SPECIAL： Pamela Geller on Islam, Trump, social media and free speech
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Summary
Pamela Geller is a freedom fighter who s been in this battle for 17 years. She is a columnist, an activist, a writer, a pundit, and the editor of Geller Report. She s been fighting for freedom since the early days of the Sun-News Network, when she was named Freedom Fighter of the Year.
Transcript
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Tonight, we speak with a freedom fighter who's been in this battle for 17 years.
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It's Christmas Eve, and this is The Ezra LeVant Show.
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Why should others go to jail when you're a biggest carbon consumer I know?
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There's 8,500 customers here, and you won't give them an answer.
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You come here once a year with a sign, and you feel morally superior.
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The only thing I have to say to the government about why I publish it
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Well, over the Christmas break, we are doing a series of interviews,
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extended interviews, semi-biographical in nature, with some of our favorite newsmakers.
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Some of them are pundits, some of them are political actors,
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some of them are people who come on our show from time to time.
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And our next guest is someone we haven't spoken to in a while,
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but I was just reminiscing with her that back at the Sun News Network,
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I think it was in 2014 or something, we called her our Freedom Fighter of the Year.
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So let's check in with her to see the state of freedom in 2018.
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I'm talking, of course, about our friend Pamela Geller,
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who is an activist, a columnist, a fighter, a pundit,
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Well, it's a pleasure, and you are one of the bravest fighters out there.
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I got to know you in part when you were fighting against the massive victory mosque
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that was being planned for the actual site of the 9-11 attack.
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And I have to tell you, I didn't think you could stop it.
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I didn't think you could stop that mosque from being built.
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But you managed to stop the victory mosque at the 9-11 World Trade Center.
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I think it's a great example of what one person can do.
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Because as you know, President Obama at the time had supported it very publicly at the Iftar dinner.
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Mayor Bloomberg, the New York City mayor at the time, had his administration helping them,
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filling out the paperwork for funding and so on and so forth.
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But 40,000 people showed up on September 11th to protest the triumphal mosque.
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And imagine what a symbol that would have been to the global jihad movement.
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It certainly would have usurped the burning towers, which is on many of their patches,
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as the symbol of Islamic supremacism and Islamic victory.
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So these, you know, people think, what can I do?
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And particularly now, with the election of President Trump, which has activated the leftists
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in such a way that, on the one hand, I've seen a serious encroachment on our freedoms.
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On the other hand, they've really taken off the mask.
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And I think the American people, and actually freedom-loving peoples all over the world,
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Canada, and Europe, for the first time, are seeing how malevolent this dogma, this ideology
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And so, you know, there's a yin and there's a yang in this.
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It's certainly what we're seeing happen on social media.
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And, you know, I filed suit against social media in 2016.
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I filed a lawsuit against the Department of Justice.
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Because under Section 230 of the FEC code, the Department of Justice grants, the U.S.
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government grants immunity to social media giants from First Amendment lawsuits, which
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Because today, social media is the public square.
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The Silicon Valley billionaires say so in a bragging way.
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So we've spoken with tech writers like Alan Bokhari of Breitbart, who I think is the world's
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leading journalist about the abuses and censorship in Silicon Valley.
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And that's Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act.
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You're right, that is the key legal protection that lets these companies get away with it.
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But let me back up a little bit, because you jumped ahead to something I was going to
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Back in the 2010s, early 2010s, or even before that, you and I were on one side of the spectrum,
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and then there was the other side of the debate, and there was debates back and forth.
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And people maybe called each other names or whatnot.
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But there was a debate, and both sides were allowed to have their say.
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I think something changed, like a switch was flipped or something, and it moved from debating
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And instead of trying to rebut you, people would de-platform you, you in particular, and
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When did the left stop debating and start silencing?
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Well, the left's ideas cannot stand up to scrutiny and cannot stand up to challenge.
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And so it is essential, if they are to win, and they do mean to win at any cost, that they
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I remember during the Ground Zero mosque controversy, where I was on television really all the time,
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where Media Matters, a Soros-funded, quote-unquote, think tank, when in fact Media Matters is nothing
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more than a leftist smear machine, put out an edict.
