James Kitchen of the Justice Centre is Protecting Civil Liberties
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
190.92596
Summary
James Kitchen is a lawyer with the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms and he and his team are on the front lines defending civil liberties during the times of the declared Pandemic lockdown in Alberta and Manitoba. They have filed legal challenges in both provinces against the lockdown.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
Hello Rebels, you're listening to a free audio only recording of my weekly Wednesday night show
00:00:04.680
The Gun Show. Tonight my guest is James Kitchen. He's a lawyer with the Justice Center for
00:00:10.840
Constitutional Freedoms and he and his team are on the front lines defending civil liberties
00:00:16.520
during the times of the COVID lockdown. Now if you like listening to the show then I promise
00:00:22.060
you're going to love watching it but in order to watch you need to be a subscriber to Rebel News
00:00:25.780
Plus. That's what we call our long form TV style shows here on Rebel News. Subscribers get access
00:00:32.420
to my show which I obviously think is worth the price of admission but you also get access to
00:00:38.320
David Menzies fun Friday night show Rebel Roundup as well as Ezra's nightly Ezra Levant show. Just
00:00:44.360
go to rebelnews.com slash subscribe to become a member of Rebel News Plus. It's only eight bucks
00:00:50.000
a month. I don't think you'll regret it and just for our podcast listeners you can save an extra
00:00:55.360
10% on a new Rebel News Plus membership by using the coupon code podcast when you subscribe. That's
00:01:03.440
rebelnews.com slash subscribe to become a member and if you like the show and I'm pretty confident
00:01:11.920
that you will please leave a five-star review wherever you find us. That's a great way to
00:01:15.760
support the show without having to spend a dime but it also helps other people find the show too.
00:01:20.420
Now please enjoy this audio only version of my show.
00:01:25.360
We're currently on month nine and a half of two weeks to flatten the curve and it would seem the
00:01:44.540
only things being completely flattened are our civil liberties and the economy. Rebel News of course is
00:01:51.380
fighting back. But we're not alone. I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed and you're watching The Gunn Show.
00:01:56.340
As you know, friends, Rebel News has been on the forefront of the fight against the coronavirus
00:02:18.020
restrictions on Canadians' lives from the very beginning. And we've been fighting the pandemic
00:02:24.420
fines being issued to people for just living their lives every step of the way with our
00:02:29.240
fightthefines.com initiative. If you go to that special website, you can get our help fighting a
00:02:34.900
coronavirus fine. You can see some of our previous cases and meet some of the previous people that
00:02:39.300
we've been helping. But you can also see some of our early victories. And of course, you can help in
00:02:44.420
our comprehensive legal battle against these pandemic restrictions at fightthefines.com.
00:02:50.740
Rebel News, though, we have a strong ally in the battle to preserve civil liberties from government
00:02:56.260
overreach during the declared pandemic. That ally is the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms.
00:03:03.780
They've filed legal challenges in both Alberta and Manitoba against the pandemic lockdown. And so tonight,
00:03:12.220
I have on the show James Kitchen. He's a lawyer with the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms.
00:03:18.120
And he's on the show tonight to talk about some of the great work that the JCCF is doing to keep
00:03:24.680
Canada just a little more free. James joins me tonight in an interview we recorded yesterday afternoon.
00:03:32.000
James, thanks for joining me. I wanted to have you on the show because I think the work that the Justice
00:03:51.200
Centre is doing right now, especially during the pandemic, but always, is so important in defense
00:03:58.840
of civil liberties. And I know there are a lot of organizations in this country who purport to be
00:04:05.860
about civil liberties. And you hear a lot about them when they would like you to renew your membership
00:04:11.540
in their organization, journalistic organizations, I'm looking at you. But the Justice Centre,
00:04:19.520
you folks really put your money where your mouth is. And I think you've played a strategic role
00:04:25.460
in keeping this country a little more free, especially during the pandemic. And the one
00:04:31.140
that I want to talk about first is the legal action that the Justice Centre has taken with regard
00:04:40.080
to the Alberta government lockdown. You are challenging the lockdowns in court.
00:04:44.400
That's right. We are the whole thing. But what you might not fully understand is that we're also
00:04:52.880
seeking an injunction. So, you know, normally court processes take years. We try to maybe cut that
00:05:00.020
down to maybe two and a half or three quarters of a year because we go through what's called an
00:05:03.740
application as opposed to a statement of claim. It speeds it up a little bit. There's no big trial.
