INTERVIEW： Jay Hill of the Western regional separatist Maverick Party
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Summary
Jay Hill is the interim leader of the Maverick Party and he explains his role in our discussion today. He also explains what he hopes to achieve as the party's interim leader within Confederation and outside of Confederation. He also questions some of the criticisms the party receives for being accused of vote splitting.
Transcript
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Oh hi Rebels, you're listening to a free audio only recording of my weekly Wednesday night show
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The Gun Show. Tonight my guest was much requested. It's Jay Hill. He's the interim leader of the
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separatist federal maverick party. Now if you like listening to the show then I promise you're
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going to love watching it but in order to watch you need to be a subscriber to Rebel News Plus.
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please enjoy this free audio only version of my show.
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You asked, I delivered. Tonight my guest is Jay Hill of the Maverick Party. I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed
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One of the most requested guests I've ever had in the history of this show has been Jay Hill of the
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Maverick Party. I get emails, I get super chats, I get text messages. Some of you have even found my
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personal email and are sending me email requests saying, Sheila you have to have Jay Hill on of the
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Maverick Party. Now Jay Hill is the interim leader of the Maverick Party and he'll explain his role in
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our discussion today. He also explains what he hopes to achieve as the interim leader of the Maverick Party,
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what sort of the some of the Maverick goals are, what that would look like within Confederation and outside
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of Confederation. I asked him some prickly questions too about the criticisms that the Maverick Party receives
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for being accused of vote splitting. That's something that's of great concern to us here in Alberta
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because frankly that's how we got Rachel Notley for four years. I also asked Jay some questions about
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Erin O'Toole, the Federal Conservative Party convention that took place, some of his criticisms
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of O'Toole's speech, very similar frankly to my own. Anyway it's a very, well it's not very long. I think
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you'll find it engaging but it's much longer than some of my normal interviews but there was so much
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to talk to and you guys really wanted to hear from Jay Hill so you're gonna. The interview is over 45
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minutes so my advice to you is you know put on your stretchy pants, settle in, get a beer because friends
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here is Jay Hill the interim leader of the Maverick Party in an interview we recorded earlier this morning.
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Joining me now is Jay Hill, he's the leader of the Maverick Party. Jay thank you so much for taking
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the time to do this interview you're one of the most requested guests I've ever had in five years,
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five plus years I guess at Rebel News. Jay first give us a Cole's Notes version of your background,
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who and what you are before we get into what the Maverick Party is and then some of the more pressing
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issues of the day that I'd love to pick your brain about. Sure Sheila, first of all let me say it's a
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pleasure to be with you on your program today. A brief background for myself is I was born and
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raised in northern British Columbia, raised on a farm so became acquainted with hard work early in
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my life along with my brothers and sister and ultimately returned to farming after working
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for a period of time as a young man in the oil and natural gas fields up in northern British Columbia
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and up into the territories. Continued to work in a variety of occupations in the wintertime to
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subsidize a farm as a lot of farmers in western Canada do and great to have those opportunities
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to do that. Ultimately became quite disenchanted with where the country was going in the early 80s and
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and on into the mid 80s and I heard about this upstart political party called, in fact it wasn't even a
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party when I first got involved, it was called the Reform Association. A young man at the time,
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Preston Manning leading it and increasing disenchantment, disillusionment, alienation being
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experienced in western Canada really fueled the start of the Reform Party. I was encouraged to run in 1988
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even though I was, as I said, farming full-time with my one younger brother and my father.
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I left the farm to campaign in the fall of 1988. No Reformers won in that election and we can discuss
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why that was because it has some bearing on the strategy of the Maverick Party today, ironically.
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But in any event, I stayed actively involved, ran again in 1993 and won election to the House of
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Commons to represent Prince George Peace River, which is roughly a quarter of the land mass of
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British Columbia up in the northeast corner of the province. It's the only riding that's split in
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half by the Rocky Mountains. So I was pleased to do that, go as one of 52 Reformers to Ottawa in the
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spring of 1994 and, or winter I guess it was, of 1994 and served for 17 years in various capacities.
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The majority of those 17 years I was honoured to be asked by successive leaders to serve in a caucus
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officer position, either as the whip or the question period coordinator or later on as house leader,
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both in opposition and in government. Finished my career as a government minister with Stephen Harper,
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as his leader of the government in the House of Commons, commonly referred to as the government
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house leader. Retired in 2010, so I've been retired from, or I thought I was, retired from federal
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politics in 2010, the fall of 2010. So about 10 and a half years now that I've been officially out of
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federal politics. Moved to Calgary where my children were and started a one-man government consulting firm
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working from home. I was very successful at that. Enjoyed working with some terrific corporate clients,
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mostly in the oil and gas area of industry. And ultimately retired about a year and a half ago,
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or I thought I did, until I got involved in June of last year as the interim leader of what has become
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the Maverick Party. At the time it was known as Wexit Canada, that's how it applied for registration with
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Elections Canada. And we changed the name last fall. So the Maverick Party, as it exists, has only been
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in operation for just a few days over six months. It was the 17th of September, we got approval from
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Elections Canada to change the name. And a small group of us, represented by the board of the party, have
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been working full-time, basically seven days a week ever since, to try and get this upstart neophyte
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federal political party off the ground and operating in time for the next election whenever the Prime
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Minister decides to call it. Now, I guess my question to you is, how did you end up going from
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the Reform Party motto of the West wants in to the West wants out? How did you make that journey
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from, I guess, being a pro-Western federalist to now a separatist?
