Donald Trump has been charged with 37 counts, ranging from obstruction of justice to mishandling classified documents, and could face decades in prison if found guilty. Trump's lawyers are fighting back, saying he is innocent and the charges are politically motivated. But is this case really about politics, or is it about the facts and the law? On today's show, Alex Blumberg breaks down the indictment and argues that Trump should not be charged based on the "Comey standard" that was established in order to exonerate Hillary Clinton of all the same charges. He also argues that a fair trial should be held in a court with a presumption of innocence, not a trial by jury, and that the case should be decided by a jury, not by a grand jury. And he argues that the real question is not whether or not Trump should be charged, but whether he should go to jail. Today's episode is a must-listen to find out who's innocent and who's guilty. If you don't believe it, then you're in for a long and painful ride. listen to today's episode of The O.J. Simpson vs. O'Brien Show! Subscribe to our new podcast, The OJ Show! Subscribe on iTunes and leave us a rating and review this episode on Apple Podcasts! Subscribe on Apple podcasts! Learn more about your ad choices. Rate, review and review our new ad choices! Rate/subscribe policies. We'll be looking out for your comments and review in the next episode of the OJ show! Thank you for listening to our newest episode of "The OJG Show! and we'll be giving out 5 new episodes in next week's "Best of the week, "Good Morning America" and "The Best of the Week" in the podcast "Good Gellers" on Tuesday, "The Good Morning America Podcasts" and "Good Luck, Good Luck Out There" Subscribe on Podchaser and "Best Fiend" Subscribe and Subscribe to "Outro Music: "Your Reviewed Song: "Good Vibes" on iTunes! " Subscribe & Subscribe to Our Social Media: by "Outtro Music: " " by "Goodbye" by "Mr. John Rocha, " " " & "Good Rellows" by " Good Morning Outtro: "Solo, " by " by
00:00:00.000Well, this week, Donald Trump is supposed to show up in court in Miami for his actual arraignment on 37 charges, ranging from obstruction of justice to mishandling of classified documents.
00:00:11.000We need to go through the actual indictment.
00:00:12.000The actual indictment, the text of the indictment dropped late on Friday afternoon.
00:00:16.000And the indictment is not good for President Trump.
00:00:29.000Trump also, if the allegations in the indictment are correct, is going to have a tough time rebutting charges of obstruction of justice.
00:00:36.000The indictment is really, really detailed.
00:00:38.000Now, again, Hillary Clinton did pretty much the same thing and got away with it.
00:00:42.000And this is why I suggested the last week two things can be true at once.
00:00:46.000Trump's behavior in this matter has been abysmal.
00:00:49.000And two, he should not be prosecuted based on the Comey standard, which was established in order to exonerate Hillary Clinton.
00:00:54.000Here's the thing that the American people are not going to be able to sustain.
00:00:57.000A Department of Justice, where when a Democrat is in power, a Republican gets prosecuted.
00:01:01.000And when Republicans are in power, a Democrat does not get prosecuted and nobody gets prosecuted.
00:01:06.000Or alternatively, If the Republican is in power and Democrats get prosecuted and Democrats who are in power Republicans get prosecuted, the stakes are wildly raised for every single election because you now know that if the opposition party is in power, you're in actual danger of going to jail.
00:01:19.000And this is a really scary thing for the vast majority of Americans.
00:01:22.000It's banana republic type stuff where Hillary Clinton gets exonerated by James Comey.
00:01:26.000And then five minutes later, Donald Trump is being hit with the exact same indictment.
00:01:31.000But this time, he may go to jail for literally decades for pretty much the same activity in which Hillary Clinton engaged.
00:01:36.000Now, if you're Jack Smith and you're the special counsel who's brought in to investigate this case, that really is not a question for you.
00:01:43.000A lot of people are upset with Jack Smith for bringing in the indictment.
00:01:50.000It is his job to look into whether a crime was committed.
00:01:52.000And if you look at the indictment, what he thinks he has established, It's very hard to say that he should be not bringing an indictment against Trump, but Merrick Garland is the sitting Attorney General of the United States, and Joe Biden is the sitting President of the United States, and they're the ones who are going to have to decide whether the indictment is actually brought or not.
00:02:08.000The Attorney General of the United States gets a recommendation from the Special Counsel, and then it's his DOJ that decides whether to go forward with the case, and that does involve factoring in other questions, like what is the political ramification of prosecuting the former President of the United States and the current frontrunner for the opposition party?
00:02:24.000That is a question for a political appointee like Merrick Garland.
00:02:29.000It's not really a question for Jack Smith.
00:02:31.000So again, many things can be true at once.
00:02:32.000In order to understand the case itself, because the temptation is going to be on both sides for Democrats to say Trump should go to jail and Hillary shouldn't have gone to jail.
00:02:41.000There was no distinct, there was a distinction, a massive distinction.
00:02:48.000And the temptation on the right is going to be to say that Trump did nothing wrong here, that everything was perfectly on the up and up, that the indictment itself is a sham, and that's not true either.
00:02:56.000The things that are true are one, if you read the indictment, and if they prove what is in the indictment, Trump's behavior is egregious and probably violates the criminal law.
00:03:04.000And two, this case should not be brought specifically because you cannot have the appearance from the DOJ.
00:03:10.000That they will exonerate any Democrat, but they will convict any Republican.
00:03:26.000I'm going to read you large chunks of it so that you actually know what Trump is being charged with and what he allegedly did and what they have evidence of.
00:03:31.000Now, again, these are all allegations.
