In this episode, my guest is Michelle Sterling from Friends of Science. She talks about the push to depopulate the world to save us from some sort of climate catastrophe, the new medical assistance in dying legislation, and her recent presentation at a Freedom Talk event in Lloydminster.
00:00:00.000Hello Rebels, you're listening to a free audio-only recording of my weekly Wednesday night show,
00:00:05.040The Gun Show. Tonight my guest is Michelle Sterling from Friends of Science and we are
00:00:09.740talking about a whole host of things including the push to depopulate the world to save us from
00:00:21.260some sort of climate catastrophe. Now if you like listening to the show then I promise you're going
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00:01:22.760Cancel culture climate change and medical assistance in dying. How do all these things
00:01:38.120tie in together? Stay tuned and find out. I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed and you're watching The Gunn Show.
00:01:52.760In 2018 a lawyer set himself on fire in a New York park to protest climate change. Now according
00:02:09.340to the BBC article at the time a suicide note was found nearby and the deceased one David Buckle
00:02:16.080wrote that he had immolated himself using fossil fuel to symbolize what he said was the damage that
00:02:23.900human beings were doing to the earth. Buckle said that most people now breathed bad air and died
00:02:32.760prematurely. Now to quote his suicide note directly he wrote pollution ravages our planet oozing
00:02:41.000in habitability via air soil water and weather. My early death by fossil fuel reflects what we are
00:02:48.360doing to ourselves. This is not new as many have chosen to live a life based on the view that no other
00:02:54.240action can most meaningfully address the harm they see. Buckle's death in 2018 was indeed tragic.
00:03:03.800A result I would suggest of the hopelessness and helplessness coupled with the sense of urgency
00:03:11.400peddled by the climate change movement. You see I think it's creating dangerous anxiety
00:03:17.760invulnerable sensitive people and now with medical assistance in death easier than ever to get especially
00:03:26.600for young depressed people. I think it's going to become an easy way out for people who are suffering
00:03:34.120this climate anxiety that society has infected them with and who are repeatedly told that humans are
00:03:41.280an invasive species on the planet. Joining me tonight to discuss this very important issue from a very
00:03:47.800personal perspective is my friend Michelle Sterling from Friends of Science but she's also joining me
00:03:54.300to talk about a few other things as well including her very recent presentation at Danny Hozak's
00:04:02.060Freedom Talk event in Lloydminster in an interview that we recorded yesterday morning and now this is
00:04:10.360where future Sheila, me right now, corrects past Sheila's mistakes. In talking with Michelle yesterday
00:04:17.640morning I said it was a virtual event, Danny Hozak's event, but it actually wasn't quite. Danny was
00:04:24.020able to find a venue in Lloydminster that would host his event, so keep that in mind when you're
00:04:29.780listening to me or watching me screw up that one detail in about 20 seconds from now. Take a listen.
00:04:37.700Joining me now is my friend Michelle Sterling from Friends of Science and first of all there's a ton of
00:04:58.720things that we need to talk about. There's so many things both on you know just climate change issues, political
00:05:04.620issues, taxation issues, cancel culture, which more and more Friends of Science is becoming a victim of
00:05:11.280and also the new medical assistance in dying legislation. Michelle has a very personal anecdote
00:05:17.820that she would like to share. But first Michelle, I guess it would be, was it last week in the weekend
00:05:23.740before our friend Danny Hozak hosted another Freedom Talk event, this one was virtual, but you had a talk
00:05:31.020there about the carbon tax and how paying taxes to the government isn't going to change the weather.
00:05:39.180Fancy that as an idea. Well in the virtual talk I talked about the the mandate of the Minister of
00:05:47.600Climate Change and Environment. He has two mandate letters, Jonathan Wilkinson, and in in both of them
00:05:53.700the Prime Minister acknowledged that we should use the best available science and evidence and that we
00:06:00.900remain committed to evidence-based decision making that takes into consideration the impacts of policies
00:06:07.060on all Canadians. So those are two really key points and it also notes in the letter from 2019 that
00:06:18.020that that the Minister must be, you know, have humility and continue to acknowledge mistakes when we make them.
