Vivek Ramaswamy is a student at the University of Pittsburgh and is running for President of Turning Point USA, a political organization dedicated to fighting for freedom and justice for all. In this episode, I sit down with him to talk about his path to the White House, why he decided to run for President, and what he thinks about the Democratic Party's approach to social work and poverty. He also shares his advice for aspiring social workers, and why he thinks the party should focus on lifting people up, rather than lifting people out of poverty. Learn how you can protect your wealth with Noble Gold Investments, a company that specializes in gold and physical delivery of precious metals. That is Noble Gold Investing, where I buy all of my gold. It's where I BUY ALL of my Gold! Go to NobleGoldInvestments.co/TheCharlieKirkShow and become a member today! The Charlie Kirk Show is the official gold sponsor of the show, and you get 20% off your first month when you become a Member! Learn more about your ad choices at NobleGold.co.org/thecharliekirkshow. Use the promo code: "membership" at checkout to receive $5 and receive $10 off your purchase when you sign up for a spot on the next month's mail-in discount! You can't ask for more than $50 and get 10% off the first month! FREE PRICING when you buy a piece of gold or silver? You'll get 5% off of $100 or $150 or more when you upgrade your rate your account? You get 5 years of your choice at Noble Gold? Click here to become a platinum membership! Subscribe to the show and receive 5-of-a-only $50 or more! Thank you, Charlie Kirk is a member of the Charlie Kirk show! Charlie Kirk's Freebie! Thanks, Charlie, I'll send you an ad-free version of TheCharlie Kirk Show! and I'll get $5,000 when you review the show becomes available in the next episode. and you'll get 7 days early and get an ad discount when the ad is reviewed by Charlie Kirk gets a discount of $150, $50,000 gets a maximum of $75,000 and I get a discount on the show gets my ad discount, and I'm also get a VIP discount when you enter the VIP discount starts!
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00:02:14.000The social work industry is very much about a perspective generally of that people in poverty are there permanently and not trying to break people out of poverty into the middle class or higher levels.
00:03:24.000Well, the reality is it created dependence on government.
00:03:26.000So you have a lot of single mothers, for example, that are paid more money not to have a man in the house than to have a man in the house because of the way the math of these aid programs work.
00:03:36.000Well, often the way the math of the aid is calculated is if you have an earning husband in the household, that actually causes you to disqualify for forms of federal aid that were designed to help you.
00:03:45.000But actually, the best way to get kids in your own household ahead is in a two-parent household because if you're raised in a two-parent household, you're less likely to end up in jail, less likely to end up in poverty, more likely to graduate from high school.
00:03:57.000So one of the ways that, if you're asking for advice, I would say for the people around you, even who might lean left, you can recognize their intentions come from a good place.
00:04:22.000The other thing I'll say is that we as conservatives believe that if you're in poverty, it's largely because of values, not because of lack of stuff.
00:04:56.000By Theodore Dalrymple, who's a social worker in the United Kingdom, it's called Life at the Bottom, where he got into social work because he wanted to help people, and he realized it was not a lack of stuff.
00:05:06.000It wasn't lack of housing, lack of food stamps.
00:05:08.000It was that their value system was one that kept them poor.
00:05:14.000So yeah, really quick, then I want to get to the next question.
00:05:15.000I'm just struggling because in all of my social work classes right now, they're talking about all of those things.
00:05:22.000I'm trying to learn about what I want to do.
00:05:25.000I think you need to stay in social work because you're called to do it.
00:05:28.000But there's an amazing amount of literature from Thomas Sowell to Shelby Steele to Theodore Dalrymple that get down to actual root causes of poverty, which is not lack of stuff, but is worldview.
00:05:47.000I've been thinking about like what I was going to ask.
00:05:49.000I couldn't think of like a really good question.
00:05:53.000I don't agree with kind of most of everything that either you stand for, but I've only really seen you on TikTok, so I don't actually know most of like what your deal is.
00:07:01.000I mean, you know, the God thing, that's up to whatever, you know, interpretation of, like, what you believe and what you believe is right in life.
00:07:10.000I don't think that's, like, something you should really debate.
00:07:13.000Also, wasn't that, like, a thing where you, like, separate church and state from the government?
00:07:21.000So, I'm telling you what I believe is true.
00:07:24.000The beauty of this country is that you're free to exercise your religion, whatever that is, including even those who are atheists are free to be atheists in the country.
