EZRA LEVANT ｜ Surviving the politicized pandemic： An interview with Dr Robert Malone
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Summary
Dr. Robert Malone was a dissident voice during the pandemic, both on the issue of the virus itself and the vaccine response to it. What an incredible man, and we have such a deep talk today about everything from Event 201 to who exactly is financing the Wuhan Institute of Virology?
Transcript
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Hello, my Rebels. Today, a very special interview with Dr. Robert Malone, MD, one of the innovators,
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the early researchers behind mRNA technology who became a dissident voice during the lockdowns,
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both on the issue of the virus itself and the vaccine response to it. What an incredible
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man. And we have such a deep talk today about everything from Event 201 to who exactly is
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financing the Wuhan Institute of Virology. I think you will be riveted by every word this man has to
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say. That's ahead. But first, let me invite you to become a subscriber to what we call Rebel News Plus.
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That's the video version of this podcast. Just go to rebelnewsplus.com, click subscribe. It's eight
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bucks a month, which I think is a bargain, frankly. But to us, it really adds up because we don't take
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any money from the government. We rely on you, our viewers. So, you know, eight bucks here,
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eight bucks there. Before you know it, you can meet some payroll. We've been demonetized by YouTube,
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of course, so we rely on you. Please go to rebelnewsplus.com and click subscribe. All right,
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without further ado, here's my interview with Dr. Malone.
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Tonight, a very special interview with a very special person. We spend some time
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with Dr. Robert Malone, MD, the developer of mRNA technology. It's March 23rd, and this is the
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Hello, my friends. You're about to hear one of the most amazing guests that I've ever had on
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this show. I was riveted by it. I hung on his every word. I'll introduce him in a moment,
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but first I want to explain we connected to our guest with Starlink internet technology. We have
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regular internet here that was working fine, but his is via Starlink, and he explained to me after
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the interview that sometimes the signal drops, so there will be some moments where his video freezes
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and where his audio drops. But I encourage you to stay with this interview because you will hear
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things that you have never heard before. All right, here's today's program.
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I've never seen the word disinformation and misinformation weaponized as much as I have
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during the pandemic, not just for skepticism regarding the lockdowns, but for questions about
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the virus itself and the vaccines that were proposed as a response to them. However, it's tough to call
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one of the innovators, the creators of mRNA technology, tough to call such a man when he has
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a master's in science and a medical degree, tough to call him a disinformation man. Of course, he knows
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more in his little finger than the entire press corps does combined, but that's what they try to say and do
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to Dr. Robert Malone. Now, longtime viewers of Rebel News will have followed Dr. Malone's
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passionate exhortations and attempts to teach the public what the political class would not hear
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about the virus and about the vaccines. He has emerged vindicated in so many ways. In fact, he just returned
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from Austin, Texas, where he was testifying before that state Senate, giving them advice on how to
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shape public policy so that the crisis of the last few years doesn't happen again. We are delighted
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to spend the course of the next half hour with Dr. Robert Malone. Dr. Malone, thanks very much for
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joining us. It's a pleasure to meet you. I know you've met and dealt with other Rebel News staff, but it's
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nice to have you on my show. I appreciate that. Thank you, Ezra. Thanks for having me on and for the
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chance to talk. Well, it's my pleasure. Now, let's reintroduce you a little bit for guests who may not
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know you. Tell us, in a nutshell, how you came to know mRNA technology. That's a word a lot of people
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know now, but three years ago, I don't think one in a thousand people have ever heard that. Can you sum up
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what mRNA technology is and would you say that it's inherently hopeful, a technology? What was your
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point of view when you were helping to develop it? So this goes back to my graduate school days
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at the Salk Institute in the Laboratory of Molecular Biology and Virology in the late 1980s. And then I
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left the Salk and joined a startup company called Vical in La Jolla, California. The work was done to
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try to enable me to ask some fundamental questions about retroviruses. And at the time, I was very
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passionately pursuing a career in gene therapy. So I wanted to be a pediatric gene therapist. And I was
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working on trying to improve the use of the utility of the leading gene therapy technology at the time,
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which was retroviruses. To do it, I had to develop methods for working with RNA because retroviruses
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are packaged as RNA, ribonucleic acid. That's their genome. And they're retroviruses because they're
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able to change the RNA into DNA. Most viruses, RNA viruses can't, like coronaviruses can't do that.
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And so I needed to develop methods to allow me to manufacture large quantities of pure RNA
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and include and learn about what were the appropriate genetic elements
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proteins in that RNA and chemical elements necessary to make it so that it could produce protein when it
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was delivered into a cell. And then I tested all the different methods of delivery that were available
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at the time. None of them worked. And was fortunate to be the first to test a new tech that had been
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developed in the Bay Area involving positively charged fats. And so that's what gave rise to that
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suite of technologies. And then having established that I could do all these things, make large quantities
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of RNA that had the proper structure and cause it to be slipped into virtually any cell type. And then
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testing it in embryos and showing that it worked in embryos. The question was, what was it good for?