00:03:33.000They're going to have to prove all of this in court beyond a reasonable doubt.
00:03:35.000Trump has, just like every other criminal defendant, a presumption of innocent until proven guilty.
00:03:40.000I will say, however, that the indictment in this particular case is significantly more damning than the indictment in the Manhattan DA case, Alvin Bragg's ridiculous case up in New York.
00:03:48.000That case where Alvin Bragg is trying to claim that Donald Trump violated campaign finance law on the federal level and therefore it can be laundered into a state law violation that amounts to a felony, even though it's really a misdemeanor in the state of New York.
00:03:59.000And anyways, it's beyond the statute of limitations.
00:04:01.000That whole case is ridiculous on its face.
00:04:04.000That is not the case with this particular indictment.
00:04:07.000Again, it's perfectly within bounds to say Hillary Clinton did the same thing.
00:04:10.000There's no reason she shouldn't be in jail.
00:04:12.000What you cannot say is that Donald Trump did nothing wrong here because that is not true if the indictment has any level of credibility to it at all.
00:04:18.000Okay, so Trump is supposed to show up on Tuesday in court along with his alleged co-conspirator, Walt Nauta, who is an aide who is kind of moving boxes around for him.
00:04:30.000And the Trump team is creating a defense.
00:04:33.000Its defense is largely rooted in a non-legal defense, right?
00:04:36.000It's a political defense, which again, is going to be the double standard, which is true.
00:05:01.000For example, there's a major big tech service right now that is actively attempting to kick off other Daily Wire hosts for the great crime of speaking truth on matters of transgenderism.
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00:05:17.000The problem with big tech is not only do they attempt to censor you, they track what you do online, they make money off of it, they use your data, and then they sell it to advertisers.
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00:05:53.000Okay, so let's begin with the documents that actively were in Trump's possession.
00:05:58.000So according to this indictment, which again was released late afternoon on Friday, So in other words, the original sort of argument that Trump was making, which is that it was basically a signed letter from Kim Jong-un that appears not to be true if the indictment is correct.
00:06:09.000States and foreign countries, United States nuclear programs, potential vulnerabilities
00:06:13.000of the United States and its allies to military attack and plans for possible retaliation
00:06:43.000And it turns out that one of the key witnesses in this particular case is actually Trump's lawyer.
00:06:47.000I've said before, and as we'll soon go through in the indictment, the worst job in America is being Donald Trump's lawyer.
00:06:52.000The reason that is the worst job in America is because he frequently will tell you a thing, and then he will go out and he will absolutely contradict that thing.
00:07:00.000He will do everything that you as a lawyer tell your client not to do.
00:07:04.000The first rule of lawyering is you tell your client to shut his mouth.
00:07:07.000Donald Trump has never done that, not once, which makes it very difficult to be his lawyer.
00:07:10.000Number two, if you are a lawyer, one of the first things that you also tell your client is if you have any critical communication to make, do not make it in writing.
00:07:17.000Because if you make it in writing, it will be now discoverable.
00:07:20.000Discoverable means that the other side, prosecution, they can see all that sort of stuff.
00:07:24.000So if you have to do something bad, Make sure that you pick up the phone and you call somebody.
00:07:28.000Here I am giving criminal defense advice, but here is the reality.
00:07:30.000If you're going to do something bad, don't text that you're about to kill your neighbor.
00:07:43.000Now, better thing is to not do the criminal thing at all, but...
00:07:46.000Just as a lawyer, again, this is legal advice.
00:07:48.000You don't want your client to be talking and you don't want your client to be texting.
00:07:52.000Donald Trump does a lot of both of those things.
00:07:53.000And it turns out in this case that one of his biggest obstacles is that he put his own lawyers directly in the line of legal fire, which actually flipped some of his own lawyers.
00:08:01.000So here is the allegation of fact in the indictment.
00:08:03.000And we are starting on page 10 of the indictment quote.
00:08:06.000In January 2021, as he was preparing to leave the White House, Trump and his White House staff, including And now again, that's totally normal.
00:08:12.000of his aides, packed items, including some of Trump's boxes.
00:08:14.000Trump was personally involved in this process.
00:08:16.000Trump caused his boxes containing hundreds of classified documents to be
00:08:19.000transported from the White House to the Mar-a-Lago club.
00:08:24.000People leave office, they bring with them a bunch of boxes.
00:08:26.000From January through March 15th, 2021, some of those boxes were stored in the
00:08:30.000Mar-a-Lago White and Gold Ballroom, in which events and gatherings took place.
00:08:33.000Trump's boxes were, for a time, stacked on the ballroom stage, as depicted in the photograph below.
00:08:38.000So somebody took a picture of the fact that he had kept all of these documents, including classified documents, on a giant stage in the ballroom.
00:08:46.000In March 2021, Naoda and others moved some of Trump's boxes from the White and Gold Ballroom to the Business Center at the Mar-a-Lago Club.
00:08:52.000On April 5, 2021, an employee of Trump's office texted another employee of that office to ask whether Trump's boxes could be moved out of the Business Center to make room for staff to use it as an office.
00:09:01.000The second employee responded, quote, Whoa, OK, so POTUS specifically asked Walt for those boxes to be in the business center because they are his papers.
00:09:08.000Later that day, they exchanged text messages again.
00:09:10.000Trump employee two said we can definitely make it work if we move his papers into the lake room.
00:09:14.000And the first employee said there's still a little room in the shower where his other stuff is.
00:09:21.000Or does he want everything in there on property?
