EZRA LEVANT ｜ Taking a different path： Hungary's stand for national identity
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 5 minutes
Summary
In this episode, Ezra Levant interviews the Executive Director of the Danube Institute, the English-language think tank that promotes Hungary's interests and the views of the government of the day, Viktor Orban. They talk about why Hungary is important.
Transcript
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Oh, hi, it's Ezra Levante. I am over in Budapest, Hungary, doing a series of videos called The Truth About Hungary.com.
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I'd encourage you to check out that website for all of them.
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Today's podcast is an interview I did with the executive director of the Danube Institute.
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By the way, if you want to see the video version of this podcast, go to rebelnewsplus.com.
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Click subscribe. It's eight bucks a month. You get the daily video version of my show.
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And, of course, we need that money to survive. Unlike the CBC, we don't get money from Trudeau. Never will.
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So we rely on your eight bucks a month. All right, here's today's podcast.
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Tonight, I'm in Budapest to ask, what's the truth about Hungary?
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It's July 20th, and this is The Ezra Levante Show.
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I've heard a lot of things about Hungary, but never firsthand.
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It's partly because the Hungarian language is so unusual.
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It has really no connection to English, whereas French, Spanish, Italian are all cousins of English, even German.
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And if you know English, you can pick up those other languages rather quickly.
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I find Hungarian to be impenetrable. It's just not related.
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And it's a small country, only 10 million people, so it's not a dominant force in the world.
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So what we hear about Hungary, we often hear through the filter of the media, which, of course, has its own agenda.
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I find that the media, and I think you'll probably agree with me, is globalist, is environmentalist,
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is critical Marxist on cultural issues like sexuality and gender identity.
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So a lot of the things that Hungary is doing as domestic and even foreign policy
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are at odds with the groupthink of the United Nations, the European Union, and the world press.
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For example, their approach to immigration and refugee status is very different
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from the open borders approach of other European countries like France and Germany.
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Also, Hungary believes in its Hungarian ethnic identity.
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In fact, rather than tearing down statues, they're rebuilding them,
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including ones that were destroyed in the Second World War and never rebuilt since.
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So there's a lot of interesting things about Hungary that we can't find out by reading
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the New York Times or the Globe and Mail or CNN.
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I'm in Hungary, and then I'm going down to Transylvania, a region in Romania that used to be part of Hungary,
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where there's a gathering of ethnic Hungarians.
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And if possible, I'll see if I can get a one-on-one with Viktor Orban,
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the prime minister himself, who's been re-elected four times, if I'm not mistaken.
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He's unpopular everywhere except in Hungary, and there's a reason for that.
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If you want to see all of our reports from Hungary,
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they're at a special website we put together called thetruthabouthungary.com.
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We crowdfunded our journey here, of course, as we always do.
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And if you want to chip in, feel free to do so at thetruthabouthungary.com.
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We're going to put all our stories from Hungary on that website.
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It's with the executive director of the Danube Institute,
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which is an English-language-focused think tank
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that is designed to promote Hungary's interests
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and, frankly, the views of the government of the day,
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conservative, national identity, things like that.
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So he's coming from a point of view, and so am I.
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We're working on a special project called thetruthabouthungary.com.
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Why would anyone in Canada or the United States care about it?
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I mean, mathematically, it's a fairly small country, just 10 million people.
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It's hard to understand because the Hungarian language is very different
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from the bundle of languages that we're used to in the West.
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English, Spanish, French, Italian, all very similar.
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There's not a large Hungarian expat community in the West.
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In Canada and the United States, there's a lot of Italian-Americans,
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Irish-Americans, who still have an affection for the home country.
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There are some Hungarians in the West, but there's very few.
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And why should people in the West study it and maybe learn from it?
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And why are there forces in the West that seem to hate Hungary almost irrationally?
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Well, that's one of the things we're going to look into during our visit here to Hungary.
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And one of the stops that we made, and I'm so glad we did, is the Danube Institute,
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which is a think tank designed to promote Hungary in the debate I've just discussed.
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And I'm delighted to spend some time right now with Isvan Kis,
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the executive director of the Danube Institute.
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You're in the Palace District, which has been completely rebuilt and renovated.
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Tell us a little bit about where we are in Budapest and what's going on,
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because I've really never seen anything like it.
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The scale of the renovation and the refurbishment of the national monuments,
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I think we're tearing down monuments in the West.
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Yes, well, I think it's a difference in attitudes towards our history.
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And I'm actually quite saddened about some of the things going on in the West
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that you're, I think, trying to destroy or at least ignore,
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So we're in the Castle District, which historically has been the seat of kings and the executive.
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And sadly, as most of Budapest, the Castle District was very heavily hit during the Second World War.
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So a lot of the original palaces, offices have been basically completely destroyed.
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And these never have been restored during the communist times, partly because of two reasons.
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One was they never really had enough resources.
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But the second one was actually ideological, because the communist leaders of the country
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wanted to show the Horthy regime and even the Austro-Hungarian empire as this very reactionary, backwards power.
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So they actually kind of tried to show the Castle District as a medieval palace.
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So they never completely rebuilt the palace, which was the seat of the Habsburgs when they were in Hungary.
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And also Governor Admiral Horthy during the two world, between the two world wars period, was also based in the palace.
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And they never wanted to rebuild some of these grand palaces and offices, because they wanted to show an image to the average populace
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that the castle was actually a medieval place, kind of hinting that these regimes were medieval and backwards.
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So they actually even dug up kind of a mock ruins at some of the former palaces.
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They added some mock medieval bastions as well.
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So there's this very strong ideological concept showing how backward that system was.
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Well, the current government is actually trying to restore some of the grandeur of the city coming from the, you know,
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Habsburg empire, but also from kind of this golden period of Hungary, which was the Austro-Hungarian empire.
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So they're actually rebuilding a lot of these former offices, palaces, and the building we're here now.
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It was actually a very nice home for one of the barons of Hungary, who was also a prime minister of Hungary for a time.
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And this building also got a direct bomb hit during the Second World War.
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Actually, 10 years ago, there was a ruin here, nothing here.
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And actually, the Central Bank of Hungary rebuilt this building.
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But in the end, they gave it to the government.
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And then the government actually gave it to a foundation, which we are part of the Botany Lajos Foundation,
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which is named after the first prime minister of Hungary.