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And so I came up with the idea of using RNA as a gene therapy medicine, which was considered to be
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radical and bizarre at the time, not at all feasible. And of all the potential genetic medicines that
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could be developed using this technology, I proposed that the leading one would be for vaccines because
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the tech didn't work very good. It would produce a little amount of protein, but a little amount of
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protein can provoke a very large immune response. So the core idea behind genetic vaccination was to mimic
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what happens in the immune response when you get infected with a virus without having the whole
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virus, only part of the virus. So that's what gave rise to it. And those are the concepts and the origin.
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Well, I understand some of that, but not all of it. I'll admit I'm a layman on these things, but
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it's clear that you are not just a casual pundit who has only had a recent and passing interest in
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this technology. You were deeply immersed in the development of it in the early experimental days.
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I think that's what made you so powerful a voice during the pandemics, especially when issues like
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mandatory vaccination suddenly impose themselves, is that you weren't someone who had just Googled
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MRNA and read the Wikipedia page. You were someone who was deeply involved in it.
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Yeah, those things behind my back are the patents.
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That's incredible. I think that made you very valuable in the debate. And normally an expert
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with a wall of patents like that would be the toast of the town, except that I think the opposite.
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They tried to denormalize you. They tried to defame you. They tried to marginalize you. For example,
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can you tell us what was done to you on social media? Were you censored? How were you censored?
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Did political leaders demonize you? What did Anthony Fauci say or do? What did the pharmaceutical
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companies say or do when you started pumping the brakes a bit on the cheerleading of this? I mean,
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you're someone who was obviously very open to this technology, but you had criticisms of its
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application. How did they respond to you? So we still don't have the real answers to that.
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The Twitter files, if there are any that talk about me, haven't been disclosed. There is a
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FOIA document that shows that the question of who I was was brought up to Tony Fauci. And Tony Fauci
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indicated that he didn't know me. We have met the position that he took with that NIH group that
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contacted him after the press had contacted them. So I don't know what was said, if anything, behind the
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scenes. And I've had no direct contacts with Pfizer or Moderna personnel. I spoke briefly early on with Bob
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Langer, who's the chief science officer and one of the leaders in founding Moderna. And he acknowledged my
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early role in that conversation. But in general, I've had very little formal interaction or pushback
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from anyone that is affiliated with, you know, a traditional corporate organization. What I got was
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all the surrogates. So the fact checker organizations, Associated Press, it's Atlantic Monthly, New York Times,
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Rolling Stone, Washington Post. So the media coming after me.
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And in particular, the fact checkers would jump on anything I would say. And fortunately,
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I've always spoken truth. And so that came across, you know, their criticisms of me over time have
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proven to be false. There was a great hit piece from Business Insider about two years ago that
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had a series of statements about me and had interviewed with other scientists, known scientists
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about what I'd been saying. And they disagreed with that. But as you look back at that Business Insider
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piece, pretty much everything I said was right. And I likewise with the Joe Rogan hit, which went crazy.
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Joe Rogan, apparently that that broadcast was seen by over 100 million people and caused a lot of
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controversy. And and various Republicans actually inserted it into the congressional record because
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there was such a strong attempt to suppress it. Yeah, that was that that's that's all been vindicated.
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The things that I said are all come true. Your description of what you called mass formation
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psychosis was so spot on. I think that really lit up a lot of people's thinking. It it reminded me of
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the psychological experiments done 50 years ago by the ash conformity test and even in a way the Milgram
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experiments. And and I think you nailed it. And I remember at the time the phrase mass formation
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psychosis just went viral, ultra viral and on Twitter and elsewhere. And if you Googled it,
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you got that strange result, which is things are happening very quickly, like like sometimes when
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something breaks, Google wants to tamp it out. So they have this weird generic response. Results are
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changing quickly. So our searches and working like something that's so obviously designed as a euphemism for
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we're trying to redirect the links. You know, I I Googled your name just to refresh my memory about some
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basic facts before today. And you're really the only person I've ever seen that when you Google their
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name, the first result is not a Wikipedia page. And Wikipedia, of course, is horribly biased too. But it
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is that Atlantic Monthly hit piece that you described. I think a lot of search regarding you and your name
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has been hand curated by social media bureaucrats to direct people to opposition to you, to embarrassing
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hit pieces on you. I've just never like the results that came up when I typed in your name. I've never
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seen anything like that before. I think you nailed it. Let me just play a clip from that Joe Rogan
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interview because because because I can see why it went viral. It was very exciting to hear it.
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And I think you explained sort of the mass hypnosis that was going on here. Take a quick look.
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What's how does this happen? How how do we have this emergent phenomena? The how question. Right.
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And, you know, behind the how question is the why question. Um, that the the the how question of
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a third of the population basically being hypnotized and totally wrapped up in whatever
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Tony Fauci in the mainstream media feeds them, whatever CNN tells them is true.
