The Lost Art of Knife Making is still alive and thriving in the world of knife making, thanks to the work of a good friend of mine, a knife maker and all-around awesome dude. We talk about knife making and how important it is in the modern world, and how to keep it alive in a digital world. We also talk about the importance of making things that are made by hand, and what it means to be a craftsman and the value of having your hands on something that is made by someone else. I hope you enjoy this episode and that it brings value to your life. I know it did to mine and I hope it does to yours. Enjoy the episode and remember to spread the word to your friends and family about this podcast! XOXO, John Rocha and Matt McKusick xoxo John and Matt John is a long time member of the Knife Makers Podcast team and is one of the best knife makers in the business. Matt has been making knives for over 20 years and has been involved in knife making since the early days of the knife making industry. He's been a part of the industry for the past 15 years and is a great friend of the company for the last 15 years! Matt and I have been friends since the beginning of Knife Misfits and we've always had a good time talking about knives and all things knife making. We hope this episode is a fun and it's a good listen. If you like knives, you'll love it! -John and Matt is a good dude and we hope you'll check out the Knife Making! Thank you for listening to this episode. - John is an awesome guy! Thanks for listening and supporting the podcast, I appreciate it. Xoxo, John and I appreciate you guys. Love ya! xo -P.S. -Jon Jon is a very much Tim is a fellow Knife Making Guy Mike is a really good guy and I'm looking out for Knife Making and I think he's a great guy. . BONUS: The Lost Artistry? -Jon is a little bit like that's Still Alive? :) Thanks Jon is a guy who's a little more than normal ? Tom is a friend of Jon's work is great and he's an amazing guy
00:00:15.000I really appreciate you having me down.
00:00:17.000Hey, listen, man, you've made two awesome, well, four awesome knives for me, but this one is one I use all the time that I've posted on Instagram that people freak out, as we were talking about before the podcast.
00:00:43.000But the steel is a very special kind of steel that very few people can actually manufacture on a small scale in the world.
00:00:51.000And that was made by my shopmate, Peter Swarsberg.
00:00:54.000And so the meteorite is kind of a small element in the whole matrix because most meteorite is all nickel or all iron or something like that.
00:01:07.000And this one particularly is a lot of nickel and some cobalt.
00:01:11.000And if you're gonna make an actual usable steel out of it, you can't really use a whole lot of it in the overall mixture.
00:01:20.000So, is there any meteorites that are made out of all iron?
00:03:11.000It brings so much more value to the overall experience of eating those eggs or using that knife or sitting at this fucking table right here.
00:03:19.000And it seems like a fairly recent movement in that direction, right?
00:03:23.000Like it feels like things got so digital that people are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, with the Facebook and the fucking Instagram.
00:03:54.000Well, and I think it also kind of goes back, like I was saying, as technology has advanced, we've kind of grown away from these kind of what's considered blue-collar work and craftsmanship kind of work.
00:04:30.000Even when somebody comes out of something and maybe I taught a class on how to make a knife and it looks like a fucking turd, they're going to think it looks like the most beautiful fucking knife they've ever seen in their life because their hands and their creativity, their energy, their sweat and probably some of their blood is put into creating that thing and that brings that much more value to it.
00:04:51.000Yeah, I think that's an issue with people today that have jobs that they don't feel are very fulfilling, is that there's no real thing that they're creating at the end.
00:04:57.000Whereas if you make a table, and at the end when you're putting the final sanding on and the final layer of stain, and you're looking at it like, I fucking made this.
00:05:10.000This is a real thing that I can touch that I made.
00:05:12.000Just like human beings in our current form.
00:05:17.000There's a deep connection to making things, physical things, and an appreciation for things that people have made, whether it's a rifle that somebody made, or a knife, or a hammer that someone's made.
00:05:30.000There's something about that that we just have a real appreciation for.
00:05:35.000If you can buy a knife from the store that's made in a shop, I mean, it'll work.
00:05:40.000You know, some knife that's made, some mass manufacturing process, it'll work, and it's fine.
00:05:46.000But you won't appreciate it like, I appreciate this thing.