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I think that when you only have 10 million Hungarians in the country, and a few million overseas,
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And one of the things I hear from Hungary is that they want to keep the ethnic nature of the country
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because there's no other place that's Hungarian.
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And I think there's other small countries like that, that if they don't fight to keep their flavor,
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I mean, I think that's what happens to small countries.
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I mean, in my country, Canada, the province of Ontario is larger than Hungary,
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How has the Viktor Orban administration addressed the issues that would come with dissipating?
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Like, I think reviving the history and reminding people the history is one way.
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And how is the government trying to get more Hungarians?
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Well, if you want to understand the Hungarian psyche, what you were saying is very important.
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So Hungary was always, well, during its history, sometimes was much bigger than it is today.
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But it always was relatively small compared to the Slavic countries in the neighborhood
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So if you look at some of the earliest examples of Hungarian literature,
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you were already very afraid of getting, you know, destroyed or basically assimilated by the Slavic or the German people of the region.
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So there's this constant fear of Hungarians that are unique language in the middle of Europe
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without any real language relatives in the region will just slowly disappear.
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And I think the government understood this Hungarian mentality.
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And that's one of the reasons why they are successful in the elections as well.
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And what they have been trying to do is kind of an interesting alternative to some of the ideologically driven ideas of the progressive left in Western Europe
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I think in Western Europe, there's this concept that it's two things, basically.
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One is that you cannot really do anything about a demographic situation.
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So because of several reasons, but people will not have more kids.
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And partly because of this, but also because it's good for your economy and all the other usual theories.
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Immigration is a better way to basically increase your population and maintain your society's welfare system.
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And I think our government choose a completely different path.
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They said no to this and they said that you can actually help your own people to have more kids.
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Because if you look at the literature, then actually a lot of even in Western Europe, even in very progressive countries like Sweden,
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They just, because of economic reasons, mostly, they just think that they cannot have more kids.
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And Fidesz, because of this, introduced several...
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Fidesz is the government party, yes, in Hungary.
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So we introduced several policies which would try to help people who are working to have more kids
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and kind of give economic benefits or at least cut back some of the disincentives to not to have kids.
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How are they encouraging Hungarians to have more babies?
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So one interesting policy is that actually if you have four kids as a woman, you will never have to pay personal income tax.
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But even as a man or even if you have one kid, two kids, three kids, there are several tax breaks.
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But I think what is really unique is what I mentioned, that actually women don't have to pay personal income tax if they have four kids or more.
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I mean, Hungary had a very disperative birth rate.
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So the average family would have maybe one kid.
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So there is an increase, which is still not good.
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But compared to 1.3, it's a significant growth.
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And it happened, as I said, in the past five, six, seven years.
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So we're hoping that in the long run, it's going to be much more successful.
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And as I said, some of these policies have been gradually introduced.
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So, for example, the personal income tax has only been introduced a couple of years ago.
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So we're hoping that this will improve even more.
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So actually, marriage is doubled, which I think is very important.
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Because if you look at a lot of the statistics, a lot of the research,
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babies born in normal families, marriages, have a much better life, are much happier.
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And also have really better expectations in life.
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So has the government done anything to encourage marriages?
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Actually, if you're married, you also get a tax break for two years.
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It's called First Marriage Allowance or something like that literally in English.
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And also, it's easier to get some of the family support programs if you're married.
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If you already have kids, then you can get it even if you're in a civil union.
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But for example, if you just promise to have two, three quid to get some of these benefits,
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because you can do that and you have 10 years to deliver on that promise,
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So there are effective policies in trying to encourage people to be married instead of being in civil unions.
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I'm just thinking the exact opposite was China's one-child policy for the longest time,
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You make a good point about the economics of it,
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because I think that a lot of women go into the workplace because they feel they need that extra dough.
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And by the time they do the math of child care, it just doesn't work.
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So the idea of being tax-free for life is incredible.
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But also, if you don't mind me chipping in here,
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it's also allowing women to stay at home with the kids for a longer period.
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For example, well, it depends on the salary you make,
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but for average people, for the first half year after the baby was born,
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you can stay at home on your gross, so not net, on your gross salary.
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And even afterwards, after about one and a half year of the kid,
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you still get a pretty good salary for staying at home.
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Does that come from the company or from the government?
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So it's actually a nice policy, and it allows a lot of women to stay at home.
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And also they try to introduce policies which would help women to work part-time,
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so four hours a day, 20 hours a week, policies like that.
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So companies now are actually encouraged to do that,
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and they can get tax benefits if they employ women part-time who have babies.
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So I think it's also coming into the economic side of the whole thing,
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it's allowing women to work a bit, have a bit more money,
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Moving from 1.3 to 1.6 kids per family in five or ten years,
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It's not yet 2.1 or whatever for replacing people, but that's a huge change.
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And I imagine it takes years for these things to kick in.
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I think there has to be a feeling of meaning and purpose.
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And that's why I was, when we were coming in here to see the refurbishment,
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and it's not just of the buildings, it's the meaning and the history of the buildings
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and the identity, and if Hungarians can feel that they're part of a national project.
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For example, Israel, which has a high birth rate.
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I think that country, even though it's under tremendous stress,
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it has a mission and an identity and a team spirit.
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And I feel like the policies that you talked about,
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you know, strengthening the family, reviving the history,
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controlling immigration, being wary of outside powers,
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I feel like that might give people an identity that gives them a confidence.
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I think a culture that's lost its confidence has lost its will to go on.
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Even on a personal level, kids not even knowing who they are,
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so they choose to be transgender for any flavor, for some meaning.
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There's a narcissism there, but they don't have other things to believe in.
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Well, Hungarians are usually a kind of pessimistic people because of our history.
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So if you would ask an average Hungarian, they like to complain.
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But I do think that they have a sense of purpose, yes.
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And I also believe that things are going a bit better than they did 10, 20 years ago.
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So, I mean, I myself, I remember Hungary 15 years ago under a socialist government.
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So if you would have looked at Budapest during that time, looked at the buildings, at public transport,
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So this kind of feeling that a lot of our history is being restored, that there's a lot of development coming into the country,
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But also what you said, I think it's interesting and very important to have a focus on education.
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So here we have kind of national curriculums, which the government also has a say in, and let's focus on history to understand.
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It's not propaganda, so we do understand the importance of a critical thinking towards your history.
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But it's also not what is happening in some places in America where basically you're saying that all your history was terrible.
