On this episode of the podcast, the brother and sister duo of the sit down with Cam Haynes. We talk about what it's like being 50 years old and doing what you did when you were 20 years old. We also talk about how to deal with injuries and how to stay injury free when it comes to training and eating right. Cam and I talk about his struggles with injuries, how he deals with them, and what he does to stay healthy and injury free in order to be the best he can be at whatever he s doing. If you like the podcast and/or want to support it, please HIT SUBSCRIBE and leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts and other Podcasting Platforms! Thanks for listening and Happy Holidays! Cheers, EJ & JP! -Your Hosts: & EJ P.S. Please don t forget to rate and review the podcast if you enjoyed this episode and/if you like what you re listening to this podcast, please leave a review and tell a friend about it! if you re a fellow podcast listener! I ll be looking for more content like this one in the future episodes! Thanks again EJ and JP! <3. -Jon and EJ! <3 Jon & Ej - EJ . Jon Cam Ej & EJR Chris Tim Chad Ben Eric Jamie Jared Rick Jason Jack Joe Jake Matt Kacie Sam Mike Sarah James Justin Daniel Alex Ryan Chacho John Evan Michael Dan Chet Patrick Tyler Emily Andrew Kevin Julian Canfield Will Jordan Kieran Adam And much more! Thank you for listening to the podcast I hope you enjoy it? Don't forget to leave us some love and support us in the podcast! Love ya'll can we have a review? - Thank you so much love ya'll give us some more love & support you'll see you guys a review on the next episode! & I'll be back next week!
00:00:58.000But you were saying before that when you were 20, you're 50 now, but when you were 20, you could never do what you could do now when you were 50. No.
00:01:04.000So if you tried to do what you do now at 50 when you were 20, wouldn't it be overtraining?
00:02:42.000If I'm at home, I would never take any time off.
00:02:45.000But when I'm hunting, because that's what I'm there for.
00:02:48.000Right, but when you're hunting, at least you're hiking, and there's a lot of physical activity, and there's a lot going on there.
00:02:53.000But when I watch your videos, those Instagram videos of you guys, okay, we're going to do 100 reps of this, and we're going to do 100 reps of that.
00:03:28.000I'm banged up a little bit, but I've talked to you before where I've had to take Advil every day, and not anymore.
00:03:36.000Well, tell that story, because that's a crazy story.
00:03:39.000And I've talked about it on the podcast without you being here, but I called you after Rhonda Patrick did a podcast with me, and she was telling me about the dangers of what they call non-steroidal anti-inflammatories.
00:03:52.000And she was saying it ruins your gut biome, and that it actually causes inflammation.
00:03:58.000And so the people that are taking Advil every day for inflammation don't even realize that taking all that Advil actually is causing inflammation.
00:04:08.000And then I wasn't, and I almost think it was maybe placebo a little bit because it's like, not only did it not help after a while, but it made it worse, essentially, the inflammation.
00:04:19.000So after hearing that and, you know, who's ever going to question Rhonda Patrick.
00:06:15.000I don't want people to go and try to do that right out of the gate and then get hurt.
00:06:21.000I think that's what frustrates people more than anything is when they're excited to make a lifestyle change and then something happens and then they get hurt.
00:06:29.000Yeah, I was doing chin-ups three or four times a week.
00:06:34.000I decided I was going to do 50 chin-ups at least three or four times a week.
00:06:40.000Just make sure I did them all the time.
00:06:42.000And then on top of that, I was doing heavy cleans, 90-pound cleans with kettlebells, cleans, and presses.
00:06:48.000I started getting this whole nagging elbow pain.
00:08:48.000For me, those are the ones that I am drawn to.
00:08:51.000And I find myself, I see the negative, and I go past all these positive, and then I'll say something because just if I'm in a bad mood, after a whole day of getting beat down by Stupid comments, so I'll have to do something, and then I'll be like, why did I... So then I go back and I'll try to acknowledge some positive ones,
00:09:37.000That is the one animal that I think people have the most distorted perceptions of because of teddy bears and because of yogi and because I really want to take anybody who has these weird thoughts about bears.
00:09:48.000I just really want to bring them to John and Jen's place in Alberta.
00:13:56.000And I did the commercial with the wolf, too, which was amazing.
00:14:00.000Well, that Under Armour commercial you told me was pretty crazy because they had this scene where the wolf snarls and they had to save that scene for the very end.
00:14:12.000They said, you know, it was supposed to be me against a wolf going after this elk and then I ended up winning that little the story as it was told and they needed to get the wolf snarling and so they brought some meat out gave it some meat but they said well Actually gave it,
00:14:50.000i think it shows at the end it should yeah yeah and that was actually i mean people thought that that was edited and it wasn't you know right there with me no it was right there with me um you know they did a great job of putting that commercial together uh it wasn't necessarily snarling at me or growling at me but it was there it was it was fun how big was that wolf I think it was about 130 pounds.
00:15:23.000And I think, you know, we were talking about earlier, as far as endurance goes, wolves, I believe, are the number one animal out there, as far as they can run miles and miles and miles, and they're tall, and they can just, you know, their gait is, you know, whatever, it allows them to go for hours and miles.