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Well, that's an interesting question, Sheila, and it was a bit of a transition, obviously,
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as, you know, a very strong federalist, somebody that had devoted a big part of my adult life,
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as I just explained, to federal politics, to serving the people of Northeastern British Columbia,
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and to go from that to at least a leading a party that has, and we can get into this,
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a twin track approach to greater autonomy for Western Canada was quite a step. And obviously,
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it surprised a lot of people, especially former colleagues, some of which are still sitting members
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of Parliament with the Conservative Party, that were a bit shocked, shall I say, about this transition.
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It was coming for a period of time after my exit from federal politics, but it really came to the fore
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when the Wexit movement got started across the West. And of course, that was really inflamed by the 2019
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election results. When we saw what is largely viewed in Western Canada as a completely incompetent
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Prime Minister and government re-elected by Central and Eastern Canada. If you look at the results from 2019,
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I have said, Sheila, that there is no greater example of why the West feels alienated than that re-election
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of that administration of Justin Trudeau's. It is so stark that no one in Western Canada can doubt
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how little our voice and our votes count than when you see Central and Eastern Canada overlook all of the
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scandals that were present during that last election campaign and leading up to it, and that they still re-elected
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this person that I believe is the most unqualified person to occupy the Prime Minister's office, certainly
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in my lifetime, if not in the history of our country. And so I was absolutely dismayed, completely disillusioned
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the day after the 2019 election. And I came to the realization that the system as it is, is not going to work.
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By and large, the majority of Westerners have supported conservatives, or a conservative type of party,
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like the Reform Party, down through history for over 100 years. And the reality is, is that it is not working.
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We get, in our view, we get some better government when we have a government like Stephen Harper's,
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but it does not solve the inherent systemic problems of how we're governed. And invariably,
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the East re-elects a Liberal government at some point, and we're confronted by the same problems all
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over again. And so that's what motivated me to end up where I am as the interim leader of this
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particular party that is the West's only federal party in the sense that we are committed to not running
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candidates anywhere, but in Western Canada and the Northern territories.
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Now, tell me about the Maverick Party, because you just described, well, you alluded to, and I'd like you to
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describe this twin track approach to, I'm sorry, how did you describe it? Western sovereignty?
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Western, the autonomy of Western Canada. It's not unlike what we saw by the Fair Deal panel that
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was struck here in Alberta that held a lot of public meetings and received input from Albertans as to
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how they believe that Alberta should move towards greater autonomy from Ottawa and from the federal
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government. And of course, they came up with 25 recommendations that are now sitting with Premier
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Kenney and his government. And I guess we'll see how all that turns out. Maverick is supportive of the
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vast majority of those recommendations, I might add. But what we structured when myself and our small
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board of directors got down to determining the strategy of Maverick is we took a look at the
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referendum campaigns on sovereignty that Quebec had both in 1980 and 1995, particularly the latter one
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when Quebec came so close, within a hair's breadth, I might say, of achieving secession from Canada.
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And what became quite obvious was that a lot of the people that were undecided, that were sitting on the
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fence, as it were, became increasingly concerned through the referendum campaign. Well, they became
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frightened of what might transpire if there was a yes vote. And what that did, Sheila, in my opinion,
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was that it tipped them off the fence onto the no side. And that's why they lost. So what we as Maverick
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members learned from that, the Maverick Party, was that somehow, if we're going to move forward with
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independence for Western Canada, we have to convince the majority of Western Canadians that that's the
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that's the credible option, that's the sensible option. In fact, in the end, it's quite likely going
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to be the only option. If we want to put ourselves on a track to achieve our destiny and our hopes and
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dreams for next generations. So what we did was we came up with this, what we call our twin track
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approach for a mission statement. And what it basically says, I don't have it in front of me, so I can't read
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it verbatim. But what it basically says is that we believe in greater autonomy for Western Canada, either
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through constitutional change, or through laying the foundations for a future independent nation. So it's
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an either or type of scenario. If we could achieve like the Reform Party set out to do substantive
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constitutional modernization. As you know, Sheila, Canada's constitution was designed in the 1800s.
