On this week's episode of the podcast, we have a special guest on the show, a former Marine Land employee known as the Walrus whisperer. He talks about his time at Marine Land, his relationship with his beloved walrus, and what it's like to be the caretaker of one of the world's most famous walruses. We also talk about his love for the walrus he grew up with, and how he became the caretaker for one of his favorite animals. And, of course, we talk about the Walrus Whisperer, a little bit about her relationship with her mom, and why she thinks she's her biological mother. This episode is brought to you by Anchor.fm and the folks at Marineland. Thanks to everyone for all your support, stay safe out there in the wild, and stay walrus! and stay safe in the water! -The Crew at Wipeout -Your Hosts: , & Thanks also to our Sponsors: ) . . . . ... is a production of Gimlet Media. . Our theme song is by Suneaters, courtesy of Lotuspool Records, and our ad music is by Epitaph Records, which is also available on all major podcast directories, if you search for us on SoundCloud and Anchor, we'll send you a free ad-free version of the song "The Walrus Whistler" on the next episode of our new album, "Walrus Whisper" by The Walrus, "WALRUS Whisper." (featuring the amazing band, , and , we'll be sending you a review of that's coming out in the next issue of the new album "WELCOME! , featuring a new song called "WALKER" (feat. ) . , it's out on the podcast "The WALROSSPERTER" by , is out now! and we'll have a new ad-less version of that song is out next week! (we'll be shipping you get the song out in a few weeks! ). Thank you, we'll see you soon! -- Thank you for all the support we can't wait to hear back from you, we're looking forward to hearing from you! ) Thank you so much!
00:00:48.000I was on a TV show called Wipeout, and it was grassroots as hell in Canada.
00:00:53.000So basically what they do is they fly you out to Argentina, they sort of rent the course, and then instead of it being, you know, wipeout whatever country, this time it's Canada.
00:01:04.000So it was really grassrootsy, and so they told us, if you guys can help advertise, so get on your Twitters, get on your this, get on your that.
00:01:18.000But let's explain, you worked for Marineland, you got fired, you were taking care of this walrus, and it became like a big cause because a lot of people were concerned about the animal safety there, and since then they've been sighted.
00:01:33.000Like, what has happened with Marineland?
00:01:35.000Okay, so I'll give you a quick rundown.
00:01:47.000I quit amidst some duress, a difficult period where, and I'll elaborate, basically a water disinfection unit broke down and the resolve wasn't so much to fix it, it was to pump it with more and more chlorine.
00:02:00.000Basically, the way water is disinfected at Marineland, they use an ozone generator, so they use ozone in conjunction with the chlorine, sort of mitigate the chlorine use.
00:02:09.000They elected instead, or rather the sole controlling mind elected to put off actually fixing it, and let's just, at night, they're pumping it with chlorine.
00:02:18.000Well, you can just imagine the effects.
00:02:20.000And I'm not talking about a little bit of chlorine.
00:06:33.000And, yeah, so we just elected to try to fight as long as we could, try to sustain this legal battle because, you know, in lawsuits, you've got to reveal a lot of information in a lawsuit.
00:07:23.000And I have zero from them after five years.
00:07:26.000Because they're using the system as a means to simply abuse me, and acting the fool, as Marineland's legal team does exceptionally well, proves very effective in abusing a guy like me, whereas a corporation with endless amounts of money just sue the shit out of me.
00:07:41.000So they're basically just suing you to punish you and to try to keep other people from doing the same thing and talking out about them.
00:10:18.000But nonetheless, so they're in there negotiating.
00:10:20.000And basically, the way animal cruelty charges are pursued is they have to meet two thresholds.
00:10:27.000Number one, you have to have a reasonable chance of conviction.
00:10:32.000Number two, it has to be in the public's interest to pursue.
00:10:36.000A series of the first charges were immediately dropped because, and this is just driving me crazy for years that this has been going on and it continues.
00:10:45.000But if I, for instance, if I make a complaint to the OSPC and I provide a photo of an animal, which of course I did, that is clearly damaged and fucked up.
