EZRA LEVANT ｜ Irish voices rising： A feature interview with Ben Scallan from GRIPT
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Summary
A few weeks ago, Ezra went to Ireland for the first time in his life, and it was incredible to see. But there was one thing that struck him as an outsider looking with fresh eyes at Ireland: the reminder that the Irish are the indigenous people in Ireland, and that the accusation of colonialism and imperialism is a weapon used against the country to bash down institutions.
Transcript
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Oh, we've got such a good show for you today. One of my favorite guys, Ben Scallon from
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Gript. That's the Irish independent news source. There's so many interesting things going on
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there. You don't have to be Irish to be fascinated by it because so much of it is going on here
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in Canada too. I want you to see the video version of this though. So please download
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what we call Rebel News Plus. It's eight bucks a month. You get the video version of
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it. And more importantly, frankly, you help keep Rebel News alive because we don't take
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any money from Trudeau and it shows. Just go to rebelnewsplus.com.
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Tonight, a feature interview with Ben Scallon from Gript. That's the Irish independent news
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outlet. Boy, have we got news for you. It's May 30th and this is the Ezra LeVant Show.
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Well, viewers will know a few weeks ago, I went to Ireland for the first time in my
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life. Our friends at Gript had told me that there was a large protest, a march to challenge
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mass open borders immigration. And I went there and it was incredible to see. So many things
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reminded me of the challenges back here at home in Canada. But there was one thing that struck me as
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an outsider looking with fresh eyes at Ireland, the reminder that the Irish are the indigenous people
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in Ireland. So whereas other countries, the accusation of colonialism and imperialism and
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decolonization, that's a weapon to be used against the country to bash down institutions.
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Ireland didn't invade anybody. Ireland didn't enslave anybody. In fact, you may know that Ireland
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itself was raided by slave catchers. In fact, the entire town of Baltimore, Ireland, the entire village,
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every single man, woman and child was kidnapped and taken to Arabia as slaves. And so I saw placards
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saying things like Ireland for the Irish and Irish lives matter. And if I were to see those in Canada,
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the United States, I know people would say, that's racist. Stop appropriating our language. But
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what do you do? And what do you tell people in a country that has never picked on others, that does
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not have the stain of slavery on them? Because these woke ideologies are being grafted onto Ireland
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in a way that just doesn't fit. I thought it was fascinating. And as you know, I'm very interested in
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Ireland, even though I have no personal or familial connection whatsoever. I just find it such a
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fascinating place. And it was delightful, as you know, to connect with Fatima Gunning,
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one of the reporters at Gript, gript.ie, that's the Irish domain, is my favorite broadcaster from
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there. They do broadcast video, they do written stories, and they're completely independent. And
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what a pleasure to meet in person one of their stars. And so I'm delighted today to bring back to
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the show, the senior political correspondent for Gript, a man who actually gets to put tough
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questions to their cabinet. He's part of the accredited press gallery, which is astonishing
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to us here in Canada. One of the best journalists in Ireland, Ben Scallon, who joined us now. Ben,
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Great to be back, Ezra. Thank you so much for having me.
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Oh, it's a pleasure. And I tell you, we spent a little bit of time with Fatima at the march,
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and people love Gript. I know the establishment doesn't like you much because you shine a light
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of scrutiny on them. But watching the public come up to your reporter, Fatima Gunning, it reminded me
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of how people come up to Rebel News reporters here in Canada, because you're telling the other side of
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the story. And it was a wonderful day, and I hope to get back to Ireland. I want to talk about a few
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things. One of them is your exclusive story. You tweeted a few teasers. You went to an anti-racist,
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you learned about, you got leaked to you, details of an anti-racism summit at Cork City Hall featuring
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government and opposition parties. So they're all in it together. And also from the Garda,
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which is your police force there. I'll just quote one line, and then I'll let you tell the rest of
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the story. One Sinn Féin member of parliament said Ireland should be, quote, very ashamed as a country
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because of its failure to house, quote, darker skinned asylum seekers. It was even crazier things
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about a Tupac chant, which I never thought the Irish were big into Tupac, the late rapper.
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Take it away, Ben. Tell me about this meeting and give me the crazy details, but then come back and
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tell me what it means. Because I think this goes to what I was saying about they're trying to graft
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onto Ireland, a dark history that just is not Ireland's history. Take it away.
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Yeah. So you've given a great kind of setting up of this fascinating story that I'm not going to say
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how I got my hands on the information that's in the article. I'd really encourage everybody to go
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and check it out because it's funny. It's crazy. It's jaw-dropping. And effectively, what it is,
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is there was a meeting in Cork City Hall. Cork is one of the biggest cities in Ireland. And as you've
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said, there were politicians there. There were academics from universities there. There was TUSLA,
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which is kind of like Child Protective Services. They were there as an organization.