00:15:40.000Yeah, I was talking about running with my dog, and he's only a year old, and he's in such good shape now, because he runs with me all the time.
00:15:48.000See, if we run two miles, I run two miles.
00:15:51.000He runs seven or eight, because he's running up and back and up and back and up and back.
00:15:56.000But it's amazing how good a shape they're in right out of the box.
00:16:10.000Yeah, animals, you know, animals pretty much have the advantage over us on everything other than, you know, I mean, they're stronger, stronger jaws.
00:16:20.000You know, their muscles stronger for what they have.
00:16:28.000Advantage over most animals potential endurance like elk, but don't luckily we have you know, we can use our minds Well, that is the reason why we're so weak.
00:16:38.000It's so fascinating how things balance out.
00:16:40.000It's like us using our mind, creating houses and cities and cars and just sitting in a chair all day.
00:16:48.000It makes you soft, but then you figure out how to make a gun.
00:17:01.000Yeah, all these people that are, you know, We're good to go.
00:17:27.000I'm like, you guys are selling a wolf rug?
00:17:29.000And the guy explained to me, he said, well, these wolves are all shot by the government in Alaska because they're overpopulated.
00:17:38.000So they're in these areas where they're trying to protect the moose population for the indigenous people that are subsistence hunters and live up there.
00:17:46.000They have like a certain quota and he's like so it's actually like it's a good thing to sell these rugs because they're gonna shoot these wolves no matter what they're trying to keep the populations in check and I think that's that's something that these people that have that because see the problem with like celebrities was like they probably didn't think that shit through at all they just think this is a cool thing to be a part of of course everybody wants wolves to live I'll just go and say we've got to support the wolf we got to save the wolf yeah And so it looks like a cool thing for you to be a
00:19:15.000I mean, and I'm sure you get messages every day from people who have never hunted, who are interested in it, who just want to know what the lifestyle is.
00:19:23.000We've sort of romanticized the lifestyle and it's easy to do because it's the mountains and the mountains are, you know, you get that connection and you get that empowerment.
00:19:34.000So I think we are kind of turning the tide a little bit.
00:19:40.000A while back, maybe four or five months ago, who was a vegan for a long time, started listening to the podcast, at first was upset about the talk about hunting, ran into some health issues.
00:19:51.000His doctor recommended he start eating animal products again.
00:19:54.000Started with eggs, worked his way back up to meat, ate meat again, was getting, you know, healthy, grass-fed, you know, ethically sustained animals, ethically raised animals.
00:20:18.000Part of the journey of him going full circle was listening to people talk about it on the podcast and realizing this idea that he had in his head that these people that are out there hunting are all people that hate animals and they're cruel and they're just rednecks that are going out there drinking beer and shooting these animals and laughing and hooting and hollering about it.
00:20:38.000You know, well, there's a couple points I want to make there.
00:20:42.000One of them is, your podcast has been amazing for the education part, and I mentioned this, Adam and I did a podcast with the Gritty Bowman, and I said, you know, Joe's podcast, just because the type of person Joe is,
00:20:57.000as far as being open-minded and giving everything a chance, not coming in with biases, are the same type of listeners you have, you've kind of cultivated, or You know, they like you because, I don't know, they see themselves in you maybe.
00:21:11.000But anyway, so those people have come in and listened to these podcasts like this without that bias.
00:21:19.000When you listen to it and listen to us talk about it, it's not the redneck, you know, laughing because they're killing things, the person they may have thought.
00:21:27.000It's, you know, this whole thing, this whole thing we talk about.
00:21:29.000And so this podcast in particular has, I think, been a huge tool as far as promoting hunting and ethical hunting and Just the empowerment of being a hunter.
00:21:41.000And so that, I don't know, just this venue, I don't know.
00:21:46.000I don't know if we could have ever done that without, you know, the Joe Rogan podcast.
00:23:01.000There's things that women sweat when it comes to houses that dudes just don't sweat.
00:23:05.000But for me, a big one was I tried a tank a couple of times at this place called Soothing Solutions in Burbank.
00:23:11.000I don't even know if it's around anymore.
00:23:14.000And then I put a tank in my basement, and then I started ranting and raving about it, and doing these YouTube videos about it, and then I got a new tank from the float lab, so I gave my old tank away online.
00:23:24.000I had like a raffle, not a raffle, but like a random draw.
00:23:30.000I gave an email address out, and I'll just pick a random person.
00:23:33.000So I literally just scrolled through my email.
00:23:35.000I'm like, bang, right there, and picked this guy out, and sent my tank to him, and had it set up, and sent the salt down to him, and the whole deal.
00:23:43.000And then that alone, just having that contest and giving away a tank.
00:23:47.000And then putting together this video for the tank.
00:23:51.000Red Band put together this really cool video about it.
00:23:54.000So these tank centers, because me talking about it on the podcast, started opening up all over the world.
00:23:58.000To the point where now, when you sign up at a lot of tank centers, the first time you go there, they say, how'd you hear about us?
00:24:03.000Whether it was through the internet, through books, or Joe Rogan.
00:27:52.000And I think if you are a vegan, you should consider supplementing with things that you don't have a problem with eating, like maybe even some cricket protein or mollusks, like shellfish.
00:29:16.000You know, the biases that come with it is what causes problems.
