SHEILA GUNN REID ｜ Constitutional Lawyer Derek From： Coerced Vaccination and Fighting for Your Rights
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Summary
Calgary-based constitutional lawyer Derek Frum joins me in an interview we recorded yesterday night to discuss the constitutional issues with vaccine passports, the obvious ineffectiveness of a vaccine passport in preventing the spread of the coronavirus pandemic, and why he thinks coerced vaccination is the constitutional hill to die on.
Transcript
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Oh, hey, Rebels, it's me, Sheila Gunn-Reed, and you're listening to a free audio-only
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recording of my weekly Wednesday night show, aptly called The Gun Show, but you know what?
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This is the internet, so you can listen or watch whenever you feel like, because that's
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the beauty of not being tied to terrestrial radio.
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Now, tonight my guest is someone who, I guess if you pay attention to civil liberties in
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Alberta, you already know who he is, but he might be a new face to some Rebel viewers
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outside of the greatest province in Canada, greatest place on the face of the earth, Alberta.
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It's Derek Frum, and he's a constitutional lawyer based out of Calgary, and tonight we're talking
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about vaccine passports and how the coronavirus pandemic has really been used to crush civil
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liberties, not only in Alberta, but really across the board and across the world.
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Some governments and now private companies are imposing vaccine passports.
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Are vaccine passports even effective, and why is almost no one bothering to fight back
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I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed, and you're watching The Gunn Show.
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The province of British Columbia is currently bringing in a vaccine passport system that
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doesn't even allow for medical or religious exemptions to the rules.
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Just look at this, BC's vaccine card for public activities leaves disabled people feeling trapped.
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As the province announced its plans for a proof-of-vaccine system for restaurants, concerts, and other
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quote, non-essential spaces, there are concerns that people with disabilities and those who can't
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Now, the province of Quebec, they've lost their mind, too.
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They're bringing in a similar vaccine passport system in the next couple of weeks using a QR code.
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However, here in Alberta, our government has rejected the idea of a vaccine passport.
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Our Premier, Jason Kenney, has even said that he will oppose any efforts by the federal government
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to impose a vaccine passport system on us here in Alberta.
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However, what's truly the difference if private companies are opting to do it instead of the
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government, like the Edmonton Oilers and the Calgary Flames, who are making proof-of-vaccination
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mandatory to attend a hockey game in a publicly funded facility?
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And our Premier, who tells us he's against vaccine passports, he's notably silent on the issue.
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Now, one person who is definitely not notably silent on the issue of vaccine passports is
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Calgary-based constitutional lawyer Derek Frum, and he joined me tonight in an interview we
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recorded yesterday night to discuss the constitutional issues with vaccine passports, the obvious
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ineffectiveness of a vaccine passport in preventing the spread of the coronavirus, and why he thinks
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coerced vaccination is the constitutional hill to die on.
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Joining me now from his Calgary home is Calgary-based lawyer Derek Frum.
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Now, Derek, you're a new face, I think, to Rebel viewers, but definitely not to me.
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Why don't you give us a bit of a background about who and what you are, the things that
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you have been working on in the past, because you're definitely not one of those homemade
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So I've been a lawyer for about 10 years, and I started my practice and I articled with the
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So originally I worked with John Carpe and then Marnie Soupkoff, Chris Schaefer, Howard
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Anglin, a bunch of names that many people will know.
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And over that time, I was able to work through a number of important constitutional cases that
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One that's very important and was a lot of work was the RV Como case, which was actually
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That was about seven years of my life from its inception in, I think, about 2012, till
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we got a decision seven years later from the Supreme Court.
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So I've been a long time, my entire legal career, I've been an advocate for personal liberty,
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for open borders within Canada, for economic freedom, and for the rights that are enshrined
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Now, one of the reasons I wanted to have you on the show is because you've been so outspoken.
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One of the few lawyers out there, I think really with the exclusion of our Fight the Fines
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lawyers and then the Justice Centre, you're one of the few lawyers out there that is so
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outspoken about the trampling of civil liberties during the time of the coronavirus.
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And lately, you've really been on my radar because you've been very outspoken against
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vaccine passports in one form or another, either from government or from private business.
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But why are you so concerned about vaccine passports?
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Well, it's actually a long, long explanation will be required for that, but I'll try to keep
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So, it became very obvious early on when I was a young lawyer, well, 10 years ago, that
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when government gives itself a tool, it creates a tool through legislation that it can use.
