FAKE NEWS： Is Trump really blocking the sale of face masks to Canada？
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Summary
Donald Trump really is blocking the sale of face masks to Canada. I ll give you one guess who's really banning face masks exports to Canada, and why. That's today's podcast, from Ezra Levant's Rebel News Plus podcast.
Transcript
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Hello, my Rebels. Perhaps you saw the terrible news. Donald Trump was banning shipments of
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critically necessary face masks to Canada. Yeah, I'm not sure if you saw the corrections to that.
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And I'm not sure if you saw who's really banning face mask exports to Canada. I'll give you one
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guess. That's today's podcast. Before I get to it, let me invite you to become a subscriber to
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Rebel News Plus. It's eight bucks a month. You get the video version of this show. Go to
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rebelnews.com and get your subscription there. I'd appreciate it. It helps keep us alive. Here's
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today's podcast. Tonight, is Donald Trump really
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blocking the sale of face masks to Canada. It's April 6th, and this is the Ezra Levant Show.
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Why should others go to jail when you're a biggest carbon consumer I know?
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There's 8,500 customers here, and you won't give them an answer.
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The only thing I have to say to the government about why I publish it is because it's my bloody
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I have two pieces of news to show you. One is from the United States. As you have surely heard,
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U.S. President Donald Trump has personally interfered with Canada's supply of face masks.
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It's outrageous. And isn't it just like Donald Trump? The media party reported it,
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and you know they are always accurate and fair when it comes to Trump. So within hours of these
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reports, it was a unanimous chorus of condemnation of Trump and his anti-Canada bigotry. Here's Doug
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And I just can't stress how disappointed I am with President Trump for making this decision.
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I understand. He's thinking I've got to take care of my own people, but we're connected.
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But even in saying that, I'm not going to rely on President Trump. I'm not going to rely on any
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prime minister or president or any country ever again. Our manufacturing, we're gearing up,
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and when those assemblies start, we aren't going to stop them.
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As a Canadian, I am insulted by the decision announced today to block the export of critically
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needed medical equipment that we need to fight the pandemic here in this country.
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And I think it's short-sighted because the United States ultimately is a net importer of this kind
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of equipment. But it also underscores why we must produce our own critical equipment here at home,
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because apparently we can't even count on our closest friend and ally to be a supplier.
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As you know from the media, Trump ordered the noble company called 3M to simply stop sending
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masks to Canada. He ordered them to tear up their contracts with Canadian hospitals.
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Except that's not quite true. It all started last week when the head of Florida's emergency
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management office told Tucker Carlson on Fox News that 3M was giving him the runaround
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and selling their masks for cash to the highest bidder, including to folks shipping them back
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3M has lost total control. And so what I asked 3M is that, are they aware that their authorized
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distributors, U.S. companies, are telling me that the reason why our orders are being pushed
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down is because foreign countries are showing up with cash to purchase the orders. And when
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I told 3M that, not only did they not dispute it, I asked them if they've put out any guidance
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to prevent the behavior, and the answer was no. And so when I asked 3M, you know, what is
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your production? They said they're making 10 million masks a week. And when I said, great,
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I have money, I'd like to purchase some of those, they said I couldn't, that they have no mask
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to sell me. Now we know that's true. For months, China has been buying up North American supplies
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of masks, including masks imported to America from China, and then sending them back to China,
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not just to North America. I think I showed you this clip from Australia before too.
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In an almost military operation, massive numbers of surgical masks, thermometers, antibacterial
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wipes, hand sanitizers, gloves and Panadol were stripped from the shelves and shipped to China.
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Now, Canada is not involved with any of this. This is about Donald Trump not wanting masks
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sent back to China. And in fact, when asked about this, Trump's White House trade advisor,
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Peter Navarro, made it clear he was not talking about Canada or Mexico. Here, listen to him for
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yourself. 3M is basically going to be helping the American people fight this battle. There will still
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be some exports from the United States factories to our friends in Mexico and Canada. But as for the
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rest of 3M's production around the world, we're going to try to get our fair share. We will get our
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fair share of that. Oh, well, hang on. Didn't the media report that three million masks at the U.S.-Canada
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border were sent back to America? Sure, I saw that. So what really is happening? It sure is hard to find
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out. This story published by Global News that initially blamed Donald Trump has changed three
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times today alone. Now saying that 3 million masks were blocked at the border, but half a million have
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been released and the rest are expected to be. What's really going on? I'd like to know whether you have
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spoken to the Americans in your recent discussions about the fact that pulp and
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paper used to produce those N95 masks comes mainly from Canada and Naimo, B.C. Have you talked to them
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about that? Have you reflected on that with them? Yes, we have pointed out to the U.S. all the different materials and
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services that flow back and forth across the border. We do not want to start limiting our exports or the
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services that we provide to the United States. Oh, well, it's good to bash Donald Trump. It's good
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for business. It's good for politics. It's good for the media. Even conservatives like Doug Ford and Jason
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Kenney know that it will impress the media party. I mean, just the other day, the Toronto Star said
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they were very, very impressed with Doug Ford. And I guess this just cements this, I guess. Trudeau
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left the state broadcaster suggest that perhaps Trudeau could fight fire with fire and ban Canadian
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exports to the United States, including in the Naimo, B.C. There's this forestry processing plant,
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which apparently makes specialized paper products for masks. That's what the media party said. Alas,
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that's not true. That's not what is used in at least the N95 face masks. N95 means they take out
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95% of particles. Those masks use synthetic materials, not paper products. But it still felt good to talk
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tough about going to trade war with Donald Trump, and everyone was feeling pretty butch. Now, I've seen
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this happen before. Trudeau and the Canadian media are obsessed with Trump. I guess we all are.
