Jessica Rosenworcel is a commissioner on the Federal Communications Commission, the agency that has the power to regulate the internet and the way we access it. She's also the wife of billionaire investor Eddie Wong, who has been on the pod many times. In this episode, Jessica and Eddie talk about what's at stake for the future of the internet, net neutrality, and why people are so concerned about it. They also talk about why they think Ajit Pai is a smart guy and why he should be careful about what he's trying to do with the internet. And they talk about how important it is that the internet is open and free for all of us to use it as a tool to connect to the world. You can t ask for much more. You're not going to get more information on todays episode than right here. Subscribe to JRE on Apple Podcasts and leave us a rating and review in iTunes. Thanks for listening and share the podcast with your friends! Timestamps: 5:00 - What s at stake here? 6:30 - Why people are worried about net neutrality? 7:15 - What are you worried about? 8:20 - Why do you care about the internet? 9:40 - Is the internet a free thing? 10:00 11:10 - Why is the internet important to you? 12:15 13:40 14: What s the long-term impact of the Internet? 15:30 16:00 -- Why the internet should be open? 17:30 -- What are we should be free from government control? 18:40 -- Is the Internet a free market? 19:20 -- What is the Internet good for us? 21:10 -- What does the internet really need to be free? 22:00 | What's the internet's future? 23:30 | What are the internet s role in the internet in the 21st century? 25:00 // 22:40 | What s it really mean? 26:10 27: How do we know what s the real value of the web? 29: What is it all about the Internet in the Internet ? 30:00: Is it a good thing 35:30 // Is it possible to make it better than it s a good business? 31:40 // Is there a better way to make the internet better?
00:00:23.000I just, you know, I wanted to introduce you to the homie, the commissioner from the FCC. Jessica Rosenworcel?
00:00:31.000Because things are bad for the internet right now.
00:00:34.000Well, you are very concerned and a lot of people are about net neutrality and we all have some questions about it and we're excited to talk to you about it.
00:00:43.000So maybe we could illuminate some of the issues and give us an understanding or try to help us understand what's at stake here and why are people so concerned?
00:00:54.000Well, I think people are concerned, because the future of the Internet's the future of everything.
00:00:59.000I mean, every aspect of our lives is now touched by that connectivity.
00:01:03.000And it's a funny thing, but the agency where I work in Washington, the Federal Communications Commission, has enormous power and control over our Internet experience.
00:01:13.000And for decades, we've had these policies that have been all about Internet openness.
00:01:18.000And what that means is you can go where you want, Do what you want online and your broadband provider can't get in the way or prevent you from looking at some websites or looking at some videos or setting up some businesses.
00:01:32.000But that changed last month in Washington when the FCC, over my objections, voted to end net neutrality.
00:01:42.000And as a result, all of our broadband providers now have the legal right to block websites, to throttle content, and to set up Sweetheart paid for prioritization deals.
00:01:57.000And over the long haul, that could really change The internet and the web as we know it.
00:02:03.000Now, one of the arguments pro-net neutrality, one of the arguments for people that were excited about this being signed, they were saying that net neutrality was really only over the last couple of years.
00:02:16.000And before the last couple of years, net neutrality as we know it.
00:02:19.000The last couple years everything was fine and that it'll continue to be fine and that people are just panicked.
00:02:25.000And there was that really bizarre video that one dude made where he was saying, these are all the things you're going to be able to do.
00:03:03.000Yeah, you know, for me, the net neutrality thing is huge because when I was in law school, I read this one book called Fighting for Air and it documented like the Telecommunications Act of 97. It's like boring stuff, right?
00:03:16.000Don't go read the Telecommunications Act of 97. But like radio mattered to me.
00:03:20.000Remember like growing up with the radio, like I remember they would actually break records on the radio back in the day.
00:03:25.000Like Funk Flex still does it on Hot 97. He'll break records.
00:03:28.000He broke my boy Old Drew's record the other day but like recently it's like Clear Channel, iHeartRadio they own all the radio stations and it really sterilized content and they play the same songs every hour in every city almost around the world and I when I read that book and I went to law school I realized I was like yo it was because of the deregulation of radio that allowed for all these local independent Radio stations in every
00:03:58.000city that were repping local culture and state culture that kind of eroded that means of communication.
00:04:07.000And I was like, this happens to every single industry we have, whether it's radio, television, but now it's coming for the internet and by deregulating it, you're going to gut it again.
00:04:16.000You know, like, when technology started popping and podcasts came around, I mean, that's what enabled JRE and that's why my first place to go was like, I'm gonna come see Joe.
00:04:26.000Because you were one of the innovators with this new technology.
00:05:35.000I think there's an argument that you want government out of the way.
00:05:38.000Deregulation is going to lead to more competition and we'll have a flourishing of new ideas and content if we just move government out of the way.
00:05:48.000And even if you're sympathetic to that argument, here's where I think it breaks down.
