The Joe Rogan Experience - May 21, 2018


Joe Rogan Experience #1119 - Howard Bloom


Episode Stats

Length

2 hours and 53 minutes

Words per Minute

172.81175

Word Count

30,003

Sentence Count

2,291

Misogynist Sentences

29

Hate Speech Sentences

43


Summary

In 1988, Joe Bloom was a rock and roll rock star in the music industry. But then he was diagnosed with a rare genetic disease that kept him in bed for 15 years. And when he finally got back on his feet, he had no idea what to do with himself. So he decided to do something about it. And that something turned out to be one of the most important things he ever did: he went on to write a book about it, and become a best-selling author. And then, just like that, he was gone. He was gone forever. And now, he s back. In this episode, Joe talks about what happened to him, and what it was like to be diagnosed with M.E.C.S. (MEicalgasmic Encephalitis Syndromes, also known as Chronic Ecological Distress Syndrome, or MEidiaclisis) and how it affected him for years. Plus, he tells the story of how he managed to get back on the bandstand after 15 years of being bedbound for most of that time, and how he came back to life. This episode originally aired on the radio show Mythology. It's available on most major podcast directories, including the New York Times, CBS Radio, NPR, and NPR. and NPR affiliate KWVS. Subscribe to Mythology today! and leave us a review of the episode on Apple Podcasts! Subscribe, Rate, review, and subscribe to our new podcast, Mythology! if you like it! Thank you for listening and subscribe! and share it with a friend! It helps us spread the word to the rest of the universe. XOXO, the universe is bigger than you can count! Love Ghost of God? by clicking on it? and we'll be listening to it on your friends, too! And we'll send you more like it on Anchor, and other places you can help spread it around the universe more widely than you know it's cool, too, and it'll help us spread it everywhere else, more like that's cool than you're listening, more of it, more places like that you can do it, better than you'll be cool than that, and more of that, more stuff like that? -- Thank you, thank you, thanks, bye bye, bye, good vibes, good night. bye.