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That tool isn't always used how it was expected to be used.
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So, for instance, there's all sorts of legislation in Canada called civil forfeiture legislation.
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And originally, that was intended to strip criminals of the proceeds that they earned through criminal
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But it has since been completely turned on its head and turned into a revenue stream for government
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agencies to strip Canadians who have done nothing wrong of their property and fill government
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So, this has happened, and it's not unusual to be able to follow a particular tool from
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its inception to how it ultimately is used by government.
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So, it was very obvious to me, because I'm familiar with this pattern, it is, I think,
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inevitable for most legislation to have this result.
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And when I see lockdowns happening, and the first one happening in Alberta last March, it
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became very obvious to me that this was precedent setting for the future, that it will be used
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And it's not a question of if that will happen, it's a question of when it will happen.
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I can guarantee you that there is not a tool that the government ever gives itself that
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And so, for instance, this vaccine passport that we're all very concerned about now and
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vaccine mandates, they're kind of two sides of the same coin in many ways.
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But what that will be right now, it seems reasonable.
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We're just going to use it for a temporary period of time, they say this.
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I can tell you that when they find there's an appetite for it in Canada, or that the Canadian
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population will, for the most part, tolerate this sort of violation of rights, and freedoms
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are freedom to move freely and be participants in the economy and social life of our country.
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If that is tolerated by Canadians, it will be used again.
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And there's no question in my mind that Canadians get used to it, and it will show up again.
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This is really a hill to die on, because it's inevitable.
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It's inevitable that it will be used against us in the future.
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I mean, in British Columbia, they're bringing in a vaccine passport system that really
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doesn't even allow for reasonable accommodation.
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They're just saying, you have to get a vaccine.
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You have to present your papers, as they say, if you want to participate in everyday normal
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You can't say, well, I am an Orthodox Catholic.
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I cannot take a vaccine that is made with fetal tissue.
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The only vaccine that you have available for me today contains fetal cell lines.
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There's none of those exemptions being made in BC.
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What do you think the chances are that BC's vaccine passport system, with no accommodations,
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what do you think the chances are that that would withstand a constitutional challenge?
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So in 2016, if we were having this conversation, we would say it's clearly going to be found
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I'm very discouraged, both at the members of my profession.
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I'm very discouraged at how quickly Canadians caved in to fear.
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And I'm very discouraged that our governments have decided that there's a one-size-fits-all
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solution that they're trying to sell as a temporary solution.
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But really is a permanent solution in disguise.
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So vaccine passport, if you don't participate and take the vaccine, you may lose your job.
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And so it's a coercive form of government incentive to force a particular type of behavior.
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And they may say, well, it's just, it's a couple months long.
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But if your need is to put food on the table now, if you want to participate, if you're
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going to miss an opportunity or your kids are going to miss an opportunity for their
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development in whatever that is, if that's sports, school, anything like that, some sort
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People who miss those opportunities and just take a vaccine, those are actually permanent
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A child who is left behind, that could have repercussions for their entire life.
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If you lose your job and you're having difficulty putting food on the table, there could be long
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And if you choose, again, to take a vaccine, you betray your principles, you have this internal
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conflict for the rest of your life, or let's say you suffer an adverse effect from the vaccine,
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And so I don't buy the government's argument that this is a reasonable way to do things and
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Some of these consequences, the effect of a temporary mandate, a temporary vaccine passport
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And so it's very discouraging to me the way they're selling it.
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They should have reasonable accommodations built into it.
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The most obvious one, and I think everyone who's a reasonable person can agree with this.
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And that is a hill to die on when I say everyone who is a reasonable person can agree with what
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If you've had COVID-19 and have recovered, you're immune.
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You have better immunity than a vaccine will provide you with.
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In fact, there's good evidence now that you risk more by taking the vaccine than someone
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So the government is not only not listening to you, that you should be exempt from their
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But they're putting you at risk for incentivizing you to do something that's more risky than
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So it's just very clear that this is not a well thought through plan.
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And I've been struggling trying to figure out what the idea is behind it.
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All I can think of is that we've gotten to the point where the mob, in the most sad sense
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And politicians are responding to incentives driven by mob mentality.
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And so they're grasping at straws, trying to maintain power.
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And this is the last straw they've grasped at recently.
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I mean, they do keep telling us to follow the signs, but it would seem that they are chasing
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the politics and the votes here without getting too technical.
