On this episode of the podcast, I sit down with Tulsi Gabbard to discuss her campaign for the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination. We talk about why Tulsi is running for president, how she got started in her campaign, and what it's like being a woman running for President of the United States. I also talk about how she feels about being attacked by the media and how she deals with it, and why she thinks it s important to have a woman on the ticket who's a combat veteran and a woman who's running for the White House. I hope you enjoy this episode and that it gives you some insight into who Tulsi really is, what she's all about, and how important it is to have someone like her on the campaign trail. Thank you so much to Tulsi for being on the show, and thank you to J.J. Cole for being a part of this journey with me and my team. I can't wait to do it again next week. Thank you also to my good friend and good friend, Amy Poehler. She's a force to be reckoned with in the Democratic primary field, and I know she's going to do her best to make 2020 the best possible possible for her campaign. I'm looking forward to working with her to make a difference in November 2020! Thanks Amy, Amy, I appreciate you, Amy and I appreciate your support, Amy! - Thank you Amy, thank you, Thank you for being here. - Tom, Tom, and God bless you, God Blessings, Blessings Blessings. - Tom and Jocko, Jockos - Elyssa, Tom and Cheers, Jon Jon and Joe ( ) . - Jon & Taffy , & Joc Tom . . Jon, Jon, Joc & Terence Joc and J.A. (J. ( ) - J.R. ( ) - Jon & J.V. ( ), and Jon ( ) . Joe ( ) & Jon ( , J.E. ( ). John ( ) ( ) Thank you, Jon & John (J) (Josie (J). (A. J. (AJ) & Jon (S.J.) (Tulsi ) (Alyssa) And Jon (A)
00:01:53.000Like you, that's run for president, like I knew you when people didn't know you that well, and then all of a sudden people know you way more, and now you're kind of a household name.
00:02:02.000So to watch this process and to watch all the machinery sort of move in your direction, it's very interesting.
00:02:12.000I mean, that literally is our challenge here, is we are up against the most powerful overall political machine.
00:02:21.000When you look at this machine that's revved up their engines to try to define me as something that casts suspicion or doubts or whatever in people's minds.
00:02:53.000The status quo that they represent and that they've profited off for a very long time.
00:03:00.000So my campaign, we don't take any contributions from PACs or lobbyists, fueled completely by contributions from individual people.
00:03:10.000And they are outspending us by many, many multiples where we need help To challenge their narrative with the truth, telling me, hey, this is who I am.
00:03:21.000This is why I'm running for president.
00:03:23.000This is the experience and the background that I bring to this job.
00:03:26.000We've got to be able to bypass that mainstream corporate media and just go directly to voters.
00:03:35.000What does the experience of being attacked feel like?
00:03:44.000It's nothing that I've ever really taken personally because I understand the situation.
00:03:54.000I understand that whatever the smears are, however radical they are, it shows me that they feel threatened.
00:04:04.000And they are concerned about both the unifying message that I'm bringing because we have Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Independents who are joining this coalition that is fueling our campaign and it's a campaign of by and for the people and one that's actually speaking the truth.
00:04:24.000That's calling for an end to these regime change wars, calling for A de-escalation of tensions between the United States and other nuclear-armed countries, an end to this new Cold War, nuclear arms race.
00:04:34.000Actually, hey, let's focus our limited taxpayer dollars on actually serving the needs of our people.
00:04:41.000That's really the message that we're bringing, and it scares the hell out of them.
00:04:45.000What's interesting is, for me, again, as an outsider, it's a clear...
00:04:50.000Clear recognition that what they want versus what they say they want are two very different things.
00:05:16.000And the other thing they're saying is that, you know, in order for Democrat to beat Donald Trump in 2020, you're going to have to be able to take Trump voters away from him.
00:05:26.000You're going to have to win over those independents who stayed home in 2016, or even some of those Democrats who voted for Trump because they feel like our party has left them behind.
00:06:20.000Which was, you know, I was raising some very important issues related to criminal justice reform, you know, ending the federal marijuana prohibition, and essentially pointing to leadership, because we're all asking to lead this country and bring the experience that each of us has that's very distinct and different.
00:06:41.000And her whole campaign was based on the premise of being a prosecutor for the people, being the Attorney General here in California, Okay, you've said you're proud of your record.
00:06:53.000This is what you have done when you were in a position to make a positive change for the people.
00:07:01.000And I think that speaks louder than words.
00:07:03.000When you had more bullets in the chamber, too, because there was other things you didn't even touch on.
00:07:07.000You didn't really touch upon her saying to single mothers that she was going to prosecute them and lock them up if they didn't get their kids in school.
00:07:17.000Yeah, I mean, I've seen her talk about that as if it's a good idea, that this was a good solution.
00:07:24.000To scare single moms with a fear of jail if their kid didn't go to school.
00:07:30.000That's the challenge of this debate format that's so frustrating.
00:07:35.000You've got 60 to 75 seconds to get your point across, to be able to talk about, hey, here's my position.
00:07:43.000Here's what I would do with North Korea.
00:07:46.000Here's how I would deal with immigration reform in 60 seconds or less.
00:07:53.000Jocko, I don't even know how you stand politically, which is hilarious, because you're one of the few guys that's just not defined politically online.
00:07:59.000Because people think of you as such a savage, they leave all the politics out of it.
00:08:03.000They just go, I don't know what, he just gets up at 4 o'clock in the morning, leaves a puddle of sweat.
00:08:43.000I don't think the government is a great solution to a lot of our problems, you know?
00:08:49.000So for me, it's like, you know, smaller government, probably a better thing.
00:08:54.000And I think probably why you get this impression from me is I actually have a balanced, I believe that the solutions are somewhere balanced.
00:09:03.000And in America right now, that doesn't really get a lot of traction because everything is broken down into such little tiny sound bites of you're either pro this or you're against it.
00:10:03.000I never thought of it from that perspective before.
00:10:05.000And also just thinking of what other people's perspectives are.
00:10:09.000Because, you know, you just talked about single moms.
00:10:11.000Well, you've got to take that into perspective.
00:10:12.000Because it might be easy for me to say, because I've got kids, but I've got a wife, and we can make things happen.
00:10:17.000But, oh, single moms over here working two, three jobs.
00:10:19.000You know, you always talk about me getting up at 4.30 in the morning.
00:10:22.000And I always say, look, there's single moms out there that are getting up at 3.30 in the morning to go work their first shift at the diner so they can get to their second shift at the grade school or wherever they're working so they can do their third shift at some other restaurant at night.
00:10:36.000I gotta understand that perspective, and we all have to understand that perspective.
00:10:39.000And the last thing, when you talk about this 60-second answers, which is insane, and I've been interviewed on TV before a bunch as well, and it's actually crazy.
00:10:49.000When you compare it to a podcast, it's completely crazy that you have to fit your thoughts into one sentence, maybe two sentences.
00:10:57.000And the 24-hour news cycle that we're on...
00:11:00.000Every news story that comes out is the end of the world, right?
00:11:12.000Just like when if Hillary got elected, it's the end of the world.
00:11:15.000If Trump gets elected, it's the end of the world.
00:11:17.000I had early on, right after Trump got elected, Somebody I was doing a reddit AMA and as soon as I signed on for my reddit AMA up pops this question and it's Clearly the guy had spent a lot of time writing it and it was this this sort of breakdown of the Russians and Trump and all this negativity and And you know I basically took his whole paragraph and I answered it in one sentence.
00:11:41.000I said America is stronger than one man And that's the truth.
00:11:46.000Like, hey, America is stronger than one man.
00:11:48.000One man is not going to take down this country.
00:12:09.000Oh, you know, these things go back and forth.
00:12:11.000We end up with Clinton, then we end up with Bush, and then we end up with Obama, and then we end up with Trump.
00:12:17.000So there's a balance that happens out.
00:12:19.000So when I think of my political beliefs or where I stand politically, it's like, oh, you're not going to be able to place me very well because I'm going to listen to what different people have to say.
00:12:30.000I'm going to try and understand what their perspectives are, and then I'm going to say, oh, not what's best for me or what satisfies my ego, but what's good for America.
00:12:38.000Well, it actually makes sense for America, and that's what I would move forward on.
00:12:42.000Tulsi, have you thought at all about doing a podcast of your own?
00:12:47.000It's been just a function of time and capacity.
00:12:52.000Almost like you could just have someone record some of your thoughts while you're on tour and just do it, you know, like it doesn't have to be overproduced.
00:13:02.000But that ability to get those thoughts out there in a way where you can form full sentences, explore ideas, express your concerns, talk about it without the pressure of this buzzer when...
00:13:15.000When you're in the middle of something, Congresswoman, Congresswoman, Congresswoman.
00:13:19.000We've got to cut the commercial break.
00:13:28.000And the idea that, isn't it possible, can't someone step up, can't Apple or fucking Samsung or something step up and say, we are going to advertise at the beginning of this show And then we're going to promote the whole show.
00:13:41.000So the whole show, we're going to just let it run with no commercial interruptions.
00:14:00.000It's so strange that we have decided that this commercial-oriented, meaning it has to be sandwiched in between commercials, that this is the way we are going to let our potential future leaders discuss the most important thing on Earth.
00:14:17.000And it's going to be interrupted by, what, gum?
00:14:28.000They have alternatives, and they're not getting anything of value from the conversation that's happening on these debates that are really like political reality TV. They are completely set up for conflict and confrontation to drive up ratings so that they can make more money.
00:14:45.000The corporate media can make more money.
00:15:05.000Rather than it being this money-driven, ratings-driven venture, which the media is doing across the board, both its debates and kind of what issues they're choosing to cover, go back to the League of Women Voters, who used to actually host presidential forums that would have real questions about real issues that people care about in a way that's not broken up by commercial breaks in advertising so that people can make money.
00:16:13.000That's the best way we understand who he really is.
00:16:16.000I mean, you can get some of that out of speeches, but when he posts a picture of Greenland with a giant Trump Tower in it and says, I promise not to do this, listen, if you're on Team America, you want that guy to keep tweeting.
00:16:32.000You called it a while ago when you say, hey, there's no comedians that have that skill, which Trump has, of cracking jokes, making fun of people, letting the other jokes roll off his back because he doesn't care what people say about them, basically.
