Abacus pollster David Colleto answers a question about what Canadians like best about living in Canada, and whether it's getting better or worse than it used to be, and why it's not getting any better.
00:11:15.060They're digging holes and they're pooping and putting tents up because they don't want to go to the washrooms.
00:11:19.280And I'm here to fact check that because that's not a lie, so.
00:11:22.480It makes me not want to swim and not want to be on the beach.
00:11:25.780To be a responsible parent, you should be showing your kids that you can actually throw out their diaper in the washroom, not bury it at a beach.
00:11:32.280Something that's just common sense, like, why would you do that?
00:11:35.140And they dig a hole and they use it for their bathroom.
00:11:39.580I truly think that's on people's minds when they're asked about natural beauty.
00:11:43.240Trudeau has brought in 2 million new people to Canada in the past year, mainly on student visas, about a million, and work visas, that's about 750,000.
00:11:53.460They're often staying 10 people to an apartment in Toronto or Vancouver.
00:11:58.200It's so crowded where they live, so, of course, they're going to get out of the house and go to parks and national parks.
00:12:05.280And so now they're crowded and they're alienating.
00:12:26.480No one can afford to buy a house in Canada, especially if you're competing against 2 million people a year needing housing that Trudeau is bringing in this year and next year and the following year.
00:12:35.480No one can live on minimum wage, especially since you're now being undercut by foreign workers earning even less than minimum wage in some cases.
00:12:43.820There are 450,000 unemployed young Canadians.
00:12:47.540There are 750,000 temporary foreign workers in Canada.
00:14:49.680Well, half of my travels these days are to cover trials of people who were charged with criminal offenses in February 2022 during the trucker convoy, even though the Emergencies Act was already ruled by the federal court to be illegal and unconstitutional.
00:15:06.640Well, that hasn't stopped literally hundreds of cases from proceeding to court, including big, spectacular cases like our friend Tamara Leach on trial in Ottawa still, or the various cases in Coutts, Alberta, where there was an echo blockade between the Alberta and Montana borders.
00:15:23.780Well, here's an interesting case about a man who was charged, arrested on February 19th, 2022, so right at the apex of the Freedom Convoy in Ottawa.
00:15:35.300But he was roughed up, illegally searched, and basically a case of police misconduct the whole way down.
00:15:42.500Trouble is, who has the funds to fight back?
00:15:45.820As you know, the Democracy Fund has crowdfunded for many people, including the aforementioned Tamara Leach and the Coutts defendants, the Coutts III, and actually 55 other truckers.
00:15:56.380But the granddaddy of civil liberties law firms in Canada are our dear friends at the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms.
00:16:05.760And they've been at this game for more than 10 years defending people, including during the trucker convoy.
00:16:12.120And I am delighted to welcome on the show Monique Grenier, the lawyer for Ben Spicer, who joins us now via Skype from Ottawa.
00:16:42.380Was he more an activist or an observer?
00:16:45.960Well, you raised some very good points there.
00:16:48.860In fact, there was a YouTube video from February 19th, 2022, from the location of Mr. Spicer's arrest, that was actually put into evidence by the defence as an exhibit, because it showed the atmosphere.
00:17:05.200The atmosphere was, I would say, very jovial.
00:17:09.880There were a lot of people milling about, some protesters, some observers, dogs, children, police.
00:17:17.680So Mr. Spicer was in attendance and was arrested that day.
00:17:26.240It was 7.20 p.m. on the Saturday night, the last Saturday of the protest after the police came in.
00:17:53.580Tell me about their secret spying on him, because this is bad behaviour by the government.
00:17:58.560So I can tell you from the evidence at trial that Mr. Spicer was arrested unlawfully because it was found there was no grounds for arrest.
00:18:08.400After the arrest, his person was searched, incidental to arrest, because he was found to have been unlawfully arrested, that there were no grounds for arrest.
