Rebel News Podcast - March 01, 2023


EZRA LEVANT ｜ Breaking the mold on foreign policy： An interview with Maxime Bernier


Episode Stats

Length

40 minutes

Words per Minute

155.53375

Word Count

6,286

Sentence Count

414

Misogynist Sentences

1

Hate Speech Sentences

19


Summary

Maxime Bernier of the People's Party of Canada joins Ezra Levant to talk about Ukraine, China, and Justin Trudeau's role in the Ukraine conflict, and why he thinks they should all be worried about nuclear weapons.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hello, my friends. A feature interview with Maxime Bernier of the People's Party.
00:00:03.600 I want to talk to him about foreign policy. It's not something that a lot of Canadians
00:00:07.460 think about these days. We've been so focused on the economy and, of course, the civil liberties
00:00:11.340 bonfire of the pandemic and the lockdowns. But what about this hurtling war in Ukraine that
00:00:18.340 threatens to engulf many other countries? What about China? What about Trudeau and his role in
00:00:24.120 both? We'll talk to Maxime Bernier about it, and I expect we'll get a more contrarian take than we do
00:00:28.520 from, oh, say, the Conservative Party of Canada. You can be the judge of that, though. That's ahead.
00:00:32.920 But first, let me invite you to become a subscriber to Rebel News Plus. That's the video version of
00:00:37.500 this podcast. Just go to rebelnewsplus.com and click subscribe, eight bucks a month. You get
00:00:42.580 the video version and you help keep us alive because, as you know, we do not take any government
00:00:47.340 money, which makes us almost unique in Canada. All right, here's today's show.
00:00:58.520 Tonight, meet the one Canadian political party leader who's breaking the mold on foreign policy.
00:01:12.500 It's a feature-length interview with Maxime Bernier. It's March 1st, and you're watching
00:01:17.160 The Ezra Levant Show. I tell you, a year ago, ask anyone on the street where Ukraine is. Ask them
00:01:39.080 to point to it on a map, and I put it to you that 99% of them would not know. I put it to you if you
00:01:46.560 did that same thing today. 99% of them would not know. I'm not disparaging Ukraine. In fact,
00:01:52.480 my own family came from Ukraine in 1903 from the central city of Dnipro, which has actually
00:01:59.280 changed hands historically over the years. It was once called Dnipropetrovsk, which is the Russian
00:02:05.020 name. A lot of cities in that country were Russian, Ukrainian, even Polish over time. The borders
00:02:11.060 move around. That's nothing actually new. I, myself, am against the invasion of
00:02:16.400 any country by another country. I believe in sovereign states and borders, and any war
00:02:21.040 is a failure of diplomacy and economy. There's a saying where goods cross borders, soldiers won't.
00:02:30.000 That is the utopia that we're working towards, a free market where everyone is at peace with each
00:02:35.180 other, and prosperity is the goal, not domination. Alas, Russia has other ambitions. But the question
00:02:41.460 on my mind is not, should Russia invade Ukraine? They have, and they're a big military power run
00:02:48.420 by a former KGB agent. The question is, what do we in Canada, and more importantly, the United Kingdom
00:02:55.460 and the United States do? And do we risk a war that could turn nuclear? In recent weeks, we see that
00:03:03.700 communist China has increasingly allied itself with Russia. That portends the gravest realignment of
00:03:11.620 strategic politics, well, in 50 years since Richard Nixon broke communist China away from the Soviet
00:03:17.860 Union and tried to reorient it towards the West. Imagine those two giant foes uniting against the West.
00:03:26.340 How's it going to end? Well, you won't find the answer in any mainstream media or any mainstream
00:03:32.580 political party. Frankly, in the United States, most Republicans seem to be gung-ho, just as gung-ho,
00:03:39.620 on the war in Ukraine as the Democrats. They're traveling to Kiev for their photo ops with President
00:03:45.540 Zelensky, and most Republicans are voting to send billions of dollars and high-tech equipment to the war.
00:03:53.180 However, there's not a lot of talk of peace or diplomacy. Well, today we're going to spend some
00:04:00.060 time with one of the few politicians in Canada who's willing to be contrarian on this subject.
00:04:06.060 I refer, of course, to Maxime Bernier, the leader of the People's Party of Canada.
00:04:10.460 He joins us now from Montreal via Skype. Maxime Bernier, great to see you again. Thanks for taking the time with us.
00:04:16.460 Thank you, Ezra, for giving me that opportunity.
00:04:19.740 Well, it's a pleasure. And I don't want to be panicky. I don't want to be thin-skinned. I don't
00:04:27.820 want to be alarmist. And I certainly don't want to be a peacenik or someone who is, I don't know,
