War for free speech continues： Tommy Robinson in Copenhagen
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
177.01105
Summary
A podcast account of what I saw in Copenhagen, Denmark, where Tommy Robinson received a World Free Press Award, and was heckled by Antifa outside. But the most interesting part of all was Tommy Robinson explaining how Facebook had put him on a secret blacklist.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
Hello, my rebels. Today, I give you a podcast account of what I saw in Copenhagen, Denmark.
00:00:06.540
I went there because Tommy Robinson was receiving a World Free Press Award.
00:00:10.940
That was very interesting. My engagement with Antifa outside was interesting.
00:00:16.820
But the most interesting part of all was Tommy Robinson explaining
00:00:20.880
how Facebook had put him on a secret blacklist.
00:00:26.120
Well, if it's a secret blacklist, how do you know about it?
00:00:28.920
Well, incredibly, the head of Facebook in Denmark told him.
00:00:34.200
All right, I'll let you... Well, you can't see it.
00:00:36.280
I wish you could see it because some of it is in Danish and we have subtitles.
00:00:39.660
But I think you can get the gist of it on the podcast.
00:00:41.980
Let me encourage you to get the video version of the podcast.
00:00:50.760
And it's eight bucks a month, which is no big deal.
00:00:53.500
And you get the video version of the show where you'll be able to see what happened
00:00:59.040
I'd appreciate the support if you could do that.
00:01:19.480
I'll show you the latest battle from Copenhagen, Denmark.
00:01:22.580
It's January 20th, and this is the Ezra Levant Show.
00:01:27.940
Why should others go to jail when you're a biggest carbon consumer I know?
00:01:31.660
There's 8,500 customers here, and you won't give them an answer.
00:01:35.740
The only thing I have to say to the government about why I publish it is because it's my bloody
00:01:41.600
As you may have noticed, I went to Copenhagen, Denmark on Friday, because on Saturday, Tommy
00:01:52.200
Robinson received the prestigious Free Press Society's award in that city.
00:01:57.600
Tommy joins the ranks of British philosopher Roger Scruton, commentator Douglas Murray, our
00:02:02.620
friend Mark Stein, as a defender of free speech and journalism.
00:02:06.820
It was such an encouraging place to be, a larger room in, a pretty large room, hundreds
00:02:13.140
of people in the Danish parliament was the venue, and it was packed.
00:02:16.460
In fact, I saw them turning away someone at the door who didn't have a ticket because it
00:02:24.000
I had no idea Tommy was going to win this prize until I happened literally by coincidence
00:02:28.680
to call him up to say Happy New Year on, I think it was Thursday, and he mentioned
00:02:33.820
I follow Tommy pretty closely, and the fact that he was winning this major prize, and
00:02:39.040
I hadn't seen a peep about it anywhere except in Danish, I guess, shows me that the media
00:02:51.580
That's a big British newspaper, claims to be conservative, claims to support the working
00:02:57.060
They're literally trying to claim that Tommy Robinson, who was in solitary confinement for
00:03:02.920
66 days in Belmarsh Prison, because he has a kettle and apple juice and some tins of tuna
00:03:09.200
that he had to buy with his own money, by the way, which I think is quite odd, but at least
00:03:13.420
they let him buy as much food as he wanted this time, unlike when he was in solitary confinement
00:03:18.580
in Onley Prison, they actually called that a luxury, to have a kettle and tuna and a TV
00:03:29.600
And The Sun, that also claims to be a right-wing working class newspaper, same story.
00:03:36.020
I tell you that to prove that the media will literally report any jot or tittle about Tommy's
00:03:41.280
life, no matter how tiny, to sell newspapers and also to smear and undermine him.
00:03:46.420
They hate him professionally, it's like their job to hate Tommy, it's a bit gross, but not
00:03:51.620
a single mainstream media report about Tommy winning the world's most prestigious free
00:03:57.580
It's weird because Russia Today, which is owned by the Kremlin, they actually sent a camera
00:04:03.520
to the event, to a free speech event, Russia, and they filmed Tommy and they filmed the event
00:04:10.820
Now, they didn't actually say a word in their video, no commentary at all, no spin, they just
00:04:15.120
turned on their camera and recorded the sounds of what they saw, both sides, Tommy and his
00:04:21.840
I'm sorry, but how weird is it that a state broadcaster from an authoritarian regime like
00:04:31.540
They just turned their camera on and showed what was happening.