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But I mean, when we see what's happening in Israel with one of the largest vaccination
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rates in the free world, and the majority of their hospitalizations now are people who
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have received the vaccine, as in sounds like the vaccine is failing six months out.
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And instead of seeing that, examining the data, and reacting accordingly here in Canada, we
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are just pursuing the same, I guess the right word is failure.
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It's a failed strategy that we continue to pursue.
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The non-pharmaceutical interventions didn't prevent it from spreading.
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Now, it can be responded to what I just said, that, well, we don't have a control group.
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We don't know what would have happened if it weren't that way.
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But you know that Sweden is still a pretty good example.
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They are getting a few more cases than they have been through the summer, but their deaths
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And it seems to me that we chose a flawed policy and we're sticking with it.
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And we're going to do more of the same and expect different results.
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I don't know at this point if it's an indication of what we call ADE or if it's an indication
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I think we have enough data now to say, and there's scientific studies demonstrating this,
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you don't have to take my word for it, that the vaccine efficacy is fading.
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The longer out you are from your vaccine dosage that you took, the less immunity you still have.
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And the data from the UK seems to be backing that up as well.
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And so when we start looking at what we do know, vaccine efficacy seems to be fading.
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And people who have taken the vaccine still are carrying the virus and are able to spread
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the virus and do occasionally get sick from it.
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So if we run the game as a, like a game in our mind, like a game of chess, we know the rules.
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Person A has as much protection as they can from the pharmaceuticals as they can get at this point
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They can still spread the, the, the sickness to others, but yet they're demanding a person B,
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And, you know, if it were 2016, a court could clearly review that.
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And under section one of the charter would say, government, you have to provide a very good
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reason why you're restricting liberties the way you are.
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And this restriction is beyond what is necessary.
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And there's a good potential that the government's plan would be curbed by the courts.
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And I think we, I think we've seen that all play out already at the COVID jail level with
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our constitutional challenge of the COVID incarceration program of completely healthy, innocent people
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Uh, when you put it that way, it sounds crazy, but it's happening and it was upheld by the
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And the, the craziest thing that came out in that court case was if you presented at the
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airport and you just said, you know what, I'm sick, they would send you straight home
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If you present it as healthy, you had to quarantine for three days, then go home for 14 days.
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And, uh, so kind of in a, in a joking way, I've been telling people to the two first casualties
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of the COVID pandemic were rationality and the rule of law.
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And so, I mean, we're, this whole thing can be viewed for, through a lens of like game
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theory and no, we're, we discovered the rules as we've been going along as scientific studies
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Well, then at that point, masks became irrelevant.
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And what we're really should be concerned about is the amount of air space around us in a room.
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Smaller rooms get saturated more quickly with aerosol particles of virus.
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And if we're in a large ventilated space, there's not much concern.
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So my kids should never have been stopped from playing hockey this year.
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There's no concern about an aerosol particle being passed around at any great degree at that
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Kids aren't at risk and masks were useless in that environment.
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But no, we can't do that because the mob is in charge and the government will just comply
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We're writing policy based on other people's irrational fear.
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And so many of those people very rarely have children, but they want to hold your children
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I wanted to ask you really quick before we move on about, I noticed the police in Toronto,
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they've come out against forced vaccination and I'm having a really difficult time finding
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And I know that I should, because this is probably their little, you know, moment where
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they're mugged by reality because this is starting to affect them.
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But they spent a summer and a winter and a spring flattening protests of people who didn't
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And now when the chickens come home to roost and they have to comply by the COVID regulations,
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Do you think we're going to see more police forces speak out and more, even nurses and
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doctors who, who has, they've had their unions acting as mouthpieces for the lockdown movement.
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Do you think we're going to see more individuals in the public sector speak out against these
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I actually, I do, I do think that, and I think that the problem is, is kind of twofold.
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One is Canadians are, are kind of asleep generally, we're, we're, we're talking of our governments.
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We've never, our, like our generation has never had to fight for any sort of freedom at all.
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But it's, it's been completely without cost to us.
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And we've also never really seen the value of freedom demonstrated to us either.
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We, we haven't been in the Dominican looking across, you know, at Haiti, or we haven't had
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We've never, most of us have never experienced that.
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But there is, in my experience, there is one sort of Canadian that does understand that.
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Canadians that have been dragged through vexatious human rights tribunal proceedings, all of a
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sudden are woken up to the fact that we live in a country where you can't say what you want
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You have to worry what your neighbours might think of what you're saying.
