Despite “Planet of the Humans,” green leftists still calling oil “dead” (Guest： Tom Harris)
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Summary
Tom Harris from the International Climate Science Coalition joins me to talk about Michael Moore's Planet of the Humans, David Suzuki, Elizabeth May, and Justin Trudeau's new values test for large employers wanting government help with climate change.
Transcript
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Hey Rebels, you're listening to a free audio-only recording of my weekly Wednesday night show
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aptly called The Gun Show. Tonight my guest is Tom Harris from the International Climate
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Science Coalition and we are talking about, yes, once again that movie I cannot seem to
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get enough of and that's Michael Moore's Planet of the Humans. Who in their right mind, myself
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included, would think that I would ever even enjoy a Michael Moore movie let alone become
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moderately enthusiastic about one but here we are. 2020 is the strangest year on record.
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Now we're talking about a few other things on the show too so things will be fresh and new and
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interesting I promise. If you like listening to the show then you're going to love watching it but in
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The Planet of the Humans, David Suzuki, Elizabeth May and Trudeau's new values test for large
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employers wanting government help. I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed and you're watching The Gunn Show.
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You know I fully recognize I've been talking a lot about Michael Moore's new movie Planet of the
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Humans but I've had no shortage of really great guests with unique perspectives who want to come
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on my show and talk about that movie. It's a documentary made very clearly through the
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anti-capitalist lens that we know Michael Moore creates his movies through. But in amongst Moore's
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anti-capitalist, anti-human, anti-fossil fuel agenda is some harsh truth about the dirty nature of green
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energy that the green left cannot handle and doesn't want you to know about green energy.
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Now far from Hollywood however in a city just as fake and frivolous that's right Ottawa left-wing
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politicians have an all-out war on the oil and gas industry. Liz May has declared oil dead but the
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Green Party leader has one of the longest commutes in the House of Commons made possible of course
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by fossil fuels. Trudeau on the other hand is blackmailing companies with a climate change condition
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added into the bailout for large employers seeking government help to preserve Canadian jobs during
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the COVID-19 lockdown. And of course over at CBC David Suzuki is looking at the lockdown as some
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sort of ghoulish opportunity to rewrite the entire world into a green way. Translation unsustainable
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way. Joining me tonight to talk about all these issues is Tom Harris from the International Climate
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Science Coalition in an interview we recorded yesterday afternoon.
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Joining me now from his home in Ottawa is Tom Harris from the International Climate Science Coalition.
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And Tom like you I cannot get enough of Michael Moore's new documentary Planet of the Humans.
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I don't know it's it's got everything it's got all the things that we've been talking about from a
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climate realism perspective and a and a skeptical eye at green energy and and how green energy is really
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just sort of a fraud. But also the screeching and harping of the left it it's pleasing me a lot
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that this criticism is coming from one of their own. But you have really done an in-depth examination
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of Michael Moore's new movie. And so I thought I'd have you on to talk about it. So welcome to the show.
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Yeah. Yeah. It's great to be on Sheila. Yeah that film is is truly amazing and I do encourage people to
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watch it. I mean it makes incredibly good points like you just said. But you know it is fundamentally
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flawed in three ways. First of all he thinks that we are causing dangerous climate change. Secondly he
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thinks that fossil fuels are bad. And thirdly he thinks that capitalism is the root of all evil when
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it comes to environmental degradation. But you know I'd like to describe to you how he's both right and
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wrong with an analogy. Great. Let's pretend let's pretend we go back to medieval times and there was a town that
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believed in dragons. And they thought their village was being threatened by dragons. And it turned out
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that the mayor of the town was a manufacturer of toothpicks. So he convinced the people that they could
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defend themselves against the dragons by using toothpicks. Well like in the Emperor's New Clothes
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a child points out well you can't kill a dragon with a toothpick. That's ridiculous. And so Michael Moore is
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very much like the child in this movie. He's right that you can't kill dragons. In this case you can't
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stop climate change with wind and solar power. It's ridiculous. But he believes that we are
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actually being invaded by dragons. He thinks that there is dangerous climate change. So it's really
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interesting. It's a mixed message. You know the movie is wonderful. It's done. Production is
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incredible. I mean you know you're not bored even for a second. Even though it's a long film. It's an hour
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in 40 minutes. But the bottom line is that he shows that in fact many of the myths of the green
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energy deal are actually ridiculous. You know for example it's okay to take the top off a mountain
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to put up wind killing bird turbines. But you can't do it for coal. You know and so he says well
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these kinds of things are ludicrous. And he asked some of the people that he interviews well what's going
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on here. And they say point blank the green energy advocates are lying. So you know it's a civil war
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that's going to erupt. In fact has already started within the green movement. And hooray you know let
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them fight each other. It'll make them weaker overall. Yeah it's funny that Michael Moore is making a lot of
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the points that Patrick Moore has made all along. That you know what is being presented to us as green.
