Dave Rubin and Joe Pesci talk about the election, Jordan Peterson's birthday, and why white supremacists are not white supremacists. Dave Rubin is a comedian, songwriter, podcaster, and podcaster. He is also the co-host of Comedy Central's Morning Mashup and hosts the daily show "Comedy Bang Bang Bang The Drum" on Comedy Central. He's also the host of Comedy Bang Bang! He's a regular contributor to Comedy Central and hosts a podcast called Comedy Bang the Drummer. He also hosts the Comedy Central show Comedy Bang! and is one of the funniest people I've ever met in my life. His music is incredible and he's one of my favorite people in the whole wide world. I really hope you enjoy this episode, it was a blast to record it and I hope you do too! -Dave Rubin Music: Comedy Central - Comedy Bang!, Comedy Bang Comedy, Comedy Bang, Comedy, and Factual - Comedy, Factual, by Dave Rubin and Co-Hosts: , and . The 500 is a production of Native Creative Podcasts. Produced in Adelaide, Australia and New York, New York's WFMU. and Waco, Texas's WMMU Join us on socials and all things Native Creative and Native Creative, by Native Creative Productions. Subscribe to Native Creative on Apple Podcasts and become a Friend! Subscribe, Like, Share, and Share, Share and Retweet this Podcast! Thank you for listening and Share this Podcast on your thoughts, stories, opinions, thoughts, opinions and thoughts on anything Native Creative Creative, thoughts and opinions related to anything Creative and culture related to Creative and Creative Creative and social media related to the culture and business related to this podcast! and more! , and much more. - Native Creative Movement Podcasts: Native Creative Media Podcasts, by - Subscribe to our Podcasts & Stories and Stories from Native Creative Minds and Places in this Podcasts by , any other Podcasts! . . . and more coming soon! Thanks for listening to this Podcast & more! - Thank you so much for being Creative Commons & more - PODCASTING! in the Podcasts of Creative Commons by . , and more in this podcast, & on this Podcast is a Podcast Outtro Music: , Thank you!
00:01:09.000They're through long-form conversations like we're all having and all these people that we're now connected with.
00:01:14.000There's something happening where people are going, there's another way to make sense, and let me figure out what that is.
00:01:20.000Doesn't mean we have all the answers, and I'm sure as hell no I don't, and I don't think you think you do either, but we're at least giving them a little room to figure it out, and it's pretty cool.
00:01:29.000It's been fascinating is how many people misrepresent what he says to try to frame him in a way that makes him evil and makes their position seem more ethical or more moral or better or more intellectual.
00:01:43.000There's so many articles being written about him almost on a daily basis that misrepresent what he's saying.
00:01:54.000We've done about 20 shows in the last six weeks or so, bounced around from Nashville and Houston and Atlanta and Chicago and everywhere else.
00:02:10.000Let's say it was all angry white men there.
00:02:13.000That in and of itself doesn't mean it's bad.
00:02:15.000Let's say there was like a really disaffected group of angry white men that really felt like either masculinity had been compromised or they couldn't get jobs or they didn't feel good about their lives.
00:02:25.000Like if there was someone talking to them that was helping them, that would actually be good.
00:02:47.000Well, it's actually usually girls will come up to me after and they'll go, you know, he's a big fan of you guys or he loves Jordan or he loves you or blah, blah, blah.
00:03:39.000Because they want clicks, and the way they get clicks, I mean, you know, the way they get clicks is they say the absolute reverse from the truth.
00:04:32.000I think the reason we all focus on the thing of the left is because it has encompassed culture and media and politics and what you're allowed to say and universities and all that.
00:04:42.000So it makes more sense to focus on that.
00:04:44.000The little sliver of it that's on the right Yeah, it's shitty.
00:05:14.000And for the hours that we're going to sit here now, we can dive as deep into any issue.
00:05:18.000And that's the only way that I can sensibly judge you.
00:05:21.000But the idea that you will look at people, that you would look at a black person, a black person would be sitting there, or a Muslim person would be sitting there, or a trans person sitting there, and you'd go, I have even the inkling of what you think Because of that immutable characteristic, that is actual racism.
00:06:50.000To live freely, however they see fit, or you believe that the government should engineer things and that there should be central planning so that people...
00:07:36.000They're just trying to say whatever they can say that's going to appease both the special interest groups and the lobbyists and the people that are helping them get into place, the people that are going to vote for them, and then just sort of skirt around all the other issues that are controversial to the point where they can get into office.
00:08:27.000But he doesn't have the balls to do it because he wants to maintain being a Republican senator in Kentucky and he's not going to do it if he has to leave the party.
00:08:35.000But I've seen a major shift, I think, in Republicans or at least conservatives or generally people on the right, whatever you want to call that thing.
00:09:10.000It is your duty to do what you see fit.
00:09:12.000The government is supposed to do pretty much nothing other than protect your life.
00:09:17.000So it's supposed to have an army and police and stuff like that.
00:09:20.000And then really just laissez-faire economics.
00:09:24.000The difference between classical liberal and libertarian is how far do you want to go with the government?
00:09:28.000So I think there is some utility for the state.
00:09:31.000But the more I do this, the more I have these conversations and I talk to ANCAPs and real libertarians and all that.
00:09:38.000I find it hard to defend the state at almost any level at this point.
00:09:42.000But I do think that because I don't want to live in Mad Max Fury Road just yet, although we may be heading there, I still will defend the state at some level.
00:09:50.000But I would say everything should be local.
00:09:52.000We have an incredible experiment here with 50 states.
00:09:58.000If your state doesn't have good education, you can go somewhere else.
00:10:00.000If you don't like the weather, somewhere.
00:10:01.000But the second we make everything federal—and this is what—it's not just the left.
00:10:05.000This is what people who were using lazy thinking that you referred to—they think we should just have one law, that we should all live exactly the same no matter where we are geographically, no matter what our religion or however we set our set of views is.
00:11:01.000Now, I could move to Texas, and the property taxes would be way low, and maybe because they don't tax as much, the schools aren't as good, or a series of other things.
00:11:10.000But that's the beauty of the foot vote.
00:11:17.000anyone that wants to keep giving more power to the federal government which is pretty much everybody these days pretty much everybody in mainstream certainly all of the Democrats All of, you know, the mainstream set of Democrats and the Bernie and the progressive crew, they would love for the federal government to control everything.
00:12:01.000I mean, that's how you'll influence things because you can move your family, your value, whatever you bring to your community and your life.
00:12:46.000You know, a sewage leak right outside.
00:12:49.000You want the federal government to deal with that or do you want the local municipality to deal with that?
00:12:54.000You want everything to be as local as possible because that's how you'll influence things.
00:12:57.000And that's how you as an individual will be empowered.
00:13:00.000And that's all I am to say about that.
00:13:01.000No, I'm hearing what you're saying, but I'm just not hearing this...
00:13:05.000This clamoring for the government to take care of everything.
00:13:08.000I mean, you heard a little bit from Bernie, you know, but I just think, again, a lot of that is like, it's not doing it now.
00:13:15.000So the idea is that the solution would be if the government takes over and we take more rich people's taxes, you know, and he'll spout off about income inequality and take that money and redistribute it.
00:13:26.000And then somehow or another, that's going to fix everything.
00:13:58.000So they should at least be honest and say that because a certain amount of people just hear free and you just think it's free, but it's not free.
00:14:37.000We're going to be subsidizing all these people to go to college, where often in college they're learning nothing in gender studies and all of these other crazy classes.
00:14:48.000And we're just going to have this set of people who have no real skills, and we're going to set up businesses that will never want to hire them because the government is going to tell them how much to pay.
00:16:16.000I mean, for the most part, it's a small percentage.
00:16:19.000It's a small percentage, but they have way over...
00:16:24.000Influence on the amount of people they have scared the majority into silence I mean, I don't know how often you're doing colleges these days, but I don't know Yeah, I'm doing them all the time and what I find so I did this thing at University of New Hampshire We posted saw it so look they first off what they did was they were supposed to be about 300 people there So they at first because of the protesters the school said we can't secure a room So think what are they protesting you about?
00:16:48.000Well, technically I was supposed to be there that day with Candace Owens and Charlie Kirk from Turning Point.
00:16:53.000And we were going to talk about cultural appropriation and some of the hot button stuff.
