Derek Sloan kicked out of Conservative Caucus： Exclusive Interview
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Summary
An exclusive interview with Derek Sloan, the Member of Parliament who was just kicked out of the Conservative caucus in a secret vote. I talked to him just minutes after that vote, and then I interviewed him via Skype from his home.
Transcript
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Hello, my Rebels. An exclusive interview with Derek Sloan, the Member of Parliament who was
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just kicked out today from the Conservative Caucus in a secret vote. I talked to him just
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minutes after that vote. That's ahead. But first, let me invite you to be a subscriber
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to Rebel News Plus. It's just eight bucks a month, and you get the video version of these podcasts.
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And today's video is so cute because Derek Sloan's kids come on the show,
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and they are so lovely. It's my favorite part of the program, and you can't see that on an audio
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podcast, of course. Just go to rebelnews.com and click subscribe. Eight bucks a month, and you know,
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you keep our lights on here because really we don't take any money from governments,
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so it's from our viewers like you. Eight bucks, that's what, half of a Netflix show?
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Tonight, the Conservative Party votes to throw out Derek Sloan. We'll have an exclusive interview
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with Sloan himself. It's January 20th, and this is the Ezra Levant Show.
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Why should others go to jail when you're a biggest carbon consumer I know?
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There's 8,500 customers here, and you won't give them an answer.
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The only thing I have to say to the government about why I'm publishing it is because it's my
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On Monday, Aaron O'Toole announced in a tweet that he wanted to fire a Conservative MP named Derek Sloan.
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You might remember Sloan as a Conservative candidate for the leadership of the party,
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a rival to Aaron O'Toole. Now, during the campaign, O'Toole came to Sloan's defense,
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saying that just because Sloan had some Conservative ideas doesn't mean he should be
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cancelled or deplatformed. In fact, O'Toole went much further, saying he was against
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cancel culture in general. Well, all that ended on Monday when O'Toole used a trumped-up excuse
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to say he wanted Sloan out. I won't go deep into the excuse now. We've talked about it in the past
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few days. It's basically this. One of the many thousands of online donors to Sloan's campaign
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was a Frederick P. Fromm, which was a nom de plume of Paul Fromm, a racist. Who would possibly know that?
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Well, as soon as Sloan heard about it, he refunded the money. But Aaron O'Toole, in that tweet,
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said that was an atrocious and unforgivable, gross lack of judgment and due diligence. No, it wasn't.
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And now Aaron O'Toole has set such a low bar by which he will be expected by the media and the
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liberals to sack his own MPs. Well, it came to a vote today. That's one of the new rules of the
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Conservative caucus is the leader himself can't kick anyone out. And in the end, the caucus did vote
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to kick out Sloan. Moments after that vote, I interviewed the man via Skype. Here's that
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interview. Come back afterwards, because I did another interview today, too. And joining me now
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via Skype from his home is Derek Sloan. Mr. Sloan, welcome back to the program. We spoke to you last
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during the Conservative leadership campaign. As of now, you are no longer a Conservative MP. Is that true?
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That is definitely true. As of about an hour ago, or even slightly less, I was notified that
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I am no longer a Conservative MP. Now, tell me about the process by which
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you were terminated. I understand there was a caucus meeting via Zoom. Is that correct?
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Were you a part of that meeting? How did that meeting go?
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So I was a part of that meeting. And in that meeting, basically, and I should say up front that
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the procedure, procedurally, it was entirely fair. You know, I was able to make it at as much time as
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I wanted to make an opening and closing statement. And then in the intervening, others had, you know,
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some time to make comments as well. Obviously, the outcome is ridiculous. And of course, will damage
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the party immensely. But they've made their bed and now they have to lie in it.
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Now, I'm unfamiliar with the process by which an MP can be ejected from a caucus. Were there rules?
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Was there a prosecutor? Who made the case? What was, how was the resolution framed? Can you tell us a
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little bit how it went down? You say you felt it was a fair process. What exactly was that process?
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Well, there were some changes to the Reform Act, or I believe the Reform Act made these changes
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several years ago. And what it did was, at the beginning of every parliamentary session,
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each party gets to decide several things. One, whether caucus will have the ability to eject a
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member or the default positions that the leader can unilaterally do so. The other thing that they
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decide is whether the caucus can eject the leader, for example. And then there's a third thing
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relating to interim leaders and another thing relating to, I believe, the caucus chair.
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Now, our party is one of the only parties that consistently votes to allow caucus to have that
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prerogative. And typically, that's a good thing as far as democracy goes, because, you know, it's better
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that, you know, a plurality of caucus has a decision over one member than just the arbitrary whims of the
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leader. Now, you know, no one else really says how they vote on these things. And there was some
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speculation as to whether the Liberals had done this or not in the last Parliament with regard to Jody
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Wilson-Raybould. But in any event, that's the process. So our party has always voted that we would
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give caucus the right to determine whether a person should stay in it or not, which is actually a
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positive thing, because the default is that the leader on his whim could kick somebody out.