00:07:34.000That our founding fathers believed that we are one nation under God, that there is one true God, and he puts us here for a purpose.
00:07:41.000And I think part of what we've lost in our country is a belief in a higher power.
00:07:46.000Part of the reason I think that our generation, mine too, we're so lost, is that we have a whole the size of God in our heart, and when God doesn't fill it, something else does instead.
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00:08:59.000So if you ask, let me ask you a question.
00:09:04.000If more people in this country believed in God and believed that God was looking out for them, do you think we would be more unified or do you think we would be more divided?
00:09:15.000I think it's just a question of morality.
00:09:17.000I think the whole point of religion is to instill good morals and how to live your life.
00:09:23.000And I think we can spend here all day debating whether God is real, heaven is real, but at the end of the day, you're going to live your life every day doing The same mundane things, you're probably not going to see a quote-unquote miracle.
00:09:48.000When I see a bullet three centimeters from going into someone's brain on national TV that would have maybe sparked a civil war, I think that maybe God's behind that.
00:10:21.000They specifically went after churches, even when they didn't go after liquor stores at the exact same time.
00:10:27.000I personally believe that, you know what, you're free to, as I said earlier, you're free to marry who you want if you want, but that doesn't mean that you should be forced to officiate somebody's wedding if your religion says you don't believe in that either.
00:10:37.000So I'm in favor of religious liberty in this country.
00:10:58.000I've never heard of this or either one of you before I saw this like whole group thing.
00:11:03.000So I wanted to ask the two of you how you feel about, do you think that women should take on traditional gender roles in society or in their homes?
00:11:14.000Yeah, I mean, generally yes, but you're free to choose as you wish.
00:11:17.000But I think that most women are sold a lie to pursue a career and not form a family, and I think that comes at great cost.
00:11:24.000And I think we should elevate the nuclear family first and foremost.
00:11:29.000If you want to pursue a career, you have the agency to do that.
00:11:56.000A career is a great thing, but I can tell you as a father of two young babies and Vivek of two young kids, my career is nothing compared to the depth and the meaning and the purpose that I derive from being a father to two young kids.
00:12:34.000And the reality is, I don't see, and she doesn't see a trade-off between her ability to be an excellent mother to our two sons, which she is.
00:12:42.000I think I'm speaking for her when I say that she believes she is stronger at what she does in saving lives because it gives her more meaning in being a mother as well.
00:12:51.000I say this as somebody who ran for U.S. president last year.
00:12:53.000If I felt like that would compromise my role as a father, I wouldn't do it or any of the other companies I've built.
00:12:59.000But one of the things I've found is it makes me stronger as a father and Apoorva stronger as a mother because we actually care for those kids.
00:13:06.000And so does that mean we should somehow move to a society where people are having fewer children and delaying family formation?
00:13:13.000I think being a strong woman and a strong man alike is acknowledging we can pursue our own dreams but recognize that it all starts with a strong household, and we're proud of that.
00:14:02.000It's driven by other continents, driven by places like Africa.
00:14:05.000But in the United States of America right now, what you call the replacement rate, so the number of births net of deaths, We're at 1.6, 1.68.
00:14:21.000So our population is actually declining in this country.
00:14:24.000And if you want to ask me, people talk about the threat of climate change to the future of humanity in the West.
00:14:29.000I think the depopulation of the West is a far greater threat to our future than the climate ever will be because we're not having enough people to sustain elderly growing populations, and that's a major problem.
00:14:40.000So one of the greatest things I think we could do for our country over the next hundred years is actually form more families and bring more children into this world.
00:14:47.000It's probably the best thing that somebody could do for their country outside of politics.
00:14:52.000I think that our infrastructure, there's so many people in cities that our infrastructure is starting to lack where we can actually support people anymore.
00:15:00.000And I think the government is starting to be able to not support people as well because there's just so many people.
00:15:07.000And I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that the population is declining.
00:15:12.000We'll finish with a quick question and let you answer.
00:15:15.000So you said infrastructure is declining.
00:15:16.000We're not able to support our population.
00:15:18.000What do you think happens 20 years from now where we have a bunch of people in their 80s, far more than we've ever had, with far fewer working age people in their 20s, 30s, or 40s?
00:15:29.000Do you think that problem of the infrastructure to support our country is going to be worse or better against that backdrop?
00:15:34.000You know, Japan is suffering from that same issue.