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We're now in the 2100s. And it hasn't been substantially modernized. And so we've proposed,
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under our option A, to remain within Canada, but make substantive change, five potential amendments to
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Canada's constitution, which we believe if they were enacted by the other provinces and the federal
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government, could chart a new course for Canada, that would help Western Canada remain within the
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country, and ultimately, to achieve our hopes and dreams. Now, this to me, what you're describing is
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more of a Western Bloc Québécois, I guess. Yeah, especially in that you plan to only run,
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which makes sense, candidates here in Western Canada. I want to ask you, because just last week,
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Premier Jason Kenney announced legislation for citizen initiated referenda. Now, it seems to me that
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there's a bit of a poison pill in that legislation. And he's also turned down the idea of something
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similar as to what Saskatchewan's doing, where they have an associate minister of autonomy,
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for lack of a better word. And I know Drew Barnes here in Alberta has proposed something similar.
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Jason Kenney has been very resistant to these ideas that give Albertans a voice or a chance to choose a
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way forward. I want to ask your opinion, or I guess representative of the Maverick Party,
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about this new citizen initiated referenda legislation.
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Well, first of all, let me say that, and there's constant confusion on social media about this,
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Sheila, is that Maverick is a federal party, even though we are only committed, as you say,
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to running in Western Canada. So, it's very easy for me to sit in an armchair and criticize
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provincial governments. But I'm resistant to doing that. There's lots of provincial
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parties that can be critical, and rightly so, and try and hold provincial governments, whether it's
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the government of Jason Kenney or John Horgan out in British Columbia, or Scott Moe or Brian Pallister.
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There's opposition parties that has that as their mandate to hold them to account. And that's how
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democracy works. Having said that, Maverick, obviously, as was reformed before it, very open
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to citizen-initiated democracy. It would be nice if those systems, and I haven't studied the current
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one that Jason has put forward, to know how workable it is. There's a fine balance there between
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between citizens having the opportunity to put forward questions in the form of a citizen-generated
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initiative that would ultimately end up as a referendum, where your populace would actually
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cast a vote for it one way or the other, and having that basically be too easy to achieve,
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I guess is what I would say. So there has to be that balance. Efforts to achieve that in the past,
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I think, have failed. And I'll leave it to some others to analyze Jason Kenney's effort in that
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regard. I know he's committed to a referendum. He's often talked about it for the last couple of years
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on equalization. I don't personally, and Maverick doesn't support the direction he's going with that.
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We are vehemently opposed to the existing equalization formula, and we will be speaking
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about that whenever we get into an election campaign. Our candidates will be carrying that
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message. But we're not opposed to the principle of a federation where the provinces that have resources
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share them with provinces that don't to try to bring us up to equilibrium in this delivery of social
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services. I think that principle that's enshrined in the constitution, there's nothing wrong with
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that principle. It really strikes to the heart of most Canadians being caring and giving and generous
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people. The problem is with the formula that obviously dramatically impacts on one region,
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and in particular one province of the country, to transfer wealth elsewhere.
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And just one of the examples I've spoken of is the fact that non-renewable resources is included in the
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calculation for the provinces, like our oil in Western Canada. But hydroelectric, which is,
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I've been told, the biggest generator of revenue for the province of Quebec is not.
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So that seems inherently unfair, I think, for most Westerners. So that's where our direction is on that
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issue of equalization, not on the principle of fairness and equity.
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I guess getting back to the referendum question. So if there were a citizen-initiated referendum to
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take place in Alberta, would Maverick be actively involved in the Leave side? Would you organize,
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even though you're a federal party and this is a provincial issue, would you take the lead
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or at least get seriously involved in the Leave side of that debate?
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Well, I guess, first of all, you have to define what the question is, in fairness, Sheila.
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A citizens-directed initiative that ends up as a referendum in front of the people of a province,
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could be on any subject matter. So if you're suggesting it would be a question in some form
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of independence for Alberta, if that's your question, then obviously we would be actively involved
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in supporting that. But there's a lot of steps before that were to happen. Obviously, the Clarity
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Act, the Federal Clarity Act would come into play that requires the House of Commons to debate whether
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the question itself that's being presented to people, in this case, in your example, the people of Alberta,
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is it a fair question? Is it going to hopefully result in a fair determination by the people of that
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province on the issue of independence? So there's a lot that would go into it. But if it was a fair question,
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and if it was on autonomy slash independence, yes, Maverick would be actively involved in the campaign,
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as we would in any of the other three provinces, were they to go that route and have the opportunity,
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the people of those provinces have the opportunity to express either for or against independence.
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I want to ask you to address the issue of vote splitting. So again, because I'm in Alberta,
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I always look at these things through a very Alberta specific lens. But the Wild Rose and the
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PCs, they were both accused of vote splitting. And then Rachel Notley was able to run up the middle and
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and win real win election back in 2015. How do you address concerns and accusations of well,
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you're just going to bleed votes off the federal PC or the federal conservative party. And for that
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reason, you're actually helping Justin Trudeau. How I would address that Justin Trudeau is going to win
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anyway. So whatever. But how would you address that? Well, I guess I'll start by the point that you
00:24:00.780
just made for me, Sheila, is that, you know, you asked me earlier in our conversation what drove me
00:24:06.620
to take the stand that I have now. And it was the results of 2019, which very clearly reelected
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Mr. Trudeau and his administration, albeit in a minority government situation, but before the votes
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were ever got to being counted in Manitoba and west from there. So that's the first point to me.