Transcript

00:00:02.000 Try to keep this about a fist away from your face.
00:00:05.000 Okay.
00:00:06.000 How's this?
00:00:08.000 A little closer, if you can.
00:00:11.000 Good?
00:00:11.000 We're live?
00:00:12.000 Oh, that was quick.
00:00:14.000 Oh, you're a wizard over there.
00:00:16.000 Mr. Bloom.
00:00:16.000 Yes, Joe, it's great to see you.
00:00:18.000 Thanks for doing this, man.
00:00:18.000 I appreciate it.
00:00:19.000 Well, we were in a film together, so we've been like right next to each other on celluloid.
00:00:24.000 What film were we in?
00:00:25.000 That was The Culture High, Brett Harvey, and it's you, me, Richard Branson, and Snoop Dogg.
00:00:32.000 Oh, good company.
00:00:34.000 Yes, right.
00:00:36.000 Yeah, so you were just saying right before we did the podcast, you were in bed for 15 years.
00:00:41.000 Yeah, I got sick in 1988. I wasn't able to make it out of that bed until 2003, but Joe, I was absolutely certain I would never make it out of that bed again.
00:00:51.000 What did you have?
00:00:52.000 It's called, these days, this month, it's called MECFS. Up until now, it was just known as chronic fatigue syndrome, CFS. But it's real serious if you get a bad case of it.
00:01:05.000 So I was too weak to talk for five years.
00:01:07.000 Too weak to talk.
00:01:09.000 You didn't talk at all?
00:01:10.000 Not a bit.
00:01:11.000 I didn't have the strength to puff out even a syllable.
00:01:15.000 Whoa.
00:01:17.000 And I was too weak to have another person in the room with me for five years.
00:01:21.000 You couldn't have a person in the room.
00:01:23.000 My stress levels were off the charts, and the slightest thing would – just the crack – my wife tried to keep me company.
00:01:31.000 So we have this big king-size bed, and she would lay in bed reading – And the sound of the page turning went through me like a cannonball.
00:01:41.000 And it just tore me to pieces.
00:01:44.000 And she had to build a separate room in the front of the house and live there because I couldn't tolerate anything.
00:01:53.000 Did you think it was over?
00:01:55.000 Yeah, I thought, first of all, something you don't know.
00:01:59.000 You have a sense of humanity and you don't know it.
00:02:02.000 And something like this that wipes out your entire future, every dream you ever had for yourself.
00:02:09.000 Robs you of your sense of humanity.
00:02:11.000 And you don't know there is a sense of humanity until it disappears.
00:02:15.000 So it took me three years.
00:02:17.000 I had to rebuild a personality from just about scratch because the one area I could handle, at least most of the time, was the Internet.
00:02:28.000 You know, the internet hit the music industry in 1983, and I had been lusting after it for years because only academics had access to this real high-tech thing.
00:02:39.000 And I had, it took me three years to realize that every day I was trying to go up to my front room office and work, and that sitting was draining me of my energy.
00:02:51.000 And since I only had a tiny amount of energy, if I lay there, horizontal, in the bed, We're good to go.
00:03:18.000 And this was a box that allowed me to control both computers from one monitor and one keyboard.
00:03:23.000 So we had the keyboard up on foam bolsters so that I could see it when I was laying perfectly horizontal in bed so I could still see the keys.
00:03:32.000 And I rebuilt the personality online because I couldn't get any further than to the bathroom and back.
00:03:39.000 That was it.
00:03:40.000 What do you mean by you rebuilt a personality?
00:03:42.000 Well, everything I hadn't expected.
00:03:44.000 I mean, I was going to write my first book, and I was going to...
00:03:49.000 I'm a nerd from science.
00:03:50.000 I got into science at the age of 10. I got into theoretical physics and microbiology.
00:03:54.000 I built my first Boolean algebra machine when I was 12. I co-designed a computer that won science fair awards when I was 12. I was taken to see the head of the graduate physics department at the University of Buffalo.
00:04:08.000 And disappeared into his office for an hour.
00:04:10.000 My mother wondered what in the world had happened to me because it was supposed to be a five-minute courtesy call.
00:04:14.000 We were discussing Big Bang versus steady-state theory of the universe for an hour.
00:04:20.000 And when I was 16, I worked at the world's largest cancer research lab, and I came up with the theory of the beginning, middle, and end of the universe, the Big Bagel theory, or the Bloom-Toroidal model, that predicted 38 years in advance dark energy.
00:04:34.000 And then I ended up in the rock and roll business.
00:04:42.000 Thank you.
00:04:45.000 Thank you.
00:05:03.000 What caused this disease?
00:05:05.000 Nobody knows.
00:05:06.000 Nobody knows.
00:05:06.000 Nobody has a clue.
00:05:08.000 No idea of what the...
00:05:09.000 So in the different names, chronic fatigue syndrome, ME... ME is myalgic encephalomyelitis.
00:05:16.000 It's a more dignified name.
00:05:18.000 Can they...
00:05:20.000 Understand it to the point where they could test for it?
00:05:22.000 Do they give you a blood test?
00:05:24.000 No, they can't test for it.
00:05:25.000 They don't know what causes it.
00:05:27.000 There is no...
00:05:28.000 I've written...
00:05:29.000 Look, a friend approached me at one point and said, the Duchess of Kent has what you have.
00:05:33.000 Can you write her a letter about how to manage it?
00:05:36.000 So instead of a letter, I wrote 14 or 16 pages or something like that.
00:05:40.000 So when people have this, I send them this pamphlet.
00:05:44.000 It explains how I got out of it, but what worked for me is not necessarily going to work for you or anybody else.
00:05:50.000 Was it a gradual slipping away of your energy or was it a quick drop off?
00:05:54.000 Not that gradual.
00:05:54.000 It happened on March 10th of 1988. So March 9th, you're fine.
00:05:59.000 March 10th?
00:06:00.000 March 9th, I'm fine.
00:06:01.000 March 10th, I'm fine.
00:06:03.000 I fly down to, I think it was Richmond or something like that, to go out five, to be taken by Jeep five hours into the countryside to meet with Linda Womack, that's Sam Cooke's daughter, and her husband, Cecil Womack,
00:06:18.000 who wrote The Rolling Stones' first hit, he and his brother.
00:06:22.000 And they have this big aircraft hangar sized farm building.
00:06:28.000 It's going to be their home.
00:06:30.000 But right now they've just had it built.
00:06:32.000 It's empty.
00:06:33.000 It doesn't have heating yet.
00:06:34.000 And it's March 10th.
00:06:36.000 It's still the end of winter.
00:06:38.000 And so we go in past the sheep and into this building and there's no furniture in there and I sit there and interview them for five hours and find out that there's something called a black coal mining culture and that gospel came out of those black coal mines.
00:06:50.000 I had no idea that blacks ever got involved in coal mines, much less that that's how gospel culture began.
00:06:57.000 And I... They drove me five hours back to the airport again.
00:07:01.000 I sat there on the plane with my little TRS-100, the very first laptop computer, this little gizmo that ran off of AA batteries.
00:07:10.000 And then I forgot my laptop on the plane.
00:07:16.000 I don't do things like that.
00:07:18.000 Some of it was a little off.
00:07:19.000 The next day I thought I had a cold.
00:07:21.000 My technique for handling a cold?
00:07:23.000 Work your fucking ass off.
00:07:26.000 Walk a minimum of two and a half miles and do your work.
00:07:31.000 So I worked and powered my way through it by Tuesday.
00:07:36.000 I was so weak that my staff had to pick me up under the armpits and drag me off to the elevator and throw me in the back of a car service car and ship me out to Park Slope to my Brownstone in Brooklyn.
00:07:49.000 I don't know how I even got up the stairs, and it was all downhill basically from there.
00:07:54.000 For 15 years.
00:07:55.000 15 friggin' years.
00:07:57.000 Right.
00:07:57.000 But I still had gotten halfway through writing my first book.
00:08:02.000 My plan was, okay, I'll do what I've done with all my rock and roll bands.
00:08:07.000 When my book is ready to come out, I'll go do every morning television show, every radio show, every newspaper...
00:08:14.000 In the country, I'll stay at high houses where the sheets are sunny and yellow, and where they make the bed for you.
00:08:21.000 You don't have to make it yourself, and they'll feed you food and stuff like that, and I'll promote my book.
00:08:26.000 That was my vision of my next step in life, my future.
00:08:29.000 Well...
00:08:30.000 If you can't leave your bedroom, that's all gone.
00:08:33.000 That's all gone.
00:08:35.000 And I had to walk into my office one day and say, I have no idea of what's happening to me.
00:08:41.000 I could be dying.
00:08:42.000 I have to be out of here in two weeks.
00:08:44.000 And I gave the whole thing to my staff.
00:08:48.000 The biggest PR firm in the music industry.
00:08:50.000 You just gave it to them?
00:08:51.000 Yeah.
00:08:52.000 And the next day I got a call from a West Coast competitor offering me a lot of money, and I had to say, no, I'm sorry, I gave it to my staff yesterday.
00:09:01.000 And I, as I say, had to reinvent myself with what little I had.
00:09:06.000 The books were still of value, my science was still of value, and I had to create a new me online.
00:09:15.000 Now, when you say create a new you online, and you say create a new personality, what exactly do you mean by that?
00:09:21.000 What was wrong with your old personality?
00:09:23.000 The old personality couldn't walk anymore, couldn't talk anymore.
00:09:26.000 That was your body, right?
00:09:28.000 That was my body, but you have no idea of just how much.
00:09:31.000 Of your personality is your body and your vocal cords and stuff like that that you take for granted or instruments of some internal you.
00:09:40.000 I had to invent an existence, let's put it that way, online.
00:09:45.000 And how'd you do that?
00:09:46.000 Well, I got online.
00:09:50.000 First, I... God, I can't even remember what came first, but at some point...
00:09:56.000 Because I was fact-checking my first book, but had to do this all laying there in bed.
00:10:02.000 I got hold of Napoleon Chagnon, who is the anthropologist who chronicled the fierce people, the Yanomama, in South America.
00:10:11.000 People who are really, I mean, the more people you kill, the more wives you get.
00:10:15.000 It's as simple as that in Yanomama culture.
00:10:19.000 And I wanted him to read my book, my first book, The Lucifer Principle, A Scientific Expedition into the Forces of History.
00:10:26.000 And he said, look, people are out to destroy my career right now.
00:10:29.000 I can't get involved with anything controversial, but I'm a key member of the Human Behavior and Evolution Society, and you should be a member.
00:10:38.000 Well, he introduced me to a social group in which I could interact as long as I could continue to type.
00:10:44.000 So this is a message board or?
00:10:46.000 It was all done via email.
00:10:48.000 So just a group of people that you could interact with with email?
00:10:51.000 Yeah.
00:10:51.000 And I've been working on my writing since I was 16 years old.
00:10:55.000 Science is my base.
00:10:57.000 But the book I got at the age of 12 by Albert Einstein, you know, sometimes a book grabs you by the lapels and it feels like the author is writing this directly into your face.
00:11:06.000 And Einstein said, to be a genius, it's not enough to come up with a theory only seven men in the world can understand.
00:11:13.000 To be a genius, you have to be able to come up with that theory and then express it so clearly that anyone with a high school education and a reasonable degree of intelligence can understand it.
00:11:22.000 So Albert Einstein, my hero, said, schmuck, listen up.
00:11:25.000 You want to be an original scientific thinker?
00:11:28.000 You have to be the best writer you can possibly be.
00:11:31.000 So I've been working on my writing since I was 16 years old.
00:11:34.000 I was late.
00:11:36.000 It took me four years to get around to doing it after Einstein gave me the orders.
00:11:40.000 And when I was put on the Human Behavior and Evolutionary Society group, Well, I can write my fucking ass off.
00:11:49.000 So people were impressed, and they gathered around me, fortunately.
00:11:56.000 Now, admittedly, it's all on a computer screen, and it's all via keyboard, and there are no living humans in the room anyplace, but it saved my life!
00:12:07.000 To be able to do that.
00:12:09.000 And then I founded two international scientific groups of my own, and I wrote three books, because those were things I could do with that keyboard, as long as I had the strength to do the keyboarding.
00:12:19.000 And I didn't always have the strength to even lift my hands and do that.
00:12:22.000 But I did most of the time.
00:12:24.000 Now, during this time, were you getting treated?
00:12:27.000 Were doctors giving you...
00:12:28.000 Doctors don't know a damn thing about this.
00:12:31.000 Eventually, my first wife, who I lost because of this, lost a 34-year marriage because of the illness, she persuaded a CFS doctor, a doctor who specializes in chronic fatigue syndrome, to come out to my house when he was going to a party in Brooklyn and see me.
00:12:48.000 And the most useful thing that he did was hand me a piece of paper with an email address on it.
00:12:53.000 And he said, this is another one of my patients.
00:12:55.000 She's in Texas.
00:12:56.000 I want you to get in touch with her.
00:12:58.000 And the two of us went out like Hansel and Gretel holding hands going into the forest looking for treatment modalities.
00:13:04.000 We're looking for treatments that might possibly save us from our illness.
00:13:09.000 So...
00:13:11.000 When I tell people the stuff I take, and they say, okay, who can I get this from, and I send them to my doctor, my old CFS doctor, he says, oh, I don't give those treatments.
00:13:20.000 Well, he gave them to me, but he gave them to me because those were the things that felt like they might work, and he allowed me to try them.
00:13:28.000 And I ended up with, every morning I give myself a shot with three different things in it, a half a cc of magnesium, one cc of oxytocin, and about two cc's of cyanocobalamin, which is liquid vitamin B12. So B12,
00:13:43.000 magnesium, and oxytocin.
00:13:45.000 Oxytocin, the bonding hormone.
00:13:48.000 Oxytocin, the stuff that creates trust in neuroeconomics experiments.
00:13:53.000 Oxytocin, if you're a mother and you've just given birth to a baby, when you put that baby to your left nipple for the very first time, you feel in some cases like you've just taken LSD. Because this chemical goes coursing through your body and it's a trip.
00:14:09.000 And it makes you trust everybody in the room and everybody who walks into the room.
00:14:14.000 It's oxytocin.
00:14:16.000 And oxytocin, I've been on oxytocin now for 20 years.
00:14:20.000 And oxytocin, it turns out, also does something else.
00:14:24.000 There's this little experiment called parabiosis.
00:14:27.000 Take an old rat.
00:14:28.000 His brain is aging.
00:14:30.000 His heart is aging.
00:14:31.000 His kidneys are aging.
00:14:32.000 You hook up the circulatory system to the circulatory system of a young rat.
00:14:36.000 And guess what starts happening to the old rat?
00:14:39.000 His brain starts reversing, getting younger.
00:14:42.000 His heart starts getting younger.
00:14:43.000 His kidneys start to get younger.
00:14:45.000 So I'm about to be 75 years old in a month.
00:14:50.000 And I do between 400 and 700 push-ups in the morning first thing.
00:14:55.000 That's crazy.
00:14:56.000 Yeah.
00:14:56.000 That's a lot.
00:14:57.000 It's really crazy.
00:14:57.000 But when they tried to figure out what is reversing the aging in the muscles of the rat, the heart of the rat, the brain of the rat, the one ingredient they were able to isolate and then use on other rats to get them to get younger instead of older was oxytocin.
00:15:18.000 So, in all probability, the reason I can do between 400 and 700 push-ups in a morning at the age of 74, and when I was 19, the most I could do was 92, and I was working really hard at it, is the oxytocin.
00:15:32.000 I've never heard of anybody taking that as a supplement.
00:15:35.000 Well, it showed up.
00:15:36.000 There was a doctor named something like Seastrunk in Texas who was using it on CFS patients, and my friend, the Texas patient of my doctor, found Seastrunk and got his protocol out of him, in other words, exactly what he'd used to treat The problem.
00:15:51.000 And we gave it to my doctor and he sat on it for six months until he could regurgitate it as his own bright idea.
00:15:57.000 And then he prescribed it for me.
00:16:00.000 And it's done wonders.
00:16:03.000 That and a bunch of other stuff have done absolute wonders.
00:16:06.000 What are the other things that have worked?
00:16:07.000 I think gabapentin.
00:16:09.000 Without that, I mean, I was on my way to Moscow once I finally got out of bed.
00:16:13.000 I was going to address an international conference of quantum physicists about why everything they know about quantum physics is wrong.
00:16:20.000 I was fine.
00:16:22.000 I mean, this was my first traveling since I'd gotten out of bed, and it was taking a huge chance, because there was a huge chance of throwing me back into bed again.
00:16:29.000 And I flew all the way to Germany and was doing just fine.
00:16:33.000 I was exhilarated that I was doing so well.
00:16:35.000 And then halfway between Germany and Moscow, the CFS symptoms began to come back.
00:16:40.000 And that was scary.
00:16:41.000 And then I reviewed what I was doing, and I realized I'd missed all my afternoon pills.
00:16:48.000 And as soon as I was able, well, we had to find a bed in the infirmary, which is scary, and the Moscow airport, because there are people walking around with machine guns and military uniforms, and they want to take my passport away in order to allow me to lay on a bed in the infirmary,
00:17:05.000 and so I could be disappeared at any second.
00:17:09.000 But when we finally got to our hotel and opened up my drug roll, I took the gabapentin, and within 15 minutes, the symptoms were gone.
00:17:20.000 Wow.
00:17:20.000 So have you ever tried to isolate individual ones, remove some of them from the protocol to see if...
00:17:25.000 I once removed one, amitriptyline.
00:17:28.000 It's an antidepressant.
00:17:29.000 That's what it was originally designed for.
00:17:31.000 And I figured, I don't need this anymore.
00:17:33.000 I'm perfectly healthy.
00:17:36.000 It was a big mistake.
00:17:37.000 I started having these blinding stomach aches, and they went on for months and months and months, until I finally got fed up and started researching on Google, what do you do about stomach aches?
00:17:48.000 Well, guess what one of the primary things you do to stop stomach aches?
00:17:52.000 Amitriptyline, the very thing I had gone off of.
00:17:55.000 So I had to go back on it.
00:17:57.000 So it's a whole network, a mesh, of supplements, drugs, and lifestyle.
00:18:05.000 I don't sleep the way normal people sleep.
00:18:08.000 I sleep from 4 o'clock in the morning until 8 o'clock in the morning.
00:18:12.000 I get up.
00:18:13.000 I listen to magazines on the Kindle while I'm taking my bath and shaving and all that stuff.
00:18:19.000 I meet with my assistant.
00:18:20.000 I give her her marching orders for the day.
00:18:22.000 I go back to sleep at 11, and I sleep until 3. And then I get up for my second workday.
00:18:28.000 And that's when I do all my writing and all that kind of stuff.
00:18:32.000 So do you sleep in four-hour chunks?
00:18:34.000 Two four-hour chunks.
00:18:35.000 Do you feel like that is better for you?
00:18:37.000 My body was refusing to do the eight-hour thing.
00:18:40.000 So one of the first symptoms of CFS is insomnia.
00:18:45.000 Okay, now, Joe, if your body is refusing to sleep for eight hours straight, listen to your body.
00:18:51.000 Give it what the hell it wants.
00:18:53.000 And so these are the hours my body demanded.
00:18:57.000 And I had been working often until 8 o'clock in the morning from roughly 11 o'clock at night or something like that, and losing track of time, and it was very disorienting.
00:19:07.000 And once I started this two periods of sleep a day, my day stabilized.
00:19:13.000 And there's other stuff.
00:19:14.000 I mean, listening to Pandora, you would think, what does that have to do with your illness?
00:19:18.000 Well, I work at a cafe.
00:19:20.000 That's a vital part of things, because I'm surrounded by people.
00:19:23.000 And I've slowly built community in this cafe.
00:19:26.000 Other workaholic writers like me, a neuroscientist, a novelist, and all kinds of people who just sit there and slave away all day.
00:19:36.000 But I'm listening to Pandora.
00:19:38.000 That gives me a sense of life.
00:19:39.000 For some reason, it's as positive as an elixir.
00:19:45.000 And it gives me a sense of control over my environment, and I don't hear the conversations going on around me, so I can really focus on my work.
00:19:52.000 I've written four books this way so far in cafes.
00:19:56.000 All of this stuff.
00:19:57.000 Walking five miles a day in two bursts.
00:20:00.000 I mean, there I am going through a meadow in the middle of a park at night.
00:20:04.000 How many New Yorkers do you know who go out and walk through a park?
00:20:07.000 In the middle of the night.
00:20:09.000 Robbers.
00:20:10.000 Yeah, right.
00:20:10.000 That's what you'd think.
00:20:12.000 But I have the time of my life looking up at the stars out in the middle of the meadow and being where I'm not supposed to be.
00:20:18.000 Are you not supposed to go to the park at night?
00:20:20.000 Well, they let you.
00:20:22.000 I have been thrown out six times by the police because I've overstepped the boundaries.
00:20:28.000 I've been out there after one o'clock and they do close the place at one and throw us all out.
00:20:33.000 But no, in New York lore, unless you're walking a really big dog, you do not go out into parks at night.
00:20:40.000 But you put this whole lifestyle together, and it's not just any individual ingredient that's making me better.
00:20:49.000 I'm happier than I was when I was 19. I'm stronger.
00:20:53.000 I walk a lot more slowly than when I was 19. In terms of push-ups and other exercises, I'm stronger than I was when I was 19 years old.
00:21:04.000 That is a crazy journey, Howard.
00:21:06.000 That's crazy.
00:21:06.000 And it's only a part.
00:21:08.000 I mean, right now I'm co-designing.
00:21:09.000 So here I am, the guy who worked with Michael Jackson, Prince, Bob Marley, and all of those people.
00:21:14.000 And I'm co-designing a multi-planetary mission at Caltech right now.
00:21:18.000 I'm out here in California to do a bookstore reading, my first one on the West Coast for How I Accidentally Started in the 60s, my current book.
00:21:26.000 But then I have three presentations at the annual meeting of the National Space Society, and I'm on the Board of Governors of the National Space Society, and I've got some important things to do there.
00:21:36.000 And then they let me sit on the board meetings.
00:21:39.000 I used to be on both the board and the Board of Governors.
00:21:42.000 And there are some important things I need to help this group accomplish.
00:21:46.000 And then I go back to New York and get, hopefully, if I'm lucky, and my planes are on time, I get to New York in time to get some sleep.
00:21:55.000 And to get up and do an interview with a British filmmaker who's making a film about Prince.
00:22:04.000 In the meantime, there's a film being made about my life called Surf the Catastrophe.
00:22:08.000 It's a 60- to 90-minute film, and they're finally getting, after a year of shooting, they're getting down to the editing, and it's a three-time Grammy winner who is my director and one of the cameramen who's been with us through this whole thing.
00:22:23.000 A couple of Sundays ago, my director got his third Grammy, or Emmy, and one of my cameramen got his second Grammy.
00:22:39.000 Yeah, I was going to say that.
00:22:42.000 It seems like you get very energized when you're talking about the amount of different things you're doing all at once.
00:22:47.000 Yeah, it's fabulous.
00:22:53.000 I refuse to go into any niche.
00:22:56.000 I refuse to go into one specialization and see the walls close in on me and get buried there.
00:23:01.000 And my goal since I was 16 years old and working at the world's largest cancer research facility has been not to be a mole digging a hole so deep you can't see anything, but to be the eagle flying over the landscape and taking each of those mole holes as pixels.
00:23:16.000 In a big picture.
00:23:17.000 So I do all the sciences.
00:23:19.000 What is that term, autodidact?
00:23:21.000 Yes, autodidact.
00:23:23.000 Autodidact, right.
00:23:23.000 Well, I read two books a day from the time I was 10, and by the time I got to college, remember, I'm there at the age of 12 with the head of the graduate physics department, not just the physics department, the graduate physics department, and we're talking as equals,
00:23:40.000 which is really weird.
00:23:42.000 That's pretty weird.
00:23:43.000 So by the time I got to college, I ended up with four fellowships in neuroscience.
00:23:50.000 I realized that for me, graduate school would be the Auschwitz of the mind.
00:23:56.000 I felt I was in a boxcar on my way to the end of everything I wanted to understand in life.
00:24:02.000 Why is that?
00:24:03.000 Well, because since I was 12 or 13 years old, I wanted to take all the panorama, the full palette of the sciences, and I wanted to use them, among other things, to understand ecstatic experiences.
00:24:15.000 I wanted to understand...
00:24:17.000 How Hitler put together this performance, torchlight parades where 15 guys are walking down the streets abreast of each other carrying torches at 10 o'clock at night, and people on the Unterverlinden, the big boulevard, are packed so tight that if you pulled up your feet, you wouldn't topple over because the crowd would hold you up.
00:24:36.000 They were crowded in on either side of you, supporting you.
00:24:40.000 And people had a sense of being lifted out of themselves and having a transcendent experience and becoming part of three things.
00:24:47.000 Ein Volk, one tribe.
00:24:50.000 Ein Reich, one state.
00:25:09.000 Do you think that, in Hitler's case, that this was...
00:25:13.000 An accident?
00:25:15.000 No.
00:25:16.000 This is something that he designed?
00:25:17.000 Yes, he did design it.
00:25:19.000 He absolutely designed it.
00:25:20.000 So he knew that he could create this sort of ecstatic state in these people?
00:25:23.000 You bet.
00:25:25.000 He was an ecstatic.
00:25:27.000 And he was preaching to people to bring them to a state of ecstasy.
00:25:31.000 How did he know all this?
00:25:32.000 How did he know all this?
00:25:35.000 The way any artist...
00:25:36.000 Knows how to achieve things that he may never have seen achieved before in his life.
00:25:41.000 It's intuition.
00:25:42.000 We're all built with certain supernormal responses inside of us.
00:25:48.000 Certain gushes of emotion you can hit if you hit just the right stimulus.