00:16:58.000So I don't even know that they all were there to protest me specifically.
00:17:01.000But anyway, that day was the day that Candace and Charlie ended up on TMZ with Kanye.
00:17:06.000So they bailed on me and just left me for the wolves.
00:20:08.000So apparently another hundred supporters of mine showed up, but they didn't even let them in, even though there were roughly 7,100 empty seats.
00:21:46.000They would scream or they'd start robotically, you know, they set timers and then they robotically chant, we're not the problem or just some other nonsense.
00:23:25.000So she's literally trying – you have a professor that is part of the protesters and she's live tweeting the thing about alt-right Dave Rubin.
00:23:33.000I mean so that's where – when people think it's this little thing, it's – yeah, it's this little thing that's metastasizing and spreading like a cancer.
00:23:41.000And I truly believe that identity politics, that this thing I think is the biggest threat to the West and to freedom that exists.
00:25:36.000You got this fucking dummy who can't focus enough to have a Yeah.
00:26:07.000That's part of the problem, right, is that this becomes something that they know that they can get a video of if they go to your next performance and interrupt you.
00:26:14.000I don't think they won one person over to their side.
00:26:16.000I don't think one screaming lunatic who did not come to respect me, even though I was there to respect them, I don't think they won anybody.
00:26:24.000I think I actually won a lot of people to my side, and I think...
00:26:26.000I mean, I know it because I've received tons of emails about it.
00:26:29.000I know what you're saying, but I don't think it's about winning to your side.
00:26:32.000I think it's about other lunatics that realize there's an opportunity to get attention if they go to your show and yell things out.
00:26:38.000Well, that's why we ended up putting the video up because a couple of them would put up these little clips very selectively edited that made it seem like I was doing things that I wasn't, like I was silencing them or just some other nonsense.
00:26:48.000So then finally I was like, all right, if this is the way the internet is and it just is, then we'll just put up the whole thing unedited, even though I had...
00:26:55.000Ten minutes before, I said, guys, don't even record this.
00:26:57.000I said, don't even record this because Charlie and Candace hadn't showed up.
00:27:05.000But then once people start playing that game, you can either just be the bitch, which I refuse to be, or you can fight back.
00:27:13.000Yeah, it's a weird place to be, because you know what they're doing, and they're essentially just trying to rile you up, and if they're not willing to have a real dialogue with you, they're just yelling, fuck Dave Rubin.
00:27:23.000That really should disqualify you from being a teacher.
00:27:26.000I mean, that's the worst way to communicate.
00:27:28.000You're demonstrating that your thinking sucks, and that you want to teach about gender studies, but yet, you know, you're...
00:27:35.000You're interrupting, and you're trying to claim transphobia, or whatever the fuck he's, she, is trying to claim.
00:27:54.000They truly, they want you, they want to put their foot on your neck and have you stay there forever.
00:28:00.000And that's why every time now that somebody mainstream writes something about you, half the time they're calling you a conservative because they don't know what the fuck to do with this guy who's talking about drugs and all the crazy shit you're talking about all the time,
00:28:15.000but also you're woke enough to actually identify there is a problem here.
00:28:20.000With what's happening in the mainstream.
00:28:21.000So they can't categorize us in any sensible way.
00:28:24.000So in a weird way, especially because me and you also, because of the nature of what we do, we sit from people that are a little scary.
00:28:34.000You know, I had Cernovich on at the beginning.
00:28:36.000And I'm sure you've had plenty of other controversial people.
00:28:39.000And it's like, so there's an odd way that they want to look at the two of us more than other people because by the nature of our jobs, by the nature of how we exist...
00:28:49.000That's a threat if you want to control the way everybody thinks.
00:28:53.000Yeah, you're not supposed to give people a platform.
00:30:01.000Like there's a guy that was a terrible story about a guy who was a conspiracy theorist before Sandy Hook and then his kid died at Sandy Hook and a bunch of people were threatening him and calling him a crisis actor and saying his kid never died and then he realized how insane it really is.
00:30:17.000People are looking for conspiracies everywhere, man.
00:30:20.000I keep hearing them now about Anthony Bourdain, that Bourdain was going to expose some child pedophile ring and that's why they suicided him.
00:30:30.000Without going down fully on that road, there is one odd thing about the Bourdain thing, which is just a few weeks ago, didn't he tweet some odd thing about having the...
00:30:37.000He's met the Hillary Clinton machine or something?
00:34:18.000He's got all these documents from people that worked inside either police or law enforcement that say that there is a standard practice, and this has existed for a long time.
00:34:29.000And when you have peaceful protests, and you can't do anything about it, the best way to do something about it is to take that peaceful protest- We're good to
00:36:36.000I'm just curious because I think part of the article that Barry Weiss wrote in The Times about us, she was talking about that.
00:36:44.000And there's a line in there where she said, you know, if you talk to these people, meaning Jones and Cernovich and all of you, that you're either cynical or stupid.
00:36:52.000And in effect, that was a shot at me and you.
00:36:55.000It wasn't a shot at anybody else because they don't have to talk to other people.
00:37:42.000It says, it seems to me that if you're willing to sit across from an Alex Jones or Mike Cernovich and take them seriously, there's a high probability that you're either cynical or stupid.
00:37:51.000If there's a reason for shorting the IDW, it's the inability of certain members to see this as a fatal error.
00:40:18.000Well, anyway, this gatekeeping thing, I just think it's interesting because if we're going to do what we do well at whatever level we do it, it's like we're going to have to talk to people that people don't like.
00:41:06.000The way we're different, we're friendlier, we're not sitting here with note cards and with IFBs and it doesn't feel all produced and planned and all that, even though I think we both do a hell of a fucking professional show that I think we're both really proud of.
00:41:21.000I think because of that, they think...
00:41:24.000Now you're seeing the real them or something like that.
00:41:27.000I just think they're looking for shit to complain about.
00:41:31.000One of the reasons why I decided to do a podcast in the first place is because I wanted to be able to do whatever I wanted.
00:41:36.000I wanted to be able to talk to my friends, have a good time, fuck around.
00:41:39.000Along the line, it became something different.
00:41:42.000And along the line, it became not just talking to my friends, it became talking to people that are famous or interesting people or professors or writers or whoever it is.
00:42:20.000How aware are you of the thing that you just said there, that you did exactly what you set out to do?
00:42:26.000I don't know that you fully set out to do it this way, but you did it.
00:42:29.000This thing that you have created is so it.
00:42:32.000It is so what you wanted to do, whether you fully got it or not, but you created it.
00:42:36.000It's awesome like I'm I'm doing it at a I think a lower level than you are but I'm very aware of that that like I somehow I Hated what the system was offering and I was like I gotta do something that feels right for me And I came at it from a different place did it cuz I didn't come out from a place like I need a gig I came at it from a place like it'll be fun.
00:45:11.000Let's say everything I said for the first 10 minutes about politics is wrong and we should have strong federal government and identity politics.
00:45:16.000Even if that's how it really is, am I really the biggest problem here that people are all day long devoting Twitter accounts, people that make accounts all day wrong?
00:46:23.000I mean, I don't want to go too far in it, but in effect, it's when I did that PragerU video about why I left the left, that's sort of the genesis of it, of sort of giving people a little bit of a road map.
00:46:51.000It was about a year and a half ago, February of last year.
00:46:55.000Well, I had actually never said the phrase why I left the left, but I just talked about my frustrations with the left and why I believe in freedom and in liberty.
00:47:06.000And actually, the first half hour when it dropped, I was pissed because I was like, man, did they just blow my gig?
00:47:14.000I really felt at that time, I feel a little differently now, that I was trying to fix the left from within or at least have conversations as someone that was one of these people.
00:47:23.000That's why I was focusing on the left.
00:48:13.000It's what Peterson's telling these people every night that thousands and thousands and thousands of people are showing up every night and he talks about the individual.
00:48:21.000He talks about stand up straight, clean your room.
00:48:24.000These things all sound silly, At some level.
00:48:27.000And the more that I'm with the guy, it's like he is giving these people something that has just been so lost.
00:49:33.000All we can do is judge people as individuals and you have to just figure out what is right for you.
00:49:39.000So for all the people that I disagree with that are sort of like big government lefties and blah, blah, blah.