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Um, let me illustrate that. The other day I was looking through New York Times recent articles
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about Omicron and pediatrics in preparation for this and for making some slideshows. And, um,
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and I saw this headline in The New York Times, um, epidemiologist and a vaccinologist. And the
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the title was how you should think about children and Omicron. It was it was blatantly saying this
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is how you should think. We're going to tell you how to think. Okay. People kind of got to get that
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in their head. That's the world we're in right now. Now, what Matthias Desmet has has shared with us.
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Brilliant insight is another one of those. Aha. Now that part makes sense. Um, which is that
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this comes from basically European intellectual inquiry into what the heck happened in Germany
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in the twenties and thirties, you know, very intelligent, highly educated population.
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And they went barking mad. Um, and how did that happen? Um, the answer is mass formation psychosis.
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When you have a society that has become decoupled from each other and has free floating anxiety
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in a sense that things don't make sense, we can't understand it. And then their attention gets
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focused by a leader or a series of events on one small point, just like hypnosis. They literally
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become hypnotized and can be led anywhere. And one of the aspects of that phenomena is the people that
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they identify as their leaders, the ones typically that come in and say, you have this pain and I can
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solve it for you. I and I alone. Okay. Can fix this problem for you. Okay. Then they will lead.
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They will follow that person through. It doesn't matter whether they lie to him or whatever. The
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data are irrelevant. And furthermore, anybody who questions that narrative is to be immediately
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attacked. They are the other. This is central to mass formation psychosis. And this is what has happened.
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We had all those conditions. If you remember back before 2019, everybody was complaining,
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the world doesn't make sense, blah, blah, blah. Um, and we're all isolated from each other.
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We're all on our little tools. We're not connected socially anymore, except through social media.
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Um, and then this thing happened and everybody focused on it. That is how mass formation psychosis happens.
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And that is what's happened here. You had a bigger audience in that moment
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than any politician, than anyone other than maybe St. Fauci himself. I think that's why they tried to
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censor you. Let me ask you this. Um, who funded MRNA research in the first place? You said you were
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with the Salk Institute, Jonas Salk, of course, very important, um, uh, medical researcher.
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Uh, is the funding for viruses these days, is it all military, either our military or the Russian
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military or the Chinese military? Like who would have an interest in poking and prodding
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viruses and testing their reaction to things like the, the kind of research that was being done in the
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Wuhan Institute of Virology? It seems so evidently designed for military purposes. What are your thoughts
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on that? Uh, so, uh, the truth is that the modern, uh, discipline of molecular biology and
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virology and microbiology has largely been created through massive, massive investments in biowarfare
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biowarfare. During the sixties, seventies and eighties in particular. And, uh, a case can be made
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that modern biology as we know it exists because of these huge investments in biowarfare.
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Uh, the head of the American, uh, uh, societies for microbiology was typically in, in past generations,
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uh, closely tied to the leadership in the biowarfare enterprise in the United States.
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The, uh, the, um, the CIA, uh, has long maintained programs
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involving surveillance of viruses globally. And this has been a part of the entire intelligence
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community. There used to be a program and now it's, it's, uh, matured in different ways
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in which, uh, there was a very active effort, uh, by the intelligence community to gather data from all
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over the world about infectious disease and then process that. And they used virtually
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all sources of intelligence information, um, uh, computer embedded reporting and other things,
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uh, to gather information about everything having to do with, uh, infectious disease and potential
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infectious disease outbreaks. Infectious disease is perceived as a national security threat.
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And that's what's driving a lot of this. And then we had the whole ramping up of this
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biodefense industrial, uh, complex, particularly around the time of the anthrax attacks and immediately
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before, and then subsequent, of course. So, uh, I wouldn't say it's just military, it's,
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it's military, industrial, and intelligence. And it's very much embedded in the national security,
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security enterprise. And most of the people that we perceive as leaders
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at HHS, including Tony Fauci, that, uh, are, uh, involved in these biodefense related activities,
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have deep ties both with the military and the U S intelligence complex. That's undeniable.
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One of the things I'm trying to wrap my head around is the back and forth between
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Fauci and Senator Rand Paul about what was being done in the Wuhan Institute of Virology with American
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money direction, guidance, et cetera. And this is what I find so baffling. I mean, China is, uh,
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at best arrival at worst, an enemy of the United States. It's a competitor for sure. And militarily,
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scientifically, they're either competing against America or stealing American intellectual property.
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So the idea that there would be American research in Wuhan and that it would be so
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obviously adjacent, if not directly military research, I find baffling.
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Senator Paul outright says that it was illegal research. Anthony Fauci denies that and, and
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has a definition game. Here, let me just play a bit of an exchange between these two men because
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they've, they've sparred over this a few times. Here's, here's a quick clip of that. Um, it's quite
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something. Take a look. Dr. Fauci, knowing that it is a crime to lie to Congress, do you wish to
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retract your statement of May 11th, where you claimed that the NIH never funded gain of function research
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in Wuhan? Senator Paul, I have never lied before the Congress, and I do not retract that statement.
