Rebel News Podcast - EZRA LEVANT ｜ Exclusive interview with Roman Baber, Conservative Party leadership candidate

00:00:00.000 Hello, my friends, a very special show today, a one hour long sit down with conservative

00:00:06.240 leadership candidate Roman Babber. But before I get to that, let me invite you to become a

00:00:11.780 subscriber to Rebel News Plus. That's the video version of this podcast. Just go to rebelnewsplus.com,

00:00:17.860 click subscribe. It's eight bucks a month. My show every weeknight, plus weekly shows from

00:00:22.680 four of my colleagues. It's 36 shows a month just for eight bucks. It's important because we rely on

00:00:28.500 that money because we don't take a dime from Trudeau. All right, here's today's podcast.

00:00:46.240 Tonight, an exclusive interview with Roman Babber, the conservative party leadership candidate.

00:00:52.360 It's May 26th, and this is the Ezra LeVant Show.

00:00:55.020 Why should others go to jail when you're a biggest carbon consumer I know?

00:01:00.900 There's 8,500 customers here, and you won't give them an answer.

00:01:04.980 The only thing I have to say to the government about why I publish it is because it's my bloody

00:01:09.840 right to do so.

00:01:16.140 I'm excited by the Conservative Party of Canada's leadership contest, excited that it's happening

00:01:21.700 at all, thanks to the truckers who set in motion a series of events that culminated in Aaron O'Toole

00:01:28.580 being turfed by the Conservative Caucus. Thank goodness. And into that void have stepped some

00:01:34.800 quality candidates. It's not the B-list team. These are people who can win, who want to win,

00:01:43.400 who bring something to the table. Whether you like each of them or not,

00:01:47.860 the contest has a national class of candidates. It's not a stretch to imagine most of them

00:01:54.640 as prime minister, and a better prime minister than Justin Trudeau. That's for sure. And what I

00:02:00.800 like best of all is that they believe in things. There's a real clash of ideas afoot, don't you think?

00:02:08.220 The mainstream media is appalled by this. They don't know what to make of this. I saw a headline

00:02:12.700 just the other day that the party is having an identity crisis. I laughed at first, but actually

00:02:20.820 it's sort of true in that there are very strong differences of opinion about key issues, but that

00:02:28.700 strong difference of opinion is about to be resolved by a vote of party members. So yeah, there is an

00:02:34.580 identity crisis that will figure itself out. We'll know where the party stands soon. There is a battle

00:02:41.080 for the party's soul, but that battle will be lost and won in a few months, and then the party will

00:02:46.700 definitely have a flavor. It won't be all things to all people. Maybe it'll actually be conservative.

00:02:53.440 Perhaps the media aren't used to such a battle of ideas. Tell me the last time Justin Trudeau had an

00:02:59.740 interesting or useful policy idea, other than just demonizing his critics and taking more power

00:03:05.900 for the government and frankly global governments, whether the pandemic or the climate is the excuse.

00:03:11.700 Earlier this week, I had the opportunity to sit down with one of the candidates for the leadership,

00:03:17.420 who happens to be my own local provincial legislator, the member of the provincial parliament for York

00:03:23.600 Center, at least until the election was just called. His name is Roman Babber. He made a name for himself

00:03:29.160 in January of 2021 by publicly opposing Doug Ford's lockdowns, but in a calm and researched and carefully

00:03:38.660 argued way, which promptly saw him thrown out of the party for daring to dissent. Well, now he's running

00:03:45.800 for the federal conservatives, and here's what he told me.

00:03:54.680 Roman, you were born in the former Soviet Union in Leningrad, as it was called. I mean,

00:03:59.360 that was a communist regime. How did that shape you as a person and as a politician?

00:04:05.660 I lived in the communist Soviet Union until I was almost nine, and something that always stays

00:04:11.140 with you is the fear. And you were taught very early as a child to be weary of the regime or of

00:04:17.180 issues that may come up. For instance, right before I started school, my family told me that I'm never

00:04:23.320 allowed to use the word America. Because if you use the word America, the teacher will tell the

00:04:28.660 principal, and the principal will tell the KGB, and the KGB will wonder, who's this kid that talks

00:04:33.240 about America, and who's his parent? And so you always got to watch what you say. Freedom of religion.

00:04:41.320 As some of your reviewers know, I'm Jewish, and that is also something that factored significantly

00:04:47.940 into life in the communist Soviet Union. One of my earliest memories is remembering grandpa

00:04:53.480 reading the Siddur, the Jewish prayer book on Rosh Hashanah on the evening of the Jewish New Year,

00:04:59.640 and asked what that was. And he said this was a Siddur, our prayer book. And dad later told me that

00:05:06.480 if the authorities, if the KGB found out that we had a prayer book of this sort in our home,

00:05:13.960 that grandpa could go to labor camp for five years. That is something that profoundly stays

00:05:17.920 with a child. And that fear of the regime and that yearning and love for democracy is something

00:05:24.120 that has always stayed with me. Fear of the KGB and fear of the labor camp, but also fear of other

00:05:32.180 people who would tattle, who would snitch, who would try and force you to conform. Is that right?

00:05:39.080 Ezra, that's one of the most common themes, one of the concerns, and in fact, of the fears

00:05:45.520 that are reminiscent of the Soviet Union. In fact, during the first debate, the North True debate,

00:05:51.300 I think Jean Charest said that, you know, Canadians are upset by the fact that there was a snitch line

00:05:58.640 on the barbaric practices line. And I said, Canadians were very upset that in the last year,

00:06:03.300 neighbors were snitching on each other, snitching on churches or synagogues that were open.

00:06:07.800 For sure, you always have to be suspicious of your surroundings, whether it's the grocery clerk

00:06:15.300 that might listen into your conversation, or a teacher at school, or a co-worker, or even a neighbor.

00:06:22.800 The regime uses other people, it uses citizens to enforce its own laws. And when citizens are empowered

00:06:32.780 to take the law into their hands, to police, I guess, state dicta, that's when trouble happens.

00:06:41.740 And we've seen some of that in the last year and a half to two years.

00:06:45.120 Well, I think that was part of the, one of the worst parts, is that it pitted shopkeepers

00:06:51.100 against their own customers. It pitted teachers against students. People who were not involved

00:06:57.460 in law enforcement at all were forced into it. And just like, you know, your teacher would tattle on

00:07:07.220 you, if you use the word America, it was like every single person in authority was drafted, conscripted

00:07:15.200 into a compliance army about social distancing and masks and vaxes. I really think we went far down

00:07:22.680 that road. Can we pull out of it? Or are there too many people who enjoy being an enforcer?

00:07:31.300 Beyond the enjoyment of it, I think that it's fear. It's the settlement of fear that was so prevalent

00:07:36.860 in people's minds that often turned into aggression or even hate. I'm a big proponent of Canadian

00:07:45.060 kindness. It's something that I talk about often. I think it makes Canada one of the best countries

00:07:49.540 in the world. And I have hope that there's enough kindness in the DNA of Canadians to be able to

00:07:58.980 snap out of this. And that begins with reducing the fear. That begins with allowing us to breathe

00:08:04.900 easy, go back to normal, for government to leave us alone and extricate ourselves out of this

00:08:10.180 remarkable involvement in our lives that will finally allow people to maybe breathe easy and treat each

00:08:15.120 other a little better. You know, I don't want to linger too much on the Soviet story, but I think

00:08:19.480 there are some echoes. The media, in the former Soviet Union, there was no free media. The media were

00:08:25.940 propagandists. I feel like over the last two years, the media has not asked skeptical questions of

00:08:32.720 authority. In fact, they've fact-checked not the government, but skeptical voices. They've

00:08:39.780 propagated, they've egged on the government. That's how it looks to me. And even your recent

00:08:45.700 appearance on the CBC, I felt like you were grilled in a way as an opposition politician,

00:08:52.540 in a way that we haven't seen politicians in the government grilled. Here's a quick clip of that.