00:25:53.000 And he hired Albert Speer to be his art director, so Albert Speer would art direct these massive events like this, but it was Hitler who would go into a state of ecstatic preaching, as if preaching in tongues, but preaching in one tongue, German,
00:26:09.000 and who could bring that audience to that ecstatic level.
00:26:15.000 Does it disturb you to study someone as fucked up as Hitler, though, and look for the genius in his approach, especially as a Jew?
00:26:22.000 Yeah, you bet your ass, of course.
00:26:25.000 But I figure if Hitler could use this for evil...
00:26:32.000 Sure.
00:26:37.000 Sure.
00:26:46.000 That's an ecstatic state.
00:26:48.000 Is this what was fascinating to you about rock in the first place that led you to become a publicist?
00:26:53.000 Right, because remember, if I'd gone to grad school, I would have been giving paper and pencil tests to 22 college students in exchange for one psychology credit.
00:27:01.000 Now, how much was I going to learn about mass ecstasies, the forces of history?
00:27:05.000 In that college class, nothing!
00:27:07.000 It's fascinating, though, that you had this foresight, because for many people, the idea of going to grad school and becoming a professor, like, that was the golden pot at the end of the rainbow.
00:27:18.000 And everybody knew I was going to be a college professor from the time I was 10 years old, but the closer I got to it, the more I realized that this is like being put in a sardine can and having the can welded over you.
00:27:31.000 It's a big mistake.
00:27:33.000 And I started a commercial art studio with a bunch of artists that I had worked with.
00:27:40.000 One day, I was in class.
00:27:42.000 I was very serious about poetry.
00:27:45.000 Poetry set a lot of the tones.
00:27:47.000 It taught me how to lead a life.
00:27:50.000 I mean, the love song of J. Alfred Prufrock says, Schmuck, listen up, the way that Einstein, except he doesn't, I mean, he's an anti-Semite, so he's not going to say Schmuck.
00:27:58.000 T.S. Eliot.
00:27:59.000 But he said, listen up.
00:28:00.000 If you don't start doing the heroic stuff that you feel will define you and bring young women crawling to your ankles and kissing your knees, if you have that in you, that vision of what you want to be, and you don't start it now, today, this hour...
00:28:17.000 You will put it off and put it off and put it off, and when you hit the age of 50, you'll suddenly realize you don't have the life force.
00:28:24.000 You don't have the life energy to do that anymore.
00:28:28.000 And your whole life will have been a failure.
00:28:32.000 So if you have something heroic to do, start it now.
00:28:37.000 So I was in a poetry class, because poetry had had a huge influence on my life.
00:28:42.000 And one day the poetry teacher, the poet in residence at NYU said, Bloom, when everybody leaves the classroom, close the door.
00:28:51.000 I need to talk to you.
00:28:52.000 Well, that doesn't sound good.
00:28:55.000 And he said, okay, he sat me in the balling out chair, and he said, look you, last year I asked you to be on the staff of the literary magazine.
00:29:02.000 You never even showed up.
00:29:04.000 This year I'm telling you, you are the literary magazine.
00:29:07.000 The minute you walk out that door, you're it.
00:29:09.000 You don't even have a faculty advisor.
00:29:11.000 Now get out that door.
00:29:12.000 Ha ha ha ha!
00:29:14.000 So, I turned it into an experimental graphics and literary magazine.
00:29:19.000 So I knew a bunch of artists, and one of them was being thrown out of his apartment, and it was the beginning of the summer.
00:29:25.000 His electricity was about to be cut off, his phone was about to be cut off, and his furniture had already been repossessed.
00:29:30.000 He and his wife and child were sitting on a bare rug floor, crying.
00:29:36.000 When I walked in and I said, look, you're a bloody genius.
00:29:40.000 Give me your portfolio.
00:29:41.000 I'll take it out for two weeks.
00:29:43.000 I'll get you work.
00:29:44.000 That'll allow you to pay your rent.
00:29:47.000 And then I can move on and get a proper summer job.
00:29:50.000 Well, it didn't turn out to be that easy.
00:29:52.000 By the end of the summer...
00:29:54.000 I hadn't gotten a single job.
00:29:56.000 I got New York Magazine interested in doing a feature on my art studio, but I hadn't gotten the artist and the other artists in the studio a single job.
00:30:03.000 And I'm an obsessive-compulsive.
00:30:05.000 So I called Columbia, where I was supposed to go to grad school, and said, you know, I have a back problem.
00:30:12.000 I won't be showing up this year.
00:30:13.000 Joe, the truth at any price, including the price of your life, is one of my religious principles.
00:30:17.000 It's the first rule of science.
00:30:19.000 The second rule of science is look at things right under your nose as if you've never seen them before, and then proceed from there.
00:30:24.000 The truth at any price, including the price of your life.
00:30:27.000 Yeah, so when people tell me, for example, about my book, The Muhammad Code, how a desert prophet brought you ISIS, Al-Qaeda, and Boko Haram, or how Muhammad had met in jihad.
00:30:36.000 So when people realized I was writing this, they said, you can't write that.
00:30:40.000 You'll get killed.
00:30:42.000 Who the fuck cares?
00:30:43.000 The first rule of science is the truth at any price, including the price of your life.
00:30:47.000 And if you tell me I can't write it because it's gonna get me killed, I know that it's doubly important for me to write this because nobody else is gonna have the guts to.
00:30:56.000 So it falls on me.
00:30:58.000 So screw that.
00:31:00.000 You seem to be approaching all these different things, whether it is sitting in the cafe, listening to music, being surrounded by people, poetry, the ecstatic state that you're studying when it comes to Hitler or rock music.
00:31:19.000 You seem to be looking at this as almost like a form of not necessarily uncharted energy, but undocumented.
00:31:30.000 Almost as if it's like there's fuel out there that you're tapping into and utilizing that you know that everybody's kind of aware of, but I don't think they're thinking about it the same way that you are.
00:31:44.000 No, and I'm looking at this in the context of everything from the Big Bang to what's going on in our brains while we're having this conversation in the future you and I are fashioning through our actions at this point.
00:31:54.000 I'm looking at this in terms of a very, very, very big picture.
00:31:57.000 And I get disturbed when it looks like I'm going to get typed, like I've spent so much time on space in the last few years that I'm afraid people are going to type me, and I refuse to be typed.
00:32:08.000 As the space guy.
00:32:09.000 Yeah, because I need to have access to every field that I can possibly understand because I'm in the process of putting together a big picture.
00:32:17.000 When you say you worry about being, I mean, after all you've accomplished, how could you be typed?
00:32:22.000 Oh, it's real easy.
00:32:23.000 But by who?
00:32:24.000 By fools?
00:32:26.000 Partly by myself.
00:32:28.000 But also by others.
00:32:30.000 Interesting.
00:32:30.000 By yourself.
00:32:31.000 Yeah.
00:32:32.000 You're worried about yourself.
00:32:34.000 Yes, I absolutely...
00:32:35.000 In order to be happy, I need to be in a dozen fields simultaneously.
00:32:40.000 That's fascinating.
00:32:41.000 I am much less intense about it, but I share a similar desire to be fascinated by many different things at the same time.
00:32:49.000 And you've got to see where they all fit together.
00:32:51.000 That's the real trick.
00:32:52.000 And the tool for this, for me...
00:32:56.000 When I was 12 years old, my parents...
00:32:58.000 I'd never paid attention in school.
00:33:00.000 I read two books a day.
00:33:01.000 That's it.
00:33:02.000 So I read a book under the desk.
00:33:03.000 Teacher?
00:33:04.000 Who cared about the teacher?
00:33:07.000 And my parents were going to send me off to a small private school, but they made me promise to work in school.
00:33:13.000 I'd never worked in school before, and I forget where I was going with this story.
00:33:18.000 But there is one experience I had in this little high school that's really relevant, and that is...
00:33:24.000 Okay, by the time I'm 16 years old, I've been after the ecstatic experience for four years in scientific terms.
00:33:30.000 When I'm 14 and hear about a book called The Varieties of the Religious Experience by William James, I spend four months looking for a copy of the book because there is no Amazon yet.
00:33:40.000 And finding books in Buffalo isn't that easy.
00:33:44.000 And then I'm 16 and I've been elected the head of the program committee in my school.
00:33:49.000 The program committee, this every day starts for the entire student body with a 45-minute Morning session.
00:33:56.000 And I emcee those sessions, and I program two of them.
00:34:01.000 So the juniors come to me, and they say, we're having a dance, could you please advertise our dance for us?
00:34:08.000 And they don't understand the irony of what they've just asked.
00:34:12.000 If there's a dance anywhere in Buffalo, New York, people want me to park my feet elsewhere, preferably in Cleveland or Houston, Texas.
00:34:20.000 And so this is a really weird request.
00:34:22.000 So I put a piece of music on the turntable behind the stage, and I get up on the stage, and I'm incompetent.
00:34:28.000 I can't dance.
00:34:29.000 I mean, I spent a year in dance class.
00:34:31.000 My parents were trying to make me normal.
00:34:32.000 It didn't work.
00:34:35.000 But I dance.
00:34:37.000 And it's not like any dance you've ever seen before in your life.
00:34:39.000 And I see the girl who hates me most.
00:34:41.000 I see her pupils start to dilate.
00:34:44.000 And then I see all of the pupils, 350 sets of pupils, 700 eyeballs, dilating.
00:34:51.000 And then I see their faces melting.
00:34:53.000 And then it feels as if their energy coalesces like a big amoeba and reaches out a pseudopod, and the pseudopod...
00:35:01.000 Sends itself through me and the energy goes up through me as if I were an empty pipe, reaches something just above my head and is transmogrified, utterly transformed and goes back down to the audience again in a continuous feedback loop.
00:35:16.000 And I have an out-of-body experience.
00:35:18.000 I'm convinced that I'm on the ceiling watching all of this happen.
00:35:22.000 That I'm not under any control from me.
00:35:25.000 I'm in control of this energy.
00:35:28.000 And finally, when it's all over, remember, these kids do not like me.
00:35:32.000 In this school.
00:35:33.000 Not at all.
00:35:34.000 And they do something as if they have practiced it all their lives.
00:35:39.000 And I know for a fact they have never done it before.
00:35:41.000 They surge down to the foot of the stage.
00:35:44.000 They pick me up on their shoulders.
00:35:46.000 They carry me out of the auditorium.
00:35:48.000 They carry me up the walkway to the building above where we have our classes and then they put me down.
00:35:53.000 They never did it before.
00:35:55.000 They never did it afterward.
00:35:56.000 Not for football stars.
00:35:58.000 Not for anything.
00:35:59.000 That's a scene in a movie.
00:36:01.000 I mean, it might be.
00:36:02.000 What is that for me?
00:36:04.000 Well, I've been after the ecstatic experience by then that carves the forces of history for four years of my bloody life.
00:36:12.000 What did you think you tapped into?
00:36:13.000 Did you think you had somehow or another manifested this?
00:36:16.000 No, I knew.
00:36:18.000 I tapped into a part of me that's in there.
00:36:21.000 I mean, when my parents...
00:36:23.000 Tried to drag me off.
00:36:24.000 Look, we're going back in time.
00:36:26.000 Let's go back to when I was about to be 13 years old, okay?
00:36:30.000 And I realized sometime when I was 12 and a half years old that I was an atheist.
00:36:35.000 I didn't believe in God.
00:36:36.000 12 and a half?
00:36:37.000 Yeah.
00:36:37.000 Why 12 and a half?
00:36:39.000 At 12, you're a true believer.
00:36:40.000 Six months in, you're like, fuck this.
00:36:42.000 It took me two and a half years of reading two books a day.
00:36:45.000 So, but I... You know, you can sometimes park something just out of consciousness in a closet of your mind and keep it there.
00:36:52.000 So I kept it there because I didn't want to miss out on the presence from my bar mitzvah.
00:36:57.000 And plus, it was the only party I was ever going to be invited to, my own bar mitzvah party, right?
00:37:02.000 Who could...
00:37:03.000 Right.
00:37:04.000 You've got to keep it together.
00:37:05.000 Yeah.
00:37:05.000 So it wasn't until after the bar mitzvah was over and all of the thank you notes had been written until I was able...
00:37:12.000 To admit that I'm an atheist.
00:37:14.000 So that means that my bar mitzvah is in June.
00:37:18.000 By the time I'm finished with all the thank-you notes, it's August.
00:37:21.000 Well, what's just around the corner?
00:37:22.000 September.
00:37:23.000 And in the Jewish calendar, the high holidays.
00:37:26.000 So my parents try to drag me off to high holidays.
00:37:29.000 And they get me as far as the street that the synagogue is on.
00:37:32.000 And then I refuse to go any further.
00:37:34.000 At 12 and a half?
00:37:36.000 Yeah.
00:37:36.000 Well, by now it's 13. Okay.
00:37:38.000 And so I'm hanging on to these sturdily American craftsman-built doors of the Fraser blue car my dad drives, and my parents are at my ankles, shredding my socks, trying to pull me up toward the synagogue, and I have a sudden realization.
00:37:57.000 Galileo had his insights by taking these new fangled devices called lenses, putting them in a tube, and pointing the tube, which was designed to be used for horizontal viewing, so you could see an army coming over the horizon towards you long before they could see you.
00:38:12.000 He takes this tube and he turns it in a totally unexpected direction up.
00:38:18.000 And another guy, Anton van Leeuwenhoek, who uses these same high-tech devices lenses because he's a draper.
00:38:25.000 He sells fabric.
00:38:26.000 So he uses his magnifying glass to see how tight the weave is in his fabric.
00:38:30.000 And his great innovation is to take these lenses and turn them down and look at pond water and look at his own sperm.
00:38:40.000 And I suddenly have this realization while my parents are shredding my socks and trying to drag me up to the synagogue.
00:38:47.000 There are no gods in the heavens.
00:38:48.000 There are no gods beneath the earth.
00:38:50.000 So where are the gods?
00:38:52.000 Right now, in this scene, they're in my parents, and they are tugging with astonishing force at my parents and my socks.
00:39:00.000 And if the gods are in my parents, then the gods are in me, too.
00:39:04.000 So my task in life is going to be to take that lens that Galileo turned up and that van Loonhoek turned down and turn it within to find the gods inside of us.
00:39:16.000 Meaning finding those ecstatic experiences.
00:39:19.000 And that dance experience was the most primal of these ecstatic, you could call them spiritual experiences, but for me it's secular.
00:39:32.000 Sorry.
00:39:33.000 Spirituality.
00:39:34.000 I got sex on the brain.
00:39:36.000 But that was the closest I was going to get to what Hitler had summoned forth.
00:39:44.000 Those speeches that Hitler gave, I don't understand German, but the intensity that he was giving these speeches out, and I've seen this before with radical Islam speakers or with many different religious leaders.
00:39:59.000 There's something about what they're doing that is almost contagious.
00:40:03.000 You see the energy that they're putting out.
00:40:08.000 It's so compelling.
00:40:09.000 It's a bizarre thing that human beings have.
00:40:14.000 Compulsion to pay attention to people that have achieved this extreme level of performance.
00:40:20.000 Well, because they seem locked into a truth.
00:40:23.000 That truth speaks itself through every muscle of their body.
00:40:26.000 If you're that confident to be like the preacher on stage shouting out to the heavens, and if you're that confident to have that much energy and conviction, there must be some truth to what you're saying.
00:40:36.000 And there is a good chance that you are having a kind of out-of-body experience of one kind or another because something deeper inside of you takes you over and performs through you.
00:40:45.000 It's not you, but of course it is you.
00:40:47.000 So if you were going to come to me when I was in the rock and roll business and you wanted to be my client, I would give you a lecture.
00:40:55.000 I would say...
00:40:57.000 You have to understand something.
00:40:58.000 If you are coming to me to fashion an image, to brand you, and to make you a superstar, I'll get you an appointment immediately, within the hour, with my best competitor.
00:41:13.000 But if you're going to work with me, you have to understand that music is not an exchange of pieces of plastic.
00:41:19.000 It is not an exchange of downloads.
00:41:21.000 It is not an exchange of money.
00:41:23.000 It's not about markets and branding and all of that stuff.
00:41:27.000 Music is about an exchange of human soul.
00:41:31.000 When you sit in front of a blank piece of paper at 2 o'clock in the afternoon to write a lyric, you know you can never write a lyric again because you have no idea of how you've ever written lyrics in the past.
00:41:40.000 And at 4 o'clock in the afternoon, very often there's a lyric there.
00:41:43.000 My job is to find the self inside you who wrote that lyric and introduce it to the self that says, hello, how are you?
00:41:50.000 Fine, thank you very much, and all the ritualistic aspects of life.
00:41:54.000 When you go on stage, you have the kind of experience that I had.
00:41:58.000 You are out of your own body.
00:42:02.000 You are danced around as if you were a marionette.
00:42:04.000 You feel 17,000 souls coursing through you to something higher, being transmogrified and channeling back to those people in a continuous loop.
00:42:14.000 My job is to find that soul inside of you that dances you on stage and introduce it to the self of, hello, how are you?
00:42:20.000 Fine, thank you very much.
00:42:21.000 So if you're willing to give me six weeks to study you and then come out to your environment and see you in your environment for anywhere from one to three days, my job is secular shamanism.
00:42:33.000 Find that fucking soul that dances you.
00:42:35.000 So you would go and hang out with them?
00:42:37.000 I'm not really hang out.
00:42:38.000 It would be a very intense interview with John Mellencamp.
00:42:41.000 We started at 9 o'clock in the morning at his home in Seymour, Indiana.
00:42:45.000 We finished at 4 o'clock in the afternoon.
00:42:47.000 John looked the way that he only looked when he came off stage.
00:42:51.000 He looked hollowed out.
00:42:53.000 He looked like a scarecrow.
00:42:55.000 He had empty caverns where his eyes should have been.
00:43:00.000 He was wiped.
00:43:01.000 He was totally wiped.
00:43:02.000 And that interview allowed me to find the authentic John Mellencamp and preach it to the press and turn the press who hated John Mellencamp around.
00:43:12.000 Why'd they hate him?
00:43:12.000 They hated him because he had signed with Tony DeFries, who was managing David Bowie.
00:43:19.000 And Tony DeFries thought that his magic came from changing people's names.
00:43:24.000 David Bowie had been named David Jones, and he had changed it to Bowie.
00:43:28.000 And so he called John Johnny Cougar.
00:43:31.000 And then he did something that sounds devilishly clever, but was the opposite of clever.
00:43:37.000 He had a book made with one page on each of all of the dominant critics of the day.
00:43:46.000 One page, a picture, a little write-up on each of them.
00:43:50.000 And the press perceived this as trying to buy them.
00:43:54.000 And they don't like being bought.
00:43:57.000 So they rebelled, and the word went out in the press that John Coorer was a prick, that he was just an obnoxious, horrible human being, and that his music was crap.
00:44:08.000 And so even my friend Ken Emerson, my impression from Ken, Ken was at that point the Record Reviews editor for Rolling Stone, and eventually he'd be an editor at the New York Times Sunday Magazine, a very influential magazine nationwide.
00:44:22.000 And My impression was that Ken wrote his review of John's album without ever opening the shrink wrap.
00:44:31.000 Without ever listening to it.
00:44:33.000 Because everybody was assumed in that community that you knew what John's music was.
00:44:38.000 Crap.
00:44:39.000 And you knew what his personality was.
00:44:41.000 Crap.
00:44:41.000 And if you open the album and listen to it, you would be expelled.
00:44:46.000 People would shun you.
00:44:48.000 At the next lunch.
00:44:49.000 They wouldn't want you there.
00:44:50.000 Or the next dinner.
00:44:51.000 So you shouldn't even listen to it because it's that bad.
00:44:54.000 Exactly.
00:44:55.000 You just, you had to, the group think had been established.
00:44:58.000 Yeah, and peer pressure is tremendous within the rock crit, or was tremendous within the rock crit establishment.
00:45:06.000 They had so much power back then, so crazy.
00:45:25.000 Wrote about the pop culture critics of his day.
00:45:28.000 In his day, pop culture was novels and plays.
00:45:33.000 And he compared them to sheep.
00:45:36.000 And he explained how if you take a cane and you put it out, the sheep walk in single file.
00:45:41.000 You can get 2,000 sheep all walking in single file.
00:45:44.000 And if you put your cane out in front of the lead sheep, and the lead sheep jumped over your cane, and then you withdrew the cane, Every one of the other 4,999 sheep would jump at precisely this same spot, even though there was nothing to jump over anymore.
00:46:02.000 Well, that's how I perceived the rock crit elite.
00:46:06.000 And my job was to turn them around.
00:46:08.000 But my job was also to see true ecstatics, like Prince.
00:46:13.000 Like John, Michael Jackson was not an ecstatic on stage.
00:46:16.000 Michael Jackson was an incredible, astonishing performer who had studied his craft from the age of nine.
00:46:23.000 And so he worked out every single move in advance.
00:46:27.000 John, you never knew from one night to the next what Prince or John Mellencamp were going to do in performance.
00:46:31.000 They didn't know.
00:46:32.000 How well did you know Michael Jackson?
00:46:35.000 I thought very, very well.
00:46:37.000 And he was the most remarkable person I've ever met in my life.
00:46:39.000 And when I tell people how remarkable, they don't believe me.
00:46:42.000 He was, you know, you and I and Jamie are on a certain level.
00:46:49.000 And...
00:46:50.000 We don't know we're on a certain level because we figure this is the range of humanity.
00:46:55.000 If we go out and meet anybody on the street or even anybody famous, I work with Buzz Aldrin these days, what we're going to encounter is another person pretty much like us.
00:47:04.000 Sorry, in Michael Jackson's case, he did not fit on this normal plane at all.
00:47:10.000 He was on a plane somewhere where you've never seen a human being before.
00:47:13.000 So, the first time I met him, We were at his brother Marlin's Pool house.
00:47:23.000 It's a little house with just enough room for one big room on the first floor and another big room on the second floor with a little tiny staircase between them.
00:47:31.000 And there's a billiard table in the middle of the room and there are arcade games, which at that point in particular, 1983, were unattainable.
00:47:42.000 No human could afford arcade games unless you were Steve Wynn and you were actually equipping an arcade.
00:47:49.000 So we're in this room, and Michael and I are standing next to each other.
00:47:54.000 So his left elbow is at my right elbow.
00:48:00.000 His left knee is at my right knee.
00:48:03.000 And we have a meeting with the art director from CBS. I'm condensing this story.
00:48:07.000 There's lots more.
00:48:08.000 But...
00:48:09.000 We're having a meeting with the art director, and she walks in with five of the most gorgeous portfolios you've ever seen in your life.
00:48:15.000 Hand-carved cherry wood, hand-carved leather, and these are from guys I know because I started in pop culture in the art business, and these were my legendary competitors.
00:48:27.000 And Michael opens...
00:48:31.000 The first page of the first portfolio, and he gets a square inch into it, a postage stamp size piece into it.
00:48:38.000 And he goes, oh, and his knees begin to buckle.
00:48:43.000 And he gets another two square inches into it, just lifts the page a little bit further.
00:48:50.000 Oh!
00:48:51.000 He lifts it even further.
00:48:53.000 Oh!
00:48:53.000 Michael is seeing the infinite in things that even the artist didn't see it, with such infinity as Michael is seeing it.
00:49:01.000 And by the time he gets to the full page, He's having a full-scale aesthetic orgasm.
00:49:08.000 I have never seen anything like this in my life.
00:49:11.000 And remember, the first two rules of science are the truth at any price, including the price of your life, and look at things right under your nose as if you've never seen them before and then proceed from there.
00:49:21.000 Michael is seeing the infinite in the tiniest of things, and you've never seen a human with this degree of awe, wonder, and surprise anywhere in your life.
00:49:31.000 And I will never see another human like that again in my lifetime.
00:49:35.000 Michael was beyond belief.
00:49:38.000 Utterly beyond belief.
00:49:40.000 And his commitment to his audience, to the people he called his kids...
00:49:44.000 Oh God, I forgot to turn this off.
00:49:46.000 We can't take the call.
00:49:51.000 Of course you're an android guy too.
00:49:54.000 Yes.
00:49:55.000 Oh God, how do we...
00:49:57.000 I know.
00:49:57.000 We pulled down from here.
00:49:59.000 I'm an incompetent with this stuff.
00:50:01.000 How could you be...
00:50:02.000 For people who don't see you right now, because a lot of people are listening, he has literally a Batman utility belt with two Kindles.
00:50:12.000 You have two Kindles strapped to you at all times.
00:50:15.000 Right.
00:50:15.000 You have the headphones for the podcast, but then underneath them you have other headphones.
00:50:19.000 I have...
00:50:23.000 What are you doing with them, chewing them?
00:50:41.000 Why is it the best quality sound on those cheap-ass headphones?
00:50:44.000 It has the best quality bass that I've ever gotten.
00:50:48.000 I have these Shures.
00:50:48.000 You know the ones that are like straight wires with clear covers.
00:50:53.000 I actually get very annoyed when Apple got rid of the microphone jack, the headphone jack on their phones.
00:50:58.000 Well, I would be annoyed too.
00:51:00.000 Yeah, because of that.
00:51:01.000 It's such a high-quality sound.
00:51:03.000 Right.
00:51:03.000 So I'm surrounded with electronic.
00:51:05.000 But when it comes to my phone, my phone and I do not agree on what a command is.
00:51:10.000 What does that mean?
00:51:11.000 Well, when I try to pick up the phone and answer it, it hangs up.
00:51:16.000 When I'm not trying to do anything on the phone, it interprets that as a hand gesture of some sort and does something wacky.