00:05:53.000According to the FCC's own data, half of the households in this country don't have a choice of broadband provider.
00:06:02.000I only have one provider that serves my house.
00:06:04.000So the thing is, if your broadband provider started blocking your content or throttling your access to some video, in a competitive market, you'd pick up, you'd take your business somewhere else.
00:06:14.000But about half of our households don't even have that opportunity.
00:06:19.000So, to me, the idea that the competitive market will prevent this behavior just doesn't fly.
00:06:26.000Yeah, that doesn't seem to make sense.
00:06:27.000And that's an issue in my neighborhood as well, and a lot of other people I know as well.
00:06:31.000I mean, I think they make deals where only one company, whether it's Verizon or whatever, has an area.
00:06:37.000Yeah, they monopolize the areas, they limit the opportunities and choices.
00:06:41.000And when they say deregulation, it just, anytime they deregulate things and say, hey, we're going to leave it to the market and have competition.
00:06:49.000I think it's impossible to have that when you have a country with such an inequality, income inequality gap.
00:07:11.000I think deregulation works when you have multiple players and options and that the market actually can come into play.
00:07:17.000But with the economy so top-heavy right now...
00:07:20.000I don't think there is a possibility of competition.
00:07:23.000Yeah, I mean, listen, competition is the best regulator we know, right?
00:07:26.000We want there to be these markets where consumers have lots and lots of choices.
00:07:31.000But if competition isn't existing, you need a little oversight to make sure that every consumer gets a fair shot.
00:07:37.000Well, it seems like that's where the real argument lies, that if there are monopolies, and there seem to be in certain areas in regards to what kind of internet access you can get, that if you don't have regulation then, then what is going to protect the consumer?
00:07:52.000What's going to protect Say if you are on Verizon and your system is on Verizon, what if you decide to make a podcast that criticizes Verizon?
00:08:01.000And everybody says, you know, hey, Eddie Wong's got a podcast criticizing us.
00:09:27.000I think, though, the biggest harm is to entrepreneurship.
00:09:31.000Because right now, look, you have a good idea, you got a business, a service, you can go online, and you can almost instantly have global reach.
00:09:41.000But now you're going to have to figure out, is your broadband provider instead going to shuffle off all your traffic to someone else who's paying them on the side?
00:09:50.000Are you going to have a fair shot to show your wares and your ideas to the world?
00:09:55.000Because I start thinking, like, A bad one percenter dude and I'm like alright if there's no net neutrality and I'm the only person that can service Calabasas, California, Woodland Hills, California well I'm gonna charge all the other streaming providers more money to use this and I'm gonna create a competitor in every single one of these sectors so you can have an advantage if you have your show with me and if you're on the other one I'm gonna disadvantage you I'm gonna tax you basically So,
00:10:56.000They are trying to get rid of what just happened at the FCC. They're trying to use this law called the Congressional Review Act that in effect just undone everything that the FCC just did.
00:11:09.000So it's a way to wipe out what just happened.
00:11:12.000And while the odds are long, there's more than 40 United States senators who have sponsored that law.
00:11:19.000And in the House side, there's more than 80 members of the House of Representatives.
00:11:22.000So there's momentum growing in Congress to take a look at this issue and maybe fix what the FCC did.
00:11:29.000And if you're sitting out there and thinking they're not listening to you, what you should do is something totally old-fashioned.
00:11:35.000You should pick up the phone, call your members of Congress and your representatives, and let them know you care about this issue.
00:11:41.000Because that, still today, is one of the most powerful ways of conveying your opinion to those who represent you.
00:12:24.000And I'm not sure how that all comes together legally, but what you see is this momentum growing that people are not happy with what Washington just did.
00:12:32.000The thing that I'm worried about with the state's laws, right?
00:12:35.000So just to lay it out for the listeners, right?
00:12:38.000The government will pass the federal law, but then states have their own rights to regulate certain things.
00:12:43.000Let's say we use marijuana laws as an example, because recently a lot of states passed legal marijuana laws, right?
00:12:51.000But then Trump gave people the power to enforce federal laws about marijuana more stringently, right?
00:12:58.000He was telling the federal government, hey, enforce our federal marijuana laws.
00:13:03.000Well, it's really Jeff Sessions, right?
00:13:25.000But I'm just standing back and seeing really just a lot of energy on this issue.
00:13:30.000There's nothing else that I've worked on in Washington, where this immediately state houses decided to put pen to paper and introduce legislation.
00:13:39.000And I think that that momentum is what's really exciting here.
00:13:42.000Well, I think everyone understands the insane power of the Internet and what a cultural shift that we've experienced over the last 20 years.
00:13:53.000I mean, it's unprecedented in human history.
00:13:55.000There's never been anything like it in terms of access to information, in terms of the rate of change, the way people look at things, the way the issues get discussed, the cycle of news, which is like, what, 10 hours now?
