EZRA LEVANT ｜ Freedom under fire： five days, five fights in court for Rebel News
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Summary
Rebel News is either crowdfunding or actually defending itself in various court battles. Today's show is about various court cases that Rebel News is fighting, either through crowdfunding or by actually defending ourselves. Today's episode is about the case of Arthur Pawlowski, the pastor who was convicted for his part in a peaceful protest against the drag queen story hour, and the Libra Libranos book that is still on trial.
Transcript
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Hello, my friends. Today's show is about various court battles that Rebel News is either crowdfunding
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or actually defending ourselves. I'd love it if you got the video version of today's podcast.
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Just go to rebelnewsplus.com and click subscribe. It's eight bucks a month. But that not only gives
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you the video version of the podcast, it helps pay our bills. Because as you know, we will never
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take a dime from Justin Trudeau. All right, here's today's podcast.
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Tonight, five days in the week, five different court battles for Rebel News. It's September
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You fighting for freedom! Shame on you, you censorious bug!
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Hello, my friends. As you can see, I'm actually in an airport. I'm running around so much.
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Yesterday, I was down in Lethbridge, Alberta, covering the sentencing hearing of Arthur Pawlowski.
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He's a very important newsmaker, both in terms of freedom of speech and freedom of religion.
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We're also crowdfunding his legal defense, although his sentencing yesterday, as you know,
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was for time served, so he doesn't go back to jail. He doesn't have any more fines or any more
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penalties. He still has the conviction, the criminal conviction. And we can't let that stand.
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We cannot let it be that giving a peaceful sermon is considered a crime, inciting mischief. And I just
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find it astonishing that that happened. We must appeal it. And I think we've got a good chance
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on appeal, by the way. So that was what we did yesterday. Today, I was in court myself on behalf
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of Rebel News. As I mentioned to you the other day, the Calgary police sent me an email demanding
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that I hand over all sorts of footage that they didn't actually particularize. And they said,
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if I didn't do so within 30 days, I could be imprisoned at the gall of them. And by the way,
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today's day 49 in that 30-day time limit. I'll show you a lot more about that subject.
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Tomorrow, the trial of Derek Reimer, the pastor in Calgary who protested against the drag queen
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story hour, a peaceful protest. He's on trial for breaking some bubble zone law. Calgary now has a
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rule. You can't protest within like 100 meters of a drag queen story hour. Is it that some protected
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space like a military top secret location or something? Again, we are crowdfunding his legal
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defense on Thursday. I'm on trial again. I tell you, it's not my week. The Libranos book that I
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published four years ago is still on trial. Before the court in Toronto, the Trudeau government says it
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was an illegal book, that it wasn't a real book. But because it criticized Justin Trudeau, it should
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be treated as a campaign expenditure or something. And I should have to register with the government
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before publishing a book. By the way, there were 24 books written that same election season about
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Justin Trudeau. Mine just happened to be the only critical one. And surprise, mine was the only one
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that was charged, investigated, prosecuted by Elections Canada, those crooks. So we're battling
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it out in court on Thursday. On Friday, I'm losing track of all the trials. Well, of course,
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there's Tamara Leach's trial, which is going all week. It's been going on for several weeks. I think
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I'm missing a trial in there somewhere. There's so many of them going on. And it falls to Rebel News
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and our friends at the Democracy Fund to lift the load. And it wasn't always this way. It used to be
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that other people cared about civil liberties. There are a few who do. I take my hat off to our friends
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at the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms. And I'm pretty much done my list. I mean, there used
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to be a lot of Canadians who cared about the free press, but not so much now that they've been
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colonized by Justin Trudeau's media bailout. When I was young, I remember reading legal cases
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about freedom of speech. And there was often a lawyer in court representing what they called
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a consortium of media companies. So CTV and CBC and Global and the newspapers and, and, and would all get
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together, chip in maybe a thousand bucks each. And they would hire a lawyer to represent all of them
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to go to court to fight for free speech. It made a lot of sense. It spread the burden out for all the
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companies. And it really packed a punch. When someone would show up in court and say,
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Your Honour, I represent 100 different newspapers and TV stations. And we're here to talk about
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freedom of the press. It actually made a dent. Well, the big companies don't do that anymore.
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I think partly because they only care about one reader now, Justin Trudeau, not about anything as
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abstract as freedom. And the so-called civil liberties groups, where are they? I mean,
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listen, they took a long snooze, like, you know, what, who's not Rumpelstilson. I just,
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I just forgot the name of the guy who went to sleep for 80 years. What's that fable?
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That's what happened to our civil liberties groups. They just went to Rip Van Winkle. That's
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who I'm thinking about. Our Rip Van Winkle civil liberties groups just decided, you know,
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everything's fine. They'll just go on holidays. Even while the pandemic and the lockdowns and the
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vaccine mandates came about, they're certainly not going to get involved over something like freedom of
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speech. So today's show, I told you a few things that are coming later this week, and I'm, believe me,
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I got a lot more to say about my trial on the Libranos. But today's show, I'm going to show you
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a few things. I'm going to show you my discussion with Sarah Miller coming out of Arthur Pavlovsky's
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hearing. And that's a hearty interview. We talk about the importance of the case. We talk about how
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much it's going to cost. And then I talked to Sarah. I literally went with her from her office
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to the court of King's Bench in Calgary, where I was worried that the police were going to fight us.
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But Sarah tells me that at the last moment, the police said, all right, we won't fight you.