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And you use a great example of the top of the the mountain being chopped off for wind turbines.
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And everybody says yes green energy is going to lead the way to the future. And if a coal mine wants
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to do that same thing and then reclaim the coal mine after. Everybody says oh that's damaging to the
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environment. Look what you've done to that mountain. It can never be replaced. It's very very strange.
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But that was my takeaway from the movie too is this is still Michael Moore being the general Michael
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Moore anti-capitalist that he seems to be in all of his movies. He's just recognizing that green
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capitalism is as crooked as all the other crony capitalism he points out in some of his other
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movies. Yeah. You know so it's still Michael Moore being Michael Moore and for a capitalist he's sure
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figured out that conservatives are willing to pay and support someone who will tell us exactly what
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we've been screaming at the clouds all along. That green energy is a fraud. That you know that it requires
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fossil fuel backup and that it can never support life as we know it. Yeah exactly. And he doesn't seem
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to understand that if you actually look at other forms of government other than capitalism and free
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market enterprise what you find is that socialism is far worse for the environment. When the Soviet
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Union collapsed we saw incredible environmental degradation. You know the solution is not to reduce
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the number of people which is what he's talking about indirectly. It's a kind of Malthusian approach.
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What the real solution is to make our humanity more wealthy. Because right now almost a billion
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people in the world do not have access to electricity. Okay now that is a real crime against humanity quite
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frankly because we have plenty of energy. All kinds of energy. We have enough coal for centuries. We have
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natural gas through fracking for centuries. You know so keeping people poor means they don't really care
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about the environment. And you remember in our past discussions we talked about the Kuznets curve
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where at first as a society develops the environmental degradation increases. You get to a certain point
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where people's basic needs are satisfied then they care about the environment and the environmental
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degradation goes down. So we want people to be wealthy because that's when they care about the environment.
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Yeah that was a strange point that Michael Moore did make in that movie that you know that he contends
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there should be fewer people on the surface of the earth because some people live in poverty some people
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live in energy poverty. So you know for me and for you and let me put words in your mouth here we just want
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those people to have energy. I want them to exist on the face of the earth. I want them to have access
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to cheap affordable energy. For Michael Moore on the flip side for him it's not getting them access to
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clean affordable energy. For him it's that those people just shouldn't really exist. Yeah exactly and
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in fact in many ways you know Africa has access it should have access to coal, natural gas, oil but
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environmentalists want Africans to develop with energy sources that we can't afford. Things like wind and
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solar power and you know the whole concept that fossil fuels is bad which unfortunately our federal
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government and some provincial governments actually think is completely backwards. I mean fossil fuels
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have been in many ways the salvation of civilization and I'd like to read you a quick quote here from
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Dr. Roger Besdek okay from the management information services. He was speaking he was a keynote speaker
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extremely good at the America First Energy Conference in Houston in November 2017. He said
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what has fossil fuels done for us recently? They are the foundation of our current economy. They
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created and sustained the modern world. They permit the current high quality of life we all enjoy. Over
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the past two centuries life expectancy has more than doubled. Population increased eightfold. Real incomes
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have increased worldwide more than elevenfold. So thank goodness for fossil fuels they've been an incredible
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boon and also you know they've actually saved the environment in many ways because England was on the
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verge of having no forests at all because they were cutting all their trees down for building ships and
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for fuel and all sorts of things and of course the coal revolution came along and once we learned how to
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control the pollution from coal coal has become an excellent energy source. You know that's a great point
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that you made about Africa and I was sort of writing it down as you went. I know a lot of Canadian expats who've
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spent a lot of time working in the oil fields in Africa because that's a place that can utilize their
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expertise because there's not a lot happening in the Canadian oil patch right now and the environmental
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movement and you see this all the time at the UN climate change conferences. They want the people in Africa to go from
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digging a well by hand digging a well by hand and walking several kilometers every single day
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to a well to carry water on a bucket home on their head. They want them to skip over the part where