00:16:46.000And no one's really had to contend with that until now.
00:16:54.000I mean, when you watch the original Republican debates, when he was running for president, and he starts attacking these guys, you see them, Marco Rubio, you see them lock up, you know, Crazy Ted, like, oh, he's going after me!
00:18:10.000And that was something, yeah, back in 2016, I was the vice chair of the Democratic National Committee.
00:18:17.000Therefore, as an officer, the DNC had to remain neutral in the presidential election, which was my plan to do so.
00:18:24.000I really made the decision to resign from that seat so that I could endorse Bernie Sanders, largely because of his Yeah, I think.
00:18:54.000And I saw that in those debates at that time, the conversations that were had, the media was not bringing up this difference between the two of them so that voters could make an informed choice of who they want their commander-in-chief to be, which to me, just as a soldier, as a veteran,
00:19:09.000as an American, I'm like, how can you not be putting this issue at the forefront?
00:19:14.000So I resigned from that position, endorsed Bernie Sanders, started going out and just talking about and raising these issues on the campaign trail.
00:19:21.000But I remember one of the first interviews that I did on MSNBC, the host of the show saying, aren't you afraid of what the Clintons will do to you?
00:19:38.000You know, my answer was no, obviously, but it was interesting to see the reaction, like, the days after when I first went back to D.C. after I made that announcement of endorsement.
00:19:51.000And friends of mine, you know, politicians in Washington, they were like, man, Tulsi, like, go with God, sister.
00:20:17.000There's probably some of it, most of it, let's say it's all made up.
00:20:20.000The fact that that's out there, that the thought is out there, that they will whack you.
00:20:25.000Well, there's, I mean, the people who are saying, hey, look, you know, there are lists that are kept and your political career will be over.
00:20:31.000That was really the message that I got from people who've been around the block a few times.
00:20:35.000And I think the most recent thing that came up with what Hillary Clinton said about me is not a spat between two people.
00:20:44.000It really just shows the complete difference between And the conflict in our foreign policy views of what I call the Bush-Clinton doctrine of interventionism and regime change wars and warmongering versus what I'm putting forward,
00:21:02.000which is let's stop the regime change war world's police policies.
00:21:07.000I work to end this new Cold War and arms race, put the interests of the American people first, always ensuring that we have a strong and capable, ready military to defend our nation and our people, and honoring that service and sacrifice that our troops give by only sending them on missions worthy of their sacrifice,
00:21:27.000maximizing diplomacy, engagement with other countries in the world, I think?
00:21:47.000It's because of this change in foreign policy that I'm bringing about, because when it comes right down to it, you know, whether you're going back to the Cold War, back to Vietnam War, back to, you know, the Iraq War overthrowing Saddam Hussein, Libya, Gaddafi, the media has always kind of been this cheerleading voice for these wars to happen,
00:22:05.000sending a very clear narrative out to the American people.
00:22:08.000And I think it comes down to it's good business for them.
00:22:12.000I want to talk to you about that, but I want to talk to you about what she said to you, or about you rather, that she said that you were a Russian asset.
00:22:26.000How does someone who was running for president...
00:22:30.000And it is one of the most prominent politicians in our country.
00:22:34.000How do they get away with saying something that's such a huge accusation with no information to back it up?
00:22:44.000It would be a good question for a normal person, but when you look at the power of the Clinton machine, when you look at the power of the political establishment, which is made up of people who are either part of the...
00:23:03.000Clinton's so-called family or who are part of this political establishment that is built on the same foundation that she, Hillary Clinton, laid.
00:23:12.000When you look at the media establishment, who've been pushing a lot of the same narrative and a lot of the same message, then you can see how somebody gets away with calling a sitting member of Congress, a candidate for president, A soldier actively serving the Army National Guard,
00:23:30.000veteran of two Middle East deployments, basically a traitor to the country that I love and that I'm willing to lay my life down for and to get away with it without any evidence or base whatsoever.
00:24:37.000And I think that's the, like, this is bigger, this is really not about me.
00:24:41.000The danger here of what she did and how the media responded and how almost every single other candidate for president refused to comment, refused to denounce what she said.
00:24:56.000I think Bernie is an exception, Marianne Williamson, Andrew Yang, a couple of them had the courage to say, hey, look, this is ridiculous.
00:25:04.000The fact that that was the response is really – it has a chilling effect on our freedom of speech in this country.
00:25:14.000And it sends a message that whether it's Tulsi Gabbard or any other American or any other veteran who dares to stand up and challenge the establishment, challenge this foreign policy narrative, call for peace, call for an end to these senseless,
00:25:30.000unnecessary regime change wars, then you too – Can be smeared.
00:25:38.000Do you ever think you could reach a tipping point where this happens enough?
00:25:43.000This kind of thing happens where you just say, all right, I'm done with, in this case, the Democratic Party.
00:25:48.000I mean, even after what they did to Bernie in 2016, right?
00:25:53.000I'm sure that had to be a tipping point for a lot of people that said, wait a second, this is the guy we wanted, and you totally hosed him, and now we got this woman over here, but we didn't want him.
00:26:02.000How many times can this happen before people go, oh, you know, I'm done with this?
00:26:08.000I see this as something that's bigger than just the Democratic Party, because we see how this kind of foreign policy elite and establishment in Washington has crossed both parties over different times.
00:26:23.000And it's something that I think goes much deeper than that.
00:26:25.000I'm working to bring about reforms in the Democratic Party to make it so that it is more democratic, more open, more transparent, more inclusive and welcoming of people who may agree on some issues, disagree on others, but one that is actually serving as a platform for the people,
00:26:45.000fighting for the people, thinking about what's in the best interest of the people.
00:26:48.000That's the kind of change and reform that I'm working to bring about in the party.
00:26:53.000But I think the forces that we're challenging here are actually much bigger than that.
00:26:58.000I mean, you got to give a lot of credit to the Republican Party because the establishment Republicans, the last human being in the world that they wanted to run for president on the Republican ticket was Donald J. Trump.
00:28:19.000To raise that question in people's minds and to raise that suspicion and to do their best to try to undermine the support that we're getting from people.
00:28:28.000They did that interview with you on The View.
00:28:48.000Well, the view is, I mean, we have to really be thankful that it exists, because without that level of discourse on television, without being able to watch those geniuses banter around some of the most important ideas of today, I don't know where we'd be.
00:29:04.000I think it elevates us as a society, as a civilization, and it also shows the rest of the world how it's done.
00:29:10.000If you really want to see how the baddest country on Earth deals with political discourse and social issues, watch those gals.
00:29:54.000And then like, oh, I can't vote for her.
00:29:56.000I don't want to be kicked out of the team.
00:29:57.000This is what we see on Twitter all the time.
00:29:59.000That's a giant issue with the left, too.
00:30:01.000The left eats itself way more than any other party.
00:30:03.000And I don't know what that is about liberals in general that seem to really truly enjoy calling each other out for not being liberal enough.
00:30:21.000Okay, we can disagree on some stuff, but if we start attacking each other, it makes the other side stronger.
00:30:26.000So let's cut the shit publicly, and let's talk this through, and that's pretty much exactly what the Republicans have done for the most part.
00:30:33.000Yeah, and from a leadership perspective...
00:30:37.000It is almost always best to look at things in a balanced way and say, oh, I got this part of my team over here that wants to do this extreme thing, and the other part of the team wants to do the opposite extreme thing.
00:30:48.000The answer is going to be somewhere in the middle.
00:30:49.000Why don't I just find a good kind of solution that's somewhere in the middle?
00:30:54.000And, of course, the fringes are going to be a little bit mad.
00:30:57.000They're the fringes, but the bulk of people and what's good for the bulk of people is to make this kind of balanced decision and move forward with it.
00:31:05.000But we don't get that kind of logic inside of these leaders, especially when they're running.
00:31:12.000Yeah, which is, you know, they run and then as soon as they get in, they're running for re-election.
00:31:16.000It's so frustrating as a citizen to sit back and watch us going from the debate format to the way things are handled.
00:31:26.000I don't understand why there haven't been radical improvements.
00:31:51.000It's so bonkers and we sit around and we wait for this magical day in November where we're going to all fix it and we all know that it's not going to get fixed and it's just a weird place to be in where everyone's aware that there's an issue and no one's fixing it.
00:32:07.000When I look at this upcoming election, I have no idea.
00:32:12.000And I had a pretty good idea who was going to win in 2016, just like everyone else.
00:32:16.000I figured, of course, Hillary Clinton's going to win this thing.
00:33:42.000And update our immigration laws so that they are humane and that they actually serve the interests of our country, our economy, our families, education, and so on and so forth.
00:33:52.000I mean, this is something that, yeah, Republicans and Democrats, if you just sit down and have the conversation...
00:33:58.000You say, oh yeah, I actually agree with that.
00:34:00.000Like you're saying, okay, that's a really good point.
00:34:02.000Maybe we should do it this way, maybe we should do it that way.
00:34:04.000But if we can agree on the objective, then we can have the meaningful conversation about how to get there, rather than continuing what we are doing.
00:34:12.000We have not seen an update to our immigration laws for decades.
00:34:23.000Honestly, both sides are so busy throwing crap at each other and arrows at each other because it's about partisanship and getting the political win rather than actually solving the problem.
00:35:04.000The real issue is there's parts of the world, whatever you want to use, third world, whatever phrase you want to use, there's parts of the world economically where if you're born there, you're kind of screwed.
00:35:27.000And until that gets balanced out, which traditionally takes centuries for close nearby countries for everything to even out, Especially when the politics are so different between Mexico and the United States.
00:36:10.000Could you imagine, Jaco, as a military man, a situation like that happening in the United States, where some cartel forces the United States military to release a prisoner?
00:36:36.000Yeah, you want to find out what the Sacramento Amendment's really for?
00:36:39.000If that ever took place in this country, if there was ever a situation in this country where we felt like we were really overrun by a cartel where they were taking over cities, like what's going on in Mexico, you would understand how rabidly independent this country really is.
00:36:55.000And even, you know, when you talk about people that are living down in Mexico that wanted to come here, it's like, oh, you feel for them because they got a bad deal.