00:09:24.000And the second employee said, yes, anything that's not the beautiful mind paper boxes can definitely go to storage.
00:09:29.000Want to take a look at the space and start moving tomorrow at a.m.
00:09:32.000After that text exchange between Trump employee one and Trump employee two in April 2021, some of Trump's boxes were moved from the business center to a bathroom.
00:09:39.000You can see the picture right here of all of these boxes stored up in the bathroom and into the shower at the Mar-a-Lago Club Lake Room, as depicted in that photograph.
00:09:48.000Now, so far, this is nothing different than anything that Joe Biden has done.
00:09:51.000So far, what you're talking about is Joe Biden taking a bunch of boxes and shoving it in his garage next to his Corvette.
00:09:56.000Or putting it at the Biden Center for Chinese Grift in Washington, D.C., or any of the rest of the stuff.
00:10:04.000The fact of the matter is that we now have multiple public officials who have taken classified documents and put them in places they ought not be, including, apparently, in the bathroom over here.
00:10:15.000In May 2021, Trump directed that a storage room on the ground floor of the Mar-a-Lago Club be cleaned out so it could be used to store his boxes.
00:10:21.000The hallway leading to that storage room could be reached from multiple outside entrances, including one accessible from the Mar-a-Lago Club pool patio through a doorway that was often kept open.
00:10:29.000The storage room was also near the liquor supply closet, linen room, lock shop, and various other rooms.
00:10:33.000And then all the boxes in June were moved to the storage room.
00:10:37.000Now, again, you can see all these boxes lined up in the storage room.
00:10:40.000By December, Nowda found several of Trump's boxes fallen and their contents spilled onto the floor of the storage room, including a document marked secret relative to U.S.
00:10:48.000FVEY, which denoted the information in the document was releasable only to the Five Eyes Intelligence Alliance, consisting of Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United States, and the United States, the United Kingdom, and the United States.
00:10:58.000Trump Nowda texted one of Trump's employees, quote, I opened the door and found this.
00:11:02.000Trump employee two said, oh no, oh no, and I'm sorry, POTUS had my phone.
00:11:05.000One of the photographs now detected to Trump employee two is depicted with the visible classified information redacted.
00:11:11.000So a bunch of this stuff had spilled onto the floor.
00:11:13.000Now again, this is all clumsy and bad handling of classified information, and it is no different than Joe Biden keeping this next to his Corvette in his garage.
00:11:19.000So they are bringing charges on this particular stuff, but this is not the distinction between what Trump did in terms of bringing home documents and what happened next.
00:11:28.000In May 2021, Trump caused some of his boxes to be brought to his summer residence at the Bedminster Club.
00:11:32.000Like the Mar-a-Lago Club, after Trump's presidency, the Bedminster Club was not an authorized location for storage, possession, review, display, or discussion of classified documents, according to the indictment.
00:11:40.000On July 21, 2021, when he was no longer president, Trump gave an interview in his office at the Bedminster Club to a writer and publisher in connection with a forthcoming book.
00:11:48.000Two members of Trump's staff also attended that interview, which was recorded with Trump's knowledge and consent.
00:11:53.000Okay, so this is not a secret recording.
00:11:55.000Trump knew that he was being recorded.
00:11:57.000Before the interview, the media had published reports that at the end of Trump's term as president, a senior military official, this would be Mark Milley, purportedly feared that Trump might order an attack on country A, presumably Iran, and the senior military official advised Trump against doing so.
00:12:09.000Upon greeting the writer, publisher, and two staff members, Trump stated, look what I found.
00:13:16.000The reason that is not great, Bob, is because that is Donald Trump on tape acknowledging that he now has classified information in his possession, and he's revealing it to a non-classified source, and he is saying, I could have declassified it, but I did not declassify it.
00:13:27.000So this blows two of Trump's defenses out of the water if this tape is accurate.
00:13:30.000Okay, defense number one that Trump would theoretically use is, I didn't know that this was classified material.
00:13:35.000Now you're calling it classified, but I didn't really know, right?
00:13:37.000Ignorance is in fact a defense under the law if you are using the intent standard.
00:13:42.000If the idea is that you have intent to hide classified material, you have intent to mishandle classified material, you have to know that it's classified material in order for you to have the proper intent to hide it.
00:13:51.000If I take this piece of paper right here on my desk and I just hide it, that's not a crime.
00:13:55.000If it turns out that it's classified, And I didn't know it was classified.
00:14:28.000See, as president, I could have declassified it.
00:14:30.000Now I can't, you know, but this is still a secret.
00:14:35.000I mean, at that point, you are admitting in full on tape, apparently.
00:14:40.000On tape, you're admitting that you had the power to declassify and you did not, which means it is not declassified and you know it is classified.
00:14:49.000We'll continue with the indictment in just one second.
00:14:51.000Again, I think it's important for everybody to have a clear picture of what's in the indictment so that they have a clear picture of the facts on the ground in this particular case.
00:14:58.000And then we'll get to the political ramifications and the fact that, again, there is a DOJ double standard here.
00:15:02.000And the DOJ double... Let's put it this way.
00:15:04.000If Hillary Clinton had been prosecuted by James Comey, In summer of 2016.
00:15:08.000If that had happened, it would be very difficult for anyone to argue that Trump should not be prosecuted on these grounds.
00:15:12.000Because Hillary was not prosecuted on very similar grounds, it is fully within the realm of rationality to say the DOJ should not be prosecuting the chief political opposition to the current president of the United States on these grounds.
00:15:26.000We'll get to more on this in a second.