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So we still have this sense that Hungary was always a freedom-loving country.
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We're very famous about our revolutions and freedom fights against the Russians, against the Habsburgs, fighting against the Turks.
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And actually some of the, how should I say, hostility we feel towards the European Union nowadays is a bit about this.
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So we don't like foreign powers to tell us how to do things.
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So that resonates very badly with the Hungarians.
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And again, I think that's partly a reason for the success of Warband because he understands that.
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He understands that Hungarians don't like the EU telling us how to run things.
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Because, I mean, we had the Soviets, we had the Habsburgs, we kind of fed up with that.
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And we're very happy that we're independent now and we would like to, you know, chart our own independent course.
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Just quickly on the transgender thing, and I know that might sound like a very strange question to ask,
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but I was in London recently and I didn't see very many British flags, the Union Jacket.
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I saw a few of them, but I saw hundreds of pride flags and the new transgender flag.
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I mean, other than during the coronation when they had the Union Jack.
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But in the days I've been in Budapest, I haven't seen any of that.
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And in flags and even in people, I haven't seen that sort of they-them gender activism in the West.
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And I understand Budapest would be the most liberal city in the country.
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Are your intellectual elites not part of that project?
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Has there been some official pushback in some way?
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I just, you know, I mean, I live in Toronto, which is a very transgender-oriented city too.
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And to come here and to see men who are masculine and women who are feminine,
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it's sort of a shocking change from where I'm from.
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I don't know if this is even a thing people talk about here.
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It's much less profound than it is in the West.
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I've been to London three weeks ago and I had the same experience you had.
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Although it was Pride Month, so I guess that perhaps in an average month you wouldn't have that.
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And I was in New York, which was pretty much the same last week, actually.
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I mean, we have Netflix, we have HBO and all these are spreading it.
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But there has been pushback from the government.
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One very important policy which we introduced and has been fighting against the European Union because they don't like it,
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and it made us fairly infamous, is the child protection law, which basically bans sexual propaganda in kindergartens and most of primary school.
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And while they've said this is anti-trans, anti-homosexual, I mean, it does ban activism in, you know, homosexual, transgender, exorcism, but it would ban, you know, heterosexual activism if you would have that as well.
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So we think that sexuality is not for kindergarten kids or, you know, small primary children.
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So over, let's say, 13 years old, of course, you have to have sexual education classes, that's fine.
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But, you know, if you're a six-year-old or eight-year-old, I don't think you need that.
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So there has been pushback and actually because of this, some of the children books which show transgenderism, homosexuality, they now have to put those books at the adult section.
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But there has been kind of a pushback and also we've been trying to kind of, well, ban is perhaps a strong word, but now legally it's very difficult to change your gender in Hungary.
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Even if you would do it, my knowledge is, I'm not sure now how it's going on with the European Union because they tried to find us about that, but I think it's still in effect.
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So even if you would change your gender, we have, you know, identity cards and it will still show your original gender assigned in birth.
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So you cannot really be a proper transsexual in this sense in Hungary currently because your ID card will still show your assigned gender from birth.
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So there has been actually significant pushback from the government, especially on the trans issue, less on the homosexual issue.
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But there has been, and actually, I mean, I like what you said, but if you would arrive a bit earlier, Saturday we had the gay pride.
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Well, protests or I'm not sure how to call it, but the kind of the festival in Budapest.
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So on Saturday we have seen a lot of homosexuals and transsexuals because each year you have that and it's not banned by the government.
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Although I think there's sometimes a bit excessive sexual content on these parades, but I mean, what can you do?
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And I'm not necessarily criticizing a particular orientation.
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I'm just saying that the ideological, total institutional capture by a political movement aimed at transitioning kids,
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I think that's very different from a regular pride parade.
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That's how it, I think, I think in the West, you're starting to see people pulling back from the LGBT because of this new focus on kids
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and focus on changing your gender, including through medication and through surgery.
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I just think that there's a, there's a qualitative difference between adults, gay pride parade.
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And yeah, I just think that's a huge difference.
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I think that's why the government introduced this child protection law because we kind of tried to draw a line.
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And I think that's, and I'm hoping that that is going to be the downfall of these movements
00:25:43.060
because I think if you look at, for example, how homosexuality has become accepted in the past 60 years,
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it was a quite different process than what, how the trans movement is acting now.
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They never said that if you don't want to have sex with a homosexual, you're homophobic.
00:26:01.060
So they kind of left out, I think, the private.
00:26:05.780
We have this very proud tradition, I think, in the West that you separate the public and the private.
00:26:10.420
And, you know, in your private sphere, as long as it's between two consenting adults, we don't care what you do really.
00:26:15.840
But I think the trans movement is now actually going to the bedroom.
00:26:19.360
So they're actually looking at your own sexual preferences.
00:26:22.240
They're looking at your kids, which, I mean, the communists tried to do that and the Nazis tried to do that.
00:26:27.540
But luckily, they tried to break the kids away from the family.
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In Hungary during the Soviet times, did they have a version of the young pioneers?
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And afterwards, of course, there was a blowback after the revolution itself.
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So I think one of the deals actually the leader made during that time was we will leave out the communist things from your private life.
00:27:01.980
So even the communists, after I realized that they cannot go after your private life because people will just rebel.
00:27:11.520
So especially in the Soviet Union, if you look at it, you had kind of movements about trying to turn the kids against parents.
00:27:19.280
You know, if your parents had something reactionary or, you know, religious, then you should report it.
00:27:25.420
But even, I think, in the communist societies, after a while, they realized that, I mean, people will not.
00:27:30.780
I mean, it's just I think in our Western mind, it's just so deeply in the separation of private and public.
00:27:40.440
And I'm hoping that this will be the downfall of this, because I think it's very dangerous when you go into the private and try to tell people what to do privately.
00:27:49.960
I was a libertarian for a time, especially because of that.
00:27:53.140
But even as a conservative, and I think that's very dangerous.
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So please leave my private life and my kids out of this.
00:28:04.920
I mean, it was just barely a decade after the end of the Second World War.
00:28:09.580
It was really the first major rebellion against Soviet domination.
00:28:15.720
A great number of Hungarians came to the West, including to Canada.
00:28:21.000
And what you're saying is that that at least caused the communists to temper themselves somewhat,
00:28:26.680
as opposed to maybe Romania, where I think they were very harsh.