00:08:57.760 On the issue of public health, you've said this week that you would fire Canada's chief public health

00:09:02.200 officer, Dr. Tam, for her handling of the pandemic. You obviously, it's widely known that you disagree

00:09:07.620 with many of the measures that were put in place. I wonder, though, whether Dr. Tam is the person to

00:09:13.080 go after. Dr. Tam provided advice to the government and evidence to the government, and the government

00:09:18.500 made the decision. So why would Dr. Tam be the target of your frustration?

00:09:24.480 Well, it's not frustration. It's the object failure of our pandemic response, namely,

00:09:29.580 that it appears that the response itself may have been considerably worse than initially thought,

00:09:34.300 and that was the prevalence of my argument. COVID is a very serious infection, but that doesn't mean

00:09:38.300 that we should not look at the collateral harm of lockdowns and other public health measures.

00:09:43.760 And look, the government has always been acting on advice from the chief medical officer.

00:09:48.060 That's what it's predicated its actions on. And we're seeing the fruits to bear. We're seeing a

00:09:52.760 mental health catastrophe gripping our country. We know that our children have regressed considerably.

00:09:57.540 We know that, according to the Canadian Medical Association, that already more than 4,000 Canadians

00:10:01.520 lost their lives because of surgeries delayed. We have an almost doubling in the rate of deaths

00:10:06.580 from overdose. In Ontario alone, we have more than a million cancer screenings.

00:10:10.500 Yeah, I don't think anyone is denying the side effects of lockdowns. But I think you would agree,

00:10:17.080 I would hope you would agree, that the tens of thousands of Canadians who died from COVID

00:10:21.280 is also a tragedy and could have been worse if the lockdowns had not been in effect.

00:10:26.340 Well, no, I'm not. If we're here to relitigate lockdowns again, first of all, I welcome you

00:10:31.060 acknowledging the collateral harm of lockdowns. That is something that wasn't permissible to even

00:10:35.880 discuss when I discussed it first in January 2021. But the jury is still out on whether there's

00:10:41.200 any efficacy to lockdown. We're still seeing a lockdown in some parts of China, 6th or 7th or 10th

00:10:46.800 lockdown. What I suggest is that we should have focused our response on the vulnerable.

00:10:50.940 We know that 80% of the risk was in long-term care homes and congregate settings. We know that the

00:10:55.820 virus is very, very transmissible. And I'm not sure that it made sense to lock up 37 million Canadians

00:11:01.680 and make themselves sick. There's nothing wrong with demanding accountability from our public health

00:11:05.900 officials. We're questioning them. What has the role of the media been over the last two years?

00:11:12.120 And let me ask you a practical question. How can you fight it if so much of politics is shaped by the

00:11:17.940 media? Well, you can't have free and independent media when it's not free and independent of

00:11:24.060 government. And you can't have free speech without a free and independent media. And unfortunately,

00:11:29.160 what we're seeing is a financial dependency on the media, on government by the media. How can media

00:11:35.980 cover the government objectively when the government signs its paycheck? And look, as I mentioned in the

00:11:44.220 past, there was a newspaper in the Soviet Union called Pravda, and Pravda meant truth. And they would

00:11:49.620 plaster it all over walls. And it was also state funded with communist messaging in it. And we saw

00:11:56.200 in the last two years that media was essentially repeating government talking points every day. And

00:12:02.720 it divested itself out of its responsibility to question government. And we saw this narrative as to

00:12:11.300 not if what you're doing making sense, but are you doing enough? That was the only line allowed.

00:12:18.800 It's regretful that media would not allow for dissenting voices. I think good conversation is

00:12:24.720 good not just for democracy, but for public policy. And I'm fairly convinced that if we had more voices

00:12:31.400 in the conversation talking about our COVID response, then probably we would have all would have been

00:12:38.980 better off. You know, I look at what Justin Trudeau's focus is, what his priorities are. And he has so

00:12:46.140 many bills he's introduced that have to do with regulating the media, regulating the internet,

00:12:51.560 Bill C-11, Bill C-18, Bill C-36, another bill called the Online Harms Act. So he's got four

00:13:00.360 legal or legislative projects to do with censorship. I don't think he has four legislative projects to do

00:13:08.020 with inflation or to deal with housing. Like, he seems to be obsessed with it. Why is Justin Trudeau

00:13:15.180 so focused on regulating the media?

00:13:20.340 I think that he believes that he's in a communications and an information exercise.

00:13:26.360 I think he also lacks the confidence to deal with issues or his opponents head on, because he knows he

00:13:33.900 lost on the science, and he is morally bankrupt. And so it would be advantageous to the government

00:13:40.400 to maintain a narrative that would not allow them to cede the events over the last couple of years.

00:13:47.480 Which is why I say it's very important that history regards what happened fairly. Canadians were exposed

00:13:52.060 to new tactics that we haven't seen before. Segregation, psychological manipulation, censorship.

00:13:57.620 If the narrative survives, and those are deemed to be justifiable, then we will never fully go back

00:14:04.780 to normal, and we'll never get our democracy back. But this actually, this is a good point to go back

00:14:09.900 to the point about the Soviet Union, is that it tried very hard to maintain a certain narrative,

00:14:16.120 and it would do so using the news media. And even though it was clear to everyone that what the news

00:14:24.440 media is tendering is objectively false, it still stuck to the script to preserve the government's image.

00:14:34.120 This is very, very frightening. But hopefully at the end, it collapses under the weight of its own falsehood.

00:14:42.120 There's a new term they're using. Disinformation, misinformation. So you don't debate the other

00:14:51.040 side. You silence them. You cancel them. I see just recently former CSIS personnel saying this is a

00:15:01.360 national security issue. It's not a difference of opinion. It's a national security issue. There's an

00:15:06.220 implication that there's foreign meddlers. There was even the CBC saying that the trucker convoy was

00:15:13.580 organized by Vladimir Putin. Here's a clip of that. You know, given Canada's support of Ukraine

00:15:19.460 in this current crisis with Russia, I don't know if it's far-fetched to ask, but there is concern that

00:15:26.720 Russian actors could be continuing to fuel things as this protest grows, but perhaps even

00:15:33.940 instigating it from the outset. What about this tactic of labeling dissenters

00:15:41.180 disinformation? I feel like it's dangerous. I feel like we're criminalizing a difference of opinion.

00:15:49.340 It's very threatening. First of all, everything that Justin Trudeau said about the trucking convoy was

00:15:56.260 false. We know that there are no weapons found on site. There was very little foreign funding.

00:16:01.340 The arson was not connected, and there was no evidence of any foreign collusion.

00:16:08.080 I'm very saddened by the fact that the CBC allowed the story to run. Thankfully, subsequently withdrew the

00:16:15.320 story on foreign collusion, but no one ever pays any attention to the retraction. And so it's important

00:16:24.920 to appreciate that the burden of proof has to be on government, not on the people. If government is

00:16:30.200 going to engage in this extraordinary action, where it abridges our liberties, where it invokes the

00:16:38.660 Emergencies Act, where it potentially locks us down or fundamentally alters our way of life, then the burden of

00:16:47.840 proof must rest on the government. And that is what the media is failing to do. They are being used by

00:16:55.360 government to come down on dissent, to shelter diversity, diverse opinion. And instead, they're

00:17:07.040 being used as a tool by government to propagate its message when it's really the government that should be

00:17:13.840 held to the burden of proof. The Emergencies Act has a provision where the invocation of that act

00:17:20.720 has to be reviewed afterwards. I think the Liberals are trying to hide from that. But the last two years

00:17:28.180 of lockdowns, there's no requirement to review them, to review what the public health officers ordered,

00:17:35.180 to review the ever-changing advice, to review the side effects of the lockdown. Should we have some sort of

00:17:43.580 truth and reconciliation commission where we review maybe a judicial review of what happened? How can

00:17:50.360 we just not let it slide? Because if we don't explore what went wrong, we're going to make those

00:17:57.640 mistakes again. In fact, the other side doesn't even think it was a mistake. Ezra, every room I go to,

00:18:04.460 people ask me about accountability. Can we hold the government accountable? And my answer always is,

00:18:09.700 you're not going to hold the government accountable for as long as the government remains in power.

