The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1260

00:00:00.000 We just don't crash as much.

00:00:02.000 You don't think that's the issue?

00:00:05.000 Four, three, two...

00:00:11.000 This time we're live.

00:00:12.000 Ladies and gentlemen, we are live with the great and powerful Russell Peters.

00:00:16.000 Hi!

00:00:16.000 And one of the baddest motherfuckers to ever get into the ring, Lennox Lewis.

00:00:21.000 Don't mess with the best.

00:00:23.000 That's a fact.

00:00:24.000 You're walking around on this earth, one of the baddest motherfuckers of all time.

00:00:29.000 Verified.

00:00:30.000 100%.

00:00:30.000 Feel good about it, too.

00:00:32.000 It's gotta feel good.

00:00:32.000 Yeah, don't get in any fights.

00:00:34.000 But you know what else?

00:00:35.000 You have your wits about you, 100%.

00:00:37.000 You're smooth and relaxed.

00:00:40.000 You know, how did you do that?

00:00:41.000 Oh, I started out that way.

00:00:46.000 It's like, you know, apple don't fall too far from the tree type of thing.

00:00:52.000 I've always been that way, collective thinker, soft-spoken, and what you don't know about me, what you don't know about me, when you do know about me, you love me even more.

00:01:05.000 Do you exercise at all anymore, boxing-wise?

00:01:08.000 Yeah.

00:01:08.000 Do you hit the bag?

00:01:09.000 Well, not hit the bag.

00:01:11.000 I'm more into working out with the weights.

00:01:13.000 It was hard for me when I retired.

00:01:16.000 That was the worst part.

00:01:17.000 What was the hardest?

00:01:19.000 Just, you know, saying, okay, you know, I'm eating more, so I need to exercise because I'm not doing no exercising.

00:01:25.000 But when I start exercising, I'm training for a fight.

00:01:27.000 Right.

00:01:28.000 So it's like, okay, training, training.

00:01:30.000 Why am I doing this?

00:01:31.000 I'm not going to fight, but I'm still training for a fight.

00:01:33.000 So mentally, I had to say to myself, well, let me try the soft things, you know, let me play tennis and all these different sports, which I can play.

00:01:41.000 And that kind of helped me a lot better.

00:01:43.000 Right.

00:01:43.000 Yeah, that is an interesting thing with fighters.

00:01:45.000 A lot of times when they're done, they're done.

00:01:48.000 Look at Maidana.

00:01:49.000 Yeah, well, he's apparently gotten back into shape again.

00:01:52.000 He's back in training camp, but Maidana got big.

00:01:54.000 You know why?

00:01:55.000 Because he probably got on Instagram and people started talking shit because he's kind of fat on his Instagram.

00:01:59.000 That's what made me want to lose weight.

00:02:01.000 Really?

00:02:02.000 Yeah.

00:02:02.000 People talking shit?

00:02:03.000 People were like, holy fuck, did you eat your whole cast?

00:02:05.000 You do look like you're losing weight, though.

00:02:07.000 You look pretty slim, my friend.

00:02:08.000 I lost 21 pounds with our dear friend, John Jack Machado.

00:02:12.000 Well, hey, jiu-jitsu will peel that weight off you.

00:02:14.000 That's a fact.

00:02:14.000 That's some strenuous shit.

00:02:16.000 You ever thought about doing jiu-jitsu, Lennox?

00:02:18.000 He's scared of me.

00:02:18.000 He won't do it.

00:02:19.000 Whoa.

00:02:20.000 Let me tell you, when I was growing up, I had friends that did wrestling, I had friends that did kickboxing, all these different programs.

00:02:41.000 Right.

00:02:42.000 Right.

00:02:52.000 Yeah.

00:02:53.000 They always fare financially better.

00:02:57.000 So, you know, for me, I didn't really throw my weight around like that.

00:03:02.000 You know, it's like, don't mess with me.

00:03:05.000 Okay, if you mess with me, something's going to happen.

00:03:07.000 And then they don't really mess with me.

00:03:09.000 I kind of carry myself like that.

00:03:11.000 Right.

00:03:11.000 Because I'm so serious at sometimes, like, you know, they can sense the seriousness of it.

00:03:16.000 Serious, but still easy going.

00:03:18.000 So there's no reason to push you.

00:03:20.000 Right.

00:03:20.000 I'm silent, but violent.

00:03:23.000 Ooh, I like that.

00:03:25.000 Silent, silent, but violent.

00:03:28.000 It is an interesting thing, though, about fighters is that when you think of exercise, you think of exercise as you're preparing for a big, violent event.

00:03:37.000 Yeah.

00:03:38.000 Whereas for most people, they just don't want to be fat, they want to look good, they want to get in shape.

00:03:42.000 And, you know, it's a lot of people on Instagram that are just working out really hard every day, but there's no reason.

00:03:48.000 Right.

00:03:49.000 You had a reason.

00:03:50.000 Yes.

00:03:50.000 Yeah.

00:03:50.000 So when the reason's gone, it's like, hmm.

00:03:53.000 Now what?

00:03:54.000 How do I maintain this shape without maintaining that lifestyle?

00:03:58.000 You think of another reason.

00:03:59.000 Yeah.

00:04:00.000 Oh, like you.

00:04:02.000 You look good, by the way.

00:04:03.000 Thanks.

00:04:04.000 He does look good.

00:04:05.000 Lennox has seen me since I was 147 pounds.

00:04:08.000 Really?

00:04:08.000 You were 147 pounds at one point, Dan?

00:04:10.000 When I first started boxing, I was 147. How old were you?

00:04:14.000 15. Oh, okay.

00:04:15.000 I met him probably when I was 16. Oh, really?

00:04:18.000 Yeah.

00:04:18.000 You guys have known each other that long?

00:04:19.000 Yeah.

00:04:20.000 I know his parents.

00:04:21.000 Yeah.

00:04:21.000 Wow.

00:04:22.000 And his mom and his brothers.

00:04:24.000 Wow.

00:04:25.000 We go back.

00:04:25.000 We're deep.

00:04:26.000 That's crazy.

00:04:27.000 A lot of people don't realize that.

00:04:27.000 It was like, you know, I see him as a big star now.

00:04:30.000 I've seen him in movies and commercials, rescuing people.

00:04:34.000 You know what I mean?

00:04:35.000 I'm like, yo, this is the kid.

00:04:37.000 You know, he's grown up.

00:04:39.000 I literally used to sell him mixtapes in the 90s.

00:04:43.000 He was already world champ, and I'd be playing a mixtape.

00:04:45.000 He'd be like, yo, sell me that.

00:04:46.000 And I'm like, I just made it.

00:04:48.000 He's like, I'll give you 20 bucks.

00:04:50.000 I'm like, you just made $100 million.

00:04:52.000 Can't you give me 100 bucks?

00:04:55.000 Yeah, well, you know, everybody was making tapes back then.

00:04:58.000 Yeah, you remember those days where people were aggressively trying to sell tapes on the streets?

00:05:02.000 Yeah, I wasn't even trying to sell it.

00:05:04.000 I was just playing it in my car, and he was like, yo, sell me that.

00:05:06.000 No, he had the new shit going on.

00:05:08.000 You know, he had the real shit, so I had to get it.

00:05:12.000 I didn't have that contact to get the music, so he had the music contact.

00:05:17.000 A lot of people don't know, Russell's a legit DJ. I reluctantly gave him those mixtapes.

00:05:22.000 Reluctantly.

00:05:23.000 Yeah, it's a good move.

00:05:25.000 When you see him wrestling with people on TMZ, you see that shit?

00:05:29.000 Wrestling with the jewel thief?

00:05:30.000 I was trying to see what happened after.

00:05:33.000 He didn't throw no punches, though.

00:05:35.000 I was coaching.

00:05:36.000 I was yelling, get his neck!

00:05:37.000 Get his fucking neck!

00:05:38.000 If you watch it, you see I went for his arm to pull down to get his neck, and then the other guy in front of him pulled him down and I couldn't get the neck.

00:05:45.000 Could you tell us what happened?

00:05:47.000 I mean, all I seen was a guy walking out and you grabbed him.

00:05:50.000 No, if you watch it, there it is.

00:05:52.000 Here we go, here we go.

00:05:53.000 Okay, so here's what happens.

00:05:54.000 Let me tell you what happens.

00:05:56.000 I'm there looking at a ring, right?

00:05:57.000 Yeah.

00:05:58.000 And that guy's sitting down.

00:06:00.000 Earlier had checked to see if the door was open.

00:06:02.000 He went out to spit, and now he thinks the door's open, so now he thinks he's just going to get up and walk away with this ring.

00:06:11.000 This is where he makes his little move.

00:06:14.000 And then they lock the doors, and then I'm standing there, and I'm like, what's going on?

00:06:18.000 And I'm like, he takes a swing at my friend's father, and then I go, no, no, I try to get his neck, and that guy pulls him, you see?

00:06:23.000 There's a lot of opportunities to get the neck there, son.

00:06:25.000 No, but I'm trying.

00:06:25.000 He's a big, strong fucking guy, too.

00:06:27.000 No, you gotta go over the top.

00:06:28.000 I was trying, but I had three layers on.

00:06:31.000 I had a jacket, a sweatshirt, and a long-sleeved shirt on me.

00:06:33.000 That is an issue.

00:06:34.000 And then, so then I try to go for the arm, but everybody sees everybody's in my way, so I'm like, give me the arm, just let me get the arm, move, dad, move, dad.

00:06:41.000 Amazing, there you go.

00:06:42.000 Who's the guy in the big chain?

00:06:43.000 Who's the guy in the big chain?

00:06:44.000 That's Uncle David.

00:06:46.000 Who's the guy with the backward baseball hat?

00:06:47.000 Now I'm pushing the arm down, and you'll see I lock the wrist here.

00:06:50.000 As soon as I lock the arm, he says, okay.

00:06:53.000 He stops moving right there.

00:06:55.000 He goes, okay, okay, okay.

00:06:56.000 Yeah.

00:06:57.000 And I got the wrist.

00:06:58.000 You see the wrist pop?

00:06:59.000 Yeah, a little wrist lock, little Steven Seagal style.

00:07:01.000 That was my Fredson Paishal lock.

00:07:04.000 Oh, there you go.

00:07:05.000 Wrist locks are legit.

00:07:06.000 He got up again?

00:07:07.000 No, no, no.

00:07:07.000 This is just a different angle.

00:07:08.000 Oh, different angle.

00:07:09.000 I want to know how far we was going to make with a ring.

00:07:12.000 You see that wall where my cousin is hiding?

00:07:15.000 Yeah.

00:07:17.000 When he was trying to get out, he whacked his head against that wall.

00:07:20.000 Oh, no.

00:07:21.000 And he cut his ear open.

00:07:23.000 The thief?

00:07:25.000 Yeah.

00:07:25.000 So whatever happened to him?

00:07:27.000 He got arrested.

00:07:28.000 Where was this?

00:07:29.000 In Toronto?

00:07:30.000 No, in New York City.

00:07:31.000 No shit.

00:07:32.000 Right in the Jewelry District.

00:07:33.000 Wow.

00:07:35.000 Wow, you're a hero.

00:07:37.000 What an ill-planned out move.

00:07:39.000 You don't think that they know that people grab things and run away?

00:07:42.000 Well, there's that.

00:07:43.000 And apparently this guy had been coming to the store for six months scoping the place out.

00:07:47.000 Oh, that's hilarious.

00:07:48.000 He scoped it out poorly.

00:07:50.000 That's hilarious.

00:07:51.000 Yeah, just silly.

00:07:52.000 Do you have to go to court or anything with that?

00:07:54.000 I don't know.

00:07:54.000 I haven't heard anything since.

00:07:56.000 Do you worry about that?

00:07:57.000 All I was trying to do was hold him there because all the doors were locked.

00:07:59.000 I'm like...

00:08:00.000 It doesn't make sense to get into a scrap with the guy.

00:08:02.000 If I could just put him in a chokehold or a lock, then until the cops come.

00:08:06.000 But the thing is, you could injure him.

00:08:08.000 If you injure him, then they sue you.

00:08:10.000 Believe it or not.

00:08:11.000 Really?

00:08:11.000 Yeah, as ridiculous as it sounds.

00:08:13.000 How does that work?

00:08:14.000 Well, Russell's not really a law enforcement officer.

00:08:17.000 I know, but it would have been dangerous to everybody in the store if he was running wild.

00:08:20.000 True.

00:08:21.000 I mean, look, he's lucky you didn't crack him.

00:08:23.000 I just locked him up, and I said, alright.

00:08:25.000 As soon as I locked him up, he goes, okay.

00:08:27.000 And I go, okay, good.

00:08:28.000 And then he had one knee down and one leg up.

00:08:32.000 And I kicked that leg out so he'd be on both knees.

00:08:35.000 Get rid of his base.

00:08:36.000 That's right.

00:08:36.000 I was trying to move his base.

00:08:37.000 Move the base.

00:08:38.000 Okay, I got a question.

00:08:39.000 Now, if the whole thing happened again, how would you do things different?

00:08:42.000 I would have told everybody to get out of my way so I can get him in a choke and hold him.

00:08:47.000 Would you just put him to sleep?

00:08:48.000 Yeah.

00:08:48.000 Just put him to sleep, lay him down.

00:08:50.000 Yeah, lay him down, tuck him in.

00:08:51.000 You went back home and obviously you feel good about yourself.

00:08:54.000 Yeah.

00:08:58.000 Did you kind of run the whole thing through your mind a couple times?

00:09:01.000 Like, yo, this could have happened or what could happen in this situation?

00:09:04.000 No, I started thinking after if he had a gun or if he had a knife.

00:09:06.000 But I'm like, if he had a gun, he would have pulled it out right away.

00:09:10.000 Wow.

00:09:10.000 Yeah.

00:09:11.000 You know, he's not here to surprise you with a gun.

00:09:13.000 He's here to scare you with a gun.

00:09:15.000 Well, if there's that many dudes on him, too, good luck pulling that gun out.

00:09:17.000 Yeah.

00:09:19.000 One of us would have got shot, but probably in the foot or something.

00:09:22.000 Probably not.

00:09:22.000 You probably got real urgent if you saw him reaching for something.

00:09:26.000 Yeah.

00:09:26.000 It would have changed.

00:09:27.000 Yeah, I think knees to the head would have kicked.

00:09:29.000 Everything.

00:09:30.000 Everything.

00:09:30.000 I know.

00:09:31.000 I watch a lot of karate movies.

00:09:32.000 There's different things you could do.

00:09:33.000 Do you ever want to practice karate?

00:09:36.000 Do you ever want to do something different?

00:09:38.000 That's why I was asking you about jiu-jitsu.

00:09:39.000 Because when you're a world heavyweight champion boxer, after a while you're like, what other shit can I learn?

00:09:44.000 I kept arm-locking him when we were in England.

00:09:46.000 I kept hugging him and putting him in an arm.

00:09:48.000 Yeah.

00:09:49.000 You know, great Bruce Lee fan.

00:09:53.000 I love fighting movies.

00:09:56.000 And, you know, martial arts has always been a part of my life.

00:10:00.000 And I say that because every fight I fought, before I fought that fight, I watched a martial art movie.

00:10:06.000 Really?

00:10:07.000 Yeah.

00:10:07.000 Like what?

00:10:09.000 Like Chuck Norris, Bruce Lee, that kind of shit.

00:10:11.000 Jackie Chan.

00:10:12.000 Five deadly venomous.

00:10:13.000 Oh, the real shit.

00:10:14.000 Yeah, so, you know, those kind of movies.

00:10:16.000 Carter Wong type stuff, you know?

00:10:18.000 Yeah, I like that.

00:10:20.000 And that just got me in that mental state, like, you know.

00:10:23.000 Do you watch MMA today?

00:10:25.000 Yeah.

00:10:25.000 Do you ever watch it and go, if this was around when I was fighting, would I do this?

00:10:30.000 Um...

00:10:31.000 The only thing I think about that, because, you know, like I said, I was in the wrestling, I did wrestling when I was younger, and boxing as well, so I didn't know they could combine them two until I got older, but, you know, my focus was more on boxing.

00:10:46.000 But, you know, if they get paid a lot of money, I probably would have done it.

00:10:50.000 Yeah, that's how a lot of people feel, I think.

00:10:53.000 Right now, the money's not quite there.

00:10:56.000 For some people, like Conor McGregor or Ronda Rousey, but for the other folks, it's not enough to get a guy like Earl Spence to jump over.

00:11:06.000 I've seen some boxers actually good at boxing actually just win the fight on boxing because they're so good with their hands.

00:11:14.000 But your stance has to be different.

00:11:15.000 You can't have your lead leg out in MMA. That's the problem.

00:11:19.000 Well, you can't stand it sideways, yeah.

00:11:20.000 Yeah.

00:11:20.000 You've got to square up.

00:11:22.000 Your leg will get lit up.

00:11:23.000 I don't know.

00:11:24.000 I stand sideways, even in the fight, because I know that I stick that leg out there for them to come at.

00:11:29.000 And obviously, you know, it's easy to grab a leg, but...

00:11:34.000 To me, I don't think fighting should start that way anyway.

00:11:37.000 When you start fighting, usually punches are thrown quick and it lasts a couple seconds.

00:11:41.000 Nobody really just goes for your legs unless they say, okay, I'm going to go for his legs and take him down.

00:11:46.000 Nobody in the MMA, they kick your leg.

00:11:48.000 Yeah, they kick your leg.

00:11:49.000 Tell you you can't walk.

00:11:50.000 The leg kicks are brutal.

00:11:51.000 You ever been leg kicked?

00:11:52.000 Yeah.

00:11:53.000 Yeah, it's rough.

00:11:53.000 A guy hit me in the leg one time and I was like, I couldn't move.

00:11:57.000 And I'm like thinking, if we got in a fight, kicked me in the leg and they gave me a dead leg like this, I don't know what I would do, so...

00:12:03.000 Yeah, and if it's a guy like your size, like a Rico Verhoeven, who's a glory world heavyweight kickboxing champion, they just keep their hands up and chew your legs up.

00:12:11.000 One or two shots of your legs, and it's a horrible feeling.

00:12:15.000 It doesn't move right.

00:12:17.000 It just gives out on you.

00:12:18.000 And they hit you right on the side of your knee.

00:12:20.000 Ugh.

00:12:22.000 Well, you know what?

00:12:23.000 You know what he used to do?

00:12:24.000 You guys look like you've accepted that.

00:12:26.000 I go mad when someone kicks me in my leg and it's like, yo, you kick me in my leg.

00:12:31.000 I don't think anybody's kicking you in your leg anymore.

00:12:33.000 Did you ever see when Shannon the Cannon tried some kickboxing?

00:12:36.000 No.

00:12:37.000 Shannon Briggs fought Tom Erickson.

00:12:39.000 Oh, he got the ship beat at him, didn't he?

00:12:41.000 No, no, he fucked him up.

00:12:43.000 Really?

00:12:43.000 Shannon got leg kicked, though, and he said, you know, Shannon talks, he's hilarious.

00:12:47.000 He goes, champ, he goes, it hurts so bad, but I tried to play it off, champ.

00:12:52.000 He got hit with one leg kick and then he got hit with another one.

00:12:55.000 But he touched him with like a jab to the body and Tom Erickson got a little cocky.

00:13:00.000 Here it is right here.

00:13:01.000 He fought when he was in like this transitionary period and they offered him a lot of money.

00:13:06.000 Like right there he got leg kicked by this guy.

00:13:08.000 And the guy Tom Erickson that he fought is really more of a wrestler.

00:13:11.000 He kicked him twice and then Shannon, he actually broke it down for us on the podcast but he said his leg was hurting so bad And he tried to goad the guy into thinking that he could punch with him.

00:13:22.000 See, he got hit again.

00:13:23.000 He's like, oh Jesus.

00:13:25.000 He's letting him hit.

00:13:26.000 I would knock that guy out.

00:13:27.000 Yeah, but you'd think you would just let him do that.

00:13:31.000 But once you get hit with one of those things like that, it's so crippling to your leg.

00:13:35.000 You don't move right.

00:13:36.000 No, you're right.

00:13:37.000 Because like I said, I got hit there and I was like, my leg couldn't move.

00:13:41.000 The thing is that Erickson's fucked up.

00:13:43.000 You put Shannon to sleep, didn't you?

00:13:45.000 Yeah, it was a great fight too.

00:13:47.000 Erickson tried to box with him for some strange reason.

00:13:49.000 He got into this crazy idea, like right there, boom, he got clipped.

00:13:53.000 Good night.

00:13:53.000 Yeah, and that's it.

00:13:55.000 He's got the one...

00:13:56.000 Chill, champ, chill.

00:13:57.000 Was that kickboxing?

00:13:58.000 Yes, kickboxing.

00:13:59.000 Because they're wearing gloves.

00:14:01.000 And no shoes.

00:14:01.000 Boxing gloves, no shoes.

00:14:04.000 Isn't Shannon Briggs supposed to at least kick a couple times?

00:14:07.000 Well, you know, if he knew how to, but I think he went into there thinking, you know, I'll just crack him with a punch and knock him out, which he did.

00:14:14.000 You know, he ate a couple of leg kicks.

00:14:16.000 But it's hilarious when you hear him break it down.

00:14:19.000 How old are you now?

00:14:20.000 Who, me?

00:14:21.000 Yeah.

00:14:21.000 I'm under 100. Under 100?

00:14:23.000 Yeah, under 100. But you can't be any more than like, what are you, 45, 47?

00:14:28.000 How old are you?

00:14:28.000 Thank you very much.

00:14:30.000 Thank you very much.

00:14:31.000 Are you older than that?

00:14:32.000 50?

00:14:33.000 You don't want to say?

00:14:34.000 You're a great guy.

00:14:35.000 You don't want to say how old you are?

00:14:36.000 People have internet out there, so they'll just look it up.

00:14:39.000 How old is he?

00:14:40.000 53?

00:14:40.000 Yep.

00:14:41.000 You look great.

00:14:42.000 Thank you.

00:14:42.000 You do, right?

00:14:43.000 Doesn't he?

00:14:44.000 He's always looked good.

00:14:45.000 But when you were, like, you were one of those guys who did the smart, you retired and you just retired.

00:14:51.000 Yes.

00:14:51.000 You know, which I respect so much.

00:14:53.000 We were just talking about Marvin Haggard the other day.

00:14:56.000 Same man.

00:14:56.000 When Marvin Haggard retired, he's like, goodnight.

00:14:59.000 Take care, everybody.

00:15:00.000 Lost a controversial decision to Sugar Ray Leonard.

00:15:03.000 He said, take care, I'm going to go do some movies.

00:15:05.000 And that was it.

00:15:06.000 He just never came back.

00:15:07.000 It is so rare that a fighter does that.

00:15:10.000 Well, you know what?

00:15:10.000 Marvin was disheartened like a motherfucker with boxing, though.

00:15:13.000 He hated it.

00:15:13.000 He was like, I'm out.

00:15:14.000 Yeah?

00:15:15.000 Yeah.

00:15:16.000 You know, boxers go through so much.

00:15:19.000 And it's like when they know when it's time.

00:15:22.000 When a boxer says it's time to quit...

00:15:25.000 They know it's time because they've gone through so much and they realize that it's a lot of hard work.

00:15:29.000 For me, I've been boxing since I've been 15. So, you know, in training, hundreds of hours training, hundreds of hours working out, resting, working on technique, sparring, all these different things.

00:15:45.000 After a while, you know, you have to reach that height where you say, okay, that's enough.

00:15:49.000 And sometimes, you know, people...

00:15:53.000 Managers and trainers and promoters, they don't want to tell the boxer that's enough because that's how much they're making money off of that boxer every time he steps in the ring.

00:16:01.000 Did you have a conversation with Emmanuel Stewart about it?

00:16:04.000 Absolutely.

00:16:05.000 Who made the decision?

00:16:06.000 Did you guys make it together?

00:16:07.000 I made the decision.

00:16:09.000 He wanted me actually to go on.

00:16:11.000 Really?

00:16:11.000 Yeah, because Tyson was my main nemesis.

00:16:16.000 He's a boxer that I definitely wanted to fight before retiring.

00:16:22.000 And I didn't know if it was going to happen or not.

00:16:25.000 So I actually stuck around for a couple more years for that fight to happen because I didn't want, throughout history, people would be saying, oh, Tyson would have won or Lewis would have won.

00:16:36.000 I wanted them to know who would have won.

00:16:38.000 And then after the Tyson fight, Manny said, listen, Klisco's are around.

00:16:44.000 That's the new generation.

00:16:45.000 You can beat the guys from this generation and the guys from the next generation.

00:16:50.000 I'm like, yeah, that sounds good.

00:16:52.000 So he kind of talked me into doing that fight because I wasn't really going to do that fight.

00:16:56.000 And then, you know, that was a year after Tyson, and I didn't really want to box him straight away.

00:17:02.000 I wanted to box somebody else because...

00:17:04.000 The main nemesis was Tyson.

00:17:07.000 Once I beat Tyson, I could relax a little bit.

00:17:11.000 I relaxed for a year.

00:17:12.000 And then getting back into boxing, I boxed.

00:17:15.000 Klitschko was my first fight, which was a mistake.

00:17:18.000 Took the fight 17 days notice.

00:17:21.000 At my worst, I beat him at his best.

00:17:23.000 Why was it such a short notice fight?

00:17:26.000 Because the opponent that I actually picked to fight didn't want to fight me.

00:17:32.000 He actually said no.

00:17:34.000 Who was that supposed to be?

00:17:37.000 Johnson from...

00:17:38.000 Oh yeah, Kirk Johnson from Nova Scotia.

00:17:40.000 You were doing him a favor.

00:17:42.000 I think Klitschko felt that he was doing him a favor.

00:17:46.000 Listen, let me take the fight.

00:17:49.000 I've been training for two years for this guy.

00:17:50.000 I'm ready.

00:17:51.000 And then we'll give you the first shot after I win.

00:17:53.000 That's what was promised to him.

00:17:55.000 Vitaly had such a weird style, didn't he?

00:17:57.000 Yeah, he did.

00:17:58.000 And that's that kickboxing style coming into play a little bit because he would throw a punch and lean back like this.

00:18:04.000 And that's the first time I've actually seen that style.