00:14:23.000It looks like it was a state-level issue, but you can't have things like that happen.
00:14:28.000We've got to figure out a way in this digital world that we get accurate information to people faster.
00:14:34.000And we've got to come up with better systems than the one we just saw.
00:14:37.000You mean somebody pressed a button and sent out a text that said that there's an incoming ballistic missile, a possibility, a threat of an incoming ballistic missile and this is not a drill?
00:14:47.000And then I have friends in Hawaii and everyone went crazy.
00:14:53.000And of course, this is a state that was attacked, you know, less than 100 years ago during World War II. So this is, it's not an unusual thing for them.
00:15:01.000I had the privilege of working for Senator Inouye from Hawaii years ago.
00:15:05.000And I think Hawaiians are, you know, they're graceful, they're resilient, but they live with the knowledge that they are susceptible to some attack.
00:15:13.000So this gave them 40 minutes, the worst 40 minutes of their life.
00:15:17.000And the amazing thing to me is it took like 10 minutes or so for this to be corrected on Twitter.
00:15:23.000It took another half hour for our official systems to update and say, in fact, this was a mistake.
00:15:33.000Yeah, but then once I figured out it was a mistake, I was like, whoa, maybe I should ask Jessica if we could send like a national message on my birthday, 12 a.m.
00:15:54.000But what Joe was saying about the internet and how it opened things up, like personally for me, like today's Martin Luther King Jr. Day, right?
00:16:02.000And I remember reading a letter from Birmingham jail as a kid.
00:16:06.000Jonathan Swift, Modest Proposal as a kid, and Tupac, Me Against the World.
00:16:11.000Those were like the three works that made me want to write.
00:16:14.000And I started writing since I was 15 years old, never gave up, but no one would buy my writing, right?
00:16:20.000The only place I would buy my writing was Roto-Wire, and I would write fantasy sports updates for them.
00:16:26.000I covered the Magic and I covered the Knicks.
00:16:28.000But all the way until I was like 28 years old, no one wanted to buy my writing.
00:16:34.000That allowed me to write in my own voice and find my own audience.
00:16:39.000And then people started to see, whoa, there are like weird children on the internet that like Eddie's writing, like he's creating a lane.
00:16:47.000And I talked to my publisher at Random House and they're like, yeah, you created a lane selling books to people who don't buy books, non-traditional readers.
00:16:55.000And so without the internet, without Blogspot, Without that ability to just project my voice and hope someone connects, I never would have happened.
00:17:04.000But it is totally radical as a matter of human history that you can reach out, reach around the world and build community with total disregard for geography and find people who like fantasy sports or something like that and build community around it.
00:17:52.000Think about what that does for commerce or diplomacy or your ability to talk to me across the table without having a translator in some clunky way try to describe what I just said.
00:18:04.000And you want all of our collective genius to drive them and not have big gatekeepers like our broadband providers in the way.
00:18:12.000Yeah, it seems to be a real issue, and I think that we should look at the internet as something different than almost all other services, because it directly affects our ability to evolve as a culture.
00:21:00.000A Democrat or a Republican, you benefit from net neutrality and internet openness.
00:21:03.000If you're conservative or liberal, if you're a big business or a small business, you benefit from internet openness.
00:21:09.000And the history of net neutrality is something that doesn't get discussed enough, which is that it began the first time the FCC put net neutrality policy on paper.
00:21:21.000It was 2005. And I'm old enough to remember that that was when President George W. Bush was in the White House.
00:21:28.000In other words, this country's first net neutrality policies were put on paper when a Republican was running the FCC. It is only in recent days we have characterized this as a left-right issue, and I think that's fundamentally a mistake.
00:21:59.000Well, you know, through a whole bunch of boring Washington procedures whereby they circulate out a proposed rulemaking and tell you what data goes on.
00:22:06.000How did he get the power and leverage to pass this?
00:22:10.000I think that he was supported by people in Washington, including some broadband providers, and was led to believe that with deregulation, we would all be better off.
00:22:23.000And then what I find interesting is Google, Amazon, Facebook, these big power players used to be very vocal, net neutrality, keep the internet free, things like that.
00:22:35.000They're not as loud as they used to be.
00:22:42.000Well, first, I want to point out that those big companies through their association are going to be intervening in the lawsuits in favor of net neutrality.
00:22:51.000But to me, net neutrality has never really been about big companies.
00:22:54.000It's about who's going to be the next...
00:22:58.000Who's going to be the next startup and the next player?
00:23:01.000The big companies can always find ways to build relationships and manage this kind of lack of neutrality online with their leverage that come from size.
00:23:11.000It's the question of who's going to start something up that you and I may not see because they didn't pay off their broadband provider.
00:23:18.000It's the entrepreneurship that has me most concerned.
00:23:23.000So when I was saying that there seems like an ideological rift, there's certain people that are not very well versed in this issue that automatically side one way or another.
