Trudeau, OPEC and coronavirus： Alberta under attack on three fronts
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Summary
William MacBeth joins me from his cozy quarantine in Calgary to talk about the impacts of the coronavirus pandemic, five years of attacks from the federal government, and the mismanagement of Rachel Notley, and now low oil prices.
Transcript
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Hello Rebels, I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed and you're listening to a free audio only recording of my
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weekly show, The Gunn Show. Tonight my guest is William Macbeth from Save Calgary. We're talking
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about the economic devastation unfolding in Alberta because of the coronavirus pandemic,
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five years of attacks, truly, from the federal government, the mismanagement of Rachel Notley,
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and now low oil prices. Now I think you're going to love listening to the show but you'll probably
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Alberta is being hammered by a three-fold assault on our economy. How is the business community ever
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going to recover from this? I'm Sheila Gunn-Reed and you're watching The Gunn Show.
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The coronavirus is just one part of a three-pronged attack on Alberta. The first,
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of course, five years of Justin Trudeau in power in Ottawa with his anti-fossil fuel agenda,
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his carbon tax and his out-of-control spending. And four of those years were enabled by former
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NDP Premier Rachel Notley with her own carbon tax, her own anti-fossil fuel agenda and her own
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out-of-control spending. The second is the predatory dumping of oil into the international
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markets by the likes of Russia and Saudi Arabia and their OPEC partners to drive down the cost of
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North American oil. The result has been Alberta oil trading at a lower per barrel price than a
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gallon of milk at the grocery store. It's a disaster. And the third, of course, is the coronavirus and the
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subsequent social distancing measures meant to stop the spread of the infection that have in turn
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resulted in a complete shutdown in major sectors of the Canadian economy. If you wanted to do away with
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Alberta, this has been an absolute perfect storm. Joining me now from his cozy quarantine in Calgary
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to talk about the impacts of these three catastrophes on the business community in Calgary,
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but also the business community in Alberta and Canada in general, is my friend William Macbeth
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from Save Calgary from Save Calgary, in an interview we recorded yesterday afternoon.
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So joining me now is my friend William Macbeth from Save Calgary, from his home in Calgary,
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because that's the only place that we're allowed to be these days. William, first off, how are you
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doing? How are you coping with the self-isolation? I've got a lot of people under my feet all the time
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and that can sort of get to me. But I mean, to be, you know, a single person isolating in an apartment
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or a condo, that's got to be tough. What are you doing to fill your days?
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You know, it's interesting. I think like many people, you see how the grass is a little bit
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greener on the other side of the fence without maybe understanding that with everything good,
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there's also something bad. So I was thinking, oh, wouldn't it be nice to have another person
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spending this time with? But then I think, except you'd be stuck with that person 24 hours a day,
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seven days a week. So, you know, for all it can be a little bit lonely and quiet,
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I do think there's some upsides because you can just be away from people if you're feeling annoyed.
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Yeah, you and I were talking off camera about how, like, at least for myself, I hope this sort of
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changes how Canadians live their lives. We are a big country. We are very sparsely populated and yet
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city planners have this desire to sort of push us all into cities and then stack us on top of each
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others in what are now sort of feeling like 400 square foot jail cells. Well, so much of our cities
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are under self-isolation. I'm wondering, just, you know, not as like an opinion of Safe Calgary, but
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as William, a person whose opinions I value and trust, do you think this might change the way
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we plan our cities in that, you know, maybe people would be a lot happier with, you know, a 12 by 12
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little plot of green space as opposed to just stacking everybody up high and not even having balconies
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these days? I mean, I think you're right that there's been this prevailing conventional wisdom lately
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that more people packed in per square kilometer of city is better. And people who still want to
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purchase large homes with yards, front yards, backyards, are almost looked at as being these
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villains. And they come at it from a few different angles that people owning their own single family
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homes are raising the cost of city services for the whole city. They say from a climate change
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perspective, it's irresponsible to consume the resources necessary to build and operate a large
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property. But I do think what we're seeing now is the downside of densification. Because when you pack
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people really closely together, and then tell them all they have to maintain social distance,
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well, your options become a lot fewer. And we were talking a little bit about what's happening in New
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York, which is one of the worst hit places in the world now for COVID-19. And I think it's because
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everybody lives on top of each other. You know, there are tiny apartments with multiple people,
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roommates living in them because they can't afford to pay the rent on their own. They don't have yards.