00:51:21.000 Which phone are you using?
00:51:22.000 The Samsung Note 8. Oh, okay.
00:51:25.000 Well, you know, some people think that Samsung's got a little bit of bloatware in their software.
00:51:30.000 Yeah.
00:51:30.000 Since you're an Android guy, have you ever considered using, like, a Google Pixel 2?
00:51:34.000 Well, I like a big screen.
00:51:38.000 Pixel 2 XL. It's a 6-inch screen.
00:51:41.000 Well, that would be very neat.
00:51:43.000 6.2 would be terrific.
00:51:45.000 And also, when you squeeze the sides, the Google Assistant pops up.
00:51:48.000 Yeah?
00:51:49.000 Yeah, you squeeze the sides and you start asking questions.
00:51:51.000 Neat.
00:51:52.000 Well, I need to find one that's also got the headphone jack on the top.
00:51:55.000 They don't have a headphone jack.
00:51:56.000 Google got rid of the headphone jack.
00:51:58.000 Oh, my God.
00:51:58.000 I know!
00:51:59.000 That's what I'm saying.
00:52:00.000 Because if you use Bluetooth, if it's tuned to your cell phone, you can't tune it to your Kindle.
00:52:09.000 And you can't tune it to your laptop.
00:52:11.000 And I need to be able to switch between those three devices.
00:52:14.000 Simultaneously, right?
00:52:15.000 So do you have that Kindle Fire HD application where you can listen to it and then as you're reading it, it picks up back where you were listening?
00:52:25.000 Well, it's supposed to do that, but sometimes it really wimps out and takes me 30 pages away from where I was reading, and it becomes hard to find where I was reading.
00:52:34.000 Oh, that's annoying.
00:52:35.000 I mean, you know, this is why I curse Jeff Bezos.
00:52:37.000 I hope he knows what he's doing in space better than he knows what he's doing with the Kindle HDX. Well, I just don't think he could possibly know all the things he's doing.
00:52:46.000 Yeah, but you hire good people who do know those things.
00:52:48.000 You try.
00:52:49.000 But isn't he supposed to be cheap?
00:52:51.000 In terms of how he pays workers at the Amazon factories?
00:52:54.000 I would imagine that when it comes to Blue Origin, his rocket company, that he is not cheap.
00:52:59.000 Oh, I didn't even know he had a rocket company.
00:53:01.000 Yes, he has a rocket company.
00:53:02.000 Does he think he's Elon Musk?
00:53:03.000 Yeah.
00:53:04.000 Look at you over there, Jeff.
00:53:05.000 He thinks that SpaceX and Elon Musk are the hare, and he's the tortoise.
00:53:12.000 So he has launched a rocket, the same rocket, eight times now, and landed it again.
00:53:18.000 Really?
00:53:18.000 Yes.
00:53:19.000 The same rocket?
00:53:19.000 The same rocket.
00:53:21.000 So he's demonstrated multiple reuse.
00:53:23.000 The problem is that his rocket can only get to the fringes of space.
00:53:28.000 It can't really get into orbital space.
00:53:30.000 Here he is right here.
00:53:31.000 Jamie just pulled it up.
00:53:32.000 You can look at it right there.
00:53:34.000 Yes, that's it.
00:53:35.000 Wow.
00:53:36.000 Is that real?
00:53:37.000 Is that real, Jamie?
00:53:38.000 That's totally real.
00:53:38.000 Why does it look fake?
00:53:40.000 Because you haven't seen it before.
00:53:41.000 I don't know.
00:53:42.000 Doesn't it look like CGI to you?
00:53:44.000 I sound like Eddie Bravo.
00:53:46.000 So it could be, but he's actually launched this thing eight times.
00:53:50.000 What's with the golf ball inside of there?
00:53:51.000 I have no clue.
00:53:53.000 It's probably demonstrating that it's weightless.
00:53:57.000 We live in an extraordinary time of super geniuses doing incredible shit.
00:54:01.000 And this is how it lands?
00:54:02.000 It lands the same way?
00:54:03.000 That's exactly it.
00:54:04.000 You got it.
00:54:05.000 That's incredible.
00:54:06.000 And Elon says, you know, that Elon's been landing his rockets.
00:54:11.000 And he's been reusing them.
00:54:13.000 I think he's done 11 reuses so far, something like that.
00:54:16.000 But Elon is saying that he's going to get so precise in his landings that the rockets will land precisely on the brackets from which they took off.
00:54:25.000 Wow.
00:54:27.000 That was on the same pad.
00:54:29.000 I mean, that was a fairly small pad that the Bezos rocket.
00:54:33.000 So Bezos is a very well-controlled rocket.
00:54:35.000 Elon's, you saw after the Falcon Heavy launch, the pictures of the two boosters landing simultaneously within 100 yards of each other.
00:54:45.000 I didn't see that.
00:54:45.000 I didn't watch it.
00:54:46.000 Oh, you have to bring that up sometime because it's an astonishing...
00:54:49.000 I like how Bezos is the Amazon Prime videos they're putting out.
00:54:54.000 They're putting out some really great shows.
00:54:55.000 They're putting out a lot of stand-up comedy now as well, which they're trying to somewhat compete with Netflix.
00:55:02.000 There it is right there.
00:55:09.000 Well, that's it.
00:55:11.000 That's the money shot.
00:55:13.000 The two rockets landing simultaneously.
00:55:16.000 So the goal here is, up until now, NASA, which has been dumbed down so much it's ridiculous by Congress and the Senate, because Congress and the Senate insist on designing their own rockets in order to produce jobs programs, not to get us to space.
00:55:33.000 Is that what the problem is?
00:55:34.000 It's a funding issue, too, right?
00:55:35.000 It's like you have to have immediate results for the amount of money that you put out.
00:55:39.000 It's worse than that.
00:55:40.000 There's a little thing called the Alabama Mafia.
00:55:43.000 It's a bunch of senators in Congress from Texas and Colorado and Mississippi and all the states that have rocket jobs.
00:55:49.000 And they have designed a rocket called the Space Launch System, and it's going to cost $30 billion to design it.
00:55:56.000 And it's a throwaway rocket, so it's going to cost $1 to $2 billion for each flight.
00:56:01.000 You think this is intentional?
00:56:03.000 It's intentionally, yes, it's intentionally stupid.
00:56:06.000 You think so?
00:56:06.000 Yeah, because it's designed for jobs.
00:56:09.000 And the result is we Americans haven't had access to space on American-made vehicles since 2011. That's a long time now.
00:56:17.000 That's a long time.
00:56:19.000 When we do get access to manned space, it's going to come from Elon Musk.
00:56:22.000 It's not going to come from any of the major space companies.
00:56:24.000 And $3 billion a year is sunk into this space launch system, this Turkey, and another Turkey called the Orion.
00:56:31.000 And that's money that needs...
00:56:33.000 We need that money to actually design...
00:56:36.000 Habitats on the moon, design mining equipment to mine the ice on the moon and turn it into rocket fuel and breathable oxygen and drinkable water.
00:56:46.000 And there are tons of things we need, but NASA's not producing them because it's trying to compete with Elon and Jeff.
00:56:52.000 Elon and Jeff know a secret.
00:56:53.000 If I volunteered to fly you to New York City, and I told you, I'm going to do this for free.
00:56:59.000 I'm not going to charge you a penny.
00:57:00.000 All you have to pay are the expenses.
00:57:02.000 And then I bought you a Boeing 737, and For $325,000 and allowed you and one friend to get into this thing, and then I flew you to New York, and then I flew the plane out into the Atlantic, over the Atlantic,
00:57:17.000 and plowed it into the Atlantic Ocean and discarded it.
00:57:20.000 Now, but I'm doing this all without charging you anything, you realize.
00:57:25.000 So, when you want to fly back from New York to California, I'll buy you another 737, another $325,000, and fly you back, and then I'll fly the 737 out over the Pacific, and I will ditch it.
00:57:40.000 This is the way we do space at NASA right now.
00:57:43.000 So how much would it cost you per ticket for you and a friend to go from LA to New York and back again?
00:57:52.000 Approximately $325,000 per ticket.
00:57:54.000 How often would you fly from LA to New York?
00:57:58.000 Not very often, if ever.
00:58:01.000 So that's what NASA is doing with this space launch system, and it's gobbling up so much money, there's no funding left for the stuff we really need to do.
00:58:09.000 Do you think it would be better if they just privatized the entire venture?
00:58:12.000 It would be better if they offered what are called COTS programs, where you ask companies to bid on getting a rocket wherever you want it to go, and doing with that rocket whatever you want it to do, and then let Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos and United Launch Alliance,
00:58:30.000 which is a big company underwritten by the government that is, I can never remember the names of the companies, but it's Boeing and Lockheed Martin combined.
00:58:38.000 And allow them all to bid on this.
00:58:42.000 Because Elon is going to bring it in for a tenth the cost.
00:58:45.000 Elon has developed the Falcon Heavy for approximately two billion dollars.
00:58:50.000 He's developed all of his rockets for approximately $2 billion for all of them.
00:58:54.000 It's costing NASA $30 billion to develop a turkey.
00:58:58.000 Now, how do they...
00:59:00.000 How do they keep doing that in the face of these guys like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos?
00:59:05.000 Congressman and Senators don't care.
00:59:07.000 They simply want to maintain the jobs in their districts.
00:59:10.000 Plus, if they feed the SMIC, the Space Military Industrial Complex, the Space Military Industrial Complex will kick back contributions to their campaign funds.
00:59:21.000 Hmm.
00:59:21.000 As a result.
00:59:23.000 Right.
00:59:23.000 So this is an evil spiral.
00:59:25.000 Buzz Aldrin calls these the Darth Vaders of space.
00:59:29.000 The Lockheed Martins and Northrop Grummans and the big aerospace, traditional aerospace contractors.
00:59:35.000 So Congress and a certain number, it's a cabal of senators and congressmen who are screwing us up because a country...
00:59:44.000 A country that dreams big gets big.
00:59:47.000 A country that looks up goes up.
00:59:49.000 A country that looks down goes down.
00:59:50.000 We've become accustomed to looking down because we don't have that glorious option.
00:59:57.000 The moon is way behind us.
00:59:59.000 Buzz and Neil Armstrong walking on the moon, that's a long time ago.
01:00:04.000 That's two generations, two and a half generations ago.
01:00:08.000 And kids in America have lost that dream of creating a paradise above the sky.
01:00:14.000 Because NASA's abandoned them, and NASA's been forced to abandon them by these congressmen and senators who steal this money from the NASA budget.
01:00:22.000 But if that money were used, look, that $3 billion a year would mean that you could develop an entire Elon Musk space program and launch Roughly 20 rockets.
01:00:33.000 But is the issue the actual engineers and the scientists themselves?
01:00:36.000 I mean, they must...
01:00:37.000 No, it's politicians.
01:00:38.000 Right, but the politicians, are they able to dictate what the actual scientists and engineers create?
01:00:43.000 Yep.
01:00:43.000 And say, hey, you must create something that is disposable?
01:00:48.000 Yes.
01:00:49.000 But is that really a conversation that's taken place?
01:00:52.000 Yes, because these guys have said, okay, we want to use space shuttle, leftover space shuttle technology, and they've mapped out the specifications of the rocket that they want.
01:01:06.000 Congressmen and senators.
01:01:07.000 Yes, that's right.
01:01:08.000 How's that possible?
01:01:09.000 Oh, it's easy.
01:01:10.000 That seems disgusting.
01:01:11.000 They control the budget, and one of the tricks that the SMIC, the Space Military Industrial Complex, has known for a long time, Is you try to parcel our jobs to as many states as possible.
01:01:22.000 So major programs like the latest fighter that the Air Force, the Navy are being told to use, those represent jobs in roughly 45 states each.
01:01:38.000 That means that if you're Lockheed Martin and you want to keep your contract for a plane that people are claiming can lose to a 1951-era MiG, all you have to do is hit the congressmen and senators from those 47 states.
01:01:55.000 And they'll all back you.
01:01:56.000 Why?
01:01:56.000 Because they're counting on your campaign contributions.
01:01:58.000 Where are you going to get the money to give them campaign contributions from that billion to three billion dollar nipple per year that NASA has been forced to extend to you or that the Air Force has been forced to extend to you?
01:02:11.000 It's a very corrupt system.
01:02:13.000 That's a dirty system.
01:02:14.000 And it means that the Russians and the Chinese can develop equivalent aircraft, for example, for one-tenth the price.
01:02:22.000 And deliver them for one-tenth the price.
01:02:24.000 Imagine where we would be.
01:02:24.000 I mean, you're totally talking about two super geniuses, Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk.
01:02:29.000 Imagine where we would be if they didn't exist.
01:02:31.000 Exactly.
01:02:32.000 The odds are very high that they wouldn't exist.
01:02:34.000 The odds are very high that somebody could do away with them.
01:02:36.000 It would be fairly easy.
01:02:38.000 Hey, don't even put that out there.
01:02:40.000 Yeah, well, the truth...
01:02:40.000 Come on, man.
01:02:41.000 On Friday, or no, Sunday, at the National Space Society's annual event, I'm talking about China's new Silk Road versus America's highway in the sky.
01:02:51.000 The new Silk Road, the Chinese government's going to put in a trillion dollars.
01:02:54.000 It's a total of a $20 trillion project.
01:02:57.000 It pulls together something like 66 countries and 3.3 billion people.
01:03:01.000 And I co-founded and chaired something called the Asian Space Technology Summit in Kuala Lumpur last May, just about exactly a year ago.
01:03:11.000 And it was obvious, being in Malaysia, that China has bought Malaysia's heart.
01:03:19.000 That Americans don't count for much anymore because the Chinese are already spending money.
01:03:24.000 They already own 15 to 20 ports.
01:03:26.000 They own 15 to 20 ports.
01:03:28.000 Piraeus, which is the port of Athens, the city that was the cradle of Western civilization, guess who owns it?
01:03:35.000 The Chinese.
01:03:36.000 And they're upgrading these ports to do things that no port we've ever seen before has been able to do.
01:03:41.000 So because they have a big vision, a really big vision, they're going to dominate the 21st century.
01:03:48.000 The 20th was the American century.
01:03:50.000 This is going to be the Chinese century, unless we counter with an equally big vision.
01:03:54.000 And the big visions are not coming from Donald Trump in Washington, D.C., or from senators and congressmen.
01:04:00.000 They are coming from precisely the people you fingered.
01:04:03.000 They're coming from Washington.
01:04:05.000 They're coming from California.
01:04:06.000 They're coming from Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos.
01:04:09.000 The two guys who can save us by opening a platinum highway in the sky.
01:04:14.000 What does that mean?
01:04:15.000 A platinum highway in the sky means a space economy.
01:04:18.000 One meteor called something like AMON-335 has more resources than the gross domestic product of England, France, Italy, and South Korea combined.
01:04:34.000 In one meteor.
01:04:35.000 In one meteor.
01:04:36.000 Oh, and I forgot to throw in India.
01:04:38.000 India's in that list, too.
01:04:39.000 Combined!
01:04:40.000 So is the idea to mine this meteor, to land on it?
01:04:43.000 Yes, exactly.
01:04:44.000 Somehow another extract resources and then bring them back to Earth?
01:04:46.000 But if NASA seriously wants us to develop that space economy, they have to do their part.
01:04:52.000 Elon and Jeff are bringing the rockets to the table right now, reusable rockets.
01:04:59.000 Like the 737s that we have now that we turn around in LA and send back to New York and then turn around in New York and send back to LA for 35 to 40 years each.
01:05:10.000 They amortize their costs.
01:05:12.000 They allow you to get a round-trip ticket for as low as $220 on a really good day.
01:05:17.000 That's what's happening with space.
01:05:19.000 But where's the mining equipment going to come from?
01:05:22.000 That's something NASA needs to be working on, plus the mining equipment for the moon.
01:05:27.000 To turn the moon basically into a fuel station for rockets.
01:05:30.000 Have you time to think about this while also thinking about all the other things you think about?
01:05:32.000 Because I do my best thinking when I'm thinking about 15 things at once.
01:05:36.000 And that's why the music is there, because my mind is empty if I don't have, because that's another thread going on at the same time.
01:05:42.000 I want to bring you back to something you said earlier that you sort of glossed over, but you were talking about quantum physicists getting everything wrong.
01:05:50.000 So I flew to Moscow.
01:05:53.000 No, and I've debunked that in a book called The God Problem, how a godless cosmos creates that has five heresies, and heresy number one is that A does not equal A. That's Aristotle's primary law of identity.
01:06:08.000 No, it's not always true.
01:06:10.000 One of the laws is the theory of entropy is so fucking wrong that it just defies it.
01:06:16.000 Okay, entropy means that everything is falling apart constantly.
01:06:19.000 And that in order to make something positive happen, you have to shed more negative energy, not really negative energy, more dispersed waste energy.
01:06:27.000 And in fact, the universe doesn't work like that.
01:06:30.000 The universe, in the very beginning, it formed quarks from nothing but motion.
01:06:37.000 Quarks from motion?
01:06:38.000 Are you kidding me?
01:06:39.000 Yeah.
01:06:39.000 The first things from movement?
01:06:42.000 Are you joshing?
01:06:43.000 No.
01:06:44.000 And then the quarks had to get together in groups of three, because this is a profoundly social universe, so they couldn't survive.
01:06:50.000 And one form of quark like this, with one up and two down or something like that, is a neutron.
01:06:55.000 And the other direction, three quarks, is a proton.
01:07:00.000 And all of this is anti-entropic.
01:07:04.000 And then what do all of these billiard balls do?
01:07:07.000 What do all these particles do?
01:07:09.000 380,000 years later, they begin to sweep themselves together in these massive social agglomerations that look like big potatoes.
01:07:16.000 And those are the beginnings of galaxies before they form their spiral arms and stuff like that.
01:07:22.000 And then within the The spiral arms of these galaxies, gravity balls, are competing with each other to see who's the biggest gravity ball and the biggest wins, and what does he do to the losers?
01:07:34.000 He swallows them and gets even bigger, which makes it possible for that gravity ball to confront another bunch of gravity balls and beat them out for size and swallow them.
01:07:44.000 Eventually, what happens is you get so much gravity and so much matter in this gravity ball that the gravity ball explodes.
01:07:51.000 That's called a sun, a star.
01:07:54.000 And around it are smaller gravity balls that manage to hold their own in competitions.
01:07:59.000 And they're planets and moons.
01:08:02.000 How the hell do you go even this short distance into the life of a galaxy that's been around for 13.7 billion years with precisely the opposite of entropy happening?
01:08:11.000 What is the official definition of entropy?
01:08:13.000 How is it defined by Webster's Dictionary?
01:08:37.000 Do you know?
01:08:37.000 Wants you to believe in something that's impossible.
01:08:39.000 Remember the Red Queen or the White Queen in Alice in Wonderland said, sometimes I dream up six impossible things before breakfast.
01:08:46.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:08:47.000 And you have to pass the test by showing that you believe in something that's obviously fatuously wrong.
01:08:53.000 And the shibboleth for being considered a legitimate scientist is preaching allegiance To pledging allegiance to entropy.
01:09:03.000 Pull it up.
01:09:04.000 Let me see what it says here.
01:09:05.000 Okay.
01:09:05.000 It says, a measure of the unavailable energy in a closed thermodynamic system that is also usually considered to be a measure of the system's disorder that is a property of the system's state And that varies directly with any reversible change in heat in the system and inversely with the temperature of the system broadly,
01:09:32.000 the degree of disorder or uncertainty in a system.
01:09:35.000 So that's what they're saying it is.
01:09:37.000 The degree of disorder or uncertainty in a system.
01:09:41.000 Obviously, that's a very lucid explanation, and you could recite it to a five-year-old and he'd understand exactly what you were saying, or to your grandmother.
01:09:49.000 No, it is a little Weasley!
01:09:49.000 It is a little Weasley, right.
01:09:51.000 It's very Weasley.
01:09:53.000 It has lots of outs.
01:09:55.000 So, my book, The God Problem, How a Godless Cosmos Creates, debunks that along with a bunch of other assumptions in current science.
01:10:03.000 Why does that assumption exist, do you believe?
01:10:06.000 Because in the 19th century, when this was formulated, the metaphor of the day was the steam engine.
01:10:14.000 It was the hot new technology.
01:10:16.000 It was to the 19th century what computers are to the 22nd century, or whatever we're living in now.
01:10:21.000 The 21st century, sorry.
01:10:24.000 And...
01:10:25.000 So, what they realized was, you take this steam, and you push it into a piston, and it throws that piston up into the air, and then the piston comes back down again.
01:10:37.000 But then, there's waste.
01:10:40.000 The steam then has lost its energy, and it comes out of an exhaust valve, and you put in more hot steam, right?
01:10:49.000 So, this was a theory about the waste.
01:10:53.000 That comes out of the steam engine.
01:10:56.000 But now that we don't have...
01:10:57.000 I mean, cars, yes, they produce exhaust.
01:11:00.000 Now, would you say that...
01:11:02.000 Solar power.
01:11:03.000 And solar power does not produce exhaust.
01:11:06.000 So, where's the entropy?
01:11:07.000 Right.
01:11:08.000 But where's the entropy in that story of the universe, I was telling you?
01:11:10.000 Would it be the degradation of the batteries?
01:11:12.000 Because, I mean, they are all...
01:11:13.000 Yes, that could be, but it's a squidge.
01:11:19.000 Compared to the construction of a Sun.
01:11:21.000 It's a squidge compared to the construction of a galaxy.
01:11:24.000 And all that random stuff in the universe, all those random particles, first of all, they're not random.
01:11:31.000 They all participate in something.
01:11:32.000 The universe rings like a gong in its early days.
01:11:35.000 It has pressure waves.
01:11:37.000 That means that these elementary particles are squooching together.
01:11:41.000 And forming a wave.
01:11:42.000 Is that a technical term?
01:11:44.000 Yes.
01:11:44.000 And then they're squinching apart and they're forming a trough.
01:11:48.000 And then they're squinching together again.
01:11:50.000 And that wave ripples across the cosmos the way that you see waves rippling across the Pacific when you're flying to Hawaii.
01:11:59.000 Is that entropic?
01:12:00.000 Is that disorder constantly increasing?
01:12:04.000 No, it's the very opposite.
01:12:05.000 What the universe does, it takes every form of waste and turns it into an opportunity.
01:12:11.000 I mean, we call this place Earth.
01:12:14.000 What are we naming it for?
01:12:16.000 The excreta of worms.
01:12:18.000 The shit of worms.
01:12:20.000 Because they produced what we call soil.
01:12:23.000 Well, think of the meaning of that word soil.
01:12:25.000 When something is soiled, what is it like?
01:12:28.000 It's not covered with earthy loam.
01:12:32.000 It's dirty.
01:12:36.000 And we call it dirt when it's in the earth.
01:12:39.000 So we are taking this entropic stuff, the shit that came out of worms, and we're farming in it.
01:12:46.000 And plants are growing in it.
01:12:47.000 Trees are growing in it.
01:12:49.000 Flowers are growing in it.
01:12:50.000 Is that entropy?
01:12:51.000 Is that a continual slide toward disorder?
01:12:54.000 It's the very opposite.
01:12:55.000 It's a continual slide toward order.
01:12:58.000 And higher degrees of form.
01:13:00.000 How has this theory been received?
01:13:04.000 Well...
01:13:05.000 Or your interpretation of it?
01:13:07.000 That's a good question, because I really have no answer.
01:13:12.000 The people who I sent the book to in the early days, all of them except...
01:13:17.000 Including a Nobel Prize winner and, I think, three MacArthur Genius Award winners all said, this is a great book.
01:13:24.000 And one compared it to Charles Lyell's History of the Earth, which gave Darwin a lot of ideas, and to Darwin's Origin of the Species.
01:13:35.000 And asked, is this really a great book, like those two books?
01:13:38.000 And the answer has been, yes!
01:13:41.000 And this is the Lucifer principle?
01:13:42.000 No, this is the God problem, how he got all his cosmos creates.
01:13:45.000 And let's not forget, for the sake of the audience, we're actually here to promote How I Accidentally Started the 60s, which is my newest book.
01:13:53.000 Fifth book?
01:13:53.000 It's my sixth book.
01:13:56.000 Sixth book.
01:13:56.000 But it was actually written during those five years when I couldn't talk.
01:14:01.000 The first draft was written during those five years.
01:14:03.000 So there I was laying in bed not able to talk, and I know from all of my research that when you are a human who feels of no value to your fellow human beings, you begin to die.
01:14:13.000 Your immune system goes into under...
01:14:17.000 Yeah.
01:14:30.000 What did I do?
01:14:31.000 I figured, okay, most sick people churn out what are called repulsion cues.
01:14:36.000 Cues that drive other people away.
01:14:38.000 They don't want to be near you when you're sick and suffering.
01:14:40.000 They really don't.
01:14:41.000 Kind as they may be.
01:14:43.000 So you have to put out attraction cues, the opposite of repulsion cues.
01:14:47.000 And what's an A number one attraction cue?
01:14:51.000 It's humor.
01:14:52.000 So there I was reading Dave Barry and reading P.G. Wodehouse, and these guys were lifting me for an hour or two above my misery, giving me this transcendent humor that just took me out of my state at that point.
01:15:04.000 So I tried to write transcendent humor, and I wrote this story of how I accidentally helped form a movement on the West Coast that had no name, and then I left the country, and when I got back, the Loose Empire, the Time Life Empire, had given it a name.
01:15:20.000 They called it the Hippie Movement.
01:15:22.000 And I tried to write it in as funny a manner as possible.
01:15:26.000 And then when I was finished writing it, I wrote, because I couldn't talk, I wrote a letter.
01:15:31.000 In those days, they had to be snail-mailed, because most people didn't have email back then.
01:15:35.000 I did, but most people didn't.
01:15:38.000 And I snail-mailed my friend Eric Gardner, because Eric Gardner had started out in the music business as a roadie for the Jefferson Airplane.
01:15:47.000 And I wrote Eric and said, Eric, I've just written this book.