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And that sort of thing, when a vexatious and frivolous complaint is made against somebody,
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and they have to spend a year of their time responding to it, and they have to hire a lawyer,
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it costs them 1000s of dollars. And even if they're exonerated in the end, their name is
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dragged through the media as being a bigot. Those people come out the other end, and they
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have very different views on freedom and liberty. They become zealots, and they understand. And
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they understand because of their close proximity with having lost their freedom. And so I think
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now I hope that those Canadians that have not appreciated what they have, now that they're
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on the cusp of losing something very significant, maybe they'll wake up, maybe they'll stand up,
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I really hope they will. Because I've got to tell you, it's, it's the majority of us. And we've been
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saying this stupid bromide for a year and a half that we're all in this together, when nothing could
00:23:37.820
be further from the truth. We have not all been in this together. And we've been told telling our
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kids, take one for the team. And just why, why we would tell our young men that they should get
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vaccinated and risk the potential heart problems, when they're at zero risk from COVID is beyond me.
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But you know what, this take one for the team thing needs to go by the wayside, because our team
00:24:02.800
sucks, and we shouldn't be loyal to it. We need to have people that actually understand
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the importance of individual liberty. There's no one that knows what's in your best interest,
00:24:13.260
Sheila, better than you. The government should not be in the business of telling you what your
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interests are. That is wrong. You know what your interests are better than anyone in the world.
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Maybe you should take the advice to those around you that love you, because people can get confused
00:24:28.700
sometimes. But that's actually something they've earned through their relationship with you. No
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bureaucrat sitting in Ottawa can tell you what you should do. They can't know you. They can't know
00:24:38.700
your life. Canadians need to wake up and realize that our number one enemy here is actually not a
00:24:44.620
virus. Our number one enemy is our governments using this against us. All of this is precedent
00:24:50.140
setting. Well, it's interesting to watch the evolution of this misplaced sense of civic duty,
00:24:58.500
that you have to participate in this mass experiment with what looks to be a failing medication to be a
00:25:08.020
good citizen. And if you care about freedom and everybody minding their own business and getting
00:25:12.360
to do what they want with their life and with their family, you're the bad guy. And the scold and
00:25:17.820
the tattletale is the good citizen now. It's very East Germany. Yeah, it is. And it does remind me of,
00:25:24.760
so I am not an expert on this. I've read a little bit of it, and I encountered some of it in law
00:25:29.900
school. But some of the interesting studies that were done on the German courts during the time
00:25:37.420
around World War II is fascinating. And about how the rule of law was often followed, but when the law
00:25:44.960
is perverse, the rule of law is nothing wonderful. Like you can have evil laws. Sure. And you can follow
00:25:53.140
them to a T. And so many conservatives and lawyers and liberals alike will say, the law was complied
00:26:00.840
with. Well, you know what? Evil laws should not be followed. And that's what makes a law evil. And
00:26:08.860
what makes people able to evaluate that? Well, they have to have a prior moral theory. You have to have
00:26:14.160
some sort of an ethical foundation for your life, where you can evaluate laws. And so that's the
00:26:22.400
other thing I worry about with Canada through all this, is I've seen, I've seen so many people that
00:26:27.880
I've respected fall in line, because it's the law, the government said this, well, I really hope that
00:26:36.180
you had a moral view of what's right and wrong. And that is a, you know, that's another argument that
00:26:43.040
we can have with people or discussion about what right and wrong are. But the fact that people won't
00:26:48.480
even evaluate what's happening is shocking to me, completely shocking, because that's exactly the
00:26:55.780
problem that they had in Germany. That's exactly the problem. The law was followed. The law was evil.
00:27:03.060
Like, people, you got to wake up, we got to evaluate what's happening, not just comply.
00:27:08.420
Well, and I think, to go off on a little bit of a tangent, but I think that's why
00:27:13.380
some of the crackdown, the COVID crackdown, particularly here in Alberta, was so harsh
00:27:18.640
on churches, is that the government can never bring people who answer to a higher moral code
00:27:25.060
into compliance with a bad law, because they are doing exactly what you're saying. They're
00:27:29.380
evaluating the law through a specific moral lens and saying, no, I cannot in good conscience
00:27:35.420
abide by that law. And I think that's why the crackdown was so harsh. It was meant to discourage
00:27:41.020
anybody else who's guided by that moral compass. Maybe they, you know, to discourage them from
00:27:48.700
getting the idea that maybe they should stand up to. Yeah, I would agree with that. And I mean,
00:27:54.880
it's sort of trite now, all these months later, but Caesar doesn't like competition.