00:05:07.760
We get one or two days in court. But even then, of course, the situation like this, you know,
00:05:12.500
four, six, eight months is a long time. People can't, a lot of people aren't going to make it
00:05:16.620
that long, right? So in addition to that, what we've done is we've applied for an injunction,
00:05:21.480
which is an emergency expedited hearing, right? And of course, the emergency and expedited in the
00:05:26.040
regal world means two weeks. So we filed this, we filed the whole thing, both the, you know,
00:05:31.540
originating application, it's called, and the injunction application early on here in December
00:05:35.460
with the goal of getting an injunction hearing before the court closed for Christmas, which we've
00:05:40.400
succeeded in doing. And I can tell you that we recently had a hearing scheduled for this Thursday,
00:05:47.200
December 17th. That has now been moved to Monday, December, what is that, 21st, I believe,
00:05:53.740
is the Monday, this coming Monday at 9.30 a.m. The public and media can attend that. It'll be a
00:05:59.420
virtual hearing. So, you know, the people who aren't lawyers have to fill out a quick little form.
00:06:06.100
Other than that, they can attend. So my understanding is that hundreds of people can virtually attend this
00:06:09.880
hearing as long as they, you know, sign and act in accordance with this agreement to not disrupt
00:06:14.840
the proceedings. And I encourage people to do that. So, you know, and my understanding from the
00:06:21.400
court is that we are going to get a decision almost immediately after that hearing. So if we are
00:06:27.520
successful, that will mean that the Christmas is uncancelled. And that's, that's one of the goals
00:06:33.540
of this, obviously. We're trying to get, we're trying to get people's businesses open. We're
00:06:37.700
trying to get people able to earn an income, obviously. And that's urgent because people
00:06:42.440
need to be able to do that for the next few months if they're going to survive until we can have a,
00:06:45.460
you know, a full hearing on the merits on this. But we're also trying to get the, the outdoor
00:06:50.020
gathering restrictions lifted so people can continue to protest this lawfully for the next few months,
00:06:54.060
which they have a constitutional right to do. And probably most importantly for most people,
00:06:58.200
the restriction that prevents them from lawfully celebrating Christmas together in their own
00:07:01.860
homes. We are trying to get that lifted. And if we're successful, then that means, you know,
00:07:05.800
as of, as of a day or two after the hearing, prior to Christmas, people will be able to lawfully
00:07:10.280
gather for Christmas again, which they always should have been able to. So if, if people are able,
00:07:18.620
I mean, I'm able, I'm probably gonna, but if people are lawfully allowed to celebrate Christmas
00:07:27.260
with their extended families over Christmas, it will be because of the work done by the Justice
00:07:33.940
Center for Constitutional Freedoms, is there, or are there any other civil liberties organizations
00:07:39.540
joining with you in this challenge? Not so far, certainly not for the injunction. It'll be
00:07:45.100
interesting to see if any join on to the main action. That's a good question. You know, I mulled this
00:07:51.120
over in my mind the other day, and I, I, I listed off all the ones that aren't, that are unlikely to
00:07:55.240
join. Um, I can only think of one, I suppose, other, maybe other words, other than the rebel,
00:08:01.200
perhaps, I can only think of one that would even consider doing this. And I won't, I won't name
00:08:05.060
them, but, um, I'll leave that to you. But, um, you know, yeah, this, this goes a lot farther than
00:08:10.300
the so-called civil liberties organizations would be willing to go, right? Um, you know, what, what,
00:08:15.140
I mean, ultimately what we're seeking is, is, is for all of the orders that infringe civil liberties,
00:08:19.820
and the vast majority of them do, and I'm sure there's a few provisions that don't, um, we're
00:08:24.460
asking for them all to be struck down, uh, because they're just, there just isn't the evidence to,
00:08:28.560
to justify the infringements, right? Um, it's not, it's not that nothing is going on. We have
00:08:33.500
something, obviously, we know that, but in order, in order to justify these sorts of egregious
00:08:37.860
wholesale infringements, you have to have something dramatic to, to, to, to, to support that justification.
00:08:43.280
And that's, that's missing. That's not there, right? The sky is not falling. People aren't dying in
00:08:48.600
the streets, right? We have a situation we got to deal with, but, uh, do we deal with that through
00:08:53.560
normal measures or do we deal with that, you know, through the, to the, to the complete destruction
00:08:57.800
of the economy and of people's liberties and really of the whole, um, the whole thing that
00:09:03.880
makes life worth the living? I mean, you know, Christmas is, is, is massive for people emotionally,
00:09:09.000
spiritually, psychologically. Um, you know, Christmas morning is, I mean, that, that's some of the things
00:09:14.540
that keep people going as far as their mental health is, that's not some, that's what people
00:09:17.400
live for, right? You live for those types of events. That's what makes life worth living for.