00:18:13.320 because they get to devise and construct the process. And this is a very good example of that

00:18:20.320 is the review of the invocation of the Emergencies Act. But really is supposed to happen is the

00:18:26.900 government needs to review the propriety or an independent body needs to review the propriety

00:18:31.360 of the invocation. Instead, what Justin Trudeau has done is he set up a process with leading

00:18:37.780 questions whereby he continues the prosecution of ordinary Canadians. And this is very regretful and

00:18:45.820 dangerous. So I think that the best thing we can do right now is to try and unite politically,

00:18:52.100 where we end Justin Trudeau's tenure the next time we get an opportunity. And then we'll have access to

00:18:59.100 information, to records, to emails, to subpoena power, where we can actually review what transpired

00:19:07.100 in the last couple of years and potentially hold the government, the former government accountable.

00:19:12.100 But we can't do that for as long as the government controls the legislative process, and in fact uses

00:19:19.100 the legislative process and government resources to calm down or potentially thwart its political opponents.

00:19:27.100 Most of the lockdowns have been lifted, but one very important piece remains in place, and that's the

00:19:33.100 no-fly list for unvaccinated people, the fact that they're banned from taking trains.

00:19:40.100 I'm unaware of any other country in the world that still segregates people politically, and there's no...

00:19:46.100 I don't believe this is scientific basis, but I don't sense a feeling of crisis in the media,

00:19:52.100 in the establishment, amongst the medical community. I think this is an international...

00:19:59.100 It's shocking. It's a civil rights blemish, but I don't see a sense of urgency out there

00:20:07.100 about this civil liberties crisis, and Trudeau doesn't seem like he wants to change.

00:20:12.100 Ezra, I think this is one of the most shameful episodes in Canada's history.

00:20:16.100 The fact that we have discriminated and segregated people that... Canadians that made a different medical choice.

00:20:23.100 It's something that saddens me immensely. To go back to my point about the Soviet Union,

00:20:28.100 you could also not board a plane to exit beyond communist walls.

00:20:33.100 To know that there are more than three and a half million Canadians that can't board a plane,

00:20:36.100 I think should upset 35 million Canadians. Add to that the fact that they see their liberties eroding,

00:20:41.100 and they feel that they're landlocked, and that must create a lot of fear in their hearts.

00:20:47.100 And to know that there are Canadians that are afraid of their own federal government,

00:20:51.100 in my view, is reason enough to rid ourselves of Justin Trudeau.

00:20:56.100 There is no sense of urgency because the media, the medical community, they will not want to own up

00:21:01.100 to the fact that they have propagated an unprecedented event of discrimination and segregation against Canadians.

00:21:09.100 They know that the science does not bear their case, but why would they retreat?

00:21:14.100 Because that would mean that they would have to own up to what transpired in the last year, year and a half,

00:21:19.100 and they wouldn't want to do it. And look, I think that we have to communicate a sensible proposition that they have lost on the science.

00:21:28.100 We know from the chief medical officer, we know even from the manufacturer,

00:21:32.100 that two shots offer minimum protection against infection.

00:21:35.100 And that means that any suggestion that anyone's risk of infection transmission is lower because the risk of infection is lower.

00:21:43.100 It's completely false. It's out the window. No one's putting anyone at risk. No one's putting others at risk.

00:21:48.100 It's a false proposition that we have to oppose.

00:21:51.100 What you just said there could probably cause a video to be deleted on YouTube or other social media on Facebook or Instagram.

00:22:01.100 And if you were a medical doctor or a nurse practitioner who took that point of view, you would have a real risk of being investigated by the College of Physicians and Surgeons or other regulators.

00:22:13.100 I think that doctors and nurses are still being pressured and silenced.

00:22:20.100 What do you say about that profession? I feel like the profession has failed, but anyone who's tried to push back has been silenced.

00:22:29.100 How do you fix that?

00:22:31.100 I speak to a lot of doctors that are very concerned about what's transpiring in their profession.

00:22:36.100 We have never seen such government intervention into our nation's medical offices.

00:22:43.100 And I don't understand where government needs to be in the business of medicine to begin with.

00:22:48.100 Those are personal decisions between ourselves and our doctors.

00:22:52.100 Regulated professionals were gagged and threatened into submission.

00:22:57.100 I'm of the view that, especially if regulated health professionals were able to speak freely, we would have been out of this mess probably as early as June 2020,

00:23:06.100 when we could have reassessed and rebalanced the risk, understood where the risk is, acknowledge how transmissible the virus is,

00:23:12.100 and potentially arresting it through lockdown is probably not going to work.

00:23:16.100 And then not questioning basic propositions with respect to vaccination.

00:23:20.100 We know that it potentially reduces risk, but it doesn't reduce transmission or infection.

00:23:24.100 And we know that it wanes over time.

00:23:26.100 So why subject someone to something that potentially may not yield efficacy towards them not spreading the virus elsewhere?

00:23:35.100 Look, I think that regulated professionals, and this is common in all regimes, you often see demonstrations overseas.

00:23:45.100 It's typically the lawyers, the students, the judges, the doctors.

00:23:50.100 Governments, authoritarian governments have a habit of doing this.

00:23:54.100 Because I think for as long as there is credible opposition to government, it is unable to engage in the remarkable activities that we've seen in the last couple of years.

00:24:08.100 So it starts with credible voices on the other side.

00:24:11.100 Well, let's touch on that, because in the United States, you had 50 states with different approaches.

00:24:20.100 You had some real heavy lockdowns in New York and California.

00:24:25.100 But you had sort of experiments in South Dakota, in Florida, in Texas.

00:24:32.100 So you had a variety of approaches, even within a particular party.

00:24:37.100 There were lockdown Republicans and anti-lockdown Republicans like Rhonda Sanders in Florida.

00:24:43.100 But in Canada, every provincial government was for lockdowns, no matter what stripe they were.

00:24:51.100 New Democrat, PC, Liberal.

00:24:54.100 But even more strangely, every opposition was also in favor of lockdowns.

00:25:00.100 And federally, Trudeau was for lockdowns.

00:25:03.100 But until Erin O'Toole was ousted, so was that party.

00:25:07.100 I mean, in the last couple of months, you've seen the party criticize the no-fly list.

00:25:13.100 Melissa Lantzman has been doing a good job on that.

00:25:16.100 But what happened to the Conservative Party or any other purportedly opposition party?

00:25:23.100 Why didn't the opposition parties oppose?

00:25:26.100 They felt that there's too much political risk to oppose.

00:25:30.100 This was a remarkable event in modern history.

00:25:34.100 We saw a virus that we haven't seen before, potentially very transmissible,

00:25:39.100 with what was thought to be a high fatality rate until we understood how transmissible it is, thereby making the metrics lower.

00:25:45.100 So this narrative formed that we have to do everything possible to protect each other.

00:25:52.100 That was the political correct thing of the day to do.

00:25:56.100 And that political correctness, as it typically does, was fortified by cancel culture.

00:26:01.100 And so any suggestion that someone should not go along with what would be politically correct would be answered with a very aggressive backlash or, as we deem it now, cancellation.

00:26:17.100 Well, that's what happened to you.

00:26:19.100 Well, I was asked to leave the Conservative Caucus.

00:26:22.100 So you were a member of the provincial parliament in Doug Ford's government.

00:26:28.100 When did you start to say, I'm not going along with the mob here?

00:26:34.100 How early was it that you started to say things aren't right?

00:26:37.100 I first started questioning the lockdown within my own government around the middle of May 2020,

00:26:44.100 because I understood two things.

00:26:46.100 Number one, public health told us that almost 80% of everyone that passed away were in a long-term care home.