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They typically, we have not chosen as a caucus to be able to give the leader a review. And the
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rationale for that is typically, well, listen, it should be up to members who the leader is. And so,
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you know, if caucus kicks out the leader, then you may have a situation where you have a leaderless
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party, but the members have elected a certain leader. And I understand that process. And I'm
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somewhat familiar with the laws and their rationale. But tell me a little bit more, I'm sorry to
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interrupt you, but tell me a little bit more about how it went down today. Was there a prosecutor? Was
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there a particular accusation or a charge? Was there a list of quarrels with you? Or was it all just vague
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and holistic? Yeah. So basically to kick off this thing under the Reform Act, you need to have a
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certain number of signatures. So I believe, so for our caucus, it's 25 signatures will trigger this. So
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I suppose that might mean 20% of caucus or something like that. So our caucus chair got a sheet of paper
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and it didn't have any list of charges. It just was the following names want to review the status of
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Derek Sloan in caucus. And now those names were not revealed to me other than the person whose
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name was on the letterhead itself. And so that person, I do know. Everybody else, I do not. But
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25, I think it was 28 signatures were submitted, which got the ball rolling on this. Okay. Are you
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at liberty to tell us whose letterhead it was? Right now, I'm at liberty to do anything, Ezra. That's
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one of the bonuses of being an independent MP. Right. And will you tell us who put together
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the letter? Was it Aaron O'Toole himself? It was not Aaron. It was Phil McCollum, an MP from the
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Brantford area, who has had a vendetta against me since the Dr. Tam comments in the spring.
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If you say there were 28 names on it, now in any votes, you want to have a scrutineer,
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you want to check the integrity of the vote. Did you have a scrutineer? Was there some sort
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of authority who counted the votes? I mean, you say you think there were 28 names on it,
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but it sounds like you don't know there were. So right there, my instincts as a former lawyer would
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be who checked, who confirmed, who verified. Was there some sort of presiding judge over this whole
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process? So the judge, as it were, was the caucus chair. Who's that? So that is Tom Kimmich.
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Okay. He is an MP from Alberta. I would say that I get along quite well with Tom, and I trust him,
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and I don't believe that any foul play occurred in any element of this with respect to process.
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So you made an opening statement, I think I heard you say, and then various MPs criticized you. Is that
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Yeah. So both Phil and I were given opening and closing statements. The leader was able to talk
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twice, and everybody else was able to talk once. So in the intervening time between closing and ending,
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anybody could talk that wanted to for up to two minutes. And so, yeah, and so the bulk of the
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comments, nearly all the, many comments were critical. Now, you know, caucus meetings are a
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weird beast because, you know, those who may be in favor of me, you know, may have, may very well
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have voted in favor of me, but wouldn't necessarily have wanted to make comments publicly for fear of
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being targeted in the future. So, you know, so it doesn't, just because it was predominantly negative
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doesn't, you know, necessarily mean that every single person was against me. But the comments, yes,
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were largely negative. And, you know, the interesting thing is that, you know, the common
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understanding is that the communications on this have been completely botched. Nobody bought into this
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donation garbage with the Paul Fromm. It turned into just a, well, we don't really like the way
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Derek operates. He's always getting us into trouble. He's going to, you know, we're going to
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lose, you know, lose the next election. You know, to borrow a quote that you may have seen when you
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watched The Passion a few days ago, you know, is it better that one die for the nation? Or in this
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case, is it better that one person be sacrificed for the safety of the party rather than that we all
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suffer? And of course, I don't agree with that logic, but that was essentially what came forward.
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Now, I think I heard you say we are unaware of the vote count, or do you know how the vote
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split at the end of the day? I do not know. I know that, you know, again, I trust the process.
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We use some sort of a company, not Dominion Voting. I was going to ask. We use some Alberta company
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that's apparently owned by conservatives. Frankly, I don't in any way doubt the results. And I do trust
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Tom. Tom Kimmich is an honorable person. I know him. I mean, he's a good egg. And, you know,
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I would never trust any politician. But if you had to trust one, I'd probably put him on the list.
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Well, let me ask you this, because I think there's a lot of problems with the way you were sacked
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and the way you describe the criticisms of you. It sounds like the donation from Frederick P.
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Fromm was just a fig leaf for, you know, other pre-existing, you know, disagreements with you.
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The thing is, being done in the name of that trivial donation that no one caught. I mean,
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I follow anti-Semites because I'm Jewish and I'm interested in it. And I know the name Paul Fromm.
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I do not know the name Frederick P. Fromm. And I think I follow this stuff more closely than 99.9%
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of people. So I think that's, I don't think anyone credibly thinks that that's the real charge against
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you. Here's my point. And you tell me, was this addressed by anyone in the debate? Aaron O'Toole
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has just set the most ridiculous hair trigger standard by which I don't think other MPs will
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be sacked, by which the party will be hoist on its own petard. If you take a donation from anyone,
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even if they're using a pen name, even if it's trivial, even if it came in online, you now have
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that entire person's baggage put around your neck. And I think that's insane. Please tell me some MPs in
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the Conservative Party pointed out that having that kind of a hair trigger standard is nuts.
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Everybody recognized that. And that's why they tried to make it about, you know, me personally
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or other things. You know, I will say this, Ezra, what I believe this is all about, I have been
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working hard to recruit grassroots members to be delegates in our upcoming convention. And I've been
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very successful at that. And I believe higher ups were terrified at the, you know, the possibility
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of basically delegates that believe similarly to me when it comes to, you know, against the Paris
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Accord and all these other types of things, actually going to the convention and, you know,
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passing policies that would embarrass Aaron O'Toole. And so I believe that this was created exactly for
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that reason. And frankly, a lot of MPs were saying, oh, well, you know, how dare you interfere in
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my EDA? And, you know, MPs need to realize they're not the prince of their EDA. They're not
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little earls of fiefdoms. They are the servant of the members of their riding. And if I have more
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control over their EDA and their riding than they do, then that's a problem. And it's not my fault.