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00:16:39.000In August or September of 2021, says the indictment, when he was no longer president, Trump met in his office at the Betminster Club with a representative of his PAC.
00:16:47.000During the meeting, Trump commented that an ongoing military operation in country B was not going well.
00:16:51.000Trump showed PAC representative a classified map of country B and told the PAC representative he should not be showing the map to the PAC representative and to not get too close.
00:16:58.000The PAC representative did not have security clearance or any need to know classified information about the military operation.
00:17:03.000So he started showing classified maps around to people, again, who were not actually, you know, under classification standards.
00:17:09.000On February 16, 2017, four years before Trump's disclosures of classified information, Trump said at a press conference, quote, the first thing I thought of when I heard about this is how does the press get this information that's classified?
00:17:45.000Here, I need you to write this in your book.
00:17:48.000Right, that's pretty obvious mishandling of classified information.
00:17:51.000Now, again, that is still, even that, even that, as egregious as it is, is within the boundaries of a wide variety of public officials who leak classified information to the press.
00:18:39.000When it comes to the obstruction, this is this.
00:18:41.000Listen, all of this is self inflicted wounds by President Trump.
00:18:44.000You know that the bad guys are out to get you.
00:18:45.000You know there are people who want to see you in jail.
00:18:48.000You know they spend all day long coming up with fake criminal conduct in New York, but there are people out there who just want you to commit a crime and they're begging you to commit a crime.
00:18:57.000If you're a smart person and you do the smart thing, what you do is you make sure you don't.
00:19:07.000Because I don't want the IRS coming after me under Joe Biden.
00:19:10.000But Donald Trump, because presumably he thinks that he has, you know, kind of full-scale immunity, he acts in ways that are very foolish.
00:19:16.000And that is particularly true when it comes to this obstruction stuff.
00:19:19.000So now we get into the obstruction area.
00:19:20.000And this is different materially than what we've seen from other people, except for Hillary Clinton.
00:19:25.000Here is what the indictment says, quote, beginning in May 2021, the National Archives and Records
00:19:29.000Administration, which was responsible for archiving presidential records, repeatedly demanded that
00:19:33.000Trump turn over presidential records he had kept after his presidency. On multiple occasions,
00:19:37.000beginning in June, NARA warned Trump through his representative that if he did not comply,
00:19:41.000it would refer the matter of the missing records to the DOJ.
00:19:43.000Between November 2021 and January 2022, NAUTA and another Trump employee brought boxes from the
00:19:48.000storage room to Trump's residence for Trump's review.
00:19:51.000On November 12, 2021, Trump employee 2 provided Trump a photograph of the boxes in the storage room by taping it to one of the boxes Trump employee 2 had placed in Trump's residence.
00:20:00.000Trump employee 2 provided Trump the photograph so Trump could see how many boxes were in the storage room.
00:20:04.000On November 17th, 2021, NowTo texted Trump employee 2 about the photograph, saying, quote, he mentioned about a picture of the boxes.
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00:21:44.000Trump employees are bringing boxes up for Trump to go through after the National Archives has requested months ago that he hands over all of the classified documents.
00:21:52.000On December 29th, 2021, a Trump employee, too, texted a Trump representative who was in contact with the National Archives.
00:21:59.000Box answer will be wrenched out of him today, promise.
00:22:01.000The next day, Trump representative 1 replied in two successive text messages.
00:22:12.000On January 13th, 2022, Nata texted Trump employee 2 about Trump's tracking of boxes, saying, quote, he's tracking the boxes and more to follow today on whether he wants to go through more today or tomorrow.
00:22:21.000And this Trump employee replied, thank you.
00:22:23.000Again, this is Trump employee two who's basically trying to work with the National Archives.
00:22:26.000Now to send Trump employee two four successive text messages.
00:22:29.000Quote, one thing he asked was for new covers for the boxes for Monday.
00:22:32.000Can we get new box covers before giving them on Monday?
00:22:38.000So they replaced the covers of the boxes.
00:22:40.000On January 17, 2022, Trump employee 2 and Nowda gathered 15 boxes from Trump's residence, loaded the boxes in Nowda's car, and took them to a commercial truck for delivery to the National Archives.
00:22:49.000When interviewed by the FBI in May 2022 regarding the location and movement of those boxes, Nowda then made false and misleading statements as set forth in count 38 of the indictment, including falsely stating he was not aware of Trump's boxes being brought to Trump's residence, falsely stating he did not know how the boxes that he and Trump brought from Trump's residence to the commercial truck for delivery had gotten to the residence, So, when the 15 boxes Trump had provided reached NARA in January 2022, NARA reviewed the contents and determined 14 of the boxes contained documents with classification markings.
00:23:23.000Specifically, the boxes contained 197 documents with classification markings, of which 98 were marked secret, 30 were marked top secret, and the remainder were marked confidential.
00:23:32.000Okay, and then we get into the moving around of the boxes and the concealment of the boxes.
00:23:37.000Okay, so May 23rd, 2022, Trump met with his attorneys at Mar-a-Lago to discuss the response to the National Archives subpoena.
00:23:44.000Trump Attorney 1 and Trump Attorney 2 told Trump they needed to search for documents that would be responsive to the subpoena and then provide a certification that they had complied, that they'd handed over all the documents.
00:23:53.000Trump then said, quote, I don't want anybody looking.
00:23:55.000I don't want anybody looking through my boxes.
00:24:14.000He said that it was him, that he was the one who basically deleted all of her emails, the 30,000 emails, because they basically dealt with her scheduling and her going to the gym and having beauty appointments.