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And it was, the headline was, to all national media, stop having Pamela Geller on television.
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And I was scheduled to be on Chris Matthews that night, and I was canceled.
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And I was never, with the exception of Fox, ever on any other channels again, until, of
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course, jihadists opened fire on me at an event I was holding in Garland, Texas, a free
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speech event in support of the Hebdo, the Charlie Hebdo slain journalists and cartoonists.
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So that, I mean, that was the first ISIS attack on American soil, and so they had to cover
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And of course, they had me on to attack me and tell me how wrong I was for standing for
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Yes, I'm all for freedom of speech, but there's no buts, okay?
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And of course, it started with myself, and it started with you, and it started with Spencer,
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Robert Spencer, and of course, those on the right, the trimmers, and the feats, and those
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that only go so far, were like, well, you know, it's okay.
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But what they don't understand is that it starts with us.
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He was shocked that YouTube had demonetized his videos, and Prager, they're taking his videos
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Well, you know, I used to work for John O'Sullivan, the great newspaper editor, and he's a think
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And he always said, it's easier to fight in the first ditch than in the last ditch.
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And I think about that a lot, because a lot of people say, well, you know, Ezra's a little
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bit out there, and Pamela Geller, ooh, she's a little too blunt, and can you just be a
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And so because they don't fight in the first ditch, okay, well, now the front line is 100
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feet closer to you, and now it's 100 feet closer.
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And it really is, the trench warfare analogy fits.
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And if you don't fight in that first ditch, well, the trench keeps moving towards you, and
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We are battle-hardoned, and what the newbies, the tremors, are experiencing now, we have
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And sadly, there are only a handful of us now, because they have systematically dismantled
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Anyone who got involved in this fight, no matter how small, I'm talking about the smallest
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bloggers, I'm talking about a Twitter account with a significant following, like an Amy
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2005, I had the blog, I guess, which was Atlas Shrugs at the time, it's the same site, it's
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just evolved to GellerReport.com, where they took my site, Atlas Shrugs, this is the left,
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they created a mirror site called Atlas Shrugs, and they photoshopped me in sexual positions
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with senior Bush officials and Glenn Reynolds, it was absurd, it was obscene, it was sick.
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I mean, I had a small little following, but they nip it in the bud.
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And of course, if you talk this way, you are a conspiracy theorist.
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But the fact is, there's conspiracy theory, and there's conspiracy fact.
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And one only has to look at what has been done to President Trump to see this method of
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A couple weeks ago, the head of Google went to a congressional hearing on Capitol Hill and
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was asked how much money the Russians spent on Google in the 2016 election campaign, and
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So that's the mania of the media party over that.
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But much more important is the meddling when YouTube, Google, Twitter, Facebook, Apple,
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iTunes take someone like Alex Jones of InfoWars, and you can take him or leave him, you can
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But which meddled in politics more when you spend $4,700 on Google ads, which is nothing.
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It's a molecule in the ocean, or banning entire voices.
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Milo Yiannopoulos, again, you can like him or hate him, but he's banned now.
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I don't agree with every word they say, but they're banned.
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Russia never banned an American from the media.
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They never thought for a second that Hillary was not going to be president of the United
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It's this huge deflection from what they did, from their treasonous activities during the
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And what they wanted to do, of course, was to tie President Trump's hands so that he couldn't,
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you know, he was so distracted he couldn't enact his policies.
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But bravo to President Trump, because I can say this without compunction that he is the
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I mean, I'm sorry, but Romney, McCain, these were weak sisters.
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And this is a 21st century war in the information battle space.
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And honestly, all we have is our individual voices.
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And all we have to reach our readers, our followers, our supporters, are our social media
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Listen, the million and a half, and it's just Pamela Geller page, it's not SIA and AFTI
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I have about six or seven on Facebook, for example.
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But the million and a half, these people chose to follow me.
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So it's interesting that Facebook is upending its very mission.
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The whole point of Facebook is, hey, to a friend, look at me.