00:18:07.000 And, you know, if I didn't reach out with my right hand as far as I did, I would never have caught him with that cut.

00:18:14.000 And it was that long right hand that caught him just at the end of my punch when he leaned back and he couldn't lean back anymore that made his eye cut.

00:18:24.000 Yeah, he was a very strange fighter in terms of his style.

00:18:28.000 Just the way...

00:18:28.000 Hands were always down.

00:18:30.000 It was a very weird way of moving.

00:18:32.000 Very unorthodox.

00:18:33.000 Because he was such a big guy.

00:18:34.000 He was 6'7".

00:18:35.000 Yeah.

00:18:36.000 He was probably the biggest guy you fought, right?

00:18:38.000 Yeah.

00:18:39.000 Could take a hell of a shot, too.

00:18:41.000 You never fought Gonzales, did you?

00:18:42.000 Michael Grant was big.

00:18:43.000 Gonzales, I boxed in the Olympics.

00:18:45.000 Jorge Luis Gonzales?

00:18:46.000 That was his name, right?

00:18:47.000 Yeah.

00:18:47.000 Cuban guy?

00:18:48.000 Yep.

00:18:48.000 There you are.

00:18:49.000 Look how weird the way he fights is.

00:18:51.000 Just such an awkward way of moving.

00:18:53.000 He hit me good with the right hand.

00:18:55.000 You see me holding him around the neck?

00:18:57.000 I learned that from Muhammad Ali.

00:18:59.000 He said, if you hold a guy around the neck, you can tell when he's going to move.

00:19:04.000 Hmm.

00:19:06.000 Wow.

00:19:06.000 But he was good in the first few rounds.

00:19:10.000 After the first three rounds, what people don't realize about this fight, I wasn't fighting for 12 rounds.

00:19:20.000 I was fighting to knock this guy out.

00:19:23.000 Because you had it in your mind.

00:19:25.000 Yeah, I had it in your mind.

00:19:26.000 This is the first time you ever see me going forward in the fight.

00:19:29.000 This guy's bigger than me.

00:19:30.000 I'm coming forward.

00:19:32.000 And I'm throwing punches.

00:19:33.000 He's catching me.

00:19:34.000 But those were the early rounds.

00:19:36.000 Although he's two inches taller than you, you look bigger than him.

00:19:39.000 He's a big fella.

00:19:40.000 Physically, physically.

00:19:41.000 Yeah, you're wider.

00:19:42.000 You know, when you look back on your career, do you have a most satisfying victory?

00:19:47.000 Yeah.

00:19:48.000 What is it?

00:19:49.000 Asim Rahman.

00:19:49.000 I was going to say that.

00:19:51.000 I was going to say the rematch.

00:19:52.000 The first or the second?

00:19:53.000 The second one, motherfucker.

00:19:54.000 Jesus Christ.

00:19:55.000 You Wally.

00:19:56.000 When a guy beats you like that, and then you know you could have beaten him or you should have beaten him, is that what bothered you so much?

00:20:05.000 No, you know what really bothered me is the fact that I gave him an opportunity.

00:20:09.000 I gave him a fight when I'm basically waiting for Tyson and I have to keep busy.

00:20:15.000 I'm looking down the list of who to fight.

00:20:18.000 He's number seven.

00:20:19.000 I realize that he's durable.

00:20:21.000 He's not one of these guys that get knocked out easy.

00:20:23.000 So I wanted to give my fans a proper fight.

00:20:27.000 Box the best guy out there, not box the easy guy that's easy to get knocked out.

00:20:30.000 I don't want to go home in two rounds.

00:20:33.000 And then another reason, a lot of people don't know, I went to Africa to fight because Muhammad Ali went to Africa.

00:20:38.000 He fought in Africa.

00:20:39.000 So I wanted to do that.

00:20:41.000 I wanted to fight in Africa.

00:20:43.000 I say, I'm a world champion, so I need to fight all around the world.

00:20:47.000 So that's what made me go to Africa.

00:20:50.000 The only thing about Africa is I didn't know that it was such a high altitude up there.

00:20:55.000 And for me to have a fight, I should have got there a lot earlier, but I was doing Ocean's Eleven at that time.

00:21:01.000 People said, oh, you were doing a movie.

00:21:03.000 I wasn't doing no movie.

00:21:04.000 I was sitting around half the time, waiting for them to change the lights, then go out and go out there for two minutes, and then go back and sit there for another two hours while they change the lights.

00:21:13.000 Were you training at all while that was happening?

00:21:15.000 Yeah, I was training, but it wasn't the conditions of training.

00:21:19.000 I needed a bag.

00:21:20.000 I needed sparring partners.

00:21:22.000 I needed to be...

00:21:24.000 So you're just kind of exercising?

00:21:26.000 Yes.

00:21:27.000 How many thousand feet was it above sea level?

00:21:30.000 Higher than Big Bear.

00:21:32.000 It was Cape Town, right?

00:21:33.000 So more than six?

00:21:34.000 Yeah.

00:21:35.000 Wow, I didn't know that.

00:21:36.000 Yeah, it was kind of weird because when I start working out, I was like throwing punches.

00:21:41.000 Then I found myself going...

00:21:44.000 So I had to take two steps back, and I'm like, oh no, don't tell me this fight's going to be one of those fights where I have to take my time.

00:21:50.000 So I basically went out there taking my time.

00:21:53.000 I realized he's dealing with the same thing I'm dealing with, although he was there a lot earlier.

00:21:58.000 But, you know, I had a couple things going wrong, boxing at four in the morning.

00:22:04.000 They couldn't find a big enough ring.

00:22:06.000 Then when they put the ring together, it was like...

00:22:10.000 18 by 19. And then, the punch that actually hit me, I actually thought I was going to block it, but it came around this side.

00:22:21.000 I put my hand up to block it, but it came around and hit me.

00:22:25.000 One of those things where a man threw a terrific punch, which my chin happened to be in the way of.

00:22:32.000 What is it like when that's over and you're sitting there and you know you lost, but you know that under the right circumstances this guy is not at your level?

00:22:42.000 In fact, you know, my problem was solved before I got out of the ring.

00:22:47.000 I knew what I did wrong, which was the greatest thing that ever happened to me.

00:22:50.000 It's like...

00:22:52.000 On another day, he wouldn't throw a lucky punch like that.

00:22:55.000 He wouldn't hit me.

00:22:56.000 And he wouldn't have a ref that, you know, was on his side as well.

00:23:00.000 How was the ref on his side?

00:23:02.000 When I say the ref's on his side, you know...

00:23:04.000 He called it a little early, I would say.

00:23:06.000 I got knocked down in the second round.

00:23:08.000 I'm the champion.

00:23:10.000 Right.

00:23:10.000 At least give me a chance.

00:23:12.000 Not wave the fight straight away.

00:23:13.000 Right, right, right.

00:23:14.000 You know, you've seen the Deontay...

00:23:16.000 Tyson Fury fight.

00:23:17.000 Tyson Fury fight.

00:23:18.000 Like, you know, if that was the ref, he would have counted him out straight away.

00:23:22.000 Yeah, that's a good point.

00:23:23.000 Probably would have stopped it at the press conference.

00:23:24.000 That fucking 12th round, that right-left that Deontay landed, the fact that Tyson got up and then won the remainder of the round, that is crazy.

00:23:33.000 Yeah.

00:23:33.000 I am so frustrated that that fight's not happening again.

00:23:36.000 Man, you know, I'm looking at the heavyweight scene and I'm looking at obviously Joshua from England.

00:23:46.000 And, you know, he had the opportunity to fight Deontay and didn't take it.

00:23:50.000 I'm like, if that was me, I would have took that chance because you never know what happens down the road like what's happening now.

00:23:56.000 And, you know, to me, he's being put on the shelf.

00:23:59.000 Now he has to box somebody that nobody really wants him to box.

00:24:02.000 Who's he fighting next?

00:24:03.000 Yeah.

00:24:03.000 Baby.

00:24:04.000 Baby Miller.

00:24:05.000 Oh, Big Baby Miller?

00:24:05.000 Big Baby Miller.

00:24:06.000 Yeah.

00:24:07.000 You know, Big Baby Miller, I haven't seen too much of him.

00:24:10.000 I don't know too much about him, but, you know, he talks a good fight.

00:24:13.000 I know he weighed over 300 pounds at one time.

00:24:17.000 He's a big baby.

00:24:18.000 And, yeah.

00:24:19.000 And, you know, now he's got an opportunity to fight Joshua, so he's taking full advantage of it like he should.

00:24:26.000 But, you know...

00:24:29.000 I don't see anything in his history to show me that he can beat Joshua.

00:24:34.000 Who have you beaten?

00:24:35.000 He can bang, though.

00:24:36.000 He can bang if you're there to bang.

00:24:38.000 Joshua's got feet.

00:24:39.000 He's going to move.

00:24:40.000 He's not going to stay there and bang.

00:24:41.000 He's an excellent boxer.

00:24:43.000 Yeah, he's going to be a smart boxer in this fight.

00:24:46.000 Allegedly.

00:24:47.000 We'll see.

00:24:47.000 Never know.

00:24:49.000 Yeah, I mean, these are one of those things where I think this is where Anthony's got to be extra careful because Miller's going to train twice as hard and if Joshua doesn't train like he's fighting Deontay, he may take it for granted, make a mistake.

00:25:03.000 And you can do that.

00:25:04.000 I've done that.

00:25:05.000 And it's nothing that he's done on purpose.

00:25:08.000 It's a mental thing.

00:25:10.000 Yeah, it's a mental thing.

00:25:11.000 Like when you fought Marvovich.

00:25:12.000 Yeah.

00:25:13.000 That guy wouldn't go home.

00:25:14.000 Wouldn't go home.

00:25:15.000 That guy wouldn't go home.

00:25:16.000 He gave me a lot of trouble.

00:25:17.000 I was at that fight.

00:25:18.000 He gave me a lot of trouble.

00:25:21.000 Lennox boxed this guy around the ring for 12 rounds.

00:25:23.000 Literally, the guy's head's snapping back, and this guy's not going anywhere.

00:25:28.000 He was going nowhere.

00:25:30.000 That's got to be a weird feeling, too, when you know how hard you punch, and you see a guy just eating him.

00:25:36.000 Some people just are built weird.

00:25:38.000 They just can take a shot.

00:25:39.000 No, I learned that coming up.

00:25:41.000 I learned that some guys that are tough to the head are weak to the body.

00:25:45.000 Some guys that are tough to the body are weak to the head.

00:25:48.000 And some guys are just made out of rocks.

00:25:50.000 Yeah.

00:25:51.000 Yeah, it's almost like an ignorant bliss.

00:25:54.000 They just don't know they're supposed to feel pain.

00:25:56.000 I don't know.

00:25:57.000 I mean, I really think it's a physiological thing.

00:25:59.000 I think some guys can just take a shot.

00:26:01.000 They're just built better.

00:26:03.000 Sometimes, I've been in fights where I've gone and the man's hit me on the chin first couple minutes, and it's like he just glanced off my chin.

00:26:12.000 It's like I ate it up.

00:26:13.000 Ate the punch up, and it didn't hurt me.

00:26:15.000 And I was like, what happened to that punch?

00:26:16.000 It was so hard, it hit you on the chin.

00:26:19.000 Everybody was saying, yo, did you see that punch?

00:26:20.000 You never felt it?

00:26:21.000 I'm like, no.

00:26:22.000 And when I look at tape of it, it's like, wow, I did get hit.

00:26:26.000 Is it because, like, are there a bunch of factors?

00:26:29.000 Like how much you got hit in training, how well you feel coming into the fight, where you're at in your career?

00:26:35.000 Yeah, there's a lot of factors.

00:26:36.000 Like, for instance, let me give you a wicked factor.

00:26:38.000 If you haven't boxed for two years, And all of a sudden you step into the ring and it's a title fight and you box.

00:26:45.000 The first good hit you get is going to concuss you.

00:26:48.000 Really?

00:26:49.000 Because you haven't been getting those hits for that two years.

00:26:52.000 Now this man hit you with the two years and you're getting used to it and you've felt it and you've gotten over it.

00:27:01.000 You need to get over that hill.

00:27:02.000 Is it a mental hill?

00:27:03.000 It is a mental hill because even for me, for me when I haven't fought for a while, you know, I go out there.

00:27:09.000 Until I get hit...

00:27:11.000 Once I get hit, that wakes everything up.

00:27:13.000 It's like, yo, this is not supposed to go like that.

00:27:16.000 You're not supposed to hit me.

00:27:17.000 I'm supposed to hit you.

00:27:18.000 So I get going.

00:27:21.000 So the Hasim Rahman fight, after it was over, were you worried that you were not going to get a rematch?

00:27:27.000 Yes.

00:27:28.000 I was very worried.

00:27:29.000 In fact, we chased him to three courts around the world.

00:27:34.000 And he didn't want to fight me.

00:27:36.000 And if I was in this position, I wouldn't want to fight me either because I'm coming back for revenge.

00:27:41.000 Plus, there's a big money fight out there with Tyson, which he so happened to say after the fight.

00:27:48.000 No more Lewis Tyson!

00:27:50.000 No more Lewis Tyson!

00:27:51.000 And he actually left...

00:27:54.000 South Africa without visiting Mandela.

00:27:57.000 Like, why you go to Africa and not visit Mandela?

00:27:59.000 I did.

00:28:00.000 He just wanted to get out of there.

00:28:02.000 Take that belt.

00:28:03.000 And that $7 million that he got off of Don King.

00:28:08.000 So, the fight got made again because after the third courtroom, the judge says, whose signature is this?

00:28:17.000 Haseem said it was his.

00:28:18.000 You signed it?

00:28:19.000 Yes.

00:28:20.000 Well, you got to give him the rematch.

00:28:22.000 You signed it to give him a rematch, so you have to give him a rematch.

00:28:24.000 So he didn't want to hear that.

00:28:25.000 So I was happy.

00:28:27.000 How long did it take?

00:28:29.000 Two years.

00:28:30.000 And there was all those brawls in the, remember the ESPN studio when him and Rachman got into a fight?

00:28:36.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:28:36.000 They knocked over the table and everything.

00:28:38.000 Yeah.

00:28:38.000 Lennox was wearing his big Steve Harvey suit.

00:28:40.000 Did you?

00:28:41.000 Steve Harvey suit!

00:28:42.000 Let me tell you, it was a Steve Harvey suit, too.

00:28:45.000 Because I had the slippery shoes in the world.

00:28:48.000 I didn't come there to fight.

00:28:49.000 Right, right.

00:28:49.000 I came there to, like, you know, do press.

00:28:52.000 Those slippery shoes are the worst.

00:28:53.000 If anything goes down, you got those leather shoulder shoes.

00:28:56.000 Oh, yeah, you're done.

00:28:56.000 Oh, my God.

00:28:57.000 On carpet?

00:28:57.000 Whoop!

00:28:58.000 Yeah, no.

00:28:59.000 Rockman went shh.

00:29:00.000 I went shh.

00:29:01.000 That's when you got to learn jujitsu.

00:29:03.000 Now when you were in that time period, I don't remember, did you have fights in between?

00:29:09.000 Yeah.

00:29:10.000 How many fights did you have after Rockman?

00:29:12.000 Oh no, I didn't have no fights in between.

00:29:13.000 No fights in between?

00:29:13.000 No, I just trained for Rockman.

00:29:15.000 Just waited?

00:29:16.000 Yeah.

00:29:16.000 So it took you two years?

00:29:18.000 Two years.

00:29:18.000 God, that must have been so frustrating.

00:29:20.000 It was, it was, because you never know if you're going to get the fight or not, or, you know, these guys are running from you, they signed to fight a rematch because, you know, now they didn't want to sign it.

00:29:29.000 I remember when that right hand landed.

00:29:31.000 I remember when I was watching it at home and I threw my arms up in the air.

00:29:35.000 I was like, oh shit, yes!

00:29:38.000 That one went to sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep, but it was a hammer.

00:29:42.000 Let's check this out, man.

00:29:43.000 I mean, for a long time coming, you're waiting for it.

00:29:48.000 You know, for this fight, Rockman couldn't catch me because my speed was different.

00:29:52.000 You know, in South Africa, it was a lot slower.

00:29:55.000 Now, he got kind of a little frustrated because he couldn't catch me.

00:29:58.000 Boom!

00:29:59.000 Yep.

00:30:00.000 Oh, man.

00:30:01.000 Over the top of the shoulder.

00:30:03.000 Joe Cortez, let him count still.

00:30:05.000 Oh, that was a phenomenal punch.

00:30:07.000 That was probably one of the most satisfying one-punch knockouts I've ever watched.

00:30:11.000 Yeah.

00:30:12.000 Because I knew what you had gone through, and I knew, like, everybody knew you were one of the greatest of all time.

00:30:17.000 Man.

00:30:17.000 To have you get KO'd like that, first of all, it endeared people to you in a way because it showed your vulnerability but also your character and your ability to come back, which is not easy, man.

00:30:28.000 When you get stopped like that, psychologically, it's got to be fucking with your head.

00:30:33.000 Let me tell you, the first time I lost, everybody was coming up and shaking my hand and said, well, what are you going to do now?

00:30:39.000 I'm like, what do you mean, what am I going to do now?

00:30:42.000 Yeah, well, what are you going to do now?

00:30:43.000 I'm going to go back and win my championship.

00:30:45.000 I said, okay.

00:30:46.000 You know, they didn't think it was going to be possible, but I'm thinking, Muhammad Ali gained the championship three times.

00:30:54.000 So I've only lost it once.

00:30:56.000 I can do it again.

00:30:58.000 It takes a special person to do it, and I can do it.

00:31:01.000 Do you feel like there was two stages of your career, like pre-Emmanuel Stewart and post?

00:31:05.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:31:07.000 There's two sizes of them, too, then, if you look at it.

00:31:10.000 And seriously, he went from a skinny kid to a man, like a giant fucking man out of nowhere.

00:31:17.000 Yeah.

00:31:18.000 The pre-Emmanuel Stewart was obviously, you know, me learning how to be a professional, learning to fight pro.

00:31:27.000 And then once I got to Emmanuel, we just like, yo, he said, hey, you're a great fighter.

00:31:33.000 You know, you used to move around a lot.

00:31:35.000 We've got to bring that back.

00:31:36.000 I'm like, okay, cool.

00:31:38.000 So the movement he brought back, he taught me a couple Kronk tricks, you know, that check hook and different things that the Kronk fighters do, which works well.

00:31:48.000 And, you know, he was easy to understand.

00:31:51.000 And what I liked about him, what he said, I can do, I could accomplish.

00:31:56.000 He just told me what to do, I'll do it.

00:31:58.000 If he said, Len, we need to win this round, I'll win that round.

00:32:01.000 Yeah, you had that kind of relationship, right?

00:32:04.000 He was really one of the great masters.

00:32:06.000 There's certain masters when it comes to boxing training.

00:32:10.000 When you would hear him discuss fighters, I really loved hearing him do commentary as well because he would discuss fighters and what they need to do and he was always just dead on.

00:32:19.000 He just knew things.

00:32:21.000 He understood boxing so comprehensively.

00:32:24.000 He just knew what a fighter needed to do.

00:32:27.000 So I was so excited when he started working with you because I was like, well, that's exactly what Lennox needs.

00:32:32.000 So was HBO because, you know, it's funny.

00:32:35.000 I'll do fights on HBO and they will say, oh, he's doing this.

00:32:38.000 He's not doing this.

00:32:39.000 He needs to do more.

00:32:40.000 He needs to throw the jab more.

00:32:41.000 Then Emmanuel started working for me and he's like, oh, he's doing the jab.

00:32:44.000 He's doing well.

00:32:45.000 I was like, oh, this is what you need.

00:32:46.000 You need a great coach.

00:32:48.000 Anytime you go in on TV that the commentators respect, then they'll talk good about the boxer.

00:32:53.000 But if you're not a good trainer, it's like, what do they need to talk about?

00:32:56.000 They talk a lot of shit in boxing commentary.

00:32:59.000 Oh, yeah.

00:32:59.000 And they let you know whose side they're on.

00:33:01.000 Yeah.

00:33:02.000 They always let you know.

00:33:03.000 You could talk about how they're guiding your brain to watch the fight.

00:33:07.000 Well, they talk a little shit.

00:33:08.000 It's more like sports commentary.

00:33:11.000 Like mixed martial arts commentary.

00:33:14.000 I don't do that.

00:33:15.000 I don't really talk shit ever.

00:33:17.000 I mean, occasionally if something's egregiously bad, I'll talk about those real issues here.

00:33:23.000 But I try to just address it technically.

00:33:26.000 You try to compliment both of them?

00:33:28.000 I try hard.

00:33:28.000 I try hard at that.

00:33:29.000 Because I wasn't always.

00:33:32.000 I'd learned how to do it on the job.

00:33:33.000 Nobody really knew how to do it.

00:33:34.000 There wasn't a lot of people doing it before I started doing it.

00:33:37.000 Well, it sucks for you because you're fighting with all the fighters.

00:33:39.000 Yeah.

00:33:40.000 It's hard when you watch a friend of yours fuck up another friend of yours.

00:33:43.000 Yeah.

00:33:43.000 That's hard.

00:33:44.000 What about a friend of yours that's doing something wrong that needs to do something right?

00:33:49.000 Do you tell him?

00:33:50.000 Yeah, I tell him privately.

00:33:52.000 See, for me, I wish I was like that.

00:33:56.000 I wish I could do that.

00:33:57.000 But, you know, people want more truth out of me.

00:33:59.000 So I try and bring it across in a soft way and not make it too harsh.

00:34:03.000 I would say there's issues.

00:34:05.000 I see something.

00:34:06.000 If I see a vulnerability, I'll discuss that.

00:34:10.000 But if there's something that someone needs to work on or do, I'll try to pull them aside.

00:34:14.000 But most of them, no.

00:34:18.000 MMA fighters, I'm sure a lot like boxers, there's different kinds of humans, and some of them are just fucking wild.

00:34:25.000 And those wild ones, a lot of times they never become champion, but they're the most exciting people to watch.

00:34:30.000 Like Mickey Ward.

00:34:32.000 Mickey Ward's fights with Arturo Gatti, they're some of the greatest, because the way they matched up, I would never want one of my friends to fight like that.

00:34:40.000 Yeah, two lunatics in one ring.

00:34:42.000 Oh my god, man, those fights were chaos, though.

00:34:44.000 Everybody knew that those guys, they're never going to beat Mayweather, they're never going to beat the best guys, but god damn, they were fun to watch.

00:34:52.000 Some of the craziest, craziest fights.

00:34:53.000 They were like our generation's prior Arguello almost.

00:34:57.000 Almost.

00:34:58.000 Except they went back and forth and back and forth, you know?

00:35:01.000 Who was it that had an arm injury and still boxed?

00:35:05.000 Was it Mickey Ward?

00:35:06.000 No, wasn't it Bernard Hopkins when he fought Antoine Echols?

00:35:10.000 I might be wrong.

00:35:12.000 You mean like a permanent, like a broken arm?

00:35:14.000 Someone got their arm broke in a...

00:35:16.000 Or pulled out.

00:35:17.000 I think that was Antoine Echols.

00:35:20.000 It might have been against Hopkins or it was against somebody, but the guy picked him up and slammed him and he dislocated his shoulder.

00:35:27.000 And then the ref was like, should I stop the fight?

00:35:29.000 He's like, no, no, no.

00:35:30.000 And he knocked the guy with the left hook after.

00:35:33.000 But Hopkins got slammed and they stopped the fight and then he came back and won the rematch.

00:35:38.000 Remember that?

00:35:39.000 Yes, but I recall the guy knocking him out in the next round with his left hand only.

00:35:45.000 Was that Hopkins?

00:35:46.000 It might have been Hopkins-Echols, if I'm not mistaken.

00:35:48.000 I'll tell you what, man.

00:35:49.000 One of the hardest fights for me to watch was Hopkins versus Joe Smith.

00:35:53.000 That was a bummer.

00:35:54.000 When he got knocked out and fell out of the ropes and landed on his head.

00:35:57.000 I was like, man, that is just...

00:35:59.000 First of all, the fact that there was no padding on the ground.

00:36:02.000 This is Bernard Hopkins.

00:36:04.000 It's one of the greatest of all time.

00:36:06.000 And this is how this is set up.

00:36:09.000 They don't put padded on the ground.

00:36:11.000 They need to have something there.

00:36:13.000 Maybe more of an apron.

00:36:15.000 They have to put more people around the ring.

00:36:18.000 So if anybody comes flying out, it's like, yo!

00:36:20.000 That's how they do it in Japan.

00:36:22.000 In Pride, they would have guys waiting.

00:36:36.000 Yeah, it is.

00:36:50.000 He went through, fell right on his head.

00:36:52.000 And if somebody helps you up, the fight's over.

00:36:54.000 Is that it?

00:36:55.000 Yeah, you get disqualified the minute somebody helps you back into the ring.

00:36:58.000 Oh, really?

00:36:59.000 Yeah, you have to get up on your own and get back in on your own.

00:37:01.000 People don't know about that, eh?

00:37:02.000 Yeah, you're good.

00:37:04.000 That's interesting.

00:37:05.000 Little details, kids.

00:37:06.000 They could have ruined the fight for him if he was okay.

00:37:08.000 Yeah.

00:37:09.000 Like, if he was okay, if he fell and then someone helps him get back up.

00:37:12.000 Yeah.

00:37:12.000 Oh, that's interesting.

00:37:14.000 Yeah.

00:37:15.000 Somebody be shouting, don't touch him!

00:37:16.000 Don't touch him!

00:37:17.000 Get up!

00:37:18.000 But nobody knows if he's alright or not.

00:37:20.000 Right.

00:37:21.000 Especially when you see him land on us.

00:37:22.000 It's human nature to run and help.

00:37:23.000 Well, it's also he's 50 or 51, right?

00:37:27.000 Wasn't he 51?

00:37:28.000 Yeah, he was not young in that fight.

00:37:29.000 When you see a guy like him, like, how the fuck does a guy like that defy the odds and defy time?

00:37:36.000 I mean, it's just his skill level?

00:37:38.000 Experience.

00:37:39.000 Experience, intelligence.

00:37:40.000 Bernard Hopkins is an intelligent fighter.

00:37:43.000 He's like, you know, you watch him fight, he's smart.