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The second is that, and I've been very clear on this, I've actually, because it's come up and up
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many, many times over the last six, seven months, Sheila, I've been very clear on this. I've made a
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number of videos that are up on our Facebook page and our website and our YouTube channel to try and
00:24:45.980
communicate this to concerned Western Canadians. First of all, when I reflect back on my personal
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experience and that of the Reform Party that resulted in three successive Liberal majority
00:25:02.220
governments under former Prime Minister Jean Chrétien, when I reflect back on that, the vast majority of
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vote splitting took place in Central and Eastern Canada, especially in Ontario, where the vast majority of
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the votes and seats are. I have already explained that Maverick's not going to run down there.
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So Mr. O'Toole and his Conservative Party can have a free run down there as long as they can keep Max
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Bernier and the PPC at bay. That will be the only party I suspect that will be seriously, at least
00:25:35.740
potentially splitting the vote down there with the Conservatives. So I would hope to see a very strong
00:25:43.260
head-to-head contest between the Liberals and the Conservatives in Central and Eastern Canada.
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They'll have a free run, certainly from Maverick's point of view, because we're not going to be there.
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In the West, there's 104 ridings in the four Western provinces. We've identified
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over 40 where the Conservatives won by such massive majorities, 60, 70, in some cases, 80% of the vote
00:26:09.100
was cast in those ridings to Conservative candidates. Obviously, if you split those
00:26:15.420
Conservative votes right down the middle, and we didn't draw a single vote from the NDP or Liberals
00:26:21.020
in those ridings, and we only took Conservative votes, either a Conservative or a Maverick will be
00:26:27.100
elected. There is no way that one of the other three parties is going to be elected in those ridings,
00:26:33.020
simply because the people in those ridings by far predominantly support Conservative candidates.
00:26:41.100
So what we've been saying is, yeah, there will be vote splitting in those ridings, but it'll only
00:26:45.980
be a vote split between a Conservative and a Maverick. And the people in those ridings where we have the
00:26:51.260
opportunity to field a quality candidate are going to have an opportunity. They can vote as they've done
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for over 100 years and send another Conservative to Ottawa, likely an Opposition Conservative, as you just
00:27:05.740
said, if the polls are to be believed. Or they can send a Maverick, which will be a true representation
00:27:13.180
of their views, their hopes and dreams to Ottawa to represent them in the next Parliament. That's the
00:27:20.140
choice they're going to have. In the other ridings, we're going to try as hard as we can
00:27:26.220
not to contest those ridings where vote splitting might occur and a Liberal NDP or a Green candidate
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could potentially win. We'll have to see when the election is and we'll have to see how it unfolds.
00:27:41.500
But at the present time, because of our infancy, our intention is to only run in those very strongly
00:27:48.540
held Conservative ridings in Western Canada. You might ask where they are. Obviously, as you would have
00:27:55.260
guessed. Predominantly, they're in Alberta. Predominantly, they're in rural Western Canada.
00:28:02.220
There's, I think, 30 of them of the 40-some are in Alberta. The remainder, there's quite a number,
00:28:11.180
eight or nine in Saskatchewan, and then four or five in Manitoba and the same in British Columbia.
00:28:18.220
So those are the ridings we're focused on. And as I say, because we're very young and in
00:28:23.340
organizing, we've got, as of the moment, and it could change by tonight, we have 17 EDAs or
00:28:33.420
constituency organizations, associations organized to field candidates. So we have 17. So we're a long
00:28:43.900
Now, would you be open to forming a coalition government with the Conservative Party if the
00:28:51.580
Conservative Party was in that position in the next election?
00:28:58.140
I, well, I, first of all, let me say that my role is not to lead Mavericks into the House of Commons.
00:29:07.660
I've served my time, as it were. And I'm quite happy to spend what time I have left on this planet
00:29:17.980
with my grandchildren. That's what I was doing before I got involved in this. So my role, and I
00:29:22.620
think the role of the majority of the board that I represent, is to lay the foundations for the Maverick
00:29:29.660
Party and to give Westerners, where we can, a voting option for the next election. And then hopefully we
00:29:38.060
will see a very serious transitional generational change in Maverick. That's what we're seeking.
