The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1174

00:00:00.000 Heh.

00:00:02.000 If they don't fuck up, I don't trust them.

00:00:04.000 My father used to say, if someone doesn't say the word fuck, or if their name is an initial, don't trust them.

00:00:12.000 Yeah, that's a creepy one.

00:00:13.000 Initials are creepy.

00:00:14.000 Yeah.

00:00:15.000 But you never know.

00:00:16.000 It's not a hard, fast rule.

00:00:18.000 No, I give everyone the fair shake, but I'm looking...

00:00:20.000 Yeah, hmm.

00:00:21.000 Yeah.

00:00:22.000 If they frickin', if they're all the time, it's frickin' this and frickin'.

00:00:25.000 Or Mickey Fickey.

00:00:26.000 Yeah.

00:00:26.000 I heard that one time.

00:00:27.000 Oh, I never heard that one.

00:00:28.000 Yeah, someone said Mickey Fickey.

00:00:29.000 Said a motherfucker.

00:00:29.000 Yeah, I wasn't happy about it.

00:00:31.000 Shut the front door is one like moms like to do around their kids.

00:00:36.000 I come from a WAP South Philly family so it's like a fucking Richard Pryor You know, the Seven Fishes on Christmas Eve is like him on the Sunset Strip.

00:00:48.000 You know who surprisingly doesn't swear?

00:00:50.000 Teddy Atlas.

00:00:51.000 I know Teddy doesn't.

00:00:53.000 I've seen, you know, animated he, I don't have to tell you, he was just on the show.

00:00:57.000 He gets very animated.

00:00:57.000 Very animated, but yeah, he doesn't really.

00:00:59.000 Yeah, it's like frickin' this and frickin' that.

00:01:01.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:01:02.000 What the frick?

00:01:03.000 He says, what the frick?

00:01:04.000 It's nuts.

00:01:05.000 Yeah.

00:01:06.000 You know who also doesn't swear?

00:01:07.000 Henry Rollins.

00:01:08.000 Rollins does not.

00:01:09.000 Does not swear.

00:01:10.000 Yeah, but...

00:01:11.000 And he makes note of it.

00:01:12.000 Note that I don't swear...

00:01:14.000 I mean, I feel like that happened in the second half of his life because Black Flag records, not so much.

00:01:21.000 Yeah, I think he's trying to get...

00:01:25.000 I don't want to say more people to listen to him like trying to be more mainstream, but he's trying to eliminate the noise in what he's doing.

00:01:31.000 Sure.

00:01:32.000 He's a brilliant mind.

00:01:33.000 He is.

00:01:34.000 Yeah.

00:01:35.000 Unlike me.

00:01:36.000 I mean, you're really...

00:01:37.000 Rogan, you've hit a little snag here.

00:01:41.000 Teddy Atlas, Jordan Peterson, Shapiro, Henry Rollins, then this.

00:01:46.000 No, dude.

00:01:47.000 I love your music.

00:01:48.000 Fuck out of here.

00:01:50.000 You were saying about fuck-ups before the show.

00:01:53.000 I don't know anybody who's an artist who doesn't fuck things up.

00:01:58.000 There's something about being legitimately creative.

00:02:01.000 There has to be something wrong with you.

00:02:02.000 Well, you're wired differently.

00:02:04.000 So what people perceive as fucking up isn't to us.

00:02:11.000 So technically it's a fuck-up, but in reality to us it's just...

00:02:18.000 It's just how it works, I think.

00:02:20.000 It's just traits.

00:02:21.000 Yeah, sure.

00:02:21.000 If you were working in an office in human resources, there's no way.

00:02:25.000 I'd be gone in like three hours.

00:02:27.000 Yeah.

00:02:28.000 But before that, I'd probably put a bullet through my head if I was in a cubicle.

00:02:32.000 Just give up at that point.

00:02:34.000 Some people can do it, though.

00:02:36.000 Some people, it's not a problem.

00:02:37.000 No.

00:02:38.000 They're just wired that way.

00:02:39.000 I knew from such an early age that Now I'm not wired this way, you know what I'm saying?

00:02:46.000 Yeah, me too.

00:02:47.000 I was terrified of getting a job when I was a child.

00:02:51.000 Yeah, it's fearful, but what you've done though, man, I've told you how much of a fan I am, but I'm such a fan of how punk rock, you've built all of this outside of what you were expected to do.

00:03:10.000 This show is a fuck you, really.

00:03:13.000 It's just what it is.

00:03:14.000 You know what I mean?

00:03:14.000 This is what happens when you don't calculate.

00:03:17.000 Yeah.

00:03:18.000 When there's no...

00:03:18.000 You just do what you want to do.

00:03:20.000 Yeah.

00:03:20.000 This is what happens.

00:03:21.000 But people don't have the balls to do that.

00:03:23.000 It's a little bit balls.

00:03:25.000 It's a little bit...

00:03:25.000 Fear Factor gave me a lot of financial freedom.

00:03:27.000 Sure.

00:03:28.000 That helped too.

00:03:29.000 Sure.

00:03:30.000 News Radio?

00:03:31.000 Yeah.

00:03:31.000 News Radio did a little bit, but Fear Factor did way more.

00:03:34.000 It just gave me enough money so I go, okay, the money part I got.

00:03:37.000 Yeah.

00:03:38.000 So now let's just have some fun.

00:03:40.000 Sure.

00:03:41.000 But look what it's become.

00:03:42.000 It changed people's lives, man.

00:03:43.000 That's weird.

00:03:44.000 That's the weird part.

00:03:45.000 That wasn't anticipated.

00:03:47.000 It wasn't part of the plan.

00:03:49.000 It was just supposed to be smoking weed and having a good time.

00:03:52.000 Well, you're not aware until you're aware.

00:03:54.000 Until people say, yo, you've helped me through tough times.

00:03:59.000 People tell me about your show.

00:04:02.000 Yo, that guy gets me through tough times.

00:04:04.000 And that's...

00:04:05.000 What's more important than that?

00:04:07.000 Well, people need friends, you know, and they need community.

00:04:10.000 And one of the things that this show has shown by having all my friends on all the time is that this is a tight group of people that love each other and care about each other and want to promote that way of thinking and being.

00:04:22.000 You can do that.

00:04:23.000 You can get through life and all support each other.

00:04:25.000 This backstabby bullshit that people get involved in, that is so detrimental to you, to them, to everyone, to the sense of community that you create around each other.

00:04:36.000 A clip of yours went viral of you talking about just keep negative people the fuck away from me.

00:04:44.000 I had that around me, and it was draining my spirit.

00:04:47.000 It's one of the worst things.

00:04:49.000 But when you're living a certain way, and everything's fast, it's the same with comedy, and you're on the road, and you're grinding it out, you can't always analyze, you can't always step back and say, this is why things are fucked up, because everything's moving so fast.

00:05:05.000 And it wasn't until I took that time and said, there's cancers in my life.

00:05:10.000 They're basically emotional barnacles.

00:05:13.000 Yeah.

00:05:14.000 You know what I mean?

00:05:15.000 And once you cut the cancer out, you see how different things become.

00:05:21.000 And it's kind of...

00:05:28.000 I didn't realize it was that easy.

00:05:30.000 Yeah, you can do it.

00:05:31.000 You can do it.

00:05:32.000 But to them, too, it's a good lesson for them to be cast aside.

00:05:35.000 And for them, if they're smart or if they have some awareness or some objectivity, they're going to look at themselves and say, you know what?

00:05:42.000 I'm a fucking mess.

00:05:43.000 Yeah.

00:05:44.000 Like, I'm negative all the time and people don't want to be around me.

00:05:46.000 I was real negative when I was younger.

00:05:47.000 So was I. Yeah, it's not something that's insurmountable.

00:05:52.000 You can get over it.

00:05:52.000 Yeah, and it's whatever...

00:05:57.000 Whatever hands you've been dealt, you have to realize the reality of the situation, bro.

00:06:01.000 There's people living in mud huts and places that are smiling.

00:06:05.000 And I have the balls to be complaining about...

00:06:09.000 Your tour.

00:06:10.000 Right!

00:06:10.000 And not getting enough sleep, or I don't like to travel.

00:06:14.000 You just really have to assess that and say, this isn't the way I should be thinking or processing information.

00:06:23.000 We're blessed to do what we do, you know what I mean?

00:06:27.000 You make people laugh, bro, for a living.

00:06:28.000 I know.

00:06:29.000 There's also a balance that you can achieve between discipline and the creative people, like we were talking about, like yourself, who are just off, you know, hand tattoos, wacky, to something about, you know, people see you, they're like, what the fuck is this guy doing?

00:06:43.000 They'll follow you when you're walking through a store.

00:06:45.000 Sure.

00:06:47.000 There's a balance between that and then real disciplined people, like, you know, fucking Navy Seal type cats.

00:06:53.000 You learn from them, too.

00:06:54.000 Sure.

00:06:55.000 And you go, well, you can incorporate some of that into your life as well, and it helps balance out all the wacky creative aspects of it, and it makes you a little bit more productive, a little bit happier, a little bit...

00:07:06.000 You know, Dead Presence had a song, Discipline Makes Things Easier.

00:07:12.000 Yes.

00:07:13.000 It's a great fucking song.

00:07:14.000 It is.

00:07:14.000 It's a great song.

00:07:15.000 It is.

00:07:16.000 Because it's real.

00:07:17.000 It really does.

00:07:18.000 Discipline makes things easier.

00:07:20.000 It is real.

00:07:20.000 Organize your life.

00:07:21.000 Like, for me, when I feel most happy, of course you know because of how you live, but...

00:07:30.000 Your body feeds into how your mind works, too.

00:07:35.000 When I was talking about those horrible negative years, it was also dictated by terrible diet.

00:07:44.000 Not that I'm in great shape or anything now, but I've changed things.

00:07:47.000 And I felt it.

00:07:49.000 Up here.

00:07:50.000 You know what I mean?

00:07:51.000 That's what people don't think.

00:07:52.000 You feel it in your brain.

00:07:54.000 I feel like a different person, man.

00:07:56.000 After I spar a little bit or whatever it is, I feel different.

00:08:00.000 I get more energy where you would think logic would dictate you would get tired.

00:08:05.000 I'm like, now I'm ready to write.

00:08:07.000 Crazy, right?

00:08:08.000 You know what I mean?

00:08:09.000 It's counterintuitive.

00:08:09.000 It is.

00:08:10.000 But again, like you said, it's discipline.

00:08:15.000 My mother's making gravy and meatballs.

00:08:18.000 It's hard to say, Mom, settle down.

00:08:22.000 You can eat that once a week.

00:08:23.000 Sure.

00:08:24.000 Once a week, you just go whole hog.

00:08:26.000 Sure.

00:08:28.000 Gravy, that's such an East Coast Italian word.

00:08:30.000 That was my grandparents in New Jersey.

00:08:33.000 It was gravy.

00:08:33.000 I apologize to everyone that's not in New York, Philly, and Jersey right now.

00:08:38.000 It's barely New York.

00:08:39.000 It's not Manhattan.

00:08:41.000 Nah, they'll fight you.

00:08:42.000 They'll say, it's sauce.

00:08:43.000 Listen, man, it's fucking gravy, man.

00:08:46.000 Let's not do this.

00:08:47.000 Yeah, gravy's New Jersey.

00:08:49.000 New Jersey, like old school Italian soprano style.

00:08:52.000 Yes.

00:08:52.000 That's gravy.

00:08:54.000 Yeah.

00:08:54.000 Philly's gravy.

00:08:55.000 Yes.

00:08:55.000 Then you go south of Philly, it becomes sauce again.

00:08:57.000 Yes.

00:08:58.000 Yeah.

00:08:59.000 Yeah.

00:09:00.000 It's fucking good no matter what.

00:09:01.000 It is good.

00:09:03.000 It's weird how, like, if you go to, have you been to Italy?

00:09:06.000 Yes.

00:09:06.000 A lot of my family's still over there.

00:09:09.000 The food is fucking fantastic.

00:09:10.000 Next level.

00:09:11.000 But it's a different kind of food.

00:09:14.000 What Italian-Americans did is a totally different cuisine.

00:09:19.000 Yeah, it's interesting, right?

00:09:20.000 It is.

00:09:21.000 The meatballs, the lasagna.

00:09:22.000 Yes.

00:09:23.000 They will put some shit in front of you that you don't know what it is.

00:09:26.000 Yeah.

00:09:27.000 All right, let's have at it.

00:09:28.000 Yeah, the Italian food in Italy is lighter.

00:09:31.000 Yes.

00:09:31.000 It's a lot more fish.

00:09:34.000 And then you have the regions.

00:09:35.000 If you're north, if you're south, if you're in Sigi.

00:09:38.000 It is odd.

00:09:42.000 It was culture shock just to think of what I've been eating for my mother's food and grandparents.

00:09:48.000 You know what I mean?

00:09:49.000 It's just different.

00:09:50.000 My grandmother was fresh off the boat and she used to cook everything from scratch.

00:09:55.000 Tomato sauce from scratch.

00:09:56.000 Everything.

00:09:57.000 The pasta.

00:09:58.000 She would roll the pasta herself.

00:10:00.000 She would do everything.

00:10:01.000 She would make her own bread.

00:10:03.000 She would do everything.

00:10:04.000 Everything from scratch.

00:10:05.000 The bread was occasional because a lot of times when they lived in New Jersey, there was a store that they would go to, a bread place, that you would go and buy fresh bread basically every couple days.

00:10:17.000 Sure.

00:10:18.000 And it would go bad within hours.

00:10:20.000 Yeah.

00:10:21.000 Because it was real bread.

00:10:22.000 And without 8,000 preservatives.

00:10:24.000 Yeah.

00:10:25.000 Dude, I had a piece of bread the other day and it was sitting on the kitchen table for like a few hours.

00:10:29.000 I left, I went back.

00:10:30.000 It was still soft as fuck because it's all filled with chemicals.

00:10:33.000 Of course, man.

00:10:34.000 Everything is.

00:10:35.000 Yeah.

00:10:36.000 Everything is.

00:10:37.000 It's like when you realize that there's fluoride in our drinking water and people are just all right with that.

00:10:42.000 Yeah.

00:10:43.000 I'm not sure that that should be there.

00:10:47.000 I've read that.

00:10:48.000 I've read about Floyd and the drinking water, like the pros and cons.

00:10:51.000 The pros don't make any sense to me.

00:10:53.000 Not to me.

00:10:53.000 Like, brush your fucking teeth, bitch.

00:10:55.000 Yeah, man.

00:10:56.000 Like, use toothpaste.

00:10:57.000 Yeah.

00:10:57.000 I mean, you know, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I don't think it should be in our drinking water.

00:11:04.000 Well, it's, you know, and then you get into all the conspiracy theories.

00:11:08.000 That's when you've got to wade through all the bullshit.

00:11:09.000 Like, okay.

00:11:10.000 It was a Nazi plot to soften minds and...

00:11:14.000 Was it?

00:11:15.000 Or is it just like...

00:11:16.000 I feel like somebody's just got a lot of fluoride they're trying to sell.

00:11:18.000 And they got some sort of a deal with the government to dump it into the water.

00:11:22.000 That's probably more logical.

00:11:23.000 But the thing is, with all that conspiracy shit, you have to sift through shit because there are kernels in there.

00:11:29.000 That's the problem.

00:11:30.000 Right.

00:11:31.000 But they like that.

00:11:32.000 Yeah.

00:11:33.000 The more ridiculous...

00:11:35.000 The more ridiculous the theories, the better it is for them because it seems more ridiculous in that you're a loon.

00:11:41.000 Yeah.

00:11:43.000 Oh, you mean they're like the government.

00:11:44.000 Whoever.

00:11:45.000 Whoever's dumping the fluoride.

00:11:46.000 Yeah, whoever they is.

00:11:47.000 Shaking them bags of fluoride into the reservoir.

00:11:48.000 Remember when your grandmom used to say, they?

00:11:50.000 And you go, who's they?

00:11:51.000 Right, right, right.

00:11:51.000 They say that you're not supposed to.

00:11:53.000 I just go, who's they?

00:11:54.000 Who are they?

00:11:55.000 Who are they?

00:11:56.000 But whoever they is, whatever they're doing, the more ridiculous things seem, it nullifies some more realistic things like what they're pumping into food, into cattle, steroids in cattle.

00:12:11.000 Like for me, when we were younger, bro, white girls didn't have fat asses.

00:12:15.000 Yeah, but they learned squats.

00:12:17.000 You think that's what it is?

00:12:18.000 I don't think it has to do with cattle.

00:12:19.000 I really don't.

00:12:20.000 If you think it's squats...

00:12:21.000 There's a lot of white girls out there with flat asses to this day.

00:12:24.000 There is.

00:12:25.000 They're just lazy.

00:12:26.000 All right.

00:12:26.000 I'm going to trust you because you...

00:12:28.000 I'm telling you, man.

00:12:28.000 I believe you.

00:12:29.000 You're a gym guy.

00:12:30.000 Most of what's going on with food is not steroids.

00:12:34.000 Most of what's going on with food is antibiotics because they're getting sick from eating corn.

00:12:38.000 Okay.

00:12:38.000 If you watch...

00:12:39.000 There's a great documentary, King Corn.

00:12:42.000 Okay.

00:12:42.000 And it documents how a lot of cows have huge issues digesting all that corn.

00:12:48.000 It's not a natural thing for them.

00:12:49.000 They're supposed to eat grass.

00:12:50.000 Sure, sure, sure.

00:12:51.000 It fattens them the fuck up and makes them quite tasty.

00:12:53.000 Sure.

00:12:54.000 But it's really not what they're supposed to be eating.

00:12:56.000 That's interesting.

00:12:57.000 Yeah.

00:12:57.000 I mean, I guess I always start...

00:13:00.000 Chemically speaking, that's what was being pumped into everything.

00:13:05.000 Nah, because it's expensive.

00:13:06.000 They don't need to do it either.

00:13:07.000 In Mexico, they still do it.

00:13:09.000 That's how Canelo got popped.

00:13:11.000 Allegedly.

00:13:12.000 On an air quote, allegedly.

00:13:15.000 That's how he got clembuterol in the system.

00:13:17.000 If anyone thinks clembuterol came from a steak, I got a fucking bridge to sell you.

00:13:20.000 But you can get it from a steak, unfortunately.

00:13:22.000 Oh, yeah.

00:13:22.000 No, there's fighters that say, oh, no, I train in Mexico.

00:13:25.000 Someone recently said, I don't see his name, a fighter said, yeah, I eat it and it's got clen in it.

00:13:31.000 And they're like, then why didn't you get popped?

00:13:33.000 He's like, because I don't inject it.

00:13:35.000 That was his line, you know?

00:13:37.000 Yeah.

00:13:37.000 Well...

00:13:38.000 Without a doubt, there's some shenanigans going on in all combat sports and all professional sports.

00:13:44.000 You get a little edge.

00:13:45.000 That's just the money involved.

00:13:47.000 Of course.

00:13:48.000 Being able to...

00:13:49.000 Yeah, and Teddy loses his mind with that.

00:13:51.000 You know what I mean?

00:13:52.000 Rightly so.

00:13:53.000 When someone's that passionate about anything, I mean, the guy's just like, Jesus, man.

00:13:59.000 Yeah, he's a treasure.

00:14:00.000 He is.

00:14:01.000 He's an American treasure.

00:14:02.000 Yeah, he is.

00:14:03.000 He was great, man.

00:14:04.000 Amazing.

00:14:04.000 His story's about his dad.

00:14:07.000 Did you hear it?

00:14:08.000 Did you hear the podcast?

00:14:08.000 I watched half of it, but I read his book.

00:14:11.000 And, you know, Teddy was a goon, man.

00:14:15.000 You know what I mean?

00:14:16.000 Well, that's where he got that slice on the side of his face.

00:14:18.000 Yeah, his face was hanging off.

00:14:19.000 Yeah, it's crazy.

00:14:21.000 Yeah.

00:14:22.000 Yeah, well, the Jordan Peterson, I mean, I'm in awe of that guy.

00:14:27.000 Yeah, he's a really fascinating gentleman.

00:14:30.000 He is.

00:14:30.000 He is, and just scary smart.

00:14:33.000 Yeah.

00:14:34.000 You know, I would just crumble trying to have a conversation with the guy.

00:14:39.000 You wouldn't, though.

00:14:41.000 You would catch up.

00:14:42.000 That's what happens when you're around...

00:14:43.000 Probably a couple days later, my friend.

00:14:45.000 But the thing about people like that is, like, if you are around a certain caliber of thinker, then your vibration sort of matches their vibration.

00:14:54.000 When you're around people that are way smarter than you, you realize, like, oh, there's some shortcuts to thinking that I'm taking, and then there's some pitfalls in the way I analyze things, and these people don't have those things, and then my vocabulary is stunted.

00:15:07.000 Maybe I should increase my vocabulary.

00:15:09.000 Maybe I should start reading more, reading the things, and...

00:15:13.000 With most people, it's the same thing as with fitness.

00:15:16.000 It's the amount of how much time you put in for how long.

00:15:18.000 And that's the same thing with your intellect.

00:15:20.000 It's the same thing with your emotional stability.

00:15:23.000 It's how much energy and effort and focus have you put into it and for how long.

00:15:27.000 Yeah, of course.

00:15:28.000 But like you said, though, to be around someone like him...

00:15:33.000 You're naturally going to fall into a line of thinking where, wow, this guy's got a lot of shit.

00:15:40.000 His understanding, his calmness, man.

00:15:45.000 I can't see that guy being rattled.

00:15:48.000 I've watched debates and he's so confident in what he believes.

00:15:55.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:15:56.000 He's thought things through.

00:15:57.000 He's not a silly person.

00:15:59.000 I think I am, so that's the problem there.

00:16:01.000 Yeah, I am too.

00:16:02.000 Yeah, I'm a nitwit.

00:16:03.000 So watching him, it's humbling to watch someone like him that's got it together and has that level of understanding because I spend a lot of my life trying to get to that level of understanding.

00:16:18.000 So to watch someone that's there, it's just humbling.

00:16:26.000 I'm just curious where he's gonna go because him being known is relatively new.

00:16:33.000 This isn't a guy who's been a couple years, right?

00:16:37.000 Well, he's what you would call a public superstar intellectual now.

00:16:41.000 That's a new thing.

00:16:42.000 It is.

00:16:44.000 It really hasn't existed over the last decade or so.

00:16:47.000 No.

00:16:47.000 It hasn't been.

00:16:48.000 And now they're starting.

00:16:49.000 And I think because of YouTube and podcasts and things along those lines, these guys are getting super popular.

00:16:54.000 I mean, he's selling out places where fucking Iron Maiden plays.

00:16:57.000 Absolutely.

00:16:58.000 I mean, he's...

00:16:58.000 Absolutely.

00:16:59.000 It's crazy.

00:16:59.000 And he talks about philosophy and life.

00:17:02.000 Yeah.

00:17:02.000 And if you told me that a place where Maiden would sell out, someone would go talk to a modern day philosopher.

00:17:09.000 Yeah.

00:17:09.000 I wouldn't believe that.

00:17:10.000 You know what I mean?

00:17:11.000 Because it's idiocracy now.

00:17:13.000 You know, he only eats meat.

00:17:14.000 That's all he eats.

00:17:15.000 No.

00:17:16.000 Yeah, he's on this carnivore diet.

00:17:17.000 Really?

00:17:18.000 No vegetables at all.

00:17:19.000 Wow.

00:17:19.000 Nothing.

00:17:20.000 Salt and meat and water.

00:17:21.000 Wow.

00:17:22.000 Yeah, he's so wacky with it.

00:17:24.000 He told me that he had like a glass of cider and he couldn't sleep for 24 days.

00:17:29.000 Like, he's...

00:17:31.000 He's not okay.

00:17:33.000 He's eccentric in a heavy way.

00:17:36.000 He's a heavy guy.

00:17:38.000 Yeah.

00:17:39.000 It's a burden.

00:17:41.000 Being that guy is a burden.

00:17:43.000 And I don't mean that in a negative or derogatory way.

00:17:46.000 I mean, to be that smart and that- Well, don't you feel historically that they're the people who are the most sad and broken and- Because they know too much.

00:17:56.000 There's nothing worse than knowing shit.

00:17:58.000 The dumbest people I know are happy as a fucking clam, man.

00:18:04.000 Simple people.

00:18:05.000 Sure.

00:18:06.000 And it's obviously his level of intellect is next level.

00:18:11.000 But even being a bright guy or just being a reader or reading Kafka and Salinger or whoever and just becoming aware of certain things, you realize Certain times realizations aren't always the greatest things.

00:18:28.000 I used to say that to kids when I was coaching them, when I was coaching martial artists.

00:18:33.000 I would say, you're scared because you're smart.

00:18:36.000 You see these people around you that aren't scared?

00:18:38.000 They're stupid.

00:18:39.000 Of course.

00:18:39.000 They don't understand the possibilities.

00:18:41.000 You're aware of the dangers and all the variables.

00:18:44.000 You've got to put that aside and just concentrate on your technique and your task at hand.

00:18:48.000 But the reason why you're scared is because you're smart.

00:18:52.000 My life exists around fear.

00:18:55.000 It's not good.

00:18:57.000 It's not healthy.

00:18:58.000 I'm not healthy mentally because of it.

00:19:00.000 And I don't know how to shake that.

00:19:02.000 But what kind of fear?

00:19:04.000 My father died when I was 10. My mom's my best friend.

00:19:10.000 And she's 72 now.

00:19:12.000 So every day is worried about her.

00:19:15.000 Yeah.

00:19:17.000 In every way.

00:19:18.000 It's not even driven by anything that's rational.

00:19:21.000 It's like she's sick.

00:19:22.000 She's the best.

00:19:23.000 You know what I mean?

00:19:24.000 She's 72, listens to Jay-Z and wears Jordans.

00:19:26.000 Does she?

00:19:27.000 Yeah.

00:19:28.000 She's the best.

00:19:30.000 Does she sing along?

00:19:31.000 Of course.

00:19:33.000 I gotta get a video of this.

00:19:34.000 Yeah, no problem.

00:19:36.000 But it's fear of not having her.

00:19:40.000 Fear of the unknown.

00:19:43.000 Really, I fear the unknown.

00:19:44.000 I fear what if this all ends?

00:19:48.000 My adult life has been what I do, which is music.

00:19:52.000 Yours has been too.

00:19:53.000 Bro, I don't know how to do anything.

00:19:55.000 I don't know how to fix a fucking car.

00:19:57.000 I can't even be a mechanic.

00:19:59.000 I don't know how to...

00:20:01.000 I literally don't know how to do anything, bro.

00:20:03.000 But that fear is for mechanics, too, because they're like, fuck, what if there's no more cars?

00:20:07.000 What if these electric cars come along?

00:20:08.000 I don't know how to work a computer.

00:20:10.000 Everything's going to be computer controlled.

00:20:11.000 I mean, people's business...

00:20:13.000 Think about the poor bastard that opened up Blockbuster.

00:20:15.000 He's like, we got this.

00:20:17.000 We got it a lot.

00:20:18.000 We got this forever.

00:20:19.000 Right.

00:20:19.000 He's just spending money like it's growing.

00:20:20.000 Then one day, they're like, oh, we got this new thing.

00:20:23.000 It's called Apple TV. People are like, fuck Apple TV. Where's that going to go?

00:20:28.000 Michael Blockbuster is not living in a box somewhere.

00:20:31.000 Probably.

00:20:32.000 Yeah.

00:20:33.000 Well, he probably sold.

00:20:34.000 He'd be smart.

00:20:34.000 He probably saw the writing on the wall.

00:20:36.000 Yeah.

00:20:36.000 But, I mean, there's a lot of things that just go away, and people find a way to make do.

00:20:41.000 You get through.

00:20:41.000 Whatever made you a successful rapper, you could be successful at anything.

00:20:45.000 I don't know that I want that.

00:20:48.000 Well, you don't have to, luckily.

00:20:50.000 I don't want to be a successful mechanic.

00:20:53.000 I know.

00:20:54.000 I don't want to be either.

00:20:55.000 I don't want...

00:20:56.000 The fear of not...

00:20:58.000 Being able to continue the way I continue, I know, again, from being a fan, you do what you want, essentially.

00:21:06.000 Of course, work is work.

00:21:08.000 And even though we love it, it's still work.

00:21:10.000 And I think we both have people in our lives that don't get that.

00:21:14.000 When we talk when you were in Philly, people hit you up the day of the show.

00:21:18.000 Can you get me two passes back?

00:21:20.000 Like, it's a fucking party.

00:21:22.000 It's your job, man.

00:21:23.000 It's how you, you know what I mean, put food on the table.

00:21:27.000 And I think there's a disconnect there with people that don't live in that world.

00:21:32.000 That they think everything we do is a party.

00:21:37.000 Sorry, it goes back to discipline, what we were talking about earlier.

00:21:40.000 That you gotta love it, but you also have to have the discipline to get the work done.

00:21:43.000 Of course.

00:21:44.000 Of course.

00:21:45.000 But I have a problem with...

00:21:48.000 People that don't understand that, that there is discipline involved.

00:21:52.000 They think that there's not, that we got lucky.

00:21:55.000 We didn't.

00:21:56.000 Well, we did and we didn't.

00:21:59.000 We did get lucky.

00:22:00.000 We created our own luck, though.

00:22:03.000 There's a little bit of that for sure.

00:22:05.000 We're lucky we live in America.

00:22:06.000 We're lucky we weren't born in a shack in Ethiopia.

00:22:10.000 There's luck, but then there's also you have to put in the work.

00:22:14.000 And you have to figure it out.

00:22:16.000 It's a puzzle.

00:22:17.000 It's this open-ended puzzle.

00:22:18.000 You make it.

00:22:20.000 You turn it into something.