00:09:21.060
That's what makes us different than cattle that you can just, you know, put in a pen,
00:09:24.600
right? We, we are emotional beings. We need social interaction. We live for it. And I, you know,
00:09:29.540
I've heard from doctors who've talked about their patients are willing to risk. Their older patients
00:09:34.740
are willing to risk getting, getting COVID and dying. If that's what it means in order for them to have
00:09:38.600
that social interaction that they want more than anything else, right? So that's what this is
00:09:43.540
about. It's, it's, it's, it's about not just the rights, but what the rights protect. The rights
00:09:48.220
protect these real human important things that we do. We take for granted, but we do because that's
00:09:54.180
what makes life worth living. It's about getting those back because you don't, you don't justify
00:09:58.560
infringing that just by saying, you know, yeah, the ICUs are quite full and yes. Um, you know, I mean,
00:10:04.760
I get it. Some people, some people have died of this respiratory. I understand that.
00:10:08.880
Right. And that's serious. And we got to deal with it, but do we deal with it by, by actually, uh,
00:10:14.740
making things worse by destroying the economy and, and, and, and the opioid overdoses and the
00:10:19.460
canceled surgeries is, you know, everybody knows about that. Are we making things better or no,
00:10:24.320
we're making them worse. Right. And the constitution is designed to protect against that.
00:10:28.160
You know, and it's, there are a lot of people I think that are not buying into this anymore. People
00:10:33.140
who said at the beginning, okay, that's, we'll cancel Easter. We'll even cancel Halloween
00:10:40.280
on the assumption that we will get through this. It'll be over and life will be back to normal by
00:10:47.500
the end of the year, by Christmas. And that's not the case. And I think a lot of people who were
00:10:52.640
not as resistant to the lockdown measures in the beginning have absolutely had it. And I've noticed
00:10:58.800
that's been the case while I've been in Calgary covering the lockdown protests, both the one,
00:11:03.480
uh, this past weekend and the one, um, uh, would have been two weekends ago that, uh, John Carpe
00:11:09.980
from the justice center for constitutional freedom spoke at, I encountered a lot of people there who
00:11:14.780
said, yeah, in the beginning, whatever you wanted me to do, I was willing to do it just for us to get
00:11:20.960
through this. We didn't know how bad it was. We thought China was lying, which they were to the extent
00:11:27.000
that they were lying. I don't think we'll ever truly know. Um, but there are a lot of people who
00:11:31.700
said, sure, I was fully on board, but as this continued to play out, I started leaving the death
00:11:39.080
cult because the comet that promised the destruction never came. And I think like so many death cults,
00:11:45.220
this is sort of frittering out and, you know, it's losing momentum and it's losing, um, the enthusiasm
00:11:52.280
and the buy-in of the public. Um, now I wanted to have you on also to talk about, because, you
00:11:59.440
know, I, I just bring up Easter and it seems like so many of these restrictions are, are targeted at
00:12:04.660
the, uh, the faith communities, not specifically Christians, but also, you know, mosques and
00:12:11.800
synagogues and Sikh temples. Um, and I think the justice center, I think coupled with my colleague
00:12:19.440
Kian Bextie's coverage of what has been happening at some of the Mennonite churches in, uh, Manitoba
00:12:27.580
has been instrumental in the Manitoba government dialing back the restrictions on religious services
00:12:36.280
there. Why don't you tell us a little bit about what the justice center offered to do to Manitoba
00:12:41.400
to get them to rethink their restrictions on religious services?
00:12:46.160
Well, you know, we offered to, we, um, we insinuated that we were going to, um, file for,
00:12:53.900
for an injunction against the drive-in services, right? Um, which, which, which happened, this was
00:12:58.740
an issue back at Easter, back in the spring, right? We, you know, we, we threatened with this
00:13:02.020
in Saskatchewan. They, they reasonably backed off almost immediately. Um, we had a few issues in Alberta,
00:13:09.340
but, but that didn't really go anywhere that they largely backed off. Um, similarly in, in,
00:13:15.100
in Ontario, way back in the beginning with, with Hildebrand's church in, uh, Elmer, I think it was
00:13:19.620
Ontario. Um, so yeah, we were, we were very happy and pleasantly surprised actually to, to, to see
00:13:25.180
Powister's government back off on that. So yeah, I'm very happy to see that. And, and, you know,
00:13:30.260
unfortunately so much of this is Paul is political, right? Um, we saw that in the spring. Um, there was
00:13:36.000
that, uh, you, I think you were there. Um, there was that was the two rallies, uh, or I know it was
00:13:41.580
one big rally at the legislature in May and three guys got, got hauled away. Um, you know, when there
00:13:47.240
was, when there's big, this was when the outdoor gathering was 15% or 15 people. Yeah. And
00:13:52.020
immediately after that, you know, the justice center took two of those tickets. They eventually
00:13:54.860
got dropped. You know, we did a news release result and, but it wasn't just us. There was a lot
00:13:58.260
of coverage of that. There was a lot of, a lot of, uh, uh, backlash and Kenny responded with saying,
00:14:03.700
well, now it's going to be 50 people outdoors and we're not going to have the sheriffs there,
00:14:07.580
you know, doing this sort of thing. Um, which I mean, that was entirely political response. That
00:14:11.460
wasn't like a science medicine response. Right. Um, but that's, but that's, that's just goes to show,
00:14:16.700
right. This is very much political and it really depends on how much political action the people
00:14:20.640
who want to stay free are going, are going to take. Right. Um, because that's just, that's how it's
00:14:25.760
better for better or for worse. It's how our democracy works. It works. And I would say it's for better.