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New York went, you know, to order to have enough people. They built large parks, large communal parks
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that thousands or 10s of 1000s or even hundreds of 1000s of people use every day, except now they
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really can't. And you're also seeing the downside being they can't self isolate as easily as people
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here can because they don't own cars, they have to take public transit to go everywhere. There aren't
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large supermarkets, they have to shop in very small, close grocery stores, where there isn't enough
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space to maintain that two meters or in America six feet that you're being told to have to maintain.
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So I really do think this is going to raise a lot of questions about how we plan cities,
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how we plan supply chains, how we produce and consume the stuff that we need day in, day out.
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Yeah, you know what, this virus is putting me firm, like I wasn't already, but I am on team urban
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sprawl. Clearly, I think that might be the best way to live our lives and enjoy our lives
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in a way that provides us some of that social space that prevents viruses and other contagions
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from just tearing through the population like wildfire. Now, I wanted to have you on the show
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because you are my Calgary business expert. And I wanted to talk to you about what's happening in
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the business community in Calgary because of the COVID-19 outbreak, and then the subsequent actions of,
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I guess, three levels of government and the effects that that has had on Calgary businesses.
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The first thing I wanted to ask you about is the, it's from a couple weeks ago, but this Canadian
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Federation of Independent Business, they do these surveys of businesses as, you know, with regard to
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the carbon tax or, you know, whenever there's some sort of government tweaking of things that happen
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to businesses. And they said that one third of businesses in Calgary fear that they will permanently
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close within a month. And that survey was done two weeks ago. So I imagine if they did that survey now,
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it would be probably more, I estimate probably closer to 50%.
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They surveyed 10,000 small businesses when they did this. And according to Angus Reid in a separate
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poll, they found that 44% of Canadians say they or someone in their household have lost work due to
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the COVID-19 outbreak. Tell me, what does this all mean for Calgary businesses? I'm scared of the
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snowball effect down the road, what this is going to mean for residential homeowners and ratepayers down
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the road. But the immediate effects are in the business community. What are you hearing? What's
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happening? Well, you know, I, I'm certain it's the same in, in Edmonton as it is in Calgary in many
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ways. And I did read a survey from Edmonton that said one in two businesses expected to permanently close
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their doors by the end of April. And if you think about that and the, and the scale of what that
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means, small business in this country, and it's the same in Calgary is the, is the generator of
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employment. Small business is what creates jobs. It's where people derive their income from their
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salaries and where small business owners derive their income from as well. So if you were to lose
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that many small businesses, the real question is, what is everybody going to be doing when this virus
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finally passes or gets under control? How are we all going to earn a living? How are we all going
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to pay our rents or our mortgages and make ends meet and pay our bills? So you've seen the federal
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government introduce the federal wage subsidy programs going to pay up to 75% of the wages of
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small businesses. But the biggest flaw in the program is how long it's going to take in order for
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that program to get going. Because the finance minister, when he announced the criterion of it
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last week, said it would be six weeks before cash would start to flow to small businesses. And I know
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almost no small business that has enough money just sitting in a bank account to be able to pay
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two months of wages on the expectation that then government money is going to come and help them.
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So I think what you're going to see is a real business crisis here in Calgary. And of course,
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we've been hard hit already. This has been a tough city for small business, high, high taxes,
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decreased demand because of the situation in the energy sector, which got worse right on the eve of
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the coronavirus when Saudi Arabia decided to cut oil production. So it's going to take some really
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creative thinking, I think, in order to solve Calgary's business problems. And my big worry is that
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this city council just isn't up to that creative thinking. Yeah, I mean, you and I were talking
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yesterday that this is why cities need to have foresight. This is why cities need to, you know,
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have contingency plans. It seems that Calgary never really plans for the rainy day and the rainy days have
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been here for so long. Now, Calgary does have what is supposed to be a task force. We've seen a task
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force in the United States. Donald Trump's convened his people. We've seen something similar here in
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Alberta. Calgary is supposed to have a task force that's working on these sorts of things.