00:15:37.000And I think that hopefully that the scientific innovation of supporting elderly people will get better.
00:15:46.000And that maybe you're right, that the infrastructure problem won't be as bad as having other people, as having elderly people.
00:16:18.000I have a question about why you care so much about abortion as a man.
00:16:24.000I can see why women care a lot about abortion, but as men, it doesn't really impact you unless your wife chose to have an abortion.
00:16:34.000But women, like, outside of your wife or, like, your sister or immediate family choosing to have an abortion doesn't really affect you much.
00:16:41.000So I'm just curious to, like, why that's such a big concern and why things like the homicide rate in Baltimore City isn't, like, more of a big concern and why, like, the homicide rates around the country aren't a bigger concern.
00:19:19.000But why are we, why is like America so, is much more focused on abortion rather than like the people who are already like adults or young kids getting into gangs?
00:19:31.000I feel like that's not as much of a concern, whereas abortion is like this mainstream media thing, whereas stuff like that's not that big of a concern.
00:19:38.000So I want to address that and then we'll finish with a question I have for you on the abortion question.
00:19:43.000So I think that we're not focused enough on law and order in our cities.
00:19:46.000I think that actually, I think I speak for Charlie and myself both, when I believe that police officers need to be equipped to do their jobs rather than to be hamstrung.
00:19:54.000We have waves of rampant crime from Pittsburgh, Columbus, Ohio, where I come from, all the way to places like Baltimore that you mentioned.
00:20:01.000So I think it's wrong that in the name of protecting black communities, more black lives are lost in those inner cities when we clear the jails and defund the police.
00:20:10.000So if you share with us the view that we need to focus more on providing resources and latitude for police officers to make sure especially our cities are safer, we're on the same page and we're in the agree camp.
00:20:20.000But you came up because we got you the front line because you're in the disagree camp and I just want to finish by asking you a question on abortion.
00:21:49.000I think you can tell who I am voting for, but we talked about the Butler rally earlier.
00:21:54.000And I want to ask you your thoughts, because as a strong Catholic, I struggle with what the Republican Party, we as the Republican Party, have been pushing the agenda that it was a miracle of God.
00:22:04.000Because as a Catholic, I do struggle to wrap my head around saying that God chose Trump over a man who was killed in front of his family.
00:22:12.000And I want to ask you your thoughts on that, because I struggle as a Catholic to believe that to be a miracle of God.
00:22:17.000And to struggle with God is literally what Israel means, which is to wrestle with God.
00:22:21.000Two things can be mutually true, which is that God saved the life of Donald Trump, and we don't know why he didn't save the life of the firefighter.
00:22:30.000And look, the scriptures say time and time again that God will choose life and death.
00:22:36.000He is the author of both life and death.
00:22:39.000And I don't have a good answer for you, other than maybe that there was...
00:22:45.000There's a plan for Donald Trump beyond that rally in Pennsylvania, and what would have ensued if Trump would have had his brain bones out on TV would have been pretty bad.
00:22:53.000Thank you, and thank you guys for all you do.
00:22:55.000And I think in the same way, I think God has a plan for you too, man.
00:22:59.000So keep being open with that struggle, and I think hopefully it will lead you to truth.
00:23:03.000I will say, I was one of your biggest supporters in your campaign, man.
00:23:06.000I was hoping you could go all the way.
00:23:11.000So, as a fellow right-wing person, I actually am just wondering how you feel about Social Security going bankrupt by the early 2030s because, Charlie, if I remember correctly, you don't believe in retirement because it's not biblical?
00:23:29.000Yeah, for me personally, but I understand other people might want to retire.
00:23:42.000He knows the numbers better than I do.
00:23:44.000So I don't feel great about it, is the answer.
00:23:46.000And I think that even as it relates to the replacement rate of birth rates in the United States, that's only going to make that problem a lot worse.
00:23:57.000I got my first job out of college at an investment firm.
00:24:00.000I went in and started a number of companies after that.
00:24:02.000So I kind of approached this with a business mindset.
00:24:05.000If you go back to 2003, if everybody in Social Security, if you just invested that the same way that I invested the paltry amount of money I got in my first job out of college, which is in a diversified basket of stocks and bonds and other commodities, We would have a Social Security surplus today such that the average person collecting $80,000 a month would be actually collecting several hundred thousand dollars per month today.
00:24:33.000So $8,000 a month would be $80,000 a month and several hundred thousand dollars per year.