00:23:33.000This is a thing that we do in this country culturally, a right-left thing.
00:23:49.000They fall into these ideological groups, and those pull yourself up by your bootstraps, right-wing, you know, there's this sort of conservative way of thinking that, let the market decide, and this is that conversation.
00:24:03.000I don't think that's an honest conversation if you're dealing with monopolies in regards to Internet access, which I think a lot of, and I am, and you are, a lot of people are.
00:24:12.000It's a giant part of living in America.
00:24:14.000And that tribalism that you're describing right now, it's really deteriorating the quality of our dialogue in Washington.
00:24:21.000We've got to find a way to fix it because we're not going to move ahead without actually having some back and forth on these things.
00:24:30.000But this is like the one issue where I'm like, it actually brings people together.
00:24:37.000But that's what's scary about this country now is that even when so many of us agree about something, when one very powerful group, a lobby, the broadband companies, get behind somebody with some control, they can push the needle.
00:24:52.000My email inbox, which was an explosive thing leading up to this vote, was full of people writing and telling me their stories.
00:25:02.000But a whole bunch of them were like...
00:25:04.000You know, I'm a registered Republican, but I want you to know, or I supported the president, but I believe net neutrality is really important.
00:25:13.000It was striking to me, like, once you get out of the talking head types, what you found is that there was really broad-based support for net neutrality.
00:25:24.000Well, what's stunning about this administration is how Trump's administration is just going ham for business.
00:25:30.000They are going ham for offshore drilling.
00:25:33.000They're going ham for diminishing state parks and starting to tap into resources, whether it's mining or fracking.
00:25:42.000It's like he knows the world's going to end in 25 years or something.
00:27:16.000Yeah, it's like all the money goes to the fence and Department of Education is gutted, Department of Energy is gutted, Department of Environment, all these things are gutted.
00:27:24.000Everything that has to do with our even present and future, it's gutted.
00:27:29.000The only thing that's going is business and defense.
00:27:33.000The argument for that is that as business booms, as the economy booms, there'll be more opportunities for businesses to clean up the environment and profit off of it.
00:27:58.000I think, at the very least, the Trump administration, and I'm trying to look at it through rose-colored glasses, is a fascinating experiment in so many different ways.
00:28:08.000But it's also, I think, made us all more conscious of our role as citizens.
00:30:08.000Like, if you gave people the option, you said, hey, do you think that five people should be able to decide whether or not 320 million plus, plus the rest of the world, really, because if your podcast gets cut off, you're not going to be able to reach Canada either.
00:30:24.000Do you think that they should be able to stop access to information?
00:30:27.000I mean, three people defied 83% of the American public.
00:30:33.000And that's the type of shit that makes me feel trapped in this country sometimes because we didn't elect these people, you know?
00:30:40.000Yeah, I think you've got to make a choice, which is you've got to choose to be optimistic, because it's the only force multiplier we have, which is you're going to decide that if something's not right, you're going to call, you're going to write letters, you're going to write editorials,
00:30:55.000you're going to build campaigns around things, because in the end, that's the only way to change things.
00:31:01.000And if all of us felt a little of that spirit, gosh, today, if not every day, I think that that would make extraordinary difference.
00:31:10.000And we're already seeing its impact in Washington.
00:31:12.000There are more people showing up in the capital city for votes, for marches.
00:31:18.000There are more people reaching out to their members of Congress than ever before.
00:31:22.000And I just think we're going to have to sustain that energy if we want to create some real change.
00:31:26.000I think it's about more people who have an opinion, values that are trustworthy in the community running.
00:31:32.000I think more people need to run because for a while, I've actually looked at government as something like I maybe could never be part of.
00:32:37.000I'm not running, but my thing is that I think we all need to have a stake in the cats that are running and ask the questions that need to be asked because I've been one of the people that just shows up maybe two weeks before the election Two weeks before the deadline of the absentee ballot,
00:32:54.000and I go research for two weeks, and I go check out all the pros and cons of each candidate, and after two weeks, I decide.
00:33:01.000But, you know, I should be involved more than that as citizens.
00:33:05.000Well, you can announce your congressional run right here, right now.
00:33:27.000Find a way to participate in public life and give back.
00:33:31.000And whether you run or support someone or encourage your friends, and they don't have to be the person who was the student council president in high school.
00:34:38.000There's some extraordinary percentage of men who drive for a living.
00:34:44.000And if you eliminate that, you're going to have a lot of people out of work.
00:34:47.000We have automation that's coming to factories and all these different places.
00:34:51.000It's going to eliminate the need for humans, cut out all the human error.
00:34:54.000What are we going to do with all those people?
00:34:56.000And what are we going to do with all those jobs?
00:34:57.000And how do you give these people this This newfound possibility, this avenue for exploring new potential career paths.