00:26:52.100 And that, of course, is regretful.

00:26:54.100 But that means that we need to increase our staffing and increase our effort to protect those in long-term care homes.

00:27:01.100 So I asked, why don't we actually focus on long-term care homes instead of locking everyone down?

00:27:05.100 And the answer was, well, the higher the rate of transmission in the community, the higher the rate of transmission inside the long-term care home,

00:27:13.100 which I thought was absolutely ridiculous.

00:27:15.100 All it takes is one agency worker to come into a home, bring COVID, and God forbid, half of them will die.

00:27:20.100 And the other thing that happened was we started seeing all sorts of serological studies from around the world

00:27:26.100 that concluded that the infection rate is significantly higher than we thought.

00:27:31.100 There were studies out of Spain, out of France, out of California saying for every person that we actually test positive for COVID,

00:27:37.100 there's another 20 out there walking with COVID.

00:27:40.100 I think Stanford came up with something as high as between 20 and 50.

00:27:44.100 That, I believe, to be very, very good news because that meant that all the metrics that we're worried about were actually 20 to 50 times lower, hospitalizations and deaths.

00:27:53.100 And so at that point, I asked that we reassess the risk and at the same time consider the collateral harm of lockdowns.

00:28:03.100 So when you say you asked that, I know there was a point where you started to ask that publicly.

00:28:08.100 You wrote a public letter, very meticulously footnoted, to the premier.

00:28:12.100 But how did you, did you start by asking questions in caucus or did you try and express things and work within the system?

00:28:21.100 And if you did, what happened to you?

00:28:23.100 I have to respect caucus confidentiality and I have, in fact, since I was asked to leave government in early January 2021.

00:28:33.100 But you can say if you brought it up.

00:28:35.100 Absolutely. It's well known that I was opposing our public health measures as early as May 2020.

00:28:41.100 And were there others? And again, you don't have to identify them, but I mean, I know there were others.

00:28:45.100 I know there were others who were upset about things, were concerned about things, but didn't have the courage to really say it publicly.

00:28:54.100 There were, it was widely known that there was some opposition within the conservative government to our public health exercise.

00:29:06.100 I think that Doug Ford enjoyed the success, the perceived success he had after June 2020.

00:29:15.100 Cases went down, well, because it's summer, and you remember that they've enjoyed record popularity.

00:29:22.100 And so he thought, well, why would he retreat from this narrative?

00:29:26.100 If cases go back up, which is something that I've suggested in early June, that we're going to be back at the same point,

00:29:33.100 because cases are going to go up at some point in the fall.

00:29:38.100 Their thinking was that, since we've done this before, we probably have to do this again.

00:29:45.100 Or else, how are we going to explain locking down healthy people for about two to two and a half months?

00:29:50.100 And so they stuck to the script without being willing to admit an error.

00:29:55.100 And that's the thing, no one would fault them for the first lockdown.

00:29:58.100 No one knew what we're up against.

00:30:00.100 No one knew what was happening until at least April or May 2020.

00:30:04.100 And so it's regretful that I think the entire exercise was mainly political in that doing something different the subsequent time around would lead people to say,

00:30:18.100 well, why did you do this last time?

00:30:20.100 And especially during the third lockdown, when we went again into lockdown in spring 2021, having completely understood what the risk is,

00:30:32.100 and having also vaccinated more than 80 to 90% of the population after we were told that we're going to go back to normal subsequent to vaccination.

00:30:41.100 It's very, very important that history regards all of this fairly, Ezra.

00:30:48.100 And I'm concerned that it might not.

00:30:50.100 Because if the narrative survives, then they will justify the methods that were used on Canadians.

00:30:56.100 And that cannot happen.

00:30:58.100 Well, I watched the provincial election debates, Doug Ford and his new Democrat and liberal opposition.

00:31:07.100 And they had very gentle and very brief criticism of him.

00:31:12.100 But how could they?

00:31:13.100 If anything, they wanted him to go further.

00:31:16.100 I think that's the problem is there is no party running provincially that is in a meaningful way challenging what Doug Ford did.

00:31:24.100 And his answer was very flippant.

00:31:26.100 He said, well, I made the tough decisions and you had the easiest job in the world just watching.

00:31:31.100 I think Doug Ford's going to get away with it.

00:31:34.100 I don't think there's been any scrutiny in the media by the opposition party, by the courts, by the colleges of physicians and surgeons, by really any other entity.

00:31:44.100 I think the official view is it worked.

00:31:49.100 But I don't know if Canadians believe that.

00:31:52.100 I think if they had a choice, they might be able to express themselves differently.

00:31:55.100 What do you think?

00:31:56.100 I just regret that there's no political option for real dissenters on this stuff.

00:32:02.100 I think that it's important that Canadians appreciate the full effect, the toll and the resulting consequences of what transpired in the last couple of years.

00:32:13.100 The premise behind my argument in January 2021, that while COVID is a serious infection and may be risky to certain demographics, we must consider the collateral harm of lockdowns and reevaluate our public health response accordingly.

00:32:28.100 And now, unfortunately, we're seeing the collateral harm manifest itself very, very clearly.

00:32:34.100 For instance, the Canadian Mental Health Association came out as early as last April and said that already more than 4000 Canadians passed away as a result of their surgeries being delayed.

00:32:44.100 Ontario canceled or delayed more than 350,000 surgeries.

00:32:48.100 We know from, for instance, Dr. Singh in McMasters, who said that she would have been able to save many kids whose tumors were diagnosed too late.

00:32:58.100 If they were just diagnosed six months earlier, she said, I would have been able to save them.

00:33:03.100 And Ontario missed more than a million cancer screenings.

00:33:08.100 And of course, we know that cancer screenings are not random.

00:33:12.100 It's something that people that are looking for cancer are doing or certain predisposition.

00:33:17.100 We have a mental health pandemic that's gripping our country.

00:33:20.100 I think generally ask any employer in the country and they'll tell you that their employees are suffering from some sort of a post-trauma.

00:33:26.100 And I see that in my everyday life with pretty much everyone I interact with.

00:33:32.100 Our kids have regressed considerably.

00:33:34.100 I speak to a teacher who is a grade three teacher and she tells me that her kids read at a grade one level.

00:33:41.100 We have done colossal harm to our health and mental health.

00:33:45.100 We have an almost doubling rate of deaths from overdose.

00:33:49.100 This is a catastrophe that has been perpetuated by government.

00:33:53.100 And I think that part of the reason why you're not seeing this willingness to come out and acknowledge that

00:33:59.100 is because so many of the actors that have been involved in this exercise bear responsibility,

00:34:05.100 whether it's medical regulators, the media, social media and censoring dissent.

00:34:11.100 And they're not going to come around and own up to it.

00:34:14.100 So I'm going to continue to try and speak about this.

00:34:17.100 It's important for those.

00:34:20.100 It's not just important for public policy going forward.

00:34:23.100 I think it's important for foreclosure and justice for a lot of Canadians that were very affected by this.

00:34:29.100 It's I think it's the issue of our age.

00:34:31.100 I can't think of anything more important from a health point of view, from an economic point of view, from a civil liberties point of view.

00:34:36.100 There are other things that I want to talk to you about.

00:34:38.100 But let me ask you just one last partisan question.

00:34:41.100 I've seen in the anti lockdown movement a coalition that I couldn't have imagined two years ago.

00:34:49.100 I see former Green Party members who can't believe that their party is now the party of big pharma.

00:34:55.100 I see former liberals who can't believe that their party used to be my body, my choice.

00:35:02.100 Keep your hands off my body. And it's now for mandatory injections.

00:35:05.100 I see former new Democrats wondering why collective bargaining was thrown out the window and unions just agreed to fire workers who weren't jammed.

00:35:16.100 I feel like if you add up this new coalition, even people who were who took the vaccine against their against their choice.

00:35:27.100 They weren't necessarily forced, but they did it because they would have lost their job or not.

00:35:32.100 But I think that there's a large coalition that has emerged.