00:05:48.000Like, every time I take this out, I'm, like, super careful with it.
00:05:51.000And, you know, and then the handle, the handle's made out of, this is a moose antler and elk antler, right?
00:05:57.000The elk at the top and the moose at the bottom.
00:05:59.000And I saw your conversation, or I listened to your conversation with Guy Ritchie, and you brought up that there was, I think actually Jamie pulled it up, and it was like, bog oak.
00:06:28.000So people are raising logs like there actually was a show I think it was on Discovery Channel or History where people were their job was raising logs out of the swamps down in Louisiana and in the south and using making use of that wood for table projects and craft projects like this so that but that's happening all over the world and some of that stuff are these ancient logs that have You know,
00:06:52.000it's the right conditions where the tree falls over, it just sits there and steeps.
00:06:58.000You know, that's a big thing for pool cue shafts, lakewood shafts.
00:07:02.000They like to take these logs out of the bottom of Lake Michigan or something.
00:08:48.000Really, the resurgence of kind of handcrafted, hand-forged knives kind of started back in the 70s.
00:08:56.000And it stemmed off from, I think it was the Custom Knife Making Association, or, yeah, Custom Knife Makers Association.
00:09:05.000And then it stemmed off to the ABS, which is the American Bladesmith Society.
00:09:09.000And that was all about the forged blade and kind of the mission to retain that knowledge and that history and the skills that go into actually taking a piece of metal and forging a blade out of it.
00:09:21.000Your blades, they were forged to shape.
00:09:26.000One approach is to just take a bar of steel, trace out a line, cut that out.
00:10:13.000Yeah, it's not just hand crafting something from a, you know, just a piece of metal that you bought and you put all the pieces together and polished it down and sanded it.
00:11:29.000And from what I understand, it was a great experience and he loved it.
00:11:33.000But anyways, she's like, you know, I think you guys would hit it off.
00:11:36.000I think, you know, maybe he could help bestow some wisdom as to where you're at and where he was at and maybe what kind of choices or options you have ahead of you.
00:11:44.000And so I met up with him at the brew pub that I was actually working at and got some beers, got some fish and chips, sitting bullshitting, and it ended up turning into a job opportunity.
00:13:45.000Oh, you had seen my email in one of our previous conversations somewhere.
00:13:49.000But I was like, this can't be like the Joe Rogan.
00:13:54.000And then as the conversation continued on, and I was like, because also your picture for the email is like this goofy picture of you doing like kissy face or something like that.
00:14:13.000But it's doing this craft and doing this work and finding and connecting with people who have an appreciation for the actual work that goes into it and appreciating that value has been, even five years ago, when I first started under my own brand,
00:14:30.000There's no way I would have thought I'd be sitting here hanging out with you guys.
00:14:33.000It's kind of been a crazy ride for me.
00:14:35.000Well, it's a crazy ride for me, too, man.
00:15:14.000He's like 20. The blades that you made that you have here today that you're bringing with you for an auction, the patterns on those things are fucking insane.
00:16:40.000And balancing doing the work with now the marketing and branding, maintaining relevance through social media, and taking the time to create content on top of all of that.
00:16:50.000I mean, especially when you're first starting to do it, the content part side of it, it's fucking time consuming.
00:16:57.000That's a crazy long waiting list, man.
00:18:48.000Thought even if you just know when you touch it like if I touch this knife I know that you made this you know when I'm when I'm cutting something with this and I'm cooking I know that you made this so maybe it's just even if it's only in my head it's still it just feels different you know and I I don't know I mean there's there's Rupert Sheldrake who's a I don't know what exactly kind of scientist he is,
00:19:12.000but he has this bizarre theory, and he's a really interesting guy to talk to, so I would never discount it.
00:20:20.000I used to do this thing where I would walk through cemeteries, just interested, like, looking at people's names and, like, when did they live and what did people have to say about them or, you know, what's left behind.
00:21:00.000I think the memory thing is if you're on a boat and someone gets murdered on that boat and you're in the boat and you're fucking freaking out.
00:21:28.000According to a theory developed by Rupert Sheldrake, British biologist, a paranormal influence by which a pattern of events or behavior can facilitate subsequent occurrences of similar patterns.