00:22:21.000 But you did it.

00:22:22.000 You did it.

00:22:23.000 You started, you got your shot, and you took it and had the balls to run with that shot.

00:22:28.000 Some people fumble the ball.

00:22:30.000 There's a lot of fumblers out there.

00:22:32.000 But I fumbled a bunch too.

00:22:33.000 You just get back up and figure out why you fumbled.

00:22:35.000 I fumbled, but I knew that I had to get back up.

00:22:38.000 These people fumble the ball and then go into woe is me.

00:22:42.000 Into the woe is me.

00:22:43.000 Can't catch a break.

00:22:44.000 The universe is out to get me.

00:22:45.000 I can't catch a break.

00:22:47.000 This doesn't...

00:22:48.000 And that's all...

00:22:49.000 I can't say all, but a lot of it is self-inflicted.

00:22:52.000 Yeah, it is.

00:22:53.000 Well, instead of looking at it that way, what they should look at it, okay, now I know how not to do it.

00:22:57.000 I learned.

00:22:58.000 Now this is going to make me better.

00:22:59.000 You have to learn.

00:23:00.000 You have to learn from everything that happens.

00:23:05.000 My father would say it's not a mistake if you learn from it.

00:23:07.000 Yeah.

00:23:08.000 You have to be able to, look, it's adapt or die, like we're Blockbuster, right?

00:23:14.000 So adapt or die, everything's changing with us.

00:23:17.000 You know what I mean?

00:23:18.000 This podcast is bigger than shows on terrestrial radio.

00:23:22.000 If you told me that back when I was listening to Stern, I'd be like, what?

00:23:26.000 What are you even talking about?

00:23:28.000 What is a podcast?

00:23:30.000 How big could that be?

00:23:31.000 And you're bigger than radio personnel.

00:23:33.000 Well, I thought that when I did it, too.

00:23:35.000 When I first started doing it, I never thought it was going to be a thing.

00:23:38.000 I thought it was just a goof.

00:23:39.000 I was doing it for fun.

00:23:40.000 Right.

00:23:41.000 Like I would respond to someone on Twitter.

00:23:43.000 Like, just fuck it.

00:23:44.000 Just have some fun.

00:23:45.000 Yeah.

00:23:46.000 But you've changed culture.

00:23:48.000 You've shifted culture in how people communicate with this show.

00:23:52.000 I mean, you should be very proud of that, man, if you're not already.

00:23:55.000 I don't think about it.

00:23:56.000 I think if you think about it, you'll trip over your own feet.

00:23:59.000 I don't think about it.

00:24:00.000 Someone can give me the best compliment ever and I'm like, I'm a piece of garbage.

00:24:04.000 You're better off that way.

00:24:05.000 Just keep pressing forward.

00:24:08.000 Joe, we don't have a problem there.

00:24:09.000 Well, like you were saying about your fear of it all going away, I think that fear is what makes you show up at the studio ten minutes early.

00:24:16.000 That fear is what makes you get out that notebook and start writing.

00:24:19.000 Yeah.

00:24:19.000 That fear is what makes you sit alone thinking about how you're going to structure this or write your next this.

00:24:26.000 Yeah.

00:24:27.000 It's all important.

00:24:28.000 People think that, like...

00:24:30.000 Like a guy like you who's a successful rapper or a comedian that's successful that you just got no worries anymore.

00:24:37.000 That's bullshit.

00:24:37.000 I have more worries now than I've ever had in my life.

00:24:39.000 I have way more worries than when I had nothing in my pocket in high school when I was rapping on street corners.

00:24:44.000 I think about it all the time.

00:24:47.000 And I look at the worries I had then and they're laughable.

00:24:51.000 I crack up at the shit that used to bother me.

00:24:55.000 You know what's interesting?

00:24:55.000 Could you imagine going back to the first day, starting over from scratch, knowing what you know now, how much better you would be, right?

00:25:02.000 Oh, I can't even imagine, man.

00:25:04.000 But think of that in the future as of now.

00:25:08.000 That's heavy.

00:25:09.000 Yeah.

00:25:09.000 That's heavy.

00:25:10.000 You know, if you look back on yourself, like if you're a 60-year-old man looking back at yourself, you're like, Vinny, you had the world by the balls.

00:25:16.000 Balls, of course.

00:25:18.000 The problem is...

00:25:21.000 I have a problem with living in the moment.

00:25:23.000 I'm always thinking about the ramifications of that moment while the moment is happening.

00:25:29.000 And it's...

00:25:36.000 Yeah, I know.

00:25:53.000 And it eats at me, you know?

00:25:55.000 Yeah, but I think that that's one of the reasons why your lyrics are so good.

00:25:58.000 It's like a person has that sort of...

00:26:01.000 The overanalyzing aspect of you is also what makes you go over all these details and find better hooks and find a better way to phrase things.

00:26:13.000 And this is like, you can't be complacent.

00:26:16.000 You just can't.

00:26:17.000 I just wish it could just only exist in that part of my life.

00:26:20.000 I don't think it works, man.

00:26:21.000 Everybody that I talk to that's successful is the same way.

00:26:24.000 They're all a mess.

00:26:25.000 Yeah.

00:26:26.000 What are we going to do about that, man?

00:26:27.000 How do we fix that?

00:26:28.000 There's nothing you can do.

00:26:30.000 You just got to not give a fuck and keep pressing forward and know that this is just part of who you are.

00:26:35.000 I mean, if we go back historically, everyone's a loon that was brilliant.

00:26:38.000 Like, look at Lennon.

00:26:40.000 You know, look at all these...

00:26:41.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:26:42.000 They're all crazy.

00:26:42.000 Every comic that's ever lived has been crazy as fuck.

00:26:45.000 I think Stanhope's one of the most brilliant minds ever.

00:26:48.000 Bat-shit crazy, you know?

00:26:49.000 Oh, yeah.

00:26:50.000 He's a good buddy of mine.

00:26:50.000 Yeah, I know he is.

00:26:52.000 You know, you look at...

00:26:54.000 You know, whether it's Bill Hicks, whether it's Louie, whoever, you know what I mean?

00:26:58.000 Yeah.

00:26:59.000 I mean, Sam was the most troubled person in the world.

00:27:01.000 Well, that's my defense of Roseanne.

00:27:02.000 You know, all these people are coming after Roseanne.

00:27:04.000 I'm like, you don't understand.

00:27:05.000 She's bad shit.

00:27:06.000 She's not just bad shit.

00:27:07.000 She got in a car accident.

00:27:09.000 She has severe brain damage.

00:27:11.000 She's on all sorts of medications.

00:27:13.000 She has multiple personality disorder.

00:27:15.000 She's drinking.

00:27:15.000 She's on Ambien.

00:27:17.000 And she's seven years old.

00:27:18.000 What the fuck do you want?

00:27:20.000 Right.

00:27:20.000 What do you want from this lady?

00:27:22.000 You spoke that way and so did Norm.

00:27:25.000 Norm talked about Louis and Roseanne the same way.

00:27:29.000 You're like, yo man, she's batshit crazy, first of all.

00:27:33.000 If you're going to her for political discourse, you might want to reevaluate your life.

00:27:41.000 The problem's on you.

00:27:43.000 Yeah, that's your fault.

00:27:44.000 It's not her, it's you.

00:27:46.000 Yeah, and that doesn't mean either one of us agree with exactly what she wrote.

00:27:50.000 It's just how she got there.

00:27:52.000 But that's also why she's so funny.

00:27:55.000 You know, if you go back and watch Roseanne in the early days...

00:27:58.000 Bro, that show was fucking hell.

00:27:59.000 It was a great show.

00:28:01.000 And her stand-up, even before that, was fantastic.

00:28:04.000 I put her in the top 20 of all time stand-ups.

00:28:07.000 She was brilliant.

00:28:08.000 She was brilliant.

00:28:09.000 She was also a monster, man.

00:28:10.000 There was nobody like her before.

00:28:12.000 She was just this brash, I don't give a fuck.

00:28:16.000 She was like a man.

00:28:17.000 Yeah, man.

00:28:18.000 She'd kill like a world-class stand-up.

00:28:22.000 Sure.

00:28:22.000 I mean, I remember when that show came on, just seeing that house.

00:28:27.000 I had never seen a house like that on television before.

00:28:30.000 You know what I mean?

00:28:31.000 Closer to what we knew than what I had ever seen.

00:28:35.000 My house didn't look like the Cosby's.

00:28:37.000 You know what I mean?

00:28:38.000 Maybe Archie Bunker was a little bit closer.

00:28:42.000 But when people are batshit crazy, And someone reacts to that with, not confusion, with contempt.

00:28:52.000 I'm like, you understand they're batshit crazy.

00:28:54.000 And it's part of why they got to where they're at.

00:28:58.000 Don't act surprised now that someone said something loony.

00:29:02.000 This many years after, you know what I mean?

00:29:05.000 It just seems strange to me that now you're blown away.

00:29:08.000 She's been saying batshit crazy shit for a long time.

00:29:11.000 I think it's also part of this new culture that we have in where people just, they find a target and they attack.

00:29:18.000 Of course.

00:29:19.000 It's like, if you have, if there's any sort of weakness, like if you have chickens and one chicken gets sick, that's what that pecking order thing is.

00:29:29.000 Sure.

00:29:29.000 One chicken doesn't feel good, the other chicken just...

00:29:33.000 They don't, like, make moral judgments on this chicken.

00:29:36.000 They just find a target.

00:29:37.000 There's something wrong with that chicken, so they start fucking it up.

00:29:40.000 And it happens with dogs.

00:29:42.000 It's an animal thing.

00:29:44.000 It is.

00:29:45.000 And human beings, we have to, if we're going to be real...

00:29:49.000 If we're going to be compassionate, we're really going to be compassionate, if we're really going to try to engineer a better culture and a better community, we've got to stop doing that.

00:29:59.000 I agree.

00:30:00.000 We've got to just stop attacking people.

00:30:03.000 I talked to her on the phone, just me and her.

00:30:06.000 She did not know that lady was black.

00:30:09.000 I believe she didn't know that.

00:30:10.000 She goes, she looks Jewish.

00:30:12.000 She looks like me.

00:30:13.000 That's what she said.

00:30:14.000 I believe you.

00:30:15.000 I believe her too.

00:30:16.000 I think she was just cracking a joke, fucked up on Ambien, been drinking and smoking weed all night.

00:30:21.000 But no one cares what her intent was.

00:30:24.000 All they care is, I got a green light.

00:30:26.000 That's a target.

00:30:27.000 We're going to go in.

00:30:28.000 Well, here's my issue with the modern left.

00:30:35.000 They talk compassion, but they pounce.

00:30:38.000 I feel like a man with no country now.

00:30:41.000 Me too.

00:30:43.000 The modern left isn't something that I gravitate towards, and neither is the right.

00:30:48.000 And when I was growing up and listening to Public Enemy, that left of...

00:30:56.000 It changed...

00:30:59.000 It changed and I didn't.

00:31:02.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:31:03.000 And you have these people...

00:31:05.000 I don't know where I stand anymore, man.

00:31:10.000 Well, I think there's rational left-leaning people that are against discrimination and for welfare and for food.

00:31:19.000 Look, I was on welfare when I was a kid.

00:31:21.000 If people say I shouldn't be on welfare, well, what the fuck, man?

00:31:24.000 Right.

00:31:24.000 My parents were on welfare.

00:31:26.000 No, I came from a poor family.

00:31:27.000 We had food stamps, and eventually they did better and we got off of it.

00:31:31.000 Sure.

00:31:32.000 But if you want to tell me that that doesn't help, that fed me.

00:31:34.000 Absolutely.

00:31:35.000 So how could I ever go against that when that was a part of my childhood?

00:31:39.000 Absolutely.

00:31:39.000 All these things that people want to associate with being left or right, I think there's just a gigantic problem with people being tribal.

00:31:50.000 Absolutely.

00:31:50.000 That's what it is.

00:31:51.000 It's tribalism at its highest degree, which since I've been alive, I haven't seen.

00:31:58.000 Never seen it like this before.

00:31:59.000 I think we know why, but...

00:32:01.000 Well, it's facilitated not just by Trump, but it's also by the ability to communicate instantaneously.

00:32:06.000 Of course.

00:32:07.000 Without any consideration.

00:32:09.000 You could just tweet something or make a YouTube video about something instantaneously.

00:32:12.000 Sure.

00:32:13.000 Roseanne's ability to tweet that...

00:32:15.000 Yeah.

00:32:16.000 That quickly with the phone is why...

00:32:18.000 Sunker's show costs millions of dollars.

00:32:21.000 Yeah, people lost their jobs.

00:32:23.000 ABC, you know, it's like...

00:32:24.000 Yeah, now they're going to do the Connors.

00:32:25.000 Guess what?

00:32:26.000 That show's going to fucking sink like the Titanic.

00:32:28.000 Of course, it's going to last...

00:32:29.000 No Roseanne?

00:32:29.000 Get the fuck out of here.

00:32:30.000 Three episodes, Max.

00:32:31.000 It's Roseanne without Roseanne.

00:32:33.000 Right.

00:32:33.000 Three episodes will last.

00:32:35.000 That's like flavor-free Diet Coke.

00:32:38.000 Tastes like water.

00:32:39.000 Just have water, motherfucker.

00:32:44.000 It's Diet Coke, but without the flavor.

00:32:46.000 It's true.

00:32:47.000 Wait, what?

00:32:47.000 It's true.

00:32:50.000 It's the hypersensitivity and it's like the ability for anyone, right or wrong, to be able to say something right then.

00:32:57.000 Right.

00:32:58.000 Where you would have...

00:32:59.000 You know, if you're doing Fear Factor and Rolling Stone interviews you, there's a thought process there.

00:33:06.000 And there's editing, and you're sitting there, and you're talking with a journalist.

00:33:11.000 All of that's gone, man.

00:33:12.000 It's like it.

00:33:14.000 That's what it's come down to.

00:33:17.000 You know, all three of us have phones in our pockets.

00:33:19.000 We can say something crazy right now if we stubbed our toe.

00:33:23.000 Right.

00:33:23.000 Right, it's not...

00:33:24.000 Fuck this!

00:33:25.000 And all of a sudden, you're done.

00:33:27.000 You're sunk.

00:33:27.000 Well, there's good in that, because the tyranny of these gigantic organizations, like if they were tyrannical, if they did have an agenda, if they were trying to smear you, you were fucked.

00:33:36.000 You had no recourse.

00:33:37.000 Right.

00:33:37.000 And they did that to many people, I'm sure.

00:33:39.000 There's unscrupulous journalists.

00:33:41.000 Sure.

00:33:41.000 But also, journalistic integrity takes a backseat, too, because now they have to get clicks.

00:33:46.000 Like, these people are...

00:33:47.000 Real journalists are fighting for their lives.

00:33:50.000 Absolutely.

00:33:50.000 Because these publications are going under...

00:33:52.000 Well, real journalism is almost dead.

00:33:55.000 It's not totally dead.

00:33:56.000 It's hurting.

00:33:57.000 It's bad.

00:33:57.000 It's hurting.

00:33:58.000 It's got emphysema.

00:34:00.000 Like the Alex Jones thing, right?

00:34:02.000 Whether I agree with shit he says or not, corporations shut him down.

00:34:06.000 And to me, that's scary.

00:34:08.000 That the corporations can decide what we are able to do.

00:34:15.000 Yeah.

00:34:16.000 Really.

00:34:17.000 Well, I was having a good conversation about this last night with some friends, and they were talking about whether or not things like YouTube or Twitter or Instagram should be regulated like utilities.

00:34:27.000 Okay.

00:34:27.000 Where anybody can use it.

00:34:29.000 Okay.

00:34:29.000 You know, like, you have the right to get the power.

00:34:31.000 Like, if you have a house, you have the right to pay your money, you get your power turned on.

00:34:37.000 It's a utility.

00:34:38.000 Yes.

00:34:38.000 Maybe a channel like that, whether it's YouTube or whether it's Twitter, maybe a channel should be treated like a utility.

00:34:47.000 But then the question is, like, what is it exactly that is good enough to get you kicked off?

00:34:53.000 Because I've seen some horrible shit that people have read or written, rather, on Twitter, and they're still on.

00:35:00.000 I've seen shit.

00:35:01.000 Whatever he's being—whatever, you know, is why he was brought down— I've seen people say much worse.

00:35:09.000 The big thing was the Sandy Hook.

00:35:10.000 And it was that the Sandy Hook thing was he said that he thought that it was fake.

00:35:16.000 He's since disavowed that.

00:35:18.000 But they don't care if you disavow things.

00:35:20.000 It's like they have this thing on you now.

00:35:22.000 You said that the kids didn't die.

00:35:24.000 They definitely did.

00:35:25.000 Let's get rid of you.

00:35:26.000 But are you saying that people aren't allowed to make mistakes?

00:35:30.000 Are you saying that people aren't allowed to evolve their thinking?

00:35:33.000 Are you saying that people aren't allowed to say things that are wrong?

00:35:36.000 Because a lot of people say things that are wrong.

00:35:38.000 But is it only things that are wrong about children?

00:35:41.000 Where's the line?

00:35:42.000 I don't know where lines go.

00:35:43.000 And I don't know who's the one drawing them.

00:35:46.000 Well, it's these people that either are the CEOs or the stockholders or, you know, the CFOs, whoever it is that is in the meeting that's dictating these standards, they're deciding.

00:35:57.000 And these are gigantic corporations that, we were just talking about this, I don't think they ever anticipated this.

00:36:04.000 I think when they made Twitter, they thought it would be, like Jamie was saying, it was a fun way to tell your friends, you know, Vinnie Paz and Joe Rogan are going to the movies.

00:36:12.000 Sure.

00:36:12.000 And that's what you would do.

00:36:14.000 That's what Twitter was.

00:36:15.000 It was just like, I'm eating pizza at the mall.

00:36:17.000 It wasn't anything crazy.

00:36:19.000 Right.

00:36:19.000 And then people started using it as a platform for...

00:36:22.000 I don't know why.

00:36:23.000 Well, Sam Harris has been tweeting to Jack.

00:36:26.000 He's been trying to get Jack to ban Trump.

00:36:28.000 He's like, look, he's clearly violating your standards of practice.

00:36:33.000 Wow, that's great.

00:36:34.000 He's clearly doing that.

00:36:35.000 And he's like, Jack just won't respond to him anymore.

00:36:37.000 Wow.

00:36:39.000 Jack's going radio silent.

00:36:41.000 Yeah, he's like, fuck this.

00:36:43.000 I don't need to deal with this in my life.

00:36:45.000 I mean, you don't want to do that right now.

00:36:47.000 Maybe when he gets impeached, then you ban him.

00:36:49.000 Yo, if you read that guy's Twitter, the fact that he's the leader of the free world is batshit crazy.

00:36:58.000 He calls people losers.

00:36:59.000 Yes.

00:37:00.000 Leader of the free world, calls people losers.

00:37:02.000 He's threatening nuclear war.

00:37:03.000 I love, my favorite is very sad with the exclamation point.

00:37:07.000 Yes.

00:37:08.000 All caps.

00:37:09.000 Yes, that's my favorite thing.

00:37:13.000 If we get through this without getting blown up, we're going to look back and laugh at the Trump days.

00:37:17.000 They're going to be fun.

00:37:19.000 I don't know how long we're into his presidency, but when I walk by the TV and hear someone say President Trump, I still have a little chuckle.

00:37:28.000 You know, it might not be a hearty laugh, it might not be a belly laugh, but I still crack up.

00:37:33.000 Well, it's been two years.

00:37:34.000 This is how I know.

00:37:36.000 I know by Netflix specials.

00:37:38.000 Because my last Netflix special was exactly two years ago.

00:37:41.000 And during that special, I was like, we are that close to President Trump.

00:37:45.000 And people are laughing.

00:37:46.000 I was laughing.

00:37:48.000 I was like, I went to bed or whatever, knowing that there was zero chance.

00:37:54.000 Yeah.

00:37:54.000 You know, and I didn't think Hillary was a great candidate, but I thought a fucking, I thought a cardboard box would beat him.

00:38:01.000 Yeah, I thought people would think of him as more of a liability than anything.

00:38:05.000 But the thing is, these people in middle America just don't feel represented.

00:38:08.000 They feel disrespected and not represented.

00:38:11.000 And he figured that out and tapped into that.

00:38:14.000 He did.

00:38:14.000 Well, I saw Jordan Peterson say something in this interview, and it made me think, because obviously we're joking right now, and the joke about him is how dumb he is.

00:38:24.000 And Jordan Peterson said, the reason he's in the biggest mistake Americans have made...

00:38:30.000 Is underestimating him and thinking he's dumb.

00:38:32.000 Yeah.

00:38:33.000 You know what I mean?

00:38:34.000 He's not dumb.

00:38:35.000 He just does dumb shit.

00:38:37.000 Yes.

00:38:37.000 And he's definitely an egomaniac.

00:38:39.000 I think he has narcissistic personality disorder.

00:38:42.000 But that doesn't mean he's stupid.

00:38:44.000 Right.

00:38:44.000 You know what I mean?

00:38:45.000 But he...

00:38:49.000 He took advantage of exactly what you said.

00:38:52.000 There's a big portion of this country.

00:38:54.000 You've been there.

00:38:55.000 I've been there.

00:38:57.000 You're an East Coast guy.

00:38:58.000 I'm an East Coast guy.

00:38:59.000 Now, we're both on the West Coast.

00:39:01.000 Because of what we do, these are the worlds we know and what we're surrounded by.

00:39:06.000 My father used to say, if you don't live near a coast, you're a retard.

00:39:13.000 No, more than half the country hates me.

00:39:14.000 I don't believe that, but my father said that.

00:39:16.000 But anyway, when you go through the middle of the country on tour and you meet people, I've been like, yo, I've never met anyone like this before.

00:39:25.000 Not in a good way or a bad way.

00:39:27.000 You're not around them.

00:39:28.000 I'm not around them, and they probably feel like...

00:39:32.000 No one has ever spoken for me.

00:39:35.000 You know what I mean?

00:39:36.000 And even if a dimwit does, that's better than no one speaking for me.

00:39:41.000 Right.

00:39:41.000 That's better than someone just calling them flyover states and disrespecting them.

00:39:45.000 Of course.

00:39:46.000 And when I was younger, I did it too.

00:39:48.000 I talked that way.

00:39:50.000 When tours would get booked, oh, I don't want to go there.

00:39:52.000 It's just youth.

00:39:55.000 It's ego of being where you're from, from the East Coast.

00:39:58.000 Well, obviously, everyone on the East Coast is very proud of that fact.

00:40:01.000 Everyone in the West is very proud of that fact.

00:40:04.000 I don't know anything about Arkansas pride.

00:40:08.000 It's just naivete.

00:40:09.000 I just don't know anyone there, bro.

00:40:11.000 There's no fucking Italians there.

00:40:12.000 I don't know...

00:40:13.000 That's what I am.

00:40:14.000 I'm a WAP. My family's from Italy.

00:40:18.000 It's just naivete and it's being an ignorant American.

00:40:23.000 I spent a lot of time like that until I saw the world.

00:40:26.000 Not the country, the world.

00:40:28.000 And And being on different continents, it changes your thinking, man.

00:40:33.000 You know, the thing you were talking about with diet and discipline, like, you know, these people run, walk everywhere, run everywhere, ride bikes everywhere.

00:40:44.000 McDonald's is eaten like once a year as a crazy, you know, night out.

00:40:49.000 Like, my son lives overseas, you know?

00:40:52.000 He's had McDonald's like three times in his life.

00:40:57.000 Little kids here, it's like every day, Mommy, Chicken McNuggets.

00:41:01.000 You see cultural shifts and why there's no...

00:41:05.000 I've talked to people over there who didn't know what autism was.

00:41:10.000 They never heard of it.

00:41:13.000 Legitimately, what is that?

00:41:14.000 And I had to explain it.

00:41:15.000 And that shit got me thinking too.

00:41:17.000 It's like, okay, why?

00:41:20.000 Why is that not happening there?

00:41:23.000 Why?

00:41:25.000 What could be the reason?

00:41:27.000 Artism?

00:41:28.000 Autism.

00:41:29.000 Artism?

00:41:30.000 Autism.

00:41:30.000 Yes.

00:41:31.000 Autism.

00:41:31.000 Yes.

00:41:31.000 Oh, the disease.

00:41:32.000 Yes.

00:41:33.000 Yeah.

00:41:33.000 Okay.

00:41:33.000 I thought you were saying artism.

00:41:34.000 Oh, I'm sorry.

00:41:35.000 I was like, what is that?

00:41:36.000 I don't know what it is either.

00:41:37.000 Shit.

00:41:37.000 No.

00:41:39.000 You were looking at me like I... I was trying to figure out if you meant artisan, like handcrafted.

00:41:44.000 Yes, yes, yes.

00:41:45.000 Autism.

00:41:46.000 Autism.

00:41:46.000 Yeah, it's that accent, bro.

00:41:48.000 Sorry, my friend.

00:41:49.000 Sorry, buddy.

00:41:50.000 No, but...

00:41:50.000 Yeah, well, they, you know, it's more common, I think, now than ever before.

00:41:56.000 But the question is whether it's more common because it's more diagnosed or whether it's more common because there's more incidents of it.

00:42:03.000 There's a lot of questions as to why.

00:42:06.000 One of the big ones is apparently older people having kids.

00:42:09.000 People waiting and putting off the children.

00:42:12.000 Particularly men.

00:42:13.000 Apparently there's a big risk for older men.

00:42:15.000 Older men a lot of times have autistic kids.

00:42:17.000 I have more than a couple friends with autistic children.

00:42:21.000 Me too.

00:42:25.000 Do you remember when we were young?

00:42:27.000 I think the first time I even was aware was probably the movie Rain Man.

00:42:31.000 I'm not even being funny about it.

00:42:32.000 No, me too.

00:42:33.000 100% first time I was aware.

00:42:34.000 Did it exist and wasn't diagnosed?

00:42:37.000 Well, they wrote a movie about it.

00:42:38.000 I don't think they made it up for the movie.

00:42:39.000 It's like the disease came along and popped up the movie.

00:42:42.000 Right.

00:42:42.000 But what happened?

00:42:45.000 Is it chemical?

00:42:47.000 Is it people that were on drugs?

00:42:49.000 Is it things...

00:42:52.000 Or was it just undiagnosed?

00:42:54.000 I think there's a bunch of factors.

00:42:56.000 I think undiagnosed is one of them.

00:42:58.000 I think also the ability to exchange information now allows you to be aware of it much quicker.

00:43:03.000 Because of the internet, because people text and tweet and do these things on phones, now you hear conversations about autism and all these different things that you don't hear about before.

00:43:12.000 And then I think it's entirely possible that, well, first of all, there's definitely more people now than ever before.

00:43:17.000 Sure.

00:43:17.000 So because of more people, you're going to have more incidences of all sorts of diseases, cancer, whatever it is.

00:43:22.000 And then the question is, is it more per capita or is it more period because there's more people?

00:43:28.000 I don't know the answer.

00:43:29.000 Sure.

00:43:29.000 Well, what you said about more knowledge and information being able to be shared.

00:43:33.000 I have a dissociative disorder.

00:43:35.000 It's called depersonalization disorder.

00:43:37.000 What does that do?

00:43:38.000 So basically, I'll be sitting here talking to you and I'll just...

00:43:43.000 My mind, body, and soul will remove itself from my body.

00:43:46.000 I feel like I'm floating down over my body.

00:43:49.000 I'll look at my hands and they won't feel like mine.

00:43:51.000 Do you smoke weed?

00:43:52.000 No.

00:43:53.000 That's the problem.

00:43:53.000 No.

00:43:55.000 It'll trigger it.

00:43:56.000 Will it?

00:43:57.000 Yes.

00:43:57.000 Right now, if we got high, you would float above yourself?

00:44:00.000 I would fucking take that deer head and put it through my ear.

00:44:07.000 I would lose my shit and I'm envious of how weed has helped so many people and that it can't help me.

00:44:14.000 What does it do to you?

00:44:17.000 I smoked when I was young.

00:44:19.000 And what happened was something triggers DPD in people.

00:44:25.000 It could be a traumatic event.

00:44:27.000 It could be PTSD. You know what I'm saying?

00:44:29.000 Gun to my head, I would say it was my father dying.

00:44:31.000 But it didn't happen right away.

00:44:33.000 Because he died when I was 10. And this started when I was 14. I smoked a blunt of dust.

00:44:38.000 Yeah.

00:44:39.000 And lost my shit.

00:44:41.000 And for about 18 months, no lie, I thought I was in purgatory.

00:44:47.000 Whoa!

00:44:49.000 How old were you?

00:44:49.000 14?

00:44:50.000 14. I was like, I'm definitely not in hell.

00:44:52.000 I'm definitely not in heaven, whatever those might be.

00:44:56.000 Wow.

00:44:56.000 Yo, man.

00:44:57.000 And this is...

00:44:58.000 So this is back then.

00:44:59.000 There is no Twitter in it.

00:45:01.000 I didn't even know what it was.

00:45:03.000 I went to a doctor, told him what happened.

00:45:05.000 He was like, oh, it was what you smoked.

00:45:07.000 You know, don't do that again.

00:45:09.000 And it never left.

00:45:10.000 And then I get these episodes...

00:45:12.000 I'll be in the shower on tour in the Czech Republic...

00:45:16.000 Washing my hair, closing my eyes, and I'll open them and not know where I'm at.

00:45:21.000 No clue where I'm at, and I'll feel like I'm floating outside of my body.

00:45:24.000 You know when you would hear the stories of people dying in an out-of-body experience?

00:45:28.000 That's literally my disorder.

00:45:30.000 I had an out-of-body experience once when I took salvia.