00:10:53.000If they don't physically have evidence of who it is that's actually harming the animal, there's no cruelty.
00:11:10.000But then there was a bunch that they did have a good chance at a conviction.
00:11:14.000And this is where Marineland promised the Crown that this was going to be a very expensive process, a long and drawn-out process, and the Crown agreed that it didn't exceed the threshold of being in the public's interest in spending a lot of public dollars pursuing these charges,
00:12:26.000There was a plaque on the wall until, you know, after 2012 when we sort of spoke out that honored Marineland's owner John Holer for his generosity.
00:12:44.000Things started to change pretty fast for me once I'd realized the depth of which Marineland was sort of in with all levels of government, really.
00:12:59.000So they can't possibly be in bed with the government and suing them.
00:13:02.000Or the Canadian Association of Zoos and Aquarium, which used to accredit all the zoos in Canada, or still does, they accredit them, so they try to say, oh, this is a good zoo, it's accredited.
00:13:12.000Marineland, I believe, also threatened them, because they were not going to renew their agreement this year.
00:13:59.000And I think after Blackfish, I mean, before you came on, or when you came on, it was before Blackfish had been released, and then once people saw what actually happens to these super intelligent animals when you lock them up in swimming pools, They're starting to realize it and see world's attendance is down and people are down on the whole idea,
00:14:28.000I mean, the emotional distress they go through.
00:14:29.000I'm a firm believer that emotionally we don't even have the slightest sense of how complex they can be.
00:14:34.000Right, because they don't have an ability to express themselves to us, other than eating us occasionally, which killer whales only do in captivity.
00:14:42.000Yeah, there's no records of killer whale attacks in the wild on humans.
00:14:45.000Yeah, they fuck people up in captivity, though.
00:15:17.000And then you just arc up and then she just takes it to the moon and she's screaming underwater when she's having a good time or rather when she's expressing herself that she's going to toss you.
00:15:24.000This particular time when I probably shouldn't have gone in the water.
00:15:42.000So the way the shows work, I mean, they don't exist anymore, but back in the day was you worked the animal initially to get a sense of their demeanor.
00:15:49.000So you got them jump in, you got them run around, you get engaged, you know, you get a good sense of how they are.
00:20:51.000Trainers give their orcas, also known as killer whales, a psychoactive drug, benzodiazepine...
00:20:58.000According to the sworn affidavit filed in Ontario Superior Court of Justice in dispute between the Park Company and the rival company, Marineland, over the transport of a prize killer whale.
00:21:33.000I'm sued for millions because I'm alleging that Marineland is mistreating their animals.
00:21:39.000SeaWorld sues Marineland because they're mistreating, they're not taking appropriate care of the killer whale and actually win the lawsuit.
00:21:46.000They would not put any barriers around the pool.
00:29:07.000It doesn't address a lot of the things that we're actually addressing with Bill S203, which is the one that I spoke to two years ago, that Marineland has managed to get this guy.
00:29:15.000This senator to keep playing, again, acting the fool, doing all these creative ways to kill this bill.
00:29:31.000Illegal lobbying, which may or may not Turned into some problems for Senator Don Platt.
00:29:38.000Correct me if I'm wrong, but for a while, some of the parks in the United States would get them from some of the parks in Canada, which would get them from Russians and Chinese who would capture them in the wild.
00:29:49.000So the parks in the United States would say that they don't capture whales.
00:29:53.000So what they would do is Marineland would capture a boatload of wild ones, and then once...
00:30:30.000And so that's what we're trying to put an end to because all these loopholes, you know, Marine Land really capitalized on this, but they went a long time lobbying the government for years.
00:30:36.000I mean, they've been around for 50 plus years.
00:30:38.000They've done all the right moves a businessman would do if he wants to keep a thriving business without too many hands sort of keeping him from doing anything.
00:30:47.000It's just so disturbing that we're willing to just accept this because we don't know what they're saying.
00:30:52.000You know, we know that they have a really complex language.
