EZRA LEVANT ｜ Alberta has gone from normal to crazy back to normal again
Episode Stats
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Summary
Calgary, Alberta has gone from normal to crazy, and the CBC wants them to flip back to crazy. Do you think they'll be able to hold the line? That's the topic for today's show, hosted by Ezra Levenant.
Transcript
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Hello, my rebels. Today I look at Alberta, which has decided it's done with COVID. It's not going
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to have the obsessive press conferences talking about cases. It's not going to give tests to
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people who have no symptoms. It's not going to mandatory quarantines for people with the sniffles.
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It's going to treat it as an endemic disease like the flu. Well, needless to say, that has
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created outrage from the public health class, the lockdownists. Do you think they'll be able
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to hold the line? That's the topic for today's show. I'll get to that in a second, but first
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let me invite you to become a subscriber to Rebel News Plus. Eight bucks a month, half the price
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of Netflix, twice the fun. You get my daily show, plus Sheila Gunn-Reed, David Menzies, and Andrew
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Tonight, Alberta has gone from normal to crazy, back to almost normal again, and the CBC wants
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them to flip back to crazy. It's August 2nd, and this is the Ezra LeVant Show.
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Why should others go to jail when you're a biggest carbon consumer I know?
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There's 8,500 customers here, and you won't give them an answer.
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The only thing I have to say to the government about why I publish it is because it's my bloody
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For the longest time, Alberta did not do the lockdown insanity. It just resisted. I think
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a lot of the lockdownism in the United States was partisan. It was from the Democrats,
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which, you know, they love the public health deep state. They love control. They love crises.
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They don't really care about small businesses or individual liberty. And they also love the idea
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of public sector teachers unions getting paid, but not having to go to school. But mainly,
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the lockdown was a way of hurting Donald Trump, who was cruising to a re-election before COVID-19.
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Not only did the man-made recession and crisis hurt him, a lot of fear, but, of course, the excuse to
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have mail-in ballots, as Joel Pollack told us, that was what lost it for Trump, the legal changes
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to voting rules mid-campaign. Anyways, in Canada, I think Alberta sympathized the most with Republican
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sentiments, whereas, say, Toronto really wishes it were New York and mimics New York's politics
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and tastes like a, I don't know, 11-year-old girl might watch her mom putting on makeup and copycat.
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It's sad, really, how much of Toronto's political identity, at least on certain things, is so
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seamlessly built around an inferiorly complex about New York. I mean, how many people in Toronto read
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the New York Times thinking they're like honorary New Yorkers for doing so, who watch Saturday Night
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Live as their political humor? It's sort of pitiful. I say that as a Torontonian. So,
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of course, the Toronto, Ontario Cool Kids wanted to copy the hard lockdowns and that whole aesthetic
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of New York and other blue states in the U.S., but Calgary isn't part of that Cool Kids Club.
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Alberta's different. It didn't go mad. Alberta and British Columbia, to an extent, and Saskatchewan,
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to an extent, they just weren't part of the Cool Kids Club, so they didn't feel like they had to copy
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that. Until one day, Alberta just utterly collapsed and became insanely locked down, and there was no
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justification for it. Hospitals were never overwhelmed, never even close. Cases went up,
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but what does that mean? What's a case? It's not someone being sick. It's not a hospital or an ICU
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visitor or a ventilator or whatever. Suddenly, Alberta swung from the most sane to the most crazy,
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and it was evident that even Alberta's ruling class didn't believe what they were doing.
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So many cabinet ministers and MLAs and even Premier Jason Kenney's own chief of staff
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all just went on holiday over Christmas when they had just told everyone else to avoid unnecessary
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travel. Some of them did that fake thing where they posed for Christmas photos pretending to be
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in Alberta and then published them later when they were actually in Vegas or Hawaii. So, they were all
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caught, and it made Albertans so mad. And just at the moment where they were being locked down hard,
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the ruling class was out partying. It wasn't that Albertans think traveling is a sin. No, Albertans
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believe that other than the lockdown cultists and the NDP and the media party and the public health
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deep state, I think normal Albertans knew the lockdown was BS, and they knew that Kenney knew.
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And then to see that the rules were being implemented but not followed by the rule makers,
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that was too much. And Kenney dug in it first. He argued that traveling was good for the economy
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or whatever he said, which no one disagreed with. They weren't anti-travel. They just note the
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hypocrisy, the double standard. One law for the little people who are locked down, one law for
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the rulers. And when that happened again this spring with one of the strictest lockdowns in the
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country, and Kenney and his abominable health minister, Tyler Shandro, were having that boozy party
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at the Sky Palace, literally looking down at regular people like ants, barking out lockdown orders while they
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themselves break the lockdown rules. Well, that just cemented the whole thing as a fraud and
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hypocrisy. They didn't get it then either, did they? I mean, this clip says it all.