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This paper that you were referring to was judged by qualified staff up and down the chain as not
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being gain of function. So what was, let me finish. You take an animal virus and you increase
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its transmissibility to humans. Right. You're saying that's not gain of function. Yeah, that is correct.
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And, and Senator Paul, you do not know what you are talking about, quite frankly. That's the ongoing, uh,
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quarrel. But here's a new clip as recently as today from your Twitter feed, doctor. Here, take a look at this.
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You brought this to our attention. Thank you. On September 12th and November 7th of last year,
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I sent letters to the State Department asking for records about coronavirus research that had
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been funded by the State Department. State Department refused to comply. When Assistant
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Secretary Sherman came, I asked her the same question. She didn't seem to be aware that you
00:23:15.200
had been funding coronavirus research, but you are. And I got the, I'll get back to you line.
00:23:21.280
A couple of weeks later, I met personally with you at the State Department and asked you the same
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question. Will you not divulge to us the records of the State Department's support for coronavirus
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research, particularly in China? You assured me you would help. We communicated several times over
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the phone with another assistant secretary of state, uh, who finally sent us a letter and said,
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no, we're not going to give you anything. So that's where we stand. And it's, uh, my question is,
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what's the State Department hiding? Why won't you give these records to the American people?
00:23:51.120
Uh, Senator, thank you. And, uh, yes, I appreciated, uh, uh, you raising this when we saw each other,
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uh, a month or so ago. Uh, and my understanding is that our teams have been working to find an
00:24:01.760
accommodation. Uh, there's longstanding- We got a refusal, blanket refusal. No,
00:24:06.800
they are not going to give us the records. Um, we cannot directly provide, uh, the- Sure you can.
00:24:12.480
Unredacted cables. We have a longstanding practice with this committee, uh, about how we do-
00:24:17.760
You're refusing, you're refusing to release them. No, but I think- Not that you can't. There's a
00:24:20.880
difference between can and may. You won't do it, but you can do it. My hope is that we can find
00:24:26.480
a way forward that answers your concerns so that you get the information that you're looking for.
00:24:30.320
My understanding is that our teams have been working on that and I, uh, commit to continue
00:24:34.560
to do that so we can get you the, the, uh- We're talking about unclassified material. Most of this is
00:24:39.120
unclassified. And so we just had a unanimous vote in the Senate and in the House and President Biden
00:24:45.280
just signed a- a bill saying he's gonna declassify stuff. But if you declassify it and you still hide
00:24:50.560
it from the American people, that's a problem. So what really was going on there, Doctor? And
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will we ever know? And- and how can we be working with America's, like I say, enemies, rivals,
00:25:03.360
you use the word, how can America be in Wuhan? How- how does that even work?
00:25:08.320
So, uh, uh, there are various theories about this. And it's fascinating that Stefan Boncel,
00:25:17.120
the CEO of Moderna, was very involved in the construction of the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
00:25:23.680
The Wuhan Institute of Virology really only, uh, became functional a couple of years before this
00:25:30.080
outbreak. And, uh, at the time when it appears that the virus escaped the laboratory, they, uh, shortly
00:25:39.200
thereafter had, uh, engineers in to reorganize and restructure a lot of their ventilation systems
00:25:46.640
because, uh, management of air pressure is often the cause of viral leaks in environments like this.
00:25:53.280
The, uh, one working hypothesis, let's say, for what has driven this situation
00:26:04.400
is that a few years before all this happened, there was, uh, a leak that caused a large number of
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CIA assets within the People's Republic of China to be identified.
00:26:20.880
And when they were identified, they were shot. Suddenly our intelligence community was blind to
00:26:28.960
what was going on in China in, uh, biowarfare and biodefense related activities.
00:26:36.960
So one, uh, hypothesis for what has driven this, which is consistent with, uh, what I've heard,
00:26:46.080
for instance, from my colleagues at Defense Threat Reduction Agency in the Department of Defense,
00:26:53.360
is that our intelligence community basically did a deal with the CCP
00:27:01.200
in order to be able to get some visibility and insight into what's actually going on within the,
00:27:09.600
the, um, uh, revolutionary army in the People's Republic, uh, as it relates to biowarfare and
00:27:17.520
biodefense product development and research. And there appears to have been a quid pro quo
00:27:24.480
in which, uh, we were allowed to have some intelligence visibility in exchange for technology that was
00:27:33.360
transferred to the Wuhan Institute of Virology, including reagents and a case can be made. These
00:27:38.800
viruses were technologically transferred from North Carolina into the Wuhan Institute. Uh, and there was
00:27:47.520
a tight working relationship there and it had to do with this, uh, logic that, uh, we would engage with
00:27:57.040
the opponent just as we had done. And it's the same groups basically in the same logic, just as we had
00:28:04.000
done with the loose nukes in the Soviet Union, uh, after the collapse of the Soviet Union to try to
00:28:11.760
mitigate the threat of, uh, those nuclear armaments, more heads getting into third party hands. And so that
00:28:20.960
appears in one version of this story, it appears that, uh, what happened here was a naive, uh, or maybe not
00:28:35.840
naive. There's no way to really know because it's all cloaked in this cloak and dagger world where, uh,
00:28:43.440
there was some sort of exchange of technology in exchange for access, limited access to visibility.