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And so that is what this is about. It's about the influence that I have. And frankly, listen,
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this isn't for nefarious purposes. I strongly believe that the principles I stand for are what will
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make this party strong and I will fight. I will use my influence, whether it's Facebook or whatever
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else. So, you know, these people are jealous. They made a foolish error and they will see
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the fury rain down. And, you know, it's just beginning. You know, you mentioned, I think you
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said Phil McColeman was the one on whose letterhead the accusation was made. Is that right?
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Okay. I am not well familiar with him. So obviously he was a condemner of you. Are you
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willing to tell us any names of any other MPs who condemned you or senators or any who stood
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with you, even if they disagreed with you? I saw online a lot of people who have had policy
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disagreements with you or even personality disagreements with you saying this is nuts,
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whatever you think of Derek Sloan. Are you at liberty? Is there any reason why you wouldn't
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tell us some of the players behind the scenes? And the reason I think it's relevant is because I want
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to know as a small C conservative who believes in cancel culture and who doesn't, who believes in due
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process and who doesn't. I want to know who has the courage to stand up to Aaron O'Toole when he's wrong
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and who doesn't. That's a real question. And I want to know who's sticking the dagger in your back
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for what I think is a trumped up charge. I want to say something I haven't heard you say. I'm going
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to come back to that question, but let me interrupt myself. I have not heard you say something
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which surprises me. Your wife and your beautiful children, who I've never met, I just see pictures.
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You know what, Mike? Jen is right here. Come here, Jen. They're visible minorities. Like, I mean,
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let me just say, let me just talk about the elephant in the room. You are married to a woman of color
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and your children are the same. And the idea that you would take 130 bucks from some washed up,
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you know, septuagenarian racist failure as some secret symbolic alliance is so absurd.
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But you don't mention that. I mean, why didn't you, you didn't play that card? It's not a
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conservative card to play. You don't, you don't like to mention that your whole family is minorities.
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You know, listen, this was so ridiculous. I didn't, I didn't want to drag them into this,
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but you're, you're right. I mean, listen, I, I, I was joking earlier today. My wife has a West
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Indian background. I eat more curry at home than I do other types of food. So listen, the idea that I'm,
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you know, uh, uh, you know, some kind of racist or something is just, is, is, it's preposterous.
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And people know that. I mean, my family has been in all kinds of photos that I post publicly. Uh,
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so this, I mean, this was just so absurd. I didn't want to, you know, drag them through the mud and,
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and be like a, see, I have a, I have a, you know, uh, uh, such and such friend, or I have a this or
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that. I mean, you know, it was ridiculous, but you, you raise a great point.
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You know what? I just think it's atrociously unfair. Uh, and this is done to conservatives
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all the time. Conservatives who live a colorblind life are accused of that, which the other side
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does. I mean, hearing that from blackface, Justin Trudeau gets my dander up. Now I interrupted myself,
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which is not rare. Uh, I was asking you if you were in a position to tell me and other viewers who
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have a public interest in knowing the character of the conservative party caucus, do you feel
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motivated to tell me and our viewers any of your attackers or defenders? Uh, and if they made
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particularly thoughtful or cruel remarks? Well, I will say this. Um, I will be dropping names as time
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goes on. Uh, when it comes to those who defended me, I actually, um, I actually don't want to do them
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any disservice in terms of having them targeted. I will say that, um, there were, uh, a group,
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uh, a group of people, the same types that defended me before or many of them, uh, who were actively
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calling around and, uh, actively defending me. And I have, uh, there are certainly some very close
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friends that I have in caucus, but I don't want to make their, uh, their current life miserable by
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pointing them out. But, uh, I will certainly, as time goes on, be dropping more names, uh, of those,
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uh, turncoats who, uh, are using, um, you know, fancy words and caucus solidarity and, oh, you're not
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playing as a team as cover for, uh, basically, uh, trying to sideline a large part of, uh, uh,
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hardcore conservatives that support them. Yeah. I just don't get it. I mean, you know, I'm,
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I think I'm older than you, uh, back in the day, I was Calgary Southwest when the party was fractured
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when it was called the Canadian Alliance. And I remember when Stephen Harper came in,
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the first thing he did was he bolted back on the splittists and the democratic representative
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caucus. You might remember Monty Solberg, Jay Hill, Deborah Gray had split off. Harper welded them
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back on. Then he met with Peter McKay, welded that part back on. And he spent years adding,
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not subtracting, not subtracting. I just don't get it. How do you move from minority opposition
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to majority government by splitting and pushing out? I don't get the math. I, I don't understand
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how throwing, not just you and your squad and maybe people who affiliate with you, but anyone
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who hates this splittism and this cancel culturism, how is that going to win things for Aaron O'Toole?
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I, I don't even get it. Yeah. In all honesty, they think if they sacrifice me,
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they're going to win some more soccer moms in the nine Oh five. That's, that's literally the
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calculus. And we'll see how wrong they are when this next election happens. Yeah. You know what?