00:06:26.100Canadians do not expect us to be perfect. They expect us to be diligent, honest, open and sincere in our efforts to serve
00:06:33.780the public interest. And in the rest of my talk I go on to show that the best available science shows that we reached
00:06:42.020peak carbon in 2019. And that doesn't mean there won't be any more emissions, but it does mean that we're
00:06:49.380not on any kind of catastrophic trend. And the problem is that there's this set of scenarios that's been used
00:06:59.460over and over again in the climate world called representative concentration pathways, RCP. And so there's like the
00:07:08.980RCP 8.5, there's 6.0, 4.5, and 2.6. And this is the one that people keep saying is the business as usual one,
00:07:20.820which is not true. And Roger Pielke Jr. and Justin Ritchie out of BC have done an analysis of thousands of
00:07:29.620papers on Google Scholar showing that this catastrophic scenario is the one most referred to. But in fact the
00:07:37.860reality is that our emissions is more down here already. This is the track that we're on. And the very problematic part of this,
00:07:48.500and this is also associated with my conversation later about MAID, is these other scenarios, they're not comparable to this,
00:07:57.460because these other scenarios have 3 billion fewer people in the equation, which might lead some people to think that we should
00:08:07.380depopulate the earth to save the planet. I want you to think very, very carefully about that, everyone, because this is what the
00:08:17.380finance community is looking at. This is what banks are looking at. This is what pension funds are looking at. And they want to get down here to net zero. And
00:08:27.380zero. And that means for some of those people, they think more people should be gone from this planet.
00:08:37.380And really, when these people say more people should be gone from this planet, they don't mean them, their friends, their yachting
00:08:45.380buddies, they mean people like you and me.
00:08:47.380Well, you know, people have become dispensable now that sort of the great reset viewpoint that artificial intelligence will take over that people will be redundant, that all these jobs will disappear because robots can do them.
00:09:03.380And that, you know, and that, you know, and that, you know, many of the people who we all value, the people we love, who may be
00:09:11.380difficult people, they may be in difficult circumstances, they may be elderly, they may have dementia, they might be vulnerable people, they might be quite sick.
00:09:23.380So, you know, these kind of mechanical computations about who should be on the planet would say, theoretically, they should not be on the planet, they're just useless consumers of material goods that the elite would prefer for themselves.
00:09:43.380So there are very, very deep philosophical and religious and spiritual issues associated now with climate change, and with the great reset.
00:09:55.380You know, I'm glad that you use the word religious, because there's a certain religious fervor that comes along with the proponents of limiting the amount of people who are allowed to be born and who are allowed to live on the face of the earth.
00:10:12.380To deal with climate change, because it does have its own very distinct set of values that are incompatible with mine, that's for sure.
00:10:21.380And, you know, we are treated as human beings, by, you know, that that side of the argument, as though we are an invasive species doing something terrible to the earth, by producing carbon dioxide, which takes me to Bill C12,
00:10:41.380which you talked about a little bit in your talk at Freedom Talk, because that's the pursuit of net zero emissions.
00:10:50.380And it's going to be legislated now instead of just a goal.
00:10:55.380And we're not seeing a lot of pushback from the conservative side of the aisle on this.
00:11:00.380In fact, a lot of the language we see, Erin O'Toole, using this net zero language also.
00:11:07.380Yes, well, Bill C12 is something that's been promoted by the major environmental law groups in Canada and environmental groups.
00:11:18.380The main groups behind it are CANRAC, which is a group, a network of over 100 ENGOs in Canada and unions.
00:11:29.380Equitair, Pembina Institute, Ecojustice and West Coast Environmental Law.
00:11:36.380In addition to the people behind it, there's a letter from 28 law professors from various universities.