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You know, it's the first time I've heard of, Mr. Speaker, I can assure the member that Jameson's
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is a nice Irish whiskey, but it's not the finest. It's a budget liquor, Mr. Speaker.
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If your answer to a question about breaking the lockdown in a palatial private lounge is to say
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that a $50 bottle of whiskey is economy whiskey, as if that answers the underlying grievance instead
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of proving it. That suggests that, in fact, you have been too long at the Sky Palace. And
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indeed they have. They have been insulated. They've never met real people. That's anti-gathering
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rules, social distancing. The media didn't hold them to account, other than to demand more
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lockdowns. Same with the NDP opposition. They were all living in a weird world of public
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health echo chambers. So I think it was genuinely a shock for them when actual citizens had the
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first chance to talk to their politicians this month, or July 1st, when they spoke back.
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I think that these politicians were in such an insulated bubble, they genuinely thought
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they were beloved, that everyone supported the lockdown.
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What do you got to say, Chandro, for your war crimes? What do you got to say? Crimes against
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humanity, medical coercion. You made a lot of kids cry, buddy. You're a murderer.
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Alberta's Minister of Health, Tyler Chandro, holding on to his son as protesters surrounded
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him and his family during Canada Day celebrations in Calgary. The protesters yelling insults and
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directing some of the abuse towards Chandro's children.
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I'm sorry, buddy, but your father is a war criminal.
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Now, I don't agree with talking to his kid, but I absolutely believe in the right of citizens
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to heckle politicians at public events. It's in our Constitution, you might recall.
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So Alberta's lockdown was truly one of the worst. Giant stores like Walmart or Costco were allowed
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to stay open. Liquor stores and cannabis stores allowed to stay open. And they were limited only
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with a percentage of their fire code capacity. So something like, let's say, 20% of their normal
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capacity. Measured as a percent, though, you see? But only churches and other houses of worship
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had absolute fixed number limits, no matter how large the building. 15 people. Even for big
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cathedrals, massive megachurches, 15 people total. 10 for a funeral. What? Five of the
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theater was outdoors. Huh? That makes no sense. But it was not about science or health.
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The NHL was allowed to play and practice hockey and go to restaurants with their whole entourage
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while kids' sports were canceled. The Bachelorette was allowed to film a whole show in Jasper.
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No social distancing, to say the least. But churches were penalized. You can't go to a
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funeral at a church. It was outrageous. It was the worst in the country. Four pastors
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were sent to prison. James Coates of Edmonton for 35 days, Tim Stevens of Calgary, Arthur Pavlovsky
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of Calgary, his brother David Pavlovsky. The worst, Alberta went from the lightest lockdown
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to the most authoritarian. No reason, either. The worst of the bullying. The worst of the
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anti-Christian bias. The worst enforcement. The stupidest. But that's not really Alberta,
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is it? There was a mini revolt of the caucus after the Christmas vacation business. Cabinet
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ministers were sacked, which is pretty dramatic. The premier's own chief of staff was sacked,
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pretty dramatic. And then another revolt after the Sky Palace, when the lockdown was denounced
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by more than a dozen MLAs, too many for the government to fire them all. And you know,
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I think our rebel news journalism and activism really helped focus the issue. Certainly the
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NDP and the media party didn't. So I think it was as much for reasons of political fatigue
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as any health statistics that on July 1st, Alberta lifted the lockdown on gatherings, including churches.
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And just late last week, Alberta made final changes that relegated COVID-19 to the same status
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of any other endemic disease. Like the flu. It's just always around. And use your wits and common
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sense. But there's not going to be this whole cottage industry built around it anymore. No more
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panic porn press conferences. No more BS scaremongering about this variant or that number of
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cases. All of which is deliberately unintelligible. Deliberately designed not to be understood,
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but merely to be feared. So as of a couple days ago, there's no more testing for people who have no
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symptoms. Why would you test someone without a symptom? It was always iffy. The PCR tests were
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notoriously false, giving false positives. Didn't have any medical meaning. No mandatory quarantine
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anymore. There isn't for the flu. No mask mandates. No school closures. Life is normal now.
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Because you know what? It is normal. The abominable, sorry, the abnormal part in terms of health issues.