00:37:45.000 Yeah.

00:37:45.000 And doesn't spend one day out of shape.

00:37:47.000 Yeah.

00:37:48.000 And eats clean.

00:37:49.000 Yep.

00:37:49.000 Doesn't party.

00:37:51.000 Yeah.

00:37:51.000 He still, to this day, I follow his Instagram.

00:37:53.000 He's always training.

00:37:54.000 He's always exercising.

00:37:55.000 Still looks slim.

00:37:56.000 Still looks good.

00:37:57.000 Yeah.

00:37:57.000 He's got true focus.

00:37:58.000 Yeah.

00:37:59.000 Yep.

00:37:59.000 It's interesting that he became that way, like in his estimation, because of prison time.

00:38:05.000 Going to prison turned him into a disciplined man.

00:38:09.000 Realizing this is rock bottom.

00:38:11.000 I fucked up.

00:38:12.000 I need to get my life in order.

00:38:13.000 And did.

00:38:16.000 Imagine the people out there that commit a crime, spend three, four years in jail because of some stupid crime.

00:38:24.000 They could spend that time training and being a world champion.

00:38:28.000 Yeah.

00:38:28.000 At something.

00:38:29.000 Yeah, at anything.

00:38:31.000 Well, just develop, use that time to develop yourself.

00:38:34.000 Develop your mind, you know?

00:38:36.000 I mean, when Hopkins was, they were already writing him off when he fought Felix Trinidad.

00:38:42.000 Remember that?

00:38:43.000 Yeah.

00:38:44.000 Everybody thought Trinidad was going to run him over.

00:38:46.000 Do you remember the shit he pulled in Puerto Rico?

00:38:48.000 He threw the flag and chased him to the stadium.

00:38:53.000 And he had to make that six or seven foot jump to the ground and he was scared he was going to break his leg.

00:39:00.000 Hilarious.

00:39:01.000 I forgot about that.

00:39:02.000 That was crazy.

00:39:03.000 They chased him out of the stadium.

00:39:05.000 I'm sure Tito had so much on his mind in that fight.

00:39:09.000 So much emotions.

00:39:10.000 You know, and then...

00:39:11.000 That was the mental warfare that Bernard brought into that one.

00:39:14.000 For sure.

00:39:14.000 But then also, he was just too good.

00:39:17.000 Yeah.

00:39:18.000 He was too good.

00:39:19.000 I mean, he was just...

00:39:19.000 And he was too big.

00:39:21.000 He hit too hard.

00:39:22.000 Like, Trinidad really was a lighter weight fighter than that.

00:39:25.000 He was a junior middleweight.

00:39:26.000 Yeah.

00:39:26.000 Broner did that same thing.

00:39:28.000 Almost got done, too.

00:39:29.000 Mm-hmm.

00:39:29.000 Yeah.

00:39:30.000 Yeah.

00:39:31.000 Exactly.

00:39:31.000 Threw it down.

00:39:33.000 Oh, man.

00:39:33.000 That was crazy.

00:39:35.000 Yeah.

00:39:35.000 That was crazy.

00:39:36.000 Yeah.

00:39:36.000 And, you know, this was, I think Bernard was like 36 at the time.

00:39:40.000 Look at him, they're all swinging at him and shit.

00:39:42.000 That's that jump he had to do, right?

00:39:45.000 He was trying to get out of there, for real.

00:39:47.000 If he just turned, it would have stopped.

00:39:49.000 If he turned, it would have probably went, oh, what am I doing?

00:39:51.000 Chasing a tiger?

00:39:53.000 Yeah.

00:39:54.000 You didn't chase a tiger and you catch it, you got a real fucking problem.

00:39:58.000 Did you ever have any thoughts at all once you'd finally retired?

00:40:02.000 Like, man, maybe one more.

00:40:04.000 Did you ever have any thoughts like that?

00:40:05.000 Well, you know, I told people, like, I'll take my pajamas off for 100 mil.

00:40:12.000 So if you're serious, come with it, baby.

00:40:16.000 Show me the paper.

00:40:17.000 But who would that have to be against?

00:40:20.000 AJ, maybe?

00:40:21.000 No, me and Tyson again.

00:40:24.000 But when you had beaten Tyson...

00:40:26.000 You'd beat Tyson that was kind of at the end of his stage too, right?

00:40:29.000 Yeah.

00:40:30.000 He wasn't the same guy.

00:40:31.000 I looked at Tyson's history.

00:40:34.000 He's coming from the same history that I'm coming from.

00:40:38.000 And he spent some time in incarceration.

00:40:41.000 While he was in incarceration, I'm still out there fighting and training hard.

00:40:45.000 He didn't have that in there.

00:40:48.000 So when he came out, it's like...

00:40:51.000 He's training again.

00:40:52.000 He's doing what he knows, not what he loves, but what he knows.

00:40:56.000 That's what's going to make him some money.

00:40:58.000 That's going to put food on his table.

00:41:00.000 So it's like I look at old time fighters and say, what made them stay in boxing so long?

00:41:06.000 We're good to go.

00:41:35.000 Well, there was no, I mean, you know, you had to go see it live.

00:41:39.000 You know, like, how much did you get paid for the radio?

00:41:41.000 Who was that?

00:41:42.000 Was it Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney that was the first million dollar gate?

00:41:47.000 I think so.

00:41:48.000 It was one of those.

00:41:48.000 Ray Arcel did that fight, I think.

00:41:50.000 Isn't that crazy?

00:41:50.000 What is a million dollars back then, too?

00:41:53.000 That's a lot of money back then.

00:41:54.000 That was in the 1920s, right?

00:41:55.000 Yeah.

00:41:56.000 Didn't you say Jack...

00:41:57.000 Gene Tunney, Jack Dempsey?

00:41:58.000 Gene, yes, Gene Tunney.

00:41:59.000 Yeah.

00:42:01.000 When Tyson was in jail, he must have been doing something because he came out jacked.

00:42:06.000 He looked good.

00:42:07.000 He came out looking different than he ever looked.

00:42:10.000 Six-pack, fully built.

00:42:12.000 When he fought Peter McNeely, he looked scary as shit.

00:42:15.000 He looked terrifying.

00:42:16.000 But physically, he looked really good, too.

00:42:18.000 He looked better than he ever looked.

00:42:19.000 More ripped than ever.

00:42:21.000 When he went in, he was a little chubby.

00:42:24.000 What is it of doing there?

00:42:25.000 Yeah, there's nothing else to do.

00:42:27.000 Fuck dudes.

00:42:29.000 That's what I hear.

00:42:30.000 I don't know.

00:42:31.000 I mean, how many dudes before it's enough, you know?

00:42:35.000 Depends on how much time you're in there for.

00:42:37.000 Yeah, that was him when he came out.

00:42:39.000 Yeah, he was shredded.

00:42:40.000 And he was so much more muscular, so he probably couldn't do any sparring.

00:42:45.000 I doubt they had a heavy bag, but they probably had a weight room, you know?

00:42:48.000 Yeah, but you can fight in prison.

00:42:50.000 He was like 28, 29 there.

00:42:52.000 It depends on what prison, right?

00:42:53.000 Yeah.

00:42:54.000 No, I'm saying even fight.

00:42:55.000 Just fight.

00:42:56.000 Oh, fight people.

00:42:57.000 Yeah.

00:42:58.000 You know what?

00:42:59.000 You know, somebody would have tried to start some shit with him.

00:43:01.000 Oh, I'm sure.

00:43:02.000 If not a guard even, you know?

00:43:05.000 Yeah, I bet.

00:43:06.000 I bet he had to listen to a lot of shitty things from guards.

00:43:09.000 It's funny when I seen him be arrested, taken from the courtroom, and they must have got the biggest guy they could ever get to go put handcuffs on him or something like that.

00:43:21.000 Anyway, situation that I hope a lot of people stay away from.

00:43:25.000 Yeah, when he went away, did you feel like, damn it, I'm going to miss out on that fight that I won?

00:43:30.000 Yes, straight away.

00:43:32.000 He's like, oh no, I'm going to have to wait and delay my retirement.

00:43:36.000 Oh, so you were considering retirement even before he was incarcerated?

00:43:41.000 Yeah.

00:43:41.000 Wow, interesting.

00:43:43.000 But then you were chasing the bow fight.

00:43:44.000 Bow fight, chicken bow.

00:43:47.000 You know, you figured that...

00:43:49.000 Chicken bow?

00:43:50.000 Yeah.

00:43:50.000 Is that what you call them?

00:43:51.000 You call them Ridiculous Bo.

00:43:53.000 Ridiculous Bo, Chicken Bo.

00:43:55.000 Tried to pick a fight with me the other day.

00:43:58.000 Did he really?

00:43:58.000 The other day he did?

00:43:59.000 Yeah.

00:44:00.000 Where?

00:44:02.000 At a fight in LA, where they called all the great ones on, Jerry Cooney, me, Foreman, Spinks was there.

00:44:10.000 And what was he doing?

00:44:11.000 He wanted to stand beside me and take a picture.

00:44:15.000 I'm like, dude, you can't stand beside me.

00:44:17.000 He goes, I'll stand where I want to stand.

00:44:19.000 I'm like, dude, you're going to have to move.

00:44:22.000 So Jerry Cooney kind of helped us out there.

00:44:25.000 Wow.

00:44:25.000 And saved him.

00:44:27.000 Because he can't really speak.

00:44:29.000 Yeah, he can't.

00:44:29.000 He's had a rough time.

00:44:31.000 The difference between a guy like you who gets out, who speaks perfect, and a guy like him, he's the warning.

00:44:39.000 That's the warning to the young fighter.

00:44:41.000 You see the older guy who...

00:44:43.000 I saw an interview with him, and it was one of the saddest things I've ever seen.

00:44:48.000 It was horrible.

00:44:49.000 Because I go back and I think about those fights with Holyfield, those fucking crazy wars.

00:44:52.000 Those were insane.

00:44:53.000 And he paid that price, man.

00:44:55.000 He paid that price.

00:44:57.000 Yeah.

00:44:57.000 You can hear it when he's talking now.

00:44:59.000 It's rough.

00:45:00.000 It's hard to listen to.

00:45:00.000 I think the good news is now we're on the other side of fighters coming out that punchy.

00:45:05.000 I think with all the rules and changes that have been made.

00:45:08.000 What changes?

00:45:09.000 You won't meet as many punchy guys as you met from back in the day.

00:45:13.000 You listen to Purnell, you listen to Riddick, you listen to Meldrick Taylor.

00:45:18.000 Is Purnell bad now?

00:45:20.000 Yeah, he's a little...

00:45:21.000 And Purnell never even got hit that much.

00:45:23.000 He was the best.

00:45:24.000 But I think Purnell's is probably more from...

00:45:27.000 Cocaine makes you slur your words?

00:45:28.000 I don't know, man.

00:45:29.000 You do enough shit in your life.

00:45:31.000 He drinks.

00:45:31.000 He drinks a lot.

00:45:32.000 Oh, is he drinking?

00:45:33.000 I got drunk with Purnell once.

00:45:35.000 One of the things that they say with older fighters, and even older football players, is they become addicted to alcohol because they're searching for something to try to recalibrate their brain.

00:45:48.000 There's a scientific explanation to it.

00:45:50.000 People talk about people with traumatic brain injury often become alcoholics.

00:45:55.000 It's like they're trying to get some sort of a dopamine rush.

00:45:58.000 You could also use the alcohol as a justification as to why you're slurring your speech.

00:46:02.000 Well, I know a dude who's an MMA fighter.

00:46:06.000 He's punchy.

00:46:07.000 He's had a bunch of shots.

00:46:08.000 And this motherfucker will have one drink, and you can't understand a word he's saying.

00:46:12.000 It hits them so hard.

00:46:14.000 So hard.

00:46:16.000 It's confusing.

00:46:17.000 It's like, how are you that drunk?

00:46:19.000 And then you realize, oh, this is both things.

00:46:22.000 It's both things.

00:46:23.000 It's...

00:46:24.000 It's the brain damage and the alcohol combined, just the wheels come off the carry.

00:46:29.000 It's bad.

00:46:29.000 Yeah, it's awful.

00:46:31.000 But you made it out perfect, man.

00:46:33.000 You nailed it.

00:46:34.000 So far, so far.

00:46:36.000 So far.

00:46:36.000 Yeah, years will tell.

00:46:37.000 Yeah?

00:46:38.000 Do you worry about that?

00:46:41.000 Not really.

00:46:42.000 I try and keep my mind active.

00:46:44.000 I play a lot of chess.

00:46:45.000 Yeah.

00:46:45.000 How often do you play chess?

00:46:47.000 Every day.

00:46:48.000 Really?

00:46:48.000 Yeah.

00:46:49.000 Do you play online?

00:46:50.000 Do you play competitively?

00:46:51.000 I play online.

00:46:52.000 Yeah.

00:46:53.000 Whoever jumps in the battle.

00:46:55.000 How good are you?

00:46:56.000 Pretty good.

00:46:56.000 Very.

00:46:56.000 Yeah?

00:46:57.000 Yeah, pretty good.

00:46:57.000 He's a bully.

00:46:59.000 Did you play you?

00:47:00.000 He used to get mad at me because I'd go to his house and be like, you want to play chess?

00:47:04.000 I go, I don't know.

00:47:05.000 Just play.

00:47:06.000 I'm like, I don't know how I play.

00:47:07.000 Just beat me and be like, get out of here.

00:47:09.000 Just move.

00:47:10.000 Bring me somebody to play.

00:47:11.000 Do you study chess?

00:47:13.000 Not as much as I should.

00:47:15.000 I just play often.

00:47:18.000 And, you know, when you play often...

00:47:24.000 Right.

00:47:37.000 So it really depends on what type of player they are.

00:47:40.000 You're right.

00:47:41.000 I'm a bully player.

00:47:42.000 I like playing.

00:47:42.000 You know what?

00:47:43.000 He is the Joe Rogan of pool to Lennox of chess.

00:47:47.000 Well, listen.

00:47:47.000 In my defense, Lennox challenged me.

00:47:50.000 He wanted to play.

00:47:50.000 He thought he could play.

00:47:52.000 Just so people don't know.

00:47:54.000 Don't challenge anybody on their own table.

00:47:56.000 Lennox challenged Joe to a game of pool before the podcast.

00:47:59.000 And Joe fucking cleared the table before Lennox could get one shot off.

00:48:03.000 Yeah, it was good.

00:48:04.000 That was the warm-up.

00:48:06.000 Well, I won the second game, too.

00:48:08.000 Yeah, he did win the second game as well.

00:48:09.000 I'm still warming up!

00:48:11.000 Alright, we'll go back.

00:48:12.000 He's got time deficit.

00:48:13.000 That's a crazy game, though, on that table, because that table has four-inch pockets.

00:48:18.000 That's my practice table.

00:48:20.000 I'll give you a four-inch pocket.

00:48:21.000 Hey!

00:48:22.000 Wait a minute.

00:48:22.000 Whoa!

00:48:23.000 Where are you putting it?

00:48:25.000 I have a regular table at home.

00:48:27.000 Well, not a regular table.

00:48:27.000 It's a diamond.

00:48:28.000 It's got four and a half inch pockets.

00:48:29.000 It's still a little tight.

00:48:31.000 A normal pocket.

00:48:32.000 Like, if you go to a pool hall, they'll give you a five inch pocket or a five and a half inch pocket.

00:48:36.000 Yeah, I got a pool table at home.

00:48:37.000 It's got fucking buckets.

00:48:38.000 I got the abyss.

00:48:39.000 Yeah, this table, you can't miss.

00:48:42.000 And it's dirty right now, too.

00:48:44.000 So it's even like the cloth is slow.

00:48:47.000 So, balls don't drop unless they go right through the center.

00:48:50.000 What type of cloth is that?

00:48:51.000 Blood cloth.

00:48:52.000 Yes, that's the best.

00:48:53.000 That's the best one.

00:48:54.000 Yeah, it's the best.

00:48:56.000 It's a great table.

00:48:57.000 That's a 1972 pool table.

00:48:58.000 Oh, really?

00:48:59.000 Some guy had it in his basement forever, and my friend Donnie sold it to me.

00:49:03.000 Yeah, the guy just had it sitting in his basement.

00:49:04.000 It's in perfect condition.

00:49:06.000 It's a basement find.

00:49:07.000 Yeah.

00:49:07.000 Man, that's a hard table to get.

00:49:09.000 Where was this?

00:49:10.000 Somewhere in California.

00:49:11.000 You know what I love about that table?

00:49:13.000 What?

00:49:13.000 Guess what?

00:49:14.000 What?

00:49:15.000 You don't have to walk around and take the balls out of the pockets.

00:49:18.000 Yeah, yeah, that's annoying.

00:49:20.000 Yeah.

00:49:20.000 It's like ball return.

00:49:21.000 They're all there.

00:49:22.000 Boom.

00:49:22.000 Yeah, those holes when you have to walk around.

00:49:25.000 Yeah, I got those.

00:49:26.000 I got those.

00:49:26.000 It's annoying.

00:49:27.000 But you probably have like a decorative pool table.

00:49:29.000 Yeah, it came with the house.

00:49:30.000 You have a beautiful house.

00:49:31.000 I've never been there.

00:49:33.000 You've been invited many times.

00:49:35.000 He's been to my house when I was with my parents.

00:49:36.000 He never came to my house as a solo man.

00:49:41.000 Now, when you play chess, do you get ranked?

00:49:46.000 Are you in a league?

00:49:48.000 What it is, is your points go up.

00:49:52.000 So I'm at 1100 right now.

00:49:56.000 What is that?

00:49:57.000 Well, the rankings are like, if you're up to 14, you're a master.

00:50:01.000 So you're closing in on being a master.

00:50:03.000 Well, I wouldn't call me a master yet, but obviously if I get that, I'm trying to get as high as possible.

00:50:10.000 But if someone talks shit and they're like, Lennox, I want to play you some chess, you'd be like, oh, okay.

00:50:15.000 Yeah, straight away.

00:50:17.000 What's one of the most mentally intensive games?

00:50:19.000 It's probably one reason why you stay so sharp, I would imagine.

00:50:23.000 Yeah, there's a time restriction, 10 minutes.

00:50:25.000 So you played that, where you hit the slap the clock?

00:50:28.000 Yeah, well on...

00:50:29.000 10 minutes for a move or 10 minutes for the whole game?

00:50:31.000 For the whole game.

00:50:31.000 Oh, damn.

00:50:32.000 Whoa.

00:50:32.000 On the...

00:50:33.000 It's a fast game.

00:50:36.000 Yeah, on the computer, once you've made that move, the time goes over.

00:50:39.000 It just resets.

00:50:41.000 So it's good.

00:50:42.000 Now, do you ever go to Washington Square Park and play those dudes?

00:50:44.000 Done.

00:50:45.000 Really?

00:50:45.000 Yeah.

00:50:46.000 That was fun.

00:50:48.000 They talk a lot of shit, huh?

00:50:49.000 Oh yeah, they're good too.

00:50:51.000 They're good.

00:50:52.000 The guy I was playing was talking a lot of shit.

00:50:54.000 Yeah?

00:50:54.000 Yeah.

00:50:55.000 Did you beat him?

00:50:56.000 Oh, no.

00:50:57.000 Wow.

00:50:58.000 You should have hit him.

00:50:59.000 Why did you have to ask that question?

00:51:00.000 It was just fun playing him.

00:51:03.000 Does there have to be a winner all the time?

00:51:05.000 Those guys are masters.

00:51:06.000 It's true.

00:51:06.000 They got nothing else going on.

00:51:08.000 Well, I mean, that's all they want to do.

00:51:10.000 When you get really good at chess, and I'm not really good at chess, but I have friends that are, they explain to you, like, it becomes your whole life.

00:51:17.000 Like, you start thinking, like, as you're walking down the street, you're thinking about chess.

00:51:21.000 It becomes a thing where it's just everything.

00:51:24.000 It's such an intense game.

00:51:27.000 Yeah, I play like at least four games a day.

00:51:30.000 Wow.

00:51:30.000 Online?

00:51:31.000 Damn.

00:51:31.000 Yeah.

00:51:32.000 What's your online name?

00:51:34.000 Do you use an online name?

00:51:35.000 Yes, I do.

00:51:36.000 You don't use your real name, right?

00:51:37.000 I'm going to get it right now.

00:51:39.000 It's...

00:51:39.000 Uh-oh.

00:51:40.000 Uh-oh.

00:51:40.000 Let the shalom...

00:51:41.000 Because I made this name a long time ago.

00:51:44.000 Look at you.

00:51:45.000 There you go.

00:51:45.000 There I am.

00:51:46.000 Washington Square Park.

00:51:47.000 Look at that.

00:51:48.000 Playing some master.

00:51:49.000 Is that MC Supernatural?

00:51:52.000 Those dudes love that game though, man.

00:51:55.000 I mean, those guys who are there, if you go there, they'll be there every day.

00:51:58.000 They fucking live for it.

00:52:01.000 It's one of those things I really admire.

00:52:03.000 I really admire people that get really, really good at chess.

00:52:09.000 Inter 2000. Inter 2000?

00:52:12.000 Yeah.

00:52:13.000 What does that mean?

00:52:14.000 Well, it was supposed to be Interpol.

00:52:16.000 Interpol 2000?

00:52:17.000 Why?

00:52:18.000 It's like the name, Interpol.

00:52:20.000 It sounds official.

00:52:21.000 When people are playing, it's Interpol.

00:52:24.000 I think this is the government I'm playing.

00:52:26.000 You know what I mean?

00:52:26.000 It's the European CIA. So, if you're out there and you're playing Inter 2000, you're playing Lennox motherfucking Lewis.

00:52:34.000 Yeah.

00:52:35.000 I was going to put my real name, but I don't want everybody to try and beat the champ.

00:52:40.000 Well, now they're going to try to beat the champ.

00:52:41.000 Champ's retired right now.

00:52:42.000 Let it be known that Lennox Lewis is one of those dudes that walks around with no case on his iPhone, too.

00:52:46.000 And it's smashed.

00:52:47.000 Is it smashed?

00:52:49.000 If I tell you what happens.

00:52:51.000 What happened?

00:52:53.000 I was doing something and all of a sudden, my wife said, do this.

00:52:56.000 And I went, whoop, whoop.

00:52:57.000 And it flew out of your hand.

00:52:58.000 Yeah, but you have the biggest hands of any human being I know.

00:53:02.000 And there's no phone that's going to be big enough unless you carry an iPad with it.

00:53:06.000 Let me tell you, I don't know who makes these iPhones, but they make them to slip out of your hands.

00:53:11.000 I think they do.

00:53:12.000 They really do.

00:53:13.000 Like, put something on that grips.

00:53:15.000 Why don't you have a case?

00:53:17.000 That's the first thing I did, was put a case on.

00:53:19.000 Right.

00:53:20.000 And then, I forgot what I had to do.

00:53:23.000 You have to take it off to charge it up or something.

00:53:25.000 What?

00:53:25.000 Yeah.

00:53:25.000 What kind of fucking case do you have?

00:53:27.000 You got the wrong case.

00:53:27.000 Who sold you a case?

00:53:29.000 Whoever sold you a case is an asshole.

00:53:31.000 I guess.

00:53:32.000 Doesn't have a thing where you can just stick a hole in it.

00:53:33.000 You don't have a run JRE case?

00:53:35.000 Look at these guys.

00:53:36.000 They're all challenging me.

00:53:37.000 Are they now?

00:53:38.000 Yeah.

00:53:39.000 I gotta boycott this game right now.

00:53:43.000 They're going to come after you now.

00:53:44.000 Now that they find out they can play you.

00:53:46.000 I like that they're doing it while we're doing the podcast live.

00:53:49.000 Look, he's going to get obsessed.

00:53:51.000 The wheels are spinning, the competitive drive.

00:53:53.000 Let me tell you, my wife gives me problems on this.

00:53:55.000 She says, you know, he's playing chess.

00:53:58.000 Women don't understand you playing chess and focusing.

00:54:01.000 I'm trying to tell her, listen, I'm up to this score point.

00:54:05.000 Don't interrupt me because it affects my score.

00:54:07.000 But I need you now.

00:54:09.000 We need to do this.

00:54:10.000 Just five minutes, please.

00:54:11.000 Five minutes.

00:54:13.000 You know, she's looking at me weird, but she's gotten better.

00:54:16.000 She's actually, are you playing chess?

00:54:18.000 And then she leaves you alone?

00:54:20.000 Yeah.

00:54:21.000 That's good.

00:54:21.000 I think because I got mad a couple times.

00:54:23.000 Ah, probably.

00:54:27.000 Yeah, big bully with his wife.

00:54:30.000 Do you ever play chess with people other than Lennox?

00:54:32.000 No, I can't play chess.

00:54:33.000 I don't know.

00:54:33.000 Good, I can't either.

00:54:34.000 Maybe you and I will play together.

00:54:35.000 We should really learn the game together.

00:54:37.000 Yeah, we'll learn it together.

00:54:37.000 I don't know how to play it at all.

00:54:38.000 Finally something Joe can't do.

00:54:40.000 I want to video this game.

00:54:42.000 Damn, it would be fucking disgusting.

00:54:43.000 Well, you know what?

00:54:44.000 You could coach the game.

00:54:45.000 No, this is the first time I would ever see a chess game turn into checkers.

00:54:51.000 Oh, man.

00:54:51.000 He's like, wow.

00:54:52.000 That's it, we're fighting.

00:54:53.000 How rude.

00:54:53.000 How do you play this game again?

00:54:54.000 How rude.

00:54:55.000 All this coming from a man who doesn't really know how to play pool.

00:54:59.000 Shots fired.

00:55:00.000 Shots fired.

00:55:01.000 You're right.

00:55:02.000 You're right.

00:55:03.000 I play billiards.

00:55:05.000 Billiards.

00:55:06.000 Pocket billiards.

00:55:07.000 You ever play three cushion billiards?

00:55:09.000 You know what that is?

00:55:10.000 One, two, three.

00:55:11.000 And then you have to get in the hole of the...

00:55:12.000 No, there's no holes.

00:55:13.000 Is that the one with the bumpers?

00:55:14.000 Yeah.

00:55:15.000 Well, the whole table is a flat...

00:55:16.000 Oh, you have to touch it.

00:55:17.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:55:17.000 That's thrushin' thrushin'.