00:28:01.680
Yeah. And, and I've learned, like, I've learned through my experience doing constitutional litigation
00:28:08.400
in a charity, that if you stand up, and you put your head up and fight the government,
00:28:13.760
what happens is they crush you, they absolutely come to crush you. So I had that conversation on
00:28:21.820
QR 77 with, with a host here in Calgary, just before Christmas. And we were discussing these sorts of
00:28:28.680
matters. And at that time, Pastor Coates had just done his now famous sermon and put it on YouTube.
00:28:35.640
And so I had that, that conversation. And, and then later, we took it offline. And, and the discussion
00:28:44.400
was, well, I hope, I hope the government of Alberta takes a reasonable approach. And I said, there's going
00:28:50.120
to be no reasonable approach. It doesn't work that way. If you, if you stand up against the government,
00:28:55.460
they have to make an example of you, they're coming to crush you. That's the only way it works.
00:29:00.580
So I had a client, Bruce Montague. He was famous back in late 90s, early 2000s, for protesting the gun
00:29:08.080
registry. He intent, he's a gunsmith from, from rural Ontario. And he intentionally did not register
00:29:16.380
his firearms collection. He wanted to get arrested to do a constitutional challenge. And so here he is,
00:29:23.020
he's just a guy who didn't do his paperwork. And he wanted to get his day in court. And so he finally,
00:29:29.060
after two years of trying, protesting it publicly, flaunting it in front of the RCMP, he finally got
00:29:34.720
arrested. And so what did they do? Well, they found him a couple of hours from home at a trade show.
00:29:41.960
They arrested him in front of his daughter. She was, I think, 12 at the time, left her stranded
00:29:46.500
without her dad. Dad got hauled off to prison. And that, so that was the first thing. So then the
00:29:52.960
next thing they did is they went after his gun collection, which fine, it was, it was part of
00:29:59.120
the criminal act. They took that. And then they went into his house. They took everything from his
00:30:04.320
house, his computers, his wife's cookbooks, the, all the silverware, the whole house was emptied. It was a
00:30:10.220
house that was empty. They took that from him. And then they started a civil forfeiture proceeding
00:30:15.740
against his house. They're going to take this 50 some year old man who tried to try to get his day
00:30:21.800
in court to do a constitutional challenge for the good of Canadians. And they're going to crush him.
00:30:27.160
They took his house away, his house that he built with his own hands. So this is what happens in my
00:30:32.720
experience is that they can't, they can't broach any competition. The government can't have a
00:30:37.920
competitor. It's a monopoly. They're the only game in town. They won't, they don't like it when other
00:30:44.100
people stand up to them. So Pastor Coates and the past, other pastors that have stood up,
00:30:49.920
this is the only response that could be expected. The government has to come in and crush them.
00:30:56.240
And that is not acceptable. That is not acceptable. Well, it's not even close to over yet. One of our
00:31:03.560
fight the fines clients church in the vine in Edmonton, they're still receiving tickets and
00:31:10.540
charges because they're sort of backdating them now to all the times that they didn't let Alberta
00:31:16.560
Health Services and Occupational Health and Safety, another long arm of the government they
00:31:21.260
used to crush these churches, come in and interrupt their services. So, you know, it never ends. And,
00:31:27.480
you know, when I see sort of backdating of tickets and charges, I know there's another lockdown coming,
00:31:34.280
just as you predict. They will do this again. And they're already taking care of the troublemakers in
00:31:39.500
advance. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I can guarantee they're thinking that way. And, you know, the government is
00:31:46.080
just another actor. They're a very special actor in society because they're venerated for some reason
00:31:53.220
by many Canadians as being somehow that when a politician or a bureaucrat works for the government,
00:31:59.980
that they suddenly stop being a human and they're an angel with the motivation of an angel.
00:32:06.140
It's mind-numbing to me how people can believe this with all the evidence to the contrary.
00:32:11.920
They're just another actor that has extraordinary powers and yet is not held in check. And that's
00:32:18.580
my big worry with all of this is that the constitution is supposed to hold the government
00:32:23.720
in check. It's supposed to be there. The rule of law is supposed to be there for Canadians to rely on
00:32:31.400
in times when we most need it. You know, in freedom of expression cases, it's not for saying things that
00:32:38.200
the status quo believes. Like, I like the colour of the sky when it's like it is outside right now.