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The lockdown was the abnormal part. Now, I have to mention that Alberta's health bureaucrats are
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still prosecuting Arthur and David Pawlowski. That's not normal. Tyler Shandro wants to throw
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them back in prison for 21 days because they won't apologize. Seriously. The use of that word in their
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legal documents filed at court, you can see that at saveArthur.com. They want to throw him back in
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prison for 21 days because he won't say sorry. But other than that bizarre, petty vengeance and
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bullying by Tyler Shandro against Arthur and his brother. Other than that, Alberta today is the
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same pretty much as Alberta before the lockdowns, at least in terms of the law. Well, that can't be
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allowed. I mean, as this American panic porn expert says, it's like Florida North. I now crown Alberta as
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the new Florida of Canada. Get a positive COVID-19 test. No need to isolate, says new horrible rules by
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heinously irresponsible medical health officer. Yeah, Florida's pretty terrible. The freest and
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healthiest and best state in the union, especially when you consider how many seniors live there. By
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the way, this doctor, Eric Fagelding, he's not a medical doctor, but he pretends to be one on
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Twitter. Here's an actual MD. When Alberta going full Florida, with Alberta going full Florida on COVID
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measures, there's now three distinct approaches in Canada to containing the virus. How do we protect the
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rest of the country from the mistakes of the let it rip crowd? How do we ensure we can keep numbers
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down and open schools safely? You know, he's an expert and you should trust him about Alberta
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because he lives in Toronto. And according to this map, he thinks Alberta and BC are the same place
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and that locking down millions of people in Ontario and destroying lives and jobs and families and
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ruining school and childhood. That's being careful, he says. Pretty sure that doctor hasn't lost a day's
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pay in the last 18 months. Calgary's socialist mayor thinks it's insane. He loves masks.
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Not for health reasons. I mean, Naheed Nenshu, I used to know well when we were in school together.
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He's always been physically sort of the same as me. He weighs about an eighth of a ton,
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as I like to say. So you know he deeply cares about health. And you know his mask will probably
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take care of all his problems. No, he just likes the social control. Here's to those national posts
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that get 140 grand a week from him. The bad news is you have COVID. The good news is you're in Alberta.
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I think that's meant as an insult, but it's actually true. Here's the stats for those in Alberta that
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Colby Kosh put together. 100% recovery rate for anyone young at all. 99.5% recovery for pretty much
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anyone under 60. So most people, yeah, if you get COVID in those age groups, you're almost certainly
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going to be fine. In Ontario, they treat you as a leper. In Alberta, you can use your judgment
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like you would for the flu, which happens to kill thousands of people a year, but for which we let
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people live their lives. You know, some TV doctors who are worried they will no longer be reality TV
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stars anymore. And their careers as celebrities are coming to a close. They're furious. Removal of
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Alberta's remaining COVID-19 protocols sparks outrage among physicians. Oh, well, man. A group of doctors
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plan to gather the Manougal Center in Calgary over the noon hour on Friday to voice concerns about
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Alberta dropping mandatory health measures for COVID-19. Yeah, COVID fear porn is over. TV doctor's
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hardest hit, I guess. Now, I support these doctors having their freedom of speech and giving their
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political advice. I would invite them to run for office as part of a lockdown party. Maybe that's
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just another way of saying the NDP. But if they want to be doctors, be doctors. Give advice to their
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patients. I'm not their patient. They're not doctors to the whole province. If they want to be
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legislators, run for office. I encourage it. I really do. Let's finally put these lockdown ideas to a
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public test. You know what's the giveaway? That this isn't about health, but it's about political
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control. You know what tipped me off? It's all they talk about rules, lockdowns, bullying. It's like
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those classic mask enforcer cell phone videos we see. They never run up to someone without a mask and
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say, put your mask on, you'll get sick. Or even, put your mask on, I'll get sick. They never say that.
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Have you ever seen that? I never have. They always make the argument about authority.
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Put your mask on. That's the rule. Or more honestly, put your mask on. If I have to, you do too.
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And that was all obedience conditioning, these masks. Obedience conditioning for the vaccines.
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Look at this from the Globe and Mail. It's time to get tough with vaccine resistors. Can you imagine
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talking that way about any other medical condition, any other experimental drug?
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I am tired of this gentle persuasion business. We continue to pander to a group who, in many cases,
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is simply too lazy to sign up to get a shot. Yeah, that's it. Laziness. This from a journalist for a
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living, calling someone else lazy? Or they continue to embrace crackpot conspiracy theories and
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misinformation being spread on social media. We patiently hope that they will wake up and see the
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light one day. Meanwhile, they're recalcitrant effects of rest. Yeah, those crackpots with their
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misinformation. Gee, why don't they obey? People should not be walking around with masks. Let me
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just state for the record that masks are not theater. Wearing a mask might make people feel
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a little bit better. Masks are protective. But it's not providing the perfect protection that people
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think that it is. There has not been any indication that putting a mask on and wearing a mask for a
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considerable period of time has any deleterious effects. There are unintended consequences.
