a bill this year for $4,001.
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Instead, the bill is $4,802, an $801 difference.
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Well, besides wasting it on art and novelty positions like a climate change officer, Calgary
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City Council members and bureaucrats have been giving themselves a golden parachute when
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they retire or get unelected for, I don't know, about 50 years now.
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Joining me now to explain how much of Calgary City Council and especially Mayor Naheed Nenshi
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have put themselves on Santa's naughty list for their wasteful ways in 2019 is my friend William
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Macbeth from Save Calgary in an interview we recorded yesterday afternoon.
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Joining me now from his home in Calgary is my friend William Macbeth from Save Calgary.
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You know, people, we were just talking off air, people say, Sheila, you're always ragging
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on Calgary, why don't you give Edmonton a hard time?
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I feel like Edmonton's a lost cause and generally I'm a hopeful person, but I feel like Edmonton
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is, at least at the municipal level, so progressive and William, you made a great point that their
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mayor has like a Trudeau vibe, he's young and attractive, no offense to Nenshi, but he's
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And I feel like there's hope to save Calgary from Nenshi and I'm not sure that we could
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We've got so much to talk about when it comes to Calgary municipal politics.
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I think the biggest thing right now, and it's like stories coming out every minute about
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the mystery bonuses happening at Calgary City Hall.
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Please fill us in about this because the more I read about it, the more outrageous it is.
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You know, it's funny, it started off as something fairly, you know, something fairly understandable,
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but the more we've learned about it, the stranger the situation has become.
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So unlike almost, I think, any other jurisdiction in Canada, when you leave your job, either as
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a city employee or as a city councillor, there's this special golden handshake you get from taxpayers.
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It's based on how long you've been employed there or how long you've been a city councillor.
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But what's funny is nobody can actually recall a city council authorizing this extra retirement bonus
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So they did digging, and it's discovered that this is something that's been going on in Calgary for 55 years.
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For 55 years, we've been paying people who are retiring from their jobs at the city or choosing
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not to run again for city council or who voters kicked to the curb after an election from city council.
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It's unparalleled as far as we can tell in any other jurisdiction, and it's an unconscionable
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Okay, let's stop and just fill people in about the amount.
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And if you look at city council, it's two weeks for, I think, every year you've been on city council.
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So someone like Councillor Jones, who's been here since the Victorian era, well, he's going to get
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And that's on top of his very generous taxpayer-funded pension that he's also getting.
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So they're the highest-paid city council in the land.
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They get the best pension of any city council in the land.
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And now they get a, you know, $100,000 golden handshake when they finally decide to stop
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And that's, of course, in the middle of Calgary facing the worst economic crisis we've faced
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So the fact that there are skilled councillors trying to defend this, you know, trying to
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keep their snout so firmly in the trough of the taxpayer's money, well, it's only because
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it's out of self-interest and it's absolutely outrageous.
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I mean, like you point out, this is the worst economic downturn in at least a generation.
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And it's firmly on the backs of taxpayers to keep all of this afloat.
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And why can't they just say, in the interest of shame, like just the fact that the public
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now knows about this, shame should prompt them to end this.
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Well, I've enjoyed some of the things I've heard from Calgary Council.
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One of them said it might be hard to attract really quality people to city council if we
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take away some of the lavishness of being a city councillor.
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And I thought to myself, well, if this is who we're getting under the current system, I
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don't think the current system is doing that great a job of attracting top talent.
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Others have argued that it would be unfair to switch a system midstream because people
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will have been planning for this massive payout coming at the end of the term.
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If you're sitting on city council and you decide not to run again, well, that's your
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Surely you should have planned for the day that this would happen and made arrangements
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The fact that you're the highest paid city council means you should be banking some of
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The alternative is voters have decided you did a terrible job and they no longer want you
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And in that case, why would we give a bonus to someone the voters just fired?
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I don't see a scenario where this payout makes sense.
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Now, for city employees who also get this special retirement perk, it isn't as generous
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as those facing city councillors, but it's still hefty, five figures in some cases.
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Well, they're already very generously compensated and they get a full index link pension and they
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No other job just pays you an extra sum of money because they like you.
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Especially when it's coming off the back to taxpayers who are already struggling with
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property tax increases, higher fees and levies and the worst economy, certainly in my memory
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You know, it's happening at the municipal level.