00:28:51.520
of what activities were going on there. And it was done in a laboratory that the West was involved
00:28:59.120
in creating at the Wuhan Institute of Virology of the national academy of, of the Chinese National Academy
00:29:06.240
of Sciences. And it, to keep it in context, there's a very, very deep and active, uh, um, exchange, uh, of
00:29:18.960
students and, uh, uh, leaders between Chinese academia and many of the leading U S academic
00:29:27.440
institutions, including Harvard, Yale, uh, University of Texas, medical branch, uh, Stanford,
00:29:36.560
et cetera. But in particular, Harvard has a very active exchange program, uh, with, uh, various Chinese
00:29:46.080
universities, including ones that are right around Wuhan that, uh, brings Chinese, uh, leadership, scientific
00:29:54.960
leadership into the United States to work with, uh, top academic labs in the States. And this is all
00:30:02.400
perceived as something akin to detente where, uh, through this exchange of, of technical capabilities
00:30:09.520
and information, uh, uh, we are reducing the risk of, uh, unintended consequences or, uh, confusion
00:30:24.080
that might cause, uh, uh, uh, a diplomatic or potentially a, a biologic, uh, weapons event that,
00:30:33.200
that no one wanted. Now, what we have of course, is a biologic event that nobody wanted, uh, and that
00:30:39.760
came out of this whole system. And that gives rise to the kinds of things like one of the bills that
00:30:46.240
I was just testifying on in Texas, uh, the movement to ban, uh, gain of function or directed evolution
00:30:53.840
research to the extent possible, because I think a strong case could be made that the risks far out
00:31:00.240
weigh the benefits. And we've had three years of experience in that. Well, that's a shocking story.
00:31:05.840
You've just told, if I had one question for an Anthony Fauci, I would ask him this. Now, maybe
00:31:11.200
he's already been asked this question. Do you know my question to him? And I doubt I'll ever have a
00:31:16.240
chance to ask it would be, have you ever been to Wuhan, China? Do we know if he has been, maybe that's
00:31:22.480
not a secret. Maybe he's already been asked that. I don't know, uh, the answer to that. I, I, um,
00:31:31.600
there is, uh, there are, uh, individuals, uh, who assert that Tony Fauci has a very, very close
00:31:40.960
personal relationship with the director of the Wuhan Institute of Virology that's, uh, spans many,
00:31:47.520
many years, uh, probably spans before the advent of the Institute of Virology. So I, I can also say
00:31:57.200
that when Tony Fauci was put on the stand, uh, by the attorney generals in their lawsuit against
00:32:03.200
the state attorney generals in their lawsuit against Google and the United States government,
00:32:07.600
uh, Tony Fauci pleaded, I cannot remember over 160 times. So I think that's a prelude to
00:32:16.000
how he's likely to testify in other cases, if he's put on the stand and sworn in.
00:32:21.280
It'd be quite something if he couldn't remember a trip to Wuhan. Um, let me ask you about something
00:32:25.680
else that's curious. And I find this so astonishing. I can't even believe it. But again,
00:32:33.360
I went on Google and I typed in event 201 and the first hit that came up was not a conspiracy
00:32:42.240
theory page or even Wikipedia was Johns Hopkins. And it was a description of event 201 sponsored by
00:32:49.920
Bill and Melinda Gates foundation on October 18th, 2019, the who's who in the virology vaccine world
00:33:01.600
had sort of a simulation, a war game simulation of a pandemic event. And it wasn't just a medical
00:33:08.080
simulation. It was a political simulation and the media simulation. And by the way, this was when
00:33:15.680
COVID-19 was already out of the, the genie was out of the bottle. I don't know the exact date that,
00:33:22.560
uh, has been accepted as the beginning of it, but October night, October 18th, 2019,
00:33:29.920
I think it's generally accepted that the virus was out and some people would have known it by then.
00:33:34.960
And event 201 was a war games where Bill Gates was up to his eyeballs. What do you know about event 201?
00:33:41.360
Do you think that they knew that COVID-19 was afoot and this wasn't actually just a hypothetical
00:33:50.720
scenario? This was okay guys, we've got about a month before this gets serious. Let's,
00:33:55.440
let's try and think this one through politically, militarily, economically. What the heck happened in
00:34:02.400
So, uh, one of the things you left out with that preamble is that there were two main sponsors of
00:34:11.040
event 201, which was held at a, uh, um, basically a think tank at Johns Hopkins that's known to be
00:34:20.160
closely affiliated with the CIA. The two sponsors were the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the
00:34:25.920
World Economic Forum. The, uh, uh, this is, uh, one of a series of war games that have been run for
00:34:36.960
decades. Uh, and, uh, uh, it is at a, at a, at a minimum, uh, event 201 was amazingly prescient.