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There were all these powerful state institutions. And it was a meeting supposedly about anti-racism.
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It was organized by one of our NGOs. And as I've said on your show in the past, Ireland is effectively
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an NGO-ocracy. We are run by the non-governmental sector. And I've said this before on the show,
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so I don't want to bore viewers who might be regular listeners. But just in a nutshell, to sum it up,
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we have about 33,000 different NGO organizations for a population of about 5 million people. So that
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should give you some sort of sense of scale as to the behemoth that we're dealing with.
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That's madness. I don't know if you've shared that detail, that specific fact. That would be like in
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Canada. I'm just going to multiply by eight because I think our population is eight times as much.
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That would be like a quarter million more than that. That would be NGOs. And they're all
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really like the Borg. They're all aiming in the same direction, aren't they? Sorry,
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I didn't mean to interrupt. I'm just astonished by that statistic. Keep going. I didn't mean to
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interrupt. No, no, no. You're right. Because this is kind of an important bit of preamble,
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I think, to get people's minds around. I'm not going to say, by the way, that every single one of
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those NGOs is bad. I mean, I haven't had time to look into 33,000 organizations. I know some of
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them no doubt do good work with homeless people, for example. There's all of that in there. It's
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in that kind of milieu. But when you're dealing with that many organizations, many of them are
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openly involved in campaigning. The government has admitted that they only fund NGOs that are
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kind of in line with the program for government, shall we say. And so many of them are very openly
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ideological and partisan. And they receive, the sector as a whole, receives about 6 billion euros
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annually. And for, again, a sense of scale there, Ireland's entire annual budget as a state is only
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about 100 billion. So we spend more on this sector than we do on our entire justice system. That's
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everything from the police to the courts to whatever else that entails. So anyway, the only
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reason I'm saying all of that before we get into the actual story itself is to show you the level
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of power that these NGOs have. So this is not just a load of freaks in a room somewhere talking about
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crazy stuff who you can point and laugh at. A lot of it is funny, but these are people with an enormous
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amount of sway and state resources at their disposal. And so the meeting, while it was ostensibly about
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anti-racism, it was effectively a massive grievance parade where it was all about how Ireland should
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be ashamed of itself because of its past. They were talking about, there was an individual called
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Georgian Kensho, who was shot by the police in 2020 in Ireland. This guy, and all the facts I'm about to
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say are not disputed by anybody. He was a black African guy. He had hospitalized the shop employee
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and left him with face injuries. He went on a rampage with a knife. The police then cornered him,
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the armed response unit, basically the Irish version of SWAT. They cornered him. They told him to put the
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knife down that he had. He refused. They pepper sprayed him. They tased him. And he still ended
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up lunging at these armed officers. So at that point, left with no other choice, they shot him.
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They were trying to turn this into an incidence of racism. They said that in Ireland, when you shoot
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a black man like Georgian Kensho, that's like an achievement. And that's the reason why those officers
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weren't prosecuted or held accountable under law. And so it just continued in this fashion with all
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of these various groups describing what a horrendous racist hellhole Ireland is based on no evidence
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really, and effectively slandering the country at large. That's so crazy. And that story you tell
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there. And I just can see what they're doing because they do it in Canada to a lesser extent. Canada,
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I don't know if you know this, Ben, but a lot of the slaves from the United States came on what they
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called the Underground Railway. They sort of escaped to Canada because we were part of the
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British Empire at the time and where slavery had been banned. So it was like a refuge. We never really
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had a big black population in Canada until very recently. But the attempt to bring Black Lives Matter
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and the George Floyd narrative to Canada, they're pushing because it worked in America. They're trying to
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force it into Canada. But we really never had slavery here. It was banned before Canada was a country.
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It feels like they're trying to force the George Floyd narrative on that one story, which is not the
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Irish story. They're so excited about playing the same script in Ireland that they've used effectively
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in the United States. I think that's what's going on. Well, there was a very interesting tidbit during
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the whole meeting. And that was when they had one woman who was from the UK, and she ran a kind of an
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anti-racist organization over there, sort of an NGO. And she was one of the invited speakers that they
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had brought in to talk to the crowd about various issues. And one of the things she touched on was NGO
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funding. And she said that after the killing of George Floyd in America, or the death of George
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Floyd in America, of course, there was a fentanyl. And you know, we can get into whether that story is
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as people typically portray it. But that's a whole other issue. And the point being that after that
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event, there was a huge surge in funding for kind of anti-racist causes and anti-racist NGOs.