00:35:07.000Well, the best way is to have their money taken care of in terms of food and shelter.
00:35:12.000Give them the freedom to explore ideas.
00:35:15.000Yeah, because it's a benefit a lot of people have and then they do great work and you take that stress off their plate.
00:35:21.000But I talked about the conversation because we had a good discussion about it and then it went on for weeks on Twitter.
00:35:27.000We kept talking and then we both kind of came around on things and I was like, yo, this is great.
00:35:32.000And when I think about candidates, I think about I would vote for somebody who...
00:35:37.000They're going to stick to their guns and they're going to do what they said they would and their values aren't going to change once they go to D.C. That's all you can ask for from a person.
00:35:47.000Be honest about who you are and be who you are when you go to D.C. Well, I'm looking at the future of civilization, right?
00:35:53.000Like, where are we now and this insane change we've experienced over the last 20 years because of the internet, what is it going to be like in 20 years from now?
00:36:02.000And what happens to the average person, the average human being?
00:36:06.000We have this idea that you're supposed to show up 9 to 5 for a job, and that's what you do, and then you work until you're retired.
00:36:13.000But that's all something that people invented.
00:36:17.000I mean, all of this is a new thing in terms of human history.
00:36:20.000This is not the only way human beings can live.
00:36:23.000And The idea that this is the only way to use our tax money or our resources is the way we're doing it currently, that doesn't seem to be that logical.
00:36:33.000And I would like people to have more opportunity to innovate and create and more freedom where they don't feel shackled down.
00:36:41.000There's a lot of people out there that just feel shackled down by just the need to feed themselves and survive.
00:36:48.000Yeah, and also just even school, like I started reading and listening to these podcasts about sleep, right?
00:36:58.000It's like reading or listening to podcasts about sleep.
00:37:03.000Yeah, well you could get information any way now.
00:37:04.000I have this image of you with insomnia listening to podcasts about sleep.
00:37:08.000No, but I listened to this dude and he was talking about like, it's a scientific thing.
00:37:13.000Some people are on a different body rhythm.
00:37:15.000They just don't do well in the morning.
00:37:17.000And he looked at schools and the school schedule.
00:37:19.000And the school schedule is based on mom and dads.
00:37:21.000They have a nine to five based on traffic.
00:37:23.000Let's try to get these kids into school for high school the earliest, then middle school later, then elementary school after that.
00:37:29.000And some people, because they're morning people, they're just at such a disadvantage.
00:37:34.000And high school, college, this is like kind of an educational industrial complex.
00:37:39.000If you don't fit in, if you're not cookie cutter in the way your body and your mind works, you're not going to be successful.
00:37:45.000And speaking to what Joe's talking about is...
00:37:48.000I genuinely believe, even with some of the silliest people I've met, everybody has some sort of genius.
00:37:55.000We're just not fostering the unearthing of that.
00:37:59.000Look, there's some hilarious stuff that happens at Bauhaus at the restaurant, but I tell myself every time, alright, this guy totally messed up making this Bau, this guy totally messed up butchering this chicken, but find a place where he can succeed.
00:38:33.000Yeah, the problem is if you do have a nine-to-five job and you're trying to feed yourself and get along, you're going to have less chances to innovate.
00:38:41.000You're going to have less chances to take risky decisions and just try things out.
00:38:47.000That is why internet openness is so important, though.
00:38:50.000Because this was a platform and a space for you to go experiment, build community, find communities, figure out what your genius might involve, which may not be what you're doing at work every day.
00:39:03.000And I think the idea that Washington is mucking around with that is just crazy.
00:39:10.000Well, I definitely don't think they like the fact that people have this ability.
00:39:13.000I definitely think if the people who created the Internet knew what they were doing when they released this on the general public, they probably wouldn't have.
00:39:22.000To give people the kind of access to information and the ability to change things, what we've seen through Arab Spring, we've seen through so many different...
00:39:31.000Cultures that are using this to change the way they interact with each other.
00:39:35.000You know, it was interesting during our net neutrality proceeding, Tim Berners-Lee, who invented the web, and Vint Cerf, who invented the internet, along with some real icons from early days, like Mitchell Baker from Mozilla,
00:39:50.000all wrote us and said, do not change these rules.
00:39:55.000And it seems like when you've got that incredible genius of these people who created this connected world for you and told you that this agency in Washington is going to really mess around with it, it strikes me that we should have listened.
00:40:08.000Well, we definitely should have listened.
00:40:09.000But we also shouldn't have this place where five people get to make this decision.
00:40:14.000Yeah, going to what you just said, Joe, it's like even like let's say my role – just to explain for you, my role as the owner or manager at the restaurant, it's not necessarily – Always my job to create a role for somebody and find a way for them to be successful in my restaurant.