00:49:43.000And I get why that you maybe need a little more of that if you live in a big city where you might need more noise regulations than if you lived in the freaking – if you live in the middle of Idaho on a farm or whatever.
00:49:51.000It's like if that's the life that you want to live, then fight for that.
00:49:54.000But what we're doing now is this collectivist craziness is causing people to be unable to think clearly.
00:50:01.000So like Huffington Post yesterday wrote a thing about how you have to choose between being for gay people or said – I think it was for For queer people or for Chick-fil-A? Oh, is this because of Jack?
00:50:12.000Yeah, because Jack retracted his tweet about Chick-fil-A. Did he have a tweet about Chick-fil-A? Yeah, he tweeted that he showed a digital receipt that he bought Chick-fil-A and then Soledad O'Brien was like, you tweeted that on Gay Pride Month.
00:51:34.000But that's what individualism is about.
00:51:35.000If you want to make the choice, if you think that whatever Chick-fil-A is doing to gay people, whatever they're secretly doing to gay people, if you think that's so evil, even though, by the way, During the Pulse nightclub shooting at the gay club in Florida when 51 people were killed, they gave free food to everybody.
00:51:49.000But if you think they hate gay people that much, then don't shop there.
00:51:53.000But you don't have to harangue everybody else into doing everything that you want them to do.
00:51:58.000That's actually the reverse of freedom.
00:52:02.000I could see people, if they're saying that Chick-fil-A is a homophobic institution, that you shouldn't endorse Chick-fil-A, particularly if you're a gay man.
00:52:21.000But he clearly is an influencer, and I think that the Cash App, if I had to guess, because they sponsor this podcast, they're very active in sponsoring podcasts, they probably have some sort of an endorsement deal with him, which is why he did that.
00:52:37.000So it was a financial thing for the Cash App, if I had to guess.
00:53:03.000But it goes exactly to where we started with this whole thing.
00:53:06.000There is this loud group of people and most of them have some sort of odd influence in media.
00:53:11.000They're all of these Blue Check, BuzzFeed, 4,000 Twitter follower people that retweet all of the articles of the people like them at Salon and Vox and BuzzFeed.
00:53:20.000And they make it seem like we're all hysterical, crazy people.
00:55:44.000I just don't think there's that much outrage.
00:55:48.000I think there's a business in outrage, though.
00:55:50.000And there's certainly a business in a lot of people that write these articles.
00:55:53.000The Jordan Peterson thing has been very illuminating to me because I've watched them misrepresent his positions on so many different things and call him so many horrible names, transphobic, racist, alt-right, all these different things, and do so with You know, with no justification or rationalization.
00:56:11.000Like, you look at the actual article, and they don't post to what he actually said.
00:56:16.000It's like that woman in the monk debates.
00:58:32.000But what I... I think maybe where we're having a little difference is that I think this thing has spread in a way.
00:58:38.000It is so easy to believe this nonsense, this abject drivel, that it is infecting young people at an alarming rate.
00:58:46.000But by the way, there's a lot of hopeful signs on this because now they're doing all these studies that the generation right after millennials, so the kids that are like...
00:58:53.000You know, like 15 now, that they're actually more conservative now because they see all this as absolute hysteria.
00:58:59.000So I think there is, we are getting like a little bit of a rubber band effect on this thing.
00:59:03.000And I think things are shifting into normalcy.
00:59:06.000And that's why people are listening to your show and listening to Sam's podcast and everything else.
00:59:10.000I think there's an issue with people commenting on things that other people were saying and just sort of jumping in and not having the other person there to Discuss these subjects with it particularly like why do women wear makeup at work?
00:59:26.000Why do women dress the way they dress?
00:59:28.000I think if you sat if you were sitting down with Jordan talking about it He's willing to engage in these subjects with a very very Broad canvas.
00:59:38.000I mean, he's willing to look at all the various aspects of them because as a legitimate intellectual, that's what he's doing.
00:59:44.000It's an intellectual exercise in discussion of cultural norms.
00:59:48.000Like, why do women wear these shoes where you can see their toes in the workplace?
00:59:54.000Whereas if a guy showed up with flip flops on, he'd be like, Mike, the fuck?
01:00:04.000It is strange that women wear very little clothes in comparison to the way men do on these shows.
01:00:09.000And I don't think there's anything wrong with the discussion.
01:00:12.000The problem is framing it as if he's saying, you shouldn't be able to.
01:00:17.000If someone got on TV and said, you shouldn't be able to wear makeup at work, you shouldn't be able to dress like that, that would be a problem.
01:00:25.000So think about what these guys are doing in effect.
01:00:27.000So you're saying that Jordan's taking basically a decent but potentially confusing position, but it's basically a right decision of let's have a conversation.
01:00:38.000So when they write all these hit pieces – and why do they do it?
01:00:40.000Because they can't get anyone – they just did release this study about journalists and they're basically all paid like 45 grand a year and they're alcoholics, just – Mm-hmm.
01:01:02.000Oh, there's a guy out here who's sold over a million copies of his book, who's on tour selling out Beacon Theater and blah, blah, blah all over the world.
01:01:09.000I'm going to write a hit piece on him because guess what?
01:01:11.000That's going to drive a hell of a lot more traffic than writing something honest.
01:02:24.000When people don't represent the opinions accurately, they set up a straw man and then attack the straw man and then have this click-baity title.
01:02:38.000But I'm telling you, man, this tour, it has been a freaking love fest.
01:02:43.000Every night when I go up there and I'm warming up the crowd and I'm doing silly lobster jokes and, you know, some of his other buzzwords and I'll talk about make a couple jokes about Kathy Newman or like some other silly things.
01:02:59.000But I'll go up there and I usually make some reference to the intellectual dark web.
01:03:03.000And if I say your name or I say Shapiro or Sam or whatever, people go crazy.
01:03:09.000And what I'm realizing about it is all of these people, think about all the people, however many hundreds of thousands of people are watching this or listening to this right now, and then how many millions will, you know, in the next two weeks or whatever.
01:03:20.000Most of them are doing it alone, right?
01:03:22.000They're watching on their phone or they're listening on their iPad, whatever it is, or you're maybe watching with your boyfriend or girlfriend.
01:03:27.000But most people, it's a pretty solitary experience in the world of what we do.
01:03:31.000Now imagine, and it's like when you do stand-up.
01:03:34.000Now 3,000 people piled into this place.
01:03:37.000And you can look around and go, whoa, there's some other people like me.
01:06:08.000That's crazy that a journalist would insert himself into that sort of a situation and interrupt and yell things out, and people don't have a problem with that.
01:06:17.000We are truly watching the implosion of the media.
01:06:21.000And that's why I meant before, it's like, if they would just lie a little bit, I think?
01:06:45.000Half the time, it's like they pretend they're nonpartisan, but if you just look at any of these journalists' Twitter feeds, it's like pretty obvious what you all are, all of you in the mainstream media.
01:06:54.000They've created an opening so that now, if people want some sense of truth, you turn into...
01:07:00.000Joe Rogan and you're turning to all of these other shows.
01:07:03.000I think it's very difficult to get employment if you're not on one side of the fence or the other side of the fence and you're a journalist.
01:07:11.000It's not a simple world like the world of podcasting where you truly can be independent.
01:07:57.000And I've seen this because it's this weird environment where You want these people to like you so you're terrified of saying anything, even remotely controversial, that doesn't stick to the script of this left-wing discourse.
01:08:13.000So there's all these people that are just faking it.
01:08:17.000They might not even have real opinions, but they've adopted this predetermined pattern of opinions that they think that is going to help them get through the door with these producers and these studio executives.
01:08:29.000And then when someone breaks free, occasionally someone becomes right-wing, whoever the fuck they are, whether it's Chuck Woolery or Dennis Miller, or they're like, look at that fucking crazy man broke from the pack!
01:09:09.000Yeah, he's dealt himself in he's all in he's all in and he's like sort of like resigned himself to never work again Yeah, I mean means but he's probably like 75 years old or whatever he is.
01:09:18.000He's probably I don't give a fuck anymore.
01:09:19.000Yeah, I mean I'm pretty sure he's got fuck you money like probably Yeah, he's definitely saying fuck you.
01:09:24.000So if he doesn't have the money she might want to Yeah, yeah, exactly but doesn't that prove though why doing this What was the right thing to do?