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But the feeling is not mutual. Donald Trump just doesn't think about Canada, or at least does so
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very rarely. And that's lucky for us. If he knew the constant slow burn, anti-Trump paranoia and personal
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smears emanating from Trudeau and his government and his state broadcaster, I think he'd give us a smack.
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But lucky for us, he's too busy dealing with America and dealing with things like a grown-up around the
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world seven days a week. He hasn't decided to sleep in every day to self-isolate for a month,
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even though he neither has the symptoms nor has been found to have the virus. Trudeau just likes
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staying at home. It stops him from having to work so much, from making decisions, from answering
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questions. He still has vacation beard. You know, when Trump got his first virus briefing, Trudeau was
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still on his three-week vacation in Costa Rica with that beard. Psychologically, Trudeau's still on vacation.
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When Trump said foreign countries, whenever he says foreign, he really means overseas. He really
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means China. He practically thinks of Canada as part of the United States. We're so integrated.
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Like when Trump brought in steel tariffs, he meant to take aim at China, but he hit Canada as collateral
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damage. Although, to be fair, some Canadian companies were being tricky. They were buying cheap
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Chinese steel and just trans-shipping it to the U.S. Trump just doesn't think about Canada that much.
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You know, a better Canadian prime minister and foreign minister would be gently working with the
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U.S. every step of the way here, low-key, to make sure we're in step with them, whether it's border
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crossings or emergency preparedness. Alas, there are no grown-ups in Trudeau's government who could put
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aside their Trump hatred. Name one for me if you can. So much ado about nothing. 3M masks will be
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still coming to Canada, as always. All the huffing and puffing about Trump was just good fun.
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I know why Trudeau likes it, but if I were Doug Ford, and even more so Jason Kenney, who relies on
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Donald Trump to build the only pipeline into Alberta, the Keystone XL pipeline, I'd fact-check
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any accusations against Trump before repeating what Trudeau's CBC state broadcaster alleges.
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So everything's going great, right? Well, sometimes it pays to read some news media that's not generated
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by Trudeau's bailout media in Canada. The Wall Street Journal can do some pretty good reporting,
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so good that it recently had journalists kicked out of China by the government. So that's a very
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good sign, isn't it? Now look at this story. This is a story about a Canadian company headquartered in
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Trudeau's alleged hometown of Montreal. The company's called Medicom Group. They have three factories
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in China, including one in Wuhan, making face masks. That's amazing. I mean, wouldn't it be great
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to buy Canadian masks for Canadians? I guess they're made in China. Yeah, about that, take a look at the
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story. Mask maker Medicom Group, based in Montreal, operates three factories in China, including one in
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Wuhan, where the epidemic emerged. Its supply of materials in China has been diverted by government
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officials to produce masks for use there, said Kathy Lee, a senior sourcing manager for Medicom.
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Oh, just taken. Stolen, maybe diverted. That's the word used here. Commandeered. And it's a way,
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in a way, that's understandable. That's what countries sometimes do in a crisis, a panic,
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in an emergency. They put their own country first. Now, Trump was kind enough to include Canada and
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Mexico in his list of best friends, all in it together in this crisis, but not China. No way,
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they don't care. They'll literally take Canadian contracts for Canadian masks and just take it.
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Funny, though, not a peep from Trudeau or the media party about that outrage that really is
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going on. Not the 3M fake news story. Not a peep from Trudeau. Not from the CBC. Not even from Doug
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Ford or Jason Kenney. That's odd, because unlike the 3M story, this one isn't fake.
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So why isn't it being reported anywhere here in Canada? Stay with us for more.
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Well, those are some images, particularly from the United Kingdom.
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Where their police forces are actually deploying drones to hector people, spy on people, record people,
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and shame people, even for going for solitary walks in the countryside. All the while,
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the tube in London remains packed. Certainly not within social distancing guidelines.
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We are in a unique crisis, not seen in centuries since the plague quarantined great institutions
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across Europe. What is the best way for a government to respond? How much power should we give them?
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And how much infringements on our civil liberties should we tolerate? So far, I must tell you, Canadians
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and Americans, too, have seemed a little bit too eager to give up their freedoms on the say-so of some
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well-meaning, but ultimately only partially informed public health authorities. Well, joining us now to
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help make sense of it, especially in the context of Canada's emergency laws, I'm delighted to be joined
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by Sam Goldstein. We spoke with him a few weeks ago about his election as a bencher of the Law Society
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of Upper Canada. Today, he is here as a concerned civil libertarian and lawyer. Sam, great to see you again.
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I understand that we have to bring some order to the world if we're going to stop this pandemic, but I don't want to
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become like China, where they treat people like ants, and human life is worth very little, ironically, in this
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pandemic pushback. Why don't you take us through the Canadian legal situation? I'll do my best not to interrupt.