00:11:43.380Five of those professors are from the U of C, who have been promoting this climate accountability law.
00:11:50.380And so that's what Bill C12 is really all about is trying to force the government to make a law that they have to meet these targets.
00:11:59.380Now, the rationale for this is that over the past 30 years, Canada has not met any of its proposed Kyoto or Paris Agreement targets.
00:12:09.380And there's quite a good reason for that. First of all, there is no technology that would allow us to go to net zero.
00:12:18.380But in the meantime, we've increased our population 37 percent in that time.
00:12:25.380But you'll find that we're pretty much flat lined in terms of growth of greenhouse gas emissions.
00:12:32.380So that's actually a good thing. Like people should be rejoicing and saying, wow, look at that 37 percent more people who need transportation, a house, food, heating in winter, lighting so that they can read and do their zoom calls.
00:12:47.380And yet we hardly grew any emissions whatsoever. We must be way more efficient in Canada. Fantastic.
00:12:54.380But no, they want to impose this law. And this will, first of all, will allow the government to then justify the horribly intrusive and detrimental laws and implications that would come from this law.
00:13:13.380Because they'd say, oh, well, if we don't make you people poor, then we're going to be in court with these law ENGOs.
00:13:21.380And it also is kind of like expanded ambulance chasing for these ENGOs.
00:13:28.380You know, it gives them complete opportunity to take the government or perhaps any individual or company to court any day of the week saying, well, no, no, no, you know, you didn't meet your climate accountability requirements.
00:13:41.380Therefore, we're going to sue you. So the ultimate in ENGO ambulance chasing.
00:13:48.380But I discussed some of the practical outcomes of this at Freedom Talk.
00:13:55.380And these come from Robert Lyman, who was a public servant for 27 years and a diplomat for 10 years.
00:14:02.380And some of the things that Robert indicated would happen, the Canadian dollar might go to 60 cents.
00:14:09.380The cost of a house would have $100,000 added to it.
00:14:15.380The price of diesel, gasoline, propane would double or triple.
00:14:21.380Electricity prices would double or triple.
00:14:24.380There would be more blackouts and brownouts.
00:14:27.380Life would become pretty much intolerable for ordinary people.
00:14:35.380And there would be mass migration from Alberta because most of the oil and gas production in Canada would have to be shut down.
00:14:44.380As would all of the big manufacturing industries like steel, cement, any of these, some of the mining industries.
00:14:54.380So it's ironic that on the one hand, we have Minister Reagan saying, oh, look, we're going to be a world leader in mining, which is a very intensive emissions operation.
00:15:07.380And on the other hand, trying to implement this law that would basically shut down all mining.
00:15:12.380So, you know, that's kind of a long diatribe on my part, but it's a very serious bill with serious implications.
00:15:21.380And the Paris Agreement is entirely voluntary.
00:16:08.380But now how do you oppose them when they're written into law, when you stood up and whipped your caucus into supporting them when they were just voluntary targets?
00:16:23.380And ultimately, at the end of the day, as you rightly point out, it is Alberta, as it always tends to be, that ends up on the receiving end of these bad ideas.
00:16:32.380Well, we'll have the biggest hit from them.
00:16:35.380But honestly, you know, Robert Lyman has another report about Climate and Rural Canada that was issued a couple of years ago.
00:16:42.380And he talks about the Aluminier factory in Quebec and two other big operations there.
00:16:52.380There's an iron ore operation, which I don't remember the name.
00:16:55.380Anyway, I can send you that information.
00:17:00.380And these are our operations and industries that serve a very large community of rural workers who won't have jobs and there won't be other options for them.
00:17:15.380So it's going to hit Alberta worst, partly because we're landlocked, partly because oil and gas is a big sector, partly because agriculture is a big sector.
00:17:26.380And, but it's going to hit everything in Canada.