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People keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face. And can you get some schmutz
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sort of staying inside there? Of course. You do not need to wear a mask indoors if, in fact,
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you've been vaccinated. Good that you're vaccinated. But in a situation where you have people indoors,
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particularly crowded, you should wear a mask. So even if you are vaccinated, you should wear a mask.
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If, in fact, you are vaccinated, fully vaccinated, you are protected, and you do not need to wear a
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mask outdoors or indoors. When the children go out into the community, you want them to continue to
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wear masks. You know, if you look at children outside, particularly when they're with the family
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walking down the street, playing a game or what have you, don't have to wear a mask.
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The pediatric, the Academy of Pediatric, actually makes that recommendation that children should be
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wearing masks from two years old onward. And you're asking now if your child is a member of
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your household, can you walk outdoors with your child without a mask? According to that chart,
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the answer is yes. But the child can't, not to beat it to death. Yes, yes. Because now the CDC says,
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I mean, I think I've got this right. One mask is better than zero masks. Two masks is better than
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one mask. But you don't have to have double masks. Is that right? I mean, it became clear that cloth
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coverings that you didn't have to buy in a store that you could make yourself were adequate. And
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then you want it to fit better. So one of the ways you could do it if you would like to is put a cloth
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mask over, which actually here and here and here where you could get leakage in is much better
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contained. Are you a double masker, Dr. Fauci? Look like you are. It's time governments in this
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country get tough. We need vaccine mandates and we need them now. He's so butch. Never pretend that
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the media believes in your civil rights. They don't. They only believe in your civil rights,
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well, for their pet causes, not for you. People who refuse to get vaccinated should not have the
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same privileges as the rest of us. They should not be able to sit in restaurants or bars. They should
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not be able to work out in gyms. They definitely should not be able to work in long-term care homes
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or hospitals. Get ready for about 40% of the nurses to quit. Hey, anything else, by the way,
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should fat people or people who drink or cheesecake or have a certain kind of sex, should they also be
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banned from public places? And can we demand them to tell us their private information? Can I get a list
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of all the bad things that are nobody's business that I can demand to ask strangers and ban them
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from things? And this newspaper guy wants to ban people from a restaurant. He's neither the customer
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nor the restaurant, but he just wants to really ban things. Mention these people pretending they ever
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cared about the Charter of Rights. In the meantime, we continue to get down on bended knee and plead with
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people to get vaccinated. Not for a second do they ever think they could be wrong, hey? That there could
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be a reason why people don't want to get vaxxed, whether they have natural immunity from recovering
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from COVID already or whether they're so young the vax is a greater threat to their health and the
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disease. Or if they have a religious objection or if they just want to wait a bit before taking
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experimental drug. Maybe they want to get pregnant. Maybe they're pregnant already. They don't want to
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take these meds. In fact, wouldn't you say the harder and more extreme the shouting, the sneering,
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the condescension, the more doubt they'll sow? If you have a position, an idea, are you more persuaded
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to change it from a bully who's calling you names like the globe is and threatening you? Or from
00:19:24.600
someone who can appeal to your underlying concerns and say, I know what you're worried about. Can I give
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you some information? I couldn't imagine a worse vaccine salesman than these people. Stay with us for
00:19:35.800
more. Well, the whole world has been on pause for 18 months or so, it seems. The only thing that
00:19:52.740
people have been talking about is COVID, not so much the virus, but the lockdown and the lockdownism,
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how it's changed so much of our lives. Where once masks were optional, now you're a double masker or
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you hate grandma. Now you're a double vaxxer or you hate grandma. Now I hear triple vaxxing is in
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vogue, even though it doesn't help. Vaccine passports are on the way. We saw signs the other day popping up
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in airports across Canada for separate segregated lines, depending on your private medical details.
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I don't think we're going to be out of it anytime soon. But as the panic, I think, is replaced in
00:20:30.980
some people's minds with skepticism and hesitation to believe the public health deep state, other issues
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are reemerging. And we see, for example, how Alberta once again gets the short end of the stick.
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The latest insult was Justin Trudeau appointing a liberal patronage appointment to the Senate
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on behalf of Albertans mere months away from when that province has scheduled a province-wide
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Senate election. Let me say that again. Although appointing senators is the prerogative of the
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federal government, the government of Alberta has for decades now held Senate elections. Trudeau,
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seeing that, went ahead and basically said, I don't care about your election. I'm going to appoint
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my patronage appointee. And what are you going to even do about it? That's a really good question,
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isn't it? Because when the question is put to Quebec, what are you going to do about it?
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They have an answer. A perpetual revolutionary party called the Bloc Québécois and its provincial
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wing, the Parti Québécois. And if you doubt them, well, they've held to referenda. What can Alberta do
00:21:44.760
to be treated seriously and not just laughed at? Well, the new book has some of the answers. The book is
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called Moment of Truth, How to Think About Alberta's Future. And I really like the cover.
