EZRA LEVANT ｜ Here's what protesters had to say at London's Pro-Hamas rally
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Summary
Tonight I'm in London for a massive pro-Hamas protest, and it's a story about the role of the Socialist Workers Party and its links with the pro-Palestinian movement in the UK, and how they have been a political force in this country for decades.
Transcript
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tonight I'm in London for a giant pro Hamas protest I'll tell you how it goes it's October
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30th and this is the Ezra Levant show shame on you you censorious bug
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Ezra Levant here for Rebel News I am in London England I'm standing next to the ancient River
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Thames over there Big Ben the houses of Parliament this is a an amazing city with
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an amazing river centuries of history look at this obelisk from Egypt let me read to
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you the inscription of course there's a couple of sphinxes at the base this obelisk prostrate
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for centuries on the sands of Alexandria was presented to the British nation AD 1819 204
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years ago by Mohammed Ali Viceroy of Egypt a worthy memorial of our distinguished countryman Nelson and
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Abercrombie so that obelisk was lying down in the sands of Egypt and it was sent here and it's been
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standing here a symbol of Empire and how broadly you'll be old saying the Sun never set on the
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British Empire from India to Canada to Arabia and of course even before that to America what's
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interesting is I don't think that the UK is an imperial power anymore rather it has been colonized
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by millions of people who have come here many for good reasons for the freedom for the economic
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opportunity because it's just such a beautiful place but others have come here to politically
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colonize it and I think that's what we saw today I don't know how many people were in the rally for Hamas to
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smash Israel I was inside the group so I saw probably thousands but it wouldn't surprise me if there
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were tens of thousands a week or two ago there was 100,000 according to police estimates I don't doubt it
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at all I want to show you how I approached this rally a lot of it was me being very careful because
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although there was a large police presence the police were at the periphery and so if I chose
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to go into the crowd there wasn't a cop in sight I had to be very gentle with my language even though I
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was diametrically opposed to many of the messages in the protest because if things turned rough I would
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have been absolutely helpless as would our cameraman so we started off by walking down to the protest we saw
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overhead a police helicopter that told us that they were on high alert for regular protest issues but
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remember Hamas is a terrorist group that's not a matter of opinion under UK law it is a terrorist group and
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there are thousands of jihadis on the streets of the UK being tracked allegedly by the police so there is a
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non-zero risk that a peaceful protest could actually have violent elements anyways when we walked in we
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were it was shoulder to shoulder and it was a very tight space I saw a friendly gentleman who wanted to
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talk to us right away and he was with the Socialist Workers Party so he's an indigenous Brit as we say and it
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was interesting to listen to him and I mean he was just giving boilerplate arguments about socialism and and
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it dawned on me that a lot of the administrative and financial and organizational backbone of the
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pro Hamas movement in the UK are the Socialist Workers Party hard left-wing trade unions that have been a
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political force in this country for decades here here's some exits of my conversation with the first
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fellow I met and I was very gentle because there wasn't a cop in sight and I was surrounded take a look
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at how that conversation went can you tell me a little bit about yourself and why you're here yeah
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my name is Rob I'm a member of the Socialist Party I'm also a trade unionist I'm here today because as
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you can see people are absolutely furious at really the genocide the the attack on Gaza and people are
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marching in solidarity and also in protest against this Tory government that is backing up the Israeli state
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government so people here are standing in solidarity with ordinary people in Gaza they can't believe the
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horrific you know attack that is murderous attack that is happening there right now so now I heard you
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say just a moment ago that I think you criticized the Labour Party as well that's what caught my ear
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yeah what's your view on the Labour Party because what what is scan is it's outrageous obviously that the
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British government is really backing up the Israeli government and you think the Labour Party is too
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but there's no opposition from the Labour leadership a few years ago when Jeremy Corbyn was leader you
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know Labour's policy that the policy that Starmer got elected on was to to do away with the illegal
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occupation of Gaza or campaign against that to recognize the Palestinian state Starmer won't even call for a
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ceasefire can I ask you some tough questions are you sure yes okay I want to ask you some tough
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questions what do you think about the attack on Israel that killed 1400 people well we don't support
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that we didn't support we don't support the attack by a mass of only we don't support that attack in
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reality that attacked it was counterproductive it the Netanyahu government has been there's been a
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mass movement over the last year which people probably don't realize around the world there's
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been a mass movement of strikes of protest against the Netanyahu's government because it's a big business
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government can I ask you some more question right the attack by a mass is counterproductive is what it did
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was it showed up support behind Netanyahu temporarily I believe so that's a that's looking at things from