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And she said that now that's massively tapered off, because that was several years ago. Now, the
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conversation has kind of moved on. And so now you have to work much harder in order to keep the funding
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flowing. And so she said that it's important then that we keep racism and anti-racism on the agenda in
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order to keep and this was the word she used in order to keep tendrils going out into society. So this my jaw hit
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the floor when I heard that this is really astonishing that what I've been saying for
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several years now at this stage, particularly in the context of, for example, Ireland's hate speech
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bill, is that there are groups who directly benefit from the perception that a country like Ireland or
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like Canada or wherever is a horrible racist country. Because the analogy I always make is,
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if you don't have leaky pipes, then you don't need a plumber. And if you don't have a racist society,
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then you don't need professional anti-racist campaigners. And so it is directly beneficial
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to an organization that is designed to fight these bogeymen to say, oh, Ireland is horrifically
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racist. There's a rise in hate crime. People are being attacked because of the color of their skin,
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blah, blah, blah. And so I thought that was a stunning admission on the part of this one particular
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speaker. That's incredible. We see that everywhere with hoaxes because the demand for racism exceeds
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I have no doubt that America 100 years ago or even not even that long ago had some dark remnants of a racist
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past. And by the way, I'm not American. I'm here not to defend America. But there are so like the
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Jussie Smollett hoax. There are so many hoaxes because like you say, people need the grist for the
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mill. I don't think America in 2024 is an inherently racist society. Don't tell me the place that elected
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Barack Obama twice is racist. I won't believe it. Don't tell me that Canada, where we had two
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black governors general. Or maybe I'm getting my, I mean, and we have an Inuit governor general now.
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I'm getting my races mixed up maybe. But don't tell me we're racist. It's not true. And actually,
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one of the problems I think, Ben, is that you're almost teaching newcomers to be ungrateful and
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grievance oriented. Instead of teaching newcomers, you've made it to paradise. You've made it to the
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best place in the world. You've made it away from danger towards freedom. Now go and make the best.
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I mean, the old version of the quote, American dream. It's not just quote, white people who are
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being shamed without reason. It's immigrants who are being told, be angry, be mad, focus on your
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differences. And you have reason to be upset. Like it's almost harming newcomers as much as anything
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else. Don't you think, Ben? I think so. I think it creates unnecessary tension in society that was never
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there and doesn't need to be there. One of the things I've been thinking about recently in the
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context of Ireland's immigration debate and the fact that we have been an incredibly homogenous
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country for basically the entire existence of this nation. And then suddenly we have this very
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recent influx of people from all different cultures and parts of the world. I mean, my own mother is one
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of those. So I can hardly complain. I wouldn't be here if I wasn't for immigration and my mother
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hadn't come here from Jamaica when she did to marry my father, who's Irish. So I am part of that whole
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process. And Irish people have been incredibly welcoming and tolerant. And that's, I think,
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one of the best things about Irish people is that we are a very kind-hearted people. We're very warm-hearted
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people. We have no axe to grind with anybody. But one of the things that we've been doing as a society
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in the last few years and the policy that's been pursued is to give certain privileges to people
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who have just arrived in the country that we don't afford to citizens. So, for example, if you receive
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a medical card, this is a kind of a medical benefit that we give out to some people. That is a thing that
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many people struggle to get here. If you turn on Irish radio at any point during the week, you'll hear
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every single day people complaining about how, you know, they can't get a medical card and they
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seriously need it because they're just under a certain threshold or over a certain threshold or
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this bureaucracy causes them to be just slightly ineligible and so they can't get it even though
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their child has a debilitating medical problem or whatever it might be. You hear about these stories
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all the time and yet anybody who comes to Ireland and claims asylum automatically receives a medical
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card and that was told to us by the Minister for Health just last year. And so, while of course you
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would never begrudge somebody who needed medical assistance, particularly somebody who maybe is
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fleeing a war-torn country, let's say, of course you want to help those people. I think to simplify it and
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to make an analogy that people can easily digest, it would almost be like if you have children and
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you're a parent and then you were to do the wonderful and humane thing of adopting a new child,
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which we all agree is a wonderful thing to do, and then you proceed to shower that child in all kinds of
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special privileges and benefits that none of your other children receive, it is an unfortunate but
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inevitable consequence of such an approach that you're going to create resentment within that
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household, you're going to create conflict and strife and division within that household, and that's
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something that I think we run the risk of by pursuing things in such an obviously unfair way that people
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have an inherent sense of justice that's offended by that, where you think, I'm a citizen of this country,
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I pay taxes my whole life, I was born here, I was raised here, my parents and my grandparents are
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from here, and yet I feel like I am less favoured than somebody who showed up five minutes ago,
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this isn't fair, I mean, and it's not fair, and so I want to continue living in a country where people
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are open to strangers and are hospitable, I mean, the Irish unofficial slogan, if we had a slogan as a
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nation, it would be, which in Irish means 100,000 welcomes, that's kind of our natural inclination as
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a people, I feel like we're at risk of diminishing that and like people's welcome and their sense of
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welcome is quickly evaporating the more we perceive the way we are. One of the things I've noticed,
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and I follow your account on Twitter and your colleagues, and I follow the main
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Gript account, and again, that's spelled G-R-I-P-T dot I-E, which is sort of an old-fashioned way of
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saying grip, you know, to grip something, I didn't know what that word meant, do you learn something
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new every day? One of the things I learned from following Gript is the way in which asylum seekers
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are housed has got to be the worst community relations I've ever seen in my life. It's almost like
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it's a ta-da, surprise, hello town of 500 citizens who have been cohesive and coherent for centuries.