00:29:20.000Well, they're doing what they think is good to shame people who eat meat or attack people who eat meat and especially attack people who actively go out and kill the animals themselves because they think that somehow or another it will lessen the amount of animals that are killed.
00:30:39.000They're trying to kill wolves as much as possible.
00:30:41.000You can kill 100 wolves a day if you can, and that's totally legal.
00:30:44.000Because they have ranchers up there, and I think one of his neighbors, a wolf, it was in the middle of the winter, a wolf got a hold of one of the cows, a bunch of wolves, a pack.
00:30:54.000So these people are in their house, and they're listening to a pack of wolves tear apart a cow that's like 100 yards from their fucking bed.
00:31:48.000They were opposed to grizzly bear hunting.
00:31:50.000But I think if you're going to have any kind of a poll like that, you should have to have these people educated first as to what they're voting about.
00:32:00.000Do you really understand what it's like up there?
00:33:16.000But if you just go on a six-hour car ride, just keep going north, keep going north, get out of your car, and I want you to go for a two-mile hike into the woods.
00:33:26.000Just go for a two-mile hike, and I want you to sit there for a day.
00:34:39.000And it's like, No, we've always hunted.
00:34:42.000It's just now that people are saying, well, we shouldn't hunt.
00:34:45.000So they're trying to take man out of the equation now.
00:34:47.000Man's always been in the equation as far as hunting.
00:34:49.000Yeah, I think people have an idea about it based on the excess that people have committed.
00:34:55.000I mean, people have committed some atrocities when it comes to animals in this country alone.
00:34:59.000Everyone's seen those stacks of buffalo heads and Yeah.
00:35:20.000And so, you know, you weren't, like, getting steaks and freezing them, and there was not a lot of, like, large-scale agriculture back then, either.
00:35:27.000There was a few ranchers and farmers, but when people had all these animals that were out in the wild, and they could hire these people that were in the military that had just gotten done with the war, and they were good shots, this would be a good way to make a living.
00:35:49.000They'd take the hides, and sometimes they would take the meat, and then they wiped out almost everything.
00:35:56.000They wiped out most of the deer, most of the elk, most of the antelope, until guys like Teddy Roosevelt came along and went, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hit the fucking brakes!
00:36:09.000We've got to set up private, or public land, rather, where you can't do anything to it, where people could just...
00:36:16.000Roam and hike and camp and fish and hunt and do whatever you want.
00:36:20.000And we've got to make sure we protect these animal populations because they got down to some incredibly low number of elk at the turn of the century, right?
00:36:28.000Yeah, well, I mean, they almost wiped out buffalo completely.
00:36:31.000I don't know what the elk got to, but I know, you know, as conservationists, we like to say that hunters are conservationists now, but...
00:36:39.000So one of the figures that we share is that there's more animals now than there was a hundred years ago.
00:36:46.000So I don't know what they were a hundred years ago, what the numbers were, but yeah, very low.
00:36:51.000Not only that, there's more white-tailed deer today than when Columbus landed.
00:36:55.000Although Columbus didn't really get here.
00:36:58.000When Columbus landed in the Bahamas, there's more white-tailed deer here than now.
00:37:04.000And part of that is because of farming, which is real weird.
00:37:08.000Like a white-tailed deer is a weird animal.
00:37:11.000They're kind of a farm animal in a lot of a way.
00:37:49.000Okay, it says the elk population in North America stood at about 10 million animals before European settlers came and systematic wholesale hunting began.
00:39:16.000I wouldn't do it, but it's illegal anyway.
00:39:18.000If you walk down the street, if you eat steak, and you walk down the street, and you saw, like, for some reason, someone had put coolers of prime rib eyes just sitting there, you'd be like, what the fuck is this here for?
00:39:33.000You'd look around, is there anybody here?
00:40:54.000But when you buy it at a store, whatever.
00:40:57.000I'm not saying people are putting 40% of prime rib in the garbage, but just as a rule, we waste a lot of food.
00:41:05.000I think it would be a good thing for every single human being to grow some vegetables, and if you eat meat, once in your life, kill an animal.
00:42:11.000But when you think of it like that, I mean, so when we're looking at this picture, I know people listening to the podcast can't see the picture, but I mean...
00:42:19.000We're looking at an enormous warehouse.
00:42:47.000And I think when you look at that, but people don't see that they don't think about that when they order their, you know, chick chicken nuggets.
00:47:54.000I think we have and I think it's important to relay experiences because I think there's things to be learned From a lot of experiences, you know, like talking to you and talking to Courtney Dolwalter about just ultra marathons and endurance running.
00:48:13.000There's something to be learned from that about the kind of mindset that it takes to do that.
00:48:17.000I think having these conversations with you guys has changed the way I look at those things.
00:48:22.000Like, fuck, man, before I met you, I never ran.
00:51:29.000I don't know what they're dealing with.
00:51:31.000I just know that, you know, social media can be used.
00:51:35.000It can be irritating sometimes, but man, it can be good, especially for people like that, just able to reach out and maybe, you know, get some support or encouragement or something.
00:52:45.000And it just breaks my heart to think that...
00:52:50.000He would get to that point where killing himself was the answer.