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a utilitarian point of view but how about from a moral point of view are you morally against the Hamas
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attack on southern Israel no we don't agree with the attack for moral reasons also we don't agree we don't
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agree look from the perspective of how does ordinary people have a solution in the Middle East which we
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think should be a socialist solution where national rights of Palestinians and only Israelis Israelis are
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protected and respected but the point is is attacks like that cannot win that cannot win that because
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what they do is is that unfortunately they shore up support behind what is a right-wing government in Israel
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I got two more questions and I'll let you go thanks very much for giving me your time by the way
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um some I hear a chant from the river to the sea and in my mind that means that from the Jordan River
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to the Mediterranean that'll be a Palestinian country uh is there room for an Israeli country also or must
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Israel completely go which is what I'm hearing I think the vast majority of people are when they say
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that I see in that the Palestinians at the moment don't have any real rights you know would you support a
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Jewish country there what I what what we say is the socialist party is there needs to be a socialist
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solution in Israel Palestine in the Middle East for the Palestinian masses and ordinary Israelis not the
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net and I use of this world not the Israeli government in the Israeli state and our means for us the first
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issue is it needs a socialist solution like we need in Britain that can provide for ordinary people across
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the divide and if that means that you have to have two socialist states that can work voluntary work
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out that relationship then that would be a you know a step in the right direction last question for you
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uh there there have been some anti-semitic incidents and some anti-semitic language are you worried about
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anti-semitism in the UK look I I socialist party thing like the vast majority of people are opposed to
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Islamophobia as opposed to anti-semitism are opposed to all racism uh that exists and of course we are
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totally opposed to that like we are opposed to Islamophobia and all sorts of all sorts of racism uh and all
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attacks on equality would you ever go to a vigil with Jews or Israelis uh to to show moral support
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for them after the losses of three weeks ago well look we are totally opposed to the attack by a mass
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on the uh you know in that took place in Israel on October the seventh of course some will say but
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but let's we all must recognize this this crisis didn't start on October the seventh right we have our
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decades and decades of oppression of illegal occupation um by the Israeli state backed up by the western
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capitalist uh governments but I tell you what we did do is when you add protests in London and around the
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world in support in solidarity by Israelis in London with the protests against Netanyahu we were on those
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protests so we are here today in solidarity with the Palestinians and those supporting the Palestinians but
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when you had a mass movement against the right-wing Netanyahu government and Israelis in this country
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were on protesting in solidarity we were on those marches because we believe if there can be unity
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between the Palestinian masses of working people in Israel that can remove the capitalist government in
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Israel and have a socialist future how that is worked out depends on uh working people across those
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in those communities that is a solution for ordinary people as I walked around the protest grounds I saw
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a lot of kiosks or tents for similar organizations anti-British anti-American socialist workers I even saw a
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communist revolution poster so there is a British element to this most of the crowd I would say 75% look to be
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islamic or or uh racialized as they would say but I'd say about a quarter of folks here were either woke
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white young people who've probably been through some grievance studies degree or I think it's probably
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accurate to say just a lot of um superannuated leftists who were for the disarmament movement in the 80s
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and for the environmental movement in the 90s and now they're on the free free Palestine movement
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in the 2020s it's the issue isn't the issue the revolution is the issue and that's how I put that
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socialist workers guy um I noticed a few other things on the streets for example I noticed uh a
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postering campaign you might know that for the last few weeks uh around the world um supporters of
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Israel and I think people who are just appalled by terrorism have put up posters for the missing
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kidnapped children who were taken as hostages by Hamas in their terror raid on Israel October 7th
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these have gone up in cities around the world and there's been videotape of people tearing down
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those posters which is a shocking thing when you think about it well this March they've had their own
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version of those posters with children that they say Israel has killed so they are certainly meeting
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the propaganda gap there was a lot of propaganda and we filmed as many signs and chants as we could
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here listen to some of the chants and see some of the signs they're talking about an intifada revolution
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to to make the river to the sea Jew free here take a look at some of the things we saw
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Palestine will be free Palestine Israel is a terrorist state
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Palestine Palestine will be free Palestine will be free Palestine will be free
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Well it was good to talk to an old socialist worker, but I wanted to talk to people who had a little bit more skin in the game, people from the Muslim community.