00:37:02.000But a lot of the people that are trying to come here are MS-13 gangsters looking to come up here and whatever, do what they're going to do in America where there's even more money to be made off of illegal activities.
00:37:13.000Yeah, if you could throw the Wonder Woman lasso of truth around them and find out what they're really all about, that would be great.
00:37:32.000Boy, there's a lot of people that you don't want coming here, and it probably should be a good idea to check people for criminal history and violent pasts.
00:37:40.000See if you're a member of the cartel before you sneak into Mexico or Arizona.
00:37:46.000I think there are practical limitations.
00:37:48.000Even if you said, okay, well, we want to welcome anybody and everybody in the world who is suffering and who is in need of help or a better life to come to the United States.
00:38:02.000We don't have the resources as a country to be able to do that when, you know, look, here in LA, I was on Skid Row about a month or two ago coming and visiting there.
00:38:14.000The homeless crisis in Hawaii is the worst per capita of any state in the country.
00:38:20.000It's something that's affecting both urban cities and rural communities across the country.
00:38:24.000We have Almost 80 million people who are uninsured and underinsured in this country who can't get the medicine they need and who are literally driving their kid to Mexico to buy insulin because they have diabetes and they can't afford to get the medicine here at home.
00:38:38.000We got a lot of issues and a lot of challenges that we've got to deal with.
00:38:41.000And my view is we've got to be pragmatic and practical in how we are seeing the situation, looking at what our objective is and how does that best serve the people of this country, and then figure out, okay, what's the best way for us to get there?
00:38:57.000And I think that's what's unfortunately lost in this hyper-partisan political atmosphere, whether you're talking about what's going on in Washington and the media or what's going on in Twitter, where you have these extremes, you have this rush to judgment when people aren't taking the time.
00:39:11.000Both to sit down and first try to understand the problem.
00:39:14.000Like, you know, this goes back to like military decision-making process 101. First, you got to understand the problem, right?
00:39:24.000And then build your plan and then execute.
00:39:27.000That just doesn't happen these days because it's more about calling the other guys' names or, you know, having this race on this happens all the time.
00:39:34.000There's like something happens in the news.
00:40:54.000And I got a message from up in my chain of command, and they're like, hey Jocko, we get that you're doing these missions, but right now we're not seeing any changes in the metrics as far as enemy attacks that are happening, right?
00:41:06.000And luckily, I had read the counterinsurgency manual that was written by General Petraeus, and part of that explains that the average counterinsurgency takes seven years to work itself out, right?
00:41:18.000And so I said, hey, you know, boss, the average counterinsurgency takes seven years to flush itself out.
00:41:42.000You need to let these things develop and see where the actual long-term effects are.
00:41:47.000We can't be snapping judgments and making radical decisions or split decisions when we have to actually assess what is really going on.
00:41:56.000And so the press, for sure, is like, snap decision, snap decision, snap decision.
00:42:00.000And you can see, it's comical to flip back and forth between the two, the left-wing media and the right-wing media, and one of them's the greatest decision ever, and the other one's the most horrible thing that's ever happened, and there you go.
00:42:10.000And you know, no one can even make an assessment of what just happened, because it only happened 14 minutes ago.
00:42:28.000But here's the course of events that took place, A, B, C, D, and E. And that's exactly what we're missing most of the time.
00:42:35.000Well, I think it's what we were talking about earlier.
00:42:37.000I think we're poisoned by this desire to have our information fed to us very quickly and the fact that there's so much information coming at us, we don't have enough time to sit back and read a manual on how long it takes counterinsurgency efforts to reach fruition.
00:42:53.000The fact that that's hitting you in the military, that you would think that the most pragmatic, the most disciplined people that understand the long game, that are playing 3D chess, those are the people that you would want Telling people like you what you can and can't do.
00:43:06.000The fact that that kind of thinking is even filtering down to special ops groups is crazy.
00:43:13.000Well, what's nice is we do have decentralized command inside the military.
00:43:15.000So when I'm telling my boss this is what's going on, my boss isn't like, shut up and do what I told you to do.
00:43:31.000Veer from that at all, but if my boss tells me to do something that doesn't make any sense I'm gonna say hey boss.
00:43:37.000This actually is a bad plan We should do it a different way and if I have a good boss my boss says okay I didn't see that angle and that's another thing that you know when Tulsi's talking about how politicians we come up with a plan and then we start executing the plan and Guess what?
00:43:50.000Once you start executing a plan, some other things are going to come to light, right?
00:43:54.000And you as a leader have to say, hey, you know what?
00:44:03.000Here's what we're going to do, and I'm going to wait for that feedback to come to me.
00:44:06.000The problem is people are so insecure or slash their ego is so big that they will, they'll just, I'm just going to stick with the same plan.
00:44:16.000It's like, no, actually we need to make some changes.
00:44:18.000Because they, you know, they are afraid of saying, hey, my initial assessment might have been inaccurate or wrong.
00:44:24.000And I think that also just points to the bigger point for the political leadership, the civilian leadership that sets the policy that the military executes is so often lacks that foresight.
00:44:35.000And that planning of actually looking, okay, if we pursue course of action A, here will be the second, third, fourth order of effects, right?
00:44:44.000Here's how the enemy or the opponent is likely to react, or here's how other actors are likely to react to our action.
00:44:52.000So we can try to anticipate that and then we can, okay, this is how we would respond.
00:44:56.000This is how they're likely to respond and actually go through this so that we don't end up in the situation that we too often find ourselves in where you're like, all right, here's the mission, guys.
00:45:40.000What's our end state and exit strategy?
00:45:42.000When you look back, and I've seen this throughout my seven years in Congress, sitting on the Foreign Affairs Committee, sitting on the Armed Services Committee, where we're questioning and providing oversight over the Department of Defense and Department of State, asking leaders these questions.
00:45:57.000And when we're not given answers or given ambiguous answers or things like I asked Secretary Mattis once in a hearing about how al-Qaeda has gotten so strong in Syria to where,
00:46:13.000I mean, right now they control an entire city.
00:46:16.000The entire city of Idlib is controlled by al-Qaeda.
00:46:20.000And I asked him at that time, I said, why aren't we going after Al-Qaeda in Syria in a very serious and concerted way?
00:46:28.000And his answer was, well, it's complicated.
00:46:33.000And it's frustrating to say the least, but I think it's been a very...
00:46:41.000It's been a very clear window into the lack of foresight and good judgment and just the ability to look at these challenges and situations with that basic understanding in a non-emotional way and understand what's the objective cost and consequences before we launch this action.
00:47:04.000I want to talk about something you brought up briefly earlier about the media being sort of cheerleaders for a lot of these wars or a lot of these military actions.
00:47:13.000Do you think that that happens because this ensures that they get access?
00:47:17.000Do you think it happens because conflict is good for their business?
00:47:20.000Do you think it happens because if they don't act as cheerleaders, they don't get access to the leaders and to the important politicians and military leaders?
00:47:29.000I think that the underlying driver is that conflict is good for ratings.
00:47:35.000That's crazy that that is their decision how to cover things.
00:47:40.000It's the war machine that they're a part of and that they're a driving force for.
00:47:52.000I think that there have been reports I think over time, I think you had Matt Taibbi here recently, where you've got, you know, journalists who are more, or even, you know, papers who are more interested in covering for their,
00:48:08.000you know, CIA relationships, rather than actually bringing forward a story that the American, the truth, you know, that the American people deserve to hear.
00:48:17.000So I think there are other factors there that drive the media really playing a heavily influential and dangerous force in continuing to push this warmongering narrative that is costly in an immeasurable way.
00:48:39.000Well, the coverage is so influential, and that influence, it changes the way people accept or don't accept things that are happening internationally.
00:48:49.000Do you remember when there was a time when Obama had talked about attacking Syria?
00:48:56.000Yes, that was in 2013. The entire country was like, fuck you.
00:49:12.000I think that was one of the most brave decisions that he made, to back off from it.
00:49:21.000Where he actually, you know, he didn't take that position in that example of just kind of being the obstinate, stubborn, like, nope, here's what I said, and he drew this red line, and I'm not going to go back on it no matter what.
00:49:33.000I think he listened to the American people, and ultimately he chose diplomacy.
00:49:38.000Well, this is an area where people have been critical of you, is your position on Syria and the fact that you had met with Assad, and this is something that gets brought up.
00:49:46.000And again, it gets brought up in these little soundbite things that are seeking to define you without any nuance or any complexity.
00:49:53.000Just let this little tiny sentence or two define your position, and then they can repeat that to other people without really knowing what they're talking about.
00:50:03.000What is your position on Syria and Assad?
00:50:06.000And how did all this conflict and all this weirdness with you in this subject begin?
00:50:12.000I think it goes back to, again, the opposition that comes towards me from the political establishment, you know, the corporate media and the military-industrial complex because of the leadership and the voice that I've been bringing calling for an end to regime change wars,
00:50:34.000whether we're talking about the one in Iraq, Libya, and in Syria.
00:50:42.000Look, my choice will always be towards diplomacy, because if we lack the courage to meet with both adversaries and friends in the pursuit of our own national security and peace,
00:51:03.000So I will always choose to maximize all diplomatic means and measures and talks and negotiations To further our interests of peace and national security, recognizing that war should always be the last resort,
00:51:21.000Now, it's very difficult for people to understand that these things are insanely messy, and you saying that you would always lean towards diplomacy does not mean you support dictators.
00:52:00.000I mean, it's a chaotic place right now.
00:52:03.000It wasn't good when Gaddafi was running Libya, but it wasn't as bad as it is now.
00:52:09.000So the idea that supporting Gaddafi is supporting a dictatorship and you're a monster for supporting him, like, maybe not, because it's kind of worse now because the world is a very messy place.
00:52:21.000And it's not even a matter of quote-unquote supporting.
00:52:25.000It's just saying, hey, we're not going to come in and overthrow you and your government.
00:52:28.000I think that's the issue here and the contradiction when people are criticizing me for exercising diplomacy and calling for an end to the regime change movement.
00:53:32.000You have the leaders of North Korea time and time again have said, hey, look, we're developing nuclear weapons as the only deterrent that'll work against the United States coming in and overthrowing our government.
