Comedian Jim Gaffigan joins Jemele to discuss his new Amazon Prime special, Beyond the Pale, and why he thinks Amazon is a good fit for his new comedy special. Plus, the guys talk about how they feel about the current state of Netflix and Amazon Prime and why they think they should get behind the comedy special that's coming out this Friday. Also, the boys talk about what it's like being a comedian in New York City and why it's a good idea to have your own personal assistant on the job. And, of course, there's a little bit of Spongebob thrown in for good measure. Enjoy the episode and tweet me if you liked it! with and to let us know what you thought of it and what you think of it in the comments section below! Timestamps: 1:00:00 - What's your favorite thing about Amazon Prime? 2:30 - What are you looking forward to in your next comedy special? 3:15 - What s your favorite streaming platform? 4:00 5:20 - How do you feel about Netflix? 6:40 - What do you think about Amazon's new comedy specials? 7:20 8:00 -- What would you like to see me do in the future? 9:30 -- What are your thoughts on Amazon's support? 10:15 -- How does it feel like? 11:40 -- Is it a good or bad? 12:00 | What is your favorite place to watch comedy? 13:00 Is there a good place to work? 14:30 | How do I feel about it? 15:40 | What do I think I would like to go to? 16:10 | What are my favorite thing? 17:30 15, what would you want to do in a pool? 18:00 // 15:30 // 16:40 19:00 & 17:10 21:00 +16:20 | What's the biggest thing I would you think I m going to do next? 22:40 // 17: What are we looking for in my next project? 23:30 & 16: What s the best thing I m working on in the next episode? 26:30 Is there something you d like to hear from someone else doing something new in my life right now?
00:00:12.000I think it's important that there's a bunch of other platforms for all of us to do specials on.
00:00:18.000And when a guy like you goes over to Amazon, legitimizes it, makes it a big deal, it's exciting.
00:00:23.000Yeah, it's fascinating how the outlets for specials has changed so dramatically.
00:00:30.000Because when we were kids, it was just HBO. And then Comedy Central, when I released Beyond the Pale, it was that perfect moment where in every dorm room in America,
00:00:58.000It's like the Netflix was big, and we see these other platforms coming out.
00:01:03.000So it'll be interesting, if I can convince people, because everyone...
00:01:09.000It goes to Amazon, or someone in their family does.
00:01:12.000So if I can convince them the next time they're buying paper towels and socks to just go over to Prime, because everyone has a Prime membership.
00:01:22.000That's the weird part about it, right?
00:01:23.000It's like it's shopping, but it's also like the same as iTunes.
00:01:28.000Yeah, people have asked me, they're like, what if...
00:01:31.000You know, one person asked me, they're like, what if someone doesn't have a Prime membership?
00:01:35.000And I'm like, then they're probably not on the internet.
00:04:02.000You know, some of how it was explained to me was I released Nobilate, my special before this, independently, you know, through a lot of different platforms.
00:06:09.000We did this kind of like everywhere but Netflix, and then there was a second window that was on Amazon Prime, and it got a lot of viewers, and so that prompted Amazon to approach for this special.
00:06:29.000So, independently, when you released your last one, did a production company come to you and say, hey, Jim, this is what we wanted?
00:07:58.000I mean, I really do enjoy that Netflix has gotten so big into stand-up specials because they've given so many people opportunities and exposed the world to so many great comics.
00:08:07.000I don't like the fact they don't give you the numbers.
00:11:05.000It was on the CW. Oh, that's hilarious.
00:11:07.000I feel like in my adult lifetime, the CW appeared, and I still have never watched the show on the CW. Have you ever watched the show on the CW? I don't believe so.
00:12:05.000Well, I remember when people used to think that being on one of those networks wouldn't do you any good, one of those little small networks.
00:12:13.000But then TruTV put on Impractical Jokers, and those guys are selling out arenas.
00:15:25.000Because also, generally when there are articles written about comedians, there's always like, all right, let's see what this half day of research...
00:15:40.000I remember in the 90s, New York Magazine would be like, the end of stand-up comedy.
00:15:47.000And you'd read the article and you're like, well, I guess, oh, they followed that person.
00:15:50.000They don't even really even do stand-up.
00:17:22.000My other theory is that in the collapse of traditional media, meaning the collapse of newspapers and television news bureaus, that because there's no money to pay Yeah,
00:18:24.000And I think if you're going to really study something, like if you want to know about a person, you know, say if it's a politician or, you know, an actor or comic or whoever you're writing about, the idea that you're going to figure them out with just a few hours of Google searching is kind of crazy.