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They've voted just recently to defer property tax assessments to the end of September without
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penalty. Do you think that's enough? You know, and I defer to smarter people than me, but the same
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problem about this program is the problem I'm having, say, with my own income tax, which is,
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you know, the government said I don't have to pay my income tax for a few more months because they
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know that times are tough. But the bill isn't going down. They're still going to assess me the same
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amount of tax in three or four months' time. So why would I wait to pay my bill for three or four
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months, especially because, like so many people, if there's money sitting in my bank account,
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I kind of think it's mine, and I'll go do something with it, you know, irresponsible,
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like buy groceries or pay my cell phone bill. And so then it won't be there for when I need to
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actually pay the tax bill. And I think that's the problem for small businesses. Whether you charge
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them at the end of May or at the end of September, if they're still paying tens of thousands of dollars
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in property taxes that they don't have, well, the outcome is the same. They have to shut their
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doors. They have to liquidate their business in order to pay their tax bill. So if that's the extent
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of this task force's recommendations, well, that's nowhere near enough in order to solve this
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problem. Well, and, you know, it's funny to listen to the city of Calgary complain because they're
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losing $3 million in revenue because recreation facilities have closed. But the sort of the
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pleas of small business owners are falling on deaf ears because these small business owners aren't
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losing a statistical rounding error of their revenue. They're losing literally everything.
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And your point is absolutely spot on. Especially, you know, it's been food service and hospitality who
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were the first to close and the first to see this. And some have been able to retool to deal with
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doing takeout orders. But I mean, a lot of them have seen like a 90% drop in their business if they
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are able to stay open. Restaurants, it's such a small margin and they require, they rely on
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constant liquidity. They are paying tomorrow's bills with today's cash. That's how fast the money comes
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in and goes back out the door. Deferring their tax payment doesn't do much if they haven't been open
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to earn the money to pay the tax bill. I think all three levels of government absolutely must provide
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some level of tax relief for the business community, but not just for the business community,
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for the self-employed and just normal people. Normal people. I mean, the fact that they've got to pay
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their taxes while they are, you know, unemployed indefinitely. And who knows if the businesses are
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going to remain to re-employ them? People need tax relief right now. However, that's not what they're
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getting. They got an increase in the tax bill by 50%, at least on the carbon tax, April 1st.
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No, you're completely right. And, you know, talking about the city, well, you're right. They have lost
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$3 million in revenue, apparently, from those rec centers being closed. But there's a $4.1 billion budget,
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which they just approved in final form yesterday. And they're not doing what everybody else is doing
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in this tough time, which is reducing their costs. They are maintaining the same level of cost. And
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we'll use the rec center, for example. Those rec centers must employ hundreds of people. Are those
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people still being paid? And I think for the city of Calgary, the answer overwhelmingly is yes. They're
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still paying all of their employees, even if those employees aren't particularly delivering any product or
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service anymore to taxpayers. Now, I don't want to see anybody lose their job. I know how difficult it is for
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someone to lose their job. But as a city, we have to ask ourselves, if we don't cut our costs, and as a result, end up
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crushing our entire business sector, well, then the only employees we'll have left at the end of this
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will be government employees. In fact, if you think about it, at the end of this, there will only be
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the only people paying out money will be the government, either through salaries or through
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social support. The fact that we're eroding wealth is, in my opinion, a problem as serious as the COVID-19
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coronavirus. So to raise taxes 7.5% on homeowners who already have to pay all of the costs of
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operating a house, of maintaining a family, of buying food, of paying off debt and bills and gas
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for the car, which I admit now is cheaper because there's a price war over the price of oil. But still,
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all of these things combined, simply hiking taxes is irresponsible. I think the city needed to show
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leadership. And they needed to furlough staff and pay them part-time wages or pay them less wages,
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but they didn't show that kind of leadership. Now, I wanted to touch on the carbon tax with you,
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because you've been a conservative activist, probably for longer than me. And that's not a
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comment on your age. That's just a comment on how you're an early adopter of good ideas.