00:52:56.000It's even harder for younger people because they don't have a lot of life experiences and they don't know that a guy like you or I who's lived a long time and have seen a lot of shit, you've gone through your ups and downs and when you hit a down you go, well...
00:53:11.000This sucks, but I know it's gonna get better.
00:53:51.000But when you get older, and you've had more life experiences and more things, you get more perspective, and you kind of understand, like, what this feeling is, this bad feeling, and you just know, well, hey, I just gotta get the fuck out of the house, I gotta go hang out with my friends, I gotta go do a bunch of positive things, go hit the gym, take a yoga class,
00:54:07.000do something fun, and then everything's gonna be okay.
00:54:10.000You realize, hey, you know, Life's not perfect.
00:54:14.000There's no such thing as a perfect life.
00:54:52.000So you're like, that even makes it worse, they can.
00:54:55.000So, I mean, that's where I see the positives of social media.
00:54:58.000And I wish I could respond to everybody who sends me messages and just say, hey, you know, and it's cliche, keep hammering or whatever, but I know I get inspiration from people online.
00:56:25.000But sometimes life gives you these lessons in the form of disastrous lives that you witness.
00:56:32.000And you see these disastrous lives and you just go, oh my god, I gotta get the fuck away from this crazy asshole and live my life in a more positive, productive way because I see what can happen if you blame the world for all your problems and all you do is hate and you hate on people that are successful and you hate on people that are...
00:57:06.000But what you can do is see what they're doing that's so negative and Just completely degrades the quality of their life and just don't do that.
00:58:15.000That's probably derived from war and I get that it's not like a war or anything like that but it's going through a mini battle and when you do that with somebody and you share that experience you get that connection and it's like and it's why even though I don't know Courtney that well I know What she does.
00:58:34.000And I really look up to her ability to just be a beast.
00:58:39.000And that whole environment, the ultra running environment and community is empowering for me for sure.
00:58:47.000And that's why I love even just being around people like that.
00:59:26.000I mean, my brother was with me on that last one.
00:59:30.000And it's weird to share an experience like that with somebody because you can be similar, but in the course of something like three days like that, you're in low points at different times.
00:59:48.000It's really hard to win each of those battles because at one time when you might, I don't know, it's just, it seems like that'd be easier, and I think in some respects it is, but it's, man, it's tough.
01:01:23.000You know, on Moab, that one started off and I felt terrible right out of the, I mean, I felt, I was like, we were, God, I don't want to think, like 19 or maybe 15 miles in, something like that at an aid station.
01:01:58.000I just, I was like, I wanted to be fresh and I wanted to feel light on my feet and I wanted to get out there.
01:02:05.000And I was like, it's not a good sign when I didn't because, you know, we just essentially started the race and it was hot and I had run out of water already one time.
01:02:17.000And my legs felt heavy, and so it wasn't looking good.
01:02:23.000And then Courtney was way out ahead, and they were saying...
01:02:27.000I didn't really know who she was at that time, so me and my brother Taylor, we were thinking, well, in the 70s would win the race.
01:02:37.000So I thought, well, I want to go out and aim for finishing in the 70s.
01:03:24.000I was like, oh, well, they just went too fast, you know, because I'd done that before, like a Bigfoot the year before, and I thought, well, they'll come back, you know, so meaning we'd catch up or they'd come back.
01:03:37.000And I think the guys with her ended up dropping off a little bit, and then she never came back.
01:03:44.000Well, one of them dropped out totally.
01:03:45.000He tried to keep up with her, and he couldn't, and he wound up dropping out totally.
01:05:26.000You know, you see some of these track athletes, and they got the tight little shorts on, and the singlet, and they're like, you know, she's just like, with kind of a baggy shirt and baggy shorts, and then just crushing people.
01:06:18.000I love someone who doesn't make any sense, who's just so much better, and it's just like, wow, we gotta fucking throw a monkey wrench into this whole idea.
01:06:26.000The only thing I got on anybody is, can they pack out an elk?
01:06:32.000If that was the race, you'd fuck them all up.
01:06:35.000But what I like about her also is I flew home the other day.
01:06:39.000I can't remember where it was from, but I flew over.
01:06:42.000In the Cascades of Oregon, there's a Middle Sister, North Sister, South Sister, and then Bachelors where everybody goes and skis, and then Broken Tops right there.
01:07:16.000I mean, I guess that kind of goes hand in hand with the eating whatever you want is also doing whatever you want.
01:07:22.000You know, like a lot of these elite athletes, they would be like, have a schedule of races and my training and this and that, you know, whatever.
01:07:31.000I like that she would just say, yeah, I'll do that.
01:08:54.000With rocks in that type of country, super steep, it's part of it.
01:08:59.000It's fascinating to me that that is the appeal of sheep hunting to a lot of people, is that it's so incredibly dangerous.
01:09:05.000That being up in those high peaks and stepping on shale and on these crazy peaks where to the left is just a steep drop-off, to the right is a steep drop-off.
01:09:17.000You have a very narrow place to navigate.
01:09:20.000Yeah, it's, you know, sheep hunting, they say it's not the animal that's the most wary, it's just the country that makes it.
01:09:30.000So, I mean, they're expensive, the hunts, but it's just where they live is the draw.