00:35:36.100 What do you think of that?

00:35:38.100 Is it possible to cobble together something bigger than the old Conservative Party if you reach out to this to these different parts of society that were disenfranchised?

00:35:50.100 Absolutely.

00:35:51.100 Just very quickly on the jobs part.

00:35:53.100 I think making someone choose between their personal health choice and their ability to put food on the table is inhumane.

00:35:59.100 Which is why I brought the jobs and jobs bill last year and shame on the Doug Ford government for voting it down.

00:36:06.100 But, you know, Ezra, I think we're seeing a political realignment of party loyalty.

00:36:15.100 And that is because I think COVID and COVID response has turned everything on its head.

00:36:20.100 I have a lot of friends that formally identify themselves as Green Party supporters.

00:36:25.100 And they joke with me, Roman, I used to not take Advil.

00:36:30.100 And now I have to vaccinate in order to lead a normal life.

00:36:34.100 I speak to a lot of what I refer to as classical liberals.

00:36:39.100 The Paul Martin types that believe in the soundness and the necessity of our democracy.

00:36:45.100 And they cannot believe the censorship and the government overreach they're seeing.

00:36:51.100 And they're rightfully very concerned about that.

00:36:53.100 But I think the greatest category of disenfranchised voters are former New Democrats.

00:36:58.100 The labor movement, many in the labor movement, feel that the New Democrats have abandoned them.

00:37:04.100 That they refuse to stand up for their jobs.

00:37:06.100 Shame on Jagmeet Singh.

00:37:08.100 Shame on Andrea Horwath for not standing up for the very people that they always claim to have championed.

00:37:15.100 And I think a lot of workers now feel that the New Democrats refuse to stand up for them.

00:37:24.100 And union bosses also refuse to stand up for their jobs.

00:37:28.100 I have some faith that as we approach the next federal election, we're going to be able to build,

00:37:37.100 and I certainly intend to build, a very large voting coalition that includes many voters that previously voted for another party.

00:37:46.100 Yeah, I can't stop thinking about that Unifor member who said if the company and the union are saying the same thing, one of them is not necessary.

00:37:55.100 And he was talking about Unifor just agreeing to all these new demands that weren't in their collective agreements.

00:38:02.100 We're seeing really unprecedented response by unions to this remarkable policy that essentially changes your underlying contract of employment.

00:38:17.100 Unions are vested with legal requirement to protect their membership.

00:38:21.100 And yet in many cases, we're now seeing that they abdicate that requirement.

00:38:26.100 Many Canadians know that I have good relationships with first responders.

00:38:32.100 I love the police. I love our EMS and our firefighters.

00:38:37.100 You know, I speak to police officers who are suspended without pay.

00:38:41.100 And they say, I could have been accused of criminal conduct,

00:38:46.100 and I would have been suspended with pay pending the investigation until I'm convicted.

00:38:51.100 And even then in many cases, until the appeal is usurped, I still get my pay sitting at home.

00:38:55.100 And here, I'm making a medical choice, and I'm being made to sit at home without pay, while our streets are less safe.

00:39:06.100 It's a bizarro world, Ezra.

00:39:10.100 We're seeing not just a bizarro world, but we're also seeing COVID paralysis,

00:39:18.100 resulting from the fact that we've engaged in so many remarkable decisions that nothing works anymore.

00:39:23.100 Whether it's our lineups at the airport, right?

00:39:26.100 You can't get through anywhere.

00:39:28.100 Or the fact that, you know, everything seems to be slower.

00:39:33.100 It's hard to get a cup of coffee at Tim Hortons, because there's a major leisure shortage.

00:39:38.100 I'm very concerned about the welfare of our country.

00:39:43.100 Well, let's talk about an issue that, on the face of it, is not about COVID and lockdowns,

00:39:50.100 but I think it started because of the government reaction.

00:39:54.100 Let's talk about inflation, the price of gasoline, the price of everything.

00:39:58.100 Even food shortages, incredibly.

00:40:01.100 Try buying a used car in this country.

00:40:03.100 I mean, there's so many things that, like you say, feel broken.

00:40:06.100 What's your theory on where this inflation came from?

00:40:10.100 And what are your thoughts on how to stop it?

00:40:13.100 Yeah, so the reason for our inflation is not just that we printed half a trillion dollars,

00:40:20.100 for which we essentially yielded no benefit, but also I think lockdowns and the stoppage of the global economy is very much to blame for it.

00:40:30.100 We essentially stopped the global supply chain three or four times, and then restarted it, causing supply not to catch up with demand.

00:40:40.100 We're in a disequilibrium.

00:40:42.100 I had to have some car repair down, and I dropped my car up at the garage, and there were no parts.

00:40:47.100 They told me we're going to wait for three to four weeks for parts.

00:40:50.100 That's another very common theme in a socialist country, where there is a shortage of basically everything,

00:40:56.100 because there's so much less production.

00:41:00.100 And so that's why you're seeing this rapid inflation.

00:41:03.100 We have an insatiable demand with supply not catching up.

00:41:08.100 The best thing we can do is we can provide the market with some certainty that we're not going to close down again,

00:41:14.100 that we're not going to stop the global economy.

00:41:17.100 That would go a very, very long way to start.

00:41:20.100 And of course, we're spending way beyond our means.

00:41:24.100 We went from a $700 billion debt to a $1.3 trillion debt in a span of two years.

00:41:32.100 We didn't hire a single nurse or built a single hospital for that.

00:41:36.100 And the best thing we can do to catch up with the amount of money in the economy right now is to increase productivity.

00:41:43.100 But we're seeing moves by the federal government to discourage work,

00:41:48.100 whether it's universal basic income or continuation of benefits to those that don't need the benefits,

00:41:53.100 or continuing this fear-mongering.

00:41:55.100 We need to encourage people to go back to work, increase productivity,

00:41:59.100 so the supply of goods and services can catch up with the amount of money in the economy.

00:42:03.100 Is there a special answer on oil prices?

00:42:08.100 I know that Trudeau refuses to build pipelines.

00:42:11.100 He said we should phase out the oil sands.

00:42:15.100 He specifically rejected the request from Ukraine and other Europeans

00:42:20.100 to replace Russian conflict energy with Canadian ethical energy.

00:42:26.100 What's the right answer on oil and gas and pipelines?

00:42:30.100 With respect to Justin Trudeau, this reminds me of firing healthy nurses when we have an unprecedented demand for healthcare workers within the system.

00:42:43.100 It's an ideological exercise.

00:42:45.100 And the same thing that's happening with oil and gas right now.

00:42:49.100 I think that Canada's natural resources are a blessing.

00:42:53.100 I'm not going to let oil and gas be cancelled.

00:42:56.100 It's good for our strategic interests, for our economic bottom line.

00:42:59.100 And it's also good for the planet.

00:43:01.100 Because Canadians can derive energy cleaner and safer than any other nation in the world.

00:43:07.100 And it's not just oil and gas that we need to be talking about.

00:43:10.100 We need to be talking about mining.

00:43:12.100 We have an insatiable appetite right now around the world for precious minerals and metals that Canada is blessed with.

00:43:20.100 And it's great for our northern communities, for our remote communities, for our indigenous communities.

00:43:24.100 I'm very much looking forward to unleashing Canada's economic opportunity.

00:43:29.100 That's probably the best thing we can do to help our bottom line.

00:43:33.100 And to do that, I'd like to propose that we should be a natural resources superpower.

00:43:40.100 We're in Toronto, and the housing prices here, the average home in Toronto proper average is more than $1 million.

00:43:50.100 If I'm not mistaken, prices have gone up 29% in the last year.

00:43:53.100 Vancouver, it's just as crazy.

00:43:55.100 Most cities, it's going up.

00:43:57.100 Young people can't save fast enough to get a day.

00:44:00.100 Every minute you wait, you're further behind.

00:44:03.100 Young people can't move out of their parents' home to start a life.