00:04:34.860 ideologically weak. But I don't think it's a sign of weakness to be concerned about a growing
00:04:41.340 convergence of men and materiel and rhetoric, war-like rhetoric when there's nuclear weapons
00:04:51.260 on the other side. I just think this is unlike any other conflict in the world, the Saudi-Yemen
00:04:58.620 conflict, for example, because at the end of the day, Russia has nukes. I have to tell you,
00:05:03.420 I'm a little bit scared of the brinksmanship here. That's my view. But enough from me. I'd like to hear
00:05:08.860 your views, and I'd like to hear them at length for our viewers.
00:05:12.780 Yes, you have a point there, Ezra. And as you know, in the legacy media, it's all about Ukraine.
00:05:20.860 And if you're not pro-Ukraine, you're pro-Putin, and you're not a good Canadian. You know,
00:05:27.660 there's only one narrative. And that's great that you are bringing the other side of the story.
00:05:34.380 That is very important. And actually, I was looking at a poll, I believe, a couple of days ago. And
00:05:42.140 that was saying that about 21 percent of Canadians are looking for an agreement, a peace agreement,
00:05:50.460 between Ukraine and Russia. So 21 percent, it's almost a quarter of the population when you have
00:05:59.260 only one narrative in the mainstream media. So imagine if these mainstream media were able to
00:06:07.420 be more neutral in that war. I believe that that percentage will have been a little bit higher.
00:06:14.140 That being said, it is not, you know, in our history, in our culture here in Canada to be pro-war.
00:06:21.020 And I'm looking at what is happening, like you said, in Parliament in Ottawa, all these establishment
00:06:27.420 political parties, including the NDP. You know, we must think that the NDP of Ed Broadbent and
00:06:35.020 Jack Layton were for peace at that time, but not right now with their new leader. They're with Trudeau,
00:06:43.980 like the Conservatives. But, you know, when you have a country like Russia, who's having the nuclear
00:06:51.260 power, it's very, very dangerous. And now we are seeing the U.S. that are saying they will give more
00:07:00.780 ammunitions, more equipment. And we are doing the same thing. And here in Canada, as you may know,
00:07:07.100 we gave about $4 billion to Ukraine. We are broke and we are giving money away and equipment.
00:07:15.980 Our Canadian forces didn't have the right equipment right now, and we are giving our equipment to
00:07:22.060 Ukraine. It's not our war. And, you know, I'm looking in the past, like Jean Chrétien, when the U.S.
00:07:29.340 wanted us to be part of the war in Iraq. And Chrétien said, no, there's no U.N. Security Council
00:07:37.260 decision on that. I won't participate in that war. Same thing like in the 1950s, during the Suez
00:07:45.740 crisis, the Canal of Suez crisis in the 1950s, our country was a peacemaker. And we were not part of
00:07:56.380 that conflict. So there's a lot of precedent, historical precedent. And now we didn't have
00:08:02.380 any debates in Parliament in Ottawa about the position of our country. And we are making Russia
00:08:10.140 an enemy of our country, when Russia is our neighbor. And I must admit, Israel, that I'm more
00:08:18.220 scared about China than Russia. So we, the PPC, we have a position that is for peace and prosperity.
00:08:26.060 And I said that in the beginning of that conflict. It is not our conflict. And usually, you know,
00:08:32.140 Ukraine is not a member of NATO. We are a member of NATO. And being a member of NATO,
00:08:38.220 we have the obligation to help other countries, other members' countries, when a war happens. But
00:08:45.900 Ukraine is not part of NATO. And we are there fighting against Russia. It's a proxy war for me,
00:08:54.460 between the US and Russia. And, you know, 80% of the world is looking at that. So there's no unanimity,
00:09:02.380 like the mainstream media try to tell us all over the globe that everybody is pro-Ukraine. No,
00:09:08.620 it's more complicated than that. And I believe that it is not our war. And I'm a little bit scared about
00:09:14.860 what can happen in the near future because of the nuclear weapons that Russia has. So we don't know
00:09:23.180 what can happen. And our role must be to try to have a ceasefire and try to promote peace and prosperity.
00:09:31.580 But I'm the only one in Canada as the leader of a national political party that is saying that.
00:09:38.620 You know, I remember when Canada wanted to be the fair dealer, the middleman, the peace broker.
00:09:45.660 You know, that was a stance that Canada took sometimes in Middle Eastern entanglements.
00:09:51.980 And peacekeeping was our forte. You don't hear a lot of talk about either of those things now.