00:14:29.160
Right. You know, that's a great point. Um, I think if, uh, for myself and some other people who were
00:14:37.740
at that legislature that day for that protest, if we didn't have footage of how everybody was standing
00:14:45.240
at least six feet apart, standing in the families or groups in which they, you know, rode together in
00:14:50.860
the same car, I mean, for the sheriffs to come in and then haul away three of them, ticket three of them.
00:14:57.980
I mean, they were probably the three most belligerent, but those are the sort of people
00:15:01.700
that go to protests anyway. I mean, that's nothing new. Uh, being, uh, being prickly is not against
00:15:07.820
the law. Um, if we hadn't sort of shone the disinfecting sunlight on that, Jason Kenney would
00:15:16.880
not have dialed that back because it was pretty clear that they were doing their best to abide by the
00:15:22.900
rules and balance civil liberties with health concerns. And yeah, you are right to point out
00:15:28.620
that it was absolutely a political response. Nothing about the facts of the coronavirus day
00:15:34.260
or that day changed because we caught on camera sheriffs hauling away protesters. It didn't change
00:15:42.860
how the disease was transmitted, but it did change how the public perceived the government's
00:15:49.080
reaction to it. It's the same thing with the BLM protests, right? I mean, the coronavirus isn't
00:15:54.480
racist. It's not like it hates white people, but loves black people. It doesn't work that way.
00:15:58.420
Right. Obviously. So, um, that was the same thing. And you had all these public health experts,
00:16:02.980
so-called, uh, coming out and supporting the BLM protests. Meanwhile, um, they, they, they were
00:16:08.040
viscerally against the pro, uh, for the anti-lockdown protests, you know, and actually had somebody
00:16:13.720
who's very mild mannered and very reasonable. We were talking about this and that for him was the
00:16:19.040
moment where he said, wait a minute, this isn't, this is obviously isn't what's really going on
00:16:23.980
here. Right. And that's what clipped for him. And ever since he's been against it. And I thought
00:16:28.140
that, I mean, obviously I was against it before, but I thought that was really fascinating to hear
00:16:30.880
this from this eminently like reasonable, mild mannered, older gentleman. And he said, yep,
00:16:35.060
the BLM protests thing happened. I saw the double standard. That's when I woke up.
00:16:38.100
And, and, and I, you know, I, I, I mean, I know that's history now, but I would, I would, I would,
00:16:43.340
uh, I would encourage people to still look back on that and all the double standards that have
00:16:46.260
happened since then and consider what, what's really going on here and what this is really all
00:16:49.740
about. Well, yeah. And, and the police response too, I remember the Calgary city police were sort
00:16:55.300
of applauding the BLM protests for how peaceful they were and blah, blah, blah. And we had the NDP,
00:17:01.160
uh, an NDP, MLA, David Shepard spoke at it. So it was perfectly fine for everybody to
00:17:07.760
gather as long as their political ideology aligns with the left, then that's fine. The virus won't
00:17:13.640
get you. But if you're out there protesting in favor of civil liberties, well, you're just a big
00:17:18.180
old grandma killer. And that's just how it's going to be. Um, I wanted to talk to you also that, uh,
00:17:24.080
about how the justice center has filed legal action against the Manitoba lockdowns. Um, is that similar
00:17:29.620
to the legal action that, um, you're attempting here in Alberta? Are you trying to free Christmas for
00:17:36.300
everybody and take it back from the Grinch of Brian Ballister? Well, it's a little different
00:17:41.600
just because the restrictions are a little different. Um, and you know, so we are, we are
00:17:47.860
going to try to file and probably at least half the provinces of the country, Saskatchewan, BC and
00:17:52.700
Ontario are lined up next. Um, but each one's going to be a little different because the restrictions
00:17:57.800
are a little different. And, you know, I'll be perfectly frank with you. I'm not overly familiar
00:18:01.020
with what's going on in Manitoba because I've been buried in, um, the Alberta litigation. We're
00:18:05.920
running that over here and I've spent a hundred hours on it in the last two weeks. And so it's,
00:18:09.840
I'm very zoned in on that. So I wish, I wish my colleagues well, and I'm glad what they're doing.