00:54:01.000And then you went in and overthrew Gaddafi.
00:54:04.000Why will this be any different with us?
00:54:05.000And then you've got John Bolton as then the national security director for Trump going on television or giving speeches saying, yeah, you know, we're going to approach North Korea with the Libya model.
00:54:33.000Continuing to say, hey, no, we're not going to overthrow you in your government, Kim Jong-un.
00:54:37.000But on the other hand, you're continuing the policies that directly undermine your ability...
00:54:43.000To make that agreement that'll hold and that'll stay.
00:54:49.000And as a result now, we have North Korea, that's nuclear weapons program is continuing to escalate.
00:54:58.000Their capabilities are continuing to grow.
00:55:00.000And it poses a threat not only to, you know, my folks in Hawaii, the people of Hawaii, given our proximity to North Korea, but their capabilities now, they're extending across the West Coast, they're extending across the country, posing a very direct existential threat to our country and to our people.
00:55:18.000So you see how that decision that was made about Libya, these decisions that are ongoing, you see the pulling out of the Iran nuclear agreement, North Korea says, hey, You guys made an agreement with them.
00:55:27.000You got a different president elected.
00:55:31.000Why should we think that's going to be any different with us?
00:55:33.000So these policy decisions that are being made are very directly connected in having the effect, ultimately, of undermining our national security and making the American people less safe.
00:55:46.000I'll tell you, I think a couple things come up just kind of on what you're saying, and this is kind of my perspective on it.
00:55:53.000When we talk about, hey, when you go in somewhere, you've got to know what the end state is.
00:56:00.000You've got to know where you're going and when you're going to leave.
00:56:03.000What's really hard about that is we don't necessarily know, and war is so unpredictable that you may, you know, there's a chance that you went in and killed Gaddafi, and then all of a sudden some benevolent person steps up, and all of a sudden you've got this flourishing democracy.
00:56:43.000So we don't necessarily know where we're going to go, which means you've got to have, once again, like the open mind to say, oh, this isn't going the way we thought it was going to go.
00:56:52.000How are we going to adjust right now to prevent this from getting worse?
00:56:55.000Which means what you really have to do Is prior to intervening in other countries, you have to assess what sacrifices you are willing to make to get the result that is positive.
00:57:52.000So you can't look at it and say, well, you know, we can go into Libya, we can move this guy, and probably it'll turn out okay, so we don't have to worry about what the sacrifices are gonna be.
00:57:59.000Another thing to think about, when we went to war, We went to World War II, World War I. Those kids, 18 years old, 17 years old, those kids went to war until the war was over.
00:58:30.000If that was our attitude going into the war, this is so important to us that Johnny is gonna get on a ship and he's gonna sail to the Pacific, and if he comes home, it's gonna be in three years, four years, five years.
00:58:43.000That's the level of commitment we have.
00:58:45.000So when we start looking at going into other countries, we need to start thinking, okay, what level of commitment do we really have to make this successful?
00:58:53.000And even when I look at Iraq, I was in Iraq, I fought in Iraq, From a granular perspective, being on the ground, Battle of Ramadi 2006, the citizens of Ramadi, the normal citizens of Ramadi were overjoyed that we were there.
00:59:11.000And it was like we were angels to go there and help them get rid of these heinous Al-Qaeda insurgents, which eventually became ISIS. Unfortunately, we did a great job Ramadi was the model of counterinsurgency for about seven years,
00:59:32.000and it was less violent than many cities in America.
00:59:37.000And I had great pride and at least understood the sacrifices.
00:59:42.000My friends that were killed, my friends that never came home, my friends that won't get to have kids, right?
01:00:05.000As soon as we left, everybody that had been on the ground in Iraq was like, hmm, this is probably not a good idea.
01:00:10.000This is probably not a good idea to bail out right now.
01:00:12.000We don't need to leave a massive force there, but if we leave a couple brigades worth of men, then, oh, we'll probably be able to handle any problems that happen.
01:00:25.000And those insurgents that were there, they were like little embers and they started to get fired up again.
01:00:31.000And then the next thing you know, you had ISIS. And by the way, ISIS marched back into Ramadi.
01:00:36.000And the reports we got from people on the ground that we knew was that ISIS came in and anyone that had worked with coalition forces on any level, they would murder the whole family.
01:00:46.000There's about 500 families that were completely murdered.
01:00:49.000So when we talk about these things, We have to be very sure about what we're gonna do.
01:00:57.000We have to recognize that we can't predict everything, because we can't.
01:01:00.000I don't care how good you are, I don't care how many analysis you put on something.
01:01:03.000When you start throwing human nature into a leadership vacuum, all these things are gonna break out, and it can go very, very bad.
01:01:09.000It can go well, too, but it can go very, very bad.
01:01:13.000And so what are we willing to sacrifice?
01:01:16.000How many of our brothers and sisters in uniform are we willing to sacrifice to make this happen?
01:01:21.000And how does it help our national security?
01:01:24.000I believe right now, had we stayed there, Iraq would be a pretty strong, positive place right now if we had kind of completed the mission the way that we should have.
01:01:37.000Again, when we go back and we say, okay, well, what countries is it worth going into?
01:01:46.000For me, this is what we do as leaders.
01:01:48.000What we do as leaders, we look at a situation.
01:01:50.000And sometimes, you know, you've got to ask yourself, do we have a moral obligation to go somewhere?
01:01:55.000If there's a genocide happening, if there's another Rwanda happening, where 800,000 Tutsis are killed in 100 days with machetes, if that's going on, do we have a moral obligation to try and do something to help that?
01:02:10.000Hey, that's a decision you have to meet.
01:02:12.000That's a hard decision to make as a leader, because guess what?
01:02:14.000You're going to lose 30, 40, 100 Americans that are going in there and trying to shut this thing down.
01:02:20.000But that's the type of thing we need to think about.
01:02:22.000And that's why, as a leader, you want to have an open mind.
01:02:26.000You want to have your ego completely out of it.
01:02:29.000Because it's really easy to say, oh, we're America.
01:03:33.000If there was one thing when I brought you two together that I thought that you might disagree on, it would be this stance on non-interventionalist foreign policy.
01:03:42.000I don't know if that's even the right word, disagree.
01:03:45.000But I think there's nuances to these decisions and these things, and I think you would agree with that.
01:03:50.000And Rwanda, what you talked about, is a great example.
01:03:53.000Do you have a moral responsibility to go in when you see some atrocities being committed?
01:03:59.000That's one thing that people either pro or con on is the United States, are we the police force of the world?
01:04:52.000When you actually peel back the layers, there are ulterior motives in place that set the pretext to use our military to go and overthrow a regime in another country or topple a dictator that ultimately ends up more often than not resulting in the lives of the suffering,
01:05:11.000more suffering for the people in the countries who are supposedly trying to go and help.
01:05:15.000However, I've been very strong on this.
01:05:18.000We're talking about Al-Qaeda, ISIS, these other jihadist terrorists who are a threat to our national security.
01:05:26.000We need to stay strong in defeating that threat.
01:05:30.000That is our function as warriors, as service members in the military, is to go and protect and defend the American people and to take out those who seek to do us harm.
01:05:41.000In the case of a genocide, like Rwanda, Where there is a killing of people at a massive scale.
01:05:49.000We look to see, hey, is there something that we can do to help end this genocide?
01:05:56.000Can we bring together a coalition that can effectively stop this genocide?
01:06:01.000And if the answer to that is yes, then we should do so.
01:06:05.000But the problem that we've seen a lot more recently is you'll see the word genocide being used very loosely as an excuse to go and say,
01:06:20.000hey, well, go and topple this dictator who is inflicting a genocide on their own people without...
01:06:28.000It actually meeting the criteria of a genocide when really there's a conflict within the country, whether it be based on politics or power or whatever, that's a very different thing than like what we saw in Rwanda, for example.
01:06:46.000I think before we go in and make this decision to take military action, we've really got to look very carefully at what is the situation?
01:06:55.000Where is the information that we're coming from?
01:06:57.000Is it coming from people who are pushing their own narrative for their own interests, where they're not really caring about the interests of the people in these countries?
01:07:05.000Or the interests of the American people and our troops.
01:08:02.000They have such a passionate hatred for him that he could just, you know, cure cancer and people would say, well, he did it for his own good.
01:08:11.000I have friends that hate him and I have friends that like him and I have friends that love him and that's what's hilarious to me.
01:08:17.000Whenever he does something, I love to call the friends who hate him and just have them scream and yell and rant about it and go, why are you so worked up, man?
01:08:28.000I've never heard that goddamn expression more in my entire life.
01:08:31.000Like, who the hell ever thought that quid pro quo would be like a gigantic talking point on every single major news station, every newspaper?
01:08:41.000It's a weird time, conflict-wise, in terms of just people's inability to just look at things with nuance and look at the complexity of these conversations and just say, you're on Team Trump or you're not.
01:09:20.000And they're so offended by it that it doesn't matter what he does.
01:09:23.000It's true, but then there's so many people that are like, you know what?
01:09:26.000At least I'm not getting robbed of my taxes.
01:09:31.000At least I'm not getting called a bigot because I don't want 6'6 men who transitioned to being a woman last week to play against my daughter in a basketball game.
01:09:42.000This is the world we're living in, where people are like, I'm going with Trump!
01:09:46.000He's talking, look, Kanye West is in the White House, he's not a racist!
01:09:50.000And this is where we're living now, this weird society that we have today where there's so much coming at us, and you can't pay attention to all of us, and between all the pop culture and nonsense, and the fucking ice caps are melting,
01:10:06.000the ocean's on fire, everyone's scared of everything!
01:10:09.000And then on top of that, there's all this political stuff that's going on.
01:10:12.000You don't have time to pay attention to all of it.
01:10:15.000If you tell me you're abreast of all of it, I'll tell you you're a liar.
01:10:20.000So I have a consulting company and I go around the country and I talk to every level in the chain of command, including the frontline troops, guys that work construction, guys that work gas oil, guys that are out, linemen that are out, manufacturing everything.
01:10:37.000Those people, most of them, they're not out on the fringe somewhere.
01:11:15.000That's what it's like for you, but that's not what it's like for everyone else.