00:44:07.100 And, I mean, maybe it's going to slow down, but it doesn't seem like it.

00:44:12.100 How do you deal with the skyrocketing housing prices?

00:44:17.100 It's not this way in America.

00:44:19.100 I mean, they have some prices going up, but there's something particular to Canada that's just atrocious.

00:44:25.100 What's going on?

00:44:27.100 Supply.

00:44:28.100 Lack of supply is probably the predominant reason.

00:44:31.100 But before I make some proposals with respect to how we can increase affordability,

00:44:37.100 I'd like to suggest that we should also remember that we have a lot of homeowners.

00:44:41.100 And for many Canadians, their home is the only asset.

00:44:45.100 And when we hear media fear-mongering about the real estate market, and when we have government intervention that artificially seeks to undercut the housing market, compounded with rising interest rates, I think we have to be very, very careful not to have a government-induced correction that will potentially hurt a lot of Canadians.

00:45:11.100 So we've got to be measured.

00:45:14.100 I hear what you're saying.

00:45:15.100 We have the home.

00:45:16.100 They're lucky enough to have one or in.

00:45:18.100 But I just see for anyone under 30.

00:45:22.100 I don't know how you're buying a house in Toronto unless you're a doctor or a lawyer.

00:45:27.100 So there are some concrete steps we can take to increase affordability.

00:45:32.100 For instance, I would like to double the first-time homebuyers exemption.

00:45:36.100 Right now it's $35,000.

00:45:37.100 With a $35,000 down payment, you're not going to get much in the GTA.

00:45:42.100 I will propose to double it to $70,000, maybe index it to inflation after that.

00:45:47.100 I would also propose that we need to increase the supply of land.

00:45:50.100 And for that, we need to divest ourselves of all federal land that is not protected or not environmentally sensitive.

00:45:56.100 Increasing the supply of land will decrease home prices.

00:45:59.100 But most importantly, the best thing we can do for housing is to start investing in transportation and highways again.

00:46:09.100 Building means to get from one place to another is the best way to encourage the construction of new and affordable communities.

00:46:18.100 We built this country on a train, but we don't have the political stomach to build anything anymore.

00:46:22.100 So I will propose that we start building transit and highways again.

00:46:28.100 That will stimulate the construction of new and affordable communities and bring prices towards a more affordable level.

00:46:35.100 Well, you talked about supply, but there's the other side too, which is demand.

00:46:40.100 I want to ask you about two prickly questions about the demand for housing.

00:46:45.100 One is foreign buyers who are just looking for a safe place to put their money.

00:46:50.100 I think it used to be Russia, a lot of people in China.

00:46:54.100 They want to get their money out of their country lest their own government seize them.

00:46:58.100 There's a lot of property in Vancouver being bought by foreign buyers, probably Toronto too.

00:47:03.100 And I don't think that's as big as the second factor, which is immigration.

00:47:09.100 If you have 400,000, three, 400,000 people a year coming to Canada, which is higher than almost any other country in the in the G20, and half of them are going to Toronto or Vancouver, there's no way you're going to keep up.

00:47:24.100 There's no, I mean, you just adding that many people to the biggest cities, it's going to, it's going to jam them up and it's going to, if it doesn't push down wages, it'll certainly push up housing.

00:47:38.100 Do you have anything to say about immigration levels?

00:47:42.100 Or is that something that is off the political table?

00:47:47.100 I think that Canada's multiculturalism and pluralism is a beautiful thing.

00:47:52.100 I'm an immigrant to Canada. I came here when I was 15 and I've had every blessing our country had to offer.

00:47:58.100 And my family and myself were able to contribute positively to our country and I still hope to continue to do that.

00:48:09.100 I think that, you know, Canadian values are not just welcoming, but why do immigrants come to Canada?

00:48:17.100 They come here for democracy and economic opportunity.

00:48:21.100 Those are conservative values.

00:48:23.100 And I think that it's important for the Conservative Party to dispel any history of being anti-immigration and embrace lawful, legal immigration.

00:48:37.100 At the same time, I think it's a necessary thing for Canada because we have an aging demographic and we have a shrinking labor force.

00:48:45.100 One of the greatest challenges that we're experiencing today is the size of the labor force.

00:48:52.100 Thankfully, everyone's hiring.

00:48:56.100 And that is because a lot of folks left or retired from the labor force.

00:49:00.100 So we need to encourage more entry into the market and skilled labor, immigrants, young people, is something that we need to be looking at.

00:49:11.100 It's the only way we can catch up with demand in the labor market.

00:49:15.100 I hear what you're saying about the quality of immigration.

00:49:18.100 You're talking about multicultural and welcoming.

00:49:20.100 And I accept that, by the way.

00:49:23.100 But there's also the quantitative side.

00:49:26.100 I mean, over the past few years, Justin Trudeau has set a number and it feels arbitrary.

00:49:34.100 And every conservative leader, Aaron O'Toole, Andrew Scheer, says, OK, I agree with that number instead of coming up with our own number.

00:49:42.100 And the number is very high and it's growing and it's higher than our competitors.

00:49:46.100 And the only reason I raise it is that, you know, when you add three, four hundred thousand people a year to the country and then mainly go to Vancouver and Toronto, I don't know if you're going to, you know, you can try and fix supply all your life.

00:49:58.100 But there's a demand issue, too.

00:50:00.100 It's a traffic issue and it's a hospital's issue.

00:50:03.100 So do we have to always say yes to Trudeau's number?

00:50:07.100 How do we come up with the number ourselves?

00:50:09.100 And I'm not saying change the ethnic mix.

00:50:12.100 I'm just saying, is there a number that's too high?

00:50:14.100 If Trudeau said half a million a year, if Trudeau said a million a year, do we always have to say yes to Trudeau?

00:50:20.100 But Ezra, it's the shortage of the labor force that also creates inflation.

00:50:23.100 A couple of days ago, I went into one of my favorite restaurants, Bagel Plus at Shepherd and Bathurst for an afternoon lunch.

00:50:31.100 And at two o'clock, they told me they're closing down because they don't have labor.

00:50:35.100 And what that means is in order to attract more people to work because there's a shortage of labor, businesses have to increase their prices.

00:50:44.100 Shortage of labor is now causing massive inflation all over Canada.

00:50:49.100 So instead of thinking just on the demand side, we should be thinking on the supply side of housing.

00:50:56.100 We keep finding ways not to build in our country.

00:51:00.100 We know that municipal issues, provincial governments, generally left of center governments always get in the way of development.

00:51:11.100 And I think we don't have an immigration issue.

00:51:14.100 We have a political and ideological issue whereby we are precluded from allowing supply to catch up with demand.

00:51:24.100 But I'd like to stress again, I speak to a lot of small business owners who tell me that their greatest challenge right now is staffing.

00:51:33.100 And this is not just bad for our economy. It's very bad for our cost of living.

00:51:40.100 And so I'm of view that we need to encourage lawful immigration, but that supply of housing needs to start catching up with demand.

00:51:50.100 Let's switch gears a bit and talk about the conservative leadership race.

00:51:55.100 There's been some interesting debates that the True North debate, I thought, was very lively.

00:52:01.100 Jamil Giovanni and Candace Malcolm did a great job hosting that.

00:52:05.100 The second one wasn't as instructive, but I think there's some real differences amongst the candidates.

00:52:11.100 I think that's a great thing that party members have a real choice.

00:52:16.100 You run a pretty positive campaign because I think you have a lot to say that's unique because of your role in fighting the lockdowns.

00:52:24.100 But I would like to ask you for your thoughts on the other candidates.

00:52:27.100 I think that's fair.

00:52:28.100 I'm not looking for you to trash them.

00:52:31.100 I'm looking for you to distinguish yourself from them.

00:52:35.100 For example, if there was someone contemplating voting for Jean Charest, what would you say to them to make them vote for you instead?

00:52:44.100 Jean Charest seems to think that if we have better health care, then we wouldn't need lockdowns or mandates.