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We agree that we did it wrong. And so the hearing in court was actually very brief. I'll show you
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some videos about that. But it's only buying us a little bit of respite. There is no doubt in my
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mind that the police will be coming for us again. And they will demand my footage, our footage. And if we
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don't give it, they will threaten to imprison me. And I do not want to go to jail. But there are some
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principles, I think, that especially someone like me who talks a good game, I think if push comes to
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shove, I think it behooves me to show that I mean all this. And I don't want to go to jail. But there
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are some things that I would go to jail for. And our freedom of the press and the fact that I do not
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believe a cop should simply be able to grab our footage, I think that is one of those things.
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So let me say goodbye now and hand you over to me earlier today, when I interviewed Sarah Miller
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three occasions. Once finishing up what we talked about with Arthur Pawlowski, a second time before
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we went into court against the Calgary police, and a third time when we came out of that court hearing.
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So it's a day full of court cases in a week full of court cases. And I feel self-conscious that I'm
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always asking for help with this. But I really think it has fallen to rebel news to do most of
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the civil liberties law in Canada. I mean, I love the guys at the JCCF, and they're fighting like
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hell on a bunch of files. But all the free speech stuff, all the media stuff, the freedom of the
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press stuff, they do some of that. But so many of those burdens fall to us. And I think we have to
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live up to the occasion. I hope you agree. All right, here's today's show.
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Well, what a day yesterday down there in Lethbridge. There was a bit of a jubilation
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when Arthur Pawlowski stepped out of the court. Time served. He will not have to pay a dollar's fine.
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He will not have to go back to jail. Sarah Miller, you led the charge to beat the sentencing.
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Give us your thoughts as a lawyer of how things went down yesterday.
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Yeah, so of course it's great that Arthur is not going back to prison.
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But it is very disheartening to know that he spent 50 days, over 50 days, 52 days in custody
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for a 20 minute speech. And so this is this is definitely a message from the criminal justice
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system. If you're going to speak at protests, your speech will or could at least attract criminal and
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penal consequences. And so although yesterday was a happy moment for Arthur because he wasn't returning
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back to jail, he wasn't going to serve additional time, which is what the Crown was seeking,
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up to 12 months. And then at court, you heard up to 10 months, which would mean he would have returned
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to custody. That's positive that he didn't. But it's a significant sentence, 60 days. If he had not been
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detained, if his bail had not been refused at first instance, he would have then been facing 60 days in jail.
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He would have been there until November. That's crazy. You know, the judge referred to a number
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of cases for a lot of environmental cases, anti-logging cases, climate cases. And in most of
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those, and these were persistent day after day roadblocks, blocking a bridge. And there was no
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custodial sentence. I remember there was a case of some old growth forest bridge blocker who got a
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suspended sentence. So if you're bad again, you'll go to jail maybe in the future. But it felt like a
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double standard for justice. Most of the cases that the judge seemed to cite, now you correct me if I'm
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wrong here, climate protesters, logging protesters got off with a slap in the wrist. He would have done,
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like you say, two months prison had he not already done two months prison.
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Yeah. So like, we don't know what would have happened with the sentence had our turn not had
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such a considerable amount of pretrial custody time. So there's a possibility that he may also
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have been conditionally sentenced, which as you say, doesn't mean you're returning to jail,
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but means you're going to serve it in the community under, you know, very strict conditions like house
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arrest. So there's a possibility that that would have been the outcome if we didn't have so much
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pretrial custody time. But yeah, you're exactly right. Like people who had been charged multiple
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times with actual mischief, not inciting mischief, people who had injunction orders issued against
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them, people who had ignored police, people who had been engaged in the civil disobedience for over a
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year, you know, doing the same activities for over a year, are getting essentially, you know,
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what we heard was 75 days, right, of conditional sentence. Or we have one where, you know, there's
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a, uh, uh, tower, the Calgary Tower is climbed, a bunch of Greenpeace organized, uh, the court had
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said to military precision, precision to earn fundraising. Yeah. I mean, the Greenpeace commits
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these crimes to make money, make no doubt about it. Yes, exactly. And has crowdfunding available,
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just the same as Archer would, to pay a fine. And they were fined $2,000 each.
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What a laugh. You know what? It's not just that Arthur was convicted of, for saying things like
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hold the line and stand for freedom. Really, any pundit, any journalist, any commentator,
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anyone with a Facebook page who would have said the same thing, if those would have been read or
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heard by a protester, they would be on the hook the same way. Because, because the judge and the
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prosecutors never claimed that Arthur blocked a road, they never claimed he did anything,
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uh, he didn't even go on the road, as far as we know. He just incited them to keep going. And the,
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and the bulk of the proof was he talked about the solidarity protests in Poland 45 years ago,
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or whatever. This can, it's the sentencing, as you pointed out, is outrageous. But the conviction is
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even more terrifying. If giving a sermon that gives encouragement is a crime, then frankly,
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I'm in deep trouble because I encourage civil disobedience all the time. And, and I think half
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the pundits in this country, both on the left and the right, do. I think the conviction itself
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is dangerous. Now, you tell me, are you appealing the conviction itself?
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Yeah. So, uh, Archer has given us instructions to appeal the conviction itself. And for that exact
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reason, right? Like, there, we are now in a world where we, we speak, we can have it live streamed,
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we can be far from, far removed from being in coots and say similar things that Archer said,
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right? Similar words of encouragement or support. And what distinguishes what Archer said compared
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to what anybody else is saying online? And how, how are we going to police speech in that manner?