01:11:18.000So even as the country seems so divided, you got to remember, the people that we hear that are so divisive are the loudmouths on either end.
01:11:35.000Yeah, and you know what's something that you and I, I think, can relate to is that a lot of these people don't have anything that brings them together.
01:11:40.000And I think they should all join a jiu-jitsu gym.
01:11:45.000But politics and all that stuff aside, the people that, as weird as it seems, the people that choke you and you choke and you get armbarred by, those are your brothers and sisters.
01:11:55.000And you realize, like, the way we look at politics, the way we look at decisions and, you know, what you can agree or disagree on, the direction of the country, there's a lack of community.
01:12:06.000There's a real lack of understanding that we're supposed to be, as the United States of America, we're supposed to be a giant community.
01:12:26.000And I hear you say this sometimes, and I get what you're saying, but, you know, you'll say, hey, this person's in a cubicle, and they hate their job, and they hate their life, and that's like, of course...
01:12:37.000I get it that there's some people that end up in jobs that they don't want to do, and I certainly couldn't see Joe Rogan sitting in a cubicle or on a manufacturing line, but like, I got a factory up in Maine.
01:12:45.000These people that are up there working, They love it.
01:12:49.000They're Americans that love hard work and they're building an American product and it's like, oh, okay, this is what I do.
01:14:14.000There's no wolves in the streets, and they're not worried about it.
01:14:16.000And that's why when we talk about worldwide problems...
01:14:20.000What I think is what you do, the best possible thing that we can do in this country to help all these problems, every single problem that we've talked about, build a strong economy.
01:14:40.000And that's why, you know, like from my perspective, You know, you get involved in a business, you start a business, you move, you help people, you build a product that people want.
01:14:49.000You build a business, you help the economy, and that is what equalizes the world more than anything else.
01:14:54.000Well, that's also argument for Team Trump.
01:14:58.000What he's doing is he's boosting up business in the United States, and whether or not you love him or hate him, what he's doing is having a positive net effect on the global economy, particularly the United States economy, and that's going to make us stronger.
01:15:10.000I mean, this is, whether you love him or hate him, you've got to look at that objectively and go, okay, well, is there any merit to what he's saying?
01:15:22.000But they're saying, yes, in some ways, he's doing things that benefit business.
01:15:27.000I think that the trouble with the approach that Trump has taken, you know, he obviously, he's got his shtick and he's got the things that he's got, the talking points, the things that he says.
01:15:37.000But he is continuing this mentality when we look at the trade war with China and the trade conflict that he started with Canada and now with different European countries.
01:15:52.000It's the zero-sum mentality that in order for us and our economy and our people to win, then the people or the economies of these other countries will I think?
01:16:30.000Tremendously because of this trade and tariff war, manufacturers, small business owners, and the danger of this continuing to grow and continuing to escalate, an economic war can very easily turn into a hot war.
01:16:48.000And again, we're talking about a nuclear-armed country where these ever-escalating tensions push us closer and closer to the brink of nuclear catastrophe, something nuclear strategists are saying that we are closer to now than at least in a generation now.
01:17:04.000I think this is where the foreign policy that I'm putting forward to the American people that I will lead with is one that is focused on engaging with other countries, being that force for good, focusing on cooperation rather than conflict in every respect,
01:17:20.000being able to work out, yeah, we do have trade differences with China, there's no question about that, but being able to do so in a way that is not further pushing us closer and closer to the brink of a hot war and potentially disastrous Can you get into that?
01:18:18.000Then all of a sudden something goes out on Twitter and they're like, whoa, man, the whole thing just changed.
01:18:24.000Which, you know, it's maybe funny when Trump is putting out something with Trump Tower in Greenland, but when there are such real consequences to the day-to-day lives of the American people, and when we're pushing us closer and closer to the brink of a nuclear catastrophe,
01:18:42.000escalating these tensions with countries like China and with Russia, this is, I mean, it's serious.
01:18:49.000And so this is more about how Trump is doing this in such an irresponsible way that's creating destabilization and uncertainty, both with our economy and also in our relationships with other countries.
01:19:00.000It's everything that made him famous as a businessman.
01:19:03.000All the brashness, all the shooting from the hip.
01:19:07.000The idea that everybody thought that he was going to change when he got into the White House is hilarious.
01:19:11.000The guy's 73. Oh, I actually, you can laugh at me then, because I thought, well, he got elected.
01:19:16.000I was like, okay, well, this is going to be interesting to see him, you know, kind of become presidential.
01:19:20.000And then like, whatever, one day into it, he was sending out a tweet about somebody.
01:19:27.000But what that means is he's unpredictable, right?
01:19:29.000And so he's the guy in the bar that you look at and you're like, well, I'm just going to give that guy a little extra clearance because he looks like he's crazy.
01:20:00.000Labor is more expensive in America because we pay our workers because they're awesome.
01:20:05.000And so it costs a little bit more to build the product.
01:20:09.000If you have a Chinese company that can make a jujitsu gi, and they're paying their workers a dollar a day, literally, and then they can ship that gi over here, well, then they can beat us on the price.
01:20:21.000Their quality's not as good, but they can beat us on the price, and someone goes, okay, well, I can pay, you know, 70 bucks for this Chinese gi or 100 bucks for this American gi.
01:20:28.000Okay, I'm going to buy the Chinese one at 70 bucks.
01:20:31.000And this actually, this part happened again, the details I can't quite remember, but they said, hey, we're not going to put a tariff on geese coming into America because they can't be made here.
01:21:38.000M-A-I-N-E. I was talking to my business partner and I was like, I was in the airport and I go, hey man, how many people do you know that train jujitsu?
01:21:45.000And he's like, I don't know, you know, like 30. And I go, how many people do you know that have a pair of jeans?
01:22:59.000Textiles up in Maine and when the trade war started it all went away It all went away in the 70s and the 80s and they literally took those machines and shipped them overseas to India and Pakistan and there was my buddy Pete there was one Loom.
01:23:39.000And he found this old timer that used to work on the looms.
01:23:43.000Him and his buddies, they went and dragged this thing out of this factory.
01:23:47.000They brought it into this little factory that he had built himself out in the middle of the woods and started taking apart this loom and reassembling it.
01:23:54.000And started weaving material and making geese.
01:24:56.000I think that's where, as we talk about overall trade policy and where we've gone wrong, you're saying, you know, what happened back in the 70s and 80s, you saw how These massive trade deals that were put in place, really the people who benefited most from them were the multinational corporations who were exporting these jobs and it was those mom and pop,
01:25:17.000those small business owners and manufacturers who suffered the most.
01:25:21.000And that's where I think as we look at, you know, trade negotiations with China, as we look at some of these trade deals with countries like India and others, that's where we've got to get back to.
01:25:30.000Rather than just making sure the largest corporations have a seat at the trade negotiations tables, we've got to have those small business voices, those small manufacturers, and make sure that our policy is actually helping empower and strengthen the back Backbone of our economy that has been before and that we need to bring it back to that helps improve the quality of life for the people who are working in Maine,
01:25:54.000manufacturing your jeans and your geese.
01:25:57.000And having such great pride in doing so, knowing like, hey man, yeah, this is made in America.
01:26:09.000They're the first words of our Constitution for a reason.
01:26:12.000That is what should be at the forefront of our policies across the board and all these different issues.
01:26:21.000If the first interest is not we the people, As it has been for so long, then we see what goes wrong, and then the consequence, we the people suffer.
01:26:31.000So what's going on right now, the consequences of this issue, this trade war with China, where it's really hitting, you were saying, is there's people in America that are selling things to China?
01:26:45.000I mean, you've heard a lot from, like, corn and soybean farmers in Iowa.
01:26:49.000That's a story that's been in the news a lot.
01:26:51.000We were at a farmer's market in, I think, yeah, I was in Des Moines recently, and we're kind of walking through and picking up some food and veggies and stuff like that.
01:27:00.000And we stopped at, like, an apple orchard that had a whole table with all these different beautiful, amazing apples.
01:27:06.000We started talking to the guy, him and his wife, were on this apple orchard.
01:27:09.000And he said, you know, the trade and tariff war with China has hit us really hard.
01:29:46.000They have a long game, and this long game is provide backdoor access so that data can be stolen, have that built into systems, and they've caught them doing this before.
01:29:57.000So they're like, you've got a finger in the dam here, and this whole thing can come tumbling down if you don't stop this company.
01:30:04.000I mean, I think some of those concerns are very valid when you're talking about Huawei, but I think also just the issue of building these backdoor entries into our technology is something that we are very concerned about both happening here at home.
01:30:22.000This has been an issue that we've been dealing with in Congress.
01:30:25.000Where, because of provisions that were passed in the Patriot Act, there were loopholes that have been exploited by some of our tech companies working with some of our intelligence agencies to build these back doors into their systems,
01:30:42.000into their programs, or into their hardware, which directly violates the civil liberties and Fourth Amendment rights for us as Americans.
01:30:52.000And I think that points to the bigger issue of the Civil liberties and privacy and the growing power that the tech industry has that we've got to be very, very, in my opinion, concerned and careful of and actually exercising the kind of oversight and accountability that we should have been doing,
01:31:23.000So the first debate that we had in this presidential election, we had hoped that I would do well going into it and that people would go and start their internet search and say, hey, who is Tulsi Gabbard?
01:31:36.000And so we went and got the Google ads set up, got them approved, everything was ready to rock and roll.
01:31:42.000I was the most Googled candidate of the night, as I have been for every debate that I've participated in.
01:31:49.000The issue was during that first debate, while that peak period was happening, our Google ad account was suspended by Google with no explanation whatsoever.
01:32:33.000And then all of a sudden, you know, hours and hours had gone by, and then our account was reinstated without any explanation about what happened.
01:32:40.000And, you know, this is bigger than just the loss in opportunity that my campaign had because this happened on that night during that peak period.
01:32:52.000It's a bigger issue about the power that this corporation has in Google in interfering essentially in fair elections and in what kind of information they are willing to put in front of people.
01:33:46.000Undefined and no investigation into it.
01:33:48.000Until you put out this lawsuit, there's really no way to find out.