00:24:23.000And he said she didn't get in any trouble because he said he was the one who deleted them.
00:24:26.000So this is Trump saying to his attorneys.
00:24:29.000Effectively speaking, I want you to destroy the documents and then claim that you destroyed the documents by accident.
00:24:34.000And therefore, I will be off the hook if the documents just disappear.
00:24:37.000Trump related the story more than once that day.
00:24:39.000So again, what you have here again, and this is just bad behavior by Trump, not particularly smart behavior by Trump.
00:24:44.000Is Trump saying, I know what Hillary Clinton did was criminal and she got off because her lawyers were clever.
00:24:49.000What if you are by clever lawyers, right?
00:24:51.000On May 23rd, Trump also confirmed his understanding with Trump attorney that Trump attorney would return to Mar-a-Lago to search for any documents with classification markings.
00:24:58.000The Trump attorney made it clear to Trump that he would conduct a search for responsive documents by looking through the boxes.
00:25:03.000Trump indicated he wanted to be present and that Trump would change his summer plans to do so.
00:25:07.000After meeting with his attorneys, Trump delayed his departure from Mar-a-Lago.
00:25:11.000And then, apparently, between that meeting with his attorneys and when the attorneys were supposed to return to review the boxes, that is when Nauda removed, at Trump's direction, a total of 64 boxes from the storage room and brought them to Trump's residence.
00:25:24.000Now, what that means is that Trump was effectively hiding this material from his own attorneys.
00:25:27.000Again, I say it's a bad job to be Trump's attorney.
00:25:30.000Because the attorney said, we want to look through the boxes so that when we attest that you have turned over all the material, we can say we've seen all the material and you turned over all the classified stuff.
00:25:38.000That's essentially what his attorneys want to do.
00:25:40.000Trump says, great, come back in a week.
00:25:43.000They come back in a week and Trump has now removed a bunch of those boxes and moved them elsewhere.
00:25:47.000So then when they go through the boxes and turn over everything, they attest that they've turned everything over.
00:25:51.000But Trump knows that's not true because he has removed the boxes.
00:25:54.000On June 1st, 2022, Trump spoke with his attorney by phone and asked whether the attorney was coming to Mar-a-Lago the next day and for exactly what purpose.
00:26:01.000The attorney said he was going to review the boxes.
00:26:03.000On June 2nd, the day Trump attorneys were supposed to review Trump's boxes, Trump spoke with Nauda for 24 seconds and then, later that day, Nauda, an employee of Mar-a-Lago, moved 30 boxes from the residence to the storage room.
00:26:15.000In sum, between May 23rd and June 2nd, before Trump's attorney reviewed Trump's boxes, Nowda moved 64 boxes from the storage room to Trump's residence and brought to the storage room only 30 boxes.
00:26:30.000This is where you get into the obstruction situation.
00:26:33.000Because the lawyers then said to the subpoena that they did a diligent search conducted of the boxes moved from the White House to Florida, that any and all responsive documents accompanied their certification, and according to the indictment, these statements were false.
00:26:45.000Because, among other reasons, Trump had directed now to remove boxes before Trump's attorney's June 2nd review.
00:26:52.000So, in other words, when they went back to the government, they said, we've turned over all the documents, Trump already knew that he retained all those documents, right?
00:26:58.000So that's where the obstruction charges are coming from.
00:27:02.000So the case that we have here is twofold.
00:27:05.000One is the mishandling of classified material.
00:27:10.000And that breaks down into he took classified material home and he stored it in his bathroom.
00:27:13.000Again, no different from Joe Biden in the garage.
00:27:14.000And then you have the Trump was waving around the documents and saying that they were classified in front of people who did not have classification clearance and he was admitting in those conversations that he had not actually declassified that material so he knew it was classified and he was showing it to other people.
00:27:28.000Now, again, bad looks very much like many government officials who end up leaking to the press and some of those people do get prosecuted.
00:27:35.000So as far as we are aware, we're not sure that Hillary Clinton actually took those classified materials and was showing them to people who did not have classification standards.
00:27:43.000Huma Abedin was her aide, so maybe she was emailing him, but it ended up on Anthony Weiner's computer, so you could speculate that maybe she was doing something similar.
00:27:56.000You go to your own attorneys, you have them testify to the government that they cleared all the documents, and then you hide more documents from your own attorneys.
00:28:12.000Hillary literally took a program and cleared her own computer of all the documents that were being searched for.
00:28:16.000And they were only found later when they ended up on Anthony Weiner's computer.
00:28:20.000So, this is why I say the double standard is very much in play here as a political argument, as a legal argument.
00:28:26.000And the question is whether that's going to make any difference.
00:28:30.000So, Bill Barr, who is Trump's former Attorney General and a person who actively launched the investigation into the origins of the Trump-Russia probe.
00:28:38.000He said that it was a bullcrap probe in the first place and launched an investigation into its origins.
00:28:42.000He's been very critical of Manhattan DA's prosecution.
00:28:45.000Bill Barr went on Fox News and he said like, look, I read the indictment and it's not great.
00:28:51.000What about this chief argument that comes up for the president's allies and his legal team that this should have been handled under the Presidential Records Act, not this Espionage Act charge and other federal statutes that were used here?
00:29:03.000Well, it started out under the Presidential Records Act and the archives trying to retrieve documents that Trump had no right to have.
00:29:12.000But it quickly became clear that what the government was really worried about were these classified and very sensitive documents.