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We've got news for you, we're bringing in 200 migrants, and we're putting them in the local
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hotel, and we're telling you this after the fact, it's been decided, and we're having police there,
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and don't you, and we'll, and don't, like, it's just so, unless I'm reading it wrong, the way that
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communities are sort of secretly selected, because it doesn't seem like there's a kind of consultation
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process that you would normally expect, like you build a, you build an overpass, you build a school,
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you build a parking lot, you have consultations, how's it going to affect traffic, how's it going
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to affect crime, I mean, how's it going to affect schooling, there's a hundred things you ask.
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When we were in Dublin a few weeks ago, there was a huge warehouse that they were proposing to put in
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modular homes inside this warehouse in an already poor part of town where people are already concerned
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about lack of social services, and it's right across the street from a bunch of kids stuff, kids movie
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theater, kids play places, and people are saying, this is insane, it's not even zoned for that, and I just
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think of all the other kind of community relations, if, you know, they're digging up the street in my
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neighborhood, Ben, and the city comes, like, months in advance, here's our plan, do you have any
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feedback, here's a phone number, we're going to take this tree out, don't worry, like, like, there's so
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much consultation, enough already, whereas it sounds like there's almost no consultation, and towns that
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are, it's a shock treatment, like Newtown Mount Kennedy, tell me if I've got my facts wrong, or, or, or give me
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more facts to help paint a fuller picture on that.
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No, that's exactly right, and to give you an extra shocking detail, Leo Varadkar, who up until very
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recently was the Taoiseach, basically the Prime Minister of Ireland, and he recently resigned and has been
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replaced by successor Simon Harris, but when Varadkar was the Taoiseach just a few months ago, he actually said
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that, you know, we've heard people are complaining about a lack of consultation when it comes to these asylum
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centres, and we've heard the people loud and clear, so we've got these community engagement teams who
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are going to be sending it out, and they're going to be speaking to people about what's happening, but
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he says, I also want to be very clear that it's not about seeking permission when we send out these
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community engagement teams, it's really just about giving you information and dispelling misinformation
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that might arise about the situation, so effectively, it's not, it's less of a negotiation,
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it's less of a asking you, hey, is this something you're comfortable with, do you have any objection
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to what we're doing, they're more sitting you down at a table and saying, this is what's going to
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happen to you, and the people who live around you, you don't have any say in it whatsoever, we're just
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letting you know in advance, and if you have any kind of alternative takes on the situation, we'll be
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happy to tell you why you're wrong, and explain to you like you're an idiot, how you've completely
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misunderstood the situation, so I think when you look at situations like that, and that style of
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governance, is it any wonder why tensions are sky high in a country like this? You know, I'm just
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thinking of, I used to do a lot of journalism about oil and gas, and other fossil fuels, and that involves
00:23:25.080
mining and drilling, and sometimes some, a farmer's field has deep underneath it, oil and gas, and how do
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you, you know, protect everyone's interests, and treat everyone fairly, because if you don't, you're going
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to have, and, and I'm familiar with how they do it in different jurisdictions, the amount of notice, the
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amount of, you know, friendly chats, and, and, and town hall meetings, and here's the plan, and should we
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change it, like, the astonishing lengths that we go to for other development, how much parking, who, who's
00:24:00.480
coming there, like, like, to put a thousand military-aged men, like, that's bizarre to begin with, that
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they're refugees, I mean, in my mind, refugees are women and children, I'm not saying there can be no men
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as refugees, but, but I went to one of these tent encampments in downtown Dublin, they're all guys,