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And so once you stop allowing the sharing, I mean, they're literally shooting themselves,
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Because we're on YouTube, which is owned by Google.
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And one day in January, February 2017, they just cut off our ad money.
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And I spoke with three different Google executives.
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I even went to their headquarters here in Toronto.
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They had three different people told me three different things.
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But what I got from them is they could not care less.
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Because they make their money from makeup videos and from cute kittens videos and from music videos.
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And, you know, political commentary is a rounding error for them most of the time.
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So when you say shoot themselves in the foot or the heart, you and I think so because we think free speech is the lifeblood of the social media.
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But what about the alternative answer, Pamela, that you and I are outliers?
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Anyone watching this video is unusual because most people are just playing a video game, watching a movie, you know, having a nonpolitical life.
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But people are absolutely beginning to see this in the daily social fabric of their lives.
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What I mean by that is people on Facebook who see a news story that surprises them and shares it.
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They're not necessarily political, but somehow it came up vis-a-vis a friend or so on and so forth.
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And they share it and suddenly they're in Facebook jail.
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And what they're also witnessing in the pop culture that you refer to is their peers being silenced.
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But Kevin Hart was, you know, blackballed for tweets he made I don't know how many years ago and I don't know how many apologies ago,
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This is now almost every day somebody else has been banned or somebody else has been taken out.
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The burning of books, the silencing of ideas, the voluntary press restrictions that we see in the media.
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And we have enough historical examples to know where this is going.
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And if you told me on 9-12, 2001, that those standing in defense of freedom and those who opposed jihad slaughter would be the ones who are marginalized or the word you use was outliers or pariahs.
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But it goes to show you how powerful and inside the left, the hard left is and has been for some time.
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Because let's be honest, in the case of Sharia and the Sharia restrictions on our society, without their partners on the left, they could never have gotten so far.
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I mean, our job is to create awareness and to educate, educate, educate.
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And there's no question we were reaching a tipping point, which is why you saw the gavel come down.
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How do I know that we're reaching the tipping point?
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Apart from my own numbers, which were hundreds of thousands of viewers and readers a day, it was the election of President Trump.
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He had everything, everyone, everything going against him.
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Everything, except the common man, except Joe Sickpack, except the blogs.
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Everyone against him, but the people, as they say.
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You know, you remind me that your story is very interesting, how you were a severely normal person until 9-11.
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I mean, I could paraphrase it, but why don't you tell us?
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I mean, I think a lot of our viewers know you and love you, but remind us how you became a warrior princess, because before 9-11, you were not.
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Before 9-11, I was your quintessential New York City career girl.
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I was the associate publisher of the New York Observer.
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I lived in a sort of, I guess, a post-historical mindset, where the good cop was on the beat.
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You know, the good guy beat the evil, the Nazis.
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I never thought it could even be remotely in jeopardy.
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I mean, even as a kid, we used to have a thing where if you're fighting with someone and they'd say, you can't do that.
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I mean, my whole premise of my thinking, my whole epistemology was wrong.
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And so I set about to understand what happened because I didn't understand what happened.
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And when I found out, I didn't understand this ideology.
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And I began reading ferociously, you know, Bache Orr and Ibn Warwick and Robert Spencer.
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And the media wasn't talking about this at all.
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And this, to me, at the time was like the 800-pound elephant in the room.
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And increasingly, I found myself online because that was the only place where it was being discussed in an open forum, good, bad, and indifferent.
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And the thing about online voices is after a while, you get to know who's who, whose sources are credible, whose stories are credible, whose sources, who doesn't source, who says crazy things.
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I mean, it doesn't take long, really, just basic common sense.
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I would comment on these account to jihad sites, some that don't exist anymore.
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But the comment sections were more lively than the posts themselves.
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And one time, I think it was a university student at Cornell, sent me the template for a blog and said, you should start blogging.
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And everything that people know about me, whether it was the ads or the ads that I did or the fight for Rivka Barry or the Ground Zero mosque or the lawsuits or the Muhammad art exhibit, everything came from the site.