00:45:33.000 I was like, I was over here, like, floating above my, pulsating, floating above myself.

00:45:39.000 Were you scared?

00:45:39.000 No, I was tripping balls.

00:45:40.000 Yes, I think it's it.

00:45:44.000 Like, I'm doing the Fred G. Sanford, Elizabeth.

00:45:45.000 I'm coming to see you.

00:45:46.000 When you hear those drug stories where a guy gets fucked up for like a year, those scared the shit out of me.

00:45:51.000 Well, it happened.

00:45:52.000 Marc Maron was telling us about that, like he did coke with Sam Kinison for like a couple of days, they didn't sleep, and he was fucked up for a year.

00:46:00.000 For a whole year he heard voices.

00:46:02.000 I would trade being fucked up for a year to do coke with Sam Kinison.

00:46:09.000 No, but it was like 18 months of my life.

00:46:12.000 Yo, how do you tell your Italian mother that?

00:46:14.000 No, you can't.

00:46:15.000 You gotta keep your mouth shut.

00:46:16.000 When you come from that culture, man, like my family, like old school Italians, they don't believe in mental.

00:46:22.000 You have to see it.

00:46:23.000 They believe in cancer because they see it destroy your body.

00:46:27.000 If you say, I'm bipolar, I'm depressed, you know what I'm saying?

00:46:30.000 Like, I'm diagnosed depressed, I'm diagnosed DPD, I take medication for it.

00:46:35.000 That still isn't enough for these people.

00:46:37.000 It's to shake it off.

00:46:39.000 You know what I mean?

00:46:40.000 If my father was alive, he'd probably throw me up the flight of stairs for that.

00:46:45.000 That's what Joey Diaz calls immigrant mentality.

00:46:49.000 Immigrant mentality is real, and I'm gonna steal that because they want no...

00:46:55.000 Again, if it's not tangible, they don't believe in it, man.

00:46:59.000 If I broke my leg, that woman would do everything for me.

00:47:04.000 If I'm in the middle of a fucking breakdown, she's like, you want gravy and meatballs?

00:47:09.000 I'm like, ma!

00:47:11.000 I'm losing my shit.

00:47:12.000 I need to be hospitalized.

00:47:14.000 Right.

00:47:15.000 Can't process it.

00:47:16.000 Ben, the best woman.

00:47:17.000 I love no one in the world more than my mother.

00:47:20.000 And no one has been more supportive of me.

00:47:24.000 And that's rare, too, with the immigrant mentality.

00:47:27.000 You'd think I'd get to get a job, go to college.

00:47:29.000 Right.

00:47:29.000 And she was like, baby, you do you.

00:47:31.000 Like, if that's what you want...

00:47:34.000 That's amazing.

00:47:35.000 Do it, but you better do it.

00:47:36.000 Right.

00:47:37.000 Don't do it half-ass and don't bullshit.

00:47:39.000 You know, this drinking 40s and smoking blondes rap shit looks good in the video, but you gotta work.

00:47:46.000 Right.

00:47:46.000 You know what I mean?

00:47:47.000 And it's...

00:47:49.000 The work ethic, like Joey said, the immigrant mentality, but it helps you in other places because when you have relatives that didn't have shit and they're dressed in potato sacks, you go, yo, I can't let my father down.

00:48:05.000 He's not with us anymore, but I can't let him down because...

00:48:11.000 I carry his name.

00:48:13.000 I don't want to embarrass him.

00:48:14.000 I don't want to embarrass my mother.

00:48:16.000 I want her to be proud, you know?

00:48:18.000 And that drives everything, man.

00:48:22.000 I'm getting choked up talking about it because it's like...

00:48:26.000 I do everything for her and my son.

00:48:28.000 And when you're driven by that, it doesn't have to be your mom.

00:48:31.000 When you're driven by something that you care about, it changes everything, man.

00:48:36.000 We have people in our industries, in the entertainment industry, that just have this fucking sense of entitlement, man.

00:48:44.000 It's plagued.

00:48:45.000 I know you know comics with a fucking sense of incitement.

00:48:48.000 When they're rude, when you go backstage, I know from how you are that you shake everyone's hand, say, how you doing?

00:48:56.000 Thank you when they bring you something.

00:48:58.000 Please, thank you.

00:48:59.000 Sure.

00:48:59.000 Yo, people don't do that, man.

00:49:01.000 I know.

00:49:01.000 You know what drives me crazy?

00:49:02.000 When they don't do that to waiters.

00:49:04.000 Waiters and waitresses, they don't say thank you, and they don't tip, or they don't tip well.

00:49:09.000 Last night, the bill was...

00:49:12.000 I gave $1.30 in the bar and I gave them $2.30.

00:49:15.000 And the guy chased me to stop me.

00:49:17.000 They think they made a mistake.

00:49:19.000 He did.

00:49:20.000 He was like, yo, yo, yo, yo, did you mean to do this?

00:49:23.000 You took care of me all night, man.

00:49:25.000 And I know that people are shitting on you and leaving a dollar or maybe not even that.

00:49:29.000 And same with waitresses, man.

00:49:31.000 No one gets shit on more than them.

00:49:32.000 What do they get, like $2 an hour or something?

00:49:34.000 And you know when you really appreciate them?

00:49:36.000 When you go overseas and they don't get tips.

00:49:37.000 Yes.

00:49:38.000 Because those people barely pay attention to you.

00:49:39.000 Those motherfuckers don't care.

00:49:41.000 You'll sit in Amsterdam.

00:49:42.000 They won't even come over to give you your soda for an hour.

00:49:45.000 And in Italy, we were eating at some nice restaurants, and the service was terrible.

00:49:50.000 Awful.

00:49:51.000 Awful.

00:49:52.000 Because they don't give a fuck.

00:49:53.000 They don't give a fuck when you pay the exact same amount.

00:49:56.000 Why would they?

00:49:56.000 Why would they act any different than someone at Burger King?

00:49:59.000 You know what the lady said to me at the restaurant?

00:50:00.000 She goes, we don't include a tip, but if you want, you can leave one.

00:50:03.000 That's true.

00:50:04.000 And I said, listen, baby, I'm going to leave you one.

00:50:05.000 Take care of us.

00:50:06.000 She goes, okay.

00:50:07.000 So we had like a little American exchange there.

00:50:09.000 Don't worry about it, baby.

00:50:10.000 I got you.

00:50:11.000 If you set it up, if there's a preamble, then it works.

00:50:15.000 That's what you got to do.

00:50:16.000 When they're sitting you down, you say, listen, I'm from America.

00:50:18.000 We tip in America.

00:50:19.000 Set the precedent.

00:50:20.000 We tip.

00:50:21.000 I tip big.

00:50:22.000 Let's make this wonderful.

00:50:24.000 You're setting the rogue and pressing.

00:50:25.000 I'm taking care of you, so take care of us.

00:50:28.000 Yeah, man.

00:50:29.000 But it's just, you know, when a kid brings in a case of water, I'm like, hey, man, thank you.

00:50:34.000 I've had those kids say to me, yo, I've been doing this 15 years.

00:50:39.000 No one's ever addressed me.

00:50:40.000 And I'm like...

00:50:43.000 That's awful, A. And I'm sorry for that, but it's not going to be for me.

00:50:48.000 A kid that brings the towels for the stage, hey, thank you.

00:50:51.000 Thank you so much for having us.

00:50:52.000 I appreciate you.

00:50:53.000 I hope we did good.

00:50:54.000 I hope the bar did well because my fans are degenerates.

00:50:59.000 I hope this went well, you know?

00:51:01.000 And I think that goes a long way, bro, in life.

00:51:05.000 I don't want to get into a karma discussion, but I think whether it's a comic, a rapper, a metal band...

00:51:11.000 If you treat people like shit for a long time, that gets around, bro.

00:51:16.000 Comic promoters know each other.

00:51:19.000 Music promoters know each other.

00:51:21.000 They'll fucking call it.

00:51:22.000 Yo, this guy's a fucking dickface, man.

00:51:23.000 I get those stories.

00:51:24.000 I was talking to a promoter the other day, and he was telling me about some guy who's an asshole, and was yelling at the sound guy, the sound check, and yelling at the promoter.

00:51:34.000 Made them fly to New York for something, because...

00:51:37.000 The sound wasn't right or he wasn't happy with something and you know they have to accommodate this guy but they're they're shaking their head and then every chance they get they're gonna tell everybody else of course and Madonna he is and I don't and if he's popular right now when he starts to wane those motherfuckers will remember that yeah now when dudes like me and you if we start to wane we'll still get love yeah because of the way we treated people and that's reciprocated like Yo,

00:52:03.000 maybe he did 5,000 people last time.

00:52:06.000 This time, you know, I'm talking 20 years down the line or something.

00:52:09.000 And then you only do half.

00:52:10.000 They're still going to have you because of the way you behave, the way you were raised.

00:52:14.000 Well, it's also, you got an opportunity when you interact with people.

00:52:18.000 Like, if you're working with someone and you guys are doing something together, you got an opportunity to just put smiles on faces.

00:52:24.000 Yes.

00:52:24.000 And they put smiles on other people's faces.

00:52:26.000 Because of that, everybody's smiling.

00:52:28.000 Then you got a nice little community.

00:52:29.000 Trickle-down effect, man.

00:52:30.000 Yeah, it's a nice community.

00:52:31.000 What...

00:52:32.000 It takes more energy to be an asshole.

00:52:34.000 It does for me, because I can be an asshole.

00:52:36.000 And when I am, I feel drained.

00:52:39.000 It drains the shit out of me.

00:52:40.000 I don't feel good about it.

00:52:42.000 I just have a temper.

00:52:43.000 I have a WAP temper.

00:52:44.000 But I try to curb it.

00:52:45.000 And I realize when...

00:52:48.000 I treat people the way that they deserve to be treated.

00:52:51.000 Everything changes.

00:52:52.000 The energy in the room changes.

00:52:54.000 They might bring you...

00:52:56.000 I don't know if you drink or smoke before you perform.

00:52:58.000 Both.

00:52:59.000 Both.

00:52:59.000 Okay.

00:52:59.000 So if on your rider is two bottles of Grey Goose, you might look over.

00:53:04.000 There might be four.

00:53:05.000 Just because you're a sweetheart, not because you asked for it.

00:53:08.000 Right.

00:53:08.000 It's just little shit.

00:53:10.000 I'm not even saying it's a big deal and it's life-changing.

00:53:13.000 There's just little shit that people will, you know, it makes their day just by us being polite instead of the guy that they had the last night that was a ball breaker and saying, the sound man, the...

00:53:28.000 First off, you don't ever fuck with a sound man as a performer.

00:53:32.000 That motherfucker will get you.

00:53:35.000 That motherfucker's got a ponytail.

00:53:37.000 He smokes weed to the Allman Brothers.

00:53:40.000 He's been around the block.

00:53:41.000 And people don't realize that shit.

00:53:43.000 That motherfucker is 60. He fucking listened to the MC5. He fucking did sound for everybody you and I probably worship.

00:53:51.000 He is not impressed.

00:53:53.000 He's probably impressed by you.

00:53:54.000 He's definitely not impressed by me.

00:53:56.000 A rapper from Philly, he don't give a fuck.

00:53:58.000 He don't want to be doing my sound.

00:54:00.000 So the last thing I need to do is be like, yo, Schmohawk.

00:54:03.000 Turn this up.

00:54:06.000 There's a mentality that a lot of people adopt that when they become successful, they want to be a prick.

00:54:14.000 They want to let everybody know.

00:54:16.000 They want to be that guy who yells and wrecks hotel rooms.

00:54:20.000 You know that kind of shit?

00:54:21.000 Oh, I do.

00:54:22.000 But I can't...

00:54:24.000 I don't understand it.

00:54:26.000 I understand it.

00:54:27.000 Do you?

00:54:28.000 It's a weakness.

00:54:29.000 And it's just, they waited for so long to make it.

00:54:32.000 Now they finally make it.

00:54:33.000 They want everybody to suck their dick.

00:54:35.000 But do you think that things like that can be controlled by upbringing?

00:54:39.000 Yeah, they can be, but it's also...

00:54:41.000 Alright, so I'm ready to smash something in a hotel.

00:54:44.000 I hear my mom...

00:54:49.000 That maid is going to have to spend all day.

00:54:51.000 You know what I mean?

00:54:52.000 She tells me, when I'm cranky about a show or I'm leaving for tour and there's no sleep, she says, you talk to every one of those kids, you sign every autograph, and you take every picture.

00:55:01.000 I'm going upside your head with a wooden spoon.

00:55:03.000 And the wooden spoon still has the crack from my head from back then.

00:55:07.000 And it's still the one she stirs the gravy with.

00:55:09.000 But it's still cracked.

00:55:10.000 But she said, you are here for a reason, and these people look up to you, and these people respect you.

00:55:17.000 And you do your best to not just continue that, but to have them think you're a better person than they already do.

00:55:28.000 Because that's going to trickle down, and then maybe they'll treat people better.

00:55:32.000 Yeah.

00:55:33.000 You said it.

00:55:34.000 All this energy travels, man.

00:55:36.000 It does.

00:55:37.000 You know?

00:55:37.000 If someone was in here right now, just...

00:55:40.000 All three of us would get miserable real quick if someone was in here bitching.

00:55:44.000 Everyone's out to get me.

00:55:45.000 Everyone this and that.

00:55:46.000 It's everyone's fault, man, except theirs.

00:55:49.000 You know that type of motherfucker?

00:55:50.000 It's never their fault.

00:55:52.000 Every fucking decision they made is self-inflicted, but they can't self-examine and say, maybe it's me.

00:55:59.000 How about just give me a maybe, motherfucker?

00:56:01.000 Some of these people I know, that's not even in their head.

00:56:04.000 It's all of us.

00:56:05.000 It's you.

00:56:06.000 It's me.

00:56:07.000 You didn't give them a break.

00:56:08.000 You didn't let them on this show.

00:56:10.000 Motherfucker, maybe it's you.

00:56:11.000 Maybe your energy...

00:56:12.000 I think it's also our responsibility to cast those people aside.

00:56:15.000 Agreed.

00:56:16.000 As a lesson.

00:56:17.000 Agreed.

00:56:17.000 And that's what tribes would do.

00:56:18.000 But when you're talking about a lesson, I think when you're too deep into it, you're not learning.

00:56:22.000 I think when you hit a certain age and you're still like that, I think you're done, man.

00:56:26.000 Some people, yeah.

00:56:27.000 I just think you're done.

00:56:28.000 I know that's a negative way and we're talking about not being negative, but sometimes just reality is reality.

00:56:32.000 Well, if you're being pragmatic and you want to talk about good use of your time, yeah, you're not going to fix a 45-year-old guy who complains every day.

00:56:40.000 And that's what I'm talking about.

00:56:41.000 A 25-year-old kid might be going through some shit.

00:56:44.000 It could be a breakup, a loss of a parent.

00:56:46.000 Bad pattern that they're in.

00:56:48.000 Yeah, of course.

00:56:48.000 Bad mental pattern.

00:56:49.000 And you have to break patterns, and if you don't break them, you end up being that 45-year-old guy.

00:56:54.000 I was a shitty friend to people, man.

00:56:56.000 I've always been loved.

00:56:58.000 And, like, in my 20s and shit, I was just selfish.

00:57:01.000 Like, nothing crazy.

00:57:02.000 I never did anything, like, horrible to someone.

00:57:04.000 But just, I thought about myself first.

00:57:06.000 And I was probably, like, not maybe the best friend of some of these people.

00:57:11.000 And they're still in my life.

00:57:12.000 And I had to make a conscious effort.

00:57:16.000 To evolve.

00:57:17.000 To evolve and break patterns, man.

00:57:19.000 Breaking patterns is hard as fuck.

00:57:21.000 It's hard as fuck.

00:57:22.000 But that's part of growth, you know?

00:57:24.000 And that's one of the reasons why it's important to be around people that are also doing the same kind of thing.

00:57:29.000 You feed off of each other.

00:57:30.000 Yes!

00:57:31.000 Yes.

00:57:31.000 And when you're around people that are just real negative, that feeds off of it too.

00:57:35.000 Of course.

00:57:35.000 You want to be negative as well.

00:57:36.000 Yeah, and you don't feel the need to break that cycle because you're around motherfuckers that are thinking like that too.

00:57:43.000 So it becomes this pity party where it's a circle jerk of misery.

00:57:47.000 You know what I'm saying?

00:57:49.000 And the circle jerk of misery, it's never ending, man.

00:57:54.000 One of the things that really expands your understanding of people and life is just being in a bunch of different places and understanding that where you grew up is just one part of the world.

00:58:04.000 Yes.

00:58:05.000 The world is this massive place.

00:58:06.000 I just got back from Thailand.

00:58:08.000 I was in Thailand this summer.

00:58:10.000 I've never been around so many friendly people.

00:58:13.000 Friendly, nice, smiling people.

00:58:15.000 I think they call it the land of the smile or land of a thousand smiles or some show like that.

00:58:19.000 That's beautiful.

00:58:19.000 But that's what it's like.

00:58:20.000 When you're over there, people are just so friendly.

00:58:22.000 And I was like, wow, okay, if you grew up here, something about whatever momentum that these people have developed in their culture, their culture is like smiling and friendly to each other.

00:58:32.000 Yes.

00:58:32.000 This is just the vibe, the way they do it.

00:58:36.000 But if you were around some real aggro, super shitty, insulting, aggressive culture, then that would be what you had to adapt to.

00:58:44.000 Bro, Philly was voted the most hostile city in America by Time Magazine.

00:58:49.000 Oh, it's up there.

00:58:52.000 Philly loves you though.

00:58:54.000 Recently, when I said, this is how I describe Philly, I said, they're very smart people who will punch you.

00:59:01.000 Yeah.

00:59:02.000 That's a good description of me.

00:59:03.000 Yeah.

00:59:03.000 Not the very smart.

00:59:05.000 Not the very smart.

00:59:07.000 Of average intelligence that will punch you.

00:59:09.000 But Philly's a sophisticated city.

00:59:12.000 It's a real city, but they're hard people.

00:59:15.000 Goons, man.

00:59:16.000 Yeah, they're hard people there.

00:59:17.000 Look, man, we threw snowballs at Santa Claus.

00:59:21.000 Michael Irvin broke his leg and we cheered.

00:59:23.000 Well, the famous Bill Burr rant when they booed Dom Herrera and then Bill Burr went on and tortured Philly for ten minutes.

00:59:31.000 Yes.

00:59:31.000 And I love Dom.

00:59:32.000 I love Dom.

00:59:33.000 Me and Dom eat at the same restaurant.

00:59:34.000 I'm working with Dom tonight.

00:59:36.000 Are you?

00:59:36.000 At the Ice House.

00:59:37.000 Big Petey?

00:59:37.000 Little Petey?

00:59:38.000 Yeah.

00:59:39.000 Dom's great, man.

00:59:40.000 He's the best.

00:59:41.000 We eat at a place called Poppy's in South Philly, and I see him all the time.

00:59:44.000 He's a sweetheart.

00:59:44.000 He's a great guy.

00:59:45.000 Great guy, man.

00:59:46.000 Legend.

00:59:47.000 Yeah.

00:59:48.000 I just saw him on the Bruce Willis roast, and he murdered on that.

00:59:52.000 He murdered.

00:59:52.000 But he's...

00:59:53.000 Great guy.

00:59:56.000 I've been friends with Dom for like 25 years.

00:59:59.000 Have you?

01:00:00.000 Yeah.

01:00:00.000 Wow.

01:00:00.000 You know he's a Philly guy, right?

01:00:01.000 Oh, yeah.

01:00:02.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:00:04.000 But yeah, there's also a level of guilt, though, in cutting some of these people off that you were talking about.

01:00:12.000 That's kind of hard for me.

01:00:13.000 Yeah, because like loyalty is a big thing too when you're talking about all these you gotta tell them these pot they don't listen and then you gotta tell them again Then they don't listen then you got to cut them off and you go look I told you that's what's happening now, but I still it's it eats at me I feel bad like I should be like It's a savior complex.

01:00:31.000 Mmm.

01:00:31.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:00:32.000 I know that I I don't want anyone to be fucked up man And I have a hard time Being like, yo, this person is detrimental and they...

01:00:45.000 My energy is fucked up with them being in my life.

01:00:48.000 But when it's time to cut them off, I still feel like, am I being a shitty person by doing that?

01:00:53.000 Yeah, well that's what they want you to think.

01:00:55.000 Because they don't take care of themselves.

01:00:56.000 You gotta take care of yourself before I take care of you.

01:00:58.000 I mean, you gotta at least want to.

01:01:00.000 I'll help you if you want to.

01:01:01.000 But if you're not taking care of yourself and you want me to do it for you, hey, hey, you gotta get your own shit together first.

01:01:08.000 At least make an attempt.

01:01:10.000 You can't just ask everybody to carry your bags.

01:01:13.000 They want you to carry their emotional bags all the time.

01:01:17.000 And again, like I said, there's no introspection.

01:01:21.000 There's no, well, maybe this many years and all of this shit happened to me.

01:01:26.000 Maybe it's me and I'm a dickhead.

01:01:43.000 Oh, wow, yeah.

01:01:50.000 Be feel abandoned and so you don't want to leave anybody behind so I always rescued stray dogs and feral cats and took in crazy friends and this my whole life has been like that and you've taken in the misfits and your father made that Decision and that weighs on you and my father made the decision to die.

01:02:09.000 He had three he had bypass surgeries.

01:02:11.000 They told him stop smoking Stop doing this stop doing that He had my older brother Bring cigarettes to the hospital.

01:02:21.000 He drug the IV down to the bathroom and was smoking out of the window.

01:02:24.000 He had a young son and made a choice not to live for him.

01:02:28.000 My other brothers are 11 and 12 years older.

01:02:31.000 So they got him for, they were 21 and 22. You know what I mean?

01:02:34.000 Like, bro, I can't remember his voice.

01:02:36.000 Right.

01:02:37.000 You know what I mean?

01:02:37.000 And that shit weighs heavy because it's like, did he not love me enough to live for me?

01:02:43.000 And those things manifest themselves in different ways as you get older that you don't even know.

01:02:48.000 You know what's crazy?

01:02:49.000 It's a gift in some ways.

01:02:51.000 It's the gift and the curse.

01:02:52.000 Yeah, the gift is that you have this energy that comes from this lack, this lack of something in your life when you're young.

01:03:01.000 You know, I mean, this is something I struggle with with my kids because I try to give my kids everything.

01:03:05.000 Always give them love, always give around them, love them.

01:03:07.000 Yeah, hug, kiss all the time, make sure they know.

01:03:09.000 We were talking about this yesterday.

01:03:11.000 All my friends that are interesting came from fucked up childhoods.

01:03:14.000 All my favorite friends.

01:03:16.000 Right.

01:03:16.000 All my favorite friends, their life was chaos when they were growing up and they became these really interesting people.

01:03:21.000 I hate that that's what created us.

01:03:25.000 But, I mean, you couldn't be more right.

01:03:27.000 I mean, you're talking about your favorite friends.

01:03:30.000 I mean, my favorite, everything.

01:03:32.000 Everything.

01:03:32.000 Artists.

01:03:33.000 Painters, musicians, rock bands, punk, metal.

01:03:36.000 All of them were fucked in there.

01:03:38.000 I don't know any well-balanced people that I feel are like, oh, that guy's a brilliant mind.

01:03:42.000 He came from a two-parent home in the suburbs of Connecticut.

01:03:45.000 I don't know anyone like that.

01:03:47.000 Pressure creates diamonds.

01:03:48.000 Yeah, man.

01:03:49.000 It busts pipes, too.

01:03:50.000 It does bust pipes.

01:03:53.000 Yeah, but I wonder how much of that stuff haunts me.

01:04:01.000 You know, your parents splitting and being seven.

01:04:03.000 Like, how many of the fucked up things that go on in your head now relate back to that?

01:04:07.000 And you're not even aware.

01:04:08.000 Because the mind is so complicated.

01:04:10.000 Oh, yeah.

01:04:11.000 There's a lot of it.

01:04:12.000 You know when I started realizing it when I was smoking weed?

01:04:14.000 I didn't really start smoking weed seriously until I was 30. Okay.

01:04:18.000 And then when I started doing it, then I started thinking about all sorts of different patterns of my behavior and why I was angry all the time.

01:04:24.000 Right.

01:04:24.000 And I think a lot of it came from this resentment of being abandoned when I was young.

01:04:28.000 Well, some of your early stuff was fucking super dark.

01:04:32.000 I mean, I think you're a brilliant comic, so I love all your stuff.

01:04:35.000 Thank you.

01:04:36.000 But some of that earlier stuff, man.

01:04:37.000 Yeah, well, young and angry.

01:04:40.000 Dark places.

01:04:40.000 It was also, that was also just a few years after I was done fighting.

01:04:46.000 I was a different person.

01:04:47.000 I just had a different mindset.

01:04:49.000 Sure.

01:04:49.000 And that's a very strange transition between competition and then stand-up comedy.

01:04:55.000 Of course.

01:04:56.000 It's just a very different kind of mindset.

01:04:59.000 Of course.

01:04:59.000 And I carried a little bit too much combat with me in my early days.

01:05:01.000 Yeah, well, you were still fighting.

01:05:03.000 You were still fighting.

01:05:04.000 And sometimes when you don't know what you're fighting...

01:05:07.000 Yeah.

01:05:08.000 It's worse.

01:05:09.000 It's worse.

01:05:09.000 Because you start internalizing it, and you don't know what the...

01:05:12.000 It's war with self.

01:05:13.000 Yeah.

01:05:14.000 And the war with self, because you don't...

01:05:19.000 This energy needs to be channeled.

01:05:21.000 And how can it be?

01:05:22.000 And you went batshit on the mic.

01:05:24.000 And went really dark with it.

01:05:26.000 And I've done that too.

01:05:27.000 But for us to be healthy...

01:05:29.000 Here's the other question, though.

01:05:30.000 If we were to get healthy, would we just suck?

01:05:33.000 Yeah, well, I used to worry about that when I was young.

01:05:35.000 I used to worry about being...

01:05:37.000 My idea was that if I became somehow, you know, air quote, enlightened, that I wouldn't be funny anymore.

01:05:43.000 Right.

01:05:43.000 Because all the funny people I knew were fucked up.

01:05:45.000 Of course.

01:05:46.000 I thought that I needed to be a drug addict.

01:05:47.000 I'm like, damn, Kinison was a drug addict.

01:05:49.000 Pryor was a drug addict.

01:05:50.000 Maybe I needed to be a drug addict.

01:05:51.000 Look at these people.

01:05:53.000 I mean, historically, look at Hendrix.

01:05:55.000 You know what I mean?

01:05:56.000 Look at Bukowski.

01:05:58.000 Morrison.

01:05:58.000 Janis Joplin.

01:05:59.000 Yes, Bukowski.

01:06:01.000 Bukowski's a fucking...

01:06:02.000 Mess.

01:06:03.000 The town drunk.

01:06:04.000 Yeah.

01:06:04.000 And one of the best.

01:06:05.000 I thought and think the same way.

01:06:07.000 I'm like, I might need to pick up a habit.

01:06:09.000 Yeah.

01:06:09.000 Do you drink?

01:06:10.000 Yeah.

01:06:11.000 Just a little bit or a lot?

01:06:12.000 I shouldn't.

01:06:12.000 I drank a lot and had an epiphany.

01:06:15.000 I woke up one day and cold turkeyed it.

01:06:19.000 Really?

01:06:19.000 Yeah.

01:06:20.000 Yeah.

01:06:20.000 I drank a lot for a lot of years.

01:06:22.000 And now you don't drink at all or just a little?

01:06:24.000 No, no.

01:06:24.000 Just like casual.

01:06:26.000 A little bit.

01:06:26.000 You know, a little bit.

01:06:27.000 A little bit.

01:06:28.000 A little bit.

01:06:29.000 But it's more like when I perform.

01:06:32.000 Right.

01:06:33.000 You know what I mean?

01:06:34.000 Just loosen up.

01:06:34.000 Yeah, but I was drinking two bottles of Grey Goose alone every night.

01:06:38.000 Oh.

01:06:39.000 Yeah, alone.

01:06:40.000 Dolo.

01:06:40.000 Every night.

01:06:41.000 Seven days a week.

01:06:42.000 That's a lot.

01:06:43.000 Two bottles to the head.

01:06:44.000 That's Burt Kreischer.

01:06:45.000 Love Burt.

01:06:46.000 Love the Burt.

01:06:48.000 I know the bird.

01:06:49.000 He's got a bottle in his head.

01:06:50.000 What?

01:06:51.000 When he's listening to this.

01:06:52.000 What?

01:06:53.000 Ooh.

01:06:54.000 Love the bird.

01:06:54.000 Yeah.

01:06:55.000 Yeah.

01:06:55.000 You guys are close, yeah?

01:06:56.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:06:57.000 We're doing Sober October.

01:06:58.000 We're trying to figure out the bet.

01:07:00.000 Well, who cracks first?

01:07:02.000 Yeah, well, we're trying to figure out what to do.

01:07:03.000 Tom Segura's got some great idea.

01:07:05.000 Instead of yoga classes, there's some application that you...

01:07:09.000 Let me find out.

01:07:10.000 Are you in on this bet?

01:07:11.000 I want money on this.

01:07:13.000 Yeah.

01:07:14.000 Crash is going to crack.

01:07:15.000 You're not going to be able to do the pot?

01:07:17.000 No, I took the last Sober October off.

01:07:21.000 The whole month?

01:07:22.000 Yeah, I took the whole month off.

01:07:23.000 No pot?

01:07:23.000 No, no pot.

01:07:24.000 You don't believe me?

01:07:25.000 How dare you?

01:07:26.000 Wow, listen.

01:07:26.000 You're looking at me.