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and one of them told me he was from Palestine, okay, maybe, another guy told me he was from
00:24:21.740
Pakistan, these are military-aged guys, um, just plunked there, I don't know, I, I find it
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astonishing, and no other industry or project would be so, um, hostile to the host community, like, I, I just
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think of, if the oil and gas industry said, we're just going to start drilling in your neighborhood to
00:24:45.380
hell with you, it's just unthinkable, like, there's years of, of, um, you know, how's it going to
00:24:51.400
affect the economy, how's it going to affect the environment, how's, in Canada, we even have gender
00:24:54.940
studies, how will this pipeline have a gender impact, now, that's insanity, but compare that to
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what you're, what's happening in, in Ireland, sorry, I'm ranting about it, we were going to drive to
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Newtown, Mount Kennedy, one of the towns that is having a migrant center built there, we were told,
00:25:10.740
don't bother, they've got a barrier on the road, they won't let you through, I said, who's they, the police,
00:25:14.780
I don't know if that's accurate anymore, but I was told, do not drive there, they will not let you
00:25:18.900
through, even to take pictures. Yeah, I, I wouldn't be surprised, uh, Fatima has been going down there
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quite a bit, my colleague Fatima Gunning, who's been doing a lot of coverage on that story in
00:25:28.840
particular, because that's become kind of a, a focal point, this town of Newtown, Mount Kennedy,
00:25:33.900
which is in, uh, the county of Wicklow, which just so happens to be the Taoiseach, the prime minister's
00:25:39.720
constituency, so this is all unfolding on his front lawn, effectively, metaphorically speaking,
00:25:45.680
and, uh, uh, we have an election coming up, and so I think the government lately are in panic mode
00:25:52.260
when it comes to the immigration issue, because the word on the street is that they are being
00:25:55.820
slaughtered on the doors every time they knock on a door to canvas, it's just immigration,
00:26:00.500
immigration, immigration, because unfortunately for them, one of the net consequences when you airdrop,
00:26:06.820
you know, dozens, hundreds of asylum centers all over the country in every town and village,
00:26:13.060
is you suddenly bring the immigration issue in a very real and tangible way into the homes of people
00:26:19.500
who maybe never would have thought about it, you know, I think about a couple of years ago in,
00:26:23.880
I believe it was 2022, there was a poll done where they asked Irish people, where do you, uh,
00:26:29.860
what is the most important issue to you, the, the number one top issue, and I think something like
00:26:35.640
five percent of people said immigration, you know, it was a concern, but it was not a big concern
00:26:41.740
relative to other things like housing and so on, that number in a more recent version of that poll
00:26:47.040
had jumped to 41 percent in just a couple of years, and it's only on the rise still to this day, so,
00:26:54.660
uh, the only reason I say that is just that they have successfully, I don't want to say radicalized,
00:27:00.600
because there's nothing radical about wanting, uh, you know, to control your borders as a country,
00:27:05.380
but they have successfully accelerated the immigration debate that other European and, uh,
00:27:10.980
American, North American countries have been having for years now, they've accelerated it greatly
00:27:15.940
here, uh, in, and truncated that whole decades-long conversation into about a year.
00:27:22.680
Yeah, I, it's, it was something, well, let me refer again to my one, I was only in Ireland for 25 hours,
00:27:29.480
Ben, I don't want to come across as an expert at all, but I, I certainly saw a week's worth of stuff
00:27:35.180
in that, um, 25 hours, and I met some very interesting people. I met a candidate for the
00:27:41.540
European Parliament, because Ireland is still in, uh, Ireland was not part of Brexit, even though I know
00:27:47.580
there's some people in Ireland who want to get out, um, I've forgotten his name, uh, Maliki, uh, was his
00:27:52.900
first name, I, I've just forgotten his last name. Maliki Steenson. That's exactly right, I, I, I, I was
00:27:57.780
walking in the march next to him, and I thought, here's a handsome gentleman who seems very nice, and I
00:28:02.080
started chatting with him, and he told me a few things. A few days later, uh, an Antifa type was
00:28:08.600
arrested, uh, planning to assassinate him. I, I heard something about that, I don't, I don't know the
00:28:16.280
details, and obviously I, I, I would assume, uh, it's a, it's an ongoing legal case. Yeah, like, there's a lot of
00:28:22.440
drama there, uh, I, I guess the reason I mentioned that she's a candidate, I think he's running for
00:28:27.000
European Parliament, sorry, I'm going off the fly here without checking my notes. I met a number of
00:28:30.800
candidates for the European Parliament, and other candidates for local elections, but here's the
00:28:35.360
thing about all of them, Ben, they all felt sort of independent. They all felt, some of them felt a
00:28:41.140
little bit fringe, to be honest. Uh, I mean, I, they had a lot of heart, and a lot of passion, but I thought,
00:28:46.080
no, that's, that guy's not going to win. I can tell that right now, and, and the reason I say that
00:28:50.820
is not to be disparaging, it's that all the established parties with the political machinery
00:28:55.600
behind them seem to be in sync on this. Sinn Fein, um, I, I'm not even sure, I don't want to mispronounce
00:29:03.160
the names of some of the other parties. All the parties in power, correct me if I'm wrong, are unanimous
00:29:11.580
that they're for this immigration approach. If, if I've missed something in my 25-hour visit to
00:29:17.660
Dublin, let me know. But I, I seen, you mentioned the 41% of the Irish say this is a big problem.