00:29:46.380
So we would hope that candidates will come forward, including at some point in the near future
00:29:53.260
candidates for the leadership of the party. So our role is to, you know, build the building blocks
00:29:59.500
for the future for Maverick and then turn it over to the next generation. So I'm not going to be
00:30:04.700
running in the next election. So as your question about a coalition, a potential coalition with the
00:30:10.860
Conservatives is certainly premature and it would be out of my hands in any event. But I will say this,
00:30:17.180
I think it's quite natural to assume that Maverick MPs, once elected to Parliament, if it's in the best
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interests of Western Canada and their constituents, Maverick MPs would work very productively with a
00:30:32.780
minority Conservative government. I think that's a no-brainer. I think that, you know, however many
00:30:39.900
MPs we elect, they would do that. That would be my expectation, but that would be up to the caucus
00:30:47.180
to determine at the time. They're going to be governed by one of our, and I would say probably
00:30:53.580
one of our primary guiding principles for our party and our future members of Parliament. And that is,
00:31:00.860
they will take, as you suggested earlier, they will take a similar approach and strategy to the
00:31:05.820
House of Commons as the Bloc Quebecois does for Quebec. And it's pretty simple and it's easy to adhere to.
00:31:11.980
If a bill motion legislation is good for Western Canada and their constituents, they'll vote for it,
00:31:21.180
and they'll speak for it, and they'll thump their desk for it. That's my expectation. And if it isn't,
00:31:28.140
just like the Bloc Quebecois does for Quebec, they'll vote against it. So, pretty simple strategy,
00:31:34.380
as long as a minority Conservative government was adhering to that and not bringing forward
00:31:39.340
absolutely appalling legislation like Justin Trudeau did on C48 and C69, which we could discuss.
00:31:48.140
As long as that wasn't the case, Maverick MPs, I'm sure, would try to work productively in the
00:31:55.180
best interests of Western Canada with a Conservative minority government. But I don't think you would see
00:32:01.020
a formal coalition. It would be an arrangement similar to what the NDP has in supporting Justin Trudeau today.
00:32:09.100
You know, it's funny, because the NDP felt either broke, their leader's a flake. But boy,
00:32:14.780
they sure hold the balance of power, and they're sure dragging the Liberals even further left. And
00:32:19.340
so, for me, looking at the potential of the Maverick Party being able to drag the Conservative Party
00:32:25.180
in the other direction by helping them hold the balance of power, I think that's probably the ideal
00:32:29.900
outcome in the next election. I wanted to ask you, sorry, go ahead.
00:32:35.180
Well, and I'll just say on that, just say on that, Sheila, just a quick comment that
00:32:39.580
that's why I and Maverick Party wish Erin O'Toole and the Conservatives the best of luck
00:32:45.980
in Central and Eastern Canada. Two-thirds, roughly two-thirds of the seats are east of Manitoba.
00:32:52.460
You know, I say to Erin O'Toole, fill your boots. Go head-to-head with Trudeau down there,
00:32:58.140
and we wish you the best of luck. We want to get rid of Trudeau as much as anybody else.
00:33:03.020
But as we've already been discussing in this conversation, Sheila, the answer is not for the
00:33:07.740
West to continue voting Conservative. And we all should realize that, that we have to change something.
00:33:14.540
And we believe a step forward would be electing Maverick MPs.
00:33:19.020
Now, I wanted to ask you about the Conservative Party convention that just took place.
00:33:24.700
There were some things in there that stood out to me as a Westerner. For example, Erin O'Toole's speech,
00:33:31.500
where he addressed Quebec directly in French, and spoke to issues of Quebec autonomy,
00:33:39.980
speaking about immigration, about culture. And you know what? Great. But for Alberta and Saskatchewan,
00:33:48.060
we were sort of a throwaway line in that speech, where he said something to the effect of, you know,
00:33:54.380
if you want to feel secure in Confederation, well then just vote Conservative. But that's all we got.
00:34:00.700
There was no addressing directly the issues where we feel the same sort of alienation that a lot of
00:34:06.860
Quebecers feel. And to me, my takeaway from that speech and that convention was that the Conservative
00:34:13.740
Party of Canada feels entitled to my vote. They haven't really earned it.
00:34:21.900
Exactly. I couldn't agree with you more. I did a short video. I think it was number 28 that I've done
00:34:29.740
since last June, which is they're all up on our website. And so I did it on the weekend. I think
00:34:41.020
it was Sunday. So right after the Conservative Convention ended. And it was sort of my quick
00:34:46.780
analysis of Erin O'Toole's speech. And I had a little bit of fun with it. But there was an underlying,
00:34:54.700
very serious question. And it basically is exactly what you just said, Sheila. He spoke at considerable
00:35:03.180
length to display his command of French. I don't speak French and don't understand French. So I
00:35:10.140
don't know how well it was as far as his command of the language. But as you say, he certainly made a huge
00:35:19.420
effort to reach out to Quebecers to suggest that the block and the way they traditionally vote is not
00:35:27.900
the answer that they should come to the Conservative Party. I don't have a problem with that. But as I
00:35:32.940
said in my video, I too, I think as most Westerners, certainly most Western conservatives were looking for
00:35:40.860
some sign of recognition of the historical and current grievances, legitimate grievances of Western Canada
00:35:49.340
and Canadians, and some solutions. And instead, what did he say? His central message was that
00:35:58.460
Conservatives have to change to appeal to urbanites. OK, that to me was a slap in the face to every rural
00:36:06.860
Westerner in particular. You know, in other words, you're expected to change a lot of your thinking
00:36:13.900
so that people in Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa might vote for Aaron O'Toole. That was his message.