00:29:18.000I was shocked by The degree of sensitivity of these documents and how many there were, frankly.
00:29:24.000I do think we have to wait and see what the defense says and what proves to be true.
00:29:29.000But I do think that even half what Andy McCarthy said, which is if even half of it is true, then he's toast.
00:29:36.000I mean, it's a it's a pretty it's a very detailed indictment and it's very, very damning.
00:29:42.000So again, we're not really sure what the defense is going to be at this point.
00:29:45.000I've just spelled out to you what's in the indictment.
00:29:47.000We haven't yet to hear from the defense.
00:29:48.000The defense may blow apart the prosecution's case.
00:29:58.000Well, Donald Trump responded to Bill Barr.
00:30:01.000He's not responding to the indictment in sort of specific fashion at this point, but he is responding to Bill Barr because the basic rule is that if you have ever worked for Donald Trump and then you cross Donald Trump, then you become an enemy, whether you're Kayleigh McEnany or whether you're Bill Barr.
00:30:12.000Here is Trump going after Bill Barr for those comments.
00:30:15.000This thing is a disgrace and virtually everybody other than a lowlife like Bill Barr, who I, as you know, I terminated because he was gutless.
00:30:23.000He wouldn't do what you're supposed to do.
00:30:25.000But everybody says this is a Disgraceful indictment.
00:30:30.000It was done for political reasons, but it was also done, I guess, to cover up the kind of a massive crime that's now being revealed by the Republicans in the House.
00:30:40.000It's incredible when you look at what happened, when you look at the kind of money that flows into the Biden family and to Joe Biden, by the way.
00:30:47.000OK, so as a political matter, what Trump is saying here is exactly right.
00:30:51.000I mean, the fact is that you don't see the DOJ going hard after Hunter Biden here.
00:30:55.000You didn't see the DOJ go hard after Hillary Clinton.
00:30:57.000The double standard is a political argument.
00:31:20.000But the defense team in flux, it remains unclear, according to the Wall Street Journal, exactly how Trump will confront the criminal charges.
00:31:24.000It will likely reprise a number of arguments his lawyers have made in their long legal battle to head off the prosecution in the first place.
00:31:30.000Even many big kind of legal Trump defenders, like Alan Dershowitz, have said the indictment against Trump is very strong here.
00:31:34.000The real question is going to be what the defense is and also, again, that political double standard.
00:31:39.000A defense lawyer with expertise in national security, Rob Kellner, said one of the big challenges Jack Smith faces is persuading every one of those 12 jurors it could be a criminal offense for Trump to share documents that a couple of years before when he was president he would have been free to share.
00:31:50.000But again, that's not really a legal defense as much as it is a political defense.
00:31:55.000One of the key figures who is going to be testifying here, presumably, is going to be Trump's lawyer, Evan Corcoran, who is the person who is cited in that document I was talking about as Trump attorney number one, the person who is going and telling the National Archives, I turned over all the documents.
00:32:06.000And then meanwhile, Trump was fibbing to him and moving the documents around behind the scenes.
00:32:10.000Corcoran, according to the Wall Street Journal, figures prominently in the government's case that Trump conspired to obstruct justice and caused a false statement to be made to federal authorities.
00:32:18.000Corcoran's compelled testimony, former lawyer Tim Parlatori and three others wrote, was clearly a suboptimal and constitutionally dubious substitute for a more complete search of the property under consent.
00:32:27.000Trump's lawyers could seek ahead of trial to challenge evidence from Corcoran.
00:32:31.000They could try to prevent Corcoran from testifying.
00:32:35.000Again, I'm not sure exactly how they would achieve that.
00:32:37.000Now, Trump does have one advantage in this case, presumably.
00:32:40.000It has been assigned by lottery to Judge Eileen Cannon, who's a Trump appointee, to the federal court in South Florida.
00:32:45.000Cannon is very controversial because she previously presided over a lawsuit that Trump brought in this case in which he got a special master appointed to go through the documents before the FBI was allowed to go through the documents.
00:32:56.000That was eventually overturned by, I believe, the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals.
00:32:59.000So she's going to be the judge in this particular case.
00:33:01.000The left is, of course, very upset about all of this, about that particular judge being appointed.
00:33:07.000When we get to Trump's response to all of this, in particular, in just one moment.
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00:35:47.000When the National Archives called up, he should have figured, listen, there's a bunch of people in the deep state who hate my guts and they're waiting for me to screw up on this.
00:35:54.000Why don't I just give them back the documents?
00:35:55.000What is so vital in the documents that he cannot give them back?
00:35:59.000That's the question people should be asking, especially going into Republican primaries.
00:36:02.000Is this the kind of judgment that you think is likely to be successful in waging an all-out battle on behalf of American values, especially inside the deep state?
00:36:11.000Is the best thing that you can do to walk directly into a trap created by your political and legal opponents?
00:36:39.000Trump also said that this has been great for his poll numbers, which it has been because the general rule is that when people feel that Trump is being victimized by the law enforcement apparatus, it's very good for his poll numbers inside the Republican Party.
00:36:49.000Now, is it good for his poll numbers in general?
00:36:52.000I mean, is it going to be great for him in a general election?
00:36:55.000Presumably no, especially because there's every possibility that if he picks, if he gets a jury that is not friendly to him, he could theoretically get jail time.
00:37:03.000So we could have the historic opportunity to vote for a person who is currently sitting in prison when we vote in 2024.
00:37:11.000And I'll be honest with you, on a sort of pure excitement level, my excitement for that would be really high.