00:29:24.360
I've seen some of these very passionate independent... And by the way, sorry to interrupt you,
00:29:28.740
because I don't want to minimize the issue. 41% of people said it was the number one issue for them.
00:29:33.640
There are a lot more people than that who are seriously concerned about it, but it might,
00:29:37.380
they might say, oh, housing is number one, and then immigration number two. And by the way,
00:29:41.580
those are linked. Those are linked issues. Exactly, yeah. So, uh, when they do polling on it,
00:29:46.460
about 80% of the country says that immigration is too high. So way, it's, we're, we're getting near
00:29:51.800
unanimous agreement at this point. Except for in the political class. And that's, I guess,
00:29:55.800
the question I want to ask you, um, because I felt some energy there. I felt real people,
00:30:03.100
like moms who had never done anything political in their life scared because there were kids being
00:30:08.500
stabbed by, by migrants. And maybe that's an anecdote. They shouldn't expand beyond a rare few
00:30:15.100
cases, but people feel how they feel. You can't tell people stop feeling that way. That makes them
00:30:20.800
feel it even more. And if, and if you shame people for being far right, like, like I saw some of the
00:30:27.660
insults by the establishment thrown at the marchers and they were insane. I mean, we had the same thing
00:30:32.720
here in Canada, you're called racist, you're called whatever. I had never seen the insult of,
00:30:38.420
oh, you're working with British intelligence. I thought, okay, right. I don't know enough about
00:30:42.280
the Irish British, um, conflict, but that seems like the kind of insult you throw at anyone to
00:30:49.100
shut them up. I mean, I didn't see any British, uh, MI5 or MI6 there, but what do I know? I'm from
00:30:54.640
Canada. It's just, I guess what I love about that particular angle that they sometimes tried to
00:30:59.860
bring out is you go, okay, in your scenario, are you trying to say that it's only because of
00:31:06.640
alleged MI5 propaganda that Irish people have a problem with 150 tents popping up right in front
00:31:14.840
of their house while they're trying to like leave for work. And that there's all these adult men from,
00:31:20.880
you know, who are largely unvetted, who we know very little about, who have destroyed their documents
00:31:26.220
and they've all moved into your area and there's no accommodation for them. And they're living there
00:31:32.040
in front of your house in a tent with no, even like a port-a-loo or something to, you know, there's
00:31:38.100
no toilet facilities. There's no anything. The only reason somebody would have a problem with that
00:31:42.880
is if there was some kind of nefarious foreign intelligence operation to tell them that that's
00:31:48.800
bad. Is that the position that we're supposed to believe? Because it's so self-evidently absurd
00:31:54.040
what's happening. I don't think we need Russia or the UK or the CIA or anyone else to influence
00:32:02.500
things to make people upset with what's happening. I know it's so nuts to me. I'm just, it was funny
00:32:07.720
as a Canadian to discover that card to play because it reminded me of how stupid the insults here are
00:32:13.460
in Canada. By the way, I don't know almost anything about Sinn Féin, but I would have thought that
00:32:18.920
they want Ireland for the Irish. That would be sort of a motto of theirs. I mean, if you're fighting to
00:32:23.780
get the Brits out, but you're fine with a hundred thousand migrants a year and a population of five
00:32:29.200
million, I don't know how that fits. Like, I don't know how it's in the Irish national interest,
00:32:34.240
but, but I'm, I'm not sophisticated in my Irish history. My, but come to come back to my, my long-winded
00:32:39.540
point, you have all this passion, you have all this energy. People are speaking out about it. You see
00:32:43.840
marches, you see lads taking things into their own hands. Sometimes there are protests that turn into
00:32:50.560
fisticuffs and you have, which is not good by the way. I know, I know, but that's what happens
00:32:56.440
when people say, I no longer believe in all the institutions, including the Garda, including
00:33:01.180
the police. I no longer trust anything. Who's there to help me because the political system isn't
00:33:07.480
working for these folks. And how is that going to change? Is a political opportunity seeker going
00:33:13.800
to say, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm going to start a political party, or I'm going to change my existing
00:33:20.000
political party to, to get in front of this parade that's marching. Because if, if the entire political
00:33:25.640
class locks out the people, the people will get more desperate. And I, and Ireland has a history of
00:33:32.780
taking things into their own hands. What is there? Is there a political path out of this? Or are all the
00:33:39.620
establishment parties saying, no, we're going to tell you how it is. And we'll explain how you're
00:33:44.300
a bigot. If you disagree. There's most certainly, I mean, the, the, the fact of the matter is as it
00:33:50.500
stands, independents are polling higher than any political party, uh, about a quarter of the public
00:33:59.100
when they're asked, we've got an election coming up in about a week and about a quarter of people
00:34:03.300
when they're asked, who are you going to give your first preference vote to? Because we have a,
00:34:07.240
a very unique voting system in Ireland where instead of, you know, in America, let's say
00:34:12.220
you vote one time and then that's it, you're done in Ireland, you vote in order of your preference.