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I have so many thoughts on this myself, but you're the expert. Why don't you take us through the
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different levels of law here of what politicians and public health officers can order us to do as
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So, I mean, just to put it a little bit in perspective, I think the concept of giving powers over to a central
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authority are as old as going back to ancient Rome when they were able to, they had powers to elect what
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they call the tyrant to take over Rome and to deal with some sort of crisis. And the most famous tyrant of all is
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actually is Quintus Cincinnatus, who was elected in about 458 BC to help Rome deal with the barbarians, defeated the
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barbarians, gave up his dictatorship and went back to work in his farm. So that concept of centralizing power in times of
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emergency is a very old concept. In Canada, we have three levels of government. And so therefore, we have three
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different laws. So federal, we have the Emergency Measures Act. Provincially, we have the Emergency
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Management and Civil Property Act. And then there is also a city ordinance passed underneath the provincial
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law, which allows them to do that. So all three levels have their own three pieces of legislation, which
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allows them to take control in times of crises. Now, you know, we are really blessed, Ezra, despite the fact I
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have some concerns about civil liberties in Canada, we're really blessed with a system of government that
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disallows anyone who can assume powers of a tyrant like Cincinnatus, and doesn't simply rely upon
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Cincinnati's goodwill to give up those powers. We have things like our natural divisions of powers and
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federalism and so on and built in safeguards within these emergency acts, which limit the ability of
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centralized power to continue using it and to overuse it. So federally, I think the biggest thing I'd like to
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get across to people is, you know, people are confused between who has more power, the federal government or
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the provincial government. And as a matter of fact, while people are always asking for Trudeau to enact
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what's now called the Emergencies Measures Act, and I'll talk about its background in a moment, it's in
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fact the provincial government that has the real powers and more powers than the federal government.
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So the federal government has what I call the Emergencies Measures Act, and it replaced what used to be
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known as the War Measures Act, and it was replaced in 1988. And there's only three times, Ezra,
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that the War Measures Act was actually used in Canadian history. It was in World War I, World War II,
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and the October crisis of 1971, dealing with the FLQ. So the War Measures Act, what's important,
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and I'm going to sort of focus a little bit about the limitations on, as well as the powers that it has,
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right? So inside the War Measures Act, it makes it clear that this is a temporary, it's for, you know,
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special temporary measures, and it's to ensure the safety during national emergencies. And those words
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are really important because what it does, as I'm already saying, is it builds in limitations
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as to what the government can do. So the federal government could pass the EMA and impose, for example,
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a curfew on the country. Sorry, it can't pose a curfew on the country, right? It can only enact it,
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as I said, for certain limited reasons. So it even enumerates what those emergencies are. So the
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emergence could be public welfare, like a national catastrophe, like the Winnipeg Red River flood that
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happened, or lack magnetique in the train explosion. Those can be natural catastrophes.
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It could be for public order. So a public order would be, in case you remember in the 50s, we had
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Amir Gezenko, who was the Russian spy, who defected to Canada. So if there was a fear of some sort of,
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even like a coup of something like that, they can enact it for public order purposes, election tampering
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possibility, terrorism. And then inside each of those categories of when they can enact the legislation,
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it specifies what it can do, the federal government, what it can do to address those situations.
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So, for example, let's go back to the issue of what we're happening now, which is a public welfare,
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a natural catastrophe. It's dealing obviously with a disease, and that's specified underneath
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public welfare in case of disease. It has the limited powers to restrict travel. We're doing that.
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It can provide services and compensate people if it expropriates your property. It provides
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emergency payments to people, which is what the government is doing now. It could establish
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hospitals and shelter, distribute essential goods, restore structures. And it also has a fine,
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a summary conviction of $500 or less for six months or six months jail. Or if I'm on indictment,
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it's a $5,000 fine and not less than five years jail if you don't comply with the government.
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So, as you can sort of see, and the other important aspect of the Emergency Measures Act is that
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for a public welfare declaration of emergency, the parliament has to meet again in 30 days, which
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is in fact it's doing, and it then has to renew it. So you could see that. And then also, if 10 senators
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or 20 or more MPs decide that they want to revoke the declaration of emergency, they could actually
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sign like a petition, bring it to the governor general and say, we want you to recall parliament,
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and it gets debated as to whether they should continue or not. So there's a lot of built-in
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limitations in terms of the federal legislation to limit the government from expanding its power.
