Maxime Bernier joins Ezra Levenant to talk about his new party, immigration, and the politically correct media. It's September 26, 2019, and this is The Ezra LeeVant Show, featuring a feature interview with the former Conservative Party of Canada MP Maxim Bernier.
00:15:10.640Your campaign manager now, Hamish Marshall, was directly involved with building Rebel.
00:15:16.220Why did you choose him to run the campaign?
00:15:18.260Are you not at all worried about messages of sending out now?
00:15:22.360I mean, that Rebel has gone so far down this white supremacist path?
00:15:25.640That's a really weird question that I can assure you is not in the top 10 list of questions that 99.99999% of Canadians want to know about the leader of the Conservative Party.
00:15:37.140It's just Wendy Mesley and her kooky boss.
00:15:39.940It was also weird of Andrew Scheer to kowtow to that.
00:16:01.840Speaking out against the federal bill, C-16, and gender pronouns and so on, the federal government cut your funding for research.
00:16:10.700Rebel Media came in and did a crowdfunding project for you, raised about $200,000.
00:16:16.040After Charlottesville and the riots, the protests there, many people cut ties with Rebel Media, including the Conservative leader Andrew Scheer,
00:16:27.140saying that it could be seen as giving hate groups a platform.
00:17:15.240We have people here of a variety of races and backgrounds, new Canadians.
00:17:21.560Your white supremacist stuff is really unbecoming, and it makes you look like a fool who will read anything put in your teleprompter, which I guess you do.
00:17:33.560I've got Maxine Bernier on the show today, and I've introduced him a bit five minutes ago.
00:17:40.660My monologue today is actually about this weird all-left extremism that's creeping into the mainstream media, and it's obviously found a home.
00:17:49.260But it's also about deplatforming and marginalizing conservatives.
00:17:53.120It was the attempt by the media to tell conservative leaders, Jordan Peterson, Andrew Scheer, Maxine Bernier, who they can and can't talk to.
00:22:20.160They really want to beat Justin Trudeau.
00:22:22.820And a lot of our viewers remember the great efforts to unite the right.
00:22:26.860Can I ask you, on behalf of our viewers who like you but are skeptical of this decision, those four principles you talked about, I bet if Andrew Scheer were right here, and of course he isn't right here because he refuses to talk to the rebel,
00:22:42.720he would say he agrees with those four principles.
00:22:45.300Other than the dairy cartel, what are the specific differences between your People's Party and the Conservative Party?
00:23:10.400And it is unfair also for provinces who are receiving money because there's no incentive for these provinces to develop their own natural resources.
00:23:20.620So I'm the only politician who speaks about that.
00:23:23.660I'm the only politician who speaks about getting rid of corporate welfare.
00:23:28.220And I'm serious when I'm speaking about that.
00:23:31.760We want to be sure to abolish the around $5 billion that the federal government is giving to big corporations.
00:23:38.260We want to stop that and lower taxes for every single entrepreneur in this country.
00:23:42.900We think that it is not fair to tax a small business entrepreneur in Calgary and using their money, that money, to give that to a big corporation like GM and Bombardy.
00:24:03.940We want to be sure that everybody will be able to have good health care services by, first of all, stopping to tax Canadians and giving that money to provinces.
00:24:15.560We want to lower the taxes at the federal level and let the province tax for their own responsibility, like health care.
00:24:22.800So we and provinces will have an incentive to develop a new way to offer that services to their people.
00:24:33.140So with maybe more private and other ways, like in other countries, like in France, like in Sweden, like in other European countries where they have a better system than in Canada.
00:24:43.840So politicians are afraid to have this kind of discussion.
00:24:47.680So that's a big difference between our party and the other one.
00:24:51.100And we're not afraid to have debate about that.
00:24:53.920And, you know, we will take the time to explain our policies to Canadians.
00:24:59.800And that's why we will be able to have support.
00:25:03.560And the other part of your question was about being able to be the alternative.
00:25:10.060And I think we would be able to be the alternative because, first of all, we have a lot of support from former conservatives who are coming with us,
00:25:44.340They said, Maxime, I want to join your party and deal with you because you want to get rid of corporate welfare and you want to abolish the cartel of supply management.
00:26:38.740I was making notes as you talked about equalization reform, corporate welfare reform, health care.
00:26:43.660A lot of those ideas remind me of the early days of the Conservative Party or more to the point, the Reform Party and the Canadian Alliance.
00:26:53.640It sounds to me like you're suggesting that today's Conservative Party under Andrew Scheer is really a party of the establishment and not a party of insurgent ideas.