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Justin Trudeau, in the midst of this, while it seems as though he's finally acknowledging the
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fact that truckers and farmers are the two industries you can always count on when, you
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know, the chips are down, when nobody else can work, it is truckers and farmers who seem to be
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keeping everything together, keeping people fed, keeping the supply chains open. And yet, in the midst of
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this, these two, you know, for truckers, they're really risking contagion every time they do a
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delivery that they are, you know, continuing to work and leaving their families to do these long
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haul jobs to make sure that everybody can go to the grocery store and get what they need.
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Trudeau hammers them with a 50% hike in the carbon tax in the middle of, I would suggest,
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the worst economic crisis since the dirty 30s. No, it's a, it's a display of ideology trumping
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sound policy in the extreme. And you'll see it from a few of their cabinet ministers. Now,
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to their credit, people like Christopher Freeland, and for the most part, Bill Morneau have tried to
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say all the right things when it comes to supporting all industries, all sectors, despite not delivering an
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economic recovery plan for the energy sector, Bill Morneau promised one, so at least he paid lip
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service to it. There are cabinet ministers out there who are using this viral pandemic as an
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opportunity to push a decarbonized, no oil and gas agenda for Canada. And Catherine McKenna,
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who is at the top of the list for those for whom, you know, the carbon tax and the whole climate change
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is far more important than people being able to pay their bills and make ends meet. And she said
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point blank, well, we're there should be no bailout plan. There should be no support for the energy
00:20:27.060
sector. We have to build a new economy where we don't consume natural resources and oil and gas
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anymore. And I thought to myself, well, doesn't that just show the callousness of some of these
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people who don't care about the fact that there are hundreds of thousands, millions of Canadians out
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of work who are struggling to make ends meet so long as they can use it to advance their agenda
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and at the expense of Canadians. It's unconscionable on the part of those people.
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Yeah, they see this virus and the economic fallout surrounding the virus as an opportunity. It's,
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you know, never let a crisis go to waste, I suppose. William, I know that you're spending a lot of time
00:21:10.480
time, uh, cooped up in your house. What is in your Netflix queue? And have you watched
00:21:19.940
Well, I hear admission time. I have not yet watched Tiger King. I've sort of been saving it. I feel that
00:21:26.740
Tiger King is so good and so outrageous that it should be held for an emergency for when I really
00:21:33.600
have run out of things to watch on Netflix or one of the other streaming services I buy. And when I'm
00:21:39.000
really desperate for it, I'll break the glass and watch Tiger King. I've been watching, what have I
00:21:44.640
been watching? I don't know. I've watched, um, Star Trek Picard, which I enjoyed. I thought that was
00:21:49.920
good. And I'm rewatching Parks and Rec reruns because it's an example of a government, a local
00:21:56.900
government who, while maybe a bit taxed and spend for my liking, at least cares about the voters and
00:22:01.960
tries to do things that help them. So that's a nice change from our local government here. And, uh, I don't know
00:22:08.380
what I'm going to watch next week though. So, you know, Sheila, if you have any recommendations or
00:22:12.480
anybody who watches this has any recommendations, please send me a tweet and let me know.
00:22:17.660
I am watching Twin Peaks from the very beginning and to avoid a sedentary lifestyle, I allow myself
00:22:26.000
one episode of Twin Peaks. Um, and I'm only allowed to watch it on the treadmill. And so I, I'm,
00:22:33.460
I like 30 years later, I'm sort of enjoying the show through fresh eyes and I like how campy it is
00:22:40.100
and weird it is. And to see like the actors that are in it and what they went on to do is kind of
00:22:45.340
fun. But yeah, I, I'm, I'm slightly addicted to the show. So I'm only allowing myself an episode
00:22:52.160
if I watch it while on the treadmill and I don't get tangled up in my earbuds and fall off like I did
00:22:58.180
last night when the dog and cat got fighting in front of me. Um, William, uh, save Calgary.