00:18:14.620
And I think they're going to be in court here this, this Thursday, the 17th. Um, and I don't think
00:18:18.820
they're, I don't think they're going after as much injunctive relief as we are. Um, just cause I
00:18:23.260
think, I think the facts on the ground there are very, are very different. Um, so I don't,
00:18:28.160
I don't think they're going to be able to save Christmas as much as we might be able to,
00:18:33.380
but I don't think they actually need to as much. Cause I don't think, for example, there,
00:18:36.340
um, you can't gather in your own home, celebrate Christmas. My understanding is that doesn't,
00:18:40.060
that restriction isn't there. Right. I think Alberta might be the only one that has that.
00:18:43.040
I'm not sure. Um, that really that's for me, you know, I'm pretty used to civil liberties
00:18:47.740
infringements. Um, I haven't seen one that bad yet. I've been doing this for four years and not,
00:18:52.780
not having, not being able to have somebody in your house for Christmas. Not, I haven't,
00:18:56.940
I have an affiant who, uh, her daughter just, they live somewhere in mid Alberta. Their daughter
00:19:02.680
just moved to Brooks and their daughter's like, you know, 19, 20, like she's young adult. She just
00:19:07.320
moved out to go to Brooks to live alone for a job there. And these rules are such in Alberta that
00:19:11.920
she can't come home to spend Christmas lawfully. If she does, she'll be breaking the law.
00:19:16.900
I mean, that's, you know, I don't want to exaggerate, but I mean, authoritarian,
00:19:22.020
I don't even know if that goes far enough. Right. I might want to start using some other descriptors
00:19:25.740
to describe that. I mean, that, that's, that, that is utterly repugnant to the idea of a Western
00:19:29.840
free democratic nation, utterly repugnant. Well, and it, it happened so fast because,
00:19:35.200
you know, all things considered the Alberta government had taken the least restrictive.
00:19:43.140
However, I'm generally against restrictions in all instances, but compared to the other provinces,
00:19:50.100
we had been sort of the least restrictive. And then the hammer just dropped. It was targeted measures
00:19:58.520
three weeks ago. And then before we even had a chance to see what results, if any, those targeted
00:20:06.500
measures had had on our coronavirus case counts, the hammer was absolutely dropped. It's across the
00:20:14.020
board restrictions, closing entire sectors of the economy, sectors of the economy that had been
00:20:19.620
applauded by the premier two weeks sooner, personal care and, and salons being one of those. And,
00:20:28.900
you know, the, the premier had apologized three weeks ago for saying, you know, we were wrong to
00:20:34.760
have named some sectors of the economy essential and others not. And then yet two weeks later,
00:20:40.000
he goes ahead and does that. It, I think that's what was so shocking for me is it just, it, the,
00:20:46.800
it flipped overnight, but you could feel it in the air. You could sense that it was coming a little
00:20:52.800
bit. It didn't shock me. I was not surprised. I seen it coming. You know, he said in July,
00:20:58.080
we're not going to, you know, we're not going to enforce our way out of this. I thought that's a nice
00:21:02.000
sentiment, but I don't actually believe you because I, I judge you on your actions, not on your words.
00:21:07.400
I've had a lot of talks to people about this course. Um, you know, well, cause, cause Kenny
00:21:11.480
probably talks the best game of any premier in the country about not infringing civil liberties
00:21:15.400
during all this whole thing. I said, well, you know, I judge people by their actions and, uh,
00:21:21.160
actions don't correspond with his words. And, you know, like, I mean, you know, you want to,
00:21:24.760
you want to, you want to pick somebody whose actions and words have lined up. I'll take the
00:21:28.040
governor of South Dakota. I'm not going to take Kenny, you know? So, um, and I, and I, you know,
00:21:33.880
I don't see, I don't see why if, if, if, if he truly does believe in freedom, if he truly does
00:21:38.200
believe that we're not going to enforce our way out of this, obviously it's not working.
00:21:40.920
The lockdowns are not working, right? We're still, we're still getting the spread. We're still getting
00:21:44.520
the, the, the deaths, which of course, a lot of the experts said, well, that's going to happen
00:21:48.840
anyways. You can't stop a virus unless you're God. Lockdown is not going to stop at any event.