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Um, and this is really the first time that we're aware of that somebody has been convicted of
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simply speaking, not, not participating. And not only did they not allege or suggest that he
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participated, they admitted in the agreed statement of facts, it's a fact that Archer did not participate
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or block the road. It is simply his speech that we are talking about, the words that he said while
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he was in coots. You know, I've covered a lot of trials around the world. And I was there for the
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trial. What was so interesting to me is there were really no witnesses. It was just the YouTube video
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that Archer himself posted. That's it. We, we had a whole trial going through word for word of his
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sermon. That's insane. By the way, Martin Luther King would have been imprisoned for his sermons
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alone if that were the standard. I mean, Martin Luther King mustered the power of the English
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language and, and the, the, the conviction and the principle that he, of, of the Bible. And he appealed
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to people through their hearts and their minds under the standard set for Pastor Arthur, Martin Luther
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King would have been jailed for his sermons alone. He was jailed for other things, but he would have
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been jailed for his sermons alone. Yeah, absolutely. That, and that's the, that's the concerning aspect
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of this particular decision is that what you say can result in criminal charges. So you don't have
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to participate. You don't have to be a leader. You don't have to be an organizer. You don't even have
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to really explain how somebody should continue. And by the way, there, and there's no need for proof
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that you actually caused anything to happen. There's no proof that anyone listened to, um,
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Pastor Arthur and said, Oh, I'm going to go down to Cooch now, or, Oh, I'm going to stay here.
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There's no proof at all. In fact, we don't even know for a fact that the people who listened to
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that sermon were, were blockaders themselves. He gave a sermon at a saloon in town. I think there
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probably were some truckers there, but none of that was proven. I think this is a very dangerous
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precedent. And of course it's not against Stephen Gilboa, the environment minister who shimmied
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down the CN tower. He, he got off with a slap on the wrist too. Of course it's not. And I think a lot
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of people who were there yesterday in Lethbridge feel in their bones that the justice system is not
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even handed. And this ruling against a right wing Christian pastor who was against vaccine mandates,
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this ruling in the eyes of many conservatives and freedom oriented people will be proof that the
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justice system is unfair. I, and you know what, given the comparison, I mean, they just talked a lot
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about parity with other cases. There was no parody with other cases people. And let me say my point
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of view, Sarah, is I'm trying to keep conservatives in the democratic tent. I'm trying to prove to
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conservatives or freedom loving people, don't give up on the system. We can work within the system. We can
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work within the courts. We can work within independent journalism. We can work like I'm trying to tell
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people don't give up on the system. We can make it work. Yesterday's disproportionate sentence makes
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it bloody hard for me to look those truckers in the eye and say, no, no, the system's apps actually
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fair. You'll be treated as gently as a green feature because that's not the case.
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Yeah. I mean, there's a, there's a big range of sentencing and sentencing is certainly an art and not a
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science. So, and there's going to be implications of having so much pretrial custody time, right? Being
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detained at first instance, having that much pretrial custody time gives the court a lot of latitude to
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say 60 days, seven days, which is what we were saying. It's really the same outcome as Archer's walking
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onto the courtroom at the end of the day, right? So I, I believe still very strongly that the, the courts are
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doing their work that, you know, sometimes we don't agree with decisions. Sometimes we have to go to
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court of appeal, right? So, I mean, why have a court of appeal if they're never going to get it wrong at
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the lower court? And that's, you know, I, I told a lot of people yesterday in the courtroom, outside the
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courtroom, I said, who said, we got to get the judge, we got to impeach the judge. I said, no, judges are
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allowed to get it wrong. And that, that doesn't prove that they're evil if they get it wrong because we
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have a court of appeal to fix it. And we have a Supreme court of Canada fix that. So just because
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a judge caused me wrong, doesn't mean he's corrupt us. I mean, he's evil. It just means he got it
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wrong. That's why we're counting on the court of appeal. And last time you represented Arthur for
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keeping his, his church open, the trial judge made an appalling. You went to the court of appeal,
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got a three to zero ruling by the court of appeal. That was beautiful and actually legally binding.
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Like it's like when the court of appeal makes a ruling, it's binding. It sets a precedent for
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the whole province in a way that had he just won a trial, it wouldn't do. So I actually think you've
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got a real opportunity to take this loss, this conviction, go to the court of appeal and God
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willing overturn it and set a precedent for freedom. It's a painful, lengthy process, but I'm actually
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trying to find the silver lining here. If you can win this thing at court of appeal, that is,
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that is actually a huge win for freedom for everybody, including for Greenpeace. I hate to
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say it. Yes, absolutely. For everyone who wants to protest and engage in democratic processes like
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this case is important. Whether you agree with Arthur's position or not, whether or not you think
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he should have been there, you thought it was stupid that he was there or what have you, this decision
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impacts everybody from every political stripe. And so if we go to the court of appeal and have a
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decision, it's going to be precedential, not only in Alberta, but it's going to be influential across the
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country because inciting mischief has never been dealt with by a court of appeal.
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Yeah. Like, there's, there's just not very much case law in, in the world of case law regarding
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incitement, so... I had no idea. I'm going to ask you, I'm going to ask you a question that I have never
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asked you before on camera, and I hope you'll answer it, um, because there's a point to the question.
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Uh, let me quickly show you a beautiful thing that Arthur said yesterday. I was in the crowd filming,
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and he said, hey, Ezra, come on up here. And then he made a special thank you to me,
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but really what he meant is to rebel viewers for crowdfunding his legal. So I don't want to say
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how much we've spent so far on him because it's a very big number. And, and I think we've gotten
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value for money. We've, we've had a lot of great wins. Here's just a quick, uh, shot of Arthur
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saying some nice things about how we've crowdfunded. Let's take a quick look. Ezra Levan in Rebel News.