00:17:32.380You know, that's another thing that I showed in my presentation, that if, this is from Bjorn Lomberg, if all of the countries met all of their targets, you know, the resulting reduction in warming would be 17 one hundredths of a degree Celsius.
00:17:50.380And it would cost one to two trillion dollars a year.
00:17:54.380So, obviously, this is just a money laundering scheme for green cronies and has really nothing to do with the environment and everything to do with turning you into a carbon surf.
00:18:07.380You know, that's something I really feel like I should put on a t-shirt.
00:18:24.380It's slightly outdated, but still the principles are true, called carbon kleptomania.
00:18:29.380Because as we've seen already, once you implement a carbon tax, government just can't keep its hands off it.
00:18:37.380And there's ever more reasons why they can come up with, oh, well, we know, we know we said it would never go above fifty dollars, but now it's going to go up to one hundred and seventy.
00:18:47.380And there's nothing you can do about it because we're the government.
00:18:52.380Although, you know, if we go back to the minister's mandate, it says that he should use the best available science and evidence.
00:18:59.380And we found, I just showed you that actually they've been on the wrong track using this RCP 8.5 as business as usual.
00:19:07.380He also says in the mandate letter that we should make, you know, be willing to admit our mistakes and that we have to defend the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and consider the impact on all Canadians.
00:19:44.380You mentioned Robert Lyman once already, but as you rightly point out, while the Western world pursues net zero economies, the developing world is developing.
00:20:00.380And that is a very carbon intensive thing.
00:20:05.380And Robert Lyman's new report, The Real World of Greenhouse Gas Emissions, rightly points out that 60% of the world population is from a developing nation where they are completely ignoring Paris targets.
00:20:21.380And I'm happy they are because I think everybody should live in some form of health and prosperity.
00:20:28.380Well, his latest report is called When Giants Arise.
00:20:32.380And then you read the subtitle, which is correct, that, you know, the giants are really South Asia, that being China, all of the smaller nations associated with the Asian region, and India.
00:20:45.380And I believe in Robert Lyman's report, promises versus performance, up to 2019, China's emissions had grown 28%, and India's had grown 69%.
00:21:02.380So, you know, there's massive growth in these areas where they have, you know, a couple of billion people, most of whom don't have central heating, central lighting, central sanitation facilities, pumped water.
00:21:18.380So, these nations are not going to stand by and play climate change bingo, you know, with the West, they're going to forge ahead and create their own new societies.
00:21:31.380While we, you know, dicker with each other about whether or not we're going to impose a carbon tax here or a climate accountability law there.
00:21:40.380So, we'll be crushed and broke, and they will be surging ahead, because they are giants, and we are nothing.
00:21:50.380So, this actually makes the whole climate conversation totally absurd.
00:21:55.380Just the report, you see how absurd it all is.
00:22:00.380It's been over half of the world's population is saying, no, no thanks to these ideas.
00:22:06.380How do we just say, okay, well, we're just going to shut down our economies and hope that that's enough to offset the immense growth that's happening in the developing world?
00:22:39.380And again, this is kind of a money laundering scheme, because what the actual idea is that, okay, we'll give you money, but you buy our wind turbines.
00:22:47.380You know, actually, the late Professor Dr. Istan Marco wrote a great post one time, which is on our blog in French and English, where he compared it to a climate trade fair.
00:23:04.380So, you know, you go to the cop, the conference of the parties, the climate conference, and Germany, for instance, would say, boy, India, you should really get into renewables.
00:23:16.380And India says, well, we don't have any money.
00:23:18.380And they go, well, we'll give you $2 billion, but you have to buy our wind farm.
00:23:27.380It's this horse trading, money laundering thing that does nothing for the climate.
00:23:32.380And, you know, it's just scaring people to death here in terms of children and many of the climate activists, you know, they're terrified that the world will end when it's really this commercial transaction happening in the background.
00:23:47.380And I think we've seen the end sustainability of green energy when it runs up against Mother Nature unfolding in Texas.