00:28:33.600
Is that still an important part of the Hungarian political psychology, is standing up and long on?
00:28:40.500
That was sort of the Tiananmen Square moment of Hungary.
00:28:46.940
Are there communist parties running in elections today?
00:28:55.480
Is it socially acceptable to be a communist in Hungary in 2023?
00:29:01.120
It's much less acceptable than I think in the West.
00:29:04.140
So I think most people will not say that they're a communist.
00:29:06.700
There is a communist party and they run on the election, but they usually get 1% or even less.
00:29:11.980
And even the former communist party members, they actually evolved into the today.
00:29:20.040
I mean, today we have a socialist party and that is kind of the successor of the communist party.
00:29:25.520
But also the socialist party kind of break down after the 2010 election.
00:29:31.220
So there's now several parties which were actually part of the socialist party.
00:29:34.500
And some of them have still former communists in their leadership.
00:29:42.060
Actually, most of the communists are now very pro-European, which is funny and strange.
00:29:51.780
But they still have that dream of a global government.
00:29:54.480
Yes, but it's now not the Soviet Union and not the communist international.
00:29:58.040
Now it's the European Union and kind of the progressive international,
00:30:00.560
which is, I think, quite strange and perhaps telling.
00:30:05.760
Well, when I was, for example, studying in Edinburgh,
00:30:08.140
I would say 20, 30% of the students were very proudly communists,
00:30:11.340
which is a Hungarian never understood because hearing will be very negative.
00:30:19.300
And especially because, you know, under communism, that was taboo.
00:30:22.320
So before you mentioned that we talked before about the prime minister's,
00:30:28.160
Viktor Orban's speech during the fall of communism.
00:30:31.620
He was one of the first speeches where he referenced 56 and also said, you know,
00:30:38.640
But before that, for, you know, more than 30 years, you couldn't talk about the revolution.
00:30:43.280
It was, or if you talked about it, it was this reactionary, you know,
00:30:47.680
not a proper revolution, but something which was a fascist coup.
00:30:51.580
If you talked about it in other terms, you could get into jail or get fined.
00:30:55.500
So I think because it was a taboo for so long, it's now still actually much more powerful
00:31:01.140
than it would be if it wouldn't have been a taboo for 30 years under communism.
00:31:06.320
Let's show a clip of that, because if I understand it correctly, this was the moment,
00:31:10.960
the speech that made Viktor Orban a political figure.
00:31:14.540
If I understand it, he was a young, almost student leader.
00:31:18.560
And this was when the Berlin Wall was falling, when the Soviet Empire was crumbling,
00:31:25.120
but they were still running things here in Hungary.
00:31:28.060
And there were still Russian troops in Hungary.
00:31:30.280
So set up this clip a little bit, and we'll play a little bit just to show our viewers
00:31:40.440
Well, I think it basically shocked people that somebody would say these words,
00:31:45.160
especially Russians go home, because as I said, it was still a big Russian force in Hungary.
00:32:02.860
And if you look at actually how the kind of the deals between the opposition and the government
00:32:10.800
So most of the opposition leaders thought that it will still take years, perhaps a decade,
00:32:18.180
And then you have this young guy saying Russians go home.
00:32:21.360
And that really shocked people, and it really made him a...
00:32:27.340
Under the law, he could have been arrested as a counter-revolutionary.
00:32:31.260
He could have been beaten by the police, detained, perhaps even thrown into jail.
00:32:39.760
The regime was trying to increase its Hungarian bona fides by reburying a Hungarian hero.
00:32:48.140
They were trying to say, no, we're actually with you, the people.
00:32:52.720
They were trying to kind of show 56 in a different light and kind of acknowledge some
00:33:02.200
But I mean, there was a huge support towards Orbán and towards...
00:33:07.580
I mean, I think most of the communist leaders realized that there's a sentiment in the Hungarian
00:33:11.420
population that we have to chart our own way and the Russians really have to go home.
00:33:16.360
And that's why there was no real backlash in the end, because they realized that the people
00:34:00.280
The Blackinated government, those who play a Rogán and estar�� clean rag on plan first on this country democracy,
00:34:08.620
Alex found two names, at the national MSC and www.TARSAI-KOPORSÓhehe.
00:34:12.740
Mi azokat az államférfiakat tiszteljük bennük, akik azonosultak a magyar társadalom akaratával, akik, hogy ezt megtehessék, képesek voltak leszámolni szent, kommunista tabuikkal, azaz az orosz birodalom feltétlen szolgálatával és a párt diktatúrájával.
00:34:33.460
Ők azok az államférfiak számunkra, akik az akasztófa árnyékában sem vállalták, hogy a társadalmat megtizedelő gyilkosokkal egysorba álljanak, akik életük árán sem tagadták meg azt a nemzetet, amely elfogadta őket és bizalmát beléjük helyezte.
00:34:53.360
Mi az ő sorsukból tanultuk meg, hogy a demokrácia és a kommunizmus összeegyeztethetetlen.
00:34:59.780
Jól tudjuk, a forradalom és a megtorlások áldozatainak többsége korunkbeli magunkfajta fiatal volt.
00:35:10.540
De nem pusztán ezért érezzük magunkénak a hatodik koporsó.
00:35:14.840
Mind a mai napig 1956 volt nemzetünk utolsó esélye, hogy a nyugati fejlődés útjára lépve gazdasági jólétet teremtsen.
00:35:24.840
A ma válunkra nehezedő csőttömeg egyenes következménye annak, hogy vérbe folytották forradalmunkat és visszakényszerítettek bennünket abba az ázsiai zsátutcába, amelyből most újra megpróbálunk kiutat találni.
00:35:40.180
Valójában akkor 1956-ban vette el tőlünk mai fiataloktól jövőnket a Magyar Szocialista Munkáspár.
00:35:49.560
Ezért a hatodik koporsóban nem csupán egy legyűkolt fiatal, hanem a mi elkövetkezendő húsz vagy ki tudja hány évünk is ott fekszik.
00:36:12.780
Barátaim, mi fiatalok sok mindent nem értünk, ami talán természetes az idősebb generációk számára.
00:36:23.240
Mi értetlenül állunk azelőtt, hogy a forradalmat és annak miniszterelnökét nemrég még kórusban gyalázók, ma váratlanul ráébrednek, hogy ők Nagy Imre reformpolitikájának folytatói.