01:15:51.000 Could you get it to the Jefferson Airplane?
01:15:53.000 Because if I could get them to say something positive about it, that validated it, because they were a key act in the 1960s.
01:16:00.000 And Eric said, no, no, no, I have somebody better.
01:16:04.000 Send me the manuscript.
01:16:06.000 So I sent him the manuscript, and he got the manuscript to this other client of his.
01:16:09.000 And the other client came back with a quote that said, it's a monumental masterpiece of American literature and filled with wow, woo, and aha experiences and nonstop waves of scientific comedy routines and nonstop waves of hilarity and compared it to James Joyce and said, wow, woo, aha, and signed it,
01:16:26.000 Timothy Leary.
01:16:27.000 And I thought, this can't be for real.
01:16:29.000 This just can't be for real.
01:16:31.000 But it was 1995. And what I didn't know, it took me 15 years to find out, is that Timothy Leary got this book when he was sick in bed like I was.
01:16:42.000 He was dying of prostate cancer.
01:16:44.000 This book reached him six months before he would die of prostate cancer.
01:16:48.000 And I had written the book to be on a plane of humor that would yank you out of your body and yank you up to an ethereal plane of humor.
01:16:56.000 Because you were trying to do that to yourself.
01:16:58.000 Since these two guys had done it for me, I needed to do my best to do it for others, and to attract people to stick with me, because I sent these things out as letters, the chapters out as letters, to friends, hoping a few friends would still stick with me.
01:17:11.000 And when Leary read it, apparently it did for him what Wodehouse and Dave Barry had done for me, and I was stunned when I found that out.
01:17:23.000 Absolutely stunned.
01:17:25.000 So yes, Virginia, you can be in the worst of all possible circumstances, and you can pull together something from those circumstances as a gift to your fellow humans.
01:17:34.000 And yes, you will doubt that it will ever be of value to any human on the planet, because that's how us humans feel about most of our endeavors.
01:17:43.000 But someday it just may save somebody who's in a position equivalent to yours.
01:17:49.000 That's amazing.
01:17:50.000 That is amazing.
01:17:52.000 What are the other things that the quantum physicists got wrong?
01:17:56.000 Well, all of them.
01:17:59.000 It was a four-day conference in a pension just outside Moscow, 50 miles outside of Moscow.
01:18:05.000 It was a worker's paradise built in the 1960s.
01:18:11.000 And all the people there, all the physicists, were going around drawing the same diagram on napkins to explain what they were talking about.
01:18:17.000 And it's a diagram of how Schrodinger's equation manifests itself in one single isolated electron.
01:18:23.000 Well, guess what, Joe?
01:18:24.000 There's no such thing as an isolated electron in this universe.
01:18:28.000 There's no such thing as an isolated quanta of light, an isolated photon of light.
01:18:36.000 There's no such thing as an isolated anything.
01:18:38.000 I mean, when you look up at the night sky, what do you see?
01:18:42.000 Some of those stars are 13 billion light years away.
01:18:48.000 It's taken 13 billion years for that light to get to us.
01:18:51.000 But we can still see those lights with a telescope.
01:18:55.000 If there is light flooding the entire universe from those stars, how could there ever be a particle living on its own, not awash in light, gravitational effects, electromagnetic effects, from all the other things in the universe?
01:19:11.000 Or at least a good many of them.
01:19:13.000 So why is this misconception prevalent?
01:19:15.000 It because the equation fits certain very artificial experiments that were set up in the lab.
01:19:23.000 And once an experiment is done and accepted, then everybody who doesn't get the same results thinks he's doing it wrong and does it over and over again until he gets the same results.
01:19:33.000 And the explanation, for some reason...
01:19:37.000 A lot of people in this universe think we're on our own.
01:19:40.000 No, we're never on our own.
01:19:41.000 We're always under the influence of other human beings, and look at the stars.
01:19:46.000 Only the light is reaching us.
01:19:48.000 They're not determining whether your girlfriend's going to argue with you tomorrow like your horoscope says, but there's that influence of merely being able to see them.
01:19:55.000 So I was basically lecturing these guys about a social cosmos.
01:19:59.000 In which conversation, information exchange is constantly taking place, all over the place.
01:20:05.000 And the fact that Trobinger's equation assumes an isolated entity, and there are no isolated entities in this universe.
01:20:13.000 And when I was finished, I expected them to throw me out of their conference.
01:20:19.000 And instead, they sat there as if this had been my bar mitzvah, and I'd just done a haftorah, or whatever it's called that you do at a bar mitzvah, and they were my uncles.
01:20:28.000 They were all sitting back, their faces were beaming, they were smiling.
01:20:32.000 You know that radiance, that redness that infects a face that's excited about something?
01:20:37.000 It was astonishing, and I couldn't understand why.
01:20:41.000 And then three years later, I have a collaborator in theoretical physics, Pavel Karakin, of the Keldish Institute of Applied Mathematics of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
01:20:49.000 And Pavel emailed me and said, Dr. Uzhikov, the man who ran that conference, the man who gave you such a hard time about your credit card, he's just written a book.
01:20:59.000 You have to download it from Arxiv.org, which is the leading site for preprints in advanced mathematics and advanced theoretical physics in the world.
01:21:07.000 And so I downloaded it, put it on my Kindle, and listened to the first half while I was taking my afternoon walk.
01:21:13.000 These long walks through the park can be very helpful.
01:21:16.000 And when I got to the cafe where I was working in those days and got my laptop in front of me, I wrote to Dr. Užakov, and I said, Dr. Užakov, I don't know if you remember me.
01:21:26.000 I'm that crazy American who spoke at your conference, but I've just read the first half of your book, and it's phenomenal.
01:21:31.000 He used every concept that I had given in my presentation.
01:21:35.000 Every concept.
01:21:36.000 And I got one of those almost instant emails back, an email that comes within two or three hours, and Ushkov said, remember you?
01:21:45.000 Didn't you read the first half of my book?
01:21:48.000 And we are credited in there, my partner Pavel and I. So, to at least a bunch of quantum physicists from 11 time zones gathering in Moscow, what I was saying made sense.
01:22:02.000 Quantum physics doesn't make sense to me.
01:22:05.000 I've tried.
01:22:06.000 I've tried really hard.
01:22:07.000 It makes about the same sense as that definition you were just reading of entropy.
01:22:11.000 Exactly.
01:22:11.000 I'll go over it and over it again and get little chunks of it, and I would understand, like, sections of sentences, and then I'd have to try to put them together with the other sections.
01:22:21.000 It's hard.
01:22:21.000 It's tough stuff.
01:22:22.000 But one of the most important things, I think it was Niels Bohr who said this, I'm not quite sure, but one of the members of the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum physics said, said that basically a particle exists in many states simultaneously, and it's not until it's measured that it collapses into one state.
01:22:39.000 That's one of the basic principles of quantum physics.
01:22:42.000 Well, guess what, Niels?
01:22:44.000 Every particle is being measured in some way all the time, all of its life, by other particles that are basically taking its measure and then responding.
01:22:53.000 Essentially nothing is isolated.
01:22:56.000 Nothing is isolated in this particular cosmos.
01:22:59.000 I watched a video where you were talking about that there is essentially a universal brain.
01:23:05.000 Well, yes, because you and I, right now, we're going to be talking to possibly out of your 500, where it's more like 1 million total viewers and listeners.
01:23:18.000 It's probably more than that.
01:23:20.000 I think it's probably closer to 3. Yeah, so we're going to be talking to, let's say, 100,000 of them or 200,000 of them.
01:23:27.000 And they're processing what we are saying.
01:23:30.000 Right now, there are bacteria in your gut and mine who live in enormous colonies, an enormous bacterial colony.
01:23:36.000 If you had it on the palm of your hand, it would be the size of your hand, but you couldn't see it.
01:23:39.000 Are you thinking of this while you're saying it?
01:23:42.000 Are you thinking of the vast numbers of people that are listening and watching?
01:23:45.000 Or are you just relaying the information?
01:23:48.000 Like, are you...
01:23:49.000 Are you cognizant?
01:23:51.000 Yeah, both.
01:23:52.000 Both.
01:23:53.000 Because I want...
01:23:54.000 Remember, Einstein gave me my marching orders.
01:23:56.000 You have to take complex ideas and simplify them so much that anyone with a high school education and a reasonable degree of intelligence can understand them.
01:24:04.000 And I want to make good radio for your audience.
01:24:07.000 But once you...
01:24:07.000 What I'm trying to get at is once you have got it established in your head that nothing is isolated, that everything is connected, when you speak, are you aware when you're speaking that everything is connected?
01:24:19.000 I mean, are you actually consciously thinking of all of these different minds, taking into account all these different mind-blowing things that you're saying, and then applying them out in the world?
01:24:31.000 I think so.
01:24:33.000 I mean, you know, if you hear it coming out of my mouth, that's what's churning around in my brain.
01:24:37.000 You're such a bright guy.
01:24:39.000 I'm just trying to understand if you're in the moment, or if you're in the moment as well as being consciously aware of the spread of information.
01:24:48.000 Well, my obligation is to do both simultaneously.
01:24:51.000 Both simultaneously.
01:24:51.000 Yeah.
01:24:52.000 That's my obligation.
01:24:53.000 That's what I assumed.
01:24:54.000 Yeah.
01:24:55.000 So, at any rate, so the...
01:24:58.000 The entropic theory doesn't make any sense.
01:25:01.000 I mean, look, there I was in a bed, right?
01:25:04.000 So you would think I'm totally isolated.
01:25:06.000 I'm not.
01:25:07.000 I'm not.
01:25:08.000 I mean, once upon a time I wrote an essay about Descartes.
01:25:11.000 Well, Descartes came up with the idea of, I think, therefore I am.
01:25:15.000 He took a retreat in Amsterdam.
01:25:18.000 He rented a second-floor apartment, and he was trying to isolate himself the way that those particles are isolated with the Schrodinger's equation, the particles that were being drawn on napkins in Moscow, so that he could strip everything away and find out what was the most basic...
01:25:36.000 The most basic axiom, the most basic thing we take for granted in life.
01:25:41.000 And he came up with, I think, therefore I am.
01:25:43.000 Now, think about this for a minute.
01:25:46.000 While he was trying to think this out, he was needing a rubbery gum eraser with which he erased his ink.
01:25:54.000 He was sitting on the second floor, which means somebody had invented the architecture that he was sitting in and the concept of the floor and the concept of beams that go across from one wall to the other that were holding him up.
01:26:05.000 He was looking out the window and he was looking at the hats that the Amsterdam men and women were wearing as they walked by, and he was fucking the cleaning lady whom he made pregnant.
01:26:15.000 So how isolated really was he?
01:26:19.000 The universal mind theory, or this concept, I shouldn't say theory, the way you were describing it is very interesting.
01:26:28.000 That there is no individual thought.
01:26:32.000 Oh, there's lots of individual thought.
01:26:34.000 But it's all connected.
01:26:36.000 Right.
01:26:47.000 Right.
01:27:07.000 The universe, at least the living part of the universe, and so far we only know of life on this planet, it's all interconnected.
01:27:14.000 Those bacteria I was talking about, they're in your gut.
01:27:17.000 They are making your vitamin B. They are making your vitamin K. They are making an awful lot of the things that you use to survive.
01:27:23.000 They're also making chemicals that influence your mind and your moods.
01:27:27.000 They're manipulating you.
01:27:29.000 So when you go down to the corner store, To buy some chocolate eclairs, and you go home and you eat them.
01:27:37.000 In fact, you can only digest a small portion of the chocolate eclair.
01:27:40.000 Those bacterial colonies living in your gut, they do the rest of the digesting for you.
01:27:45.000 So, who's really going to the corner store?
01:27:49.000 Who's really the boss?
01:27:50.000 Who's really driving you, the vehicle of transportation?
01:27:54.000 Are these bacteria driving you down to the corner store so that you will feed them the stuff that they love the most?
01:28:00.000 Or is your will driving you to the coroner's store?
01:28:03.000 Well, the answer is a little of both.
01:28:06.000 A little of both.
01:28:08.000 Not as much of both.
01:28:09.000 I mean, there's this example of...
01:28:12.000 There's this fungus.
01:28:15.000 And the fungus has a very peculiar lifestyle, and I'm very curious to find out how it got this lifestyle.
01:28:21.000 But it lives half of its life in an ant colony, and half of its life in a sheep.
01:28:26.000 So when it comes out of the phase that it goes through in the ant colony and is ready to go into the sheep, it takes over the brain of an ant.
01:28:36.000 And it gets that ant to climb to the top of a stalk of grass.
01:28:42.000 Why?
01:28:42.000 Because when the sheep come along to graze, they will inhale the ant.
01:28:47.000 What?
01:28:48.000 You're telling me that a fungus can control the mind of an ant in ways that we're just beginning to explore now, this year, and maybe last year a tiny little bit?
01:29:00.000 That it can actually be that precise in how it takes over the controls of that mind?
01:29:05.000 Is this related to one of those, the fungus that gets inside those ants and...
01:29:08.000 The ants are aware of it, so they take the ant away because the ant will explode and spray spores into the air and it will infect the colony.
01:29:16.000 Oh, I'm not aware of that one, but it sounds...
01:29:18.000 Cordyceps?
01:29:19.000 Yeah, but it sounds similar.
01:29:21.000 But the real deal is, okay, life on this earth functions the way that a beehive functions.
01:29:28.000 And how does a beehive function?
01:29:29.000 95% of the bees...
01:29:32.000 Are conformist bees.
01:29:34.000 And they go out to the hot flower patch of the day, and they mine the nectar, and they have a public stomach in which they can carry this stuff.
01:29:42.000 I mean, built into them, inside of them.
01:29:44.000 And they have these carrying hairs on their thighs, and they carry pollen in those.
01:29:50.000 And when they arrive at the unloading bay, there is an unloading bay in the hive.
01:29:55.000 And when they arrive at the unloading bay, if the unloaders know that the interior really needs pollen and nectar, And they see you carrying that pollen and nectar.
01:30:05.000 They stick their tongues down your throat to check out what's in your public stomach.
01:30:09.000 They go wild with excitement when they discover it's filled with nectar.
01:30:12.000 They check out your thighs, the carrying hairs on your thighs.
01:30:16.000 They go wild when they see that you're carrying pollen.
01:30:19.000 They feel you all over with their antennae.
01:30:21.000 They are intensely excited when they are unloading you.
01:30:24.000 And that gets you excited.
01:30:25.000 You feel like a rock star.
01:30:27.000 Because this is the same kind of attention a rock star gets.
01:30:30.000 So you go back out to the flower patch of the day and mine some more.
01:30:35.000 Meanwhile, there are these lazy, good-for-nothing bohemian bees.
01:30:39.000 They're anywhere from 5% to 20% of the colony.
01:30:43.000 And they don't do a single useful thing at all.
01:30:46.000 And so far as you can see, they don't do anything to earn their keep in the colony.
01:30:50.000 Why?
01:30:51.000 Because they're out doing loop after loop after loop and lazy eights after lazy eights after lazy eights.
01:30:58.000 They'll fly eight miles just following their whims.
01:31:01.000 Following their whims.
01:31:03.000 I mean, if you were their mother, what would you say?
01:31:06.000 You're wasting your fucking life, for God's sakes.
01:31:08.000 Okay, eventually you, the conformist bee, start coming back without pollen in your caring hairs, and without nectar in your public stomach, because the flower patch, the hot flower patch of the day, has been thoroughly plundered.
01:31:21.000 And when you arrive at the unloading dock of the hive, the unloading bees stick their tongue into your public stomach, empty, sorry.
01:31:29.000 They see your caring hairs, empty.
01:31:32.000 They turn their backs on you so savagely that you feel as if you've been cut dead.
01:31:37.000 And it finally, I mean, you can't believe that the old factory's not delivering anymore, and it's not giving you a paycheck, so you keep going back to the same patch over and over again, more slowly each time, until finally you give up, and you literally crawl into the hive.
01:31:52.000 And Thomas Seeley, the guy who's done most of the research on this, calls you an unemployed bee.
01:31:59.000 And you are as depressed as if you were unemployed.
01:32:01.000 How do we know that?
01:32:02.000 Because your body temperature is down and you're crawling instead of walking.
01:32:06.000 And you're begging for food from other bees.
01:32:09.000 Well, you look for something to perk you up.
01:32:13.000 Now, what do humans use?
01:32:14.000 A football game.
01:32:15.000 A movie.
01:32:17.000 Bees use pretty much the same thing.
01:32:19.000 What does that mean?
01:32:20.000 They go to the unloading dock, Out of the 200 lazy, good-for-nothing bohemian bees simply following their instincts, five have come back having found new flower patches.
01:32:32.000 And they are dancing.
01:32:33.000 And the dancing excites you.
01:32:35.000 And they're dancing in competition with each other.
01:32:38.000 Some will dance 27 seconds.
01:32:40.000 Some will dance 27 minutes.
01:32:42.000 And if you find the dance of one of those dancers sufficiently persuasive, it lifts you out of your lethargy.
01:32:49.000 Gets you excited and you fly out.
01:32:52.000 She's giving a little in a little figure eight dance.
01:32:55.000 She is giving precise instructions on how to get to the flower patch and what the headwinds are and what the tailwinds are.
01:33:01.000 And you pick up her message.
01:33:03.000 You fly out to the flower patch that she has recommended and you check it out for yourself.
01:33:07.000 And if you get excited about it, you come back and you start dancing.
01:33:12.000 And ultimately the bee who gets the greatest number of backup dancers wins.
01:33:17.000 And you all go out, all you conformist bees who are now unemployed, go out to the new hot flower patch of the day and the same pattern repeats itself.
01:33:25.000 Now that's a collective mind operating on the basis of 20,000 independent bees.
01:33:30.000 And the living world Operates in pretty much the same way.
01:33:37.000 Bacteria are using you to get them chocolate eclairs.
01:33:40.000 You are using them to digest chocolate eclairs.
01:33:44.000 They are teasing our scientists into wild activity by threatening to develop illnesses that can bypass all of our antibiotics.
01:33:52.000 Which, by the way, are chemical weapons that microorganisms, colonies of microorganisms use to kill entire competing colonies.
01:34:01.000 We stole them from microorganisms.
01:34:03.000 We didn't invent them.
01:34:05.000 Antibiotics.
01:34:06.000 So, the scientists are very aware of the fact that the bacteria are getting ahead of us in research and development.
01:34:13.000 And are beginning to develop techniques to get around all of our drugs.
01:34:16.000 So they are researching their ass off.
01:34:19.000 So is there any common brain that links the bacteria to the scientific community?
01:34:25.000 You bet.
01:34:26.000 They're competing with each other.
01:34:28.000 And in the process of competing with each other, what are they doing?
01:34:31.000 They are both creating new options for all of life.
01:34:37.000 Wow.
01:34:37.000 So when we're talking about antibiotics, penicillin, moxicillin, stuff like that, these are bacteria-created poisons.
01:34:47.000 Bacteria make war with each other.
01:34:49.000 When people tell you we are the only creatures that make war, they're lying.
01:34:52.000 So is this why also, especially if you're experimenting with your diet, people that have a very sugar-based diet, they have a high number of certain kind of bacteria in their stomach that craves that kind of sugar and it makes it very difficult to get off that.
01:35:11.000 Well, that's interesting.
01:35:12.000 I mean, I'm not aware of that, but it sounds logical given what we're learning about the biome, it's called.
01:35:18.000 Yeah, when you find out one of the things, if you're trying to alter your diet, if you're in a very high refined carbohydrate diet and you try to get off of that, you have intense cravings.
01:35:30.000 But those eventually go away, especially when you supplement with a lot of probiotics and then you go to a high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet.
01:35:38.000 You start to crave those kind of foods, and the cravings for sugar and bread go away.
01:35:43.000 It's very strange.
01:35:44.000 Well, that's interesting, because I am on a very restricted diet.
01:35:47.000 I have developed it myself.
01:35:49.000 Well, again, I developed it myself.
01:35:51.000 It took 30 years, and it's a diet that maximizes my energy and my ability to concentrate.
01:35:58.000 What's a typical meal?
01:35:59.000 There are only two meals.
01:36:01.000 Breakfast is a can of tuna fish, an avocado, and a mango.
01:36:08.000 That's at 10.30 in the morning.
01:36:13.000 Dinner, which is at 3 o'clock or 2.30 in the morning.
01:36:17.000 2.30 in the morning?
01:36:18.000 Yeah.
01:36:19.000 Remember, I'm on this odd schedule and I'm primarily nocturnal because of my illness.
01:36:23.000 Right.
01:36:25.000 Dinner is a half a pound of ground chicken, a pound of frozen vegetables, an apple, an orange, and a banana.
01:36:31.000 Why frozen vegetables?
01:36:32.000 Because you can get them in one-pound bags, so it's precisely pre-measured for you, and they freeze them when they're fresh.
01:36:40.000 And you can throw them along with a slab of chopped chicken, a frozen slab, into a microwavable container and microwave them for 15 minutes.
01:36:52.000 I mean, throw a lot of spices in so that you change the flavor, but day after day.
01:36:57.000 And you've got dinner.
01:37:00.000 And that's all you ever eat?
01:37:01.000 That's all I ever eat except on Friday I allow myself to eat sauces and cheese, sauces out of a jar, because I don't eat things that have artificial ingredients or additives of any kind normally.
01:37:14.000 And so I have this wonking huge meal.
01:37:17.000 And then on Saturday I allow myself to splurge on absolutely anything I want to eat.
01:37:21.000 So that's your cheat day?
01:37:23.000 Yeah.
01:37:23.000 What do you find yourself going to on a cheat day?
01:37:25.000 Well, these days, I've sort of settled into a pattern.
01:37:28.000 I take one frozen bagel, a big one out of the refrigerator, I slice it in half, I put huge amounts of peanut butter on one half.
01:37:36.000 I use a quarter of a pound of butter, and I slather on the two halves of the bagel, because I'm not allowed to eat any of these things.
01:37:43.000 You're not allowed to eat butter?
01:37:45.000 No.
01:37:46.000 Why is that?
01:37:47.000 Well, we're told that butter is bad for us, and dairy turned out to be a problem for me.
01:37:52.000 And I had to work away around my food allergies, and this is the diet.
01:37:56.000 Do you have an allergy to dairy?
01:37:58.000 I apparently did.
01:37:59.000 I'm not sure I still do.
01:38:02.000 So these huge honking amounts of butter, and then I take these giant slabs of peanut butter.
01:38:08.000 And I pile them up, leaving a little hole in the center.
01:38:12.000 And in the hole in the center, I put grape jam and strawberry jam.
01:38:16.000 And then I take out the marshmallow fluff, and I put out almost an entire jar of marshmallow fluff on top of this one half a bagel, because I really want to taste the bagel naked with just butter on it, because I haven't had bread all week, and it can taste really good.
01:38:33.000 And I'm indulging myself with this other half of the bagel.
01:38:38.000 How bad do you feel after you digest that?
01:38:40.000 I don't feel bad.
01:38:40.000 I eat before I go to sleep.
01:38:45.000 Well, eating puts you to sleep.
01:38:47.000 Why should you have to slog through the gray goo of your after-meal experience with your friends?
01:38:53.000 I mean, if I'm with a friend, I want to be at my maximum.
01:38:58.000 I want to enjoy, and how do I enjoy myself?
01:39:00.000 With my mouth open and my tongue going.
01:39:02.000 Right.
01:39:03.000 So even having food in your mouth is just preventing you from having a good conversation.
01:39:10.000 Wow, that's a fascinating way to approach it.
01:39:12.000 So you just...
01:39:13.000 Well, also, if you carb up like that, you know, with all that sugar and carbs, you're going to want to crash in about 40 minutes after you're done.
01:39:19.000 And that turns out to be the case anyway.
01:39:21.000 So I sleep immediately after my breakfast, and then I sleep immediately after my dinner.
01:39:25.000 And that's the way the day is arranged.
01:39:26.000 It's arranged to maximize the useful, high-energy, high-focus time.
01:39:32.000 Now, did they ever try to put you on any kind of amphetamines or anything?
01:39:36.000 No, not really.
01:39:38.000 And my experience, you know, I helped start the 60s, so I helped start the drug culture, and that meant I did amphetamine twice.
01:39:48.000 It was brand new back then in whatever form it was popular.
01:39:52.000 Pro-vigil or new vigil?
01:39:54.000 I have a friend who has chronic fatigue, and that's what they put him on.
01:39:57.000 Well, the stuff I'm on works so well, I don't want to mess with it at this point.
01:40:02.000 I'm lucky to be out of that bed.
01:40:04.000 Joe, I thought I would never be out of that bedroom again in my life.
01:40:07.000 And you've been out of the bed for 15 years?
01:40:09.000 Well, since, yeah, that's 15 years.
01:40:11.000 That's amazing.
01:40:11.000 Right.
01:40:12.000 So I'm giving three speeches this week.
01:40:14.000 15 in, 15 out.
01:40:16.000 Yeah.
01:40:16.000 Right?
01:40:17.000 Yep.
01:40:18.000 Wow.
01:40:19.000 You have so much energy.
01:40:20.000 It's hard to imagine you being bedridden.
01:40:23.000 I mean, it really is.
01:40:24.000 I couldn't form a single syllable.
01:40:29.000 I mean, I believe you.
01:40:30.000 I do believe you, but I'm just saying, seeing you in this state, you're smiling, and obviously what you said about enjoying conversations is so apparent.