01:09:40.000I think with the bow, definitely a tough animal.
01:09:44.000With a rifle, mostly it's just kind of getting in, if you can get your body within range, you can usually get one done.
01:14:25.000That guy still has unbelievable potential.
01:14:28.000If he could get it together, but what he needs to do, and this is critical, He needs to work on his ground game, needs to work on his wrestling, and he needs to be with a real top-flight MMA camp.
01:14:48.000But the guy's done an amazing job of building his skills up in five years.
01:14:53.000And the thing is, Francis is so goddamn good that most people he spars with, most people he fights with are fucked.
01:15:02.000But he runs to the top of the food chain, a guy like Stipe, Stipe can avoid all the dangerous stuff, drag him into deep water, get him diminished, diminish his endurance and his ability, and then overwhelm him, which is what Stipe did.
01:15:33.000But I don't know how hard he was pushed.
01:15:36.000So there's a difference between working hard and being pushed.
01:15:39.000If he's training with a guy like Cain Velasquez, for instance, prime time Cain Velasquez, if Cain's in his prime, Cain's taking him down left and right.
01:15:47.000He's going to try to have to get up all the time.
01:20:54.000I didn't think it was a bad decision, but I thought it was a very close fight.
01:20:59.000It's hard for me calling fights because when I'm calling them, I'm just looking at what's happening, I'm trying to talk, but I'm not scoring it.
01:21:10.000If you score, you've got to keep your mouth shut.
01:21:12.000You should have a piece of paper in front of you.
01:21:15.000Eddie Bravo used to do it for the UFC. He used to score in between rounds, and he had a great system where he would put a line down the center of a paper, and it would be one opponent on the left side and the other one on the right side, and then he would write down kicks, takedowns,
01:21:31.000submission attempts, and all that stuff, and then defense.
01:21:34.000Those are little categories, and they would put check marks next to one.
01:21:38.000And then he would go over why he thought someone won and what kind of score he gave.
01:22:09.000It was a bad matchup, because that girl, I believe that was her UFC debut.
01:22:15.000So, to have a UFC debut against a woman who's fought for the title against a world-class striker, I mean, literally one of the very best strikers on the planet Earth, male or female.
01:23:17.000It'll be interesting to see if it changes at all.
01:23:22.000Yeah, it will definitely be interesting.
01:23:24.000And coming into this fight was fascinating to me.
01:23:27.000Even though Rose won by first round knockout, she's the underdog.
01:23:30.000Yeah, well, I put up that clip of when she was saying the Lord's Prayer there, when you were up there and you were talking about how it was terrifying or something like that.
01:27:14.000Keep saying Tompkins because of Sean Tompkins, but Wonderboy is doing things from a sideways karate stance that a lot of people just don't know how to handle.
01:27:27.000Wonderboy has these crazy front leg sidekicks and front leg roundhouse kicks.
01:27:31.000Have you ever watched his fight with Johnny Hendrix?
01:27:36.000He hits Johnny Hendrix in the gut with a sidekick, and then Johnny Hendrix is still there, so he roundhouse kicks him in the face with the same leg, and you see Johnny's like, what in the fuck?
01:27:45.000Because it's just something like, he didn't see that in training.
01:28:16.000And so these techniques, like, he's...
01:28:19.000Exceptionally good at those karate techniques, and a lot of people aren't.
01:28:24.000And so with Muay Thai, most of the time when guys were learning Muay Thai and bringing it into MMA, they were doing a few things.
01:28:32.000They were throwing the leg kicks, they were throwing the knees to the body, the elbows, normal Muay Thai techniques.
01:28:37.000But they were missing some of the subtleties.
01:28:39.000So some of the better Muay Thai fighters started training with some of the better MMA fighters, and then slowly but surely those techniques started leaking in.
01:28:46.000And then the big one now is that low leg kick.
01:29:19.000It's amazing how many fighters, like Gilbert Melendez, when he fought Jeremy Stevens, Jeremy Stevens cracked him real early in the first round with that low leg kick, and you see it immediately swelling up.
01:29:31.000And then Gilbert's just falling down on it.
01:32:34.000Hey, and then also this weekend, the Secretary of the Interior, Zinke, on Friday is going to announce a big, I think it's a big win for conservationists, and we're going to protect the winter migration routes for deer and elk from development.
01:32:56.000So that's been a big thing that I told them when I met with them back in Vegas, I don't know when it was, a couple weeks ago, that it feels like We've taken some hits as sportsmen as far as the national monuments being shrunk,
01:33:13.000you know, and you can argue that both ways.
01:33:16.000Drilling on the coast, you know, a lot of people don't like the prospects of that.
01:33:21.000So I'm like, man, we could use a wind and brought up the winter migration routes and protecting those from any development just so those animals can get down and get to the winter range.
01:33:32.000When food's hard to come by, and so that's going to be announced on Friday that he's going to make that happen.
01:33:46.000I'm on the International Wildlife Conservation Council, which doesn't have anything to do with North America, but I'm just kind of using that as an excuse to talk about North America.
01:33:58.000It doesn't have anything to do with North America?
01:35:13.000Okay, you can't, we can't say conservation hunting as a conservation tool doesn't help any other animals, because we've proven here in North America, it's that it's a model that works.