01:09:51.000We definitely need to grow because my guys are just doing too much.
01:09:54.000But I'm also very aware that the more we start growing, that all the problems that you just laid out will start becoming more and more real.
01:10:01.000So I like being as slim and trim as possible, at least for now.
01:11:51.000I just don't understand why someone's willing to be dishonest like that.
01:11:56.000Like a cursory examination of people's thoughts and positions on things would lead someone to realize I'm definitely not a right-wing person.
01:12:05.000The thing is that they have owned the narrative for so long.
01:12:08.000They think they can still get away with it.
01:12:10.000And what's happening is now it's shifting.
01:12:13.000And that's what I mean by I think we're starting to win.
01:12:16.000And I don't mean it win like we're going to destroy these people.
01:12:18.000I mean I think the narrative has started to shift a little bit where the enthusiasm behind the conversations that we're all having, whoever it is in this thing, the enthusiasm is so great and there is no counter-enthusiast.
01:12:31.000Like where are all the – Versions of us on the other side of this.
01:12:38.000The people that really are selling identity politics at a really great way, at a comedy level, who have a huge podcast.
01:12:45.000Where is that intellectual set of people?
01:12:48.000Where's the Sam Harris of the other side of this that have real followings?
01:12:51.000They don't exist and that's partly why the hysteria has been ramped up.
01:12:55.000They can't believe That out of nowhere, just because of all of our just wherewithal and desire to do what we think is right or what makes us happy or whatever the hell you want to call it, they can't believe we all freaking created something.
01:13:08.000Well, I'm weirded out that we're all in a group.
01:13:11.000I'm weirded out that we're in a super boy band.
01:15:22.000And I think that's where a guy like me and Shapiro, although we have very different opinions on many different things, I think we both are intellectually curious.
01:16:12.000Well, now he takes the libertarian position, which is the government shouldn't be involved.
01:16:16.000But I don't know – but I see a lot of conservatives doing that where they should have all – like this is where Rand Paul, who I mentioned before, he should have been years ago screaming that he's for gay marriage because if you're truly a libertarian – If the government doesn't tell me what to smoke, what to sleep with, then the libertarians could have taken a really awesome,
01:16:33.000powerful, principled position and said, this isn't about religion.
01:16:47.000I supported it when I was 13. This fucking grown-up old lady with grandchildren.
01:16:53.000It's telling people that she's not for gay marriage until it became convenient politically.
01:16:58.000And she just wanted to separate herself as being at least the semi-conservative option compared to Barack Obama.
01:17:05.000Look, Barack Obama was not for gay marriage at the beginning.
01:17:08.000He got pinned into it because Biden made that stupid comment on Meet the Press where he was basically like, everyone's for it, and then Obama had to come out for it.
01:17:14.000If all of this stuff that we're talking about keeps winning, if it all keeps winning, what will happen in 50 years?
01:17:21.000They will literally look back at video of Barack Obama campaigning the first time around saying that he's for traditional marriage and they will call Barack Obama a homophobe.
01:17:30.000And they will eventually want the Barack Obama library that's being built now in Chicago, they will want that being taken down because that will be the statues of our day.
01:17:40.000So that's why I don't know where you're at on the monument stuff, but I would not take any of them down.
01:17:44.000You can put up a counter plaque or something right next to it to say Robert E. Lee did this or that.
01:17:49.000But the idea that they're removing this shit, I think, is absolutely terrible.
01:17:55.000There's a problem with having them in town squares and celebrating them.
01:17:58.000But there's also a problem in that they were all most of them.
01:18:01.000The ones that they're talking about in the South, they were resurrected during the Civil Rights Movement to sort of counteract the Civil Rights Movement.
01:18:49.000There's something to the argument that they're racist statues and especially if you understand the motivation behind creating them in the first place.
01:18:56.000Yeah, the problem though is that You know, I mean, I know you know this, it never ends where it's supposed to end.
01:19:01.000No, people wanted to go after George Washington and Trump said that.
01:19:04.000Trump said that and people were ridiculing him and then almost immediately afterwards someone wanted to take down a statue of George Washington.
01:19:11.000I was in Old Town Alexandria where George Washington's church was and it's actually the same church that Robert E. Lee went to so they had a plaque for both of them and because they took down the Robert E. Lee one they also took down the George Washington one at the church that George Washington went to.
01:19:25.000I mean if you follow that logic I think?
01:19:50.000At the same time, he was writing the laws that freed the slaves.
01:19:54.000So without this man, these things don't move forward.
01:19:57.000So we all live with these odd inconsistencies.
01:20:38.000What kind of weird relationship did they have?
01:20:39.000She had inherited them I think from her parents or something like that.
01:20:41.000Like it's all – it's deeply twisted and warped and of course it was – now of course we can objectively look at it and go slavery was wrong and you shouldn't – of course.
01:22:30.000We will agree on the need to better secure the border and to punish employers who choose to hire illegal immigrants.
01:22:39.000We are a generous and welcoming people here in the United States, but those who enter the country illegally and those who employ them disrespect the rule of law.
01:22:48.000And they are showing disregard for those who are following the law.
01:22:54.000We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked, and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, and lawfully to become immigrants in this country.
01:23:11.000So that's why we need to start by giving agencies charged with border security new technology, new facilities, and more people to stop, process, and deport illegal immigrants.
01:23:24.000Having said that, securing the borders alone does not solve immigration management.
01:23:30.000We're going to have to better manage legal immigration in order to end illegal immigration.
01:23:37.000Senators McCain and Kennedy point us in the right direction on that point.
01:23:41.000Right now we've got millions of illegal immigrants who live and work here without knowing their identity or background.
01:23:49.000That's part of the reason that we need a guest worker program to replace the flood of illegals with a regulated stream of legals who enter the United States after checks and with access to labor rights.
01:24:01.000Part of the reason that illegal immigration is so damaging is that it ends up Creating a pool of workers with depressed wages and no rights.
01:24:12.000And that's not something that we find acceptable.
01:24:36.000We can't let them go ahead of lawful people who are trying to enter the country.
01:24:40.000We need better border security, more process and deportations.
01:24:44.000We have to better manage legal immigration.
01:24:46.000And then he talked about the millions that are here now, which in effect is a pathway to citizenship, which by the way, Trump is basically for at some level.
01:24:54.000So what are we really talking about every time we scream that everybody is racist?
01:25:10.000He was elected in 2008. And so he was probably gearing up to run.
01:25:16.000When he was in 2005, the things that he was saying, he was letting people know who he is and that he's out there and starting the ball rolling.
01:25:24.000You know this is a different time too.
01:25:36.000What does that actually say about the way things have changed or the cult of personality around Trump or just sort of the general derangement of the media that they can't view these things?
01:26:02.000People should be able to do whatever they want or whatever you want to say.
01:26:05.000And then a bunch of people can agree or disagree or retweet it or screen grab it because they think that it's damaging to you and they put, I can't believe you support this piece of shit.
01:26:16.000You can wake up on any given morning, find someone you've never heard of who said something you slightly disagree with, and you can help get them fired.
01:26:22.000There's a lot of people want to do that, too, which is really interesting.
01:26:25.000That people want to get people fired for opinions.
01:26:28.000That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
01:26:30.000But really, if we were to do a deep dive on that, it's like, well, what did we just hear that is different than what Trump is trying to do right now?
01:27:19.000Well, it's like if Obama, when Obama ran, he said he would sit down with Ahmadinejad and he would sit down with the leaders of North Korea and the rest of those things.
01:28:30.000Why would you hope for failure, especially failure for the whole country and sending people into a recession, which is undoubtedly going to cause suicides and turmoil and crisis and people going to go into panic thinking and panic voting, which is not what you want.
01:28:44.000I mean, literally, that's what started Hitler.
01:28:46.000I mean, that's what started Nazi Germany, right?
01:28:49.000They were in the middle of a horrible recession, and this guy came along that proposed a solution.
01:28:54.000You're not going to get a better version of the future by people living in fear and poverty and sadness.
01:29:05.000I didn't vote for Trump, but he's the president.
01:31:06.000Call him fat and short and you know like it was very funny like what he does is kind of funny and then he gets to have a meeting with the guy and the guy agrees to a meeting with it.