00:23:58.380When Texas got swamped with a snowstorm, they lost power, they lost heating.
00:24:05.380Grocery stores were losing enormous amounts of food, even if you could get to food, because the electricity was down and their freezers were failing.
00:24:16.380And from what I understand, a lot of that had to do with not Texas policies, because they're obviously pro-energy.
00:24:24.380But during the Obama years, green energy companies were incentivized to build onto the grid.
00:24:31.380And it made the grid unreliable, as we've seen in Texas.
00:24:34.380Now, on a day-to-day basis, you don't necessarily, when things are good, it's good.
00:24:41.380But that's not when you really need electricity.
00:24:44.380You need it when things are bad and it failed there.
00:24:48.380And, well, first of all, Texas had the most subsidies ever for wind.
00:24:54.380And those subsidies came from all taxpayers in the US.
00:25:01.380And Texas also shut down three coal plants.
00:25:05.380And, you know, you have to plan for the worst scenario and you have to have reserve power that's sufficient to stand those tests.
00:25:15.380And a lot of things that had happened, they started electrifying, you know, decarbonizing homes and decarbonizing some of the pumps for some of the natural gas and such like by using electricity.
00:25:27.380So, you know, when you have a power drop and a cold temperature moves in, you know, cold front moves in, of course, everyone's going to turn up their power and draw more electricity, which puts more strain on the grid.
00:25:40.380And if you don't have those backup reserves of reliable power, dispatchable power, you know, power that you can turn up and say, okay, we need more coal power, we need more nuclear, we need more natural gas.
00:25:52.380If you don't have that reserve available, then things fall apart.
00:25:59.380And wind had been like actually a very great performer for Texas for a long time.
00:26:04.380But there is a graph showing that there was a drop off of 40% wind, which was taken up by the natural gas supply right after that.
00:26:13.380But that kind of immediate loss is very hard on grid stability.
00:26:19.380And there are some reports saying that whatever the grid managers did at the time saved them from going to total blackout.
00:26:28.380Like I think it's called a black start operation, very hard to get the grid back up again, if you ever encounter that.
00:26:35.380So, you know, this is catastrophic for Western society to have that level of unreliability.
00:26:47.380I think that's the scariest part is that's how, you know, like you would think, you know, something hits Texas, they're going to be fine.
00:26:55.380But when you insert this unreliability into a completely reliable grid, I mean, the ramifications are devastating.
00:27:05.380Yeah, well, you can look at Venezuela, a very similar thing happened there.
00:27:09.380Yeah, they didn't keep their conventional power up to snuff.
00:27:12.380They had problems with the anemia, or sorry, the anzo.
00:27:16.380In the drop of water in the dam, they started losing energy, they started going to a four day week, three day week, because they didn't have enough electrical power, and then everything fell apart.
00:27:31.380So, and that's one of those, that's the richest oil state in the world.
00:27:37.380So, it can happen anywhere, it can happen here.
00:27:40.380Now, you mentioned very briefly about this sort of fear and climate anxiety that people are experiencing, and we've seen articles written, I think in The Guardian and in some other places, about this growing climate anxiety in young children.
00:27:57.380So, if it's festering in young children, obviously it's being transmitted to them, they're being infected by the adults around them.
00:28:04.380And one of the things I like about the Friends of Science YouTube page is you sort of do things to alleviate the anxiety, telling people to step back, calm down, let's look at the facts, it's not as scary as it really is.
00:28:18.380And you actually had a poster that was accepted to, I'll let you tell the whole story, but it was, you became a victim of cancel culture, because your poster that talked about this idea of anxiety and fear around the climate, it was squashed, and I guess it was because of the topic, I think.
00:28:43.380Well, it's hard to know exactly why it was cancelled.
00:28:48.380What happened is, last spring, the Canadian Mental Health Association for Alberta proposed a conference that would have been in November of this past year.