00:44:01.000I think that this new world of the internet in terms of like the ability to explore these communities and like you said video like see the video of someone like this clock this Russell built made this clock for us that that grandfather clock I mean that dude made that all the metal he welded it all put it all together I mean this this kind of stuff to me is so fascinating and I don't just like it because I'm interested in the craft of it all I
00:44:31.000like it because I see it as an opportunity for people to get out of the grind.
00:44:37.000If you can make things and sell things, if you have an internet connection and you have an Instagram account which is free and you have an iPhone, you take your phone, you film something, next thing you know you're selling things.
00:44:50.000It's an incredible time for opportunity to escape.
00:45:18.000But then it's like when you become in control of your own shit and you go do what you're passionate about, it's like, well, then I became successful.
00:45:26.000And I try to tell people all the time, like, if this doesn't work for you, the straight and narrow doesn't work for you, like, think of a way, think about what you think your strengths are and play to that.
00:45:36.000Don't let anyone tell you you're a failure, you're unsuccessful, because you don't fit the stereotype.
00:45:40.000You know, I think it's really important, though, for successful people like yourself to tell their failure stories.
00:48:57.000And that's one of the things that I always try to relay to people that are negative about physical exercise and exertion because they think that it's some sort of a frivolous venture that's just...
00:49:08.000Vanity, you just want to look good or use your body.
00:49:11.000There's a mental aspect to having the ability to push through discomfort that is extremely valuable.
00:49:19.000And if you don't have that switch where you can be comfortable being uncomfortable because you've done it a million times, if you don't...
00:49:31.000And that ability to push through discomfort helps you not just in physical exercise and exertion, but it also helps you in work.
00:49:39.000If you have to push through certain work things, instead of getting up and getting another cup of coffee, figure out what the fuck you're doing.
00:49:46.000Figure out what's this problem you're working on.
00:49:58.000I start in the gym every morning, and whatever happens in the gym, it humbles me, it gives me some kind of energy, and I bring that throughout the day.
00:50:11.000Well, I've done martial arts since I was a little kid, but I think there's something that is inescapable, in my life at least, and that is that there is no disconnect between the mind and the body.
00:50:20.000That they're all one thing, and that you can work them individually, but not really.
00:50:26.000Because when you are working your body, you need the mind to do that.
00:50:29.000The intensity of my workouts is one of the most important aspects of it, and that's fueled 100% by my mind.
00:51:46.000I won the fight, but I was like, whoa.
00:51:48.000I feel like I can do anything now and so now I keep sparring and I keep fighting because if I can be composed in the ring with someone trying to kill me then I can be composed on a podcast or in a meeting or in some negotiation.
00:53:17.000You got to go take them to see some mountains and you got to go make sure that they go down something that's a little bit too steep every single time.
00:53:24.000Because I think you build some resilience when you get down something like that and you turn around and say, well, I did that.
00:55:19.000If you go back to Washington, you decide with your congressional campaign it's all going to happen, you are going to slow down when you speak.
00:55:28.000Yeah, like you can hear your periods and commas.
00:56:08.000I really believe in Joe as the guy that's like, alright, the crazies trust him and then he can get them to think about things from a different perspective.
00:56:57.000We need so much more of that in this country right now.
00:57:01.000I mean, we're not going to do things if we don't start listening to each other.
00:57:05.000I don't usually identify as left as people call me that, but it's like your content on the show galvanizes cats from all around the world.
00:57:13.000Well, I don't identify as left either, but I do when it comes to so many issues.
00:57:19.000When it comes to gay rights, when it comes to civil rights, when it comes to, just across the board, things that you would automatically consider liberal.
00:58:26.000We have some countries doing experiments with that right now, though they're different than us culturally, and I think culturally is part of it.
00:58:33.000Well, America is just so based on competition.
00:58:36.000Competition is so powerful over here, and I think that's good, and I also think that's bad, because ultimately it's like...
00:58:44.000If you could grab Trump and get him on mushrooms and let it explain, just somehow or another let the universe explain to him, this is a temporary experience.
00:58:55.000You're trying to gather up all this money and gather up all these resources and gather up all this influence when this is all fleeting.
00:59:04.000It's sand that slips between your fingers.
00:59:06.000There's no way you can grasp it for real.
00:59:08.000The real experience is the shared moments that we have with each other.
00:59:13.000And the more we can enhance that for the people around us, the more you can use your power to enhance people's perspective, change people's way of interfacing with this world that we live in, and I recognize that we're all just living together.
00:59:34.000We're all just a part of this community.
00:59:36.000This competition thing, most of the competition is with yourself.
01:01:29.000I mean, the fuel that you get, the information that you get from the internet, that is fuel for your mind.
01:01:34.000And whether you get it in the form of actual food or whether you get it in the form of information, these are both very critical things that you need a wide variety of different sources for.
01:01:46.000But you're bringing up a good point, even just let's say food delivery, right?
01:01:50.000It started off, you would call the restaurants and it was difficult.
01:01:53.000You had to save the menu from every restaurant.