00:22:01.000So the process whereby self-organizing systems inherit a memory from previous similar systems.
00:22:07.000So what he was talking about with morphic resonance was how mice...
00:22:12.000If they learn, like say if you have a pattern, and there's like cheese at the end of this pattern, and then they go through a maze.
00:22:19.000If one mouse figures out that pattern, other mouse can figure it out quicker.
00:22:23.000And there's something, somehow or another, they learn from each other.
00:22:27.000And when chimpanzees are observed using tools, other chimpanzees on the other side of the world started mimicking that behavior without any interaction with those chimpanzees at all.
00:22:44.000Well, it's more intense than butterfly effect because it implies that there's some sort of collective information pool that they're sharing through the ether.
00:22:55.000That there's something that they're sharing through some unknown method.
00:23:20.000Someone who's a real rationalist who just wants only science, provable.
00:23:24.000The thing is it is kind of provable because there has been some tests and there's fierce opposition to this, which anything that has like some woo-woo attached to it is going to have some fierce opposition.
00:23:35.000But Rupert was a really fascinating guy.
00:27:10.000The sound of his voice and just hearing his thoughts.
00:27:13.000When you hear a really deep thinker like him, one of the things that it does is kind of gets you into that pattern of thought and you realize like, oh, I can probably kind of sort of think that way too.
00:27:23.000I just allow myself to be guided by his words and sort of try to pay attention to how he's doing this.
00:27:31.000He was an interesting guy because not just was he a deep thinker, but the influences of those people, it's very different.
00:27:41.000There's very few recordings even back then for them to listen to.
00:27:45.000This stuff was based on reading and their education and their actual life experiences.
00:27:53.000So they were very unique and original.
00:27:56.000They were really the cornerstones for a lot of these deep philosophical ideas.
00:28:00.000And so then when you hear an Alan Watts recording today, maybe someone like me or some other people that listen to that, they might share those ideas or reflect on those ideas.
00:28:42.000So it helps reduce the amount of noise that's actually coming in, so it helps protect it in that way, just kind of in general, like a normal inner earplug would work.
00:28:52.000But also, because it's reducing the amount of noise that's getting in, you can also listen at a lower volume, so you're not blowing out your ears to be able to hear whatever you're listening to, like you would through normal earbuds.
00:29:04.000Right, because it's so loud in your shop.
00:31:35.000And she hears through her body, which trips me out, but the tones that she's able to achieve, the control she has over everything, whatever kind of instrument she's playing, it's an awesome documentary.
00:34:10.000Especially after watching Concussion and seeing and reading, like, articles about the real-life people that this shit's happened to, I, like...
00:34:42.000I would support kids fighting way before I would support kids Doing football and both of them I'd be nervous about and you know, I mean there's other stuff like X Games type shit people that are into extreme sports and you know people that are into snowboarding snowboarders wipe out all the time and crack their head open Can you get a scholarship in martial arts of any kind like college just wrestling?
00:35:08.000I mean, that's like a big that's a big driver right there though, right?
00:35:11.000Wrestling that's where the money wrestling is certainly a martial art.
00:35:13.000It's probably one of the most important martial arts.
00:37:51.000But being in a metal shop, like you said, you do have to pay so much attention.
00:37:56.000You have to be focused at what you're doing because literally everything in that fucking shop wants to hurt you or kill you the second you're not paying attention.
00:38:05.000Because the second you're not paying attention, it's going to grab you.
00:38:08.000There are horror stories of people working next to machines, and they have long hair, it's caught in a motor, and it just fucking...
00:38:59.000Angus Young says that he lost a little bit, but his quote says that he never really had a problem with it because that's why he was running around on stage so much, too.
00:39:14.000First concert I ever saw on ACDC. ACDC? I wonder if people are more susceptible, just like some people are more susceptible to CTE. Yeah, I remember Rhonda Patrick was talking about certain genes that you have.
00:40:50.000This is a pattern I just came up with recently.
00:40:53.000I call it a braid mosaic, for lack of a better term.