00:19:24.000It's set in the 90s and You know, the reviews that didn't like the movie, that didn't surprise me, you know, or the criticisms.
00:19:33.000But like a lot of the reviews were kind of – there was a tone of like, how dare this white male have two – like they couldn't get beyond – Like,
00:20:38.000Well, they feel like there's an obligation to discuss that now, too.
00:20:42.000If they feel like there's some sort of an imbalance sexually, like between genders on a television show, or intersectionality, if it has something to do with race or gender or politics, they feel like this is something that must be discussed.
00:20:55.000And one of the things that I hear from friends that are very frustrated is that when they pitch shows, when they pitch shows to the network, if they have a story, an idea, like this is the thing, they're like, okay, where's the diversity?
00:21:38.000I just can't wait until we're done with all this.
00:21:40.000Maybe it'll be long after we're done, long after we're dead.
00:21:44.000But when there's no more racism, and this is no longer a viable storyline, and no one gives a fuck if you're Chinese or Indian or from Pakistan, we legitimately don't care.
00:21:55.000They're just different varieties of people, and there's no judgment whatsoever.
00:21:59.000Until then, we just have to deal with these absurd people that peddle in this narrative that you have to have X amount of – like, I was reading something where someone was saying that I should run for – I should moderate the presidential debates.
00:24:17.000But on the other hand, one way to look at it is the idea that there can be no darkness without light, right?
00:24:23.000There can be no real appreciation of true diversity without an understanding of racism.
00:24:31.000Like, to have it around in its ugliest form makes you appreciate the people that don't express that, that aren't racist, that are just even-keeled people that appreciate everybody.
00:24:42.000Well, you know, there's also this, too, is that...
00:27:13.000Um, and, uh, yeah, you know, it's, you know, they don't have a yard.
00:27:18.000But, like, I'm kind of like, I don't know, it seems like people that have yards, they're like paranoid about their kids getting snatched anyway.
00:27:26.000So, uh, But, I don't know, it's what, I also, you know, I feel like there's a lot of convenience in New York that I like.
00:27:34.000And I also, to be perfectly honest, it's like, in LA, I feel like, I feel kind of smothered by the entertainment industry.
00:27:43.000And maybe it's my insecurity, but it's like, there's like, you drive down the street, there's all these billboards, and each of those billboards is saying, you're a failure!
00:28:05.000I mean, obviously, just fate had it where I stayed in New York, because there's plenty of reasons to live in LA. Well, first and foremost, you're a comic.
00:28:12.000You're always recognized as a comic, but you do a lot of other things as well.
00:28:16.000But being in New York City, I think in some ways you get the best of both worlds.
00:29:05.000I don't work at the cellar in New York City, and some of that goes back history.
00:29:10.000But some of it is, I just want stage time, and I can eat dinner with my kids, put some of them to bed, and decide to do a spot, go do the spot, come back, and wrangle my two other kids to get to sleep.
00:30:30.000You know, it goes back like 20 years ago.
00:30:32.000I'm a low-energy kind of comedian, and I used to put in avails at the cellar, and it would kind of determine I would get a spot Wednesday at 1am.
00:30:46.000And so I would be bummed for the week.
00:30:59.000And look, I love the cellar, but I feel like that's also the layout of the room is far more interactive, whereas I want to try out material.
00:36:02.000I think the format of waiting for commercials and the audience being right there and playing to the audience, it's not an effective way to have a conversation.
00:36:10.000It's definitely not an effective way to express ideas that are complicated.
00:36:15.000You want to be able to air them out in a long-form way.
00:36:54.000I see him on these shows and he seems like this fucking cartoonish character.
00:36:57.000But now you see him here in this long form conversation where there's no interruptions at all.
00:37:02.000He just has a chance to think and talk and express himself and you go, oh, now I know the real Bernie because I never knew him in these goddamn debates when he's screaming for 12 seconds about healthcare or about taxes or about whatever it is.
00:39:09.000It's like, but we were talking about this outside.
00:39:11.000I'm like, there are times when I've been more in shape than others, but I feel like at this point, I'm like, you know, maybe I'll just go all in and fat guy.
00:39:18.000I might just be like, you know what, I'm just going to go all in, you know, like, you know, I'll just, you know, I'll take the place of Panette, you know, I'll just do that.
00:40:48.000I would like to know how you feel about this, but I feel like the amount of time that you spend concentrating on your material has a direct result in how good it is and how good it gets quick, especially when you're producing specials, so you abandon all your material and then you have to write new stuff.
00:41:02.000For me, the process is greatly accelerated by physically writing.
00:41:07.000I devote a lot of time to sit in front of a computer, staring at it, smoking pot, writing things out, looking at notes, writing things out.