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I know you probably have a gazillion other calls to take. Um, I'm sure Rosemary Barton is next on
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your list of people to call if, if, if she's not suing you already, looks like you have a little
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person there. Yeah. Oh, those are cuties. Who, who do we have there? Hi, Fiona. Nice to meet you. And
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who, who's on your other side? Who are you? Um, Nora. This one is Nora and this one is Calum.
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Well, aren't you cute as a button. The three of you is like peas in a pod. Lovely,
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lovely family, lovely children. Thanks for saying hi kids.
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What a beautiful family. And you know what? I mean, in these wretched days of ugly, dirty politics,
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I am absolutely certain just looking at those cherubic faces that that is solace for any slings
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and arrows that can be thrown at you in that dirty building called parliament. I'm sure you come home
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to those beautiful kids and you really don't even care. That's a fact. That's a fact. Well,
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listen, beautiful family. Um, I do have one last question and I'll let you go cause, um, it's a very
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busy day for you. I hope your answer is yes, because I like to be an optimist at the end of
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the day. Please tell me that there were people in senior positions, senior critics, long time
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conservatives, shadow cabinet positions of note. Please tell me that there were people of influence
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in the party who talked not about your personality or quarrels and not about this trumped up charge of
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taking 130 bucks from some anonymous crank. But please tell me there was someone senior in the
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party who was talking about fighting against cancel culture and deplatforming. Can you give me that?
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And I'm not asking for a name. I'm just saying, please tell me that there is something conservative
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left in the conservative party. The, the, the only people who were fighting for me and who spoke up at
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all were, were some rank and file. Um, I'm not aware of any, uh, uh, high level person that, uh,
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that, that actively defended me. And I don't know what happened behind the scenes. I can't speak to
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that, but to my knowledge, just rank and file. Well, I am deeply, deeply disappointed to hear that
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answer. I was so hoping that you would have thrown me a bone there. I am deeply disappointed
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in the shadow cabinet, but I should not be surprised. Um, that is very frustrating. How
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many people were, were on the call? Was it, uh, you got 141 MPs and senators. How many folks were
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on the zoom call altogether? You know what? Uh, I think it was in the one thirties. I forget the
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exact number. So everyone was engaged. It was pretty, pretty involved. And my guess is that some of the
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senators may not have been there because under the rules of this legislation, they don't actually vote.
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They can talk if they want, but they don't actually vote. So they could be that the missing
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numbers were senators. So you had about 130 out of 141. That's an incredible turnout. Clearly it's,
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uh, well, I mean, I, it's, it's the most important issue in the party right now, because I think it
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goes to the character of the party. I think that the party failed the character test. Derek, I don't
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know what you think about it, but, uh, I mean, I'm, I'm a fan of yours. Um, I, I think you,
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uh, your policy stances in the leadership were excellent. I think people are being politically
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correct about your comments. I think you're really one of the few conservative MPs who
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criticizes the government. Um, and so we, uh, have set up a website. We call it stand with
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sloan.com and we just launched it about five minutes ago and I can see it has 188 signatures
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on it. And this is for people who either stand with you personally, stand with your ideas,
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stand with your projects, or simply stand against the cancel culture. I, I'm going to sign this
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petition myself. I'm not a party member. I'm just someone who thinks that you should never cancel
00:24:19.460
an MP this way. And I understand you were actually, that you weren't actually ever called by Aaron O'Toole
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before he announced he was going to seek your termination. Is that true? Yeah, not before and
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not after. Aaron O'Toole had still not contacted you other than his general remarks on the zoom
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call today. That's correct. You know, firing people is an unfortunate job that every boss has
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to do. And, uh, I think it's a, a sign of someone's character to at least call someone, if not look at
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them in the eyes when you fire them. Has he sent you an email or a text? I've had no communication
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with him at all, uh, before this event or through and, and, or after.
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I am very disappointed in that answer. If you, if you're firing a man for good reasons or for bad,
00:25:13.600
you look him in the eye and you tell him, and maybe you listen to what he says in reply. I'm deeply
00:25:18.660
disappointed in that answer. But again, I'm not surprised if you stand with Sloan, go to
00:25:25.480
standwithsloan.com. I see we're now up to 244 signatures. Derek, thanks for being here today.
00:25:32.160
Thank you for showing us your beautiful family. I know that you'll be fine because you've got them
00:25:37.640
and, uh, I don't know what the future will hold for you. The future for independent, uh, candidates
00:25:43.720
in Canada is lean, but, uh, perhaps there are other important jobs for you left to do. I don't know
00:25:51.740
if you have any thoughts of what you'll do next right now, if you're going to think about it for a
00:25:54.920
while. There are no thoughts other than I'm staying here to fight and I'm staying here to
00:25:59.740
be even a more vocal advocate than before. In fact, I've been unleashed in a way to fight for
00:26:05.300
the things that matter to all of us. So I'm not going anywhere. Well, I hope you'll continue to
00:26:10.260
talk with us. I've enjoyed our conversations over the year. As always, we extend invitations
00:26:15.400
to your former boss, Aaron O'Toole. He did talk with me in an email interview and then he was scared
00:26:22.260
of his own shadow in a strange way. I think that may have, uh, been a snowflake that turned
00:26:27.980
into an avalanche for 10 days. The party's been devouring itself and it has not been a pretty
00:26:32.320
sight. I think he should have a little more courage, but I don't think you can get a courage
00:26:36.440
transplant at his age. Oh, well, he's welcome to come on and, uh, and make his case. I doubt
00:26:42.500
he will. Let me reiterate our invitation to any conservative MP or Senator to come on the
00:26:47.980
show on the same terms everyone else is invited on. Derek Sloan, great to talk with you. Good luck.