00:34:47.920
Uh, were they, uh, what was the, the, the, were the participants there, uh, aware that the virus may
00:34:59.600
have entered the population in Wuhan, uh, with the military games that preceded that, or, uh, did the
00:35:08.640
virus enter the population in Wuhan in November? Uh, that's, all that timeline is still murky.
00:35:16.960
But, uh, uh, there's no question that event 201 pulled together a selected odd, a selected participant
00:35:26.720
list of people that largely had a bias towards, uh, um, more military or militarized, uh, responses
00:35:39.520
to, uh, a outbreak threat. And, uh, I argue that if you bring together, uh, if you're
00:35:46.800
going to do a war game planning exercise, you have to have a broad representation of the population,
00:35:53.920
but unfortunately our government has had a tendency, and this is pseudo government, this is
00:35:58.800
government plus these large NGOs, uh, has a tendency to bring together people that are, uh, kind of
00:36:07.200
insiders in the industry. Plus, for instance, in this case, the press people that have ties, for instance,
00:36:16.160
uh, in, um, uh, Council on Foreign Relations, uh, which, uh, most, many of the, uh, press people from CNN
00:36:28.400
and MSNBC are members of that, uh, and, uh, intelligence community people and defense community
00:36:36.000
people. And it's no surprise if you bring together a group of people that have a bias towards
00:36:41.520
authoritarian responses, that you're going to end up with a plan to respond to a public health emergency
00:36:47.920
that is very authoritarian. And it appears that the plan that was developed, whether it was developed
00:36:54.720
with awareness that that particular coronavirus had already entered, or that something akin to that
00:37:01.040
was highly likely, uh, um, certainly there was awareness that something like what we now call SARS-CoV-2
00:37:12.160
would, uh, originate and, and, uh, potentially sweep the world. Uh, and clearly there was, uh, research,
00:37:22.160
uh, multi-staged research going over many years to develop a novel coronavirus that was much more highly
00:37:29.040
infectious in humans. So, uh, I argue that what happened was in Event 201, they came up with a war game plan
00:37:37.680
that was very heavy-handed authoritarian based on three core assumptions. One was that we would have
00:37:45.920
a highly lethal, highly infectious coronavirus. That was false. This virus is nowhere near anything
00:37:53.920
close to the lethality, for instance, of Ebola. That we would have a effective and safe vaccine produced
00:38:02.000
rapidly. And at that point, the investments in the RNA vaccination technology were already maturing.
00:38:10.240
Moderna had been assembled with CIA money, et cetera.
00:38:15.920
And, uh, the third assumption was that there would be no drugs that would be effective in a timely
00:38:21.360
fashion against this agent, this type of hypothetical, hypothetical new coronavirus. And, um, we had,
00:38:32.480
you know, whatever the relationship is, it's lost in the midst of time. And I don't, you know,
00:38:37.520
I'm not privy to the information. I don't know if we'll ever get to the bottom of how this virus
00:38:43.280
entered the population intentionally or unintentionally.
00:38:46.000
But, um, it did. It was highly infectious. It swept through the entire globe, perhaps facilitated by
00:38:55.680
a failure of China to do lockdowns before the Chinese New Year, which is traditionally a time of
00:39:02.480
diaspora from Wuhan and China throughout the world. Um, and certainly facilitated the rapid transmission
00:39:09.760
globally. And, uh, the governments, particularly the Western governments, particularly the Five Eyes
00:39:17.280
nations, that's the intelligence alliance that ties together Great Britain, United States, Canada,
00:39:24.240
New Zealand, and Australia, um, implemented this very heavy handed authoritarian response that had been
00:39:32.400
planned in event 201. And the way I like to put it is that it's taught in every war college in the
00:39:39.280
world, I'm sure that, uh, your plans are only good until you encounter the enemy. And then you have to,
00:39:46.800
uh, re re-envision them. You have to re-plan based on the ground truth of what you're encountering.
00:39:54.160
And that was never done. So they, they had those three core assumptions. All of them were wrong.
00:40:00.960
The vaccine is not safe and effective. Uh, um, existing drugs could be used very effectively to treat this
00:40:08.640
virus. And this virus was nowhere near as lethal as was presumed based on the Chinese propaganda,
00:40:17.120
which was probably informed by what, you know, may well have been informed by event 201. It may have
00:40:22.000
been playing to the audience and telling them what the audience expected to hear. But, uh, there's no
00:40:28.720
question that these governments implemented this very heavy handed authoritarian plan in lockstep.