00:21:52.200
And it actually might make it worse because you should be trying to get herd immunity.
00:21:55.720
But I mean, you look at, you look at what South Dakota did. I mean, in the long run,
00:21:59.160
are they going to be better off or worse off through all this? They're going to be better off.
00:22:02.200
Cause, cause, cause first of all, they didn't destroy their economy. And second of all,
00:22:04.600
they didn't throw their chaos and their society into chaos with all the distrust of government
00:22:09.800
and the distrust of each other. I mean, you know, now in Alberta, you have huge social discord
00:22:14.600
between anti-maskers and pro-maskers, right? I'm constantly seeing in the media,
00:22:18.440
all these terrible circumstances of both sides attacking each other. This is terrible. And it was
00:22:21.960
all, it was all self-imposed by the government. It didn't have to happen.
00:22:24.440
Yeah. There's a, there's a bit of a snitch culture that's been created here in Alberta. And I'm
00:22:28.440
ashamed to say that it even exists. Now it's funny that you said that we can't stop the deaths,
00:22:33.960
but incidentally, based on a justice center analysis that shows lockdowns are more deadly
00:22:42.840
than COVID-19. In 2020, our eight month total for deaths, all deaths in Canada, 186,690 deaths
00:22:57.400
across eight months. And yet in 2019, so before the times of this deadly disease that was going to
00:23:03.320
kill us all. And there are actually more deaths over across the eight month total is 190,300 showing
00:23:12.600
that these lockdowns, you know, like this disease that was going to kill us all it, this is actually
00:23:21.560
probably the least deadly eight months that we've had in a long time. And yet the economic strife is
00:23:28.360
far worse. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's weird when you look at the data, it's, you know, in a morbid
00:23:34.600
sense, it's, it's fascinating because what you, what you have is because, because we shut down the
00:23:39.320
economy. See, this is really key. So we shut down the economy. So we actually lost a whole bunch of
00:23:44.440
natural deaths that happen every year. Right. We went down and I'm going to, I'm going to think that we went
00:23:48.840
down and car accidents and other natural deaths that, that, that are a natural result of heightened
00:23:54.280
economic activity comes with a, you know, a little bit of low level risk. Right. I mean, that's, and
00:23:59.240
this, this is the problem, right. We've forgotten, we knew this a couple hundred years ago. We've
00:24:03.160
forgotten that when you live in a free society that is prosperous and is active, you will get accidents.
00:24:08.280
You will get some deaths besides just illnesses. You will, you will get those. Right. And we,
00:24:13.000
we've actually gotten less of those this year because the government shut everything down.
00:24:17.000
Um, so, but, and then, and then we also see though, that, uh, it's questionable that we're
00:24:22.760
in a pandemic at all because we have no excess deaths. Right. If it's 27,000 people in Alberta
00:24:29.000
die normally every year, well, we're not going to exceed that this year. In fact, we're going to be
00:24:32.360
lower than that. So it really calls into question whether or not what we have is just a bad flu year
00:24:37.320
or a true pandemic. Right. Cause in a bad flu year, you're not going to really change that average
00:24:41.880
each year. You're just maybe, you know, a couple hundred extra because you have a couple hundred,
00:24:46.040
a couple hundred extra flu deaths. Right. In a pandemic, you're going to have, you know,
00:24:50.760
statistically significant increases. It might be 33,000. You know, you had an extra 6,000 deaths.
00:24:55.080
That would be an actual, now we're into the actual mathematic definition of pandemic.
00:24:58.840
We don't actually have that. Right. That doesn't mean we don't have tragedy. That doesn't mean it
00:25:02.680
isn't sad that people are dying and whether it's pneumonia, flu or COVID. Right. That's, that's,
00:25:07.640
nobody, nobody's saying that isn't tragic. The point is that's an inevitable tragedy of living on planet
00:25:13.480
earth. Yeah. And so do we respond to that in this irrational, asinine way, um, by, by destroying,
00:25:21.240
uh, you know, the whole purpose of life and the things that make life worth living for the rest of
00:25:25.640
society. Right. And that's, and, and, and again, that goes back to the constitutional protections
00:25:30.120
are there to prevent that sort of thing from happening. Right. Yeah. I mean, the act of living
00:25:35.640
and being on planet earth is that nobody makes it out alive. Um, and I, my concern is that from these
00:25:43.720
canceled surgeries that we've seen, and, uh, I noticed from the analysis done by the justice center
00:25:49.400
that 850 women had their breast cancer surgery delayed by, or who, and that's essential. They had it
00:26:02.200
delayed by at least two months. And so for when I'm looking at this, I'm thinking by 2021, we are going
00:26:11.080
to see a spike in deaths, illnesses, early, early deaths of treatable illnesses where we could have
00:26:20.440
prolonged not only their life, but their quality of life for much longer. We're going to see that play
00:26:26.360
out in 2021 from all these delayed surgeries where we emptied out our hospital wards for this,
00:26:32.440
wave of coronavirus cases that never actually came. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you know what,
00:26:37.560
and I'll be honest with you, that's, that's really what, what, what gives me the fire in my belly.