01:40:40.000 You really enjoy getting these ideas across.
01:40:43.000 Well, this is tremendous.
01:40:44.000 I mean, I'm still dealing with how to get across the idea of a global brain, but it's basically every...
01:41:02.000 Mm-hmm.
01:41:05.000 So we anticipated the movements of lions.
01:41:07.000 We anticipated the movements of eagles.
01:41:09.000 We turned lions and eagles and bears into totems and named ourselves after them because we were trying to learn from their very spirit.
01:41:17.000 We were trying to learn muscularly and emotionally how to be them so that we could defeat them when the time came.
01:41:25.000 There's a connection there.
01:41:27.000 There's a global brain taking place right there.
01:41:29.000 And the deer and the bison and the other creatures we were hunting, even the woolly mammals, could not have lived without those bacteria in their guts.
01:41:38.000 Now, we didn't discover those bacteria until Anton von Leeuwenhoek dared to take his lens and, instead of having it horizontal to measure fabrics or look at fabrics, started looking down at his own sperm, which was a very...
01:41:50.000 I mean, look at what this guy did.
01:41:52.000 He's a tradesman.
01:41:53.000 He's not a trained scientist.
01:41:55.000 Of course the word scientist didn't exist until roughly 1850. But Nonetheless, he is taking his observations of fresh human sperm through his newly invented microscope, and he's sending the observations.
01:42:09.000 He's discovered that there are animalcules, little animals, totally independent, flailing around in the sperm.
01:42:17.000 And he writes a lengthy letter about this to the Royal Society.
01:42:20.000 Now, what has he just done, Joe, to the Royal Society?
01:42:23.000 He's confessed to masturbation.
01:42:26.000 Oh my goodness.
01:42:27.000 Where do you think he got the sperm?
01:42:28.000 I mean, it took me about 40 years of thinking about it, maybe 50, to work it out.
01:42:33.000 And then I suddenly realized, this guy is, why does masturbation keep showing up in my life when, look, the Boy Scouts threw me out when I was 11 years old for incompetence at Morse Code.
01:42:41.000 And if they hadn't thrown me out for incompetence at that, they could have thrown me out for incompetence at not time.
01:42:46.000 Now, admittedly, I've never heard of another human being ever being thrown out of the Boy Scouts, but still.
01:42:52.000 You got thrown out of the Boy Scouts?
01:42:53.000 That's right.
01:42:54.000 For incompetence at Morse Code?
01:42:55.000 Incompetence at Morse Code, right.
01:42:57.000 Being incompetent at Morse Code?
01:42:59.000 Yes.
01:42:59.000 That seems so simple.
01:43:00.000 To me, it wasn't simple.
01:43:05.000 So at any rate, I mean, I was too busy with theoretical physics and cosmology.
01:43:09.000 Right, but that's what I'm saying.
01:43:10.000 You're just uninterested.
01:43:11.000 Yeah.
01:43:11.000 It wasn't that you were incompetent.
01:43:13.000 You really never bothered to learn.
01:43:14.000 I had other better things to do with my time.
01:43:17.000 They had already figured out something better than Morse Code long before that.
01:43:19.000 Right.
01:43:20.000 Right.
01:43:20.000 So, at any rate, then, in the summer between my freshman and sophomore year of college, I mean, I dropped out for three years, so I was going back to freshman year at the age of 21. Why'd you drop out?
01:43:32.000 Well, I wanted to find the Beatniks.
01:43:34.000 I wanted to find Zen Buddhist Satori, the Zen Buddhist State of Enlightenment.
01:43:38.000 I was dead serious about those things.
01:43:40.000 I was in the top 10% of a class that had higher median SATs than the classes at Harvard, MIT, and Caltech that year.
01:43:47.000 It was at Reed College, the school that Steve Jobs would eventually drop out of.
01:43:51.000 A very tough school.
01:43:53.000 And I didn't realize I was in the top 10%, but nonetheless, I had these things I wanted to do.
01:43:59.000 I was inspired by on the road.
01:44:01.000 I felt the beatniks were the first people who would ever accept me in my life.
01:44:06.000 You were reliving the time you were carried away by the children.
01:44:10.000 Yeah, well, so I dropped out of school and went seeking Satori and the Beatniks and hitchhiked from Seattle down to the City Lights Bookshop, which was Lawrence Ferlinghetti's bookshop, and that's where the Beatniks are supposed to be hanging out.
01:44:29.000 And I walked into the store and it was empty.
01:44:31.000 Yeah.
01:44:32.000 And there was a guy behind the counter, and I probably said something like, where are the beatniks?
01:44:38.000 And he acted as if I wasn't even there.
01:44:40.000 Now, that was hard, Joe, because I had a jufro of a kind.
01:44:45.000 People have been wearing their haircuts and military haircuts, crew cuts.
01:44:49.000 And I had this long, curly hair.
01:44:52.000 And no one had ever seen anything like it before.
01:44:55.000 The closest to it was the wig that Harpo Marx used to wear.
01:44:59.000 Wasn't some of the members of the experience...
01:45:01.000 Look at you there.
01:45:02.000 There's a photo of you.
01:45:03.000 Yes.
01:45:03.000 What is that photo from?
01:45:04.000 That's probably 1965 or 1966. That is a great picture.
01:45:12.000 And the guy who...
01:45:14.000 So how could you ignore if that walked into your bookstore and you've never seen a haircut like that before and the person was barefoot in addition to that and carrying a sleeping bag...
01:45:24.000 You were barefoot with a sleeping bag?
01:45:26.000 Yes, I had been barefoot for six months, and your feet get so thick that you can walk over gravel, glass.
01:45:31.000 Why were you barefoot for six months?
01:45:32.000 It felt like the right thing to do, under the circumstances.
01:45:35.000 Did you give that up?
01:45:36.000 Well, no, eventually I gave it up.
01:45:38.000 Do you have any calluses left?
01:45:39.000 No, none.
01:45:41.000 No, I can't walk over gravel anymore.
01:45:42.000 Don't you, like, long for those days?
01:45:44.000 No.
01:45:44.000 Not a bit.
01:45:45.000 No, I like current shoes.
01:45:47.000 I love current shoes.
01:45:49.000 So at any rate, but would you ignore what you just saw?
01:45:52.000 I wouldn't.
01:45:53.000 That person with hair coming out of his head like electrocuted worms.
01:45:55.000 Well, if you had that smile on your face like that, I'd be like, this guy's got something to say.
01:45:59.000 What's up?
01:45:59.000 Yeah.
01:46:00.000 The guy ignored me.
01:46:02.000 So I walked out of the bookstore looking crushed.
01:46:05.000 And somebody walking down the sidewalk said, you look troubled.
01:46:09.000 Can I help you with something?
01:46:11.000 And I said, yeah, I'm looking for the beatniks.
01:46:15.000 And he said, well, and he rolled his pupils up into his forehead and he scratched his head and he thought and he thought and he thought and then he came out of it and he said, well, have you tried Colorado?
01:46:30.000 Well, that was just a little too vague a destination for me.
01:46:34.000 Colorado?
01:46:35.000 Yeah.
01:46:35.000 Were the beatniks in Colorado?
01:46:37.000 I have no idea.
01:46:38.000 He thought they might be.
01:46:40.000 Yeah.
01:46:40.000 So, I ended up hitchhiking up and down the West Coast with several friends.
01:46:44.000 You just gave up?
01:46:45.000 You gave up on the beatniks?
01:46:46.000 What year is this?
01:46:46.000 I gave up on the beatniks because I wasn't a specific address and I didn't want to leave the West Coast.
01:46:51.000 It was 1962. Oh, you were early.
01:46:54.000 It was two years before the 60s woke up and realized that it was a distinct decade.
01:46:58.000 Yeah.
01:46:58.000 It was two years before the electric Kool-Aid acid test.
01:47:02.000 If you just hung around a little bit, you would have been there perfect.
01:47:06.000 Well, I prefer starting my own groups, actually.
01:47:09.000 And this group gathered around me and around one of my traveling companions.
01:47:14.000 And we eventually ended up in a big, pink, condemned house.
01:47:18.000 This is all in how I accidentally started in the 60s.
01:47:20.000 In a big, pink, condemned house in Berkeley, three blocks away from the Berkeley campus.
01:47:25.000 And we didn't care if it was going to fall down at any minute.
01:47:28.000 And we wore no clothes, zero clothing during the day.
01:47:33.000 And my, I guess, co-leader was a guy named Dick Hoff, who had the body of an Adonis.
01:47:38.000 When we walked down the street together, women could not take their eyes off of him.
01:47:43.000 But they sliced through me as if I weren't there, as if I were invisible.
01:47:47.000 And every woman wanted to sleep with him.
01:47:50.000 And he had this sense of somehow he had lived a life up to that point with never having a depression, never having a doubt, never having a psychic pain of any kind.
01:47:59.000 It was uncanny.
01:48:00.000 It was unreal.
01:48:02.000 And remember, Michael Jackson is still the most remarkable person I've ever met, but Dick Hoff was pretty remarkable.
01:48:08.000 And so Dick set the tone, being naked, and Dick would go into the bathroom to do the things you do in the bathroom, but leave the door open and continue his conversation with you while he was in there going.
01:48:20.000 So that was the norm for us, and I was the spiritual leader of the group.
01:48:25.000 And how old were you at the time?
01:48:27.000 I was 19 or 18 years old.
01:48:31.000 What's it like to be a spiritual leader at 19?
01:48:34.000 It feels very good when people believe in the things that you say.
01:48:37.000 It feels very good when you're hitchhiking and somebody takes you to MacArthur Park in L.A., and there are all these guys on soapboxes and orating their heads off about Marxism or the coming of Jesus or whatever, and somebody in the crowd, while you're just watching what's going on,
01:48:53.000 walks up to you and says, you look like the idiot in the Dostoevsky novel.
01:48:57.000 So he doesn't mean that as, you look like an idiot.
01:49:00.000 He's talking about something unusual.
01:49:03.000 Right.
01:49:15.000 Have abandoned their speakers, and they're all listening to me.
01:49:20.000 Well, you can tell I really get off on talking to an audience of anywhere from one person to 100,000 people.
01:49:28.000 Whatever.
01:49:29.000 I don't care.
01:49:30.000 It lights me up.
01:49:31.000 And so, did it feel good?
01:49:34.000 Yes.
01:49:34.000 So you feel like...
01:49:36.000 That doing that is your calling?
01:49:38.000 Yes.
01:49:39.000 Yeah.
01:49:39.000 That's what I'm here for.
01:49:41.000 But I'm here to write the books, too.
01:49:43.000 Now, writing the books is a lonely proposition.
01:49:46.000 Writing is very lonely.
01:49:47.000 You have to isolate yourself.
01:49:48.000 That's why I do it at a coffee shop, where out of the corner of my eye I can see humans around me, and where I can spend four hours and be profoundly rude, because when you're in the middle of balancing seven ideas and you're fashioning a sentence, if somebody interrupts you for half a second...
01:50:05.000 All those things can go crashing and disappear.
01:50:08.000 That's why I don't understand the need to do it in front of all these people.
01:50:12.000 Because I need the energy of other people.
01:50:14.000 Well, there are a lot of people that live in New York City.
01:50:16.000 My friend Jeff said that.
01:50:17.000 He wouldn't live anywhere else.
01:50:18.000 He loves New York City because he gets energy out of all the people that live there.
01:50:21.000 And I can't...
01:50:22.000 I mean, I've tried Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, San Pedro, and...
01:50:28.000 New York City does it for you.
01:50:29.000 Oh, yes, in ways I never imagined.
01:50:31.000 I never thought...
01:50:32.000 How long did it take before you realized that that was the spot for you?
01:50:35.000 Not that long, because what I realized about seven months into it was I don't fit into cliques.
01:50:43.000 Cliques don't want me.
01:50:44.000 And I'm not comfortable.
01:50:46.000 I'll take you in my clique.
01:50:46.000 Well, I'm generally not wanted in cliques.
01:50:49.000 Oh, you'd be wanted in...
01:50:50.000 I don't really have one, but if I did, you'd be wanted in it.
01:50:53.000 I guess I have a loosely formed one.
01:50:55.000 Yes, that's very nice.
01:50:56.000 So, at any rate, I discovered that in New York there are so many people...
01:51:01.000 That you can pick people one by one and put them together into your own clique.
01:51:05.000 And if you put them together in your own clique, you always maintain a certain central role, even if you admire the people that are in the clique and you really want to advance them, you're still accepted.
01:51:17.000 I'm around giant groups of people so often because of the UFC, doing commentary in these huge arenas filled with people, and then doing stand-up in front of thousands of people.
01:51:30.000 Then the podcast reaching all these people I need alone time like I have the opposite Requirement amazing.
01:51:38.000 I need that if I don't get like my writing I have to write alone I write when everyone's asleep right house.
01:51:44.000 I wait till everyone goes to bed and then I do my writing and I've learned I guess it's a discipline.
01:51:50.000 Yeah.
01:51:51.000 How to be alone in the midst of a lot of people.
01:51:53.000 Right.
01:51:53.000 But you need the energy.
01:51:55.000 I need the energy, yes.
01:51:56.000 So what I want you to describe to me is, like, what is the energy of these people around you?
01:52:01.000 Like, what is happening?
01:52:02.000 First, you have to understand something.
01:52:04.000 It's not a distraction.
01:52:04.000 No.
01:52:05.000 We are built to take in input from other human beings and to give output to other human beings.
01:52:10.000 Right.
01:52:10.000 And when we feel unnecessary, as I said, our immune system goes into underdive, nosedive.
01:52:16.000 And so we need to be around other people.
01:52:19.000 Now, if you're a writer and you write and I write, as you said, you need to isolate yourself.
01:52:24.000 So I've figured out a way to be utterly isolated in the midst of a bunch of people.
01:52:28.000 I need the energy from those people because otherwise I do my best writing when I'm feeling the energy of my audience.
01:52:35.000 But you don't.
01:52:37.000 When you do get interrupted, I should say, it does fuck you up.
01:52:41.000 You don't like it.
01:52:45.000 You just say writing?
01:52:46.000 Yeah.
01:52:46.000 Oh, wow.
01:52:47.000 But I do it without ever lifting my eyes from the page.
01:52:50.000 I've learned to discipline my eyes.
01:52:51.000 You just go, writing, writing.
01:52:52.000 Something like that.
01:52:53.000 People are like, fuck you, man, I just wanted a cigarette.
01:52:55.000 Yeah, but they know me.
01:52:58.000 Oh, they know you.
01:52:58.000 You know, I'm sort of the mayor of the chocolateria, the cafe where I work.
01:53:02.000 Don't give the name out, man.
01:53:03.000 Well, I'm respected there.
01:53:05.000 Well, there's a lot of weirdos out there that find that spot.
01:53:08.000 That could be.
01:53:09.000 And go, writing, huh?
01:53:09.000 Yeah.
01:53:12.000 So, but...
01:53:13.000 Don't give out the address.
01:53:14.000 But we need, you know, we need social input.
01:53:17.000 Right.
01:53:17.000 We desperately need it.
01:53:19.000 So, as you said, you can only be alone after too much social input.
01:53:22.000 Yes.
01:53:23.000 Now, I do a show called Coast to Coast.
01:53:26.000 It's a crazy, weird flying saucer show.
01:53:28.000 Yeah, Art Bell's show.
01:53:29.000 Yeah, it's the highest rated overnight talk radio show in North America.
01:53:32.000 Is George Norrie still the host of it?
01:53:33.000 Yeah, and it's 545 radio stations.
01:53:36.000 And they'll, one night, I mean, they'll call me on no notice.
01:53:39.000 And say, we need you on tonight about the norovirus.
01:53:42.000 We need you on tonight about the killing in Texas, the school shooting in Texas.
01:53:47.000 We need you on tonight about the Gaza riots in Israel.
01:53:51.000 And you just jump on and talk about everything or anything.
01:53:55.000 Five hours, six hours notice, because I like to put in three hours of research.
01:54:00.000 But one night, I was walking out in the middle of the meadow, in the park, looking at the stars, and my phone began to ring.
01:54:07.000 Now, at 1140 at night, or 1240 at night, when you're communing with the stars, you don't really want to answer the phone.
01:54:13.000 But I'm on call for Coast to Coast.
01:54:16.000 You're always on call?
01:54:17.000 Yes, I've done it 237 times.
01:54:19.000 That's crazy.
01:54:20.000 And they call me the human computer.
01:54:22.000 Because I can ask me questions about anything.
01:54:24.000 Did you do it during the Art Bell days as well?
01:54:26.000 Yes, but Art would have me on for four to five hours.
01:54:29.000 And that was a hoot.
01:54:30.000 That was really a hoot.
01:54:32.000 I did his show once.
01:54:33.000 It was a highlight of my life.
01:54:36.000 Well, Art was one of the most energetic talk show hosts you've ever seen in your life.
01:54:40.000 I'm a huge fan of that guy.
01:54:41.000 So he would call at 4 in the afternoon, and he'd say, okay, I want you to look at this website.
01:54:47.000 So I'd go look at the website and call me when you look at it.
01:54:49.000 So I'd call him again, and he'd say, okay, now look at this website.
01:54:53.000 Now, gradually, I got the idea that he was trying to tell me that there were extra galactic civilizations, and that they were coming to Earth and signaling us through crop circles and a whole bunch of other things.
01:55:05.000 But it was the way he did it.
01:55:07.000 He did it with such energy, he lit a fire in you.
01:55:10.000 Absolutely lit it.
01:55:11.000 Even if you totally disagreed with everything he was thinking, he lit that fire.
01:55:16.000 I used to drive home from the comedy store at night.
01:55:18.000 That was one of the only things that I would listen to, because it was AM radio, and I would get it from, I believe it was a San Diego station, and you could usually get it better late at night.
01:55:27.000 Right.
01:55:27.000 So it'd be like 1 o'clock in the morning when I was driving into the valley, and I'd be listening to the Coast to Coast with Art Bell.
01:55:32.000 Right, and a lot of people...
01:55:33.000 From the Kingdom of Nigh.
01:55:34.000 A lot of people did that.
01:55:35.000 A lot of intellectuals do that as their secret sin.
01:55:41.000 And because they're awake late at night, and there's nothing else really on the radio, and this at least teases a little bit of your brain.
01:55:48.000 So I do global...
01:55:51.000 I do global history.
01:55:52.000 I do global geopolitics.
01:55:54.000 I do geoeconomics.
01:55:57.000 I do psychology.
01:55:58.000 I do murders.
01:56:00.000 I do bacteria.
01:56:01.000 I do stars.
01:56:02.000 Do you do your own show?
01:56:04.000 Well, I was asked, the guy who created the show with Art Bell, who created Coast to Coast with Art Bell, He wanted to do a radio show where I could have as many nights of the week as I wanted, and the guy who wrote Conversations with God would have the other nights.
01:56:19.000 Why don't you just do a podcast?
01:56:20.000 I do.
01:56:21.000 Not a podcast.
01:56:22.000 I do a YouTube thing.
01:56:24.000 Why don't you put it out as a podcast as well?
01:56:26.000 You could just take the audio from it.
01:56:27.000 Well, I have very little time in which to do this, so I know how to put it up on YouTube.
01:56:33.000 It doesn't get that many hits.
01:56:35.000 I mean, I used to do T.J. Kincaid's show with him, The Amazing Atheist.
01:56:39.000 The Amazing Atheist, yeah.
01:56:40.000 He's been on a couple times.
01:56:41.000 Well, he's fabulous.
01:56:42.000 Yeah.
01:56:43.000 And 6'8", or something like that.
01:56:44.000 He's a good dude.
01:56:45.000 I like that guy.
01:56:45.000 Oh, I like him, too.
01:56:46.000 And so he had me on for two years running, and then said, you've got to start your own.
01:56:51.000 So I started my own, and he, of course, at this point has...
01:56:54.000 I have 950,000 subscribers or something like that.
01:56:57.000 I have 13,400 subscribers.
01:57:00.000 Well, we'll try to pump you up.
01:57:01.000 That would be neat.
01:57:02.000 That would be terrific.
01:57:03.000 I mean, you really should do your own thing.
01:57:04.000 It's not difficult to do.
01:57:06.000 Right.
01:57:06.000 And once it gets set up, it's fairly easy.
01:57:09.000 You just need a recorder.
01:57:10.000 Well, we'd have to set me up.
01:57:12.000 Meantime, I... We could set you up.
01:57:13.000 But look at me.
01:57:15.000 Buzz Aldrin said 12 years ago, we've got a presidential election coming up, and we've got to try to get space on the agenda of the things the candidates are talking about.
01:57:25.000 We've got two years in which to do it.
01:57:27.000 And I said, okay, I'll form a group to do that.
01:57:29.000 You could do this.
01:57:30.000 Let me ask you this, because you're this big coast-to-coast Art Belt fan.
01:57:34.000 Right.
01:57:35.000 How much of that...
01:57:37.000 What UFO stuff do you pay attention to?
01:57:40.000 None.
01:57:41.000 None.
01:57:41.000 Yeah, me too.
01:57:42.000 When people contact me on LinkedIn and their major credential is they do a UFO magazine or something like that, I don't add them.
01:57:50.000 I used to love that stuff.
01:57:51.000 I used to think it was so interesting and intriguing until I started actually paying attention to it.
01:57:55.000 Yeah.
01:57:56.000 When I started interviewing some of the people that are involved in the movement, you find the same thing over and over again.
01:58:01.000 This just...
01:58:02.000 This wantant disregard for reality, this absolute desire to prove something, instead of looking at the objective facts, proving that aliens are real, proving that we've been contacted, proving that these eyewitness testimonies are legitimate.
01:58:18.000 Let me try to get across a weird idea, okay?
01:58:20.000 Okay.
01:58:22.000 Once upon a time in the 1940s, there were two guys, Conrad Lorenz and Nico Tinbergen, who got a Nobel Prize for inventing a field called ethology, which is a certain kind of observation of animal behavior.
01:58:34.000 And Nico Tinbergen would go off to the coastal cliffs.
01:58:38.000 Around Northern Europe.
01:58:40.000 And he would observe these seabirds, and the seabirds would go out, I don't know how many miles, 10, 30, 40 miles out to the ocean, to feed and bring back food for the young.
01:58:50.000 And then they would come back at the end of the day, and their nests, they'd have 200 nests next to each other, but the nests had very low walls.
01:58:58.000 So when the seabird came back from her fishing, and waddled herself into place, moving her hind back and forth to get in place to...
01:59:07.000 Incubate her chicks to warm the eggs.
01:59:09.000 She'd often knock an egg out.
01:59:13.000 And when the egg was knocked out of the nest, the bird would reach her beak out, pass the egg, and then pull her beak back in toward her chest to pull the egg toward the nest.
01:59:24.000 And she'd do it over and over again until she got the egg in the nest.
01:59:28.000 And Nico Tinbergen had this weird idea, I wish I knew where it came from, that this is a reflex.
01:59:33.000 You know, like when your doctor takes a hammer and hammers your knee and you're...
01:59:38.000 Your leg shoots out and you had nothing to do with it.
01:59:41.000 He figured this is the same kind of a reflex.
01:59:44.000 And he figured that if you have a reflex, you need a trigger for the reflex, like that patellar hammer that hammered your knee.
01:59:52.000 So he looked to see if there was a trigger that triggered this yanking your beak back in order to scoop the egg back into the nest.
02:00:02.000 And he tried building artificial eggs to see if he could find out what the cues were in the egg that were causing this reaction in the bird.
02:00:11.000 And finally, he got a super egg, which means it was bigger than the normal egg, it was browner than the normal egg, and he put the real egg.
02:00:20.000 Now, if you're the bird, that real egg has your genetic legacy.
02:00:24.000 It's your genetic future.
02:00:26.000 A lot is riding on that egg.
02:00:28.000 A lot of you.
02:00:29.000 And the phony egg.
02:00:32.000 And the phony egg would attract the bird so strongly that she would ignore her own egg and yank, yank, yank with her beak until she pulled the phony egg into the nest.
02:00:43.000 And they continued to do research with this kind of thing, and they discovered that they could trick some songbirds.
02:01:02.000 So the phony eggs like fake tits...
02:01:06.000 Those are things called supernormal stimuli.
02:01:09.000 And the idea is that they bring these reflexive reactions.
02:01:12.000 Yes.
02:01:13.000 Well, underlying what Adolf Hitler was doing, underlying what I was doing, dancing on that stage, underlying what you do in front of an audience when you get incandescent and lose yourself and something else talks through you.
02:01:27.000 All that is related to some supernormal stimuli.
02:01:32.000 Pattern.
02:01:32.000 In us.
02:01:33.000 Yes.
02:01:34.000 So Hitler was basically saying the world is about to end and the kingdom of God is coming.
02:01:40.000 Except the kingdom of God, in his case, was the world will be controlled by the master race, the blonde and blue-eyed Aryans, and all other people will be slave people.
02:01:53.000 Or we'll be exterminated.
02:01:55.000 But it was this golden paradise that he was inviting the Germans to, in which they ruled the world because they were born to rule the world.
02:02:03.000 And how did you describe the stimulation?
02:02:05.000 Super...
02:02:05.000 Supernormal stimulus.
02:02:07.000 So the supernormal stimulus of this artificial egg is like supernormal stimulus of this extreme behavior at the podium that attract people in.
02:02:18.000 Right.
02:02:19.000 And basically, Hitler was talking about the equivalent of extraterrestrials.
02:02:25.000 He was talking about this magic quality of the Germans.
02:02:28.000 He was talking about the shared soul of the Germans and how the people in Wagner operas and the gods of the old Germans had been in the souls of these people, and he was evoking the group soul, the zeitgeist.
02:02:44.000 In this case, it's the Volkgeist, the spirit of a people.
02:02:49.000 And the flying saucer people are after an end of the world in which the world will be remade.
02:02:56.000 And a guy named, well, there was a Jewish kid from a backward town, a really backward town, who only had been trained in manual skills.
02:03:05.000 And he started preaching.
02:03:06.000 And he preached that the world, as we know, was about to end, and we were about to enter a new kind of paradise.
02:03:12.000 And because he was Jewish, he figured it's going to happen at Passover.
02:03:17.000 Because at Passover, you put out a cup for Elijah, and Elijah's there to precede the Savior, the guy who will save the Jewish people.
02:03:26.000 So he went up to the holiest city in Judaism, to Jerusalem, and he had a dinner, this Passover dinner, and they put out the cup, and that's when the kingdom of God was supposed to arrive.
02:03:40.000 His prediction of a kingdom of God arriving at that particular Passover ceremony turned out to be utterly wrong.
02:03:46.000 And in fact, the Romans seized him and nailed him to a cross.