00:36:21.340
And so I pointed out the hypocrisy of on one hand saying that Conservatives have to change,
00:36:27.660
but on the other hand saying, well, wait a minute. No, in Western Canada, we want you to vote the
00:36:32.780
same as you always have. So change, but don't change. And I too, as you said, Sheila, I was quite
00:36:43.100
frankly, very disappointed that he didn't properly address Western alienation in some form. He had one
00:36:52.380
line about a drive by smear against Wexit movement. But other than that, he didn't really mention it.
00:36:57.980
And as you say, his answer to it, to this threat to national unity, which I obviously believe that
00:37:06.220
it's a very real threat, given the growth of Maverick Party. His answer was, well, the best answer is for
00:37:14.540
your security and comfort is to elect a Conservative government. As if, you know, him getting the job and
00:37:21.980
being able to sit in the PMO office, the Prime Minister's office is somehow going to solve our
00:37:27.500
problems. Well, we know for a fact it's not. And so I thought actually his speech really played into
00:37:33.740
the central messages of Maverick. I did too. I felt like more of a separatist after I watched that.
00:37:42.300
And in particular, when he said, you know, the debate around climate change is over. Now,
00:37:47.180
whatever you might feel about climate change or don't feel about climate change, I don't think
00:37:52.060
the debate should ever be over with regard to any contentious political issue. And for me,
00:37:58.140
it is definitely a political issue and less of a scientific one. And again, that felt like
00:38:05.180
Erin O'Toole was willing to concede Western issues to appeal to Eastern voters, because conceding
00:38:13.180
the high ground on that issue trickles down into all sorts of issues of the carbon tax, of pipelines,
00:38:21.580
of oil and gas development, export issues. And it felt like we, in the West here, we were being
00:38:29.580
basically abandoned, neglected, taken for granted, again, to earn those downtown Toronto,
00:38:36.140
downtown Montreal votes that I don't think he's going to earn anyway.
00:38:39.180
Well, as I said, I wish him luck in however he wants to approach that, whatever platform he comes
00:38:48.060
up with. Another big part of his speech, of course, because he emphasized it, was that he intends to
00:38:54.860
come up with a serious plan to combat climate change. Look, myself and Maverick Party, we haven't
00:39:04.140
released our climate change platform yet. I'm not going to say it's going to be a serious plan,
00:39:13.500
but it's going to be different because I don't believe that the approach taken by virtually all
00:39:20.060
the other parties and the range, but you're all on the side that Canada must do more. Canada must do more.
00:39:26.540
In other words, we need to flog ourselves and punish ourselves in order to show leadership globally that
00:39:34.140
we're fighting manmade climate change. Okay. And you're quite right, whether it's this carbon tax,
00:39:40.700
which I might remind Westerners that Justin Trudeau again broke another major promise when he said he
00:39:48.140
wasn't going to raise the carbon tax. It's going up 33% on the 1st of April. 33%.
00:39:56.620
Who does that punish? It punishes the working poor by far the most, right? Because increasingly,
00:40:05.100
Canadians that are on the edge as far as making decisions whether they can afford to heat their homes,
00:40:11.020
drive their vehicle to work, if we ever get back to work, or I lost my train of thought.
00:40:21.740
That's why we need generational change, Sheila. We need the next generation, the new younger leader for
00:40:30.540
Maverick. But all joking aside, the reality is that our approach to climate change will be different. I
00:40:38.940
believe that the Conservative Party under Andrew Scheer, ironically, had a pretty solid policy,
00:40:45.020
by and large, in the last election campaign. The problem was that Conservatives themselves seemed
00:40:50.540
fearful of explaining it to Canadians. So our approach is really going to focus especially on all the
00:40:59.500
improvements that we've made, most of which has been accomplished in the private sector, most of which
00:41:07.980
has not been forced upon them by governments. Certainly the oil and gas industry, mining, agriculture,
00:41:17.020
a lot of the primary resource industries have taken great strides on the issue of the protection of the
00:41:27.180
environment. Okay. And we should be having a worldwide summit, I believe, to discuss how we can distribute that
00:41:37.340
type of technology to the world's large emitters. If we want to get serious about fighting global,
00:41:45.020
and I don't call it global climate change, but certainly global pollution, real pollution,
00:41:50.380
we're not talking about carbon now, then we should be sharing that technology and figure out a way to share
00:41:57.340
that technology with the Chinas and Russia and India and Indonesia that are the real problem when it
00:42:05.260
comes to emissions worldwide. Rather than trying to punish Canadians through attacks or through bringing
00:42:12.140
in regulation that cripples our industries and puts us at a great disadvantage with our global
00:42:20.140
global competition. Why are so many oil and gas companies and other industry leading companies
00:42:27.500
leaving Canada? That's what we need to determine and we need to fight against that. So a long-winded
00:42:35.100
answer is the way of a former politician, Sheila, but what I'm suggesting is that you're quite correct,
00:42:43.100
again, that Aaron O'Toole should not be following the lead of these other parties that are saying,
00:42:49.980
well, you know, I'm going to buy into the Paris climate change accord. I'm going to buy into net emissions
00:42:58.220
by 2050, you know, and no matter what damage it does to the economy. Now, in fairness to Aaron,
00:43:04.620
he did say jobs come first in his speech. And I did take a bit of heart from that. But we really won't
00:43:11.820
know whether he's true to that until we see what his serious plan is about climate change.