01:33:52.000Yeah, it started to force that conversation that we're continuing to push to the forefront about how, particularly with Google and Facebook, the inordinate amount of power that they have...
01:34:04.000To, as we sit and type in a Google search for whatever, or, you know, what's popping up on our Facebook feed, they control that.
01:34:12.000I think that we have a real issue in this country with advertising in those things, in Google and Facebook, a real issue that it's never really been fully discussed, because those things just sort of came up out of nowhere.
01:34:22.000You know, we had social networks, we had MySpace, and we had, you know, we didn't think anything of it.
01:34:28.000And then all of a sudden, not only are they here, but they have this extraordinary amount of influence.
01:34:34.000So it's not just they're putting out what people put out.
01:34:36.000They have algorithms that figure out what you're into and then show you that.
01:34:41.000So if you're just really in a conflict, which most people are, they're just showing you conflict all day long and it's getting everybody riled up.
01:34:47.000So it's having a direct effect, whether it's planned and coordinated or not, it's having a direct effect on discourse in this country.
01:34:55.000And I think it's one of the reasons why what you were talking about before, where you're either with us or you're against us, and it's never been more hard-line than it has been right now.
01:35:04.000And all of this is because of advertising money.
01:35:10.000You're just a portal to connect people with each other, and through that, you're gaining an insane amount of influence, and an extraordinary amount of money is being generated.
01:36:08.000And this is happening right under our noses, and it's happening so quickly.
01:36:12.000And then, when something like your Google situation happens, where it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, not only are you profiting, but now you're fucking pulling strings?
01:36:21.000You're showing us you're pulling strings?
01:36:49.000Not only a viable candidate, but one that's saying, hey, You guys are too fucking big.
01:36:54.000I'm going to break up these monopolies and provide the kinds of oversight and accountability that will protect the consumer, that will protect the American people, protect fair and honest discourse, protect freedom of speech.
01:37:09.000And frankly, that's the difference between me and somebody like Mayor Pete, for example.
01:37:16.000Other candidates, and he's not the only one, but other candidates who refuse to take a strong position in recognizing the threat to our public discourse and our democracy that these tech giants have really within the hands of just a few people.
01:37:35.000You have, I think this just broke in the news recently, Mark Zuckerberg who, you know, people were taught he's like wanted to run for president not that long ago and was seriously considering it and, you know, he's trying to start his own cryptocurrency,
01:37:51.000wants to have his own currency that he controls.
01:37:53.000Like the amount of power this guy has and that he wants to continue to grow is so dangerous.
01:37:58.000He decided not to run for president but he and his wife started emailing Mayor Pete's Never mind if he gets elected when he's got two people that are inside track at Facebook.
01:38:26.000I don't know if you've ever done anything with Facebook as far as advertising, but people that understand how all that stuff works, I've talked to them before.
01:39:32.000From a strategic perspective, all right, do you feel like these moves, like you coming out strong against Google, Facebook, saying that you could break up those types of monopolies, Strategically are you thinking right now?
01:39:45.000Well, maybe that wasn't the best call because You know you could have not been so strong against them and and played along with them a little bit Maybe they look at you and go through the list that that Joe went through earlier, which is you're a veteran You're a woman.
01:40:05.000Yeah, she's good We can get her on our side And then maybe, you know, increase your chances of getting elected, then you get elected, then you go, okay, you know what, I've thought about this, and guess what?
01:40:15.000We're not doing it that way, and I'm going to break you guys up.
01:40:17.000Do you think strategically, or is that just the type of person you are is like, you know what, I'm just going to tell the truth from the get-go?
01:40:25.000I'm going to tell the truth and call it straight, no matter what, and...
01:40:30.000No matter who I'm dealing with, because A, that's who I am, and B, people are sick and tired of politicians who play this game and do this political dance as they're trying to get people elected and be like, okay, well,
01:40:45.000if I just say this or if I just kind of cozy up to these people or these interests, they can help me get elected.
01:40:51.000And then when I win, then I'm going to do the right thing.
01:41:02.000I need more money from these guys, so I can't say anything to piss them off just yet.
01:41:06.000I'm going to wait until I get re-elected.
01:41:08.000Then that's when I'm really going to start to do the right thing.
01:41:10.000And I think people across party lines are sick and tired of the same old politicians who say one thing and do another and instead are looking for real leadership.
01:41:22.000It just seems like there's a tipping point that we'll have to reach before that actually happens.
01:41:49.000But when you talk about Tulsi having a podcast, which you absolutely should, and by the way, all you need to do is go and do a question and answer town hall with people, have somebody record it, splice it up to the good stuff, and put that out 20 minutes long, people start to learn how you are.
01:41:59.000Yes, but my point is that that change happened, and right now, Joe Rogan has the most powerful voice in media in a very short period of time, but Five years ago, he didn't.
01:42:13.000You know, five years ago, it'd be like, oh, you want to sell a book, you better go on the big network.
01:42:17.000Nowadays, oh, you want to sell a book, you try and get on Joe Rogan and he can peddle some book for you or get your product out there or help your campaign.
01:42:24.000We're like at that tipping point politically, it seems right now.
01:42:28.000And yeah, just what is it going to take to push people over the edge?
01:42:33.000What we saw happen in 2016, I think, pointed to that tipping point.
01:42:40.000And I believe that we are here because, you know, these are conversations that we're having in town hall meetings in different parts of the country.
01:42:50.000Again, we're building this coalition of Americans who are most interested in putting our country first, who are willing to disagree without being disagreeable, but understand we got to treat each other with respect and stand united around the principles and freedoms.
01:43:07.000That bring us together, focusing on we, the people, putting the interests of the people first and foremost.
01:43:15.000And I would say that the vast majority of Americans have put up with the same old, same old for so long and are sick and tired of this pay-to-play culture in Washington, of the political corruption that exists, of the big-money special interests who influence the decisions that leaders are making that benefit them instead of the people.
01:43:34.000That they're looking for a leader that says what they mean and mean what they say and who will back that up with action.
01:43:42.000I think that's where we're seeing support growing for my campaign.
01:43:48.000The more people hear about who I am, the background and experience that I bring to this job is And that I am willing to take a stand to speak the truth for the people, even against some of the most powerful interests.
01:44:03.000Honestly, our biggest challenge is getting in front of people, because most people in the country still don't know who I am.
01:44:09.000Or you have people who maybe have heard about me, but they've gotten the corporate media narrative.
01:44:36.000Literally getting this support will make the difference for us to be able to bypass this corporate media narrative and actually communicate directly to voters, directly to people.
01:44:49.000No one better than you knows that these tech companies have this extraordinary amount of power and that no one anticipated it.
01:44:57.000What do you think could be done to ensure that people have a voice and that this voice is not being manipulated because of financial interests or political interests?
01:45:07.000And this is where we're at today, that this...
01:45:09.000These companies, like it or not, they don't have to abide by the First Amendment.
01:45:31.000Radical feminists who don't believe that transgender women should be involved in women's issues and that they shouldn't be able to vote on women's issues.
01:45:38.000And she was in an argument on Twitter.
01:46:19.000You don't have the First Amendment protecting people from a legitimate opinion that's actually based on, you know, whether you like it or not, biological science.
01:46:29.000We're in a very strange time that a company, and I just use this as an example because you're talking about something where it's biologically clear that she's correct.
01:46:39.000Whether or not you socially think that people should be treated how they want to be treated and use the pronouns, I agree with that.
01:47:08.000And that's just one example of the thousands and thousands of examples of people that are removed from conversations based on their political leanings, their ideologies.
01:47:19.000And meanwhile, there's just unlimited hardcore pornography.
01:47:24.000On Twitter, which is perfectly okay, but we can't say that about whatever that situation is, which I don't really understand, but it sounds good.
01:49:23.000It threatens the kind of freedom of speech and discourse that I think we've celebrated in this country for so long, where this is the country, where you can stand up and say what you believe, no matter how...
01:49:35.000How terrible I may think it is or how strongly I may disagree with it, you know, people like us are willing to lay our life down for your right to do that.
01:49:45.000I think that's what is at risk here with this culture, this cancel culture that's having such a chilling effect where people are maybe afraid to say something that may be seen as controversial or offensive to some because they will get canceled.
01:49:59.000And in some cases, you've seen how people's, especially if you're a public figure, your whole career can be just like, Gone.
01:51:12.000So no, I completely disagree with her.
01:51:14.000And the response from her campaign spokesperson, no kidding.
01:51:20.000Tulsi Gabbard echoes Fox News talking points.
01:51:26.000Freedom of Fox News is saying, oh, well, what about freedom of speech?
01:51:30.000By the way, Richard Spencer loves her.
01:51:33.000But that's like, this is where we're at.
01:51:36.000Like just saying, hey, freedom of speech.
01:51:39.000Whether you're the President of the United States or you're the guy sweeping the floor in the White House, I will stand up and fight for your freedom of speech.
01:51:47.000I may disagree and I may disagree publicly and strongly, but we've got to draw the line here for freedom of speech and being able to have this dialogue and discourse where we can, and I think that we should debate strongly and maybe passionately about some of these issues,
01:52:06.000That's been the strength of our country.
01:52:08.000It'll be interesting, you know, from a free market perspective, if at some point somebody comes out with a social media platform that is really, truly free speech.
01:52:41.000I mean, and it's not the fault of the social media companies.
01:52:45.000The companies like Gab, they're committed to free speech, and what they're trying to do is just let it all work itself out and abide by the Constitution.
01:52:51.000Don't dox anybody, don't give up anybody's address, don't threaten anybody or do any harm, and just talk crazy and do it anonymously, and that's what a lot of people are doing.
01:53:00.000But it's very difficult for even the people that felt like they were deplatformed or their voice wasn't being able to be heard.
01:53:07.000They don't want to join in to this crazy shit because of 4chan and all those savages.
01:53:13.000They're just trying to post pictures of their dinner, right?
01:53:20.000Even posting pictures of your dinner, you do that on Instagram, and if it's a dead deer or something like that, you're at risk of getting your picture taken down.
01:53:30.000It's the amount of power that's being exhibited by these social media companies.
01:53:46.000We've talked about the freedom of speech, the control over information.