02:03:51.000 And he died.
02:03:53.000 It was the opposite of everything he'd predicted.
02:03:56.000 But the religion he'd put together, and the religion really that Paul put together, because Paul was an international figure, you know, he was comfortable in the global world of the Roman Empire.
02:04:08.000 But what Paul put together around Jesus was a supernormal stimulus.
02:04:14.000 And it evoked a supernormal response, a supernormal reflex.
02:04:19.000 And the flying saucer ideas that, you know, here we are on Earth, but there's this race that's above us that can save us.
02:04:30.000 That's pushing at the same buttons.
02:04:34.000 Hitler was pushing at the same buttons.
02:04:36.000 The world, as we know, is about to end, and there's a new paradise, and the Germans will rule everything.
02:04:41.000 So we are built to receive certain kind of stimuli.
02:04:46.000 God knows how we got built that way.
02:04:48.000 And when I went out in quest of the ecstatic of God, the gods inside of us, at the age of 13, I was looking for those supernormal responses in us, and for the supernormal stimuli that evoked them.
02:05:04.000 And when you're doing art, when you're doing commentary, when you're doing comedy, you are hitting The buttons.
02:05:11.000 You are creating supernormal stimuli.
02:05:13.000 You are testing out jokes until they reach just the right shape.
02:05:18.000 And you know what you can feel in the audience, what that shape is.
02:05:21.000 And then you repeat that shape, knowing what its impact is going to be on the audience.
02:05:24.000 I wrote a new book.
02:05:29.000 It took me a long time to write all of my previous books, including how I accidentally started in the 60s.
02:05:33.000 And by the way, it isn't the same 1995 manuscript.
02:05:35.000 I had 20 years of additional processing and was able to put a lot more meaning into the book.
02:05:41.000 And hopefully it's still really funny.
02:05:45.000 But I was able to write a book in six weeks.
02:05:47.000 The first draft of 178,000 word book.
02:05:51.000 And a normal book is 90,000 words.
02:05:54.000 So this is almost twice the length of a normal book.
02:05:57.000 And I was able to do it because I had told all the stories in the book.
02:06:01.000 And I had felt out how the audiences responded to the stories, and I knew the words to use, and they were a well-worn path in my brain.
02:06:09.000 So I simply put down on paper an oral vocabulary, but it's the audience who shapes You, by giving you feedback.
02:06:21.000 And eventually you perfect something so it's like Nico Tinberg and Super Egg.
02:06:25.000 I mean, Nico Tinberg was eventually able to make eggs, super eggs, that had day glow on them, had polka dots on them, that were absurd, but they still had the ability, the way that flying saucer myths have the ability,
02:06:40.000 to evoke the sense that there is a paradise beyond the world that we know.
02:06:46.000 Don't you think when you think of supernormal stimulus that when you see you know like a preacher on the pulpit that's screaming with confidence when you see Any of these things like even when it comes to fake breasts like you're seeing something like you know what you want you want a woman to be Good at bearing children right to have the right hip to waist ratio That she's designed to breastfeed she has large breasts Even though you know it's fake,
02:07:15.000 it still hits whatever that genetic button is inside of your head.
02:07:20.000 And the alien theme, the idea behind it, the archetype, is kind of like Space Daddy.
02:07:26.000 It's like, you know, I know we're stupid, but just like this guy who's screaming on the pulpit has all the answers.
02:07:33.000 Like, thank God someone has all the answers.
02:07:35.000 Well, Space Daddy is for the atheists.
02:07:37.000 Right.
02:07:38.000 Space Daddy's for the people.
02:07:39.000 You know what?
02:07:39.000 I've listened to all these people down here.
02:07:41.000 I think they're full of shit, but Space Daddy's going to help us out.
02:07:45.000 Yeah.
02:07:45.000 Well, that's the general idea.
02:07:46.000 Is that what it is?
02:07:47.000 Yes.
02:07:48.000 And when you, as I said, when you fashion a joke, you're fashioning it to be a supernormal stimulus.
02:07:53.000 But Space Daddy might be real somewhere, because we're dealing with extraordinary numbers.
02:07:59.000 Okay, as a science person, I have to tell you that there's only one place in which we've ever discovered any evidence of life, and it's down here on Earth.
02:08:07.000 So I'm a skeptic about life being anywhere.
02:08:09.000 Now, changing...
02:08:11.000 To a different scientific perspective, there's this thing that I call supersimultaneity, supersynchrony.
02:08:18.000 And when the universe starts as a rapidly expanding sheet of nothing but space and time, it's space, time, and speed.
02:08:27.000 That's all it is.
02:08:28.000 And when it precipitates in quarks, which is unlikely.
02:08:34.000 How can space, time, and speed become particles, quarks?
02:08:38.000 Right.
02:08:38.000 The fact is that there are only something like 16 different forms of those quarks, and there are a gazillion of identical copies of each quark everywhere, and they all sprang into existence at the same time.
02:08:50.000 Fast forward a couple of million years.
02:08:54.000 Galaxies all are pretty much the same.
02:08:57.000 And all of them spring into existence pretty much at the same time, at least the first generation of galaxies.
02:09:06.000 Stars ignite within those galaxies, all following pretty much the same principles.
02:09:11.000 They're all just big gravity balls.
02:09:14.000 Gravity is gravity balls all the way.
02:09:16.000 That's planets, that's moons, all kinds of things.
02:09:19.000 So there is this tendency for the universe to do the same damn thing at pretty much the same damn time, pretty much same damn everywhere in this cosmos.
02:09:28.000 And we do know that there are biomolecules, carbon-based molecules, Being formed in interstellar cold gas clouds, interstellar hot gas clouds, all kinds of unlikely places in the cosmos.
02:09:42.000 But those are very simple little molecules, even though we call them biomolecules.
02:09:47.000 This simply means they've got carbon.
02:09:49.000 Life depends on molecules.
02:09:51.000 In the case of your genome, if we yank just...
02:09:54.000 If we took just one cell, you wouldn't miss it.
02:09:56.000 You have a hundred trillion others.
02:09:58.000 So we took just one cell from your body and we took out the genome.
02:10:04.000 Well, it's actually the genome.
02:10:06.000 So we took out the genome and we stretched it out because it's all tangled up in the cell.
02:10:11.000 It would be three feet long.
02:10:14.000 So there's a big distance between a tiny little molecule of ammonia in an interstellar cloud and that huge Very complex, highly ordered, three-foot-long single molecule that's your genome.
02:10:32.000 And we haven't learned very much at all about how you go from the simple molecules to that incredibly complex molecules.
02:10:40.000 The origin of life is still one of the big puzzles.
02:10:42.000 But again, because there's supersynchrony and supersimultaneity all over the cosmos, pretty much the same thing happens at pretty much the same time.
02:10:50.000 The odds are that there are millions of other planets that have life.
02:10:56.000 Those are the odds.
02:10:57.000 But I set all that aside because we don't have evidence of any life.
02:11:03.000 And we've been looking since...
02:11:05.000 Okay, I'll tell you a story.
02:11:07.000 It seems to have nothing to do with anything.
02:11:09.000 But...
02:11:10.000 Once upon a time, a manager gave me an act to work with.
02:11:15.000 It was Earth, Wind& Fire.
02:11:17.000 And so I read all their lyrics.
02:11:19.000 I read everything about them.
02:11:20.000 I studied them like a Talmudic scholar.
02:11:22.000 I always did.
02:11:24.000 And finally, I got to their album covers.
02:11:26.000 And when I got together with the leader of the band, Maurice White, for lunch, because I hadn't yet learned to set up my boundaries and tell people, I'll only work with you if I can see you in your own environment for between one and three days.
02:11:41.000 That wasn't quite at that point yet.
02:11:44.000 I sat with Maurice and said, Maurice, if I've got you right, you believe that approximately 11,000 years ago, people from another civilization, someplace else, in our galaxy or beyond our galaxy, came to this Earth and brought us all of our technologies and left the messages of their technologies in the pyramids.
02:12:01.000 Have I got that right?
02:12:03.000 And Maurice smiled, and he said, yes.
02:12:09.000 So I said, okay, there's this scientist from Cornell University, and he has just had a tremendous success with a science series on PBS. It's the most watched series PBS has ever had.
02:12:23.000 And he's trying to put together an organization to find extraterrestrial intelligence.
02:12:30.000 So, if I introduce the two of you, would you be willing to do a benefit concert for him?
02:12:34.000 Because right now, he's struggling to get money together.
02:12:37.000 And Maurice said yes.
02:12:39.000 So, we tracked down Carl Sagan's Summer Cottage telephone number.
02:12:44.000 And I put together a conference call between Maurice White and...
02:12:48.000 Oh, God, what's his name again?
02:12:51.000 Billions and billions and billions of planets.
02:12:54.000 Carl Sagan.
02:12:55.000 Yeah.
02:12:56.000 And...
02:12:57.000 As soon as Carl got wind of where Maurice was coming from, pseudoscience, the conversation was over, because Carl was already gambling too much on ideas that could get him totally laughed out of science.
02:13:11.000 So, it was unfortunate, but that was the early 1980s.
02:13:17.000 Probably about, actually, probably about 1980. Didn't he want to just sit down with Maurice and sort of explain what we know so far?
02:13:24.000 No, he couldn't afford...
02:13:25.000 What was Maurice's stuff based on?
02:13:26.000 Was it Zachariah's agent type stuff?
02:13:27.000 You know, it's all kinds of, it's everywhere.
02:13:30.000 Right.
02:13:30.000 You can find it all over the place.
02:13:32.000 But did he have like a source?
02:13:35.000 Not that I asked him.
02:13:36.000 No, I was too busy trying to put this thing together.
02:13:39.000 And it was unfortunate.
02:13:41.000 Yes, it would have been neat if the two of them had been able to sit down and talk.
02:13:44.000 But Carl, as I said, you know, when he had...
02:13:47.000 Because his first wife, Lynn Margulis, the National Academy of Science award winner...
02:13:53.000 I became friends, and she was kind enough to almost mentor me.
02:13:58.000 And Dorian Sagan, Carl Sagan's oldest son, has been a friend.
02:14:01.000 He's an absolutely brilliant science writer.
02:14:04.000 You read his essays, they change your perception of the world.
02:14:08.000 Period.
02:14:09.000 And just by having the television show...
02:14:13.000 The people in, quote, legitimate science were saying, Carl's not a legitimate scientist anymore.
02:14:18.000 Because he has a television show.
02:14:19.000 That's right.
02:14:20.000 Because he's getting more attention than I am.
02:14:22.000 Now, they would never admit that that's really what was in their hearts.
02:14:25.000 I've heard that from people about Neil deGrasse Tyson.
02:14:26.000 I've heard the exact same thing.
02:14:28.000 That could be.
02:14:28.000 And the question is whether Neil deGrasse Tyson was ever a scientist, because he's primarily been a showman most of his life.
02:14:36.000 And you should see him.
02:14:38.000 Joe, I... When did I see him?
02:14:43.000 He was at God knows what event, and I was probably there because a friend was giving a sold-out lecture at the American Museum of Natural History, and I didn't realize that Neil deGrasse Tyson was going to show up.
02:14:55.000 And when he showed up on stage, because I consider myself competing with him, because I've always wanted my own television series, and Neil has been ahead of me on everything, and I'm older than he is.
02:15:05.000 So it's, you know, little pieces of grit that we pick up and carry in our shoes and walk with.
02:15:12.000 So at any rate, I saw him on stage.
02:15:15.000 I couldn't believe it.
02:15:16.000 That man is astonishing on stage.
02:15:19.000 He's beyond your imaginings on stage.
02:15:21.000 So I went up when it was over.
02:15:23.000 And it was Buzz Aldrin who had originally introduced us via email and said, I'm the guy that Buzz Aldrin introduced you to 12 years ago, who's been emailing you every once in a while, ever since.
02:15:34.000 And he was in the middle of a whole bunch of people who wanted to take selfies.
02:15:37.000 They don't get autographs anymore.
02:15:39.000 They take selfies.
02:15:40.000 And they were lined up.
02:15:42.000 To get selfies with Neil deGrasse Tyson.
02:15:44.000 And Neil deGrasse Tyson turns back on all of them.
02:15:46.000 This is not right.
02:15:47.000 This is not proper.
02:15:48.000 This is not polite.
02:15:49.000 In order to give me a lecture about how hard it had been to make himself into a showman.
02:15:53.000 And it looks easy, but it takes decades of work.
02:15:58.000 Well, I appreciated him giving me the little lecture, but all these people were waiting for him.
02:16:03.000 But he is amazing.
02:16:04.000 So we talk about that incandescent power when you go transcendent on stage, and you become an empty pipe through which something speaks through you, even though they're words that you've thought out for years, but all of a sudden they're speaking themselves through you.
02:16:21.000 And how it's the essence of the forces of history, that ability to give people the sense that they've been yanked out of themselves and are a part of something bigger than themselves.
02:16:30.000 That's the super normal reflex that is the most profound, and it's the one that grabs history by the balls and changes its direction.
02:16:39.000 And Earth, Wind& Fire had that with music.
02:16:41.000 They certainly did.
02:16:42.000 They just didn't have it when it came to the understanding of civilizations from 11,000 years ago.
02:16:47.000 Yeah, right.
02:16:48.000 That wasn't their specialty.
02:16:49.000 That's why you and I specialize in the things we do in order to add to the collective mind that enriches the people around us and us, too.
02:16:56.000 That is so attractive to people to think that we got it from somewhere else.
02:17:00.000 Why do you think that is?
02:17:04.000 Right.
02:17:07.000 Right.
02:17:10.000 Right.
02:17:21.000 Supernormal stimulus.
02:17:23.000 And all of a sudden it takes off.
02:17:24.000 And we're all aware of the fact that we didn't do this.
02:17:27.000 And we're all aware of the fact that there is some supernormal intelligence.
02:17:32.000 But we don't realize that it's we who are the neurons.
02:17:36.000 And in the same way that a hundred billion It's now 86 billion is the figure.
02:17:42.000 So you've got 86 billion neurons in your brain.
02:17:44.000 Well, I got news for you, Joe.
02:17:46.000 The folks in science are saying that 86 billion neurons is you, which is a bloody miracle.
02:17:50.000 And they're right.
02:17:51.000 It is a bloody miracle that a Joe Rogan emerges from 86 billion neurons working together.
02:17:57.000 But you're more than 86 billion neurons working together.
02:18:01.000 You're 86 billion neurons working with 7 billion fellow human beings and the whole bacterial world.
02:18:06.000 And the plant world and the animal world.
02:18:09.000 And it's all contributing to who you are, minute by minute by minute.
02:18:13.000 So we are individual cells in this collective brain the way that individual neurons, who are individually quite stupid, are part of the collective brain that is a Joe Rogan or a Howard Bloom or anybody listening.
02:18:25.000 But it's such an attractive subject that you have these shows like Ancient Aliens.
02:18:30.000 Right.
02:18:30.000 I mean, that's like one of the longest-running shows in the History Channel.
02:18:33.000 Well, because...
02:18:34.000 It is the History Channel, right?
02:18:35.000 Because what we become is something larger than ourselves.
02:18:43.000 It's much larger than ourselves.
02:18:45.000 And so there is something that's super normal.
02:18:49.000 And we can think of it as something supernatural.
02:18:52.000 But we ache.
02:18:53.000 We ache for salvation.
02:18:55.000 And I'm trying to tell people I have a book called The Genius of the Beast, a radical revision of capitalism.
02:19:00.000 And it says that there's an underpinning imperative in capitalism that nobody gets, although capitalists have to obey it in order to make money.
02:19:09.000 And it's, save thy neighbor, be messianic.
02:19:12.000 Save a hundred neighbors, you get a hundred dollars.
02:19:14.000 Save a million neighbors, you get a million dollars.
02:19:18.000 And the book talks about material miracles.
02:19:22.000 And about secular salvation.
02:19:24.000 When Joan Jett's manager came to my office and said, look, I've got this artist, she's been turned down by 23 record companies, could you just as a favor get me one line in cash box, then a record company will sign her, and the record company will make her career.
02:19:39.000 And I had to say, Kenny, listen to me.
02:19:42.000 Once you get a record company, your troubles begin.
02:19:44.000 That's not when your troubles end.
02:19:45.000 The record company will throw every conceivable obstacle and some inconceivable obstacles in your path.
02:19:50.000 And you have to have a Panzertank Brigade strategy.
02:19:53.000 And if you let me do the strategy, if you work as hard as I do 17-hour days, seven days a week, if you do everything I tell you to, I guarantee you we'll have a star in two years.
02:20:06.000 What?
02:20:07.000 She's been turned down by 23 record companies.
02:20:10.000 Where is there left to go?
02:20:13.000 Doesn't that mean she should stop?
02:20:15.000 No.
02:20:16.000 I only said this to two people in my lifetime that I will give you a star.
02:20:20.000 The first one was to the manager of a band called Rufus.
02:20:25.000 Which had a number three single on the charts at that time called Tell Me Something Good.
02:20:29.000 I trapped him in a limousine.
02:20:31.000 I picked him up at the airport and knew we were going to be trapped in rush hour traffic.
02:20:35.000 And said, look, I know your band has prides itself on its democracy.
02:20:41.000 But if you let me put all the attention on your lead singer and you cover my ass with the band, I guarantee you I will give you a star.
02:20:48.000 Those are the only two times I've ever said it.
02:20:54.000 Sure.
02:21:00.000 Sure.
02:21:00.000 Sure.
02:21:14.000 Well, it's not directly about that, but it's occasionally you tap into something bigger than yourself.
02:21:19.000 And occasionally I had visions.
02:21:22.000 And occasionally those visions came true.
02:21:25.000 And so there's something super, not super natural, but certainly super normal about being able to have two visions, only two.
02:21:33.000 One with Chaka Khan, one with Joe and Jack.
02:21:37.000 There are ways in which we form a larger collective intelligence, and we can sometimes tap into it.
02:21:45.000 But if we can't, then we better believe in something higher than ourselves, or we have a hard time making it on the face of the earth.
02:21:53.000 Does this make sense?
02:21:55.000 It does.
02:21:56.000 I don't know if it necessarily makes sense in the context of people having this desire to believe that we've been visited by extraterrestrials, that we've been shaped and molded and helped.
02:22:07.000 I had a conversation recently in the podcast with someone, and we were talking about...
02:22:15.000 Was it Theo we're talking about?
02:22:18.000 People being a product of genetic engineering.
02:22:21.000 Alien DNA being introduced into primate hominid DNA. Where's the missing link?
02:22:28.000 And I tried to crudely explain with my limited knowledge that that's not really the case.
02:22:33.000 We know how humans evolved from ancient hominids.
02:22:37.000 Right.
02:22:38.000 Well, there are a lot of mysteries.
02:22:40.000 There are, but there's Australopithecus.
02:22:42.000 Okay, here's the deal.
02:22:44.000 Imagining that there is a higher intelligence, literally higher.
02:22:47.000 Humans have a thing about heights.
02:22:48.000 Sure.
02:22:49.000 And we're not alone.
02:22:50.000 Crayfish have a thing about heights.
02:22:51.000 Lobsters have a thing about heights.
02:22:53.000 Lizards have a thing about heights.
02:22:54.000 Puppy dogs have a thing about heights.
02:22:56.000 So in that we're not alone.
02:22:57.000 And looking for a higher power in the sense of up there.
02:23:01.000 Yes.
02:23:01.000 Somewhere.
02:23:02.000 Smarter than us, more evolved, us in the future.
02:23:05.000 I mean, that architect, I've always said, seems like what we're going to look like to the architect.
02:23:09.000 Well, if that architect has artificially shaped our DNA, then who shaped the DNA of the architect?
02:23:15.000 Right.
02:23:15.000 The archetype, I'm saying, you know, the large head, the big eyes, the tiny body, is that we are slowly but surely becoming less muscular, more reliant on our minds.
02:23:26.000 Right.
02:23:26.000 Our minds will get larger, our sex organs will be thought of as being problematic.
02:23:32.000 Right.
02:23:36.000 We're good to go.
02:23:56.000 Homogenized.
02:23:56.000 What's that word?
02:23:58.000 Homogenized.
02:23:58.000 What was the other one?
02:24:01.000 Homologous?
02:24:02.000 Yeah.
02:24:02.000 What is that word?
02:24:04.000 Homologized?
02:24:04.000 Yeah.
02:24:06.000 Homologization?
02:24:06.000 What is that word I'm looking for?
02:24:08.000 Whatever.
02:24:09.000 A collection of all the races brought to one form.
02:24:14.000 And everybody will share this form so there'll be no pros or cons, nothing better, and everything will exist in the mind.
02:24:23.000 So it's another version of the Kingdom of God.
02:24:25.000 Yes.
02:24:26.000 And the strange thing is...
02:24:29.000 Space Daddy.
02:24:30.000 Yeah, so the strange thing is that Jesus made these predictions that the kingdom of God was going to arrive at any minute, right?
02:24:35.000 And the first Christians waited around.
02:24:37.000 It was going to happen at any minute.
02:24:39.000 So first it was going to happen any day now, then any week now, then any month now, then any year now, then any decade or century now, millennium now.
02:24:48.000 And so did Jesus' religion disappear because it made a prediction and the prediction didn't come true?
02:24:56.000 No, not really.
02:24:58.000 So apparently the religion is somehow a supernormal stimulus, even though its predictions don't come true.
02:25:04.000 There's something in us that needs a higher something.
02:25:09.000 Well, isn't the prediction of religion just wait around because it's going to come true?
02:25:13.000 Well, it's been very hard to justify that after it didn't come true tomorrow and it didn't come through next year and it didn't come through the following century.
02:25:21.000 We read the scrolls incorrectly.
02:25:22.000 Yeah.
02:25:23.000 It's coming.
02:25:23.000 It has the power to hang in there for 2,000 years.
02:25:27.000 That's astonishing when its basic prediction is utterly false.
02:25:30.000 There's always, every decade or so, there's some group that decides they know when the next...
02:25:37.000 William Miller in the 1800s.
02:25:39.000 Well, there's a recent one, just a few years ago, there was billboards all across the country by some group that had decided it was going to take place on a certain date.
02:25:47.000 Right.
02:25:48.000 And they were like, are you ready?
02:25:50.000 And, you know, the rapture's coming.
02:25:51.000 Right.
02:25:52.000 And they took these billboards out, and then they came and went, and in many years...
02:25:56.000 And then they said, oh, we've made some calculations, and we've made some mistakes, and there's some errors, but it's still common.
02:26:03.000 Well, it happened in 1840. William Miller made a prediction.
02:26:06.000 Everybody sold their goods, and we're waiting for the rapture, and it didn't happen.
02:26:11.000 So William Miller said, I must have gotten my calculations wrong, went back to the calculating board, and came back with a new calculation that was a year later, and amazing.
02:26:22.000 Remember those?
02:26:23.000 Do you remember those?
02:26:23.000 I never saw them.
02:26:25.000 May 21st, 2011. He is coming again.
02:26:28.000 But the point is that William Miller's religion, even after it got it wrong twice, is still around.
02:26:35.000 It's the Adventist religion, and that's in two different sects, and there are at least 22 million of them.
02:26:40.000 Planted around the planet.
02:26:42.000 And Michael Jackson and his mother were Jehovah's Witnesses, which I believe is one of the William Miller-based religions.
02:26:51.000 So, if you fashion the religion right, As a supernormal stimulus, like those eggs with polka dots and day glow that still were able to outfox the real eggs, or out-stimulate the mother, it'll last.
02:27:08.000 And we humans think that we're all about rational prediction and control.
02:27:12.000 No, we're not.
02:27:13.000 But in the face, in the understanding that in the...
02:27:17.000 Greater view of the universe, what we understand about the universe.
02:27:20.000 We are so minuscule.
02:27:22.000 The more we pay attention to it, the more it's just sort of...
02:27:27.000 Embedded into our consciousness.
02:27:29.000 There is a vast universe out there and there are so many possibilities and it's so overwhelming that this framework of religion or occult or whatever you want to call it becomes sort of like a scaffolding in which you can sort of operate inside of this impossibly large thing that we exist in and yet still have meaning.
02:27:54.000 Well, that's a good hypothesis that it brings things down to a scale we can comprehend.
02:27:58.000 I think of it as almost like a bridge to evolution.
02:28:02.000 Yeah.
02:28:02.000 Like of us being wild ape creatures to us having language and comprehension and this concept of our position in the universe being so small and then what is the point of all this?
02:28:15.000 Well, let's give them a point so they can make it to the next juncture.
02:28:18.000 Well, there's a rabbinic idea.
02:28:20.000 And this is from 1500 or something like that, probably in Poland.
02:28:24.000 And the rabbi said, God left creation half-finished, so we should be forced to finish the other half.
02:28:30.000 That's the version I like, because it puts the onus on us.
02:28:36.000 I wish I had my computer, my laptop here.
02:28:40.000 Because I'd read you an epigram that I wrote that's my favorite.
02:28:43.000 But basically, for all we know, well, it's in the laptop.
02:28:48.000 In your laptop over there?
02:28:50.000 Yeah.
02:28:51.000 But, one way or the other, the fact is, every time we do something new, like inventing the smartphone, which Steve Jobs did, We add to the repertoire of the cosmos, because the cosmos has never done it before,
02:29:07.000 so far as we know.
02:29:09.000 And even if there were civilizations on other planets, they'd be taking a path different than ours.
02:29:13.000 So we are like the searcher bees.
02:29:17.000 Our entire civilization is like one searcher bee in a possible cosmic intelligence, assuming that there are other living things, conscious things, intelligent things, elsewhere.