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And again, there was not a cop in sight. We took our microphone flag off just so if anyone knew Rebel News they might not be turned off by it.
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I mean, we came across this bizarre sight which you see in a few cities in the world, ultra-Orthodox Jews wearing their fur hats who are against the state of Israel.
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It's really weird. You would think that they of all people would want the state of Israel, but they have an obscure sect that believes that there should be no state of Israel until the Messiah comes.
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And so any attempt to rebuild Israel before that is a kind of blasphemy because Jews should wander in exile.
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Jews should be driven out until God says, you're done.
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It would be like if Moses wanted to take a shortcut to the Promised Land instead of wandering for 40 years.
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These extremist Jews want to take, don't think a 2,000 year wandering is enough.
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So we saw some of those, it's a very strange thing to see, and I saw a Muslim man who I think was from Pakistan originally, praising them, and I said, hey, let's talk to this fella.
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Here's a little bit about how that conversation went.
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I'm going to truncate it a bit because he was quite voluble, and I don't want to bore you with the whole thing.
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But at the end, when I asked him if Hamas was a terrorist group, he said, oh, don't make me condemn it.
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I said, I'm not asking you to condemn it, just would you acknowledge that they're terrorists?
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It took me about five minutes to get to the essential question.
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Canada, I wonder if you can tell us what's going on and why you're here.
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Well, basically, we're here to support the Palestinian and the Israeli war that's currently going on, and we realize both sides, there's been a loss of life.
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Other people, the officials know the actual numbers much better than we do, but really what everybody's here now for is that we need a ceasefire.
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Oh, these are, well, I mean, I don't know them personally or whatever.
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These are Orthodox Jews who themselves are going around with the banners and going around with the letters that they sent when Israel was created.
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As far as our religion is concerned, we cannot even take over a land that's not occupied.
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And they go, never mind the land that was previously already occupied.
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So what they're saying is like a lot of us are saying, that basically their religion has been hijacked by people who have a different agenda.
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I mean, I haven't spoken to them in detail, but like yourself, you can easily see this all over, you know?
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Can I ask you one last question, then I'll let you go.
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There has been, there have been anti-Semitic incidents and a lot of Jews in the United Kingdom say they feel afraid of violence and, you know, the threats of violent revolution and intifada.
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I'm talking about, you know, there's a few hundred thousand Jews in the UK and their board of deputies and other Jewish leaders are reporting anti-Semitic incidents.
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I've seen videos of some of some anti-Semitic incidents.
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Well, I'm worried about anti-Semitism, just like Islamophobia.
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And I think some of this is being taken a little bit out of proportion because you've got to have some key points, you know, like these 40 beheaded babies or whatever.
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I don't know if you remember, but Iraq war, you could not use as a media, you could not use any other terminology.
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One group, one person's terrorist is another person's resistance.
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Well, see, if I hadn't seen enough interviews, I would condemn it.
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Would you condemn what Israel is doing right now?
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I'm interviewing you as a British Muslim, so I'm not even from Britain.
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I just want to know if you think that Hamas is a terrorist group.
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No, I would easily say I've got no issues with that, yeah?
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No, I'm not, I'm just, I'm actually not even asking you to condemn them.
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I'm just wondering if you think they're a terrorist group.
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Yeah, but do you think Nelson Mandela was a terrorist?
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Before he became the world leader and before we all bowed down to him...
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No, I think from what I hear and see that they're more like sort of a resistant group.
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I started off by saying cannot kill, you know, because they're claiming to be Muslim.
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So why won't you just call them terrorists then?
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If you acknowledge they did horrific things, why don't you say they're a terrorist group?
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Okay, they did horrific things, but their horrific in numbers is 1,500.
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This horrific, which I just asked you to say, and then you backed off and you said...
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Okay, you give us 1,500 terrorists, 7,000 and blackout and all the killings.
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I mean, we've got no qualms, but I'm just saying, we're just trying to pick up bits and
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snippets of information and stuff that we get here.