00:40:57.000But it just looks like a braid, and it's something I've been wanting to create, and I finally figured it out.
00:41:04.000So essentially, to create pattern-welded Damascus, First off, Damascus is kind of a blanket, has become a blanket term.
00:41:13.000Traditionally and originally, it actually referred to the steel that, like the type of steel that your knife, this knife, the meteorite knife, is made from.
00:41:21.000And it eventually became a blanket term for all kinds of kind of patterned steel in general, whether it's, it curls naturally or if it's kind of forced and created the way that braid pattern was made.
00:42:30.000A piece of dough being rolled out, full of dough, rolled out.
00:42:33.000And so it's kind of the same fucking thing, but with metal.
00:42:36.000But you have to have the kind of the right kind of temperature environment.
00:42:42.000You want as little oxygen in there as possible because the oxygen creates carbon or not carbon, but iron oxide that kind of is detrimental to creating solid weld bonds.
00:42:55.000And there are different ways to achieve that.
00:42:59.000The 1080 is the black steel, the black color, and the 15 and 20 is the silver color.
00:43:05.000What's the difference in the way those steels perform?
00:43:07.000Is one of them harder or more durable?
00:43:09.000They pretty much perform almost exactly the same.
00:43:15.000In fact, chemically speaking, they're almost exactly the same, except for the 15 and 20 has a high level of nickel in it, 0.2% by weight.
00:43:27.000And so that steel is traditionally used in saw blades, especially large, big mill band saws.
00:43:34.000You know, like in Oregon, one of the oldest and continuously running wood saw mill is still there doing its thing with these giant band saw blades that are like 30 feet in circumference,
00:43:50.000and they're like foot wide, and they're just monsters.
00:44:12.000So the circular saw, those saw curves are usually probably around an eighth of an inch to a quarter of an inch thick, but it's the same kind of idea.
00:44:21.000Is that they're trimming down these giant logs so they need a big fucking saw.
00:47:03.000So heat treating, the whole process, is essentially heating up the steel, make it hard, and then you put it back into heat, but a much lower temperature to kind of toughen it up.
00:47:16.000And so you're pulling some of that hardness back.
00:47:18.000So they were hardened the same way, but they were tempered at different temperatures because...
00:47:24.000One is a hard use knife while the chef's knife is not a hard use knife.
00:47:27.000What is the difference between temper and what does that mean?
00:47:31.000So the tempering, so essentially, so I harden it.
00:47:34.000So I bring it up to 1500 degrees, which is like a dull glowing orange color.
00:47:41.000And then I dip it in a special oil that I have that's It's designed for quenching materials, not just in knife making, but all kinds of different industrial applications.
00:48:04.000So actually, depending on how the steel needs to be heat treated, you actually want to heat up the oil so that it's thinner.
00:48:13.000And it also, there's this thing that's called a vapor jacket.
00:48:17.000So if you've ever, like, been next to a wood-burning stove and you drop a little water on it and you see that bead water dance around on there, the same thing happens on the surface of the blade, except for the blade is the source of the heat, right?
00:48:30.000You put it in that oil, all that oil is dancing around on it.
00:48:34.000So when the oil is thinner, it's not as large of a jacket because when that jacket is large, so jacket encasing that steel while it's trying to cool down, it actually kind of acts as an insulator and could potentially ruin.
00:48:51.000So not only do you put it in the oil, but you want to agitate it to kind of break up that jacket.
00:48:57.000So it doesn't get a chance to just sit there and all the way around the blade.
00:49:25.000I was just going to say, you essentially have, depending on what kind of steel you're working with, you have anywhere from half a second to five seconds to get it from 1,500 degrees or sometimes higher to below 800 degrees.
00:49:43.000So this knife would be more durable, is that what it is, than this knife?
00:50:24.000I actually recently just, from time to time, it's good practice as a knife maker.
00:50:29.000To make sure that you're still doing your heat treating stuff alright, I take a knife and I just beat the shit out of it.
00:50:35.000First I chopped through some wood and then I actually took it to an antler and beat the shit out of it too.
00:50:39.000And it is amazing that if you're doing things right, you know, ten thousandths of an inch is enough to withstand impact of chopping through wood pretty well.