00:04:34.380
But no mainstream media from the West did the same.
00:04:41.940
They certainly follow my tweets, so they would have heard about it.
00:04:44.480
Don't tell me it wasn't a visually interesting or newsworthy event.
00:04:49.340
In the Danish parliament, protesters outside, it was a news event.
00:04:53.540
The mainstream media just didn't want to tell the other side of the story, that their
00:04:56.380
own hatred for Tommy Robinson is not shared uniformly.
00:04:59.360
That in fact, in Denmark, he had a hero's welcome in the parliament.
00:05:02.460
Here's the Danish MP, Marie Krarup, who had a short introductory comment.
00:05:06.440
She was glad to host Tommy and the Free Press Society.
00:05:08.880
And one of the reasons they did was because the parliament is a high-security facility.
00:05:13.480
That I, as a parliamentarian state, am able to provide to this hall where we can hold
00:05:21.560
meetings that are high-security, which this is, as I understand it.
00:05:26.080
So, I'm very happy that the Free Speech Society has invited you.
00:05:36.340
And I'm happy that it's possible to host you here in the parliament.
00:05:43.640
I spoke with some of my friends from the Free Speech Society.
00:05:46.740
I had met them back when I won the prize in 2014 for fighting against Canada's censorious
00:05:53.600
And I told them that I don't believe that either the UK or Canada would have permitted such
00:06:01.840
I mean, Canada's parliament bans rebel journalists like me and David Manzies and Kian Bexte and
00:06:06.940
Sheila Gunn-Reed from even covering the prime minister on parliamentary premises.
00:06:11.540
They even banned us from covering the election debates till the federal court slapped them
00:06:19.640
I'm going to show you something from his speech that I didn't know before and that actually
00:06:24.700
And that doesn't happen a lot anymore that I'm shocked by things.
00:06:29.660
But first, let me show you an interaction from outside the parliament.
00:06:35.620
Actually, I was literally on the street walking in Copenhagen and I heard a car honk and obviously
00:06:41.820
Walking in Copenhagen, obviously no one was honking at me, but actually they were.
00:06:46.760
It was Tommy in a vehicle being driven by a police officer who was escorting him to the
00:06:55.780
I interviewed Tommy briefly in that short car ride.
00:06:59.280
In the United Kingdom, police often come to arrest Tommy.
00:07:03.700
In Denmark, the police are a security protection detail for him.
00:07:08.100
So they dropped Tommy off at a special entrance and I walked around to the main door and I
00:07:15.280
And I thought, oh, I've got 10 minutes, 15 minutes to kill before it starts.
00:07:21.360
Now, I'm in Denmark and I don't really know the lay of the land that well.
00:07:24.900
So out of a friendly courtesy, I asked a cop if he minded if I went over to interview Antifa.
00:07:30.700
I mean, I knew he'd say go ahead, but it was my way of introducing myself to the cops
00:07:37.100
I was a little being a little obsequious just because I wasn't on my home turf and I wanted
00:07:45.600
Well, let me show you the next five minutes of what happened.
00:08:30.480
Well, I went there to talk to the Antifa protesters, and I think they spoke pretty good English, but they could tell that I wasn't like them.
00:08:40.180
I wasn't dressed in black. I had a shower today, and there's another few indicia that they knew I wasn't on their side.
00:08:47.440
So a ringleader came out and got in my way and touched my selfie stick.
00:08:53.040
The cops came in and calmed everything down pretty quick and asked me to give them a couple of feet.
00:08:56.820
I will. I'm not like the Antifa. I don't believe in censoring people.
00:09:01.400
I sort of want to do the opposite, ask them what they believe in.
00:09:11.180
I'm filming because it's a free country. What's your name?
00:09:15.220
Please stop filming. We're not happy about being filmed.
00:09:17.960
I can tell that, but it's a protest. Protests can speak to the public, aren't they?
00:09:24.320
I'm not going to do that because I'm a free country.
00:09:25.820
I don't mind. Oh, yeah. Hello, I'm Brian from Black Lives Matter.
00:09:29.560
Fuck off or racist. But people don't want to be filmed.
00:09:44.100
Okay. Well, it looks like the police don't want me to provoke.
00:09:50.060
I'm getting a gentle push from the police lady behind me.
00:09:53.520
How are you? So I'm going to sign off now because I got to, I'm going to go in.
00:09:59.260
I'm going to take this away now, okay? Because you're joking.