00:09:58.620 You know, it's interesting you mentioned that there was no debate, let alone a vote in parliament. I
00:10:03.500 remember when the United States deposed Muammar Gaddafi in Libya. And Muammar Gaddafi did not have
00:10:13.740 nuclear weapons. He was actually easy pickings. I think that that's been a terrible,
00:10:19.020 there have been terrible consequences. I think that started a massive migration crisis in Europe.
00:10:27.340 I think it helped start a lot of terrorists and open air slave markets again. I think
00:10:32.780 terrible things have come. Canada had a small role in that. I think we sent one ship and had some planes.
00:10:39.820 Stephen Harper was the prime minister of the day, if I recall. He allowed a debate in parliament,
00:10:45.100 which is more than I think Trudeau has done here. And I think he allowed a vote. I'm going from
00:10:51.260 memory. You might remember better than me. And I remember Elizabeth May of the Green Party
00:10:55.500 was against it. And I have many disagreements with her, but that is the green point of view.
00:10:59.900 Peace. Let's solve things. Let's not just smash things. And I guess the reason I refer to that is
00:11:05.980 because I think Stephen Harper was under enormous pressure to go along with the US, even though Libya
00:11:13.580 really isn't our quarrel. But he went along in the most minimal way, like deploying a ship,
00:11:19.580 and there were no troops on the ground. There was no risk to Canadians. There was no risk of nuclear
00:11:23.660 missiles being lobbed at us. There was a debate. I think Canada went along in a grudging way,
00:11:28.700 but it was enough for the United States to say, okay, our ally Canada was there with us.
00:11:34.060 We didn't lose face. But what's happening under Trudeau is very different. No vote,
00:11:39.180 no debate, serious commitment of money and military equipment. And most importantly,
00:11:45.900 there is a risk that Russia will respond not just to Ukraine, but outside that theater of war.
00:11:52.300 What happened, not just to Trudeau, but what happened to the left? Where is the Elizabeth
00:12:00.140 May of 2023 voting against this war, or at least speaking against the war? Where's all the peaceniks?
00:12:08.620 You're right about that. And I believe that they are pro-war, the green and the NDP and liberals and
00:12:17.900 conservatives, because of the propaganda machine. I believe that the legacy media were very good to
00:12:25.740 be 100% pro-Ukraine, and it was very popular. And so if you're a member of parliament in the opposition,
00:12:34.140 you want to be with the majority. And still today, a majority of Canadians are okay with that war.
00:12:42.060 So they're not able to have the other point of view in front of them. So that's why you have a huge
00:12:49.100 majority for that war, and for the participation of our country in that war. And these politicians
00:12:59.420 don't have any conviction, and they're following the majority of the population. But if you're a leader,
00:13:08.220 you must lead. And you must have strong ideas and try to present them to these ideas to Canadians.
00:13:16.380 And that is what we are doing. You know, it's not popular. That position about being pro-peace and
00:13:23.420 prosperity and for a diplomatic solution, that solution is not popular. But I believe that if you
00:13:30.140 look at the history, and if you look at that conflict with what happened the last couple of
00:13:36.300 months, that must be the position. And I was pleased to see in France, there's a couple of former
00:13:44.060 diplomats that said, you know, it's a long war, and it's a little bit too long, and it's very dangerous.
00:13:50.300 We must find a way to get out of that war. And you know, these territories, like you said,
00:13:57.660 Donbass and Crimea, they were under different jurisdictions the last 200 years. So we must
00:14:08.700 have a discussion with other countries about that, and maybe these territories will stay with Russia,
00:14:16.380 and we need to have as soon as possible that ceasefire. But what we are doing, we, the West,
00:14:23.180 we are pushing, like you said in the beginning, we are pushing Russia in the arms of China. And our,
00:14:31.180 you know, sanctions, financial sanctions were not efficient. The ruble went to the roof,
00:14:39.580 the economy is going well in Russia. And now they're dealing and selling their oil and gas to
00:14:47.100 other countries in Middle East and in China. So we, if you look at the situation, the global situation,
00:14:57.980 the political situation in the West and East and with China, it's a big mess because of the participation
00:15:06.940 of the US and us in that war. You know, I just feel like everything is ratcheting it up. It's a
00:15:14.300 brinksmanship. It's like a poker game when each side is raising the stakes again and again and again.