01:35:23.000So I didn't like how he worded that and lumped that on together.
01:35:26.000And I'm like, was that I was Was that just a poorly worded tweet?
01:35:32.000So then he said he was going to look at that ban regarding elephants because, you know, if there's no value on the animals, we know what happens.
01:35:42.000And if there is no hunting, it's pretty much the death sentence of the animal.
01:35:46.000Well, we'd probably have to explain that to a lot of people that don't know what we're talking about, but Africa, there's a lot of animals in Africa that were on the verge of extinction just a few decades ago.
01:35:56.000And what they did was, it's a very controversial thing, especially to people that don't hunt, but what they did was they created a lot of these game preserves where they had these animals and they had a financial interest in keeping these animals alive because people paid a lot of money to come over there and hunt them.
01:36:14.000So now these animals that were on the verge of extinction just a couple of decades ago are thriving in record numbers.
01:36:22.000So for people that are concerned about the welfare of these animals and their wildlife lovers, they're in a weird predicament because it's hunting that's keeping these animals alive.
01:36:39.000But even in this country, 11% taxes on bullets, on hunting equipment, on all the different things that people buy.
01:36:47.000And this was a self-imposed tax that sportsmen put on the purchase of these goods so that it would go towards wildlife.
01:36:54.000And billions of dollars, billions of dollars have gone to preserving wetlands, preserving wildlife habitat, reestablishing populations of animals in all these different areas where they're diminished.
01:37:08.000It's like the amount of money that has gone towards conservation from hunters versus from PETA or the Humane Society or any other welfare group, it's not even remotely comparable.
01:39:53.000So when you have those photo safaris that go on the same track, basically you're hammering the habitat.
01:39:57.000You're not getting back to the back reaches where the poachers are killing the animals.
01:40:01.000You know, that's still happening back there.
01:40:03.000And then to get a pride of lion in to where you can take pictures of it, they're still going out and shooting zebras and impala and different things, buffalo, throwing them out there so the lions are there eating.
01:40:15.000So there's still animals dying, but there's just the animals aren't benefiting from it.
01:40:19.000So when you think of like in the bush of Africa, if a farmer there has a crop and there's elephants getting in there thrashing his crop, The elephant has no value to him.
01:41:21.000I like people way more than I like goldfish.
01:41:23.000And with regard to lions, you know, so if lions are coming in and killing the goats or whatever that, say, in Tanzania that they're raising, they're just going to put...
01:42:04.000So the $50,000 per line that they would have made that would have gone towards all sorts of different things, protection of the habitat, the different conservation officers that work in that area, instead, there's no money,
01:42:19.000and then they actually have to hire someone to go and do that job.
01:42:24.000And this is the argument about British Columbia as well, that this is exactly what's going to happen up there.
01:42:29.000The argument that you're getting from the people that are in the field, that are out there every day, is that what's going to have to happen is you're going to have a bunch of problem bearers, and they're going to have to hire people to go after these problem bears, and it's incredibly expensive and very, very dangerous.
01:43:14.000You can take X amount of animals out, and this money will go towards, you know, this enhancement of a waterhole, this Paying for the anti-poaching unit, which when I was over there was $1,000 a day to pay for guys to come in to keep the poachers out of there.
01:43:31.000Without that money, none of that's happening.
01:43:34.000So instead of having a very regulated harvest number, the poachers will kill however many.
01:43:58.000And I've read this article, this ridiculous article that said that that's not true, that trophy hunting is not what sustains these animals, and you can get just as much from a safari.
01:44:21.000God, you know, I mean, we talked about this earlier in the podcast, you know, when people say, oh, you just want to go kill stuff and this and that.
01:44:27.000I didn't really like when whoever the hunter was, I don't know, probably a nice guy, but he shot a crocodile and he says, yeah, mother effer.
01:45:09.000I mean, if he was just by himself and he said that and that was an honest reaction and he still had respect for the animal and it was just the fact that he pulled it off.
01:46:01.000You know, it's better to have 1500, right?
01:46:03.000Yeah, well, it's definitely better for the population of rhinos as a whole, because people don't like the idea of raising something as a commodity, raising wildlife as a commodity.
01:46:13.000Did you ever see the Louis Theroux documentary about wildlife in Africa, about those...
01:46:18.000I forget what it was called, but you can watch it on YouTube.
01:46:22.000That, to me, was a better piece and one of the most...
01:46:26.000Interesting things because Louie is a he's a very smart guy, but he's also a very nice guy Yeah, he just kept asking questions and pestering people and getting to the heart of it But he also showed like these fenced-in lions and they're throwing a dead cow over the top of the fence and the lions are tearing it apart It's fucking crazy.
01:46:43.000I didn't see it, but it's it's weird because the these Lions they're never wild like they're feeding them and then people go over there and hunt them as if it's like a wild lion Yeah, it's it's super weird I couldn't hunt in a fence.
01:48:49.000I'm going to not address that part and just address hunting in general.
01:48:55.000Hunting in general Is what's necessary for the future of animals.
01:49:02.000I mean, until it gets down to a number where maybe the white or black or whatever rhino that is, that's only down to a handful, obviously you're not going to hunt those.