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Last question, last question, then I'll let you go.
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Because you've got so many interesting things to say.
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So some people here say from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free, which implies
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from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea.
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You obviously believe that there should be a Palestinian state.
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Do you think there should also be a Jewish state in the Holy Land?
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Well, I think that these two groups of people have lived together before.
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That there is a bigger agenda, which, as I said, what these guys have been screaming
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and shouting about, that Judaism is not Zionism.
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You know, if there was a Palestinian state, should there also be a Jewish state in the
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Who allowed them or who accepted them or who opened their arms up to them, you know, 1948
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It was whoever was there beforehand, which you can see on maps, which you can see on
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the coins everywhere, that there was a state called Palestine, yeah?
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And the two of them lived happily for some time.
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And then, obviously, this nationalism and other stuff got in the way.
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And I don't know who's sincere or who's not, but the people who are supposed to be sincere
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and neutral, they're turning out to be not so sincere, not so neutral, because if they
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can't at you and at least put their hand up and say, at least let's stop this, you know,
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If they can't do that, what else are they going to do?
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Well, by this point in time, most of the march had gone down the street.
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They went across, you know, there's a lot of bridges in London.
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They went across the bridge and they came marching back another.
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So, by this time, the protests had really died down and some normal tourist life had
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But I saw someone who was eyeing us and he obviously wanted to talk.
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He said his name was Ahmed and he had a cameraman, too, who asked if he could film it at the same
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So, our conversation was, we weren't really on the same wavelength.
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And I tried to ask him what his vision was if he got his way.
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How would, if he could wave the magic wand and have an outcome that he wanted, what would
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I'll show you a little bit of how that conversation went.
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So, it looks like you're collecting donations and you're doing some journalism.
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We've got lots and lots of views on lots and lots of people showing considerable interest
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This face is tyrannical, what the Israelis are doing.
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No matter what their opponents have done, their excess force has been so astronomical that
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That's why they're coming out in their hundreds of thousands.
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Last week's estimate, there was 350,000 people at this protest.
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The question is, will our governments continue in this path of unequivocal support for Israel
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when their bombardment is so relentless, even to the extent that they have now rejected the
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statements of the UN Secretary General, Antonio Guterres, and they've outrightly rejected his statements.
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That this is like a catastrophe bordering on the extinction of a particular race.
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Let me ask you about the solutions, because I've heard different chants here.
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I've seen different posters, and I'm trying to understand what the desired outcome is.
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So maybe you can tell me, what is the hope for resolution from your point of view?
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Okay, on the ground, immediate cessation of hostilities from all parties concerned.
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And by that proxy, an immediate and unequivocal guarantee that a solution is incumbent.
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Meaning, we're not going to have talks about talks, like in the famous 1993 Oslo Accords,
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And the first thing they mentioned is, let's have talks about talks in reference to the Palestinian issue.
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That will be the first prerequisite, as according to the UN Resolution 242 and 338,
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where they have to disperse from the West Bank and Gaza,
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which they have not done and flagrantly rejected international law,
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which we are supposed to be great proponents of.
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So, back to the 1967 borders means the West Bank and the Gaza.
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But one of the chants I've heard is from the river to the sea.
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So, that's the Jordan River, I imagine, and the Mediterranean Sea,
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which would cover Tel Aviv, which would cover pre-1967 Israel.
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Do you believe there should be a state of Israel in the Holy Land?
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Well, Israel, this is a common fallacy of history,
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that the land of Israel belongs to the Israelites.
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Well, I'm just going to give you an elongated answer.
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Because the general understanding amongst the Jews
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is that the Israelites were the natural inhabitants of the land of Palestine.
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The Canaanites and the Philistines were there before them as well.
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When Moses parted them from the sea and they went forth,
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it was not that that was their particular land.
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The land could have been chosen from there all the way to the river Euphrates.
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But it was not that that was their particular land.
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I mean, the 1967 borders would have to be the initial prerequisite,
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And obviously, there are millions of people over there,
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so they can't be displaced, even though they're Israelis.
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So, at the same time, there has to be some sort of accommodation for them,
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unless there is mass repatriation back to different parts of the world,
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which they came from, which is going to be unlikely.