00:41:14.000Performing, those are critical, but also listening.
00:41:17.000Listening to those recordings and then writing notes on the recordings.
00:42:55.000The curriculum nights alone are going to be insane.
00:42:59.000And there's going to be, you know, my daughter's in soccer, and there's going to be all these meetings, and there's just innumerable things.
00:43:18.000But, like, doing the hour, I don't really usually do it in New York.
00:43:25.000I like to do, I don't know what they're called now, but alt shows in Brooklyn, which is, it'll kind of like, I'll do material that would work in a comedy club, but like in Brooklyn in front of like a more,
00:44:22.000Like, a great example is I used to have, back when USA—I'm sure USA Today is still there, but I used to have all this material that I developed in— In Brooklyn, about the USA Today, how it's just like a coloring book.
00:45:11.000I mean, I love the fact even, you know, how, you know, doing, talking about, you know, I make a point of not doing too much material on having five kids, but, like, I'll do, like, if I talk about having five kids in New York City,
00:45:29.000At a show in New York City, people are like, you're crazy.
00:45:33.000And then if I talk about having five kids in Boston, and I'm generalizing, people in Boston might be like, you're crazy, I came from one of those families.
00:45:43.000And if I do it in Utah, people would be like, yeah, we are crazy for having five kids.
00:45:48.000So it is the same joke, and it's the same point of view, but it's tweaked a little bit.
00:45:53.000And it's so fun kind of traveling around and learning that material and learning the impact and how it's digested.
00:46:01.000Well, comics have a unique perspective on America because of that.
00:46:05.000Because we don't just go to these different places, but we also perform material in all these different places.
00:46:10.000So I think, like, I've been talking a lot with comics lately about, like, what was your reaction to Trump winning the election?
00:46:18.000Comics saw it coming more than most people who live in LA. Because most people who live in LA are very liberal, very left-wing, convinced that this is...
00:46:28.000It didn't matter who you voted for, Hillary was going to win California no matter what.
00:47:39.000And that same material, and it wasn't just the context of the post-election, it was, I describe it as people looking at the ceiling, is that people didn't want to hear it.
00:47:53.000And I think some of it is people are like, we deal with this all day.
00:48:52.000If you really stop and think about it, if you're alive for 75, 85 years on this planet, and most of your waking time interacting with people is discussing politics, how much of it actually does affect your life other than those conversations?
00:49:05.000Those conversations It's a giant part of a lot of people's anxiety, a giant part of the argument.
00:49:12.000But the real life, like getting up in the morning, fixing breakfast for your kids, taking them to school.
00:49:17.000How much does fucking Trump play a part in any of that?
00:50:07.000Like human beings, like we, you know, and we were going around this Tarazin, this place outside of Prague where they stuck all the Jewish people.
00:50:18.000And with my children, and my children who just want to play on iPads, were just mesmerized.
00:50:26.000And the takeaway was not, oh, the Germans are bad and Nazis are bad.
00:50:32.000The takeaway is, oh, humans are crazy.
00:50:36.000Like, it's just a matter of months that these same people that were your neighbors that you would go to their kids' birthday parties, you were waving goodbye to because you got their apartment.
00:51:15.000It's filled with little holes and shit.
00:51:17.000There's apparently places in Europe where you can find thousands of those things just scattered out there.
00:51:23.000You know, there's areas in France that are...
00:51:27.000Impossible for people to go to, because there's so many rounds that have been shot into the ground there, and so much toxic chemicals and stuff from World War II, that to this day, they don't want people traveling to.
00:51:40.000I mean, it's an enormous size, the size of Paris.
00:51:49.000So when I was in Prague, and you go on these tours, and The punishment, like they would just be like, and I also learned this in Greece, they'd be like, okay, so as punishment, we are going to murder an entire village.
00:53:44.000Like, even the, you know, like, Serbia, I was in Dubrovnik, and they're like, yeah, up there the Montenegrins used to shoot at us, all those guys, you know, now we go to their bar.
00:54:31.000And this is right now in 2019. If you were unfortunate enough to be born in Libya, you are stuck there right now and you're living in hell.
00:54:39.000You're not living in Manhattan in 2019 where it's wonderful.
00:54:42.000Jim Gaffigan can hop on over to Gotham and say hi to Jerry Seinfeld, do a set and have a meatball sub and do whatever the fuck you want.
00:54:50.000No, you're living in a chaos-filled environment where barbarians are running the show.
00:54:59.000And this is one of the reasons why our democracy is so important.
00:55:01.000It's one of the reasons why compassion is so important and kindness and talking to people.