00:30:56.000We can't decipher it, though, because it's so alien in terms of, like, the sounds that they make.
00:31:01.000It's not something you put into a box, but it's not like any other animal.
00:31:04.000Between dolphins and killer whales, and whales.
00:31:44.000If you put yourself in the mindset of looking at an animal and try to change your perception of them a little bit rather than sort of disassociating, and you look at them, you can actually see that they're like, oh, it's like they're people, man.
00:31:57.000And when you deal with killer whales and stuff, Well, they evolved in a different environment, but they evolved to be incredibly social, highly dynamic populations.
00:32:08.000They live in these very intimate groups.
00:33:03.000I mean, I don't want to diminish the horrors of human slavery, because in human slavery, at least there's no question whatsoever that that's a human.
00:34:11.000But these fucking promises, do not believe for a moment that they're like some type of responsible corporate citizens that's going to hold on to this thing.
00:34:21.000And so what California did was they went out and banned it.
00:34:24.000So in California, you can't breed orcas, import-export issues, all that.
00:34:29.000But in Florida, so again, SeaWorld makes the promise, they had an Orca Protection Act that they were looking to do exactly like California.
00:34:35.000They were going to make it concrete, pass the law, that way SeaWorld can't just backpedal on it down the road, which everyone suspects they will.
00:34:43.000SeaWorld is lobbying like fucking crazy and just last week successfully defeated the bill again.
00:34:49.000They're putting a lot of effort- SeaWorld is trying to defeat a bill that- No, they successfully defeated.
00:34:53.000Multiple times, including just last week.
00:34:55.000That allows them, or the bill would keep them from breeding these animals in captivity.
00:35:34.000I mean, it's safe to assume that this is exactly what's happening, is SeaWorld is planning their exit strategy, and they're going to start sending their orcas to China.
00:36:20.000I had no idea that there was that many in captivity in the States.
00:36:23.000It just seems to be such an archaic thing.
00:36:27.000I can't imagine that the United States wants to keep doing that.
00:36:30.000The fact that SeaWorld is trying to keep doing that in Florida and that they've successfully lobbied to allow them to keep breeding these animals in captivity.
00:41:55.000I wouldn't be surprised to think that he's rationalized in his mind to just fucking sewer this thing, like destroy all our lives for having spoken out, but just tank the park in the process.
00:45:14.000Where they were talking about, it was an audiobook, they were talking about how monkeys have differentiated the sound that they make if there is a tiger versus the sound they make if there's an eagle.
00:45:27.000Anytime I'm walking around and I hear a squirrel in a tree making a certain sound, I know there's a cat in the vicinity.
00:45:33.000But they have a language, like a very crude language, but what they've done is taken the sound of an eagle, and they play it near monkeys, and the monkeys look up.
00:45:49.000Yeah, it's really interesting because like they have a few sounds that they can repeat and they know for a fact that these Monkeys know what they're talking about and monkeys even play jokes.
00:45:58.000That's a language on each other They play jokes on each other like if one monkey wanted a banana He would say hey man is a fucking eagle here and the monkey would run up the tree and he would get the banana Like they would they lie to each other It's pretty fascinating makes doing fucked up things to them that much worse,
00:46:15.000You mean monkeys I mean, we know that they're intelligent, but they got a little tiny, little tiny brain, little tiny ass head, little tiny brain, you know, but...
00:48:44.000Back in Christmas, back in the day, when the owner used to host Christmas parties, he'd go back and slaughter a bison and then feed burgers and make food out of it and stuff.
00:49:27.000Someone, let's say, would drive around in his truck, you know, put the gun out the window and just go on these shooting sprees, wiping out these animals.
00:49:35.000In the morning, the land animal care guys would show up and they'd be like, okay, go pick up the bodies of these poor kids.
00:49:42.000Or would he do it because he's trying to thin the population because there's too many of them?
00:49:45.000Oh, no, there wouldn't be anything like that.
00:49:46.000Well, in one case, once the investigation came out in 2012, which revealed, of course, abuse with land animals as well, They went on a calling spree if you will where they got rid of some of the uglier sort of less healthy animals It's funny because Marineland actually breeds the more beautiful deer off-site.