00:28:58.380And it's about working together, and it was about workplace resiliency, it was about inclusion, it was about looking at people who might be feeling suicidal on the job, how to address that, providing some skills along the way.
00:29:14.080So I proposed a topic that was about indoctrination and delegitimization about the Alberta, particularly the Alberta oil sands workforce and related supply chain, where, you know, people not only had a tremendous job loss in a very short period of time, and all the other socioeconomic conditions that go with that, which may be divorce, financial stress, bankruptcy, and sadly, suicide.
00:29:44.080But they also are being delegitimized by the tar sands campaign, you know, the tar sands campaign is very successfully driven a rift between sort of the green people of Canada, and the real hands on energy workers of Canada.
00:30:02.560So not only are they losing their jobs, they're continuing to be humiliated by people who call them, you know, dirty tar sands workers, or, you know, that's a retirement field, there's nobody uses fossil fuels anymore, when the evidence is completely to the contrary.
00:30:21.640So that was the proposal that, you know, we should recognize that the tar sands campaign has layered this humiliation on top of these very real losses of jobs and such like.
00:30:34.920So the, they didn't accept the option of a paper, but they did accept the option of a poster, and so I put together a poster, and it was accepted.
00:30:49.060And the day before the conference, I looked online, there it was, there are five posters there, mine was the fifth, and the day of the conference, it was gone.
00:30:57.640So I asked the organizer to please repost it.
00:31:02.940There was silence for a while, and to her credit, she did write back and say, yes, there was some controversy about your poster, so we had to take it down.
00:31:10.400And, and I thought, you know, honest to God, they don't know that thousands of people in Alberta, who work in this industry, are suffering deeply, not only from job loss, but from being ostracized.
00:31:25.840And being ostracized on false claims, in addition, of climate change.
00:31:32.000You know, Bill McGibbon just had an interview with Linda Solomon Wood of the National Observer, and he called the oil sands a carbon bomb, which is baloney.
00:31:43.980And Bill McGibbon's not an engineer, he's not a geoscientist, he's not a scientist or a climate scientist of any kind.
00:31:50.580He's an activist who's been funded by the Rockefellers, and they're running, if you've read the Nemeth reports, they're, you know, part and parcel of this huge anti-fossil fuel movement in the world, transnational progressive movement.
00:32:08.220But they have no idea how the world works, the world runs on energy.
00:32:14.240And so, you know, it was really a shock to me, that an organization that proposes to help people, to alleviate the suffering of people who may be suicidal, who are suffering bankruptcy, who are being humiliated or bullied by the world, which Alberta is, and who claim to be inclusive, cut me out.
00:32:38.240When I was defending the people of Alberta, I think it's really, actually, I think it's sick.
00:32:48.120I mean, we've all heard stories about the devastation in the Alberta coal mines, the, you know, the grief of the workers, knowing that their jobs are ending simply because of a government policy.
00:33:02.660We've seen the spikes in suicides in towns like Hannah, and, you know, to completely cut them out of the equation, because the industry they work for has been demonized, the way you rightly point out, how does that help them?
00:33:16.580If that's truly your concern, is to help people having mental health challenges and suicide, how does it help them if you completely disregard their suffering based on the jobs that they do?
00:33:29.400Right. And this goes back to a book by Maria Hoda and her colleagues back in the 1930s called Marienthal, which was a town in Austria.
00:33:41.020You know, this kind of socioeconomic research on job loss goes back to that time when she went to this town of Marienthal where the entire town, it was a factory town, the entire town lost their jobs.
00:33:54.100And she and her colleagues studied the effects of this on the population, it was devastating.
00:34:01.040And that's the same kind of thing that many Albertans experience today.
00:34:05.920And it's not just within the family that lost the job, you know, it's the whole extended families, the children, it's when children go to school, and they're mocked and, and accused of being planet killers, because their parents work in oil or gas or oil sands.
00:34:21.160You know, this is a terrible, terrible thing that's happening to a great province and a great people.