00:40:35.120
And as they did it, they also brought in aspects of the Chinese response, particularly the lockdown
00:40:43.200
strategies. And the Brownstone Institute has done a great job of tracking these citizen journalists,
00:40:50.320
the cascade of events that led to the wholesale importation of the, what was called the China
00:40:57.280
solution, the CCP strategy of lockdowns, masking, social distancing, et cetera. And in implementing
00:41:05.120
it in the Western nations, uh, although that was very different from what the plans had been
00:41:12.160
based on prior world health organization consensus and prior outbreak planning. So event 201 absolutely
00:41:20.080
happened. It is, uh, um, um, at a minimum, uh, rather odd that it, it was held at that point in time.
00:41:33.920
Uh, it, it does appear in retrospect that Mr. Gates is able to leverage the insider knowledge that he gains from
00:41:44.320
funding these types of war games to make strategic investments. And he did make by his own account,
00:41:51.840
huge amounts of money on his investments in the vaccine industry, including in the RNA vaccine industry,
00:41:58.480
which apparently according to his recent statements, he has sold all those assets.
00:42:05.760
And then shortly after selling off that stock came out with statements to the effect that the vaccines did
00:42:11.840
not perform in the way that was anticipated. Um, so there's a whole lot of evidence of work or profiteering,
00:42:20.240
um, and, uh, mismanagement, uh, based on these planning war games that were held. And then a failure to
00:42:30.160
think as I like to quote on art, the banality of evil, um, lies typically in the failure to think this is based
00:42:40.000
on her observations of Eichmann in Jerusalem. It's incredible that, uh, Bill Gates, when he was
00:42:45.680
deeply invested in the vaccines, uh, touted them as infallible. And as you say, um, once he was out of
00:42:53.760
the, uh, stocks, he spoke quite plainly and it, it almost sounded like, well, of course they're not
00:42:59.680
effective. Of course they don't work. Uh, why would you doubt like it, if he, he went from being a Fauci
00:43:05.760
style evangelist for them to sort of, uh, almost like he, he sent that down the memory hole. Oh,
00:43:11.600
I never said that. Like he was Robert Malone. Here's a clip of, uh, of Bill Gates just so matter
00:43:19.440
of factly, just so of course they don't work. Of course that's the problem. It, uh, it's, it's almost
00:43:24.560
like there's a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Here's Bill Gates disparaging the vaccines at moments earlier.
00:43:30.800
He was, uh, uh, saying we're a must do and the world must buy them and indemnify him for any, um,
00:43:38.880
product liability. By the way, take a listen. The current vaccines are not infection blocking.
00:43:44.240
Uh, they're not broad. So when new variants come up, you lose protection and they have very short
00:43:49.520
duration, uh, particularly in the people who matter, which are old people. And every one of those things
00:43:55.520
is, is fixable. Uh, in fact, doing that work is going to help vaccinology very, very broadly.
00:44:03.760
The idea of checking if people are vaccinated, you know, if you have breakthrough infections,
00:44:08.640
what's the point? I find it incredible that Bill Gates is as prominent, successful, influential,
00:44:14.800
and powerful as he is. Not the least of which is his involvement with Jeffrey Epstein, well-documented
00:44:23.840
even by the New York Times, uncontradicted reports say he met with Jeffrey Epstein more than a dozen
00:44:31.680
times, repeatedly met even after the truth was known about Epstein, kept meaning so much that his own
00:44:39.680
wife divorced him over that. And, and I, I mean, I don't know what went on in their family, but surely
00:44:45.280
uh, his wife would start by saying, please don't go, or you must not go, or I insist you don't go.
00:44:50.720
I mean, by the time any marital quarrel gets to the point where she divorces him over it,
00:44:56.080
that must have been ongoing for a long time and he must have been so insistent. Here's a clip
00:45:00.080
of Melinda Gates with some caution. Maybe there's some rules about what she can or can't say.
00:45:05.360
Um, just, you, you can feel the rage in this woman. Take a listen to Melinda Gates explaining
00:45:13.440
why she divorced Bill. You know, it was also widely reported that Bill had a friendship or business or
00:45:20.640
some kind of contact with Jeffrey Epstein and that you were not, uh, that that was very upsetting to
00:45:25.520
you. Did that play a role in the, in the divorce at all in this process? Yeah. As I said, it's not one
00:45:31.920
thing. It was many things, but I did not like, uh, that he'd had meetings with Jeffrey Epstein. No.
00:45:39.680
And you made that clear to him. I made that clear to him. I also met Jeffrey Epstein exactly one time.
00:45:46.240
Did you? Did you? Yes. Because I wanted to see who this man was. And, um, I regretted it from the
00:45:53.200
second I stepped in the door. He was abhorrent. He was evil personified. I had nightmares about it
00:46:00.320
afterwards. So, you know, my heart breaks for these young women because that's how I felt.
00:46:05.360
And here I'm an older woman. My God, I feel terrible for those young women. It's awful.
00:46:09.920
You felt that the moment you walked in. I didn't realize that. He was awful.