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a well is dug using fossil fuels and then you just drive your car to the well and drive home and it takes five
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minutes to digging a well somehow with solar energy and then using a renewable green energy car
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in Africa where poverty is high to get to the well to bring the water home. Like they want to skip over
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that whole easy affordable step right in the middle to this grandiose scheme and they really think that
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this is a feasible idea for Africa that is sitting on oil. It's crazy. Yeah yeah it's true and they also
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have to realize that you know the lithium-ion batteries that are used to power these electric cars that are
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going to supposedly save us. Where do you think they get the lithium? They get it from China with horrible
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environmental conditions and Africa with child labor. You know I mean it's it's really incredible
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to think that you know so many children in Africa live and die in lithium mines and the rare earth elements
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that are used in wind turbines. Where do they come from? Well China is the major supplier which has terrible
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environmental conditions. So yeah the whole thing is ludicrous to think that somehow electric cars with lithium
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batteries and how do you charge the batteries? It's fossil fuels again you know or nuclear. So yeah the
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whole thing it doesn't make any sense and that is the way that Michael Moore's film has made a huge
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contribution. Just staying on Michael Moore's film for a second because the screeching of the left
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even though the movie advocates ideas that are you know still popular on the left like anti-capitalism and
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those sorts of things and eugenics quite frankly. Yeah. He he's on the receiving end of some pretty
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serious and high profile calls to have his movie censored. Yeah. On the flip side you know they're and
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they're saying we need to censor this movie because it is full of dangerous misinformation.
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Okay great. The film's full of dangerous correct information. Dangerous if you're a supporter of
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wind and solar because of course it talks about you know the impact on the environment the millions of
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birds that are killed all over the world by these things. Bats as well you know we spoke about that
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in Spain. Yeah we sure did and you know it's funny that um instead of creating a movie to argue for the
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other side which the left I mean the left owns Hollywood. If you want to produce a movie that
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tells the tale of green energy and shows it in a glowing light you have a dozen uh producers a dozen
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directors and all the actors in Hollywood save for as many as I can count on a hand lining up to star
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in your movie to do voiceovers to do whatever it'll be premiered to much fanfare at any film festival
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go and tell the story don't advocate for censorship. I mean yeah let's talk about um an inconvenient
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truth full you want to talk about full of misinformation that's the one because now looking
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back a couple decades later we can see all the all the things that didn't unfold but I don't want it
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censored. I would like everybody to see it because I want everybody to see just how wrong um that movie
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is and yeah it's right I mean instead of dealing with the issues and arguing the ideas uh censorship
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is the immediate de facto response from the left on any idea they disagree with and now climate change
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is the new battleground for free speech. Yeah it's really strange you know historically the left always
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prided themselves on being tolerant of alternative points of view and in fact if you go back to Europe
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at the time when Einstein was talking about his first theory of relativity it was the German
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conservatives who were afraid that it would threaten their worldview and the German liberals
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were supporting him and wanted him to be able to speak out but things have switched and climate change is
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just one of many examples where the left are the worst of the censors you know I tried to post on the
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CBC website for example some questions and a link to my video in our article about the COVID thing
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about the fact that they're not doing random testing so they really don't have any idea how
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many people across Canada are carrying it but have no symptoms uh and and within minutes the censor took
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my comment right off now happily I saved it in both cases and I sent it to the CBC audience relations and
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I said this fulfills all of your submission guidelines you know there's no swearing there's nothing nothing
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nasty going on you say you accept external links but you have deleted it why is that and all audience
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relations would say is it was appropriate for your submission to be deleted and I said well how
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and no answer you know so yeah the censorship on the left has become really incredible um just moving
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along now that you've brought up CBC because I wanted to ask you about um one of CBC's um I guess
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he's a flagship show star um he's been around I guess for about four decades I've written a book on him
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that became a bestseller um David Suzuki sees the coronavirus as an opportunity to um use it as a