00:18:19.780But most interesting, and the point you raised, was the paddy wagon audio and video that the Crown sought to rely upon to try to ask the court to infer criminal intent or criminal activity.
00:18:33.160So why it was found to be a breach of a Section 8 Charter right was because there was no signage that he was being audio or video recorded.
00:18:43.880There was no explanation, no warning given to him.
00:18:49.320So due to that, he did have an expectation of privacy.
00:18:52.520It was found to be a reasonable expectation of privacy.
00:18:55.340The Crown argued that while in police custody, you don't have a right to privacy, that you're in custody, right?
00:19:04.280Now, the court found, based on several cases we were able to present, that you do, in fact, maintain a reasonable expectation of privacy in custody, even in a police vehicle, a paddy wagon, such as in this case.
00:19:19.100So if there had been a sign, for example, or if it had been clear that Mr. Spicer was aware that he was being audio and video recorded, that would have changed the facts.
00:19:28.600But he was unaware and he was having a conversation with a protester, provided some personal information, information about his opinion about the convoy, for example.
00:19:38.160So he had an interest in the subject matter.
00:19:41.200And based on the circumstances, the judge agreed with the defense that this was a breach of his Section 8 right.
00:19:49.560They could not have had that recording without a warrant unless there was some exigent circumstances, which there were not.
00:19:57.920So the judge actually agreed with all of our charter breaches that we advance, Section 8, 9, and 10B, right to instruct and retain counsel.
00:20:10.560And, you know, that's an argument that a person would likely not be able to make on their own.
00:20:16.340That's a fairly sophisticated argument.
00:20:17.980You have to understand the Charter of Rights.
00:20:20.380I don't know if you have to give notice that you're challenging things.
00:20:23.240I don't know how the criminal procedure went where you are, but I guess what I'm saying is the fact that I don't know, I imagine a lay person certainly doesn't know.
00:20:45.760And it was such a privilege to be able to have this opportunity to defend Mr. Spicer through the Justice Center's funding.
00:20:53.680I was actually in the beginning able to, I had 22 clients was my count, that the Justice Center was willing to defend and fund.
00:21:06.260So they've done a really good job doing that.
00:21:08.480No, you couldn't, in my opinion, make this argument on your own as a lay person.
00:21:12.780You may be eaten by the wolves, if that's the right terminology.
00:21:16.580You may advance arguments that are completely irrelevant.
00:21:19.360Even, for example, you said in the beginning that even though the Emergencies Act was declared improperly invoked, it really doesn't matter.
00:21:27.820Because these are criminal charges, and criminal charges are based on, you know, the grounds for arrest.
00:21:32.880Did the person commit mischief, for example?
00:21:35.500It makes no difference whether there is an Emergencies Act invoked or not.
00:21:39.360I guess that was the reason for going in.
00:21:41.320However, I would also note that the Emergencies Act did have an exception for lawful, peaceful protests.
00:21:48.180Right. And you said something a moment ago I want to come back to.
00:21:51.260You said that when he was in the paddy wagon with another protester, he, quote, expressed an opinion.
00:21:56.700And that that was what the Crown wanted to rely on to say that he was doing something mischievous.
00:22:03.100And I hate the fact that we're in a country where having an opinion can be a crime.
00:22:10.060Well, I can't speak for the Crown in that was it really the opinion or was it something else that the Crown would have pointed to to say, oh, here, you can infer criminal activity.
00:22:19.960So I'm not prepared to say it was due to an opinion that the Crown would have argued that he might have done something meriting some conviction.
00:22:31.840Well, I'm glad you won. And you say you've taken 22 cases with the Justice Center.
00:22:35.640How many of them have been through trial? Because I imagine they're getting a little long in the tooth.
00:22:40.000It's been two and a half years. And of course, there's a time there's a sort of a time limit on how long the prosecution can drag their feet.
00:22:47.840What's the status of the other 21 cases?