00:34:28.000Well, I think that's a great place for us to move into, I guess, a personal story that you shared with me that you're willing to share with everybody else.
00:34:36.580And that is with regard to medical assistance in dying.
00:34:43.860And the liberals have shoehorned a bunch of really terrible things into this legislation.
00:34:50.080People with mental illness can now seek medical assistance in dying.
00:34:54.540It sounds like minors now can seek this without the consent of their parents, very little family involvement.
00:35:03.800And you have a personal story about this.
00:35:06.780And so, you know, when we were talking off camera, I found your concerns very compelling, because this is something that your family has gone through.
00:35:16.220Yes, my late brother, Glenn Sterling, was a very well-known chiropractor in Alberta and British Columbia.
00:35:25.320And he was a health and fitness buff all his life.
00:35:31.500He was a marathon runner, ultra marathon runner.
00:35:35.520He helped thousands of people to have better health.
00:35:40.120And in 2016, he had been working overseas and he returned home.
00:35:45.640And we knew that there was something wrong with him.
00:36:01.500So he went through a number of tests and we found that he was suffering from what's called PSP, parasupranuclear palsy, a progressive parasupranuclear palsy, which is a very aggressive form of Parkinson's, a cousin of Parkinson's.
00:36:21.480So, at the time, medical assistance in dying or MAID, as it's called, had just become part of the legislation in Alberta.
00:37:42.160But that was no guarantee that he would get it.
00:37:45.880So we had to go through many counseling sessions with social workers, with psychologists, with the physician who agreed to assist him in dying.
00:37:58.860And all along the way, the intent was to help him live.
00:38:04.360The intent was to verify whether or not he actually really wanted this or was he being coerced in some way or could he find another way forward?
00:38:13.960They all wanted to help him live, is my point.
00:38:16.700And once the system had concluded a number of these meetings, many of these meetings, you know, they recognized it.
00:38:26.800No, he actually really didn't want to live like this anymore.
00:38:29.780And they granted him the medical assistance in dying, and they gave him a very, very dignified death.
00:38:53.860But I understood that he wanted to die.
00:38:57.180And my concern now is that in a time of COVID, when people are very lonely and isolated, when they can't actually go and meet with physicians and all these counselors, when we're strapped for cash,
00:39:12.540when many people are now being deemed to be quite inconvenient by the medical system, I'm not saying the health care providers, but say the insurance companies, pension plans, the people who have to pay the tab.
00:39:28.140I think that it will just be a very convenient way to push people off a cliff.
00:39:32.980And they'll never have the kind of care and attention that my brother had.
00:39:36.060And that's my concern, is that, you know, we really don't have the money to do that kind of detailed work with people anymore.
00:39:45.340So I can imagine in a nursing home where someone will say, well, we have Jazzercise next week on Tuesday.
00:39:52.520And oh, by the way, the doctor's coming in to do MAID on Thursday.
00:39:58.260I mean, that sounds very crass and cruel.
00:40:00.440But when you look at what's happened in Belgium and Holland, where medical assistance in dying has become quite accessible,
00:40:10.740I was telling you the story that Rachel Aviv wrote in The New Yorker called The Death Treatment.
00:40:16.600And it's about how this woman who was probably in her 60s, empty nester, and had suffered from mild depression all her life, but had been functional and no huge suffering.
00:40:32.920Somehow she encountered a therapist who convinced her that she should do herself in and take medical assistance in dying.
00:40:40.300The family was not brought in to talk with her.
00:40:42.640The son got an email saying, by the way, you know, your mom's dead, and here's why.
00:40:55.240I think it's a terrible, terrible initiative.
00:40:58.800And, you know, we just celebrated or celebrated, we just recognized death of vulnerable persons by their caregivers about two weeks ago.
00:41:09.360So just imagine now with MAID, where someone who's in a position where they have few finances, little social support, little health care support, could very easily coerce a vulnerable person into making this choice.