01:07:27.000 I am.

01:07:28.000 I am looking at you crazy.

01:07:29.000 Let me find the order here.

01:07:31.000 Joseph, I don't believe that.

01:07:33.000 You were sneaking the pot.

01:07:34.000 No, I wasn't.

01:07:35.000 What does he say in Family Guy?

01:07:37.000 Ari didn't believe it either.

01:07:38.000 Ari wanted to get me tested.

01:07:39.000 We went to a yoga class.

01:07:40.000 If I put money, I'm getting blood work.

01:07:43.000 Ari's like, we're going to go to CVS. We're going to take a drug test.

01:07:46.000 He said he's still going to do mushrooms when he's camping or some shit.

01:07:48.000 Oh, that's okay.

01:07:49.000 That's all right.

01:07:50.000 I'll let that slide.

01:07:51.000 So this is what the fuck this thing is.

01:07:53.000 It's some sort of a heart rate application.

01:07:57.000 What is it called?

01:07:58.000 MyZone.

01:08:00.000 You wear this thing around your chest, and it registers on an app, and it gives you points for the amount of work you do.

01:08:09.000 And Tom suggested that we try to achieve some ridiculous amount of points for the month.

01:08:15.000 So it's like 40,000 points or some shit.

01:08:18.000 This is it?

01:08:19.000 You got it?

01:08:21.000 I forget what the number that Tom said, but we're gonna have to agree on this number.

01:08:25.000 And what it would basically mean is you gotta work out almost an hour and a half every single fucking day of the month.

01:08:33.000 No off days.

01:08:35.000 No off days.

01:08:36.000 Well, you're in good shape.

01:08:37.000 You can do that.

01:08:38.000 Yeah, I'll be alright.

01:08:40.000 I'll figure out different shit to do.

01:08:42.000 So I'll run hills, I'll kick box, I'll do a little jujitsu, I'll do a bike.

01:08:46.000 If I get in on it, you guys can bet on how long before I die.

01:08:50.000 Well, you work out, right?

01:08:51.000 I know you do a little boxing.

01:08:52.000 Well, here's the thing.

01:08:54.000 I did and was in good shape as a kid.

01:08:56.000 Then when I got rap money, I did the dumb thing and turned into a fat pig.

01:09:01.000 So the past maybe years, a couple years, maybe 18 months, I'm back boxing again.

01:09:08.000 So you're just regular, hitting the bag, skipping rope.

01:09:11.000 Hitting the bag, cardio, skipping rope.

01:09:14.000 I know you're a giant boxing fan.

01:09:16.000 Yeah, like obsessive.

01:09:18.000 Yeah, me too.

01:09:18.000 Yeah, I know you are.

01:09:20.000 I know you are.

01:09:21.000 Yeah, I liked your post on Canelo Alvarez and Triple G, too, that casual boxing fans are the worst.

01:09:27.000 I mean, it's really like child molesters, and then they're the worst, like pedophiles are the worst, and then casual boxing fans.

01:09:37.000 Yeah, it's the same with MMA fans.

01:09:39.000 Oh, I'm sure.

01:09:39.000 Well, those kids hate me.

01:09:41.000 They just yell at me.

01:09:43.000 When I post something about boxing, watch MMA, faggot!

01:09:46.000 I'm like, Jesus, man!

01:09:48.000 Yo, man!

01:09:51.000 You know, it's a little aggro towards me.

01:09:54.000 Yeah, how come you could be a soccer fan, but you can't be a boxing fan?

01:09:58.000 I don't know, man.

01:09:59.000 How come you could be a basketball fan, but you can't be a boxing fan?

01:10:02.000 I don't know.

01:10:03.000 The hostility is there, man.

01:10:05.000 Well, it's a stupid...

01:10:07.000 There's a conflict between MMA and boxing.

01:10:10.000 I think it's stupid.

01:10:11.000 It's a deal to a lot of people, you know what I mean?

01:10:14.000 It's so stupid because so many MMA fighters have learned from boxers.

01:10:18.000 Absolutely.

01:10:18.000 You know Mack Danzig?

01:10:20.000 Sure, yeah.

01:10:20.000 Mack's a friend of mine and he's a huge boxing fan and would train a wild card.

01:10:25.000 He's one of the rare, Mack Danzig was one of the rare vegans that competed successfully for a long period of time in MMA. One of the rare ones.

01:10:33.000 But he's a smart guy.

01:10:35.000 Very bright guy.

01:10:36.000 Yeah, really watched his diet correctly and made sure he got the proper foods and fatty acids and all the different things.

01:10:43.000 Yeah, I couldn't do it.

01:10:45.000 Yeah, well, I mean, for him, in his mind, it was an ethical choice.

01:10:49.000 I know there's a lot of other ones that are vegetarians that do really well, like Jake Shields.

01:10:53.000 He's a vegetarian, but he eats eggs and milk and cheese and things along those lines.

01:10:59.000 But you hunt your own stuff.

01:11:01.000 Yeah.

01:11:01.000 Do you enjoy that?

01:11:02.000 I do, yeah.

01:11:04.000 But how do you learn that process of what you do after the animal?

01:11:11.000 Yeah, I got lucky that I learned from people that know what they're doing.

01:11:15.000 Steve Rinella, who's a good friend of mine, took me for the first time on a television show.

01:11:20.000 So the first time I ever hunted was on TV, which is kind of nerve-wracking.

01:11:24.000 You don't want to fuck up and wound an animal on television.

01:11:28.000 But...

01:11:30.000 What it is to me, it's like, I saw so many PETA videos.

01:11:34.000 I saw so many of those factory farming videos.

01:11:37.000 Yeah, me too.

01:11:37.000 I don't want to be a part of this.

01:11:38.000 Me too.

01:11:39.000 So I was either going to be a vegetarian, which I tried to be when I was fighting.

01:11:42.000 I was trying to stay at a lower weight class, and I was a vegetarian for a while, and I felt like shit.

01:11:47.000 And I probably was doing it wrong, if you're ready to scream at your keyboard right now.

01:11:52.000 Oh, no, that's what they're doing right now.

01:11:54.000 Vegan plant power, plant-based power.

01:11:56.000 Yeah, you're going to get bombarded.

01:11:58.000 But when I started eating meat again, I went up a weight class, and I became much better.

01:12:03.000 My body just reacts better with meat.

01:12:06.000 Me too.

01:12:06.000 Yeah, me too.

01:12:07.000 I tried it too, you know what I mean?

01:12:11.000 I just found that, you know...

01:12:15.000 Making smart decisions.

01:12:17.000 Forget vegan, vegetarian, or meat diet.

01:12:19.000 Just making smart decisions.

01:12:22.000 Dietary decisions.

01:12:23.000 You know what I mean?

01:12:24.000 It was all the difference in the world for me.

01:12:28.000 And as someone who works out as much as you do, you feel better.

01:12:31.000 You just do.

01:12:32.000 It's not a lie.

01:12:33.000 No one's lying to you about it.

01:12:35.000 You just feel better when you work out.

01:12:36.000 Well, the thing about the fighters and people that are in competition, though, it's like there's more at stake because it's not just about feeling better.

01:12:43.000 It's like you have an obligation to your brain, to your body, and to your future to perform at your best.

01:12:50.000 And your life.

01:12:50.000 Yeah.

01:12:51.000 Because that's not a game, man.

01:12:52.000 You don't play MMA. You don't play boxing.

01:12:55.000 Right.

01:12:55.000 It's true.

01:12:55.000 You can die.

01:12:57.000 People have.

01:12:59.000 If you're cutting weight the wrong way, you know what I mean?

01:13:03.000 Because there's tons of wrong ways to do shit.

01:13:05.000 We know diuretics, all of that.

01:13:08.000 You come in malnourished and someone hits like a fucking mule, man.

01:13:13.000 That's no joke.

01:13:14.000 It's no joke.

01:13:15.000 I mean, if anybody thinks you play boxing, watch Canelo Alvarez versus...

01:13:24.000 Watch any real vicious knockout where someone's getting their head bounced off the canvas.

01:13:30.000 He took James Kirkland's soul out of his body.

01:13:33.000 How about Amir Khan?

01:13:34.000 We cracked Amir Khan with that right hand.

01:13:36.000 Boom!

01:13:37.000 I mean, we go back to the 80s and Julian Jackson would just separate people from their...

01:13:43.000 Dude.

01:13:44.000 Julian Jackson was a murderous puncher.

01:13:46.000 He's the hardest puncher I ever saw in my life.

01:13:48.000 Here's Amir Khan right here and Canelo Alvarez.

01:13:51.000 The right hand.

01:13:52.000 See, this is...

01:13:53.000 Oh, good Lord.

01:13:54.000 Beautiful.

01:13:55.000 That was one of those fights where...

01:13:56.000 He short-circuited right there.

01:13:57.000 He doesn't know where he's at.

01:13:58.000 That's not a game right there.

01:14:00.000 No.

01:14:00.000 You're not playing that.

01:14:02.000 Canelo's so much bigger than him, too.

01:14:03.000 Just so much bigger.

01:14:05.000 Yeah, I mean, he made 154, but he's a middleweight, and Amir Khan is a blown-up welter.

01:14:11.000 Yeah.

01:14:12.000 But he just separated his soul from his body right there.

01:14:15.000 Yeah, just fucking hammer time.

01:14:16.000 That was one of the interesting things, and you put this on your Instagram about the first Triple G fight.

01:14:21.000 He landed then on Triple G, and Triple G shook it off and kept walking towards him.

01:14:25.000 Yeah.

01:14:25.000 And you could see it in his eyes like, oh my goodness.

01:14:28.000 Caught him clean.

01:14:29.000 I mean, you're a fighter, man.

01:14:31.000 You hit someone with your best shit, and they don't budge.

01:14:33.000 Yeah.

01:14:33.000 Ooh!

01:14:34.000 Yeah, especially if you're used to taking people out.

01:14:36.000 That's what I mean.

01:14:36.000 And everything shifts.

01:14:37.000 Well, that's where a guy like Paulie Malignaggi has a slight advantage.

01:14:42.000 He very rarely knocks anybody out.

01:14:44.000 So he's used to hitting people and keeping going.

01:14:46.000 Yes, yes.

01:14:47.000 He had bad hands.

01:14:49.000 He had bad hands.

01:14:49.000 So he had to change his style, you know, to box and just poke the jab over and over and over.

01:14:55.000 Throw a right hand every now and then to keep him honest with bad hands.

01:14:59.000 But the beautiful thing that Canelo did, he just...

01:15:04.000 Pawed with a jab, just to draw him down, and it came over the top with the right hand.

01:15:08.000 But yeah, beautiful stuff, man.

01:15:10.000 Yeah, that fight, I watched it again after Teddy Atlas and I had a podcast.

01:15:15.000 I watched a Triple G-Canelo fight again.

01:15:17.000 Did you score it?

01:15:18.000 Nope.

01:15:19.000 No, I didn't, because my kids were running around, screaming at me.

01:15:21.000 So the eye test, what does your eye test say?

01:15:23.000 Fucking close fight.

01:15:24.000 Yeah.

01:15:25.000 Fucking close fight.

01:15:26.000 You know, I think Triple G came on real strong towards the end of the fight.

01:15:29.000 Second half, yeah.

01:15:30.000 Makes you want a 15-round fight is what it makes.

01:15:32.000 Yes, it does.

01:15:33.000 Yes, it does.

01:15:33.000 But again, them motherfuckers were struggling.

01:15:36.000 Yeah.

01:15:36.000 You know, with those 15 rounds.

01:15:38.000 Like the Dooku Kim stuff with Ray.

01:15:40.000 I think a lot of that shit was because of the 15 rounds.

01:15:44.000 You know what I mean?

01:15:44.000 Also because of weight cutting back then.

01:15:45.000 Of course.

01:15:46.000 No IVs.

01:15:47.000 And same-day weigh-ins.

01:15:49.000 Yeah, same day Wayne.

01:15:51.000 Which is fucking dangerous.

01:15:52.000 Yeah, real dangerous.

01:15:53.000 Yes, but 15 rounds, I mean, it's funny we watch fighters in any professional fight in combat sports.

01:16:00.000 You see them gassing in like the second.

01:16:02.000 You know, Larry Holmes had tits and was going, big tits, and he was going 15 easy.

01:16:07.000 Yeah.

01:16:07.000 It's crazy, you know?

01:16:09.000 It's just the human body is...

01:16:12.000 It's also understanding how to manage your energy, too, right?

01:16:15.000 Of course, of course, of course.

01:16:17.000 I mean, when you come out in the first couple and you're just letting shots fly and then you're gas in the middle, that's not a shock.

01:16:23.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:16:25.000 It can work, but when it doesn't work, you're fucked.

01:16:30.000 Exactly.

01:16:31.000 When you ice them in the second, you look like you had a brilliant game plan.

01:16:35.000 When you're gassed in the seventh, people are questioning your ability, your ring IQ, your corner.

01:16:41.000 It's a risk.

01:16:43.000 It is.

01:16:43.000 It's a heavy risk to throw all your artillery at someone in the first round.

01:16:46.000 Absolutely.

01:16:47.000 Yeah.

01:16:48.000 It's just such a fascinating sport.

01:16:50.000 I love all combat sports, but one of the things about boxing is it's a combat sport that has just the longest, richest history.

01:16:59.000 When you go back and you can watch...

01:17:01.000 I mean, when Teddy was here, we were watching Max Schmeling versus Joe Louis' second fight.

01:17:06.000 You can go back and watch some of Sugar Ray Robinson's greatest fights.

01:17:10.000 Yeah, Henry Armstrong.

01:17:11.000 Yeah.

01:17:11.000 Oh, man.

01:17:12.000 I mean, you get to see the rich history of boxing.

01:17:15.000 And you look at Jack Johnson fighting with those, you know, black and white films and Jack Dempsey.

01:17:21.000 Yeah, Gene Tunney.

01:17:22.000 Yeah, man.

01:17:23.000 It's crazy.

01:17:23.000 It's beautiful that we have to see it.

01:17:25.000 All the guys in the audience with hats on?

01:17:27.000 Who was that about?

01:17:28.000 I don't know, man.

01:17:28.000 Like the olden days, dudes all wore hats.

01:17:30.000 All wore hats.

01:17:31.000 Like pork pies.

01:17:32.000 Yeah, strange.

01:17:33.000 Well, very strange.

01:17:34.000 Yeah.

01:17:35.000 I mean, there's a history to boxing that no other sport could really come close to.

01:17:39.000 Agreed.

01:17:40.000 Yeah.

01:17:41.000 Now, I always have been a giant fan of boxing.

01:17:45.000 Before MMA came around, I mean, that was really all you had to watch.

01:17:49.000 You could watch, like, a little bit of kickboxing on television, rarely, but it was always bad.

01:17:54.000 Well, the other thing was those guys were superstars.

01:17:58.000 The heavyweight champ of the world when we were younger was, like, you know, if we walked out on the street right now and asked someone who the heavyweight champ is, I'm guessing...

01:18:06.000 No one knows.

01:18:07.000 Some of them might say Mike Tyson.

01:18:09.000 Yeah.

01:18:09.000 Well, for the longest time, the crazy thing was it was a white guy.

01:18:11.000 Yeah.

01:18:12.000 And no one knew.

01:18:13.000 Like, everybody when we were kids wanted a white heavyweight champion.

01:18:16.000 That's why they pumped, you know, Jerry Cooney so hard, you know what I mean?

01:18:20.000 Like, Tommy Morrison.

01:18:22.000 Yep.

01:18:22.000 They wanted it so bad, you know what I mean?

01:18:24.000 I know.

01:18:25.000 But, like, those guys, like, you know, Sugar Ray Leonard was a hero.

01:18:30.000 He was on a McDonald's commercial.

01:18:32.000 It's like, those days are gone, though, you know?

01:18:34.000 It's become a niche.

01:18:35.000 Yeah.

01:18:36.000 It's now a niche sport again, you know what I mean?

01:18:38.000 Why do you think that is?

01:18:39.000 I don't know.

01:18:39.000 I honestly don't know.

01:18:41.000 Is it because people got tired of corruption?

01:18:45.000 I've talked to Teddy at fights, not at length like you did, but when I go to fights and he's calling them, I always pay my respect.

01:18:53.000 But I'm not sure how or why or when it shifted, that shift from the 80s to early 90s and then that's it.

01:19:03.000 Was it Mike going to jail?

01:19:05.000 I don't know.

01:19:06.000 Was it...

01:19:08.000 You know, De La Hoy was huge, but I don't know.

01:19:13.000 I don't know why...

01:19:14.000 These dudes were like, you know, Ali was the most well-known...

01:19:19.000 He's still the most well-known athlete ever, maybe, right?

01:19:21.000 Probably.

01:19:22.000 Close to it.

01:19:22.000 You know, I don't know who else would beat him.

01:19:24.000 Jordan, by name, you know what I mean?

01:19:26.000 What was really interesting was when Larry Holmes was a champ, nobody gave a shit.

01:19:29.000 Because he had to fill the void of Muhammad Ali.

01:19:33.000 And he was between Ali and Tyson.

01:19:35.000 And Tyson, yeah.

01:19:36.000 You know, the two dudes who...

01:19:40.000 He basically transcended.

01:19:42.000 Meanwhile, the Ali that beat the fuck out of Jerry Cooney, I would have loved to see him against Tyson.

01:19:48.000 Me too.

01:19:48.000 That's a different, I mean, not Ali, excuse me, Larry Holmes.

01:19:51.000 Yeah.

01:19:52.000 The Larry Holmes that beat the fuck out of Jerry Cooney.

01:19:53.000 Because he came out of retirement for that payday against Mike.

01:19:56.000 And he was fat, and he looked out of shape, and he still looked good in the second round up until he got cracked.

01:20:00.000 When he was dancing.

01:20:01.000 Yeah.

01:20:01.000 A prime Larry gives Mike problems all day.

01:20:04.000 Yes.

01:20:04.000 A prime Larry was a beast.

01:20:06.000 He was a special fighter.

01:20:08.000 He had a tremendous jab.

01:20:09.000 The best heavyweight jab I ever saw.

01:20:12.000 The Ali that fought Larry Holmes was an old, broken down Ali.

01:20:18.000 They shouldn't have ever let that fight take place.

01:20:20.000 A shell of himself.

01:20:21.000 It was horrible to watch.

01:20:22.000 But that Larry Holmes would have given Mike Tyson fits.

01:20:27.000 Absolutely.

01:20:27.000 It was a different Larry Holmes.

01:20:28.000 Absolutely.

01:20:29.000 He was a monster when he was young.

01:20:30.000 Absolutely.

01:20:31.000 Strong, snap and jab.

01:20:33.000 Criminally underrated in history.

01:20:35.000 Eddie Futch trained.

01:20:36.000 Yes!

01:20:37.000 I mean, you know, Eddie Futch may be the best trainer of all time.

01:20:41.000 One of them, for sure.

01:20:43.000 But again, like you said, things are time and place, man.

01:20:46.000 Everything.

01:20:47.000 Music, too.

01:20:48.000 Comedy.

01:20:49.000 Some brilliant comedian slipped through the cracks due to what was happening at that time in comedy.

01:20:55.000 And with Larry, it's like, yo, you came after the most popular fighter of all time.

01:21:00.000 Ever.

01:21:01.000 And before Mike, who, you know, again, two dudes who transcended the sport.

01:21:04.000 And he beat up the most popular fighter of all time when everybody knew it was long over.

01:21:10.000 Long over.

01:21:10.000 Yeah.

01:21:11.000 Yeah, so he can't...

01:21:12.000 People aren't happy about that.

01:21:15.000 And then he talked shit about Marciano, which didn't endear him to people.

01:21:18.000 That was a mistake.

01:21:19.000 Yeah, he said Marciano couldn't carry his jockstrap.

01:21:21.000 Yeah, that's my son's name.

01:21:23.000 My son's name, Marciano, so that...

01:21:27.000 Yeah, that's a hurt one.

01:21:28.000 Yeah, a little bit.

01:21:30.000 Yeah, it's, you know, Larry just had poor timing, unfortunately for him.

01:21:35.000 Yeah.

01:21:36.000 He was very smart with his money, though, because I still see him at the fights, and he's paid.

01:21:43.000 That's good.

01:21:44.000 Yeah, it's good to hear, because you know as well as I do what happens to some fighters.

01:21:47.000 Well, didn't he own, like, a shitload of things in Easton, Pennsylvania?

01:21:51.000 Yes, yes.

01:21:52.000 Just took over Easton.

01:21:53.000 He did.

01:21:53.000 Bought, like, car dealerships and all kinds of shit.

01:21:55.000 Car washes and shit like that.

01:21:57.000 Yeah, Larry was smart, man.

01:21:58.000 And he still talks shit, too.

01:22:00.000 Does he?

01:22:00.000 Yeah.

01:22:01.000 Well, remember when he came back and he boxed the face off of Ray Mercer?

01:22:04.000 Yeah.

01:22:05.000 He was old.

01:22:06.000 He was old as shit when he went before Butterbean and boxed it off.

01:22:09.000 Yes, yes.

01:22:10.000 He still had it.

01:22:12.000 And when Mike Tyson went to jail, he's like, as long as Mike Tyson's in jail.

01:22:15.000 Yeah.

01:22:16.000 That was great.

01:22:17.000 I'll keep fighting.

01:22:18.000 Sure.

01:22:19.000 That was hilarious.

01:22:20.000 Yeah.

01:22:20.000 Larry Holmes was something special.

01:22:22.000 He was.

01:22:22.000 For a lot of people, he slipped through the cracks.

01:22:25.000 People in the know know, though.

01:22:26.000 And that's what's most important at the end of the day, you know?

01:22:29.000 Yeah, that's true.

01:22:30.000 Yeah, that's true.

01:22:31.000 I mean, and then Trevor Burbick fought Ali too, right?

01:22:34.000 Yes.

01:22:35.000 That was like, was that the last fight?

01:22:36.000 Yeah, or second to last.

01:22:39.000 But he was, the Parkinson's was already starting, man.

01:22:41.000 Yeah.

01:22:41.000 You know, because you think of him a couple years later at Tyson, when Tyson beat Burbick, and he was trembling then.

01:22:47.000 You know what I mean?

01:22:48.000 Like, wow.

01:22:49.000 Yeah.

01:22:51.000 We talk about it.

01:22:52.000 You don't play boxing, man.

01:22:53.000 You don't play MMA. It's your life.

01:22:56.000 It's interesting, too, that Ali...

01:22:58.000 I always like to watch that fight with Jerry Quarry because it was after three years off.

01:23:05.000 Yeah, man.

01:23:06.000 And you see his body looks different.

01:23:07.000 It just looks softer.

01:23:09.000 If you see Ali versus Cleveland Williams, and then you see Ali three years later, after all that time off, he just doesn't look the same.

01:23:16.000 He was never really the same again.

01:23:17.000 He wasn't.

01:23:18.000 But you think about why he did it.

01:23:20.000 Imagine having the Constitution to give away the prime of your fighting career to not do that.

01:23:28.000 It's very special.

01:23:29.000 Because they wanted him to fight in the Vietnam War.

01:23:31.000 He's like, this is a bullshit war.

01:23:32.000 This is bullshit.

01:23:33.000 He said none of them ever called me the damn word.

01:23:35.000 You know what I mean?

01:23:36.000 I'm not going over there to do that.

01:23:39.000 It's prime.

01:23:40.000 You know you got that window as a fighter, man.

01:23:42.000 It's like four to six years.

01:23:44.000 And half of it...

01:23:47.000 It's kind of amazing, too, that they did that, and then they gave it back to him.

01:23:50.000 They let him fight again.

01:23:51.000 I don't know what was the circumstances.

01:23:54.000 How did they reinstate his boxing license?

01:23:55.000 I actually don't remember.

01:23:56.000 I don't know either.

01:23:58.000 But I remember when he fought Frazier, I was like, man, I would have loved to see this fight three years ago.

01:24:02.000 Yeah, man.

01:24:02.000 Because he just was a different guy by then.

01:24:04.000 He was way too flat-footed.

01:24:06.000 It just was a different guy.

01:24:07.000 Yeah.

01:24:09.000 Well, Joe and Ali hated each other for real.

01:24:14.000 For real.

01:24:14.000 Yeah, because Ali was saying horrible shit.

01:24:17.000 Horrible shit.

01:24:18.000 Horrible shit.

01:24:19.000 Well, he's trying to fuck with his head, and that's how you do it.

01:24:21.000 It worked, man.

01:24:22.000 He was the original shit-talker, man.

01:24:23.000 When you think about it, it's like you see Conor, and you're like, that's Ali.

01:24:28.000 Oh, yeah.

01:24:28.000 You know what I mean?

01:24:29.000 For sure.

01:24:29.000 There's a lot of it.

01:24:30.000 And like Ric Flair.

01:24:31.000 It's like Ali and Ric Flair.

01:24:34.000 Yeah, there's a little bit of both of them there, too.

01:24:36.000 Well, you remember when Henry Cooper knocked down Ali?

01:24:39.000 That was like the biggest thing in the UK ever.

01:24:41.000 Heard him bad.

01:24:42.000 And then Angelo Dundee cut the gloves.

01:24:45.000 Yep.

01:24:45.000 I mean, if it wasn't for that move, Ali could have lost by stoppage in that fight.

01:24:51.000 Very easily.

01:24:52.000 He got fucking cracked in that fight.

01:24:55.000 Right on the fucking button.

01:24:56.000 And sat down.

01:24:57.000 He was on Queer Street.

01:24:58.000 Oh, 100%.

01:24:59.000 Yeah.

01:24:59.000 He had a house on Queer Street.

01:25:01.000 He was picking up the mail.

01:25:02.000 Here it is, right here.

01:25:03.000 Boom!

01:25:05.000 Let's watch that again.

01:25:06.000 Watch that again.

01:25:08.000 I mean, that is a fucking picture-perfect left hand.

01:25:12.000 I mean, look at him.

01:25:12.000 Right on the button.

01:25:13.000 He is staggering back to his corner.

01:25:15.000 And it happened, luckily for him, at the very end of the round.

01:25:19.000 He wasn't even Muhammad Ali back then, right?

01:25:21.000 This was Cassius Clay.

01:25:22.000 Correct.

01:25:23.000 So this is before he fought.

01:25:24.000 Was it before he fought Sonny Liston?

01:25:27.000 I want to say it was.

01:25:28.000 It was.

01:25:29.000 Yeah.

01:25:31.000 Ooh, man.

01:25:32.000 Who knows?

01:25:33.000 They cheated him, though.

01:25:35.000 Yeah, they did.

01:25:36.000 They cheated him.

01:25:37.000 It's a different world.

01:25:37.000 Oh, we gotta change gloves.

01:25:39.000 They gave him a long-ass time.

01:25:40.000 Oh, we gotta undo these laces.

01:25:41.000 Cut this tape.

01:25:43.000 Brilliant, though.

01:25:43.000 Yeah.

01:25:44.000 Wow, hey, Angelo Dundee.

01:25:45.000 He wasn't a newcomer.

01:25:47.000 No, he was not.

01:25:47.000 He knew what the fuck he was doing.

01:25:49.000 He was great, man.

01:25:50.000 Yeah.

01:25:50.000 My favorite stoppage of all Ali's fights is Cleveland Big Cat Williams because he hit him with these just welterweight combinations.

01:25:59.000 Oh, his hand?

01:25:59.000 Bing, bing, bing, bing.

01:26:00.000 He did it.

01:26:01.000 Bop, bop, bop, bop.

01:26:01.000 Yeah.

01:26:02.000 I mean, he was throwing...

01:26:03.000 Really, I never saw...

01:26:06.000 Anyone throw combinations, a heavyweight like that before.

01:26:09.000 He threw combinations like Ray Robinson.

01:26:11.000 And the fluidity of them, too.

01:26:13.000 Pull that fight up.

01:26:14.000 This was one of my all-time favorites, because Williams was a scary fucking dude, too.

01:26:18.000 He was a big puncher, and Ali was just light on his feet, dancing in front of him.

01:26:23.000 No one does that anymore.

01:26:25.000 Yeah, and Williams just kept pressing forward, pressing forward.

01:26:29.000 Williams was a big puncher, man.

01:26:31.000 Yeah, he could crack.

01:26:31.000 He just couldn't find Ali, and Ali was so loose in front of him.

01:26:35.000 I mean, look at that.

01:26:36.000 Jab to the body, go to the head.

01:26:38.000 Beautiful.

01:26:40.000 He's dancing on them.

01:26:41.000 Boom!

01:26:42.000 Check left hook, move around, and then once he started tuning them up...

01:26:47.000 The jab to the body and then back up top is beautiful, man.

01:26:50.000 Beautiful.

01:26:51.000 Oh man, yeah.

01:26:51.000 This is art.

01:26:52.000 This is art right here.

01:26:53.000 It's art because there was never a heavyweight that moved like this.

01:26:56.000 People have to realize this just didn't exist, man.

01:26:59.000 And rarely does exist.

01:27:01.000 The only guy who moves even remotely like this today is Tyson Fury.

01:27:07.000 Tyson Fury can move.

01:27:09.000 And he's huge.

01:27:10.000 That big motherfucker can dance.

01:27:11.000 Yeah, he can.

01:27:12.000 He dances, and he's six foot, what, nine or eight or some shit?

01:27:15.000 Six-eight, I think.

01:27:16.000 He's huge.

01:27:17.000 Yeah.

01:27:17.000 He gets clipped a little too much for me.

01:27:19.000 He definitely gets tagged.

01:27:20.000 Yeah.

01:27:21.000 He got tagged by Steve Cunningham from Philly and dropped.

01:27:25.000 That's the cruiserweight, right?

01:27:26.000 Yes, which was even greater.

01:27:27.000 I'm like, yo, his chin might not be all there.