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I mean, I would see signs in the New York City subway, these vicious anti-Semitic, these anti-Israel signs, posters on buses and in the subway.
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I didn't see that they were going to reject me because it was somehow saying, in any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man, support Israel, defeat jihad.
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And, of course, I was cribbing from Ayn Rand on that civilized man statement that it would be rejected by New York City.
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And the left and Islamic supremacists went nuts.
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A popular Egyptian columnist, Mona El-Tahawi, was spray painting them, you know, in the New York City subway, got arrested.
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And I became something of a, you know, a switch, a switch for people.
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Rifka Barry, again, that started with a story where I read that a girl was missing and a couple of her friends wrote me and said we're really worried about her.
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And I remember writing to Robert Spencer at the time.
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And then this thing becomes this huge story because CARE, the terrorist-type co-conspirators, unindicted co-conspirators, were trying, working with the family, to try to bring her back to this house where she had been threatened with her life.
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She had converted out of Islam, kept it a secret for three years.
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The mosque, the Noah mosque, her family's mosque, had spied on her and found out she had converted on Facebook, if I'm not mistaken, and her father threatened to kill her.
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And so, yeah, that became a big fight for me was to keep this girl alive.
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I mean, I may be a catalyst, but when I said we have to send our Christmas cards, she got thousands and thousands of Christmas cards.
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And while I may have opposed the Ground Zero mosque, it was the 40,000 people that showed up.
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It was the people that wrote to their congressmen where it became—listen, I don't know what would happen today, but I can tell you when CNN did a poll on the Ground Zero mosque, 70 percent opposed it.
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I mean, on its face, it would be like building a Shinto shrine on Pearl Harbor.
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Even the Pope withdrew the convent, if you remember.
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There was a convent being built on the grounds of a concentration camp, and it caused a great deal of consternation and pain, and they withdrew it.
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But you see, this hypersensitivity that we daily, we are demanded to respect, this hypersensitivity, don't offend Muhammad, don't insult Islam, don't criticize Islam.
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You know, you made me think of other Ground Zero mosques or Victory mosques.
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Of course, the magnificent Hagia Sophia Church in Constantinople, once it was conquered by the Turk, it became the Hagia Sophia Mosque of Istanbul.
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And even in Jerusalem, on the Temple Mount of the Jewish Temple, Islam built its own mosque.
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So there is a historic sort of territorial marking of great victories over infidels.
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I have no doubt whatsoever that a Muslim mosque at Ground Zero would have been that.
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If not expressly, it would have de facto been a Victory Mosque.
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Well, if I may add one thing to what you just said, I mean, there have been tens of thousands of Hindu temples that have been converted into mosques.
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Never in the history of Islam, never, has there been a mosque of reconciliation and healing built on the site of a conquered land.
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And, you know, the Hagia Sophia is the exemplar.
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And even more excruciating when it comes to the Temple Mount, which is the holiest Jewish site, is we are told by the Muslim world that we are not allowed, we, and I mean Jews, are not allowed to pray there.
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Again, the uneven handedness, the stark supremacism that is accepted by the world is what I find even now, even now, 18 years later, astonishing.
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You've raised so many things that I want to ask you about, but part of it makes me, I mean, you told me your story of how you transformed after 9-11.
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I feel like I was sort of woke to these issues even back then.
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And what I think flipped me into a free speech mode was when I was a publisher of the Western Standard magazine and in February of 2006, we published the Danish cartoons.
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I really, I genuinely thought that by the time our fortnightly mag came out, these would have been published everywhere else, at least in the tabloid Sun newspapers.
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And I want to tell you this, I was charged with the Human Rights Commission in 2006.
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By the time they got around interrogating me, it was 2008.
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But what I want to point out, Pamela, is back then, I had the support, some of it warm, some of it grudging, for even liberals.
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In fact, I, even our state broadcaster up here, Trudeau CBC back then, obviously it wasn't Trudeau CBC.
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But even the leftist journalists at the state broadcaster, I wrote a book on the subject, it became a bestseller, it was well-reviewed.