00:10:13.800
Well, I'm getting a gentle push or a back rub from a lady cop, which is a little bit disappointing.
00:10:22.100
I mean, it is the Free Press Society. It is sort of a gentle massage.
00:11:05.780
Anyways, as usual, it's the cops who buckle because they know that the path of least resistance
00:11:12.080
is to push around free speech activists as opposed to anti-foot thugs.
00:11:17.740
I wasn't roughed up in any way, but I was handled a little bit.
00:11:22.860
But I'll go inside now where the MPs, at least, still believe in freedom.
00:11:29.380
That, I think that's cops pretty much everywhere these days, isn't it?
00:11:32.620
Take the easy way, take the path of least resistance.
00:11:35.820
Which means moving peaceful people out and caving in to violent people.
00:11:41.680
We've seen more and more of that in Canada, too, as our own David Menzies repeatedly gets
00:11:49.120
He went to report on a pro-terrorist vigil in Toronto after that Iranian terrorist was killed.
00:11:55.040
And the police literally told David Menzies he could not call Osama bin Laden a terrorist
00:12:03.000
If I was to call Osama bin Laden a terrorist, that would be against...
00:12:19.520
Another event, another cop, said that David was not a real journalist, so he had no rights.
00:12:25.760
As if our Canadian constitution gives free speech only to a list of approved people generated
00:12:32.200
David, by the way, is the only journalist here at Rebel News who actually does have a
00:12:35.960
journalism degree, I should tell you, but I don't hold that against him.
00:12:39.900
What you're doing, so I'm cautioning you this off.
00:12:52.740
When cops start sounding like Antifa, you've got yourself a problem.
00:12:56.240
Anyways, it was a great event, this award for Tommy, and I've been to dozens of these
00:13:02.820
I feel like I sort of know what they're about, but I learned something new at this one, and
00:13:10.460
I'm going to play a few minutes straight from that speech now, so you'll see Tommy speaking.
00:13:16.920
He had just won the free speech award, and he's giving actually a one-hour presentation.
00:13:20.340
You can find the whole thing on our website, tommyprize.com, if you want to see the whole
00:13:25.480
Anyway, in his speech, he plays some clips from Danish TV.
00:13:29.720
They're in Danish, but there's subtitles in English underneath.
00:13:34.460
Now, this is a few minutes long, but I think you have to watch the whole thing, okay?
00:13:39.860
You can hear the Danish journalist asking him some questions about these applications.
00:13:44.000
If you're watching Guardian, there's something else that Tommy Robbins, who has asked on Facebook
00:13:52.760
He says, if he doesn't have done anything, how can I, as a journalist, check if you have
00:13:57.760
documentation for your opinion towards Tommy Robbins?
00:14:00.460
He says, if he doesn't have done anything, he says, if he doesn't have done anything else.
00:14:09.460
Let's have a little look at what they said in their press statement that went around the
00:14:18.340
A post urging people to terrorise and behead those who follow the Koran.
00:14:26.460
Now, this interview with the head of communication has actually revealed a lot.
00:14:31.460
It revealed that I'm a designated hate figure, and people can go on Facebook and they can
00:14:39.460
In fact, using their guidelines, they can encourage murder about me, and it will not
00:14:43.460
But anyone says one positive word about me, they can be deleted.
00:14:49.460
Only negative stuff can be said about me all morning.
00:14:57.460
But what's happening now, is that people who are talking about Tommy Robbinson from
00:15:02.460
fjernet of their opinion, are blocked, are blocked, or are being treated
00:15:09.460
Our rules are not to be talking about Tommy Robbinson.
00:15:15.460
I'm going to have an 18-pillar announcement there.
00:15:25.460
We have laws in the UK, we have laws across Europe that prevent incitement to hatred.
00:15:30.460
We have criminal laws, and they're good laws, and people should be prevented from inciting
00:15:43.460
My opposition to Islam is what's resolved in this.
00:15:48.460
Literally any mention of publicity around me is removed, as this TV network found out
00:15:53.460
themselves, when they advertised the fact that I would be on their show, that they would
00:16:02.460
I can't wait to open the questions, although, at the same time you said, I'd call
00:16:04.460
I can't wait to comment on Tommy Robbinson with the best news.
00:16:06.460
The next time I recorded, I wrote things these to be taken from you.
00:16:08.460
I believe, the voice mentioned was once again he's began atapatizle at the
00:16:13.460
What is the best article on Tommy Robinson we should read in the redaction?