00:26:54.080
Thank you. Talk to you soon. Well, you can watch the rest of that live stream where
00:26:58.080
I go in depth in the issue and take viewer comments. You can find that at our YouTube page.
00:27:04.780
Up next, a review of the inauguration of Joseph Biden, including a review of his speech
00:27:24.920
This is America's day. This is democracy's day, a day of history and hope of renewal and resolve
00:27:35.160
through a crucible for the ages. America has been tested anew and America has risen to the
00:27:42.920
challenge. Today, we celebrate the triumph, not of a candidate, but of a cause, the cause
00:27:51.340
of democracy. The people, the will of the people has been heard and the will of the people has
00:27:59.580
been heeded. Well, that's a clip from Joe Biden's inaugural address today. I watched it.
00:28:04.380
I found it fairly, well, I have to say I didn't find it convincing because the whole time I was
00:28:10.080
thinking he looks like someone who didn't write a speech, barely understands it as he reads it,
00:28:16.100
and will forget it as soon as he's done saying it. I truly believe that Joe Biden is not at the
00:28:21.700
height of his cognitive powers and that this is something that will actually be used by the
00:28:27.000
Democrats to their advantage. They'll trot out this friendly old man who smiles and reads a few
00:28:32.460
pre-printed lines in a teleprompter. He'll answer few of any questions and he'll be trotted off
00:28:37.480
while the real work of the Democratic administration is done by other people off screen. So I don't have
00:28:44.120
much to say about the inaugural address because I don't think it means anything other than what some
00:28:48.660
speechwriters thought. I don't think it truly represents a vision of the president. In fact,
00:28:53.580
those things that did have any meaning seem to me to be a bit of a lie. Talks about unifying America,
00:28:59.680
red and blue, didn't ring true with the extreme divisiveness and the hunting down of Trump with
00:29:05.840
an attempt to impeach him a second time in his final days and the vetting of soldiers in the
00:29:11.780
National Guard now for political ideology and just the ratcheting up of the rhetoric in real life,
00:29:17.640
not the ratcheting down. That's my point of view. But look, I'm just a Canadian up here
00:29:21.280
in Toronto. I don't know what's going on. But one of my favorite guys to help us navigate these
00:29:26.900
politics is a Republican who lives in a very Democrat state. You know who I'm talking about?
00:29:31.740
Our friend Joel Pollack, senior editor at large at Breitbart.com. And we've caught him now on the
00:29:37.560
highways of that very state. Joel, you got to promise me that you'll keep your eyes on the road.
00:29:43.120
I appreciate you talking to us while you're driving, but don't crash, okay?
00:29:47.260
If I keep my eyes on the road, that'll be an improvement from my normal practice.
00:29:50.760
That's very funny. Now, I'm sure you watched the inauguration or at least listened to it on the
00:29:54.780
radio as you were driving. I'm not going to pay a lot of attention to it because I don't think it
00:29:59.820
reflects the president. Am I wrong? Well, let me give you my assessment of the speech as a speech,
00:30:06.420
first of all. I thought it was a very good speech. And I think it was probably the best speech Joe
00:30:11.320
Biden has given that I can remember. There were some weak points and very concerning things in the
00:30:17.760
speech that I'll get to in a moment. But let's just talk about the good, first of all. I think it's
00:30:21.760
good that he talked about unity. And he didn't just talk about it as a line or two. It really
00:30:27.000
was the entire speech. And I think that's important. I think he has a lot to do to unify
00:30:33.100
the country. He ran a very divisive campaign. His party is busy trying to punish Trump out of office,
00:30:39.800
you know, post-presidency. And of course, there was the Capitol riot two weeks ago.
00:30:44.720
So given the setting and given the context, I think the speech was very good in terms of its
00:30:52.880
focus on unity. I think he had some very good lines. We must end this uncivil war. I think that
00:30:58.360
was the line of the speech. And I think that'll be remembered. I think that he'll be remembered for
00:31:03.440
that. I think that's the way he wants to be thought of as a president. And I think he did himself
00:31:10.280
a really good turn by making unity the focus of the speech. Now, the negative part of the speech
00:31:18.680
was a section about truth. And Joe Biden has promoted this conceit that somehow he represents
00:31:28.100
truth and the opposition represents lies. And he went after what he called lies for power and for
00:31:34.400
profit. I'm paraphrasing slightly. It may have been the other way around, lies for profit and for power.
00:31:40.280
But first of all, it's not true that other people lie and Joe Biden tells the truth. I mean,
00:31:45.940
Joe Biden is one of the most notorious liars in the history of American politics. He dropped out
00:31:50.840
of his first presidential race because he faked his resume and he plagiarized the speech.
00:31:55.180
He also campaigned on the fine people hoax and many other lies. He continues to lie. A couple weeks
00:32:00.840
ago, he lied about the president holding a Bible upside down. I mean, Joe Biden can't tell the truth.