00:22:50.140Actually, Mr. Spicer was my last case. So I am very pleased. I'm just counting in my head.
00:22:55.780So some of the charges were withdrawn by the Crown early on.
00:23:00.360I think my count is I did four trials, if I'm not mistaken, all successful.
00:23:07.840I have not had a client convicted after trial.
00:23:11.560There was one where the Crown withdrew the charges on the eve of trial.
00:23:17.060And there were some resolutions, which means that, you know, each person has to make their own decisions.
00:23:23.500They may not have wanted to proceed. And in some cases, maybe made the right decision.
00:23:28.000But none of my clients obtained a criminal record.
00:23:32.360I'm so glad to hear that. 22 out of 22.
00:23:35.580You know, I should tell you, the Democracy Fund, with whom we support a lot of their work,
00:23:40.560they have similar results, especially on Arrive Can app charges.
00:23:46.420And, you know, you can tell that a lot of the prosecutors and even a lot of the judges, here we are two and a half years later,
00:23:54.580and you have hundreds of these BS COVID charges clogging up the courts, taking up prosecutors' time, judges' time, courts' time.
00:24:02.400And I think the more sensible prosecutors say, what am I doing?
00:24:09.860I'm focused on this BS political matter instead of an assault case or a robbery or something.
00:24:17.500I think that there was a bit of a mania by the authorities.
00:24:21.820I think, frankly, the imposition of the Emergencies Act sort of shocked people and maybe shocked people out of their trance because things were getting worse.
00:24:31.560In that moment, I think it was the shock of the trucker convoy.
00:24:35.040Trudeau made an unforced error by bringing the martial law, and things started to unravel for him then.
00:24:42.780That's when he started to really go down.
00:24:44.180It's interesting that you say that, because, like, my office is just a few blocks from Wellington Street, right?
00:24:51.260So I was here throughout the entire protest and drawn to it, in fact, because of my love for photography.
00:24:57.880But I do remember, in particular, the speech made by the prime minister.
00:25:04.440I think it was the Monday or the Tuesday after the beginning of the protest.
00:25:07.740And I was here at my office, which is on Metcalfe, and it was a very quiet day.
00:25:12.560But then he made the speech, and he made some comments that I thought did not de-escalate, but rather they escalated because of the terminology that was used about the protesters.
00:25:22.660And I was amazed to see within 15 minutes on Metcalfe, there was a line of 18 wheelers driving up Metcalfe, I believe, in response to that speech.
00:25:34.340Well, I think Trudeau wanted a conflagration.
00:25:36.880He wanted to replicate the January 6th narrative in the U.S. where you had protesters at the Capitol and they were insurrectionists and terrorists.
00:25:46.900I think Trudeau thought he could have a do-over of that up here, but I think it blew up in his face.
00:25:52.560He was the one shown to have tyrannical instincts.
00:25:58.480There was no violence on the part of the truckers.
00:26:00.100In fact, the only violence was done to the truckers, including by riot horses.
00:26:05.860Monique Grenier, what a pleasure to meet you.
00:26:07.680And I have to say I'm just delighted to hear that you took 22 cases of truckers, and 22 of them were saved by your smarts and the generosity of the Justice Center.
00:26:19.940Some left, so I can't take all the credit.
00:26:22.540All right, well, you know what, though, you're being very accurate, which you like in a lawyer, but it sounds like you've had some great victories.
00:26:32.100And Ben Spicer was saved from a conviction, and I'm glad to hear it because I think the pendulum swung too far against our civil liberties.
00:26:42.280So I like the fact you were fighting back.
00:27:34.280I didn't properly understand why they were showing these short videos because Tamara Leach was sort of like in the background, and it was just banter.
00:27:41.300And like I said, what's the point of this video?
00:27:44.740The point was the prosecutor was showing the five little super short nothing videos.
00:27:50.220That is the only evidence of what Tamara Leach was doing in Ottawa.