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template to overlay um everything in the battle against climate change and it's funny because when
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you look at the world right now that shut down people are stuck in their houses they can't travel
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nobody can work the um oil industry is in collapse right now um this is the green future they promised
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us but it doesn't quite look the way that everybody thought it would there's no renaissance in the
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economy because of green energy well that's right in fact you hear environmentalists cheering Elizabeth May
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saying oil is dead you know well okay Elizabeth and who's going to pay your salary you know I mean
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the bottom line is if you cut off your source of income and you know fossil fuels are one of the
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absolute most important sources of income for Canada like how are you going to run the country how are you
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going to have all these social programs you know and and Suzuki and companies seem to totally ignore
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the fact that wind turbines are really bad for people too and you know there's a really interesting
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quote if I can read it to you it's uh actually supporting what Michael Mann says indirectly
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Sherry Lang who's the CEO of the North American platform against wind power here's what she writes
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more than just audible sound grinding whomping blade passing whooshes an ever-present hum industrial
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wind turbines have a silent below audible impact it's not like a day contamination harm at work where
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people can go home at night for relief with industrial wind projects literally engulfing
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homes and rural areas there is little or no escape so the bottom line is that this is hurting not the
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rich people because you can be sure it doesn't they don't get 60-story wind turbines put beside
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uh you know Trudeau's home but it's the poorer people or the average people who have to put up with
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these for the sake of what uh it's really virtue signaling because the amount of energy you save
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is like none because you have to as you say have backup plants it kills millions of birds and bats
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uh and it makes life miserable for the people that live nearby I mean imagine trying to sell your house
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and you've got like in Shelley Correa's case you have a 60-story wind turbine 500 meters from your house
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oh well we don't really notice that no one's gonna buy your house so yeah it's it's nuts and as I say
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the civil war that's now erupting is extremely good uh for people who actually support sensible
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environmental protection yeah I remember there was a sun news documentary um before sun news went
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off the air and it was called I believe downwind and it uh pointed out that there seemed to be some
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health implications for people who live near or under these wind turbines and a lot of it has to do with
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the pressure created by these wind turbines and uh that animals are responsive to them and it can cause
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uh problems with farm animals and farm production being close to these wind turbines and that seems
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to be where they put them is in valuable arable farmland well yeah and it's really sad because
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Shelley moved out to West Lincoln Ontario which is almost like Andy of Mayberry's town you know I mean
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it's a very very quiet place because her boy needed that kind of quiet and uh Kathleen Wynne promised
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they wouldn't be putting turbines in close to her home and they did anyways you know and and the thing
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is I mean just like Michael Moore says these things use thousands of tons of concrete and of course
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concrete if you're concerned about co2 which is which I'm not because I don't think we're actually
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causing a climate crisis co2 of course is plant food but if you were concerned the last thing you
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want to do is build massive wind turbines with steel you have to process exotic materials um rare earth
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elements and tons and tons of concrete at the base not only that of course as you said earlier you have
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to clear the whole area so I mean I can't think of anything less environmentally friendly and as poor
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people like Shelley Correa have found yeah the governments in the past didn't keep their promises I think
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Ford should be taking these down quite frankly yes I do too now last thing I want to talk to you
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about well not quite last thing but um I wanted to talk to you about how Trudeau has shoehorned another
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values test into yet another bailout he hammered a values test into the summer jobs grant for some
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reason you had to believe in transgenderism to uh run a summer camp he did the same thing with the
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small business bailout they have to make a profession of not discriminating on any number of things
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before they can apply for a small business bailout now the big businesses um have to uh have some sort
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of climate plan before they can apply for the big business bailout for large job creators and I promise you
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this it's not going to affect a single uh Quebec engineering firm or concrete plant this is directly
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designed to make sure that Alberta oil companies don't get access to any federal dollars yeah they're
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killing the goose that's laying the golden egg for Canada's programs and social you know all across
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the board I mean it's really crazy I mean the bottom line is we want society to come back as strongly