00:32:05.860
But aside from the hypocrisy, it was a subtle endorsement of the cancel culture. The idea that
00:32:13.160
the social media platforms are going to try to get rid of users and groups that hold alternative views
00:32:22.660
that the left considers untrue. But on issue after issue, like climate change, for example,
00:32:29.620
you're going to find that what the left considers untrue is simply skepticism or an alternative view
00:32:35.240
that might actually turn out to be correct. So I was very concerned about Joe Biden's
00:32:40.220
line or paragraph about going after lies and pursuing lies. He didn't specify what he would do.
00:32:47.760
He said, we have a responsibility to tell the truth. Well, that's fine. But he did not emphasize
00:32:51.800
free speech. And that was a big problem. In Trump's farewell address yesterday, he spoke about the
00:32:57.320
importance of free speech. It would not have been difficult for Joe Biden to do the same.
00:33:01.220
He didn't really do that. So I think that's very concerning. That's why if you look at the
00:33:06.140
Breitbart headlines today, they're all about how Joe Biden called for unity and then demonized his
00:33:11.080
opponent. I think that's perhaps a less charitable reading than the one I just gave, but it's not
00:33:15.660
untrue. I mean, I think that is actually pretty accurate. After making this great call for unity,
00:33:20.820
he signaled that there's going to be a kind of intolerance for views that he considers to be untrue.
00:33:26.040
And that's where the fight is right now. So that's why there's division, because Democrats
00:33:31.440
insist they have a monopoly on truth. And of course, they don't. Many of the things they believe
00:33:35.500
are simply false. And they think they're true because they live in a media echo chamber that
00:33:40.300
doesn't encounter an alternative perspective. So that was what was bad in the speech.
00:33:45.300
The other noteworthy thing about the speech is that it had no policy in it whatsoever.
00:33:50.460
This is one of the few inaugural addresses that I can remember. It may be the only one
00:33:56.520
in recent memory that had no declarations of policy or even policy goals, really. It was just
00:34:04.200
completely bereft of any kind of policy. And that might have been fine, given the context. Maybe we
00:34:11.220
don't want to talk about policy when the country is trying to come together. That's the most important
00:34:15.480
priority. But there are going to be some big policy moves. There already are some underway on his
00:34:20.900
first day in office. So it was kind of interesting that he didn't signal a policy direction the way
00:34:26.300
Obama did, for example, and the way Trump certainly did in his inaugural address. So I don't think it
00:34:30.900
was a remarkable address on its own. I don't think it was particularly well written. But it was a very
00:34:35.820
good speech in that it emphasized unity. And I do think Joe Biden believes in it. I'm not sure he knows
00:34:41.460
how to do it. And his party is busy making everything worse with this continued impeachment
00:34:46.640
and so forth and the pursuit of dissident views, the attempt to stifle free speech online that he's
00:34:52.400
kind of endorsed. In fact, it's more than kind of. He actually has endorsed it. His campaign pushed
00:34:58.080
Facebook to get conservatives offline and that sort of thing. So I think it remains to be seen if Joe
00:35:04.680
Biden can follow through on that commitment for unity. But it wasn't a bad start. And one other thing I'm just
00:35:09.760
reminded of, he asked the nation to join in a moment of silence or public prayer over the victims
00:35:15.740
of coronavirus. Now, I'm not so sold on the idea of public mourning for the victims of coronavirus in
00:35:22.600
quite the way the Democrats want us to do it. It's almost as if they want us to be continually mournful.
00:35:27.480
Joe Biden talked about, I think he called it a dismal winter or something like that. I'm not into that.
00:35:32.960
I do think people need to be remembered and honored and so forth. And there need to be memorials,
00:35:37.120
but it can't be a constant memorial. We can't walk around under a dark cloud. But I do think it's
00:35:42.420
important that he said his first act as president would be to offer a prayer. That's really a social
00:35:46.820
conservative thing to do. And so if there's any hope that he can follow through on this promise
00:35:52.100
of unity, it was in that gesture. So I would grade the speech as very good. I don't know if it means
00:35:56.780
anything for the future of his presidency. In fact, I said earlier today that this will probably be the
00:36:00.560
best day of Joe Biden's presidency because it was the one thing he was supposed to do,
00:36:05.080
right, was supposed to win the election and take Donald Trump out of the picture. So he's done
00:36:09.560
that now. And I don't think there's much left for him to do. But I think it's a good start,
00:36:17.660
Huh. Well, you're always optimistic. And that's one of the reasons we like to hear from you.
00:36:22.360
Hopeful might be another word. You know, it's funny, because I remember when he was talking about
00:36:26.300
truth. And whenever a politician, whenever a government starts implying it will be the truth,
00:36:32.440
that's when I get nervous. And we see in Canada, Justin Trudeau tracking a parallel track just two
00:36:39.380
days ago in the Globe and Mail, senior Trudeau officials announcing that they plan to create a
00:36:43.460
new department that will be in charge of social media regulation. So obviously working in tandem
00:36:50.420
with the Democrats on that, no doubt about it. But I was thinking about his talk about truth
00:36:55.160
and a little bit about reconciliation, which I didn't believe. And those two words reminded me of
00:36:59.940
something from South African. I know you're originally from there a long time ago.
00:37:03.580
After apartheid, there were a truth and reconciliation committee. And you correct me if my memory is
00:37:09.560
wrong, Joel. But the idea was to air things out, not in a way to inflame things, but just to let
00:37:16.860
people have their say, to let people put on the record their grief and grievances, to let people
00:37:22.200
face opponents they could never face before and speak truth to defrock power. I don't know.