00:15:20.140 Yeah, I don't want to, it's, I don't think the analogy is perfect with World War One,
00:15:24.860 but you had so many alliances and so many things that were triggered by the assassination of the
00:15:30.780 Archduke. And then that made one domino fall and then another and then another. And everyone was
00:15:36.780 sort of pulled into a war that no one had foreseen. I think what you have here in Ukraine is such
00:15:44.060 escalating rhetoric, whether it's from Zelensky or the prime minister of the UK, who's talking about
00:15:49.020 long range weapons or Joe Biden visiting and it's just, everything is getting more and more intense.
00:15:56.220 And I just don't see an off ramp there. I mean, I, I, it feels like a brinksmanship.
00:16:03.820 I don't know why Canada is getting swept up in it. Maybe it's diaspora politics. Is it because
00:16:08.300 there's so many Ukrainian Canadians? Is it, are they, is it just an appeal for that vote domestically? Or is
00:16:14.940 it pressure from the, the Biden administration? Like why is Melanie Jolie giving a statement like this,
00:16:23.340 basically saying this is the most important thing in the world? Here's a quick clip of her.
00:16:26.780 Canadians know that in order to get to lasting peace, we need to make sure that we continue to
00:16:31.580 arm Ukraine. And when doing so, there's still a lot to do. And for sure, we will be doing more. That's
00:16:38.060 what I can tell you right now. What's that all about? Why is she doing that? Is it for votes? Or is it
00:16:42.620 pressure from Biden? Or does she actually believe it? Yeah, no, what she's saying, she's saying the same
00:16:48.460 thing that Biden said and other countries, you know, like Ukraine will win. But it would be very
00:16:57.740 difficult. They will have a lot of human life that, you know, Ukraine, I don't, I don't know how many
00:17:05.740 lives, men and women and children that died because of that war, you know, more, the more you are giving
00:17:15.980 ammunition, the more you are giving equipment, the more you are giving missiles to Ukraine,
00:17:20.860 the more debt you'll have. And I believe that actually, that the fact that they escalate that
00:17:29.500 conflict, and the fact that we don't have a leader, you know, leader of any countries that is very strong
00:17:40.380 about speaking about peace and prosperity, that's a little bit scary. Usually, when you have conflicts
00:17:46.380 like that, you have one or two or three countries that will be out there and promote a diplomatic
00:17:52.060 solution, a ceasefire. But we don't see that right now. And everybody are saying, you know, oh, that we
00:17:58.940 are ready for that war, we will give more equipment, more equipment means more debt. And for on both
00:18:07.180 sides. So there's no win-win in that situation. And I believe that our country is in that war,
00:18:16.060 proxy war against Russia, because of the big Canadian community from Ukraine origin, more than 1.2 million
00:18:26.940 people. And you know, they want to have their support, they want to buy vote. Actually, I was in Manitoba a
00:18:34.140 couple of days ago, and there's a lot of Canadians from Ukraine origin, and I was speaking about our
00:18:40.140 position. And I can tell you, Ezra, it was not popular. But I said to them, this must be the
00:18:46.860 situation, this must be the position of our country. It is too dangerous right now. And we can be in a
00:18:54.060 bigger conflict in a couple of weeks or months. So let's have, you know, let's put people around the
00:19:01.740 table and try to have a diplomatic solution. But I don't hear that outside our country and in Europe.
00:19:09.900 So that's why that nuclear war can happen a day. You know, I hope it won't, but it's a big risk.
00:19:20.860 And I believe that a lot of people don't understand that.
00:19:24.860 You know, when I was in Davos at the World Economic Forum a few weeks ago, I went to the Ukraine
00:19:30.540 pavilion. And the real emphasis there was on human casualties and civilian casualties. And they were
00:19:37.020 trying to make the legal case that it was war crimes. And I don't know if that, I don't know if
00:19:40.700 that's the case. I mean, obviously, civilians die in every war. That's a great tragedy. But it did soften
00:19:45.980 my heart. But it left me with the idea, you have all these Western politicians who were ready
00:19:51.820 ready to fight to the last Ukrainian. You know, I mean, it really has become a battleground
00:19:58.140 for the Warsaw Pact versus NATO. It's almost like the fight they never had during the Cold War
00:20:04.940 is being rerun now. And Ukraine is the unhappy location for it. So it increased my, going to this
00:20:12.540 Ukraine pavilion at Davos absolutely made me more sensitive to the human toll of it. But that didn't
00:20:19.420 make me more pro-war. That made me more pro-diplomatic solution. I just find it bizarre.