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Ezra Levan, you see, this is a man that I have differences with, very public, head on collision,
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but that's how I like it. I'm a Polish immigrant. I believe that the heroes in the Bible were not
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Jews were Polish immigrants. That's the truth. I can't prove it yet, but I'm working on it. And this
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man stood with me and I'm telling you, I fought many battles alone and I lost my houses. I lost my
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properties. They almost took my home away for closure. I couldn't pay taxes because I fought
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lawyers, hundreds of thousands of dollars. And one man cannot do it. One family cannot do it.
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And this man stepped in and says, I'll crowdfund for you. So it doesn't matter what differences we may
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have today. He and his effort paid for our lawyers. And that's the truth. Ezra, I want to thank you for
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that. I am not in prison because you were willing with crowdfunding, with good Canadians, with good
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Albertans to fetch the bill. And I'll always remember that. You know, I really, uh, I'm grateful
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to him for his gratitude through me to our donors. We do have that one last battle. We do. I mean,
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you could walk away right now. Arthur's free. There's nothing else hanging over his head that I know
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about related to the convoy or the pandemic. But we have this last mission to do. We have to get his
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conviction overturned. We have to do it at the court of appeal level to set the binding precedent
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in Alberta and the persuasive precedent in the other provinces and territories.
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I actually think in some ways, this is the most important battle of all. It touches on freedom of
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religion, freedom of speech. And it, if, if we let it stand, it's the criminalization of dissent. I
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really believe that. So here's the question I haven't asked you on camera before, and I hope you'll answer
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it. How much money do you and your team expected to cost to take things from now, prepare the appeal,
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go to the appeal, argue the appeal, fight the appeal, and win the appeal? How many more dollars
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do you need us to crowdfund? And they're just rough numbers because I want, I want people to hear it
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straight from you because we got to do one last mission for Arthur.
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So I, I would hope that this would be possible less than $100,000, but we're going to need to
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counsel. We're going to need to do factums. We need to recreate the, the entire trial record
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for the court of appeal. We need to attend the court of appeal, the court of appeal. You're not
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messing around when you go to the court of appeal. You need to know the case law in and out across the
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country and in other jurisdictions, which means we're doing research in the US and the UK. Um,
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it could be up to a hundred thousand dollars. That's a lot of money.
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There's no two ways about it. Through the Democracy Fund, we're able to issue charitable tax receipts
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for these donations. So that lightens the burden a bit. That's a lot of money. But I do believe
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for Arthur's own sake, we need to appeal because I don't like the fact that he's now a convicted
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criminal. You know, there was some jubilation yesterday because woo, no more time in jail.
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Yeah. Okay. But he's still branded a criminal. There's the stigma of that. It may even cause him
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problems traveling to other countries for all I know. We have to get that stain off of him,
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but much more important, we have to set the precedent for freedom. I feel the same way about Tamara
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Leach's case in Ottawa right now that the Democracy Fund and Rebel News are also crowdfunding for.
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The government is seeking to criminalize, in retrospect, the entire trucker convoy.
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And they'll do so with a conviction, whereas an acquittal will vindicate the entire
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protest. I think what hangs in the balance right now with Arthur is the difference between night and
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day, dark and light. If we can overturn this trial conviction and get an appeal for freedom,
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this will perhaps be the most useful thing we have ever done. And so thank you for that. I did
00:23:47.800
not know your answer before. I just asked it now. It's, it's a large number. You're a winner though.
00:23:53.960
You won in the court of appeal before three to zero. I have a saying, it's a terrible saying,
00:23:59.720
there's nothing more expensive than a cheap lawyer because you don't want to do this and lose. You want
00:24:05.160
to do this and win. I trust you. I've gotten to know you over three years now. You've been battling
00:24:09.960
for Arthur for three and a half years. Can you believe it? It's crazy. There you have it. Um,
00:24:16.680
that's a large number. I, um, I'll stop saying that. But, uh, I think we have to do it for the
00:24:24.600
reasons I said. And many hands make light work. And this is what I said to Arthur yesterday.
00:24:31.560
No poor person could do this. No regular person could do this and no rich person would do this
00:24:36.120
because they wouldn't be rich anymore. You know, if a millionaire, if Arthur was a million,
00:24:40.600
well, Arthur's an unusual case, a regular person being a millionaire would just say,
00:24:45.000
how do I get out of this mess? Just cut a plea deal. Let me get out of this. This is like a rich
00:24:50.840
person is rich for a reason because he's rational with his money. The only way to fight this is with
00:24:57.080
Arthur's natural stubbornness, with an excellent law firm and with crowdfunding. There's no other
00:25:04.680
normal way to win this. And I really believe this. So please go to savearthur.com. If you have come to
00:25:11.480
love and trust Sarah as much as I have over three and a half years ago, we were strangers. I'd never
00:25:15.800
met you before. And we've had some wins. Uh, I'm not going to say for a sixth time, but that's a lot.
00:25:22.440
That's a lot of money. That's a lot of money, Sarah. Lord, thunder and Jesus. But we've got to do it.
00:25:29.080
Last word to you. Yeah. Uh, I mean, this is more than what is happening to Arthur. This is going to be
00:25:36.280
precedential case law and we need to do it right and it needs to be argued right and we need to
00:25:41.000
have it presented to the Court of Appeal right to have it, uh, come out the way we want.
00:25:45.000
There is no one else that I would want in the Court of Appeal other than you and your team.
00:25:50.360
You know Arthur Inside Out. You've worked with him for three and a half years.
00:25:53.960
Uh, you know the facts of this case intimately. You know the law. I've seen your work. Uh, it's,
00:26:01.000
it's excellent. And the judges have said so. Every case I've seen you argue, the judges take time to
00:26:07.000
compliment your, uh, your representations. And I don't think they do that if they don't mean it.