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It's also happening at the provincial level where we have these government workers who are
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just so insulated from the reality facing the people who are actually paying their salary.
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It paints such a picture of how really out of touch they are and how insulated they've
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I mean, in one of my former jobs before being laid off, I had to take the salary cuts.
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That's just what the company had to do in order to keep, you know, in order to protect
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When that no longer became possible, we were, you know, laid off and it was difficult.
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And that's the pain that I think a lot of families here in Calgary and all across Alberta are
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And then to see civil servants paid for by tax dollars complaining that they won't get
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a large enough salary increase this year or that through things like attrition, we're
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going to try and reduce the size of the government's bureaucracy.
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Well, for them, they just consider that the thin end of the wedge.
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And I just don't I don't think any Albertan could really wrap their head around how out
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of touch that seems, because for them, we're just happy if we still have work, if we can
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still pay our bills, if we can still keep our houses and keep roofs over our heads, let
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alone are we asking for salary increases during these tough times.
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So, no, I think and I think it's creating a lot of resentment on the part of voters who
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are scrimping and saving and pay their tax bills to then see these out of touch elite
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Now, let's talk to or let's talk about something else.
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Now, Nenshi, he's got this constant grind going with the provincial government who, you
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know, the provincial government is moving towards what the left calls austerity.
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I would call it financial responsibility and care with taxpayer dollars.
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And he's currently in a bit of a fight with the municipal affairs minister.
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And I think this is the first time in a generation we've actually seen a municipal affairs minister
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who's actually trying to do things in the interest of municipal taxpayers.
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And, you know, our mayors of our big cities are sort of shocked by it.
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And I think people need to understand, you know, the difference between some of the previous
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provincial governments and the one they have now.
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And I'll say out of fairness, both NDP and before them PC governments who were kind of
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So both of those former governments were well on their way to giving cities like Calgary and
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Edmonton special new taxation powers, the ability to create a Calgary sales tax.
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Everything you buy in Calgary would have an extra tax put on the ability to raise more
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These are things that were seriously being considered by previous governments under this
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He has said Calgary is already taking in well more than it needs to run its operation.
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Minister Madhu called Calgary city councilors spending freaks.
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Sorry to interrupt you, but I just had to put that marker down.
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I mean, for these people, we just went through a budget cycle where, once again, Calgary raised
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They are raising taxes on property, on homeowners by 7.5%, on businesses by 20, 30, 40%, even
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though those businesses are already struggling.
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Because they couldn't agree on a package of spending cuts in order to preserve or hold
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And it makes you ask the question, are we really only spending money on super critical
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And a cursory look at how they spend their money indicates, no, we're not.
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They're implementing more bike paths at a cost of millions of dollars.
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They have an entire climate change division, despite the fact that Calgary is not a coastal
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city and does not face the risk of rising ocean levels.
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We have a mountain range between us and the nearest ocean.
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We spend money on public arts that is an embarrassment to the citizens of this city.
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And all of these things we ask ourselves, why can't we save some money by being a little
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bit less generous on some of those, quote unquote, nice to have, while protecting things
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like fire and police services that keep our citizens safe?
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These councillors would just rather keep hiking taxes year after year than ever have an honest
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conversation about spending, and Minister Madhu has called him out on it.
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You have built a government that is too expensive for your taxpayers to afford.
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And I guess we'll see what happens in this ongoing war of words.
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But I have to say that for the first time in a long time, I feel that those of us on the
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anti-tax, better spending side have a real new champion in Minister Madhu.
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And he's been one of my favourites since the campaign.
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And he's working out to be absolutely fantastic.
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And, you know, just his concern for municipal taxpayers, because really, municipal taxes,
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I mean, when you fill out that municipal tax check, that's a huge chunk of money.
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And it's the tax layer that affects you most first.
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You know, if you're writing that big check, and there's a pothole at the end of your driveway
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that'll knock the earrings out of your ear, you wonder what happened to your money.
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And I'm so happy to see Minister Madhu just ripping it up and taking on these out-of-control
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Next thing I want to talk to you about, Calgary Herald had an article about garbage bin snooping.