00:34:17.600
So hypothetically put it in an American context. So people might understand from abroad, you could
00:34:22.860
hypothetically vote for libertarian number one, and then Donald Trump number two. Right. And then
00:34:29.980
if the libertarian, the libertarian guy gets your vote, but then if he loses, then your vote goes to
00:34:34.720
Trump, that kind of thing. And so there's benefits and there's downsides to that system. I personally
00:34:39.900
quite like it because it means that smaller parties, one of the biggest things that stops
00:34:45.280
people in countries like America from starting a third party or putting their weight behind a third
00:34:50.440
party is because you feel like you're wasting your vote in the Irish system. You don't, you can vote
00:34:55.520
for total, no hopers, a guy who you like his ideas. You'd like if he did well, but you expect them to
00:35:02.300
bomb and go nowhere, you can still justify voting for him, knowing that your vote will then transfer
00:35:07.480
to somebody who's a bit more serious down the ballot. So, so that's a whole other conversation.
00:35:12.440
But the only point I'm making is, uh, independence, people who don't subscribe to any party are, uh,
00:35:19.900
making up 25% of the vote, according to the latest polling. And that's bigger than all of the other
00:35:26.560
parties. Uh, uh, uh, you know, and that think about how astonishing that is. Think about that
00:35:31.980
in an American context where independence were outstripping the Republicans and the Democrats and
00:35:38.760
the Greens and the libertarians. And the, the only people who were getting any kind of political
00:35:44.620
traction were people who said, I'm not with a party. I'm just some guy. That's the level of
00:35:48.660
dissatisfaction people have with the establishment.
00:35:50.780
I did not know. That's how Ireland shows people. What level of office is the election being held
00:35:57.080
for? Is it the European parliament alone or are there other votes? It's the European parliament
00:36:02.940
and it's the local election. So that's for like count, like city councils and town councils.
00:36:07.880
I met a few candidates for, well, that's very, and what's the date of that? Is it both on the same day?
00:36:13.360
Yeah, both on the same day. There'll be, uh, uh, two different ballots, but, uh, it'll be,
00:36:18.440
the vote will be held concurrently. And that's going to be on the 7th of June, I believe.
00:36:23.480
And so this is not, it's not hugely practically important because councils have relatively limited
00:36:31.460
power. The European parliament, I mean, we're a drop in the, uh, uh, ocean when it comes to
00:36:36.580
the massive behemoth that is the European parliament. So kind of, no matter what happens
00:36:41.840
at these elections, not a lot is going to change tangibly. It's not like they're going to start
00:36:46.680
lashing through amazing policies or terrible policies. Things will probably not be impacted
00:36:52.140
in that way. But the, the difference it will make is hypothetically, let's say all of the major
00:36:58.280
parties get completely crushed and independence nationwide surge to the top. That's going to
00:37:05.700
send the political system into chaos, potentially in a good way, because next year we've got, uh,
00:37:12.180
the general elections, they, they have to be held legally by March or, or possibly even a little
00:37:17.480
bit earlier than that. And so this, I think the government are holding this one as a kind
00:37:21.340
of a feeling out process to see how bad is the damage going to be, or, or will it be bad? You
00:37:26.400
know, could they maybe salvage it? And so if independence do well here, that will completely
00:37:32.040
change the complexion of the general election coming up and who knows how, whether that'll be
00:37:35.840
good or bad or what the impact of that might be. Isn't that amazing? Well, I'm so excited because
00:37:41.540
although there's a lot of terrible things happening, I think it sounds like Irish folks
00:37:46.760
are waking up little green shoots of hope. And it, it sounds like my concern about, well,
00:37:52.480
there's no real force behind these independents. What you're telling me is that the transferable
00:37:57.920
ballot actually allows independent people a chance. And from what you say, they're doing strongly in
00:38:03.840
polls. Very exciting. That's not far away, June 7th. Ben, I don't want to take up any more of your
00:38:08.620
time, but it's so, I, I have no family or ethnic or, I have no connection to Ireland at all.