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It's a signpost with different signs. Go it alone. 51st state. Let them freeze. Roll over.
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Pipelines or bust. Build firewall. It's edited by Jack Mintz, Ted Morton, and Dr. Tom Flanagan,
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who joins us now via Skype from Calgary. Dr. Tom, great to see you again. You were my,
00:22:16.900
one of my professors when I went to University of Calgary many years ago. The things we talked about
00:22:21.840
back then, Western alienation, the Reform Party, are things we would talk about now. COVID has
00:22:27.760
drowned them out. But all those same issues, those systemic issues, those problems with
00:22:32.640
Confederation, none of them have been fixed, have they? No. And that's really disappointing
00:22:38.960
because it seemed that our generation was making a lot of progress on that with the foundation of
00:22:44.780
the Reform Party and eventually getting to the point of a national party which could run the
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government. And we did make progress in that period of time. But it's all been pretty much lost.
00:22:56.680
And, you know, the Senate is just one example of Alberta idea, which has now been rejected by the
00:23:06.760
Eastern establishment. But lots of other things, too. The development of the Alberta energy industry
00:23:12.680
has been blockaded by liberal government. You can go down the line of reforms that have been proposed in
00:23:20.700
Alberta. And, you know, they appeared to work temporarily, but in the longer term, they've been
00:23:26.640
beaten back. And that's the setting for this book. You know, where do we go now? What are the options
00:23:31.420
for Alberta? Yeah. I mean, the Senate election in many ways is the least important. It's just
00:23:38.760
symbolic. I mean, the election itself was non-binding, really. Trudeau could appoint anyone he wants under the
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Constitution. But just the ease and casualness with which he stuffed that seat in the middle of a
00:23:51.480
campaign, I think, shows the temperature. I mean, if a guy can kill the Northern Gateway pipeline,
00:23:58.440
the Trans Mountain pipeline, the Energy East pipeline, if he can kill multi-billion dollar
00:24:04.820
projects and throw tens of thousands of people out of work, obviously he'll think nothing of a
00:24:10.320
symbolic slight. Because, like, seriously, what are you going to do about it? And let me put that to
00:24:15.460
you. Yeah. What could Alberta possibly do if it got really mad? Well, that's right. And we canvass
00:24:23.720
some of the possibilities in the book. And of course, one possibility is an outright separatist
00:24:29.480
movement. I guess the editors of the book and most of the authors are not really ready for that,
00:24:36.120
although a couple of the authors, this is a collection of essays, and a couple of the authors do
00:24:39.860
assume a separatist viewpoint. But I guess most of us are willing to try some tactics that haven't yet
00:24:48.240
been tried. One is the upcoming referendum on equalization. It's been talked about for 20
00:24:59.400
years or more ever since the publication of the so-called firewall letter, but hasn't actually been
00:25:05.680
tried. Well, it will be tried this fall. There's a Supreme Court decision which says that if a
00:25:10.760
province requests constitutional discussion on something, other provinces in Ottawa are bound
00:25:15.900
to at least come to the table and discuss it. So that's the point of the referendum on equalization
00:25:20.480
is to provoke a constitutional discussion showing how unfair this program is to Alberta and
00:25:27.680
demanding some change into it. Now, will it succeed? I don't know. But at least it's a step forward
00:25:33.740
that hasn't been tried yet. Another step that could be considered would be creation of Alberta-only
00:25:41.460
programs like Alberta Pension Plan, which again is an idea that goes back to the firewall letter.
00:25:49.540
There are some good economic arguments in favor of it, but COVID has made everybody, you know,
00:25:56.120
kind of afraid of everything. So COVID has really dampened our timetable, I would say. But those are
00:26:05.760
the kind of ideas that you'll find in the book is, well, what can we do? Founding a Western party
00:26:12.500
didn't work out. Well, it worked for a while, you know. I'd say it was great while it lasted. But in the
00:26:19.540
longer run, it's been kind of swallowed up by the system. Yeah. Well, I'm really impressed by the
00:26:25.520
quality of authors and scholars who have written these essays. Like it's a, it's a compendium of
00:26:32.140
views. I mean, Preston Manning writes the first essay. Ted Morton's in there. Donald Savoy.