00:55:19.000 Isn't it Russian?

00:55:20.000 No, but I mean Russians play it.

00:55:22.000 It's real big in South America.

00:55:24.000 It's real big in Mexico.

00:55:26.000 It's real big in parts of Europe.

00:55:28.000 Real big in Asia.

00:55:30.000 Yeah.

00:55:30.000 It's a different game.

00:55:31.000 There's two different colored balls.

00:55:34.000 It's either two white balls and a red ball or two red balls and a white ball.

00:55:38.000 Or sometimes it's a yellow ball, a red ball, and a white ball.

00:55:41.000 And the idea is you make contact with one ball and then you have to hit three cushions and then make contact with the second ball.

00:55:47.000 Wow.

00:55:48.000 Yeah, it's very complicated.

00:55:49.000 And is it good to watch?

00:55:51.000 Well, if you know how to play it, it's good to watch.

00:55:54.000 But if you don't know how to play it, it's...

00:55:55.000 The thing about what I like about pool is I like when the balls disappear.

00:55:59.000 Like, you make a ball, it goes away.

00:56:01.000 It goes in that hole.

00:56:02.000 Bye, bitch.

00:56:03.000 You sink the ball, it's got a finality to it.

00:56:06.000 It feels good.

00:56:07.000 But with that, it just clicks.

00:56:09.000 It's like just ding, ding, ding, click.

00:56:12.000 But the people who love it, love it.

00:56:13.000 It's a very intellectual game because it's all about geometry.

00:56:16.000 It's all angles and spin.

00:56:20.000 I'm not good at that either.

00:56:21.000 It's tricky.

00:56:22.000 It's a tricky game.

00:56:23.000 I'm not good at it.

00:56:24.000 I know it a little bit.

00:56:26.000 What about table tennis?

00:56:27.000 I can't play that.

00:56:28.000 Table tennis.

00:56:29.000 No, you'd fuck me up.

00:56:29.000 High-end coordination.

00:56:31.000 Oh, yeah.

00:56:32.000 I'm sure.

00:56:32.000 Yeah.

00:56:33.000 One thing I learned is you can't do too many things.

00:56:36.000 It will fuck you up.

00:56:37.000 I have a real problem with Quake.

00:56:39.000 You know what Quake is?

00:56:40.000 It's Quake.

00:56:41.000 Jamie's been fucking me up lately.

00:56:43.000 Quake?

00:56:44.000 Yeah, we got a computer room set up in the back.

00:56:47.000 It gets intense.

00:56:49.000 Yeah.

00:56:49.000 What is this Quake?

00:56:50.000 What is the object?

00:56:51.000 It's a 3D game where it's a computer game.

00:56:54.000 You have all these weapons.

00:56:55.000 You run around picking up weapons.

00:56:57.000 And you're on a map.

00:56:58.000 So it's just like every map is different.

00:57:01.000 But you do this in real life, too.

00:57:02.000 I don't know why you're playing it on a video game.

00:57:04.000 What do you mean?

00:57:05.000 You're out there hunting.

00:57:06.000 Yeah, but that's in the forest.

00:57:07.000 That's different.

00:57:07.000 I'm looking for meat.

00:57:08.000 That's a different thing.

00:57:10.000 What kind of meat are you hunting for?

00:57:11.000 Elk, mostly.

00:57:12.000 Elk and deer.

00:57:13.000 Nice.

00:57:14.000 Do you cut it up same spot?

00:57:17.000 Well, you butcher it.

00:57:18.000 You quarter it up while it's there so you can carry it out, but you don't really like...

00:57:23.000 You want to protect the meat, so you really want to get it out of the woods first and cool it off.

00:57:28.000 That's what you want to do.

00:57:29.000 What do you do with all the leftover?

00:57:31.000 Leftover?

00:57:31.000 Like what leftover?

00:57:32.000 The limbs and stuff.

00:57:33.000 Yeah, like the paws.

00:57:34.000 Like the bones and shit like that.

00:57:35.000 Leave them.

00:57:35.000 Leave the bones.

00:57:36.000 You don't bury it?

00:57:38.000 No, the animals will eat them.

00:57:39.000 Oh, okay.

00:57:40.000 Yeah, if you leave the bones behind, then nothing goes to waste in the forest.

00:57:43.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:57:43.000 I mean, if you shoot an animal in the forest and leave the bones behind.

00:57:47.000 Something's gonna eat it.

00:57:48.000 If they don't eat, they'll eat most of it.

00:57:50.000 You know, they'll find it.

00:57:51.000 Bears will find it.

00:57:53.000 The ecosystem will take care of it.

00:57:54.000 Yeah, everything.

00:57:55.000 Rats, everything.

00:57:57.000 Everything will take care of it.

00:57:58.000 Now, how do your children feel about you doing those bad things to this animal?

00:58:02.000 Listen, as big as you are, you have to eat meat.

00:58:04.000 There's no way you're a vegan.

00:58:06.000 No, I eat meat.

00:58:07.000 I definitely eat meat.

00:58:08.000 Yeah.

00:58:08.000 My kids are used to it because I've been hunting since they were little.

00:58:11.000 So they've eaten bear and deer and elk.

00:58:14.000 They eat it all the time.

00:58:15.000 Do you cook?

00:58:15.000 Yeah, all the time.

00:58:16.000 That was bear taste.

00:58:17.000 Here's a question for you.

00:58:18.000 Do you wash your meat?

00:58:20.000 Don't wash it?

00:58:22.000 Do you wash your meat?

00:58:24.000 Like my dick?

00:58:25.000 Is that what you're saying?

00:58:26.000 No, no, no.

00:58:27.000 Is this a double entendre?

00:58:31.000 It's funny a lot of people take it that way.

00:58:33.000 It's like, you know, when you're cooking, it's like you're taking the meat from the butchers.

00:58:36.000 You don't know where it's been.

00:58:38.000 So you rinse the chicken or whatever.

00:58:39.000 Yeah, you rinse it or put some vinegar over it and rinse it like that.

00:58:43.000 So that's what I mean by wash it.

00:58:45.000 Well, when you're cooking it, you're cooking the outside, and anything that might be bacteria is going to get killed.

00:58:51.000 The real issue is when you have an animal that has parasites.

00:58:57.000 That's the issue.

00:58:58.000 So if you're, like, cooking a deer, you don't have to worry about that, because deers are herbivores, and herbivores don't really have parasites.

00:59:04.000 But you can get—well, they can get some— There's some worms that they do get.

00:59:10.000 But most of the time...

00:59:11.000 That's from pork, isn't it?

00:59:12.000 No.

00:59:13.000 Pork definitely can.

00:59:15.000 Pork, you get trichinosis.

00:59:16.000 That's pretty serious.

00:59:17.000 That's pretty serious shit.

00:59:19.000 I do enjoy me some pork, though.

00:59:21.000 You heard me.

00:59:22.000 Man.

00:59:23.000 The devil's beast, Lennox.

00:59:25.000 Swine, Bridgen.

00:59:26.000 Swine.

00:59:27.000 You don't eat the pork?

00:59:28.000 No.

00:59:29.000 Used to be a rustic, Andrew.

00:59:30.000 Oh, that's right.

00:59:32.000 No.

00:59:32.000 A lot of jerk chicken?

00:59:33.000 Yeah, jerk chicken all day.

00:59:35.000 I love jerk chicken.

00:59:36.000 All day.

00:59:37.000 Jerk chicken.

00:59:37.000 It's hard to find a real good Jamaican restaurant though, right?

00:59:41.000 Is there one in LA? None that I've found.

00:59:43.000 I've been here 13 years and I can't find it in nowhere.

00:59:45.000 You know why they have good jerk chicken?

00:59:47.000 Swingers.

00:59:48.000 You know that...

00:59:49.000 Oh, the Cavion 3rd or Beverly or something?

00:59:52.000 Wherever it is.

00:59:52.000 Is it Beverly or 3rd?

00:59:55.000 Yeah.

00:59:55.000 I'm going to check it out.

00:59:57.000 I'm going to check it out.

00:59:58.000 I need oxtail.

00:59:59.000 Maybe your standards are higher because you're actually Jamaican.

01:00:03.000 Right.

01:00:03.000 But for me, it's tasty.

01:00:05.000 I might be off though.

01:00:06.000 Have you been to Jamaica?

01:00:07.000 No.

01:00:07.000 You need to go.

01:00:08.000 Do I? Yeah.

01:00:09.000 Okay.

01:00:09.000 I think you would like it there.

01:00:10.000 I bet I love it.

01:00:11.000 It's very important to go to Jamaica because everybody always tells you different stories and stuff, but it's a paradise over there.

01:00:17.000 Is it?

01:00:17.000 Yeah.

01:00:18.000 What do you like most about it?

01:00:21.000 There you can see different colors.

01:00:23.000 I spent a long time in London, and when I left London to go to Jamaica, I was like, wow, all these different vibrant colors, even in the water, in the colors, in the trees.

01:00:34.000 When you're driving around London, it's gray.

01:00:37.000 It's gray.

01:00:38.000 Different cities, they're gray.

01:00:39.000 So I like contact with plants.

01:00:43.000 Vibrant.

01:00:44.000 Yeah, energy.

01:00:45.000 Yeah.

01:00:46.000 You know, that's the interesting thing.

01:00:47.000 You know, a lot of people do forget that you were from England, right?

01:00:51.000 And that there was a stigma with English boxers for a long time, and you broke that.

01:00:57.000 You were the man.

01:00:58.000 There was a stigma because I heard it was all British boxers are horizontal.

01:01:04.000 Yes.

01:01:04.000 Well, they were more vertical.

01:01:06.000 They would stand straight up, and they would have that European style.

01:01:09.000 But it was like Henry Cooper.

01:01:11.000 Remember when Henry Cooper dropped Muhammad Ali, and then they cheated?

01:01:15.000 Ripped the gloves?

01:01:16.000 Yeah, but he was sort of one of the last great English boxers before you came along.

01:01:22.000 And then for a long time, there was guys that were pretty good, like Frank Bruno...

01:01:27.000 Pretty good, but then they would get in there with guys like Tyson, and they would always wind up losing.

01:01:31.000 So everybody had these, like, this is our guy, this is the one.

01:01:35.000 And Frank Bruno, damn did he look the part.

01:01:37.000 Was there ever a man more jacked as a heavyweight boxer than Frank Bruno?

01:01:42.000 Jesus Christ, he was a Goliath.

01:01:44.000 He was carved out of granite.

01:01:45.000 I mean, there's never been a better built boxer ever.

01:01:49.000 Well, you'd look at Frank Bruno and you go, how does he not kill everybody?

01:01:52.000 He's so big.

01:01:53.000 Let me tell you, you should see Frank Bruno now.

01:01:57.000 Still chiseled.

01:01:58.000 Really?

01:01:58.000 Yeah.

01:01:59.000 Phenomenal genetics.

01:02:00.000 Must be phenomenal genetics.

01:02:02.000 Even at the age of like 65. Wow.

01:02:04.000 Remember back in the day we used to think Evander, same thing.

01:02:07.000 Oh, yeah.

01:02:08.000 Well, Evander, you know, people forget, he started out as cruiserweight.

01:02:11.000 He was a much smaller guy.

01:02:13.000 Light heavyweight, actually.

01:02:14.000 Was he?

01:02:15.000 In the UFC? I mean, in boxing?

01:02:17.000 Yeah, didn't he win the...

01:02:17.000 Oh, no, it was...

01:02:18.000 I thought he won the light heavyweight title from...

01:02:21.000 Dwight Muhammad Kawhi.

01:02:22.000 No, that was Cruiserweight.

01:02:23.000 Yeah, Cruiserweight.

01:02:24.000 Yeah.

01:02:24.000 It was a hell of a fight.

01:02:25.000 That was a hell of a fight.

01:02:26.000 That was like his big fight to prove himself as a professional.

01:02:31.000 Because Kawhi was tricky.

01:02:33.000 5'7", 200 pounds.

01:02:35.000 It was a weird fighter, man.

01:02:36.000 Well, that was the American Olympic trials, right?

01:02:39.000 Well, Kali was a professional fight.

01:02:42.000 That was for the Cruiserweight title.

01:02:44.000 Might have been Hedy Davis.

01:02:45.000 No, let me tell you, he had a lot of...

01:02:47.000 Look at Frank Bruno, still looking good.

01:02:48.000 You gotta see him with his shirt off, he's still cut.

01:02:51.000 But you could tell.

01:02:52.000 Skinny ass legs though, one leg kick.

01:02:54.000 He's got a problem.

01:02:56.000 Damn though, he does look very good.

01:02:58.000 At one time he had big legs.

01:03:00.000 Yes.

01:03:00.000 Maybe when he was fighting.

01:03:01.000 Go see Frank Bruno back when he was in his prime as a boxer.

01:03:04.000 He was gigantic, man.

01:03:07.000 He was as sculpted as a boxer ever gets.

01:03:10.000 Yeah, look at him.

01:03:12.000 That's not even a good picture.

01:03:13.000 No.

01:03:14.000 It's not one of the best.

01:03:15.000 Yeah, he was so jacked.

01:03:18.000 Yeah, Kawi was the Camden buzzsaw.

01:03:22.000 He was such a crazy fighter because he would pull his shorts up to like here, right?

01:03:27.000 And he was 5'7".

01:03:28.000 And he would tuck down.

01:03:29.000 And he was super wide and he would fight with that Philly shell and come in real low.

01:03:33.000 He was a very difficult guy to deal with.

01:03:36.000 Very difficult guy to deal with.

01:03:37.000 Don't see those styles anymore.

01:03:39.000 No, no.

01:03:40.000 Now when you watch boxing today, who really stands out to you?

01:03:45.000 You know, all the champions right now, they didn't get to be champions for no reason.

01:03:49.000 And, you know, each one of them have different qualities.

01:03:55.000 Well, let's look at the heavyweights.

01:03:57.000 All the heavyweights, the top three heavyweights right now, they're all over six feet five.

01:04:02.000 Yeah.

01:04:03.000 And they all have a different style, which is good because, you know, it reminds me of when me and Holyfield and Tyson were around.

01:04:08.000 We all had different styles, which makes great fights.

01:04:11.000 Now it's to guess which style is going to beat which style.

01:04:14.000 You never know because they're all similar.

01:04:16.000 You know, all three of them have knockout potential and, you know, they're boxing to win.

01:04:22.000 So what we want to see, we want to see who would win out of them.

01:04:26.000 Deontay Wilder, to me, is the most perplexing because he hits so hard.

01:04:31.000 It's almost like he's got magic in his hands.

01:04:35.000 He makes guys fly across the ring, and he's only 209 pounds.

01:04:38.000 And he does it off balance?

01:04:40.000 Yeah.

01:04:40.000 And he does it with both legs in the air?

01:04:42.000 Well, you know, he made the Olympic team and won a bronze medal a year and a half into boxing.

01:04:48.000 Oh, yeah.

01:04:49.000 My problem with the new division is that they don't have the amateur pedigree, but maybe they don't need it.

01:04:56.000 What about Ortiz?

01:04:57.000 Ortiz is great, but Ortiz is much older than he says he is.

01:05:00.000 Is he?

01:05:01.000 How do you know?

01:05:01.000 What does he say he is?

01:05:02.000 40-something?

01:05:03.000 Like 40 or 41?

01:05:04.000 How old is he?

01:05:05.000 I'm hearing stories that Ortiz is like 49. How do you know?

01:05:09.000 Somebody told me about from the amateurs.

01:05:10.000 I remember seeing him in the amateurs in the 80s, and they're like, what?

01:05:13.000 They always say that about Cubans, though.

01:05:14.000 Yeah, because...

01:05:15.000 They say that same shit about Yoel Romero.

01:05:17.000 He says he's 39?

01:05:18.000 Yeah.

01:05:19.000 He just fought on the weekend, or two weeks ago, right?

01:05:21.000 Yeah, a couple weeks ago, in one.

01:05:23.000 Stoppage, right?

01:05:23.000 No, I think it was a decision.

01:05:25.000 Was it?

01:05:26.000 I thought it was a late round stoppage.

01:05:27.000 Unless he just fought again.

01:05:29.000 He just fought like last weekend or two weeks ago.

01:05:31.000 Didn't he fight like two months ago too?

01:05:32.000 No, no, he just fought.

01:05:33.000 No, that was a stoppage.

01:05:34.000 And this fight just happened a week ago.

01:05:36.000 Oh, so he's being very active.

01:05:38.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:05:38.000 He's trying to come back.

01:05:39.000 What do you think about that?

01:05:40.000 Like how active do you think a boxer should be?

01:05:44.000 What really comes down to, you know, this is how it goes.

01:05:48.000 If you're starting boxing, obviously you want to have as many fights as possible to, you know, get that experience level.

01:05:56.000 So as much as possible, it's usually four fights a year.

01:06:01.000 And then as you get better, it drops to three fights.

01:06:04.000 And then when you're the champion, it drops to two fights.

01:06:07.000 So that's the progression of fighting.

01:06:11.000 You can't, like for instance, how many fights did Deontay have this year?

01:06:15.000 Maybe two.

01:06:16.000 Right, right.

01:06:17.000 You know, before when he was starting out, he would have like three to four.

01:06:21.000 Yeah, he's very angry that this rematch is not happening.

01:06:23.000 And I side with him.

01:06:25.000 Was it Tyson who pulled out?

01:06:26.000 Tyson got a deal with ESPN. Yeah.

01:06:28.000 Yeah.

01:06:29.000 Well...

01:06:30.000 And it's a big deal because, you know, talking about chess match, I think he's pulled off the greatest chess match move there is.

01:06:40.000 First, he comes over from England.

01:06:42.000 He takes the challenge with Deontay.

01:06:45.000 Joshua didn't.

01:06:47.000 He boxed.

01:06:48.000 He had a great fight.

01:06:50.000 Now, he's put himself right up with all three of them on the same line to me.

01:06:56.000 And then now, for the rematch...

01:06:59.000 People want to see Deontay and they want to see Tyson Fury again because the first fight was exciting.

01:07:06.000 Joshua...

01:07:08.000 Who's he fighting?

01:07:09.000 You know, he's going to fight Big Baby.

01:07:11.000 Nobody knows him.

01:07:12.000 Everybody knows Deontay.

01:07:13.000 Just boxing fans, though.

01:07:14.000 Everybody knows Tyson.

01:07:16.000 Especially after that fight, because it was such a spectacular fight.

01:07:19.000 That knockdown was insane.

01:07:21.000 Oh, my God.

01:07:21.000 The first knockdown was great.

01:07:23.000 The second knockdown was preposterous.

01:07:25.000 So the fact that he rose like Lazarus, I mean, it was crazy.

01:07:29.000 And then won the rest of the round.

01:07:31.000 He gets tagged a few times and starts boxing and then even tag Deontay.

01:07:34.000 I still had him winning that fight.

01:07:36.000 It was close.

01:07:37.000 Tyson.

01:07:38.000 I think boxing won that night.

01:07:42.000 Both guys looked great and boxed well and made an exciting fight.

01:07:47.000 The rematch, obviously everybody wants to see the rematch again.

01:07:51.000 So when the rematch happened, that put Anthony Joshua on the shelf, in my eyes.

01:07:57.000 Now, it's put him on the shelf a bit longer with this ESPN deal.

01:08:03.000 And, you know, Tyson Fury's boxing in front of the public.

01:08:09.000 Anthony Joshua and Deontay, they're pay-per-view.

01:08:13.000 Who are they going to fight pay-per-view?

01:08:15.000 Nobody wants to see no silly fight.

01:08:17.000 They want to see good fights.

01:08:18.000 So, you know, it's a great move by Tyson Fury.

01:08:22.000 It's a great move, but the first fight, the fight ended in a draw, right?

01:08:26.000 Yeah.

01:08:26.000 So in the draw, Deontay keeps the title, but at least Tyson walks away saying, look, I won the decision.

01:08:34.000 I feel like I should have won the decision.

01:08:35.000 There's a dispute.

01:08:36.000 There's a debate about it.

01:08:38.000 But everybody wants to see that fight.

01:08:40.000 Yeah, I mean, a draw is not unreasonable.

01:08:42.000 But Kyson could lose to somebody.

01:08:45.000 That's the thing, they can all lose to somebody.

01:08:47.000 They can all lose.

01:08:47.000 You know, while they're mucking around saying, oh, I'll fight this or I won't fight until next year, somebody might lose.

01:08:53.000 This is what happens.

01:08:54.000 And now none of them can fight each other because if Joshua fights Fury and loses to Fury, Joshua's star goes down.

01:09:01.000 If Joshua fights Deontay and beats Deontay, the Tyson-Deontay fight's not that exciting.

01:09:06.000 Right, but if Joshua wants real respect, he's got to fight either Fury or Deontay.

01:09:10.000 Those are the big fights.

01:09:12.000 Those are the big fights.

01:09:13.000 Obviously he gets respect.

01:09:14.000 He's the heavyweight champion of the world.

01:09:15.000 But split.

01:09:17.000 That's a weird thing too.

01:09:19.000 I'd like to see Joshua Ortiz.

01:09:20.000 That'd be an interesting fight.

01:09:22.000 It would be an interesting fight.

01:09:23.000 Because Ortiz can box and hit.

01:09:25.000 Yeah.

01:09:25.000 Well, that was what showed how goddamn powerful Deontay is.

01:09:28.000 That Ortiz was winning that fight.

01:09:30.000 Yeah.

01:09:31.000 And then I think it was the 10th round.

01:09:32.000 I think it was the 7th or 10th.

01:09:34.000 I don't remember.

01:09:35.000 But I remember when he caught him, I was like, God, that guy, even late in the fight, that guy carries that power.

01:09:40.000 Ortiz is past his prime.

01:09:42.000 Let's slow down there, Lewis.

01:09:44.000 Past his prime.

01:09:45.000 He's a good fighter, but give him like 10 years, and he would have beat these guys.

01:09:53.000 He would have given them a good fight.

01:09:55.000 But right now, he's obviously older, and he's an old fighter.

01:10:01.000 Yeah, well, they caught him doing some steroids.

01:10:03.000 A lot of times, guys get older, they try to juice up the old body.

01:10:08.000 Yeah, so, you know, when you reach that point where you need steroids, mentally it affects you.

01:10:12.000 Yeah.

01:10:13.000 You know, you go into the ring and it's like, you know, you're missing something.

01:10:16.000 Something that was there in the past and it made you feel good.

01:10:19.000 Now, I don't feel as good.

01:10:21.000 Right.

01:10:22.000 When you were fighting, did anybody that you were fighting, did you suspect that they were on something?

01:10:26.000 Yeah.

01:10:27.000 Oh, a couple times.

01:10:28.000 Yeah.

01:10:29.000 But the good thing is that I know is I realize steroids...

01:10:35.000 Can never get this as strong.

01:10:38.000 Your chin.

01:10:39.000 Chin.

01:10:39.000 Yeah.

01:10:40.000 So you can take as much steroids as you want, but I'm going to hit you on the chin.

01:10:42.000 Right.

01:10:43.000 You can't put muscles on your face.

01:10:45.000 Yeah.

01:10:46.000 And then, you know, these body punches, you can't protect around here.

01:10:51.000 So they'll affect you as well.

01:10:52.000 So that's where, you know, when you're hitting guys around here, body punches and you hit them on the chin, doesn't matter.

01:11:00.000 Doesn't matter.

01:11:01.000 But don't you think that it makes them stronger physically, gives them more vitality, might make them able to absorb more punishment?

01:11:08.000 For a minute.

01:11:09.000 Just for a little bit.

01:11:10.000 Yeah, for a little bit.

01:11:11.000 Who'd you suspect was on something when you fought him?

01:11:14.000 I don't want to say.

01:11:15.000 You don't want to say?

01:11:15.000 Let me say.

01:11:16.000 Yeah, go ahead.

01:11:17.000 I think Evander...

01:11:19.000 I think.

01:11:20.000 Evander was the first guy, as far as I'm concerned, was the first guy on steroids back in the day.

01:11:25.000 You look at the fucking size of that guy in the late 90s, especially when he fought Lennox.

01:11:30.000 Have you ever asked him if he's been on steroids?

01:11:32.000 No, I've never actually hung out with Evander.

01:11:34.000 Oh, okay.

01:11:35.000 I might have met your victory party 20 years ago.

01:11:37.000 He did hang around with the guys that were, like, into it.

01:11:40.000 Yeah, that Mark, whatever his name was, he was the first guy to have, like, a strength and conditioning coach and all that kind of stuff, a dietitian.

01:11:48.000 Spinks did when he fought Larry Holmes.

01:11:52.000 Same guy, Mackie Shilstone.

01:11:53.000 Yeah.

01:11:54.000 Mackie Shilstone got him in shape for Larry when he was coming up from light heavyweight.

01:11:57.000 Yeah, that's the same guy that Evander used.

01:12:00.000 It was really interesting because at the time, the conventional wisdom was that boxers should not lift weights.

01:12:07.000 And Evander was lifting all kinds of weights.

01:12:09.000 And he put on all this muscle.

01:12:11.000 But really, he was only about 200, 205 pounds when he first fought as a heavier.

01:12:16.000 Oh, yeah.

01:12:17.000 Jesus Christ.

01:12:18.000 He was built.

01:12:19.000 I mean, he was built.

01:12:20.000 It was a perfect body.

01:12:22.000 Yeah.

01:12:22.000 Hey, look at that.

01:12:23.000 That's not steroids?

01:12:24.000 Look at the neck.

01:12:25.000 That's steroids, buddy.

01:12:26.000 No, not necessarily.

01:12:27.000 You definitely can get that big without it.

01:12:31.000 I mean, there are guys.

01:12:32.000 The word's alleged.

01:12:34.000 Yeah, alleged is a good word.

01:12:36.000 But it's also possible to get that big with steroids.

01:12:38.000 But it's not just steroids, too.

01:12:40.000 It's EPO. Look at that one up there.

01:12:42.000 Yeah, but this is in the 80s and 90s.

01:12:44.000 The good stuff wasn't available back then, was it?

01:12:47.000 Oh, yeah.

01:12:48.000 What are you kidding me, man?

01:12:49.000 Those Russians had everything back then, man.

01:12:51.000 I mean, the Eastern Bloc women, they made world records.

01:12:54.000 That was when he was a cruiserweight.