00:36:34.780
Azt sem értük, hogy azok a párt és állami vezetők, akik elrendelték, hogy bennünket a forradalmat meghamisító tankönyvekből oktassanak, ma szinte tülekednek, hogy mint egy szerencsehozó talizmánként megérinthessék ezeket a koporsokat.
00:37:04.780
Mi úgy véjük, nem tartozunk hálával azért, hogy 31 év után eltemethetjük halottainkat.
00:37:12.400
Nem jár senkinek köszönet azért, mert ma már működhetnek politikai fervezeteink.
00:37:18.740
A magyar politikai vezetésnek nem érdeme, hogy a demokráciát és szabad választásokat követelőkkel szemben,
00:37:24.900
bár fegyvere is újján átogva ezt megtehetné, nem lép fel Lípengéhez, Polpotéhoz, Jaruzelszkéhoz, vagy éppen Rákoséhoz hasonló módszerekkel.
00:37:42.920
Ma, 33 évvel a magyar forradalom, és 31 évvel az utolsó felelős magyar miniszterelnök kivégzése után
00:37:53.320
esélyünk van arra, hogy békés úton érjük el mindazt, amit az 56-os forradalmárok véres harcokban,
00:38:00.740
ha csak néhány napra is, de megszereztek a nemzet számára.
00:38:03.920
Ha hiszünk, a magunk erejében képesek vagyunk tégedvetni a kommunista diktatúrának,
00:38:08.920
ha elég eltökéltek vagyunk, rászoríthatjuk az uralkodó pártot, hogy alávesse magát a szabad választásoknak,
00:38:15.920
ha nem tévesztük szem elől 56 eszméit, olyan kormányt választhatunk magunknak,
00:38:20.920
amely azonnali tárgyalásukat kezd az orosz szapatok kivonásának haladéktalan megkezdéséről.
00:38:33.920
Ha van bennünk elég mert, hogy mindezt akarjuk, akkor, de csak akkor beteljesíthetjük forradalmunk akaratát.
00:38:45.920
Senki sem hiheti, hogy a pártállam magától fog megváltozni.
00:38:50.920
Emlékezzetek, 1956. október 6-án Rajk László Temetésének napján a párt napi lapja, a Szabadnép Öles Betükkel Hírlete címlapján soha többé.
00:39:03.920
Csak három év telt el és a kommunista párt AVH-s legényeivel vékés, fegyvertelen tüntetők közé lövetett.
00:39:11.920
Két év sem telt el a soha többé óta, és az MSZMT Rajkéhoz hasonló koncepciós perekben ítélte halára ártatlanok százait, közöttük saját eltársait.
00:39:22.920
Ezért nem érhetjük be a kommunista politikusok semmire sem kötelező ígéreteivel.
00:39:28.920
Nekünk azt kell elérnünk, hogy az uralkodó párt, ha akar se tudjon erőszakot alkalmazni ellenünk.
00:39:35.920
Nincs más mód, hogy elkerüljük az újabb koporsókat, a maihoz hasonló megkésett temetéseket.
00:39:54.920
Nagy Imre, Gimes Miklós, Losonci Géza, Maléter Pál, Szilágyi József, és a néptelen százak a magyar függetlenség és szabadságért áldozták életüket.
00:40:07.920
A magyar fiatalok, akik előtt ezek az eszmék még ma is érhetetlenek, meghajtják fejüket emléketek előtt.
00:40:41.760
Soros. And everything you've described to me today tells me why George Soros hates Victor Orban.
00:40:49.680
Orban is for limited regulated immigration, not mass immigration. He's for an ethnic national
00:40:56.040
identity. He's not a globalist like Soros. He's opposed to cultural Marxism in the form of
00:41:02.560
transgenderism. He is skeptical of global governments like the European Union. Of course
00:41:09.100
Soros hates him. But that final comparison is that when it came to resisting tyranny,
00:41:15.940
Orban stood up in a country where there were still Soviet tanks and said, Russians go home.
00:41:22.300
Whereas Soros, and he was only a teenager at the time, but he secretly collaborated. He went around
00:41:29.120
with the Nazis. And I'm not blaming a teenager for pretending he was a Gentile and hanging out
00:41:36.660
with a Nazi officer who was expropriating. I'm just saying there were two paths. One was a path
00:41:42.780
of cowardice and opportunity that George Soros took. And the other was a path of I'm going to speak truth
00:41:47.980
to power that Victor Orban took. It is no surprise to me that Soros hates Orban so viscerally. How did
00:41:55.180
Orban win that battle? Because Hungary was sort of Soros's home turf. He's Hungarian. He's got so much
00:42:04.080
money. It can really sway things here in Hungary. How on earth did Victor Orban and his Fidesz party
00:42:09.720
possibly beat George Soros and his billions? How did that happen?
00:42:15.400
Well, it was a long process. But also, it's funny what you said, because I mean, in the 80s,
00:42:20.980
Soros played a much more positive role in Hungary. At least we still think that. So he did support some
00:42:26.300
of the opposition movement. Orban actually attended Oxford on a scholarship from Soros.
00:42:32.460
So a lot of the opposition leaders got fellowships from him. So I didn't know this story about him
00:42:38.360
collaborating. He was a teenager. But he, I mean, here, let's play a clip from 60 Minutes.
00:42:46.060
He, on his bicycle, he delivered notices to the Jews to report to the train stations. And then his
00:42:52.780
father basically seconded him. He pretended he was a nephew or something of a Nazi officer who was
00:43:00.000
expropriating Jewish property. His father told him to do that to survive. And I'm not blaming a
00:43:06.660
teenager for doing what his dad said. Well, surviving, yeah. Yeah. Here, let's, I want to show our viewers
00:43:11.180
who may not have seen this. Here's the clip of when Steve Croft of 60 Minutes asked Soros about his role
00:43:21.380
You're a Hungarian Jew who escaped the Holocaust by posing as a Christian. Right. And you watched
00:43:34.480
lots of people get shipped off to the death camps. Right. I was 14 years old. And I would say that
00:43:42.200
that's when my character was made. My understanding is, is that you went out with this protector of
00:43:47.780
yours who swore that you were his adopted God's son. Yes. Yes. Went out, in fact, and helped in the
00:43:55.720
confiscation of property from the Jews. That's right. Yes. I mean, that's, that sounds like an
00:44:02.260
experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it
00:44:10.180
difficult? Not, not, not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child, you don't, you don't see the connection.