01:31:17.000They don't know what to do with him because North Korea and South Korea when the presidents of the two countries met at the DMZ and shook hands like that was an historic moment.
01:31:26.000Yeah Maybe they can get past all this fucking bullshit that's been going on forever.
01:31:30.000And if part of that was helped in some way by Trump being crazy, like maybe it's good to have someone that fucks things up a little bit and mixes it up.
01:31:38.000It doesn't mean he's a perfect person.
01:31:47.000So he brings in John Bolton, who's thought of as a neocon, like a warmonger neocon.
01:31:51.000And then he has Mattis as the Secretary of Defense, warmonger neocon.
01:31:55.000Maybe what he was doing is that he was scaring people from the...
01:31:59.000Going, I'm going to bring in all these people who are really scary, who don't talk about peace that often, who talk about exercising our power and all of that stuff, so that Kim Jong-un is going to go...
01:32:11.000Maybe this time they might actually depose me.
01:32:17.000And by the way, this is where I would say my side in this, the libertarian side is pretty weak on this.
01:32:22.000Because a guy like Rand Paul, what he would say is, you know, we should be cutting all military and never doing anything, blah, blah, blah.
01:32:27.000In which case, you can make a strong argument that you're constantly emboldening your enemies all the time.
01:32:31.000Because if they know you never want to do anything...
01:32:45.000I just don't understand the logic behind wanting a recession.
01:32:49.000I mean, I can understand the logic around wanting someone else to take over in two years or three years when the new elections take place, but...
01:32:55.000But don't you think things are basically going pretty well right now?
01:32:59.000Like, if you remove the Twitter hysteria, like, remove just, like, hysteria stuff, like this he said, she said.
01:33:04.000Like, in terms of what's happening in the country right now, black and Latino unemployment all-time low, economies chugging along, like, the basic things that matter for a society are working.
01:33:20.000I don't know enough about this, but what's been explained to me is that a lot of this is the momentum of what Obama did when he was in office and that the economy, he's riding the work of Obama.
01:33:33.000He's riding the wave of the previous administration's policies.
01:34:17.000Like we've got a guy that maybe has just picked up the ball and he's the lucky guy and maybe he's going to get it to the next thing.
01:34:23.000But what I'm actually more enthused by is that I think after all this craziness that we're in right now, I actually think people are so starved for sanity and like a reset to decency.
01:34:34.000I actually think things are going to get much better.
01:34:37.000I think, again, this is where I think the conversations that we're all having are affecting things in a big way.
01:34:41.000And I think that even politically, it's going to start bubbling up.
01:34:45.000When I was in DC the other day, I was at a small dinner with a pretty – Influential senator who probably doesn't want me to say his name at the moment.
01:34:52.000I'm not gonna say it, but I'll tell it to you later.
01:36:03.000Jordan has been one of my favorite lightning rods for observation for watching this because all the disingenuous articles about him deceptive Talking about his positions and in extremely inaccurate ways and labeling him as some sort of a prejudiced terrible person What those have done is solidified This idea that there is a campaign of people that just are completely ideologically driven and they don't mind being deceptive
01:36:47.000We're going about most conversations from a place of objectivity as much as we possibly can.
01:36:54.000Most people are subjective, at least to a certain extent.
01:36:57.000As much objectivity as we can, as much honesty as we can, and just talking about things.
01:37:02.000And this is something that's not happening in these little click-baity articles or in...
01:37:08.000People that interrupt your shows and shake fucking jars of nickels or whatever they're doing.
01:37:13.000All that stuff strengthens this position that we're in, that we're in this weird time of intellectual dishonesty and turmoil.
01:37:24.000And I think a lot of it is because there's a lot of people that were just extremely upset that Trump got into office and anything that seems to represent that position or that side must be opposed violently.
01:37:35.000So I think underneath everything you're saying right there, you're very hopeful right now.
01:37:39.000I actually sense that you're really hopeful, and I am too.
01:37:41.000And it's like, how could we ever do this if we weren't, right?
01:37:43.000I would say that if I had to sort of whittle it down what I am at the core, I basically am a world-weary optimist.
01:37:51.000I'm an optimist by nature, but I believe that the world is rough and tumble and all the things that Jordan would say about existence, I believe.
01:38:00.000But I'm still an optimist despite that.
01:38:02.000And what you just said right there basically is showing that the Trump thing was necessary because imagine if Hillary was president right now and the same machine and bullshit nonsense and media and all of that stuff kept churning along.
01:38:15.000Think how much worse it would be for these conversations right now.
01:38:18.000We would so be on the wrong side of things so to speak.
01:38:23.000And the forces that don't want us to do anything good and have conversations would have been so emboldened.
01:38:28.000Trump just came and took a freaking bat to the whole thing.
01:38:31.000Now, as I discussed with Eric Weinstein, it's like Trump was the bull in the China shop.
01:38:35.000I think most of us would have preferred a panther.
01:38:37.000We kind of wanted something to walk through, knock a few things off.
01:38:46.000But after this, for every reason you just said, there is going to be a return to sanity.
01:38:54.000It goes one of two ways, but I just am a firm believer that it will go that way, that there is enough of us out there now trying to reset things, and because I don't think people are evil, I don't think people want to be talked down to, I don't think people are dumb, and even the people who are dumb, I don't think they want to be dumb.
01:39:10.000And because of all of that, I think this was the necessary thing to happen right now.
01:39:37.000I've got a freaking Declaration of Independence in our control room and a constitution and a big American flag.
01:39:42.000Like, would I rather someone who knew what the Federalist Papers are and all of those things be in the Oval Office?
01:39:49.000You don't get everything you want in life.
01:39:51.000So you just kind of work with what comes.
01:39:53.000And I think we have a little room to work right now.
01:39:55.000I think also as more people open themselves up to the ideas that Jordan is espousing, or you are, I am, or more people are genuinely objective about these ideas and start discussing them, the more frantic The people on the radical left,
01:40:13.000what they call the regressive left, the more ridiculous they're going to get and the more obvious it's going to get that they're out of control.
01:41:01.000And what they're doing is they're creating a situation where they're going to cause a rebound so that people will be like, oh, these guys aren't all nuts.
01:41:10.000But if they destroy all of our ability to have this conversation, Then when the real Hitler comes in, we won't even be able to recognize it because they will have cried wolf to the point that someone's going to come in and they're going to have a big smile.
01:41:50.000Like, what scenario do you foresee that could be possibly...
01:41:55.000If the ideas of what I consider the fringe left, which are pretty much mainstream Democrat ideas already, if the Democrats keep going more towards the Bernie, Elizabeth Warren, Keith Ellison, real hard left progressive stuff, it is rooted in identity politics,
01:42:17.000That even today, did you see this at Harvard?
01:42:19.000I just tweeted out when I was on the way here.
01:42:21.000Harvard released this statement defending the fact that they're okay with basically having quotas that work against Asian students because they want to have more other minorities, basically meaning black or Hispanic minorities.
01:42:43.000You're going to hire the most qualified person or are you going to try to figure out every little identity thing to figure out who you should hire?
01:43:19.000If you now say, well, wait a minute, these people played by the rules.
01:43:22.000They came here as in most, you know, like all of our ancestors virtually came here pretty much with nothing.
01:43:27.000People owned small businesses, busted their ass, worked in coal mines, etc., wherever you had to do it.
01:43:32.000If you do all of those things and then you focus on education and on family and all of those things, and now the system is going to say, well...
01:43:40.000Worked for a while, but we're going to have to put you at the bottom of the thing now.
01:44:02.000I watch the show, and I know you guys definitely have disagreements on stuff, as do I do when it comes not only to politics, but tactics sometimes and stuff, but I really do like her.
01:44:10.000You know, look, she's causing a massive rift in the black community, and you can see it in the numbers.
01:46:25.000That Latinos are even starting to split a little bit differently because I think for all the people that came here legally, they're actually not as thrilled with illegal immigration as the media may imply that they are.
01:46:35.000So I think there's just massive shifts happening all over the place.
01:46:39.000And the way we look at voting where every election, you know, what's his name?
01:46:44.000John King goes on CNN and shows you the map and he goes, well, the white working class people here voted this way and the black inner city people.
01:46:50.000I think all of that is about to explode.
01:46:53.000And they won't know what to do because they haven't been listening, but I think some others have been listening.