00:20:52.120
Well, that's good. So any 10 senators or any 20 MPs, they could be opposition MPs, they could say,
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this is out of control. Governor general, please call parliament back. Let's see if they really
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have the will of the people. Yes. Now, one other interesting aspect about the Emergency Measures Act
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and the built-in powers that limit it is right in the preamble of the act itself, it says that the
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Emergency Measures Act should be governed in accordance with the Charter of Rights, the Bill
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of Rights. And listen to this, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which is
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a UN document. And why that's so interesting is because Diefenbaker, one of my favorite Canadian
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prime ministers who came up with the Bill of Rights, was concerned about the internment of the
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the Japanese in World War II, which was underneath the War Measures Act. And inside the Bill of Rights,
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it talks about a protection against, get this, exile. And the reason why Diefenbaker put that in is
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because during World War II, not only were we interning the Japanese, but we're actually sending
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them back to Japan. So Diefenbaker was very conscious of that. And that's what he put in,
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you can't exile people. That's an important right because you heard Trudeau talking underneath the
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Aeronautics Act, which is another piece of federal legislation, of not allowing Canadians back into
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Canada. And that, you could possibly challenge that underneath the Bill of Rights. Now, we don't
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have to go there, but I'm just sort of, there's a lot of different interplay between the different
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acts. And as again, we still have the Bill of Rights, and it has some rights that the Charter
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doesn't, which inflicts sometimes with these other pieces of legislation in Canada. But again,
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the other thing about the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights is why they alluded to
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that, or why they built that into the preamble of the Emergency Measures Act is because the ICCPR
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talks about compensation. And the Charter doesn't, and the Bill of Rights does. And as you could,
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as you've heard me say, one of the aspects of the Emergency Measures Act is it says that if the
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federal government expropriates your lands for a purpose to address the national crisis,
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then you have the right to compensation. So very interesting little limitations
00:23:29.480
That's very interesting. And I'm pleased to know that there is that safety valve
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that opposition parliamentarians can use if necessary. It's also good to know,
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by the way, can you tell me, is there an expiry date? Is there a time limit? Did you say every 30
00:23:46.760
Yeah. So it depends upon what the emergency is for public, sorry, for what we're doing,
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public welfare, it's 30 days. For other ones, declarations, it's 60 days. And I believe in time
00:24:01.560
It's good to know that there's some built-in checks and balances there. Now that's the feds,
00:24:08.040
but so much of the heavy lifting here is being obviously done by the provinces, including the
00:24:13.000
premiers. I think that some of that is because they are often men of action. And Justin Trudeau
00:24:19.720
seems to be fairly hands-off. I've never heard of a national leader self-quarantining for a month,
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even though he had no symptoms and didn't take the virus test. It's so odd to me, but put that
00:24:31.880
politics aside, you've got Francois Legault, Doug Ford, Jason Kenney, John Horgan, really leading
00:24:39.480
the on-the-ground efforts. That's where the hospital's jurisdiction is, provincial schools
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jurisdiction. Tell me a little bit about what powers the provinces have in these emergencies.
00:24:53.640
So really, because of our division of powers in Section 91 and 92, what I like to continue
00:24:58.840
calling the British North American Act of 1867, you know, civil and property rights is with the
00:25:05.640
province. And that's really in a situation such as this, that's where the real powers are required.
00:25:12.760
So we have, I can't remember what I referred to it earlier, but it's called the Emergency
00:25:17.240
Management Civil Protection Act. Every province has a version of this. In Ontario, it used to be
00:25:24.360
called the Emergency Plans Act, but after the ice storm of 1998 and actually the Y2K crisis and 9-11,
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it was overhauled in 2002 and it became the Emergency Management Act. And then this is really
00:25:42.360
important. And then in 2006, after SARS, it became what it is now, but it was only in 2006, listen to
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this, it was only in 2006 that the definition of emergency included disease or health risk.
00:25:58.600
So for what, but for 2006 amendment, we would not be able to use the provincial powers. So what it does
00:26:06.680
is it allows us, and now you'll, you'll clearly be able to see some of the powers because you'll see
00:26:13.400
what Doug Ford's been saying. So the provincial legislation prohibits movement within any specified
00:26:19.720
area. It evacuates people and animals and property. It could establish shelters and hospitals. It could
00:26:28.200
close public places or businesses. It can distribute aid and goods and services. It could fix prices.
00:26:36.200
And it has a fine of not more than $100,000 or imprisonment for a year, if you're doing for an
00:26:43.800
individual or a director of a corporation, it's $500,000 penalty or one year, or a corporation is
00:26:50.680
$10 million. So you could see that. And there's a, now the thing about the provincial legislation is
00:26:57.560
interesting is there's also a basket clause, which says that it could take any such action
00:27:03.880
as it considers necessary. Let me say that again. It could take any such action as it considers,
00:27:11.960
as the province considers necessary. So that's, that's a tremendous, big, huge basket clause,
00:27:18.280
which you could, you could already see allows our premier to have very, you know, I don't want to
00:27:24.760
say unlimited powers, but let's say a broad range of powers within the sphere of federalism that he,
00:27:32.360
that he has. So it too, and it too has built in limitations. As you, as you may have heard, the
00:27:41.400
province has to come back to the legislature to extend the powers every, every 28 days. Now,
00:27:51.080
he has the power, the premier has the power for 14 days, and then the lieutenant governor could extend
00:27:58.040
that power for another 14 days, if the lieutenant governor is convinced that the same emergency is
00:28:05.000
still in effect. And then after, after a second two week period, he has to come back to the legislature.
00:28:11.080
So I think they're coming back next week to decide whether they should extend the emergency powers
00:28:17.320
underneath the provincial legislation. Now, I want to get back to one thing about,
00:28:23.480
about Trudeau enacting the federal legislation. And what's also interesting, another limitation
00:28:29.000
is that there's another act, another piece of federal legislation, which is the emergency
00:28:35.080
management act, not measures, but management. And the emergency management act allows the government
00:28:42.040
to start immediately turning on the federal spigots and having all this money flow to the provinces
00:28:49.000
to enable the provinces to do and carry out the programs that you've just heard me enumerate.
00:28:54.760
Why that's important is because you could only enact a federal piece of legislation,
00:29:00.760
the emergency act, if the provinces, plural, or province is unable to deal with the situation.
00:29:09.000
So one of the problems the federal government has in enacting the federal legislation is it has to
00:29:16.520
show that it's that the province is unable to deal with the situation. And that would mean that you could
00:29:22.040
say, well, Mr. Prime Minister, what measures did you take underneath the Emergency Measures Act? How
00:29:27.720
much money did you give them? Right? So the provinces, if they wanted to push back on any
00:29:33.480
federal incursion on their territory, if any individual wanted to challenge the federal government,
00:29:38.200
they could say, well, before you can act the Emergency Measures Act, the AMA, you have to tell me what
00:29:43.400
you did underneath the Management Act. So I thought that's just kind of another interesting limitation
00:29:49.080
on the power and how different pieces of legislation could interact with each other.