01:12:57.000 Look how thin he was.

01:12:58.000 Yeah, but you can't call them women if they had mustaches.

01:13:00.000 Or penises.

01:13:01.000 They had thick beards and fat dicks.

01:13:04.000 They set records that still to this day haven't been broken.

01:13:07.000 Wow.

01:13:08.000 And because they really were not women.

01:13:10.000 I mean, they were women with massive amounts of male hormones in their body.

01:13:14.000 Flo Jo.

01:13:16.000 Yeah.

01:13:16.000 She, I think, still sets the record right now.

01:13:20.000 For whatever it was.

01:13:22.000 And she was also someone that was accused of doing things.

01:13:26.000 Yeah.

01:13:26.000 I mean, look.

01:13:27.000 Track and field, according to Victor Conte, who was the Balco guy.

01:13:32.000 I had him on my podcast.

01:13:33.000 He was the guy that got the clear to Barry Bonds and all those guys.

01:13:38.000 Supposedly undetectable steroids.

01:13:40.000 He said track and field is just a dirty sport.

01:13:43.000 Just like Tour de France.

01:13:45.000 Just like cycling.

01:13:46.000 He's a dirty sport.

01:13:48.000 You got Carl Lewis trying to call out Usain Bolt now, right?

01:13:51.000 What are you showing us, James?

01:13:52.000 This is the top 100 meter times.

01:13:54.000 All the names crossed out.

01:13:55.000 Oh, wow.

01:13:56.000 Steroids.

01:13:57.000 Wow!

01:13:58.000 It's everyone but Usain Bolt.

01:14:00.000 Goddamn.

01:14:01.000 Well, that's like when Lance Armstrong won the Tour de France and they took his title away.

01:14:06.000 If you had to give that title to someone who didn't test positive for anything, you had to go back to 18th place.

01:14:13.000 Wow.

01:14:14.000 That was a dirty sport!

01:14:16.000 You know, Bill Burr said it best.

01:14:18.000 He goes, our psycho was better than your psycho.

01:14:20.000 You were all dirty.

01:14:22.000 It was a dirty sport.

01:14:23.000 He was just better at doing that sport while being dirty.

01:14:27.000 Yeah, if everybody's dirty, then it's fair.

01:14:28.000 Well, he won.

01:14:30.000 He won while everybody was cheating.

01:14:32.000 I mean, did he have...

01:14:33.000 So is it still cheating if everybody's doing it?

01:14:35.000 It is and it isn't.

01:14:37.000 I mean, it is definitely cheating.

01:14:39.000 But everybody's cheating.

01:14:40.000 It's weird.

01:14:41.000 It's not good.

01:14:43.000 See, you know, they went after the wrong thing.

01:14:45.000 You know, people are looking for drugs to help them get stronger.

01:14:49.000 When it's natural food that makes you stronger.

01:14:51.000 It's what you put into your system.

01:14:53.000 So, you know, I know Jamaican food is great.

01:14:57.000 You know, yams, plantains, everything.

01:14:59.000 Bully beef?

01:15:00.000 Bully beef.

01:15:01.000 You know what's better than that?

01:15:02.000 What's that?

01:15:03.000 Steroids.

01:15:04.000 Steroids are way better.

01:15:05.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:15:06.000 They work instantly.

01:15:08.000 It's so much better if you just stay on them.

01:15:11.000 Like, guys like Lance Armstrong, I mean, they proved it.

01:15:13.000 You almost can't do Tour de France the way they were doing it without some sort of chemical help.

01:15:20.000 I've heard it argued by physiologists.

01:15:22.000 They say it's actually better for your body to be on steroids while you're doing something like the Tour de France because you give your body a chance to recover because they're doing so much work over the course of this race that without having some sort of chemical enhancement of your ability to recover,

01:15:39.000 you're just not going to be able to do it healthy.

01:15:41.000 Your body can't do that on its own.

01:15:43.000 You get that rhabdomyelosis that those CrossFit people get, you know, that's when your body starts breaking down muscle tissue and it becomes toxic.

01:15:52.000 Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:15:53.000 Pollutes your liver.

01:15:53.000 How do you do that?

01:15:54.000 They work out so hard that people have died of it.

01:15:58.000 Fighters have died from rhabdomyelosis.

01:16:00.000 It's from overtraining.

01:16:02.000 You overtrain, which is a big issue with fighters, right?

01:16:06.000 Some fighters can train too much, and a good trainer knows how to pull you back so that you're peaking when you get into the ring.

01:16:13.000 But sometimes people are so mentally strong, they push themselves through even when they're exhausted because they think that's the way to victory.

01:16:20.000 Hard work.

01:16:21.000 What's up, Jamie?

01:16:23.000 Yeah, your piss comes out looking like Coke.

01:16:25.000 Comes out looking like Coca-Cola.

01:16:27.000 That's what rhabdomylysis piss looks like.

01:16:29.000 Yeah.

01:16:30.000 Wow.

01:16:30.000 Yeah, that's a sign that your body's breaking down.

01:16:34.000 Your muscle is...

01:16:36.000 Your proteins in your body are breaking down and your body is getting poisoned by it.

01:16:40.000 People die.

01:16:41.000 A lot of CrossFit people get it.

01:16:44.000 It's your kidneys.

01:16:45.000 What do you do in that situation?

01:16:47.000 Do you take a rest, a leave of absence, or do you go see the doctor and they can give you some pills to put more things that you need in your system?

01:16:56.000 I think you have to go to the doctor almost immediately.

01:16:58.000 I think they have to do IV. You pretty much, your body goes septic on you, right?

01:17:01.000 Yeah, it's very dangerous.

01:17:03.000 And a lot of these CrossFit people, you know, because it's a competition, and you're competing against all these other people, and you're doing these massive repetitions, and some of them, they're not really conditioned for it yet.

01:17:12.000 So their body's just, the muscle's not really acclimated to this kind of workload, and this shit starts breaking down.

01:17:19.000 Wow.

01:17:20.000 What do you do these days?

01:17:21.000 Like, for exercise?

01:17:22.000 Because you still look great.

01:17:23.000 Yeah, I ran 10 miles this morning.

01:17:24.000 Whoa!

01:17:25.000 Yeah, man.

01:17:26.000 What?

01:17:26.000 Thank you.

01:17:26.000 Where'd you go?

01:17:28.000 I mean, I went on the road.

01:17:29.000 But where'd you run?

01:17:30.000 On the beach.

01:17:31.000 Oh, okay.

01:17:32.000 Yeah, I woke up and took a shower.

01:17:33.000 Nice.

01:17:35.000 So you're still...

01:17:36.000 You did that?

01:17:36.000 Yeah.

01:17:36.000 Okay.

01:17:37.000 I feel like I don't know you anymore.

01:17:38.000 I ran...

01:17:40.000 You guys don't even catch the joke.

01:17:41.000 I ran 10 miles and I woke up and took a shower.

01:17:43.000 Oh.

01:17:45.000 You're a comedian.

01:17:46.000 You're supposed to know that.

01:17:47.000 But listen, listen, listen.

01:17:48.000 All right?

01:17:49.000 That's a bad joke.

01:17:49.000 First of all, sit down.

01:17:50.000 Tell him.

01:17:51.000 Tell him.

01:17:52.000 You know, he used to do this shit to me back in the day.

01:17:54.000 I'd be at his house and I was like, I'm in his basement.

01:17:58.000 I go, it started to rain.

01:17:59.000 I go, Len, I got to go outside and close my sunroof.

01:18:01.000 And he's like, no, hold on a second.

01:18:03.000 Let me tell you a story.

01:18:03.000 I go, Len, let me just go close my fucking sunroof.

01:18:06.000 I was like, hold on, let me just tell you a story.

01:18:08.000 And I'm like, dude, it's raining and my sunroof is open.

01:18:11.000 Are you going to pay for my fucking car to get fixed?

01:18:13.000 He's like, hold on.

01:18:14.000 Yo, there's this guy, right?

01:18:16.000 And I'm like, come on!

01:18:17.000 And he goes into this fucking long story.

01:18:19.000 And he goes, he's trying to get out this window and I'm pulling his leg and I'm pulling his leg and I go, and he goes, this is the way I'm pulling your leg right now.

01:18:26.000 And I'm like, the fucker.

01:18:29.000 Do you ever do yoga?

01:18:30.000 Yes.

01:18:30.000 You look like a guy who get into yoga.

01:18:32.000 I actually hurt myself doing yoga.

01:18:34.000 Really?

01:18:34.000 It's much harder than it looks, dude.

01:18:35.000 I'm flexible.

01:18:37.000 If I stand up, I can put both my hands on the ground like that.

01:18:40.000 Wow.

01:18:40.000 With my legs straight.

01:18:42.000 But somebody told me, oh, you know what?

01:18:45.000 You got to move your bum cheeks a little back, and that helps you get down a little more.

01:18:49.000 And I'm like, okay.

01:18:50.000 Bum cheeks a little back.

01:18:51.000 Pop!

01:18:53.000 After a couple days, it's like, you know, I'm walking around saying I hurt myself, and he goes, yoga?

01:18:58.000 Yeah, I say, yeah, I hurt myself too.

01:19:00.000 I'm like, I didn't know you can hurt yourself in yoga.

01:19:02.000 You can hurt yourself in yoga.

01:19:03.000 Yeah, my doctor told me a lot of people come to him with injuries, back injuries from yoga.

01:19:07.000 What is that, mentally saying that you can do it when your body's saying you can't?

01:19:12.000 Or just doing something wrong.

01:19:14.000 Just doing something wrong.

01:19:15.000 Especially if you do it too hard, too quick.

01:19:18.000 Yoga is like anything else.

01:19:19.000 I mean, it's exercise.

01:19:20.000 You definitely can hurt yourself.

01:19:22.000 Do you do the hot yoga or cold yoga?

01:19:24.000 I haven't tried the hot one.

01:19:25.000 I want to, but I do cold yoga.

01:19:28.000 I like hot because it's also torturous.

01:19:33.000 I like that aspect of it.

01:19:35.000 And also, there's a Harvard study that's going on right now where they're trying to find out if there's the same benefits that you get from the sauna you get from doing hot yoga.

01:19:42.000 When your body gets really overheated like that, it produces heat shock proteins and it alleviates a lot of inflammation in the body.

01:19:50.000 That's why the sauna is so good for you.

01:19:53.000 The dry sauna?

01:19:54.000 Yeah, dry sauna.

01:19:55.000 Your body, you get in there, your body's like, what the fuck is this?

01:19:58.000 And so it produces these cytokines, these heat shock proteins, and it's fantastic for people just for overall issues.

01:20:04.000 Yeah, my hands don't hurt when I'm in the sauna.

01:20:05.000 You should get one in your house, man.

01:20:07.000 I got one.

01:20:07.000 I got a sauna in the house.

01:20:08.000 Oh, it's nice, right?

01:20:09.000 Yeah.

01:20:09.000 You should go in every day, man.

01:20:11.000 Dude, you should be in there every day.

01:20:12.000 I should.

01:20:12.000 Especially because you're doing jujitsu now, you know, after training.

01:20:15.000 It's fantastic for you.

01:20:16.000 Really, really good.

01:20:17.000 I just go sit in the tub with Epsom salt.

01:20:18.000 That's good, too.

01:20:19.000 That's good, too.

01:20:20.000 I don't think that works, Epsom salt.

01:20:22.000 It makes you feel good going to bed.

01:20:24.000 Yeah.

01:20:24.000 I'm nice and relaxed.

01:20:25.000 I go to sleep.

01:20:27.000 Aromatherapy type of thing.

01:20:28.000 It smells good.

01:20:29.000 But it's not that.

01:20:30.000 There's magnesium in it.

01:20:31.000 No.

01:20:32.000 Epsom salt, your body absorbs magnesium through your skin.

01:20:35.000 It's one of the best ways for your body to get magnesium is actually through Epsom salts.

01:20:39.000 Yeah.

01:20:40.000 Okay, I'm going to take more of that.

01:20:41.000 Yeah, I have a float tank.

01:20:43.000 You ever do a float tank?

01:20:44.000 Is that the cold water one?

01:20:45.000 No, no, no.

01:20:46.000 It's a tank of water that's heated to 94 degrees, which is like the surface of your skin, and there's 1,000 pounds of Epsom salts in there.

01:20:54.000 And you lay in it, and you float.

01:20:56.000 Half your body is above the water, and then you close the door.

01:20:59.000 Total silence, total darkness, and it feels like you're flying through space.

01:21:02.000 It's beautiful.

01:21:03.000 You would love it, man.

01:21:04.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:21:04.000 Especially being the cerebral.

01:21:05.000 You've been telling me about this one for years.

01:21:06.000 Dude, I got one right here.

01:21:08.000 I know.

01:21:08.000 Anytime you want.

01:21:09.000 But isn't it kind of gross to sit in somebody else's?

01:21:11.000 No.

01:21:12.000 No?

01:21:12.000 First of all, it's only me.

01:21:13.000 I'm the only one who sits in it.

01:21:14.000 And I know how gross you are.

01:21:16.000 I'm clean right now.

01:21:17.000 There's a massive filtration system.

01:21:20.000 It's like there's got a commercial filtration system.

01:21:22.000 I can just drop in and be like, John, I'm just going to go float.

01:21:24.000 Anytime, man.

01:21:24.000 Just text me and I'll have Jeff come by and open it up for you.

01:21:28.000 Or do it while we're doing a show.

01:21:29.000 You have to be naked when you do it?

01:21:31.000 Yeah.

01:21:31.000 Yeah, you got to be naked.

01:21:32.000 Don't have to worry.

01:21:33.000 Don't be scared, homie.

01:21:34.000 Everything floats, so anything that's in there will be floating.

01:21:37.000 Yeah.

01:21:37.000 I know what you're scared of.

01:21:39.000 I'll show you the whole system.

01:21:40.000 There's an ozone system that purifies the water.

01:21:42.000 It goes through this commercial filtration system.

01:21:45.000 It's heavy-duty stuff, man.

01:21:46.000 It's pretty intense.

01:21:47.000 Because they've started these flotation tank centers now.

01:21:49.000 Yeah, they're everywhere.

01:21:51.000 You were talking about this for the past 10 years.

01:21:53.000 More.

01:21:54.000 I had one in 2002. I remember when I went to your house back in the day, when you were doing this podcast out of the house.

01:22:00.000 Yeah, I had one in the basement.

01:22:01.000 Yeah.

01:22:02.000 What about the ice one?

01:22:05.000 Oh, that's great.

01:22:06.000 Yeah, cryotherapy.

01:22:07.000 There's a place down the street from here, about a couple miles away.

01:22:10.000 250 degrees below zero.

01:22:12.000 I thought you would have had one of those, too.

01:22:13.000 No, that's like you have to get nitrogen tanks and shit.

01:22:16.000 I worry about that stuff exploding.

01:22:20.000 Some shit going wrong and you're getting maimed.

01:22:24.000 So do you enjoy doing commentary too?

01:22:28.000 Yeah.

01:22:30.000 I love giving my opinion.

01:22:32.000 You know, people always say I've got unusual opinions.

01:22:38.000 They've never heard that before or never heard it put that way.

01:22:41.000 So, you know, I can give you from a fighter's point of view.

01:22:45.000 I've been in boxing for so long, there's different experiences that I've gone through, so I'm happy to share them.

01:22:51.000 But you don't ever work out boxing-wise anymore?

01:22:55.000 Yeah.

01:22:56.000 But you don't hit a bag?

01:22:57.000 My son's 15 and I know he wants to box.

01:23:01.000 So anytime we get a chance, I'm always training him.

01:23:04.000 How big is he now?

01:23:05.000 Six feet.

01:23:07.000 Jesus.

01:23:07.000 Yeah.

01:23:08.000 He's taller than you.

01:23:08.000 Tyson's son.

01:23:09.000 Tyson's son is 16. Oh, Miguel, yeah.

01:23:12.000 Tyson's son was saying that he wants a box too.

01:23:14.000 Tyson's like, listen, Miguel.

01:23:15.000 No, Miguel's not built like that.

01:23:17.000 But he's also saying, listen, you grew up soft.

01:23:20.000 And he's saying, you don't want to meet someone like me.

01:23:24.000 You know, like, the way he was.

01:23:26.000 Yeah, I know Mike's kids.

01:23:27.000 He's saying, like, you don't want to meet some animal like me.

01:23:30.000 You know, like, when he was fighting, like, he thinks of what he would have done to his own son.

01:23:34.000 He's like, oh, don't do that.

01:23:36.000 Like, he was talking about it on the podcast.

01:23:37.000 And his son Miguel's a really talented kid, like, musician-wise.

01:23:40.000 He can play, like, seven different instruments.

01:23:42.000 Wow.

01:23:43.000 He speaks Spanish.

01:23:44.000 Wow.

01:23:45.000 The kid's really, and he's a really smart, nice kid.

01:23:48.000 Well, Tyson's a smart guy.

01:23:50.000 He's not, like, he has a...

01:23:52.000 Oh, I think people mistake Tyson for being a dummy.

01:23:54.000 He's very smart.

01:23:55.000 He's very, very intelligent, well-read.

01:23:57.000 Boxing is, in at least some levels, a very, very intellectual pursuit.

01:24:03.000 Yeah.

01:24:03.000 You have to have a strong mind to be able to dodge those punches, get in and get yours in.

01:24:08.000 You have to.

01:24:09.000 You have to be able to sort out that problem.

01:24:12.000 There's a problem in front of you.

01:24:13.000 The problem is another man who's the same weight as you, the same size as you.

01:24:17.000 He's got gloves on just like you do and he's trying to do what you're trying to do to him.

01:24:20.000 And you have to do that within seconds.

01:24:22.000 Yeah.

01:24:22.000 Boom.

01:24:23.000 Yeah.

01:24:23.000 Punches thrown at you.

01:24:24.000 What do you do?

01:24:25.000 What's the rebuttal?

01:24:26.000 People don't understand.

01:24:27.000 They think just because someone doesn't have the best vocabulary or because they don't have a comprehensive education that they're not intelligent.

01:24:35.000 That's a big mistake.

01:24:37.000 No.

01:24:38.000 Tyson's intelligent.

01:24:39.000 I remember going to the Catskills when I was I won the World Junior Championships in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic.

01:24:47.000 And I remember the American team was saying, oh, well, you never fought the best.

01:24:51.000 I'm like, I didn't fight the best.

01:24:53.000 I thought Americans said the best team.

01:24:55.000 Yeah, but one guy, he doesn't like taking plans and his managers don't like taking plans either.

01:25:00.000 So I'm like, who's that?

01:25:01.000 And they told me it was Mike Tyson, custom model.

01:25:04.000 So me and my trainer, we left Canada and we drove all the way up there.

01:25:08.000 And while we were up there, Razor Roddick was up there and they said, oh, Razor Roddick came, didn't spy with us.

01:25:15.000 I said, okay, I'll spy with you.

01:25:17.000 I'm here for four days.

01:25:18.000 So first time Tyson actually met me, You know, he was a nice guy, really nice guy.

01:25:24.000 He took me in his room, showed me some old flicks that I've never seen before of old-time fighters who would tell me about each fighter like he studied them.

01:25:33.000 And then, you know, this is where he got his style of fighting from.

01:25:39.000 And first day in the gym, Bell went, he came across, and he was trying to kill me.

01:25:46.000 Like, you know, I did my Muhammad Ali thing, obviously stayed away from his power, but the first day was really hectic, and then the second day was a little hectic, and it got better as it went along.

01:25:56.000 And the last day is, I got actually the better of him the last day, and I remember Customato saying, Mike, you're going to meet him someday, don't you do that!

01:26:06.000 And that always echoed in my mind that, will we ever fight?

01:26:10.000 Will we ever fight?

01:26:11.000 Because Customato said that we're going to fight.

01:26:13.000 Wow.

01:26:14.000 And it did happen.

01:26:15.000 And there's footage of it.

01:26:16.000 Yeah.

01:26:17.000 Wow.

01:26:17.000 Lennox has the footage of it.

01:26:20.000 Footage of the training sessions?

01:26:21.000 The sparring.

01:26:21.000 How old was Tyson at the time?

01:26:23.000 Tyson was like a, he was about 52. No, no.

01:26:28.000 How old was he at the time?

01:26:29.000 Oh, at the time?

01:26:29.000 15. He was younger than me.

01:26:32.000 I was 17. He was about 17. Wow.

01:26:36.000 I was 18. No, he was younger than that.

01:26:39.000 That must have been crazy.

01:26:40.000 No, because it was 84. It was before the Empire State Games and everything.

01:26:43.000 You went up there before you went to the 84 Olympics.

01:26:46.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:26:47.000 Well, it must have been crazy, though, knowing that you guys were going to be a part of boxing history, knowing that all the way back then, being a teenager, and standing in front and hearing Customato scream that out.

01:27:01.000 That must have been intense.

01:27:02.000 It was intense because Kosta Mata wasn't that loud.

01:27:06.000 When all of a sudden he became loud, it was like everybody listened.

01:27:12.000 And then there's certain ways that you get across to people and some people, you have to shout at them.

01:27:17.000 Did you ever wish that you fought him in his prime?

01:27:20.000 In essence, I did fight him in his prime.

01:27:23.000 And, you know, when you say prime, I was in my prime, too.

01:27:27.000 But you were definitely in your prime.

01:27:29.000 But I feel like his enthusiasm had waned before then, you know?

01:27:35.000 Um...

01:27:37.000 This is my perception.

01:27:38.000 How I look at that whole thing is Mike Tyson was an early bloomer.

01:27:42.000 I was a late bloomer.

01:27:44.000 So when both of us meet, there's never a perfect time.

01:27:49.000 Perfect time for us is when we meet in the middle.

01:27:51.000 Right, right, right.

01:27:52.000 And if he won, maybe people would look at it differently.

01:27:55.000 It's because you beat him and beat him so soundly that people look at it like maybe his time had already been gone.

01:28:01.000 Yeah, Lennox turned pro after Mike had already had a defeat.

01:28:05.000 Wow, no kidding.

01:28:06.000 Mike's turned pro in 89. Wow, I never even thought of that.

01:28:10.000 Mike lost in January of 89. Yeah, this is us up in Catskills.

01:28:14.000 Look at you.

01:28:15.000 Look at Kevin Rooney.

01:28:16.000 Wow, that is crazy, man.

01:28:19.000 God, that's crazy.

01:28:20.000 He was built back then, too.

01:28:21.000 He had a big neck.

01:28:23.000 Yeah, he was always doing those neck bridges.

01:28:25.000 But he also just had freak genetics.

01:28:28.000 Just a phenomenal genetic specimen.

01:28:31.000 You know, I had Teddy Atlas in here.

01:28:34.000 And Teddy Atlas used to take Mike to these smokers when he was 13. And Teddy was joking around about it.

01:28:39.000 He said, everybody always lied about how old people were.

01:28:41.000 They would tell you the kid was 16 and really he was 20. They always did that.

01:28:45.000 And he said, he goes, so how old is this kid?

01:28:48.000 He goes, 13. He goes, what does he weigh?

01:28:49.000 He goes, 190 pounds.

01:28:50.000 I was like, what the fuck, Teddy?

01:28:52.000 Come on, man.

01:28:53.000 He's like, I'm telling you, he's fucking 13. What do you want?

01:28:58.000 So, you know, nobody would believe it because he was such a specimen.

01:29:02.000 I watched that one.

01:29:03.000 Yeah, Teddy was great, man.

01:29:04.000 Do you think he should have stayed with Teddy?

01:29:07.000 Should've stayed with Kevin and Teddy.

01:29:09.000 Well, he definitely...

01:29:11.000 You know, he was so wild.

01:29:13.000 Like, how could you tell him what to do back then?

01:29:15.000 That was part of the problem.

01:29:16.000 I mean, he was never...

01:29:18.000 No one ever prepared him.

01:29:19.000 And this is one of the things that we discussed on the podcast was that he was a 12-year-old, 13-year-old boy, and he was getting hypnotized.

01:29:25.000 He came from a terrible background.

01:29:27.000 There was no love.

01:29:28.000 He was abandoned.

01:29:29.000 And all of a sudden, he's getting love and attention for something.

01:29:33.000 And this one thing was this man...

01:29:35.000 Who was telling him, you're going to be a great fighter.

01:29:37.000 You're going to be a world champion.

01:29:39.000 And he would hypnotize him, saying, you don't exist.

01:29:41.000 The task exists.

01:29:43.000 You're going to work the body and destroy this man.

01:29:46.000 And he would put these thoughts in his head, and Mike couldn't wait to just get out there and fuck people up, because that's where he got the love.

01:29:52.000 That's where he got the attention from.

01:29:54.000 But he never told him how to shut it off.

01:29:56.000 He didn't have time to work with him, because he was on his way out.

01:30:00.000 He was dying when he met Mike.

01:30:02.000 And so he only taught him how to destroy.

01:30:04.000 He never taught him how to cope.

01:30:06.000 He never taught him how to understand that there's going to be a lot of shit coming your way.

01:30:10.000 And you've got to know what that is.

01:30:11.000 And don't get caught up in that hype train.

01:30:13.000 Don't get wrapped up in Hollywood and, you know, he wound up marrying Robin Givens and, you know, all that.

01:30:19.000 I don't think Cuss foresaw all that other bullshit.

01:30:21.000 No.

01:30:21.000 How could he have?

01:30:22.000 No, if Cuss was around, Mike would be totally different.

01:30:25.000 He would have been a different man.

01:30:26.000 If Cuss lasted another 15 years.

01:30:28.000 Even if Jimmy Jacobs had lasted another five years.

01:30:31.000 Maybe, yeah.

01:30:31.000 It would have helped, but I mean, it's like once removed from Cuss.

01:30:35.000 It's like Kevin Rooney was once removed from Cuss, right?

01:30:38.000 And then Teddy Atlas was way more of a hardliner.

01:30:42.000 You know, Teddy Atlas you couldn't put any bullshit with.

01:30:44.000 And those other guys, you just got to go, ah.

01:30:46.000 Then you got to Aaron Snowell and all those guys that were with him.

01:30:48.000 Yeah, those guys were bummed.

01:30:49.000 Richard Giacchetti.

01:30:50.000 They could have never brought Mike to the dance.