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So, it's not like we're going to be looking at augmenting another human catastrophe
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in the shape of the Jewish people who are already there.
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But, however, that would be the prerequisite, the 1967 borders.
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So, Israel must withdraw from the occupied territory.
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Well, anyone who is of a particular understanding, that would be a central call.
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So, any political party which evaluates that and understands that.
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Supposedly, we have democratically elected governments.
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From my understanding, Hamas was democratically elected.
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Are you from Britain originally, or did you come here from...
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And, do you mind me asking where you grew up and...
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I mean, the fact that Britain, unfortunately, not the Englishman, not the average Joe public,
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How they, in France, secretly tried to divide Palestine amongst themselves,
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having promised the Arabs the autonomous state that they would be getting.
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They played games galore, which they are, unfortunately, doing now.
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Do you accept that the British and the Americans are playing games?
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Do you accept, historically speaking, the Balfour Declaration,
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the British government at that time were playing games in trying to divide and rule,
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where they were promising the Arabs that they would have their country backed
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if they supported them during the First World War.
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And they were, between France and Britain, they were going to divide Palestine for themselves.
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But on the blind side, the relevant Israeli groups, they got together and decided otherwise
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Well, I think my friend Ahmed was getting a little bit bored of my questions,
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And he put a question to me that was so, so many clauses and caveats and preambles,
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it was sort of an impossible question to answer.
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And they got a little stroppy because I just didn't want to be interviewed then.
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I'd like to ask you, I've asked several of your questions.
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What I'd like to ask you, do you condemn the Israeli government's barbaric bombardment
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of the innocent people of Palestine in which the indigenous masses of this country
00:29:03.180
Wherever you go, it seems the Western media are so frivolous to criticize Israel in any capacity.
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It's like an endemic fear that they could lose their job
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If you don't want to answer any more, that's okay.
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So again, that's fair that I asked you a basic...
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We're asking you reasonable, responsive questions.
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It seems that you're not going to accept this 1917 Balfour Declaration.
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You're not going to accept what the Western governments got up to.
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The British have already accepted this was their policy during the subcontinent era as well.
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All these events that are occurring in the world, in Kashmir, in Palestine, wherever you go,
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have been the result of the foreign policies of the Western governments,
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You're saying about 20 things and asking me if I accept it.
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Well, you just mentioned the crisis in Kashmir, and I wonder if you were here for the rally.
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What happens is when the Muslim audience or people in general will observe our conversation,
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and I've answered your questions, and you've not answered a singular one.
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You are deliberately not looking to answer the questions because you're fearful of potential repercussions.
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If the question is, do you support killing children, obviously the answer is no.
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And that's one of the reasons why the attack on southern Israel on October 7th was so barbaric.
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But I also know that in every war since the beginning of time, there are civilian casualties,
00:30:57.900
including, unfortunately, from time to time, children.
00:31:02.060
Now, the laws of war say that you must minimize damage to civilians.
00:31:11.020
But that question doesn't really fit to the freighted preamble.
00:31:15.040
And I just didn't want him to subject my answer to his creative editing because I could feel he and especially his cameraman were getting a bit agitated.
00:31:24.380
But if you want to know my view, I think that no child should be killed ever, either on purpose or by accident.
00:31:30.840
I think Hamas is the terrorist group that deliberately targets Israeli civilians and that deliberately hides behind Palestinian civilians.
00:31:37.880
I think Israel is the country that does its best to stop terror attacks against its civilians, including with the Iron Dome anti-rocket system,
00:31:47.400
and that actually warns civilian areas in advance an attack is coming by dropping leaflets, by announcing in advance where an attack will be made.
00:31:57.400
In recent days, we saw that the major hospital in Gaza, the Al-Shifa hospital, underneath it is the command bunker for the terrorists.
00:32:09.680
They literally put their command bunker under a hospital, knowing that Israel would be reluctant to strike it.
00:32:17.540
Of course, I'm against children being killed, and I'm especially against children being killed on purpose.
00:32:22.760
But I also know that in wars, sometimes civilians are collateral damage, and that is a tragedy.
00:32:31.440
But simply invoking a ceasefire, which existed on October 7th, it would be like on the day after Pearl Harbor, December 7th, 1941,
00:32:44.300
Or if the day after 9-11 on 9-12, if Osama bin Laden had said, hey, guys, ceasefire.