00:29:53.320
Well, let me ask you a question. This is very illuminating to me that all these powers are
00:29:58.440
there. And you're right, there's these basket clauses, these grab alls that really look quite
00:30:03.560
unlimited. One of the few limitations, as you say, they have to be interpreted with the charter in mind,
00:30:10.200
well, good luck getting into court on a speedy basis for this. But at least they have 14 or 30 day
00:30:18.600
check back periods with the parliaments. But let me ask you in a real life way. So let's say,
00:30:25.480
in a flourish of bureaucratic and political overreach, that some politician somewhere says,
00:30:35.080
you can't leave your house. And I tell you, it feels like we're inches away from that right now.
00:30:40.120
Well, good luck telling 37 million Canadians they can't leave their house.
00:30:46.520
Um, who would enforce these laws? Can, would it be the RCMP? Would it be the provincial police in
00:30:53.640
places like Ontario and Quebec? Would it be local city cops? Can any police officer enforce any or all
00:31:02.600
Uh, yes. Um, again, I just want to give one more limitation in the provincial legislation,
00:31:07.560
just like the federal legislation. They could all, the province could only enact the emergencies
00:31:12.600
act. Again, if it, uh, if there's a serious risk, um, that if they delayed, um, enacting legislation,
00:31:21.080
it could possibly cause, um, uh, um, problems in society. So again, that's not a limitation,
00:31:28.440
but to address your specific issue, um, a lot of the, a lot of the ability to protect civil rights
00:31:35.720
in situations like this are post hoc. So they're always sort of after the fact that may be unfortunate,
00:31:41.800
but you could also sort of understand in an emergency type of situation, you're sort of giving
00:31:47.320
the benefit to the state with the limitations that it may have in terms of extending the power.
00:31:53.640
Frankly, you know, I think as a civil libertarian, my concern is not so much with, um, when these
00:32:00.360
things are being enacted. I think the real concern for civil libertarians and people like yourself,
00:32:05.160
Ezra, and your viewers is when, and what we're seeing now is when, uh, health officials get on
00:32:12.280
television and they start saying, well, we recommend that you put on masks, or we recommend, uh, that you
00:32:19.080
do this or that, or stay six feet away from people. The problem with that is that's not a law,
00:32:25.640
right? That's where the confusion is. And I think if there's any criticism of our politicians,
00:32:30.120
and I actually think they've been doing a good job more or less, uh, both federally,
00:32:33.960
provincially and, and municipally. But the one criticism I have is people are not clear as to
00:32:40.040
what's a recommendation and what a law is. And why that's problematic is number one, we don't want,
00:32:45.960
our health officials are not elected people. They don't have the authority to start telling us what
00:32:51.240
to do. And I think that causes problems. And the second thing is you want to know what a law is and
00:32:56.520
what is just simply a recommendation because, and this is a very real thing that happened on my street
00:33:01.320
is that there's a, uh, a neighborhood family that owns a restaurant and that restaurant is that
00:33:06.840
family's entire soul livelihood. And they want to know when they have to close it down. So obviously,
00:33:13.640
Doug Ford came out and said, we want businesses, restaurants are not essential services. They
00:33:18.280
have to close down and they closed down. But up until that point, they were not sure what to do.
00:33:24.520
Um, of course they want to be sensitive to the, to the health crisis, but on the other hand,
00:33:28.520
they have a livelihood that they have to make for themselves. So those confusions, I think,
00:33:33.880
are what the problem is. The other aspect is with the police in policing these issues. Um,
00:33:39.880
so, um, just the other day, very much like those pictures you showed earlier on is my niece was
00:33:46.600
stopped by a York regional police officer on the street and she was asked what she was doing. Now,
00:33:51.640
all she was, is she was out walking her dog. She stopped for a moment to check her phone and,
00:33:56.360
you know, send a text message. Uh, and the police officer started asking her questions. Now,
00:34:02.360
I don't know if the police officer understood that as of yet, it's not, and she was alone. So as of yet,
00:34:08.600
the province just simply said, uh, police officers can stop you and they could ask your name,
00:34:15.320
address and date of birth. Okay. But they have to see you. Uh, there has to be a rational connection
00:34:20.600
to why they're stopping you. And that authority would be not breaching the five or less, uh,
00:34:26.680
five or more people. Right. So she was by herself. So the police officer had no, no authority to say
00:34:33.160
anything to her really. I mean, obviously police officers could come up to anyone and start talking to
00:34:36.760
them. But if the officer would have asked her, you know, identify yourself, I want everyone to
00:34:41.960
know that you, all you have to do is give them your, if you see, and you suspect that they're, that
00:34:47.080
they're, um, stop, they're questioning you in relation to one of these emergency laws, then, you know,
00:34:52.760
you have to give them your name, date of birth and address, but you don't have to, you do not have to
00:34:57.480
provide documentation. You have to satisfy the officer that, um, you're identifying yourself,
00:35:03.480
but you have to provide your birth certificate or your driver's license to the officer.