00:26:13.720
So there you have it. We had a win yesterday. There was jubilation yesterday. But it is not
00:26:20.360
actually done. I think Arthur would walk away right now, frankly.
00:26:23.960
Oh, I, I don't think so. You know Arthur. He wouldn't walk away.
00:26:28.040
What I mean by that is he's, he would go back to his life.
00:26:30.280
Yes. Well, he's going to go back to his life, right? Like now it's, now it's a matter for the
00:26:35.400
courts to sort out what the appropriate application was.
00:26:38.360
I, I said that wrong. Arthur fights to the end. He's got that stubbornness in him,
00:26:41.880
which is why he's so unusual. You know, they say reasonable people conform to the world.
00:26:48.040
Unreasonable people make the world conform to them.
00:26:51.560
Therefore all progress depends on unreasonable people. And, and we need a stubborn man with a
00:26:59.080
stiff neck and all he needs is our help to lawyer this thing. So there you have it. This is a heavy
00:27:06.840
pitch, but, uh, we've got, we've got one more mission to do. All right. There you have it, Sarah.
00:27:12.920
Great to catch up with you. I was glad to be down there at the trial and I will be there at the court of
00:27:18.280
appeal. I need your help though, to crowdfund it. Go to savearthur.com. Thanks.
00:27:30.600
Just for those who are wondering, well, what's this all about? What's the video involved?
00:27:58.120
We had a couple of journalists on the scene in front of Western Canada high school,
00:28:01.800
my old alma mater, when there was a tussle between different young people over. I'm not
00:28:07.720
even sure what the issue was. I think it might've been over a trans issue. So I don't know,
00:28:11.720
but we covered it and there was some pushing and shoving and we aired, I think 25 minutes worth
00:28:17.800
of footage. Like it's all there. And for these cops to say, no, no, show us the rest of it. I can't
00:28:23.560
help but think that they're actually trying to find some dirt on Josh Alexander, who we would
00:28:29.640
consider the good guy here. He was, I think the victim of this assault. I think that the cops are
00:28:35.800
trying to dig up something on the victim. I've seen this happen by police before and I, I want to fight
00:28:42.440
it. I don't think that rebel news should have to cough up our material to the cops just because they
00:28:48.440
didn't do their own work. It's 9 19 AM at 10 AM. I have a hearing here at the Calgary court of King's
00:28:59.640
bench. The Calgary police service has issued a production order through a judge saying,
00:29:06.040
if we don't hand over certain materials within 30 days, we could be subject to punishments,
00:29:11.960
including says right there in the order prison. Well, it's been more than 30 days. Today is day 49.
00:29:19.320
Sarah, I, um, Sarah Miller, our lawyer, let me say hello and thank you for being here. We know you
00:29:24.680
from your excellent work with Arthur Pawlowski. Um, the court and the law treats seizing records from
00:29:34.040
journalists in a special way. Police just can't come and seize our files. Can they?
00:29:38.840
Right. So they do need a production order, but they also need to, uh, get the production order from
00:29:43.560
the right level of court. Um, and they need to satisfy certain questions to get that production
00:29:48.520
or when they're talking about evidence from a journalist organization. So that's the issue for
00:29:53.560
today's, uh, appearance is the judge that issued the order, um, didn't, didn't have the right sections
00:30:00.520
of the criminal code in front of him to know that he didn't have the jurisdiction. So it seems, um, so
00:30:05.480
we're going to go in. Um, we have Calgary police has, uh, has endorsed my consent order.
00:30:10.440
They finally did. Cause when we spoke a few days ago, they had not yet signed on that. So we were
00:30:16.360
going to have a tussle today. Yes. So we've got, uh, the Calgary police service, um, their director
00:30:22.600
of legal services has signed the consent order. Now they've agreed that, you know, what we've put
00:30:27.000
forward to them, we wrote a letter to them saying, this is what, how it should have proceeded. We don't
00:30:31.640
think the jurisdiction is correct. That kind of thing they've conceded to that. And so they've
00:30:35.240
now signed the consent order. We're going to go in and explain it to the court. Hopefully get the
00:30:39.400
previous order that you're now, uh, overdue on, so to speak, um, overturned and quashed.
00:30:44.840
And we'll go from there. Can I ask you when they finally signed this consent order? Cause last time
00:30:49.160
we spoke, they hadn't done it yet. So I don't know exactly what day I was obviously in court yesterday
00:30:54.040
with Archer. I think I had it on Friday. It may have been earlier than that though. I, I honestly don't
00:30:59.800
recall. Okay. But it was pretty close to it. Anyways, I'm, I'm glad to hear that. That's
00:31:04.200
basically the Calgary police service admitting that their court order to seize our materials
00:31:10.920
was invalid. Am I correct in saying that they're basically admitting what they tried to do had no
00:31:16.440
basis in law, frankly was illegal. Yeah. I wouldn't use the word illegal, but certainly that they, that
00:31:22.120
they misstep, they didn't follow the right procedure. And so they're, they're agreeing that
00:31:25.560
that order is no longer valid. Now, I mean, I understand what an ex parte hearing is in Latin.
00:31:32.120
That means the other side's not there. Only one side is there. And that's used for very special
00:31:36.840
reasons when you don't want to give the other side notice. If you're doing a raid on a biker gang,
00:31:41.800
for example, you don't want to let them know that the raid is coming. So I can understand that.
00:31:46.520
Why would the Calgary police service have an ex parte hearing in secret and use secret documents
00:31:54.200
to get a production order against rebel news? I don't quite understand. And I understand you
00:31:58.840
asked the cops for their secret documents. You asked for what they showed the judge.