00:26:41.800
It's not, it's, it's not, you know, I mean, the rights matter to me. Um, but it's really,
00:26:46.120
it's about what the rights protect. Right. And it, it's, uh, it makes me, it makes me angry, um,
00:26:53.160
that, that these women are going through this and that all the other people that are suffering from
00:26:56.680
not getting their surgeries and, and, and, and even death, right. Jerry, Jerry Dunham died because
00:27:00.360
he didn't get his pacemaker surgery. You know what? He left behind two, two young girls
00:27:04.760
and his, and his wife. Yeah. Ah, you know, that's, that's, I mean, at the raw human level,
00:27:11.000
that's why I want to live in a free society. That's why I fight to live in a free society,
00:27:14.520
because it isn't about me being some legit raging libertarian. It's about people having a
00:27:18.920
better quality of life. Right. It's about actually alleviating human suffering. It's about actually
00:27:25.240
increasing human flourishing to get really philosophical about it. That's what it comes
00:27:28.680
down to. And that's, that's what this is really about. This isn't just about rights. You know,
00:27:32.520
my rights don't wear a mask. No, it's, it's about my right to live, uh, you know, with a decent minimum
00:27:38.920
quality level of life. And that's, and that's why I live in this free society and I don't move to Iran,
00:27:43.000
China or North Korea or whatnot. Right. Or Venezuela. Cause, cause I actually want to live a decent life.
00:27:47.720
And I know I can do that here. And this is one of the few places where I can. And I want to keep
00:27:50.840
it that way. That's what this is really all about. Now, while we're talking about, uh,
00:27:56.680
canceled surgeries and delayed surgeries, the justice center is bringing attention. Um,
00:28:01.320
I'll read directly from the justice center press release, calling attention to a dire situation that
00:28:06.200
has resulted in the cancellation of a scheduled essential surgery at the university of Alberta
00:28:11.960
hospital in Edmonton for a Tumblr Ridge, BC senior. Debbie head Gullhoff is a 60 year old mother and
00:28:19.480
grandmother. She requires skull surgery. I can't even believe they delayed this that had been
00:28:25.800
scheduled for November 30th at the university of Alberta, but it has now been canceled due to Alberta's
00:28:32.200
latest lockdown measures. She suffered a stroke. She was airlifted to the U of a emergency room on
00:28:38.520
September 4th. The surgery involved removing part of her skull and storing it on ice to allow enough
00:28:44.360
time for the swelling in her brain to go down. But she can't get the surgery she needs to reattach her
00:28:51.720
skull because they've canceled all the non-essential surgeries. I would think that putting your head back
00:28:58.840
together is an essential surgery, especially for this woman who has so much life left to live and so
00:29:06.840
many people who need her to live. She's got kids and grandchildren and yet she's really the human face of
00:29:13.720
this pandemic, isn't she? Yeah. Yeah. Well, she's the, she's the human face of, of the response to the
00:29:20.280
so-called pandemic that is, that is far, far, far worse. And we will feel it for years to come. Um, and, and it's tragic.
00:29:27.800
And I, you know, there's, there's many, many other stories that I've heard. Um, but, but hers is
00:29:32.360
probably one of the worst. And, you know, and again, that goes back to, you know, I mean, that's
00:29:36.360
what section seven of the charter is for, right? Life, uh, and security of the person, right? Supposed
00:29:41.320
to protect against that sort of stuff. And that's that, this is an infringement of this. And this,
00:29:44.840
and this is a direct response where you get these, you get these high level orders that are not
00:29:48.360
thought out. Um, they're just, they're just, they're just ad hoc imposed. They're arbitrary. And then
00:29:53.320
everybody's scared, right? This is a huge problem. Of course, everybody's scared. So they say, well,
00:29:56.920
I got to follow the orders. I can't get in trouble. I don't want to lose my job. I get that a lot.
00:30:00.280
Right. And so, and then, and then, you know, and they're caught in the middle and this moral dilemma
00:30:03.400
of, well, if I buck AHS, I might get, I might lose my job. Meanwhile, I know that this woman needs this,
00:30:07.960
this is awful, but what do I do? Right. Well, I better just, you know, I better just,
00:30:12.280
I better just tow the party line and, you know, they've said cancel. So I'm going to cancel.