01:27:29.000 Well, you know what?

01:27:30.000 Cunningham's a shorter guy, and sometimes for those really tall fighters, it's very difficult to punch down.

01:27:35.000 That's how Mike was getting over, because he was in the chest.

01:27:38.000 And he was real low.

01:27:39.000 Yeah, I mean, that head movement and the peekaboo that, you know, that Customato developed.

01:27:45.000 Put the end of that fight up so I could see the combinations that led to the stoppage.

01:27:52.000 See, once he had Williams in trouble, go big screen.

01:27:55.000 I mean, even there, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum.

01:27:57.000 Yeah.

01:27:57.000 Like, once Williams' face had been jabbed off...

01:28:01.000 And Joe, the craziest thing...

01:28:02.000 Beautiful.

01:28:03.000 The craziest thing about him is everyone historically has to sit down on their punches to get leverage on him, and he didn't.

01:28:09.000 Yeah.

01:28:09.000 He's dancing and...

01:28:11.000 Yeah.

01:28:11.000 Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam.

01:28:12.000 Well, he wasn't trying to knock you out with every punch.

01:28:15.000 He was just cracking you.

01:28:18.000 And when you're getting peppered, that's fucking rough to deal with.

01:28:23.000 It's frustrating.

01:28:25.000 In your head, you're like, if I touch this motherfucker, I'm going to hurt him, but you can't touch him.

01:28:28.000 And you just keep getting peppered, and eventually your legs start wobbling a little bit.

01:28:31.000 It's like trying to fight Willie Pep.

01:28:33.000 Yeah.

01:28:33.000 You know, he had the footwork of Willie Pepp in a heavyweight.

01:28:39.000 I'm fucking heard of, man.

01:28:41.000 That's another guy that people forgot about.

01:28:42.000 Willie Pepp was one of the rare guys that won a round without ever throwing a punch.

01:28:46.000 Yes, yes.

01:28:46.000 Like, what the fuck, man?

01:28:48.000 Unbelievable.

01:28:49.000 And a dago.

01:28:50.000 Yes.

01:28:51.000 Yes.

01:28:51.000 Indeed.

01:28:52.000 We had a lot of good ones back in the day.

01:28:54.000 Maybe not so much now, Joseph.

01:28:57.000 We had a run.

01:28:58.000 We had LaMotta.

01:28:59.000 We had Graziano.

01:29:01.000 Well, the community got established.

01:29:03.000 That's the problem.

01:29:04.000 People started doing well.

01:29:05.000 Exactly.

01:29:06.000 And then they get soft.

01:29:07.000 Exactly.

01:29:08.000 The last guy we had was Arturo Gatti.

01:29:10.000 To really rap.

01:29:11.000 Yeah.

01:29:12.000 To really rap.

01:29:13.000 Yeah.

01:29:15.000 Yeah, that's how it goes though, right?

01:29:17.000 The early immigrants are the ones who get shit on.

01:29:19.000 They're the ones who come up strong.

01:29:21.000 They're tough fighters.

01:29:22.000 And then, you know, now it's Cubans and Russians.

01:29:26.000 Yeah.

01:29:26.000 Because you come from that Russian amateur program, man.

01:29:30.000 Like, there's no fucking joke.

01:29:32.000 Right.

01:29:33.000 That's one of the reasons why I love Lomachenko.

01:29:36.000 That guy's an artist.

01:29:36.000 You talk about art, man?

01:29:38.000 Yeah.

01:29:39.000 I haven't seen anything...

01:29:43.000 Maybe 30 years I haven't seen anything like him.

01:29:45.000 I know.

01:29:46.000 The footwork.

01:29:47.000 It's ridiculous.

01:29:48.000 I've never seen someone...

01:29:50.000 He's in a position to not throw a punch and throws a beautiful three-punch combination.

01:29:55.000 I don't even know.

01:29:56.000 I mean, you know, they call him The Matrix or High Tech.

01:29:59.000 Two perfect names.

01:30:00.000 But, I mean, I've never seen anything like him.

01:30:02.000 Maybe...

01:30:04.000 Maybe a prime Roy.

01:30:06.000 Roy was different too.

01:30:08.000 Roy was technically awful.

01:30:10.000 He just had such reflexes.

01:30:12.000 When they went, that's when he got melted.

01:30:14.000 Because he never...

01:30:17.000 He didn't jab.

01:30:18.000 No, he didn't do anything right, bro.

01:30:20.000 A lead left hook.

01:30:21.000 A lead left hook, rights from weird angles.

01:30:23.000 And it worked because his reflexes were superhuman.

01:30:26.000 He was Superman.

01:30:27.000 And then as soon as they deteriorated a little bit, and in fighting, you can deteriorate a little bit in baseball.

01:30:34.000 You can deteriorate.

01:30:34.000 I think what got Roy, what really got Roy, in my opinion, I'm a giant Roy Jones Jr. fan.

01:30:39.000 He's maybe one of my all-time favorite fighters.

01:30:41.000 What really got Roy is when we went up to fight John Ruiz.

01:30:44.000 Yeah.

01:30:44.000 And then he went back down to fight Tarver.

01:30:46.000 Yeah.

01:30:46.000 He was depleted.

01:30:47.000 Depleted.

01:30:48.000 And I think when he went up to fight Ruiz, he might have had some Mexican supplements in his system.

01:30:53.000 Yeah.

01:30:53.000 Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

01:30:54.000 Sure.

01:30:55.000 Yeah.

01:30:55.000 I mean, he was like 200 plus pounds.

01:30:57.000 208 or something.

01:30:58.000 Jacked.

01:30:59.000 Looked good.

01:30:59.000 I think he should have retired after that win.

01:31:01.000 Well, he definitely should have consulted with an endocrinologist to try to figure out how his system was.

01:31:07.000 And then the weight cut down to 175 must have been brutal because he was smooth.

01:31:12.000 He looked like shit.

01:31:13.000 He lost all his muscle tone.

01:31:15.000 He looked like a guy.

01:31:17.000 And he was shredded in the 90s.

01:31:18.000 Exactly.

01:31:19.000 Yeah.

01:31:19.000 He looked like a guy whose system had been shut down.

01:31:23.000 The thing that these guys maybe don't recognize, if they take some shit, or even if you just cut too much weight, your body stops producing hormones.

01:31:33.000 Sure.

01:31:33.000 Your body's all fucked up.

01:31:34.000 You're on your way to dying.

01:31:36.000 Your body's telling you what the fuck are you doing to me.

01:31:39.000 So if he was 200 plus pounds when he fought Ruiz, then he has to cut down to 175. Yeah, 30 pounds.

01:31:46.000 Yeah, and who knows how sophisticated his methods were?

01:31:49.000 I mean, some fighters today are amazing at doing that.

01:31:52.000 Yeah.

01:31:52.000 I mean, they know how to do it correctly.

01:31:54.000 They know how to rehydrate correctly.

01:31:56.000 Yeah.

01:31:56.000 And boxing at least has the benefit of not having USADA in place like the UFC does.

01:32:03.000 The UFC has a real problem with a lack of IVs and these guys can't rehydrate correctly or the way that they want to.

01:32:12.000 It's dangerous.

01:32:13.000 It is dangerous, but in their defense, it's also a way that they can detect whether or not someone's cheating.

01:32:20.000 Because when they're using IVs, you can mask a lot of shit.

01:32:23.000 Right.

01:32:24.000 Yeah, I didn't think about that.

01:32:25.000 Yeah, that's why they do it.

01:32:26.000 Yeah, they just won't let you do it.

01:32:28.000 So, I don't know what happened with Roy when he did it, but you can't take anything away from Tarver either, because Tarver almost beat Roy the first time they fought.

01:32:37.000 The first time, yeah.

01:32:38.000 But then fucked him up the second fight.

01:32:40.000 Oh, he fucking flew his head.

01:32:41.000 Yeah.

01:32:41.000 And the famous words, any excuses tonight, Roy?

01:32:44.000 Yeah, right before they fight, he said that to me.

01:32:45.000 I never saw anything like that.

01:32:47.000 He was so confident.

01:32:48.000 Yeah.

01:32:48.000 I don't think he gets his due either.

01:32:50.000 No, he doesn't.

01:32:51.000 He doesn't.

01:32:51.000 He had some great wins.

01:32:53.000 Yeah.

01:32:54.000 He had some great wins.

01:32:55.000 He's still at it too, right?

01:32:57.000 Yeah, at heavyweight.

01:32:58.000 Isn't he like 45 or something like that?

01:32:59.000 46, 47. But he got popped.

01:33:01.000 For steroids.

01:33:02.000 Yeah.

01:33:03.000 Well, duh.

01:33:05.000 If you're 45 and you're still looking good, there's something going on.

01:33:08.000 The only person I truly believe, and I realize you'll think I'm biased because of where I'm from, but I don't think Bernard ever did anything.

01:33:16.000 I don't think he did anything either.

01:33:17.000 Bernard just lives clean.

01:33:18.000 I've seen him order grilled chicken and get chicken that was fried by accident and peel the fry off of it rather than just go, oh, just this once I'll do it.

01:33:29.000 Watched him take it off.

01:33:31.000 You know what I mean?

01:33:32.000 To not eat...

01:33:34.000 Just insane dietary in the gym.

01:33:38.000 I agree.

01:33:39.000 But the Joe Smith fight was sad to watch.

01:33:42.000 Of course.

01:33:43.000 The Kovalev fight was sad to watch.

01:33:45.000 I was there, man.

01:33:46.000 I was ringside, and I love Kovalev.

01:33:49.000 Yeah.

01:33:49.000 But...

01:33:50.000 That's a Philly legend.

01:33:52.000 Like, ah, man, this is rough.

01:33:54.000 Well, it's crazy to see how deep into his career he was still successful.

01:33:58.000 Like, I wrote a blog article about the Kelly Pavlik fight.

01:34:02.000 Because I'm like, I don't remember how old he was at the time, but everybody had already written him off.

01:34:06.000 Oh, my brother and I were there like, Pavlik's gonna beat the dog shit out of Bernard.

01:34:10.000 And he gave him a fucking lesson.

01:34:12.000 Boxing lesson.

01:34:13.000 He put on a clinic.

01:34:14.000 Well, people have to realize he was technically past his prime when he fucked up Tito Trent.

01:34:18.000 He was 36. It was 36 in 2001. That was two weeks after 9-11, that fight, and he was 36 then.

01:34:26.000 How crazy is that?

01:34:27.000 Yeah.

01:34:28.000 How old was he when he fought Joe Smith?

01:34:29.000 50?

01:34:30.000 50. Maybe 51. Definitely 50. Crazy.

01:34:35.000 So he was...

01:34:36.000 I'd say he lasted 15 years longer than the average guy, you know?

01:34:42.000 Well, how about when he came back and boxed Roy Jr.?

01:34:44.000 Yeah.

01:34:45.000 Well, when Roy beat him the first time, he was beating him with all those reflexes.

01:34:49.000 And then when the reflexes slid off, he clearly out-boxed Roy in the second fight with just fundamentals, perfect mechanics.

01:34:56.000 Because Roy didn't have them.

01:34:57.000 He didn't have them.

01:34:58.000 Yeah.

01:34:58.000 He was relying on what was once there.

01:35:00.000 But it wasn't.

01:35:01.000 He was a shell of his former self.

01:35:04.000 Well, it was also the Glenn Johnson fight.

01:35:06.000 It was a scary knockout.

01:35:07.000 He was on Queer Street.

01:35:08.000 Well, he was just flatlined and astral traveling.

01:35:11.000 After he got knocked out by Tarver, then there was not that much time in between those two fights.

01:35:17.000 No, no.

01:35:18.000 It was the next fight.

01:35:19.000 Yeah.

01:35:20.000 And those knockouts where...

01:35:23.000 You're out on your feet before you hit the ground, then your head hits the canvas, which is two shots, man.

01:35:28.000 And he was stiffened up.

01:35:30.000 It was sad to watch.

01:35:31.000 It was.

01:35:32.000 I thought that was going to be the end.

01:35:34.000 Me too.

01:35:34.000 And then he started fighting in Russia, getting sanctioned over there.

01:35:38.000 He's a Russian citizen.

01:35:39.000 Yes, man.

01:35:41.000 Bizarro world.

01:35:41.000 Russian pussy involved.

01:35:44.000 He's got to have some toto over there, man, to do that.

01:35:47.000 When you're talking about Larry Holmes, I looked up his Wikipedia.

01:35:49.000 His last fight was in 2002 against Butterbean.

01:35:52.000 He was 51 or so.

01:35:54.000 And he put it on Butterbean.

01:35:57.000 10 round fight.

01:35:58.000 That's crazy.

01:35:59.000 And Butterbean can crack.

01:36:01.000 That big motherfucker hit hard.

01:36:03.000 Hard.

01:36:04.000 But Larry just, that snake, that snake of a jab.

01:36:07.000 You're not getting through that.

01:36:09.000 Yeah, pop.

01:36:09.000 Every time he tries to come in, bang, bang.

01:36:11.000 Remember that?

01:36:11.000 When dudes would wear those goldenpalace.com things in his back?

01:36:14.000 Yes, Bernard was the first person he did in the Tito fight, remember?

01:36:16.000 Was that the first?

01:36:17.000 Yeah.

01:36:18.000 Yeah, that was so weird.

01:36:19.000 Someone did it in the UFC, too.

01:36:21.000 They wore that shit on their back.

01:36:23.000 It's odd.

01:36:24.000 Just put it on your trunks or you're gonna do it, I guess.

01:36:26.000 Well, you don't get as much money.

01:36:29.000 I know Bernard got 50k to put it on his back and he bet it on himself against Tito.

01:36:34.000 Really?

01:36:35.000 Yeah.

01:36:35.000 And you know he was a huge underdog.

01:36:38.000 Everyone thought Tito was gonna whoop his ass.

01:36:40.000 Everyone.

01:36:41.000 Everyone.

01:36:43.000 I was jumping off my brother's couch when that happened.

01:36:47.000 Yeah, he fucked him up.

01:36:48.000 Yeah, man.

01:36:49.000 Yeah, Bernard was a special athlete.

01:36:51.000 He really was.

01:36:51.000 Absolutely.

01:36:52.000 Special fight.

01:36:53.000 All-time great.

01:36:54.000 For sure.

01:36:54.000 Yeah.

01:36:55.000 Definitely.

01:36:55.000 Yeah.

01:36:56.000 And it was interesting because I used to watch him when he was in his 30s and he would complain about crooked promoters and all these things.

01:37:02.000 Yeah.

01:37:03.000 And my thought was, man, it's too bad this guy missed his prime.

01:37:06.000 Right.

01:37:06.000 And then he did what he did.

01:37:07.000 And then he did what he did after that.

01:37:09.000 After that, yeah.

01:37:10.000 Because he was in jail for strong-arm robbery and got out and kind of wallowed in obscurity.

01:37:16.000 And then his shot was that Roy fight.

01:37:19.000 And we were like, ah, you got your shot.

01:37:21.000 I guess that's it.

01:37:22.000 It just got better.

01:37:24.000 Better with age.

01:37:26.000 It's like the rarest thing in anything.

01:37:28.000 Well, the discipline that he had.

01:37:30.000 That's what it is.

01:37:31.000 It's extraordinary discipline and his mindset.

01:37:34.000 It should be a lesson to everyone.

01:37:37.000 The discipline and dedication to whatever you want to do can be achieved through that.

01:37:44.000 And he's still in good shape.

01:37:46.000 Amazing shape.

01:37:46.000 That's the other thing.

01:37:47.000 He doesn't balloon up.

01:37:48.000 No, never.

01:37:49.000 Never.

01:37:50.000 I see him at the fights.

01:37:51.000 He's still the same.

01:37:53.000 Oscar's chubby now.

01:37:55.000 But I don't blame those dudes.

01:37:57.000 When Duran got really big, that dude was cutting when he was trying to make 135 and all that.

01:38:03.000 He just kept going up because he liked to eat.

01:38:05.000 When he fought at Ram Barkley at 168, I missed a dude who turned pro at 135. Well, I remember when he fucked up Davey Moore.

01:38:12.000 I was like, whoa!

01:38:13.000 That was unreal, man.

01:38:14.000 I was like, what is this?

01:38:15.000 Everybody thought Davey Moore, this young lion that's going to destroy this old legend.

01:38:20.000 Roberto thumbed him.

01:38:21.000 Duran's in my top five all time.

01:38:23.000 Oh, yeah.

01:38:24.000 Any weight class, top five.

01:38:26.000 Yeah.

01:38:26.000 Well, I always tell people if you really want to watch Roberto, you got to watch the lightweight Roberto.

01:38:30.000 Well...

01:38:30.000 Before I even went to fight Leonard.

01:38:32.000 The black and white fights.

01:38:33.000 Yeah.

01:38:33.000 Because people...

01:38:34.000 Ken Buchanan.

01:38:34.000 Most...

01:38:35.000 Right.

01:38:36.000 Ken Buchanan.

01:38:36.000 Oh, that's beautiful.

01:38:37.000 Most people in America think of Duran from like Sugar Ray on.

01:38:41.000 Yeah.

01:38:42.000 I'm like, you want to see art.

01:38:43.000 Yeah.

01:38:44.000 And...

01:38:45.000 Just subtle shit on the inside that he was doing before Chavez.

01:38:49.000 That little subtle shit on the inside and picking off shots that people don't know as defense.

01:38:54.000 He was eating none of those shots on the inside and then banging the body and all of that.

01:38:59.000 Those fights were art.

01:39:00.000 Yes, he was great at 40, 47, 54, 60. He did amazing things.

01:39:05.000 And again, that's why he's in my top five.

01:39:06.000 But you're right.

01:39:07.000 If people want to see Duran, watch those fights at Lightweight.

01:39:11.000 Yeah, he came up in weight just to get paid.

01:39:13.000 Of course.

01:39:14.000 I mean, he could have stayed at lightweight for a long time.

01:39:15.000 Of course, and just dominated a bit.

01:39:17.000 I still, even now, think he's the best lightweight ever.

01:39:20.000 Wow.

01:39:20.000 I don't think there's any lightweight that was better.

01:39:22.000 Well, he was shredded back then.

01:39:24.000 Yes.

01:39:25.000 With that fucking dark goatee.

01:39:27.000 He looked like the devil.

01:39:28.000 I said, once I'm on a post, I said, if I'm in a dark alley, I'm more scared of Duran than Tyson.

01:39:34.000 Really?

01:39:35.000 Yes.

01:39:37.000 All day.

01:39:38.000 That motherfucker will do some shit to us that I don't know Mike's capable of.

01:39:43.000 There was an interview where they went to see him in Panama, and he picked up a cat by the tail and smashed it against a brick wall.

01:39:50.000 Yeah, okay.

01:39:51.000 I don't want to see that guy in an alley.

01:39:53.000 Yeah, and the interviewer was like, what?

01:39:56.000 Yeah.

01:39:57.000 He just grabbed a cat and chucked it against a wall.

01:40:00.000 Look, man.

01:40:01.000 I mean, look.

01:40:03.000 There's a darkness to that.

01:40:05.000 Yeah.

01:40:06.000 You're a couple sandwiches short of a picnic if you're doing that.

01:40:09.000 Well, I mean, you've got to think about a guy growing up in Panama when he did...

01:40:15.000 You're fighting for your life.

01:40:17.000 No rugs, no floor, mud.

01:40:20.000 That's another level of poverty that we don't get.

01:40:26.000 The very first thing you said in this interview, well, we were born in America.

01:40:30.000 We already had that.

01:40:32.000 One step above all these, you know what I mean?

01:40:34.000 You're talking about Castro's Cuba.

01:40:37.000 He won't let those amateurs leave, bro.

01:40:39.000 Rigondia had to escape.

01:40:41.000 All those dudes had to escape.

01:40:43.000 Arislandi Lara, his family's there, bro.

01:40:46.000 These dudes leave their family on a fucking Not a boat, on a fucking raft.

01:40:51.000 Because Castro's like, no, we want to build the amateur program.

01:40:54.000 That's why Ringgandia, he's got dudes in like two Olympics.

01:40:58.000 You try to make it to one and then go pro and he won't let them.

01:41:01.000 The program, I don't know if his son, it seems like...

01:41:06.000 They're a little different now.

01:41:07.000 There's a shift culturally there now?

01:41:08.000 They let Yoel Romero come back.

01:41:10.000 Yeah.

01:41:10.000 Yoel Romero went back and he was hanging out there, but he said it was very tense.

01:41:14.000 Like, you don't talk, you don't say nothing.

01:41:16.000 Really?

01:41:17.000 He's like, yeah.

01:41:18.000 He goes, because everybody's jealous.

01:41:19.000 They're all mad that you get to come back and forth.

01:41:22.000 Because, you know, Yoel Romero, top UFC fighter, he went back.

01:41:25.000 Yeah.

01:41:26.000 I wouldn't go back.

01:41:28.000 I wouldn't go back.

01:41:29.000 Not if I had the life I had here.

01:41:31.000 You know what I mean?

01:41:32.000 Being a top guy and getting paydays.

01:41:35.000 I understand why he went back.

01:41:38.000 Of course I understand why.

01:41:39.000 You know what I mean?

01:41:40.000 But if me and you go to Italy knowing we might not come back here, look, they can have it.

01:41:44.000 Yeah, they can have it.

01:41:45.000 I got pictures.

01:41:47.000 There you go.

01:41:48.000 I got family and we got WhatsApp and shit like that.

01:41:51.000 Whatever.

01:41:52.000 Yeah, I'm not interested in going anywhere.

01:41:53.000 I can't come back.

01:41:54.000 No, man.

01:41:55.000 Yeah.

01:41:56.000 But I just don't think we'll ever understand what it's like to be essentially a prisoner in a communist dictatorship.

01:42:02.000 Absolutely.

01:42:03.000 And to grow up through the amateur program.

01:42:04.000 And when Yoel Romero was on the podcast, Joey Diaz was translating for him.

01:42:08.000 It was beautiful.

01:42:08.000 And he was explaining what life is like in these amateur programs.

01:42:13.000 He's like, you are sharing time with 10 other people that want your spot.

01:42:17.000 Yeah.

01:42:18.000 And that's what you're doing all day long.

01:42:19.000 You're training with 10 other people.

01:42:21.000 That's all those kids do, man.

01:42:22.000 That's all they do.

01:42:23.000 It's all they know.

01:42:25.000 And you think about...

01:42:28.000 There's no scenario where I'm jumping in shark-infested waters on a fucking raft.

01:42:32.000 And if you're driven to do that...

01:42:36.000 Whatever drives you to do that must be fucking heavy, man.

01:42:39.000 And of course, him telling you that allowed you into the mind of that fighter.

01:42:46.000 That's a very rare experience that you had, that he shared that.

01:42:50.000 Because a lot of these dudes don't get to tell their story, you know what I mean?

01:42:52.000 Of what it was like, and the amateur program, being stuck there, being a prisoner.

01:42:58.000 Once these dudes get out, some of them, there'll be Olympic Games in, say, Europe, and they'll escape from there.

01:43:07.000 They'll just dart after the fight.

01:43:09.000 That's what happened with Yoel.

01:43:10.000 He escaped in Germany.

01:43:12.000 Okay, yeah.

01:43:13.000 A couple people did the same thing, like Russia, wherever they were at for games, and got the fuck out.

01:43:19.000 I mean, that...

01:43:22.000 Him getting in the ring after going through that is cake.

01:43:27.000 You know what I mean?

01:43:29.000 He's living training in a gym and sleeping on a bed with sheets.

01:43:36.000 It's like, this is cake.

01:43:37.000 That's the shit we don't appreciate when I was talking about being a negative person.

01:43:42.000 He was talking about in the amateur program, if you do well, if you're at the top, you get three meals a day.

01:43:47.000 If you don't do so well, you get two.

01:43:50.000 Like you're literally fighting for your ability to eat.

01:43:54.000 It's insane.

01:43:55.000 Like we don't, we can't understand that.

01:43:57.000 No, man.

01:43:58.000 Not on any level.

01:43:59.000 No.

01:43:59.000 I mean, imagine that's all you've ever known too.

01:44:02.000 Of course.

01:44:03.000 And then you see these slobs in America complaining.

01:44:06.000 Yes.

01:44:07.000 You know?

01:44:08.000 That's how I... When I started seeing shit, some of the places in Eastern Europe that weren't part of the union yet and in Squala and two-year-olds asking me for money, I'm like, yo, man, get your shit together, meaning me.

01:44:22.000 Right.

01:44:22.000 Yo, get your way of thinking, change it, because this is this kid's reality.

01:44:29.000 Yeah.

01:44:29.000 She's a two-year-old girl.

01:44:31.000 Her mom's telling her to come over, you know, asking me for euro.

01:44:35.000 Yeah.

01:44:35.000 That's...

01:44:36.000 That's a game changer.

01:44:37.000 And if that doesn't change you, I don't know, man.

01:44:43.000 You're off.

01:44:44.000 The biggest mindfuck is that if you make $35,000, you're in the 1% of the world.

01:44:49.000 When people talk about 1%, as you think about people with yachts and private jets and fucking diamond rings.

01:44:56.000 Nope.

01:44:57.000 1% is $35,000 a year for the world.

01:45:01.000 Yeah, man.

01:45:02.000 Yeah, that's sobering.

01:45:04.000 That's scary.

01:45:05.000 Yeah.

01:45:06.000 When you travel a lot, like where's your favorite places to go?

01:45:08.000 I know you do.

01:45:09.000 Europe.

01:45:10.000 You travel all over the place, Tori.

01:45:13.000 I love Scandinavia.

01:45:15.000 Really?

01:45:15.000 Why's that?

01:45:16.000 I don't know.

01:45:17.000 I hate the heat, bro.

01:45:19.000 Oh, do you?

01:45:19.000 Yeah, I'm like one of those dudes with the air conditions on 24 hours and it's 30 degrees.

01:45:26.000 It's mega clean, too.

01:45:28.000 It's super clean.

01:45:29.000 It looks fake.

01:45:31.000 It looks like a movie set.

01:45:34.000 Really?

01:45:34.000 Yeah, but the crowds are crazy.

01:45:36.000 I mean, I'm from Italy, so of course I love that.

01:45:39.000 Australia was incredible, but I almost had a nervous breakdown on the flight.

01:45:42.000 Oh, because it's too long?

01:45:44.000 Bro...

01:45:45.000 Bro.

01:45:46.000 It's a flight and a half, man.

01:45:47.000 Bro, it's five or six hours from Philly, and then you fly out of LA Acton with another 17. Is it a 17 to Australia?

01:45:55.000 If you leave from Philly, it's 22. Right.

01:45:59.000 That's a long way to go.

01:46:00.000 Look, man.

01:46:01.000 Look, man.

01:46:01.000 How much is it if you go the other way?

01:46:04.000 On the way home, we were the farthest point in Australia.

01:46:11.000 So the flight in Australia was like six hours.

01:46:15.000 So from the time I texted my mom, mom, I'm leaving to come home to Philadelphia, I got home 36 hours later.

01:46:23.000 Ooh.

01:46:26.000 So they offer me constantly to come back.

01:46:29.000 And, you know, this is what we do for a living.

01:46:32.000 We go places.

01:46:33.000 And I'm like, yo, man, that flight, nervous breakdown.

01:46:37.000 You have to decide what's more important, money or your mental stability.

01:46:42.000 And I'm already nuttier than squirrel shit, so I don't need...

01:46:47.000 I don't need anything to push me any further than it's already what's going on in between my ears.

01:46:52.000 Thailand is a similar thing.

01:46:54.000 It's like 14 and then another 5. I think it was like 11 to go to Europe.

01:47:01.000 Or where did we go?

01:47:02.000 I think we went to Taiwan first.

01:47:07.000 And then it was another like five or something.

01:47:10.000 But by the time you're back, you're so confused.

01:47:14.000 It took me two solid weeks before I started sleeping at night again.

01:47:17.000 I think it took me three.

01:47:18.000 I'd wake up like two hours later, I'd go to bed, tired as fuck.

01:47:23.000 Wake up two hours later, wide awake.

01:47:25.000 It was two in the morning.

01:47:26.000 I'm like, what is this?

01:47:27.000 Your whole circadian rhythms.

01:47:30.000 Jacked.

01:47:30.000 Fucked.

01:47:31.000 It takes forever to get back.

01:47:32.000 Yeah, man.

01:47:33.000 Took me two or three weeks, too.

01:47:34.000 And we fucked up.

01:47:35.000 My family, we did two trips in the summer.

01:47:38.000 We went to Thailand, and then we took two weeks off, and then we went to Italy.

01:47:41.000 So it was just a double bonker.

01:47:44.000 So was it enough for you to be like, I'm not going back?

01:47:46.000 No!

01:47:47.000 No, I like it.

01:47:49.000 I've learned how to travel.

01:47:50.000 I really like taking my kids places too.

01:47:53.000 I really like the fact that I like to expose them to places like Thailand and Italy and take them to different places.

01:48:01.000 I like exposing them to Costa Rica.

01:48:05.000 Well, we didn't get to do that.

01:48:06.000 So the fact that you have the ability to do that, it's beautiful for them.

01:48:11.000 That's cool shit to say that they did that.

01:48:15.000 I'm enjoying it more than I ever thought I would.

01:48:17.000 Being a parent to me is, it's not just a beautiful thing to watch these little people that I love so much grow and have fun and be happy.

01:48:25.000 But it's also, I'm getting to experience the world through their eyes.

01:48:29.000 Watch them ride an elephant in Thailand.

01:48:31.000 Watch them, you know, watch them zipline with me in Costa Rica.

01:48:35.000 We're laughing together on the beach.

01:48:37.000 That's heavy, man.

01:48:37.000 It's intense, man.

01:48:39.000 It is.

01:48:39.000 It really is.