00:32:04.040
Have they gotten back to you yet? I remember when we spoke about this a week ago, they had not
00:32:07.800
have they yet disclosed to you the secret information they told the judge and the secret hearing.
00:32:13.320
Right. So when we asked for the records that they had produced to the judge and in support of this,
00:32:19.240
they said they, they wouldn't give them to us or that they couldn't give them to us and that we
00:32:23.160
should go to the courts. Well, we went to the courts and of course it's all under seal. We
00:32:27.320
can't access anything. They're saying there's nothing there. Um, and this is not unusual for
00:32:32.520
this type of production, right? Remember we are talking about a criminal investigation,
00:32:37.160
some fairly serious charges that have been laid, including sexual assault or that we understand
00:32:41.640
have been laid based on the order, um, has nothing to do with rebel news, but they don't necessarily want
00:32:49.240
to have criminals have a heads up about the evidence that's being collected or any opportunity
00:32:55.080
for the evidence to be destroyed before they get the order in place. Right. But, but this was used to
00:32:59.880
get an order against us, frankly, against me. When, when the order said there could be prison,
00:33:04.680
I presume that that would fall on me. Um, so the likelihood of me being in prison today, you're saying
00:33:11.640
is, uh, now gone. That I will not be in prison. I didn't think it was very high, but if the police were not
00:33:17.560
consenting to it, uh, there was a chance of it. You're saying that I will not be jailed today.
00:33:22.760
That's right. No, there should be no jail today. As far as I know, unless you've been doing something
00:33:26.920
else that I'm not. Not that I know. It was just a little bit startling to get this order from the
00:33:31.640
police, a surprise, surprise, hand over all your files or go to prison. I'm not used to that.
00:33:37.480
Well, and, and the way that they purported to serve it, right, which was part of our,
00:33:41.240
our correspondence to the police, they just sent it to a, a generic rebel news email address.
00:33:46.360
Yeah. That's not, that's not real law. Like there was so many things wrong with it. I counted five
00:33:50.360
things wrong with it. Wrong court, wrong burden of proof, wrong way of serving it, wrong standard
00:33:57.160
of law. There was so many things wrong with this. Is the Calgary police service just that
00:34:04.280
useless? Or do you think that there was a little bit of a, let's get rebel here, no matter how?
00:34:09.400
Well, I actually think that, you know, maybe I'm naive or maybe I have too much faith in the system.
00:34:15.640
I actually think that the criminal code changed a few years ago. And although a couple of years
00:34:20.760
ago sounds like a lot to you or I, um, you know, we're talking about police officers who are
00:34:26.520
front of line, who aren't necessarily dealing with obtaining evidence from a journalist.
00:34:32.200
Well, surely, surely this cop worked with a lawyer, like the Calgary police has lawyers,
00:34:37.240
the attorney general is lawyers. Surely this was a lawyer before they went after rebel news. I can't
00:34:41.320
help but think, Sarah, you know, we fight with police forces around the world. Seriously,
00:34:45.480
we've, we've sued police in Toronto, in Montreal, the RCMP, even in Australia, we fight with police
00:34:53.800
all the time. But the only police force that has tried to seize our documents with a punitive
00:34:59.640
production order are the Calgary police. And I wonder if that's a coincidence, because we have
00:35:06.040
scrutinized their misconduct in Arthur Pavlovsky's case, like that gangland style arrest of Arthur on
00:35:12.360
the highway. That's not policing. That's shock and awe to terrorize people. The way they arrested Tim
00:35:17.800
Stevens in front of his family, the way they threatened to taser Ocean Weisblatt. This is one
00:35:22.840
of the most abusive police forces in the country in my books. And we have documented every step of
00:35:28.280
the way. I can't help but think this was some cop who said squash rebel news. No other police force
00:35:34.760
in the world has tried to seize our documents other than these. I don't know. This is all my speculation.
00:35:39.640
We don't know what's in the mind of these guys, but clearly knowing the law is not in their mind either.
00:35:44.360
Yeah, I, I'm of the sense of, I don't know if they got legal advice before. I don't know that they
00:35:50.120
do that as practice when they're getting production orders. I think that it was, um, ignorance of the,
00:35:56.200
the law rather than anything purposeful, but we'll see how they, how they proceed going forward. If they
00:36:03.320
go and get an order from the higher court, what there's no reason at this point in my estimation
00:36:08.840
to keep it ex parte, right? So they should, we've asked for notice. Hopefully they'll give us notice
00:36:13.400
going forward and, uh, we'll see how they conduct themselves. You know, um, just for those who are
00:36:20.120
wondering, well, what's this all about? What's the video involved? We had a couple of journalists
00:36:24.360
on the scene in front of Western Canada High School, my old alma mater, when there was a tussle
00:36:29.480
between different young people over, I'm not even sure what the issue was. I think it might've been over
00:36:34.440
a trans issue. So I don't know, but we covered it and there was some pushing and shoving and we aired,
00:36:40.600
I think 25 minutes worth of footage. Like it's all there. And for these cops to say, no, no,
00:36:46.840
show us the rest of it. I can't help, but think that they're actually trying to find some dirt
00:36:52.680
on Josh Alexander, who we would consider the good guy here. He was, I think the victim of this assault.
00:36:59.160
I think that the cops are trying to dig up something on the victim. I've seen this happen by police
00:37:04.680
before. And I, I, I want to fight it. I don't think that rebel news should have to cough up our
00:37:11.160
material to the cops just because they didn't do their own work. There were plenty of cops there.