00:20:25.580 But you said something I'd like to follow up on. You said that you think that China is a greater threat
00:20:31.340 than Russia. And I think there's a lot of truth to that. But I'd like to understand why you think so.
00:20:36.700 And what kind of dangers you think China poses, not just to Canada, but to the world. And what do you
00:20:45.500 see with their increasing closeness with Russia in part over this Ukraine battle? Give me a few minutes
00:20:52.380 on your thoughts on China. Yes, absolutely. We've read in the news a couple of days ago about,
00:21:00.220 you know, a report coming from CSIS saying that China had a huge influence in our electoral process
00:21:07.820 at the last election. And they were, you know, favoring some candidates and they spend money to
00:21:15.260 help some candidates to be elected. But that's not only that, you know, the Chinese Communist Party
00:21:22.700 is spending money and he is giving money to some universities here in our country. They have a huge
00:21:30.140 influence in Nagel University and other universities across the country with their funding. And that must
00:21:37.660 be illegal. And also we know that the Chinese Communist Party has a police, Chinese police station in our
00:21:46.460 big cities in Toronto and Vancouver. That's illegal in line. It's, you know, if you look at the
00:21:54.220 international law, that is illegal. And the Trudeau government is not doing anything about that.
00:22:01.740 So I'm scary about that communist ideology that it's everywhere in our university, the socialism.
00:22:09.020 So that influence of China. And as you know, China also tried to buy our natural resources,
00:22:17.340 but at least we have a Canadian Investment Act. I was industry minister, so I know pretty well that act.
00:22:24.700 And when there's a huge investment for our natural resources or in another industry, the federal
00:22:31.980 government has the power to stop that. And if it's not in line with our Canadian interest. But I know
00:22:39.740 that China is looking at our natural resources. So they're everywhere. And you have the Trudeau government
00:22:47.020 that is doing, you know, no, for him, it's not so important. The biggest enemy of our country for
00:22:54.060 Trudeau is Russia. That's not must not be the case. That must be China. And as you know, I don't want to
00:23:02.220 have Russia as our enemy, because they are neighbors. And, and, you know, we, it's so dangerous for the
00:23:10.780 security of our country, what Trudeau is doing in Ukraine, and what Trudeau is not doing concerning
00:23:18.460 China. I think that for the last three years, the political attention span of Canadians has been
00:23:25.900 directed to the pandemic, to lockdowns, to the infringements on our personal liberties because of
00:23:34.300 these crazy years. And if there's any time left over after thinking about that, it's probably things
00:23:41.740 like the price of housing, the cost of living, inflation, the carbon tax. I mean, there's only
00:23:48.060 24 hours a day, and there's only so much time and attention people can pay to politics. I bet if there
00:23:53.660 was some way to measure, the amount of time people think about foreign policy has probably been,
00:24:01.020 I think it's very low. Now, I don't know how many ordinary people are focused on the Ukraine war,
00:24:08.700 because I feel like that's been propagated by our own media. They talk about it relentlessly. I don't
00:24:14.140 know if ordinary people talk about it over a water cooler. But I think that Canadians have generally
00:24:22.700 not been as foreign policy oriented as, say, the United States, because they're so important, they can
00:24:28.380 change the world. Just, you know, they have the military, they have the economy. We typically don't
00:24:34.700 make that much of a difference on our own. And I think, you know, as the diplomat a century ago said,
00:24:41.260 we're, you know, fireproof material far away from flammable, you know, we're a fireproof house far
00:24:47.740 away from flammable materials, I believe, is the old quote of the Canadian diplomat saying,
00:24:51.980 we don't have a lot to worry about here, thank God. So let me ask you this. Do Canadians care about
00:24:57.820 these things? Or is it just the latest thing, like, put a Black Lives Matter symbol on your
00:25:03.820 Twitter account? Okay, now put a gay pride flag on your Facebook account. Okay, now, what's the next
00:25:09.580 thing? Wear a mask. Okay, what, like, it's the next thing that, that people do to show that they're
00:25:15.420 fashionable? Is this, is foreign policy a serious concern for Canadians? Or is it just a fashion
00:25:22.620 that will be replaced in a year by something else? I believe that Canadians are following the trend,