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I even, you know, in my entire journey, I found only two journalists out of hundreds who criticized my decision to publish them.
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And in fact, and I'm almost on my point here, there was a survey of working journalists done by Compass.
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And Compass found that 70%, 7-0% of working journalists, like they phoned up journalists, said that not only did I have the right to publish them, but that their own media ought to have published them too.
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Wait, I'll give you an even starker comparison.
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You had Margaret Thatcher, who, by the way, was on politically opposing sides to Salman Rushdie.
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He was a, you know, a flaming liberal, as it were.
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You know, of course, we know what Thatcher was a strong conservative.
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She, when she called him to tend down and she said, there's no politics here.
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You know, we will give you complete protection or round the clock protection.
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I mean, the whole world, you know, stood, stood with, with Rushdie.
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And now you fast forward and I'm scheduled to speak in the UK to lay a wreath at the site of the beheading of Lee Rigby.
00:29:01.180
And, you know, Islamic supremacists, hope, not hate, ridiculous groups that are funded by the UK government say, we don't want to hear.
00:29:14.940
Well, they're allowing in, the UK is allowing in the worst hate preachers, the inciters to genocide, inciters to Jew hatred, just, you know, welcoming.
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They speak in parliament, in the UK parliament.
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But myself and colleagues and subsequent colleagues like Lauren Southern, these people were banned from the UK as well.
00:29:39.800
Well, it tells me that the land of the Magna Carta is dead.
00:29:42.340
Yeah, well, we've spent a lot of time focusing on that country and the case of Tommy Robinson in the last six months.
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You know, not only were journalists supportive of free speech in the case of the separation of mosque and state, as I called it,
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but they were supportive, but even on a more basic level, they wanted to talk about it at all.
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Now, I actually don't know how many would support it because they won't even utter a peep about it.
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And if they do speak, I don't think they're actually speaking their own views.
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I think they're looking over their shoulder worried if they dare to support an Ezra Levan, a Pamela Gellar, a Rebel Media, a Gellar reporter, Robert Spencer, a Tommy Robinson.
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If they themselves even say, well, he's got a point there, then they will be marginalized and deplatformed.
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I don't know if the mob has changed people's minds, but it's certainly silenced them.
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This is what I thought after Garland, Texas, in my free speech event.
00:30:58.120
And I nearly named my book, my book Fatwa, this.
00:31:07.060
I want to ask you about cantankerous characters.
00:31:10.580
Because, I mean, I find you charming and beautiful and brilliant and eloquent, and I'm a huge fan, and I'm not just buttering you up.
00:31:18.100
Everyone, I think a lot of people feel that way.
00:31:22.760
But, you know, you speak very bluntly, but you're always careful about your role.
00:31:31.480
But some of the people who are fighters in this, they're flawed, as we all are.
00:31:55.840
And I will tell you, I don't think my ideas are provocative at all.
00:32:00.840
Just so that you know, I think they're elemental.
00:32:03.920
I live in a country who was founded on individual rights.
00:32:16.320
And what I'm trying to get at here is some of the people who fight for freedom have something
00:32:25.860
He's a convicted criminal who's done time in prison.
00:32:34.440
I mean, she used to work for the rebel and we fired her.
00:32:40.680
You take your free speech champions as you find them.
00:32:44.920
You can't engineer the perfect free speech martyr because then odds are they wouldn't be doing
00:32:52.040
I think of Count Dankula, the Scottish internet personality who, in sort of a dumb joke, but
00:33:09.920
A lot of things you can say wrong about the guy.
00:33:13.100
But my point here is you have to take your free speech heroes even if they are flawed.
00:33:19.740
That's that first ditch, last ditch thing we were talking.
00:33:22.960
I actually am more sympathetic to his style and his omni-skepticism than others because
00:33:29.860
I just focus on the fact that he's a dissident.
00:33:31.520
But if every single person I've listed, including you and me, there's something that could provide
00:33:44.100
Did you hear that one time where he made a mistake?