00:37:15.720
They, they witnessed things for themselves. They could have videotaped it. I do not work for the
00:37:19.640
Calgary police. I don't work for any police. And for them to think they can just take our journalists
00:37:24.920
stuff and throw me in prison as the order threatened, if I don't give it, I think this is something we have
00:37:30.280
to stand firm on and we aired 25 minutes of the crime. And I think the cops were just twisting
00:37:37.640
the knife in and I'm going to fight them every bloody step of the way. I don't think they're
00:37:42.200
done today. We'll find out soon, but I don't think they're done with us. Yeah. I, I suspect that this
00:37:47.000
is only step one. Um, we'll see what kind of production order they get in the future, what
00:37:51.480
other steps they want to take against you guys. Um, certainly, uh, I don't know what's in their minds,
00:37:56.440
but it, I, it's unlikely that they're completely done with this. Other media companies in the
00:38:04.280
country have been raided by the police before vice has been the CBC has been, and all the journalists,
00:38:11.320
NGOs come to their aid, the Canadian associations of journalists, the Canadian journalists for free
00:38:16.520
expression, all these do-gooder groups swarm to help vice, swarm to help CBC. I wonder if any of
00:38:23.880
them will give a damn that it's rebel news being raided by police, even though the precedents we
00:38:28.600
are going to set in this case will redound to the benefit of every journalist in the country.
00:38:33.080
Yeah. Like I said, this is new law, really like new sections of the criminal code only
00:38:36.920
implemented a few years ago. There's very limited case on this. So absolutely going forward, all of
00:38:41.560
this is going to be presidential new case law, um, that helps every journalist.
00:38:46.920
I want to ask you a question that I asked you before, uh, for the first time. And I want to ask it
00:38:51.240
again because I feel like I'm fighting here, not just for rebel news, but I really do feel like
00:38:55.400
I'm fighting for any independent journalists who are left in this country. And I know that
00:38:59.800
CBC journalists are really government journalists. Like they literally are. And I, these days,
00:39:04.120
most newspaper journalists are paid by Trudeau. They literally are, but there are some independent
00:39:09.560
minded journalists left and we're one of them. And it falls to us to bear the burden of these legal
00:39:16.760
battles, which is not how it always was. I remember when I was young, all the media companies would get
00:39:21.000
together, pool their money and hire one lawyer to represent like 10 media companies. And they'd go
00:39:26.360
to court and say, your honor, we represent these 10 media companies and we're here for freedom of
00:39:30.840
speech. That doesn't happen anymore. It falls to rebel news to carry that burden. And I don't want to
00:39:37.720
put you on the spot, but I want to tell our viewers how much this fight for freedom has cost. I received your
00:39:43.320
first bill for $9,000. And that was before we even set foot in court today. If they file another
00:39:50.360
production order, if they keep going at us, this will be expensive. And I just want people to know
00:39:56.280
that we're fighting this because of our own principles, but we're fighting this to set a
00:39:59.960
precedent because if we don't, who will? And I don't want to live in a country where the cops can simply
00:40:04.760
send you an email and say, give us all your private information or go to prison. That is not the
00:40:10.360
Canadian way. And I'm not covering up for any criminal. We aired the footage of the crime
00:40:15.160
before the cops even got back to their office. What kind of a legal fee are we looking at to fight
00:40:22.280
this for freedom? Cause no one else is. So today, obviously, hopefully we'll be very short. So
00:40:29.960
very small incremental legal costs, but if they were going to bring another application,
00:40:33.240
if they're going to give us notice, if the court wants written submissions, this could get up to a
00:40:37.720
$20,000 legal bill because of the work that would be required to respond and to make
00:40:44.280
novel arguments that just haven't been before the court yet. So.
00:40:49.880
What do you think? I mean, I feel like I have to, I feel like I can't roll over. I feel like
00:40:55.240
anything you give away to the stage, you'll never get back. I mean, when I sued Stephen Gilbeau
00:41:01.160
for blocking us on Twitter, people said, Oh, that's small. What are you doing? That's ridiculous.
00:41:05.480
No, it's the principle that if you let them, if they, if you let them get away with this
00:41:09.800
and with that, then they'll just, it's like the camel's nose in the tent. Soon they'll be inside.
00:41:14.440
I feel like you have to fight these incursions all the time. Even if you lose, you have to fight
00:41:20.360
them because every once in a while you'll win. And I truly believe Sarah, that we are in a dark
00:41:26.120
age when it comes to media freedom. I feel like most journalists have been co-opted. The civil
00:41:31.400
liberties associations have been hitting the snooze button on their alarm clock for three years now.
00:41:36.680
And I, you know, I don't think it's just my quarrelsome nature. I think that this is crazy
00:41:42.120
to get an email from a cop, an email from a cop saying, hand us over all your files in 30 days or go
00:41:50.040
to jail. And that just pricks something in me. And I feel like I have to fight it. And
00:41:56.360
you know, no one has an extra 20 grand kicking around. And so I always go back to our viewers and
00:42:01.400
say, please help. And I'm sure they are tired of it. But I just think that if we don't fight this,
00:42:08.520
it'll be more and it'll be more and it'll be more in the next time.
00:42:11.800
Well, and today is a perfect example, right? Like they went and got this order. They didn't follow the
00:42:17.160
procedure that's set out in the code of criminal code. Why not set them in their place, right?