01:46:59.000Do you think there's real room in this country for a third party?
01:47:01.000I mean, I think for sure someone could take a position that's outside those two boxes and make some real valid points and have a little bit of ideas from each side.
01:47:11.000But the real concern in this country seems to be throwing your vote away, right?
01:47:16.000That's the thing that people are always worried about.
01:47:17.000Well, if you go that way, you're throwing your vote away and you're essentially...
01:47:21.000Giving it to the person that is on the other side.
01:47:23.000So I used to kind of buy into that, right?
01:47:26.000Because realistically within – but this is why I was so disappointed in Gary Johnson.
01:48:17.000One issue is that they apparently went to places they thought would deny them so that they could make a story out of it.
01:48:25.000It wasn't as simple as a loving couple went to some place, they wanted to get a cake made, and the people said no, and they're like, what the fuck?
01:48:53.000I think you should let people know publicly that these are people that they discriminate against gay people.
01:49:00.000And so if you want your dollars to represent your opinions and your feelings on things, maybe you shouldn't buy a cake from these folks that don't want to make a cake for gay people.
01:49:11.000But the idea that government's going to step in?
01:49:46.000Like, did he want two men holding hands?
01:49:49.000So apparently the conversation actually never got to that point because he denied them before that because he knew what it was going to be.
01:49:55.000So it never got to like, oh, are you going to draw us together or whatever, but he knew it was going to be a gay wedding.
01:50:00.000So he just said, no, I'm not making a cake for a gay wedding.
01:50:11.000So it's – look, we have the Civil Rights Act of 1964. You have to serve people based on race and all of the minority statuses that there are.
01:50:21.000But there are – there is a libertarian argument that basically would say – We don't need those laws anymore because the Civil Rights Act was in response to Jim Crow laws where states in the South had discriminatory laws.
01:50:34.000So we had the federal government come in and clean that up for everybody.
01:50:37.000So you have to serve everyone equally.
01:50:39.000You can't deny a black couple to come into your restaurant or you have to serve them.
01:50:43.000So why can you deny a gay person then?
01:51:13.000Like I wish in my heart of hearts, I'm gay again.
01:51:16.000Like I wish that every baker would treat everyone equally and every person would treat everyone equally.
01:51:22.000They're not allowed – he wasn't allowed to deny them something that was in the store already because you can't deny based on those protected categories.
01:51:30.000So he wouldn't – by the Civil Rights Act, he wouldn't have been allowed to deny interracial couple a cake that existed there already.
01:51:38.000Could he have denied them one that he would have had to draw a black woman and a white woman if he was a real racist?
01:52:38.000I don't want people to be homophobic or transphobic.
01:52:41.000But the idea that the government can use its authority to make people do all of these things I just think is absolutely crazy.
01:52:47.000So whether they decided to intentionally inflame this or not by finding people that weren't going to do it, if you're listening to this right now and you're getting gay married or untraditionally married, as they call it,
01:53:03.000if you're doing that and you live in Alabama and there's only one baker there and he doesn't want to bake a gay cake, It sucks.
01:53:08.000But what you might want to do is what I said about an hour ago, which is maybe leave that town.
01:53:13.000Like, maybe take your skills, whatever worth you bring to a community, and move to a bigger town where there probably is someone that'll do it.
01:54:45.000Ted Cruz, what does he say about gay marriage anymore?
01:54:48.000But that's again why Rand Paul should have led or the real, the true conservatives that believe in limited government should have led the charge on this.
01:54:55.000So this is where the progressives did do something right years ago because they were fighting for real equality.
01:55:01.000Because real equality means you should be able to marry whoever you want.
01:55:04.000They weren't going for extra rights for anyone.
01:55:07.000Now they're going for extra rights because we all have equality.
01:57:20.000Well, okay, let's just give more money to this thing that wastes money on everything, that has no accountability, this giant money-churning monster.
01:57:35.000If the government was slim and trim and effective and, you know, we were all taxed right and it was transparent and effective and functional, there would be no reason to be a libertarian.
01:57:44.000I'd be sitting here going, I'm for government.
01:58:14.000And between UPS and FedEx and Amazon and drones and blah, blah, blah and DHL, they'd all start – it would probably drop prices because right now we've just got this artificial thing that sits there that then allows them to price according to that.
01:58:27.000But if you drop that, why is the government in that business anymore?
01:59:05.000You get them through the U.S. Postal Service.
01:59:07.000You don't get them through UPS. I'm pretty sure, though, that if the USPS stopped, it didn't exist anywhere, you'd still get chickens delivered.
01:59:13.000And Amazon could probably do it even more effectively.
01:59:24.000Everything you're building here right now, right?
01:59:26.000Do you want the government to tell you how to do all these things and all the regulations that you got to have your electric thing this far from this?
01:59:34.000Regulations like that for construction are important, though.
01:59:36.000You do have to make sure that people don't do stupid shit.
01:59:38.000Make sure you don't have a power line.
02:00:06.000That's why schools collapse on kids in foreign countries sometimes.
02:00:09.000Well, I'm not telling you that I'm against all regulation, period.
02:00:13.000But that's where I said intellectually I like that argument because I think you can make a very sound argument that competition would force people to do better work.
02:00:22.000Like if you're a plumber, you have a vested interest In doing the best plumbing job you can so that people will rate you on Yelp so that you will get more work.
02:00:30.000You don't have a vested interest in cutting corners.
02:00:33.000You're going to push it as much as you can to save as much time and energy and money as you can.
02:00:37.000But once you go over that edge, yeah, you don't want to be known as the guy that you tighten something too much so that you flooded the house.
02:01:16.000These guys, a lot of people that are in construction...
02:01:19.000They'll do whatever the fuck they can to make money and it's not good for the people that have the house because they might have that house for five, ten years before that problem manifests itself.
02:01:29.000The people who are establishing these codes are licensed builders or people that have been involved in construction for a long fucking time and they know what's safe and what's not safe.
02:01:42.000You can't just protect the consumers through the marketplace because Because it takes a long time for these problems to become a real issue.
02:01:50.000And these problems could potentially damage everybody in the neighborhood.
02:01:53.000It's not just going to affect the person on this one lot.
02:01:56.000Like if a fire starts, it burns all the houses in the neighborhood.
02:01:59.000Or if a flood happens and it floods everyone downhill, it's a real problem.
02:02:06.000And, you know, my dad wasn't in construction, so I'm not privy to like all of that, the little stuff.
02:02:12.000But I genuinely believe that as a general level, People have a vested interest in, especially now because of phones and apps and Yelp and all the things, doing good work because that's how you will get more work.
02:02:38.000People who actually understand what's going on.
02:02:40.000And make sure that someone doesn't do something stupid with a power line or someone do something stupid with the way they constructed main beams where they're subject to collapse.
02:02:51.000Because most people buying a house don't know what the fuck they're looking for.
02:02:54.000Most people getting a house built, they have no idea about construction methods and they need someone to inspect things and make sure that it's up to code.
02:03:32.000I think there's a lot of idealistic notions about deregulation and I think there's some consumer protection has to be put in place because people don't have the time to spend all this time researching construction methods and making sure everything's done correctly and be there and make sure that the joists are a certain width and they have a certain amount of support.
02:03:55.000All that stuff has to be done by people who understand code.
02:03:58.000Assuming that the government regulators understand code correctly and aren't just on the take or just basically just taking money and signing off on things.
02:04:23.000When you're having a house built, and I've had construction projects where I had to explain to people and go through it with builders, they're making sure that the house doesn't fucking fall on you, that the power lines are done correctly, that all the electricity is done correctly, the pipes are laid in correctly,
02:04:40.000your septic system or your sewage system is done correctly.
02:04:43.000Do you think that could be privatized then?
02:04:46.000See, again, I just think it's an interesting...
02:05:08.000If you privatized it, what's the incentive for them to follow the guidelines?
02:05:13.000Yeah, so this is where I'm not telling you that I'm calling for all this.
02:05:16.000I just think intellectually it's just an interesting space to argue something.
02:05:20.000Because I think that there's more, the more that you can give to people to freely do what they think is right, I think generally they will.
02:06:47.000So without whittling it to the definition of greed versus ambition, it's like you do what's good for you, but it doesn't mean you're just running this rampaging program to destroy the world in the name of Joe Rogan.