00:32:52.980
But I didn't want to have his deceptive editing.
00:32:59.160
But as you can see, things were starting to get a little bit agitated there.
00:33:05.880
And he was getting a little bit angry, and his cameraman was getting a little bit insulting.
00:33:10.460
And then it was like a switch was flipped because a number of people were watching.
00:33:19.460
But I just want to point out the helicopter above there, it looks like, oh, and I just heard something that sounded like a firecracker.
00:33:31.120
I'm thinking that that's where the protest, we saw it march across that bridge.
00:33:36.620
In fact, you can still see some of it on the bridge between the Sphinx and the obelisk.
00:33:41.580
So I imagine that helicopter overhead is where the protest is now.
00:33:48.320
I just wanted to explain it and react to the noise.
00:33:53.460
So I was talking with Ahmed, and it was degenerating, and his cameraman was insulting me.
00:34:01.180
And people were watching from a distance, and it was like a switch was flipped.
00:34:07.340
And they suddenly started screaming at me, get out, get out.
00:34:13.220
It was like they pressed play on a message track, and they went into hysterical mode.
00:34:24.180
And I want to let you know that none of the people you're about to see, I didn't talk to any of them other than Ahmed.
00:34:41.440
If it was only about the kids, stop kids being bombed, it would never happen.
00:34:48.020
But because they're Palestinian, because they're Muslim, they don't care.
00:35:00.260
As the conversation was made initially, may I ask you?
00:35:10.020
Why are you bothering people fighting for people that are getting killed?
00:35:18.540
So why are you bothering us while we're crying?
00:35:23.800
And you're bothering us while we're mourning children.
00:35:26.500
Stop bothering us while we're mourning the kids of Gaza.
00:36:01.580
What are your views on the Israeli bombardment of Gaza?
00:36:06.620
Well, I'm here to understand what the protest is about.
00:36:15.380
If you don't know what it's for, see yourself out.
00:36:19.000
We have hurt our, our, we are crying inside the house.
00:36:37.940
The IDF stopped us with our ambulances to get to the child.
00:36:42.660
It was atrocious before this, and now it's even more worse.
00:36:45.980
I'm banned from Israel because they, they, they, they took my details and said, no, you're
00:36:55.660
Do you condemn the killing of children in Gaza?
00:37:03.280
Do you, do you condemn the killing of the children in Gaza, Mr. Reporter?
00:37:07.740
I'm, I'm here to ask questions about the protest, and you've already attacked me and insulted
00:37:26.240
I'm glad that there were some police, actually most of the police had gone by then, but it
00:37:33.340
I spoke to a number of people who were putting their best face forward.
00:37:36.660
They didn't know who Rebel News was, and they just wanted to look good to the cameras.
00:37:40.520
It took me a while to get that one guy, Khaled, if I'm getting his name right, to say, no,
00:37:51.680
I think what I learned from that is that the pro-Hamas community in London, some of them
00:38:02.020
can control themselves and know that if they show exactly what they believe, they'll freak
00:38:10.280
If they show what they mean by from the river to the sea, that that means the extermination
00:38:17.260
If they show what they mean by intifada revolution, intifada, basically the Arabic word for pogrom,
00:38:23.140
which meant the Russian-style anti-Semitic riot.
00:38:26.620
If they show these things to the media, people will recoil because there are still enough Brits
00:38:32.300
of goodwill and good faith who don't like what they see on the streets.
00:38:35.980
It was interesting to me that that mask fell in a heartbeat and the rage and the dramatic
00:38:47.220
And I'm just glad that happened when things had dispersed rather than when it was cheek
00:39:02.600
We see it starting to grow in Canada, too, where there have been some protests of a thousand
00:39:11.620
But it is a fact that 100,000 people marched here a week ago and surely tens of thousands
00:39:23.040
Even if only a fraction of the Muslim population is extreme, and even if only a fraction of
00:39:30.060
that does anything about it, the sheer numbers of mass immigration without any cultural vetting,
00:39:37.420
without any denazification, so to speak, I think this country has a problem.
00:40:01.280
I'm here in London, where I was attending one of the large pro-Hamas rallies.
00:40:05.660
We've been covering the war between Hamas and Israel very carefully.
00:40:08.900
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