00:44:22.020
But it was, it created no, no problem at all. No feeling of guilt. No. That if I weren't there,
00:44:30.420
of course, I wasn't doing it. But somebody else would, would, would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the,
00:44:36.620
whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator. The property was being taken away.
00:44:42.480
So I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt.
00:44:48.700
Are you religious? No. Do you believe in God? No. I don't feel guilty because I'm engaged in an
00:44:57.880
amoral activity, which is not meant to have anything to do with guilt. I just, thanks. I just wanted to
00:45:03.540
play that clip again to remind people. So you're saying Soros was actually helping the good guys
00:45:08.760
in the eighties. That's interesting to hear. Yeah. We have this feeling that he played a more,
00:45:13.580
how should I say, beneficial role, which later turned to what you're saying to, I think there
00:45:20.060
was this difference. So I think Soros feels personally betrayed a bit by Orban because he saw him as a
00:45:27.020
protégé, but Orban said no to some of these progressive policies. So when it turned to,
00:45:32.360
you know, being in government and adapting some of the policies Soros would have liked,
00:45:38.960
Orban definitely charted a different path. So I think it's a very complex relation they have.
00:45:44.400
But, you know, the first Orban government, which was a coalition government,
00:45:48.020
in power from 1989 to 2002, so four years, and they lost the 2002 elections. It was a very close
00:45:57.500
election. But in the end, they lost. And I think that was crucial to understand how Fidesz thinks now,
00:46:05.660
because they started, they realized that without proper media support, without proper support in the
00:46:13.160
countryside, and, you know, people, party organizations in the countryside, they will not be able to be in
00:46:17.720
elections. And they started to build this up. They started their media organizations. They started
00:46:24.400
kind of a building of local offices in the countryside. And of course, the economic crisis, and also the
00:46:32.240
kind of the gross mismanagement of the Socialist Party, which they were doing in the 2000s, helped,
00:46:36.800
because Fidesz managed to get a two-thirds majority in the parliament in 2010, which was a very
00:46:45.440
extraordinary support from the people. But since then, they have been managed to reproduce that in
00:46:51.820
each of the elections. And it shows people like what he's doing. But especially after 2010, they really
00:46:58.360
focused on even more support of kind of conservative civil society, even more support of conservative
00:47:06.360
media. So, they really built up kind of an opposition or kind of a counterbalance to some of these
00:47:13.080
progressive policies. So, unlike in America, or I guess it's the same in Canada, it's not like 90% of
00:47:21.040
the media is globalist progressive. Here, it's 60-40, 50-50. I'm not sure about that.
00:47:27.080
Yeah. So, we have actually a significant counterbalance to some of the progressive medias. And that's why they
00:47:33.940
hate him. So, if you would look at some of the New York Times or other narratives about Hungary,
00:47:38.440
they would say that Hungary, you know, they would say it's actually the reverse. So,
00:47:43.420
Orbán has all the media and it's controlling everything, which is not true. I mean, actually,
00:47:48.880
that's true in America or Canada, that the progressives are ruling all the media and there's
00:47:53.080
hardly any outside voice. Here, it's basically, I would say, almost 50-50. But they hate that because,
00:47:59.800
you know, people can see the other narratives quite easily. So, I think, I mean, they needed this
00:48:08.220
eight years in opposition to kind of build themselves up. They needed some luck with the
00:48:13.360
Socialist Party being so terrible. But afterwards, after they came into power at a second time in 2010,
00:48:20.380
they really cleverly built on this support and kind of organized effective civil society
00:48:28.640
and media opposition counterbalance to some of these policies. And that's why you have a flourishing
00:48:35.320
think tank scene in Hungary. That's why you have flourishing right-wing media in Hungary now.
00:48:41.080
Hmm. And I heard that the U.S. just approved $25 million to set up independent media in Hungary,
00:48:49.420
which, I mean, it's pretty obvious what that means. That means anti-Orban media. I was shocked
00:48:54.500
to hear this. I just heard it and I haven't had a chance to delve into it. Did that happen? And is that
00:49:00.440
Joe Biden's administration really saying, we're going to dig up your backyard? I mean, that's shocking to
00:49:06.720
me. They would never do that in, say, Ukraine. They would never do that in...
00:49:15.060
Yeah. Yeah. It's astounding to me. Did that happen?
00:49:20.060
And what's the reaction? I mean, imagine if the reverse was true. Imagine if Orban
00:49:24.820
sent $25 million. But actually, for a country of 10 million people, $25 million is an astonishing
00:49:32.060
amount. You would have to be 30 times more money to have the same impact in the United
00:49:37.020
States, because the United States is 30 times bigger.
00:49:38.780
But imagine, well, if, let's say, Russia would do that with any country.
00:49:42.220
Or Iran or China. I mean, that would be huge uproar.
00:49:45.660
Well, I mean, just to math on that, that would be like almost a billion dollars in America to
00:49:52.140
have anti-Biden media. That would be a diplomatic incident.
00:49:58.480
Well, we feel that a huge betrayal. I mean, this is an ally. We are a NATO country. America should
00:50:06.960
be our friend. And it's just, you know, doing something like that is a huge betrayal. And I
00:50:13.600
think it's a terrible move. But to make matters even worse, it's... Well, actually, we had a kind
00:50:20.720
of a coalition of opposition parties running against Fidesz. And the leader of that is quite outspoken.
00:50:25.840
He's a bit like Trump in this sense that he will say things which a lot of people will not,
00:50:32.720
but he's in a good way. And actually, he went into one of the radios and he acknowledged that
00:50:39.280
they got about $10 million from America for the election.
00:50:47.360
Yeah. But I mean, imagine, I mean, if this would happen in America, that Hungary would be giving
00:50:55.600
And how did Hungarians react? Like that is not a...
00:50:59.120
Well, they feel that this person is basically a spy or is betraying Hungary and should be in jail.
00:51:04.160
And was this before the last election that this came out?
00:51:06.160
No, it is after the election. So... And actually, there's some talk about perhaps
00:51:11.920
prosecuting this person because this technically is illegal. And also, it now turns out that the
00:51:17.840
opposition mayor in 2019 might have got, again, a bit more than a million dollars from American
00:51:27.040
It's one thing to get money from American donors. And that may be illegal. And you've got to follow
00:51:30.960
the law. But when the US government itself is funding people that take...