00:16:18.460
It took 9 minutes, and the proposal was removed.
00:16:22.460
Is it possible for the understanding of a phenomenon like Tommy Robinson,
00:16:26.460
and the possibility of talking about the thinking he represents,
00:16:41.460
How many thousands of million people in my country have Facebook?
00:16:48.460
The ability for people to hear the other side of the story,
00:16:50.460
which is what we pride ourselves on, has now gone.
00:16:53.460
Who authorises who can and can't have Facebook?
00:17:04.460
Well, as I said, this complete list is 8-year-old.
00:17:08.460
And what are the list of people who are completely out of Tommy Robinson?
00:17:11.460
It's a list of people who, over our common rules of hate speech,
00:17:18.460
who actually doesn't allow people to support them.
00:17:33.460
It's not my role to be lediged in all the details of this.
00:17:41.460
We have the team that is working on our politics.
00:17:50.460
in cooperation with external experts, when they are doing it.
00:18:00.460
other than, in rumors, banning someone for false reasons.
00:18:06.460
It's absurd to say Tommy wanted to behead people.
00:18:09.460
That's actually the style of the folks who want to kill Tommy.
00:18:16.460
They eventually admitted it absurd, but they stand by their banning of him.
00:18:19.460
They literally say the only things you are allowed to post about Tommy online
00:18:27.460
Being neutral or supportive will get you banned.
00:18:30.460
Have you ever heard anything more Orwellian in your life?
00:18:33.460
Full credit to the Danish TV station for actually asking those questions.
00:18:39.460
That TV station doesn't particularly like Tommy.
00:18:42.460
Honestly, they don't, but I guess they're true enough liberals in that Danish way.
00:18:52.460
So they asked the question, but the banality and the calmness and the smiles
00:18:56.460
with which this Danish Facebook spokesman answered,
00:19:02.460
I mean, really, what are you really going to do about our secret enemies list
00:19:08.460
and our, you know, our crazy, what are you going to do about it?
00:19:11.460
I mean, Facebook is one of the richest companies in the world
00:19:16.460
They're not afraid of Denmark, a country of five million people.
00:19:22.460
Authoritarians like Justin Trudeau get along well with Facebook
00:19:33.460
Or he'll regulate them lightly, as long as they do his political dirty work for him.
00:19:37.460
I mean, really, how long before we are depersoned here in Canada, too, like Tommy Robinson was.
00:19:43.460
And after that, I guess, how long until you're depersoned?
00:19:50.460
Først slettede Facebook den radikale højrefløjsaktivist Tommy Robinsons profil.
00:20:07.460
Facebook slette opslag, der støttede Tommy Robinson.
00:20:11.460
Facebook slette opslag, der bare nævner Tommy Robinsons navn.
00:20:17.460
Hvor kan jeg som journalist tjekke, at I har dokumentation for jeres anklage mod Tommy Robinson?
00:20:23.460
Ja, altså, der er ikke sådan et opslag, som så er det, det var.
00:20:30.460
Og hvor kan jeg som journalist tjekke dokumentationen for jeres anklage?
00:20:36.460
Og det er ikke fordi, jeg kan sidde her og love, at det kommer du til at kunne på et bestemt tidspunkt.
00:20:43.460
Altså, som sagt, den her konkrete liste er ikke offentlig.
00:20:47.460
Og det er en liste over dem, der er helt udelukket som Tommy Robinson?
00:20:50.460
Det er en liste over de personer, hvor vi ud over vores almindelige regler imod hate speech,
00:20:57.460
faktisk heller ikke tillader folk at hylde eller støtte dem.
00:21:04.460
Jamen, det ved jeg ikke. Jeg har faktisk heller ikke set den selv.
00:21:11.460
Det er det mest fantastiske ting, jeg har vist.
00:21:14.460
Det konfirmer alle mine bedre bedre bedre om Facebook,
00:21:18.460
og faktisk mest sociale medierne i San Francisco,
00:21:22.460
som er, at de har et sikre set af regler for politisk hygien.
00:21:39.460
Jeg mener, vi er ikke så ruff som Tommy Robinson,
00:21:49.460
who writes for the leading newspapers of our country,
00:22:01.460
to talk about an experience he had with Facebook.
00:22:08.460
Facebook is in an interesting position these days,
00:22:21.460
We went through it, and I really liked your premise.