01:30:55.000 They got there when he was already at the dance, and they're just trying to maintain things, and he's not listening to anybody.

01:31:01.000 They also weren't boxing people, as far as I was concerned.

01:31:04.000 When he was up with Cus, he was in a good situation.

01:31:10.000 You know, there was a lady in the house cooking meals.

01:31:13.000 They had Cus there being a father figure, talked to him every day.

01:31:17.000 And that's what young kids need.

01:31:18.000 They need that, you know, to be spoken with by older people.

01:31:24.000 And, you know, a lot of young people nowadays are not even respecting the older people, but they can gain a lot of information from an older person.

01:31:31.000 You know, how do you deal with this situation?

01:31:32.000 Well, you know, you hear from an older person, it kind of makes your mind think and say, you know, you're right.

01:31:37.000 It works for them.

01:31:38.000 So anytime I get a chance to talk to kids about, you know, their life and where they're going, always take that opportunity.

01:31:44.000 Well, you're such a great example of a guy who has done incredible things, but you've come out on the other end with wisdom and lessons and honesty, and you can talk about things and people will listen to you in a way that, you know, a lot of kids, they don't want to listen to someone who ain't done shit.

01:32:01.000 Right.

01:32:01.000 You talk to some guy who's just some boring dude who wants to give you advice, like, hey, fuckface, how about get your own shit together?

01:32:08.000 Tell me what to do, bitch.

01:32:09.000 But when you're Lennox Lewis and you talk to a kid, they go, oh, okay.

01:32:13.000 You know, chess master, world heavyweight champion.

01:32:16.000 What's that school you got in Jamaica now?

01:32:18.000 You got a boxing school there now, right?

01:32:19.000 Yeah, Lennox Lewis League of Champions.

01:32:22.000 Ooh.

01:32:22.000 Yeah, it's for young kids that, you know...

01:32:25.000 We're good to go.

01:32:41.000 You know, I was going through that and I liked how he dealt with it.

01:32:44.000 You know, it's like this is what's missing nowadays.

01:32:47.000 Yes.

01:32:48.000 The relationship with kids, you know, talking to them.

01:32:51.000 You know, just ask them how they are.

01:32:53.000 Ask them what they're doing.

01:32:54.000 What do they want to be?

01:32:55.000 Right, right, right.

01:32:56.000 Yeah, and then have some place where they can go.

01:32:58.000 Yeah.

01:32:59.000 And then have something that gives them a sense of value, you know.

01:33:02.000 And that's what a lot of sports does.

01:33:10.000 Yeah.

01:33:17.000 Yeah.

01:33:28.000 They never ran in their life.

01:33:30.000 Now they've run half a mile, didn't make the mile, but the next day they want to try the mile.

01:33:35.000 And it shows them that if you keep working at something, you'll accomplish it.

01:33:39.000 You know, don't give up.

01:33:41.000 All of a sudden you tried it and it's like, oh no, it's not for me.

01:33:44.000 Keep trying it.

01:33:45.000 You don't know it's not for you until you keep trying it and then realize it's not for you or for you.

01:33:51.000 What are you going to do if your son wants to fight?

01:33:53.000 Let him.

01:33:55.000 Yeah, I think your perspective would be very different than Mike's.

01:33:58.000 Yeah, for me, you know, I'm not forcing my son to box, but if he wants to try it, let him try it.

01:34:05.000 His father used to box, so why not try something his father did?

01:34:09.000 Maybe he has the gene for it.

01:34:11.000 You know, right now my son plays basketball.

01:34:13.000 He wants to be an actor.

01:34:15.000 He loves boxing.

01:34:16.000 He can do anything he wants.

01:34:18.000 You know, all my kids are talented, and I see the drive in them that I have and their mother has, so I know that they're going to be successful.

01:34:26.000 You know, they've...

01:34:27.000 They're basically, I'm trying to help them to become successful in the future and give them the tools to become successful in the future as well.

01:34:35.000 Good for you, man.

01:34:36.000 What a lucky young man.

01:34:38.000 Yeah, I mean, you know, and young women too.

01:34:41.000 Yeah, well, what a great situation to be your son, you know what I mean?

01:34:44.000 And your daughters as well, but for sure.

01:34:46.000 But I mean, to be your son, if you really do have a desire to box, would you start training him?

01:35:00.000 I was talking to George Foreman the other day, and one of his daughters were fighting.

01:35:05.000 Isn't her name George?

01:35:06.000 Yes.

01:35:07.000 Everyone's named George.

01:35:08.000 She's Georgina or something, right?

01:35:09.000 Some crazy shit.

01:35:10.000 He's got like eight Georges in his house.

01:35:12.000 I said, and I'm watching her fight.

01:35:14.000 They know by the tone, apparently.

01:35:17.000 Which one it is?

01:35:18.000 So strange.

01:35:18.000 The inflection on the...

01:35:20.000 I'm watching her fight and I'm like, George, you need to tell her some stuff.

01:35:25.000 I know there's some good things you can tell her or even get her a proper coach or, you know, help her.

01:35:30.000 Don't want her to fight.

01:35:32.000 Wow.

01:35:32.000 That's all you have to say.

01:35:34.000 Yeah.

01:35:34.000 But if you don't want her to fight and she's fighting, you're not going to help her.

01:35:38.000 She's going to get hurt.

01:35:38.000 So you might as well.

01:35:39.000 I think she stopped already anyway.

01:35:41.000 My approach to raising kids is I don't have any input onto what they do.

01:35:48.000 I would never tell my kid, I don't want you to do that.

01:35:51.000 Because it's not my life.

01:35:53.000 It's their life.

01:35:54.000 I give them guidance if I can.

01:35:56.000 I'll talk to them about what they're doing if I can.

01:35:59.000 But they also have to go out and do it themselves.

01:36:02.000 I really firmly believe in that.

01:36:04.000 You've got to go do it yourself.

01:36:05.000 But if you want to do it, that's your thing.

01:36:08.000 I try to convince my daughter to want to do jiu-jitsu.

01:36:11.000 Really?

01:36:11.000 I said, sweetheart, I'll get you a pink gi if you want.

01:36:14.000 My kids were doing martial arts for a while.

01:36:16.000 My middle daughter was doing jiu-jitsu and my youngest daughter was doing MMA. But she got bored with it after a while.

01:36:22.000 Which is cool too.

01:36:23.000 10 and 8. Who knows?

01:36:25.000 Maybe they'll come back to it.

01:36:27.000 I kind of whisper to my son right now, you need to do some wrestling.

01:36:32.000 Glenn, get him in jiu-jitsu.

01:36:34.000 I'm telling you.

01:36:34.000 Do you think you'd fight MMA? I don't know what the future holds.

01:36:40.000 He may fight MMA. Listen, if he's going to fight, he should box.

01:36:44.000 Why?

01:36:44.000 Just because of the money factor.

01:36:46.000 Yeah.

01:36:47.000 Do you know what I mean?

01:36:48.000 Honestly, I mean...

01:36:48.000 But if you're a heavyweight...

01:36:50.000 You know, if you're a heavyweight MMA fan, you can make a lot of money.

01:36:53.000 Yeah, well, he certainly will be.

01:36:54.000 It's like, if you met Lennox's brother, Dennis, they're nothing alike.

01:36:57.000 Well, just look at Lennox's bones.

01:36:58.000 I mean, you'd have a goddamn chance of being anything but a heavyweight.

01:37:02.000 It's like a child holding a fist up to a man.

01:37:04.000 Yeah, I have a pretty big fist, but yours are gigantic, man.

01:37:07.000 You know?

01:37:08.000 You're a huge human being, you know?

01:37:10.000 Your kid's going to be a heavyweight.

01:37:12.000 Oh, he's going to be a heavyweight.

01:37:13.000 He's already a heavyweight.

01:37:14.000 Listen, he's six foot, and he wears size 15 shoes.

01:37:18.000 Bah!

01:37:20.000 He doesn't need to fight.

01:37:21.000 You just keep a pair of his shoes by the front door.

01:37:23.000 He's 15, so I think he's going to outgrow me.

01:37:26.000 That's like a puppy.

01:37:27.000 He's going to be enormous.

01:37:29.000 Why do kids outgrow their parents?

01:37:32.000 I don't know.

01:37:32.000 I think it's food.

01:37:33.000 I think they get better food than us.

01:37:35.000 You think about how much protein children have now.

01:37:38.000 Have you ever go back and look at how big men were during the Civil War period?

01:37:42.000 They were tiny.

01:37:43.000 They were like 100 pounds.

01:37:44.000 They were tiny little people because nobody had good food.

01:37:47.000 Everybody was barely surviving.

01:37:49.000 Everyone was scraping by.

01:37:50.000 That was bread and water times.

01:37:51.000 Yeah, the people that made it across the West.

01:37:53.000 You ever see photos of those folks?

01:37:54.000 Those skinny, rickety looking people just starving to death.

01:37:57.000 Tougher than we could ever be.

01:37:58.000 Oh my God, they were little wolves.

01:37:59.000 Oh yeah, they're up in the early in the morning working.

01:38:02.000 They had to survive.

01:38:03.000 Yeah.

01:38:04.000 But now today, kids are getting massive amounts of protein and they get vitamins and vegetables and drinking...

01:38:12.000 All this milk.

01:38:13.000 The food's got shit in it.

01:38:14.000 Oh, yeah.

01:38:15.000 There's that, too.

01:38:16.000 There's that, too.

01:38:17.000 But I just think it's just an abundance of nutrition.

01:38:19.000 I mean, when people were smaller, a lot of it was because of malnutrition.

01:38:23.000 Like, look at Asian folks.

01:38:25.000 Like, a lot of Japanese folks used to be much smaller.

01:38:27.000 Now they're pretty fucking big.

01:38:29.000 You're getting some really big Japanese fighters.

01:38:32.000 Like, they're larger people.

01:38:33.000 Those guys are huge.

01:38:34.000 They're eating better.

01:38:35.000 You know what I wanted to ask you?

01:38:36.000 Please.

01:38:37.000 Conspiracy theories.

01:38:38.000 I know you have some.

01:38:40.000 Yeah, I got some.

01:38:40.000 I was listening to you about something about Martians the other day.

01:38:44.000 That was probably Alex Jones.

01:38:46.000 Alex and Eddie.

01:38:48.000 Oh my god, I saw an amazing NASA shirt I was going to buy for Eddie the other day.

01:38:51.000 Yeah, Alex wore a NASA shirt just to fuck with Eddie.

01:38:53.000 I saw that.

01:38:53.000 I watched it.

01:38:54.000 Yeah, Eddie believes shit that even Alex thinks is ridiculous.

01:38:58.000 Like, what conspiracy theories do you want to know about?

01:39:01.000 No, I'm like, let me hear some.

01:39:03.000 Well, I believe less and less than I ever used to.

01:39:06.000 Population control.

01:39:07.000 Do you believe that?

01:39:08.000 No.

01:39:08.000 I don't believe that.

01:39:09.000 I don't believe there's any concerted effort where there's a bunch of really rich people that have decided to euthanize a bunch of people to keep the population low.

01:39:19.000 I think that's paranoid.

01:39:22.000 I think that...

01:39:24.000 There's probably some people that go, you know what?

01:39:26.000 We would be a lot healthier if there was less people.

01:39:28.000 But there's no obvious effort.

01:39:31.000 The population keeps fucking growing.

01:39:34.000 Imagine if you were the all-powerful, all-knowing people that are running the world, and you're doing such a shitty job of population control.

01:39:40.000 Yeah, I don't know how you're going to control India and China.

01:39:42.000 You're not.

01:39:43.000 You're not.

01:39:43.000 You're not getting in these fucking dirty villages and trying to stop people.

01:39:46.000 You're not doing it anywhere.

01:39:47.000 Even in this country, people are fucking like wild animals and just shooting out kids.

01:39:50.000 I got a kid coming next month.

01:39:51.000 Hey, I got three kids.

01:39:53.000 Yeah, like, look, it's just the way it is, man.

01:39:55.000 People like to fuck.

01:39:56.000 They like to make people.

01:39:57.000 Well, in China, you only allowed one kid.

01:39:58.000 No, I think they lifted that.

01:40:00.000 They lifted that because a lot of people were drowning their daughters.

01:40:03.000 It was horrible shit.

01:40:06.000 This is the rumor.

01:40:10.000 People wanted a son.

01:40:12.000 If they had a daughter, they would...

01:40:13.000 Yeah, a daughter was like the lose for you.

01:40:16.000 And to me, a daughter's a win because they're so much easier to deal with.

01:40:20.000 Really?

01:40:21.000 I'm fine with my daughter.

01:40:22.000 We're like this.

01:40:24.000 Yeah, you know what, man?

01:40:25.000 I mean, just be happy.

01:40:25.000 But I got a guy coming.

01:40:27.000 A boy coming next month.

01:40:28.000 Oh, yeah.

01:40:28.000 You got to have the yin and the yang.

01:40:30.000 I got little Joseph Lennox Lewis Peters coming next month.

01:40:35.000 Joseph Lennox Rogan Peters.

01:40:36.000 He's going to be amazing.

01:40:38.000 I'm so happy that you gave him my name.

01:40:39.000 Yeah, that's beautiful.

01:40:40.000 I was going to give him your middle name, but I didn't want to do that to him.

01:40:43.000 What's your middle name?

01:40:44.000 Whoa, yes.

01:40:46.000 My middle name is Claudius.

01:40:48.000 Claudius?

01:40:48.000 Yeah.

01:40:49.000 That sounds like a Roman emperor.

01:40:50.000 Absolutely.

01:40:51.000 I Claudius.

01:40:52.000 There you go.

01:40:53.000 Beautiful.

01:40:53.000 Hey, man, I know you're supposed to get out of here at 2 o'clock.

01:40:56.000 Do you have a hard out?

01:40:57.000 No.

01:40:57.000 No?

01:40:57.000 You can stay?

01:40:58.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:40:59.000 Good.

01:40:59.000 Beautiful.

01:41:00.000 Let's keep talking.

01:41:00.000 Beautiful.

01:41:01.000 Yeah, so back to your question.

01:41:03.000 I think there's definitely some people that are influencing the way the world works, for sure.

01:41:08.000 But I don't think there's anybody that's really trying to control population or euthanize.

01:41:14.000 What about this one?

01:41:15.000 Do you think the Russians put Donald Trump in the president's chair?

01:41:20.000 I think the Russians absolutely wanted Donald Trump to win.

01:41:24.000 Absolutely.

01:41:24.000 And I think they definitely undermined our democracy through various methods of manipulating people through social media.

01:41:31.000 In fact, I have a woman coming on very soon.

01:41:33.000 When is Renee DiResto on?

01:41:35.000 This week?

01:42:04.000 Next week.

01:42:06.000 She's on next week.

01:42:07.000 Unrest.

01:42:07.000 Yeah, all sorts of unrest online.

01:42:09.000 They organized these meetings.

01:42:12.000 They organized one pro-Texas meeting across the street from a pro-Muslim meeting.

01:42:17.000 They did it on purpose.

01:42:18.000 Oh, I remember that.

01:42:18.000 They did it all through Facebook to get these people to fight with each other.

01:42:21.000 They're doing these things to try to get people to take sides and to get people to be angry at the other side.

01:42:28.000 They did a lot of shit like that, real sneaky, sneaky stuff that we probably do in foreign countries all the time.

01:42:34.000 And we're mad that they're doing it to us because now they're doing it through social media.

01:42:38.000 Well, if you think about when we were growing up in the 80s, 70s and 80s, all the imagery we saw of the USSR was very dark and gray and it was very barren and it was destitute.

01:42:49.000 Well, some of it was true, though.

01:42:50.000 Yeah, but that's all we saw.

01:42:52.000 And then all of a sudden that lifts and these hot fucking Russian chicks show up.

01:42:55.000 I'm like, what were these bitches this whole time?

01:42:59.000 Where was she in the propaganda?

01:43:01.000 That's so true.

01:43:02.000 You never saw the hot Russian ladies.

01:43:03.000 Never.

01:43:04.000 They're some of the hottest women on the planet.

01:43:05.000 Yeah, they used to show us these big manly women.

01:43:07.000 What do you want?

01:43:08.000 And now you're like, what?

01:43:09.000 Well, hello.

01:43:10.000 Where did that one come from?

01:43:12.000 They were hiding.

01:43:13.000 Yeah.

01:43:13.000 Yeah, I have two friends that are married to Russian ladies.

01:43:16.000 They're very happy.

01:43:17.000 Now, the question, because you're American and everything, I'm not American, so is this wall ever going to get built or what's the situation?

01:43:27.000 I think it was more of a campaign rhetoric thing, you know, build that wall, build that wall.

01:43:34.000 So he's kind of staying with it to keep his supporters?

01:43:37.000 Yeah, I think he's got to kind of do something, right?

01:43:39.000 Once you say that you're going to build a wall, you've got to kind of do something.

01:43:42.000 But there ain't shit been built.

01:43:44.000 I mean, we're two years into the president, they haven't built shit.

01:43:46.000 What, there's a year left and a year and a half left left?

01:43:48.000 There is some wall.

01:43:50.000 There's some wall that's up, but there's also some big-ass gaps.

01:43:53.000 And the idea that they're going to stop drugs from coming over from that wall is crazy.

01:43:57.000 Right now the wall looks like Leon Spinks' mouth.

01:43:59.000 Ah!

01:44:00.000 You son of a bitch.

01:44:03.000 People forgot about Leon Spinks, man.

01:44:05.000 I remember my parents were hippies, right?

01:44:07.000 But when Muhammad Ali lost to Leon Spinks, and then there was a rematch.

01:44:11.000 We watched it on television.

01:44:14.000 Everybody.

01:44:15.000 Everybody wanted Ali to win.

01:44:16.000 People forget that Ali wasn't just a great boxer and a heavyweight champion of the world.

01:44:22.000 He represented people that were against the war.

01:44:25.000 He represented people that were against all of the discrimination.

01:44:36.000 We're good to go.

01:44:51.000 Prime years, too.

01:44:52.000 And he was a hero.

01:44:54.000 He could have given in.

01:44:55.000 He could have got a cushy job like Elvis or some shit.

01:44:59.000 And they would have had him go over there just to make it look like he was doing something.

01:45:04.000 He's like, no fucking chance.

01:45:06.000 He stood up for it.

01:45:07.000 My parents, who were hippies, wanted him to win.

01:45:11.000 I mean, my mom didn't give a fuck about boxing.

01:45:14.000 That's what he stood for.

01:45:16.000 I was a little kid.

01:45:17.000 I remember watching this on TV thinking, this is crazy.

01:45:19.000 My parents want to watch a boxing match because of what he stands for.

01:45:25.000 My dad felt that way about Joe Lewis and Robinson.

01:45:28.000 When Joe Lewis beat Max Schmeling.

01:45:30.000 Oh yeah, same.

01:45:31.000 It was a very similar thing.

01:45:32.000 He was beating Max Schmeling for the world.

01:45:35.000 I feel terrible for Max Schmeling because he was probably just caught up in all that shit.

01:45:40.000 Max even said he wasn't part of it.

01:45:42.000 He was just a pawn in the game.

01:45:45.000 Yeah, I'm sure.

01:45:47.000 What about Jack Johnson?

01:45:49.000 That's my favorite.

01:45:50.000 That's the craziest of all stories.

01:45:50.000 I mean, other than Lennox Lewis.

01:45:52.000 Jack Johnson's my favorite.

01:45:53.000 That's the craziest of all stories, right?

01:45:55.000 Can you imagine what that guy must have experienced?

01:45:58.000 And the shit he said back then?

01:46:00.000 Yeah.

01:46:00.000 He would slick talk you bad.

01:46:02.000 My favorite one, there's a meme, a photo of him in his car.

01:46:05.000 I don't even know if the story's true.

01:46:07.000 About the $50?

01:46:07.000 Yes.

01:46:09.000 I don't have change.

01:46:10.000 I'm coming back tonight.

01:46:10.000 Same speed.

01:46:11.000 Yeah, he got pulled over going 50. He had to give the guy $50.

01:46:15.000 That was the fee.

01:46:15.000 He gave the guy $100.

01:46:16.000 He goes, what's this for?

01:46:17.000 He goes, I'm going to be coming back later that night.

01:46:18.000 Same speed, motherfucker.

01:46:21.000 Then there's the story of him getting in a taxi, getting in the backseat of the taxi, and the guy goes, I don't drive Nigers.

01:46:28.000 And he reached over, pulled the guy into the backseat, got in the front, drove himself to where he had to get to.

01:46:33.000 And the guy's like, where's my fare?

01:46:35.000 Because I drove myself.

01:46:36.000 And he got out.

01:46:37.000 I wonder if that's true.

01:46:38.000 You know, he could wrestle.

01:46:39.000 These are all in his book.

01:46:40.000 You know, he wrestled?

01:46:41.000 This video of Jack Johnson wrestling.

01:46:44.000 He had a 13-inch wrist.

01:46:45.000 He was a gigantic human being.

01:46:47.000 For the time, but I think he was only 6'2".

01:46:50.000 They called him the Galveston Giant.

01:46:56.000 GQ magazine rated him as best-dressed athlete of the century in 2000. That's the wrong century.

01:47:04.000 Well, of the 20th century.

01:47:06.000 Oh, right.

01:47:06.000 Get it.

01:47:07.000 In 2000, they did it.

01:47:09.000 Yeah, the whole 20th century.

01:47:12.000 Well, I don't think any of us could even imagine what it must have been like when he won the title and the kind of hate that he got.

01:47:20.000 All the people that wanted him to be killed.

01:47:22.000 But the shit he did was so gangster.

01:47:24.000 He would hit you, see your knees buckle, and hold you up.

01:47:28.000 And he would say things to the guys.

01:47:29.000 Not yet, sir.

01:47:30.000 Not yet, boss.

01:47:31.000 Not yet.

01:47:31.000 You're going to have a longer night than this.

01:47:33.000 He would just torture these guys.

01:47:35.000 Yo, this guy knows boxing.

01:47:37.000 Did you ever see his fight with Stanley Ketchel?

01:47:39.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:47:40.000 The Boilermaker?

01:47:40.000 Yeah, Stanley Ketchel dropped him.

01:47:42.000 Yeah, that was supposed to be...

01:47:43.000 It was supposed to be a...

01:47:45.000 Exhibition?

01:47:46.000 An exhibition about him.

01:47:47.000 Stanley Ketchel was a middleweight, right?

01:47:48.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:47:49.000 And then he hit him.

01:47:50.000 Oh, okay.

01:47:51.000 And then his teeth got stuck in his gloves.

01:47:53.000 Yeah, he smashed him.

01:47:54.000 Wow.

01:47:54.000 Yeah.

01:47:55.000 He had a fascinating style.

01:47:57.000 When they had those little gloves...

01:47:59.000 Yeah, what you guys don't realize, I was going to say, the little gloves, horse hair...

01:48:02.000 Yeah.

01:48:03.000 Different world.

01:48:04.000 Yeah.

01:48:04.000 Yeah, little gloves were hard.

01:48:05.000 You break your fucking hands real easy, too, and MMA fighters...

01:48:08.000 But they hurt more.

01:48:09.000 Because they were not padded.

01:48:10.000 That shit hurt.

01:48:11.000 Well, it's like MMA gloves.

01:48:12.000 Yeah.

01:48:13.000 MMA fighters find out the hard way.

01:48:15.000 Like, you can't just...

01:48:16.000 You can open up with boxing and not even worry as much about what you're hitting.

01:48:20.000 You cannot do that if you're fighting bare knuckle.

01:48:23.000 No.

01:48:24.000 Have you seen that bare-knuckle boxing thing?

01:48:26.000 I was just going to say, what is this bare-knuckle resurgence?

01:48:28.000 I think these guys are tough.

01:48:30.000 Yeah, they're definitely tough.

01:48:31.000 But you've got pro boxers going in it now.

01:48:33.000 Yeah.

01:48:34.000 Who went in it?

01:48:35.000 Somebody...

01:48:35.000 A decent name was in it recently.

01:48:38.000 Well, a lot of UFC fighters.

01:48:39.000 Yeah, no matter that.

01:48:40.000 Their careers are over.

01:48:41.000 Yeah.

01:48:41.000 They've gone in.

01:48:42.000 It's like a rugby or football.

01:48:45.000 Right, right, right.

01:48:46.000 The rugby guys are tougher than the football players.

01:48:48.000 100%.

01:48:49.000 Yeah.

01:48:50.000 Yeah.

01:48:50.000 The Italian guy is in it, too.

01:48:53.000 I saw him doing the bare knuckle thing.

01:48:55.000 Italian guy.

01:48:56.000 He was a UFC fighter.

01:48:57.000 From Italy?

01:48:58.000 No, no, no.

01:48:58.000 An Italian-American.

01:49:00.000 Oh, Phil Barone?

01:49:01.000 Yeah, Phil Barone.

01:49:02.000 Wasn't he doing the bare knuckle?

01:49:03.000 Yeah, he did one.

01:49:04.000 Yeah, quite a few MMA fighters.

01:49:07.000 Melvin Glar did some.

01:49:09.000 But it's sort of a last resort kind of thing.

01:49:13.000 Trying to pick up a paycheck.

01:49:14.000 Chris Lytle did it.

01:49:17.000 It's just a hard way to make a living.

01:49:20.000 What about 1FC? What's this guy knocking at the door?

01:49:24.000 Is he saying the time?

01:49:25.000 Tell this motherfucker to sit down.

01:49:27.000 It's your boy.

01:49:29.000 Who, my guy?

01:49:29.000 Yeah, he's not gonna go.

01:49:30.000 Who, Eddie?

01:49:30.000 Yeah.

01:49:31.000 The Mexican?

01:49:31.000 Yeah.

01:49:32.000 No, he's good.

01:49:33.000 Don't fire him.

01:49:34.000 He's trying to get in.

01:49:34.000 The other guy's talking to him.

01:49:36.000 So Lennox's fella is talking to your fella.

01:49:39.000 My assistant?

01:49:40.000 My assistant knows better.

01:49:41.000 Well, people get silly.

01:49:43.000 It's like a good meal, you know.

01:49:44.000 Once you're enjoying this meal, you just want to finish it.

01:49:47.000 I know.

01:49:47.000 What do they have you doing after this?

01:49:49.000 Just more interviews.

01:49:50.000 They got me busy.