00:27:05.820Is that a fair assessment of your view?
00:27:56.160And they know if we want to have a freer and a more prosperous country, we'll need to have these kind of reforms.
00:28:02.260Well, let me ask you about one more area of politics because, you know, corporate welfare, that should be pretty easy for any Conservative to support reforms.
00:28:11.840And health care is no longer the third rail of politics that it was maybe 15 years ago because people know it's not working.
00:28:19.500But there is one area of politics that I think the federal Conservatives and almost everyone else in the country, especially in the media, is terrified to talk about.
00:28:31.500And that is open borders, immigration, illegal immigrants, and especially the Islamic nature and effect of some of these migrants, whether it's the hijab or the full face obscuring niqab in public or in courts.
00:28:49.440These are subjects that I think people want to talk about.
00:28:52.860But if they even ask basic questions or raise concerns, they're called racist or whatnot.
00:28:58.960Now, you've engaged in some of these conversations on Twitter.
00:29:03.880Is that part of your People's Party as well?
00:29:07.060Do you have views on immigration, multiculturalism, and integration and assimilation?
00:29:31.360So I don't want our country to be like in France, actually, right now, in Europe, where they have challenges with the integration of our new immigrants.
00:30:53.620Do you believe that we should have a test to make sure someone embraces Canadian values like the separation of mosque and state or the equality of men and women?
00:31:04.100I couldn't get an answer out of Andrew Scheer.
00:31:06.840Do you feel more confident on that question?
00:31:10.080But first of all, as you know, Kelly Leach, during the leadership campaign for the Conservative Party of Canada, raised that issue.
00:31:21.040I don't know how we will be sure that these people that are coming here are sharing our values and our principle, Western society values and principle.
00:31:38.900Somebody told me, Maxime, if you ask for a test, they will tell you what you want to hear and it would be very difficult.
00:31:45.620So I'm open to find the best way to be sure that people who are coming in this country are coming for the real reason and are coming because they want to be in a country that is free, that is respect the rule of law, the equality between men and women, the distinction between the church and politics.
00:32:07.800And I don't know what would be the best way to be sure that these people are coming because they share our values and they want to be in a freer country.
00:32:18.020But what happened in the past, if you look at the past 65 years, 70 years, people, they were coming here and they were sharing our values.
00:32:28.000So maybe we need to improve our system, but we don't need to throw everything out and start from the beginning.
00:32:36.660What we did a couple of years ago, the point system, it's a good system, maybe we must improve it, but I don't have the solution about it right now.
00:32:54.900I have just one more question on this.
00:32:56.700And again, even if you don't have a concrete answer, just the way you're thinking about it or your process is useful to me.
00:33:05.320I know that Justin Trudeau and Ahmed Hassan, the immigration minister, have talked about increasing the number of immigrants to Canada to 300,000 a year.
00:33:15.820I've also seen regular opinion polls that have gotten sharper against that.
00:33:21.860Less than 10% of Canadians, including according to the government's own polls, support an increase.
00:33:29.780Do you have any thoughts on the actual number?
00:33:33.660Should it be where it is now, around 250?
00:33:42.460First of all, you're right that the Trudeau government, they want to have 310,000 people a year, new Canadians.
00:33:49.180They will increase that to 340,000 a year in two years from now.
00:33:53.860And they receive a report, the Barton report, and that report is asking for going up to 450,000 a year.
00:34:01.700So what I want, I want us to go back on the average that we had, the average of immigrants that we had under Stephen Harper for the last 10 years that we were in power, that the conservatives were in power.
00:36:11.660And for me, it's an indication that people, you know, are fed up with the old parties that are saying almost the same thing.
00:36:20.460And they're afraid to have real debates.
00:36:22.940But the most important, they want, they use the people's money.
00:36:26.740When I'm saying they, the old parties, they're using the people's money to buy votes for special interest group.
00:36:33.700They're doing that with the cartel of supply management at the federal level.
00:36:37.600So, and that way of doing politics, taxing people, and after that, giving that money to a special interest group for having their support, I think people are fed up with that.
00:36:49.180And that's not the way that we will do politics.
00:36:51.700We are doing politics for all Canadians, for the people of our country.
00:36:56.800That's why we are calling our party the People's Party of Canada.
00:37:00.340So, I think people, it's a sign in New Brunswick.
00:37:03.520And for us, it's looking very good because we are at around 12% in the poll right now after three weeks.