00:43:18.940
Well, yeah, like when I listened to his speech, I thought, you know what, if you think that global
00:43:22.940
emissions are the problem, then Western Canada is the solution. We are not the problem. Because we have
00:43:29.820
spent decades developing technology to bring emissions down, if you care about those sorts of
00:43:34.860
things. One other thing that wasn't in the speech I wanted to ask you about before I let you go,
00:43:39.740
because you've been so generous with your time. One thing missing from Aaron O'Toole's speech was
00:43:44.620
also the issue of civil liberties versus the pandemic. I didn't hear anything about that.
00:43:49.340
I didn't hear really anything about the, I mean, of course, a lot of these civil liberties
00:43:55.420
infringements are coming at the municipal level and at the provincial level. But I think there are
00:43:59.340
things that all politicians should care about the rights of citizens. And I didn't hear a word
00:44:05.580
about the COVID hotels. So Justin Trudeau snatching up Canadian citizens and stuffing them into these
00:44:11.660
COVID jails against their will and against the Charter of Rights and Freedom Section 6 provides for
00:44:18.940
mobility rights. I didn't hear Aaron O'Toole say anything about that or free speech or anything like
00:44:26.060
that. And I thought, you know, these are deeply conservative issues, free speech and rights.
00:44:31.660
And I just didn't hear anything about that. What would be the maverick approach, I guess,
00:44:36.860
to civil liberties and in particular, the pandemic?
00:44:39.740
Well, because as you said in your question, Sheila, the vast majority of the restrictions that have
00:44:49.980
been being imposed come from provincial governments, as they should. I would say that Maverick has been
00:44:57.980
very hesitant to take a strong position one way or the other. And let me answer this way. Am I and is
00:45:05.500
Maverick concerned about this infringement of civil liberties? Absolutely. And we should be. And every
00:45:14.220
Canadian should be concerned and keeping an eye on that to the greatest extent possible. And I fully
00:45:20.300
support them expressing their opinion one way or another on that. Having said that, I have a fair
00:45:27.420
degree of sympathy, having been in government and having sat at a cabinet table where there's any number
00:45:34.220
of very difficult decisions are grappled with as a government trying to ensure the best for their
00:45:42.140
citizens. I have a lot of sympathy for the provincial governments as they grapple with this issue.
00:45:48.940
And so there are two schools of thought, Sheila. One is, you know, that the government must do
00:45:55.260
everything possible to protect the vulnerable. Okay. So that's on sort of one extreme, no matter what,
00:46:01.500
even if it means killing our economy, apparently, you have to try and protect the vulnerable.
00:46:06.140
And then on the other extreme, it's the people that say civil liberties come first. And, you know,
00:46:11.420
if people have to die, well, so be it. And the vast majority of Canadians and the people I care about
00:46:17.820
the most, which is Western Canadians, since that's where Maverick is, I believe fall in the middle.
00:46:24.300
They're quite willing to give up a civil liberty, if you want to call it that,
00:46:28.700
and wear a mask in order to enter a grocery store. They, you know, try as best they can for social
00:46:35.580
distancing. These types of, I would call fairly minor infringements of their rights. Okay.
00:46:45.900
And that's where the majority fall and certainly where I fall. You know, I'm willing to do that.
00:46:50.700
If, if it's even my new minutely possible that I'm helping to protect a vulnerable person by doing
00:46:57.740
that. So as I say, I've been trying very hard not to be overly critical. I think that there's lots of
00:47:05.180
people out there that are being quite critical and you know, that's, that's their democratic right.
00:47:11.180
You know, I uphold that. At the federal level, yes, specifically about these hotels, whether it's
00:47:18.780
right or wrong, I'll leave the courts and people that are fighting that to determine that. We heard
00:47:26.700
some stories about employees working there, sexually attacking people that were interned there. Of course,
00:47:37.580
the justice system and the government should be seized with those types of allegations and drive that
00:47:45.900
forward as quickly as possible to resolution. I will say there's lots of criticism that is justified
00:47:54.700
and directed at all levels of government of how this has been handled for the last year now,
00:47:59.180
where we've been into this for a year. You look at the fact that originally,
00:48:03.660
um, Justin Trudeau was very slow to close our borders in particular flights from China. Uh,
00:48:11.020
you know, he said he and his, and, uh, Madam Tam, the, uh, the federal health officer said,
00:48:17.020
you know, nothing to worry about here, folks, you know, we'll just tighten things up a little
00:48:21.020
bit and we'll be fine. Well, we weren't fine. Uh, and, uh, and then, you know, it progressed from
00:48:26.700
there or digressed from there. I perhaps, and, uh, you know, then the next thing we heard, uh,
00:48:32.620
that was finally revealed was he gave away, uh, how much of our, uh, PPE, our personal protective
00:48:38.940
equipment, uh, to China and other nations around the world. Then we found out, oh, wait, wait a minute.