00:52:50.100 And that is where I strongly disagree with Jean.

00:52:54.100 We do not need mandates.

00:52:55.100 We do not need to force anyone to do anything against their will.

00:52:59.100 Sure, we need to build up our health care system.

00:53:02.100 We have one of the most efficient health care systems in the world, one of the lowest amounts of bed in the OECD.

00:53:07.100 But that doesn't mean that we should take extraordinary steps such as locking down healthy people or making Canadians receive treatment that they don't want otherwise received.

00:53:20.100 Jean Charest has been in favor of the carbon tax.

00:53:23.100 In fact, I believe passed one in Quebec.

00:53:25.100 I think that increasing the cost of gas will not discourage people from driving.

00:53:31.100 It will just make it more expensive to drive.

00:53:33.100 So I appreciate his traditional role in our country as someone that they try to keep our country together.

00:53:40.100 I think there's quite a lot to distinguish.

00:53:43.100 How about Leslyn Lewis?

00:53:45.100 Very interesting candidate.

00:53:47.100 Her second time running for leader.

00:53:49.100 She's had some experience in Parliament since then.

00:53:52.100 What would you say to a Leslyn Lewis supporter about why they should vote for you?

00:53:56.100 I frankly like Leslyn.

00:53:58.100 I think she's very intelligent and very capable.

00:54:01.100 I do see an issue with her housing proposal.

00:54:05.100 She proposes much like I do to divest herself of federal lands.

00:54:09.100 But she proposes that we should do it for free.

00:54:11.100 And I don't agree with that.

00:54:13.100 I don't think that we should be giving up taxpayer funded or taxpayer owned land to developers for free.

00:54:20.100 I think that we should look at market or something close to market.

00:54:26.100 But generally speaking, look, I bring a unique perspective to government.

00:54:32.100 I have now demonstrated proven courage and leadership in standing up for Canadians when they didn't have a voice.

00:54:41.100 And so I trust Conservative members to view the field and say, we know we might not always agree with Roman,

00:54:54.100 but we'll always know where Roman stands.

00:54:56.100 And we can count on him to make a difficult decision, even when it's unpopular.

00:55:01.100 Patrick Brown is a good organizer in politics.

00:55:05.100 I think he surprised people when he won the PC Party of Ontario leadership a few years back.

00:55:10.100 He managed to make himself mayor of Brampton, the city with which he had very little connection.

00:55:15.100 I don't think he should be underestimated in terms of his skill of organizing.

00:55:20.100 What would you say about Patrick Brown?

00:55:23.100 And I don't know if you could convince a Patrick Brown voter to vote for you,

00:55:27.100 because I don't know if they're motivated by ideas or if it's more a personal connection.

00:55:32.100 What do you think of him as a candidate?

00:55:34.100 And do you have criticisms of him?

00:55:37.100 So look, first of all, I will, and I've made this point before,

00:55:43.100 I think that it's important that we emerge out of this race united,

00:55:47.100 and that we don't disparage anyone or reparably harm one candidate or another,

00:55:52.100 so we cannot go out and contest the general election.

00:55:55.100 Can you imagine another Justin Trudeau, or even worse, a currency of freelance government?

00:55:59.100 And so this scorched earth approach that some of my fellow candidates have been taken is, in my view, something that they should probably rethink.

00:56:09.100 But look, Patrick is a very good organizer.

00:56:12.100 I certainly appreciate the fact that he has gone to great lengths to invite more communities into the conservative tent.

00:56:20.100 I think it's a good thing, and it's certainly something that I would want to do myself as well.

00:56:25.100 As I said earlier, I think that immigrant values are conservative values.

00:56:29.100 Immigrants come here for opportunity, for freedom, and so we should welcome them into the conservative party.

00:56:35.100 At the same time, I watched Patrick Brown change his approach, to put it lightly, to certain files.

00:56:42.100 He was in favor of, he was against the carbon tax, and then he was in favor of it.

00:56:47.100 He was against the Kathleen Wynne sex ed curriculum, and subsequently changed his mind on that.

00:56:55.100 I would certainly appreciate, and I respect the fact that sometimes people evolve, and views evolve.

00:57:02.100 But at the same time, I think that it's very, very important to remain consistent for the benefit of our voters.

00:57:09.100 And we see this happening often during leaderships, where a candidate runs to the right during the leadership,

00:57:14.100 and then pivots to the left during the general election.

00:57:17.100 And that's certainly not something that I intend to do.

00:57:19.100 I think that voters want to understand who they're dealing with.

00:57:22.100 I think authenticity is very, very important.

00:57:24.100 And you're not going to hear me say anything today that I'm not going to be willing to say during the general election.

00:57:31.100 Pierre Polyev seems to have the momentum in terms of large crowds, media attention.

00:57:38.100 He has some ideas that sound similar to yours.

00:57:42.100 How would you distinguish between yourself and Pierre Polyev?

00:57:45.100 And what would you say to someone who says, well, Pierre Polyev has the momentum, he's a winner, he's got the...

00:57:51.100 to go with him because he seems to be the head of the pack.

00:57:56.100 What would you say to that prospective Polyev voter to win him over to you?

00:58:01.100 So look, I think that Pierre is very intelligent and very articulate.

00:58:05.100 I think he's done a very effective job in the opposition of holding the Justin Trudeau government to account on economic issues.

00:58:14.100 Pierre and I disagree on some issues.

00:58:17.100 I am against supply management.

00:58:19.100 I don't think that we should centrally control how much dairy we should be able to produce or cap the ability or prevent a Canadian's ability to enter into a market and start doing business.

00:58:32.100 Soviet style.

00:58:33.100 It's central planning Soviet style.

00:58:35.100 And so when we talk about gatekeepers, there's no greater gatekeepers than supply management.

00:58:42.100 I am prepared to end equalization by the end of my first term.

00:58:47.100 I look forward to my friends commenting on this issue.

00:58:49.100 I'm also not that...

00:58:52.100 Equalization amongst the provinces?

00:58:54.100 Correct. Equalization payments.

00:58:56.100 I also...

00:58:57.100 I'm not sure how, in fairness, Mr. Polyev made his views on Bill 21 more clear the last time around.

00:59:09.100 I think I'm going to distinguish myself by saying that I'm going to avail ourselves of whatever means necessary to defend the freedom of all Canadians.

00:59:19.100 And that includes all Quebecers.

00:59:21.100 That's the Quebec bill against religious attire for the civil service.

00:59:25.100 Absolutely.

00:59:26.100 Just like I don't think that anyone should make a choice between their ability to put food on the table and a medical procedure, I don't think that we should make anyone choose between their ability to put food on the table and their personal faith.

00:59:37.100 To suggest that you can't be a Jewish observant high school math teacher in Quebec because you wear a kippah.

00:59:43.100 Or you can't be a police officer in Montreal because you're Sikh and you wear a turban.

00:59:47.100 That's un-Canadian to me.

00:59:49.100 And now we see the Legault government going further with Bill 96 where it will now compel doctors to communicate in French only under threat of seizing their medical records.

01:00:01.100 Or demand that companies with over 25 employees communicate and do business in French with the ability to seize their cell phones and then put the onus on the company to justify why they have to speak in English.

01:00:19.100 I think that's un-Canadian as well.

01:00:21.100 And I think that the Conservative Party needs to demonstrate courage and stand up for all Canadians.

01:00:26.100 I have a history of doing that for the last two years.

01:00:28.100 I'm prepared to say what many Canadians or many politicians are afraid to say when it's politically risky.

01:00:38.100 And that's what the voters will always be able to counter with me.

01:00:43.100 One last question for you.

01:00:45.100 We talked about some of the differences amongst the candidates.

01:00:49.100 And there's been some real brawling, especially between Sheree, Brown, and Polyev, I think, on the truckers, things like that.

01:00:57.100 I don't think it's possible for Sheree or Brown to run as candidates if Polyev wins.