00:25:29.420 and they are, you know, the influence of legacy media is huge. But also, I believe that Canadians
00:25:36.380 understand that our relationship with the US is very important. And, and I think they understand that,
00:25:43.580 but also what they must understand is, we have the right to say no to the US. We are friend,
00:25:49.900 a friend with the US. And, you know, we are a sovereign country at the same time. And actually,
00:25:55.820 Jean Chrétien did say yes to the US during the war in Iraq. He said, no, I won't participate in that
00:26:03.180 war. There's no UN security mandate. And I think that was a good, a good decision. But I believe that
00:26:11.740 Canadians are looking at the US and saying, okay, if it's good for the US, it must be good for us,
00:26:17.420 but not all the time. And, and now the influence of the mainstream media is huge with that war in
00:26:23.420 Ukraine. So it's, it's a challenge that we have in our country. When you speak about foreign policies,
00:26:31.980 it's a little bit more challenging for a politician to express that in more than a clip of five seconds
00:26:40.700 in the news. But that must, that's something that we must do. And I'm doing as a politician,
00:26:46.380 try to explain the file all together, and looking at it in a comprehensive manner.
00:26:58.940 Let me ask you one more question about public priorities, because I saw recently a poll by
00:27:05.500 Abacus Research, which is liberal aligned. So I think they're always going to give the benefit
00:27:10.220 of the doubt to the liberals. So when they say something surprising, that's critical of the
00:27:14.060 liberals, I pay attention, because I don't think it's in their nature. Their president, David Coletto,
00:27:19.420 recently posted a graph showing, well, there's a number of things, they had a graph showing the top
00:27:27.340 issues of Canadians. And of course, there was also a fascinating access to information document that
00:27:33.180 I saw published on what the top issues are that Canadians write to the prime minister about,
00:27:40.140 like by the hundreds of thousands. And what's interesting about both of these two things,
00:27:46.220 the polling numbers and the letters that people write to the prime minister,
00:27:50.540 they're not woke. They're not about obscure, woke issues like transgenderism or, you know,
00:27:59.020 global warming actually is very, very low on the list. It's things like, you know, like I said before,
00:28:06.300 the cost of living, prosperity, taxes, unemployment, the recession, people are worried about their jobs,
00:28:10.700 people can't keep up with expenses. And in a way, it's good that people are focused on important things.
00:28:17.420 But here's my question to you. Foreign, foreign affairs wasn't on those lists other than people
00:28:23.260 are, some people are concerned about Ukraine. But the trucker commission, the truck, the convoy,
00:28:30.620 the civil liberties blowout of the last three years, I think that a lot of people,
00:28:36.780 if they haven't forgotten about it, they're just happy to move on from it. And here's
00:28:40.380 my point. I'm sorry it's taken me so long to come to it.
00:28:42.700 No. I'm worried that these important issues like civil liberties and prosperity and peace,
00:28:52.300 I'm worried that they're fun for pundits to talk about and to debate about. But at the end of the
00:28:57.980 day, people are just going to vote for who they think is going to put the most money in their pocket
00:29:03.900 or take the least out of their pocket. And maybe that's the right thing. I wish people cared more
00:29:08.700 about civil liberties. I wish people more people cared about the trucker convoy and how Trudeau smashed
00:29:15.500 it. But but maybe they don't. Maybe that's gone. What do you think?
00:29:21.340 Yes, actually, also, because now it's not in the news anymore. And we know that inflation is real and
00:29:28.780 our standard of living is going down. So when you have a huge difficulty to bring food on your table,
00:29:37.180 that's your first concern. But, you know, all that wokeism and the fact that we cannot take for granted
00:29:43.980 our freedoms anymore in our country. I think it's in their mind, you know, in the back of their mind.
00:29:50.780 And when something will happen, we'll be back in the news. I believe people are going to be,
00:29:56.060 oh, no, no, that's important. Look at the woke in school and, and, you know, in journalism,
00:30:03.580 you know, when it's going too far. And I believe that when something happened, like, you know,
00:30:11.340 you have a teacher in Ontario that teach with a costume, as you know, with fake
00:30:17.980 breasts. And it's so it's so crazy. It's so it's not normal. I believe when you have something like
00:30:25.980 that, people will say, OK, enough is enough. But if nothing happened in the news, they will go back to