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So, you know, it's funny, Calgarians pay extra for the privilege of the city to come pick
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Now, in many cities, that's why you pay property taxes is to get basic affordable services like
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But in Calgary, you pay extra, you pay between $20 and $40 a month to have the garbage sometimes
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So what the city has decided is Calgarians aren't abiding closely enough to the very stringent
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What goes in which bin at what time and place in what distance from your house and all of
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And so first they used to leave no, no, no, which was just basically instead of picking
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up your garbage, they slap a little note on your garbage bin telling you exactly why
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they wouldn't pick up your garbage that week, which, of course, since you paid for it, is
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They pay people $200,000 specifically to go rifling through your trash to make sure you
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So there will now be bureaucrats rifling through your trash to see if you're following the rules,
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And frankly, I don't know if I want city of Calgary staff burrowing through my garbage
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to see, you know, my phone bill or my visa bill or something like that, personal information
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that I've thrown out and expect to be treated as garbage and put into some sort of landfill
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Why spend money on infrastructure or on priority services like fire employees when we could pay
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I can think of nothing more horrific to a municipal taxpayer than paying some overpaid
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bureaucrat to behave like a raccoon and go through your personal paperwork.
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How does this really make the system more efficient?
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It seems like it's a make work project to punish taxpayers.
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And we know the recycling program at the city of Calgary is completely broken.
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Their argument is that one of the things that makes recycling so expensive is the fact that
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people aren't doing a good enough job pre-sorting their trash, you know.
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So there's contamination is the word I think they use to talk about recycling.
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But the entire recycling industry has become, you know, just a farce here in Calgary.
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We force the recycling of things like plastic, which is difficult to recycle.
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We are keeping it in warehouses that are heated and protected, you know, keeping plastic garbage
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safe and warm and dry because there's nobody out there who wants to recycle it.
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And we're doing that with so many things because there isn't capacity to recycle all of the
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At some point, we may have to say this isn't working.
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We can't endlessly afford to house garbage in its own affordable housing complex.
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So I'm hoping that, you know, this latest act on the part of the city raises enough
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ire that maybe some councillors will be brave enough to ask the administration some hard
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At this point, I think we have to look at more viable options like either increased
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landfills or incineration and just really start to deal with this problem rather than
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Now, tell me, there's controversy going on in Calgary about reworking the boundaries for
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Some councillors are calling it, I believe the word they use is gerrymandering.
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What's the problem with rejigging the boundaries?
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Well, it is true that something weird is happening down at City Hall when it comes to ward boundaries.
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So if you look at how other jurisdictions handle this, whenever they feel the need to
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redraw riding boundaries because of population growth or because things have materially changed,
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some places, of course, have more people moving into them than others.
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So they have an arm's length process that is independent from politicians who decide ultimately
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At Calgary, there is a citizen committee who provides a recommendation, but then councillors
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themselves actually make the final call and oftentimes reject what the Independent Citizens
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Committee has recommended and redraw the line themselves.
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I mean, already, if you look at, you know, Calgary as an example, no incumbents lost their
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Now they want to be able to draw the lines around their little groups of supporters and
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say, OK, these are the people who will vote for me in the next election.
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I say, look, if you want to just rig the election, be honest about it and just go rig it.
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Don't pretend this is anything other than your own political self-interest doing what's
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good for city councillors rather than what's good for voters.
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And I'm worried that not enough people are aware that it's happening, that council will
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get away with this, with basically this attack on democracy because not enough people will
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You just can't decide that you can rig the system so that you can be elected forever.
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I mean, why would you even bother having the citizens vote?
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The last thing I wanted to ask you about was recall at City Hall.
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The Canadian Taxpayers Federation has introduced this.
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It's got a very wild, rosy feel, which appeals to me.
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You know, I think if you look at the polling that's come out, uh, city council's approval
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Very few people actually approve of the job being done by their elected city council.
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And I think it's, it's the case of buyer's remorse on the part of a lot of voters, because
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All of these incumbent councillors are almost all of them will present themselves as being
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They'll talk about treating tax dollars with respect.
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They'll talk about wanting to keep more money in the voters' pockets.
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Uh, they'll make sure their lawn signs are blue because everybody knows that lawn sign
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So that's how they present themselves during an election.