01:49:52.000 Boring-ass interviews, though.

01:49:53.000 What are you promoting?

01:49:54.000 Promoting the fights.

01:49:56.000 Which fights?

01:49:56.000 We haven't talked about any of them.

01:49:58.000 Yeah.

01:49:59.000 You couldn't promote a fart at a bean-eating contest.

01:50:01.000 We're talking about chess and...

01:50:03.000 Get the fuck out of here.

01:50:05.000 You get the fuck out of here.

01:50:07.000 Tell your boy.

01:50:08.000 It's you.

01:50:08.000 I'm good.

01:50:09.000 I'm good, Eddie.

01:50:09.000 Don't worry about me.

01:50:10.000 I've already told them.

01:50:11.000 I don't have to be somewhere until 4.30.

01:50:13.000 I'm going to put some two-way glass there where we can see out and they can't see in.

01:50:18.000 That's a good idea.

01:50:19.000 Yeah.

01:50:20.000 Silly boy trying to interrupt podcast.

01:50:21.000 Fucking Eddie.

01:50:22.000 Jesus, Eddie.

01:50:23.000 Sean Porter is fighting this weekend.

01:50:25.000 Who's he fighting?

01:50:27.000 Ugas from Cuba.

01:50:30.000 Oh, they said Ugas.

01:50:31.000 I'm like, I don't know who.

01:50:34.000 It should be a good fight.

01:50:35.000 And this is on?

01:50:36.000 This is on Fox PPC. Oh, nice.

01:50:39.000 Yeah.

01:50:39.000 Porter's a champ right now, right?

01:50:41.000 He won the title from Thurman, didn't he?

01:50:44.000 Yeah.

01:50:45.000 Or did he win it from Danny Garcia?

01:50:48.000 Danny Garcia?

01:50:49.000 I don't know.

01:50:52.000 Don't you watch boxing?

01:50:53.000 Aren't you a boxer?

01:50:54.000 Yeah, of course.

01:50:55.000 Jesus.

01:50:56.000 Tell me, I'll tell you anything about the heavyweights.

01:50:58.000 Are you doing commentary on this tonight?

01:50:59.000 Blast beat Danny Garcia.

01:51:00.000 Yes.

01:51:01.000 Yeah, he beat Danny Garcia.

01:51:02.000 So you're doing commentary on this?

01:51:03.000 Yes.

01:51:03.000 For Fox?

01:51:04.000 Yes.

01:51:04.000 Nice.

01:51:05.000 It should be a good fight.

01:51:06.000 It should be a very good fight.

01:51:07.000 Yeah.

01:51:08.000 Yeah, there it is, right there.

01:51:09.000 Oh, he grew his hair out.

01:51:12.000 Every time Sean Porter fights...

01:51:14.000 Who's that Smurf?

01:51:14.000 Oh, it's Lennox.

01:51:17.000 Every time Sean Porter fights, he's always a serious brawl.

01:51:23.000 You know, this guy reminds me of the old time fighters, the way this guy fights.

01:51:27.000 You know, it gives you a lot of pressure.

01:51:28.000 He's on you.

01:51:30.000 Somebody needs to help him tie his tie, though.

01:51:32.000 He doesn't mind taking the shot to punch you, so he mixes it up.

01:51:37.000 He's a tough guy.

01:51:38.000 That's this Saturday night?

01:51:39.000 Yes.

01:51:39.000 Nice.

01:51:41.000 Yeah, there's a lot of great fights coming out.

01:51:43.000 Mikey Garcia, Earl Spence Jr. Excited about that.

01:51:46.000 That's a very good fight.

01:51:47.000 Makes me nervous, though.

01:51:48.000 It makes me nervous.

01:51:49.000 Why?

01:51:50.000 That's a great fight.

01:51:50.000 That's what everybody wants to see.

01:51:52.000 It's a great fight, but I like Mikey Garcia, but to me it's like...

01:51:56.000 I like both of those guys.

01:51:57.000 I like them both.

01:51:58.000 I think Mikey's plus in this fight is that Spence hasn't had pressure like this and Mikey doesn't tank out on anybody.

01:52:05.000 He does not gas out and he's not afraid to mix it up with you.

01:52:08.000 What about the size difference?

01:52:10.000 That's what I'm worried about.

01:52:11.000 It's the size difference, the weight difference.

01:52:13.000 I mean, I would have preferred Mikey had one more fight before he fought Spence, but they know what they're doing.

01:52:18.000 He's ready.

01:52:19.000 He's whole family's boxing specialists, you know.

01:52:24.000 I've trained with his brother before, with Robert.

01:52:26.000 Have you really?

01:52:27.000 In Oxnard?

01:52:27.000 Yeah.

01:52:28.000 Really?

01:52:28.000 Yeah.

01:52:28.000 No shit.

01:52:29.000 Yeah.

01:52:30.000 Look at you.

01:52:30.000 Great gym.

01:52:31.000 Trained jiu-jitsu with John Jock Machado.

01:52:33.000 You're boxing with Robert Garcia.

01:52:35.000 Lomachenko was there training the day I went.

01:52:36.000 Goddamn.

01:52:37.000 Teddy's up there right now working with that light heavyweight Russian character.

01:52:41.000 Oh, that Uzek?

01:52:43.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:52:43.000 That kid's amazing.

01:52:44.000 Yeah, Uzek.

01:52:45.000 Yeah.

01:52:46.000 I trained over at Goosen's gym over the Christmas holidays.

01:52:51.000 Oh, did you really?

01:52:51.000 I hadn't boxed in two years.

01:52:52.000 Oh, my God, I suck.

01:52:54.000 My fucking hands hurt.

01:52:56.000 I'm like, God, fuck this sport.

01:52:58.000 What, your hands itself?

01:52:59.000 My hands were hurting after that.

01:53:01.000 Did you wrap them?

01:53:02.000 I wrapped them.

01:53:03.000 I may wrap them too tight.

01:53:04.000 Fucking, you got soft hands.

01:53:07.000 Don't make me square up, kid.

01:53:10.000 It's been two years.

01:53:12.000 I was like, ah, how did I do this?

01:53:14.000 Gotta do it slow.

01:53:15.000 You know what it was?

01:53:17.000 Because he knew I used to train back in the day, so I was like, I want it to look good, and I'm like, ah.

01:53:22.000 Okay, let me help you.

01:53:23.000 You know what you do?

01:53:25.000 See, this is where the martial arts comes in, buddy.

01:53:28.000 Get this thing of sand, and you just start punching it.

01:53:34.000 Sand.

01:53:35.000 Toughen you up a little bit, son.

01:53:37.000 Toughen you up, son.

01:53:38.000 When I say my hands hurt, I meant like the joints.

01:53:40.000 My joints were hurting.

01:53:41.000 Well, you know what people do?

01:53:42.000 You ever see rice bags?

01:53:44.000 They stick their hand in rice bags.

01:53:45.000 They do a lot of this inside rice bags.

01:53:47.000 That apparently is very good for your hands.

01:53:50.000 I did that, but my mom got mad I was fucking up her rice.

01:53:54.000 So, um...

01:53:56.000 What did you do about it?

01:53:58.000 Your hands.

01:54:01.000 I went home and just soaked them.

01:54:04.000 If you just get back to doing it, it'll come back to you.

01:54:06.000 Yeah, I know.

01:54:07.000 I figured that much.

01:54:08.000 Bring a tennis ball everywhere.

01:54:09.000 I'm just like, I'm going to stick with jiu-jitsu.

01:54:11.000 It doesn't hurt as much.

01:54:12.000 Jiu-jitsu doesn't hurt your hands?

01:54:13.000 No.

01:54:14.000 I wear those little Luta gear guards.

01:54:17.000 What?

01:54:17.000 Luta gear.

01:54:18.000 Have you seen them?

01:54:18.000 They got these little finger guards that actually help.

01:54:21.000 What are they?

01:54:21.000 Strengthen.

01:54:22.000 They make a two finger and a three finger.

01:54:25.000 I have no idea what that is.

01:54:26.000 I wear the three finger.

01:54:27.000 It's just like a little cut off glove for your fingers.

01:54:30.000 Really?

01:54:30.000 Holds them together.

01:54:31.000 This ninja thing.

01:54:32.000 It's nice.

01:54:33.000 Does it give you more traction too?

01:54:35.000 Not necessarily, but it just keeps your fingers together.

01:54:38.000 It keeps them from separating so you don't fucking pop your finger out.

01:54:41.000 That's probably good if you're a guitarist or some shit, huh?

01:54:43.000 Probably.

01:54:43.000 My mom uses some two for arthritis.

01:54:45.000 Oh, look at that.

01:54:46.000 That's it?

01:54:46.000 Yeah, that's the two-finger joint.

01:54:47.000 Wow.

01:54:48.000 I use the three.

01:54:49.000 I've never even fucked with those.

01:54:51.000 Yeah.

01:54:51.000 I'm old school, bro.

01:54:52.000 I just tape my shit up.

01:54:54.000 Yeah, but you're also fucking gorilla strong.

01:54:56.000 It's weird.

01:54:57.000 Why is it weird?

01:54:58.000 Because it's like playing with a fucking silverback gorilla.

01:55:03.000 Even when I watched you roll with Jean-Jacques that day, I was like, you want to roll?

01:55:06.000 I go, no, I don't.

01:55:07.000 Yeah.

01:55:08.000 I'll do it now, but then I'm like, no, but...

01:55:11.000 I've been doing it a long time, man.

01:55:13.000 I started jujitsu in 96. We're rolling tomorrow, right?

01:55:15.000 Yeah.

01:55:16.000 I'm calling them now.

01:55:17.000 We're going to probably roll around 8.30 in the morning if that's cool with you.

01:55:20.000 Yeah, that works.

01:55:21.000 Yeah, we could do that.

01:55:22.000 What's different about jujitsu and wrestling?

01:55:25.000 What's the difference?

01:55:26.000 Depending upon whether or not you use the gi, the gi is a big factor because you can grab a hold of that.

01:55:31.000 It makes you more defensive minded because you can get caught in things.

01:55:35.000 You can get caught in submissions easier.

01:55:37.000 Submissions are the big thing, obviously.

01:55:38.000 But I do a lot of no gi.

01:55:40.000 I have a black belt no gi jujitsu and gi jujitsu.

01:55:42.000 I actually prefer no gi.

01:55:45.000 What do you want to do tomorrow?

01:55:46.000 We do whatever.

01:55:47.000 We do gi.

01:55:47.000 I don't care.

01:55:48.000 I just don't use it.

01:55:50.000 I just don't use the gi.

01:56:10.000 We're good to go.

01:56:15.000 I was trying to make a joke out of no gi.

01:56:19.000 Oh.

01:56:19.000 Somebody having the gi.

01:56:20.000 Joe's a gi lord.

01:56:24.000 It is definitely a slower game.

01:56:26.000 Older dudes in particular, they seem to like the gi because they can kind of control you.

01:56:31.000 It's good for you and it could also be used against you, which is bad.

01:56:35.000 Well, if you have a winter coat on, man.

01:56:37.000 Like I always said, the worst thing to do is get in a fight with a judo black belt when you've got a winter coat on.

01:56:42.000 Or even a suit.

01:56:44.000 Even a sweater like that is good.

01:56:48.000 We're looking at you.

01:56:49.000 It's all gravy.

01:56:51.000 Yeah.

01:56:52.000 You got your blue belt now, right?

01:56:54.000 Yeah.

01:56:55.000 When do you think you get a purple belt?

01:56:57.000 You're on your way, right?

01:56:57.000 I got to get some stripes.

01:56:59.000 I talked to JJ about it.

01:57:00.000 I go, dude, I'm trying to train more so I can get a stripe.

01:57:02.000 He goes, yeah, you're due for a stripe.

01:57:03.000 I go, well, I got to fucking train more so I can get the stripe.

01:57:06.000 I don't want the stripe.

01:57:06.000 I want to earn the stripe.

01:57:08.000 Are you doing things other than your jujitsu training in terms of like physical training?

01:57:12.000 Maybe a little dumbbells and yoga ball.

01:57:14.000 Yeah, that's it?

01:57:15.000 You should get a trainer.

01:57:17.000 It'll make a big difference.

01:57:19.000 Think about your body as like a race car, right?

01:57:22.000 If you could just lift weights and your race car would go faster, wouldn't you do that?

01:57:27.000 If there was a thing you could do, you could make your race car?

01:57:29.000 I do my little dumbbells, but my elbow fucking hurts lately, so I quit being a baby.

01:57:35.000 This is the thing I was talking about.

01:57:36.000 What do you do?

01:57:36.000 For tennis elbow?

01:57:37.000 Right.

01:57:38.000 I was having a problem with my elbow.

01:57:40.000 You hold it like that, like you twist it, like this, and then you untwist it with your arm.

01:57:46.000 So you hold it like this, twist, and then untwist it.

01:57:50.000 You do it slowly, and it works on these tendons, the same tendons that you get.

01:57:54.000 But it's just so shitty how I got it from fucking sleeping.

01:57:57.000 Could we have him try that right now?

01:57:59.000 Let's see.

01:58:01.000 Damn, that's a lot heavier than it looks.

01:58:02.000 So you twist it?

01:58:03.000 And then untwist it.

01:58:05.000 Yeah, like twist it like that, right?

01:58:08.000 And then level it out and then slowly untwist it.

01:58:13.000 That's good.

01:58:14.000 Yeah.

01:58:15.000 Just gonna do it over and over and over again.

01:58:17.000 A little bit.

01:58:18.000 It's far more dense than it looks.

01:58:20.000 Yeah.

01:58:20.000 It's great for your tendons.

01:58:22.000 It specifically works this part of your arm, like down in here.

01:58:26.000 Now you just look like you're jerking off, Len.

01:58:31.000 That's good, too.

01:58:32.000 You know what else is good?

01:58:33.000 A roller.

01:58:34.000 You know, like when you have one of those cords.

01:58:35.000 Those foam rollers?

01:58:35.000 No, a cord with like a weight at the bottom of it, and you've got to roll it with your wrists.

01:58:39.000 Oh, yeah, we used to do that in boxing back in the day.

01:58:40.000 Those are great.

01:58:41.000 People just used to fabricate them in the gym.

01:58:43.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:58:44.000 I remember those.

01:58:44.000 Yeah, like a stick with a roller.

01:58:46.000 Those are great, yeah.

01:58:47.000 I have one of those out there, too.

01:58:48.000 It's just, that's one of the best exercises.

01:58:49.000 Yeah, for your forearms, right?

01:58:50.000 Yeah, for your forearms and gripping.

01:58:52.000 Just have that kind of strength.

01:58:55.000 Good.

01:58:56.000 You would be awesome at jiu-jitsu.

01:58:57.000 I guarantee you.

01:58:58.000 Because you're a chess player.

01:58:59.000 And jiu-jitsu is very cerebral.

01:59:04.000 Boxing, obviously, is very cerebral, too.

01:59:06.000 But you're limited in your weapons.

01:59:07.000 You don't have a certain amount of angles you can punch from.

01:59:09.000 Whereas jiu-jitsu, there's an endless combination of transitions.

01:59:13.000 You get some time to think in certain positions.

01:59:16.000 Yeah.

01:59:17.000 I had a teacher that did Aikido?

01:59:20.000 Yeah, with the bones.

01:59:22.000 That's what he did to that dude in the jewelry shop.

01:59:25.000 I did half Aikido, half Jiu Jitsu.

01:59:27.000 He did something to me and I realized, okay, I gotta watch out for that.

01:59:32.000 It's where a person manipulates your bone and then drops their whole weight on it.

01:59:37.000 Yeah, that shit could break your hand too.

01:59:40.000 If you don't go with it, it'll break your hand.

01:59:43.000 Fredson Paishow does that shit to people.

01:59:45.000 Yeah, Marcelo Garcia has tapped people out, like high-level people with wrist locks in jiu-jitsu tournaments.

01:59:50.000 Yeah, John Jack was showing me how to wrist lock a guy while you're done.

01:59:52.000 I'm like, damn.

01:59:53.000 He's like, it's not nice.

01:59:54.000 Don't do it to people.

01:59:55.000 But you can do this if you want.

01:59:57.000 Yeah, there's some nasty shit.

01:59:58.000 The thing is, there's no end to jiu-jitsu.

02:00:01.000 There's no end.

02:00:02.000 And yeah, there's no like, these are all the moves and that's it.

02:00:05.000 People keep inventing moves.

02:00:06.000 Constantly.

02:00:07.000 Yeah.

02:00:07.000 I just found out a new move yesterday when Rubber Guard Assassins on Instagram, they figured out some crazy Kimura you do from a closed guard that leads to a triangle.

02:00:17.000 I'm like, what the fuck is this?

02:00:19.000 Somebody has to let you do a lot of those things to them.

02:00:21.000 Some of them, yeah.

02:00:22.000 But sometimes people don't know what you're doing.

02:00:24.000 They don't even know you're letting them do it.

02:00:26.000 I'm always concerned about Rubber Guard with your knees, like fucking up your knee joints.

02:00:29.000 Because you've got to be very flexible to get that Rubber Guard in.

02:00:32.000 Yeah, just stretch.

02:00:34.000 Yeah.

02:00:35.000 Stretch.

02:00:36.000 Rubber guard?

02:00:37.000 I don't know.

02:00:38.000 You don't know what that is?

02:00:39.000 It's where you put somebody in between your legs.

02:00:41.000 When you describe it, it sounds so gay.

02:00:43.000 You put somebody between your legs, and then you pull your leg over their head, but their head has to pop through, so now you're controlling them.

02:00:51.000 You can hold their head this way.

02:00:54.000 It's a lot of fucking rubberiness that I don't have the ability to do.

02:00:58.000 It was invented by my friend Eddie Bravo, but there was some guys who would play high guard before that.

02:01:04.000 There it is.

02:01:06.000 That's a good example of it.

02:01:07.000 That's what it looks like.

02:01:08.000 So he's pulling down, using his leg and his arms to control a guy, and wraps him up.

02:01:16.000 While he's down.

02:01:17.000 Yeah, so he's on the bottom.

02:01:19.000 It looks like a Gracie move.

02:01:21.000 It is.

02:01:22.000 Well, it's a jiu-jitsu move.

02:01:23.000 It's a Bravo move.

02:01:24.000 All jiu-jitsu, essentially.

02:01:26.000 That's Eddie right there.

02:01:26.000 Yeah, there he is.

02:01:28.000 Eddie and Joe came up under my teacher, and then Eddie took it to another level from there.

02:01:34.000 Well, Eddie just branched out and went into no-gi.

02:01:38.000 But he has a black belt in the gi as well.

02:01:41.000 Much more concerned with no-gi techniques, because he wanted techniques that would work in mixed martial arts.

02:01:46.000 So in mixed martial arts, you don't have the collars to grab and the sleeves to grab, so he wanted to invent a system that you could use Especially when you have the ability to fight off your back.

02:01:59.000 That's Ben Saunders, who's one of the best at it in MMA. If you get wrapped up, you're on top of a dude and he wraps you up with his legs like that.

02:02:07.000 It's very demoralizing.

02:02:10.000 You get so trapped in there.

02:02:12.000 Human nature tells you when you're on your back and there's a guy on top of you, you're in trouble.

02:02:15.000 But in jiu-jitsu, you're like, that's fine.

02:02:18.000 If you've got a good guard, like John Jock.

02:02:19.000 Yeah.

02:02:21.000 Yeah.

02:02:22.000 Wow.

02:02:22.000 Do you have any interest in that?

02:02:24.000 Where do you live these days?

02:02:25.000 I live in Canada.

02:02:26.000 You still live in Toronto?

02:02:27.000 Yeah.

02:02:27.000 I was in Jamaica for a minute.

02:02:28.000 Yeah?

02:02:29.000 You were living in Jamaica for a minute?

02:02:30.000 Yeah.

02:02:30.000 That was fun.

02:02:31.000 I love Toronto.

02:02:32.000 It was one of my favorite places on the planet.

02:02:33.000 That's where you first met him.

02:02:34.000 I introduced you to him.

02:02:35.000 Yeah.

02:02:35.000 I was telling him earlier.

02:02:36.000 At the nightclub.

02:02:37.000 Yeah.

02:02:39.000 I took Joe to a nightclub to meet Lennox.

02:02:40.000 And I remember that meeting though.

02:02:42.000 That's when, what's his name, was playing?

02:02:44.000 Scratch.

02:02:45.000 Scratch was playing and everybody was there.

02:02:48.000 Toronto's just such a perfect city.

02:02:50.000 It's like the people are nice, but it's urban.

02:02:53.000 Like it's very populated.

02:02:55.000 There's a lot of people, but they don't have that asshole vibe that like New York has.

02:02:59.000 I think it's the fifth largest city in North America.

02:03:01.000 Is it?

02:03:02.000 Yeah.

02:03:02.000 Let me tell you, they're building like mad over there.

02:03:05.000 A lot of condos made out of glass.

02:03:09.000 Renters' market.

02:03:11.000 But tiny little places.

02:03:13.000 Well, there's so much cool shit there, and now that weed's legal, it's probably booming in Canada.

02:03:17.000 But weed was never really an issue there.

02:03:18.000 If you got caught with it, like, just stop it.

02:03:21.000 But now, it's like you'd go to the stores.

02:03:23.000 You know, there's stores on the street.

02:03:26.000 Is it that easy over there?

02:03:27.000 Oh, yeah.

02:03:28.000 Yeah, I think they're having a couple stores.

02:03:30.000 We saw some.

02:03:31.000 We saw some stores.

02:03:33.000 They're opening like about 25 or 50 in Toronto.

02:03:38.000 So the government's giving them free rent.

02:03:39.000 It's a great place, man.

02:03:41.000 I did that place that you do, the Scotiabank.

02:03:44.000 They're Canada Centre.

02:03:44.000 Oh, Scotiabank, yeah.

02:03:45.000 They call it Scotiabank now?

02:03:46.000 Yeah, I just did it in November.

02:03:48.000 He came.

02:03:48.000 And then you were there, I think, like a month before me when I left.

02:03:51.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:03:52.000 I was there before my Netflix special came out.

02:03:54.000 It came out in October, so I think I was there around then.

02:03:56.000 Yeah.

02:03:57.000 Yeah, I fucking love it up there, man.

02:03:59.000 That's probably one of my favorite cities to visit.

02:04:00.000 Come on back.

02:04:01.000 I love it.

02:04:02.000 Massey Hall.

02:04:03.000 Love that place.

02:04:03.000 We did that together.

02:04:04.000 Yes, that was fun, man.

02:04:05.000 You, me, and Big J. Oh, that's right.

02:04:08.000 That's right.

02:04:09.000 That's right.

02:04:10.000 Yeah, that was a good time, man.

02:04:12.000 The UFCs there are always great, too.

02:04:14.000 Yeah.

02:04:14.000 Good support.

02:04:15.000 They love it up there.

02:04:16.000 Yeah.

02:04:17.000 Well, it's just...

02:04:18.000 Toronto's just such a...

02:04:19.000 It's such an unusual city.

02:04:20.000 Like, Canada in general.

02:04:22.000 Like, I'll ask you this.

02:04:23.000 Why are people so nice?

02:04:25.000 There's so much nicer than Americans.

02:04:27.000 It's, uh...

02:04:28.000 I don't know.

02:04:28.000 It's different.

02:04:29.000 There's nice Americans.

02:04:31.000 When you say nice, you're saying...

02:04:33.000 Friendlier.

02:04:33.000 They're more polite.

02:04:34.000 Yeah, more polite.

02:04:35.000 Yeah, I find that too.

02:04:36.000 I think Americans are nicer as far as...

02:04:41.000 Have you been to New York lately?

02:04:42.000 Yeah, I love New York.

02:04:44.000 Here's the thing.

02:04:45.000 Canadians are polite, but we'll talk shit about you when you're not looking.

02:04:49.000 I'll take that.

02:04:51.000 I'll take that over being rude in my face.

02:04:53.000 But Canadians can also get freaked out by people being forward, which Americans are considered very forward.

02:05:00.000 It's an outgoing thing.

02:05:03.000 Whereas an American would be like, hey, I want to ask you something.

02:05:07.000 Canadians would be like, oh, why is this person so aggressive?

02:05:10.000 Whereas a Canadian would be like, excuse me, I'd like to ask you a question.

02:05:13.000 That's true.

02:05:14.000 It's very similar, but just different approaches.

02:05:18.000 As far as stand-up comedy, how good is the community in Canada?

02:05:23.000 Is it like the community in America where there's a lot of up-and-coming people?

02:05:28.000 There's a lot of comics in Canada.

02:05:30.000 A lot of great ones come out of Canada.

02:05:33.000 The problem is there's no...

02:05:36.000 The money's not there.

02:05:37.000 So no matter...

02:05:38.000 Touring around.

02:05:39.000 Yeah, like the clubs.

02:05:41.000 Once you get...

02:05:41.000 You know, the clubs tap out at like maybe you'll make...

02:05:44.000 Let's see what...

02:05:45.000 Six shows on a weekend.

02:05:47.000 A good headliner can make $1,200.

02:05:49.000 That's it.

02:05:50.000 I mean, that's pretty fucking insane.

02:05:52.000 Yeah, it's rough.

02:05:53.000 Especially if they're selling out and making drink money.

02:05:56.000 Yeah, that's the problem is that the club, I liken it to the UFC almost to a certain degree.

02:06:02.000 It's not about the comic, it's about the name of the club.

02:06:05.000 Like Yuck Yucks.

02:06:06.000 Yeah, Yuck Yucks is about Yuck Yucks.

02:06:07.000 It doesn't matter who's there, it's about Yuck Yucks.

02:06:09.000 The UFC is about UFC, it doesn't matter who the fucking fighter is.

02:06:11.000 They used to have that attitude at some of the clubs in LA. That was one of the reasons why they had that big comic strike way back in the 70s.

02:06:18.000 Yeah.

02:06:19.000 It's because people felt like the comics were the ones who were providing the art form, but the clubs were the ones who were making all the money, and they were like, hey, you're at the improv, or you're at the comedy store.

02:06:28.000 You know, the pay scale at these clubs is the same as it was in the 80s, which is fucking horrible.

02:06:33.000 Like, I take people out on the road with me, and the clubs will pay 50 bucks for an MC for the weekend, and 100 bucks for the feature.