00:26:37.440
Derek Burney. Barry Cooper. David Berkerson. Like these are, these are not wild eyed, you know,
00:26:47.600
populist rabble rousers. I mean, maybe they are, maybe they would call themselves that as a point
00:26:52.480
of pride. You know, I don't say that as an insult, but I mean, these are PhDs. These are nationally
00:26:58.560
known economists. These are people who have been around for decades and have had, so I mean, you know,
00:27:05.300
maybe I, maybe you'd call yourself a wild eyed man and, and, uh, you know, maybe a couple others
00:27:10.060
were, but putting kidding aside, this is a serious treat. I think this is the first serious treatment
00:27:15.520
of what happens if it doesn't work. And I think this perhaps normalizes a conversation
00:27:23.920
where separatism has to be an option. The reason I say that is if there's no, or else you'll never win
00:27:30.700
a negotiation. I mean, Donald Trump had many flaws, but one of his great strengths is he knew how to
00:27:37.000
negotiate. And the first thing you have to be able to do is walk away from the table, walk away from a
00:27:41.640
bad deal. There has to be an or else. And I don't think Alberta has ever had the or else. There was
00:27:47.020
very briefly Peter Law, he toyed with maybe turning off the taps. Um, but I don't even know if the East
00:27:53.800
would care anymore. They, uh, I don't know. I mean, I'm excited about this book, but it's only a very
00:27:59.000
first step, isn't it? Yeah, it is. And, uh, yeah, thank you for pointing out the quality of the
00:28:04.480
contributors. I think Jack Mintz, uh, the book was his idea and he recruited, uh, many of the
00:28:11.040
contributors. Um, you know, Jack has now become, I would say the leading economic commentator in
00:28:16.820
Canada today on our public policy. And, um, some of the other people are absolutely top drawer like
00:28:23.320
Derek Burney. Uh, you know, Derek was, uh, ambassador to the United States. He was chief of staff
00:28:28.840
uh, for, for the prime minister, for prime minister Mulroney. I mean, this is a guy who
00:28:33.620
really knows his way around government. And Derek has a striking statement in his chapter. He says,
00:28:39.200
you know, if, if Alberta continues to be kicked around as it is now, separatism is a completely
00:28:44.920
understandable response that these are my words, not his, but that's the sentiment of it. So, um,
00:28:51.320
yeah, these are some top flight people in this, uh, in this book and very serious thinkers.
00:28:56.600
Uh, so where will it go? It's, you know, as I say, it's, you're right. It's the first step and
00:29:03.680
that's the way we envisioned it is to, um, give people something to think about, put some ideas
00:29:09.360
on the table. Uh, we are writers and scholars. We obviously aren't going to do this ourselves.
00:29:15.060
Our role is to bring ideas to the surface, but see what the political leaders can come up with.
00:29:21.380
Uh, your, your point about having a threat, I think it's important. And one disappointment for
00:29:27.720
me was, uh, the way that Jason Kenney, the premier of Alberta was a good friend and I support, but,
00:29:33.740
you know, he's gone out of his way to repeatedly say that the separatism is not an option. We won't
00:29:40.720
even talk about it. And I think that takes away the threat right, right at the beginning. And I think
00:29:46.300
you do need that threat. Um, even if you don't talk about it all the time, I think you need it
00:29:50.820
in the background. So anyway, we're at the very early stages here and COVID has scrambled everything.
00:29:58.340
Um, but, uh, I believe we will get back more or less to normal eventually. And these issues are
00:30:05.540
going to come back because this is a perennial problem for Alberta of being exploited, uh,
00:30:11.700
by, by Eastern Canada where, you know, it's all actually very simple when you come right down to it,
00:30:16.820
the votes are in Eastern Canada. Uh, the resource wealth is in Alberta, uh, to some extent, other Western
00:30:23.300
provinces. And it's a, it's a very big temptation for politicians to cater to the votes and appropriate
00:30:30.660
the resource wealth. And, uh, it can be a winning political strategy for long periods of time until
00:30:35.940
the, sometimes the effects become so bad that it has to be suspended, but it keeps coming back
00:30:41.540
because it's, uh, it works. Uh, so Donald Savoy and his, you know, he's one of the top political
00:30:46.740
scientists in Canada, perhaps considered the leading expert on Canadian political institutions. He's from
00:30:52.660
the Maritimes, not a Westerner, but he's got a powerful analysis in that book of how Canadian
00:30:57.780
political institutions are systematically rigged to favor population majorities in central Canada.