00:30:33.500 their first priority. That is their job, the standard of living. And I can understand that. So that's
00:30:40.220 why for us, we try to speak about these issues, foreign policies, immigration,
00:30:47.980 the war in Ukraine, wokeism. And we want people to know that there's other important challenges
00:30:56.060 that we have as a country. You say you're out there campaigning. You were in Manitoba recently,
00:31:02.140 you say. Do you think there's going to be election, an election in 2023? In some ways,
00:31:07.500 it makes sense. There was one in 2019, then 2021. It's almost goes to follow that there would be one
00:31:14.540 this year, especially given the minority government. Do you think that's going to happen?
00:31:19.900 For me, personally, I hope, you know, I'm tired of that government. And I hope that Canadians can go
00:31:26.940 as soon as possible and to vote for the party that they want. But I don't think so. I believe
00:31:33.180 that it is not in the advantage of the NDP to have an election. I believe that they will support Trudeau
00:31:39.980 in the next budget. But we never know. And as a political party, we need to be ready. And that's why
00:31:48.540 we will start in a couple of days, a call for candidates and being ready to have a candidate
00:31:54.860 in every riding. Our goal is to have a full slate of candidates at the next election and having our
00:32:01.260 candidates before the end of this year, because we don't know when the election will be. But also,
00:32:08.460 I understand that we will have a couple of by-elections in Canada in the next six months,
00:32:15.660 in Manitoba, in Ontario. I believe there will be about five by-elections. That will be a nice
00:32:22.220 opportunity for Canadians in these ridings to express their point of view about the situation in our
00:32:28.060 country. I wish we can have a general election soon, but I don't think so. I think the NDP will look at
00:32:34.860 their own interest, and it is not in their own interest to have an election right now.
00:32:40.940 I think you're probably right. One last question about elections. I remember in the last election,
00:32:46.860 you were banned from the leaders' debates, even though you met their thresholds. They came up with
00:32:56.140 some formula for who was allowed to be there and not. They kept you out. They did the same to us,
00:33:01.100 by the way, to Rebel News. They wouldn't let our journalists in. We went to the federal court,
00:33:06.300 and we won in an emergency application, and the court ordered them to accredit us. Now,
00:33:11.660 that's a little bit different than ordering them to let a candidate on the stage. I mean,
00:33:16.220 it was absurd that they kept us out. There were 200 journalists there. What difference did it make
00:33:21.260 for us to have a few? It's a little bit more sensitive, I guess, how many people get to be on the
00:33:26.060 table? But I think that was part of this groupthink. By keeping you off of that debate,
00:33:32.300 they ensured no one heard a different point of view. They did that in the Ontario election, too.
00:33:37.340 They didn't allow any smaller parties other than the Green Party, which was identical to the other
00:33:43.340 ones. They had the simulation of disagreement, but the actual dissenting parties weren't there.
00:33:49.740 Will you try to get access to the leaders' debates in the next election? And if they deny you access,
00:33:57.820 will you go to court? Everything is open, and I believe that I will be there because they said
00:34:06.140 at the last election, okay for Bernier or the People's Party of Canada, that new political party,
00:34:13.740 will need to have 4%, and we had 5%. So maybe they will change the rule again at the next election,
00:34:21.340 I don't know. But they said 4%, and we had 5% of the vote all across the country. So I will fight
00:34:29.500 for being there for sure. We have another point of view, and we are doing politics differently with
00:34:35.740 strong ideas and strong principles. So on a lot of important issues, we are the only party
00:34:42.540 that is bringing another perspective to a challenge that we have in our country. So yes, answering your
00:34:50.060 question, I'll do everything to be there, and if we need to sue them, it's open. I'm ready to do it,
00:34:57.420 absolutely. Well, I'll tell you one thing, we're glad we sued because not only did we win, but it showed
00:35:05.340 that you can sometimes challenge the establishment. It was one of the most exciting moments in our little
00:35:12.060 company's life, and I think you should hold them to account. That's just my view. I hate this closed
00:35:17.420 shop that they've got going on. Well, listen, it's great to catch up with you, and I really appreciate
00:35:21.740 you talking with me about China and Ukraine. I think that there is grounds to have a principled