00:33:49.620
I guess my point is how do we handle the fact that there's this pretend puritanism that
00:33:56.940
if there's anything objectionable about you or me or the other names we've mentioned,
00:34:01.520
the free speech and name only people back away?
00:34:18.200
And what I mean by that is if I wasn't on the right and I wasn't standing in defense
00:34:27.320
of freedom and I was on the left, I submit to you that I would have my own show on CNN
00:34:42.320
What the left does is they take anyone, no matter how articulate or no matter how well
00:34:49.820
presented, and they will mock and ridicule and make you toxic in the public square.
00:34:56.600
That said, to some of the other people you mentioned, I mean, I wince.
00:35:03.960
I hate many of the things that some of the people that you have mentioned have done.
00:35:08.560
I'm not going to mention their names because I'm not going to join that crowd of naysayers.
00:35:14.960
But I so believe in the freedom of speech that I'll take a bullet for them because I believe
00:35:24.540
But there are many good examples, but people that have been destroyed, that have been
00:35:29.040
systematically destroyed in the media where, let's say, let's say I decided today that,
00:35:35.700
you know what, I really don't want to do this anymore.
00:35:44.240
I mean, it's just so incredibly evil what the left has done.
00:35:54.240
And what I think the problem is, is the right buys into it, buys into it, hook, line and
00:36:02.520
Listen, the left, when something wrong goes down on the left, they circle the wagons.
00:36:08.900
OK, if it's if it's Mallory or Sarsour, vicious anti-Semites leading the feminist movement
00:36:15.000
and they're still there and they're still calling the shots and the left is still standing up for
00:36:24.760
But on the other side of the coin, you have the right, which doesn't circle the wagons.
00:36:32.480
OK, and they run for the hills, which is why we have so few leaders and which is why
00:36:37.900
President Trump gave them all the finger, because that's what they so richly deserved.
00:36:42.500
So I don't think, you know, my ideas, I haven't become out there.
00:36:51.800
The country has moved so far away from our founding principles that I find it very frightening
00:37:00.700
because the free society is contingent upon freedom of speech.
00:37:10.720
You are seeing a tyrannical left where our voices are shut down.
00:37:16.340
Look, there was a time I don't, I'm sure for you as well, but there was a time when I spoke
00:37:25.120
And then you got the protests, the shout downs where you, when you went, you could not physically
00:37:34.440
And the rare time where something happens like an Ayaan, Ayaan Hirsi Ali getting an award,
00:37:39.580
an honorary degree, it becomes a brouhaha and she gets uninvited.
00:37:44.360
And that becomes such a fabulous story for the left.
00:37:46.780
Whereas Linda Sarsour, who has said there's nothing creepier than Zionism, who is a proponent
00:37:52.340
of Sharia, who believes in Saudi-style Sharia, she has the tweets to prove it, says that Netanyahu
00:37:58.840
is a waste of skin, I mean, just a disgusting, vile human being, she's given the commencement
00:38:10.860
And of course, we're painted as, to your point, the loons, the, you know, the racists, the bigots,
00:38:22.620
So when you say if there was a person, if there was a person that you described, who
00:38:27.660
was presentable and articulate and lovely, and they would be mocked and destroyed and
00:38:37.900
And you mentioned Mitt Romney, you know, handsome, lived within the rules, paid more taxes than
00:38:46.440
he was owed, declined his father's inheritance.
00:38:51.380
I mean, just, like, could not be a more by-the-book guy, and they still managed to destroy him.
00:38:58.420
And that's, you're right, that's the story of Trump, is that don't apologize, because it
00:39:04.400
I mean, I'm thinking of my old friend Gavin McInnes, they put together a highlight reel
00:39:09.200
of some of his worst things that he said, most of them out of context.
00:39:14.700
It looks awful in a highlight reel, and he was sacked from CRTV over it.
00:39:24.060
But you could take any star of the left, put together a highlight reel, a quick, you know,
00:39:30.340
compilation of them swearing, using profanity, using racial epithets, anti-gay epithets.
00:39:36.680
You could put together a 60-second highlight reel, and no one would pick it up.