00:22:24.460
It's that victimology, it undermines groups that embrace it,
00:22:31.460
whether it's aboriginal bands or Yasser Arafat,
00:22:37.460
And I think you wrote this with a great sympathy
00:22:43.460
It's almost like a prescription of don't do this
00:22:46.460
because you'll be trapped in that negative spiral.
00:22:49.460
It almost felt like a tough talk, tough love, self-help guide
00:23:03.460
There have been 113 billion people in the history of this planet,
00:23:08.460
We're going to knock into each other, even accidentally,
00:23:11.460
never mind the people among us and in history that seek to do harm.
00:23:15.460
So the question then is, what do you do about it?
00:23:17.460
So yeah, that's a basic premise of the victim cult.
00:23:19.460
Not that you deny that people have been harmed in history or now,
00:23:22.460
but how do you actually constructively combat that if you're a victim
00:23:29.460
I mean, a friend of mine from the Ottawa Film Society,
00:23:33.460
Freethinking Film Society, described the book as very sympathetic,
00:23:37.460
a very sympathetic county of minorities and aboriginals as well.
00:23:41.460
So it's not that I'm denying that harm has occurred in history or now.
00:23:45.460
The key point of the book, though, is you better watch out
00:23:49.460
Otherwise, you're going to end up in the position of a lot of people
00:23:55.460
So, and Barbara Kaye in the National Post noticed this.
00:23:59.460
I mean, the book has been excerpted in the New York Post.
00:24:02.460
So along comes Facebook last week after begging me to advertise
00:24:06.460
for weeks upon end, you know, those annoying ads that sometimes
00:24:13.460
I put in a couple of ads, including one, by the way, on, you know,
00:24:16.460
are we too tough in Western civilization with a picture of John A. McDonald.
00:24:20.460
Well, after an initial couple of small runs of these ads,
00:24:23.460
testing them out on the Toronto market, the Calgary market, other markets,
00:24:27.460
I get these messages from Facebook that the ad has now been banned.
00:24:31.460
And when I appeal, they don't reinstate the ad.
00:24:34.460
What they do is they ban my advertising account.
00:24:38.460
We've got an image on the screen right now of your Facebook page
00:24:43.460
that you sent us showing, like, it's just a picture of the thumbnail,
00:24:49.460
a picture of the front of your book, a new book from Mark Milkey,
00:24:54.460
And it just, you know, know someone who plays the victim.
00:24:59.460
And I think we have one more image to show as well,
00:25:08.460
It's popular to blame multiple ills today on those long dead,
00:25:12.460
be they John A. McDonald or Christopher Columbus,
00:25:14.460
and then engage in Taliban-like raising of their statues.
00:25:20.460
And I just want to read a little bit and then I'll throw right back to you, Mark.
00:25:23.460
But let me read the reason why this was banned.
00:25:28.460
This ad can't run because it promotes products, services,
00:25:34.460
schemes or offers using deceptive or misleading practices,
00:25:41.460
including those meant to scam people out of money or personal information.
00:25:45.460
Example products that claim to boost Facebook likes.
00:25:48.460
These types of practices don't comply with our advertising policies.
00:25:54.460
You're not selling, you know, you're not a Nigerian prince asking people for their social insurance numbers.
00:26:02.460
And I think your book, in fact, I'm pretty sure it became a bestseller on Amazon.ca.
00:26:07.460
They're calling your book or your ideas, I'm not sure which, a scam.
00:26:14.460
I mean, it's like the guys at Facebook have never read books before, right?
00:26:19.460
I mean, maybe they're just busy tweeting at each other or in Davos or something.
00:26:24.460
I mean, it's incredible to me that, again, this is a book where it took eight years to get the victim call done.
00:26:33.460
It's been reviewed, like I said, in some major newspapers, excerpted in the United States even.
00:26:37.460
I said an excerpt the other day from Australia on a website.
00:26:43.460
And I'm very careful, again, to point out that people, you know, sometimes end up as being victims.
00:26:51.460
But for Facebook, I mean, maybe it started with an algorithm, but I have appealed this now two times.
00:26:56.460
Well, there must be a human being somewhere in Silicon Valley or wherever, you know, Facebook hires its editors from that must have looked at the site by now, my own website, looked at the victim cult book and the reviews that I sent them and said, this is hardly, you're right, not only a Nigerian prince, not only am I not a Nigerian prince promoting some Ponzi scheme or attempt to get your bank account information.