00:38:17.140
But I, I find it so interesting and I, I so enjoyed my visit there and I was surprised by people who,
00:38:24.020
I mean, of course everyone loves Gripped, but I was also surprised that people there follow Rebel
00:38:27.920
News, even though we really haven't focused on Ireland in a very long time. So, uh,
00:38:33.840
I'm grateful to you for teaching me and teaching our viewers along with me what's going on there.
00:38:40.080
And I'm hopeful for Ireland. I know that sounds crazy because it's bad news every day,
00:38:44.420
but, uh, you know, they do say it's darkest before the dawn and maybe June 7th. I mean,
00:38:49.660
first when the referendums happened a few weeks ago, when that crazy referendum to take the motherhood,
00:38:56.040
literally to take the word mother out of the constitution, when those were slapped down
00:39:00.140
by three quarters of the population, when the entire establishment was behind it, I thought
00:39:04.680
Ireland is waking up. They're not buying the BS anymore. And by the way, Ben, I really think
00:39:09.480
Gripped is part of the reason people are waking up because finally they can hear the other side of
00:39:14.120
the story from Irish people. They can trust. I really think you guys are making a big difference
00:39:18.780
there. And I'm not just saying that to be friendly. I, I really saw it when I was there. People trust
00:39:24.960
gripped because you're not part of the regime. Well, I really, really appreciate that. It's,
00:39:30.640
uh, I mean, I'll, I'll, I'll like, it's not my job to, and I'm not suggesting that you're saying
00:39:35.500
I should, but you know, I, I feel like my job is just to, to tell the truth as I see it and then
00:39:40.680
let, let the people make up their own minds and hopefully in a democracy, people make good
00:39:45.220
decisions. That's all, that's all we can do, isn't it? Yeah. You're making, well, you're, you're doing
00:39:48.880
that very well. And we have a motto here at Rebel News, telling the other side of the story. You
00:39:54.360
guys, I think are one standard deviation, less hotheaded than us. I'm joking around. I mean,
00:40:01.420
we love what we do here and we do it for a reason, but I, but watching you engage one-on-one with the
00:40:06.420
cabinet ministers, it's very impressive. And I think that's, that goes to the authoritative
00:40:10.960
and credible, um, journalist, high quality, ethical journalism that you do. And it really pays off.
00:40:18.360
We're at a time, which is too bad because I was going to ask you about this one line in your tweet
00:40:22.920
about that anti-racism conference, quote, attendees running around in a circle,
00:40:28.800
silently wearing COVID masks with their fists raised while Tupac rap music played in remembrance
00:40:36.560
of George Floyd. And that's just such a crazy image. And the COVID-19 masks is just the,
00:40:42.760
the chef's kiss to that whole thing. We'll have to talk about that another day.
00:40:46.840
Ben, thank you so much for joining us. And when I'm praising, I mean, I praise some of our guests
00:40:52.400
yesterday, we had the Taxpayers Federation on, and I love those guys, but I really, really mean it.
00:40:58.480
My, my two favorite news outlets in the whole world, I love GB News in the UK. I think they need
00:41:06.220
to strengthen their Irish department. And I love gripped.ie. And maybe it's because I see some
00:41:12.860
kinship there, the issues we're covering, the fact that we're the underdogs. And so I really
00:41:18.420
encourage all of our Rebel News viewers to take a look at gripped, G-R-I-P-T dot I-E. There are so
00:41:25.940
few good guys out there that when you find them, you got to support them. And, and, and it's just a
00:41:31.300
few euros. I mean, most of their stuff is free, but you can sign up to be a page to subscribe,
00:41:37.180
to support them. And I encourage it. Ben, we'll let you go. Thanks a million for, for making us
00:41:42.680
smarter. Thank you so much, Ezra. Great talking to you. All right. There you have it. Ben Scallon,
00:41:47.180
he's the senior political correspondent for gripped.ie. Well, that's our show for today.
00:41:54.000
Until next time, on behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters, to you at home,