01:01:05.100 I think there's just too much, as you said, too many harsh words.

01:01:09.100 I could be wrong.

01:01:10.100 If you do not win the leadership, will you run as an MP if it's Pierre Polyev or if it's Sheree or if it's Brown as a leader?

01:01:21.100 Could you be a candidate for either of those three leaders?

01:01:26.100 I don't know.

01:01:28.100 And it's not necessarily dependent on the outcome of the race.

01:01:32.100 First of all, we're in it to win it.

01:01:35.100 We are truly grassroots movement.

01:01:37.100 We have the lowest average size donation of all campaigns.

01:01:43.100 And we keep exceeding expectations.

01:01:45.100 My application was approved.

01:01:47.100 We raised the $300,000 plus the administrative fee required to enter the race.

01:01:51.100 I think we've surprised some folks in the debate, in both debates.

01:01:56.100 And I'm going to continue to look to exceed expectations and hopefully win this race.

01:02:03.100 I don't want to speculate about the future.

01:02:05.100 I think that it would be important for me to know that I can trust the leader of the party to do what's right by Canadians.

01:02:14.100 I watched my former government, the Doug Ford government, make decisions that were not in the best interest of Ontarians.

01:02:23.100 And especially when lives are on the line, that is something that I was unwilling to digest.

01:02:29.100 And I don't want to be in that position again, where I'm forced to potentially go along with something that my conscious would not permit me to do.

01:02:40.100 At the same time, Ezra, this is a unique time in our nation's history.

01:02:45.100 I'm genuinely concerned for the erosion of our democracy.

01:02:49.100 I can't believe what's happening in our country.

01:02:52.100 Between the Emergencies Act, the 20% of Canadians being treated like second-class citizens.

01:02:58.100 Seizing bank accounts without a court order.

01:03:02.100 I just can't understand how any sensible politician that can potentially help this situation would be sitting on the sidelines.

01:03:13.100 This is why I'm very committed to this race.

01:03:15.100 I'm very committed to this country and to Canadians.

01:03:19.100 I look forward to competing. I look forward to winning.

01:03:23.100 Well, it's been a pleasure talking with you and I wish you good luck in the campaign.

01:03:27.100 And these are indeed serious times and I believe you have some serious ideas.

01:03:33.100 So thank you for being with us.

01:03:34.100 I'm very grateful to Canadians Coast to Coast that have been supporting our campaign.

01:03:38.100 I invite them to register.

01:03:41.100 The deadline for memberships is next Friday.

01:03:44.100 To be eligible to vote is June 3rd.

01:03:46.100 And they're welcome to do so at joinroman.ca.

01:03:48.100 Joinroman.ca.

01:03:50.100 We'll put that under the video on the website.

01:03:53.100 Thanks very much for being with us.

01:03:54.100 Thank you, Ezra.

01:03:57.100 Well, that's our show for today.

01:04:04.100 What do you think of Roman Babber?

01:04:06.100 I enjoyed the interview and I think he thinks very carefully about things.

01:04:10.100 I think he's a smart cookie.

01:04:12.100 To be candid, I don't know if he's got the national profile in the organization to beat some of the other candidates,

01:04:19.100 but I have to be candid with you.

01:04:21.100 I really hope that he continues on in the party if he doesn't make it.

01:04:26.100 And I hope that whoever does win, if Roman Babber doesn't, appoints Babber to the cabinet.

01:04:32.100 I think he brings a lot to the table.

01:04:34.100 That's my view.

01:04:35.100 That's the show for today.

01:04:37.100 Until next time, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters to you at home, good night.

01:04:42.100 And keep fighting for freedom.

01:04:43.100 And let me leave you with another great video from the World Economic Forum,

01:04:48.100 where our team of six journalists have wrapped up a great week.

01:04:52.100 I'll leave you with that.

01:04:53.100 See you later.

01:04:54.100 Good day, Rebels.

01:04:55.100 I'm here with the entire team walking back to the car after what I would call a long three days of chasing down elites at the World Economic Forum here in Davos.

01:05:08.100 Mate, Lewis, last three days, what have you learned?

01:05:11.100 Well, I think I've learned a massive positive.

01:05:14.100 Okay.

01:05:15.100 And that's this year's narrative or theme is all about regaining trust, which paints the picture that people don't trust them.

01:05:23.100 So I take that as a big positive.

01:05:26.100 Beautiful.

01:05:27.100 I can't say I disagree.

01:05:29.100 I think I've seen that too.

01:05:30.100 Savs, come on in.

01:05:32.100 Tell the people three long days.

01:05:35.100 What have you taken away?

01:05:36.100 I think my biggest takeaway, Avi, is that we're essentially living in the globalist ideal world, right?

01:05:42.100 They're far away from the people.

01:05:44.100 They are pushing all of this digital central banking metaverse on us.

01:05:51.100 But are they taking part in that?

01:05:53.100 Are they a part of that in their every single day lives?

01:05:55.100 On top of that, they have approved press here, which is why, again, go to wefreports.com

01:06:00.100 because we're some of the only journalists that are actually on the ground confronting these elites,

01:06:05.100 these globalists that are trying to push these bad ideologies on us, these bad policies on us.

01:06:10.100 So, you know, I've just really learned the importance of one, independent media,

01:06:14.100 and two, that if the World Economic Forum had their way, this is what our world would look like.

01:06:19.100 They would be somewhere remote, far away from the people.

01:06:22.100 We would be suffering from their bad policy, and they would be sipping champagne on the streets.

01:06:27.100 I'm sorry, Savvy, you're going to have to follow that one.

01:06:31.100 What have you learned in the last three days here?

01:06:34.100 Well, if I had to sum up the last three days, it would be hypocrisy, hypocrisy, and a bit more hypocrisy.

01:06:40.100 We've had lecturing us on climate change while flying in by private jets and having cars after cars after cars.

01:06:47.100 We've had wanting to implement digital ID and more surveillance while hiding behind their little sheltered area back there.

01:06:53.100 So, you know, the rich get private lives, but the poor don't.

01:06:56.100 There's guards here armed to the teeth, but they don't like gun control.

01:07:01.100 So they've really reflected the annual WF motto, which is rules for thee, but not for me.

01:07:06.100 Another thing is that there's almost no world leaders here.

01:07:09.100 So they must know that we're onto them.

01:07:12.100 All right. Well said there too.

01:07:15.100 So certainly we've learned a lot here.

01:07:18.100 Jeremy, what about you?

01:07:20.100 Yeah, I would like to follow up with Lewis said.

01:07:22.100 The theme is working together to regain trust.

01:07:25.100 And what have they done to lose our trust?

01:07:27.100 They locked us in our house for two years.

01:07:29.100 They took away our jobs.

01:07:31.100 They mandated dubious medical interventions.

01:07:33.100 And after speaking to them, I learned how ignorant they are of this fact of why trust was lost.

01:07:39.100 Not one time from speaking to all of these attendees that I spoke to did any of those things come up.

01:07:44.100 They're clueless why the trust was lost.

01:07:46.100 They don't know.

01:07:47.100 So the clueless of the elites is definitely on display here at the World Economic Forum.

01:07:52.100 Well, there you have it.

01:07:54.100 And I guess what I learned most from being here is that the elites consider this a safe space for them.

01:08:03.100 And they are absolutely shocked when independent journalists hit them with the tough questions.

01:08:09.100 Now, all of this is only possible with your support at WEFReports.com.

01:08:16.100 Watch the reports, share them all, and help fund our independent journalism here in Davos.

01:08:24.100 WEFReports.com.

01:08:26.100 Thank you to everybody who's made this possible.

01:08:29.100 Thank you.

01:08:30.100 Thank you.

01:08:31.100 Thank you.

01:08:32.100 Thank you.

01:08:33.100 Thank you.

01:08:34.100 Thank you.

Rebel News Podcast - May 27, 2022

EZRA LEVANT ｜ Exclusive interview with Roman Baber, Conservative Party leadership candidate

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