01:48:40.000 It's intense and it's made me shift My values and shift how I think about just experiencing things.

01:48:47.000 Yeah.

01:48:48.000 It's a heavy thing, man.

01:48:49.000 They change you in ways you didn't think were possible.

01:48:53.000 Yeah.

01:48:54.000 You know?

01:48:55.000 Empathy.

01:48:56.000 But like you said, seeing things through their eyes, that's like the coolest thing, you know what I mean?

01:49:01.000 Because we didn't have that.

01:49:02.000 Yeah, it's weird.

01:49:03.000 It's weird, man.

01:49:04.000 It makes you feel super vulnerable too, you know?

01:49:07.000 Like you were talking about your mom, like worrying about your mom.

01:49:10.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:49:10.000 You worry about people that you care about.

01:49:12.000 It's one of the things that's like a catch-22.

01:49:14.000 It's like if you're on your own, you don't have to worry about nobody.

01:49:17.000 You don't give a fuck about nothing.

01:49:18.000 Right.

01:49:18.000 But you also don't have anything.

01:49:20.000 Right.

01:49:20.000 So when you have all these people that you love and you care about so much, then you worry about losing them.

01:49:26.000 It's a double-edged sword, man.

01:49:28.000 It's heavy.

01:49:28.000 Yeah, because when I was alone just wilding, it's like I was behaving that way because I had nothing.

01:49:34.000 Right.

01:49:34.000 So you're looking for something.

01:49:36.000 Then you find it, and all you do is worry about losing it.

01:49:38.000 Yeah.

01:49:39.000 But it goes back to what we were talking about earlier.

01:49:42.000 If you're not scared a little, if you're not nervous a little, if you don't get a little bit of anxiety, well, you're not paying attention.

01:49:50.000 Right.

01:49:51.000 You're not living your life.

01:49:52.000 No, you're not seeing anything.

01:49:53.000 You're not putting yourself out there.

01:49:55.000 Right.

01:49:55.000 If you're putting yourself out there, you're going to have some anxiety.

01:49:58.000 You're going to have some fear.

01:49:59.000 You're going to have some worries.

01:50:00.000 Well, those people that don't have that don't put themselves out there.

01:50:03.000 Exactly.

01:50:03.000 They live in a bubble and they're comfortable in that bubble.

01:50:06.000 They live gray and dry.

01:50:07.000 Yes.

01:50:08.000 It's that Nietzsche question.

01:50:10.000 Would you rather live your life in a series of tremendous highs and tremendous lows or just...

01:50:15.000 Flatlining.

01:50:16.000 Flatlining.

01:50:16.000 These people think flatlining, that square life is like, yo...

01:50:21.000 You know, 2.5 kids in a house.

01:50:23.000 Like, this is it.

01:50:23.000 I'm like, no, that's not it, man.

01:50:25.000 It's not it.

01:50:25.000 I mean, there's nothing wrong with having 2.5 kids in a house, but go do some shit.

01:50:29.000 No, that's what I meant.

01:50:30.000 Take your kids.

01:50:30.000 Yeah, that's what I meant.

01:50:31.000 Go to the woods.

01:50:32.000 Go rafting.

01:50:33.000 Sure.

01:50:34.000 You know?

01:50:34.000 Yeah, get something done, man.

01:50:36.000 We went whitewater rafting last year in Montana.

01:50:39.000 That was shit, too.

01:50:40.000 Wow.

01:50:41.000 With the kids?

01:50:41.000 Yeah, man.

01:50:43.000 Glacier River, you know, fucking freezing cold water, bears everywhere and shit.

01:50:48.000 Wow.

01:50:48.000 Nuts, man.

01:50:49.000 Wow.

01:50:49.000 You're going rafting down this river and you're seeing trout jump and it's like just getting to see them experience shit.

01:50:58.000 Like we took them to Yellowstone.

01:51:00.000 They got to see bison, you know, wild bison up close.

01:51:03.000 Yeah, so their minds are just blown by it.

01:51:04.000 I just want them to see as much shit as I can show them.

01:51:07.000 That's great, man.

01:51:08.000 I want them to see.

01:51:09.000 I mean, every few months, my wife and I sit down and talk like, what are we going to do this summer?

01:51:14.000 Where are we going to take them?

01:51:15.000 This year was Thailand.

01:51:16.000 Where are we going to go next year?

01:51:17.000 We've got to take them somewhere else weird.

01:51:19.000 God bless.

01:51:19.000 Yeah.

01:51:20.000 It's fun, man.

01:51:21.000 It's fascinating.

01:51:23.000 It's a weird life education that I didn't anticipate.

01:51:29.000 Of course.

01:51:30.000 You build it, man.

01:51:31.000 You deserve it.

01:51:33.000 Because you did it your way.

01:51:35.000 And that's punk rock as fuck.

01:51:37.000 Punk rock as fuck.

01:51:38.000 That's funny.

01:51:40.000 Yeah.

01:51:41.000 When you're traveling, how many guys are you bringing with you?

01:51:45.000 It's usually, so there's three of us on stage, like me rhyming, a hype man, and a DJ, and then a tour manager, and a merch guy.

01:51:55.000 So usually five.

01:51:57.000 That's a good thing because comics a lot of times travel by themselves.

01:52:01.000 Right.

01:52:01.000 They get depressed.

01:52:03.000 Well, I know like Artie would talk about it a lot, like just being alone in a hotel room in fucking Schenectady.

01:52:12.000 I figured that shit out a long time ago, though.

01:52:15.000 I started bringing my friends with me.

01:52:16.000 Because in promoters or clubs, they wouldn't pay for the friend.

01:52:21.000 So I would just say, look, give me a flat rate.

01:52:24.000 I'll pay my opening act.

01:52:26.000 I'll pay their airfare.

01:52:27.000 I'll pay their hotel.

01:52:28.000 I'd rather lose money.

01:52:29.000 On my earlier tours, the promoters didn't care about opening acts.

01:52:35.000 And I was paying my homeboys to be the opening acts, just like you.

01:52:38.000 What I was getting paid, I was handing it to them.

01:52:42.000 Same thing.

01:52:43.000 But it's a better experience.

01:52:44.000 It is, because you're keeping yourself sane.

01:52:46.000 Yeah, and you have family on the road.

01:52:47.000 Like, if I go on the road with Joey or Ari or any of those guys, we're family.

01:52:51.000 Tony, we're having a good time.

01:52:53.000 Sure.

01:52:53.000 You know, it's like, wherever we are, like, what time do you guys want to eat?

01:52:56.000 Let's eat at lunch.

01:52:56.000 Right.

01:52:57.000 Noon.

01:52:57.000 Okay, I'll meet you guys down there.

01:52:58.000 Yeah, that's how we are.

01:52:59.000 You guys want to go to the gym?

01:53:00.000 All right, let's go hit the gym.

01:53:00.000 That's how we are.

01:53:02.000 Laughing and having a good time, but in the early days, I did a lot of those solo trips.

01:53:06.000 There's a weird, empty feeling you have.

01:53:08.000 Sure, man.

01:53:09.000 That's very dark.

01:53:10.000 Did you see that Louis episode that he did about traveling and he's alone?

01:53:17.000 It's a whole episode dedicated to what you just said, and it was very dark.

01:53:22.000 It was not humorous.

01:53:23.000 You gotta take friends with you.

01:53:24.000 I have friends to this day that don't do it that way.

01:53:27.000 They use local acts, and I'm like, man, don't do it.

01:53:30.000 Yeah, but then I'd have to pay for his airfare.

01:53:32.000 I'm like, pay the money!

01:53:34.000 Sure, man, sure.

01:53:35.000 I know you're gonna make less money that way, but you'll feel better.

01:53:39.000 There comes a time where those decisions, where you're doing things monetarily, You're making this decision based on financial and you have to worry about your mental stability more.

01:53:53.000 Yeah.

01:53:54.000 Whatever the opener would get, if it's five hundred, a grand, three grand, five, whatever it is, that's worth having family with you.

01:54:01.000 Not only that, I feel like your performance is going to be better.

01:54:04.000 Of course!

01:54:05.000 Because you're going to be with friends, you're going to have a good time, you're not worried about the show, you bring a funny guy to open up for you.

01:54:10.000 And you know he's good.

01:54:11.000 Yeah.

01:54:12.000 Yeah.

01:54:12.000 And then, so then more people will come to your next show.

01:54:15.000 Of course.

01:54:15.000 It's like, it's better for you financially.

01:54:17.000 It's a short-term investment for long-term gain.

01:54:20.000 Of course.

01:54:21.000 Of course.

01:54:21.000 That's what these people think.

01:54:22.000 They're Pennywise and Pound Foolish.

01:54:24.000 Yeah.

01:54:24.000 You know what I mean?

01:54:25.000 They don't understand it.

01:54:26.000 When, what you're doing, everyone's going to kill people.

01:54:30.000 And then it's going to be double the people next time.

01:54:32.000 Yeah.

01:54:32.000 You know what I mean?

01:54:33.000 Well, at least everybody's going to have a good time.

01:54:34.000 And you're not going to get out of there crazy.

01:54:37.000 When I come back Sunday morning, I might be tired, but at least I had a good time.

01:54:41.000 Sure.

01:54:41.000 I don't feel like I'm going to fucking shoot myself.

01:54:44.000 Absolutely.

01:54:45.000 Yeah.

01:54:46.000 That's the real problem with travel.

01:54:47.000 It's fucking depressing.

01:54:49.000 You know, one of the things I read about an interview with Bourdain after he died, I started reading a bunch of shit that he had...

01:54:58.000 It blindsided me.

01:54:59.000 I didn't see it coming.

01:55:00.000 And then after he died, I read a bunch of his stuff where he was talking about how intensely lonely it was when he was traveling.

01:55:08.000 And I knew he traveled with people that he cared about.

01:55:10.000 He traveled with people that he liked.

01:55:12.000 But I think just traveling 250 days a year, period, will fuck you up.

01:55:17.000 Absolutely.

01:55:18.000 I can't say that...

01:55:20.000 People being with me, I still don't feel lonely because there's a connection to home.

01:55:26.000 Once I separate from that, from home, from Philly, from my mom, all of that, once I'm separated from that reality...

01:55:37.000 I love having my friends around me and it makes it better, but it doesn't fix it.

01:55:41.000 There's still this sense of I'm out here alone.

01:55:45.000 And I can't make any sense out of that because I'm technically not alone.

01:55:52.000 So it doesn't make much sense.

01:55:55.000 You're not home though.

01:55:56.000 Right.

01:55:56.000 I read something where you were saying that this might be your last tour.

01:56:01.000 I don't know, man.

01:56:02.000 It's coming.

01:56:03.000 Yeah?

01:56:04.000 Yeah.

01:56:04.000 How old do you know?

01:56:05.000 I'll be 41 on October 5th.

01:56:08.000 And you're just getting tired of it?

01:56:10.000 It's draining me, man.

01:56:11.000 Forget the physical.

01:56:13.000 It's draining my spirit.

01:56:15.000 It's the anxiety before I'm leaving.

01:56:19.000 Say you get nervous like three days before you're leaving.

01:56:22.000 Now it's starting like two months before I'm leaving.

01:56:25.000 Really?

01:56:25.000 Yeah.

01:56:26.000 When you go out, how long do you go out for?

01:56:29.000 That's changed too.

01:56:30.000 I mean, I would go out for six weeks, 42 shows in a row before, you know, before.

01:56:35.000 Now I got like...

01:56:36.000 Two, two and a half weeks in me, then I'll come home.

01:56:39.000 When I come back from Cali, then I go to Europe.

01:56:44.000 But, you know, again, to say last tour, it's like, I don't want to fucking turn into Gene Simmons.

01:56:50.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:56:51.000 Where it's like, this is it, so come see me.

01:56:53.000 You're never going to see me again.

01:56:54.000 I'm not doing that.

01:56:55.000 That was in the 1980s they did that.

01:56:57.000 Yeah, in 83 or something.

01:56:59.000 I don't want to do that.

01:57:01.000 It's why I chose my words properly, where it was more like, You know, I'm getting run down and, you know, traveling is, again, it's no different than you.

01:57:13.000 It's beautiful being up on stage when people are laughing, you know, but getting there, the flights, the this, the that, the hotels, it's just, I don't, you know, it's something that you can never explain to someone who doesn't do it and why exactly you're tired.

01:57:28.000 Still, when you walk out on stage in Germany or some shit.

01:57:32.000 It all goes away.

01:57:32.000 And everybody goes crazy.

01:57:33.000 It all goes away, man.

01:57:35.000 Other side of the planet.

01:57:36.000 Other side of the planet.

01:57:38.000 It's still the most humbling thing in the world, because it's still in my head, like, now I'm a kid from Philly, you know?

01:57:42.000 Like, it was rhyming on street corners.

01:57:44.000 Ladies and gentlemen, Vinny Pass.

01:57:46.000 Yeah.

01:57:47.000 That could never...

01:57:49.000 It's crazy, right?

01:57:49.000 Never not feel great, you know?

01:57:51.000 I know.

01:57:51.000 It's...

01:57:52.000 I almost feel bad for people that will never experience that.

01:57:54.000 Sure, sure.

01:57:56.000 It's a mindfuck.

01:57:57.000 It's unreal.

01:57:59.000 It's like pinch yourself shit.

01:58:01.000 Yeah.

01:58:02.000 You know, you're like, how the fuck did that?

01:58:04.000 Sometimes you got to step back, you know?

01:58:06.000 I don't think it's people we do that enough.

01:58:08.000 Yeah.

01:58:08.000 You know, because we're living in the moment.

01:58:10.000 Like, even right now, like, I've been a fan of yours for a very long time.

01:58:15.000 And just to have this convo with you, It's beautiful.

01:58:20.000 And it's gonna be a mindfuck later.

01:58:24.000 After I think about it.

01:58:25.000 You know what I mean?

01:58:26.000 Because we're just talking like old friends now.

01:58:27.000 You know what I mean?

01:58:28.000 But it's like, I've been following your whole career.

01:58:31.000 You know what I mean?

01:58:32.000 And been a fan your whole career.

01:58:35.000 I still get weirded out when I meet people.

01:58:37.000 Of course.

01:58:38.000 It's weird.

01:58:38.000 Of course.

01:58:39.000 Known someone for a long time by watching their stuff or listening to their stuff.

01:58:42.000 And then you're right in front of them like, hey.

01:58:44.000 Yeah, man.

01:58:45.000 Yeah, I became friends with Bill Paxton because he was like, can I come to the show?

01:58:50.000 I'm a fan.

01:58:51.000 What?

01:58:51.000 That guy was great.

01:58:52.000 Oh, he was the best.

01:58:53.000 He was the best.

01:58:54.000 You know what I loved him in?

01:58:55.000 Remember that vampire movie?

01:58:57.000 Oh, shit.

01:58:57.000 What the fuck was that movie called?

01:58:59.000 I don't remember what that was called.

01:59:00.000 What was that?

01:59:01.000 God damn it.

01:59:02.000 Did you see the shit he directed, Frailty?

01:59:05.000 I did see that.

01:59:06.000 That was good.

01:59:07.000 That was very good.

01:59:08.000 Yeah, man.

01:59:08.000 That was creepy.

01:59:09.000 Very creepy.

01:59:10.000 Yeah.

01:59:10.000 What the fuck was that vampire movie?

01:59:13.000 Jamie's got it.

01:59:14.000 What is it, Jamie?

01:59:16.000 Near Dark.

01:59:16.000 That was a great...

01:59:18.000 That's one of the best vampire movies ever.

01:59:21.000 And one of the ones that people forgot about.

01:59:24.000 Jamie's like, this motherfucker.

01:59:27.000 He's a wizard.

01:59:27.000 Yo, man.

01:59:29.000 You're like not even finished sentences and shit.

01:59:31.000 He's on the ball.

01:59:32.000 Well, we've been working together a long time.

01:59:34.000 It's telepathic.

01:59:34.000 That's what's going on.

01:59:35.000 I can tell.

01:59:36.000 I can tell.

01:59:37.000 Much respect, man.

01:59:38.000 Paxton was in a gang of good movies, man.

01:59:40.000 Yeah, man.

01:59:41.000 He was great.

01:59:42.000 Bro, Chet.

01:59:42.000 Yeah.

01:59:43.000 You're stewed, buttwad.

01:59:45.000 Yeah.

01:59:46.000 Aliens.

01:59:47.000 Yes.

01:59:47.000 He was in Aliens, the second Alien movie.

01:59:49.000 Remember, he's in the first scene of Terminator.

01:59:51.000 He's the punk rock that takes his clothes, remember?

01:59:53.000 That's right.

01:59:54.000 Yeah.

01:59:55.000 Yeah, man.

01:59:56.000 Talented guy.

01:59:57.000 Very sad, man.

01:59:58.000 That guy went on fucking Good Morning America.

02:00:01.000 Yeah, he went on Good Morning America and bigged me up to, like, Kathy Lee.

02:00:05.000 Really?

02:00:05.000 She's like, I heard you're a hip-hop fan.

02:00:07.000 He's like, yeah, Jedi Mind Tricks.

02:00:08.000 I was like, what the fuck?

02:00:10.000 You want to talk about what the fuck?

02:00:11.000 You know what I mean?

02:00:13.000 That's amazing.

02:00:14.000 I got one sock on, my hair sticking up, and Bill Paxton saying my name on Good Morning America.

02:00:19.000 How old was he when he died?

02:00:21.000 I can't, 56?

02:00:21.000 I see he was only like 50-something.

02:00:23.000 Yeah, man, he was young.

02:00:24.000 Died of a stroke.

02:00:25.000 He was young.

02:00:26.000 Goddammit.

02:00:26.000 And not a dude who, like, he was in good shape and, you know, lived well.

02:00:32.000 62?

02:00:34.000 Fuck.

02:00:36.000 Stroke.

02:00:37.000 Jesus Christ.

02:00:39.000 And he had a young son, has a young son, you know, very young.

02:00:42.000 He's only 21 now, 22, you know, so that's...

02:00:46.000 Yeah.

02:00:47.000 You never know, man.

02:00:48.000 You do never know, yeah.

02:00:50.000 That's a hard life too, man, that movie star life.

02:00:52.000 Oh, poor baby, it's a movie star.

02:00:55.000 Yeah.

02:00:55.000 But those set days are rough, man.

02:00:58.000 16 hours a day.

02:00:59.000 16, 18 hours standing around.

02:01:01.000 Waiting, and then you gotta do it again the next day, and you're working six, seven days a week.

02:01:06.000 Rarely do you have a day off, because their budget is only a certain amount.

02:01:09.000 They gotta smash in all the filming.

02:01:11.000 So you're doing 42 days in a row or something.

02:01:13.000 Yeah, everybody's on everybody's nerves.

02:01:15.000 You're on top of people, and it's stressful and tense.

02:01:18.000 You ever hear the Christian Bale rant?

02:01:20.000 Yes, the fucking sound guy or the lighting guy was in his way.

02:01:23.000 You fucking amateur, man!

02:01:25.000 Losing it.

02:01:26.000 Yeah.

02:01:26.000 Loses his shit.

02:01:27.000 Yeah.

02:01:27.000 Well, he's an intense motherfucker, that guy.

02:01:29.000 He is.

02:01:30.000 Brilliant actor.

02:01:30.000 Yeah.

02:01:31.000 He's one of those I'll almost die for a part guys.

02:01:35.000 Definitely.

02:01:35.000 When he did the Dickie Eklund, the Mickey Ward shit, I think he almost died.

02:01:40.000 Well, and then that was the second time he did that.

02:01:42.000 The mechanic.

02:01:43.000 Yes.

02:01:43.000 The machinist.

02:01:44.000 The machinist.

02:01:45.000 That shit is brilliant.

02:01:46.000 It's not even a good movie.

02:01:48.000 That's the problem.

02:01:48.000 It's just a horror scene.

02:01:50.000 Yeah.

02:01:50.000 It's just a horror scene.

02:01:51.000 Just seeing him literally on death's door.

02:01:54.000 Yeah.

02:01:55.000 That's the brilliance in it.

02:01:56.000 I just don't understand people that are willing to do that.

02:01:59.000 I mean, just do something else, man.

02:02:02.000 Yeah, I'm not willing to do anything.

02:02:03.000 Do a role where you don't have to starve yourself, man.

02:02:07.000 Yeah, you had to have another script in front of you that day.

02:02:10.000 And that's the thing.

02:02:12.000 It's like, do that movie, and all that movie is known for is the fact that you almost died.

02:02:17.000 Yeah.

02:02:18.000 That's it.

02:02:19.000 Right.

02:02:20.000 Nobody's like, man, the machinist.

02:02:22.000 When Robert De Niro gained a shitload of weight for Raging Bull, he got in fantastic shape, played Jake LaMotta, was ripped, and then gained a fuckload of weight to play Jake as he was older.

02:02:37.000 You go, wow, that's some serious goddamn commitment.

02:02:41.000 And it's one of the best movies ever.

02:02:42.000 Yeah, that's the thing.

02:02:44.000 It's one of the best movies ever.

02:02:45.000 But if you do that, like Charlize Theron did that when she played Eileen Wuornos.

02:02:51.000 Yeah, that was another one.

02:02:53.000 And that was even more bold.

02:02:54.000 She's a beautiful woman.

02:02:56.000 So for her to get fat and disgusting like that, it's like, wow.

02:02:59.000 Yeah, and that movie was great.

02:03:00.000 It was a great movie.

02:03:01.000 It won the Oscar, right?

02:03:02.000 Or she did?

02:03:03.000 Yeah.

02:03:05.000 Uh, I think, yeah, she got gross, man.

02:03:07.000 Jeez.

02:03:07.000 Yeah.

02:03:08.000 That's a horror movie.

02:03:09.000 My friend Patty wrote and directed that.

02:03:11.000 Oh, really?

02:03:12.000 Yeah.

02:03:12.000 Wow.

02:03:12.000 Patty Jenkins in the house.

02:03:13.000 Wow.

02:03:14.000 Yeah.

02:03:14.000 That's crazy.

02:03:15.000 You think about how fucking smoking hot she is.

02:03:18.000 Yeah, man.

02:03:18.000 She got gross.

02:03:19.000 Got rid of her eyelashes, her eyebrows.

02:03:22.000 Everything.

02:03:23.000 Look at her with that Oscar.

02:03:24.000 Ooh, same person.

02:03:25.000 Hollow.

02:03:26.000 Yeah.

02:03:26.000 Jesus.

02:03:26.000 It makes you think, all these chubby, gross ladies, maybe just...

02:03:30.000 Maybe they just need a little...

02:03:31.000 Yeah.

02:03:32.000 A little motivation.

02:03:33.000 Yeah.

02:03:34.000 You look like Charlize Theron.

02:03:37.000 It's a tough craft, that acting.

02:03:40.000 It's one of those jobs where everybody wants to do it, but very few people can.

02:03:47.000 And when you do do it, it's such an unbelievably grueling grind.

02:03:54.000 You can only do it for so long.

02:03:55.000 And if you're a woman...

02:03:57.000 Man, you got just a few years in here, buddy.

02:03:59.000 Oh, your window is very tiny.

02:04:01.000 Especially if you're a hot woman.

02:04:02.000 Yeah.

02:04:03.000 There's a gang of those 22-year-old cupcakes coming up trying to take your spot.

02:04:07.000 Absolutely.

02:04:08.000 And they're just as crazy as you.

02:04:08.000 They can cry on cue.

02:04:10.000 And they will always be coming up.

02:04:11.000 Always.

02:04:12.000 Always.

02:04:13.000 Always bad parents out there making good actors.

02:04:15.000 Absolutely.

02:04:17.000 Making bad parental decisions and sending the kids to Hollywood.

02:04:20.000 I mean, that's what it is here.

02:04:22.000 There's a flood of...

02:04:23.000 I mean, how often do you spend time out here?

02:04:24.000 Pretty often.

02:04:25.000 A couple times a year.

02:04:26.000 I have a lot of, like, close friends out here.

02:04:28.000 It's a strange place.

02:04:29.000 It's a bizarro world.

02:04:30.000 Yeah.

02:04:31.000 Yeah.

02:04:31.000 And, like, Philly is not a showbiz hub.

02:04:35.000 No, at all.

02:04:35.000 But there's a lot of great showbiz, Kevin Hart, a lot of great bands, a lot of great music.

02:04:40.000 Of course.

02:04:40.000 Great stuff comes from Philly.

02:04:42.000 Yeah.

02:04:42.000 But it's not a showbiz hub.

02:04:43.000 It's not.

02:04:44.000 It's not.

02:04:44.000 I mean, we're 90 miles from New York, so that's like, you know, but not close enough.

02:04:49.000 But this is a showbiz hub.

02:04:50.000 Of course, yeah.

02:04:51.000 So this attracts all the weirdos.

02:04:52.000 I mean, every waiter is an aspiring actor, every bartender is an aspiring actor.

02:04:57.000 I still, through all the times I've been coming here, can't wrap my head around that.

02:05:02.000 Everyone's an aspiring something.

02:05:03.000 Everyone.

02:05:04.000 Yeah, that's what it is.

02:05:05.000 It's the whole place.

02:05:07.000 Well, the other thing is you get to know, like, I get to know people when they have kids.

02:05:11.000 Like, your kids become friends with their kids.

02:05:13.000 Sure.

02:05:13.000 And then you meet the parents.

02:05:14.000 You think the parents are normal.

02:05:15.000 And it turns out, no, you know, there were actors that gave it up and sells fucking computers or whatever.

02:05:22.000 Right, right.

02:05:23.000 It's like everyone had this dream to come out here.

02:05:26.000 Absolutely.

02:05:26.000 I think if you...

02:05:28.000 If you just took into account all showbiz aspirations in Southern California, you saw it on a map, like a little red light would go off wherever the showbiz aspirations were, it would be overwhelming, man.

02:05:40.000 It would be.

02:05:41.000 Whereas in places like Philly or Boston, where I'm from, you don't see much.

02:05:47.000 No.

02:05:48.000 Anyone with aspirations is sort of self-contained, and they do what's necessary.

02:05:58.000 I've always been intrigued because LA and New York are those places where everyone you ask isn't from there.

02:06:06.000 You know what I mean?

02:06:07.000 The girl walking down the street in Manhattan is from Iowa.

02:06:11.000 Right.

02:06:12.000 She wants to be a model or whatever.

02:06:13.000 And it's like, same thing out here.

02:06:15.000 Like, oh, I'm from, you know, from wherever.

02:06:17.000 Like, nobody's from here.

02:06:18.000 Yeah.

02:06:19.000 Well, not nobody, but, you know.

02:06:20.000 Very few.

02:06:20.000 Yeah.

02:06:21.000 Very few.

02:06:22.000 Yeah.

02:06:22.000 It's a total transient city.

02:06:24.000 You know, and New York is a weird one, too, because whenever I'm in New York, I go, I look at all these people, I go, okay, how do you afford this?

02:06:31.000 I just see a schmo walking down the street, and I'm like, yo, a closet here is like five grand a month, and it looks like you just walked out of a sewer like a chud.

02:06:41.000 I don't understand it.

02:06:42.000 I don't either.

02:06:43.000 And, you know, I've talked to people that lived there in the 90s and still live there today.

02:06:47.000 They're like, New York City used to be a lot of artists and a lot of weird people.

02:06:52.000 Especially downtown.

02:06:53.000 Yeah.

02:06:54.000 Now, it's all finance people.

02:06:56.000 Yeah.

02:06:56.000 It's just so gentrified.

02:06:57.000 It doesn't look like the New York that we used to see.

02:07:00.000 Gentrified's a fun name for white people, right?

02:07:02.000 It is.

02:07:02.000 That's what it is, right?

02:07:03.000 It is, sure.

02:07:04.000 It's happened in Philly, too.

02:07:05.000 Is it?

02:07:05.000 Yeah.

02:07:06.000 Whitey's bum-rushing places that I used to hang out with.

02:07:09.000 You had to speak Spanish to be there, and it was the hood.

02:07:11.000 And now it's like white people walking.

02:07:14.000 They look like they're in Weezer, walking little toy dogs.

02:07:17.000 It's a murder scene, man.

02:07:20.000 Well, that's a weird thing.

02:07:21.000 DC has that, too.

02:07:22.000 DC's weird in that the hood and the gentrified neighborhoods are like a block away from each other.

02:07:29.000 That's how Philly is, and these motherfuckers are going to walk one block the wrong way and be fucking beheaded.

02:07:37.000 But look, have at it, man, I guess.

02:07:39.000 How does that work?

02:07:41.000 People go there for some sort of a professional gig, and they run out of real estate, so they just start redoing houses?

02:07:48.000 Yeah, man.

02:07:49.000 It's basically like glorified slumlord shit.

02:07:53.000 And you can't displace poor people.

02:07:56.000 It's not like they just disappear.

02:07:58.000 Everyone's gotta go somewhere, you know what I mean?

02:08:00.000 So you're basically playing Tetris with humans.

02:08:06.000 This is like one of the worst hoods in Philly and now it's bougie.

02:08:09.000 Is that really happening in Philly?

02:08:11.000 Yeah, absolutely, man.

02:08:12.000 Like, the only city more gentrified than New York is Philadelphia, in my opinion.

02:08:17.000 Well, that's happening in Brownsville, right?

02:08:19.000 Yeah, I mean, you can start going to East New York and Brownsville and say, gentrified, Bed-Stuy, you know, like, you're talking Bed-Stuy do or die, and now there's, like, white guys named Chip walking around.

02:08:30.000 It's like, what's happening, man?

02:08:31.000 So strange.

02:08:32.000 It's bizarre.

02:08:33.000 Gentrification is just bizarre in general because I'm like, yo, where are you putting the people that are leaving?

02:08:39.000 Right.

02:08:39.000 Where are they going?