00:35:07.880
And interesting today, interesting, just today, I was out at Hyde Park and I was walking my dog and
00:35:13.240
a bylaw officer came up to me and, uh, he was asking me why I was, why I was walking my dog, um,
00:35:20.440
in the, uh, off leash on the on leash area. And I just kept walking because I know that the bylaw
00:35:27.640
officer was not investigating me for anything underneath the provincial legislation. And so
00:35:33.080
I don't have to stop. I just kept, I said to him, thank you very much. I didn't bring it today. I'll
00:35:36.920
bring it tomorrow. And I kept on walking. Right. So unfortunately, not everyone has the wherewithal to
00:35:41.960
understand, you know, what, what pieces of legislation gives officers, uh, you know, what rights and what
00:35:49.160
powers, but that officer didn't have the authority to stop me or ask me to identify myself. Yeah.
00:35:55.240
Part of me feels sympathetic towards police officers who are, you know, it's their job to
00:36:02.920
carry out the policies of politicians and, and laws. And they surely are unfamiliar with these laws,
00:36:12.120
even though I guess it's their job to bone up on them. Part of me wants to be grateful to anyone
00:36:17.880
in uniform these days, who's doing the hard work out there. But I think that there is a certain kind
00:36:25.480
of police officer and I hope it's not too numerous who would rejoice in this new power. You referred to
00:36:34.840
the Roman emperor as a tyrant, his official title. You can be a tyrant for two years. I, I would hope
00:36:41.320
that police, uh, don't out of ignorance of the law or enjoyment of their superpowers go around
00:36:49.400
and basically bully people. Uh, and, and hopefully people like that are not part of our police force,
00:36:56.040
but it irritates me that we're going towards that stereotypical scene in those World War II movies
00:37:02.840
where the German police officer encounters some French resistance person on the street and says,
00:37:08.440
what's your papers? I am Papyrin. You know, um, that's, that's not who we are. And that's
00:37:13.960
actually not doing a bloody thing to stop the virus.
00:37:18.920
Yeah, I think, um, I think it was Benjamin Franklin who said that, uh, those who trade their,
00:37:25.240
their liberties for security, uh, ends up being fools. And, and I'm very, um, I always remind myself
00:37:32.360
of that phrase. I think it's up to Canadians and I, to, you know, to guard our civil liberties. I
00:37:39.080
mean, I think the police are doing a good job more or less, as I said, the police are the, our
00:37:43.720
politicians are doing a good job more or less, but that's not to say that, um, we shouldn't be
00:37:48.280
vigilant. You know, we always should be vigilant. We should know our rights. We should, um, you know,
00:37:53.320
in a, in a polite way, uh, we should exercise our rights. Um, I thank the officers, this,
00:37:59.800
the bylaw officers this morning, uh, as I just kept walking by them. Uh, but you know,
00:38:05.960
I think I was polite, wasn't rude to them. And I think we have to do the same thing.
00:38:09.320
There's nothing wrong with saying, well, officer, why are you detaining me? And if they give a reason,
00:38:13.400
then you, you know, you cooperate, but there's nothing wrong with asking why an officer is stopping
00:38:19.560
you and, and asking for an explanation, certainly nothing wrong with that. And, and not only you're
00:38:23.880
protecting yourself, but you're also protecting your rights for everybody. Yeah.
00:38:27.480
One thing you should also know is you're, as I said, a lot of these, sorry, I was about to say
00:38:31.560
something. No, you, you continue your thought, then I'm going to ask you about jail. So go ahead.
00:38:37.960
Okay. So, I mean, what, one of the things, again, in terms of the limitations is, is provincially,
00:38:44.360
the, um, the premier has 120 days after the revocation emergency act to provide a report
00:38:54.200
to the legislature. And, uh, so, you know, and in that a hundred day, after a hundred days in that
00:38:59.160
report, that'll show, you know, the reasons why he did what he, um, you know, the decisions he made
00:39:04.760
and why he made them. I think it was really amazing and fantastic for Doug Ford and a little bit of, um,
00:39:11.160
a mistake for Trudeau, um, to not give over the information with respect to the modeling, because
00:39:17.560
ultimately that information, the modeling would become very important in any charter challenge
00:39:24.920
or any, uh, any challenge to the law. So I think Doug Ford, not only in the legal, um,
00:39:30.520
purpose of providing the, I mean, you know, providing the justification, but I think,
00:39:35.240
you know, by providing that information, you're really.
00:39:39.720
Well, we had a bit of an internet hiccup there, which is how things sometimes go these days,
00:39:44.040
but we're going to pick it right back up. We've got Sam back on the line, civil liberties lawyer,
00:39:48.920
uh, in Toronto, criminal lawyer, also elected as a bencher in the Ontario Law Society. Sam,
00:39:55.720
you've given me some encouragement to tell me that there are some built-in checks and balances
00:40:00.440
with all of these laws. Uh, there are rules for the governor general or lieutenant governor to
00:40:06.760
step in for opposition MPs, at least federally, to force a return to parliament. There are reporting
00:40:13.560
rules that have to come afterwards. That's all encouraging, including the remonstration that
00:40:19.080
these emergency powers must still respect the charter. Um, and you've also remind me that,
00:40:25.000
listen, the cops are the good guys, uh, but we can still resist their overweening authority,
00:40:31.880
like when they tried to stop you walking your dog or tell your niece she can't be out alone.
00:40:38.440
Let me ask you a sort of a quirky question. If they're letting convicted prisoners out of prison,
00:40:47.560
including violent offenders, like they're emptying the prisoners, the prisons in the name of coronavirus,
00:40:54.600
what would they do with someone that they arrest? So they're letting violent criminals out of jail,
00:41:01.080
but you're walking your dog when you're not supposed to, what would they actually do with you?