00:37:17.000Again, do I think Trump should go to jail for this?
00:37:25.000I mean, if the major political candidate taking on the current incumbent of the United States was sitting in jail and we're voting for him and then he had to pardon himself, that would be fascinating.
00:37:35.000I mean, we are living in a weird alternative universe in which God's writing this season is very strange.
00:37:42.000It's a strange writing by God, this season of Trump.
00:37:44.000We're in like season six of Trump and the writing has gotten a little bit It's a little bit wild.
00:37:49.000We're close to jumping the shark in season six of Trump here.
00:37:52.000In any case, here was President Trump talking about the poll numbers.
00:37:57.000As far as the joke of an indictment, it's a horrible thing.
00:38:02.000It's a horrible thing for this country.
00:38:06.000I mean, the only good thing about it is it's driven my poll numbers way up.
00:38:31.000According to a new ABC Post Trump indictment poll, 61% say document charges are serious, including 38% of Republicans and 63% of independents.
00:38:39.000Again, don't worry about what Republicans think and what Democrats think.
00:38:44.000Over 6 in 10 independents think these are serious charges against Trump.
00:38:48.000And when you look at the number who believe that Trump should be charged in this particular case, what you see is that 48% believe he should be charged and 35% believe he should not.
00:38:58.000His approval rating is currently at 31%.
00:38:59.000Are these numbers likely to go up or down as this case continues?
00:39:09.000Again, every day that Republicans spend talking about Trump's various activities is a day they're not talking about Joe Biden's various activities and all the bad stuff that Joe Biden has done and the potential corruption that Joe Biden is embroiled in and the FBI whistleblower document that really should be the big story in the country.
00:39:26.000Lindsey Graham was getting ripped up and down yesterday for making the comparison of Trump to Hillary, and he's right on this.
00:39:31.000Again, two things can be true at once.
00:39:33.000He is right that Hillary Clinton should have been charged.
00:39:35.000Also, you cannot simultaneously make the case that Hillary should have been charged and Trump should not be charged unless you are basically willing to say that Hillary should have been charged, she wasn't.
00:39:45.000And because she wasn't, Trump should not be.
00:40:16.000What he did is very similar in my view to what Hillary Clinton did.
00:40:20.000People in the Clinton case took a hammer to a blackberry and destroyed it.
00:40:25.000They wiped clean with bleach bit emails.
00:40:29.000They said they were all personal, but some of them actually were classified and it wound up on Anthony Weiner's computer and not a damn thing happened to her.
00:40:37.000Okay, so again, Lindsey Graham is right about all of this, right?
00:40:40.000He is correct about all of this, but the best case that you can make for Trump at this point is that they didn't prosecute Hillary.
00:40:46.000When Trump was leading a chance to lock her up in 2016, then, you know, it's awkward.
00:41:10.000The standard is Navy v. Egan, a 1988 case.
00:41:12.000Unanimous decision from the court that Justice Blackmun wrote the opinion, and it said the President's ability to classify and control access to national security information flows from the Constitution.
00:41:58.000I didn't set the standard, the Constitution and the Supreme Court did, and they did it in a unanimous fashion, and it was opinion written by Justice Blackmun.
00:42:40.000So, if I'm someone with documents that I have a right to have as the president who left the White House, do I want people rummaging through my personal items?
00:43:12.000According to the indictment, Trump himself is saying that there are secret documents, including classified maps, and including secret documents inside the DOD, that he was revealing to non-classified sources.
00:43:21.000So, here is, in summation, the indictment is a problem for Trump.
00:43:25.000If this gets in front of a jury, which presumably it will, it's anybody's guess as to which way this is going to go.
00:43:30.000When it comes to whether the indictment should have been brought in the first place, that is a question for Merrick Garland and Joe Biden.
00:43:35.000We live in a country where it is a good idea to prosecute your chief political opponent on exactly the same behavior that A candidate of your party was exonerated on in 2016.
00:43:44.000That is really the political question.
00:43:46.000Once it gets into a court, though, this is very dangerous stuff for Trump, and it's a self-inflicted wound for Trump.
00:43:51.000When the documents were asked for by the National Archives, he should have returned them.
00:43:54.000Not because the National Archives deserve them, not because they're the most wonderful people in the world, but because out of an abundance of caution, if you know people are gunning for you, why wouldn't you just do the thing?
00:44:06.000Especially because it's not like Trump had a special use for these papers.
00:44:08.000I mean, we know what Trump wanted them for.
00:44:09.000He wanted them because he wanted them.
00:44:11.000As I've been saying literally since the beginning of this entire peculiar situation.
00:44:16.000The reason that Trump did this is because I like documents.
00:44:18.000He wasn't doing it to distribute to the Chinese.
00:44:24.000In the same way that Donald Trump likes putting his name on big gold letters on buildings, he wanted these documents in his possession because they were his.
00:44:30.000Is that foible of personality a smart idea to humor in the middle of a situation in which your political opposition hates your guts and wants you in jail?
00:44:39.000And it does speak to judgment when you go forward into a primary.
00:44:42.000You would think that Donald Trump understands his opposition better than literally anyone since he's the person who's being targeted by them.
00:44:47.000If you know that, don't you have a moral obligation to your own supporters and to your own agenda to guard yourself?
00:44:53.000To be careful so they can't do this to you?
00:44:57.000Well, we'll see how all of this plays out.
00:45:01.000Hey, somebody has to win and somebody has to lose in this culture war.