01:49:13.000But by and large, hunting is what keeps these animals, the population viable.
01:49:18.000Well, and then there was also the case of Corey Knowles, who went over there.
01:51:03.000It's a really interesting situation, and people would like it if that wasn't the case.
01:51:10.000They would like it if, no, the money is actually coming from animal welfare groups and from wildlife lovers who just want to see these animals alive.
01:51:18.000The difference is, It's very rare that someone is going to give you $350,000 to keep a rhino alive.
01:51:25.000And so that's a magnified example, but that's pretty much what's happening with all the animals.
01:51:31.000I mean, you're not getting that much money, but you're getting money in exchange for their life, basically, and it's for the betterment of the herd.
01:51:42.000Like I said, very magnified because you're getting a huge amount of money and there's only a few animals, but it's easy to see, hey, killing this one is going to save animals.
01:52:25.000So, I mean, as far as the locals go, I mean, so we...
01:52:30.000Here in America, it feels like, you know, we take up these causes, and it's like, you know, we're the social justice warriors for the world.
01:52:40.000It's like, we ought to probably check in with the people that actually live there, right?
01:52:44.000Yeah, they want you to kill the lions.
01:52:47.000There was an article in the New York Times shortly after the lion, Cecil the lion controversy, it said in Zimbabwe, we did not cry for lions.
01:53:38.000You could look to that example and see how this is a very complex issue.
01:53:44.000Especially, let's take all what Steve Rinella calls the charismatic megafauna out of the equation, like giraffes, which everybody loves.
01:53:52.000I had a whole bit about giraffes in one of my comedy specials, that they're the one animal that you can't say, Like, is not better off in the zoo.
01:55:39.000It's like people will comment, not hunters, obviously, but they'll be on my page and say, well, I don't have a problem if you kill deer and elk, but there's no reason to kill a bear.
01:57:11.000The reality of all this stuff is super complex, and I just do not think you get an understanding of it from, you know, in front of your laptop in Vancouver.
01:57:22.000So what I like is, you know, with regard to, like, this International Wildlife Council or even...
01:57:30.000It just seems like with this administration, and people say good or bad, or mostly bad, it feels like, and that's one thing that I would read CNN, I'd listen to, it's like the same topic.
01:58:43.000And I know that with my voice, because they have trust in me about whatever, even if they agree or don't agree, I'll at least get to share my thoughts.
01:58:51.000And so that's what I did when I talked with Zinky the other day.
01:58:59.000Yeah, that's what, you know, and I've read all these, man, you would think he was the worst, just like Trump, you know, people, you'd think they were Satan to some people.
01:59:10.000But to me, I read the outside magazine article on him, it sounded terrible, and I was like, God, that's not good.
01:59:18.000I read a few other things about him, I'm like, but to me personally, it seemed, would listen, Seemed like somebody who, if we were sitting there talking about something and we came to a decision and it made sense, that's what he seemed like.
01:59:33.000Like a normal, you know, well thought out person.
01:59:36.000Well, I think he's probably got a tremendous amount of pressure on him from a bunch of different angles.
02:00:51.000Politics are different because everybody, like you said, there's pressure from different places, but When I think of a politician, I think special interest groups and these other people that are influencing them, and you're wondering why is this for their own benefit,
02:01:29.000You're going to get at least a more balanced perspective of what the potential hazards are, what's important, what we need to concentrate on.
02:01:38.000You know, I think, regardless of what you think about Trump, what people were excited about, about him as a president, would be that the economy would have an upswing.
02:02:07.000I feel like if I just went down that rabbit hole, I'd be stuck studying the stock market for weeks upon weeks, and I just don't have that kind of time, dude.
02:02:15.000I've got to play techno hunt with cam hands.
02:02:17.000Well, and I like reading stuff like, you know, stock market's at an all-time high.
02:04:01.000Elks still need to be able to get out of the high country, out from where they breed, down when the weather hits, to get down to where the feed is.
02:04:09.000And if there's a bunch of gas rigs in there, I'm not going to be able to do it.
02:04:13.000Do you follow Gritty Bowman on Instagram?
02:08:20.000Generally better over something I care about like archery or running or lifting weights or whatever like that.
02:08:28.000So that's my goal just to, you know, share what's what because I feel like I have a pretty good pulse on what's important to sportsmen and hunters here in North America.
02:11:52.000What Obama did that was excellent was he was very...
02:11:57.000He's composed and articulate and smooth, and he represented a highly educated, like a high level of human being in terms of his intellect and the way he carries himself, and I think that's good for the country.
02:12:13.000But I think, you look at the drone attacks, you look at the attacks on whistleblowers and on the press, and there's a lot of bad shit about the Obama administration that everybody wants to sweep under the rug, because I think nobody's a good president.
02:12:28.000I didn't like how he sort of started a war on cops.
02:12:32.000You remember when he was, you know, crucifying some of the arrests they had and it started, people were looking at cops thinking, are these the good guys or the bad guys?
02:16:25.000And by the way, how the fuck could he even have time to do that when you're writing under the pressure of being the President of the United States?
02:18:20.000Look, the one thing that the military has said, and friends of mine that are in the military, and guys like Tim Kennedy that rejoined, he said that they feel like...