01:01:55.000Then Seamless comes around and they're like, all right, we're putting all the menus on here and we're just helping facilitate you get things from the restaurant.
01:02:02.000But it wasn't like for restaurants, we didn't necessarily like Seamless because then you had to have your own delivery workforce.
01:02:08.000They took a big cut of what you were making and a lot of restaurants, they didn't even break even using Seamless.
01:02:15.000So then like places like Caviar came around and Postmates came around and they supply the service, the delivery people, the consumer pays more for the delivery and the restaurant makes their money.
01:02:25.000And it's like, whoa, now that actually created competition between delivery services.
01:02:58.000A lot of slip and fall in your own apartment cases from those fucking menus, man.
01:03:02.000Look at what's happened through the internet in terms of people not drinking and driving because of Uber.
01:03:08.000That's changed the way people get around.
01:03:10.000If I went to high school with Uber, bro, I would have been good.
01:03:13.000When we're in front of the Comedy Store, Lyft is blocking the goddamn driveway to the Comedy Store nine out of ten times when you're allowed to leave.
01:04:38.000And the only concern that I have about that, though, is that, you know, ultimately we want people to not just be digital consumers, but to be digital creators.
01:05:05.000And I hope on a going-forward basis, we're going to fix this internet situation with net neutrality, and we are also going to diversify the universe of people who build things for our online world.
01:05:14.000Well, we really see that in the podcast world.
01:05:17.000The podcast world is extremely diverse.
01:05:36.000Food is actually, you know, when I was working on this net neutrality issue, I worked with the Today Show, and they wanted to find someone who built a business online.
01:05:45.000And they spent time with this woman, I think it was Laura's Kitchen, you know, and she had basically started just putting videos on YouTube, showing herself and how she was cooking.
01:05:54.000And then, you know, that morphed over time into a book and a big empire, and she built something from it.
01:06:00.000And it's amazing if you look at how much cooking has evolved from just hobby online to actual business.
01:06:10.000Like, I mean, for younger people listening, they're probably just like, guys, we know, like the internet, like everything, it's undoubted everything happens on the internet.
01:06:33.000I think when we break into regulation or deregulation, we lose the point.
01:06:37.000The point is you just want a little oversight to make sure it's fair and open to all.
01:06:41.000Yeah, an equal playing ground in that everybody's allowed to come to this thing.
01:06:44.000And recognize it as the important resource that it is.
01:06:47.000The ability to distribute information is critical to changing the culture.
01:06:51.000The way we interface with each other, the way we talk, the experiences that we share, the way we have access to all these new ideas and information, it's just shifting things at this radical rate.
01:07:20.000It's hard to imagine that that's going to stick.
01:07:24.000But with this administration, it's not stunning because it seems like net neutrality being dissolved favors these big businesses that would like to maximize their profits.
01:07:34.000In many ways, net neutrality is the ultimate populist issue, right?
01:08:13.000You're going to have to work with your running mate on that.
01:08:17.000So this situation that we're in right now, are you confident that there's real potential for it to be reversed?
01:08:28.000I am optimistic that the American public are awoke.
01:08:33.000And they're paying attention now, and they're making a ruckus.
01:08:36.000I mean, we had millions of people write us at the FCC. When I got appointed to the FCC, I didn't think millions of people knew what the FCC was.
01:08:44.000I think that's extraordinary, and I'm not ready to give up.
01:08:48.000Well, the last time the FCC was in the mainstream news is when you guys were fining Howard Stern.
01:08:56.000That was also during the George Bush administration.
01:08:59.000How'd you get to the FCC? So before I was appointed, I served as counsel to the Senate Commerce Committee.
01:09:09.000And I worked there for Senator Rockefeller for a long time and for Senator Inouye before that.
01:09:16.000And so I got like a front row seat at a whole bunch of digital issues with how we deal with our wireless spectrum, how we change our television technology.
01:09:27.000So, you know, a real kind of nerdy Washington thing, but also a new way to see how everything is changing in our economy because of digitization.
01:09:37.000What's your thoughts on cryptocurrencies?
01:09:39.000You know, so I have no special authority on this, except that a microphone's in front of me.
01:09:51.000I'm less interested in cryptocurrencies than I am in blockchain, which is the ledger that they use to record exchanges in cryptocurrency.
01:10:02.000It's anonymous, and it can be used by anyone.
01:10:07.000It's extremely low cost, and I think there are open questions about how you can make government and a lot of business services more efficient using blockchain that I think are really interesting and have yet to be explored.
01:10:28.000Say there's some kind of, you export fruit.
01:10:32.000Someone puts a bag of that fruit on the table and they say, well, we know that there are certain fields that fruit comes from.
01:10:37.000You know, there might be a disease in it.
01:10:39.000How can you figure out how that fruit got here from the field?
01:10:42.000You know, you can go back through your supply chain and call everyone, get them to tell you how long it sat over here and who held it and put it in the truck.