00:41:06.360
Yeah. Um, good question, Ezra. Um, the reality is, is that, um, there's an enforcement problem in,
00:41:14.680
in, in this situation. Uh, it is unlikely they're going to take you to jail, uh, let more likely what they
00:41:21.240
do is just give you a little ticket saying, you know, show up in three months and we'll deal with your
00:41:26.840
court system. So we're really relying upon the goodwill of the Canadian public right now. I can't,
00:41:33.240
as you pointed out, keep, you know, they're only really detaining people with major crimes.
00:41:39.000
Even in Toronto, as I'm a, you know, I do some civil liberties, I'm primarily a criminal lawyer.
00:41:44.600
Um, those people who are being held for bail hearings are, are really the, the more, the,
00:41:50.200
the serious crimes, the ones where you're found with the drugs, you're found with the gun.
00:41:55.240
Those are the types of crimes that they're doing bail hearings for. But the vast majority of
00:41:59.560
situations now, if you get arrested, they'll give you what's called a promise to a peace officer
00:42:05.320
and a form 11, uh, an undertaking to a police officer, which says, you know, don't, you know,
00:42:10.760
stay away from that person or stay away from that store. Um, and they'll just release you.
00:42:16.280
So it's really the only serious crimes. This is not a serious crime. If you're caught
00:42:22.200
with five people or more likely, as I said, you'll just get a ticket and the ticket will
00:42:26.120
say, come back sometime. Now the courts are not expected to open up until June.
00:42:30.920
Um, so sometime in June, you'd have your court appearance.
00:42:34.040
Well, hopefully things will be back on track then. Um, my own homemade math until we get the formal
00:42:41.960
stats. Uh, I was just calculating the number of people who've applied for employment insurance
00:42:47.720
divided into the labor force. When I checked a few days ago, we were at 16% national unemployment.
00:42:54.760
I think the stats have actually gone up by another percent since then. The worst it ever got under the
00:43:01.560
Great Depression was 19%. I think this could theoretically be worse. And here's my last question
00:43:09.320
to you, Sam. Right now we're all sort of stunned by this at once. For some people, it's sort of stay
00:43:15.880
at home, watch Netflix, have some fun because the reality hasn't sunk in yet. But some people can work
00:43:23.240
from home, but for millions of people, this is going to go from a novelty to a personal disaster very
00:43:31.640
quickly. And you just said, we're all relying on goodwill and good behavior. I'm worried that if we
00:43:40.360
have 20, 25% unemployment for weeks or months, that you will see a breakdown in civil society. You will
00:43:51.720
see lawlessness. You'll see vigilantes. You'll see people scoffing at the law and saying, why are you
00:43:58.440
coming at me for walking my dog when my neighbor was robbed yesterday? And I'm more, I'm more worried
00:44:05.560
about the economy than I'm worried about the virus at this point. And I hate to say, but a month from
00:44:11.800
now, I think I'm going to be more worried about the anarchy than about the economy.
00:44:20.200
Well, certainly, Ezra, I share your point of view with respect to being worried about the economy.
00:44:27.240
While I might be a lawyer, the courts are shut down. And in effect, I'm being put out of work.
00:44:33.800
So I, you know, I, as again, I share that concern with the economy. I don't necessarily share your
00:44:39.720
same concern for anarchy in the streets, given high levels of unemployment. The reason why I don't is,
00:44:46.280
is, you know, Ezra, you're sounding kind of like Karl Marx there. He predicted, you know,
00:44:51.400
he predicted there'd be anarchy in the streets and types of situations like this. But historically,
00:44:56.280
you know, even when we went through the Great Depression, there might have been the Winnipeg
00:45:00.200
general strike, but by and large, Canadian society still remains stable. So I think,
00:45:06.680
you know, I still think that as long as our fundamental, we believe in a fundamental principles
00:45:12.120
of liberalism, and we buy into that, those principles, I think we'll be okay as a society.
00:45:19.240
I don't share the view that just because you're going to have mass unemployment that you're going
00:45:23.720
to necessarily have anarchy in the streets. I think, again, as long as people understand
00:45:28.920
why the civil liberties are being taken away from them, if there's a buy-in, and as I think,
00:45:33.800
again, I'm going to, you know, congratulate Doug Ford in releasing
00:45:36.840
those information and statistics on his modeling. People can see why our politicians are making the
00:45:44.200
decisions that they're making. I think generally people will understand that, look, I know that
00:45:48.440
there's a high unemployment, but we have to do this because of the health risks at stake. And that's
00:45:54.600
why I think it's a real mistake for Trudeau to hide that information.
00:45:59.320
I accept your criticism that saying poverty or unemployment equals crime is a Marxist concept.