00:27:23.460
I mean, it went up the charts when we talked in November.
00:27:25.460
So there's obviously there is obvious interest in the victim cult.
00:27:35.460
You know, it's a local bookstores across the country.
00:27:42.460
As of this morning, I'm looking at the four ads that I created at Facebook's request.
00:27:53.460
We've got those four ads on the screen right now.
00:27:56.460
And then there's that John A. McDonald version.
00:27:59.460
Now, I think I know the answer, but I'll ask anyways.
00:28:03.460
You have had no direct contact with any human at Facebook.
00:28:07.460
You've only been filling out automated forms, like a basic appeal form, right?
00:28:13.460
And automated responses, I think, copy and paste, perhaps.
00:28:16.460
If there is a real human being behind them, it's hard to tell.
00:28:20.460
My aunt, who lives in another part of the country, you know, relatives like to promote
00:28:24.460
your, you know, your books and what you do, of course, right?
00:28:26.460
And we all have proud parents, proud aunts, all that kind of stuff.
00:28:29.460
Well, my aunt said when she forwarded one of these excerpts a couple of weeks ago
00:28:34.460
on which these ads are based, she received a warning from Facebook about forwarding this
00:28:40.460
I think it might've been a John A. McDonald one.
00:28:42.460
So when you have an intelligent conversation about Canada's first prime minister, John
00:28:47.460
A. McDonald, and perhaps that maybe some of the anti-Western civilization folks are overdoing
00:28:54.460
You get a warning from Facebook if you're my relative that you shouldn't promote this
00:29:03.460
I'm not asking for it to be thumped on by government.
00:29:06.460
What I'm asking for is a business, Facebook, which seeks me out and wants my advertising
00:29:13.460
dollars, not then turn around and waste my time by saying, maybe take a look at this ad
00:29:21.460
Maybe it's not working for you, Facebook, but it seems to be working for a lot of people
00:29:24.460
buying it off Amazon and their local bookstores.
00:29:27.460
Well, I, you know, when you said it's a private company, that's the sound of the libertarian,
00:29:36.460
And I think I was such a person until even four years ago.
00:29:42.460
But after Donald Trump won the 2016 election, after Brexit had won short months before that,
00:29:50.460
Brexit sort of sneaked through and then Trump made all of Silicon Valley and said,
00:29:55.460
And if you've watched, I don't know, the Google town hall the week after the election where
00:30:01.460
senior executives were literally crying, where they said, we can't let this happen again.
00:30:06.460
That's when the great censorship began, the great demonetization of conservative sites
00:30:15.460
They say they're against disinformation and foreign meddling.
00:30:20.460
That's a cover for the fact that they are the ones disinforming and meddling.
00:30:26.460
Facebook, which is a company based in California, is censoring Canadian political commentary,
00:30:36.460
And when you have 2 billion of the world's 7 billion people on Facebook,
00:30:41.460
you now have a private company owning the public square.
00:30:47.460
And simply saying, well, if you don't like the way the policeman is being unfair in this
00:30:56.460
I don't think those libertarian arguments work anymore when the company town becomes a
00:31:12.460
No one in their right mind can or should censor others content.
00:31:16.460
When we're talking about debates over words, over meanings, over civilizations, we're not
00:31:20.460
talking about a call to action, a call to violence in my book or most books.
00:31:25.460
I mean, you're talking about legitimate debates, never mind anybody's opinion of them
00:31:30.460
So Facebook's problem is a problem with modern progressivism is that it's actually not liberal.
00:31:36.460
And by that, I mean, they should go back and read John Stuart Mill in addition to reading
00:31:41.460
They should go back and read John Stuart Mill on Liberty because no one can be an expert
00:31:46.460
You can't possibly parse policy or idea debates if you're a 21 year old kid sitting in Silicon
00:31:51.460
Valley as an editor or wherever you've been assigned by Facebook to edit from.
00:31:55.460
You can't possibly negotiate these debates between billions of people, many of whom are
00:32:01.460
just as smart or smarter than you if you're sitting at Facebook trying to figure out
00:32:06.460
So the best thing to do is to go back and read John Stuart Mill and actually figure out
00:32:11.460
that, listen, if you actually want to get the best ideas out there, if you actually want
00:32:15.460
good societies, you know, civilized societies, what you need to do is to let people debate
00:32:24.460
But the best thing to do is to get them out there in the public square.