00:42:24.600
Not to say you're against the investigation or under undermining the investigation, but to say
00:42:30.360
there are rules in place that you have to follow. And if you don't, maybe the next time it's going to
00:42:36.200
be a bigger impact, right? And if they're not held to the standard of law, the rule of law that's set
00:42:41.960
out in our statutes, that's what this is about, right? It's just to follow the law that's set
00:42:47.000
out in our statutes. And if that means eventually that evidence is seized by journalists, at least
00:42:52.680
it is done through a rule of law and through the right legal tests.
00:42:57.800
Well, there you have it. Let me check my watch. It's now 933. Our hearing is in 27 minutes.
00:43:03.480
It sounds like at the last hour, the police said, okay, fine. We didn't do it right. But they're
00:43:09.720
obviously going to come back again. We have to fight them. I believe that this is my duty.
00:43:14.920
If I were simply guided by rational, commercial thoughts, I wouldn't fight any of these legal
00:43:21.320
cases. Very few media do because they're expensive. I mean, you know, there's a Jewish saying,
00:43:30.760
if not you, who? And if not now, when? I mean, if we don't fight this, then who will? And if we don't
00:43:41.000
fight it now, when do you fight it? I really feel we have an obligation. And if you agree with me,
00:43:46.600
please go to defendrebelnews.com. And I wish other media companies would help us. I wish these so-called
00:43:54.760
free speech groups, the Canadian Association of Journalists, Canadian Journalists for Free
00:43:59.080
Expression, Canadian Civil Liberties Association, Penn Canada, Amnesty International. That's a handful
00:44:04.760
of so-called civil liberties groups, all of whom are silent here. I wish they'd help because I could
00:44:09.800
use the help, but I can't count on their help. So I have to make my own help. And if you can help me,
00:44:14.840
please do. Thanks very much. I'll give you an update later on.
00:44:24.280
Hi, everybody. I just got out of court. Look at that big, tall court there. That's the
00:44:29.080
Court of King Spencer. Actually, all the courts are here. It's the Court Center in Calgary. Standing
00:44:34.280
next to me, of course, is Sarah Miller, lawyer for Arthur Pawlowski. And today, lawyer for me and
00:44:39.800
Rebel News. Now, Sarah, we were in court pushing back on a Calgary police production order that would
00:44:46.760
have compelled us to hand over all sorts of files on pain of imprisonment. But you did the background
00:44:54.280
legal work and you filed an affidavit. And the judge actually read the whole file. And she agreed
00:44:59.400
with us today to quash that improper court order by the Calgary police. Why don't you give us a minute
00:45:06.760
on what happened in court? Yeah. So as you saw, I was very quick in court today, very brief. The judge
00:45:13.640
had obviously read our application materials, read our affidavit material, and granted the order,
00:45:19.960
which we weren't 100% sure was going to happen today. There is a case law indicating where superior
00:45:24.200
courts have been hesitant, were refused, or delayed on quash of the order. So we had our consent order
00:45:30.360
signed. We presented it to the court. She said that she had done her homework and reviewed the
00:45:35.880
materials and was ready to grant the order. She said she thought it was the appropriate outcome.
00:45:39.800
Yeah. So that's good because we didn't know until just a few days ago that the police were going to
00:45:45.160
consent to this dismissal. And of course, because I mean, the judge's words, this isn't a run of the
00:45:50.680
mill case asking a superior court to quash a junior court. That doesn't happen very often. And judges
00:45:59.240
don't want to do unusual things without care. So I'm impressed that the judge did her homework,
00:46:04.680
read all the materials, and said that what you had proposed, a consent order,
00:46:09.960
was appropriate. I got one last question for you, though. Did the Calgary police agree to pay any
00:46:16.200
costs for this? Yes. So they agreed to pay costs per
00:46:19.400
since Schedule C. So we have a tariff in the rules of court that set out for certain applications,
00:46:24.760
what costs could be awarded. It's not written in stone per se, but they've agreed to pay those.
00:46:31.960
And approximately how much is that? I have the order here. It's going to be
00:46:38.760
$675. All right. So we spend about $9,000 preparing for today because the police don't
00:46:47.240
know what the hell they're doing. We spent $9,000 because a cop wanted to seize our materials,
00:46:53.560
but didn't do it right. And the Calgary police service will pay us $675. Thank you very little.
00:46:59.080
But we're going to fight back. I'm sure the cops are going to come back with a proper order this
00:47:03.880
time because they were humiliated today. They signed an order consenting to their
00:47:08.440
work being thrown out. The judge said she thought it was appropriate that their
00:47:12.040
work was thrown out. The judge ordered them to pay us $675. The Calgary police are embarrassed
00:47:17.560
by what we do anyways. I'm certain they're going to come back. If they come back,
00:47:21.400
will you be there to fight for us? Of course I will. Of course you will.
00:47:24.280
Every day. Right on. There you have it. I'll wrap up there. Look, it is my belief that the police
00:47:29.720
should not be able to seize journalist material just because they don't like the journalists.
00:47:34.520
And that's exactly what happened here. And the judge signed on the line that is dotted.
00:47:39.480
I believe the cops are going to come back. They're coming for Rebel News, but they got to get through me
00:47:44.280
and Sarah Miller first. If you want to help us out, go to defendrebelnews.com. It's nice
00:47:49.240
to have the cops be ordered to pay us $675. But that's just a fraction of what we've really paid
00:47:54.840
to defend freedom of the press. Thanks for your help.
00:48:08.520
Well, that's the show for today. Thanks very much for watching. And if you were able to,
00:48:13.160
thanks for chipping in. It's going to be a week of trials. And I want to catch up on Tamera Leach's
00:48:17.480
trial, perhaps the most important trial in the country, from Calgary International Airport
00:48:22.440
to you wherever you are. On behalf of all of us at Rebel News, good night, and keep fighting for freedom.