00:46:12.560
Yeah. And you shared that with Bill and he still continued to spend time with him?
00:46:17.840
Any of the questions remaining about what Bill's relationship there was, those are for Bill to
00:46:23.120
answer. Okay. But I made it very clear how I felt about him. I mean, that alone, I think, ought to
00:46:30.080
merit a giant asterisk by his name whenever people interview him. But I see him interviewed every day
00:46:35.760
saying the most absurd and dramatic, like he really is a Dr. Evil character, except for he looks like a
00:46:42.000
schlep. Like if he, if he looked more, um, malign, instead he's got these pudgy and he's got the,
00:46:49.120
the sweaters and he's got that goofy style. I think, I think there's something deeply wrong with
00:46:54.560
him. And I, I think that, I think he's the villain in this story. What do you, I mean,
00:46:58.960
listen, a lot of that's an aesthetic and emotional reaction. What do you make of Bill Gates in the fact
00:47:03.840
that he is not in any way defrocked after this? I mean, he's, he, I would say he has more prestige
00:47:12.880
now than ever, at least with the establishment. What do you, what do you make of Bill Gates?
00:47:16.160
Well, I think that we're seeing an example of the power of wealth. Uh, he has enormous personal
00:47:25.760
wealth and he's leveraged that in a variety of ways. He's made major investments, for instance,
00:47:32.000
in information, both in information technology companies, but, uh, at the level of basic journalism
00:47:39.600
school investments. He's been pushing the, uh, um, teaching of advocacy journalism that's been funded
00:47:48.880
by Bill and Linda Gates. And he's made major contributions to a wide number of media outlets.
00:47:58.160
So there's clear financial conflicts of interest. I, I had an interesting set of interviews with
00:48:06.560
Candace Owens a while ago in which she talked to me about Bill. And, uh, what came out of that was
00:48:14.080
my comment that, um, Mr. Gates may or may not have been a, uh, decent coder.
00:48:21.120
But he is absolutely the premier monopolist of the 20th and 21st century today. He's more successful
00:48:31.920
as a monopolist than any of the classic robber bearers. It is his core competency. Um, and he has pivoted
00:48:41.120
from monopolizing information technology, and particularly the desktop computer operating system
00:48:48.960
and all of the accessories to monopolizing world health. He's made massive investments
00:48:56.080
in the world health organization. I think he, he's not the top funder. He's one of the top two or three
00:49:02.800
basically, uh, put Tedros in power together with the CCP. He, he controls now most of the global public
00:49:13.440
health infrastructure through his various actions and investments. He controls much of the media.
00:49:21.440
Uh, he controls much of our political system through his investments as together with some others,
00:49:28.080
George Soros being a notable example. Uh, and so it's no surprise that he's surrounded by sycophants,
00:49:35.680
uh, including in the media who, uh, can see no evil. They're paid to see no evil. But, uh, whatever Mr. Gates
00:49:47.200
is and whatever he thinks he's doing, he has clearly managed to monopolize world health. And, uh, I was
00:49:55.280
speaking the other day off the record to, uh, a senior congressional investigator who made an observation
00:50:03.600
that relates to this very similar. I say the same thing. Every single rabbit hole, she goes down,
00:50:10.160
she sees Bill Gates at the end of it. And this is somebody who is involved in the, uh, investigations
00:50:20.080
into COVID and the origin of COVID on behalf of a U S Senator. So she's a very experienced prosecutor,
00:50:29.280
federal prosecutor. And she came to that conclusion herself as Mr. Gates seems to be behind almost
00:50:36.160
everything that's happened. Hmm. Well, listen, time flies. We didn't even have a chance to get
00:50:42.320
into the details of your testimony before the Texas Senate. We didn't talk about your substack. I've been
00:50:48.640
reading outstanding articles from you about the United Nations. Uh, you have a great explication of their,
00:50:55.360
uh, power and how their mission creep has given them even more power. And, and then a fascinating
00:51:01.840
study on transhumanism, which is connecting people with machines. I would encourage people to subscribe
00:51:07.920
at rwmalonemd.substack.com. Dr. Malone, it's been a pleasure to catch up with you. I know you've talked to
00:51:16.720
other members of our team before, but thank you for this heavy discussion. I learned about terrifying
00:51:21.760
things, including event 201 and the nature of the Wuhan lab. And, uh, I think more people have to know
00:51:27.360
the truth, even if it is quite unsettling. And I'm grateful that you're still fighting and speaking
00:51:32.480
truth, even though everyone from the Atlantic to the, the so-called fact checkers are trying to silence
00:51:41.520
you. I'm glad you have not been silenced and I'm glad you spent some time with us today. Thanks a lot. And
00:51:47.120
thanks for having me on and I look forward to in our next chat. Right on. What a pleasure. There you
00:51:51.920
have it. Dr. Robert Malone. Well, that's our show for today until next time on behalf of all of us here
00:51:59.360
at rebel world headquarters to you at home. Good night and keep fighting for freedom.