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But once the vote's over and they get back to City Hall, they're big spending liberals to
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And so, you know, I think voters say, well, look, you told me and I voted for you because
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you said you were going to cut my taxes or hold my, hold the line on taxes.
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You were going to get me better value for money.
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And now I think maybe recall would give voters the ability to express their frustration democratically
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You know, even if someone doesn't get actually recalled, the fact that the provision is there
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may be enough to force some of these city councillors to listen a bit more closely to what their
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voters are telling them, to the opinions their voters are expressing because of the fear
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I give credit, and I don't do this often, to Ward 7 councillor Drew Farrell, who ran as
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a socialist and behaved exactly like that while in office.
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So I don't like it, but at least she was honest about it.
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I think recall is a tool that even if it's never used, it's something for, that gives
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accountability back to the voter so that they don't have any tools to hold government
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It's basically, you know, you get what you get for four years or whatever the term is,
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At least this gives a tool to the taxpayer in the middle of an election cycle.
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Now, I wanted to ask what is on Save Calgary's agenda for 2020.
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So 2020, I think, is going to be a really big year for the city of Calgary from a politics
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We are now past the halfway point heading into the next municipal election, which will be
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So I would say 2020 is when we're going to get serious about trying to find candidates,
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really good candidates, to contest the next election for City Hall and for the mayor.
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I think, you know, the problem we had last time is so many candidates came on board just
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a few months, or in some cases a few weeks before Election Day, and they did well, but
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they couldn't beat those incumbents, who, of course, you know, helped redraw those board
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boundaries so that they would be insulated against new people challenging them.
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But we want to go out and find some really good candidates who are prepared to work for
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months and months and months sending the message that they're different, that they believe
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in respecting tax dollars, that they're fiscally conservative.
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And I think that'll take up a big chunk of 2020.
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The other thing I think that really needs to happen in the next year is the realization
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that we cannot keep affording to spend as much as we are on salaries, wages, benefits,
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Those have grown out of control at the city of Calgary.
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And while many councillors admit privately that something has to be done, in public, they're
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all too afraid to really take this on because of the pushback they're going to get from the
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Well, I'm sorry, but sometimes being an elected official means doing what's right, even if
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So we want to make sure that that conversation happens in 2020, first of all, ideally so that
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we can get some rollbacks and some concessions from salaries and wages from employees.
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Or at least so we can get on the record where every councillor stands on this by a vote,
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so that voters will know exactly what they're getting when they go to vote next time.
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Like you rightly pointed out, everybody in municipal politics, especially in Calgary,
00:25:42.260
But it's good to track their behavior after the fact, do a little bit of a municipal review
00:25:47.800
Now, lastly, what if people want to give themselves the gift of a municipal watchdog, a well-funded
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municipal watchdog, and give Save Calgary a gift for Christmas?
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It really is the season of giving as we head into Christmas.
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And, you know, we would be very appreciative if voters value the fact that there is one
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group who consistently stands up for tax reform, for spending cuts, for fiscal responsibility,
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Then I would hope they might think that it was worth giving a gift to Save Calgary through
00:26:33.260
And, you know, while you're there, please sign up to our weekly newsletter.
00:26:37.260
Please check out some of the content that we've been posting.
00:26:40.200
We're very excited that starting in 2020, we're going to have a new video series that
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gives you a really quick rundown of what's happening at City Hall, because so much of
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it happens behind closed doors or in 12 or 14-hour meetings.
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So we want to give you a really quick summary of here's what's coming up at City Hall, mostly
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because we're tired of them spending your tax dollars without you knowing that's coming
00:27:03.620
So if you're in the mood for giving, I did read that it is better to give than to
00:27:07.560
receive, then I would hope you would consider going to savecalgary.com and making a donation.
00:27:15.440
William, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, I'll talk to you in 2020, and enjoy the time
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You know, I'm very glad and excited to hear that Save Calgary is working to identify potential
00:27:39.260
It should always be campaign mode when you're holding a bad government to account on behalf
00:27:51.140
I'll see everybody back here in the same time, in the same place next week.
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Have a very Merry Christmas, a blessed remainder of Advent, Happy Hanukkah, or just, you know
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Whatever you're celebrating, be sure to have a great one.
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And remember, don't let the government tell you that you've had too much to think.