02:08:40.000 Well, whose responsibility is it?

02:08:42.000 If you wanted to buy a building, are you supposed to think about the people that are poor that are there?

02:08:46.000 Are you supposed to think about your money that you're buying the building for?

02:08:49.000 The people that want to do it have to be cut from a different cloth that I'm not cut from.

02:08:54.000 I couldn't do that.

02:08:55.000 I couldn't do that.

02:08:56.000 Just displace people?

02:08:57.000 Sure.

02:09:00.000 There's a cutthroat mentality that's needed and it's needed in the music and entertainment industry that I don't have and it's probably held me back by being just like a good guy.

02:09:14.000 There should I think so like in what way what should what could you have done that would have propelled you further?

02:09:22.000 Well as far as like as far as being more popular I don't know but decisions I've made like when when you said You know you would pay for your buddies to come and I do too now If we had a financial advisor,

02:09:38.000 they'd be like, you two are morons for doing that.

02:09:40.000 I would tell them these wrong.

02:09:42.000 Because I'd be performing better, so it'd be better shows.

02:09:45.000 My lawyer's like, you're the worst client ever.

02:09:50.000 You pay everyone.

02:09:51.000 You pay them too well.

02:09:53.000 You pay them too handsomely.

02:09:55.000 Fuck everybody.

02:09:57.000 I'm like, yo, man.

02:09:58.000 I don't know if that helps you get by, though.

02:10:01.000 I don't think that really advances you.

02:10:03.000 If you have that mentality, I don't think that really advances you.

02:10:06.000 I think what advances you is great work.

02:10:08.000 That's fair.

02:10:09.000 What does it take to make great work?

02:10:11.000 I think there's got to be a certain amount of...

02:10:13.000 You have to have a certain amount of chaos, but also a certain amount of peace.

02:10:16.000 Yeah, of course.

02:10:17.000 You know, and you get those from the...

02:10:19.000 There's decisions that you've made, that I've made, that ultimately you've made them because that's who you are.

02:10:26.000 Yeah, well, I think...

02:10:28.000 In order for me to have altered who I am, then I would have had to live with that, too.

02:10:34.000 Yeah.

02:10:35.000 And I don't want to not be who I am, because if I... I wouldn't want to do the...

02:10:40.000 Success wouldn't mean anything to me if I got there by not being me.

02:10:45.000 Hmm.

02:10:45.000 You gotta live with that, and that's worse than not succeeding, to me.

02:10:49.000 You know, I don't know about other people.

02:10:51.000 A lot of people just fake it, and they're not who they are, and they're okay with that if it comes with success.

02:10:57.000 In order for me to shift who I am inherently, my fiber, my being, the way that I was raised to treat people, if I had to shift that and have success, the success wouldn't be success to me.

02:11:10.000 It would be on paper.

02:11:12.000 The rap business is just so strange.

02:11:17.000 I don't know how you feel about mumble rap, but mumble rap is one of the weirdest things to me.

02:11:22.000 I'm confused.

02:11:23.000 It's bizarre.

02:11:24.000 What is happening?

02:11:26.000 I feel like I don't want to be that dude who doesn't get it.

02:11:32.000 You know what I mean?

02:11:33.000 But you don't get it.

02:11:34.000 I don't.

02:11:34.000 I don't get it either.

02:11:35.000 I don't, but...

02:11:37.000 When you start dealing with youth culture, and when I was the age of these mumble rap kids, there were older heads saying, you know, the generation before us, the Cold Crush Brothers to the Big Daddy Canes, they probably thought what we were doing was crazy.

02:11:52.000 So is that what's happening?

02:11:53.000 I don't know.

02:11:54.000 Maybe everyone's like, what the fuck is that?

02:11:56.000 It's like...

02:11:58.000 It's to the point with me where I'm like, yo, is that even a genre of rap?

02:12:01.000 I almost look at it...

02:12:03.000 I guess I don't have a problem with it because I don't process it as anything close to what I do.

02:12:10.000 It's almost like if you said, yo, what do you think about EDM? I'd be like, oh, I don't know.

02:12:13.000 I guess it's alright.

02:12:14.000 It's...

02:12:15.000 Right, right.

02:12:15.000 I don't even look at it like I can't listen to that and then hear Big Daddy Kane and think it's the same thing.

02:12:20.000 Well, when we were kids listening to music, right, if you were listening to something that you enjoyed, one of the things you loved was like good lyrics.

02:12:29.000 Of course.

02:12:30.000 And when you can't understand what they're saying.

02:12:32.000 Yeah.

02:12:33.000 It's also, it's just so driven by, it's like phrase driven.

02:12:37.000 Yeah.

02:12:37.000 They just say whatever the line.

02:12:38.000 Over and over again.

02:12:39.000 Over and over again, yeah.

02:12:40.000 I don't know if like it's just because these kids are doing Molly or whatever, and they're just in a zone.

02:12:44.000 Is it drug culture?

02:12:45.000 Because that's happened before too.

02:12:47.000 You know, one thing creates the other.

02:12:49.000 It's like chicken or the egg.

02:12:50.000 Are these kids doing Molly and make mumble rap?

02:12:52.000 Are they doing mumble rap and everything?

02:12:53.000 Eatin' Molly.

02:12:55.000 And it's all, you know, the 60s, going back to the 50s and beatniks and that scene and jazz and heroin and what created it, you know what I mean?

02:13:05.000 Did Miles and Coltrane make some of those records because they were on Heron or vice versa?

02:13:10.000 It's happened.

02:13:11.000 Historically, is this just a drug-driven culture?

02:13:13.000 I don't know.

02:13:14.000 Because I'm detached, you know?

02:13:17.000 I'm detaching that.

02:13:18.000 And, you know, I'm a kid who grew up...

02:13:22.000 Listening to metal and stuff like that.

02:13:24.000 I'm not at a shortage for...

02:13:26.000 I'll listen to Slayer.

02:13:27.000 I'll just listen to Slayer before I listen to that.

02:13:30.000 If that's my only option, then I'll listen to Slayer.

02:13:32.000 You know what I mean?

02:13:33.000 I'll listen to Black Flag.

02:13:35.000 I'll listen to Minor Threat.

02:13:37.000 That's what I'll do.

02:13:41.000 However I feel about it, it becomes irrelevant when you realize that...

02:13:46.000 You have so much good shit out there.

02:13:50.000 It's like with film.

02:13:51.000 I'm not worried about a bad movie.

02:13:53.000 I'll just watch a dope movie.

02:13:54.000 Right.

02:13:55.000 There's so many movies.

02:13:56.000 They're not throwing them away.

02:13:57.000 Right.

02:13:58.000 And it's like, yo, I'll just listen to Thin Lizzy if I don't feel like...

02:14:04.000 Adjusting to that.

02:14:05.000 You know what I mean?

02:14:05.000 And there's other things that we might not get because we're not doing what we used to do.

02:14:09.000 Maybe if we were out of the bar or the club five nights a week and you weren't married with kids and we were hammered, maybe it sounds different.

02:14:16.000 You know, it's time and place shit.

02:14:18.000 It's like you hear certain songs and you're like, I'm not listening to this in my car.

02:14:22.000 I'm rolling the windows up if someone sees this.

02:14:24.000 But maybe it affects them differently in a live environment or something.

02:14:27.000 I don't know.

02:14:28.000 I'm playing devil's advocate.

02:14:29.000 I just...

02:14:30.000 It's just a strange trend where it's a lot of mumbling.

02:14:33.000 I'm like, what?

02:14:34.000 I don't know what they're on about.

02:14:36.000 Cough syrup?

02:14:36.000 Yeah, I think this is Lean and Miley.

02:14:39.000 And I think that...

02:14:40.000 That drug culture created that.

02:14:43.000 I have a friend of mine who's a real estate agent.

02:14:44.000 Some mumble rapper was working in the house.

02:14:47.000 And she's like, I literally had no idea what the fuck he was saying.

02:14:51.000 So him talking as a human, he mumbles.

02:14:56.000 Wow.

02:14:57.000 See, I didn't know that.

02:14:59.000 I thought it was like their style when they rhymed.

02:15:02.000 But maybe it was just this one.

02:15:04.000 She was showing him this dope house and he's mumbling up a storm.

02:15:07.000 Wow.

02:15:08.000 So he's like asking her for a jacuzzi and she thinks she's ordering a pizza.

02:15:12.000 I don't know.

02:15:13.000 I mean, you know, I love listening to Nas and I love listening to Public Enemy and clean lyrics, you know, that had a hit to them.

02:15:23.000 Yeah, KRS-One.

02:15:24.000 Yeah.

02:15:24.000 Yeah, Big Daddy King.

02:15:26.000 Yeah, of course.

02:15:26.000 Whoop, whoop.

02:15:27.000 That's a son of the police.

02:15:29.000 That's hip hop.

02:15:30.000 Yeah, there was something to it, though, that you knew that they were trying to get a message across along with the music.

02:15:37.000 Of course.

02:15:37.000 There was something cool about it.

02:15:38.000 Yeah, I think maybe these kids think you can't do both.

02:15:43.000 Yeah.

02:15:43.000 And our era was different.

02:15:45.000 It's like people could dance to Public Enemy and they were talking about what was going on and...

02:15:59.000 I think there's a disconnect with these kids that they don't think you can say something.

02:16:06.000 Have people dance or whatever.

02:16:08.000 I don't know what these fucking mumble motherfuckers are doing.

02:16:11.000 They might just slobber in the corner.

02:16:13.000 Well, they all have to have tattoos on their face, too.

02:16:15.000 Oh, yeah.

02:16:16.000 That's another mockery.

02:16:16.000 That's like part of the program.

02:16:17.000 That's like another mockery.

02:16:18.000 There's a tattoo.

02:16:19.000 Just settle down, man.

02:16:21.000 You know they don't come off, right?

02:16:23.000 You know?

02:16:23.000 It's like, I think these kids think they can come off.

02:16:26.000 I don't think they care.

02:16:27.000 I just don't think they care.

02:16:28.000 I don't think they're thinking.

02:16:30.000 I mean, it's all this I-don't-give-a-fuck culture.

02:16:32.000 Yeah.

02:16:33.000 And they're not trying to get cool shit on their face.

02:16:36.000 They're trying to get, like, scribbles.

02:16:38.000 Yeah.

02:16:38.000 No, it looks like, you know, you're drawing the face of the drunk kid at the party.

02:16:43.000 That's what they all look like.

02:16:44.000 Yeah.

02:16:45.000 You know?

02:16:46.000 They all look like that with pink dreads.

02:16:49.000 There's a lot of rap music that slips through the cracks, too.

02:16:51.000 A lot of people forget about Gangstar.

02:16:53.000 Yeah, they're one of the greatest groups ever.

02:16:56.000 It becomes the responsibility of the culture to uphold that.

02:17:02.000 When someone like Mitch Hedberg, who passed away young, someone like Bill Hicks...

02:17:08.000 The comedic community, it's their responsibility that those guys don't get forgotten.

02:17:13.000 And it's the same with hip hop.

02:17:14.000 It's my responsibility to talk about Gangstar in interviews so the 16 year old kid says, oh, I'll check that out.

02:17:22.000 It's my responsibility to talk about Big Daddy Kane and Cool G Rap.

02:17:27.000 Cool G Rap.

02:17:29.000 A lot of people forget about Cool G Rap.

02:17:30.000 To me, he's the greatest of all time.

02:17:32.000 He was one of the greatest, for sure.

02:17:34.000 I've listened to so much of his shit.

02:17:35.000 Yeah, to me, he's the best ever.

02:17:37.000 That song, Cock Blockin'?

02:17:38.000 Oh, God.

02:17:40.000 Just ignorance at its finest.

02:17:43.000 That's a great fucking song.

02:17:44.000 The guy says, stand up and wipe his dick on your curtain.

02:17:49.000 Might be the best rap lyric of all time.

02:17:51.000 Yeah, people forgot about Cool G Rap.

02:17:54.000 But if you think about Hicks, right?

02:17:55.000 So he was 33, and that was like 93. There's young kids that love comedy that don't know about Bill, and he influenced my life.

02:18:03.000 Because towards the end, he was doing more social commentary than anything.

02:18:07.000 Yeah, a lot of it wasn't even that funny.

02:18:10.000 It stopped being jokes.

02:18:12.000 It was just like he was expanding his mind and felt like talking about it.

02:18:16.000 And Hedberg was brilliant.

02:18:18.000 It's our responsibility to carry the torch of all these people that were great minds that left too soon with Bourdain.

02:18:25.000 I don't want people to forget about that guy.

02:18:27.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:18:28.000 He was special.

02:18:29.000 Well, luckily we have a lot of shows to watch.

02:18:32.000 His show was so unique too because of his narration.

02:18:35.000 What's going to be interesting, I have the newest one with W. Kamau Bell.

02:18:41.000 I haven't watched that yet, but it apparently is the last one where he does narration.

02:18:46.000 Oh, okay.

02:18:46.000 And then all the other ones from this season was after he died.

02:18:50.000 So someone else is going to...

02:18:51.000 No, no.

02:18:52.000 They're not going to do any narration.

02:18:53.000 Oh, okay.

02:18:54.000 They're just going to let the show play itself out.

02:18:57.000 Just be what it is.

02:18:58.000 They're going to do it, I guess, somehow with editing, and they're going to figure it out.

02:19:01.000 Yeah.

02:19:03.000 It's tough, man.

02:19:04.000 Another punk rock guy, too.

02:19:05.000 Oh, yeah, man.

02:19:07.000 That guy went hard.

02:19:08.000 Yeah, man.

02:19:09.000 He went hard.

02:19:10.000 OG. Yeah.

02:19:11.000 If you look at him from, like, 2014 and then look at him from 2018, it's like he lived several decades inside of a few years.

02:19:20.000 Yeah.

02:19:20.000 He went hard.

02:19:21.000 He was going hard.

02:19:22.000 He was going hard.

02:19:24.000 Yeah, I don't know if I recommend it, but, you know, I mean, he said it best.

02:19:29.000 You know, you should treat your body like it's an amusement park.

02:19:34.000 He did.

02:19:35.000 Yeah.

02:19:37.000 I mean there's something that we all we all have in common with all these artists is that there's an understanding that we have that they're all living this Non-standard way of getting through this life that they're all living this this That's

02:20:13.000 right.

02:20:14.000 He doesn't even know anybody there.

02:20:15.000 He just goes there.

02:20:16.000 Or whether it's Bourdain who would make these shows about it or whether it's musicians or comedians or anybody who does these things.

02:20:23.000 I think I take comfort in the fact that there's guys like you out there and that everybody's not trying to be some cardigan-wearing, button-down, fake progressive who's just trying to not have people mad at him.

02:20:38.000 So he's trying to...

02:20:40.000 Say the things that you think you're supposed to say so that everybody likes you and then before you know it, you're dead.

02:20:45.000 There's no rebellion.

02:20:47.000 No.

02:20:47.000 No personal, real, objective opinions on things.

02:20:52.000 Everything great that's ever come has come out of rebellion.

02:20:56.000 It's come out of a fuck you.

02:20:58.000 To something.

02:20:59.000 If not a fuck you, fuck me.

02:21:00.000 Yeah, sure.

02:21:01.000 What is this?

02:21:03.000 What are we doing?

02:21:04.000 Fuck my life.

02:21:06.000 Fuck, yeah.

02:21:08.000 Fuck this!

02:21:09.000 If I don't know what I'm doing, then I have to explore everything I can to try to figure out what I'm doing.

02:21:15.000 You know what I mean?

02:21:16.000 That's the only way to learn.

02:21:20.000 To say, I don't know what I'm doing, and then live in a bubble, it's the antithesis of how to fix that.

02:21:27.000 Yeah.

02:21:31.000 The beautiful thing is that a guy like you or me or other people that are living these different alternative lives, the other thing they do is they send a signal to that kid who's sitting in his room right now.

02:21:43.000 His parents are yelling at him because he's got all D's.

02:21:46.000 And he's like, I can't fucking do this.

02:21:49.000 But you know what I really like to do?

02:21:51.000 I really like to listen to rap.

02:21:52.000 Or I really like to listen to stand-up.

02:21:54.000 Or I really like to do whatever the fuck it is.

02:21:57.000 I really like to read books.

02:21:58.000 I just don't want to...

02:21:59.000 Telling that kid it's okay is an important part of what we do.

02:22:03.000 It's a huge part.

02:22:04.000 Telling that kid the system that they have set up for you, where you go through this bullshit education process, then next thing you know you're in some fucking factory job or some nonsense cubicle.

02:22:13.000 That is not good.

02:22:15.000 Right.

02:22:15.000 And they're not telling you that educational system.

02:22:18.000 They're not telling you anything.

02:22:19.000 They're not telling you about finance.

02:22:21.000 They're not telling you about diet.

02:22:23.000 They're not telling you.

02:22:24.000 Think about what we learned in high school and how it applies to our life.

02:22:28.000 Almost nothing.

02:22:29.000 Information with no...

02:22:30.000 It's literally like giving you an engine but not giving you driving lessons.

02:22:34.000 Yeah.

02:22:34.000 And think of what they could be doing to prepare you.

02:22:38.000 Yeah.

02:22:39.000 It's out there.

02:22:40.000 Like, why aren't you giving these kids Kafka or Nietzsche?

02:22:43.000 Or why aren't you telling them that this is terrible for you or this is filled with chemicals or this is...

02:22:48.000 Yeah.

02:22:48.000 That's information that needs to be out there.

02:22:52.000 You know, I don't...

02:22:55.000 Did you ever learn anything about money?

02:22:57.000 No.

02:22:58.000 Me neither.

02:22:58.000 Nothing.

02:22:59.000 You have to have it.

02:23:00.000 You gotta pay your bills.

02:23:01.000 Yeah, I know that much.

02:23:01.000 Get a good job.

02:23:02.000 Yeah.

02:23:02.000 Don't be a loser.

02:23:03.000 You're right.

02:23:04.000 That's all I know.

02:23:05.000 Fuck.

02:23:05.000 And then how am I gonna do that?

02:23:07.000 Because I don't want to do that.

02:23:08.000 I don't want to be in a cubicle.

02:23:09.000 I know that.

02:23:10.000 So how do I maneuver this?

02:23:12.000 What do I do?

02:23:13.000 Nobody knows.

02:23:14.000 And if you tell people you want to try something different, like I want to be a rapper, get the fuck out of here.

02:23:19.000 Forget about it, man.

02:23:20.000 Forget about it.

02:23:21.000 Get a job.

02:23:22.000 Yes.

02:23:22.000 So you're not just fighting the machine.

02:23:26.000 You're fighting people that love you.

02:23:28.000 Yeah.

02:23:28.000 They don't want you to be a loser.

02:23:30.000 Yeah.

02:23:30.000 And you're trying to do the opposite of that.

02:23:34.000 You're trying to change.

02:23:35.000 You're trying to break the cycle of this...

02:23:38.000 You know, you go to school, then you get a job, or you go to school, then you go to college, and then you get into $250,000 worth of debt to go work a job you hate to pay off that $250,000 debt.

02:23:52.000 And it's the cycle, and that's the cycle of this country.

02:23:55.000 And the fucked up thing is, if you want to do something different, nobody's got a path for you.

02:24:00.000 Like, if you say, hey, you know, I really love hip-hop.

02:24:02.000 I want to be a rapper.

02:24:04.000 Yeah.

02:24:05.000 No one says, oh, well, that's a viable job opportunity.

02:24:09.000 Obviously, a lot of people are rappers.

02:24:11.000 You can do this.

02:24:12.000 This is something you can do.

02:24:13.000 No one says that.

02:24:14.000 Nobody.

02:24:14.000 No one.

02:24:16.000 If you tell them you want to be a stand-up, what are you, fucking out of your mind?

02:24:19.000 You're not funny.

02:24:20.000 My own mom told me that.

02:24:21.000 Did she?

02:24:22.000 Wow.

02:24:23.000 I never thought you were very funny.

02:24:24.000 All right, Mom, wait till I talk shit about you and all the people laugh.

02:24:27.000 Yeah, and the weightlifting skit you did.

02:24:30.000 Ma!

02:24:31.000 That was me and Brian Cowan.

02:24:34.000 Brilliant.

02:24:35.000 Yeah, but this alternative lives, like outside of the straight and narrow structure that most people follow, that's available to people.

02:24:45.000 They just have to have more examples of it.

02:24:49.000 People like us are examples.

02:24:52.000 There is, though, I will say this.

02:24:55.000 You have to have balls to do it.

02:24:58.000 And you have to be able to look at things honestly and fix things that aren't right.

02:25:02.000 Of course.

02:25:02.000 And that shit I didn't do.

02:25:04.000 I wasn't being self-aware at certain times.

02:25:10.000 And then once you start doing that and saying, maybe this is me.

02:25:14.000 Maybe this is me.

02:25:15.000 And if I change this, you see instant results.

02:25:18.000 You know what I mean?

02:25:19.000 How long have you been doing it for?

02:25:22.000 I wrote my first rhyme at nine, but it was like the worst thing ever.

02:25:25.000 Wow.

02:25:25.000 What was your early influences?

02:25:28.000 Well, my brothers brought home Sucker MCs.

02:25:32.000 That was 83. It was like little.

02:25:34.000 I played it on my Muppets turntable.

02:25:38.000 And the first record where I said, I want to rap was La Tee, This Cuts Got Flavor.

02:25:44.000 I was like, I want to do this.

02:25:46.000 And then I did, remember Candy Girl by New Edition?

02:25:49.000 Yes.

02:25:50.000 I did, I rapped on that at the, in like third grade talent show.

02:25:54.000 Really?

02:25:55.000 Yeah.

02:25:55.000 Third grade?

02:25:56.000 Yeah, my mom's got it on VHS and threatens me with it.

02:25:59.000 I'm like, that's not a threat, put it up.

02:26:02.000 You don't gotta threaten me with that.

02:26:06.000 When I was in junior high school, I heard Sugar Hill Gang for the very first time.

02:26:10.000 Life-changing.

02:26:11.000 And I remember thinking, whoa, this is a new kind of music.

02:26:14.000 Yeah.

02:26:14.000 This is a new thing.

02:26:15.000 Hip-hop, a hibbity-hip-hop, a dibbity-beat, don't stop, a rocket to the bang, jump boogie.

02:26:20.000 Crazy.

02:26:21.000 Yeah, I mean, I remember thinking, like, wow, this is a new thing.

02:26:24.000 Yeah.

02:26:24.000 And then when Run DMC was so hard with Suck MCs, I was like, yo, what the fuck is this?

02:26:31.000 Because Sugar Hill, I obviously loved that record and changed the course of history, but they were rhyming over the chic instrumental.

02:26:39.000 But when Suck MCs just rocked those drums.

02:26:43.000 You know, those hard drums.

02:26:44.000 And then being from Philly, like, hearing Schoolie D and, like, you know, these hard records.

02:26:50.000 But, like, first time, like, I rhymed, like, to record something.

02:26:56.000 Like, um, like, 90, 91. You know?

02:26:59.000 And it was awful, you know?

02:27:01.000 But it's, um...

02:27:03.000 You just work on your craft and hope that you get to a point where people don't think you're awful.

02:27:09.000 When did you start getting paid?

02:27:11.000 Um...

02:27:14.000 Let me see.

02:27:15.000 So we put out an EP on our own that we pressed up in 96. Where I was like, I'm living off rap.

02:27:25.000 Is that what you mean?

02:27:25.000 98?

02:27:27.000 98. But...

02:27:30.000 What kind of jobs did you have before you were doing that?

02:27:32.000 I didn't really have jobs.

02:27:33.000 I like...

02:27:37.000 Just dirtbag?

02:27:38.000 Yeah.

02:27:39.000 Dirtbag shit.

02:27:40.000 Yeah, for a couple years after high school.

02:27:43.000 Just some scumbag shit.

02:27:45.000 And then the first check came and I was like, there's no turning back now, man.

02:27:49.000 You know what I mean?

02:27:50.000 This is the greatest shit ever.

02:27:52.000 Money from what you want to do.

02:27:54.000 I can buy Jordans from rapping?

02:27:56.000 What are you talking about?

02:27:57.000 Yeah.

02:27:58.000 Blew my fucking mind, man.

02:27:59.000 You know, it blew my mind.

02:28:01.000 Like, you know, buying a pair of Jordans with that...

02:28:04.000 It's unreal.

02:28:06.000 But yeah, like, never...

02:28:09.000 If I can die never having a square gig, I'll consider it a success.

02:28:13.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:28:15.000 When did you really say to yourself, okay, I'm a legit professional now.

02:28:20.000 Like, this is it.

02:28:21.000 There's no turning back.

02:28:22.000 I'm 100% now.

02:28:24.000 Like, I don't have to worry about this going away.

02:28:27.000 I still don't think that way.

02:28:28.000 Really?

02:28:30.000 It's the fear again.

02:28:31.000 It's the fear of, like, the second I think that, it'll go away.

02:28:34.000 You know what I mean?

02:28:35.000 Things get bigger.

02:28:36.000 Our office gets bigger.

02:28:38.000 You know, the merge business grows.

02:28:40.000 The tours grow, and I'm still...

02:28:42.000 The fear is like, yo...

02:28:47.000 I'm just lucky.

02:28:49.000 I just feel lucky that I'm able to do it.

02:28:51.000 So I never want to think that way.

02:28:53.000 I guess I have to answer the question if a stranger says, what do you do?

02:28:58.000 I have to answer it because it is what I do and I made a lot of money and I'm good.

02:29:03.000 My mom's good because of it.

02:29:04.000 But I feel like the day that I feel like that maybe I don't know.

02:29:13.000 You know, like, the philosophy when a fighter's thinking of retirement, it means they're already retired in their head.

02:29:19.000 I'm sort of applying that logic.

02:29:21.000 Like, the second I say, yo, this is my thing, you know, I could play for 75,000 kids at a festival in Switzerland, I still think I'm a piece of garbage, you know what I mean?

02:29:30.000 And that's sort of, like, it's sort of a driving thing with me, you know what I mean?

02:29:35.000 Whereas...

02:29:36.000 Historically, rap has just been so ego-driven.

02:29:38.000 I'm the best.

02:29:39.000 That's the cornerstone of it when you rhyme, but some people carry themselves like that in real life.

02:29:45.000 And I don't want to be that, man.

02:29:48.000 It's like I'm so...

02:29:51.000 I'm so scared of someone ever thinking that humility isn't the most important thing to me.

02:29:57.000 And being polite is the most important thing to me.

02:30:00.000 And it is.

02:30:01.000 And that's not really how people are in this game.

02:30:05.000 Not just a rap, just the entertainment business.

02:30:07.000 You meet an actor who's a dickhead.

02:30:09.000 Like, yo man, you get paid to act.

02:30:12.000 That's a blessing.

02:30:13.000 We're lucky to be here, right here.

02:30:17.000 I'm just blessed to be sitting here with you, man.

02:30:19.000 So why would I be anything but appreciative of that?

02:30:22.000 And I don't want to think...

02:30:24.000 This is what I do.

02:30:25.000 You know what I mean?

02:30:25.000 I just want to live in...

02:30:27.000 Be in the moment.

02:30:28.000 Yeah, maybe when it's over, I'll tell you.

02:30:31.000 But if you don't tour, if you say you're not going to tour again, do you mean you won't tour internationally?

02:30:36.000 Or will you still perform locally?

02:30:39.000 What are you going to do?

02:30:40.000 Well, I just landed yesterday.

02:30:46.000 From?

02:30:47.000 So what we did, we started in Baltimore, New York, Philly, Boston, Vermont.

02:30:57.000 And like, to sell out your hometown, man, it's like this many years later, you know, and to sell out New York and sell out Boston, it's this thing that where you...

02:31:09.000 It's still fucking mind-blowing, man.

02:31:11.000 You know what I mean?

02:31:12.000 It's still people cheering your name.

02:31:15.000 It's mind-blowing.

02:31:15.000 I just...

02:31:16.000 Maybe it's more of like...

02:31:18.000 Sometimes people need to decompress.

02:31:21.000 Maybe I just need to decompress for a little bit and I'll completely change my mind.

02:31:24.000 Just not tour next year or something.

02:31:27.000 And then maybe I'll be ready or something.

02:31:29.000 It's just...

02:31:30.000 I love walking out on that stage, man.

02:31:33.000 I love being out here talking to you.

02:31:35.000 I was with Be Real yesterday from Cypress doing his stuff.

02:31:39.000 I love all of this.

02:31:40.000 Did you do the smoke box?

02:31:41.000 I would lose my fucking brain.

02:31:44.000 I would lose my fucking brain.

02:31:45.000 What if he hotboxed you?

02:31:46.000 Would it was just him in there?

02:31:48.000 Bro, I don't have to tell you they were smoking heavy.

02:31:51.000 I think I walked out zonked just being in the room with them guys.

02:31:54.000 I'm sure.

02:31:54.000 Yeah, I was zapped.

02:31:56.000 Yeah, he's one of those all-day dudes.

02:31:58.000 Yes, sir.

02:31:58.000 I can't do that.

02:32:00.000 Yes, sir.

02:32:00.000 I have too much stuff to do.

02:32:02.000 Yeah, sure.

02:32:03.000 Of course.

02:32:03.000 We all do.

02:32:05.000 He's getting shit done, though.

02:32:07.000 Yeah, B-Real's one of those rare individuals that can stay stoned.

02:32:12.000 I think maybe some decompression.

02:32:15.000 I think in Dante's circles of hell, I think airports might be on there.

02:32:22.000 Just loathe them.

02:32:24.000 I hate the whole process.

02:32:26.000 Checking in, like this, that.

02:32:29.000 God bless people who have that private jet money, that Elon Musk money.

02:32:34.000 You know what I'm saying?

02:32:35.000 But that's wasting.