01:53:49.000I think part and parcel to that that we didn't really talk much about is how much of our private information these tech companies have and what they're doing with it, maybe without us even knowing about how that's helping to drive up their profits.
01:54:02.000I think it's both of those components you've got to be concerned about.
01:54:28.000I think that is the definition of a monopoly across platforms that many of us use because there isn't really a legitimate alternative option available to us.
01:54:40.000So I think that's the first thing in looking at breaking up these monopolies.
01:54:45.000I think Facebook's co-founder, Chris Hayes I think is his name, he wrote I think a very compelling argument against Facebook monopoly saying they have gotten way too powerful.
01:54:57.000They should not have been able to buy these other companies.
01:55:00.000And the second thing is Congress actually digging down and passing laws that provide actual oversight and a level of accountability To ensure that our freedom of speech and our freedom to access information is not impeded by these tech giants,
01:55:24.000whether it's for their own profits or to pursue their own political interests.
01:55:33.000There's people inside of Twitter that, like Jack Dorsey believes, at least according to what he's told me, that Twitter should be like a town hall where everyone should be able to have access.
01:55:44.000But he faces resistance to that inside the actual company that he's the CEO of.
01:55:49.000There's so many people that don't think that that's the way it should be, and they think that they have a political or a social obligation to limit certain voices because those voices radicalize young people.
01:56:01.000Like, what do you say to those people?
01:56:05.000I mean, without knowing examples of what they're citing, here's the thing, is what they may view as radicalizing young people because of the ideology that they as individuals may hold onto may be seen in the opposite way by people who hold a different political ideology.
01:56:24.000I think this is something that we're seeing happening offline as well.
01:56:29.000Whether it's in college campuses or in other places where both sides view the other side as indoctrinating young people or indoctrinating people with their ideology.
01:56:41.000Look at Fox News and MSNBC. They are both pushing opposing narratives on news happenings of the day or whatever's happening in Washington.
01:56:54.000You watch the exact same thing happen, you know, the killing of Baghdadi.
01:57:00.000You saw a very different bias in the news that was being presented by these stories.
01:58:37.000Because somebody that doesn't understand this, that's their first glimpse of this reality, and their glimpse of this reality is that this guy was an austere religious leader.
01:58:46.000What is the actual definition of austere?
01:58:49.000Let's pull that up, because I want to find out how hilarious this really is, because I think it's really hilarious.
01:58:57.000Which, by the way, as Jamie's doing that, Washington Post owned by, oh, here we go.
01:59:02.000Severe or strict in manner, attitude, or appearance, an austere man with a rigidly puritanical outlook.
01:59:30.000I mean, there's real monsters in this world.
01:59:32.000And when you add a bunch of words to a description of a real monster that make that person seem like they're a contributor to culture, it's just, and that's what it seems, religious scholar.
02:00:19.000But to someone like you, who's actually had to go over there and risk your life to fight guys like that, how sick does that make you to just read that?
02:00:46.000There's someone that has a position of influence in the world that wrote that headline and said, yeah, this guy's an austere religious leader, scholar.
02:01:03.000Who's online, but he attacked that so viciously and talked about what a piece of garbage that guy actually was, and how awful he is, and how this goes against everything that a modern Muslim feels and thinks, and that this,
02:01:18.000have this person represent, and to say, a religious scholar is so deeply offensive.
02:02:05.000We don't have what we thought of as a top-level newspaper from 1980 or whatever, where they were doing real journalism, trying to break down a story in a way that you could understand why you're drinking your coffee.
02:02:29.000But what my dad was telling me that in the 60s and the 70s, there was one unifying thing that everybody did, which is watch Walter Cronkite on the news.
02:02:38.000And so when you showed up to work the next day, everyone had heard the same narrative.
02:02:43.000And they could have disagreed on it, but they all had kind of the same basic fundamental facts.
02:02:50.000Actually have people going home and I'm gonna jump into my bubble over here and watch Fox News and you're gonna get jumped in your bubble over there and watch MSNBC and Like how do you even communicate with each other?
02:03:03.000Yeah, yeah, we don't we have so many choices, but so few paths I was what I was I was I caught some Rachel Maddow one time and I'd never watched her before So I was like, okay, I'm gonna watch her and I was like wow Just completely different, completely different than what I would see on Fox News.
02:03:51.000It's like there's an understanding when you're going there.
02:03:54.000You're either going to hate view, like you're either a Republican who's going there to see what these silly liberals are up to, or you're one of the converted, and she's preaching to the choir.
02:04:03.000I think one interesting proof point of this is I think a poll came out yesterday on where the American people stand on impeachment and something like 75-80% of Fox viewers oppose impeachment and 75-80% of MSNBC viewers support impeachment.
02:04:25.000And they're covering the very same impeachment inquiry and hearings and witness testimony and all of that.
02:04:31.000I don't think people even understand what that all means and whether or not it even has a chance of happening.
02:06:05.000I mean, it's that, but then you've got some folks who, some Democrat leaders in Washington who are saying, well, you know, we need to get rid of Trump through impeachment to protect ourselves from possibly losing the election in 2020. Right.
02:06:20.000Which I think is just like an open admittal of, well, we don't think that we can actually beat him at the ballot box, so we're trying to use this political maneuver in order to get rid of him, even though it's highly unlikely that even if the House does vote to impeach Which isn't fully clear at this point,
02:06:40.000but even if that were to happen, the Senate is not going to convince 20, it's highly unlikely the Senate's going to convince 20 Republicans to vote with every Democrat to actually physically kick Trump out.
02:06:56.000And this is why, I mean, I've always maintained that, you know, look, I look forward to beating Donald Trump at the ballot box where the American people can unequivocally let their voices be heard saying, nope, we're done with the leadership and all that Trump brought to office and we're choosing to go in a new direction.
02:07:15.000Have you thought about what kind of nickname he'll have for you?
02:07:18.000Because you know he's going to come up with a nickname.
02:07:20.000Did you see how they played you on Saturday Night Live?
02:08:40.000Yeah, especially because Donald Trump has energy, and he goes on stage for an hour and a half at a rally with no teleprompter, no drink, no bathroom break.
02:09:32.000That's literally what they're afraid of.
02:09:33.000If you wanted to show what jiu-jitsu could do, everyone on earth that knew jiu-jitsu knew Hickson Gracie was the baddest man on the planet.
02:10:13.000I think what's proving to be true is more about who is the establishment candidate versus who is anti-establishment.
02:10:26.000I don't fit into any one of those boxes because I look at every issue based on its merits.
02:10:33.000I'll look at the substance of the issue, look at the arguments for and against, and go with the approach that I think This is a radical idea right here.
02:11:05.000But the vast majority of Americans, again, they're looking at what is real leadership.
02:11:10.000Real leadership, whether you're talking about the guy who's working in the manufacturing warehouse or you're talking about a blue-collar worker, you're looking at, okay, here's the issues that keep most people up at night.
02:11:21.000You want to make sure that if your kid is sick, they're going to be able to get the health care they need.
02:11:25.000You want to make sure you have a roof over your family's head.
02:11:31.000Approaching them in a way that is pragmatical, pragmatic, common sense, and solutions-oriented.
02:11:41.000Is not only the right thing to do, I think it's the thing that makes it so you don't have to say, well in the primary I'm only going to talk to Democrats and the most radical and extreme among them, and then I'm totally going to flip the script and then speak to the whole country after I win the primary election.
02:11:59.000This is why, you know, I'll go on Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, and I'm delivering the exact same message to people.
02:12:07.000And we're building and growing support in people who watch those three different channels, who are actually listening like, hey, she makes sense.
02:12:17.000She's not spouting some party talking point.
02:12:19.000She's not going down a radical path just to appeal to the Twitter wins that are blowing one way or the other.
02:12:26.000It's just about, hey, let's do what's best.
02:12:29.000Let's do what's best for the people and for the country.
02:12:31.000I'm stunned by the blowback, too, for you going on Fox News, that people are actually upset, that they do not think that you should grace the Fox News screens, that you're doing a disservice to your party.
02:13:11.000Most of what I talk about is about leadership.
02:13:13.000It's like, oh, because what we're doing as human beings is we're leading other people, whether it's just your family or whether it's your business or whatever, or it's troops out in the field.
02:13:21.000So yeah, it's weird that you would get...
02:13:25.000Attacked for going on Fox News when actually anybody that looks at that from a strategic view would think, oh, she's actually accepted by this right-wing news organization.
02:13:38.000Maybe she could get some other, you know, moderate conservative votes.
02:13:42.000Maybe we should think about bringing her as a candidate because she could win.
02:13:46.000Well, not only that, what's wrong with going on stage or going on camera with someone that you oppose?
02:13:52.000Someone you disagree with and having a dialogue about what you disagree with.
02:14:04.000I saw people criticizing you for being on Tucker Carlson's show in particular.
02:14:08.000Yeah, and that's what I was going to say.
02:14:10.000Yeah, it's one thing to say, okay, you're going to go on Fox News and tussle with Sean Hannity about things you disagree on, but I think what they see as more dangerous is finding areas where you actually do agree.
02:14:22.000And that's, you know, on Tucker Carlson.
02:14:25.000I have a platform to be able to speak to millions of people across the country about the kind of leadership that I bring in the area of foreign policy, what I would do here in this country, what I would do there in that country if I were president today.
02:14:40.000And I have the opportunity to deliver that message directly to people's living rooms or offices or wherever they are.
02:14:46.000And, you know, I think in some of these areas, Tucker and I will disagree on a whole host of things, but on some of these issues of foreign policy, he'll say, yeah, I agree with you.
02:14:56.000And I think when you look at this cancel culture, you know, I was attacked on the debate stage for going on Fox News.
02:15:04.000How do you think you're going to lead this country?
02:15:08.000All Americans, if you're completely not only shutting out and not willing to talk to half the country that watches Fox News, but you're in fact disrespecting and dismissing them just because they may disagree with you or they watch a different news channel than you do.
02:15:27.000I think that's the bigger issue here is, yeah, you know, there's a political consequence.
02:15:30.000You're never going to be able to have a dialogue with What to speak of win support from people who you treat like garbage, who you disrespect, who you call names, who you call deplorables.