00:37:29.000
It just seemed like it was, at least with the reports we got in Canada, that it was a healthy
00:37:34.200
airing out of the history, something that maybe should have been done in the Soviet Union after
00:37:39.180
it fell, something that was done to some degree after the fall of Nazi Germany. A truth and
00:37:45.780
reconciliation committee, not a vengeance committee. I think that Joe Biden and the Democrats are
00:37:52.760
going to be the opposite of the South African Truth and Reconciliation Committee. I don't think
00:37:58.680
they want the truth. I don't think they want reconciliation. I think they want to say what
00:38:02.500
they believe in is the truth. And the only reconciliation that is offered to the right
00:38:08.800
I think that's probably true. And let me talk about the Truth and Reconciliation Commission
00:38:15.920
for a second. And if you want to read more about it, by the way, let me plug my book,
00:38:20.240
which is new, just came out a week ago, called How Not to Be an S-Hole Country, Lessons from
00:38:25.660
South Africa. So you can find that on Amazon. It's done quite well. And the whole first chapter
00:38:30.200
really is about this idea of reconciliation. So South Africa had the Truth and Reconciliation
00:38:34.580
Commission. And you're right. Part of the point of it was to allow victims of the apartheid
00:38:40.580
regime to confront people who had committed human rights abuses. But the reason that the
00:38:46.000
TRC, as it was known, was successful wasn't just that. That's the part that got reported
00:38:52.000
in the Western press, especially in the United States and Canada and elsewhere in Europe. But
00:38:58.020
the reason the TRC was important to South Africans goes beyond that. It was also a chance
00:39:03.880
to admit that the liberation movements, the African National Congress and others,
00:39:10.380
also committed human rights abuses in the anti-apartheid struggle, that they themselves
00:39:15.980
had committed acts of terrorism. They had killed innocent people. They had bombed bars and restaurants.
00:39:22.720
They had their own system of prison camps where they tortured suspected informants and suspected
00:39:27.880
dissidents, often innocent people. There were reports of ANC fighters outside the country
00:39:33.860
in these military camps, raping women from local communities. All of that got aired out as
00:39:39.780
well. Now, the ANC was not happy about that. And they argued, there was a book by a couple of
00:39:45.620
ministers, future ministers in the Mandela government, who argued that you cannot judge the liberation
00:39:51.740
struggle by the same moral standard as you judge the apartheid regime, that these were good versus
00:39:57.980
evil. And you can't judge the good struggle by the same standard that you would judge the evil regime.
00:40:05.820
The TRC, under the leadership of Archbishop Desmond Tutu, who's also a morally complicated figure, but
00:40:11.420
in this regard, he was really in the right. The TRC said, no, we apply a common standard to human rights
00:40:18.980
abuses, no matter who commits them and for what purpose. And that was why the TRC succeeded.
00:40:24.900
What the Democrats in this country don't understand is that they are accountable to the same standard.
00:40:30.500
So it's not okay only to condemn the riot at the Capitol, unless you also condemn the Black Lives Matter
00:40:38.100
riots that caused one to $2 billion of damage, claimed several lives and destroyed cities like the city I'm
00:40:44.900
in right now. I'm in the city of Santa Monica, California, where the downtown area was completely
00:40:49.460
devastated during Black Lives Matter protests. It's not the same. It won't be the same for years.
00:40:54.420
And the Democrats allowed that to happen. In fact, they condoned it. Some supported it.
00:40:58.580
So it's not okay just to say these people who stormed the Capitol are evil and so forth. You have to
00:41:05.780
apply a consistent standard. Now, Democrats don't want to do that. They believe that violence in the
00:41:10.420
service of their cause, in the service of racial justice is justified and necessary.
00:41:15.780
And they will point to examples like the Stonewall riot in the gay rights movement. They will say,
00:41:20.340
without violence, you don't get anywhere when you're looking for equal rights.
00:41:23.620
And that's a misreading of history. As James Kirchick pointed out in the Wall Street Journal
00:41:28.820
on the 50th anniversary of Stonewall, there was actually a nonviolent gay rights movement that
00:41:33.540
existed before Stonewall. And the problem is the way the left tells history is that it's always
00:41:38.740
these uprisings that create change. And it happens in history that change only happens as a result
00:41:49.380
of confrontation. But you can't excuse the things people do. And it's always better to use nonviolence.
00:41:56.980
Nonviolence creates a moral basis to make the change and to make it permanent. You can date the
00:42:03.060
death of the civil rights movement in this country to the point where it became militant. The Black
00:42:07.940
Panther Party really alienated a lot of Americans, whereas Martin Luther King had reached out with
00:42:12.980
love and nonviolence and tolerance and so forth. So Democrats don't understand this idea of truth
00:42:19.060
and reconciliation. They use that term because they want Donald Trump to be considered on the same level
00:42:24.420
as the apartheid regime. They want Donald Trump to be considered guilty. And they want to use that
00:42:29.540
commission to kind of create a show trial of anyone who supported Donald Trump. It's the most ridiculous
00:42:33.940
idea. And it basically criminalizes opposition in this country. But if they want to take the positive
00:42:42.420
idea that everyone is judged by the same standard, I'm fully on board with that. If you want to
00:42:46.980
reconcile, you have to say, look, everybody needs to obey this common standard of rejecting political
00:42:54.020
violence. I tweeted today, I don't want to hear any complaints about insurrection when you spent four
00:42:59.060
years mounting what you call the resistance. You know, and that's what they did. I don't think they're
00:43:03.380
aware of it. It really has to be emphasized because they've only just now awakened to the idea that
00:43:09.940
political violence might not be good. They spent a year justifying it, defending it. And now that was
00:43:16.100
a drawback in Joe Biden's speech. He talked about the forces that divide us. He named racism, nativism.