00:51:37.200
I'm sorry. So that was... Technically, it was donors. So we don't know who gave the money.
00:51:41.280
But it's kind of... It seems that it was only one or two people, which again, is quite...
00:51:46.080
Well, I think we can guess who the one or two people is that's giving millions of dollars in Hungary.
00:51:52.560
Well, how is the relationship between Hungary and America, UK? Canada is not really relevant,
00:52:01.760
I don't think here, even though I wish it were. Hungary has been a NATO ally for almost 25 years.
00:52:09.440
Hungary has a free market, or at least close to a free market. It feels Western, walking around the
00:52:17.840
city. I feel more like Europe than Asia or Central Asia. It feels modern, not ultra-modern, but modern.
00:52:33.360
Is Orban facing the West or the East more? And is he being pushed away by the West?
00:52:38.880
Well, I think he's trying. I mean, we're a Western country, and I think most Hungarians feel that,
00:52:45.360
but with proud roots from the East. So according to our history, Hungarians came from somewhere from
00:52:51.280
Siberia or the steps. And a bit more than a thousand years ago, we settled in the Carpathian Basin and
00:52:58.240
built a state. And St. Stephen embraced Christianity. And since a thousand years, we've been this proud
00:53:04.800
Christian Western power. Sometimes sadly cut off from Western development by the Ottomans, by the
00:53:11.200
Soviets, but still there's this sense that we're a Western country. But besides that, I think Orban has
00:53:16.960
been trying as kind of a policy, as a small state, to have fairly good relations with other powers in
00:53:23.600
the world. And of course, the most infamous was Russia and China. But that's not just these countries.
00:53:30.240
I mean, this got a lot of attention from Western media. But actually, South Korea was one of the biggest
00:53:35.520
investors for years in Hungary. So it was kind of a general global opening that, of course, we are
00:53:40.560
EU members, we're NATO members, we're a part of an alliance, but we should, you know, at least economically
00:53:46.000
have fairly good relations with East Asia, with Africa, with Arabic countries and others. So there is
00:53:52.960
generally this concept that we should have good relations with them. But of course, as I said, there's this
00:53:58.640
strong sense that we're a NATO member and we should, you know, we actually will reach the 2% GDP,
00:54:06.800
you know, for military next year. So we're trying to be good NATO.
00:54:13.600
Yeah, but also the Ukrainian war was kind of a wake up call.
00:54:17.120
but going back to what you originally asked that we do feel that, I mean, I'm very much a transatlantist.
00:54:23.840
And I think our think tank is bad. But it is increasingly being difficult to be that here
00:54:28.800
because of all the bad things we're getting from the current American government and Obama wasn't
00:54:33.760
that much better. So what we feel from America is that they only care about transgender rights,
00:54:39.600
social issues. Now, of course, there's a good excuse with the war that we're not doing enough in Ukraine.
00:54:44.560
How about global warming? Is that a big deal here in Hungary? In Canada, that's all you hear about.
00:54:50.000
In the UK too, net zero, carbon capture, green energy. Is any of that?
00:54:55.840
It's not as bad as it's there. And actually, the government here tried to embrace some parts
00:55:01.840
of it as a conservative government. So they do say that as conservatives and Christians,
00:55:06.320
we do have a responsibility towards the environment. So they did try to do some,
00:55:12.240
which I think was actually okay. So I think as a conservative, you know, being against...
00:55:17.760
Do they have a carbon tax? Are they saying outlawed fossil fuels?
00:55:23.600
No, the craziness is not happening. It's more like we have to protect some of the environment.
00:55:29.760
And, you know, besides fossil fuels, we're happy to support solar panels and some of the, you know,
00:55:35.600
alternative energy sources. So there is some form of that that we should embrace some parts of it,
00:55:41.280
but not go full crazy on the net zero things and others. So, and I think it's been fairly,
00:55:47.520
of course, you have some young people who are protesting sometimes about it, but it's usually
00:55:50.800
like 100 people or something. So it is happening. And a lot of young people kind of
00:55:56.880
sympathize with that, but it's, for the time being, hasn't been as, it's a bit like the transsexual
00:56:01.520
movement that you have already kind of elements of it. But actually, I think that was much more,
00:56:06.160
much stronger than the climate change movement here. I interrupted you. You said that this is
00:56:10.640
bundle of ideas from the West, transgenderism, open borders, et cetera. And that's making it
00:56:15.440
difficult for Hungary to have a warm transatlantic friendship. How has the Russian interdiction,
00:56:24.160
the invasion of Ukraine changed things? Because of course, Hungary is a NATO ally. But I see
00:56:31.120
in English on Twitter, Viktor Orban tweeting calls for peace, which, I mean, who wouldn't be for peace?
00:56:40.080
Well, I see a lot of people in the West saying, this is outrageous. If you're for peace, you're for
00:56:45.200
Putin. Yeah. So where is Hungary on the war in Ukraine? On the side of peace. And it hasn't been
00:56:52.400
very popular, not even in the region, sadly. Has Ukraine, sorry, has Hungary given any weapons or
00:56:59.680
training to Ukraine? Or any money? Money, yes. And a lot of support. According to my knowledge,
00:57:06.880
not actual weapons. You might have sent some ammunition, but I'm not 100%. But money and a
00:57:13.120
lot of humanitarian support. Are there any refugees from Ukraine who have come to Hungary? Yes.
00:57:19.600
They mostly use Hungary as a transit country. So most of them actually just go. But there are
00:57:24.240
some of them here. And when they were coming, we gave them all the support. So we set up all the
00:57:28.320
centers. We really welcomed them in very warm minds and hearts. And actually, they were grateful for
00:57:35.920
that. So sometimes they would acknowledge that how the Hungarians were very gracious, accepting all the
00:57:41.040
migrants, helping them and also sending these things. But of course, they always say that they're
00:57:46.480
not sending any weapons and they're not giving enough support. But as I said, that's not true. I mean,
00:57:52.880
I would say that we're doing 80%, 90% the same Poland is doing. We're just not sending actual weapons.