02:15:43.000But how do you expect to lead as the president of every single American in this country when you've thrown half of them away and saying, you know what, I actually don't care about you.
02:15:54.000I only care about people who I agree with.
02:15:55.000That's to me the worst part about all of this.
02:16:04.000And then you also remember when Mitt Romney said, hey, there's 47% of the country that there's no way of voting for him, so we just need to forget about him.
02:16:11.000Those two things completely divided and sent people to vote for the opposing candidate.
02:16:18.000Like, you're going to call me deplorable?
02:16:24.000I think also it speaks to what both people have that is distasteful, that they're calculated.
02:16:30.000And one of the things that I do appreciate about you is that I think you're not.
02:16:34.000I think the way you view things is you would far rather speak your mind and be truthful and have real legitimate opinions on things rather than have some weird, slimy, sort of shifty take that's been created by a bunch of people that think that this is going to be the right thing that you could say,
02:16:55.000that's going to, you know, And get you a little closer in the polls and move you this way and move the needle that way.
02:17:02.000That shifty style of politics I really feel is dead.
02:17:07.000I just don't think you can do it that way anymore.
02:17:10.000I think people, because of the open access to information that people have today and the way that people can communicate and find out information, I just don't think we want to buy that shifty politician talk anymore.
02:17:55.000You're following whether it's polls or you're following these groups that are going out and trying to figure out which way the tide is turning on social media.
02:18:08.000I mean, there's so many groups now and so many companies that are just...
02:18:12.000Just looking at data online and opinions and then they give this data to people that are trying to influence folks and they lean one way or another and they try to manipulate their message in order to have a more favorable rating.
02:19:11.000He really should give a class on not giving a fuck and how it affects you personally.
02:19:17.000He's got a master's degree in that, without a doubt.
02:19:19.000You could say you don't give a fuck, but that's when the whole world is angry at you.
02:19:24.000Like half the world, maybe more than half the world, because it's half of America, and then who knows what percentage of the rest of the world is upset at you.
02:19:30.000Not a lot of supporters internationally.
02:20:28.000How can one person really have that job?
02:20:33.000So the first thing I'll say is that if you're going into this to be popular or to have everybody love you, then you should not be president at all.
02:20:46.000That's why I'm never going to be president.
02:20:56.000So I think that's the most important thing, and that's the problem that we see in a lot of our politics.
02:21:01.000And what we're seeing on Twitter is people are putting stuff out for what they think will get the most likes or will get the most retweets rather than putting out what they believe in or what's true or what's actually really, really important.
02:21:14.000So I think that's the first thing about how I would govern and lead as president about continuing what I've always done, which is actually just focusing on, hey, let's do the best job we can do to deliver the best result for the American people.
02:21:27.000None of us are perfect and won't always get it perfectly right all the time.
02:21:34.000I think understanding that we have often forgotten these days, we have three co-equal branches of government.
02:21:42.000So the president alone in the executive branch does not have absolute or ultimate power over our government or over making decisions that impact the lives of Americans across this country.
02:21:58.000I think our founders set up our government with this in mind, that we left the monarchy for a reason, so that we don't have one person with absolute power, but instead we have a president, a commander-in-chief who is leading our country.
02:22:14.000Working with the United States Congress, the House and the Senate, which is made up of people who are elected from their communities and from their states to be able to form and shape the policies that do impact the lives of people in this country.
02:22:30.000So that these decisions are not being made within a vacuum by one single individual, but instead by a representative form of government with the judiciary branches, the check and balance to say, hey, this one does not fall in line with the Constitution of the United States.
02:22:46.000We're going to throw that one out, making sure that these elected leaders are doing the right thing for the people.
02:22:53.000So I think the opportunity that's here and I think what's necessary is having a president who leads with the best interests of the people in mind, takes seriously the principles enshrined within our constitution, does not abuse that executive power,
02:23:09.000which is something that we've seen growing in one consecutive administration after another, crossing both party lines.
02:23:16.000But instead, really take seriously that oath that we all take, that we took as a member of Congress, that we took in the military, that the President takes to uphold and defend our Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
02:23:32.000Yeah, and I think, you know, Tulsi's a military person as well, and when you go and you do the best you can, and you make the decisions for the right reasons, which aren't necessarily going to turn out right, sometimes you make decisions and they don't turn out okay,
02:23:48.000but you had the right intentions, you tried to do the right thing, it didn't go the way you wanted it to, you don't point your fingers or blame anybody else, you say, okay, here's the mistake I made, here's what we're going to do to fix it, And at the end of the day, you can walk away and say, okay, well, I know that I did the best I could with the right intentions.
02:24:05.000And generally, just like you were talking about people being able to see through when someone's lying behind stage, people see, you know what?
02:24:13.000They had the right intentions in mind.
02:24:15.000And I think you actually could walk away...
02:24:18.000From the job, not saying I did a great job, nailed it, as Joe Rogan would say, but to walk away with your head held high and be able to say, yeah, I did the best I could do.
02:26:01.000Well, again, it just shows you how people are so committed to the machine.
02:26:07.000And you're one of the best examples of that, I think, because there's so much exciting about what you're saying.
02:26:13.000There's so much that resonates as being honest and straightforward and well thought out and nuanced and balanced, and yet still so much resistance.
02:26:21.000But I think the machine is strong and the machine knows that it doesn't really have a grip on you.
02:26:29.000And I think that's, you mentioned earlier, I think that's creating fear and concern.
02:26:37.000I just think it's important to point out the difference when we talk about the people who are concerned about this.
02:26:44.000It is the people whose power is built off of, you know, they've built this foundation of power based on the status quo, based on continuing this narrative that benefits the very few The most rich, the most powerful, the people who can purchase this influence in Washington,
02:27:00.000as opposed to the vast majority of people in this country, unfortunately, whose voices are not being heard in Washington, whose concerns are not being met, by and large.
02:27:13.000And who exist outside of this bubble of corruption within Washington and who are looking for a leader who's going to hear their voices and amplify them and serve their interests.
02:27:24.000And I think that's where, again, we've got great opportunity and responsibility to reach those people all across this country.
02:27:35.000And let them know who I am and to hear my message so they know that there is a choice, that they do have a choice between more of the same old, same old, more of the pay-to-play corruption that exists in Washington, more of the perpetuation of the same foreign policy of Of interventionism,
02:27:53.000regime change that's failed us and cost us so much versus fresh leadership with a new approach that puts the interests of our country and peace and security at the forefront of the decisions that are being made.
02:28:09.000I think this is an interesting time, too, because it's one of the first times that I can remember where politicians that are running for president are pushing back against the media machine.
02:28:19.000Like Andrew Yang recently said, I'm not going to go on MSNBC unless they apologize publicly for a lack of representation.
02:28:28.000I mean, they didn't give him a chance to talk.
02:28:31.000Meanwhile, there's a giant well of support behind him as well.
02:28:35.000People are seeing through the facade that is presented by the corporate media.
02:28:45.000And I think finding the power in our voices through alternative media, new media, social media, and I think that's what we're seeing with people.
02:28:55.000Hey, they're giving my campaign $5 or $10 a month.
02:28:59.000There's so much power that I think people are discovering within their own voices that really is the only thing that can overcome the obstacles that the political and media establishment are placing before us and before the people in having their voices heard.
02:29:26.000I think when you look at some of these polls, I think that's the other thing is they most often represent who is most well-known in the country, who's most famous, rather than who actually has the most support.
02:29:38.000And Elizabeth Warren, wasn't she a Republican for a long time?
02:31:11.000And then the second thing is, I think, require a certain number of polls, and I think I need one more poll to meet that requirement, which is, again, is directly linked.
02:31:20.000You look at a guy like, I think, Pete Buttigieg.
02:31:24.000$9 million on social media ads in order to get like a 4% bump in the polls.
02:31:31.000You look at what some of these other guys have spent, some of the billionaires, I think Steyer spent $37 million in order to qualify in the polls, on the debate.
02:31:40.000And so our challenge is we just need to get out and get in front of people in order to make sure that we're bypassing the corporate media and we're actually talking directly to folks at home.
02:31:51.000Is there a real possibility that sometime in our lifetime they can take money out of politics like that?
02:32:00.000The more people learn about how completely lopsided our campaign finance system is I think?
02:32:35.000Yeah, I mean, look, the second thing is that you're seeing how corrupting that influence is on the politicians and the influence that they have over people, and how much it's disproportionately helping strengthen the power of a two-party system.
02:33:17.000The party has a hell of a lot of power that they can leverage over individual members of Congress, elected leaders, to say, if you don't play ball, if you don't vote the way we want you to vote, we're not going to be there to help you out in your election.
02:33:30.000We're not going to run TV ads for you.
02:33:32.000We're not going to help you out when you're getting attacked by the other guy, which just makes the problem that we already have worse, where instead of leaders voting based on what they believe is right— For their constituents or right for the country or based on their conscience,
02:33:48.000instead they're being goaded into voting for the interests of the political party, putting party ahead of the interests of the country.
02:33:55.000And so I think the more people are learning about the consequence of our existing campaign finance system, the more they're demanding change and reform so that we are electing leaders who are accountable only to the people.
02:34:11.000Have you ever had a conversation with someone where they have tried to influence your vote in one way or another that you just described?
02:34:18.000I have met with lobbyists who will say, hey, here's why I want you to vote this way, and by the way, we'll be there at your next fundraising dinner or something like that.
02:34:51.000When I said no PAC money, no lobbyist money, automatically they're like, well, obviously we can't talk to her if we're not giving her money.
02:35:01.000And then I haven't seen it, you know, I established very quickly in Congress that I don't play political games and that I'm not going to be bullied into taking anybody else's position if I don't think it's the right one to take.
02:35:12.000So I have not experienced that kind of, like the party has never helped me in any of my elections, ever.
02:35:20.000For city council, for state legislature, for Congress.
02:35:23.000So them coming in and saying, well, we're not going to be like, dude, you were never there for me ever anyway.
02:35:27.000But I've seen it happen with some of my friends who maybe represent swing districts or who are Democrats who got elected in a Republican district.
02:35:35.000They're always going to have a really tough race.
02:35:38.000I have seen it happen in real time where those bully tactics come into play.