00:50:04.000The more beautiful animals that they have are not on display.
00:50:08.000They're actually back there breeding out of display.
00:50:11.000I don't know if you recall when the owner shot those two labs.
00:50:14.000Beautiful little Labrador dogs went running up and down the fence across from Marineland's owner's house, which is where the off-site pen is, where he breeds the animals.
00:51:06.000A lot of things are happening now on account of these lawsuits and further down the road that we've gone where things are starting to disappear.
00:51:12.000There was a very powerful historical website about Marineland and some of the owners' history.
00:51:18.000And, you know, these things are gone now.
00:52:01.000I gotta watch where the hell I step because at any given point, if I'm on their land, I'm getting charged with trespassing, whether I like it or not.
00:52:07.000In fact, the city of Niagara Falls leased land to Marineland to keep protesters off of their site, which is absolute bullshit.
00:52:15.000And if anyone's listening from city council, I hope you do.
00:52:17.000You gotta fix that because that's some horse shit right there, man.
00:52:37.000At least Marineland played this idea that people came to Niagara Falls, they would see the falls, they'd look at them for 10 minutes, and then they would have no reason to stay.
00:52:45.000They were saying they're bringing all this business because people are now going to hotels, going to restaurants, and then going to Marineland the next day.
00:53:13.000And successfully, not in the sense that there was any judgment, but successfully in that the people that spoke had to pay a horrible price and, you know, essentially got silenced.
00:53:23.000So no one wants to speak out against that.
00:53:43.000The only way that there could be a resolve at this point is if I were to sign a document, and I'm assuming at this point, because Marieland sent nothing in terms of any type of agreement, but down the road, their objective is to shut me up.
00:53:57.000They want to wipe out the last 20 years of my life.
00:53:59.000They don't want me to open my mouth about anything, of course, in the last five years, and then the 12 prior, when I sort of revealed everything that was going on.
00:54:45.000And so in April, so the last time I was here two years ago, I solicited some help, resources to be able to pursue marine lands owner in that I want him to be examined in court, much like I have.
00:54:55.000In the same capacity that I had to forfeit all of my communications, I want the same for the corporation, and I want to examine Marineland's owner as representative.
00:55:12.000And since then, we've tried multiple times to schedule.
00:55:15.000Now, we're almost at a year now of trying to schedule this man to come in for examinations, and he's not shown up a couple times now.
00:55:23.000And so, at some point, if Marineland doesn't want the facts out there, and that's what I'm pursuing, I want the facts out there, they're going to have to settle.
00:55:35.000And so, how that ends with me, I don't know.
00:55:56.000But would it be predicated on you would have to shut your mouth?
00:56:00.000If it wasn't something that went, if it wasn't a judgment that the judge made, for instance, if we went to trial, the judge makes their decision then.
00:56:07.000If we settle beforehand, it's because everyone wants to wash their hands and walk away.
00:56:11.000Marine Land's not going to wash their hands of me unless, I feel, unless I've got them properly cornered.
00:56:17.000The only way they want to get me is, well, of course they want to ruin me, right?
00:56:23.000Well, if Marineland's owners missed a couple examinations now, how many until I can go in and actually file a motion to have the entire statement of claim dismissed?
00:57:10.000That doesn't affect mine, unfortunately, because we actually fought to get a case management judge on my case because, like I said, Greenland's acting the fool.
00:57:19.000I can't seem to get in front of a judge.
00:57:24.000You know, the crazy thing about these lawsuits, and I see now, of course, in 2012 I was a lot more naive, but all of the wins that I get in court cost me.
00:57:32.000So, for instance, I defend a motion against Marineland.
01:00:49.000There's going to come a time in the future where people look back at this kind of captivity of these hyper-intelligent social animals stolen from their families.
01:01:17.000At one point I had a far right, well, a person who's perceived as a far right internet personality tweet my documentary and then Rosie O'Donnell tweets it and she's as left as it gets.