00:57:58.480
And I mean, honestly, we don't really have anything to send because we actually now,
00:58:05.920
as I said, we are reaching the 2% GDP criteria. We are reshuffling our military. So the socialist
00:58:11.840
government basically destroyed our military. They sent some of our last tanks to Iraq during the
00:58:17.200
the training of the Iraqi army after the fall of Saddam Hussein. So we don't really have that much
00:58:26.080
equipment. So we got rid of the communists, but we are still getting the new American and German
00:58:31.120
equipment to kind of reorganize and have a modern army and not the former Soviet army. So we don't
00:58:36.720
really, we wouldn't really have anything to send, even if we wanted to. But I think there's this idea that
00:58:42.160
we should try to somehow, you know, make these two countries sit down and, you know, achieve some
00:58:50.240
form of peace because it's, it's for Hungary, because it's a neighboring country. It's very bad
00:58:54.960
economically. I mean, actually, ethnic Hungarians are living in Ukraine, who are fighting in the war
00:59:01.200
on the side of Ukraine, who are dying. So actually, Hungarians are dying in this conflict, which a lot of
00:59:06.000
people don't know. So we really have, you know, skin in the game. And that's why we would like
00:59:12.080
to have a peaceful resolution to this as soon as possible. Other than calling for peace, has
00:59:18.000
Ukraine been involved in any attempts to have peace talks? I know that there were some meetings that
00:59:23.360
Israel was involved in Turkey. Is Hungary involved with that? Or is it just not really in the action on
00:59:29.200
that? We try to do our best. And we have very good relations with both Turkey and Israel, actually,
00:59:33.680
as a country. But I don't know about how these are going. And my understanding is that, I mean,
00:59:40.320
neither the Ukrainians nor the Russians are very cooperative in these talks.
00:59:44.880
Well, things are pretty dire. Well, listen, you've been very generous with your time. I guess I have
00:59:50.000
one last question for you. I think that the story of Hungary, there's a lot of stories about it. And
00:59:57.360
there's a lot of great men. We're in a room with an extraordinary looking gentleman on the wall.
01:00:03.680
I mean, this country... That's Lajos Botanyi, our first prime minister. He was actually martyred by
01:00:09.120
the Habsburgs. So they shot him after the revolution we had against the Habsburgs. And what year was that in?
01:00:14.960
That was, well, I'm not sure when they executed. I think it's 1849. But the revolution was 1848-49.
01:00:22.240
I mean, this place is rich in history. We didn't even talk about the Turkish invasions and the battle. I
01:00:28.800
mean, there's so much here. This is a country of momentous people, indispensable men, you could say.
01:00:38.000
And that's my last question for you. As an outsider, and I acknowledge that my knowledge is
01:00:45.120
pretty shallow. It seems to me a lot of things hang on Viktor Orban himself. From that stirring speech
01:00:54.080
he gave almost 40 years ago, to his leadership of the party, to the building of civil society,
01:01:05.200
the NGOs, the think tanks, the media, the organization. But he's not going to live forever.
01:01:11.600
He might lose an election one day. What would Hungary look like when Orban is gone? Whether
01:01:22.320
that's in four years, eight years, or tomorrow. Is there a group of people who could fill that
01:01:30.880
leadership void? Or would things fall to a globalist socialist who would undo the last dozen years? Because
01:01:40.080
you can smash things pretty quickly. And I feel like Hungary has been rebuilt not just from
01:01:48.880
the Soviet occupation, but from the socialist interregnum. And I like how it looks and how it feels.
01:01:56.080
But is it dependent on that one man? Well, that's a difficult question. I'm hopeful on one hand,
01:02:03.440
because I think we did manage to build a quite strong conservative civil society and think tanks,
01:02:10.240
which I think most of them would actually survive a government change and could be active
01:02:16.080
under a socialist government, let's say. I currently don't see a person who could feel
01:02:22.880
Orban's shoes. We have, you know, good politicians, but I mean, as a statesman-like person like Orban,
01:02:29.920
I just don't see a person like that currently, which doesn't mean there is not a person like that.
01:02:35.840
I'm hoping that somebody will turn up or is already there, just we don't see that person as much.
01:02:41.280
We will certainly be in a much more difficult situation because, as I said, I mean, the first
01:02:46.720
Orban government, the coalition government, our conservative movement was much more fragmented
01:02:51.760
before Orban came in. And you needed this powerful personality to kind of bring together everyone,
01:02:56.640
from the Christian Democrats to the liberal conservative to the national conservatives.
01:03:01.760
So it will be difficult, but I see this glimmer of hope that we did manage to build this very powerful
01:03:11.200
civil society. And, you know, it took 30 years. I mean, because at the fall of communism,
01:03:15.520
there was no civil society. I mean, there were some, you know, former communist things,
01:03:19.120
but certainly no conservative or right-wing civil society. So it's, I think, a huge accomplishment.
01:03:25.840
But on the other hand, if you look at countries like Ireland, which, you know, 30 years ago was
01:03:29.920
very conservative, and now it's quite opposite. I mean, countries can change very rapidly. So
01:03:35.600
because of that, I'm also a bit fearful of what will happen if we will not have Orban,
01:03:40.960
or we will have even four or, you know, eight years of progressive governments. Because, I mean,
01:03:46.480
they can change public thinking and things quite rapidly. So, yeah, I'm kind of mixed in this regard.
01:03:55.040
Well, listen, I wish you good luck. And I get the feeling that the Danube Institute is an important
01:03:59.600
part of keeping Hungary on the right path. Great to spend some time with you. Thank you very much.
01:04:04.240
It's a pleasure. Right on. Well, there you have it, a feature interview with Isran Kis,
01:04:07.920
the executive director of the Danube Institute. For all of our special reports during our visit to
01:04:13.280
Hungary, go to thetruthabouthungary.com. And if you like our work, feel free to chip in. Of course,
01:04:19.920
we take no government money from any government, and we rely on you, our viewers. So if you feel
01:04:25.600
compelled to support our citizen journalism, you can do that right there on the same webpage,
01:04:37.520
Well, what do you think of that? Send me an email to ezra at rebelnews.com. And if you want more,
01:04:42.320
go to thetruthabouthungary.com. Our trip is going to take a turn for the interesting.
01:04:47.120
Tomorrow, we're actually going to Romania, an ethnic Hungarian region called Transylvania,
01:04:53.440
and we'll have more reports from there. We'll try and have a one-on-one with the Prime Minister,
01:04:57.200
Victor Orban. Until next time, on behalf of all of us at Rebel News, around the world,
01:05:02.880
to you at home, good night, and keep fighting for freedom.