00:32:27.460
The moment you start, even as a company, censoring others, and you're right, there's 2 billion
00:32:34.460
The moment you as Facebook begin censoring, not like radical calls to violence, but I
00:32:39.460
mean idea debates, whether it's me or Jordan Peterson or someone else, the moment you do
00:32:46.460
Because then you're going to get people go underground with some wacky ideas and there's
00:32:52.460
And they're going to go underground and then you're going to get smacked one day with an
00:32:56.460
election or a result or an event that you don't like.
00:32:58.460
The best way to combat pernicious ideas, and there are lots of them, and I could combat some
00:33:03.460
of them in the victim cult, is to actually let these debates go on.
00:33:06.460
Again, I'm not talking about, you know, allowing people to post videos, you know, inciting people
00:33:18.460
Why have East Asians in the United States and Canada succeeded despite past discrimination
00:33:26.460
But apparently Facebook is, you know, run by, I don't know, content editors that don't
00:33:31.460
get the value of actually having good liberal debates.
00:33:36.460
Well, you're making the moral points and you're talking about the long-term cultural benefits
00:33:42.460
Those things you talk about, like incitement to violence, they already exist as crimes no
00:33:52.460
I've been focused on this censorship issue pretty solidly for two years.
00:33:58.460
Mark, there's something in the States called the Communications Decency Act, and Section 230
00:34:03.460
of it grants immunity to companies like Facebook, Google, if they're simply a neutral platform,
00:34:11.460
sort of like a bulletin board in the public square that anyone can tack their message on.
00:34:16.460
If someone puts a illegal message on a bulletin board, you don't sue the bulletin board company
00:34:22.460
that someone tacked something onto if they're neutral, right?
00:34:26.460
It would be like suing a pay phone if someone made a death threat on the pay phone.
00:34:31.460
Well, the pay phone company's not listening to every call.
00:34:36.460
But when these companies start changing from neutral platforms where everyone is allowed
00:34:43.460
to talk other than pure obscenity, threats, et cetera, the things covered by the Communications
00:34:51.460
Decency Act, when they start censoring and editing, in my mind, they should lose their
00:35:00.460
And if they want to truly be editors of the entire world, let them be legally liable for
00:35:09.460
I don't know if you've looked that deeply into censorship on these platforms, but I am far
00:35:15.460
more afraid, Mark, of anonymous censors who don't even give you the courtesy of talking
00:35:22.460
At least when I went before the Human Rights Commission a dozen years ago, they gave me
00:35:40.460
Well, and the appeals, again, seem to be lost in some algorithmic, you know, maze of bureaucratic,
00:35:48.460
you know, private messages that are copied and pasted, perhaps.
00:35:52.460
So it's, look, I mean, you're the expert in the legal issues here, and these would be
00:35:59.460
I mean, I'm loathe to tell a private corporation what it wants to do.
00:36:03.460
But I mean, look, maybe an analogous example is going back to the 1980s, where AT&T in the
00:36:08.460
United States had to be broken up, precisely because it had such a natural monopoly of
00:36:14.460
I don't claim to be an expert in natural monopolies in the public square these days.
00:36:20.460
I do think, I do wonder if there is a problem, though, with a corporation that has 2 billion
00:36:25.460
people, run by people out of Silicon Valley, God bless them, but, you know, that don't seem
00:36:35.460
They cannot adjudicate between debates in the public square.
00:36:40.460
Well, listen, I, when I saw that this happened to you, I was most alarmed, because I'm used
00:36:47.460
to this happening to people like Tommy Robinson, and myself, and our company here at The Rebel.
00:36:52.460
But I regard you as one standard deviation more calm, one standard deviation more philosophical,
00:37:01.460
So if they're coming for Mark Milkey, and this is a form of a compliment, by the way.
00:37:08.460
If they're coming for you, the dam has been broken.
00:37:12.460
I think that we are not quite the first line, but we're the first line of defense.
00:37:17.460
If they're coming for Mark Milkey, we're already at the second, third ditch already.
00:37:24.460
And the crazy thing is, there's nothing you can do, other than maybe bust up the cartels
00:37:35.460
Let's at least do something positive out of this.
00:37:44.460
You can find the book all across the internet and in your local bookstores.
00:37:48.460
I recommend people go to Amazon.ca, and the reason for that is that helps your bestseller rankings.
00:37:55.460
So folks, if you type in The Victim Cult, it'll pop up there.