02:06:40.000 And I'm like, that's fucking, that's what it was.

02:06:43.000 I started in 89, and that's what it was back then.

02:06:45.000 That's crazy.

02:06:46.000 It's still like that.

02:06:47.000 And I'm like, that's terrible.

02:06:48.000 Like, How are these kids going to make a living?

02:06:51.000 Well, in a way, it's a lot like boxing.

02:06:53.000 Because when people think that boxers make millions of dollars because Floyd Mayweather would make $100 million in a fight, that is true.

02:06:58.000 But if you look at the undercard, there's guys that are fighting for chump change.

02:07:03.000 And they are going through a long camp.

02:07:05.000 Do you remember your first paycheck?

02:07:07.000 Yeah.

02:07:08.000 What was your first boxing paycheck?

02:07:09.000 $5,000.

02:07:11.000 Wow.

02:07:11.000 That's because I'm coming out of the Olympics, baby.

02:07:14.000 Yeah, that's true.

02:07:15.000 Olympic champion.

02:07:15.000 But even still, that's $5,000 for a fucking professional fight.

02:07:19.000 But you also had signed a million dollar deal.

02:07:22.000 Oh yeah, it's going to add up after a while.

02:07:25.000 Yeah.

02:07:25.000 I mean, you're an exception.

02:07:27.000 I mean, there's guys fighting out there for like 800 bucks, you know what I mean?

02:07:30.000 Yeah.

02:07:30.000 800. Try 500, 300. Yeah.

02:07:33.000 You know, another thing that disturbs me about MMA, as opposed to boxing, is the win-lose bonus.

02:07:40.000 I don't like that.

02:07:42.000 I think a fighter should get paid what they're supposed to get paid.

02:07:46.000 No one's trying to lose.

02:07:47.000 And if you're trying to lose, you're never going to be able to compete at the highest level anyway.

02:07:50.000 These guys are pouring their heart and soul.

02:07:53.000 They're giving their body.

02:07:54.000 They're literally sacrificing their health.

02:07:58.000 And they might get fucked out of a decision.

02:08:01.000 And because of that, they lose 50% of their money.

02:08:03.000 So some incompetent judge, which in boxing is everywhere.

02:08:08.000 Adelaide Bird.

02:08:09.000 How dare you?

02:08:11.000 There was even worse than her.

02:08:12.000 There's people that don't even do it anymore because they would be chased out of the game.

02:08:15.000 Every time I listen to the...

02:08:17.000 That's when you're a fan of the sport.

02:08:19.000 When you hear the judges' names go, fuck, not that guy.

02:08:21.000 Yeah.

02:08:22.000 There was a lot of them, man.

02:08:23.000 There was a lot of them.

02:08:24.000 I mean, but imagine if 50% of your purse goes away because someone doesn't know what the fuck they're doing.

02:08:29.000 So wait, the win-lose bonus, they're guaranteed a certain amount.

02:08:33.000 They're guaranteed a certain amount, but that's to show.

02:08:35.000 Like, say this.

02:08:35.000 Like, say maybe you would get 10 and 10. So you get $10,000 to fight and $10,000 more if you win.

02:08:42.000 Right.

02:08:43.000 But it's crazy.

02:08:44.000 It's oftentimes 50%.

02:08:46.000 And the idea is that you're going to give these fighters an incentive to put on a better show.

02:08:50.000 But I think...

02:08:52.000 And then fight of the night bonus?

02:08:54.000 I don't like when people fight any different than the way they're fighting when they're fighting the best and the smartest.

02:09:01.000 I think you should fight intelligently.

02:09:03.000 You shouldn't engage in a wild brawl because you want some performance bonus.

02:09:07.000 Because they'll give out performance of the night or knockout of the night.

02:09:11.000 Can you lose and still get the fight of the night bonus?

02:09:14.000 Yes, yes.

02:09:15.000 Cerrone's got a ton of those.

02:09:17.000 He's got a ton of bonuses.

02:09:18.000 But I mean, that's him though.

02:09:19.000 He would fight that way if you gave him a guarantee.

02:09:22.000 Oh yeah, Cerrone's a beast.

02:09:22.000 He's a perfect example.

02:09:23.000 If he knew he was going to make a half million dollars a fight, no matter what, he would fight exactly that way.

02:09:28.000 That's how he fights.

02:09:29.000 And I think that's how it should be.

02:09:32.000 He's an anomaly though because he grew up with money, didn't he?

02:09:35.000 He grew up with a decent lifestyle.

02:09:37.000 He wasn't terribly poor.

02:09:38.000 He wasn't wealthy.

02:09:40.000 I thought he had money.

02:09:41.000 I thought he could grow up with a decent amount of money.

02:09:43.000 That's the way I was sold it.

02:09:44.000 I don't believe so.

02:09:45.000 I don't want to speak out of school, though.

02:09:46.000 Me neither.

02:09:48.000 BJ Penn did.

02:09:50.000 BJ Penn is a legend.

02:09:51.000 BJ grew up with a wealthy family.

02:09:54.000 They're wealthy.

02:09:55.000 He just was a fighter.

02:09:56.000 Who is he fighting?

02:09:57.000 I just saw somewhere he's fighting.

02:09:59.000 He's going to fight Clay Guida.

02:10:00.000 Yes.

02:10:01.000 That's a fucking odd one.

02:10:02.000 I thought he retired.

02:10:03.000 He did.

02:10:04.000 He got bored.

02:10:06.000 He still wants to do it.

02:10:07.000 He actually looked very good in his last fight up until the time he got leg locked.

02:10:10.000 Clay Guida was a very exciting fighter back in the day.

02:10:12.000 He's still a wild man.

02:10:13.000 But he got leg-locked by Ryan Hall, who's just this phenomenal jiu-jitsu player.

02:10:18.000 And he caught him with a...

02:10:20.000 He did an Imanari roll and caught him at a leg-lock and just fucked his leg up.

02:10:27.000 Iminari roll.

02:10:28.000 Yeah.

02:10:29.000 It sounds like something you eat at a sushi place.

02:10:32.000 I think it was an Iminari roll.

02:10:35.000 Iminari is this very famous Japanese fighter who is a phenomenal leg lock artist.

02:10:40.000 And there's actually two moves.

02:10:43.000 There's an Iminari roll and there's an Iminari, which an Iminari comes from omoplata.

02:10:49.000 An omoplata is a shoulder lock.

02:10:51.000 I think it's a Portuguese word.

02:10:53.000 I think that's why they call it omoplata.

02:10:54.000 Yeah, I mean, it's from your leg too.

02:10:55.000 Yeah, it's a shoulder lock, and then the iminari is, while you're locked up in the omoplata, you grab a grip underneath the guy's chin and you yank him back.

02:11:04.000 It's a nasty...

02:11:05.000 I'll show you tomorrow.

02:11:06.000 I hope not.

02:11:07.000 I really hope not.

02:11:09.000 Can't we just have a friendly roll?

02:11:10.000 We can, but if you catch yourself in an omoplata, it's coming.

02:11:14.000 You know what's funny is when I'm a big fan of the in-arm choke, which I know is your favorite.

02:11:19.000 Head and arm?

02:11:20.000 Yeah.

02:11:23.000 And then Jack now calls it the Joe Hogan.

02:11:27.000 Someone would do it.

02:11:27.000 Get the Joe Hogan!

02:11:28.000 And that's your move.

02:11:30.000 It's now your move at the gym.

02:11:32.000 Well, you know, sometimes you have techniques that you hit so often that you just know when they're there, and you can close them up real quick.

02:11:40.000 That was always my shit.

02:11:42.000 That's what I've been...

02:11:43.000 Ever since then, I've actually been working on that.

02:11:45.000 Well, you know, so many guys did it to me, and it's such a suffocating feeling.

02:11:49.000 When someone's on top of you, and you've got your arm pinned here, and their arm's across your neck, and you're like...

02:11:54.000 It's such a horrible...

02:11:55.000 And you make that noise, funny enough, too.

02:11:57.000 Oh, it's a horrible way to get choked out.

02:11:59.000 Oh, the estima lock.

02:11:59.000 I like when guys get locks named after them.

02:12:02.000 How do you get out of it?

02:12:03.000 Well, you have to put your hand on your ear like you're answering the phone.

02:12:07.000 That's one.

02:12:08.000 The first thing is you're trying to create some space here so that you don't go to sleep.

02:12:13.000 You got to give in to the fact that this guy's choking this side of your neck for sure.

02:12:18.000 So the arm's coming under here and it's wrapping around here.

02:12:20.000 And if you just go like that and it's down or like that, it's going to get smushed.

02:12:26.000 You're getting smushed, right?

02:12:28.000 So you got to...

02:12:28.000 Bring this thing in here.

02:12:30.000 You're trying to create a little bit of space.

02:12:32.000 And then you hope this motherfucker gets tired of squeezing your neck.

02:12:35.000 And then you're trying to get in here and create a little bit of space.

02:12:39.000 That's all you're trying to do.

02:12:40.000 Just give me a little bit of space at a time.

02:12:41.000 Just a little bit of space.

02:12:44.000 Get a little bit of space.

02:12:46.000 It's all just a matter of little inches, little tiny micro movements.

02:12:50.000 But when someone has your arm wrapped up like that and they have that arm across your neck and they're crushing you with their body weight and then they get their knee on your solar plexus and flatten you out and squeeze down.

02:13:01.000 It's horrible.

02:13:03.000 Are there fighters in other countries that don't go in MMA but they're unbelievable fighters but they're not trying to show anybody that they're unbelievable fighters?

02:13:11.000 Oh, like kung fu guys?

02:13:12.000 Yeah.

02:13:13.000 No.

02:13:13.000 No, those guys all get fucked up and they try to.

02:13:16.000 They think they do it because you start believing it and you have your students and they believe you're the master.

02:13:22.000 There's that Shaolin guy who tried entering a bunch of...

02:13:25.000 There's a bunch of those videos.

02:13:26.000 And that guy who'd wear the orange Shaolin suit and he would win in like these really hokey fight contest.

02:13:31.000 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:13:31.000 And then he'd get into the big ones and he'd just get the shit beat out of them.

02:13:34.000 Yeah, he was kickboxing.

02:13:36.000 Yeah.

02:13:36.000 He actually had some skills.

02:13:39.000 I used to watch his shit on YouTube.

02:13:41.000 He could do a little bit, but what I'm talking about is these Chi Masters.

02:13:46.000 Those are the ones where you put Seems Real?

02:13:49.000 Those are so sad.

02:13:50.000 Yeah, McDojo.

02:13:55.000 What is the...

02:13:57.000 McDojo Life on Instagram has a shitload of those.

02:14:00.000 Yeah, those make me laugh.

02:14:01.000 They're so sad.

02:14:01.000 Oh, yeah, that's what you put.

02:14:02.000 You put seems legit.

02:14:03.000 Yeah, well, a lot of those guys, they'll go and fight a real fighter, and they think they actually know how to fight, and they just get concussed.

02:14:10.000 They just get smashed open, you know?

02:14:13.000 Because you know why?

02:14:14.000 Why?

02:14:14.000 Because they don't get hit.

02:14:15.000 Yeah, they don't get hit.

02:14:16.000 That's why I love boxing.

02:14:18.000 You know, boxing, you spar all the time.

02:14:20.000 You get hit all the time.

02:14:21.000 So, you know, in a real fight, Boxers have been hit.

02:14:25.000 You know, guys that do kung fu and all those things, they don't get hit.

02:14:28.000 So when they do get hit in a real fight, it's like it messes them up.

02:14:31.000 It's like, oh no, what do I do now?

02:14:32.000 Didn't see this coming.

02:14:33.000 Yeah, practical application.

02:14:35.000 The difference between practicing and, you know, thinking.

02:14:39.000 There's so many of these.

02:14:40.000 Oh, what is this guy doing?

02:14:41.000 I haven't seen this one.

02:14:42.000 Is this a new one?

02:14:44.000 That guy in the black gi looks like he's going to fuck this dude up.

02:14:48.000 That gi looks like the carpeting in my bedroom.

02:14:50.000 Oh my god.

02:14:59.000 I wonder why they're wearing such weird geese and everybody clapping.

02:15:04.000 They really believe that.

02:15:06.000 These silly fucks, they really believe that.

02:15:09.000 I bet that guy could get them to suck his dick the same way.

02:15:11.000 I know people who really believe that their teacher can do that stuff.

02:15:15.000 Suck it.

02:15:16.000 Suck it.

02:15:20.000 They're called priests.

02:15:22.000 How dare you?

02:15:25.000 It's weird that those people are still around in the day of video cameras that you can still have this.

02:15:31.000 But yeah, what you're saying is perfect.

02:15:32.000 Even what you were saying that if you hadn't fought in two years and then you would get in there and get hit, you're like, whoa, okay.

02:15:38.000 Let me see.

02:15:39.000 I've seen Keith Thurman do that.

02:15:41.000 Really?

02:15:41.000 Oh, in his last fight?

02:15:42.000 Yeah.

02:15:42.000 Yes, I saw that too.

02:15:44.000 And Lopez isn't a banger by any means.

02:15:46.000 He looked a little off, though.

02:15:49.000 But Keith Thurman had to suffer through that one little concussion.

02:15:53.000 Concuss, I should say.

02:15:55.000 And he was alright after that.

02:15:57.000 If you hit him with that same shot, he would have took it even better.

02:16:00.000 Because he got over the hump.

02:16:02.000 I still gave that fight to Lopez, though.

02:16:04.000 A lot of people did.

02:16:06.000 Yeah, it was a close fight, for sure.

02:16:08.000 It was a close fight, yeah.

02:16:08.000 And, you know, it was Thurman's big comeback fight.

02:16:11.000 I mean, how long had he been out?

02:16:12.000 Two years, at least.

02:16:13.000 Was he injured?

02:16:14.000 He was injured.

02:16:14.000 He had some sort of shoulder, elbow.

02:16:17.000 Yeah.

02:16:20.000 But that's also one of the things that makes it so interesting.

02:16:23.000 And when a guy does come back from a devastating loss, and you go, okay, like Manny Pacquiao, when Marquez knocked him out.

02:16:33.000 Out.

02:16:34.000 I mean, crazy.

02:16:36.000 That was a bad one.

02:16:37.000 That was a bad one.

02:16:39.000 That's going to cause some slurring later.

02:16:41.000 Maybe.

02:16:41.000 It's like, you know, you make a move, it's a good move, but then you've moved into the man's power punch, and he hits you, and, you know, there's no second chance with that one.

02:16:51.000 Yeah, and Marquez, I mean, he's an interesting case.

02:16:58.000 You know, I mean, he's a...

02:17:01.000 Obviously a very, very talented fighter, but as he got older, he got like physically stronger.

02:17:05.000 He got bigger and stronger, you know.

02:17:08.000 Mexican supplements.

02:17:09.000 Mexican meat.

02:17:10.000 A lot involved.

02:17:11.000 Climbuterol meat.

02:17:12.000 Monkey juice.

02:17:13.000 There was a lot involved there, right?

02:17:15.000 I mean, and he actually was working with Manny Pacquiao's old strength and conditioning guy, and Manny was the guy who was always accused of doing stuff.

02:17:23.000 Oh, you're talking about Alex Arisa?

02:17:24.000 Yeah.

02:17:24.000 I mean, Manny went up eight weight classes.

02:17:25.000 I had Alex Arisa train me before.

02:17:27.000 Yeah?

02:17:27.000 When I was doing my special three years ago.

02:17:30.000 Look at him.

02:17:31.000 Jacked.

02:17:32.000 Is he still fighting?

02:17:34.000 No, he's retired.

02:17:34.000 Marquez is done?

02:17:35.000 Yeah.

02:17:36.000 Good for him.

02:17:36.000 They're talking about Floyd.

02:17:38.000 They're talking about doing a Floyd Pacquiao rematch.

02:17:41.000 I'm not really excited about that.

02:17:43.000 You know what I'm excited about?

02:17:44.000 I want to see how much money Floyd Mayweather can make.

02:17:46.000 I'm excited.

02:17:48.000 I mean, look, the fact that he talked everybody into that Conor McGregor fight, and he made more than $100 million for that fight.

02:17:54.000 Wait, isn't that tension kid fighting again?

02:17:56.000 He's fighting somebody else now.

02:17:57.000 Nazukawa?

02:17:58.000 Yeah.

02:17:58.000 He's a badass kid boxer.

02:17:59.000 Yeah, but he's supposed to be fighting another...

02:18:01.000 Another boxer?

02:18:02.000 Yeah.

02:18:03.000 Oh.

02:18:03.000 I think you're right.

02:18:04.000 Probably a lesser one, but you know.

02:18:06.000 Well, tension is 126 pounds.

02:18:09.000 Yeah, so he should fight somebody that size.

02:18:11.000 I mean, the fact that he fought Mayweather at all, and people were like, oh, it looks like it was a fake fight.

02:18:15.000 No, that's what it looks like when a 126-pound fighter fights one of the best boxers of all time.

02:18:21.000 That's what it looks like.

02:18:22.000 That doesn't look fake.

02:18:23.000 He did fall very dramatically.

02:18:25.000 Because he got his fucking brain rattled, you know?

02:18:30.000 Oh, is it Gervonta Davis?

02:18:32.000 Oh my god.

02:18:33.000 But Gervonta can't make that weight anymore either.

02:18:35.000 Gervonta can't even make the weight he's at now.

02:18:36.000 But they don't have him make weight.

02:18:38.000 That's the thing.

02:18:39.000 They just have him fight.

02:18:41.000 I mean, Floyd didn't make any fucking weight.

02:18:43.000 Did he?

02:18:44.000 What did he make?

02:18:44.000 Do you like the way 1FC is doing their weight thing?

02:18:46.000 Yes.

02:18:47.000 That's pretty cool.

02:18:48.000 I like it a lot.

02:18:48.000 Yeah, for people who don't know, they don't let them cut weight.

02:18:51.000 They do hydration tests, so there's no dehydrating yourself.

02:18:56.000 So if you weigh naturally, you walk around 185 pounds, you're going to fight at 185 pounds.

02:19:01.000 You're not going to fight at 170 or 165 like a lot of these guys do.

02:19:04.000 That's good.

02:19:05.000 Yeah, I'd love it.

02:19:06.000 Yeah, that's good because the hydration aspect of, even in any sport, taking that liquid away from the brain, your body needs liquid.

02:19:16.000 It survives on liquid.

02:19:18.000 And it makes your bones brittle.

02:19:19.000 It's terrible for you in every way.

02:19:22.000 It's terrible for your performance, your internal organs.

02:19:24.000 A lot of guys have kidney failure when they're cutting weight for weigh-ins.

02:19:27.000 That's the beautiful thing about you being a heavyweight, right?

02:19:29.000 Yeah.

02:19:30.000 Man, I didn't have to take off my clothes.

02:19:32.000 I can weigh whatever.

02:19:33.000 But there was always that fighting weight where I would be perfect at.

02:19:37.000 Manny was good at that.

02:19:38.000 Yeah.

02:19:38.000 How much do you weigh?

02:19:39.000 Okay, don't move from there.

02:19:41.000 What, about 240?

02:19:43.000 No, 235. 235 was perfect.

02:19:46.000 Knew you were on.

02:19:47.000 Yep.

02:19:48.000 Yeah.

02:19:49.000 Now, what kind of nutrition did you follow when you were fighting?

02:19:52.000 Did you take specific vitamins or did you drink specific things?

02:19:56.000 Yeah.

02:19:57.000 No, just Jamaican food.

02:20:00.000 Jamaican food.

02:20:01.000 Yeah.

02:20:02.000 Angelo Dundee asked me that same question.

02:20:04.000 Yeah.

02:20:04.000 I said, what do you eat?

02:20:05.000 I said, my mother's food.

02:20:07.000 He said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

02:20:13.000 That's a perfect Angelo Dundee quote.

02:20:15.000 Yeah.

02:20:16.000 Yeah, he's another one, man.

02:20:17.000 Remember that with Sugary Leonard against Thomas Hearns?

02:20:20.000 You're blowing it, kid!

02:20:22.000 Yeah.

02:20:22.000 And he gets, Sugary Leonard gets fired up and he goes out and stops him the next round.

02:20:26.000 There was a lot of good trainers back then.

02:20:27.000 Eddie Futch, Georgie Benton.

02:20:29.000 Yeah, Georgie Benton, yeah.

02:20:31.000 Bless his soul.

02:20:32.000 Good trainer as well.

02:20:33.000 It's so important for a young fighter to get hooked up with the right trainer.

02:20:36.000 Right.

02:20:37.000 You know, we got on that for a second.

02:20:39.000 I think part of the problem with a lot of the young kids right now, they need to get good trainers.

02:20:44.000 Good trainers really help your game because it even helps you with the TV. Because I was saying today that when a man you...

02:20:54.000 I came into my corner.

02:20:56.000 HBO started talking about me better.

02:20:58.000 Before that, it was like, oh, he doesn't throw the jab enough.

02:21:00.000 He looks like he's tired.

02:21:02.000 The fight when I went with Manny, they were like praising me.

02:21:05.000 Oh, he's doing good now.

02:21:07.000 Manny's behind him now.

02:21:08.000 He's a trainer of champions.

02:21:10.000 So trainer really helps your game.

02:21:13.000 Were you with Manny when you fought Mercer?

02:21:15.000 Yes.

02:21:16.000 That was a war.

02:21:17.000 Yeah.

02:21:18.000 That was a war.

02:21:18.000 Actually, no, I wasn't.

02:21:20.000 I wasn't.

02:21:21.000 That Mercer fight, I actually taught.

02:21:23.000 Mercer helped me out because before that fight, I was always fighting guys that hooked around.

02:21:30.000 Body shots and hooks.

02:21:31.000 So I kept my hands like this at the side of my face.

02:21:34.000 And then I went into that fight.

02:21:37.000 Got a fat lip.

02:21:38.000 I hate getting fat lips in my fights.

02:21:41.000 It's like, you know, hey, did you win the fight?

02:21:44.000 Yeah.

02:21:45.000 It didn't look like you.

02:21:46.000 You got a fat lip from, you know?

02:21:48.000 So I kept on walking around with a fat lip, and then...

02:21:51.000 I got a good picture of you, me, and Lloyd, and you got a fat lip.

02:21:56.000 It's right after one of your fights from, like, 97. And then Manny said, you know what you're doing wrong?

02:22:01.000 He said, you need to put your hand in front of your mouth.

02:22:05.000 I'm like, okay.

02:22:06.000 So even if a guy throws a punch which doesn't slide through, it's going to hit your hand.

02:22:12.000 And he said, you can move your hand two inches to protect yourself from a hook, can't you?

02:22:17.000 And I said, yeah.

02:22:18.000 Oh, okay, you're right.

02:22:20.000 After that fight, no more fat lips.

02:22:24.000 But I used to hate getting fat lips, boy.

02:22:27.000 Can everybody look at you funny?

02:22:28.000 That's hilarious.

02:22:29.000 Yeah.

02:22:30.000 Well, but having a great trainer is so important in MMA as well.

02:22:34.000 I mean, and there's not that many of them.

02:22:35.000 It's like you really have to find the right ones.

02:22:37.000 A lot of good trainers are just former fighters now, right?

02:22:39.000 Well, there's that, yeah.

02:22:40.000 But, you know, someone has to be a real...

02:22:43.000 They can't just be a trainer, or just be a former fighter, rather.

02:22:46.000 You have to be a student to really understand the game.

02:22:49.000 Like, Emmanuel was only an amateur fighter, right?

02:22:52.000 He never fought professional, and he was one of the greatest of all time, unquestionably.

02:22:56.000 Like, everybody respected him.

02:22:57.000 And so soft-spoken, you know, but just knew.

02:23:00.000 Just knew how to raise fighters.

02:23:02.000 And you think about all the guys, Gerald McClellan, Tommy Hearns, all the great fighters that came out of that camp.

02:23:06.000 The only problem I have with, you know, old-time fighters is like, you know, some old-time fighters were bad fighters.

02:23:13.000 Now they're training a young kid the same way, and it's not positive.

02:23:18.000 It's like you're teaching them the bad tricks.

02:23:20.000 Yeah.

02:23:21.000 But then there's guys who are better as trainers than they were as fighters, like Freddie Roach.

02:23:25.000 100%, yeah.

02:23:26.000 Like, Freddie Roach is recognized as one of the greatest trainers for sure alive, but as a fighter, he was a journeyman.

02:23:31.000 Kevin Rooney was a good trainer in his day.

02:23:32.000 Yeah, yeah.

02:23:33.000 And he got knocked up by Urquayo in the second round.

02:23:35.000 Well, he was a good trainer with Tyson, but he never really developed talent outside of Tyson.

02:23:39.000 I think he developed a lot of alcohol, that's what.

02:23:40.000 Oh, that's what.

02:23:41.000 You know, hanging around with Mike, and he's got tigers on a leash.

02:23:45.000 And then Buddy had a good run for a minute, Buddy McGirt.

02:23:47.000 He's still training fighters.

02:23:48.000 Yeah, I've trained with Buddy before.

02:23:49.000 Did you?

02:23:50.000 Oh, good.

02:23:50.000 Yeah.

02:23:50.000 He was a great fighter.

02:23:52.000 Buddy was a great fighter.

02:23:53.000 Yeah.

02:23:53.000 Great dude.

02:23:54.000 Yo, you haven't trained with me yet.

02:23:56.000 Wasn't afraid of me, guy.

02:23:59.000 Listen, man, your phone keeps blowing up and you were supposed to be out here an hour ago, but I appreciate your time, man.

02:24:04.000 Thank you.

02:24:04.000 It was an honor to sit here and talk to you.

02:24:05.000 Thanks for having me.

02:24:06.000 One of my favorites of all time.

02:24:08.000 Appreciate it.

02:24:08.000 Russell, I like you too.

02:24:10.000 Thanks, man.

02:24:11.000 You're my favorite guy to get choked out by.

02:24:13.000 Oh, sweetie.

02:24:14.000 We're going to have some fun tomorrow.

02:24:15.000 Oh, Jesus.

02:24:15.000 Lennox Lewis, ladies and gentlemen.

02:24:17.000 Thank you, everybody.

02:24:21.000 That was great.

The Joe Rogan Experience - March 07, 2019

Joe Rogan Experience #1260 - Lennox Lewis & Russell Peters

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