00:46:06.520
I accept that. I guess what I'm worried about is when people have been ordered not to work,
00:46:13.480
when companies have been ordered out of business by political action. Like the Great Depression was
00:46:18.760
a result of big strategic policy errors, but no one ordered companies to close. This feels a little
00:46:26.840
bit more like when Trudeau cancels pipelines in Alberta or when the government ordered the cod
00:46:32.840
fishery to close, even though that was a result of a biological, you know, there just weren't any
00:46:37.480
fish. I guess, I mean, I don't want to be a pessimist. I just am worried if you have police who can't put
00:46:44.440
people in jail, if a greater proportion of police themselves call in sick, if police are now harassing
00:46:52.680
your niece or you for walking the dog or going for a walk and Joe lunch bucket cannot work even though
00:47:01.400
he wants to work and his boss wants to work. That's what I'm worried about is you see the disconnect
00:47:07.000
between the people who are paying the price and this elite class of bureaucrat politician who can't
00:47:14.360
even make up their minds as to whether or not masks work or not. I guess, I don't know. I mean,
00:47:18.840
I'm lucky to still have a job, Sam, but I'm worried about other people saying not only do I not have a job,
00:47:24.360
but that idiot on TV told me I can't have a job and it's because of him that I can't have a job. I'm
00:47:30.920
worried about the source of this unemployment being a political decision. Anyway, maybe I haven't thought
00:47:36.440
this through well yet, but I'm nervous about how things will be in a month. Last word to you, Sam.
00:47:41.560
Sam? Well, listen, has anyone ever accused of being a Marxist before, Ezra? Yeah, no, never.
00:47:51.960
No, look, I look, I'm one of the I'm Joe Bucket right now, Ezra, I'm unemployed. And, you know,
00:47:57.480
with some embarrassment, I have to tell you that I had to apply today for the $2,000 a month,
00:48:03.800
because I'm not working. But I think, you know, I'm buying into for now I'm buying into the fact that
00:48:10.520
I'm being deprived of livelihood. And, you know, keep in mind that I have business expenses as well
00:48:16.920
as home expenses. And and the $2,000 isn't necessarily going to cover everything. And
00:48:21.160
it's certainly not going to go towards putting money away from my retirement. I'm just sort of
00:48:25.880
barely to get by on it. But I'm willing for now at least to put up here to accept that I have to do
00:48:31.880
this for the good of everybody. And if it takes, you know, you know, we'll just see. I mean, I can't,
00:48:38.440
you know, if at 18 months, you know, I think the federal government will be called on and
00:48:42.760
the provincial government will be called on for more to do more. And we'll, you know,
00:48:48.840
we'll take every day at a time and see how it goes. But for now, as someone who's Joe Bucket,
00:48:53.640
who's out of a work because Trudeau or Premier Ford is telling me that I can't work, I'm accepting
00:48:58.760
it for now because I understand the crisis that we're in. I have my suspicions and my skepticism
00:49:05.240
about things. And I certainly question what the politicians tell me. And I question what
00:49:10.440
the health authorities do. But I'm for now, the evidence is there for me to justify in my own mind,
00:49:19.160
giving up my livelihood for now. We'll see in a couple of days, we'll see what happens in 18 months.
00:49:24.920
But, you know, if it's going to go to 18 months, I could only assume that the numbers are going to be
00:49:29.000
really bad. But for now, Ezra, I think I'm willing to give up my livelihood for the good of everybody.
00:49:36.680
Well, I hope you're right, Sam. And I think you've got a great attitude. And God willing,
00:49:41.320
we'll all be through this soon. And things will get on the mend, not only in terms of health,
00:49:46.840
but also in terms of the economic health and personal liberty of our country. Thanks so much
00:49:53.000
for sharing your wisdom. I learned a lot from you, not just about our laws today,
00:49:57.000
but about the election or selection of a tyrant, as he was called, in the Roman Empire. I'm going
00:50:03.640
to study a little bit more about that. Take care, my friend. Stay safe.
00:50:09.720
There's our friend Sam Goldstein. We first spoke to him a few weeks ago about his principle-based,
00:50:17.080
conscience-based campaign for the lost side of Ontario. And he joins us today to talk about
00:50:22.200
these emergency powers. Stay with us. More ahead.
00:50:27.000
Hey, welcome back on my monologue Friday about effective drugs to treat the coronavirus that
00:50:40.360
seems like this virus will burn through the population long before a vaccine will be presented.
00:50:44.680
The government continues to expose the Canadian population to this epidemic with overseas flights
00:50:49.720
coming in one after the other. Yeah, I thought that maybe the flights were done,
00:50:53.080
but I went online to yvr.ca, that's the Vancouver airport's website, and to torontopearson.com,
00:51:00.920
that's Toronto's airport. Both have flights from China landing today.
00:51:07.800
Kurt writes, if only the mainstream media would report on issues like Rebel News does.
00:51:12.200
You guys keep impressing me daily, keep it up, and hope you and all your viewers are safe.
00:51:16.520
Well, thanks very much. We'll do our best. On my interview with Mark Morano, Zuzanna writes,
00:51:21.400
I sure hope Mark Morano is right and Trump will soon realize that this whole COVID-19 situation is
00:51:26.680
a subversion of our basic rights and freedoms. I don't even know if Justin Trudeau is in control
00:51:34.120
or in command. He's certainly not fully engaged. He's lazing around in his PJs at home all day.
00:51:40.520
He's letting other cabinet ministers make the decisions or other public health officers. But
00:51:46.840
a public health officer is not an elected accountable politician. It's an advisor,
00:51:51.640
fine, but a decider has to make the decisions. And I am terrified that we're just sort of floating
00:51:58.520
along, doing everything weeks or months late, taking leadership direction from the World Health
00:52:04.440
Organization, which really means from China. I think we're having the worst of all worlds.
00:52:08.840
Well, folks, that's our show for today. On behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters,
00:52:14.280
to you at home, good night, stay healthy, and keep fighting for freedom.