00:31:04.420
Yeah. The book's called moment of truth. How to think about Alberta's future. I like this line
00:31:08.740
in the, on the back part brainstorm, part blueprint and part rallying cry. I think that's true. You know,
00:31:16.340
um, I'm glad you mentioned Jason Kenny and I've known him for ages too. We were part of the snack
00:31:21.300
back together who went out with Preston Manning. I mean, Manning, he rose in response to the first
00:31:29.860
wave of Western separatism. Uh, I think some folks forget that the separatist party actually elected
00:31:36.340
an MLA in Alberta in a by-election. Preston Manning said, no, no, the West wants in. It was,
00:31:43.220
it was his counterpoint to separatists say, no, no, let's reform it. We want to stay in. Let's be the
00:31:50.100
do-gooders. Let's be so naively idealistic and our sheer good faith will win over the kleptocrats
00:31:57.300
out East. And, you know, um, we'll accomplish through love what, uh, what these separatists
00:32:03.060
can't do through ferocity. I don't think that succeeded. Stephen Harper, I think, uh, ameliorated
00:32:10.660
a lot of these problems just by, you know, being less hostile to the West and making it more Western
00:32:16.260
friendly. He was helped by a few other things, including, I don't know, strong oil prices. He
00:32:22.020
just didn't get in the way. But here's the thing about Jason Kenney. I think, and I, I mean, I like
00:32:27.780
the guy too, although I, I think he's been heavy handed during the lockdown. I think he wants to run
00:32:33.780
for prime minister. I think he wants, uh, perhaps to be reelected as Alberta premier. He's still young,
00:32:39.460
very early fifties, um, finish up Alberta. Well, he's at a disastrous year and a half
00:32:45.460
and then run for federal office. But, and so everything he's saying and doing in Alberta as
00:32:52.500
regards to the federal government, I think part of his brain is thinking, how will this sound in five
00:32:57.220
years when I'm running to be prime minister? So I can't say anything that would even have a whiff
00:33:05.620
of, of separatism or even alienation or even, um, so I, I, I think that he's not fully dedicated
00:33:14.180
to the present task of representing Alberta or the West because he's got his eye on that main chance
00:33:20.100
later when Aaron O'Toole fails. Will he come in and, and take that job? That's my hunch. That's my
00:33:26.980
hunch. I have no basis for that other than speculation. Well, you may be right. You know, I don't have any
00:33:31.620
information on Jason's mind, so I can't say, but it's certainly a, uh, a plausible explanation.
00:33:37.860
Uh, but you know, I've worked for politicians for a long time associated with them. And so I don't,
00:33:42.020
I don't expect perfection. I just, uh, look for some movement and in the direction that I'm
00:33:48.660
think is necessary. And, uh, we can criticize what Jason has done, but he is in fact holding the
00:33:54.820
referendum on equalization, which is a, or can be a first step towards Alberta's self-assertion.
00:34:01.780
So I'm willing to, you know, take that in good faith and see what comes from that. If it, uh,
00:34:06.740
now I am a little concerned that up to this point, the government hasn't really made much of a case
00:34:12.180
in the public mind for why it's holding this referendum. They've allowed opponents to, uh,
00:34:17.700
to define it thus far. I can't tell you how many times I've heard talking heads say
00:34:21.780
this referendum is pointless because equalization is, uh, is a matter of federal legislation,
00:34:28.020
uh, you know, which is true, but that's only the beginning of the story.
00:34:32.660
Um, it's based in the constitution and there's possibility for discussing the terms of it and so
00:34:37.620
on. Uh, but the government hasn't been very aggressive in, in utilizing this opportunity.
00:34:43.460
So we're gonna have to see what happens. It's an opportunity. And what will the government make of
00:34:47.700
it? Uh, I hope they, I hope they make something. Can't say for sure until we see it.
00:34:53.060
Um, I'm not gonna ask you to predict the future, but if, if you, I'm gonna ask you to tell our viewers,
00:34:58.580
if you wouldn't mind answering this, which you think is the best future. So not which
00:35:03.060
you predict will be done. But if, if Alberta wanted to move away from the word, no, no pipeline,
00:35:11.380
no oil sands, no freedom, no, no, no. And if it wanted to, I don't know, to borrow a phrase,
00:35:23.780
staying in Canada and making the case like Preston Manning did, if that's option one,
00:35:29.300
option two, trying to become the 51st state, maybe set off against Puerto Rico, add two more stars,
00:35:36.580
one Republican, one Democrat to the flag or option three, trying to be some sort of independent
00:35:42.660
country. Which of those three alternatives do you think would allow Albertans to live their best
00:35:48.740
life? As the kids say, staying in Canada, trying to reform it, joining America as a 51st state or
00:35:55.300
trying some sort of independence? Well, you asked what would be the best option for, for Alberta,
00:36:01.540
not what I think will happen necessarily, but what would be the best? Well, the best option,
00:36:05.860
I think pretty clearly would be remaining in Canada, which has, you know, many, many great
00:36:12.020
assets and virtues. Um, and assuming our proper role in Canada and getting a government, which is
00:36:19.300
not constantly trying to block us. Now we thought that might be possible for a while. Uh, can that be
00:36:26.900
done? Uh, I guess as a step towards that, some of us are proposing these, you might call independent,
00:36:34.340
uh, independent, what's the right word? Autonomism, I guess is the word we use. We're proposing these
00:36:40.020
autonomous alternatives that make Alberta more self-reliant within, but still within Confederation.