01:10:51.000The question is, if you can come up with a digital way where everyone as a collective just contributes to that along the way, can that be low cost, more efficient, and more effective?
01:11:00.000I think it will change supply chain economics in a really big way.
01:11:05.000And we don't fully understand the consequences for our economy yet, but I think it's coming.
01:12:02.000And that's probably because I don't own any Bitcoin.
01:12:04.000I know people also in journalism have been talking about keeping articles on blockchain so they, like, internet articles don't go anywhere, you know, because people can just erase a website, like a website goes out of business, then all the articles on that website are gone.
01:12:19.000So some people are putting websites on blockchain.
01:12:22.000Actually, figuring out how we maintain our history in this digital world is actually, it's a real thing.
01:13:04.000And make it more convenient for people.
01:13:06.000But then the thought is, well, if they're so stupid, lazy, they can't make their way to a voting booth, do we really want their opinion to be expressed?
01:13:13.000I think the busiest people need voting on the internet.
01:13:16.000When we talk about politics, just let us non-politicians talk mad shit.
01:14:25.000Yeah, I mean, like, if you live in Florida, I remember when I was trying to vote in Florida, like, the polling stations were in churches, and I'd go, and it was an uncomfortable thing to go to a church where I'm pretty much the only Chinese guy voting.
01:14:38.000You know, a lot of people say really wild things to you online, like, when you're waiting to vote, and I'm like, I would have loved to vote online.
01:15:06.000People just say things to you in a voting line, and I'm like, this discourages a lot of people that may have a minority opinion in their neighborhood.
01:15:14.000I think you should have some sort of an understanding about what you're voting for, too.
01:15:18.000I mean, I would like voting to be much easier, but I would also like there to be some accountability.
01:15:24.000Like you should know what you're actually voting.
01:15:27.000Maybe there should be like some sort of a quick online poll or some sort of a quick Like, can you spell this candidate's name?
01:15:34.000You know, I think that violates the Constitution, so I'm just gonna say that.
01:16:04.000If you could answer what you're voting, if you understand it.
01:16:08.000Maybe there's some sort of an amendment that's being passed or something that's being passed where you don't understand exactly what you're getting into.
01:16:17.000And maybe there should be a way that we find out if you understand it.
01:16:22.000I know that you have the good intentions for it, but I read these cases that once you have a test for people to vote, I mean, the powers that be, I mean, look at gerrymandering, you know, like, it's anytime you introduce that, it, it always sets like the populace back.
01:16:37.000But I do, I do really connect with Joe's sentiment, which is like, a lot of people voting aren't aren't actually participating consciously in the process.
01:16:48.000Yeah, I mean, listen, I think being a citizen is a job.
01:16:50.000You actually have to spend some time and, you know, think about what you're authorizing for the world, what the future is going to look like and how you're going to participate in shaping it merely by voting.
01:17:01.000I think it's a real job and I think more people are aware of that now than they used to be.
01:17:06.000It's also, there's so much to pay attention to.
01:17:10.000When the elections come around and you just realize all the different things that are up, and you just go over all the different issues and all the different possibilities, and you're like, oh, God.
01:20:11.000Yeah, that's what I want most people to escape.
01:20:13.000I want them to escape the grind of having to be somewhere because someone tells you you have to.
01:20:18.000Having to do something because someone tells you you have to do it.
01:20:21.000Getting a small amount of money while other people make more.
01:20:25.000I think, though, the economy is changing.
01:20:27.000I mean, it used to be that there was an employer with many employees.
01:20:33.000I think, increasingly, we're all going to be the employee with many employers, and that we're going to have a web of contracts and activities that we use to sustain ourselves economically over time.
01:20:46.000I think you saw that developing, the internet and the new platforms that are coming aboard.
01:20:53.000There's consequences of that for healthcare and other issues that I don't think we've fully tackled.
01:20:58.000But I think that there is change coming.
01:21:00.000That lifetime employment and preparing for it with a single degree out of high school is, I think, something that is going to look like a historical moment more than the future.
01:21:10.000You know, there's the Johnny Naysayers out there that I always get frustrated by.
01:21:14.000They're like, yeah, man, not everybody can do that.
01:21:17.000Not everybody can work for themselves.
01:21:40.000It's a real need that a lot of people have.
01:21:43.000That comfort and security and knowing that your bills are going to be paid and everything's going to be taken care of, that's hard for people to shake off.
01:21:52.000Yeah, comfort's also a huge weakness, I think, at times.
01:22:55.000And I just tell everyone at the tables, I'm like, professional gambling, that's what we're here for.
01:23:00.000Like, if you hit on 17, then always hit on 17. If you hit on 16, then, or if you stay on 16, stay on 16. But I'm like, let's practice professional gambling.
01:23:10.000Professional gambling is not hit on 17 though, right?