In today's podcast, I talk about Brian Pallister, who tried being an angry guy a few weeks ago, and his poll numbers plummeted to the lowest in Canada. So now he's trying to make Justin Trudeau cry a little bit on camera, dramatic acting. I'm not sure if it's working.
00:21:37.020But when it comes to public policy, it's our politicians that need to be making the decisions.
00:21:42.420Those politicians need to, of course, listen to the experts on health as it pertains to the health consequences.
00:21:49.880But they also need to listen to other voices, voices regarding civil liberties, voices regarding the economy.
00:21:57.020And it's not up to medical health officials to say that these types of restrictions or these types of laws should be designed.
00:22:04.300They're to provide information on the seriousness of the current health situation, on what some of the effects would be.
00:22:11.020But ultimately, it's up to the legislators in each province to craft good public policy that balances the health concerns along with the economic concerns, along with the mental health concerns of Canadians, and along with civil liberties.
00:22:28.260You know, I'm glad you brought that up, that politicians need to be the ones making these decisions.
00:22:33.260And they should be balancing all considerations.
00:22:36.900And that's a great segue into something I wanted to ask you about, because you are in the centre of the universe of Ontario, and I'm out here in God's country, Alberta.
00:22:47.020And, you know, two conservative premiers are handling this pandemic very differently.
00:22:54.560And in Alberta, Jason Kenney has sort of taken the advice of the unelected health bureaucrats and balanced it with the economy and mental health and business concerns.
00:23:05.200That's not happening in Ontario, and so you're seeing businesses in Ontario being, you know, fined for doing things that are perfectly legal in other jurisdictions with the same COVID infection rates.
00:23:21.800So for you, you're going to be working in this patchwork quilt of regulations.
00:23:30.360Well, I think my approach is going to be the same everywhere we go, looking at the constitutionality of the law, looking at how it was applied and looking at the facts of the case.
00:23:39.500I mean, what we're seeing, Sheila, is we're seeing essentially fear being used as a blunt object across the country.
00:23:44.800I know that to compare just a little bit of Ontario and Alberta, my last look about a week ago at the statistics is that in Ottawa, for example,
00:23:54.300about three tenths of one tenth of one percent of the population of Ottawa were out and about with COVID.
00:24:03.260Now, I appreciate in Toronto, for example, the number is closer to about one percent.
00:24:07.440In Calgary, I believe it's one quarter of one percent.
00:24:10.080So we do have different situations across the country, but we're still dealing with relatively microscopic numbers,
00:24:18.340which can often be dealt with by less intrusive measures than we're seeing right now.
00:24:23.660When I talk about fear, obviously, we were well aware that the mainstream media have been using fear to get people all worked up about the possibility of getting COVID and what that means.
00:24:34.540But we're actually seeing fear as being a bigger problem with regards to the premiers.
00:24:38.380Premiers are fearful as to how they're going to look if they don't one up each other with the measures that are being taken.
00:24:45.180We saw that in the United States, this preposterous idea that Donald Trump was responsible for all of the 200,000 or 300,000 deaths.
00:24:54.240And then here in Canada, we're seeing some premiers who are acting either in Quebec or Ontario and other provinces, Manitoba,
00:25:01.860with this fear in their eye that if they don't overreach and if they don't use overkill in the manner in which they pursue this,
00:25:11.920that they feel that they're going to be hung up to dry in the media or somehow they're going to be falsely held responsible for what is turning out to be not as serious of a public health crisis as we originally thought.
00:25:25.260You know, I'm so glad that you brought up Manitoba because, again, Brian Pallister claims to be a conservative premier,
00:25:34.180someone who, you know, you would think would be on the spectrum of caring about civil liberties.
00:25:40.160And yet they issued more than $180,000 in tickets in one week to people accused of breaking their coronavirus regulations.
00:25:54.560There were 100 tickets issued and nearly half were for not following various public health orders, according to the CBC, and take that for what you will.
00:26:05.040But, I mean, they're reporting the raw numbers here.
00:26:07.360In total, 20% of the tickets were related to gatherings of larger than five people.
00:26:13.320So this could be a family get-together.
00:26:16.660And yet that's basically been outlawed in Brian Pallister's Manitoba.
00:26:23.540Do we, I guess the idea is to take on as many cases as we can and just overwhelm them with our ability to fight back and maybe they'll just stop charging people and ticketing them?
00:26:36.240Well, I think, again, Sheila, it comes back to the issue of fear, is that lots of people, citizens, are so fearful that when they either hear of these tickets being issued or even receiving them themselves,
00:26:50.520they kind of just say, they capitulate and say, well, I guess, you know, it's something that's necessary because we have such an important health situation.
00:26:58.420But I think we just need to look at these tickets one at a time, whether they come to us through Fight the Fines or anyone who's representing themselves or who has other lawyers.
00:27:07.000They need to be looked at and see if there's any real connection between, first of all, health concerns and the laws that are in place.
00:27:17.080And if not, there can be an attack on that in terms of the constitutionality of it.
00:27:20.800And then we need to look to see if people are actually breaking the law.
00:27:26.140I have one case in here in Ottawa where a bylaw officer assaulted my client as he was leaving a park following an instruction to to leave a park very early in the pandemic.
00:27:37.820And he was assaulted by the bylaw officer.
00:27:41.160The bylaw officer has has since lost his job, but the charges remain and we're fighting that.
00:27:46.860So each one of these charges, if they're fought and if they're challenged and if people don't just simply capitulate, I think we'll see a bit of a different shift in focus from both the government and the prosecution branch of the government in as to to what extent this needs to be pursued.
00:28:07.320In some instances, I think a lot of these gatherings of larger than five people, particularly in Manitoba, end up being church services.
00:28:15.980Christian church services, Christian church services, and I think there's some legal question around the ability of police and bylaw enforcement officers to disrupt a church service that's taking place.
00:28:29.500And we've seen some video footage of that, particularly with a Mennonite church near Steinbeck.
00:28:39.860Well, at this point, Sheila, I'm not able to say that I've seen a considerable amount of evidence that the churches are being targeted or that freedom of religion is being targeted, but they do make an easy target, so to speak, for bylaw enforcement officers.
00:28:54.780Is that where these laws, and we're seeing this across the country, have basically resulted in normal society as we're used to, you know, walking to the store, being able to leave your house, being able to see the faces of the people in your community.
00:29:12.220And for many people, worship is a very important part of normal life.
00:29:16.320And so where people want to keep experiencing normal life, that's where we're seeing the friction between some of these overreaching government policies.
00:29:25.540Well, David, I'm so glad that you are working on these Fight the Fines cases with us.
00:29:30.560I know that you and I have been working on one in particular that I hope everybody at home stays tuned, because that'll be coming out shortly.
00:29:37.940If anybody would like to support the work that David is doing to help people fight these fines, they can go to fightthefines.com and donate today and see some of our prior cases and, of course, some of our successes that are already starting to trickle in.
00:30:17.380I had so many projects I was working on on the side, so I feel like I didn't do enough videos myself, but we had some great content out there.