00:36:48.900
There are big, uh, huge, huge problems involved, um, in, uh, trying to, uh, join the United States.
00:36:58.740
Uh, uh, you know, I'm not sure that we'd be welcome as long as the Democrats are in power.
00:37:04.580
Um, and the United, the problems in the United States, you know, I would say at least as big as
00:37:10.580
those in Canada, um, and as being a sovereign state, well, yeah, it has a certain attraction,
00:37:17.220
but we would be landlocked. And so we would still have big transit problems to work out. You know,
00:37:23.060
we're worried about our, uh, access to tidewater and so forth. Well, that doesn't go away just with
00:37:28.740
the declaration of sovereignty. So, you know, the ideal solution would be, uh, uh, a better,
00:37:37.620
a better version of Canada, which recognizes Alberta's ambitions and doesn't treat Alberta
00:37:42.900
just as a golden goose. Uh, can we achieve that? Um, I don't know that it's, it's, it's depressed.
00:37:50.260
The record is depressing. I have to say that many of the authors, you know, sort of of my generation,
00:37:55.220
people who are now in their seventies and spent, uh, many, many years, um, working for the reform
00:38:03.300
of Canada and in various political movements, whether it was a reform party or the Canadian
00:38:08.420
Alliance, the conservative party of Canada, or some of the provincial parties, um, other national
00:38:13.940
parties, uh, you know, we were all kind of rolling the same way and thought we had made
00:38:19.380
progress and they're seeing it all undone in the last few years. It's been very, very depressing.
00:38:24.900
And that's the mood behind this, this book. We wouldn't 10 years ago, or even five years ago,
00:38:30.020
we wouldn't have written the book this way, but we've seen so much lost since 2015 with the block
00:38:36.660
blockade and there's obstruction of pipelines and, uh, attacks on our basic industries.
00:38:42.340
Um, so that's, that's the mood behind this book, but for me still, uh, reform of Canada would be the
00:38:52.660
best outcome. Uh, others say, look, Tom, you've, uh, you know, you're, you're just naive. It can't be
00:38:59.700
done. And they're turning in a more separatist direction. And then, and I respect that. And maybe
00:39:05.460
that could be the spur to some meaningful negotiations. Uh, if Jay Hill can get some
00:39:11.140
results with his Maverick party and make it seem like a real, uh, a real force, you know,
00:39:16.020
that might, that might lead to some change too. I mean, you're absolutely right. When you said about
00:39:20.260
Quebec that all their gain political gains, which are enormous, have been made with the threat of
00:39:26.020
separatism in the background. Um, there was always that fear, you know? Yeah. Um, to improve things
00:39:35.140
within Canada, uh, the template of Quebec shows you need to have a credible threat to
00:39:41.060
leave Canada. I suppose it's like a bad marriage. Um, uh, the threat to leave the threat of a divorce
00:39:48.580
might focus the mind of the other party to improve the marriage itself. I'm trying to use an analogy,
00:39:53.540
you know, Dr. Tom, it's, I was just thinking, uh, when I first met you at the university of Calgary,
00:39:59.060
I was a teenager and these same issues were being described. I am 49 now, and I'm not sure what
00:40:06.580
progress has been made on these files. Um, the book is called moment of truth, how to think about
00:40:11.940
Alberta's future. Uh, you'll, we'll have a link below this video that you can click to get a copy.
00:40:18.100
Great to see you again. And I look forward to meeting up, uh, perhaps next time I'm in Calgary.
00:40:22.260
Thanks for your time today. Okay, Ezra. Thanks for having me on. Our pleasure. There you have it.
00:40:26.740
Dr. Tom Flanagan, who was one of the editors of the book moment of truth. Stay with us more ahead.
00:40:44.740
Well, that's our show for today. What do you think? Do you think Alberta will be able to resist
00:40:48.180
the squawking from the fancy people, the official people, the public health deep state,
00:40:52.660
or do you think they'll flip-flop again? They, they used to be the best province. Then they became
00:40:57.220
the worst. Now, except for their, you know, persistent hounding of some dissidents like the
00:41:05.060
Pawlowski's, they're the best province again. Do you think they'll be able to resist the pressure
00:41:10.260
from the Globe and Mail and the CBC and all these TV doctors? I wonder. I, uh, I think it'll be a
00:41:16.820
fascinating test. Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida, had a lot of resistance in the beginning,
00:41:22.420
but he held firm and he's reaped not only the public policy success, a healthy state with a
00:41:27.700
booming economy, but the political success and people respect them. It'll be very interesting to see
00:41:33.300
if the Alberta government can resist the peer pressure. That's our show for today. Until
00:41:38.180
tomorrow, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters to you at home,