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as possible with the most reliable and dependable and least expensive energy sources wind and solar
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worrying about climate change you know which of course happens naturally all the time and Canada's
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impact you know this is the thing that is truly uh shows that it's all virtue signaling on the part of
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Trudeau Canada's impact to overall human carbon dioxide emissions is something in the neighborhood of
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1.6 percent of the world okay so if it was true that we had a climate crisis that was caused by
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CO2 emissions our CO2 emissions have virtually zero impact anyways and you know it's kind of like if
00:24:23.860
you were sitting on a lifeboat an inflatable life raft and somebody was ripping it apart with a chainsaw
00:24:29.700
and you were using a pin and everybody's yelling at you stop destroying the lifeboat you know so even if
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you think that CO2 is a serious problem it's ludicrous for Canada to just virtue signal cripple our
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industries when countries like China and India are paying far far more and they're not going to
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reduce anytime soon so yeah don't don't tie up these things together I mean we want the least expensive
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most affordable uh best energy sources to help us get back on our feet and it's going to be very hard
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to get back on our feet the last thing we need to do is cripple ourselves with inefficient and really
00:25:06.940
quite stupid energy sources or a climate plan oh come on you know 0.6 degrees or something oh sorry
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one degree celsius since 1880 has been the rise and you sort of say that's a climate crisis come on
00:25:21.860
trudeau get off that well yeah and I think you guys had snow in Ontario this past week we had snow here
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the other day I mean it it here's the thing uh the U.S. is embracing fossil fuels they are embracing
00:25:36.880
manufacturing I think they're going to see a renaissance in American manufacturing because
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Trump is bringing manufacturing back to the United States and sort of disengaging with Chinese
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manufacturing Canada's doing the opposite yeah thank goodness but Canada's doing the opposite and I
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think it's going to cripple us um at the end of this uh yeah yeah and you know China in many ways
00:25:59.540
is the beneficiary of the climate scare yes because if in fact um first of all they have no limits under
00:26:06.180
the Paris agreement till 2030 and even after that there's a clause in the underlying treaty called the
00:26:11.940
framework convention and climate change that says that developing countries and that includes China
00:26:16.640
believe it or not they don't have to actually I mean their first and overriding priority
00:26:21.520
is poverty alleviation development so you can be sure after 2030 they're going to grow their
00:26:27.340
greenhouse gas emissions to heck with the climate because they are focused on sensible objectives
00:26:33.120
of poverty alleviation development and since their major electricity source about 80 percent is coal
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you're going to see lots and lots of coal so you know the idea that somehow Canada is going to lead
00:26:44.180
the world well the world's not following Canada I mean stop sacrificing your own economy and your own
00:26:50.140
people to something that first of all makes no sense scientifically but secondly even if it did
00:26:55.420
the rest of the world's not going to follow I mean wake up well you know Tom are you saying that China
00:27:02.620
would game the system to their own benefit that's outrageous uh oh wow yeah of course they are
00:27:09.580
I know that they'd lie um Tom where can people find um the work that you do I know that you uh
00:27:17.740
frequently write articles as things on the client climate science front come on your radar and more
00:27:24.700
importantly how can they support the work that you do because you're one of a handful a very small
00:27:30.380
handful of people in Canada willing to do this kind of work yeah sure people should go to our website which
00:27:36.940
is climate science international dot org and there's a little donate button and we get everything
00:27:42.780
from ten dollars to a thousand dollars to five dollars and it you know as soon as you give us any
00:27:48.860
donation at all we keep you up to date on all of our publishings and uh you know we welcome anybody to
00:27:54.540
support us we're not like the rebel we're not supported by government you can be sure of that
00:27:59.500
because they would not support us if well because they see what we do we tell the truth and we say when
00:28:05.340
the government's miles off base which they are certainly on this covid climate recovery it's
00:28:11.580
ridiculous now you also have a podcast you better plug your podcast oh right it's exploratory journeys
00:28:17.740
and in fact the first entry right now on our home page climate science international dot org is an
00:28:23.420
interview I had with Ian Clark who's a professor at Ottawa U and once you click into that interview you
00:28:28.540
can see all of our podcasts and you know they're quite fun actually yeah they're great they're informative
00:28:34.220
and uh I think you have a very soothing voice and I listen to you on the treadmill uh okay thank you
00:28:40.460
and I listen to you on my treadmill too great Tom thanks so much for coming on the show we'll have
00:28:45.420
you back on again very very soon because I feel like things are going to get real crazy out there
00:28:52.540
um especially on the climate change front as we come out of the coronavirus um we're going to move
00:28:57.660
from one crisis to the next I think oh geez yeah well thanks Sheila thanks Tom
00:29:10.860
I suppose one of the reasons that I cannot stop talking about Michael Moore's documentary
00:29:16.060
is because the left doesn't want me to talk about it they don't want me to see it they don't want you
00:29:21.660
to see it they don't want the information inside that documentary out into the rest of the world
00:29:27.500
they don't want hearts and minds on their side of the aisle being changed by someone from their side
00:29:35.020
of the aisle who is presenting information in a way that is designed for them to digest Michael Moore just
00:29:43.820
might nuke their movement and uh I couldn't be happier about it the more people tell me not to
00:29:50.460
say and do things the more I'm inclined to do them that's just my nature um and I think it's sort of a
00:29:56.860
conservative thing we believe in freedom not compliance for the sake of compliance well everybody
00:30:04.300
that's the show for tonight thank you so much for tuning in I'll see everybody back here in the same
00:30:08.540
time in the same place next week and remember don't let the government tell you that you've had too much to think