00:45:04.000We used to believe in the United States there was such a thing as neutral.
00:45:07.000There is no such thing as neutral anymore in the culture wars.
00:45:10.000The reason there's no such thing as neutral is because neutral used to be, you live the way you want to live and I'll live the way that I want to live.
00:45:16.000And when it comes to the teaching of children, we will restrict that to writing, reading, arithmetic.
00:45:20.000How you raise your kids will be a matter of baseline morality.
00:45:42.000And the only way that could happen is through sheer silencing.
00:45:45.000Silencing and public pressure and shouting and screaming and legal cram downs.
00:45:49.000That's the only way that the current culture could be destroyed and replaced with this new counterculture, pride progress, progressivism.
00:45:58.000And we're seeing it play out in real time and it is hideous.
00:46:00.000And it also means that everyone who thought they had the luxury of standing aside and just washing their hands of it and saying, whatever you do, you do wrong.
00:46:13.000So apparently, YouTube has now been going through literally all of the accounts over at Daily Wire and they've been looking for strikes.
00:46:22.000When I say strikes, what I mean here is they've been looking to basically get rid of all of the various accounts that are associated with Daily Wire.
00:46:31.000My account, Matt Walsh's account, Candace Owens' account, Michael Knoll's account, Jordan Peterson's account, Andrew Clavin's account, Brad Cooper's account.
00:46:36.000These accounts have a combined total of 157 million views on YouTube.
00:46:43.000Over the course of just the last month, about 20 million views a day, YouTube is attempting to kill these accounts.
00:46:49.000Because all of us speak the truth when it comes to the question of men and women and whether men are women or vice versa.
00:46:56.000So as Jeremy points out, last month, over the past few months, Daily Wire has received about 200 violations from YouTube across our accounts.
00:47:05.000And these are violations going back years.
00:47:07.000So they now have their little apparatchiks going through old videos looking for violations.
00:47:12.000Last month, Matt Walsh was demonetized.
00:47:13.000On Friday, Candace Owens and Michael Mulls were suspended for seven days after receiving their second strike, and Jordan Peterson was given his first strike three in 90 days and your account is terminated.
00:47:21.000In the last 90 days, our accounts have received 104 violations for hateful and derogatory content, earning them limited monetization.
00:47:28.000Again, nearly every one of these violations comes from our coverage of the trans debate.
00:47:33.000Again, the basic idea here is supposed to be that if you say that a boy cannot become a girl, and that is absolute, sheer, anti-scientific garbage, if you say that, YouTube will ban you.
00:47:46.000As Jeremy points out, YouTube claims the ability to openly debate political ideas, even those that are controversial, is core to a functioning democratic society, but this is presumably, at the same time, that they are literally silencing, like preventing you from saying these things.
00:48:00.000And if you say these things, then they strike you.
00:48:15.000The White House is pushing this stuff, too.
00:48:17.000And the White House is pushing this at the top level.
00:48:20.000I've seen no greater sign than the White House over the weekend that we have now seen the complete co-op.
00:48:26.000We've seen ideological coup in the United States.
00:48:29.000The Judeo-Christian value system has been completely destroyed in favor of pride progress, radical leftist gender ideology, individualistic nonsense.
00:48:36.000Joe Biden put up this tweet, quote, today, the people's house, your house sends a clear message to the country and to the world.
00:49:07.000No longer is it a matter of whatever floats your boat, live your own life behind private doors, that's your problem.
00:49:13.000No longer is that what the United States is.
00:49:15.000The United States is a place where this is the official doctrine of the United States, is that boys can be girls, girls can be boys, and if you stand up to that, you may be in legal peril.
00:49:24.000You could wind up in actual legal peril.
00:49:27.000This is a country where if you say that marriage is between one man and one woman, you could be criminalized.
00:49:32.000You could have your life taken away from you in a wide variety of ways.
00:50:20.000It is a fanatic religious movement dedicated to destroying all of its opposition through silencing and through, yes, the force of law.
00:50:27.000And when you see that hanging, I mean, again, this is no shock.
00:50:29.000You've seen Barack Obama all the way back in 2015, lighting up the White House in gay pride colors.
00:50:33.000But when you see the Pride Progress flag, giant Pride Progress flag, centered above the seal of the President of the United States, while the American flag is shunted off to the side, in what could maybe be a violation of the flag code, when you see that sort of stuff, you recognize what is happening here.
00:50:47.000The replacement of one ethic by another.
00:50:50.000The complete destruction of one ethos and its replacement by another.
00:51:34.000When we make the joke that essentially the Republican foreign policy is a bomb with an American flag on it and the Democratic foreign policy is a bomb with a Pride Progress flag on it, Joe Biden just says the thing.
00:51:47.000And here is Joe Biden saying that any anti-LGBTQ law, any law restricting, for example, genderqueer for third graders in school libraries violates our most basic values and that we have an obligation to spread those values around the world.
00:51:58.000He has now replaced the sort of moral imperium of the United States, which used to be rooted In freedom of speech and property rights, for example.
00:52:08.000Democracy, but while guarding individual rights.
00:52:11.000He has now replaced that with the single litmus test is how you treat gay marriage.
00:52:21.000You know, when families across the country face excruciating decisions to relocate to a different state to protect their child from dangerous anti-LGBTQ laws, we have to act.
00:52:34.000We need to push back against the hundreds of callous and cynical bills and laws introduced in states targeting transgender children, terrifying families, and criminalizing doctors and nurses.
00:52:48.000These bills and laws attack the most basic values and freedoms we have as Americans.