00:38:01.460
You can add Mark Milkey, and you'll find it very quickly.
00:38:10.460
Buy it for the book itself, but buy it to defy Facebook's censors.
00:38:15.460
Do that at Amazon.ca, so at least Mark gets the bestseller rankings.
00:38:20.460
Do you think this was actually just a glitch in the algorithm,
00:38:25.460
or do you think this is what we're going to see a lot more of going ahead?
00:38:29.460
I think who designed the algorithm is the problem,
00:38:32.460
and Facebook needs to seriously consider a backing off from attempts to downgrade views
00:38:42.460
How can you ban a book without even having read it?
00:38:45.460
So I think the core problem is just the thinking, perhaps, in Silicon Valley these days.
00:38:51.460
Look, I've seen you fight back against this nonsense,
00:38:54.460
and I think that one of the things I recommend in The Victim Cult is
00:38:57.460
if you think you've been unfairly treated, don't think like a victim.
00:39:04.460
Well, listen, I'm so glad to have you on the show.
00:39:14.460
But as you saw at the top of the clip with that Danish Facebook executive saying,
00:39:22.460
I mean, it's right out of the book 1984, secret blacklists.
00:39:44.460
You know, one of the things I try and keep in mind as a journalist and for the journalists
00:39:48.460
we have is try not to talk about yourself too much.
00:39:51.460
I mean, I know my show is very opinion oriented, so I do a lot of I think and I believe.
00:39:57.460
But for the news stuff, no one cares about the journalist.
00:40:00.460
I mean, journalists are self-centered by nature.
00:40:03.460
I suppose you're telling people about the world.
00:40:05.460
You feel like you have some high place, some celebrity.
00:40:08.460
But I think that the public doesn't care as much.
00:40:13.460
So I'm reluctant to go heavy duty on us, us, us.
00:40:17.460
But the fact that this censorship is coming for the media first makes it a large theme for the rebel.
00:40:24.460
I mean, we have so many fights when cops try and censor us, when Facebook or YouTube or Twitter tries to censor us, when we're deplatformed.
00:40:34.460
And none of that is why I started Rebel News five years ago.
00:40:38.460
I started Rebel News and we're coming up on our fifth anniversary next month.
00:40:41.460
None of that is, you know, why we got into this business.
00:40:50.460
But that is actually becoming a broader public policy problem.
00:40:54.460
Censorship and that clip I showed you from Facebook is the most terrifying.
00:40:59.460
Well, hey, before I go, can I show you a short ad I made for the Rebel News cruise?
00:41:18.460
We're leaving July 4th, 2020, sailing up the Inside Passage.
00:41:34.460
That's where the glaciers calve off into the water and become icebergs.
00:41:43.460
It's very interesting, very different than a Caribbean cruise.
00:41:46.460
But here's what makes it the Rebel News Cruise.
00:42:06.460
By the way, this will be just a week after the Conservative Party chooses its Conservative leaders.
00:42:11.460
So I know Manny will have a lot to say about that.
00:42:17.460
But remember, we're going to be at sea for two full days out of the seven.
00:42:22.460
So on those days at sea when there's not that much to do, we will have panel discussions with the talent I've just outlined.
00:42:29.460
Q&A sessions, you can really mix it up with our people on a whole range of issues.
00:42:37.460
So on each night, you'll rotate to a different table and you can meet a different Rebel personality.
00:42:46.460
I don't know if you know, but we've had Rebel cruises in the past.
00:42:53.460
Now, this will be a little bit different climatically, but it'll be just as much fun.
00:43:01.460
And because we're sailing out of Vancouver, it's easier and more affordable to get to.
00:43:11.460
There's fancy big suites if you want or more affordable smaller cabins.
00:43:17.460
But really, you're not going to be spending that much time in your cabin.
00:43:22.460
Of course, all meals and things like that are included.
00:43:30.460
In my life at Sun News at the Western Standard before that and here at Rebel,
00:43:37.460
And I have to say that they're some of the fondest memories I have because just for a week, I turn off the cell phone and I can spend time with our people without being rushed.
00:43:58.460
It's that low rush, low stress, hanging out, making friends.
00:44:04.460
I have to say these cruises are the best way to meet your fellow Rebel viewers and your favorite Rebels on TV.
00:44:13.460
So find out more and sign up quickly because the cruise is coming up in July.
00:44:33.460
On behalf of all of us here at Rebel World Headquarters, good night and keep fighting for freedom.