01:02:27.000And she's expressing all this interest.
01:02:29.000Like, you know, I've done documentaries.
01:02:31.000I've released them on HBO. You know, I've done all these things.
01:02:34.000I'm going to L.A. tomorrow, and I'm going to call you back on Friday, but I'm meeting with this Emmy Award Producing producer and we're gonna get this thing out there and then she starts to say and this is where my heart starts to ache is that you know you always sort of hope that there's gonna be a hero that I mean especially in the last five years it's gonna be like you know what enough's enough let's let's do this and especially in the case of with my walrus she starts saying I think we can get the walrus like we can get some pressure get a TV network pressure so let's get that walrus I'm just like dude you're pulling on my fucking heartstrings now I you know and
01:03:55.000I mean, I just, even last week I contacted someone that, I mean, the media now, and mind you, it's a very different landscape now from 2012. 2012 media was against me.
01:04:03.000Corporate media was in, Greenland had them in their back pocket.
01:06:26.000Ontario's premier was suing the leader of the opposition.
01:06:29.000She took out the retro clause, so it was no longer retroactive to any lawsuits that are already in the system.
01:06:36.000So now I'm actually fighting against a lawsuit that is illegal, and if it were to be applied to my lawsuit, had it been, Marine Light would be up against some punitive damages like crazy, just by fault of launching a malicious lawsuit.
01:06:47.000But because it's not retro, I sit back and I just continue to eat it.
01:09:29.000And this time next week, this sucker should go.
01:09:33.000That whale sanctuary project, they're going to build a whale sanctuary.
01:09:36.000There's going to be a place for whales.
01:09:38.000If it's in Canada and all the exportation laws are that Marineland can't get rid of their whales, there will only be one place for whales if that business elects to evolve or if there's any type of ownership changes.
01:09:50.000Explain to me how this sanctuary would work.
01:09:52.000Well, you'd have an environment where it's penned off in the ocean, and there'd be various different pens for various different procedures, if you will.
01:10:02.000But the idea is that if they can't be wholly released, Then you've got a place where they have a sense, a semblance of freedom, if you will.
01:13:24.000Because I've always said when you go to a place like SeaWorld or whatever, and you look at all those Dolphins and killer whales, how would you get them free?
01:13:32.000There would have to be some intermediary step.
01:13:42.000Because I feel like if there was a place where you could go and people could feed the killer whales, like release some fish or something like that and be there to watch, that would be way more exciting than watching them in a swimming pool.
01:13:54.000You watch a fucking killer whale fart in the wild versus do a backflip in the captivity and you're watching that fart in awe and this thing is just music and bullshit.
01:14:14.000I was on the PCH, and I was driving, and in the corner of my eye I saw something in the water, and then I saw the tail, the fins going over it, and a few of them together.
01:14:25.000And I pulled over and I'm like, fuck, man, that's amazing.
01:14:28.000Like, I don't want to live in Malibu because I'm scared of tsunamis.
01:14:30.000But if you were there, like right there, like looking out your fucking bedroom window and checking that out first thing in the morning, dolphins in your yard.
01:14:40.000Yeah, and they're just wild, man, having a good old time.
01:14:44.000You know, you see them in marine land, or I've never seen them in marine land, but you see them in any sort of captive area, and you just get this weird feeling like, yeah, they're cool to look at, but man.
01:14:54.000They're just not, they're just not, you know there's something missing there.
01:14:58.000Yeah, it's like the difference between seeing a cow in a pen versus a buffalo in the wild.
01:15:03.000This is where hunters, I say they're really, this is where I get a lot of support from hunters because no hunters, I mean, all you got to do is grab a pigeon.
01:15:10.000Just go on the corner of the street, grab a pigeon if you can grab it, put it in a cage and watch how depressed you are in a half hour watching it.
01:16:51.000If it doesn't make you crack up, if it doesn't make you cry, if it doesn't make you really sad that people are capable of doing that, it's just wrong.
01:17:00.000It's not what we should be doing as a species, as a race, as a civilization.