00:55:05.000And it's also important to look at things objectively and label things based on compassion and looking at things in an intelligent, non-biased way.
00:55:15.000So you can really get a sense of what the landscape really is.
00:55:18.000If you're, you know, everybody's a fucking Nazi and everybody's terrible and white privilege this, white privilege that.
00:55:28.000There's real terror and real awful things.
00:55:30.000We have more unity and we have more in common than we promote.
00:55:34.000You know what I think is, and I think this is also a reflection of the success of comedians' podcasts, is that what people don't realize is that comedians...
00:55:46.000Really appreciate a different point of view.
00:55:49.000We actually, like, we have friends that, like, we don't agree with.
00:55:53.000In fact, we almost find it entertaining.
00:55:56.000Like, let's talk to this friend, because I know I disagree with him.
00:56:02.000And I think that, particularly in this cancel culture, there is...
00:56:08.000And so, like, you get these comedians...
00:56:10.000Like you, hosting these podcasts, having these discussions, and comedians have kind of like the boldness to step in it and say, hey, I don't know about that.
00:56:37.000Whereas, and by the way, it's just interesting because I think, you know, I have a friend, Tom Shalhou, who I love, who has a show on Fox Nation.
00:56:52.000And it is weird because like six years ago, and I did this interview and I talked about it, and I could see the interviewer go, you're friends with someone that works at Fox?
00:58:47.000You know, here's another thing that I find very frustrating.
00:58:52.000I feel as though I'm – and sometimes I'll get messages on social media, and they'll be like, you know that some of the people that like your comedy are Trump supporters.
01:00:28.000It's almost kind of a – and I don't know if I've talked about this, but there's this cultural revolution that is occurring that is – it's well-intended, but it's almost puritanical.
01:00:45.000And by the way, I'm not somebody – I'm against any form of censorship, but I'm also somebody that believes that if we can articulate transgender terms that make people that are transgender feel comfortable, there's nothing wrong with that.
01:03:55.000They were doing what's called a canned hunt, where they open up these gates, and they let these birds fly out, and they just start blasting them.
01:04:12.000So he was the CEO of Halliburton, he leaves Halliburton, and then he becomes the vice president, and then he gives Halliburton these no-bid contracts to rebuild Iraq after they blew it up.
01:09:12.000And also, when you have these farms, there are farms that raise deer and some other animals.
01:09:17.000There's a real problem with chronic wasting disease and certain diseases that get easily spread when all these animals are eating off of the same food source.
01:09:25.000So if they have like a bin where they're all eating out of and they share saliva, it actually contributes to the contamination of certain diseases.
01:09:33.000And there's a real problem in this country with something called CWD. Which is chronic wasting disease.
01:14:03.000Comedy is an extremely difficult pursuit.
01:14:06.000The idea of taking an idea, crafting it, and then distributing it, performing it in front of people who paid money to hear you talk, when they can talk too.
01:14:39.000You know, people talk, and my tickets are not high or anything, but I think people care more about their time than they do about the money.
01:14:48.000It's like, because if you're a parent, you're like, this is my one night.
01:16:39.000Well, you can pick up some kinds of hunting.
01:16:42.000You could pick up rifle hunting for certain animals.
01:16:46.000All you'd have to do is understand how to keep your breath under control, how to not flinch when you pull a trigger, how to aim, how to use a weapon properly, and have someone who puts you in a good position where you have a guide maybe that helps bring you along.
01:17:01.000Bow hunting is another level of commitment.
01:17:07.000You're most likely going to have to be in really good shape because you're going to have to go into the mountains, and just the altitude alone, and then climbing up hills.
01:17:15.000You're going up and down several thousand feet of elevation in a day, and it's exhausting.
01:17:26.000I think, because sometimes I'll look at...
01:17:29.000The community of comedians, which I truly enjoy, and you obviously do too, it's like you'll sometimes run into other communities, because there is this solitary nature to it,
01:17:46.000and then there's this shared obsession.
01:17:51.000Or people that, you know, just even cooks that really get true enjoyment out of it, have that shared kind of, you know, like the prep time, the kind of, you're doing it for yourself.
01:18:05.000Like, you know, a chef will come to the table and say, do you like your meal?
01:18:08.000But they don't need someone to approve it.
01:19:12.000I mean, how many people are really making a living off of just doing stand-up?
01:19:16.000I mean, I would venture there might be about 250. Which is amazing, because by the way, when I started, and you're around the same period, there was like nobody.
01:19:30.000And by the way, in Seinfeld's era, there was even less nobody.
01:20:13.000There's a moment, you know, like sometimes singers, songwriters talk about this, that like a song just appears.