00:50:53.000Of course, unless you're coming into contact with a nail or super dense knots.
00:51:57.000This is much thinner than a lot of other hunting knives would be, which is interesting.
00:52:05.000With your use of this exotic metal and your methods, you're able to do that.
00:52:13.000Well, and also part of the reason that you're able to do that is because it's high carbon steel, which means it has a high volume of carbon comparatively than other kinds of tool or cutlery steel.
00:52:26.000And what's the benefit of high carbon versus less carbon?
00:52:29.000So high carbon allows you to, especially for the meteorite steel, it's a kind of crucible steel called woots.
00:52:37.000And so the patterning you see in there is actually strands of carbon or carbide material.
00:52:45.000So all the extra carbon floating around in the iron matrix of this steel...
00:52:53.000It jumps onto these bands called carbides and there are different elements and vanadium is one of the elements in this steel that draws that carbon in.
00:53:03.000So what you're seeing are thousands and thousands of all these ultra hard carbon bands floating around through the Iron Matrix.
00:54:49.000And so they were making these ingots of crucible steel and then forging them out.
00:54:54.000And they really, really, very heavily relied on these carbide bands floating through the material because, unfortunately, they didn't really have a very advanced way of quenching that steel so that not only did they have the bands,
00:55:09.000but they also had hard iron matrix as well that those bands were floating in.
00:55:14.000So they really relied on that banding.
00:55:16.000So did they just learn from trial and error of thousands of years of experimenting with different materials and different locations that they got the iron from and different things that they added to it to make steel?
00:55:30.000And that's why even watching Game of Thrones or other kind of medieval or movie set in medieval times, there were very specific makers who were the best.
00:55:41.000Who could really make this shit happen?
00:55:43.000And it's because they had a tradition passed down to them.
00:55:47.000And a lot of that stuff was very fictional, but in the real world, that was the same thing.
00:55:55.000You had very specific lineages of people who had essentially the most advanced technology and skills and techniques for creating the most highest performing weaponry essentially of the time, which was like the currency of the fucking time.
00:56:11.000Somebody went to Japan fairly recently and filmed them working with a high-level sword maker for a television show.
00:56:23.000It was somewhat famous, but it was really badass.
00:56:27.000They went to this sword maker shop, and he's doing the whole thing, hammering it all out and building the samurai sword from scratch the way it's always been.
00:56:39.000Yeah, there are a few of those documentaries on YouTube.
00:56:45.000Usually you've got to do a little bit of digging to find them.
00:56:49.000I actually just watched a few of them in the last five years.
00:58:14.000Now, in terms of, like, this one or the other one that you made me, the other hunting knife that you made me out of Damascus, which one is, like, tougher or more durable?
00:58:24.000So, they've been heat-treated to perform very, very, very similarly.
00:58:29.000You'd essentially have to destroy them to really determine which one outperform the other.
00:58:35.000So, you'd have to stick it in a bone and try to break it.
00:58:37.000Yeah, essentially use it how it's not supposed to be used.
00:58:57.000And how do you know like the right angle to approach sharpening?
00:59:02.000It's I mean there are a lot there actually a lot of great information online They're especially in big cities like Seattle LA New York Austin They're in Portland as well.
00:59:15.000They're super reputable people, not only who will offer service, but usually offer lessons as well.
00:59:21.000I suggest, like, if you can't afford it, you know, you can dig around, you can find the stuff online.
00:59:27.000But it's not the same as having, essentially having a coach next to you saying, uh-uh, or, yeah, that's great, that's perfect, that's where you want to be doing that shit.
01:01:29.000So that's what's happening along your cutting edge.
01:01:30.000And what happens is those tiny serrations where it bend over, like I was saying, or break off.
01:01:35.000But as they bend over, and it's just normal shit, that honing rod, by swiping across that honing rod, and you don't just do it willy-nilly.
01:01:44.000You've got to do it at the right angle and all this stuff.
01:01:48.000And hones those teeth back into alignment.
01:01:50.000So people mistakenly call them sharpening sticks because all of a sudden their knife is sharp as fuck afterwards.