02:19:13.000Well, you need a strong military because the world has some dark places.
02:19:16.000And anybody who doesn't think that you need a strong military, you need to pay attention to what the fuck is going on in Syria, in North Korea, in a lot of parts of the world where there is chaos.
02:19:27.000And this is an entirely real possibility anywhere.
02:19:32.000Anywhere that exists, it can exist here.
02:19:35.000If you see horrible tyranny and destruction and chaos in other parts of the world, the only reason why it's not here is because of geography.
02:19:43.000If they can get there, they can get here.
02:19:45.000If things can go sideways in Iran or in Iraq or wherever the fuck it is, they can go sideways in America, too.
02:19:52.000And if you don't think that we need military, you're goddamn crazy.
02:20:15.000But right now, it's not currently like that.
02:20:17.000And people that I know, like Tim Kennedy, a guy who's been there, a guy who's done that, a guy like Jocko Willink, a guy who's been there, those are the guys that I turn to When I want to know what's going on over there, I want to get a real perspective.
02:20:33.000You want to get a real perspective for someone who's been in active duty in a combat situation, who's been to these horrific parts of the world.
02:21:01.000It feels better that we're not having terrorist issues over here anymore.
02:21:08.000Yeah, I mean, I really wish that everyone would come back home.
02:21:10.000I really wish that no one was in Afghanistan.
02:21:12.000I really wish that we weren't the police people for the world.
02:21:14.000I really wish that we're not sending young people to die in foreign wars that don't make any sense to you or I or anybody that really knows what the fuck is going on there.
02:21:23.000But this is the world we live in right now.
02:21:34.000No, that's why you got to respect the people that are over there doing that.
02:21:37.000And, you know, it's just like, you know, what a sacrifice, you know?
02:21:43.000And it's, I want to never take it for granted that there are, you know, we're safe here, things are going on, but just what's the sacrifices made by people in the military, it's, I never want to forget it.
02:21:56.000Yeah, it is a very controversial subject with people because if you're on the left, you want less military, you want less war, you want less violence, you want less everything, and that's a totally reasonable position.
02:22:11.000But I think in a lot of ways it's like wildlife.
02:22:14.000Like you're talking about it as someone who's never experienced it.
02:22:18.000And I think once you experience it and once you've been to these parts of the world, at least my perspective based on the descriptions that I've gotten from people that have been there, that it's way more complex.
02:22:30.000There are just parts of the world that are fucked.
02:22:35.000It's not black and white, that's for sure.
02:22:36.000And I think it's going to take many, many generations for those parts of the world to become a better place for people to live in and sort of catch up to what we think of as civilization in the Western world.
02:22:50.000I mean, you're looking at parts of the Middle East where women in Iran are risking their lives and their safety by not wearing a religious outfit.
02:22:58.000There's all these protests where these women are on the streets not wearing the hijab and they're walking around and they risk being imprisoned.
02:24:33.000And I just hope other people just realize that because it's not like I've been everywhere, but I know that the challenges like the women have that you were talking about, it's like, I couldn't imagine that.
02:24:45.000Yeah, look, one of the reasons why I'm pro-America is because I'm pro-human being.
02:24:50.000And I think there's more chances for people to be who they really want to be and become what they really want to be here.
02:24:57.000You know, and I support a lot of left-wing ideas.
02:25:02.000Equality and freedom and gay marriage.
02:25:05.000I think you should be able to do whatever the fuck you want to do.
02:25:13.000So when, you know, people see me and they see this giant American flag behind me, and they think immediately, oh, right-wing, oh, fucking conservative, alt-right, or whatever this is.
02:26:07.000Your elk, you did wind up shooting an elk, but did the video that did not get the actual arrow hitting the elk on camera, is that what the issue was?
02:27:08.000So when you boil all that down to 22 minutes with commercials, it just looks like inevitably you're going to get to about 18 minutes in, someone's going to shoot something.
02:27:35.000I've been thinking about that a lot because I was frustrated by that whole thing and this archaic idea that everything has to be 10 minutes long.
02:27:41.000You're talking to a guy who does a three-hour podcast.
02:27:44.000We've been talking for quite a while today.
02:27:46.000And millions of people listen to this.
02:28:15.000The people that are interested in elk hunting, they don't want to just see a couple guys laughing and joking around that an arrow hits a big bull and everybody's happy.
02:31:26.000But you're supposed to be showing respect to what is one of the more difficult and misunderstood pursuits in the United States, and that's bow hunting.
02:31:37.000It's incredibly difficult and incredibly misunderstood.
02:31:41.000And I think it's a noble pursuit, and I think it's also one of the more intriguing things and more interesting things I've ever done in my life.
02:31:51.000Well, I know, and I don't know if you could capture it all in one film, but I just know that, you know, if somehow we could capture just more of the journey, because there's people that don't know anything about it, just, like, want to know how to get started.
02:32:04.000I don't know if you could have one film that would do all that, but I just know that there's people hungry for knowledge out there that we're reaching, even with this podcast or with social media, that haven't been ingrained.
02:32:14.000So, it's like we're making these films To people who are already hunters, who already know everything.
02:32:20.000And so to them, oh, we've got to do this in a short period of time, otherwise you're going to get bored because they've done this a million times themselves.