00:39:44.600
You've convinced me that these so-called flaws on our people, some of them are real.
00:39:49.280
But even if they are, like a Milo is less outrageous on the right than an Al Sharpton or Van Jones
00:40:05.420
And as I said, I've been doing this for whatever, 16, 17 years.
00:40:13.520
And everything I ever said and everything I ever predicted has indeed come to pass.
00:40:22.380
I warned what his presidency would look like on Iran and on Israel, on climate change.
00:40:29.880
And in Stop the Islamization of America, I warned about the encroachment on our freedoms,
00:40:34.900
on freedom of speech, on the Islamization of school curriculums, on the Islamization of
00:40:41.320
And then, of course, in Fatwa, that's the story of me being hunted in response to a very
00:40:50.580
So I think that this apologize culture, it's a sign of weakness.
00:40:55.500
The point of saying apologize is say you were wrong.
00:40:59.320
Once you say you were wrong, we can undercut you.
00:41:03.400
So even though—and let me say this—even though President Trump, for example, after
00:41:09.660
the Garland, my free speech event, he criticized me.
00:41:33.320
They'll say, yeah, but you see in the Koran over here, it says X, Y, and Z.
00:41:37.520
Yes, but they don't know that it's been abrogated, or they don't know that it's been canceled
00:41:40.800
out, or they don't know that it's preceded by kill them all, or so on and so on and so
00:41:46.440
Listen, Islam would not have spread as far and as wide over 1,400 years as successfully
00:41:53.300
as it had, had it not been a clever little onion, you know what I mean?
00:41:58.060
Let's, you know, if we're going to call it for what it is.
00:42:09.940
They want—I mean, look, when I—I think maybe somebody else—if I had a flaw, I think
00:42:15.580
maybe somebody else would have walked away when that Atlas Jugs website went up.
00:42:34.760
It's because I want everyone to have that lovely life.
00:42:37.340
And that would be my only flaw, that I didn't say—I didn't walk away and say, oh, my God,
00:42:44.600
I'm not going to subject myself and then subsequently my family to this, you know.
00:42:52.860
I don't think I could look in the mirror because I knew.
00:43:02.460
It's like I took a bite of the fruit of knowledge.
00:43:07.300
And I think about the rebel and what is our purpose.
00:43:12.420
You know, we're a livelihood for the people who work here.
00:43:23.100
I can't—you are—the rebel media is indispensable, unrivaled.
00:43:29.440
I was going to say that for me, it's a way to express myself.
00:43:36.120
Because if I did not have the rebel to express myself, I would go mad.
00:43:47.160
I try in my own flawed way to push other people up on TV also to give them—
00:43:53.560
And we've given birth to many great alumni, by the way.
00:43:58.020
But I guess what you just said is you feel compelled to fight on.
00:44:03.980
That is my personal animation for this project.
00:44:07.880
I want the rebel to succeed as a business, as a job for its staff, as a launch pad for other talent.
00:44:13.900
But it is actually the way for me to shout at the world and try and stop it from running off the cliff.
00:44:20.500
I think that you and I have that small thing in common.
00:44:25.700
And shouting into the abyss is not freedom of speech, you know.
00:44:35.220
People look back at examples, historical examples.
00:44:38.600
Every war is different and the same in various ways.
00:44:44.920
And if you look back on the past 10 years, one can only imagine what the next 10 is going to look like.
00:44:53.780
Well, my friend, it's been wonderful to catch up with us.
00:44:56.180
And I'm sure our viewers will find what you've said very instructive.
00:44:59.980
And you have turned me around on the question that I put you.
00:45:03.480
And, folks, you can get all the Pamela Geller you like at GellerReports.com.
00:45:09.200
A very prolific writer who has been fighting this fight longer than most.
00:45:20.180
And we hope you keep at it for a long time to come.
00:45:27.440
Well, that's our feature interview with Pamela Geller.
00:45:30.420
You can get all of her commentary at GellerReports.com.
00:45:34.580
Until next time, on behalf of us here at Rebel World Headquarters, good night.