01:01:56.000But the reality is that it's honed those teeth back into alignment so it can do its job again.
01:02:01.000Now what's the purpose of the leather strop?
01:02:04.000So that's just a gentler way, especially for things that are super, super razor sharp, which essentially have been sharpened to a really high finish, like 10,000 grit or higher.
01:02:17.000So those micro serrations are even smaller, which means they're even more delicate, which means they don't need as much force to realign them.
01:02:25.000So a honing rod or a strop So that's a human hair?
01:02:45.000And to help put that in a little bit better perspective, a sixteenth of an inch, like a normal measurement, one sixteenth of an inch is 62.5 thousandths of an inch.
01:02:58.000So that's like one, I can't even do the math right, one twentieth of a sixteenth of an inch, which is fucking teeny tiny.
01:03:31.000And there's this big debate, harder versus steel that is less hard, but will bend more and give slightly more.
01:03:40.000And then there's the broadhead that I use, which is a carbon steel broadhead from a company called G5. They make this broadhead called a Montec.
01:05:12.000So one of the things I would say after seeing that, especially that first image, is the geometry of the blades, the actual points.
01:05:21.000They lend themselves similarly to how your hunting knife is sharpened differently from your chef's knife.
01:05:27.000Like the chef's knife material is thinner, but they're also sharpened at different angles because they have different jobs they're supposed to do.
01:05:34.000The more acute that is, the more easily that will break, as well as the thinner the material that geometry is living on is more susceptible to breaking.
01:05:47.000That first image that Jamie pulled up, the geometry looked like it was pretty robust.
01:05:53.000As well as, like, it looks like it's probably at least 30 thousandths of an inch thick, which is, you know, that's about, if not more, actually.
01:06:02.000No, the original image, Jamie, we see the actual broadhead without the...
01:06:07.000Yeah, my friend Brian Stevens turned me on to these.
01:06:45.000The thing that most people are used to are a chef's knife, and they think if they did that with their chef's knife, they'd fuck it up, and 100% it pretty much would.
01:06:52.000But with the right thickness coming up to the cutting edge, as well as the actual lead cutting edge geometry, like the actual angle that it's sharpened at, you could do that shit all day long.
01:07:03.000Now, when you sharpen a blade, do you use something to hold it next to the stone so that it reaches the perfect angle, or do you do it by eye?
01:08:12.000I have almost kind of a conspiracy theory that the reality is they're designed to destroy your knife, so you have to turn around and reinvest again.
01:11:55.000It's hard to get, especially in some places.
01:11:57.000Oh my god, when you take a bite, like, even just that first bite, it's just like, it's, you've entered a whole different world, and it's like, what the fuck?
01:15:29.000Do you find that as a person who is a craftsman and an artisan that you try to have that approach with, like, other things in your life, too?
01:15:37.000Like what you were just talking about, like, making food and...
01:16:49.000And so I started getting to this point where I really had to think shit through because to me it felt like a huge waste of time and energy and materials really to go through all that process and then...
01:17:03.000There had to be a long learning curve though, right?
01:17:06.000Especially, I would imagine, the forging aspect of it.
01:18:48.000And again, like I said, you don't really need to do that because of how inexpensive material is.
01:18:53.000But if you think back even a hundred years, this high quality material is fucking expensive.
01:18:58.000You had to get the most out of it as you possibly could.
01:19:01.000And so that's why forging was such a big deal.
01:19:05.000And then as that price went down, people changed the way they manufactured just because then the time was the thing that cost the most, not the materials.
01:19:13.000And so they turned around and made it easier to manufacture.
01:19:16.000They didn't give a shit about the waste.
01:19:18.000Now, how did you learn handle geometry, like the handle and this hunting knife?
01:19:43.000Like this little thing that you've got here for people that are just listening.
01:19:46.000There's an initial smoothness in the front and then there's like this little bump and then it's thicker at the bottom and it just locks in your hand and it just feels perfect.
01:19:57.000So I was inspired to do that by a maker named Claude Beauchonville.
01:20:12.000The first time I met him was at Blade Show, which is a huge knife exposition.