01:20:20.000And some of it is we put in the time and we put in the work on ourselves and kind of like self-reflection and we're open to understanding who our point of view is and we're embracing our embarrassment that kind of opens us to material.
01:21:11.000But I think that's the case with virtually everything, that we all need perspective, and you need discipline, and you need the work ethic to put all the time in and do all the work.
01:21:24.000But you also need to think clearly, and you need enthusiasm.
01:21:28.000And sometimes that, like, it's intelligent and it's disciplined to take a break.
01:21:40.000I'm somebody—like, I always arrive in a market with an hour of new material, but—and I have—there's plenty of people that they do a special, and then they take a break, and they hang out, and they might kind of slowly develop more material.
01:21:57.000And to me, that is— I don't know if that's...
01:26:49.000And they never figure their way through.
01:26:52.000And there is also something about, I have a big belief that comedy changes, just as we were talking about, you know, there's a difference between political correctness and like there is a cultural trend that's almost kind of looking for someone making a mistake.
01:27:10.000That it's shifted every—I call it decades.
01:27:15.000So, like, there is a—in the 80s, you know, at the peak of kind of Seinfeld's stand-up, which transformed into his show— We're good to go.
01:27:47.000You know, I struggle with whether I'm a good dad or not.
01:27:51.000But in this day and age, we're such an exhibitionist and voyeuristic culture that there is a requirement of that, where I think that...
01:28:03.000When I watch stand-up, and by the way, I also believe that when people go, oh, my stories, everything's true, that's true.
01:30:17.000You know, that's in so-and-so special.
01:30:20.000That's in, you know, every comedian that comes from a certain area does these jokes.
01:30:25.000And it was, like, he was really revolutionary on so many different levels.
01:30:32.000Forget the true gift of, like, being funny and autobiographical and kind of vulnerable.
01:30:39.000Like, people don't realize that When he did that show in Long Beach, and he opened for Patti LaBelle, and people were coming in at the beginning, it's like, that's absurd!
01:31:20.000Chappelle has like, just, you know, I don't know, it's like, almost like a level of genius where he's almost kind of like, I'm gonna set up a hurdle for myself.
01:31:32.000Well, Chappelle's also constantly working, man.
01:31:36.000Like, he just popped into the belly room two nights ago, just showed up, does a set in the belly room, does a set in the main room, goes over to the improv, constantly hopping around, you know?
01:31:47.000I've told this story before, but it's a crazy one.
01:32:02.000He decided to come by, meaning he flew into Denver on a private jet with no show set up because he knew that I was going to be there and wanted to do a set.
01:33:25.000I don't even have my stuff here, but I'm always putting stuff down.
01:33:29.000But, like, I... You know, some of it's bits and nubs.
01:33:33.000You know, like, these are notes from, like, Ireland.
01:33:37.000I mean, I love being in other cultures, because I... Not only do you see the eccentric side of their culture, but it also exposes how absurd our culture is.
01:35:18.000It's a county in the northwestern part of the Republic that should be part of Northern Ireland, but it was so Catholic that the British were like, you guys can keep that one.
01:35:29.000It's way up there, and it's kind of...
01:36:47.000Like there's something really interesting as an American that, you know, we have this cute notion of like, I'm Irish, I drink too much.
01:36:56.000Whereas like the Irish and the English and the Scottish and the Welsh, there is something that It kind of comes out at 11 o'clock at night.
01:38:45.000We don't know a fucking goddamn thing about their people.
01:38:49.000Some of it is, and by the way, people were kind of, how do you know this?
01:38:52.000And some of it, but I bring that up because there was, behind it was this tribalism, kind of like this And obviously the Irish are very different than the English, but there was something about this that was...
01:39:08.000You see it a little bit with Southerners that are kind of like, we're going to give you hell kind of thing.
01:39:19.000And you see it in England all the time.
01:39:21.000Like 11 o'clock, you're like, what happened to Hugh Grant?
01:41:18.000I love kind of justifying, you know, every actor wants to play someone flawed, but I love playing these people that you don't have any sense of doubt why you're doing something in a scene.
01:41:30.000Like, you're like, this is all I can do.
01:41:31.000And afterwards, I love the moment when you're at craft service and there's somebody that looks at you like the character, they're like, huh.
01:41:39.000You know, I mean, I usually, I used to play a lot of nerds, so people would be like dismissive of me and I annoyed that.
01:41:45.000I'm like, look, I'm not the character.
01:41:47.000But I love it when I'm playing someone who's kind of doing something maniacal and people are like, why would you do that?
01:41:53.000Like, I'm just playing a guy that would kidnap somebody.