00:30:16.280
Right. And this, yeah, this is the face of the real human suffering as, as, as a result of that.
00:30:21.540
And her surgery is a one hour surgery. It's so small and it would make such a difference in her
00:30:29.380
quality of life. I mean, just the amount of, as you point out, human suffering, she's lost 40 pounds.
00:30:37.620
She is scared to do anything because she might bump, you know, have an injury that could cause now
00:30:45.300
a catastrophic brain injury to her, maybe even resulting in death. Um, and it's just a one hour
00:30:52.180
surgery to give her back her life, but she can't get it because we're still waiting for that second
00:30:58.740
and third wave of coronavirus patients that really truly are never coming.
00:31:05.860
Yeah. Uh, James, I could talk to you all day, but you're a busy lawyer and I'm a busy journalist.
00:31:11.220
I want to give, uh, you an opportunity to let people know where they can find some of the, uh,
00:31:16.500
cases that the justice center is working on, how they can reach out to the justice center if they
00:31:21.060
feel that the justice center could help them in some way, or I think more importantly for the vast
00:31:26.100
majority of people, how they can support the work that the justice center is doing.
00:31:31.220
Yeah. So I know, you know, it's kind of a, kind of a well-kept secret. The justice center is a
00:31:34.420
non-profit charity, right? So all of our revenue, if you're going to call it that comes from donations,
00:31:40.100
right? Very similar to our church or any other, any other charity, right? We issue tax receipts
00:31:43.380
for any donation over $50. Uh, that's how I get paid. I get paid a salary. Every other lawyer gets
00:31:47.620
paid a salary, uh, out of that. Right? So, you know, more donations means more staff, more cases
00:31:53.460
we take, right? Which is great. We're in the midst of hiring staff right now. We're going out on the
00:31:57.860
wind because we need, we need staff to run these cases. I'm dying in here with just, we're just,
00:32:02.660
you know, I got this tiny little team and we're all putting in a hundred hours a week and it's crazy.
00:32:06.020
So, you know, yes, please, please do support us. It goes directly to, to, to getting the staff to
00:32:10.820
run the cases. Um, you know, and you can, yeah, you can go right on our website and do that. And
00:32:15.220
you can, you can contact us on our website too. If you, if you, if you, we call it a case submission,
00:32:19.780
right? If you have a situation you want to help with, you can contact us. We get about 200 a week
00:32:23.860
right now. So bear with us. Our response is not immediate, um, because we've been inundated as you can
00:32:29.620
imagine. That's probably no surprise to anybody. Um, but we, we will try to get back to you. And, uh,
00:32:34.180
especially if it's a ticket case, you know, a contact us, um, you know, uh, you know, if you're,
00:32:40.420
if you're concerned about it, just, just plead not guilty and, and, and then mail it in because
00:32:43.940
you're not, you're not bound to that. If you want to change your mind, if we'd not guilty in the
00:32:46.580
future, you can't, most people don't know this. Right. So, you know, I've been telling people,
00:32:49.940
plead not guilty unless you're determined to pay it. Uh, and then, you know, uh, some, somebody,
00:32:54.500
whether it's you guys or us, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll get back to them. Right. So I encourage you
00:32:58.740
to contact us definitely about the tickets. Well, James, I want to thank you so much for
00:33:03.860
the work that you do to keep this country free. It's a big job and I'm glad to have an ally in
00:33:09.460
the fight for freedom because I think they need the justice center in the work that you do now more
00:33:15.380
than ever. And, you know, I think that's why it's so important to support the justice center in the
00:33:20.660
good times because you need an army there, um, during the bad times. And, um, again, thank you so much
00:33:27.620
for your time and we'll have you back on the show again very soon. All right. Well, thanks for having
00:33:31.940
me. It was a pleasure this time. The government is not supposed to make a law that disregards your
00:33:44.340
charter rights. In fact, the charter is there to restrain the government from doing such a thing.
00:33:51.860
Your rights don't come from the government. Your rights are supposed to be
00:33:57.460
protected by the government, but also protected from the government. And that's why I'm so happy
00:34:06.180
to have the justice center for constitutional freedoms fighting alongside of us here at rebel news
00:34:13.620
against these governments that are using the Corona virus pandemic to control every single aspect of
00:34:22.580
your life. You know, I bet you didn't think a year ago that an unelected health bureaucrat whose name
00:34:28.820
you'd never heard before would now be dictating just how many people can come over for Christmas dinner.
00:34:37.300
Well, everybody, that's the show for tonight. Thank you so much as always for tuning in. I'll see everybody
00:34:42.420
back here in the same time in the same place. And remember, don't let the government tell you that