02:29:27.000 And eventually, we will patch all these pieces together.
02:29:30.000 But right now, we're patching together the pieces from trillions?
02:29:36.000 I mean, if there's just a trillion cells in you...
02:29:39.000 Alone.
02:29:40.000 Then think of all the cells we're patching together when we bring together all the creatures of the sea, all of the creatures of the land, all of the microbial creatures, all of the visible creatures, and somehow allowing them to influence our collective brain as we influence them.
02:29:56.000 Imagine what life would be like for bacteria if they couldn't have you as a vehicle, and they couldn't force you to get into your car and go down to Ralph's and buy them those damn chocolate eclairs.
02:30:09.000 The material world would not be the same.
02:30:13.000 You have given bacteria new powers, and they have given you powers you wouldn't have without them.
02:30:20.000 Possibly powers that allowed you to evolve in the first place.
02:30:23.000 Well, they think it changes your personality now.
02:30:25.000 Right.
02:30:25.000 The gut biome actually affects the way you think about the world that you live in.
02:30:29.000 So they're somehow or another shaping you.
02:30:31.000 You know about this illness that you get from cats.
02:30:34.000 Now, when it takes over a cat...
02:30:36.000 Toxoplasmosis.
02:30:37.000 Yeah, actually, when it takes over a rat, rats are normally repelled by the smell of cat urine.
02:30:43.000 And when toxoplasmosis takes over in a rat's brain, all of a sudden the rat is attracted.
02:30:49.000 By the smell of rat urine.
02:30:52.000 Why?
02:30:52.000 Because the toxoplasmosis spends its life part of it in the mouse or rat and part of it in the cat.
02:31:01.000 So at a certain point it has to drive you over to where the cat is likely to find you in order to get itself into the cat.
02:31:08.000 Now think about this.
02:31:09.000 How the hell Does a bacteria learn or a bacterial colony?
02:31:14.000 Because they think in groups of seven trillion.
02:31:18.000 How do they think out how to drive the rat as if it were a robot?
02:31:24.000 And as if it were a tank, and they were at the controls.
02:31:27.000 How did they manage to evolve a lifestyle in which they spent part of their life in one creature and another part of their life in another creature?
02:31:35.000 How did they know the anatomy and the brains of those creatures so incredibly well?
02:31:42.000 We have no idea.
02:31:43.000 We haven't even considered the question.
02:31:45.000 Well, it's a fascinating concept because the cat, the bacterial, the colony, has to actually get into the cat's gut to reproduce.
02:31:55.000 It can't reproduce outside of the cat's gut, which is just insane.
02:31:59.000 And so it has to figure out a way to get into the cat's gut, and the best way to do that is to get into a rat and rewire the rat's sexual reward system.
02:32:07.000 We had Sapolsky on the podcast.
02:32:09.000 Oh, Sapolsky's terrific.
02:32:10.000 Broke it all down for us.
02:32:11.000 And as he's talking about it, you're just trying to imagine how long this took.
02:32:16.000 Well, Sapolsky's one of the MacArthur Genius Award winners who said that The God Problem was a great book.
02:32:23.000 The God Problem, How a Godless Cosmos Creates.
02:32:26.000 So, yeah, we have all these mysteries ahead of us, but every mystery we solve, for all we know, it's the very first time that the cosmos has ever pondered that mystery.
02:32:34.000 And then solved the mystery and then turned the result into a tool.
02:32:40.000 That is a hard thing for people to acknowledge or even consider that we might be the only ones that have gotten to this point.
02:32:47.000 And that some, if human intelligence exists, and we know it does, that it is, as far as we know on this planet, the peak of intelligence, at least in terms of its ability to affect and change its environment.
02:33:01.000 Right.
02:33:04.000 That if something can reach this point here, that it's reached that point somewhere else.
02:33:09.000 But not necessarily.
02:33:10.000 Well, it would be different.
02:33:12.000 But somewhere it had to have been the first place.
02:33:15.000 Why wouldn't it be here?
02:33:16.000 Well, in James Fallow's new book.
02:33:21.000 He's talking about, I think it's Dakota.
02:33:23.000 And there's some river that goes through Dakota.
02:33:26.000 And on one side of the river, the culture is one way.
02:33:29.000 On the other side of the river, the culture is another way.
02:33:31.000 Even with all of our modern communications technologies, there are still differences.
02:33:36.000 And the universe, at least the universe in the case of life, and we only know of life on one planet, It's constantly stretching out fingers into unused territories.
02:33:49.000 It's constantly taking...
02:33:51.000 it's doing the opposite of entropy.
02:33:53.000 It's constantly taking chaff and garbage and stuff that seems like it would have nothing to do with life and turning it into pistons and pillars and...
02:34:05.000 Fuel for life.
02:34:07.000 For example, we humans right now, we're under the influence of another end-of-the-world religion, looking toward a different kind of paradise.
02:34:14.000 It's called environmentalism.
02:34:16.000 And it says that we humans are causing climate change.
02:34:20.000 Now, this is a little silly.
02:34:23.000 We humans may be contributing to climate change, but climate change has been the norm on this planet for 4.5 billion years.
02:34:30.000 This is one of those sacred science subjects that's almost like a scientific Jesus.
02:34:37.000 You cannot question the ancient scrolls.
02:34:39.000 And it's an end times belief system.
02:34:42.000 Because it says the world is about to end because of things we've done, because we've sinned.
02:34:47.000 And if we simply sacrifice to the goddess of nature, To Gaia.
02:34:53.000 The universe will go back to being a stable, a climatically stable Garden of Eden.
02:34:57.000 Well, I got news for you.
02:34:58.000 This planet has never been climatically stable.
02:35:02.000 In the very beginning, it wheeled around its axis once every six hours.
02:35:07.000 That means if you pick any point on the surface, it was in this poisonous stuff called radiation.
02:35:15.000 For three hours.
02:35:16.000 Then it was yanked into darkness, which is equally destructive, and the temperature would go up a minimum of 86 degrees every, whoops, up and down 86 degrees every three hours.
02:35:27.000 That's climate change.
02:35:29.000 Plus, it was on a tilt, and it was rotating around the sun.
02:35:34.000 And as it rotated, the climate went through hideous changes.
02:35:37.000 But this is all way in the past, and what people are concerned with is what our role and what impact human races have.
02:35:43.000 Doesn't matter.
02:35:44.000 What we need to be after is climate state.
02:35:46.000 If we really want the climate to be the way it was in 1650, before the Industrial Revolution, that's a human choice.
02:35:53.000 That's biogenic in origin, and we need to acknowledge that that's what we have decided, and now we're going to develop climate stabilization technologies.
02:36:02.000 My question for you, though, is why is it such a sacred subject?
02:36:06.000 What you've just said, even just questioning it for a moment and saying that environmentalism is a type of religion— Climate denialist.
02:36:13.000 Boom.
02:36:14.000 You could be labeled with that.
02:36:15.000 That's right.
02:36:15.000 And then people would love to break it down in a very simple one-sentence statement and call you, you know, Howard Bloom is a climate denialist.
02:36:23.000 Right.
02:36:24.000 Climate change denialist.
02:36:25.000 That son of a bitch.
02:36:27.000 And the next thing you know, people will repeat that.
02:36:29.000 It doesn't have to have any basis in fact.
02:36:30.000 And nobody will want to sign you anymore for a book contract or anything.
02:36:33.000 Right.
02:36:33.000 They're not looking for any complexity or context in what you're trying to say.
02:36:38.000 They don't want the subtle nuance of what you're trying to express.
02:36:41.000 Right.
02:36:42.000 Well, there's a blunt nuance.
02:36:43.000 We have to develop climate stabilization technologies.
02:36:45.000 If taking carbon out of the atmosphere is a carbon stabilization technology, then so be it.
02:36:51.000 But we have to develop others, because this globe goes through ice ages and global warmings.
02:36:57.000 So you think the answer is in technology?
02:37:00.000 Yes.
02:37:01.000 That's what the answer's always been for humans.
02:37:03.000 I mean, why were we born...
02:37:05.000 Look, we have this chemical in our gut, cholecystokinin, and it only goes off when we eat meat.
02:37:11.000 So we're built to eat meat, and it's a bonding hormone, like oxytocin.
02:37:15.000 It brings people together.
02:37:16.000 So if you're having a good meat meal with a bunch of people, this is a chemical in your gut that says, these are good people, stick with them.
02:37:23.000 Don't tell the vegans this.
02:37:25.000 Yeah, well, so, why, if we were born to eat meat, don't we have claws?
02:37:32.000 Why don't we have ripping fangs?
02:37:34.000 Why don't we have fur?
02:37:36.000 Because we figured out a way to cook it.
02:37:37.000 Because we figured out a way to make clothes.
02:37:40.000 We figured out a way to use skins.
02:37:41.000 We figured out a way to...
02:37:43.000 Figure out a way to isolate ourselves from the environment in terms of housing and control of fire.
02:37:49.000 You got it.
02:37:49.000 And that means that we were born naked.
02:37:52.000 We were naked apes for a reason.
02:37:54.000 Because we are homo tulicus.
02:37:58.000 Whatever that word would be.
02:37:59.000 We are the people of tools.
02:38:01.000 And we developed the first stone tool, to the best of our knowledge, approximately 3.1 to 3.4 million years ago, long before we became modern humans.
02:38:11.000 So we were born in this peculiar way, that is, naked.
02:38:15.000 And without claws and without ripping fangs, after we developed the tools it took, like fire and cooking, which you just cited, to allow us to have artificial claws, artificial ripping fangs, to cook our meals.
02:38:32.000 The big conclusion of a book that I've just read on what makes us different from a neuroscientist, she's the neuroscientist who corrected the standard figure for the number of neurons in the brain from 100 billion to 86 billion by actually counting them.
02:38:47.000 She says what made us human was cooking, just what you said.
02:38:51.000 Because when you cook, you liberate a whole mess of calories and nutritive sources that are not available to a gorilla that's eating leaves.
02:39:04.000 And how do we know that?
02:39:06.000 Because the gorilla is born with a pot belly the size of a Franklin stove.
02:39:10.000 Because it needs this huge digestive apparatus in order to handle those leaves, to break them down into food.
02:39:17.000 Right.
02:39:17.000 Well, when you cook, you don't need that huge gut.
02:39:20.000 Now, the bacteria, or the ape, is not able to go very far, the gorilla.
02:39:25.000 He certainly can't migrate once.
02:39:27.000 You know, you see Jane Goodall, and she is pleading for us to save the habitat of the chimpanzees.
02:39:32.000 Have you ever seen Jane Goodall pleading for us to save the habitat of baboons?
02:39:37.000 Never.
02:39:39.000 The baboons are the rats of Africa.
02:39:41.000 Baboons are extraordinarily adaptive.
02:39:44.000 They're extraordinarily curious.
02:39:45.000 They're always finding new environments and figuring out ways to turn them into food.
02:39:51.000 Chimpanzees don't have that quality.
02:39:53.000 The reason we need to save their environment is because they're so dumb as a group.
02:39:57.000 Because the collective intelligence of a group of chimpanzees is so low that now that they're adapted to one environment, that's the only environment they can adapt to.
02:40:06.000 Whereas baboons who have smaller individual brains have greater collective smarts.
02:40:12.000 Do you see now baboons have domesticated dogs?
02:40:16.000 No.
02:40:17.000 Yeah.
02:40:17.000 Yeah, they domesticated house dogs.
02:40:20.000 Yeah.
02:40:20.000 And figured out a way to keep the dogs near them so they could be alerted to when some intruders are in camp.
02:40:26.000 That's amazing.
02:40:27.000 It's pretty crazy.
02:40:28.000 Yeah.
02:40:28.000 They kidnap these dogs and hold them hostage and feed them.
02:40:32.000 Right.
02:40:32.000 And the dogs just kind of learn to hang around them.
02:40:35.000 Well, they're ideal hunting companions.
02:40:37.000 Yeah.
02:40:37.000 It's very bizarre.
02:40:38.000 Yeah.
02:40:39.000 It's what we did once upon a time.
02:40:41.000 And you could say very easily, it wasn't us who tamed dogs, it was dogs who tamed us.
02:40:45.000 Yeah.
02:40:46.000 Look how well we treat them.
02:40:48.000 Here it is right here.
02:40:49.000 See, they hold on to these dogs.
02:40:50.000 The dogs try to get away.
02:40:52.000 Oh, is that a puppy in its shoulder?
02:40:54.000 It's a puppy on the ground.
02:40:55.000 Oh, I see.
02:40:56.000 And they eventually stay with them in these camps, but they hold them hostage.
02:41:01.000 Look.
02:41:01.000 Amazing.
02:41:02.000 He's dragging this dog around.
02:41:03.000 He's not killing it, not eating it.
02:41:05.000 Right.
02:41:05.000 But they have somehow or another figured out that if they keep these dogs around long enough, the dogs will bark when intruders and predators are near.
02:41:13.000 Amazing.
02:41:13.000 It's crazy.
02:41:14.000 Absolutely amazing.
02:41:15.000 Really crazy stuff.
02:41:16.000 But remember, we were just looking at baboons, and baboons have a brain smaller than the brain of a chimpanzee.
02:41:22.000 Have you ever seen a chimpanzee do that?
02:41:24.000 No.
02:41:24.000 No.
02:41:25.000 Chimpanzees are not highly adaptive.
02:41:26.000 What's the measure of intelligence?
02:41:28.000 Ability to adapt.
02:41:29.000 Yes.
02:41:29.000 Okay, so let's see how we measure the intelligence of bacteria, knowing that bacteria work in a group of 7 trillion and have a collective intelligence within that group, and they have a collective multi- Colony intelligence because once they develop certain genetic tricks,
02:41:45.000 they pass the tricks around in little tiny envelopes for all practical purposes.
02:41:51.000 So they're constantly sharing new bacterial tricks.
02:41:54.000 So we are told by the environmentalists, the New End Times movement, that we have used up all the resources on this planet.
02:42:05.000 We have vastly overburdened this planet.
02:42:08.000 We are eking it out of existence.
02:42:11.000 But bacteria are 12 miles beneath our feet right now, and they are turning raw rock, granite, into bio stuff.
02:42:21.000 Now, if the task of life is to kidnap, seduce, and recruit as many dead atoms as possible into the grand project of life, who's doing the best job right now?
02:42:31.000 Who recognizes that for every ounce of living stuff on the planet, there are a hundred million ounces of dead stuff waiting to be kidnapped and seduced and recruited into the grand project of life.
02:42:44.000 Bacteria get it.
02:42:45.000 Our bacteria nature, you bet your ass.
02:42:49.000 So what is nature telling us through these bacteria?
02:42:52.000 You have a hundred trillion more ounces of Yes.
02:42:57.000 100 trillion more ounces or 100 million more ounces of dead stuff for every living ounce you've got.
02:43:03.000 And your obligation on behalf of life is to do what the bacteria are doing.
02:43:07.000 Kidnap, seduce, and recruit as many dead atoms as possible and bring them into the project of life.
02:43:13.000 Use technology to stabilize the environment.
02:43:15.000 If that's what we choose, yes.
02:43:17.000 And that is what we've chosen.
02:43:19.000 But people are not regarding it as a choice.
02:43:21.000 They're regarding it as something imposed on them by a higher force.
02:43:24.000 Right.
02:43:25.000 No, I'm sorry.
02:43:26.000 Gaia, Mother Nature, is not a higher force.
02:43:29.000 Mother Nature is a bitch.
02:43:31.000 Mother Nature throws every conceivable obstacle on her path, and she can't help it.
02:43:35.000 Why?
02:43:35.000 Because our planet, in addition to the fact that we are on a tilted axis, so we go through a climate change called summer, fall, winter, and spring every single year, and it's a pretty violent climate change, and we have a planet that's been iceball or snowball or twice in its history.
02:43:51.000 The fact is, the planet is on a trajectory, on a path, on a voyage, on a mission that is scarier than the mission of Frodo the Hobbit.
02:44:03.000 It is circling the core of the galaxy approximately every 235 million years.
02:44:09.000 And as it goes through that long voyage around the center of the galaxy, it goes through spiral arms of galaxies that change our climate dramatically.
02:44:19.000 It gathers something like a hundred trillion tons of cosmic dust per year and At certain points, it goes through clouds of cosmic fluff that triple the amount of that dust that we gather,
02:44:36.000 which changes the climate considerably.
02:44:40.000 And we go through a Milankovitch cycle.
02:44:42.000 It changes the climate every 22,000, 40,000, and 110,000 years.
02:44:48.000 Not precisely, but in that range.
02:44:52.000 So, yes, if we want to stabilize the climate, take responsibility for your decision already.
02:44:58.000 Admit that this is a biogenic decision.
02:45:01.000 And then go after climate stabilization technologies.
02:45:04.000 Yes, try removing carbon from the atmosphere.
02:45:07.000 See if it works.
02:45:09.000 But, in the long haul, we are on a 12,000 year passage in which climate has been relatively stable.
02:45:16.000 That's not normal.
02:45:18.000 The norm is rapid climate change much more rapidly than we've seen, and ice ages, and they alter.
02:45:26.000 So we better damn well learn these things.
02:45:28.000 Now, when I was in Japan a few years ago in a conference about harvesting solar power in space and transmitting it down to Earth, which is carbon neutral and a source of such tremendous amounts of power that it defies description— There was a woman from the European Space Agency,
02:45:46.000 and she said, well, if you guys are going to build these giant solar harvesting farms, these five mile by five mile arrays of photovoltaic panels, when you see a hurricane heading for Jamaica, send down a laser beam.
02:46:02.000 It lays the outer edges of the hurricane so that you change the heat at a certain point on that hurricane and redirect it so it doesn't hit Jamaica, so it goes harmlessly out to sea.
02:46:15.000 Well, that's the beginning of harnessing these things, harnessing disasters as energy opportunities.
02:46:23.000 Now, have we ever done that?
02:46:25.000 Well, what about fire?
02:46:27.000 If you'd been the first one to start playing with fire, your mama would have told you, look, you see all those dead animals in there that have been roasted and barbecued by this forest fire?
02:46:36.000 You want to become one of them?
02:46:37.000 Put that back where it belongs.
02:46:40.000 And fire saved us.
02:46:42.000 At the heart of a jet, at the heart of a piston, and the piston of a car, what do we have?
02:46:48.000 Explosions.
02:46:50.000 Explosions?
02:46:51.000 That's one of the most devastating catastrophes we can imagine, an explosion.
02:46:55.000 What causes this very rigid, I don't want to say scientific dogma, but dogma in terms of the way you're allowed to talk about climate change?
02:47:07.000 Well, there are certain aspects of science that are religion because we science people are built with the same supernormal responses in us that the flying saucer people have in them.
02:47:18.000 And that the Christians who still believe in the coming of the kingdom of God.
02:47:23.000 You can't debate this.
02:47:24.000 This is not something like even what you've said so far is outside.
02:47:27.000 Heresy.
02:47:27.000 Yeah, a little bit.
02:47:28.000 Absolute heresy.
02:47:29.000 Like people would get angry at you.
02:47:30.000 Well, one person did.
02:47:32.000 There was an astronomer who had gone up to Canada for God knows what reason.
02:47:37.000 He wrote a book on the evolution of the cosmos.
02:47:39.000 I thought it was brilliant.
02:47:41.000 My friend Eshelbin Jacob, my colleague, who was the head of the physics department at the University of Tel Aviv and the head of the physical association, you know, the association of all physicists in Israel, where they have some pretty good physicists, said, oh,
02:47:56.000 Lee will talk to you.
02:47:57.000 He's a very open guy.
02:47:59.000 And when I got hold of Lee, I forget his last name, but you would recognize it, Lee sent me a note saying, well, it's a pleasure to meet you, but that article that you wrote in the Wall Street Journal about climate was unfortunate.
02:48:10.000 It was something a little harsher than that, meaning you have sinned.
02:48:16.000 And I watched this movement develop from the beginning, and it developed by using conformity enforcers.
02:48:23.000 Well, that Al Gore movie tipped it over the top.
02:48:26.000 It helped.
02:48:27.000 A lot of things helped.
02:48:27.000 An unfortunate truth that just people, they realized they had, I mean, if you want a virtue signal, you've got to get on board.
02:48:34.000 Well, what really put the environmental movement on the map was Earth Day.
02:48:39.000 And the guy who pulled that off really pulled off an amazing PR stunt.
02:48:43.000 That was just an astonishing PR stunt.
02:48:46.000 So that's what started it off, you think?
02:48:47.000 Yes.
02:48:48.000 Yes.
02:48:49.000 Because in the 1950s, When I was the head of the program committee at my high school, I programmed in a guy who talked to us about what was being done to whales.
02:48:58.000 And the pictures were horrifying.
02:49:01.000 This guy was a giant.
02:49:02.000 He was about six foot two.
02:49:04.000 And in those days, that was really, really tall.
02:49:07.000 And he was the most severe person I'd ever met.
02:49:11.000 He walked in without acknowledging me.
02:49:13.000 I had booked him at all.
02:49:15.000 He had a frown on his face that was unbelievable.
02:49:19.000 He walked out with that same serious frown, uncompromising, without saying goodbye, without saying thank you, without any of the normal social graces.
02:49:29.000 And he didn't have a name for what he was doing.
02:49:32.000 Conservation was the name of what he was doing back then.
02:49:35.000 And it was Earth Day that put another word on the map, environmentalism.
02:49:39.000 And that got environmentalism into first grades and second grades and fourth grades when kids are at an imprinting age, when their brains are literally being fashioned around some of the key things.
02:49:50.000 That they absorb at that age.
02:49:52.000 When we talk about impressionable, we're talking about a certain element of the morphology of the brain that wraps itself around certain things and then never lets them go.
02:50:01.000 And environmentalism was built to get into the brains of young people and never leave.
02:50:07.000 And eventually environmentalism developed its own end-of-the-earth scenario.
02:50:13.000 It tried to develop one in 1968 when Paul Ehrlich, who was a butterfly specialist, said that by 1980, which remember 1968 was 12 years away, so that's like my talking about something that will happen in 2030. It seemed a long ways away.
02:50:33.000 And he said, by 1980, we would get to the point where there are so many people on the planet that we'd have to stand on each other's shoulders.
02:50:41.000 There would be no room for us.
02:50:42.000 We would vastly outstrip the carrying capacity of the environment, meaning the food supply.
02:50:49.000 Would run out.
02:50:50.000 It would not be able to keep up with our population growth.
02:50:52.000 And as a consequence, in the early 1980s, people would die by the hundreds of millions in India and China and even the United States.
02:51:00.000 Now, remember back to those days, Joe.
02:51:03.000 I don't know if you know the history of it.
02:51:05.000 You were probably born after it.
02:51:08.000 But remember all the hundreds of millions of people dying in India and China and the United States?
02:51:13.000 Remember how your parents had to stand on each other's shoulders in order to find room to live?
02:51:17.000 No, I don't recall that.
02:51:18.000 You don't?
02:51:19.000 What's wrong with you?
02:51:20.000 I don't understand.
02:51:22.000 So much like the apocalyptic cults, they move the goalposts, right?
02:51:25.000 Yeah, exactly.
02:51:26.000 And so now it's climate change.
02:51:28.000 And originally it was global warming, and then they smartened up to the fact that they better cover their ass just in case we had an ice age.
02:51:35.000 Instead of warming.
02:51:36.000 And glass, what is the planet of global warming and climate change?
02:51:42.000 This one.
02:51:42.000 Yeah.
02:51:43.000 Big time.
02:51:44.000 So they are right and they are wrong.
02:51:46.000 Right.
02:51:47.000 We need to do these climate stabilization technologies.
02:51:51.000 We must.
02:51:52.000 I mean, we've been doing them.
02:51:53.000 You said it best.
02:51:55.000 We've been doing them ever since we invented the fur coat.
02:51:59.000 Which allowed us to get out of Africa and go to the forest ends of Asia when we were still far from being humans, modern humans.
02:52:07.000 That the technology of the cave and beyond that the technology of the hut.
02:52:12.000 All these are climate stabilization technologies on a small scale.
02:52:16.000 Now we need to do climate stabilization technology on a big soul.
02:52:20.000 No, that does not mean that we have to put sulfur droplets into the atmosphere to keep the sun from warming the surface of the Earth.
02:52:26.000 That would be so stupid.
02:52:27.000 It's ridiculous.
02:52:28.000 It's not a reversible move.
02:52:30.000 But if you have a laser harnessing space solar power and you use it to redirect hurricanes, you can see what worked the first time and try something different the second time and the third time until you perfect it.
02:52:44.000 You can't do that with sulfur droplets in the atmosphere.
02:52:48.000 It's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard in my life.
02:52:50.000 But that's the first solution, technological solution, to come out of all of the climate people's mouths.
02:52:57.000 But we need to do what they're talking about.
02:52:59.000 We just have to take ownership of it.
02:53:02.000 Howard Bloom, we've got to wrap this up.
02:53:03.000 This is a very, very enjoyable conversation.
02:53:05.000 I really appreciate it.
02:53:07.000 I'm having a great deal of fun.
02:53:09.000 So if you need me in the future, you can get me on the phone, which is how I do Coast to Coast.
02:53:14.000 Let's do it.
02:53:15.000 How often are you in L.A.? Very seldom.
02:53:18.000 Very seldom.
02:53:18.000 Because I'm on my own dime here.
02:53:20.000 Well, I would be happy to fly you out if you wanted to come.
02:53:23.000 Well, I would love to come.
02:53:24.000 Let's make it periodic.
02:53:26.000 Do I look like I would ever say no to a conversation with you?
02:53:30.000 Let's do it again.
02:53:30.000 Thank you, sir.
02:53:31.000 Really appreciate it.
02:53:33.000 Howard Bloom, ladies and gentlemen.
02:53:36.000 How much?
02:53:36.000 What time is it?