00:35:29.580 disagreement with the current war strategy that doesn't make you a Putin agent. I am not a Putin
00:35:35.420 agent. I regard him as a, in fact, he's the former KGB officer who, you know, I have no time for him.
00:35:43.340 He's an authoritarian bully who invaded another country, but that doesn't mean that when I say
00:35:49.900 that we shouldn't go to war with him, a nuclear-powered country, it doesn't mean a nuclear-armed
00:35:55.500 country, it doesn't mean that I'm on his side. I just feel like there's so little debate, and I really
00:36:01.420 appreciate you sharing your thoughts. Give us one last word before we say goodbye.
00:36:07.100 Yeah, thank you for that opportunity, Ezra, and you know, I really appreciate what you're doing
00:36:11.420 as an independent media. It's important to be able to have you there, and you are like, I like your
00:36:19.100 slogan, the other side of the story. Absolutely, you're right. So for us, we will continue to do what
00:36:25.340 we are doing, and I just want to assure everybody, if they want to know more about our party, they can
00:36:31.180 go on our website, People's Party of Canada.ca, and just read our policies, our platform, and actually,
00:36:37.820 it will be the same one in one month, or two years, or when the election will come. That's why we are
00:36:43.420 doing politics based on principles. So if you like what I'm saying, what we are fighting for, I hope
00:36:50.780 you'll support us, and if you don't like what I'm saying, please don't support us. There's other
00:36:56.540 establishment political parties that you can vote for. So that's why I want people to vote for what
00:37:02.860 they believe in line with their values, and our goal is to try to represent these values with our
00:37:09.420 political offer. So thank you, Ezra, and have a nice day. Thank you, my friend. There you have it,
00:37:15.420 Maxime Bernier, the leader of the People's Party of Canada. Stay with us. My final thoughts are next.
00:37:20.780 Well, I like Maxime Bernier. I like him for a number of reasons. First of all,
00:37:34.700 he's open to talking to a variety of people out there, not just government-approved media party
00:37:40.220 journalists. He has plenty of time for independent media too. I also like his libertarian streak. I
00:37:45.500 like the fact that he's contrarian, that he's willing to say things even if it offends certain
00:37:50.700 unoffendable groups in society. He's a Quebecer who's pro-Alberta oil pipeline, and he's a Quebecer
00:37:57.100 who has challenged the dairy boards, for example. Those are things that are not common for someone from
00:38:02.780 that province. You heard that he was willing to endure criticism by going to Manitoba, which has a
00:38:08.940 large Ukrainian-Canadian population, and saying he does not support the war in Ukraine. I think that's
00:38:14.700 a principled position he takes. It's my position as well, and it's not based on any hostility to Ukraine
00:38:19.820 or support for Russia. It's based on just this feeling that we are racing, hurtling towards a war
00:38:28.300 whose terms of victory are unknown to me. And the only ones I can discern, total victory over Russia,
00:38:35.260 regime change over Russia, retake Crimea, extirpate every Russian soldier, and smash Russia,
00:38:43.660 they feel like emotional calls to action rather than genuine geopolitical or diplomatic goals.
00:38:52.460 And those might have been achievable if you were going against some minor dictator like Muammar Gaddafi,
00:38:59.340 as Stephen Harper did a decade or more ago. But going against Vladimir Putin with a sizable economy
00:39:05.900 and a sizable nuclear arsenal, just, I do not understand where we're going, let alone what the
00:39:13.260 motivation is for going there. And suddenly Canada, the great peacekeeping country, the country of peace,
00:39:19.180 and the country of Justin Trudeau, who once mocked generals for whipping out their CF-18s and seeing how
00:39:25.580 big they are. Remember that insult? All of a sudden that Justin Trudeau is very butch and going to
00:39:31.980 Kiev to talk about war and sending one tank, which is all we can spare. I don't get it and I don't
00:39:40.300 understand it. And the fact that we haven't had a whole debate on the subject, let alone a vote,
00:39:45.900 tells me that something's wrong. That's not being anti-Ukrainian. As I say, my own family came from
00:39:51.100 Ukraine originally. That's just not wanting to get into a war with a nuclear armed opponent.
00:39:57.180 If that's contrarian, well, so be it. Those are my thoughts and you heard Maxime Bernier's thoughts.
00:40:02.460 That's our show for today. Until next time, on behalf of all of us at Rebel News,
00:40:06.380 to you at home, good night and keep fighting for freedom.
00:40:13.500 We'll see you if you're next week.