02:06:59.000You're doing what's good for you because...
02:07:51.000Yeah, that I would say there has to be some, but I've had some interesting people on conservatives who are doing environmental stuff from a conservative perspective, that there's ways to make money actually in green stuff, in green products.
02:08:43.000So what those guys would argue is what I said before, which is that ultimately, especially now because of technology, like in the old days...
02:08:50.000So every time someone cuts regulation, I've heard Bill Maher say this a lot, they're going to start...
02:08:55.000That implies that these businessmen, whatever industry that they're in, that they're immediately going to be like, ha, the regulation's gone, start polluting the water.
02:09:04.000We live in a time now where everyone's walking around with an iPhone, where maybe 50 years ago you could have got away with a lot of bad shit, right?
02:09:11.000Coal miners that were breathing all kinds of horrible shit that nobody was ever going to find out about.
02:09:36.000I just think there's probably better ways to do it than just having the government come in and say, this is what you got to do and now figure it out.
02:09:45.000Because the government isn't that good at most things.
02:09:48.000Yeah, I know what you're saying there, but I do think that obviously there has to be laws in place, specifically laws in place that protect people from someone doing something that's going to damage all the other people in the community.
02:10:08.000So there's a good argument there for why you could have some level of...
02:10:12.000Right, but I don't think it's just like specifically in terms of like someone polluting rivers.
02:10:18.000I don't think it's good enough to snapchat about it.
02:10:20.000I think people should be locked up and go to jail if they find out that someone's dumping toxic waste into the river because it's too expensive to process it and get it removed and put in some place where it's, you know, safe.
02:11:02.000Sentence commuted that's kind of crazy like she showed up and she presented this case about some woman who's a Been in jail for she's essentially jail for life for nonviolent drug offense, right?
02:11:14.000Yeah, and I think how many other people are like her for non-violent drug offense for doing something with your own body and Yeah.
02:11:22.000Well, that's where we're in a full and total agreement.
02:11:25.000I just think that this idea that the pharmaceutical companies can sell drugs, but people can't sell drugs, that they're responsible for the unimaginable number of people that have died from opiate overdoses,
02:12:11.000Prescription drugs with a zillion side effects that are seemingly far worse, including thoughts of suicide and depression and blah, blah, blah, than the original thing they're trying to treat.
02:12:26.000And then you think about how many people that are in jail right now for marijuana, how many people that are in jail for cocaine, how many people are in jail for psychedelics, MDMA. I mean, there's no comparison in terms of the amount of damage done per capita.
02:12:40.000Look, when the thing happened with Roseanne and then she blamed Ambien or she at least said she was on Ambien...
02:12:45.000The Ambien, the parent company, whatever it was, they tweeted out something like, there are a lot of side effects, but it doesn't make you racist.
02:12:52.000But think how glib and ridiculous that was.
02:12:55.000Yes, no one is saying that Ambien makes you racist.
02:12:58.000But Ambien does have a litany of, I don't know, 50 side effects.
02:14:24.000I mean, that's one of the weird things when it comes to gender and responsibility, because there's been so many issues of men and women in particular.
02:14:33.000You never hear about these from gay couples, but men and women, or I haven't heard about it at least, men and women getting drunk and having sex, and then the man gets accused of sexual assault.
02:14:42.000And this has gotten so weird that a guy, preemptively, a guy and a girl had sex, and the guy called the police and wanted her charged with sexual assault because he was drunk.
02:14:56.000And he did it as a preemptive measure because he was worried that she was going to come after him.
02:15:00.000And so the university took action against the girl.
02:15:02.000And I'm like, Jesus Christ, are we playing little stupid games and pretending that girls rape guys when they're drunk?
02:15:07.000Or that it's really devastating for the guy?
02:15:38.000If someone was like pouring drunk drinks down someone's face and they were sober and they were doing it with the intention of raping them once they were intoxicated and they couldn't consent anymore, that's one thing.
02:15:47.000But if two people are getting together and drinking and then having sex and then the woman has regret in the morning when she sobers up so she decides that it was rape because she and he were both drunk, that's preposterous.
02:15:57.000But we don't have this ability to rationally We're good to go.
02:17:00.000Every single one of us listening to this has had sex with someone or done drugs with someone or something, woke up the next morning and been like, fuck, I shouldn't have done that.
02:17:36.000Yeah, but again, this is where the identity politics of all this ruins everything, because you're not saying that anyone that gets drunk, you're saying if a girl, really, although that one example that you gave is true.
02:18:27.000If a guy does that to a girl, if a guy purposely gets a girl drunk and does it because he knows that she wouldn't consent any other way, and then gets her to the point where she's like, and she's barely conscious and fucks her, in my opinion, that's rape.
02:18:40.000But if a couple gets together and they have a few drinks, and they're laughing, they're flirting, and they make out, and then they go back to her place or his place and they have sex, it's not rape.
02:21:20.000It's definitely not good for anybody to take advantage of someone's body and in particular give them a drug where they have no control and then rape them.
02:21:30.000If a girl does it to a guy, it is the same thing.
02:21:32.000If she roofies the guy and has sex, and especially, what if the guy has a girlfriend and he doesn't want to have sex with her, or, you know, fill in the blank, he's not attracted to her, or he's gay, and you do that to him and he's repulsed by it, yeah, it's rape.
02:22:48.000The idea that this guy, who was America's sweetheart, America's dad, was possibly the greatest serial, not the greatest, but one of the worst serial rapists of all time, if not the worst.
02:23:00.000Dude, the first time I came on, we talked about Cosby.
02:23:29.000I used to have Cosby records hanging up in my house even to three years ago and eventually as the story started leaking out, I had one of his great records.
02:23:37.000And at first I was like, I'm just going to leave it up.
02:23:39.000Like it doesn't change my feelings about him as a comic.
02:23:41.000And then I remember people would be coming into my house.
02:23:57.000How could he be the guy who's so funny and everybody loves him and also be the guy that drugs people and rapes them?
02:24:03.000It's like, what a dark, dark, dark secret.
02:24:05.000I mean, I think Jordan would have a lot to say on this.
02:24:08.000These inconsistencies that we live with that often drive us and that, you know, why did we find out that...
02:24:15.000You know, these people preaching about morals all the time are the same people that are doing all this weird shit, or that we've all done things that we're not proud of, or whatever it is, and it's like...
02:24:23.000That's a part of being a human, right?
02:24:29.000I mean, someone who's doing this into his fucking 60s, he was doing this.
02:24:32.000I guess it becomes an addiction like anything else.
02:24:36.000I'm sure people do studies on this about what happens to the actual brain chemistry when you're doing these things.
02:24:43.000And I would guess it has something to do with the dopamine levels that are released at the same time when somebody's snorting coke and doing whatever they're doing.
02:25:48.000And I think what you usually do is you usually talk about ideas, not people, because it's the underlying philosophical ideas that matter, not the specifics of this kid.
02:25:58.000I mean, you didn't pull up the picture of the kid and Mention the girl's name and hers are Twitter and all that.
02:26:03.000But that it's the underlying philosophical issues of why are we doing this?
02:26:08.000Why are we attacking and destroying everybody and all that?
02:26:10.000That that's much more interesting to me than just the specifics of the people or, you know, all the people that I'm so sick of, all these blue check writers and BuzzFeed people.
02:26:20.000Like, I never call them out specifically.
02:26:26.000Well, they're just—they're in the business of writing.
02:26:28.000You know, I think a lot of it is—I mean, we can decide that these people are our enemy, but, like, we're in some ways foes on the battlefield.
02:26:37.000You know, I just— In a very perverse way.
02:26:41.000And I don't—I just think it's just like— Their job is to write about things, and when we're involved in a story, they find an angle and they go after it, just like I do with jokes.
02:26:53.000If I crack a joke about somebody, I do a bit about somebody.
02:27:14.000The same way it is when a lot of these folks write articles.
02:27:18.000And, you know, a lot of them are in their 20s.
02:27:20.000And, you know, they're idealistic or they're young and evolving their thoughts.
02:27:25.000And maybe they wouldn't write that article five years from now or 10 years from now or whatever.
02:27:30.000I think we have to take that into consideration as well.
02:27:32.000These people are embarking on a career in journalism and, you know, for a lot of them shitting on Jordan Peterson gets them social brownie points.