00:48:43.820
Uh, you know, it's important for our healthcare workers to have that equipment. Oh, we don't have
00:48:48.700
enough. You know, so they've bungled this unquestionably from the very get go in how they've
00:48:55.100
handled this. They were highly critical of Sweden for not closing down their economy. I don't see
00:49:01.180
where Sweden's a hell of a lot worse off on a per capita basis than Canada is. Uh, and then the
00:49:06.460
vaccine more, more, uh, recently the vaccine procurement, he promised us, he being Trudeau promised
00:49:12.300
Canadians. Don't worry. I've got your back. I'm going to look after this for those Canadians that
00:49:16.940
want to be vaccinated and not all do. Um, you know, we'll make sure it's available. Well,
00:49:23.020
what's happened? We're number 43 in the, in the world, as far as procuring and administering vaccine
00:49:29.420
to those people that want to get the shot. Um, I noticed just yesterday that California
00:49:35.500
is moving close to having half of their citizens, some, uh, you know, 20 some million people
00:49:42.620
vaccinated. We've got a 10th of that roughly, uh, vaccinated and, and they're threatening,
00:49:49.340
you know, we were talking earlier about citizens initiative. They're talking about
00:49:52.940
recalling their governor because they're so upset with his ability to, uh, uh, to procure
00:50:00.220
the vaccine and get the shot to the people that want it. So lots of room for criticism. I think
00:50:07.340
Justin Trudeau, as he has with so many files, the evidence is ever clear, Sheila, this guy is the
00:50:14.460
most incompetent prime minister in the history of Canada, bar none. And that the central Canada
00:50:21.500
and Eastern Canada is still intent, according to the polls in reelecting him for a third term
00:50:28.380
is not just astounding. It's appalling. I completely agree. Now, Jay, I know you've
00:50:34.540
been so again, very generous with your time. What is the best way if my viewers liked what
00:50:40.540
you had to say, they want to get involved, what's the best way for them to do that?
00:50:46.380
To go to our website, Sheila, thank you for the reminder, uh, maverickparty.ca. We're easy to find.
00:50:52.780
We're on Facebook, we're on YouTube, uh, and we have our own website where, uh, people can volunteer.
00:50:58.940
Uh, they can buy a membership. It's, uh, 10 bucks. It's 10 bucks in your, your, yourself,
00:51:04.620
your children and your grandchildren's future. Uh, I'm doing this. It came out of retirement
00:51:10.460
because I have three young grandchildren that I just cannot see under the current system that we're
00:51:16.300
governed under in Canada, where they are going to have anywhere near the opportunities I was blessed
00:51:21.500
with. And, uh, that's why I'm involved and why increasingly a lot of Westerners are involved with
00:51:27.340
Maverick. Well, Jay, I think that's a great place to leave the interview. Again, thank you so much
00:51:32.220
for your time. You answered a lot of questions, um, that I had. Um, and I think you, uh, might have
00:51:39.020
alleviated a lot of concerns that people who are, uh, reluctant, uh, separatists may have had about
00:51:46.860
issues of vote splitting and, um, you know, other concerns that they may have had with the idea of
00:51:52.380
throwing their vote behind a separatist party. Well, uh, thank you very much, Sheila. And maybe
00:51:59.180
I'll just add that, uh, ask people when they go to our website, check out our guiding principles,
00:52:05.740
because we believe we're neither right or left. We get accused of being alt right. It's nonsense.
00:52:11.500
Uh, we believe we're a common sense Western party that is advocating for Western Canada in,
00:52:18.540
in any form, whether it's greater autonomy within Confederation, failing that it's laying the
00:52:23.580
foundation for us independent Western nation, as I said earlier. And, uh, I think it's just common
00:52:29.020
sense based upon our, our 150 year history and our experience down through that history.
00:52:49.420
Well, there you have it. I let Jay Hill have his say. I tried to ask questions. I thought our viewers
00:52:55.900
would like answers to now, you know how to get ahold of them. If you want to get involved,
00:53:00.460
you know how to do it. If you have criticisms to send him, you know how to do that too. Well,
00:53:05.740
everybody, that's the show for tonight. Thanks for hanging in there. Thanks for tuning in.
00:53:11.260
We'll see everybody back here or wherever I might be at the same time next week. And remember,
00:53:18.860
don't let the government tell you that you've had too much to think.