00:32:44.320
That is not controversial. I don't need constitutional protection from the state when I say that. It's
00:32:50.180
when I say controversial things about controversial topics that the constitution has to be there to
00:32:55.760
protect me because that's what we've all agreed on. That's what it's for. But yet in times like this,
00:33:02.880
I find that the constitution is a very hard document to rely on. It's like being at a baseball game.
00:33:09.700
You have to, you're the cleanup batter, you have to win the game for your team. And you're going to
00:33:16.320
work with a bat that you know is going to shatter in your hand and cut you. You can't rely on it.
00:33:22.740
And that's what I worry right now with our with the constitution in the charter is that it is a broken
00:33:27.860
bat at a time when we need it. We need to hit one out of the park for freedom. That bat is going to
00:33:34.280
break in our hands and damage us. And we can't rely on it. And that that honestly is my biggest concern.
00:33:41.740
Yeah, as somebody once told me to view the constitution as a restraining order against
00:33:47.420
the government. You know, yeah, yeah, it should be it should be the rules of the game that they have
00:33:54.180
to follow. Yeah, they they find ways to get it. They sure do. Now I wanted to ask you really quickly
00:34:01.840
about Premier Jason Kenney, who has been noticeably absent during this federal campaign as one of the
00:34:10.260
at least now, although he wasn't always a vocal opponent against the lockdown. Jason Kenney
00:34:18.180
today is much different from Jason Kenney 90 days ago or a year ago. However, he's sort of been
00:34:24.800
disappeared, I think, from the campaign trail when normally he is out there in the forefront during
00:34:32.220
these things. But he has said that he would be against vaccine passports and he would fight the
00:34:41.340
federal government if they sought to impose one. And yet he hasn't said anything while Jason, while
00:34:48.300
Justin Trudeau won't shut up about vaccine passports. And while here in Alberta, we've seen
00:34:54.180
the flames, we've seen the oilers, they're all bringing in vaccine passports for you to be in
00:35:00.460
attendance and the stampede. Again, if you wanted to watch live music at the stampede, you had to
00:35:05.320
produce proof of vaccination or submit to a medical test, which I can't even believe I'm saying, but
00:35:10.640
that's the world we live in now. Where's Jason Kenney is my question for you.
00:35:14.480
Oh, boy, that is such a tough one. And I really hesitate to say what I think his motivations are,
00:35:23.720
because I just don't know. But he is noticeably absent. And I do recognize exactly what you said,
00:35:29.440
that he has come out on those issues in a very seemingly strong way. But I think the best judge
00:35:38.400
of future behavior is past behavior. And so this is the this is the Jason Kenney, who apologized last
00:35:46.980
May for shutting down schools and said it'll never happen again. And then lo and behold, what was it
00:35:52.540
twice, twice more, he did it to us, to my kids. And so past behavior, he's a, he's a man that seems to
00:36:01.040
say one thing and he does another. And, you know, this is a time in Canada's history where we require
00:36:08.020
strong leadership. Yeah, we require someone who, who doesn't have aspirations beyond doing what's
00:36:15.800
right. Someone who's not looking for a future in Ottawa. It requires a leader who is willing to take
00:36:24.760
a tough stand and look at the actual consequences of what he's doing. And the consequences of what
00:36:32.880
might be done to us and say, this is my hill to die on. That's, that's the type of leader that Alberta
00:36:40.780
requires right now. And it's going to be a leader that has to buck against popular trends. I mean,
00:36:48.780
there's a very concerted effort in the media right now. It's, you know, I think I could tell you the day
00:36:53.500
it started. I look back at my text messages, the day it started. Joseph Vipon, that doctor from
00:37:00.020
Calgary who works in the ER, started hitting the press that day advocating for more lockdowns and
00:37:07.240
vaccine passports. The Calgary Chamber of Commerce came out that day and advocated for vaccine passports.