00:43:21.860
Okay, but how about leftism? How about anarchy? How about socialism? I mean, how about all these
00:43:27.700
forces on the left that pit one group of Americans against another? How about identity politics?
00:43:33.220
I mean, if the forces that divide Americans are not just extremists on the right, there are extremists
00:43:39.780
on the left. And those extremists have the ear of the governing party and the mainstream media. So
00:43:46.020
I didn't think he did enough to really put his own side on notice that he was holding them to the
00:43:50.500
same standard. And that's a consciousness I don't think he has. And that's why I think
00:43:55.380
I'm very, I mean, I'm very skeptical of his calls for unity, because that's what
00:43:58.660
unity would require. It would require that kind of self-criticism, that kind of humility.
00:44:04.740
And the Democrats, as you, as you say, are not interested in that. They're interested in maximizing
00:44:09.220
the opportunity that power has given them. They're not interested in bringing both sides together.
00:44:14.180
Having said that, it was a good speech. If you wanted to start on a good note, that was the way to do it.
00:44:18.580
But I agree with you. The proof is in the pudding. And so far, there's not much pudding there.
00:44:23.460
I know you've got to go. I think you've pulled over in your car, and I don't want to make you
00:44:26.420
late for your appointment. Let me just ask you one last question. The article you write today,
00:44:31.300
you do a lot of articles. One of them is called, Where Trump Supporters Go From Here. I think part of
00:44:37.140
that is answered from, where does Trump go from here? There's chatter. Maybe he'll create a new
00:44:44.180
party. Maybe he'll have a super back. Maybe he'll try and get back into business. I'm skeptical about
00:44:52.180
If I were Donald Trump, I would enjoy a few months of quiet in Florida, and I would build a
00:45:00.900
presidential library. Barack Obama still hasn't built his presidential library more than four
00:45:06.740
years later. And it says a lot about Obama. He was always very good at oratory and argument and
00:45:15.060
concepts, but never good at executing anything. It's why he wasn't an effective president. It's why he
00:45:19.940
wasn't a good world leader, really, and a good leader of the United States. I would like to see
00:45:24.260
Donald Trump get a presidential library up and running. It can be different from the other
00:45:28.340
libraries. It can be a resort in Florida. You know, it can be beachfront property. It should have
00:45:32.900
archives and so forth, but it should also have a kind of foundation of scholars. It should have a
00:45:38.660
resident think tank that should promulgate the ideas of the Make America Great Again movement,
00:45:45.060
the MAGA movement. And I think that's a first step. I think create that foundation for your legacy,
00:45:51.380
which Obama hasn't done. Donald Trump is a builder, and now I think he needs to build institutions.
00:45:57.220
Beyond that, whether he gets back into the political race, whether he becomes a kind of
00:46:01.460
Republican kingmaker, I think people will seek his endorsement. But I think it would be healthy for the
00:46:07.140
party to find its own way for a while to figure out how it's going to conduct itself. There are a number
00:46:13.460
of leadership changes that are probably necessary, particularly in the Senate where Mitch McConnell
00:46:18.660
led the party to defeat, okay? The party lost three seats in the recent elections. That's usually a
00:46:24.020
prescription for leadership change. So hopefully that'll happen. And Donald Trump, I think,
00:46:30.340
needs to let it happen while creating, hopefully, an institutional basis that'll carry his legacy
00:46:37.060
forward beyond this next coming election and really beyond his lifetime. I think that these
00:46:43.460
principles and policies that he stood for are the keys to American success and really the guarantors
00:46:50.740
of freedom around the world. If we go the way the Democrats want, I think all of that is at risk.
00:46:55.220
All right. Well, we'll let you get back to your day's journeys. Thanks for talking to us from your
00:47:00.580
car. And I'm glad we didn't cause a car accident. Joel Paul, great to see you again. Thanks for your time.
00:47:06.580
Thank you. All right. There you have it. Senior editor at large at Breitbart.com. Stay with us.
00:47:11.140
Well, it was great to have Derek Sloan on the show. I find him intelligent and thoughtful.
00:47:27.700
The idea that he's racist is a laugh. Weren't those cute kids? I loved having him on. I think
00:47:32.820
Aaron O'Toole is making a very bad decision. You know, he survived this vote, which was really
00:47:39.300
him or me was the showdown. But I don't think it's going to do him well. I think he's demoralized
00:47:45.060
so much of the party's base, even if you don't like Derek Sloan. I find him likable enough.
00:47:50.340
How can you support this kind of cancel culture process? I just don't think it makes sense. The
00:47:54.660
saddest thing I heard from Derek Sloan is that not a single critic or shadow cabinet minister stood up
00:48:01.940
for his freedom. I find that deeply, deeply disappointing. Well, that's the show for today. Until tomorrow,
00:48:07.780
on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters, to you at home, good night, and keep fighting for free.