00:24:38.000So that's a mistake we made in the past.
00:24:40.000We can fix that mistake for the future.
00:24:43.000And right now, the federal laws stop us from doing it.
00:24:46.000So the short answer is, next step, get Donald Trump in office, drill frack, burn coal, grow the economy.
00:25:08.000Okay, and Charlie, what do you mean you're only half kidding about, you know, you said retirement isn't biblical?
00:25:14.000Well, I think that if you're able-bodied, you shouldn't retire.
00:25:17.000I think that you should always be doing something.
00:25:19.000The idea to retire is that you're checking out a society, whether you're mentoring, you're volunteering, helping out at the church, helping out in the community.
00:25:26.000If you're 80 years old and you still have your faculties, I think that you being involved in your community, you have a moral obligation to do so.
00:25:34.000And I think this idea of just checking out and playing golf all day long is fine, but I actually...
00:26:39.000You recently made a comment about how if your 10-year-old daughter were to be raped and impregnated, you would force her to carry the baby to term.
00:26:47.000I'm wondering, do you still agree with that?
00:26:49.000Well, I mean, that's quite a graphic way to say it.
00:27:19.000Okay, so if I have two ultrasounds right now, one of a baby conceived in rape, one conceived in a consensual relationship, which one is which?
00:27:27.000Whether or not you can tell if an ultrasound is a human baby is irrelevant to the fact of whether that life has value.
00:27:33.000Most people would not define the life of an unborn fetus.
00:27:37.000First of all, plan B. You've mentioned before that you don't think that's necessarily as bad.
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00:29:09.000Well, it is, because it's not an abortifacient, because what it does is it prevents the woman's release of progesterone, which very well might prevent the fertilization of an egg.
00:31:33.000No different than my six-month-old right now does not have the ability to speak yet.
00:31:38.000Just because my six-month-old doesn't have the ability to speak yet doesn't mean it's okay to kill my six-month-old, correct?
00:31:45.000Charlie, of course I would never say that.
00:31:47.000No, I know, but what I'm saying is there's so many fault lines in the pro-abortion argument.
00:31:51.000And again, to be consistent, is it okay to pull the plug of anybody in a hospital that does not have detectable brainwaves?
00:31:59.000I think that oftentimes when somebody is not showing any detectable brainwaves, you would make a decision with your family on whether or not you pull that plug.
00:32:08.000You're not going to leave this person forever.
00:32:15.000What Charlie says about his daughter reflects the values of his family, and I think it takes great conviction for Charlie to have adopted the stance that— Do you have that same conviction?
00:34:20.000So my question is, by increasing tariffs, do you think that's the best way to onshore jobs?
00:34:25.000So I actually want to be really clear about Donald Trump's stance on this, because there's others in the Republican Party that go in another direction on this.
00:34:31.000Donald Trump's stance is that if a country is applying tariffs to us at a higher rate than we are to them, then they don't get the free lunch anymore.
00:34:40.000So that actually creates an incentive for other countries to reduce tariffs on American manufacturers.
00:34:43.000That's what people miss about the debate, and it's sad for me to kind of watch, because there are some Republicans who just believe tariffs need to exist to protect American manufacturers.
00:34:51.000That's a myth of a debate because that's not the status quo.
00:34:54.000The status quo is our so-called trading partners have higher tariffs on us than we have on them.
00:34:59.000So that's actually been the position that Trump's at.
00:35:01.000The number one area where I think it's important though, let's just get to brass tacks, we cannot depend on China for our own military or our own pharmaceutical supply chain or our own electronics industry.
00:35:13.000So if we're dependent on an enemy or an adversary for our way of life, it doesn't make any sense if they're also supplying our military.
00:35:19.000That's the number one thing we need to focus on.
00:35:21.000That's going to require onshoring a lot to the United States.
00:35:25.000But a second best answer, if it means we're actually entering better trading relationships with others, that's cool.
00:35:29.000But focus on mission number one, declaring economic independence from China.
00:35:33.000That's what I favor, and Donald Trump's policies will help get us there.
00:35:36.000What are your thoughts on companies from China moving to Mexico and Vietnam to get around some of the regulatory stuff that we put out there?
00:35:44.000It's gaming, and China has been a master since the 1990s of gaming our system right back against us.
00:35:50.000We've got to force them to play by the same set of rules, or else they don't get the benefits of trading with us.