00:37:10.900And we can just increase, and I hope we will, and we'll show to everybody that would be the right alternative, the alternative in 2019.
00:37:22.320I want to shift to Quebec's provincial election.
00:37:25.020And I'm not expecting you to endorse one party or the other, although if you want to, let me know you're thinking on that.
00:37:30.480I find it fascinating because I think, as an outsider, and I don't speak very good French, so I don't have a lot of information.
00:37:39.140But it looks to me like Quebec has more honest conversations about some of the cultural issues because Quebec has their French identity that they're trying to keep a hold of.
00:37:49.080So, they think about it, they talk about it, they worry about it.
00:37:51.800Some people would say Quebec was the first ethnic nationalist jurisdiction in North America, in a way.
00:37:59.980And what do you make about the discussions in that campaign?
00:38:04.820And what do you make of the rise of the coalition Avenir Quebec?
00:38:12.820I'd like your thoughts, and I'm not looking for you to weigh into that election, although feel free.
00:38:16.500I just want you to help teach the rest of the country what's going on there, and can it apply to the federal scene?
00:38:23.840Yeah, I don't want to interfere in provincial jurisdiction.
00:38:27.260But what I can say, the coalition, the Coalition Avenir Quebec, the CAC, the coalition,
00:38:34.460they're tied in the pole right now with the Liberals, and we don't know what will happen in a week from now.
00:38:40.820But yes, you're right, they opened a discussion about immigration, and they're the only party who is saying right now in Quebec that we must have a little bit less immigration.
00:38:52.660And I think Quebecers are used to that debate.
00:38:55.740And in English Canada, we are having, and I'm starting that debate also.
00:38:59.620So the coalition, it's a kind of a right-wing party, but for me, being a right-wing in Quebec, it's a little bit kind of a socialist party also.
00:39:12.720I don't know what will happen, but at least we have some discussion in Quebec about immigration, and it's going very well.
00:39:21.480Nobody is saying that the leader of Black Act is a racist.
00:39:25.380Nobody is saying that, and he's having that open discussion.
00:39:29.880So I hope that we can have that open discussion also in Canada, and I'm starting that debate right now.
00:39:38.980I'm very jealous because it seems like even if the mainstream media disagrees with the CAC body and their leader,
00:39:45.480they at least hear him out and report what he says, and they understand it's a legitimate,
00:39:51.280even if they disagree with him, they at least acknowledge it's a legitimate position.
00:39:55.980I'm jealous because I don't see that in English Canada.
00:39:59.160Do you agree that English Canada doesn't yet have the courage to have that same conversation?
00:40:05.380But what I'm saying, it's the mainstream media.
00:44:17.500And that's a smear job that they tried to do.
00:44:20.560And, you know, for me, the CBC, it's funded by us, by people's money, by Canadians.
00:44:27.100And there's no place for that at the CBC.
00:44:30.380If they want to be a leftist partisan, they can go at the private sector and work for, but not work for another broadcaster, but not at the CBC.
00:44:41.800So that's why I proposed during the leadership campaign a big reform of the CBC, cutting their budget and asking the CBC to be like the PBS in the state.
00:44:52.040And people who want to give money to the CBC will be able to do that.
00:44:56.540And taxpayers won't be forced to give money to the CBC.
00:45:01.640So it's I was very disappointed at the CBC when that happened.
00:45:08.460Well, you are the first member of parliament that I can remember to in any serious fashion challenge the CBC.
00:45:17.520See, that's another thing that I think the conservative party of Andrew Scheer is afraid of.
00:45:22.480I think they're afraid of talking about cultural issues.
00:45:25.000And I think they're terrified of offending the media party.
00:45:28.740But I think the CBC, Maxime, after that interview with you, I think they doubled down.
00:45:33.420Let me show you this quick clip of Paul Wells.
00:45:36.860He's from I think he's still with McLean's if they're still around.
00:45:47.920Look, there's no part of his stance on immigration and identity that is libertarian.
00:45:51.780He wants to lead a libertarian party and he also wants to lead an anti-immigrant party.
00:45:55.980His supporters on Twitter seem to be that tiny Venn intersection of people who think it's great that Donald Trump is the president of the United States.
00:46:03.080And people who think that Maxime Bernier would be like Donald Trump.
00:46:06.220You cannot have been paying much attention to Max Bernier over the last 20 years to entertain that fantasy very far.
00:46:15.000So basically, his voter base right now is the stupidest people on Twitter.
00:46:19.960And so we'll see how far that gets him.
00:46:30.940It's another thing for him even to insult you.