02:27:47.000So I was talking to Jordan about something that I think is kind of interesting that I haven't talked about publicly before, and I thought if I'm going to come on Joe Rogan, let me see if I can bust out something kind of personal.
02:27:56.000So, you know, Jordan was having all these autoimmune problems, and that's kind of what led him to...
02:28:02.000To doing this crazy diet where he, in effect...
02:28:47.000So anyway, we were talking the other day in the green room before the show that it's interesting that He had this health problem as his success was growing.
02:28:56.000And it's like you don't really think about that in life because we all like to think like as we're growing and getting better and doing what we're supposed to do, that our health is kind of in line with that.
02:29:05.000So I've actually never talked about this before, but about two and a half years ago, right when my show was really taking off, I think probably about the first time we did our first sit down, so not the one last year, but about two and a half years ago.
02:29:18.000As I was also first getting hate online at the same time, I started losing tons of chunks of hair.
02:29:50.000And again, this is just as I'm starting to really succeed.
02:29:53.000I'm really just breaking through for the first time.
02:29:55.000And I went on this crazy experimental drug.
02:30:00.000So usually when you have this, they just shoot corticosteroids into your head, and they hope that that Basically reverses it or stops it or whatever.
02:30:08.000Reduces the inflammation that's causing it to fall out.
02:30:12.000But my case was so severe that I found this doctor who's doing this really experimental thing where, in effect, they're putting something like poison ivy on your head.
02:31:46.000A, because I've never talked about it and I thought it might just be something to, like, throw out there.
02:31:51.000But B, what I've discussed with Jordan is just this interesting idea of sort of as you're succeeding and as you're doing what you're supposed to be doing, that life just throws you weird things.
02:34:16.000Like, write your bit, like, as if you...
02:34:18.000And so I think that one of the things about having haters out there or critics out there is that they're examining your material and finding holes in it.
02:34:27.000And I think if you go over all of your material and all of your ideas from the perspective of someone is watching them right now trying to find fault in everything that you do...
02:35:12.000There's a lot on the progressive left, or the regressive left, or what do you want to call it, where they just expect that other people are just going to agree with their stance on things so they have this sort of This very rigid ideology that they're trying to put out there.
02:35:28.000They often think that they're morally right.
02:35:30.000So then you don't have to do the legwork of the argument.
02:35:32.000It's a lot harder to take a position that says you should be who you are and you have to fit that into society rather than saying, this is what the moral imperative is.
02:37:12.000The idea is that there's a bunch of men out there that are taking up all the viable females because no one's getting married and they're just...
02:37:57.000Enforce monogamy has any factor whatsoever in that?
02:38:01.000So he, I think he would say this, but I'm not his lawyer, but I think he used the phrase, all he meant was marriage, that generally societies that more people are married and people remain married.
02:38:30.000They have to build confidence, get your shit together.
02:38:34.000And martial arts, I think, is one of the best ways to do that.
02:38:37.000I've seen so many men that were insecure and dorky.
02:38:42.000They become fucking nerd assassins through martial arts.
02:38:45.000I think it's a great way to build confidence, and I think there's an extreme lack of adversity, like physical adversity in a lot of people's lives.
02:38:55.000And overcoming physical adversity is what leads to a lot of confidence in men.
02:38:59.000I just think that there's a lot of men that just have no idea whether they can or can't do anything difficult, and they have massive insecurity because of it.
02:39:07.000Yeah, I think he would agree with every word that you just said there, yeah.
02:39:11.000Yeah, I just think that marriage is not fixing it.
02:39:14.000Culturally enforced monogamy is not going to fix it.
02:40:53.000I mean, whether it's through martial arts or any kind of exercise or work, I take pride in getting things done.
02:41:01.000I take pride in working, especially working towards things that are important to me, whether it's working on my set, working on my stand-up, whether it's working on a podcast, whether it's working on my martial arts or my fitness or yoga or whatever.
02:42:57.000She could be like 20 and just dehydrated, you know?
02:43:00.000No, she's gray-haired and tough as shit.
02:43:02.000She drinks water before and she drinks it after, but when she's in that class, she's just tough.
02:43:07.000It's just, you know, it's never easy to do.
02:43:10.000You know, it gets a little bit easier when you get better at it, but then you just try harder and it makes it more difficult.
02:43:15.000If you're always giving 100% effort, it's always going to be hard.
02:43:18.000You know, you take some pride in the fact that now I can go two miles through the hills and, you know, and reach the point of exhaustion where before it was one or whatever.
02:43:27.000Whatever your little progress markers are, you get some satisfaction in that.
02:43:32.000But it's always difficult to get going.
02:44:06.000Like every time I've done the sensory deprivation stuff or the float stuff, every time I've gone into the place, when I just talk to the girl when she's like setting it up or something, I'll be like, oh, Joe Rogan got me into this.
02:44:15.000And they're always like, oh, Joe Rogan!
02:44:17.000Joe Rogan, he got everybody into this.
02:46:29.000I mean, I think when I'm with Jordan, the thing I realize more than anything else is he's giving them a little room to be who they are.
02:46:36.000He's taken some of the bullets, the hit pieces and all that stuff that we've talked about.
02:46:40.000He takes a little bit of that to take these positions that are not wrong, but are just...
02:46:45.000Politically incorrect or somewhat unpopular or controversial.
02:46:48.000And by taking those positions, he gives other people just a little bit of a force field to think a little bit.
02:46:54.000So for you in this, it's like you started doing something that gave you a little peace of mind, a little something that made you feel good and feel healthy and clean and mentally sound and all that.
02:47:03.000And then you started talking about it.
02:47:05.000And then, holy shit, somebody in Nebraska was like, I'm going to try that.
02:47:10.000And the next thing you know, she opened a clinic for it and is doing it.
02:48:43.000Marijuana edibles are some of the most underrated psychedelics in terms of, like, introspective thinking and self-examination.
02:48:51.000It's one of those things that just forces you to really go over every single aspect of your subconscious you're trying to hide from.
02:48:59.000You got a good strain of indica that's not going to completely destroy me.
02:49:04.000Like, my weed situation at this point, and I used to be a big pothead, my weed thing is like, end of the night, puff from my vape pen, like, watch the same Simpsons episode that I loved in 1989. Like, that's good enough for me.
02:49:17.000Like, I don't need, like, I know a lot of my comic friends, like, they want to smoke a sativa, and right, right, right.
02:49:21.000And I'm like, I've opened up enough doors in my brain, if anything, I'd tighten a couple hinges, you know what I mean?
02:49:26.000I don't need to go the other way again.
02:49:27.000For me, it's much more about relaxation.
02:50:16.000So, back in the day, like college and a little bit after college, I had Did mushrooms, I don't know, maybe 20 times in my life, something around there.
02:50:24.000And then I haven't done it in about 15 years.
02:50:25.000And then about six months ago, some mushrooms appeared, doesn't matter how.
02:50:29.000They were in my house, and I was like, all right, here's what we're going to do.
02:50:32.000I had some friends over, and David was there.
02:50:35.000And we were like, all right, we're all going to take one cap.
02:50:37.000We're not going to have a full- Oh, you fucking pussies.
02:51:31.000PlayStation 4. Yeah, I jumped connected.
02:51:35.000I jumped right into PlayStation 4, you know.
02:51:38.000Video games are good when you're with a little bit of...
02:51:41.000I would recommend once you get into the two or three caps, you put the fucking video games down and just lay down and think about your life.
02:53:03.000No, my drive is for the people that enjoy my work.
02:53:05.000When I'm doing stand-up, my drive is because I know there's a bunch of people that are getting babysitters, and they bought tickets in advance, and then, like, next Friday, Joe's coming to town, and I'm...
02:54:14.000It's like you've got to work hard to fill your end of the bargain.
02:54:17.000But if you do work hard and you do work at it and you do examine it and you do put in the hours on stage and you do go over the rewrites and listen to the recordings and do your best, it's rewarding.
02:54:29.000The reward is that I... I can say that those people have a good time.
02:54:34.000Like when I put a video up on Instagram of a bunch of people cheering after the show, my feeling, this is like we shared this time.
02:55:37.000I'm not putting up publicly, but I wanted you to see it because even if you could only watch a minute, because I wanted you to know that I'm a real comic.