00:37:14.780
I mean, this is, it's, it, it looks like a concerted effort. It doesn't make any sense when you
00:37:22.300
understand what the vaccines do. But my impression is that there's a lot of divergent interests at play
00:37:28.760
here. Public sector unions want one thing, and they're using this as an opportunity to get what
00:37:35.720
they want. The Chamber of Commerce is probably most interested in getting customers back. And they've
00:37:43.020
miscalculated thinking that the way we can get customers most comfortable back in, you know,
00:37:49.500
the, the flames arena and back in watching Oilers games that most, we can get more people back and
00:37:55.560
feeling more comfortable about it. If we can tell them the person sitting beside you has taken two
00:38:00.580
vaccine, vaccine doses. I think it's a calculation on their part. I think it's a miscalculation,
00:38:06.600
but that explains, I think why it's irrational from the point of view of, you know, looking at what
00:38:13.480
the vaccine is actually capable of doing. And Jason Kenney needs to step up and correct the record.
00:38:19.600
I think a strong leader would do so. But I'm always worried that there's that idea like,
00:38:27.680
oh, I'm moving on to Ottawa someday. And right now, Alberta, Alberta doesn't need someone who's looking
00:38:34.920
past doing the right thing now. Yeah, in a world of Cuomo's try to be a DeSantis. And I'm not sure
00:38:43.280
if we're not sure if we're getting that from Jason Kenney. Now, before I let you go, because I
00:38:47.940
promised you 20 minutes, and I think we're going on 35. I know that you have been giving advice to
00:38:55.440
people about vaccine passports and a little bit of employment advice with regard to people who work
00:39:01.360
in private industry who are potentially could face unemployment if they don't take the vaccine.
00:39:10.260
What is your one little bit of advice to those people out there?
00:39:15.260
Keep track of everything. I think the most important thing is right now with your employer,
00:39:20.500
all your interaction with them, whether you're unionized or not, whether you have a government
00:39:24.780
employer or a private employer, is you need to keep track of everything that happens. Build your case
00:39:31.560
now, collect the evidence. Every conversation, intentionally write down when it was,
00:39:37.540
what it was about. You need to have all that in place because if you're ultimately dismissed
00:39:42.600
because you stand up for your own rights, you will do far better when you speak to a lawyer at that
00:39:48.440
point if you have a clear line of evidence establishing your case. Well, Derek, I want to
00:39:55.280
thank you for being so generous with your time. I'm a little ashamed it's taken so long to have you on
00:39:59.520
the show because you're such a smart legal thinker and a true believer in freedom. And I hope that
00:40:04.880
you'll come back on again very soon. Yeah, I'd be happy to. Thanks, Derek.
00:40:16.800
Derek tells me he's absolutely inundated by people who are calling with concerns and legal questions
00:40:23.420
about being forced by their employers, both in the public and private sector, but also by their schools
00:40:29.800
and post-secondary institutions to receive a vaccine they are morally or medically opposed to. And friends,
00:40:37.820
we're getting the exact same thing here at Rebel News. People have questions. But for me, the question remains
00:40:44.860
as it has through the entirety of this pandemic. Where are all the civil liberties groups outside of,
00:40:51.320
of course, fightthefines.com and the Justice Centre and the Canadian Constitution Foundation to actually
00:40:58.380
stand up for the civil liberties of Canadians? You know, it's pretty easy to stand up for civil liberties
00:41:05.820
when no one, no government is taking them away. But it is hard work to fight the full force of the
00:41:12.800
government when the government is trying to crush you and make an example of you. Now, I'm not scared
00:41:18.340
of hard work. Derek is clearly not scared of hard work. But we are definitely finding out that a lot
00:41:24.400
of so-called civil libertarians fear hard work as much as they fear the coronavirus. Well, everybody,
00:41:31.620
that's the show for tonight. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'll see everybody back here at the same
00:41:37.240
time in the same place next weekend. Remember, don't let the government tell you that you've had too much to think.
00:41:42.800
olduğunu, like a lot of people here, don't let the government tell you if you're beginning to speak origembleness.
00:41:47.780
And that's the same passage that we may be spending on.
00:41:48.920
How it is theANEMChair is not meant to understand, which is, as you know,
00:41:50.720
Ben, Svenja. You've got Run for determinants inань,
00:41:51.580
Seriality, that's perfect especially when you see the United States of London.
00:41:53.520
And so we concur people there already don't let the government say that,
00:41:54.900
so well- acne again. And you should say mira Biden.
00:41:59.980
So we're just looking forward to making that 90 million years ago,
00:42:03.720
if you've been using 30 advocating BO Liu çocuğ jedochisan,
00:42:06.160
you know UFO fills everyone except for theない Africa.
00:42:06.980
And we're going to think about this in half a year to connaughter interface.