00:41:26.480You know, Michelle, you've never shared that story with me before, but it sure does explain the tone of some of the videos over on the Friends of Science Facebook page or on the YouTube page where you are telling people, calm down.
00:42:30.020We've heard stories of grandparents who are isolated in these facilities opting for MAID because they're so isolated and alone.
00:42:39.980And it's just, you know, I think there are people working hard every day, hearing the stories of people on the other end of a suicide hotline.
00:42:49.540Why aren't we trying to help people in their darkest times instead of agreeing that there is no better days ahead?
00:42:56.500I think it's just a terrible message to send to society.
00:42:59.060Right, and, you know, there is a Quebec politician who has even suggested within the past year that, you know, if people are concerned about climate change, then they should take themselves out.
00:43:10.760You know, they should have the right to this kind of medical assistance in dying.
00:43:40.720So, you know, you have children who already, and young adults who already face many challenges in life.
00:43:49.060Thinking of this dystopian future, you know, why even go on?
00:43:55.700Because if I'm not going to get to be an adult, because I only have 12 years left, why not end it all now?
00:44:00.660Well, you know, the way that this bill is written and the way the slippery slope is, some of these kids might end up being victims of this bill.
00:44:09.080So, you know, and I mean, a case like my brother's, where somebody is obviously terminally ill, and they're not going to be able to be helped.
00:44:19.940You know, there are many people who would say, well, that's a fair choice.
00:44:25.860You know, others would reject it because of faith reasons.
00:44:30.640But I think that it can be valid, because I know that my brother didn't want to go on.
00:44:35.920But honestly, for a young person, you know, to be caught in this drama of a dystopian future, and God forbid that Greta ever becomes like the Pied Piper of Hamlet.
00:44:48.660You know, this is what I foresee as the risk to society.
00:44:52.260It's a dark place to end the show, Michelle, but you are trying to shine a light on where all of this goes, this idea of humans as this invasive species that the world is going to end.
00:45:06.680You do a lot to break that down and calm some of those fears and anxiety.
00:45:12.280So, how do people support the very important work that you're doing to take the hysteria out of the conversation?
00:45:23.160Well, on Friends of Science's main website, there is a membership and a donate button.
00:45:28.880You can also share any of our videos or our reports on your social media.
00:45:34.340We're on all social media except TikTok, so maybe we'll be there one day.
00:45:43.380But, you know, just a pitch in, and we don't want you to agree with us.
00:45:49.220We want you to be willing to open the debate.
00:45:52.900We're looking for open civil debate and full cost benefit analysis.
00:45:57.300And we're looking for the minister to actually stand by his mandate, according to these letters, that uses evidence-based decision-making to take into consideration the impacts of policies on all Canadians and fully defend the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
00:46:15.580And that Canadians do not expect us to be perfect, they expect us to be diligent, honest, open, and sincere in our efforts to serve the public interest.
00:46:27.680So, I think that we should hold the minister and the prime minister to account on those things.
00:46:35.280Michelle, I'm sorry to leave on such a sad note, but, again, I think it is such important work that you're doing to inject facts into this conversation that is so overwhelmed by gloom and doom and anxiety and fear.
00:46:53.100Michelle, we'll have you back on the show again real soon.
00:46:55.740I can send you our climate song, which came from Europe, and it offers a cheerful note.
00:47:03.140So, maybe you can put that at the end of the show.
00:48:54.680And I realize the show today went a little longer than it normally does
00:48:59.280But I thought that it was very important to hear Michelle's very personal perspective on medical assistance in dying having gone through the entire process from beginning to end in the past with her brother.
00:49:14.380I worry that people with anxiety, this anxiety that society has infected them with, are not going to get the real help that they need to go on.
00:49:26.860Well, everybody, that's the show for tonight. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'll see everybody back here or maybe not back here in the same time next week.
00:49:37.740And remember, don't let the government tell you that you've had too much to think.