01:20:16.000It's the biggest one in the world that happens down in Atlanta every year.
01:20:19.000The first weekend of June, he was my table neighbor.
01:20:23.000And I had never told him this story, but the first time I saw his knives, I was like, the blades and everything look great, but the handle looks fucking weird as shit.
01:20:36.000His has more of like a nice gentle curve around to the end instead of...
01:20:40.000Kind of how that one's kind of at a clip or an angle.
01:20:43.000And so finally, like on the third day of the show, this really great maker that I look up to came over and he was just like doting over Claude's work.
01:20:53.000And I was like, all right, there must be something.
01:22:04.000Especially antler and bone, they have this kind of, like...
01:22:09.000I don't know if you've experienced it with these...
01:22:11.000Especially cutting up the like the greasy meat but it from from my experience it does it stays grippy it doesn't become super slippery or anything the handle on my bow is actually made out of antler I had it custom made my friend John Dudley had these ones made from a bull that he killed on September 11 2001 like it's the 9-11 bull and he had these Handles made out of the antlers of this and it does the way it sits in your hand.
01:22:41.000It's like it's got an even if you're sweaty or you know there's something you know it's raining out it just has an extra grip to it.
01:22:47.000Well, and especially something like that, like, if you're skinny or breaking down an animal, like, it's important, but it's not gonna, like, it's not like one of those moments where you're relying on that grip for your life.
01:22:58.000But when you do need that for your life, like, you're trying to do, or like, you're digging in the ground, you're falling down the hillside, and you're trying to jab it and get a hold, like, that's gonna be really important.
01:23:10.000But obviously, that's a very rare thing.
01:26:54.000Yeah, a friend of mine, my friend John Rivett, shout out to Johnny Rivett, he lives in Alberta and one of his friends had an elk farm up there in Alberta and he grew elk not for the meat but for the velvet.
01:27:10.000Because that stuff that grows grows so fast and so ridiculously potent that they would take antler velvet and they would turn it into a spray that would equal the effects of human growth hormone.
01:27:26.000How could you do that across the beach?
01:27:45.000I'm too stupid to be answering your questions.
01:27:47.000But there's something about Deer Velvet that was for quite, you know, I don't even know if it worked, but it was a big thing in the supplement and fitness industry that people were getting Deer Velvet.
01:30:30.000Because the design of a moose's antlers is like, it's not as intertwined, but with deer it happens all the time because there's a little bit of flex to the bone.
01:32:22.000That, to me, makes me think that that could have very easily been like an elk found a dead elk and just started headbutting and ripped its head off and got stuck with it.
01:32:32.000They kill each other all the time, though.
01:32:39.000Dude, when you hear them fighting, like one of the first times I ever went elk hunting, we were coming over this hill and it sounded like two dudes slamming baseball bats together.
01:37:57.000Well, and what's also bonkers that we weren't expecting is that, like, unless you're driving 15 to 20 miles over the speed limit, you're going too slow.
01:38:06.000Or, like, a stoplight and stop signs are a suggestion.
01:43:25.000That's what being in Puget sounds like as well because you always got Mount Rainier.
01:43:30.000It's crazy like the road the cities were engineered so like you're coming up and down hills and like BOOM! The fucking mountain is a monster.
01:47:01.000Like, oh wow, there's a crazy trip you get out of watching kids learn.
01:47:05.000You know, there's something about, like, you learn, watching them learn.
01:47:11.000And it really sort of reinforces this idea that every human being is essentially, I mean, they're not a blank slate, but they are most certainly Subject to the influences of their environment, what they experience.
01:48:49.000And she comes from a family of teachers.
01:48:53.000Both of her parents, her sister, her great-grandmother, or sorry, her grandmother, all educators.
01:49:00.000This must be amazing for her to be a mom then.
01:49:02.000Yeah and so she's with a dude all day long like she fucking loves the shit of him but you know like you try spending fucking day in and day out with the little dude like the little the little fucking numbskulls running around and trying to learn how to interact with the world yeah it's fucking crazy but it's so cool and and with that background understanding how to interpret what's going on in his brain a little bit so to help nourish it essentially and Yeah.