00:23:05.780
You guys are still out there trying to ID, you know, the next conservative, um, competition to,
00:23:14.380
uh, Mayor Nenshi because democracy hasn't stopped as much as the liberals would like it to. Um,
00:23:21.040
how do people support the work that save Calgary is doing despite the pandemic? And I know it's,
00:23:27.180
you know, it's a tough time for everybody, but I think the work that saved Calgary is so important.
00:23:34.340
It's so important because supporting you with a little bit of money can save you a lot of money
00:23:39.360
on the backside. Like when you guys were key players in stopping those Olympics. Oh my God,
00:23:43.540
thank God you guys stopped the Olympics. Like I was just thinking about that now that's a bill that
00:23:48.620
nobody needed. Well, thank you so much. And you're right. As much as this virus and this pandemic are
00:23:54.300
consuming so much of our lives, government and politics always marches on. And we do have a
00:24:00.340
municipal election coming up in the not too distant future. In fact, uh, later today,
00:24:05.020
save Calgary or maybe tomorrow, save Calgary plans to put out another e-newsletter talking about
00:24:09.600
some of the ways the city can save money to cut taxes. Now I know they just voted to raise them,
00:24:15.460
but good news city council likes to flip flop. So hopefully if we can compress them,
00:24:19.700
compel them enough, they'll find ways to, to do that. So look for that. If they want to support
00:24:24.040
save Calgary, they can visit us on our website, savecalgary.com. They can sign up to our email
00:24:29.200
list. They can make us a donation securely online through our website, and they can follow us on our
00:24:34.520
social media on Facebook and Twitter, both at save Calgary. And we really hope that while people
00:24:40.600
are taking care of themselves and taking care of others and taking care of their family,
00:24:44.880
they also take care of their city. And that means not reelecting a group of people who did not plan
00:24:52.240
for this crisis and have no idea how to solve it. So we're going to be putting out our ideas and we
00:24:58.240
are going to be continuing our work despite the fact that we're all locked inside. That gives us a
00:25:03.180
little bit more time to do some research since we're all stuck in our dreams all day.
00:25:07.440
Oh, I love that the glass is half full. Um, William, thank you so much for coming on the show. Please
00:25:12.360
stay safe, stay healthy. And, uh, as always stay in touch. Well, thanks Sheila. It's great to talk to
00:25:18.460
you. I think there is a bit of a trend right now in the mainstream media and from within the bowels
00:25:31.160
of government. And so often those two messages seem to converge, um, to the point where they are
00:25:37.840
indistinguishable from each other, um, that people who are like myself, gravely concerned about the
00:25:44.100
economic fallout of the social distancing measures meant to deal with the coronavirus and the
00:25:49.340
authoritarian measures being taken by governments, both local, provincial, and national to enforce
00:25:57.320
certain behavior rules, um, to deal with the coronavirus outbreak, um, that those people are not
00:26:04.260
also sufficiently concerned about the health implications of the coronavirus outbreak. And
00:26:09.660
I think those things are not mutually exclusive. I think in fact, they are equally as important
00:26:15.660
as each other. And I refuse to let the government convince me otherwise. Last week, there were
00:26:23.540
the number said 2 million people in Canada who had filed for unemployment benefits. This week,
00:26:31.600
we heard the news that it's closer to 4 million people over the course of the last three weeks
00:26:37.200
who filed for unemployment benefits. Those are 4 million breadwinners in this country out of work.
00:26:43.260
And it is my concern that we might be creating a permanent welfare class in this country. If we don't
00:26:51.620
do something to preserve the businesses where those people work, if they don't have jobs to go back to,
00:26:58.100
what do we do with them? We can't have them on welfare forever, and we can't rob them of the
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dignity of a job. Well, everybody, that's the show for tonight. Thank you so much for tuning in.
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I'll see everybody back here in the same time, in the same place next week. Please stay healthy,
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stay safe, take care of yourselves and your loved ones, because you'll do it better than the government
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ever will. And remember, don't let the government tell you that you've had too much to think.