02:32:37.000 You're burning off all that cash.

02:32:39.000 Sure.

02:32:40.000 If you're making $100 and spending $40 on the jet, like, shit, man.

02:32:44.000 You spent two.

02:32:46.000 Indeed.

02:32:47.000 It's just the process, man.

02:32:50.000 It's...

02:32:50.000 When you were talking about being alone in hotel rooms, I hate the hurry up and wait of the entertainment industry, and that's what it's built around.

02:32:58.000 You know what still trips me out?

02:33:00.000 When I wake up in the morning, I look at the ceiling, and I don't remember where I am.

02:33:03.000 Yo!

02:33:04.000 Ohio?

02:33:05.000 No.

02:33:06.000 Yes.

02:33:06.000 Philly.

02:33:07.000 No, no, no, no.

02:33:08.000 Yes.

02:33:09.000 Yes.

02:33:10.000 I'm like, yo, what country am I in?

02:33:11.000 Yeah.

02:33:12.000 It's fucked.

02:33:13.000 It's fucked.

02:33:14.000 It's weird.

02:33:15.000 It's very weird.

02:33:16.000 Do you think when you take the time off, are you going to still write?

02:33:20.000 I'm in the studio.

02:33:21.000 I write five days a week, and I record every Thursday.

02:33:27.000 Every Thursday?

02:33:28.000 Every Thursday.

02:33:29.000 Really?

02:33:29.000 Yeah.

02:33:30.000 So you write five days a week.

02:33:31.000 Now, what's your process?

02:33:32.000 How do you write?

02:33:33.000 It has to be super late at night.

02:33:36.000 Yeah?

02:33:36.000 Yeah.

02:33:37.000 I really can't do anything during the day.

02:33:42.000 I'm just nocturnal by nature.

02:33:48.000 I just sit there with the beat blasting Just sit there.

02:33:53.000 Yeah.

02:33:53.000 And let it come.

02:33:55.000 One bar, one bar, one bar.

02:33:57.000 Until it's done.

02:33:58.000 So do you have like a raw beat with no lyrics?

02:34:00.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:34:01.000 So who makes a beat for you first?

02:34:05.000 I work with a lot of producers, so they'll send them and when I love something, I'll go, alright, I'm gonna work on this tonight.

02:34:11.000 So you get the beat, and then you sit and listen to it, and you start thinking about things you would say over it?

02:34:16.000 Yeah, exactly.

02:34:17.000 The hardest thing for me is the first line.

02:34:21.000 That's the hardest thing to do.

02:34:24.000 Authors say the exact same thing.

02:34:26.000 Yeah, I'm sure.

02:34:27.000 I mean, the first joke's probably hard, because everything goes off of that.

02:34:30.000 You know what I mean?

02:34:31.000 So that line...

02:34:34.000 It's super hard.

02:34:36.000 And then I love being in the studio.

02:34:40.000 I love it.

02:34:42.000 That's where I would be.

02:34:44.000 Unfortunately, because when we were kids, records were sold.

02:34:48.000 So you could be like, I don't want to tour.

02:34:51.000 We're the Beatles.

02:34:52.000 We sold fucking 100 million records.

02:34:54.000 We don't have to tour.

02:34:54.000 They just decided they didn't want to tour in like 67. And they never did again.

02:34:59.000 You know what I mean?

02:35:00.000 But it's...

02:35:02.000 Everything is generated monetarily through touring, merch, you know what I mean?

02:35:07.000 So it's like the grind is there.

02:35:09.000 I don't like to feel like my hand is forced ever because that's when it starts.

02:35:14.000 That's that square world.

02:35:15.000 And I never want to feel like I'm obligated to do something.

02:35:19.000 And that could be some of my animosity towards touring.

02:35:22.000 You know what I mean?

02:35:23.000 Like, yo, this is what you do.

02:35:24.000 This is what you have to do.

02:35:26.000 You know, go out this many days, this, this, this.

02:35:29.000 It just fries my brain, man.

02:35:33.000 Obviously, all this shit takes a physical toll on you, but it fries my brain where I'm like...

02:35:40.000 Just completely zonked.

02:35:45.000 Walking through life, I never see anything.

02:35:48.000 People are like, how was blah, blah, blah?

02:35:50.000 How was the Louvre?

02:35:51.000 I'm like, I never saw that shit.

02:35:54.000 How was the blah, blah, blah?

02:35:55.000 You deal with the same shit, man.

02:35:59.000 I never saw shit, man.

02:36:01.000 Nothing.

02:36:02.000 Right.

02:36:03.000 Ever.

02:36:03.000 No way.

02:36:04.000 Hotel room, venue, food.

02:36:05.000 Hotel room, van or bus or whatever.

02:36:08.000 You know what I mean?

02:36:09.000 And repeat.

02:36:10.000 It's like rinse, repeat.

02:36:13.000 Like I said, I think just the entertainment business in general, there's a perception that That it isn't work because it's not the work they do.

02:36:29.000 Yeah.

02:36:29.000 Like, try working on a car all day.

02:36:31.000 I'm like, try driving 15 hours with someone who smells like balls in a tour van.

02:36:38.000 But you'll take it, though, right?

02:36:40.000 I mean, you'll take it over a regular job.

02:36:42.000 Of course, man.

02:36:43.000 When you write, do you write with a pencil and paper?

02:36:46.000 Do you write in your head?

02:36:47.000 Do you write on a computer?

02:36:48.000 How do you write?

02:36:49.000 I wrote in a rhyme book, just like a spiral rhyme book for all my adult life.

02:36:55.000 And then I started not being able to read my handwriting because I write like a graffiti writer.

02:37:00.000 And I'd be like, what's this word?

02:37:02.000 So now what I do, I go it over my head.

02:37:05.000 When I have enough, when I have enough, I'll type it out.

02:37:08.000 And then go over my head, go over my head, type it out.

02:37:11.000 Now it's clean and organized, which is not me on any level.

02:37:16.000 How long have you been doing it that way?

02:37:17.000 Really recent.

02:37:19.000 Within a year.

02:37:20.000 Really?

02:37:21.000 Yeah.

02:37:22.000 And do you write like on Microsoft Word or something?

02:37:24.000 I don't even know what it is.

02:37:26.000 It's just like a note thing on the computer.

02:37:28.000 It's called like Notepad or something.

02:37:30.000 Okay.

02:37:31.000 Yeah.

02:37:31.000 Like on a Mac?

02:37:33.000 No, a PC. But writing five days a week and recording every Thursday only started when I stopped heavy drinking.

02:37:46.000 Everything changed.

02:37:49.000 You don't want to be creative when you're hungover.

02:37:53.000 You want to sleep.

02:37:55.000 I recorded more in the past two years than the previous ten.

02:38:03.000 Yeah, man.

02:38:04.000 Yeah, I have tons of music recorded.

02:38:06.000 You know, maybe it's not all great, but it's recorded, you know, and I'm writing.

02:38:09.000 I have clarity, you know, on a lot of levels.

02:38:13.000 Is there any window that you could see opening up where you could make money from the actual music itself?

02:38:19.000 Because this is, I mean, the last couple of decades threw the music business on its head, but there's streaming services now, and Jamie was just talking about the thing that Steven Tyler was talking about.

02:38:30.000 It's called...

02:38:32.000 Music Modernization Act.

02:38:34.000 Yeah, that's a thing where they're trying to You have these streaming companies.

02:38:39.000 Correct.

02:38:39.000 Because they're giving you a pittance.

02:38:42.000 Mm-hmm.

02:38:42.000 Well, Pandora, there was a Pandora that just sold for billions of dollars.

02:38:46.000 And it's like, what do you do that you're worth billions of dollars?

02:38:50.000 What you do, you distribute other people's art.

02:38:52.000 Right.

02:38:53.000 You don't really have anything.

02:38:54.000 And don't pay them.

02:38:55.000 Yeah.

02:38:55.000 You don't pay them.

02:38:56.000 You make all the money.

02:38:57.000 To say pennies on the dollar wouldn't be enough.

02:39:00.000 I'm not exaggerating.

02:39:01.000 It's less than that.

02:39:02.000 It's not even that.

02:39:02.000 No.

02:39:04.000 I'm not sure if either one of you guys saw the tweet from Crosby, Stills& Nash.

02:39:13.000 I didn't see it.

02:39:15.000 It was like a breakdown of what he got paid from, you know, how huge those records were or something.

02:39:20.000 It was like...

02:39:22.000 $55 or something for like 200 million streams.

02:39:27.000 And then Peter Frampton responded to him with another screenshot.

02:39:30.000 It's like, here's mine.

02:39:32.000 And I have one of the biggest records ever.

02:39:33.000 Peter Frampton comes a lot.

02:39:35.000 And they were going back and forth.

02:39:36.000 And people in the industry were retweeting it.

02:39:39.000 Because, I mean, these are guys who are A, older and B, richer than we can ever imagine.

02:39:44.000 And it's important for people like them to speak up.

02:39:48.000 It is.

02:39:50.000 I repeat, the streamers don't pay us for the damned music that we made.

02:39:55.000 In all caps, don't pay us.

02:39:58.000 This is David Crosby.

02:39:59.000 He's got a few tweets that are similar.

02:40:01.000 Yeah, there's one with the actual numbers.

02:40:03.000 Yeah, I mean...

02:40:06.000 It's stunning, and I don't understand how they're getting away with it.

02:40:08.000 I don't either.

02:40:09.000 I don't either.

02:40:10.000 And I'm not powerful enough to do that.

02:40:12.000 That's why dudes like him...

02:40:14.000 At one point, Taylor Swift pulled all her shit, and I was like, that's great, because she's huge.

02:40:19.000 That's an important statement.

02:40:20.000 You know what I mean?

02:40:21.000 It's like, if you guys weren't getting paid...

02:40:25.000 Correctly from a streaming service for your stand-up and someone like Eddie Murphy spoke up.

02:40:31.000 That's important.

02:40:33.000 A fucking hack in Schenectady tweeting about it's not going to help you.

02:40:37.000 Well, I won't let them put my podcast on.

02:40:39.000 And they've been trying to do it for years.

02:40:41.000 And I'm saying, no.

02:40:42.000 What do I get out of it?

02:40:44.000 Right, of course.

02:40:44.000 Well, it's just another way for people to get your...

02:40:46.000 There's a lot of people that are listening.

02:40:48.000 There's people that are already listening.

02:40:49.000 I don't want to.

02:40:50.000 That shit happens to me.

02:40:52.000 Will you do this?

02:40:54.000 No.

02:40:54.000 And they're blown away that you say no.

02:40:55.000 And again, that's why I think you're punk rock, whether you do or not.

02:40:59.000 You just say, fuck you.

02:41:00.000 Well, I just understand what they're doing.

02:41:02.000 They're thieves.

02:41:03.000 Yeah.

02:41:03.000 And they want to put ads on it.

02:41:05.000 And the most recent thing is that they'll give you some money, but like...

02:41:09.000 Not compared to what you're making.

02:41:10.000 What are you going to do?

02:41:12.000 All you have is other people's work.

02:41:14.000 Other than that, you just have a station.

02:41:18.000 I feel bad for people.

02:41:20.000 You've built your own everything.

02:41:22.000 You're your own entity.

02:41:24.000 I've done the same thing on a smaller level.

02:41:27.000 We're outliers, bro.

02:41:29.000 Like, some people really need that shit.

02:41:31.000 You know what I mean?

02:41:32.000 Well, they get stuck in the system, and then even worse, they become a part of some sort of a network where they have a bunch of executives telling them what they can and can't do.

02:41:40.000 Of course, those dudes who sign those major label deals that are, you know, in the videos with the jewelry and shit.

02:41:45.000 Like, bro, none of that shit real.

02:41:47.000 It's either fake, it's rented, those cars are rented.

02:41:50.000 Yeah, I know.

02:41:50.000 You know what I mean?

02:41:51.000 There's dudes still living in the projects and they're in those videos with Lambos.

02:41:56.000 Yeah.

02:41:56.000 You know?

02:41:57.000 It's like perceptions become reality through social media.

02:42:01.000 So people think like...

02:42:02.000 You know, you have a rented car and rented jewelry on that you're worth this.

02:42:08.000 And I'm like, yo, you don't know the fuckery that that label offered them.

02:42:11.000 He's got a 360 deal.

02:42:12.000 They're taking his merch.

02:42:13.000 They're taking this.

02:42:14.000 That's what's crazy, that they take your merch and your ticket sales.

02:42:17.000 Yes, that's those 360. The music company that doesn't have anything to do with you performing, they take a piece of you performing.

02:42:25.000 Yes.

02:42:26.000 And these things that, like, things are offered to me, and I'm like, yo, man, I spent my entire life building this, and you want a piece of the pie that I baked for no reason.

02:42:38.000 I'll share it with anybody, but what's the reason for it?

02:42:41.000 Well, you gotta be offering something.

02:42:43.000 Bring something to the table.

02:42:44.000 They're not offering you anything.

02:42:45.000 No, they're not bringing anything to the table.

02:42:47.000 What are they saying?

02:42:47.000 That we can make you bigger?

02:42:48.000 We'll get you on the radio, which nobody listens to anymore?

02:42:51.000 What are they saying?

02:42:52.000 Right.

02:42:52.000 Who listens to the radio?

02:42:53.000 Not me.

02:42:55.000 Is there a big radio station these days that anybody listens to?

02:43:00.000 Not that I'm aware of.

02:43:01.000 I mean, I know they still exist.

02:43:03.000 Like, I know Hot 97 is still in New York, but I don't know if anyone listens to it.

02:43:07.000 But where do kids find out about music now?

02:43:09.000 It's got to be through the internet.

02:43:10.000 Yeah, the interwebs.

02:43:12.000 I asked a kid, a young barber was cutting me.

02:43:18.000 And he was like, what are you doing?

02:43:20.000 You're a musician?

02:43:21.000 You know, he casually got into it.

02:43:23.000 I was just making conversation.

02:43:25.000 I was like, how do you listen to music?

02:43:27.000 He was like, Spotify, Apple Music, and SoundCloud.

02:43:31.000 And I was like, okay, I don't use any of the three of them.

02:43:33.000 But it's good to know.

02:43:35.000 You know what I mean?

02:43:36.000 It's like...

02:43:39.000 Like I listened, I have your podcast on like a podcast app on my phone, you know what I mean?

02:43:44.000 And I'm assuming that's what people do.

02:43:46.000 Yeah.

02:43:46.000 It's a little bit easier to track, I suppose.

02:43:49.000 But again, it's like the Peter Frampton and David Crosby thing.

02:43:55.000 Like I said, it was some number that's outlandish, like 200 million streams or something.

02:44:02.000 50 bucks.

02:44:03.000 Yeah, like how is that legal?

02:44:05.000 Criminals.

02:44:05.000 Yeah.

02:44:06.000 How is it legal?

02:44:07.000 It shouldn't be.

02:44:08.000 They rigged the system.

02:44:09.000 They did.

02:44:10.000 They have to figure out a way to quantify it the same way record sales would have been, like when we went to the fucking store, when we went to Tower Records or the Mom and Pop store or whatever.

02:44:18.000 Here it goes.

02:44:18.000 That's it.

02:44:18.000 Recent numbers per screen.

02:44:20.000 Napster, Was Rhapsody, 0.019.

02:44:24.000 Tidal, 0.0125.

02:44:26.000 Apple Music.

02:44:28.000 So, get your song played a million times and get less than five dollars.

02:44:32.000 Seems fair.

02:44:33.000 Yeah, that's it.

02:44:34.000 That's what he said.

02:44:35.000 That's fucking insane.

02:44:37.000 A million streams, you get less than five clams, man.

02:44:40.000 That is insane.

02:44:41.000 That's such a small number.

02:44:42.000 It's so small.

02:44:43.000 YouTube, 0.00069.

02:44:48.000 What is that?

02:44:50.000 What is that?

02:44:51.000 What is that?

02:44:53.000 That's fucking insane.

02:45:00.000 That's a hard word to say.

02:45:01.000 One hundred thousandths of a dollar.

02:45:04.000 Can you even quantify that as money at that point?

02:45:07.000 But what does anyone do when they're faced with this sort of information?

02:45:14.000 Is anything going to change?

02:45:16.000 And if it does change, what are they going to do?

02:45:18.000 Double it?

02:45:20.000 That's my worry.

02:45:21.000 That's my worry that it's being brought to people's attention and it might go to, you know, the big government might get involved.

02:45:28.000 How much is that going to shift?

02:45:30.000 Right.

02:45:32.000 Well, it seems like the artists can't pull their music.

02:45:35.000 The music is owned by the record companies.

02:45:37.000 The record companies are going to play it, and they're not going to pay them the same they would pay someone who was buying it.

02:45:43.000 Right.

02:45:44.000 I know Taylor Swift pulled her shit for a minute on some Making a Stance, but however it was rectified, she put it back up.

02:45:50.000 They gave her money.

02:45:51.000 Probably.

02:45:52.000 I'm sure they gave her money.

02:45:53.000 They give people money.

02:45:54.000 They're giving people money for podcasts, too.

02:45:56.000 They give you money for exclusive use of it for a couple days or something like that.

02:46:01.000 For two days.

02:46:02.000 Yeah, something along those lines.

02:46:03.000 Or they want to put their own ads on it, something along those lines.

02:46:07.000 People can get your podcast.

02:46:09.000 You don't need to do that.

02:46:10.000 No, man.

02:46:11.000 You're just letting someone make some money off you for no reason.

02:46:14.000 Absolutely.

02:46:15.000 Absolutely.

02:46:16.000 And what we do, it's like, we control our shit.

02:46:19.000 Why would we give that up?

02:46:20.000 Yeah.

02:46:21.000 Tell me why I would give up control of my shit to you.

02:46:25.000 Yeah.

02:46:25.000 You can't.

02:46:26.000 Right.

02:46:27.000 There's no logical explanation unless we're talking fucking money.

02:46:30.000 Do you own all your music?

02:46:31.000 Yeah.

02:46:32.000 See, that's nice.

02:46:33.000 That's nice.

02:46:34.000 And there's not a lot of people that can say that.

02:46:36.000 No, because, you know, when you sign with a major, they own your masters, man.

02:46:41.000 Yeah.

02:46:41.000 So it's like, you can't do it.

02:46:42.000 You know, if I want to...

02:46:44.000 You know, an album of mine that came out in 2010, say in 2020, I want to do a...

02:46:51.000 10th anniversary edition on blue vinyl and all that kind of cool shit.

02:46:55.000 I can.

02:46:56.000 I don't have to ask anybody.

02:46:57.000 You know what I mean?

02:46:59.000 It's like direct-to-consumer shit is basically what I'm doing.

02:47:02.000 It's how my merch companies run.

02:47:04.000 I try to do that as much as possible because that DIY aesthetic is important to me.

02:47:12.000 You know what I mean?

02:47:15.000 We grew up with people and they seemed untouchable.

02:47:21.000 Rockstar shit.

02:47:23.000 Superheroes.

02:47:23.000 You know what I mean?

02:47:24.000 And I would like to sort of bridge that gap where it's like, no, come up and say what's up, man.

02:47:29.000 You know what I mean?

02:47:30.000 Let's talk.

02:47:31.000 How are you?

02:47:32.000 What's your name?

02:47:34.000 Do you still sell actual physical CDs anymore?

02:47:38.000 Yeah, we do.

02:47:39.000 Because there's a niche audience, man.

02:47:41.000 How many people buy them?

02:47:43.000 Is that like...

02:47:44.000 It's like...

02:47:45.000 Well, see, I press vinyl, I press tapes before, but...

02:47:49.000 Tapes?

02:47:49.000 Yeah, just to be...

02:47:50.000 Just to be cute?

02:47:52.000 Yeah, I like to be cute, Joseph.

02:47:54.000 Nah, yeah.

02:47:56.000 Tapes, vinyl, CDs.

02:47:58.000 Vinyl sells the most.

02:48:00.000 Really?

02:48:00.000 Yeah, people love vinyl these days, right?

02:48:02.000 Yeah, it's a big, big comeback.

02:48:04.000 CDs still?

02:48:06.000 They're the most...

02:48:07.000 Honestly, right now, today, tapes are more popular than CDs.

02:48:11.000 Whoa!

02:48:12.000 Yeah, it's just like a nostalgia thing and it'll probably go away.

02:48:15.000 But we discussed not even pressing them.

02:48:18.000 Wow.

02:48:18.000 Yeah, that's how much...

02:48:20.000 I did because I'm old school, but we discussed not doing it.

02:48:24.000 But vinyl's still coming in strong.

02:48:26.000 Yeah.

02:48:27.000 Do you buy into the sound difference?

02:48:29.000 I do.

02:48:30.000 Yeah?

02:48:30.000 Yeah.

02:48:31.000 But I buy into it with...

02:48:33.000 First, you have to start at the source.

02:48:37.000 If it's recorded amazingly, if it sounds shitty, it's going to sound shitty.

02:48:42.000 I'd rather listen to the Beatles on vinyl.

02:48:44.000 I'd rather listen to Thin Lizzy on vinyl, metal, stuff like that.

02:48:48.000 I mean, a lot of hip-hop shit.

02:48:51.000 Kids have a mic and a laptop.

02:48:54.000 In the bedroom.

02:48:56.000 That's the recording studio.

02:48:58.000 Yeah.

02:48:58.000 That's not gonna make any fucking difference.

02:49:00.000 It's gonna be what it is.

02:49:01.000 You know what I mean?

02:49:02.000 But bands who care, it's warmer.

02:49:05.000 Like if I listen to Stevie Wonder records, they sound warmer.

02:49:08.000 Warmer.

02:49:08.000 Yeah.

02:49:09.000 Yeah.

02:49:09.000 I've heard that expression before.

02:49:11.000 Yeah.

02:49:11.000 I don't know really how to articulate it, but in my head I know what it means.

02:49:14.000 Just the bass lines and drums, everything sounds warm to me.

02:49:19.000 Can they replicate that?

02:49:21.000 Is it possible?

02:49:22.000 Some people can.

02:49:23.000 With electronics?

02:49:26.000 To a degree, you still need to get analog to a degree.

02:49:30.000 You know what I mean?

02:49:31.000 There's still a few studios in the country that do shit on reel-to-reel.

02:49:35.000 Because that sound, you can't have it fully replicated.

02:49:38.000 You can get close, but you need to go to reel-to-reel to really get that sound that we loved.

02:49:45.000 Yeah.

02:49:46.000 Now, what about like Apple Music and people buying things on iTunes, things like that?

02:49:52.000 People still do that, right?

02:49:53.000 Yeah, but that's dropping too.

02:49:55.000 Mostly streaming now?

02:49:57.000 It's so stream dominated, you know, because even when people were doing that, like buying albums on iTunes, buying albums digitally on Amazon or whatever someone's preference is, It was sweet.

02:50:09.000 It was good.

02:50:09.000 Good money, all of that.

02:50:11.000 And then the streaming shit.

02:50:12.000 Because logically, if you're a casual music fan and you pay $10 a month for Spotify for every album that's ever been recorded, it's like, can you really blame the fan?

02:50:21.000 You know what I mean?

02:50:22.000 And their ways of ingesting music are so different.

02:50:26.000 I loved opening the vinyl.

02:50:27.000 I loved reading the thank yous.

02:50:29.000 I love the smell of the fucking cassette tape.

02:50:32.000 It was an experience going to the store, being on the bus with the headphones on the first time you hear it.

02:50:39.000 I can tell you where I was when I bought Nas-O-Matic.

02:50:42.000 I can tell you all that.

02:50:44.000 That's debt.

02:50:45.000 The experience, it's, you know, boom, bong, now I have the album.

02:50:50.000 You do a comedy, I got the new Joe Rogan album.

02:50:52.000 Right.

02:50:52.000 Two seconds with a click.

02:50:54.000 That's a weird thing to me.

02:50:55.000 Yeah.

02:50:56.000 You know what I mean?

02:50:56.000 I guess it's not weird to them.

02:50:58.000 Remember those stores you would go to where there was little stations where you could press a button to listen?

02:51:03.000 And listen, of course.

02:51:03.000 A little preview of all these different, and people would just stand there all day?

02:51:06.000 All day.

02:51:06.000 Listening to music?

02:51:07.000 All day.

02:51:08.000 That's the only way you can get it?

02:51:09.000 And if they didn't have them, you were buying shit and guessing.

02:51:12.000 You know how many bad shit I bought?

02:51:15.000 Just look at a cool album cover and go, let's give it a chance.

02:51:18.000 I bought metal albums with a badass cover and the band was just terrible.

02:51:23.000 You know what I mean?

02:51:24.000 Did you see Sugar Man?

02:51:26.000 Yes.

02:51:26.000 How crazy is that movie?

02:51:28.000 Fucking crazy.

02:51:29.000 I don't know what's crazy.

02:51:30.000 The story or that he got big in Africa.

02:51:33.000 Crazy.

02:51:34.000 It's just some bad shit crazy.

02:51:34.000 That movie made me cry.

02:51:35.000 Me too.

02:51:36.000 Bad shit crazy.

02:51:37.000 But just how insane that this guy went on to become like a laborer for a construction company, had no idea that he was a superstar in Africa.

02:51:46.000 Insane.

02:51:46.000 And then goes there as an older man to a sold out stadium.

02:51:50.000 Yeah.

02:51:50.000 And they all know the words.

02:51:52.000 It's beautiful, man.

02:51:53.000 That is one of the craziest documentaries of all time.

02:51:56.000 I agree.

02:51:57.000 Searching for Sugar Man.

02:51:58.000 If you haven't seen it, folks, you gotta see it.

02:52:00.000 It's brilliant.

02:52:01.000 Well done.

02:52:02.000 Yeah, and it's a different era, too.

02:52:04.000 You know that guy gave all his money away?

02:52:06.000 I do.

02:52:07.000 He's the real fucking deal.

02:52:09.000 No fucking joke, man.

02:52:11.000 Yeah.

02:52:12.000 I mean, he still lives like he lived when he was a poor construction worker.

02:52:15.000 Yep.

02:52:18.000 Whoa.

02:52:18.000 Elevated way of thinking, man.

02:52:21.000 Yeah, I think he just got so used to being in that space for so long.

02:52:25.000 And his fucking music is good, man.

02:52:27.000 It's really good.

02:52:28.000 It's really good.

02:52:29.000 I think sometimes, man, like when that's brought on you, you're still more comfortable in that other way.

02:52:35.000 Yeah.

02:52:36.000 You know, some people don't want to...

02:52:39.000 They're not comfortable embracing that.

02:52:41.000 Whether it's wealth or fame or a mixture of both.

02:52:46.000 I just think he was like, I'm good.

02:52:49.000 I'm content.

02:52:50.000 And there's people with billions that aren't content.

02:52:53.000 There's nothing more important than being good with yourself.

02:52:56.000 And he seems good with himself.

02:52:58.000 Yeah, that is one of the scarier things, is someone who's insanely successful but never satisfied.

02:53:03.000 I think a lot of people are like that.

02:53:05.000 It's one of the things that I was saying about Trump.

02:53:07.000 Like, if you are 70 years old and you have billions of dollars, why are you still working?

02:53:14.000 Yes.

02:53:14.000 Do you think something's going to change and you're going to live forever?

02:53:18.000 Right.

02:53:18.000 Do you have no perception that you literally are on the last finger full of grains in your hourglass?

02:53:25.000 That's all you got left.

02:53:26.000 And you're not spending it on a yacht in Acapulco, getting your dick sucked to Big Pimpin' in the background?

02:53:33.000 Yeah, like what's the...

02:53:35.000 What's the mechanism in his head that's driving this?

02:53:39.000 I don't get it.

02:53:40.000 I think about like that about Warren Buffet.

02:53:42.000 Yeah, right.

02:53:43.000 What keeps you going?

02:53:43.000 He's like 409 years old.

02:53:46.000 I don't even know how much money.

02:53:48.000 Well, he's a real weird one because he still lives in fucking the middle of nowhere.

02:53:51.000 Yeah, he's a strange bird.

02:53:52.000 In a regular house.

02:53:53.000 Yeah, and his suits always look like they were just pulled off the rack at Yeah.

02:53:57.000 And weren't tailored.

02:53:58.000 Yeah.

02:53:59.000 He goes to Terrence Crawford fights, though.

02:54:02.000 Always.

02:54:03.000 He's always there.

02:54:04.000 He was hanging out with Floyd one night.

02:54:06.000 It was funny.

02:54:06.000 Yeah.

02:54:07.000 He reps Nebraska.

02:54:09.000 Yeah, hard.

02:54:10.000 Yeah.

02:54:10.000 He's an interesting guy.

02:54:12.000 Super interesting.

02:54:13.000 Yeah.

02:54:15.000 But listen, man, we just did three hours, believe it or not.

02:54:18.000 Thank you for having me, my friend.

02:54:19.000 My pleasure, brother.

02:54:20.000 I'm glad we finally got a chance to do this.

02:54:21.000 Me too, man.

02:54:21.000 It means a lot.

02:54:22.000 I've been a big fan for a very long time.

02:54:24.000 Me too, man.

02:54:24.000 So thank you.

02:54:24.000 Tell people how they can find you on Twitter, Instagram, BoxcutterPazzy on Instagram.

02:54:30.000 What is Twitter?

02:54:32.000 It's Vinny underscore Paz.

02:54:34.000 And website?

02:54:37.000 JMTStore.com.

02:54:38.000 Jedi Mind Tricks.

02:54:39.000 Everything's on there.

02:54:40.000 Thank you, brother.

02:54:41.000 It was awesome.

02:54:41.000 Thank you so much, Joe.

02:54:42.000 Thank you, man.

02:54:43.000 See ya!

02:54:52.000 Oh, that was great.

The Joe Rogan Experience - September 26, 2018

Joe Rogan Experience #1174 - Vinnie Paz

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