00:46:32.960And I suppose that's the price a politician pays.
00:46:35.380But I think the sneering scoffing at grassroots taxpayers and citizens and the laughing at his own scoffing and the other host there saying, well, no comment.
00:46:46.900I don't think the CBC knows what they look like to ordinary people.
00:46:53.540I think that they look imperious and condescending.
00:46:57.400And frankly, Maxime, if the CBC were to do that every single day, I think your support would grow just based on anger against the CBC.
00:47:07.620You know, you have to, like I said during a press conference, I said, when I'm going to see, when I will see a fake news, I will call it a fake news.
00:51:55.320And so we're going to cover you as the news.
00:51:57.480And you can say what you want to our people.
00:51:59.340But I just thought it was odd that it feels like there's a little club, a little clique, both in politics and in the media, and you're not allowed to deviate from that little clique.
00:52:37.400But if you had one last message to say to our viewers, especially Conservatives, who feel like you should have stayed in the tent, what would your sales pitch be to them?
00:52:48.340After all our discussion, if someone's paying attention now, what would you say to them to close the deal?
00:52:53.040But first of all, I just want to say to you that for me, political correctness, it is finished, and we have to say what we believe.
00:53:02.800And what I'm saying to the Conservatives who are staying with Andrew Scheer right now, and they're not ready to be a part of our party, just watch us and, you know, look at our platform, read our platform, and you'll see that we are the real alternative, the real conservative alternative for this country.
00:53:20.920And I hope that we will be able to have your support in the near future.
00:53:25.780And if you want to know what we believe in, go on the website of the People's Party of Canada.ca.
00:53:31.540You have the platform, and you'll be able to be a funding member also until the 1st of November.
00:53:39.260So be part of history, come with us, and all together, we'll make this country great again.
00:53:46.920Well, thank you very much, Maxime Bernier, founder of the People's Party.
00:53:50.020I've really enjoyed our conversation, and I think you've given our viewers a lot to think about.
00:53:56.080And, hey, I am glad that you come on The Rebel because we are part of the national conversation just as much as Wendy Mansley is, and I appreciate your taking the time with our viewers.
00:54:20.020Hey, welcome back. On my monologue yesterday about the results of the provincial election in New Brunswick, Jonathan writes,
00:54:34.260As a New Brunswicker who worked on the campaign for a progressive conservative candidate, I can tell you that immigration had nothing to do with the election.
00:54:41.700Not one party discussed it. The split was caused by two factors.
00:54:45.080The polarizations of bilingualism, mostly French in the north and east coast in areas like Moncton and Shediac, and English in the south.
00:54:51.420As you can see, the French areas are predominantly liberal in English, is mostly PC.
00:54:56.460The People's Alliance actively encouraged vote splitting amongst the right, which caused many PC candidates to lose to the liberals, including my riding of Fredericton North.
00:55:03.920Make no mistake about it. If it weren't for the People's Alliance, we would have a PC majority in New Brunswick.
00:55:09.720I should also note that the PA leader, Chris Austin, was a PC member that lost his nomination and quit the party to form the People's Alliance in New Brunswick for the 2010 election.
00:55:20.040I say the lesson learned here is don't split the vote next year federally, or it could be worse than a minority conservative government.
00:55:26.740We could easily face a liberal NDP coalition in Ottawa.
00:55:30.700Well, Jonathan, thank you very much for providing that on-the-ground fact check.
00:55:36.300As I indicated yesterday, I was speculating, and I accept without question your report that the issue of immigration or whatnot would not have been discussed in ads, in debates.
00:55:50.540I wonder if it was in the back of people's minds. I just don't know.
00:55:53.240You're saying it wasn't part of the election. I'll take your word for it.
00:55:56.000I think it's in the back of everyone's minds as we see the news every day of the open borders, and people notice things.
00:56:04.160I think it's a factor. You're telling me it wasn't the decisive factor, and you're pointing out, and it's good timing that you do, that a splittism, I believe you, costs the PCs the majority there.
00:56:17.280I guess I would ask you, and we don't have to have a banter, but I would ask you or anyone else, did the People's Alliance have a legitimate policy cause to break away?
00:56:31.300It's one thing to say he was a PC candidate nominee who didn't get his way, but was there something more?
00:56:37.080Is there a flaw in the conservative party? Were they not conservative enough?
00:56:41.060Did they not take on the bilingualism issue enough?
00:56:44.060Is there something more other than personal vanity?
00:56:47.520And I ask that because obviously it wasn't just the leader who won. It was other MLAs, too.